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Welcome, 
welcome to the first episode of 

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dead cat. 
I'm Eric, newcomer the writer 

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and author of newcomer. 
The newsletter here, with Tom 

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Dayton and Katie Benner, who 
will introduce themselves as 

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we've got a very special guest, 
Parker, Conrad, Katie Tom, and I

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have been friends for years. 
And I've had this long-running 

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sort of message thread, signal 
thread, where we've chatted 

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about the media and Tech and 
sort of gossiped about sort of, 

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you know, the meta story of 
what's happening in Tech, sort 

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of reading the stories, in 
another light. 

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And so we sort of wanted to try 
out a podcast where we You know,

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talked about tech in the 
coverage of tech from a totally 

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different lens in this in this 
world, you know, where, you 

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know, technology companies are 
more ascendant than ever before.

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Anyway, so that I mean, that's, 
that's the very quick 

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introduction. 
I think we should just get into 

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it. 
Tom, you want to say hello? 

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Sure. 
Hey, I thought you give a very 

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sanitized version of what. 
Okay, now we're at was I thought

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it was where we were giving our 
marching orders to the 

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mainstream media in which they 
would discuss. 

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Exactly. 
What we wanted them to and to 

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pick these tech companies in the
specifically - and detrimental 

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light that we all intend these 
companies to be viewed. 

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So I actually thought there was 
a lot more power imbued into 

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that chat room, but I guess it 
was just a place for us to push 

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it. 
I misunderstood the point of 

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this thread. 
My name is Tom as Eric said, I 

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am a reporter at Insider. 
I'm supposed to call it that. 

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Now, not Business Insider, where
I cover, the gig economy, Uber 

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Lyft, doordash instacart go. 
Huff frequently. 

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So that's my, that's my beat 
there. 

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But yeah, a newcomer and Katie 
and I used to work together at 

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the information, way back in the
day. 

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And I think, actually, all of us
at some point covered Uber, 

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right? 
Briefly and Eric, you make Isaac

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me and another Uber reporter, 
all at my house, one night in 

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San Francisco, and Reuters 
broken, Uber story, and none of 

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us were able to match it. 
We were definitely all covering 

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Uber At the die. 
Yes. 

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You can see very Insider regroup
but yeah. 

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Anyway, that's that's that's my 
background here. 

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And I used to write about media.
So I'm the, I'm the media guy on

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this show. 
Yes, I'm covering the justice 

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department for the New York 
Times. 

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I really just kind of a special 
guest here but it's really fun 

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to think about tech again 
because I will say as a beat it 

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is more fun in many ways than 
covering the justice department.

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Cool. 
And yeah, I'll introduce par 

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girl. 
But I mean, Parker Conrad, you 

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know, we got to know him or I've
known him for a long time as the

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CEO of zenefits covered sort of 
the rise of that company. 

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I would have businessweek 
feature on it when it was new 

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and exciting. 
And then, you know, Parker got 

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pushed out. 
It was a huge headline story, 

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and I wrote about that and I'm 
sure we'll be talking about the 

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zenefits story, which is given 
Parker is super interesting 

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perspective on the media. 
I mean I also love that Parker 

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is someone who, you know, Did 
his college newspaper. 

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So he sort of got the media 
there and then, you know, has, 

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he's very mixed views about 
what's great about Silicon 

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Valley and not that sort of, I 
don't know. 

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Both both are somewhat in line 
with the rah-rah story and sort 

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of super critical of it. 
So I am very excited to hear 

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what what Parker has say Parker.
I mean, what inspired you to 

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walk into this death trap of 
three Reporters on our first 

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podcast. 
The gosh. 

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I don't know. 
I guess you know you're making 

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me nervous here. 
Eric, why did I make a mistake 

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here? 
What is it too, late? 

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I mean I think that I guess I 
think that there are, you know, 

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I think I you and I have spoken 
before about sort of my view of 

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sort of the media VC complex in 
in Silicon Valley and kind of 

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how that impacts the narrative 
and coverage and sort of the 

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things that the things, some of 
the things that I sort of 

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dislike about that. 
And so I think there are 

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relatively few people That are 
willing to give an alternate 

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perspective, that I think is 
government, so that's some of 

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it. 
And then obviously like like a 

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like a lot of people who sort of
love and hate and need the 

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media. 
You know, I've got a company to 

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pitch and and and so there's 
there's always that that angle 

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so. 
Okay. 

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Give us give us the what is the 
tech VC symbiosis. 

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We all have our own ideas but 
you know how would you 

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articulate it? 
I think that reporters that are 

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covering Tech are looking for 
like repeated players or voices 

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of authority that they can speak
to about the industry and 

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frequently they don't know 
startup. 

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Founders startup Founders. 
Maybe it's hard to identify 

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which ones which companies are 
important and who you should be 

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speaking with. 
And It's very easy to sort of 

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say, oh well, you know, I'll 
talk to Andreessen Horowitz or, 

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you know, some brand-name, VC 
firm. 

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And so, those end up being for 
reasons that. 

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Don't I think make a lot of 
sense, the sort of voices of 

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authority about the industry. 
And it's sort of strange in a 

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way if you looked at more 
traditional businesses, you 

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know, if you're writing about 
the oil and gas industry, would 

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you talk to the banks that are 
sort of lending the money for 

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Capital purchases? 
And like those are the people 

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that you would sort of like 
would be the authorities on the 

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the oil and gas like no that 
wouldn't that would that would 

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be weird. 
You know it's it's it's sort of 

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unusual. 
Like if you thought of you see 

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is as You know, almost more 
like, like sort of banks, you 

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know, that were lending money to
businesses. 

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You know, you wouldn't, you 
wouldn't sort of immediately 

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think. 
Like those are, those are the 

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people that were going to put at
the center of the ecosystem. 

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But, but that is the way often 
media about tech works and and, 

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and investors need that. 
Because in practice, when you 

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look at a lot of these early 
stage deals, I think one thing 

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that sometimes people Don't from
the outside, don't understand. 

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Is it's often just like 
incredibly obvious to everyone 

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on the ground like which that 
there is a company here that you

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know, it's not guaranteed but 
this company has a very decent 

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chance very early on of having 
an enormously successful outcome

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and it's obvious to a lot of 
people there. 

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And so there are tons of 
investors that would you know 

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love to put money into that 
company and in practice the 

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founder, you know, just the Of 
their time, you know these 

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rounds come together and you 
know 10 days they can maybe meet

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with five or six firms. 
And so who do they end up 

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meeting with? 
Well the end up meeting with the

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person that they saw, you know, 
on the front page of the 

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business section in the New York
Times or, you know, in the Wall 

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Street Journal or that was, you 
know, maybe covered recently by 

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Eric's blog because that's sort 
of who they've heard of. 

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And, and so from a Aziz 
perspective that media attention

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is oxygen. 
You know, it's sort of the 

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closest analogy I can think of 
is, it's like it's like 

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celebrities, you know how they 
like, that's what what they need

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because it's the it's the only 
thing that's truly 

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differentiating for them. 
And it's really how. 

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I mean you've seen that with 
some firms like Andreessen 

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Horowitz that really have built 
their brand, purely on the back 

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of that media exposure. 
Or almost entirely on the back 

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of that media, exposure to such 
an extent that I think the right

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way to think about that firm is 
it's not really a VC firm. 

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It's a it's a PR agency that has
a very specific monetization 

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strategy of investing in startup
startup companies. 

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And like, in that vein, it's not
surprising that they've now 

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decided to like create their own
content arm and all that kind of

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stuff. 
Because like, they always were 

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sort of a media company. 
First, and foremost. 

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Yeah, putting and reason aside, 
because I think, They are such a

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specific example and you're, you
know, you have a history with 

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Andreessen, which might be 
interesting to talk about later.

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But in this formula, the media, 
the reporters are kind of 

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unquestioning in their 
willingness to feature venture 

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capitalist. 
You know, why is it? 

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Do you think that reporters 
aren't scrutinizing? 

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The Venture Capital firms in the
way they might be scrutinizing? 

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The startups themselves, you 
know, I don't, I don't know, I 

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guess I would sort of ask maybe 
ask you guys that. 

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I mean, sometimes. 
Times. 

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Sometimes, it seems to me that 
reporters are looking for 

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authority figures, you know, 
they're looking for it, you 

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know, they're looking for an 
authority figure and then like 

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sort of the looking for Daddy's,
parental figures. 

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I agree with partner and the 
reality of how these companies 

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are run. 
But from the outside, you look 

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at it and you're like, oh well, 
you have, you know, these people

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are board members, you know, 
they write the CEOs like you. 

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No sort of that's their boss. 
You know, that's not and that's 

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that's not the reality of the 
situation but I think it's it's 

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sort of, you know, like in other
beats you know if you're if 

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you're talking about something 
that happened at the justice 

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department, you ultimately want 
to speak with like Merrick 

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Garland or like, you know, like 
his his spokesperson right. 

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You know. 
And so like you're looking for 

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like who's the person at the top
and I think that reporters have 

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sort of conclude And perhaps in 
accurately that that those 

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people are the investors and it 
perturbs. 

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And distorts a lot of the things
about the ecosystem that there's

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that perception, that's why you 
see all these people like 

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marching out of business school 
and they all want to become 

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Venture capitalists, you know. 
Because like, you know, that's 

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sort of where the perception of 
kind of, you know, where where 

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the where the power is and you 
know where the sort of the power

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behind the throne or whatever, 
whatever you would call it. 

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It's okay, it's cute. 
I mean, please say no, if you 

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don't want to but would it not 
be instructive then to look at 

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zenefits through this lens? 
And I don't think we introduce 

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benefits and I think we said 
what it was, but it was the 

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company that you started that 
was enormously successful 

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specifically in Silicon Valley 
terms, meaning, the valuation 

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grew and grew and grew meeting 
investors were is an HR like an 

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HR portal. 
So we're basically trying to buy

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more stock essentially in your 
company ever, higher prices and 

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your company helped, you know, 
other corporations. 

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On board employees and take care
of HR functions through you, 

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through easy-to-use, software 
was a great idea. 

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And from the media's point of 
view, we saw this stratospheric 

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rise of your company and that 
attention was sort of built by 

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the valuations, which are 
granted by the VCS, which then 

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make them a huge part of the 
story because the main data 

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point, And maybe this is flawed,
but the main data point 

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especially at the time, 
reporters used to decide which 

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company mattered, was, was the 
valuation, especially at that 

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period and Rocket fueled by 
Andreessen, which was probably 

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at. 
It's like at then, you know, 

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philosophical voice of the 
Silicon Valley mouthpiece Peak, 

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right? 
That look like from your point 

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of view, as you were watching 
the attention turned to your 

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company in large part, because 
of this, both VC, fueled 

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valuation and BC fueled, you 
know, conversation with the 

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Press, Yes, so what did that 
look like inside to you? 

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Yeah, I mean so you know, there 
are some things that I can talk 

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about about zenefits and there's
some things that I just can't 

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and so I probably can't go as 
deep in this conversation as I'd

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like to at some point in time I 
it's definitely true. 

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I mean you say that sort of like
the Press was fueled by the 

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valuation which was in turn 
fueled by like sometimes the 

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Press was field directly by the 
VCS themselves. 

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Like I remember At one point, 
you know, Kim listen Vic from 

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Andreessen Horowitz, coming to 
me and saying, hey, we have, you

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know, a reporter from The New 
York Times, who wants to 

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profile, a Silicon Valley 
company and asked us like, which

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company should he do? 
And we told him the company 

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that, you know, that he should 
do is then if it's and the clear

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implication is like, you know, 
we sort of instructed like the 

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media You know, which company to
cover and now they're going to 

225
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cover York. 
I mean, it was very like, at 

226
00:13:36,900 --> 00:13:37,900
least in the way that they are 
now. 

227
00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:41,200
I don't know what it was like 
from the reporter's perspective,

228
00:13:41,200 --> 00:13:43,600
but in terms of how they 
described it to me, it was like 

229
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:47,400
we are telling them to cover 
your company and that, you know,

230
00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:49,900
became a think. 
This is just became a story that

231
00:13:49,900 --> 00:13:52,200
Farhad Farhad wrote for the New 
York Times. 

232
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:58,500
And so there were definite, at 
least from my perspective, it 

233
00:13:58,500 --> 00:14:01,900
was like, wow. 
No, these, these guys are You 

234
00:14:01,900 --> 00:14:07,800
know, they exercised a fair 
amount of direct control over 

235
00:14:08,000 --> 00:14:10,500
sort of the media narrative and,
you know, and Eric, you and I 

236
00:14:10,508 --> 00:14:16,300
have talked about, you know, 
just the dinners that, you know,

237
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:20,000
Margot would have for reporters,
you know, at her house right? 

238
00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:21,400
Met you. 
That's right. 

239
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,700
I remember, you know, it was 
incredible to see, you know, 

240
00:14:26,700 --> 00:14:31,600
everyone, just the extent to 
which like invites to Those 

241
00:14:31,600 --> 00:14:34,700
dinners were important, you 
know, like there's an ecosystem 

242
00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:41,400
there between VCS and, and the, 
the tech media that I think puts

243
00:14:41,400 --> 00:14:47,800
the VC firms at the center of 
these stories in it, in ways 

244
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:53,300
that are sort of sometimes, Miss
sort of other other Dynamics. 

245
00:14:53,400 --> 00:14:55,600
Those dinners are extremely 
canny the way that they're 

246
00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:57,200
handled. 
Because first of all reporters 

247
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,800
want to be invited to them. 
Because it shows that, I mean, 

248
00:14:59,800 --> 00:15:02,900
if you're at a big publication, 
you kind of Default get invited 

249
00:15:02,900 --> 00:15:05,500
to it and you know the 
information it was always an 

250
00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:07,700
issue at first because for 
certain places we didn't 

251
00:15:07,700 --> 00:15:10,100
register but reporters are 
always kind of, you know, 

252
00:15:10,100 --> 00:15:13,300
screwing around there. 
Like rats trying to like make 

253
00:15:13,300 --> 00:15:19,300
connections with entrepreneurs 
like you or for VCS thinking 

254
00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,200
about like this is, you know I 
like much more. 

255
00:15:22,200 --> 00:15:26,900
Yeah more than PCS. 
I mean as a reporter is still 

256
00:15:26,900 --> 00:15:29,900
deep in this bead who's really 
set up a publication around the 

257
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:33,000
VCS I think for some of The 
reasons we're talking about. 

258
00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,000
I do think there's a there's a 
reality that like the VCS are 

259
00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,000
just more scalable sources, you 
know. 

260
00:15:39,000 --> 00:15:44,100
They, they know the facts that I
want like a great scale. 

261
00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:45,900
Where is the founder? 
Maybe knows a lot about their 

262
00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:47,600
company. 
Nobody wants to leak stuff about

263
00:15:47,600 --> 00:15:50,100
their own company, well. 
So one question is like, how 

264
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:54,000
does this play out in terms of 
the type of the, the way that 

265
00:15:54,100 --> 00:15:58,500
sort of, you know, coverage, you
know, happens for tech. 

266
00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:03,000
And, and one way that happens is
that often A set of things that 

267
00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:07,700
a lot of VCS will agree on that 
ends up getting sort of 

268
00:16:07,700 --> 00:16:12,100
repeated, without a lot of 
questioning. 

269
00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:15,000
You have an example. 
One example would be that. 

270
00:16:16,500 --> 00:16:20,700
We pay too much for startups to 
invest in them and we would 

271
00:16:20,700 --> 00:16:22,800
prefer to pay less for startups 
to invest in. 

272
00:16:23,400 --> 00:16:26,500
Yeah, but also to your point 
that sentiment belies the fact 

273
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:29,400
that the one of the reasons VCS 
are paying so much isn't just 

274
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:32,600
because the prices are too high.
It's because they're taking in 

275
00:16:32,600 --> 00:16:35,700
too much capital in a world 
where other institutional, 

276
00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:37,300
investors are trying to get a 
return. 

277
00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:39,000
Sure. 
But you know you look at for a 

278
00:16:39,008 --> 00:16:43,300
long time you know, Bill girly 
was out there talking about how 

279
00:16:43,300 --> 00:16:47,000
all these startups were valued 
and everyone like the media 

280
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,400
loved him for it you know it was
it rests here was an Insider 

281
00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:56,200
sort of like speaking truth to 
you know his own and everyone 

282
00:16:56,200 --> 00:16:59,400
viewed it as heroic and no one 
was sort of saying like maybe 

283
00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,300
it's this maybe a little bit 
self-serving. 

284
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:06,500
You know, like why will girlies 
who I, you know, I like it. 

285
00:17:06,508 --> 00:17:09,800
I've profiled is expert at 
saying one thing and doing 

286
00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,599
another, you know, are writing 
blog posts that sort of 

287
00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:15,700
implicitly indict, Uber or we 
work. 

288
00:17:15,800 --> 00:17:19,000
Well, you know, to sort of hedge
against, you know, his firm's 

289
00:17:19,000 --> 00:17:21,900
own actual Behavior, Nasser. 
And and of course, I think like 

290
00:17:21,900 --> 00:17:24,800
and I look, I've never met Bill 
girly, but it strikes me that 

291
00:17:24,800 --> 00:17:27,800
bill girly was a big fan of 
valuations, being lower for 

292
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:32,400
early-stage startups and and has
always been a big fan Fan of the

293
00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:35,200
idea that public markets 
investors are paying too little 

294
00:17:35,200 --> 00:17:39,800
for these companies when they 
IPO, which, you know, maybe 

295
00:17:39,800 --> 00:17:42,100
those two things conflict with 
each other, maybe they don't. 

296
00:17:42,500 --> 00:17:46,500
Are you able to talk about how 
this sort of like interplay 

297
00:17:46,500 --> 00:17:49,900
between valuations and venture 
capitalist in the media? 

298
00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:52,800
You know from your point of 
view, whatever it is. 

299
00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:58,200
You can say how that look to you
as an if it's hit a road bump 

300
00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:03,800
And some of, yes, I will say 
that. 

301
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,700
The thing that I remember most 
about benefits as well. 

302
00:18:05,700 --> 00:18:08,400
Frankly, our story about people 
having sex in the stairwells or 

303
00:18:08,400 --> 00:18:11,200
something. 
It was it was condoms in the 

304
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:26,900
stairwell. 
Hey, we found, you know, a 

305
00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:30,000
condom in the stairwell of this 
Building and that's completely 

306
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,700
unacceptable. 
And the office manager of our 

307
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:37,800
company, sent an email out to 
everyone at the company saying, 

308
00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:46,400
this is completely unacceptable 
and look there were 30 35 other 

309
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:50,600
companies in that building, it's
not even clear that it was 

310
00:18:50,600 --> 00:18:54,500
someone at zenefits. 
But that story got, you know, we

311
00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:57,300
were the ones that sent out that
email and that's the email that 

312
00:18:57,300 --> 00:19:01,500
they got a hold of and that 
story got written and Rewritten 

313
00:19:01,500 --> 00:19:06,400
and Rewritten in a way that, and
okay. 

314
00:19:06,400 --> 00:19:10,000
Yeah, by my senses, the zenefits
thing was it was, I mean, it was

315
00:19:10,000 --> 00:19:12,900
really a feeding frenzy as far 
as reporters were concerned. 

316
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:15,800
I mean, they were reporters. 
I think actually every ykd Eric 

317
00:19:15,800 --> 00:19:19,800
and I all at some point, did 
some sort of zenefits Insider 

318
00:19:19,800 --> 00:19:22,800
ep's, maybe not like a feature 
at the same level as you. 

319
00:19:22,900 --> 00:19:27,300
No Eric maybe did or will Alden 
no longer a reporter but he kind

320
00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,800
of, you know, wrote probably the
most intensive pieces on it. 

321
00:19:30,100 --> 00:19:34,500
I mean what did it seem like to 
you from that perspective as 

322
00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,600
this many stores are coming out 
and reporters are essentially 

323
00:19:36,600 --> 00:19:41,400
making their careers out of you 
know, this sort of Story. 

324
00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,900
I mean obviously there was there
was malfeasance that we were 

325
00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,100
discussing here and certainly 
when it came to, you know, 

326
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:51,000
flouting insurance regulations 
in different states. 

327
00:19:51,000 --> 00:19:53,300
You know, you could argue that 
were Stakes Beyond just And of 

328
00:19:53,900 --> 00:19:56,700
condoms in the stairwell, but 
did it? 

329
00:19:56,900 --> 00:19:58,800
I don't know. 
I mean, I've always wondered 

330
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,100
from the entrepreneur 
perspective, as reporters are 

331
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,000
essentially, you know, we're 
getting pay raises out of 

332
00:20:04,000 --> 00:20:06,600
writing stories, like this 
ultimately, I mean, what is it? 

333
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:08,700
What is it from the other side? 
I wasn't, I wasn't aware that. 

334
00:20:08,700 --> 00:20:10,700
Were you getting pay raises 
Eric? 

335
00:20:10,700 --> 00:20:13,200
It was that a none of us have 
gotten pay raises in a long 

336
00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:14,400
time. 
Well, not nothing. 

337
00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:18,100
It's not like they're like it's 
more just like, oh, if you write

338
00:20:18,100 --> 00:20:20,500
good stories, you're going to do
better in your career, you know 

339
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,700
what I mean, right? 
Tom, are you? 

340
00:20:23,700 --> 00:20:25,600
Yeah, yeah, no. 
I mean, look, I've like gone on 

341
00:20:25,600 --> 00:20:27,800
vacations before and I've been 
like, man, you know what 

342
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,400
afforded this vacation like 
Snapchat, really fucked up a 

343
00:20:30,408 --> 00:20:32,700
couple years ago and it's, I 
mean, look, it's true. 

344
00:20:32,700 --> 00:20:36,900
It's the nature of the job and 
obviously we aspire to Greater 

345
00:20:36,900 --> 00:20:40,500
reasons as to why we write these
stories and tell more important 

346
00:20:40,500 --> 00:20:43,100
things in just that. 
But, you know, there is another 

347
00:20:43,100 --> 00:20:44,900
side to what there are people 
that were writing about that. 

348
00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:47,600
I've always wondered. 
Look, one thing I will say, is 

349
00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:52,300
that when stuff like this 
happens, there are people that 

350
00:20:52,300 --> 00:20:57,800
have institutional apparatus 
behind them, you know, then 

351
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:03,100
have, you know, PR firms, PR 
agencies, established media 

352
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:08,900
relationships, Lanny Davis 
people like like wonderful human

353
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:14,800
beings, like Lanny Davis, who 
rep, David Yaks, and who David 

354
00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,000
hired, you know, immediately, 
when this went down and who, 

355
00:21:19,700 --> 00:21:22,500
from what I've heard from, from 
other reporters that, you know, 

356
00:21:22,900 --> 00:21:25,700
David Sachs and Lanny Davis were
kind of on the phone everyday. 

357
00:21:25,700 --> 00:21:28,100
Sort of pitching stories about 
me for six months. 

358
00:21:28,200 --> 00:21:29,900
What kinds of stories that I 
picked? 

359
00:21:30,400 --> 00:21:32,000
I don't know. 
I mean, I, you know, I heard 

360
00:21:32,000 --> 00:21:35,800
about a lot of that sort of 
second hand, but, you know, 

361
00:21:35,800 --> 00:21:38,800
there are people like me who are
just kind of like, hold up at 

362
00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:44,100
home and kind of ignoring all of
it and, you know, largely, you 

363
00:21:44,100 --> 00:21:48,900
know, not talking to to anyone 
but isn't isn't that an argument

364
00:21:48,900 --> 00:21:52,400
for the VC's actually being 
powerful that like that when the

365
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:57,600
come With the company happens. 
And reason orbits is super sort 

366
00:21:57,600 --> 00:22:02,800
of the power broker in a way 
that suddenly the founder isn't 

367
00:22:02,900 --> 00:22:06,600
or you know, I mean a conflict 
in your story to me which I 

368
00:22:06,608 --> 00:22:11,000
mostly agree with is just you 
know, andreasen brings in David 

369
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,500
Sachs who caused some of your 
like there are things where the 

370
00:22:13,508 --> 00:22:17,500
VC firm clearly had a big role 
in the company and, you know, 

371
00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:19,500
you want to point to them for 
some blame but you're also like,

372
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:20,900
oh they're not really big 
player. 

373
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:24,000
You know I think one one thing 
is certain sort of understanding

374
00:22:24,000 --> 00:22:30,200
like the nature of like the VC 
VC s sort of power over 

375
00:22:30,200 --> 00:22:37,100
companies and one thing that 
I've come to understand is it's 

376
00:22:37,100 --> 00:22:45,600
not about board control you 
know, I you know I had control 

377
00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:51,300
of the board at Santa Fitz and I
think it's really, you know what

378
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:56,300
happens is The The Authority 
that that VCS have over 

379
00:22:56,300 --> 00:23:00,000
companies is a media Authority. 
It's a, it's a, it's a public 

380
00:23:00,000 --> 00:23:01,600
at, you know, it's say, it's 
sort of saying. 

381
00:23:01,600 --> 00:23:06,000
Like, look, if you, you will do 
what we want you to do, or we 

382
00:23:06,000 --> 00:23:09,900
will publicly go to war with the
company, you know, and we will, 

383
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,100
you know, sale, these bad things
about you in the press and 

384
00:23:14,100 --> 00:23:16,400
disavow, the investment. 
All that kind of stuff, which is

385
00:23:16,800 --> 00:23:22,300
a surprisingly common tactic 
that firms employee far more 

386
00:23:22,300 --> 00:23:25,100
frequently. 
Lie in terms of that having, you

387
00:23:25,100 --> 00:23:28,500
know, sort of telling Founders 
that then actually sort of 

388
00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:30,400
pulling the trigger and doing 
it. 

389
00:23:31,600 --> 00:23:36,400
And, you know, that is, I think 
the nature of the authority that

390
00:23:36,500 --> 00:23:39,700
investors often have over these 
companies is like, far more this

391
00:23:39,700 --> 00:23:41,900
like moral Authority with the 
public. 

392
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:49,000
And, you know, that's that's 
something that that I that I 

393
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:52,600
disagree with. 
So I just want to make sure that

394
00:23:52,600 --> 00:23:56,900
we have all the people who've 
just mentioned correct correctly

395
00:23:56,900 --> 00:23:58,900
identified because there are 
people who might not know what 

396
00:23:58,900 --> 00:23:59,900
happened. 
It's benefits. 

397
00:23:59,900 --> 00:24:02,200
But David Sachs he came and he 
replaced you as CEO. 

398
00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:03,400
Is that correct? 
Yeah. 

399
00:24:04,500 --> 00:24:08,000
And he was brought in by Venture
capitalists by Andreessen, 

400
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,400
Horowitz date. 
Me David joined a year and a 

401
00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,800
half two years before I left, 
and he was CEO of the company 

402
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:17,100
for a period of time. 
Hmm. 

403
00:24:17,500 --> 00:24:20,400
And he, what was that your 
higher or did feces? 

404
00:24:21,000 --> 00:24:24,000
Him to join. 
He was deaf. 

405
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,100
He was definitely introduced to 
me by the VC firm. 

406
00:24:27,200 --> 00:24:30,500
I mean I remember there was this
moment right around that. 

407
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:33,500
Actually the time that that that
piece ran in the New York Times 

408
00:24:33,500 --> 00:24:38,300
where, you know, we were like I 
said if it's growing so quickly,

409
00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:42,800
I mean we were we went in that 
year when David joined we went 

410
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:49,800
from you know, 20 employees to 
450 and I remember talking to 

411
00:24:50,900 --> 00:24:53,700
Like Lars dalgaard who is our 
board member for injuries and 

412
00:24:53,700 --> 00:24:56,100
Horowitz in sort of August of 
that year. 

413
00:24:56,100 --> 00:25:00,100
And I said, look I think we've 
got a, you know, pump the brakes

414
00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:03,900
a little bit and like, slow down
because it's just like, it feels

415
00:25:03,900 --> 00:25:07,000
like everywhere. 
It's just hard to keep up with 

416
00:25:07,000 --> 00:25:08,800
and because, you know, when 
you're growing really quickly 

417
00:25:10,000 --> 00:25:12,900
little things that go wrong 
quickly, spiral out of control 

418
00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:17,600
and become like, very hard to 
address and Lars looked at me 

419
00:25:17,608 --> 00:25:22,500
and he said, don't you dare, if 
you do that, You don't know that

420
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:28,000
when you are ready to grow again
whether you're even able to you 

421
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:32,500
know whether the sort of focus 
of the market has turned 

422
00:25:32,700 --> 00:25:37,200
somewhere else and he said look 
let's let's hire a CEO. 

423
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:39,600
Oh and I you know there's this 
great guy that we've been 

424
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:44,100
talking with who's David and 
that's and then I met with David

425
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:47,500
and that's idea joint. 
He was impressive to you as I 

426
00:25:47,500 --> 00:25:50,100
mean, he's like a I was 
impressed about is like sure was

427
00:25:50,100 --> 00:25:54,700
a big name, you know, PayPal, 
you know, like I mean it was a, 

428
00:25:55,200 --> 00:26:01,400
you know, superficially. 
You know, he was, you know, he 

429
00:26:01,400 --> 00:26:04,000
was an impressive, Brent, you 
were connected to the mafia, 

430
00:26:04,400 --> 00:26:12,600
this is good. 
I mean, I feel like we I mean 

431
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,500
now we've talked about zenefits 
a lot. 

432
00:26:14,500 --> 00:26:17,100
So I want to make the Clear. 
The clear argument against you 

433
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:21,900
is just, you know, first that 
there was the macro this tool 

434
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:25,800
that help people stay on their 
sort of licensing test, when 

435
00:26:25,900 --> 00:26:27,600
they're supposed to send a 
certain amount of time. 

436
00:26:27,700 --> 00:26:30,400
Yes it didn't progress them 
through it but it was a tool 

437
00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:36,400
that sort of was meant to skirt,
you know, the legal requirements

438
00:26:36,400 --> 00:26:39,600
and then to you know, there were
in fact, and this is what we'll 

439
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,000
Dalton was reporting 
legitimately that there were, 

440
00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,500
you know, Brokers that were 
unlicensed, you know. 

441
00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,300
There were license one state but
not in the state. 

442
00:26:47,300 --> 00:26:50,300
They were selling in and that 
there's an argument certainly 

443
00:26:50,300 --> 00:26:53,400
for injuries since acts that 
they were going to have this 

444
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,200
huge that they had legitimate 
legal problems and the company 

445
00:26:57,200 --> 00:27:01,400
was going to have to move past 
them and I mean it's a classic. 

446
00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:05,100
I mean I think literally I found
was it Ben Horowitz or Marc 

447
00:27:05,100 --> 00:27:07,200
Andreessen who had written a 
post that when you turn on the 

448
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,600
CEO you need to turn on them 
like 100%. 

449
00:27:09,700 --> 00:27:13,400
So you have these problems, you 
say, okay it's you know the 

450
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,000
responsibilities sort of rolls 
up to the Top and like we don't 

451
00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,200
have voting control. 
So we really need a gun for this

452
00:27:19,200 --> 00:27:21,800
guy. 
And then I mean that's that's 

453
00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:24,300
sort of the strategy. 
I don't know. 

454
00:27:24,300 --> 00:27:25,900
Do you disagree with that 
portrait? 

455
00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,900
I mean, you know, look, I, you 
know, I think there's not enough

456
00:27:30,900 --> 00:27:33,600
time this podcast to get into 
the sort of ins and outs of all 

457
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:35,700
the of all that of all. 
Sure enough. 

458
00:27:35,800 --> 00:27:40,100
Can I ask you Parker about your,
you know, in starting Rippling, 

459
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,000
which is the benefits 
competitor. 

460
00:27:42,500 --> 00:27:44,800
Yeah, yes. 
Yeah, yeah. 

461
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,200
And I remember, And you know, 
you were raised in that initial 

462
00:27:47,200 --> 00:27:49,800
round and the stories were 
coming together, that like here 

463
00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:53,100
comes Parker Conrad again and it
was something of a comeback 

464
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:54,600
story. 
Something of a I can't believe 

465
00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:58,000
they let this guy in the 
building again story and you 

466
00:27:58,008 --> 00:28:00,200
know, ultimately it's doing very
well. 

467
00:28:00,200 --> 00:28:03,700
We used Rippling actually at the
information switch from zenefits

468
00:28:03,700 --> 00:28:05,000
to Rippling at some point down 
the line. 

469
00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:09,900
So that's one account one. 
But you know, what did it what 

470
00:28:09,900 --> 00:28:11,900
was that process? 
Like for you, as you were 

471
00:28:11,900 --> 00:28:15,100
starting a new company coming 
back as the guy that had been 

472
00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:16,900
deposed. 
As for the previous one and 

473
00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:18,400
effectively, doing the same 
thing. 

474
00:28:19,300 --> 00:28:21,600
So first, I mean, I would I 
would disagree that it's the 

475
00:28:21,600 --> 00:28:23,700
same thing. 
I think it's extremely 

476
00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:27,300
different. 
It in ways that I mean I'll try 

477
00:28:27,300 --> 00:28:29,900
to articulate and then you may 
say yeah but it's the same thing

478
00:28:30,700 --> 00:28:37,200
I think that the biggest 
difference for me is that, you 

479
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:41,000
know, the central Insight at my 
last company that sometimes 

480
00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:43,700
sometimes people Miss is that, 
you know, sometimes people think

481
00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:46,800
zenefits was just online health.
And that was actually really 

482
00:28:46,800 --> 00:28:51,200
what it was, what made the 
company work is that you had 

483
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:55,900
this button to hire someone and 
you would click hire and they 

484
00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:59,400
would sort of show up 
automatically in all of your HR 

485
00:28:59,400 --> 00:29:01,400
systems. 
You know, they'd get set up in 

486
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:04,600
payroll, we get their agreement 
signed, they would show up and 

487
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,400
medical insurance, dental, 
insurance 401 k. 

488
00:29:07,900 --> 00:29:12,400
And before that company came 
along, those things were all 

489
00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:15,400
completely separate systems. 
Like these were separate places.

490
00:29:15,500 --> 00:29:17,600
As you have to set up employees 
and there was a lot of 

491
00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:22,200
administrative work associated 
with that and now of course, 

492
00:29:22,200 --> 00:29:25,300
that's become sort of like par 
for the course across a lot of, 

493
00:29:25,300 --> 00:29:26,900
you know, payroll and HR 
systems. 

494
00:29:27,100 --> 00:29:30,500
I think one of the big 
difference with Rippling is the 

495
00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:37,700
belief that, you know, employee 
data is important for almost all

496
00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:41,400
business systems within a 
company, not just the HR ones 

497
00:29:41,800 --> 00:29:46,700
and that, as a result of that, 
there's this Actually the root 

498
00:29:46,700 --> 00:29:52,800
of most of the administrative 
pain of you know, most at most 

499
00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,900
companies comes back to this 
fact that man, all of the 

500
00:29:56,900 --> 00:29:59,800
different business systems that 
you use are different places 

501
00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,300
where you need to manage 
employee information one way or 

502
00:30:02,308 --> 00:30:04,500
another, you know like why is 
it, you got it. 

503
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:06,400
It's a pain in the butt. 
You got to set people up with 

504
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,500
email access with slack access 
with access to Dropbox and 

505
00:30:10,500 --> 00:30:13,000
Salesforce and GitHub. 
And you need to manage email 

506
00:30:13,000 --> 00:30:15,300
list, memberships and slack 
Channel. 

507
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:19,300
And policies that apply to them 
and all these different systems,

508
00:30:19,300 --> 00:30:22,600
and all of these things are 
fundamentally about employee 

509
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:24,200
data. 
You know, it's about someone 

510
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:26,400
gets access to sales force 
because they work in the sales 

511
00:30:26,400 --> 00:30:29,200
department. 
They, you know, they need to be 

512
00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:32,800
subscribed to an email list 
because they're a manager on 

513
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,900
your customer support team. 
And so if you have an underlying

514
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:40,900
system that understands all of 
that, you can give people that 

515
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,300
same button, where they click a 
button to hire someone. 

516
00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,900
But in this case, People get set
up everywhere you know they get 

517
00:30:47,900 --> 00:30:49,700
their computer shipped out to 
them. 

518
00:30:49,700 --> 00:30:52,700
They get access to all these 
different Business Systems, they

519
00:30:52,700 --> 00:30:55,700
get added all the right email 
list, sock channels and 

520
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,600
policies, and groups and license
types or whatever. 

521
00:30:59,000 --> 00:31:02,500
And yes, they get enrolled in 
insurance and set up in payroll 

522
00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:03,500
and all this different stuff in 
it. 

523
00:31:03,500 --> 00:31:09,000
That was there was a sort of 
much bigger opportunity as a 

524
00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:11,200
result as a result of that. 
And I think what happened is, 

525
00:31:11,700 --> 00:31:14,500
you know, zenefits was probably 
starting to move in that 

526
00:31:14,500 --> 00:31:16,800
direction. 
Towards the tail end of my time 

527
00:31:16,800 --> 00:31:21,200
there, but as soon as I left all
of those projects immediately 

528
00:31:21,200 --> 00:31:25,000
got killed because they were 
sort of the Ancien Regime and so

529
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:27,600
they all got sort of shut down 
immediately. 

530
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:37,600
And you know, you know the the 
new CEO came in and you know, he

531
00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:41,600
started firing people and he 
fired all the wrong people, you 

532
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:42,900
know? 
And he fired a lot of people 

533
00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:47,600
because they were, you know, In 
some way, associated with me or,

534
00:31:48,100 --> 00:31:50,900
or at least I saw it as like, 
these are all you're laying out.

535
00:31:50,900 --> 00:31:52,600
And of course, any Founders 
going to look at. 

536
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:54,200
You know what? 
Someone comes in afterwards and 

537
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:58,700
say, like they're doing it all 
wrong, but I sort of felt like, 

538
00:31:58,700 --> 00:32:03,800
man, this thing that I wanted to
exist this product that I 

539
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:05,900
thought I wanted to use that, I 
thought was the way that 

540
00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:09,900
business should do, this stuff 
wasn't going to exist, you know 

541
00:32:09,900 --> 00:32:12,100
that then if it's was kind of 
going off in this different 

542
00:32:12,100 --> 00:32:16,600
direction and you know, other 
editor's were not going to build

543
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:24,300
it and at the same time, you 
know, I, you know, was feeling a

544
00:32:24,300 --> 00:32:28,400
lot of frustration about what 
was going on in the media and 

545
00:32:28,400 --> 00:32:32,700
sort of what was being written 
about me in the press and places

546
00:32:32,700 --> 00:32:36,400
like that. 
And I sort of felt like the only

547
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:45,200
way that I was going to speak, 
you know, to the extended, you 

548
00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,900
know, Kind of Tech Community to 
the media to my friends and 

549
00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:52,200
family. 
The only way I was going to be 

550
00:32:52,200 --> 00:32:56,700
able to do that was to like 
build this specific company and 

551
00:32:56,700 --> 00:33:00,400
turn it into like a hundred 
billion dollar outcome. 

552
00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:04,500
And then if I could do that at 
some point, that would force 

553
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:11,900
some kind of reassessment of all
of this and how far into the 

554
00:33:11,908 --> 00:33:14,000
hundred billion, there were all 
kinds of reasons. 

555
00:33:14,000 --> 00:33:16,600
I wasn't able to serve Really 
talked about it. 

556
00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:21,100
There were, you know, I wasn't, 
you know, that's not, I wasn't, 

557
00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:24,300
that's not where that kind of 
politicking wasn't really where 

558
00:33:24,300 --> 00:33:29,300
my my talent slide and but this 
was something I could do, you 

559
00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:33,700
know, like I felt like I had a 
point of view about what the 

560
00:33:33,700 --> 00:33:35,900
market needed and sort of how to
get there. 

561
00:33:36,400 --> 00:33:39,000
And that that was the thing I 
was going to focus on and then 

562
00:33:39,000 --> 00:33:45,000
if I did that, you know, and so 
we're you know, I'm 45 pounds. 

563
00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,300
Now, the story is not, how could
you, how could you raise, raise 

564
00:33:48,300 --> 00:33:50,700
VC, money again? 
I mean, sort of, I mean, 

565
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:55,700
basically, the YC crowd sticks 
with you, Sam Altman, initialize

566
00:33:55,700 --> 00:33:58,800
back. 
You, I mean, what did you did 

567
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,700
you change anything about how 
you worked with VC's in this or 

568
00:34:01,700 --> 00:34:04,900
what or you're just sort of 
stuck in that trap? 

569
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:08,000
I think I'm extremely grateful. 
They're there were a bunch of 

570
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:13,000
investors that backed me and 
supported me when it was not a 

571
00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:18,400
popular thing to do. 
And I will be forever grateful 

572
00:34:18,600 --> 00:34:26,699
to, you know, to yc2 Gary tan to
Mamoon @k p and all those folks 

573
00:34:29,199 --> 00:34:34,000
and yeah and other sort of new 
investors like CO2 and folks 

574
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:36,500
like that. 
I think in general, like most of

575
00:34:36,500 --> 00:34:40,300
the investors who really 
understood what happened? 

576
00:34:40,900 --> 00:34:45,000
Did not have any issue with it 
and and the investors that went 

577
00:34:45,000 --> 00:34:48,199
really Upon diligence sort of 
came out of that. 

578
00:34:48,199 --> 00:34:52,199
Be like, we have no concerns did
Ben Horowitz, try and scare 

579
00:34:52,199 --> 00:34:55,900
anybody off. 
There were definitely like 

580
00:34:55,900 --> 00:34:57,500
people. 
There were definitely, I don't 

581
00:34:57,500 --> 00:35:02,700
know about been specifically, 
but certainly certainly. 

582
00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:06,500
There were, there were people 
like, like Saks or others who 

583
00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:09,200
called up, you know, people in 
that process and said, don't 

584
00:35:09,200 --> 00:35:12,400
invest. 
And sometimes they did that 

585
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,700
success preemptively. 
Like not as a reference 

586
00:35:14,700 --> 00:35:16,700
priapism. 
Like, oh absolutely would go 

587
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:21,200
around preemptively. 
Yeah, no, I mean, there was a 

588
00:35:21,200 --> 00:35:26,900
firm that I had a GP meeting 
scheduled with on a Monday and, 

589
00:35:27,100 --> 00:35:29,300
you know, I think David called 
him right before and on Sunday, 

590
00:35:29,300 --> 00:35:32,600
they called me up and said up 
like so and so just talk to 

591
00:35:32,600 --> 00:35:36,200
David. 
He's poker buddies with him and,

592
00:35:37,000 --> 00:35:39,700
you know, sorry I've got to 
cancel the GP meeting. 

593
00:35:41,800 --> 00:35:46,000
I'd like to just, you know, for 
change course for just a second 

594
00:35:46,200 --> 00:35:49,700
and note that you have been 
starting companies for a really 

595
00:35:49,700 --> 00:35:51,800
long time. 
I think the first company you 

596
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:55,000
started was in 2006. 
Is that correct? 

597
00:35:55,300 --> 00:35:58,100
Yeah, that's right. 
And it was, it was a financial 

598
00:35:58,100 --> 00:36:00,500
services start up of some sort 
Sig fig. 

599
00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:05,600
And so was many things over the 
course of time that I was there.

600
00:36:05,700 --> 00:36:08,900
You know, your first company 
wasn't 2006 and I note. 

601
00:36:08,900 --> 00:36:12,300
There's an interesting 
description of your History in a

602
00:36:12,300 --> 00:36:15,900
profile of you from last year. 
Basically that you start your 

603
00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:19,700
first company in 2006 and you're
pushed out of the company 

604
00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:24,000
because you have a falling out 
with the co-founder and then 

605
00:36:24,000 --> 00:36:28,200
zenefits you leave that company 
obviously after a falling out 

606
00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:36,000
with both investors and with 
David Sachs and so in this in 

607
00:36:36,000 --> 00:36:39,400
this latest iteration of the 
company or starting, can you 

608
00:36:39,400 --> 00:36:41,200
talk a little bit about what it 
is? 

609
00:36:41,200 --> 00:36:44,600
As you learn, you know, you know
these these tough Departures, 

610
00:36:44,900 --> 00:36:48,400
what it what what has what have 
you change about yourself in 

611
00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:52,700
response to? 
You know, these startups that 

612
00:36:52,700 --> 00:36:55,700
have come and gone for you? 
You know what, what how do you 

613
00:36:55,700 --> 00:36:59,800
see things differently than you 
did in 2006 or even when you 

614
00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:07,000
started zenefits about yourself?
I think it's really hard. 

615
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:11,400
I think the only the only thing.
I mean I've obviously I've Had 

616
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,700
some big successes in my life. 
And I've had a lot of pretty 

617
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,300
catastrophic failures and a lot 
of big ups and downs. 

618
00:37:16,700 --> 00:37:20,300
And, and I think like the only 
people in Silicon Valley, always

619
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,000
sort of want to sort of 
mythologize failure. 

620
00:37:24,300 --> 00:37:27,000
And the only thing that I've 
ever really learned from 

621
00:37:27,000 --> 00:37:30,500
failure, is how much it sucks 
and how much you never want it 

622
00:37:30,500 --> 00:37:36,500
to happen again and beyond that,
I'm not sure that there are a 

623
00:37:36,508 --> 00:37:40,000
lot of meaningful deep lessons 
from it. 

624
00:37:40,700 --> 00:37:42,700
To be totally honest. 
Cool. 

625
00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:46,600
All right, this is awesome. 
Thank you for doing our first 

626
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:49,100
experiment. 
I think it's like a fascinating,

627
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:51,600
you know. 
Yeah. 

628
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:58,500
It's an interesting story and 
I'm aware has Rippling a raised 

629
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:01,400
secret new funding around. 
Or what's the secret do? 

630
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,400
Funny rods. 
What's a what's a funny? 

631
00:38:04,400 --> 00:38:06,400
It's the latest valuation 
weapons down. 

632
00:38:28,300 --> 00:38:29,200
Cool. 
Thanks, guys. 

633
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:30,500
Parker. 
Thank you. 

634
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:33,400
And I hope you have a good time.
Beautiful part of me. 

635
00:38:33,400 --> 00:38:34,900
Oh thank you. 
Cool. 

636
00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:37,000
And thanks for hanging with a 
bunch of really annoying 

637
00:38:37,000 --> 00:38:38,900
questions at the end. 
No, no problem. 

638
00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:47,500
I'll touch you guys later. 
Hey everybody, this is Tom here,

639
00:38:47,700 --> 00:38:50,500
quickly, before I sign off, I 
did want to make sure that I 

640
00:38:50,500 --> 00:38:53,500
credited, the great music that 
you heard in our intro and 

641
00:38:53,500 --> 00:38:57,700
outro. 
That is by Young Chomsky who is 

642
00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:00,400
at Young Chomsky on Twitter, 
very graciously. 

643
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,700
Let us use his previously 
composed piece about Silicon 

644
00:39:03,700 --> 00:39:08,100
Valley as our music. 
So thanks so much to him and see

645
00:39:08,100 --> 00:39:09,600
you guys all back here next 
week. 

646
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:21,300
Goodbye, So work on Sally. 
Goodbye. 

647
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:24,000
Goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 

648
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:21,300
Goodbye. 
Goodbye. 

649
00:39:21,300 --> 00:39:24,000
Goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 

650
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:24,300
Goodbye.