1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:16,500 Welcome. Hey it's Eric newcomer with dead 2 00:00:16,500 --> 00:00:18,700 cat. I'm here with Tom and Katie. 3 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:25,000 We are going to talk about Brian Armstrong, the coinbase CEO. 4 00:00:25,300 --> 00:00:31,100 He loves to communicate in tweet store but He wrote one. 5 00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:36,400 I think, you know, a year ago, basically talking about politics 6 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,500 and companies sort of right after the black lives matter 7 00:00:39,500 --> 00:00:43,900 protest, trying to Stamp Out, you know, employee Revolution 8 00:00:43,900 --> 00:00:46,800 inside of coinbase. We're going to talk about that 9 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:49,700 one. Which I think he recently took a 10 00:00:49,700 --> 00:00:54,600 Victory lap on sort of saying that he looks prescient. 11 00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:59,500 And then there's another one from October where he complains 12 00:00:59,500 --> 00:01:02,700 about see Is getting criticized. Tom, do you have it up? 13 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:06,000 You have a better reading voice and I do or I can read them if 14 00:01:06,000 --> 00:01:10,200 semi some of the link I can do my best priority and then we'll 15 00:01:10,200 --> 00:01:12,300 back our way into the politics ones. 16 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:17,600 This is from October 5th at Brian underscore Armstrong won. 17 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:20,800 I do worry that as companies get to be more successful. 18 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,000 The number of attacks from the Press politicians and trolls on 19 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,300 CEOs and rounds of congressional testimony. 20 00:01:27,500 --> 00:01:29,900 Make the job not fun and they leave. 21 00:01:30,100 --> 00:01:34,500 And they leave from burnout Gates page, Bezos dot dot dot. 22 00:01:35,000 --> 00:01:38,200 To America, could be losing some of its best talent from this 23 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,000 America and it has some parallels to what has happened 24 00:01:42,000 --> 00:01:44,100 to successful CEOs in China. You. 25 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:45,800 Oh my God. Okay, I'll keep going through 26 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:47,000 this. You didn't. 27 00:01:47,000 --> 00:01:49,500 I didn't read the second one, how could you? 28 00:01:49,500 --> 00:01:51,100 I'm sorry. How could you compare? 29 00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:52,800 What is happening to the CI Master? 30 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,700 Is he talking about like, Jack Ma and, you know? 31 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:57,500 Yes, yes, he is to set the content. 32 00:01:57,600 --> 00:01:59,700 Like, okay, I'm sorry, I'm sorry, I'm getting ahead of 33 00:01:59,700 --> 00:02:03,100 myself. You don't get moved to how he's 34 00:02:03,100 --> 00:02:04,600 lays it out. You don't get moved to house 35 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:08,800 arrest in the u.s. No you don't you do not but it 36 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:11,200 is. I'm not gonna laugh but it is 37 00:02:11,200 --> 00:02:13,900 our own version of it being something that gets me 38 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:17,100 successful. Yeah, it's American house arrest 39 00:02:17,100 --> 00:02:20,300 is getting a tweet. Putting something that gets to 40 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:23,700 successful in its place 3 parentheses, which doesn't seem 41 00:02:23,700 --> 00:02:26,500 very American. By the way, for real life course 42 00:02:27,900 --> 00:02:30,100 I'm going to finish this. I swear of course. 43 00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,300 Company deserves to have scrutiny and should take an 44 00:02:32,300 --> 00:02:35,300 honest look at what it's doing well, and not well, but the 45 00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:38,000 market solves, a lot of this for us, people vote with their 46 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:41,300 wallet, choosing what to buy. And the best way to keep flawed 47 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:44,200 companies in check is to have new startups, come disrupt them. 48 00:02:44,600 --> 00:02:45,800 So how do you build a company today? 49 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:47,800 That is resistant to demoralizing attacks from 50 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,800 trolls, the more successful it becomes, I'm not sure. 51 00:02:51,500 --> 00:02:55,400 But here here are a few ideas. First, hire employees, and build 52 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,200 a board of independent thinkers who are insulated from bias, 53 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:01,300 third-party script in their minds and knock you Late your 54 00:03:01,300 --> 00:03:04,800 supply chain. Second, give customers not just 55 00:03:04,800 --> 00:03:07,400 employees, a sense of ownership crypto is pioneered this? 56 00:03:08,100 --> 00:03:09,500 I think I can stop. Yeah, right. 57 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:11,800 I mean, we don't, we don't know three simply the enemy 58 00:03:11,800 --> 00:03:13,200 descriptions. Yeah. 59 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:15,400 Yeah. I mean Facebook would be facing 60 00:03:15,400 --> 00:03:17,000 a lot. Less hate if all their unique 61 00:03:17,000 --> 00:03:20,900 users owned a piece of the network, if people felt like 62 00:03:20,900 --> 00:03:23,100 everyone was growing together, there would be a greater sense 63 00:03:23,100 --> 00:03:25,400 of unity. I just think the last visit, 64 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:27,900 this is actually not an oncoming why everybody's attacking 65 00:03:27,900 --> 00:03:31,400 Facebook. So I mean Facebook is Clearly a 66 00:03:31,408 --> 00:03:36,000 big subtext of this. I mean, we as the users we need 67 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,700 to do on a piece of the network and we can choose to not use it 68 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:42,000 anymore. Like so many people have what? 69 00:03:42,400 --> 00:03:45,500 I mean, I guess I just feel like welcome to being the CEO of. 70 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:49,400 No, no, Jay P Morgan or Walmart or a Starbucks or any other 71 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:53,000 company that's based real criticism by politicians 72 00:03:53,600 --> 00:03:57,800 reporters and consumers. I'm not really sure what his 73 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,000 point is and it's not like the people, he chose base. 74 00:04:00,200 --> 00:04:04,000 Listen Paige had these like have these really tiny short-lived 75 00:04:04,000 --> 00:04:07,900 careers of their companies, because right, if they couldn't 76 00:04:07,900 --> 00:04:12,200 and besos owns the Washington Post, so it he's he's tweeted 77 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:15,800 before that where said before, you know, CEOs need to have a 78 00:04:15,808 --> 00:04:18,100 tough skin. I mean, yeah, it does. 79 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:23,200 If this seems like a very San Francisco complaint, you know, 80 00:04:23,200 --> 00:04:26,300 just like, oh, criticism sucks or at least people that still 81 00:04:26,300 --> 00:04:28,000 live in San Francisco. I complain. 82 00:04:28,000 --> 00:04:30,000 I just think I'm playing it. Was somebody who hasn't really 83 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:34,400 He looked at any other industry before any other large impactful 84 00:04:34,400 --> 00:04:39,700 industry, I mean it's almost too easy to attack the logic behind 85 00:04:39,700 --> 00:04:43,500 the first one in that thread about you know, the the not 86 00:04:43,500 --> 00:04:47,400 making it fun anymore. So I almost don't want to spend 87 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:49,600 any time on it because it's, you know, we're now like a week 88 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,300 almost from that tweet and everyone is just destroyed it. 89 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:55,900 But the idea of, you know, there being some sort of Market 90 00:04:55,900 --> 00:04:59,600 solution that is opposed to cancel culture was his effective 91 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:01,900 what he's talking about. Is pretty hysterical because 92 00:05:01,900 --> 00:05:03,800 that's the same thing. I mean the point of cancelled 93 00:05:03,800 --> 00:05:06,600 culture as a concern. No one's forcing it like it's 94 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:08,400 coming. It's a Grassroots movement. 95 00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:12,500 So if your point is like people can vote with their wallets as a 96 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:16,600 way to correct, the mistakes that companies or people are 97 00:05:16,600 --> 00:05:18,900 making dude, that's canceled culture. 98 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:20,700 I don't know how else to describe it is. 99 00:05:20,700 --> 00:05:24,400 You're actually out of a Kind by social media, the very industry 100 00:05:24,400 --> 00:05:27,500 and very, you know, if he's defending Facebook, I know that 101 00:05:27,500 --> 00:05:30,800 Facebook that allows cancel culture to List there would be 102 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:33,500 no cancel culture if there weren't social media. 103 00:05:33,900 --> 00:05:36,800 Yeah, he wants to make it about the Press clearly and he says 104 00:05:36,800 --> 00:05:39,700 press politicians and trolls trolls. 105 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:43,000 Trolls is a big area, stroll scape word because I feel like 106 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:46,800 really it's the public, you know that to some degree, I think the 107 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:51,900 Press is more Pro. These companies then at least 108 00:05:51,900 --> 00:05:54,500 the average Twitter user, which is I think the world he's 109 00:05:54,500 --> 00:05:59,200 communicating he's with Yeah, I mean again this this is like 110 00:05:59,200 --> 00:06:01,200 just drawing everything back to Twitter. 111 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:05,200 I think even journalists will be more critical about companies on 112 00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,700 Twitter. It when you actually look at 113 00:06:06,700 --> 00:06:10,100 their work tends to be fairly even-handed if not pro company, 114 00:06:10,100 --> 00:06:12,300 a lot of the time. So there's a lot of 115 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:16,000 extrapolation made unlike what, you know, the public is and 116 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,300 what, you know sentiment is based on their unhappiness on 117 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:21,900 Twitter, which, you know, dude, just get off Twitter. 118 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:24,600 It's, it'll say, it sounds like if that's a huge part of your 119 00:06:24,608 --> 00:06:26,500 problem, you can solve that one. Pretty easy. 120 00:06:26,500 --> 00:06:28,000 It is. It seems like his Twitter 121 00:06:28,000 --> 00:06:30,400 specific problem. Like the New York Times is not 122 00:06:30,400 --> 00:06:33,700 writing about coinbase that much like they did a big 123 00:06:33,700 --> 00:06:37,300 investigation into it, but what's keeping it in the 124 00:06:37,300 --> 00:06:40,600 headlines or what's keeping him? Brian Armstrong's mind. 125 00:06:40,600 --> 00:06:43,500 Presumably is just people at tweeting. 126 00:06:43,500 --> 00:06:45,400 I'm right. I saw that. 127 00:06:45,900 --> 00:06:49,700 Brian chesky is going to be interviewed on axios this 128 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:51,300 evening. We're recording this on a Sunday 129 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:55,600 in which the snippet that I saw said, you know, they're like 130 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,100 what are the biggest threats? Facing US tech companies. 131 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:00,800 This these days and his response was something like the fact that 132 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:04,400 the public hates it right now. And I've also seen, you know, 133 00:07:04,400 --> 00:07:07,300 it's an ex Facebook executive out there talking about how in 134 00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:10,700 San Francisco, you know, the public or politicians or 135 00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:13,000 whatever it is, is doing their best to destroy the network 136 00:07:13,000 --> 00:07:16,200 effects of the city because they hate these companies so much. 137 00:07:16,700 --> 00:07:21,700 And to me, it's just hard to look at any of these complaints 138 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:25,700 and not see a, I'm sorry, use the word, but like a wine Enos 139 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:26,700 on the fact that they're just not. 140 00:07:26,900 --> 00:07:30,400 Universally agile, aided by the public that there isn't like a 141 00:07:30,407 --> 00:07:33,100 complete sense of agreement with everything they stand for and 142 00:07:33,100 --> 00:07:35,100 everything they're literally just being treated like every 143 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:36,700 other industry. Yeah. 144 00:07:37,200 --> 00:07:39,000 And people like to like tech companies, right? 145 00:07:39,000 --> 00:07:43,100 I mean, just I mean, the data is just like a little more people 146 00:07:43,200 --> 00:07:47,700 like thanks Amazon's one of the most trusted organizations in 147 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:50,100 the world. I was just remarking to my 148 00:07:50,100 --> 00:07:52,300 girlfriend, you know, we were traveling internationally and 149 00:07:52,300 --> 00:07:54,500 you're dealing with like, terrible, passport 150 00:07:54,500 --> 00:07:57,300 infrastructure and governments and you're like, Oh this the 151 00:07:57,300 --> 00:07:59,900 government doesn't work that well, I mean, even as like a 152 00:07:59,907 --> 00:08:04,200 super cynical Tech reporter, this is gonna get me booed, I 153 00:08:04,200 --> 00:08:07,000 think, but if I had to trust any organization to move me around 154 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,200 the world, I think it would be Amazon. 155 00:08:09,300 --> 00:08:11,500 You know, like that? That is my genuine. 156 00:08:11,500 --> 00:08:15,600 Sincere you a box here but we especially the packaging is 157 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:22,200 quite waste. There are few, not 158 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:24,800 understanding, why, or how she's like Amazon. 159 00:08:26,900 --> 00:08:30,400 Like, who do you really trust? You, they need to, like, do some 160 00:08:30,700 --> 00:08:35,000 sort of logistical feat. Yeah, and still, you know, I 161 00:08:35,000 --> 00:08:38,799 think we should spend most of our time as press scrutinizing 162 00:08:38,799 --> 00:08:41,100 Amazon, because that's sort of the basis sumption. 163 00:08:41,299 --> 00:08:44,500 That Amazon's huge is what we all rely on it. 164 00:08:44,500 --> 00:08:48,100 It's it's a big part of our society kudos to you. 165 00:08:48,100 --> 00:08:49,900 You know. I do we really need to say that 166 00:08:49,900 --> 00:08:51,300 all the time like that Simplicity. 167 00:08:51,300 --> 00:08:54,500 Well reason they get criticism is because they're so big. 168 00:08:54,500 --> 00:08:57,300 We think because they have power influence, Fluent right? 169 00:08:57,300 --> 00:08:58,900 Do they need a pat on the back to? 170 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:00,900 It's like you got it. Like, you get the money, you 171 00:09:00,900 --> 00:09:02,100 know? You never say. 172 00:09:02,100 --> 00:09:04,200 Thank you. That's what the money is for. 173 00:09:04,200 --> 00:09:05,800 Yeah. But with also, the most 174 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,700 concerning parts of Amazon, or the part that gets criticized, 175 00:09:08,700 --> 00:09:11,400 the most, by the press or whatever, by critics are things 176 00:09:11,400 --> 00:09:13,500 that usually happen behind the scenes, right? 177 00:09:13,500 --> 00:09:18,200 That their actions taking place in their warehouses or, you 178 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:20,800 know, maybe the internal mechanisms of their lobbying 179 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,200 efforts or, you know, hq2 and things like that. 180 00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:26,400 I mean, the reason Facebook probably is the most hated of 181 00:09:26,400 --> 00:09:27,700 all of these. Companies right now is because 182 00:09:27,700 --> 00:09:30,800 it's all laid out there in for public view like we as the 183 00:09:30,800 --> 00:09:33,700 public or participating in it. But also, you know, the 184 00:09:33,700 --> 00:09:36,900 unhappiness that we see politically socially right now. 185 00:09:37,200 --> 00:09:40,200 And then the part of it that we have attributed to Facebook is 186 00:09:40,200 --> 00:09:43,700 just so available. It's in this kind of like public 187 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,300 view that we can find our anger in it placed. 188 00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:49,600 Very viscerally. Yeah, we were part of it. 189 00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:50,700 Yeah. Yeah. 190 00:09:50,700 --> 00:09:54,400 Where is like, you know, Amazon is probably the least of all of 191 00:09:54,400 --> 00:09:55,900 them. Right there are these cameras on 192 00:09:55,900 --> 00:09:58,200 just faces the same? Criticism that Starbucks or 193 00:09:58,200 --> 00:10:02,300 Walmart faces, Amazon faces, the criticism of any large employer 194 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:06,900 that employs you know a lot of people with varying degrees of 195 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:11,300 benefits, you know. So it's no it's really no 196 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:14,300 different than the way that Walmart was criticized a couple 197 00:10:14,300 --> 00:10:15,300 of decades ago. Right. 198 00:10:15,300 --> 00:10:19,000 Let's start by right criticized. Well, Marty Trio for its for how 199 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,600 its scheduled part-time employees. 200 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:24,200 Basically destroying their lives in order to maximize, like a 201 00:10:24,200 --> 00:10:27,900 scintilla of profit for Starbucks, like there was The 202 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:30,500 good that came out of that reporting, is that Starbucks 203 00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:34,800 decided that it was worth it, for whatever reason. 204 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:36,500 I'm not going to get in their heads but it was worth it to 205 00:10:36,500 --> 00:10:38,600 change that system and ultimately it was a benefit to 206 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:40,500 employees. I think the Amazon is actually 207 00:10:40,500 --> 00:10:44,000 criticized just like any other large corporate employer. 208 00:10:44,200 --> 00:10:47,300 Facebook is different. Facebook is very different. 209 00:10:47,900 --> 00:10:50,300 Yeah because you know better. Well yeah, I think that's a 210 00:10:50,308 --> 00:10:54,800 great distillation of it that Part of the issue with Facebook 211 00:10:54,800 --> 00:10:57,500 and why why it can feel like everybody has an opinion. 212 00:10:57,500 --> 00:10:59,800 Because so much of what they're doing wrong is self-evident. 213 00:10:59,800 --> 00:11:02,500 Like obviously there's a lot of good reporting on the internal 214 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:05,800 workings and we learned some of that and that's all important 215 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:09,000 and I don't want to under play that but it does feel like a lot 216 00:11:09,000 --> 00:11:13,000 of the problems with Facebook you can just consume it because 217 00:11:13,000 --> 00:11:15,300 that Saucy well the problems with face, right? 218 00:11:15,400 --> 00:11:20,800 Right. Yeah, I do wish like in the in 219 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:24,300 the media critiques. Like this is talking about the 220 00:11:24,300 --> 00:11:28,500 Press first, the the Brian Armstrong thing they were 221 00:11:28,600 --> 00:11:31,700 pivoting around here II do? I wish we would just sort of 222 00:11:31,700 --> 00:11:36,600 like distinguish between like press reporters Gathering new 223 00:11:36,600 --> 00:11:39,200 information, like the stories, you're outlining on Amazon, 224 00:11:39,200 --> 00:11:40,900 where it's like stuff. We don't see where there 225 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:44,600 actually were people are doing reporting but so much of this 226 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,400 stuff they hate in the Press is just like yeah, how they 227 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:49,300 manifest. At how the reporters behave on 228 00:11:49,300 --> 00:11:53,400 Twitter, op-ed columns, like I feel like we almost 229 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,000 strategically as the media should get want to get to a 230 00:11:56,000 --> 00:12:01,100 point where we collapse, op-ed columns into just like that's 231 00:12:01,100 --> 00:12:03,800 just a person, you know, it's just like those should just be 232 00:12:03,800 --> 00:12:07,900 treated as people and not distinguished as press because 233 00:12:07,900 --> 00:12:10,100 like they're just mad. They'll like the public members 234 00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:13,800 of the public disagree. With what with what they're 235 00:12:13,800 --> 00:12:18,200 doing, you know, it's not real but largely yeah, yeah, no. 236 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:23,000 And this all just seems to be boomeranging from the collapse 237 00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:27,900 of the mythology that a lot of tech Executives and Venture 238 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:30,400 capitalists and people in the industry created over the last 239 00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:33,200 decade which is that we're going to do big industry, but we're 240 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,600 going to do it different. We're going to find a way to 241 00:12:35,600 --> 00:12:38,100 inspire people. Not just to make a lot of money 242 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,700 by building huge businesses that take over smaller businesses and 243 00:12:41,700 --> 00:12:42,700 all aspects of Our Lives. Lives. 244 00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:45,200 We're going to do it with the mission and we're going to do it 245 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:48,500 in a way that is inspiring. The people that not only work at 246 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:51,100 the companies but the people that use it and when it comes 247 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:54,200 down to it, we're now like you know a decade two decades into 248 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,600 that movement. We've seen that everything just 249 00:12:56,608 --> 00:12:59,700 kind of falls back into place of what you know the trajectory of 250 00:12:59,700 --> 00:13:02,900 big business and you may think you've done it differently and 251 00:13:02,900 --> 00:13:08,000 think you've built a completely new infrastructure like like 252 00:13:08,000 --> 00:13:10,900 social infrastructure around it, but it's it just ends up being 253 00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:13,200 the same thing and you're just going through You know, like 254 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:16,100 Haiti can probably talk more to this than any of us about like 255 00:13:16,100 --> 00:13:19,000 what kind of happened with the banking industry in 2008. 256 00:13:19,000 --> 00:13:22,400 And obviously it hasn't destroyed, you know, the economy 257 00:13:22,400 --> 00:13:26,400 in the way that that did. But people just lost faith in 258 00:13:26,400 --> 00:13:28,800 you know, the positive aspects of this business and sort of see 259 00:13:28,800 --> 00:13:31,700 it as a an industry. That enriches a lot of people 260 00:13:31,700 --> 00:13:34,800 and that's because it is so embedded in our lives, we can't 261 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:40,000 write, we can't walk away from JP Morgan or Citibank. 262 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:43,300 We have to use them. And similarly, You can argue 263 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:45,500 that social media has also been embedded in our lives. 264 00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:48,400 Like, we don't have to be on Twitter, but again, I've said 265 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:50,500 this a million times. If you live in a rural part of 266 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,600 the country, almost all of your services are on Facebook. 267 00:13:53,800 --> 00:13:56,800 So your city, Hall's website is a Facebook page. 268 00:13:57,000 --> 00:14:00,400 Your kids Elementary School website is a Facebook page. 269 00:14:00,400 --> 00:14:02,300 If you want to know what's going on at your church, it's a 270 00:14:02,308 --> 00:14:04,900 Facebook page. So there is a way in which it's 271 00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:07,700 really hard to walk away from a service like Facebook to. 272 00:14:08,100 --> 00:14:11,500 So it's more like how do we change the company because we're 273 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:13,600 in many ways stuck. Stop with the company. 274 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:16,400 We aren't the three of us. We can walk away from Facebook 275 00:14:16,400 --> 00:14:20,500 and Instagram but I just wonder where addicts, right? 276 00:14:20,700 --> 00:14:23,600 That's it. And when we when we all quit her 277 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:36,700 job but it's funny even you don't 278 00:14:36,700 --> 00:14:39,500 have to be on Twitter for it to affect your lives, right? 279 00:14:39,500 --> 00:14:43,600 I mean in our now, trash cans Code, that was recording on 280 00:14:43,600 --> 00:14:46,000 Friday. You know, I always bring up my 281 00:14:46,000 --> 00:14:49,000 mom as like the perfect example of, like my mrs. 282 00:14:49,000 --> 00:14:51,600 Duck tongue. Yeah, as like the American who 283 00:14:51,600 --> 00:14:55,500 is incredibly influenced by the news that she consumes large you 284 00:14:55,500 --> 00:14:58,500 through CNN and I don't know, the chronicle and whatever else 285 00:14:58,700 --> 00:14:59,900 she is. Never been on Twitter. 286 00:14:59,900 --> 00:15:03,700 I think she briefly joined it during the 2016 election because 287 00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:06,300 there was so much talk of it. She's like, what's this about? 288 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:09,500 And she main account, she got on and she's like, oh no, this is 289 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,500 impossible to use in. This is scary but the opinion. 290 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:15,900 That get discussed on Twitter, obviously influence. 291 00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:19,500 A lot of the mainstream news and it's almost like Twitter is the 292 00:15:19,500 --> 00:15:22,600 AWS of opinion making like you don't Nest, you don't know that 293 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:26,600 it's there but it exists as this fundamental infrastructure layer 294 00:15:26,600 --> 00:15:30,300 to the way, the broader World works that opinions are being 295 00:15:30,300 --> 00:15:34,000 workshopped on it all the time to find most basically the most 296 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,700 outrageous opinions, the stickiest ones. 297 00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:40,400 And then you have the ones that then breakthrough and land on 298 00:15:41,000 --> 00:15:44,800 Fox or on you know, MSNBC or whatever, right? 299 00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,500 It's like Don Lemon reads Twitter or his producers reach 300 00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,800 Twitter and then they help him. Formulate, the talking points 301 00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,500 that are going to eat a really stimulate the particular 302 00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:57,800 audience that still watches CNN and and yeah, I think like again 303 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:00,100 it gets back to the idea that people are unhappy in a lot of 304 00:16:00,100 --> 00:16:04,500 ways right now. And Tech is behind so much of it 305 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:07,600 just because of the tools and systems that they built, and 306 00:16:07,800 --> 00:16:10,700 these CEOs are going to have to just reckon with that. 307 00:16:10,700 --> 00:16:13,700 Like you can't just blame the press and say Were, you know, 308 00:16:13,700 --> 00:16:15,900 independently writing mean things about them. 309 00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:19,500 And if we just stopped doing it, everyone would feel better. 310 00:16:19,500 --> 00:16:23,700 Well, I think there is actually a good bridge between these 311 00:16:23,700 --> 00:16:25,700 tweet storms in what you guys have been saying. 312 00:16:26,000 --> 00:16:29,800 Because I mean we basically have the tech companies, particularly 313 00:16:29,800 --> 00:16:32,500 Google and Facebook setting themselves up as he's like 314 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:36,900 world-changing companies and there's nothing that the Press 315 00:16:36,900 --> 00:16:39,100 loves more than when you set high standards for yourself over 316 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:41,400 the breast and the public, you know, because you'll be measured 317 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,000 against the standards. You Publicly articulate, so then 318 00:16:44,000 --> 00:16:45,700 you're not, you know, it's a backhoe company. 319 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:48,800 Your this world-changing company you get held by heart high 320 00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:51,700 standards. And then we have Armstrong 321 00:16:51,700 --> 00:16:55,200 coming in and saying, actually, we're a company with a specific 322 00:16:55,200 --> 00:16:57,500 Mission. We shouldn't have politics that 323 00:16:57,500 --> 00:17:00,500 our company and so we're going to we're going to stick to the 324 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:02,600 mission. We're not everything and 325 00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:05,599 anything. And so then you get this sort of 326 00:17:05,599 --> 00:17:10,400 tweet storm that is definitely maligned by the Press. 327 00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,800 I'm sure. I mean, I was super - about I 328 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,599 still have some issues with it that we can expand on, but then, 329 00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:20,599 in a sort of Victory lap, September 30th. 330 00:17:21,099 --> 00:17:23,700 You know, he says, what was amazing was the contrast between 331 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:27,099 the news, following my post and the reaction from employees. 332 00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:30,400 And people who spoke to me in private while the media reports 333 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:34,200 were mostly negative and it even spawned some retaliatory and 334 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,900 intellectually dishonest hit pieces, the reaction both from 335 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,400 employees and people I spoke to in private, was overwhelmingly 336 00:17:40,400 --> 00:17:42,300 positive. In fact. 337 00:17:42,800 --> 00:17:51,300 Good. This is, of course, every single 338 00:17:51,300 --> 00:17:54,000 employee, who bothered to say, something to you said something 339 00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:55,700 positive. Yeah, it's amazing how people 340 00:17:55,700 --> 00:17:58,300 during their performance reviews were so complimentary about 341 00:17:58,300 --> 00:18:01,900 these lipids I put in place and I just think like, dude, if 342 00:18:01,900 --> 00:18:04,400 everyone is so complimentary about your policies behind the 343 00:18:04,408 --> 00:18:07,100 scenes, then why do you need the feel the need to in public 344 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:09,800 defend them, just ignore it, clearly doesn't matter, it's not 345 00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,000 reflective of reality. So the fact that he Is taking 346 00:18:13,000 --> 00:18:16,100 this quote-unquote Victory lap. And and I would just like to see 347 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,700 the data behind the positive, because there are ways to 348 00:18:19,700 --> 00:18:20,900 measure these sort of things, right? 349 00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:23,500 Attrition rates to, those go down after you implemented. 350 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,400 These policies, to employee morale, surveys, which I know 351 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,000 we're not the perfect measure, but at least it's something. 352 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,600 Like, if you had pointed to those things I write, I mean, he 353 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:34,600 says we meeting grown our headcount about 110 percent. 354 00:18:34,600 --> 00:18:37,500 While our diversity numbers have remained the same or even 355 00:18:37,500 --> 00:18:39,700 improved on some metrics, I mean, that's super thin. 356 00:18:40,300 --> 00:18:43,200 Well, that's actually kind of shitty, like, if you It doubled 357 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,900 your employee size and only barely budged on right person. 358 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:48,100 And that's especially when people are to say that's a big 359 00:18:48,100 --> 00:18:53,000 victory. I just, you know, I I don't 360 00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,100 disagree with the, I don't disagree with the idea that it's 361 00:18:56,100 --> 00:18:59,200 good to focus more on were than on. 362 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,700 You know what people are angry about on Twitter, vis-à-vis 363 00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:05,400 politics. I don't think that's a bad 364 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:08,900 message to an employee base, which is let's spend our 365 00:19:08,900 --> 00:19:13,500 husband, our work hours, working on work, but Why do you why do 366 00:19:13,500 --> 00:19:16,900 you think the Press with? So - at the time and now we're 367 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:20,200 all just unhappy. I mean it was a say with such a, 368 00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:22,700 you know, tumultuous time I was going to say, it was an 369 00:19:22,700 --> 00:19:26,700 extraordinary time. It wasn't, it wasn't if if we 370 00:19:26,700 --> 00:19:33,300 could rewind and go back to sort of a pre covid moment and if a 371 00:19:33,300 --> 00:19:35,700 CEO, I said I really just think that we're all talking about 372 00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:37,400 politics too much. It's a distraction. 373 00:19:38,000 --> 00:19:39,100 I don't think it would have felt. 374 00:19:39,100 --> 00:19:40,800 I don't think people would have paid much attention. 375 00:19:41,400 --> 00:19:43,800 It just happened to come In this moment, we were dealing with a 376 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:46,900 global pandemic, sort of this like bizarre. 377 00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:51,600 You know, the sort of like bizarre moment where the 378 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:54,100 government was had forced us all to stay in our homes which I 379 00:19:54,100 --> 00:19:56,500 think most people could not have conceived of the United States 380 00:19:56,600 --> 00:20:00,100 until that minute. And then like really important 381 00:20:00,100 --> 00:20:03,400 conversations about race that were sparked by one of the most 382 00:20:03,400 --> 00:20:06,600 horrifying viral videos of a person being killed by another 383 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,700 human being that any of us have ever seen in a really long time. 384 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:14,400 So in that moment to say, I'm just really think that is weird 385 00:20:14,400 --> 00:20:17,000 to talk about politics. Felt weird in that moment we 386 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:19,800 needed outlets, right? And and yeah, that was one of 387 00:20:19,808 --> 00:20:22,800 the first kind of communal things that had happened since 388 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:25,500 the beginning of the pandemic. I remember as the protests were 389 00:20:25,500 --> 00:20:28,600 going, it was like that, in Tiger King, right? 390 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:33,600 We're yeah, exactly. Two, two sides of the same but 391 00:20:33,700 --> 00:20:36,600 but you know what I mean? It was like, no, I'm not being 392 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:39,400 sarcastic. Things revealed, dark aspects of 393 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,100 our country. Think there's a degree to which 394 00:20:44,500 --> 00:20:46,800 Armstrong never makes the politics tweet storm. 395 00:20:47,000 --> 00:20:48,600 We're still getting to the same place. 396 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:52,400 Like there's just a nature that movement sort of burn really 397 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,400 hot, and then it's not like he convinced people. 398 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:59,600 I think that, I mean, obviously, you know, there are some CEOs 399 00:21:00,000 --> 00:21:03,200 who, you know, set policies and cultural norms, that sort of 400 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:07,200 discouraged employee Revolution. But I do think there's a degree 401 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:12,600 to which these things just sort of play out and sort of The heat 402 00:21:12,600 --> 00:21:15,500 the heat was going to when I was going to go right down, generate 403 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:18,300 taking credit for it or not is sort of outside of his control. 404 00:21:18,400 --> 00:21:22,500 I am very empathetic to if it is true that at coinbase and 405 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:26,100 another company's there were intense and ongoing political 406 00:21:26,100 --> 00:21:29,300 discussions talking about larger, social issues, 407 00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:32,700 International politics, or whatever happening on slack that 408 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:35,400 actually does sound hellish, that sounds completely 409 00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:38,600 destabilizing for a company and awful venue to do it and we can 410 00:21:38,600 --> 00:21:40,400 maybe explain eighties live with that. 411 00:21:40,500 --> 00:21:43,300 Well, I was going to say, I think I think The Daily Beast is 412 00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,600 extensively reported on how happened at the New York Times, 413 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,700 so I can talk about it because it's public, but it was. 414 00:21:49,800 --> 00:21:54,600 No fun is the distraction. Yeah, I'm not. 415 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,900 I'm not weighing in on the veracity of the arguments being 416 00:21:58,900 --> 00:22:01,500 made. I'm not and the legitimacy of 417 00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:02,600 them. I'm not criticize. 418 00:22:02,600 --> 00:22:05,300 My criticizing my colleagues for having strong opinions and 419 00:22:05,300 --> 00:22:08,200 sharing them in slack. I'm just saying that as it 420 00:22:08,200 --> 00:22:13,000 became as I move from slack out into To the public sphere, 421 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,900 through the very dogged reporting of other reporters. 422 00:22:15,900 --> 00:22:16,800 Like Max. Hey, why? 423 00:22:16,800 --> 00:22:21,300 Haven't we hired, Max stuff. Anyway, so that happened, you 424 00:22:21,308 --> 00:22:23,800 were times Ombudsman. It's at Michael Pittman. 425 00:22:24,100 --> 00:22:29,500 It's really hard to argue that. That wasn't a distraction. 426 00:22:29,800 --> 00:22:32,600 I mean, it's impossible to say that it wasn't a distraction. 427 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:34,500 Yeah. To the tech company. 428 00:22:34,500 --> 00:22:37,900 Specifically part of this is also just inevitable and a 429 00:22:37,900 --> 00:22:41,300 relation to this focus on Mission that we keep coming back 430 00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:44,500 to Is the way that these companies were pitch to. 431 00:22:44,500 --> 00:22:48,200 A lot of people is you can be a part of the change for good in 432 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,600 the world. And if you believe that you're 433 00:22:50,600 --> 00:22:53,200 going to think that everything the company stands for has to be 434 00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:55,300 reflection of all of your social values. 435 00:22:55,700 --> 00:22:58,400 And if you've subsumed yourself to the company's Mission and 436 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,900 your personal mission, then when things are going on in the 437 00:23:00,900 --> 00:23:04,000 world, that's your outlet to express it, like you've now 438 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:09,300 created like your soul communal, you know spot where these things 439 00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,800 can be hashed out. And if you don't have anything 440 00:23:12,800 --> 00:23:15,300 else then like of course it's going to explode on slack 441 00:23:15,300 --> 00:23:17,900 because you've given up all other aspects of your Social 442 00:23:17,900 --> 00:23:21,200 expression technique scented of media companies and Mission 443 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:24,300 driven company. You know, there's actually a 444 00:23:24,900 --> 00:23:28,500 strong and valid comparison between what's happening in some 445 00:23:28,500 --> 00:23:31,800 Silicon Valley companies, or some startups that were that 446 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:35,100 consider this themselves mission-driven in some respect, 447 00:23:35,400 --> 00:23:37,400 and it was happening in some media companies. 448 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:41,600 I'll just keep General. Yeah, because if the companies 449 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:45,200 Have pitched themselves to their employees as a business. 450 00:23:45,200 --> 00:23:47,600 That also does something for the greater good. 451 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:53,200 If you're sitting at home thinking a lot about, you know, 452 00:23:53,300 --> 00:23:56,000 protests that are happening around the country in the wake 453 00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:58,600 of George Floyd. We're thinking a lot about the 454 00:23:58,600 --> 00:24:01,900 fact that we are even home trapped in our houses, because 455 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:04,300 of a global pandemic that we can't understand. 456 00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,000 But people have very do varying opinions on whether or not 457 00:24:07,000 --> 00:24:08,700 politicians are able to handle it. 458 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:14,700 That does speak to a sense of you know outrage and it also 459 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:17,400 speaks to a sense of what are we doing about it to some level? 460 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,400 I want a company to mission-driven right? 461 00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:22,600 I should be cheering for. If companies want to take on 462 00:24:22,800 --> 00:24:25,100 maybe as a shareholder, I wouldn't but as sort of a member 463 00:24:25,100 --> 00:24:28,500 of the public it's good for companies to take on positive 464 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,200 missions. It's just probably clarify and 465 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,200 everybody involved if it's a narrow enough mission that 466 00:24:34,200 --> 00:24:36,400 people can understand it otherwise you're spending a ton 467 00:24:36,400 --> 00:24:39,000 of time soul-searching about it, all right. 468 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:41,100 Don't know how was your articulate, like, shouldn't we 469 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:45,000 as reporters be. Glad that Google at once said, 470 00:24:45,000 --> 00:24:47,200 you know, do no evil because then you can hold them to that. 471 00:24:47,200 --> 00:24:50,300 And that's better than a tobacco company that just says, like, 472 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,400 fuck you or whatever, I don't know. 473 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:57,500 The, I don't do disagree, or you're like so much on the level 474 00:24:57,500 --> 00:25:00,100 like, oh, the world would just be better if like, profit 475 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,000 revamped. I just got distracted by, like, 476 00:25:02,000 --> 00:25:04,700 the nuclear submarine issue, Espionage issue. 477 00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:07,500 So, I just need to send like to emails really quick. 478 00:25:08,000 --> 00:25:10,100 All right, okay, I can, I Deal with that question? 479 00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,400 Yeah, yeah. I mean, Google has been slammed 480 00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:15,000 for y'all. Now, we're at a low low quality 481 00:25:15,300 --> 00:25:18,000 Harvard Business School, like is Mission. 482 00:25:18,300 --> 00:25:21,700 I mean, it may be out of our depth, but that's why I was 483 00:25:21,708 --> 00:25:24,100 trying to frame it or normatively just like, isn't it 484 00:25:24,100 --> 00:25:26,800 good for the public at least if they hold themselves to that and 485 00:25:26,808 --> 00:25:31,500 then we can hold hold them to some level of benevolence. 486 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:34,100 Yeah, I mean, at some point, everything is just a reflection 487 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:35,800 of are you happy with the products that you're 488 00:25:35,800 --> 00:25:38,700 participating in and buying let's put like this. 489 00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:42,000 I think it's It's a cheap shot at times for The Press to 490 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,100 anytime something happens that is, you know, moderate to 491 00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:50,500 extremely evil in terms of Google's, you know, actions that 492 00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:52,500 you say home that doesn't sound like, don't be evil. 493 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:55,000 Like I don't think it's a particularly intelligent way to 494 00:25:55,000 --> 00:25:57,300 cover a company. And I don't know, I mean Eric 495 00:25:57,300 --> 00:26:01,100 you wrote about boober through its most tumultuous period the 496 00:26:01,100 --> 00:26:04,300 cause of some of its tumult. I don't know what the company. 497 00:26:04,300 --> 00:26:06,300 Yeah, there. I don't think it was actually 498 00:26:07,700 --> 00:26:08,900 talks. There's an issue with you. 499 00:26:09,400 --> 00:26:11,800 Their points that we're going to be very big and very good at 500 00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:13,900 what we do, right? Yeah. 501 00:26:13,900 --> 00:26:16,200 I know. I don't think that was a case 502 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,200 where the company sort of oversold, how good it was and 503 00:26:20,200 --> 00:26:23,000 then people were disappointed. I think, you know, just became 504 00:26:23,000 --> 00:26:27,300 so untenable but you know, right as public Revolt. 505 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:30,700 Yeah. But missions are interesting 506 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:34,000 because I just think that you can say what you want to be 507 00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:38,100 perceived as all you want, but the actions that you take and 508 00:26:38,100 --> 00:26:40,400 just the industry that you're You're part of and the larger 509 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:43,200 capitalistic system that you participate in are going to 510 00:26:43,200 --> 00:26:45,400 ultimately take contrived. I don't know. 511 00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,900 I mean, like Nike like all these Brands like how what they tell 512 00:26:48,900 --> 00:26:53,400 us about who they are is much? I mean, people aren't like, oh, 513 00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,500 Nike is like a brand that manufacture, you know, it is 514 00:26:57,500 --> 00:27:00,300 very much like how they articulate themselves and adds 515 00:27:00,300 --> 00:27:03,300 like, I'm surprised, this is II. Don't think this is your real 516 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:07,200 view here because what they say about themselves is what people 517 00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:10,100 tend to believe. I think people either like the 518 00:27:10,100 --> 00:27:13,200 products or they don't, you know, I mean people like Amazon 519 00:27:13,200 --> 00:27:14,900 because it gets them their stuff very quickly. 520 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:16,300 Right? What seems like a reasonable 521 00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:17,900 price Facebook when they like it. 522 00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:19,900 It's because they can communicate with their friends. 523 00:27:20,300 --> 00:27:23,900 Google is like a very good tool to find the stuff that you want. 524 00:27:23,900 --> 00:27:26,800 And with YouTube, you know, an entertainment platform and then 525 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:29,400 you know, we can go on down the list. 526 00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:32,200 So yeah, I agree. I mean products terribly because 527 00:27:32,200 --> 00:27:35,300 yeah, yeah, and I don't think that necessarily needs to be oh 528 00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,400 Apple, we didn't mention mean, apple is like they make stuff. 529 00:27:38,600 --> 00:27:40,500 You'd like, like it's as physical. 530 00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:44,100 Good of any of these things and people think they work well and 531 00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:47,600 they look nice. And I don't think it necessarily 532 00:27:47,600 --> 00:27:50,500 like the fact that these things are are not connected to a 533 00:27:50,508 --> 00:27:52,700 larger Mission necessary needs to be evil. 534 00:27:52,700 --> 00:27:54,600 And and I and and like a sign of hypocrisy. 535 00:27:54,600 --> 00:27:56,600 I just think like for a reporter. 536 00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:59,700 Anytime you're covering a company, you have to, you just 537 00:27:59,700 --> 00:28:03,600 have to move outside of that particular frame pretty quickly 538 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:05,900 because it's just not that until in intelligent. 539 00:28:05,900 --> 00:28:08,700 Like, when you're talking to sources and, you know, So if 540 00:28:08,700 --> 00:28:10,100 you're covering ghoul, you're like mmm. 541 00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:12,000 That sounds like, that could be kind of easier. 542 00:28:12,100 --> 00:28:14,200 Yeah. Just just isn't isn't that 543 00:28:14,200 --> 00:28:16,200 useful? But I do think that, you know, 544 00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,400 like we were mentioning earlier episode, we're just at a period 545 00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,800 now where these companies their influence their power is never 546 00:28:23,800 --> 00:28:26,500 at a greater Point than has ever been and the implications of 547 00:28:26,500 --> 00:28:29,900 that are vast, which ties it back to Brian Armstrong's main 548 00:28:29,900 --> 00:28:32,700 problem, being he has to listen to General people on Twitter, 549 00:28:32,700 --> 00:28:34,400 right? I mean, if he was just talking 550 00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:37,300 to his customers, they would have different complaints, then 551 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:40,200 sort of them, whatever. He's probably feeling when he 552 00:28:40,200 --> 00:28:45,000 opens up his Twitter feed and so then it makes his CEOs get too 553 00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:48,500 much criticism stuff is just like, don't read it. 554 00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:51,200 If you don't want, you don't want to see it, pay somebody to 555 00:28:51,208 --> 00:28:54,500 read it and tell you what, what actually matters, you know. 556 00:28:54,500 --> 00:28:56,500 I it's amazing that our media diets. 557 00:28:56,500 --> 00:29:00,600 I guess shape our brain so much and he even the CEO of, you 558 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,100 know, this huge company is subject to that. 559 00:29:03,200 --> 00:29:07,000 So you know, we're recording this on a Sunday and the VP of 560 00:29:07,000 --> 00:29:13,300 communications at Facebook Look, Nick Clegg, former lib Dem prime 561 00:29:13,300 --> 00:29:14,100 minister. What was he? 562 00:29:14,100 --> 00:29:16,300 He was like a high-ranking, British officials embarrassing 563 00:29:16,300 --> 00:29:19,400 that I don't know the specific name, but, you know, he's making 564 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,500 the rounds and getting kind of browbeaten by anchors at all the 565 00:29:22,500 --> 00:29:25,600 major cable networks over the Facebook whistleblowers, 566 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,500 testimony, that happened last week, and I'm seeing a lot of 567 00:29:29,508 --> 00:29:32,400 complaints by reporters some reporters. 568 00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:34,300 I mean, I can mention, Kara Swisher, specifically, she has 569 00:29:34,308 --> 00:29:38,400 so many followers is very angry that he didn't. 570 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:40,700 Speak to her. And, you know, the interviews 571 00:29:40,700 --> 00:29:44,000 that Facebook is doing right now are not with the beat reporters 572 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:46,500 when I say Facebook. I mean, like, you know, zoc and 573 00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:48,900 or Nick Clegg. And people at that Echelon are 574 00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:53,100 not with the beat reporters. It's with these National cable 575 00:29:53,100 --> 00:29:55,900 news figures. I mean, do you think that's a 576 00:29:55,908 --> 00:29:59,400 valid criticism? Do you think it's important and 577 00:29:59,400 --> 00:30:00,900 why they're doing it? I'm sorry, I'm back. 578 00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,300 Sorry sorry. I've no, I understand why 579 00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:06,700 they're why they're doing it because they need to make their 580 00:30:06,700 --> 00:30:10,600 appeal to the General Public. Because they're not afraid of 581 00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,900 Regulation per se. They're afraid of people like, 582 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:15,000 you and me no longer using their products. 583 00:30:15,000 --> 00:30:16,900 They're afraid of everybody deleting WhatsApp. 584 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,300 So their appeal needs to go to the world of WhatsApp users. 585 00:30:21,300 --> 00:30:25,300 It doesn't need to go to, you know, the people who read 586 00:30:25,300 --> 00:30:29,200 business process to read Tech, press, they, whether if you're 587 00:30:29,200 --> 00:30:31,800 the I'm not saying I like the strategy and I'm not saying that 588 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,200 I think the strategy is good. I'm just saying I really 589 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:35,800 understand the logic behind it there. 590 00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:38,300 They need to appeal to your mom too. 591 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:41,800 Who hates Mark Zuckerberg right now. 592 00:30:41,800 --> 00:30:43,300 Right. And then areas non-defined 593 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:46,400 reasons so they need to go on. Good Morning America and make 594 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,600 that argument for why you don't have to hate Mark Zuckerberg. 595 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:51,900 And why the products aren't driving teenagers to kill 596 00:30:51,900 --> 00:30:55,200 themselves and making that argument to like the business 597 00:30:55,200 --> 00:30:58,100 pages of the New York Times or the Wall Street Journal is your 598 00:30:58,100 --> 00:31:01,500 mom reading that know, right. Exactly. 599 00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:03,600 Right. But it's beat reporter or like 600 00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:06,900 as Savvy instead of reporters. I do think it makes sense to 601 00:31:06,900 --> 00:31:09,400 cheer for Facebook to get Give interviews to the most 602 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,300 sophisticated reporters and and yes, they're tactically going to 603 00:31:14,300 --> 00:31:18,500 try to give it to sort of simplistic TV, reporters. 604 00:31:18,500 --> 00:31:21,500 And I don't make sense for a care of. 605 00:31:21,500 --> 00:31:23,200 This is what the rough sea report. 606 00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:25,900 I don't think it's because the teeth, they think, the TV 607 00:31:25,900 --> 00:31:27,400 reporters, don't know what they're doing. 608 00:31:27,400 --> 00:31:29,400 I think they're thinking about the audience sure. 609 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,700 Either way. It's Kara were to do the 610 00:31:31,700 --> 00:31:33,800 interview on Good Morning, America. 611 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:36,500 I think they would do the interview with Cara if Cara work 612 00:31:36,500 --> 00:31:40,600 to the interview. And you know, like a widely 613 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,100 watch platform on 60 Minutes. I think they would do it with 614 00:31:44,200 --> 00:31:46,500 her, right. But TV is a different kind of 615 00:31:46,500 --> 00:31:49,900 way I can print like print the wind, you still sort of have to 616 00:31:49,908 --> 00:31:52,400 convince her report earlier saying something smart since 617 00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:56,500 it's passing through them. Well II don't think that all TV 618 00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:58,600 is stupid. I don't I just don't agree with 619 00:31:58,600 --> 00:31:59,900 that argument. You're really think it's 620 00:31:59,900 --> 00:32:03,500 audience. I think if you want Tom's mom to 621 00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:05,900 not delete her Instagram account, you're not going to 622 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:08,300 reach her in the business pages of the New York. 623 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:12,300 Times you were you were going to reach her on 60 Minutes or 624 00:32:12,300 --> 00:32:14,700 you'll reach her on wherever the hell they've been talking. 625 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:19,700 You know, if it's a thing, it's more audience and of course, you 626 00:32:19,700 --> 00:32:21,600 know, we saw this, we said a politician. 627 00:32:21,600 --> 00:32:23,700 So funny, because I think your take on this is really different 628 00:32:23,700 --> 00:32:26,800 when politicians to the Eric but we've seen politicians do it as 629 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,300 well. In ways that infuriated me. 630 00:32:30,300 --> 00:32:32,700 Anyway, no, I always said it's good. 631 00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:36,600 I said it was good for them to do ferns but he won't sit for 632 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:38,900 the Washington Post. It's like what's Or problem 633 00:32:38,900 --> 00:32:42,600 Obama, that sucks. But like I do understand that, I 634 00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:45,800 understand why even if I deeply disagree with it. 635 00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,100 Well, I'm politics. I'm were skeptical of a lot of 636 00:32:49,100 --> 00:32:53,200 the beat reporters than on. Well, I remember getting into an 637 00:32:53,200 --> 00:33:02,500 argument about that earlier. Oh, no, sorry, yes, softball 638 00:33:02,500 --> 00:33:05,300 interview. I don't know. 639 00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:08,800 Yeah, is Ashley Parker. You think I'm doing no. 640 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,700 Is it a is? It Tony ROM, you think would 641 00:33:11,700 --> 00:33:14,900 throw those softballs they need to do you, are you telling me 642 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:17,700 that Tech reporters have a better reputation for not being 643 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:20,000 softball reporters? And political reporters are 644 00:33:20,000 --> 00:33:23,500 watching in post. I just think, you know, in a 645 00:33:23,500 --> 00:33:27,900 presidential campaign reporters want to frame the story around 646 00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:30,600 the storylines that they're like, breaking news on. 647 00:33:30,600 --> 00:33:34,100 I mean, if you saw enjoy way better student, Do this. 648 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:37,300 Right. I mean they do but you know I 649 00:33:37,308 --> 00:33:40,500 just believe in some of the criticisms of Facebook more than 650 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:43,300 I do. Sort of the angles played 651 00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:44,800 against. That's right. 652 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,800 Because you hate it. When people critique Obama has 653 00:33:47,800 --> 00:33:51,400 he worked on his campaign as an intern? 654 00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:55,600 Yeah. But I certainly I believe in 655 00:33:55,600 --> 00:34:00,400 Obama. Like yeah, I'm down here. 656 00:34:00,400 --> 00:34:03,000 Next weekend. We can give Eric work. 657 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:05,000 Evil. I want be true. 658 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:08,600 Is to get thoughtful interviews, occasionally. 659 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:11,800 I think that's good in politics and Tech. 660 00:34:11,800 --> 00:34:14,199 I believe that's important. And I think it's important that 661 00:34:14,207 --> 00:34:18,100 the institutions, whether it's a campaign or the apparatus of a 662 00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:22,500 company respond and engage with reporters, I couldn't believe in 663 00:34:22,500 --> 00:34:25,800 that more strongly, but you're just saying that it's really 664 00:34:25,800 --> 00:34:28,699 unlikely that a political reporter will get anything out. 665 00:34:28,800 --> 00:34:30,300 I just think reporting with them. 666 00:34:30,300 --> 00:34:32,800 Whereas you think that orders? Where's he think a tech reporter 667 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,900 will actually get something out of Mark Zuckerberg sitting with 668 00:34:34,900 --> 00:34:36,300 them? But you don't think that a 669 00:34:36,308 --> 00:34:40,000 political reporter will get something out of, you know, a 670 00:34:40,007 --> 00:34:43,699 politician sitting with them. I agree with. 671 00:34:43,900 --> 00:34:47,300 I think in both cases with Zuckerberg and with a 672 00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:52,900 presidential candidate there, they end up going for like your 673 00:34:52,900 --> 00:34:55,500 get trying to get bad quotes. It's very similar to TV. 674 00:34:55,600 --> 00:34:58,000 I think, what's actually more substantive in a lot of these 675 00:34:58,000 --> 00:35:02,500 cases is that like to press secretary or that the actual 676 00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:06,300 company apparatus is engaging with like the factual responses 677 00:35:06,500 --> 00:35:11,200 and it's not so much. I like a single interview that's 678 00:35:11,200 --> 00:35:14,800 like the most important as as opposed to sort of like good 679 00:35:14,800 --> 00:35:18,700 faith sort of engagement on on the factual reporting. 680 00:35:18,900 --> 00:35:20,500 I don't know you disagree with that. 681 00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,500 I just think that that undermines the argument you just 682 00:35:24,500 --> 00:35:29,100 made but I do agree with. I just do. 683 00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:33,000 I think that you're sort of the way that you distinguish me in 684 00:35:33,000 --> 00:35:34,500 the tech press in the political process. 685 00:35:34,800 --> 00:35:36,400 Doesn't really make any sense to me. 686 00:35:37,200 --> 00:35:41,300 I think that anytime you're covering a beat, there are 687 00:35:42,000 --> 00:35:44,100 questions about how you're going to approach. 688 00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:49,900 Tough Quest tough lines of inquiry but I just, I guess I 689 00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:54,900 just don't understand This distinction we make between, you 690 00:35:54,908 --> 00:35:58,600 know, this ability for a tech reporter to really get a lot out 691 00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,200 of an interview with Mark Zuckerberg, but that you just 692 00:36:01,200 --> 00:36:03,800 don't think of political reporter could get a lot out of 693 00:36:03,800 --> 00:36:07,600 my Canada but I can, I can I interject here just to ask like 694 00:36:07,600 --> 00:36:10,800 what is get a lot out of in these circumstances and 695 00:36:10,800 --> 00:36:13,100 demeaning because you know, these people are incredibly 696 00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:16,200 coach, the best you could get from them is a slip-up is is a 697 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:19,000 Mark Zuckerberg actually on Cara's podcast a couple years 698 00:36:19,000 --> 00:36:22,900 back, making a truly awful. Comparison about Lala fala good. 699 00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:25,300 I think, was on purpose. I mean, I write that was right. 700 00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:27,700 Wasn't even a slip-up that was just. 701 00:36:31,000 --> 00:36:35,400 It sounds to me, like, what is that? 702 00:36:36,400 --> 00:36:39,500 Political reporters will get played and that Tech reporters? 703 00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:43,200 No, no. I we're both getting played and 704 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:45,800 that political reporters, just go for like this sort of like 705 00:36:45,800 --> 00:36:48,500 crass, gotcha, but Tech reporters would never do that. 706 00:36:49,600 --> 00:36:51,300 Oh no, I think they both go for the crash. 707 00:36:51,300 --> 00:36:53,200 Gotcha. I think it's I don't think 708 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:55,500 there's a huge amount of value. And you know, whether it's a 709 00:36:55,508 --> 00:36:58,400 national news reporter or whatever, you know, like a TV 710 00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:01,800 anchor or morning news anchor or a tech reporter doing the 711 00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:03,500 interview with Mark Zuckerberg. I don't think there's going to 712 00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:07,500 be a lot gain from it other than whatever their coaching allows 713 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:10,100 for if they're well trained. They will say things that are 714 00:37:10,100 --> 00:37:13,000 kind of meaningless and deflect from the quote, unquote hard 715 00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:14,700 questions. And if they're not well trained, 716 00:37:14,700 --> 00:37:17,300 they'll say something stupid. That makes maybe the new cycle 717 00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:20,200 lasts for a couple days longer but I I just don't like the 718 00:37:20,200 --> 00:37:22,600 great reporting that is come out, that has held Facebook and 719 00:37:22,600 --> 00:37:25,200 all these other tech companies feet to the fire have come not 720 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:27,700 through these sort of exactly wasn't a woman. 721 00:37:27,700 --> 00:37:29,300 Run interview with Mark Zuckerberg. 722 00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:34,300 Exactly what I see people like care who I respect. 723 00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:37,300 You know and other reporters saying oh they're not giving me 724 00:37:37,300 --> 00:37:40,200 the interview I just think, okay, that's their choice 725 00:37:40,200 --> 00:37:42,000 because they're running a press campaign right now. 726 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,500 Exactly, exactly. And it's so much more from 727 00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,400 getting people leaking to you and and, and getting them all 728 00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:50,500 messed up that way. Then like Bitching and moaning 729 00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:52,200 on Twitter about the fact that you didn't get the interview. 730 00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:53,800 I don't care. I don't know if I'd call it 731 00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:55,700 bitching and moaning but I mean because I understand the 732 00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,100 frustration when it comes to campaign, reporters are much 733 00:37:58,100 --> 00:38:00,800 more skeptical. It's because a lot of with the 734 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:06,200 reporters are doing there is saying which stories matter and 735 00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:08,900 that fundamentally the Democratic process is there's no 736 00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,600 like super sophisticated version of it. 737 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,100 There's like there's what the elites thinks is important. 738 00:38:14,100 --> 00:38:16,300 There's what regular people think is important to 739 00:38:16,600 --> 00:38:20,100 participating with beat reporters on when reporting 740 00:38:20,300 --> 00:38:23,600 you're giving it up to a certain set of people to say, oh, we're 741 00:38:23,600 --> 00:38:26,400 obsessed with Hillary Clinton's emails or whatever when that's 742 00:38:26,400 --> 00:38:29,500 just their view on what storylines matter the most. 743 00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:32,300 So I'm just much less deferential to campaign 744 00:38:32,300 --> 00:38:35,100 reporters about what stories matter that I am on something 745 00:38:35,100 --> 00:38:38,400 like the justice department or Facebook, where there's a level 746 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,100 of like understanding an organization. 747 00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:44,500 The technicalities where I really do, respect the be 748 00:38:44,500 --> 00:38:46,700 reporters for really having a sophisticated View. 749 00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:49,300 And so I would like to support them and having more. 750 00:38:49,400 --> 00:38:53,100 Information to continue to develop that and I believe in 751 00:38:53,400 --> 00:38:56,400 that sort of elitism, that's my full View. 752 00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:00,800 The elitism of reporters who are very knowledgeable about their 753 00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:03,100 beats, that are not covering specific interest, like an 754 00:39:03,100 --> 00:39:06,100 academic to be but like, I can't paint. 755 00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:07,400 I just don't think you can have that. 756 00:39:07,400 --> 00:39:10,700 Like, sure, if it's like the factual matter of what's 757 00:39:10,700 --> 00:39:13,000 happening on a campaign, do I trust the campaign? 758 00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:16,400 We're, there's more to know on a personal level, but do I trust 759 00:39:16,400 --> 00:39:20,100 them more to decide that the Personnel level stuff of a 760 00:39:20,100 --> 00:39:21,700 campaign, is what we should care about most. 761 00:39:21,700 --> 00:39:25,100 Like should we have written Jimmy, Carter off more as much 762 00:39:25,100 --> 00:39:27,100 as he was because they were sort of. 763 00:39:27,100 --> 00:39:29,700 Of incompetent, or should we have cared more about sort of 764 00:39:29,800 --> 00:39:33,900 the general moral Vector of what he stood for relative to his 765 00:39:33,900 --> 00:39:36,000 opponents? Like the media is great at 766 00:39:36,000 --> 00:39:39,700 getting us to focus on weird competence stuff over the actual 767 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:42,100 moral character of political campaigns. 768 00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:45,900 And that's why I'm super - on campaign report. 769 00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,200 Yes, I think we are still torn up about the 1980. 770 00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:52,400 Carter re-election campaign I didn't see the podcast go in 771 00:39:52,400 --> 00:39:55,700 this direction, you but you were not born. 772 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:00,300 But Nikki is the only one I think was around to that cat is. 773 00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:05,600 Yeah. Yeah, no morning in America, 774 00:40:05,600 --> 00:40:08,600 with hard to hard to overcome. I think we can all agree. 775 00:40:08,600 --> 00:40:10,600 We can agree with that. Anyway. 776 00:40:10,700 --> 00:40:14,600 So we've really, really, well, I really was put on a back right 777 00:40:14,600 --> 00:40:18,600 there and I needed to sort of come up with my full full view. 778 00:40:18,700 --> 00:40:20,700 Well, I was worried that Katie when she was gonna come back 779 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:22,900 from her, call was going to tell us like we have 10 minutes 780 00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:26,900 before the nuclear subs ballistic. 781 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:29,800 Missiles. So I hate to cut the episode off 782 00:40:29,800 --> 00:40:34,200 early but your bunker is there? No, just some spies, I don't 783 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:37,800 know where we go from there. A back to the reading text 784 00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:40,800 reporters other than if you're working at a tech company and 785 00:40:40,800 --> 00:40:44,300 you reach out to a reporter and say I would like to thank you. 786 00:40:44,400 --> 00:40:46,200 Yeah. Very different reception. 787 00:40:47,100 --> 00:40:49,000 Yeah. Well we're you know, like we 788 00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,900 said last week or two weeks ago now it's like we're in the age 789 00:40:51,900 --> 00:40:54,300 of whistleblowers, you know. There was like a handbook that 790 00:40:54,300 --> 00:40:58,000 came out last week led by I think the Pinterest 791 00:40:58,000 --> 00:41:01,600 whistleblower that are trying to encourage employees, you know, 792 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,000 or instruct them on the right way to become a whistleblower, 793 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,100 you too can become a whistleblower Madam. 794 00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:10,000 And I, I I'm interested to see where that's going to go, 795 00:41:10,000 --> 00:41:13,600 because it all to me, like, rolls back into this topic that 796 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:15,000 we've been hitting on over and over again. 797 00:41:15,000 --> 00:41:18,200 The last couple of weeks, which is like whistleblowers are or 798 00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:21,700 leakers, whatever want to call them, are the results of a 799 00:41:21,700 --> 00:41:25,700 section of a Workforce that is not happy with the way the 800 00:41:25,700 --> 00:41:30,200 company is run and do not Leave internally that it can be fixed. 801 00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,100 That there are the infrastructure in place for 802 00:41:32,100 --> 00:41:34,500 these things to be repaired. And some of them may be just 803 00:41:34,500 --> 00:41:38,600 want fame, you know, we can debate that, but it seems like 804 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:42,100 the upsides of that are much less than the downside of. 805 00:41:42,400 --> 00:41:45,500 Because once you get everything, what unquote like you don't want 806 00:41:45,500 --> 00:41:48,000 to work again. So your Snowden and Russia like 807 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:50,000 it's manner or Chelsea Manning in prison. 808 00:41:50,300 --> 00:41:53,500 That's not great. I mean, I wanted to make another 809 00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:57,800 Point quickly. I mean, the just Just sort of 810 00:41:58,400 --> 00:42:03,300 how this latest Brian Armstrong tweet about, you know, the 811 00:42:03,300 --> 00:42:05,800 whining. One could come off well, in the 812 00:42:05,800 --> 00:42:08,200 future. I mean, I think like, in the few 813 00:42:08,200 --> 00:42:13,400 know, we could look back on it as just sort of Things are too - 814 00:42:13,500 --> 00:42:18,000 they're sort of Relentless, like, sort of whining about tech 815 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:22,000 companies and it's like not doing anyone any good, which I, 816 00:42:22,100 --> 00:42:24,900 I mean, with the Facebook stuff. It's like, I'm personally 817 00:42:24,900 --> 00:42:31,800 exhausted of the stories I, but the problem is that, just like 818 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:36,000 Facebook is not Democratic and so that the only way to really 819 00:42:36,000 --> 00:42:41,500 change Facebook is for such a heavy-handed Relentless Focus. 820 00:42:41,600 --> 00:42:44,000 Ice on it that then something happens. 821 00:42:44,000 --> 00:42:46,800 And it's like not enjoyable. Like to me the solution, I mean, 822 00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:48,800 I don't necessarily want companies to be Democratic. 823 00:42:48,800 --> 00:42:49,800 I don't know what the solution is. 824 00:42:49,800 --> 00:42:55,000 But the problem just in terms of like the TV show on Twitter is 825 00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,700 that these things take so long, you have to like be so 826 00:42:57,700 --> 00:43:01,000 heavy-handed about trying to change them even though like 827 00:43:01,000 --> 00:43:03,100 everybody who's in the know is like tired of hearing about 828 00:43:03,100 --> 00:43:05,600 Facebook or I don't know what your parents have a question for 829 00:43:05,600 --> 00:43:07,800 you? I mean, do you, do you think 830 00:43:07,800 --> 00:43:09,400 that given what's happening on Facebook? 831 00:43:10,900 --> 00:43:13,600 You know, venture capitalist and Boards in the future. 832 00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,700 It might be less willing to give the CEO 100% control and I could 833 00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:21,400 to how many, how many of these problems would have gone away 834 00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:23,100 already? When you say what happens, if a 835 00:43:23,100 --> 00:43:40,900 foot? Is something wrong. 836 00:43:41,000 --> 00:43:44,500 I mean, my right reason and your until we get way more back. 837 00:43:44,500 --> 00:43:46,600 Like I think the know some of the other people on the board, 838 00:43:46,600 --> 00:43:49,200 you know? But if they were the true, truly 839 00:43:49,200 --> 00:43:53,600 in control, there would be much more sort of effort, I think to 840 00:43:53,600 --> 00:43:57,000 get them personally. Accountable, if there's 841 00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:59,400 anything, we've learned from the Facebook trajectory these days, 842 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,900 is that venture capitalist can invest in a company, give total 843 00:44:01,900 --> 00:44:04,500 control to the founder. The founder can become and make 844 00:44:04,500 --> 00:44:07,000 them insanely wealthy, and then you can spend the rest of your 845 00:44:07,000 --> 00:44:08,900 time complaining on Twitter about how no one likes. 846 00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:11,100 You don't. And what went wrong in the 847 00:44:11,100 --> 00:44:15,100 process, you're like sounds like it's a pretty good trade off for 848 00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:16,800 movies, what their personal incentives are. 849 00:44:16,900 --> 00:44:22,800 I mean, that does, of course, bring us out here, okay, that 850 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:26,200 does bring us to that very fateful board meeting between. 851 00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:41,600 Yeah, the meeting is the moment. Post credit scene. 852 00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:46,400 What was it? Five years ago? 853 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:50,100 The core unsealed these messages between Mark Zuckerberg and then 854 00:44:50,100 --> 00:44:53,400 board member Mark, andreasen. Whereas, Zuckerberg was trying 855 00:44:53,400 --> 00:44:58,500 to negotiate, basically, a class of stock that would allow him to 856 00:44:58,508 --> 00:45:02,100 do both sell and make a lot of money, but retain control. 857 00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:08,200 And I think that these text messages are so so present 858 00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:12,400 because this is what allowed Zuckerberg to maintain control. 859 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,300 And And if Eric is correct and the lesson to be taken from, 860 00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:19,700 this is as a board member, you no longer have to have any 861 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:23,300 responsibilities, and you can make a lot of money by creating 862 00:45:23,300 --> 00:45:26,100 like a complete dictatorship within a company with no board 863 00:45:26,100 --> 00:45:28,100 oversight. That's horrifying. 864 00:45:28,800 --> 00:45:31,800 Marc, Andreessen is supposed to be looking out for shareholders 865 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:37,100 and extracting. Anything from Mark Zuckerberg in 866 00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:40,300 terms of negotiations over his voting control but from the 867 00:45:40,300 --> 00:45:45,800 text, it does feel like to me That and reason is clearly just 868 00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:48,500 trying to help Zuckerberg and Coach him through it. 869 00:45:48,700 --> 00:45:52,900 So, from from Business Insider, when the special committee 870 00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:55,700 approved the stock reclassification in mid-april 871 00:45:55,900 --> 00:45:59,500 Andreessen, cryptically texted Zuckerberg quote, the cat's in 872 00:45:59,500 --> 00:46:03,200 the bag and the bags in the river Zuckerberg then out, is 873 00:46:03,207 --> 00:46:06,700 that mean that cat's dead and dries and wrote mission 874 00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:11,600 accomplished and thus, the First Amendment and democracy were 875 00:46:11,607 --> 00:46:16,600 destroyed. That's what the name is created. 876 00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:20,900 So it's dead cat, right? Which is easier to say. 877 00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:24,800 Alright, I'm hearing literal would be chopped up and I think 878 00:46:24,800 --> 00:46:27,900 I've really overstayed my babysitting time of the Kelso. 879 00:46:27,900 --> 00:46:29,600 I'm probably have to lie. Sounds good. 880 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:31,200 All right. Right. 881 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:32,400 Thanks everyone. Goodbye. 882 00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:43,800 So work on Sally, goodbye. Goodbye. 883 00:46:43,800 --> 00:46:46,400 Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 884 00:46:46,400 --> 00:46:46,700 Goodbye.