1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:18,500 Welcome, welcome to the second episode of dead cat. 2 00:00:18,700 --> 00:00:23,100 I'm Eric, newcomer, the newsletter writer who named his 3 00:00:23,100 --> 00:00:27,300 newsletter after himself. I'm here with Tom, Tom, and 4 00:00:27,300 --> 00:00:29,400 Katie, Benner. You guys just want to say hello. 5 00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:33,700 Hey, Hey hey hey hey newcomer and we're here with Christina 6 00:00:33,700 --> 00:00:35,800 cacioppo. Did I get that right? 7 00:00:35,900 --> 00:00:38,000 You got that right? Thank you about our seven second 8 00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:42,200 episode and sort of I was talking to Katie, you know, who 9 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:45,300 used to cover the tech industry is now covering the justice 10 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:47,000 department. And she was like, oh, you know 11 00:00:47,000 --> 00:00:49,300 what? What are the cool startups, 12 00:00:49,300 --> 00:00:51,300 these days? And, you know, I sort of 13 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:56,100 struggled because it is sort of amazing how we write about the 14 00:00:56,100 --> 00:00:58,600 same. You know, companies over and 15 00:00:58,600 --> 00:01:00,900 over again. It's, you know, it's Will I 16 00:01:00,900 --> 00:01:04,400 still write a ton about Uber and you know stripe is still cool 17 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,100 after all these years. But then you know, I thought 18 00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:11,300 about Christina's company which you know what we talked vanta 19 00:01:11,300 --> 00:01:15,600 was clearly about to raise like a cool series a and she'd been 20 00:01:15,600 --> 00:01:20,500 very sort of withholding on taking Venture money and raised 21 00:01:20,500 --> 00:01:26,900 a 50 million dollar, quote-unquote series a a 500 22 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:29,400 million dollar valuation. So Christina. 23 00:01:29,400 --> 00:01:32,600 I mean how Tell us a little bit about that story. 24 00:01:32,600 --> 00:01:34,800 How are you? Is that really a series a round? 25 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:39,500 And what sensor, how did that? Just tells us we're a little and 26 00:01:39,500 --> 00:01:42,200 a little bit about what your company does this well, for 27 00:01:42,200 --> 00:01:45,500 sure. So, vanta automates security and 28 00:01:45,500 --> 00:01:48,900 compliance for other startups, starting with sort of, with a 29 00:01:48,900 --> 00:01:53,000 sock to certification, and Now, cover ISO, and HIPAA, and a 30 00:01:53,000 --> 00:01:55,700 whole alphabet soup of things. But basically helping other 31 00:01:55,700 --> 00:01:59,100 startups, get secure, and then demonstrate that they're secured 32 00:01:59,100 --> 00:02:01,200 other people. Often their buyers. 33 00:02:02,500 --> 00:02:05,600 So the series a / are legal documents, which is probably the 34 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:08,800 most legalese answer. I could give you, like, use the 35 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,900 first Equity round into the company, so technically yes, 36 00:02:14,100 --> 00:02:17,300 doesn't look like your standard series a even in the, you know, 37 00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:24,100 2021 tiger era but it is technically our series a, I 38 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:27,300 mean, you'd been in Venture sort of briefly what Union Square 39 00:02:27,300 --> 00:02:28,000 Ventures. Right? 40 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:33,200 But were yeah, I mean how How did that shape sort of how you 41 00:02:33,200 --> 00:02:36,300 thought about sort of building the cap table for the company? 42 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:40,800 A ton, you just kind of being exposed to some of these 43 00:02:40,800 --> 00:02:44,700 decisions and this was like a decade ago, you realize are 44 00:02:44,700 --> 00:02:47,900 really hard to change when someone's on your cap table, 45 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:51,600 it's near impossible to get them off if you ever wanted to do 46 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:55,200 that. And so they're kind of one-way 47 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,300 door decisions like in start-up parlance. 48 00:02:57,600 --> 00:03:01,400 So some of trying to be thoughtful In that sense. 49 00:03:02,300 --> 00:03:06,800 And then the other part was, I think we talked about this and 50 00:03:06,900 --> 00:03:09,500 March or whatever that was, but trying to be thoughtful about 51 00:03:09,500 --> 00:03:12,600 how, you know, money might be important to grow the business, 52 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:16,400 but it is not the point of the company and and, you know, these 53 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:19,300 can be helpful but they're not, they're not kind of the Arbiters 54 00:03:19,300 --> 00:03:20,900 of the gov Company. Success. 55 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:24,000 How much leverage did you feel like you had just with a series 56 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:27,700 a to be able to hand pick the people that you could bring onto 57 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,400 your cap table? I mean it's so interesting 58 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,500 talking to The founders who will say, I mean, you know, there's 59 00:03:32,500 --> 00:03:35,200 almost like a, I don't want to say desperation to it. 60 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:37,900 But, you know, you don't feel like you really have a ton of 61 00:03:37,900 --> 00:03:40,600 Leverage in that first round to be able to say you're in. 62 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,100 You're out and I can call the shots in a way that sets me up 63 00:03:44,100 --> 00:03:46,600 for not getting fucked over by these guys later on. 64 00:03:46,700 --> 00:03:49,400 Yeah yeah so look I mean I think if we'd raised you know whatever 65 00:03:49,400 --> 00:03:52,400 two years before at the standard like million dollars in Revenue, 66 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:55,600 we would have been like cast a wide net and get the best person 67 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:58,800 you can and like hold on to your hats whatever. 68 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:03,100 Having waited a while and having a like cash flow Breakeven 69 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:04,600 business. I was 10 million dollars in 70 00:04:04,600 --> 00:04:07,400 revenue and nearly 1,000 customers and all, you know, and 71 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:11,000 like be like oh you know, usually in a series a it does 72 00:04:11,000 --> 00:04:12,800 don't you have product Market fit, you know. 73 00:04:12,800 --> 00:04:14,900 And we don't we don't think about customer acquisition and 74 00:04:14,900 --> 00:04:17,300 then you show up in your like, I've acquired a thousand 75 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:19,300 customers that like, really good economics. 76 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:23,200 So, definitely felt you know, much more confident there. 77 00:04:23,300 --> 00:04:26,000 I will also say though, I don't know, like anything else you 78 00:04:26,008 --> 00:04:28,300 have these moments where you're like, oh I'm on top of the 79 00:04:28,308 --> 00:04:30,500 world's like I get to choose. Is everything. 80 00:04:30,500 --> 00:04:33,800 And then you know, four hours later you're like who would want 81 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,000 to fund this business? Why are we working got it right 82 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,000 into that roller? Coaster is still there. 83 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:41,400 It's just even it just divorced from reality which is, of course 84 00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:44,700 in between but to pulse and was wondering if you could talk a 85 00:04:44,700 --> 00:04:47,100 little about some of the specifics of fundraising in this 86 00:04:47,100 --> 00:04:50,500 era, particularly fundraising as a female founder. 87 00:04:50,500 --> 00:04:54,700 I I remember when I was a reporter hating hating hating 88 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:57,600 getting pitched on companies, only because the founder was 89 00:04:57,600 --> 00:05:01,800 female, which happened all the time, And it was, I found it 90 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:06,300 really offensive and terrible. That was an actual pitch that 91 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:10,800 was going out at the same time. In my colleague, Aaron Griffith. 92 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:13,600 Just wrote a story about women, trying to raise money being 93 00:05:13,600 --> 00:05:16,200 often compared to Elizabeth Holmes, the founder of their 94 00:05:16,200 --> 00:05:17,300 nose. And as we all know, there are 95 00:05:17,308 --> 00:05:22,900 knows flamed out under a lot of accusations of Fraud and 96 00:05:22,900 --> 00:05:25,900 wrongdoing, and that homes is going to be making an appearance 97 00:05:25,900 --> 00:05:28,500 in federal court soon over this disaster. 98 00:05:28,600 --> 00:05:31,800 So I was wondering If you felt that story was accurate. 99 00:05:31,800 --> 00:05:34,800 If you know there were things about raising money as of women 100 00:05:34,800 --> 00:05:37,200 that have changed from a few years ago that haven't changed 101 00:05:37,200 --> 00:05:39,800 or if people are thinking less about gender today. 102 00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:44,600 Yeah a few but I did read the article, I laughed because I 103 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:47,000 think that was the only reasonable reaction. 104 00:05:47,800 --> 00:05:50,400 I have been everything else. Would just not have been good. 105 00:05:52,700 --> 00:05:55,800 I have been jokingly compared to Elizabeth Holmes, right? 106 00:05:55,800 --> 00:05:58,900 And you're like B2B SAS security startup right? 107 00:05:58,900 --> 00:06:01,100 But it's like, oh Stan. And female entrepreneur. 108 00:06:01,100 --> 00:06:04,900 Like I know one of those and you're like, oh right? 109 00:06:04,900 --> 00:06:07,300 Anyway, moving on, that's really how it goes. 110 00:06:07,300 --> 00:06:10,900 I mean, the depth of thought that VC's have when a company 111 00:06:10,900 --> 00:06:13,600 comes in at the female founder like oh, like Elizabeth Holmes. 112 00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:15,400 Yeah. This was an especially 113 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,900 connection that they'll make this wasn't a professional VC 114 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:20,600 but like, yes, it was one of those where you're like, I'm 115 00:06:20,600 --> 00:06:22,600 glad I'm not blond, like I'm not quite sure what to say. 116 00:06:22,600 --> 00:06:26,900 Next time, eat more mature wear a turtleneck to the no I'll 117 00:06:26,900 --> 00:06:28,900 speak at a high, you know, High tone of voice. 118 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:36,200 People who naturally speak in a low tone of voice. 119 00:06:36,200 --> 00:06:38,100 Exactly. That is the way some people 120 00:06:38,100 --> 00:06:39,700 speak. I don't know, the people who 121 00:06:39,700 --> 00:06:41,800 likes like terrible acts, like they're the ones who are 122 00:06:41,800 --> 00:06:44,000 suffering here. Yeah, it's a Real Fashion. 123 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:50,200 Yeah, but jokes aside, so yeah, let me think those are like 124 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:51,900 offhand comments. That. 125 00:06:52,000 --> 00:06:54,300 I mean when one hand actually for me like they get said and 126 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:55,600 it's like I don't even know how to respond. 127 00:06:55,600 --> 00:06:58,100 So we're just going to move past that and then, you know, of 128 00:06:58,100 --> 00:07:00,800 course, several hours later you come up with Good and Starkey. 129 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:05,300 That it's much too late to use, but I don't think they're, I 130 00:07:05,308 --> 00:07:07,100 mean, they're the most striking /. 131 00:07:07,100 --> 00:07:09,800 Damning part is like, I don't think they're met with malice or 132 00:07:09,800 --> 00:07:12,900 people like art of Being, you know, like trying to find common 133 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:17,000 ground and similarity and sort of Allied over the Also may 134 00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:19,600 have, you know, defrauded, 10 million, people fact. 135 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:21,700 And like that's not something that it's nice to compare 136 00:07:21,700 --> 00:07:25,800 someone to but I don't truly don't think that's top of mind. 137 00:07:25,800 --> 00:07:30,400 I think it's just a little bit of kind of speaks to how A few 138 00:07:30,400 --> 00:07:32,400 female Founders, there still are. 139 00:07:32,600 --> 00:07:34,200 Right? Where the top of Mind One is 140 00:07:34,200 --> 00:07:38,700 someone who is now on trial for fraud and you're like, well, we 141 00:07:38,700 --> 00:07:43,000 need some more here for and so his currently he's quite old to 142 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:47,600 you know, I do wonder if a young founder coming in, you know, who 143 00:07:47,600 --> 00:07:49,100 had worked, as a venture capitalist. 144 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:51,800 Who had a resume similar to yours but who was a man? 145 00:07:52,100 --> 00:07:55,600 If in meetings somebody would say, well you really remind me 146 00:07:55,600 --> 00:07:58,000 of Brian chesky. I mean, I think old, that's 147 00:07:58,000 --> 00:07:59,800 that's wrong time. They love. 148 00:08:00,000 --> 00:08:03,100 They love you know, pattern matching Arie, I can see I'm not 149 00:08:03,100 --> 00:08:07,000 defending it anyway but it's such a yeah they can't help 150 00:08:07,000 --> 00:08:09,600 themselves would say, oh, you fit the profile of this and then 151 00:08:09,600 --> 00:08:12,000 when but if that's the only pattern matching you can do, it 152 00:08:12,000 --> 00:08:13,900 means you do not know enough women. 153 00:08:14,100 --> 00:08:16,300 If the only running you know, is Elizabeth Holmes? 154 00:08:17,300 --> 00:08:20,000 I think there's some of that I think so. 155 00:08:20,000 --> 00:08:24,500 Fundraising this time, I mean, it is really different. 156 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:27,800 Some of it was business results and some of it just was all over 157 00:08:27,800 --> 00:08:30,800 exhume, right? I did this then, Kind of early 158 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,000 2021. And so everyone was said, on 159 00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:40,100 zoom, and I mean one effect of it at just sped everything up 160 00:08:40,100 --> 00:08:42,600 and I'm not, you know what I saw, you know the industry saw 161 00:08:42,799 --> 00:08:46,100 but there was just, it sort of turned everything into the days 162 00:08:46,100 --> 00:08:49,600 after iyc demo day, we sort of know the company is like running 163 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,200 around and having 47 meetings a day, right? 164 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:54,600 Like that became everybody's financing process because he 165 00:08:54,600 --> 00:08:57,700 could just sit on Zoom for 14 hours straight and they didn't 166 00:08:57,700 --> 00:08:59,800 have to like drive down this anthill and schedule. 167 00:09:00,100 --> 00:09:05,000 Admin and like oh the person, you know, whatever and that just 168 00:09:05,000 --> 00:09:07,300 sped everything up hugely because you could credibly say, 169 00:09:07,300 --> 00:09:10,200 like hi I'm having meetings from this day to this day. 170 00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:12,900 I'm looking forward to term sheets on this day and I'll make 171 00:09:12,900 --> 00:09:16,400 a decision by this and people would be like, oh there, that's 172 00:09:16,400 --> 00:09:17,800 probably true. So we have to follow the 173 00:09:17,800 --> 00:09:21,800 timeline which again, and I like non Zoom world people to be 174 00:09:21,800 --> 00:09:24,500 like, oh it's going to slip you know like oh she really going to 175 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:27,100 fly out to New York and back you know, blah blah blah blah blah. 176 00:09:28,000 --> 00:09:29,800 So just because it better, was it easier? 177 00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:32,000 To raise money over resume, totally. 178 00:09:32,100 --> 00:09:36,800 Yeah, nine thousand percent. Yeah, what specifically about 179 00:09:36,800 --> 00:09:37,800 it? I mean, obviously you can 180 00:09:37,800 --> 00:09:39,900 probably knock out more meetings and day because you don't have 181 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:42,600 to, you know, slap your ass up around Sand Hill Road. 182 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,800 But like, is there anything specific to the dynamic there 183 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:49,700 that you think is, you know, could foundationally different 184 00:09:49,700 --> 00:09:52,800 to how it was done previously, especially as a VC and like 185 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:54,000 having these people come in and Pitch? 186 00:09:54,000 --> 00:09:54,700 You. Yeah. 187 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:56,500 And I mean, that power Dynamic, right? 188 00:09:56,500 --> 00:09:58,800 Because like as an entrepreneur and we would do like you'd come 189 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:00,600 in and they try to be like oh where do I sit. 190 00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:02,700 And then they sort of like sit at the end of your chair and be 191 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:06,100 my like all the PCP Like sitting in their normal chairs, like 192 00:10:06,800 --> 00:10:08,900 taking up a lot of space on their chairs, just because 193 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:13,200 that's your chair, you know. Be like you have your, like 194 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,300 glass of water that you're like, balancing your laptop with and 195 00:10:16,300 --> 00:10:18,400 then you like don't know if you can put the water on the table, 196 00:10:18,400 --> 00:10:20,200 you know? Just like all of that nonsense, 197 00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:22,700 right? Or like unfamiliar environment, 198 00:10:22,700 --> 00:10:24,000 like what if I spill my water around here? 199 00:10:24,000 --> 00:10:26,700 Nice carpet. Yeah, better for the PCS though. 200 00:10:26,700 --> 00:10:27,800 I mean, don't they appreciate that? 201 00:10:27,800 --> 00:10:31,800 Sort of power Dynamic, don't really put you at unease and I 202 00:10:31,808 --> 00:10:34,100 know like from covering the, the entertainment industry. 203 00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:36,600 Three, and maybe another episode, I can share my story of 204 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:40,100 like meeting with a very high level agent, who played all 205 00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:42,500 kinds of bullshit power games with me, making me sit in 206 00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:44,500 different shares through, humiliate me. 207 00:10:44,500 --> 00:10:46,900 And I'm not saying these do that intentionally but like, you 208 00:10:46,908 --> 00:10:49,200 know, part of the Mystique of being a venture capitalist is 209 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:51,100 that they're in charge and like them. 210 00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:52,600 Owning the room is probably a part of that. 211 00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:56,400 No, I think it like maybe somewhat like unintentionally, 212 00:10:56,400 --> 00:10:58,400 but like, they don't, you know, it's just part of life, right? 213 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:00,000 It's not really thought that through. 214 00:11:00,900 --> 00:11:03,600 There was one firm in New York that shall remain nameless that. 215 00:11:03,600 --> 00:11:07,800 I remember a Go going into like I was a PC associate met. 216 00:11:07,800 --> 00:11:10,500 Another VC associate. It's like, oh, let's go into 217 00:11:10,500 --> 00:11:13,100 this room where we meet entrepreneurs, literally a desk 218 00:11:13,100 --> 00:11:16,500 with two chairs and one was like a giant, you know, like leather 219 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:18,500 worked are the other was like a folding chair. 220 00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,400 Cool, right. Never coming back here. 221 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:29,800 I'm curious. Your, I mean, your experience 222 00:11:29,800 --> 00:11:32,700 with the media so far. I mean, I sort of talked about, 223 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:36,500 you know, the glut of of just a tension on these same Brands. 224 00:11:36,500 --> 00:11:39,800 I'm curious how you experience that, or what your experience of 225 00:11:39,800 --> 00:11:42,300 sort of, like, working with the Press has been so far. 226 00:11:42,500 --> 00:11:45,700 Yeah, it's interesting. I think the primary. 227 00:11:45,700 --> 00:11:48,400 So, we did. We kind of did some presser on 228 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,100 the financing and y'all know this better than I do. 229 00:11:51,100 --> 00:11:54,400 But just being like, hi. We have some numbers to share 230 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,300 and you know big beefy for like, would you like to write about 231 00:11:57,300 --> 00:11:59,900 that? I think since it's been 232 00:12:00,300 --> 00:12:04,900 interesting and that you know, my perspective Go out and say, 233 00:12:04,900 --> 00:12:06,800 hey the ant is launching this new product. 234 00:12:07,600 --> 00:12:09,900 That happens to be a security or compliance product. 235 00:12:10,000 --> 00:12:13,100 So it's not something that we find Tech reporters. 236 00:12:13,100 --> 00:12:17,900 Super enthralled about writing about getting some funny looks 237 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:22,500 hip. I don't know what you do love 238 00:12:22,500 --> 00:12:25,800 hip-hop, who's joke that even in Bloomberg, we never wrote about 239 00:12:25,800 --> 00:12:27,700 companies. Proportional to the market cap, 240 00:12:27,700 --> 00:12:29,300 right? Even the most business, you have 241 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:31,600 business places the amount of money. 242 00:12:31,600 --> 00:12:34,600 It generates, they don't, they don't necessarily Were it that 243 00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:36,200 way? It needs to be a good story. 244 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,100 Yeah. And I mean, the feedback I've 245 00:12:38,100 --> 00:12:40,900 gotten a little bit is like, oh, well, why don't you go tell your 246 00:12:40,900 --> 00:12:42,600 story. Christina and sort of looping 247 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,300 back to the female founder piece like, oh, you know, why don't? 248 00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:47,000 I don't do no one actually ask this. 249 00:12:47,000 --> 00:12:49,700 But like, what about this female founder profiles from three 250 00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:53,000 years ago and you're sort of like, what about that? 251 00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,500 You know, that feels like a little bit of a Minefield but 252 00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:59,600 generously, I mean, you kind of gestured to the fact that a lot 253 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,600 of those female founder profiles didn't turn out well in the end 254 00:13:02,600 --> 00:13:07,300 because it The ark was, they Rose very high and then they 255 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:11,400 came down really hard. So, you know, do you feel like 256 00:13:11,400 --> 00:13:14,600 that was something that was unique to those profiles? 257 00:13:14,600 --> 00:13:18,100 Or do you feel like that is something that goes hand in 258 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:21,000 glove with whenever there's a lot of hype around the personal 259 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:25,900 story of a founder? I mean, I think, yeah, a lot of 260 00:13:25,900 --> 00:13:29,000 I do feel a little bit like, inviting hyper on the personal 261 00:13:29,000 --> 00:13:31,900 story and to some extent making the story about in my case 262 00:13:31,900 --> 00:13:36,100 myself and not the company is sort of like inviting bad things 263 00:13:36,100 --> 00:13:38,300 to happen in the future. Like it is just not, you know, 264 00:13:38,300 --> 00:13:40,400 not something, we've done, not something I'm excited about 265 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:44,900 doing at all. Yeah, it's sort of like you're 266 00:13:44,900 --> 00:13:48,100 just kind of asking for the subsequent wave of. 267 00:13:48,100 --> 00:13:50,100 You know, here's all the terrible broken things at the 268 00:13:50,108 --> 00:13:56,100 company and I think kind of thinking about the stories like 269 00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:57,800 that, that have been written about some of these companies. 270 00:13:57,800 --> 00:13:59,800 There were some terrible, broken things at them. 271 00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:04,800 I think the the next question is like, is that how true was that 272 00:14:04,800 --> 00:14:07,500 of, you know, other other quickly growing growth, stage 273 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:11,600 companies, were these actually outliers not to say the things 274 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,700 that were happening were good or to condone them or anything like 275 00:14:13,700 --> 00:14:15,400 that. But I think that's just like a 276 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,600 wider awareness of how isolated or not some of these behaviors 277 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:22,300 may have been what sticks out to me on this. 278 00:14:22,300 --> 00:14:24,400 I'd be interested in Thoughts. Here is that a lot of these 279 00:14:24,400 --> 00:14:27,700 stories about female founded companies that end up, you know? 280 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,500 Going the other direction is that is very you. 281 00:14:32,500 --> 00:14:34,400 The Mystic of you there. Yeah. 282 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,800 Is that they line up spectacularly, right? 283 00:14:37,800 --> 00:14:39,800 Yes, it but also like very personally, right? 284 00:14:39,800 --> 00:14:42,800 There's always like an extreme personal element to do stories 285 00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,600 that drives the narrative. It's like this person was a 286 00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:47,700 maniac. This person was a slack 287 00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:52,300 terrorists and they were, you know, getting into fights with 288 00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:56,300 co-founders or it just seems like it's less about, you know, 289 00:14:56,300 --> 00:14:58,500 this business maybe wasn't very well-run. 290 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,500 Or, you know, at the fundamentals were week. 291 00:15:00,500 --> 00:15:02,800 It's like, no, they were an asshole. 292 00:15:03,100 --> 00:15:04,800 And but, I mean, that's good storytelling. 293 00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:06,900 That's what we were just saying about Parker though, how people 294 00:15:06,900 --> 00:15:10,700 love the condoms in the stairwells, you know not the 295 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,900 actually the revenues of lipped you do are weighed out and 296 00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:16,500 beaten the Parker case. I mean that was like you know, 297 00:15:16,600 --> 00:15:19,900 there was allegations of flouting, you know, Insurance 298 00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:23,000 rules and stuff is totally incompetent. 299 00:15:25,500 --> 00:15:29,400 All right, it was personal, did you ask if a man is accused of 300 00:15:29,400 --> 00:15:31,400 being an asshole of that really a criticism? 301 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,400 But if a man is accused of being incompetent, that is a real 302 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:35,200 criticism. And if a woman comes to being an 303 00:15:35,200 --> 00:15:38,100 asshole, I mean, one of the reasons why Christine Quinn did 304 00:15:38,100 --> 00:15:40,800 not become mayor of New York is because there was a big story 305 00:15:40,800 --> 00:15:45,400 saying she was a jerk and what's so crazy about that is that one 306 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:47,700 could argue, she might have been a better measure than Bill de 307 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:56,000 Blasio very controversial. Do you feel that at all? 308 00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:58,800 I mean, you know, I guess you're you run a great company and this 309 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,500 will never happen to you. But definitely this is the 310 00:16:01,500 --> 00:16:04,500 stories that get written seem to be so much more personal. 311 00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:06,800 And I guess, you know, there's a smaller number to pull from 312 00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:09,300 because they're just fewer companies that do have female 313 00:16:09,300 --> 00:16:13,800 Founders, but I just think it's a journalist its glaring to me. 314 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:18,800 Yeah, I mean, I think, you know, you can well as someone, someone 315 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:20,100 actually shouldn't do this because it'll probably be 316 00:16:20,100 --> 00:16:22,300 depressing, but like, if you go back and look at like, at the 317 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:25,200 coverage of Facebook, The 2000s, right? 318 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,900 Like there's a lot of like, management turnover but I think 319 00:16:27,900 --> 00:16:30,700 a lot of those stories ended up being like they didn't align or 320 00:16:30,700 --> 00:16:33,500 I mean co-founder turn over whatever but it was a lot like, 321 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:35,900 oh well they didn't get in line with sucks vision and so they 322 00:16:35,900 --> 00:16:39,400 were out clearly because that's what you would do, right? 323 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:42,100 Where that's not how we write about, I don't know, outdoor 324 00:16:42,100 --> 00:16:44,500 voices or whomever, right? It's like this founder of the 325 00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,100 Tyrant and needs to, you know, be removed. 326 00:16:47,100 --> 00:16:50,700 I mean I do think it's just this complicated consumer Brands 327 00:16:50,700 --> 00:16:52,500 helped fuel. It, there are a lot of prominent 328 00:16:52,500 --> 00:16:56,100 female lead Were brand companies but also the whole female 329 00:16:56,100 --> 00:16:59,500 founder sort of persona issue the Katie talk about. 330 00:16:59,500 --> 00:17:02,700 So, yeah, it's hard to like separate. 331 00:17:04,300 --> 00:17:08,300 The companies themselves were selling an image of a certain 332 00:17:08,300 --> 00:17:13,500 kind of person, which is also very tricky, you know, so if in 333 00:17:13,500 --> 00:17:16,099 your branding and your marketing for your project, you're 334 00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:23,700 celebrating a, you know, this 21st century woman who is You 335 00:17:23,700 --> 00:17:30,900 know, socially conscious and values, equality and values, 336 00:17:31,000 --> 00:17:34,300 respect for others. And then the personality, the 337 00:17:34,300 --> 00:17:36,200 founder seems to run counter to that. 338 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:40,300 That's also an added layer of complication that you probably 339 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:45,300 aren't going to have. If your company is making You 340 00:17:45,300 --> 00:17:53,100 know if your compliance Enterprises or it won't be such 341 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:56,800 a hypocrite, she said that everybody who used her software 342 00:17:56,800 --> 00:18:00,600 was going to run around in size to leggings and look hot while 343 00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:03,400 also fighting for equality and look what happened. 344 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,800 I mean as I like it just sort of a different know I wish I was 345 00:18:07,800 --> 00:18:11,200 not your I pitch it sort of glassy I felt like I did. 346 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:13,300 I'm not that person. I just I just follow her on 347 00:18:13,300 --> 00:18:16,600 Instagram. By the way, I love Emily Weiss 348 00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,900 and everything better. This is a true actually 349 00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:21,300 financing story. There was one term sheet. 350 00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:24,600 I negotiated while wearing a glossy a sweatshirt, no one else 351 00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,800 cared but I was so perfect. I think what I love is that I 352 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:31,600 read the gloss for so long before she started glossy a. 353 00:18:32,200 --> 00:18:34,300 I just I loved everything about that block. 354 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:38,400 I don't wear any makeup. I don't really own anything but 355 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:41,800 I really liked her blog and she understands the media really 356 00:18:41,800 --> 00:18:44,200 well. She understands like, why 357 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,100 consumers Like products sort of this idea. 358 00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:50,100 They provide magic. And so, you know, she I just 359 00:18:50,100 --> 00:18:51,200 thought it was. That was very cool. 360 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:54,500 So if somebody writes a glossy a takedown story, I'm going to be 361 00:18:54,500 --> 00:18:58,600 real sad, real sad. Like, what do you do you think 362 00:18:58,600 --> 00:19:02,400 there's any benefit than to? I mean again you run a company 363 00:19:02,400 --> 00:19:05,400 that has a solid business. I don't really know what value 364 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:09,200 there is to, you know, spending a ton of time pitching media on 365 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,000 on more publicity on your company other than maybe, you 366 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:13,700 know, getting more customers or something. 367 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:16,900 But Crude ain't right? Yeah, these are kind of the 368 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:19,700 things we sell to startups. And so there is just a bit of 369 00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:22,600 like, how do you? I mean, we like to take a very 370 00:19:22,600 --> 00:19:25,000 large and if anyone's listening it we're very large and 371 00:19:25,000 --> 00:19:26,500 competent. But no, like kind of like 372 00:19:26,500 --> 00:19:29,400 playing bigger than we are and like, aren't we mentioned in the 373 00:19:29,400 --> 00:19:31,500 same sentence? As, you know, Uber, even though 374 00:19:31,500 --> 00:19:33,800 you're like cuz kind of hilarious and ridiculous. 375 00:19:33,800 --> 00:19:34,800 Right. Anyway. 376 00:19:34,800 --> 00:19:38,200 So there's like, I mean, that part of like, the Silicon Valley 377 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:44,100 play bigger pieces is it's real cause it does matter so much 378 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:46,300 whether or not it should. It definitely does. 379 00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:49,600 They're recruiting piece. I am here is just quickly, I 380 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,600 know, you know, on that. I mean, it's always so front of 381 00:19:52,608 --> 00:19:57,200 mind for Founders and just what the environment is right now, 382 00:19:57,300 --> 00:19:59,800 when you're trying to hire people and there are so many 383 00:19:59,800 --> 00:20:02,700 companies with such high valuations and what that 384 00:20:02,700 --> 00:20:06,600 experience has been, it's clearly like it's a new normal. 385 00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:09,400 I mean, I think all the reasons that like the rapid financing 386 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,100 are great for entrepreneurs. They're also great for people 387 00:20:13,100 --> 00:20:15,800 for job Searchers, right? Because you can have 14 388 00:20:15,800 --> 00:20:18,600 interviews a day and you can get your offers in three days and 389 00:20:18,600 --> 00:20:20,500 then you're, you know, you can bake off companies. 390 00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:25,100 However, you want, and like, it's all true and like, as much 391 00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:27,600 as it, you know, not super helpful to Fanta, like candidate 392 00:20:27,600 --> 00:20:32,300 should do that, and I think that it's their new it. 393 00:20:32,308 --> 00:20:35,000 So there's that Dynamic like the Zoom Zoom speed, things up 394 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:38,100 Dynamic applies in recruiting. The other dynamic as you know, 395 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:40,600 everyone is Tiger funded and a unicorn. 396 00:20:40,600 --> 00:20:45,100 And so it is harder to stand out even if you're like No we 397 00:20:45,100 --> 00:20:49,400 actually have a good business like we're the real ones and 398 00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:52,400 there's a sense they chase high valuations or how much do you 399 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:54,600 think that's true? I mean we're there. 400 00:20:55,100 --> 00:20:57,400 Yeah I mean I think we talked about this with Parker. 401 00:20:57,400 --> 00:21:01,500 I mean just assessing comp based on the valuation times their 402 00:21:01,500 --> 00:21:05,900 shares versus yeah. The potential upside I guess. 403 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:07,700 Yeah. I think it's very true. 404 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:11,100 I mean I was I am you know kind of to this day staunchly like 405 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,000 you know, bant has the same company. 406 00:21:13,000 --> 00:21:15,500 I mean yesterday and today, the day before For this cookware, 407 00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:19,700 for your dancing and the day after like and candidates, do 408 00:21:19,708 --> 00:21:21,700 not see that this way. Like, recruiting got 409 00:21:21,700 --> 00:21:24,600 incrementally, you do to us after that round same company, 410 00:21:25,000 --> 00:21:28,000 but it matters and so like, I'm just pulling that forward. 411 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,100 You're like, what? A billion dollars matter like 412 00:21:30,300 --> 00:21:32,600 probably. Do I hate that. 413 00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:34,500 Yeah, definitely. Just, I'm sorry. 414 00:21:34,500 --> 00:21:37,700 Just just having the Sequoia like imprimatur on the business 415 00:21:37,700 --> 00:21:39,300 made recruiting easier. Yep. 416 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:43,500 More more inbound candidates and incrementally easier to close 417 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,300 because they felt like it was a More Direct business because 418 00:21:47,300 --> 00:21:50,700 they felt that there was support support from a firm that they 419 00:21:51,500 --> 00:21:54,400 believed would be there when times got rough support from us. 420 00:21:54,400 --> 00:21:56,200 And that's one of the, that's one of the fascinating things 421 00:21:56,200 --> 00:22:01,100 because the idea of the role that VCS play, you know, when we 422 00:22:01,100 --> 00:22:03,800 spoke with Parker last week, he very much put forward the thesis 423 00:22:03,800 --> 00:22:05,800 that when times are good VC's are there for you. 424 00:22:05,800 --> 00:22:08,500 When times are bad, they kick you out, obviously that comes 425 00:22:08,500 --> 00:22:12,500 from a very personal experience, but it is interesting that for 426 00:22:12,500 --> 00:22:17,400 prospective job candidate. They would see VC uses this on 427 00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:20,000 balanced force for good. Oh yeah. 428 00:22:20,100 --> 00:22:23,200 The kingmakers. They've the Magic Touch. 429 00:22:24,200 --> 00:22:28,600 I wanted to get to vent a little bit and sort of the business and 430 00:22:28,600 --> 00:22:33,200 understanding it. Well, I guess you'll give your 431 00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:36,200 22nd description better than I will. 432 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,300 So will you just quickly sort of describe the business as is 433 00:22:39,300 --> 00:22:41,400 today? I guess that's your first 30 434 00:22:41,400 --> 00:22:45,500 seconds and then sort of the broader aspirations of it. 435 00:22:45,500 --> 00:22:47,300 Just so we have that for. Yeah, for sure. 436 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,000 So today we work with generally startups, helping them, and 437 00:22:51,000 --> 00:22:54,200 generally be to be ABS. So some tool they're selling to 438 00:22:54,208 --> 00:22:58,200 other businesses as some part of that sales process they get 439 00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,700 asked like hey are you secure? If we give you a bunch of data, 440 00:23:00,700 --> 00:23:02,100 you going to leak it on the internet. 441 00:23:02,900 --> 00:23:05,800 So we help those businesses kind of shore up their security 442 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,700 initially and then get some sort of compliance certification, 443 00:23:09,700 --> 00:23:13,100 probably a sock to that sort of says yes someone looked at us we 444 00:23:13,100 --> 00:23:16,700 are reasonably secure. You can buy us in the incentive 445 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:21,000 is basically because there Customers will want them to have 446 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:25,000 this and so in pitching, big customers you're giving them 447 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,900 this signal? Yes, exactly. 448 00:23:26,900 --> 00:23:29,500 So, like the big customer is going to say, Hey, you know, 449 00:23:29,500 --> 00:23:33,800 love your product, but, you know, you're ten people, you 450 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,900 know, on a couch. Basically, how can we trust you 451 00:23:37,600 --> 00:23:39,000 enter your? Like, I've gone through this 452 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:40,800 process, I had someone look at all these things. 453 00:23:40,800 --> 00:23:44,900 They wrote up this long report like we're very reasonable over 454 00:23:44,900 --> 00:23:47,500 here. Couch, you could trust us but 455 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:51,700 then the long ERM the goal is to come up with your own standard, 456 00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:55,400 or what can you say about it? I mean, it's not like, I don't 457 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:57,700 know. Sock to doesn't sound like most 458 00:23:57,700 --> 00:24:01,200 thought through standard ever not being an expert in it or 459 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,200 yes, suck to his incredible product Market fit. 460 00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:08,800 I can say that I'm going to just use by Everman. 461 00:24:08,900 --> 00:24:11,400 Everyone else about it, right? And including people who don't 462 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:14,400 kind of know precisely what it is but it sort of doesn't 463 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,200 matter, it is just like the imprimatur of the first way you 464 00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:18,800 say like I'm Baseline reasonable. 465 00:24:19,800 --> 00:24:23,100 So yeah, one thing we think a lot about is, you know, there's 466 00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:25,400 some good parts and some less all three parts. 467 00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:28,600 Like how can we kind of work with Security leaders to design 468 00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:32,100 something that actually thinks about you know, the true 469 00:24:32,100 --> 00:24:35,200 security and a 2021 sense and all that it takes to keep a 470 00:24:35,200 --> 00:24:39,700 company secure in 2021 and applies that on a continuous 471 00:24:39,700 --> 00:24:41,500 basis to that. The other thing about these 472 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:44,900 reports is our sort of done point in time, someone comes in 473 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:48,200 last, like, on Tuesday asks you a bunch of questions, write the 474 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:51,500 report you're Good for a year and that's not how software 475 00:24:51,500 --> 00:24:54,900 works. So, we're working on that. 476 00:24:54,900 --> 00:24:57,700 What would incentivize companies to want to participate in a 477 00:24:57,700 --> 00:25:00,500 harder standard early? Why would the market ever 478 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,300 incentivize? You know, business has to be 479 00:25:03,300 --> 00:25:06,300 sort of self-regulating and that way without the government, 480 00:25:06,300 --> 00:25:08,700 requiring it, yes, to sort of twofold. 481 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:13,500 I think the boogeyman answer which is I think the less strong 482 00:25:13,500 --> 00:25:16,400 one is like at some point the government will care. 483 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,000 And so can the industry sort of get it to act? 484 00:25:19,200 --> 00:25:22,500 Gather ahead of time. So this happened with credit 485 00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:26,400 cards like PCI DSS, if those letters sound Vaguely Familiar, 486 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:29,500 vaguely, vaguely. Basically they came out of like 487 00:25:29,500 --> 00:25:31,800 early credit cards. The banks were male and credit 488 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:34,000 like five credit cards to everyone, no matter who they 489 00:25:34,000 --> 00:25:36,900 were some point. The government was like this is 490 00:25:36,900 --> 00:25:38,700 extending this much credit to everyone. 491 00:25:38,700 --> 00:25:41,000 Willy-nilly is probably not what you want to be doing. 492 00:25:41,500 --> 00:25:44,300 If you guys don't fix this, we're going to come in anyway so 493 00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:45,700 that kind of got that ball rolling. 494 00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:49,300 This first bit, I think when we think about like the B 495 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:52,200 administration's priorities software security, force a 496 00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:54,700 offenders, as, you know, probably probably below the cut 497 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:59,900 line currently at least to say, I think the better answer really 498 00:25:59,900 --> 00:26:05,000 is because the customers get hurt, right? 499 00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,800 So, like if declares his like totally hypothetical but like, 500 00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:17,700 you know, if it's a good example in the Sony hack it's like so 501 00:26:17,700 --> 00:26:20,500 nice, you know. Doc's gets breached. 502 00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:23,200 Its the headline might be Sony gets breached, the headline. 503 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:26,300 Might be Google gets breached and either way it's a bad look 504 00:26:26,300 --> 00:26:29,100 for both of them and so they're actually kind of 505 00:26:29,100 --> 00:26:32,400 organizationally pretty incented to make sure like those 506 00:26:32,400 --> 00:26:35,800 headlines. Don't get written and so when 507 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:38,900 you know schmancy industry terms this is like third-party risk 508 00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:42,300 management. But it's basically just when you 509 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:45,500 use software if it gets breached it looks like you get breached. 510 00:26:45,700 --> 00:26:48,300 No one wants that headline? How do you make sure it doesn't 511 00:26:48,300 --> 00:26:50,700 happen. Have you been able to come up 512 00:26:50,700 --> 00:26:53,500 with ways to get around the media for things like 513 00:26:53,500 --> 00:26:55,800 recruiting? You know, so it in a world where 514 00:26:57,000 --> 00:27:04,300 the media is not the best fit in some ways for you to tell your 515 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:06,500 story. You know what other tools you 516 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:08,900 have at your disposal? When it comes to recruiting, 517 00:27:08,900 --> 00:27:11,600 when it comes to raising awareness, customer acquisition, 518 00:27:11,600 --> 00:27:13,000 doesn't seem to be a problem for you at all. 519 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,000 You certainly don't need. I don't, I don't think that a 520 00:27:15,000 --> 00:27:16,300 bit. I don't think that, in your 521 00:27:16,300 --> 00:27:20,800 cover. Everybody wants more customers. 522 00:27:20,800 --> 00:27:24,600 Everybody wants more customers. It's true to everyone's more 523 00:27:24,600 --> 00:27:26,400 customers, but you know, it's there. 524 00:27:26,800 --> 00:27:28,300 The Wall Street Journal is probably better than the New 525 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:30,400 York Times in some ways, if that's what you're looking for. 526 00:27:30,400 --> 00:27:33,700 I should though the New York Times is wonderful for so many 527 00:27:33,700 --> 00:27:37,500 other things, you know. So what other tools do you have? 528 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:41,000 Other than the media? Yeah, I mean media Jason but I 529 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,800 think just the last few years the rise of subject and podcasts 530 00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:46,900 and like I'm, you know, talking to study, right? 531 00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:50,400 But like truly are, it feels Is different than the media. 532 00:27:51,200 --> 00:27:53,400 Some of them are certainly friendlier. 533 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:57,300 Like we sort of did this of like where did the glowing founder 534 00:27:57,300 --> 00:28:00,100 profiles from the media, five years ago? 535 00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:01,500 Go. And like now their podcast 536 00:28:01,500 --> 00:28:05,700 interviews. And so I think we're, you know, 537 00:28:05,700 --> 00:28:10,000 like paint like promoted some paid for some Stacks but I think 538 00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:16,400 those are real and you know will just get bigger what else? 539 00:28:16,900 --> 00:28:20,200 I mean there's like the recruiting stuff is Always a 540 00:28:20,208 --> 00:28:25,100 slog, right? And so that's actually a place 541 00:28:25,100 --> 00:28:27,800 where I think the best companies figure out word of mouth with 542 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:30,200 recruiting, which is just a say, have employees recruit other 543 00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:34,300 employees and that's sort of the only thing, did you buy the 544 00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:37,500 argument that bubbles up from time to time, that there is a 545 00:28:37,500 --> 00:28:41,900 real option for Founder's to completely obviate the media and 546 00:28:41,900 --> 00:28:45,100 just go through whether it's podcasts or I don't know. 547 00:28:45,108 --> 00:28:48,400 Cool retweets from from guys, with 100,000 followers music, a 548 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:53,000 boat's, It's promoting the company and there is like kind 549 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,900 of an internal less public facing Network that you could 550 00:28:55,900 --> 00:28:57,400 use. That just doesn't require you to 551 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,900 waste your time with idiots like us. 552 00:28:59,700 --> 00:29:05,500 You're telling me to channel my inner Elon, Yuan Bao zhi, you 553 00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:08,300 know, any of the guys who decided to make it their life's 554 00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:12,300 calling to, I don't know, make the media irrelevant. 555 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:17,600 Yeah, I mean less Fair like anti-media screeds but more just 556 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:19,700 the reach. Those people have like I do 557 00:29:19,700 --> 00:29:23,300 actually think there's something there and like I wish I were 558 00:29:23,300 --> 00:29:26,000 better at Twitter that I am like actually think it would help 559 00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:30,100 Santa you know I do actually think there is something real 560 00:29:30,100 --> 00:29:32,500 there, I think most people don't do. 561 00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:36,200 Well, or don't do it but yeah, the people who do it. 562 00:29:36,200 --> 00:29:39,900 Well, actually have a Founder friend, I'm Judd Mossad from 563 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:41,600 replicate, he's actually really good at this. 564 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,500 He's quieted down a little bit in the last few months but he's 565 00:29:44,500 --> 00:29:49,800 really good at this like he he can he can like everything is 566 00:29:49,800 --> 00:29:54,600 about the company but it is funny and fun and like clearly 567 00:29:54,600 --> 00:29:58,800 at the sense of humor and just totally and you think that that 568 00:29:58,800 --> 00:30:01,000 helps him with recruiting I mean there's a direct connection 569 00:30:01,000 --> 00:30:02,500 between that and interesting. Yeah. 570 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:08,500 Yeah, you had 55 employees when we spoke, how many do you have 571 00:30:08,500 --> 00:30:11,300 now? 110 house managing that? 572 00:30:13,500 --> 00:30:16,100 Well, I've never seen them all in person, so, you know, still 573 00:30:16,100 --> 00:30:19,100 TVD we're planning for that, but it hasn't happened yet so I 574 00:30:19,100 --> 00:30:23,900 don't know if they all exist. No, every day is a new every 575 00:30:23,900 --> 00:30:24,500 week. There's a new week. 576 00:30:24,500 --> 00:30:27,800 Advanta promotes a good reasons. If you're growing this quickly, 577 00:30:28,200 --> 00:30:31,500 every week is a new week you could probably I would say get 5 578 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:33,800 to 10 new employees. Out of this podcast interview, 579 00:30:35,400 --> 00:30:38,500 you know, people come in and say like, oh, you heard you on this 580 00:30:38,500 --> 00:30:40,200 podcast, blah, blah, blah. Yeah. 581 00:30:40,200 --> 00:30:43,400 If you apply for a job advancing, use a promo code dead 582 00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:51,700 cat. Yeah, that's fine. 583 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:54,100 Yeah, we get them to actually get like a small we'd like a 584 00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:57,900 lamb to school situation of avidya and shared. 585 00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:00,700 What do they call those shared Revenue in shared income 586 00:31:00,700 --> 00:31:03,500 agreements. Yeah, Yeah, we gotta get one of 587 00:31:03,508 --> 00:31:05,300 those set up. That sounds like a great deal. 588 00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:08,000 Cool, thanks so much. Thanks Christina. 589 00:31:23,100 --> 00:31:25,700 So goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 590 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:27,700 Goodbye, goodbye. Goodbye. 591 00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:04,100 Yeah, we gotta get one of those set up. 592 00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:07,100 That sounds like a great deal. Cool, thanks so much. 593 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:25,100 Thanks Christina. So goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, 594 00:31:25,100 --> 00:31:27,000 goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye. 595 00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:27,700 Goodbye.