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Don't think we're going to out 
meme Donald Trump or that we're 

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going to beat him on XI. 
Think it's going to be 

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ultimately in the in the courts 
and in delivering better 

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outcomes and getting people to 
actually vote with their feet 

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and want to come back to blue 
states. 

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You you sort of tweaked Gavin 
Newsom, the governor, for being 

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almost like Trump obsessed. 
Like shouldn't we be? 

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I understand what he's doing. 
He's holding a mirror up to 

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Donald Trump, who is a threat to
our democracy, and I disagree 

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with many of his policies. 
I also firmly believe that our 

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failure to solve our biggest 
problems has given the MAGA 

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movement a tremendous amount of 
ammunition. 

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It's a big part of what's giving
oxygen to this movement, and the

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best resistance is delivering 
results. 

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So we are now paying more to 
import dirtier fuel from farther

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away, and we've lost all the 
jobs and tax base from that 

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industry in the meantime. 
I tend to think that there's a 

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there's a difference by an order
of magnitude or two between the 

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between waste and fraud and 
abuse. 

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Fraud and abuse happen and 
they're very noteworthy and they

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should never happen and we 
should always punish them and 

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root them out and try to prevent
them. 

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But it's waste and inefficiency 
that is the the bigger issue. 

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Matt Mahan, mayor of San Jose, 
and I go back a long time. 

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I think I was at an election 
party he threw when Trump was 

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first selected, and it was a 
very sad affair. 

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He's raised money now to run for
governor of California from some

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people I know well, Gary Tan of 
Y Combinator, Joe Lonsdale, the 

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Palantir Co founder. 
Mahan and I share a lot of 

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sympathies. 
We somewhat believe in tech, 

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somewhat believe in what's going
on in AII guess both make a lot 

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of our money from the tech set. 
But on the other hand, our 

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principled Democrats with our 
own independent ideas. 

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And so he and I had an honest 
conversation. 

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I think I pushed him on a lot of
things. 

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He's competing for governor in a
unique primary environment. 

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It's the so-called jungle 
primary. 

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So he can try and pick up some 
Republican voters. 

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Obviously that's difficult in a 
in a world where you have to 

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pick a team man as a a tall hill
to climb to win this race. 

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I think he's definitely behind, 
but a fascinating candidate that

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says a lot about what's 
happening in tech and American 

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politics today. 
I'm Eric newcomer. 

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This is the newcomer podcast. 
That man, mayor of San Jose, 

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candidate for governor of 
California. 

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We've known each. 
It's been, it's been a while, 

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but we met back in your brigade 
days before your mayor. 

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Not surprised to see you're 
running for governor, I believe 

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back then, even though it's like
that's you saw. 

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Yeah, I was like, believable. 
So thank you. 

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Thank you for coming on the 
Newcomer Podcast. 

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Yeah, I'm thrilled to be here. 
It's good to see you again after

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all these years. 
Yeah, so just start with the 

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mission statement of the 
campaign. 

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It's what? 
It's a jungle primary. 

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It's gonna be sort of a brawl to
get to be one of the top 2 

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candidates. 
What what is your message for 

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people? 
Yeah, and I. 

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Jumped in just a few weeks ago. 
I think it's a a wide open race 

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still. 
And my, my core argument is that

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we need to fix California. 
We need to fix it for the 40 

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million people who live there. 
Also nationally, what happens in

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California matters. 
And frankly, I think that our 

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inability to address housing 
costs, energy costs, 

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homelessness, crime, addiction 
issues have given Trump and the 

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MAGA movement the best 
ammunition imaginable. 

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And so I really, I want to fix 
our problems for my family, my 

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neighbors, all of our fellow 
Californians. 

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I also think there's a bigger 
context here. 

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I'm worried about this rising 
populism on the right and now on

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the left. 
And you, you sort of see folks 

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turning to really easy answers, 
you know, more authoritarianism 

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or more socialistic socialist 
policies that ultimately I just 

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don't think we're going to work 
and practice or really be what 

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America's all about and what 
actually makes us great. 

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And so I just, I'm worried, you 
know? 

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Yeah. 
I mean, how much do you 

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subscribe to the like abundance 
message? 

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Because there's clearly echoes 
of that you're saying in a 

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little. 
Bit yeah, yeah. 

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And I don't think it's a 
holistic worldview that solves 

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everything. 
I've spent a lot of time working

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on homelessness, crime, 
addiction, untreated mental 

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illness. 
And is there an abundance 

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message there? 
Maybe there's also just like, 

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accountability. 
Sometimes you have to intervene.

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And there's a whole interesting 
conversation about civil 

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liberties that's sort of 
independent of the abundance 

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conversation. 
But the basic notion that we 

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have made government too slow, 
too bureaucratic, we create a 

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lot of cost around the things we
most want like housing and clean

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energy, I think is absolutely 
true. 

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High speed rail being the sort 
of poster child for everything 

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that's wrong with the 
progressive governance model 

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today. 
That's why has California high 

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speed rail failed? 
Like it's almost, it's so hard 

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to imagine. 
It's, it's like, let's just 

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throw more money at it and 
someday it will work. 

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I, you know, I think we're both 
of the world where we 

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desperately want it to work. 
We want these beautiful, you 

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know, Japan style trains running
around, But why can't America 

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deliver on it? 
Yeah, it's it's pretty stark 

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when you look at during the 20 
years where we've spent $20 

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billion and not delivered a 
train China's build over 10,000.

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They may now be at 20,000 miles 
of high speed rail connecting 

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their entire country. 
I mean, it's, and that's not an 

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entirely fair comparison. 
But at the end of the day, 

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people care about outcomes. 
And I think that's part of why 

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we're seeing this more 
authoritarian impulse of this 

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turn to a strong man is the 
people just want stuff to 

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happen. 
It's it's the, you know, 

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Governor Shapiro, get shit done 
mind right that we really need. 

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So why? 
You know, I think it largely 

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comes down to the fact that this
project was caught up in years 

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of environmental review and 
clearance. 

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Years of litigation has taken 
forever to assemble all of the 

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pieces legally, environmentally,
just all of the regulatory 

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compliance takes years. 
California has made it that. 

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I think the country already 
suffers from the litigiousness 

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around environmental review, 
NEPA as well as our California 

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version of that sequa. 
But we're especially bad in 

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California. 
You can have housing projects 

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that make so much sense. 
You have the general plan where 

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the public's already weighed in.
You've said this surface parking

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lot in a downtown next to 
transit obviously should be high

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rise residential. 
And you can still take 18 to 24 

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months to get through the 
environmental review process and

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you can still get sued for it. 
It's crazy. 

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It's. 
It's amazing, you know, as a 

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millennial to realize that being
a progressive in sort of the 

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previous generation was some of 
this sort of Sierra Club. 

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Like we want green in that we 
want like a nice park with a 

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sort of limited scope 
neighborhood. 

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And it's like that. 
It doesn't match with what I 

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guess progressivism means to my 
generation. 

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I think that's absolutely right.
I think we go through cycles and

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we have to keep updating the 
operating system, if you will. 

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I think we went from early 
progressivism 100 years ago 

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where there was actually a trust
in big institutions to solve 

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society's biggest problems. 
And you ultimately saw the 

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height of that in the New Deal 
rose like we've we need 

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government to be extremely 
active and robust. 

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And coming out of that in World 
War Two, there was a lot of 

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trust in government and 
expertise and big bureaucracies.

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And then I think much of kind of
leading toward when around the 

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time we were born and, and up 
till today was the 

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disintegration of that model. 
And progressives taking a very 

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different approach, largely the 
environmental movement, but just

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sort of the rights based, very 
litigious approach to protecting

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individuals from big government 
and big business. 

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But we've we've unintentionally 
I think hobbled government and 

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we are no longer able to move 
quickly and efficiently and do 

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big things. 
And now there's, and I mean, 

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obviously it's being covered by 
a lot of folks like Ezra Klein 

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and Derek Thompson and others. 
But I think we're now sort of 

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grappling with what is the next 
version, what's the next 

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operating system need to look 
like? 

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Can you achieve, if you're 
governor of California, will be 

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you be able to achieve great 
things through government? 

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Or is it about clearing the way 
for businesses and others to 

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achieve great things? 
Like is there a way to get the 

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actual humans working for 
government? 

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I don't know to build things, 
deliver things more effectively 

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or it's just like government's 
not always best positioned to 

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solve these big problems. 
It's a great question. 

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I do think you have to take it 
case by case. 

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I would not simply rely on the 
private sector to magically fix 

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education or transportation 
systems or I mean, there's some 

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big complicated systems that are
largely what you might call 

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public goods where government 
just needs to do better. 

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We need to use technology to 
deliver better services. 

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Small example of this is in San 
Jose. 

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We've been using an AI powered 
tool. 

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There's a startup called Light 
that has helped us to speed up 

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all of our public bus routes. 
So buses across the city of San 

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Jose in the last called 18 
months have become 20% faster on

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average through just this very 
subtle synchronization of 

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lights. 
And that's a. 

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It's hard not to hear this 
without the direct sort of 

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mumdani contrast, right? 
He's promising free buses. 

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You're like, we can make buses 
20% faster, which is probably 

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more important in some ways 
better, right? 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, people pay for this. 

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But one thing goes viral and the
other does. 

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Not no. 
You're right, the kind of more 

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technical competence based 
approach is not always the most,

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the most viral, It doesn't 
always make the headlines. 

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But I, I do believe, you know, 
people pay for things that they 

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value. 
And if you're going to pay 

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$20.00 for an Uber ride, you 
should be willing to pay 2 or $3

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for a bus ride. 
But it can't take five times 

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00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:42,920
longer like we, we need to, we 
need to speed it up and provide 

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a great, a great service. 
But back to your, your bigger 

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00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:48,560
question. 
I do think there are areas where

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the answer is to pull back some 
of the robustness of the public 

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sector. 
I, I think on housing to some 

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extent energy. 
I'll give you another example on

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energy that will probably not 
win me any friends in the 

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00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,880
environmental movement. 
And I consider myself a lifelong

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00:10:03,880 --> 00:10:07,440
environmentalist, very big on 
open space, love being outdoors 

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00:10:07,440 --> 00:10:09,600
and hiking and camping and all 
that good stuff. 

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00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:15,400
We though, have been so single 
minded about our support for 

203
00:10:15,400 --> 00:10:18,920
clean energy. 
And we have so aggressively 

204
00:10:18,920 --> 00:10:21,920
regulated the oil and gas 
industry that we have pushed 

205
00:10:21,920 --> 00:10:25,240
refineries, most of the 
refineries that are just 

206
00:10:25,240 --> 00:10:28,280
regulated to be the cleanest, 
best run refineries in the 

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00:10:28,280 --> 00:10:30,320
world. 
We have pushed them out of 

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00:10:30,320 --> 00:10:32,720
California, but we're still 
using gas. 

209
00:10:32,840 --> 00:10:37,240
So we are now paying more to 
import dirtier fuel from farther

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00:10:37,240 --> 00:10:39,360
away. 
And we've lost all the jobs and 

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00:10:39,360 --> 00:10:43,320
tax base that industry in the 
meantime, but we're still using 

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00:10:43,320 --> 00:10:45,520
it, burning it. 
We've just kind of killed the 

213
00:10:45,520 --> 00:10:48,440
economics of it. 
And it's actually producing more

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00:10:48,440 --> 00:10:50,040
emissions. 
And it's just sort of like good 

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00:10:50,040 --> 00:10:53,040
intentions gone awry in an 
overly regulated state. 

216
00:10:53,640 --> 00:10:57,080
I think it was, John Arnold, the
philanthropist and billionaire 

217
00:10:57,080 --> 00:10:59,640
said the other day. 
Like there are a set of states, 

218
00:10:59,680 --> 00:11:01,240
you know, like Texas, where he 
lives. 

219
00:11:01,440 --> 00:11:04,920
They feel like they're competing
for people to come and set up 

220
00:11:04,920 --> 00:11:06,400
businesses. 
And then there are states like 

221
00:11:06,400 --> 00:11:10,160
California that feel like we 
don't need you like with, I 

222
00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:14,120
mean, the the billionaire tax 
proposal, I guess being the most

223
00:11:14,120 --> 00:11:16,040
prominent. 
Now, that's obviously not like 

224
00:11:16,560 --> 00:11:20,080
Gavin Newsom's idea necessarily.
Or what is your sense of the 

225
00:11:20,080 --> 00:11:22,120
political support for this 
billionaire tax? 

226
00:11:22,120 --> 00:11:23,920
You've obviously been opposed to
it. 

227
00:11:24,120 --> 00:11:26,600
And what's your read on like the
seriousness of it for 

228
00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:28,400
California? 
Yeah, it's it's a very real 

229
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risk. 
Governor Newsom's opposed to it 

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as well, but most of the 
Democratic leadership in the 

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state has either supported it or
stayed pretty silent on it. 

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I think the governor and I have 
been two of the only more 

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prominent Democrats in the state
to say this is a bad idea. 

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And it's not because we are, you
know, worried about protecting 

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billionaires from taxation or 
don't believe in progressive 

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taxation. 
I think the wealthiest amongst 

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us should absolutely pay 
substantially into the public 

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system to continue the the 
prosperity, the infrastructure, 

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all the things that make that, 
you know, the platform on which 

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their prosperity was was 
created. 

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But this is going to backfire if
it passes. 

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00:12:12,160 --> 00:12:13,800
And I think I think it is 
backfired. 

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You're right, Google. 
Govounders are fleeing the 

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state. 
That's right. 

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We've seen over a trillion 
dollars of capital flight to 

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your point we there, I just saw 
a projection the other day there

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was a debate at Stanford and out
of that there there was this 

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analysis that showed that we're 
likely to lose 25 billion per 

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year. 
That's recurring revenue. 

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This, remember this proposal 
supposedly is a one time tax 

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that will generate 100 billion. 
At this point maybe it would 

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generate 50 because we've 
already lost so much wealth and 

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that would be one time. 
It may have cost us 25 billion 

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per year in revenue. 
Nobody really knows yet. 

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I think it will be defeated. 
A lot of damage has been done. 

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As you I'm sure know and your 
listeners know, there are 12 

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European countries that have 
tried wealth taxes at the 

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national level, not the sub 
national level and they've 

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00:13:05,160 --> 00:13:08,800
mostly all rolled them back. 
They've seen tax their their tax

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00:13:08,800 --> 00:13:10,920
base shrink. 
It's just not a smart. 

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00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:12,520
And of course, some of the 
reason the tech industry in 

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particular is going ballistic is
sort of the potential for 

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unrealized gains being taxed. 
And startups are all about 

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having these on paper, highly 
valued companies that, you know,

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it's like if you actually had to
cash it out, I'll put the money.

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00:13:24,520 --> 00:13:27,920
Right, it's just. 
Like someday it will maybe be 

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worth that, but I don't have 
that money today. 

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00:13:30,080 --> 00:13:33,840
That's right. 
You know, on the flip side of 

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00:13:33,840 --> 00:13:36,280
this, like, oh, we don't need a 
larger tax base. 

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00:13:36,280 --> 00:13:38,240
You know, California already has
so much money. 

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00:13:38,320 --> 00:13:41,640
I mean, a lot of that money is 
going to state health care, 

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00:13:41,640 --> 00:13:43,840
right? 
I think sometimes when I see 

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sort of criticism about the size
of government from the left, and

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00:13:46,240 --> 00:13:49,360
you sort of saw this with doge 
on the federal level, where 

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Elon's Cruz said, oh, we're 
gonna like save so much money by

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00:13:52,800 --> 00:13:55,240
cutting federal workers, which I
think, you know, they did cut a 

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00:13:55,240 --> 00:13:57,720
bunch of federal workers, but 
they didn't balance the budget 

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00:13:57,720 --> 00:14:01,400
because so much of the spending 
is still in healthcare and other

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00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:03,600
things that people love about 
government. 

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00:14:03,840 --> 00:14:05,320
Right. 
You're absolutely right. 

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And California, the two biggest 
areas of expenditure by far are 

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healthcare and education. 
And I think the right approach 

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is to get more value for the 
dollars we're spending. 

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Now that may involve cutting 
certain programs or staffing 

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within that larger bucket of 
healthcare provision or 

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00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:27,800
education. 
We may find that we need to 

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00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,200
dramatically reallocate how 
we're spending the dollars. 

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00:14:31,480 --> 00:14:35,440
But you're very unlikely to find
the political support nor would 

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00:14:35,440 --> 00:14:38,760
it necessarily be good for 
society to reduce the spend with

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00:14:38,760 --> 00:14:42,320
an education and healthcare. 
I, I think, you know, 50% of 

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00:14:42,320 --> 00:14:44,600
healthcare spends in the last 
five years of life and it's 

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00:14:44,600 --> 00:14:48,000
people choosing to want better 
end of life care. 

293
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:50,760
Now, can we do more prevention 
or reduce chronic illness and 

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00:14:50,760 --> 00:14:51,800
all that? 
Yes. 

295
00:14:52,200 --> 00:14:56,880
But I think the real focus needs
to be on how we get more value 

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00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,760
for per dollar spent. 
So it is saving in some of the 

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00:14:59,760 --> 00:15:02,160
health spending areas. 
I think it's saving, but it's 

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00:15:02,160 --> 00:15:03,960
really just optimizing the 
spend. 

299
00:15:03,960 --> 00:15:08,000
I think in healthcare, for 
example, I would like to see 

300
00:15:08,320 --> 00:15:14,080
less of the spend on managing 
chronic illness and more on 

301
00:15:14,080 --> 00:15:18,440
upfront prevention. 
We also spend a lot of our 

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00:15:18,440 --> 00:15:21,080
healthcare dollars within a very
expensive and inefficient 

303
00:15:21,080 --> 00:15:25,360
hospital system versus providing
more accessible clinics and 

304
00:15:25,360 --> 00:15:29,200
leveraging the capacity of nurse
practitioners who are capable of

305
00:15:29,200 --> 00:15:32,680
doing a whole lot more than they
are often allowed to do per 

306
00:15:32,680 --> 00:15:35,040
their for their license or local
regulations. 

307
00:15:35,040 --> 00:15:38,160
So there are ways to actually, 
we offer more care, higher 

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00:15:38,160 --> 00:15:41,640
quality care, more preventative 
care to more people in more 

309
00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:44,400
places with the same amount of 
spending. 

310
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,320
So it's more about the 
inefficiency of the spending. 

311
00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:50,680
When there's this discussion of 
waste, fraud and abuse, I tend 

312
00:15:50,680 --> 00:15:53,240
to think that there's a, there's
a difference by an order of 

313
00:15:53,240 --> 00:15:56,520
magnitude or two between the 
between waste and fraud and 

314
00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:57,840
abuse. 
Fraud and abuse happen and 

315
00:15:57,840 --> 00:15:59,880
they're very noteworthy and they
should never happen and we 

316
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:02,880
should always punish them and 
root them out and try to prevent

317
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,960
them. 
But it's waste and inefficiency 

318
00:16:04,960 --> 00:16:08,120
that is the the bigger issue. 
We spent a lot of money without 

319
00:16:08,120 --> 00:16:11,640
knowing if it's actually 
performing, if it's delivering 

320
00:16:11,640 --> 00:16:15,360
the outcome that we want. 
Do you, do you think Doge you 

321
00:16:15,360 --> 00:16:17,480
have? 
Was there anything valuable that

322
00:16:17,480 --> 00:16:20,760
came out of that? 
Well, I think it started an 

323
00:16:20,760 --> 00:16:25,520
important conversation about 
waste and government and how to 

324
00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,360
do things better. 
I think where Dodge really went 

325
00:16:28,360 --> 00:16:34,240
off the rails was in seemingly 
taking joy in firing public 

326
00:16:34,240 --> 00:16:38,400
servants, many of whom you know 
had done, most of whom had done 

327
00:16:38,400 --> 00:16:40,880
nothing wrong. 
And we're just very committed, 

328
00:16:40,880 --> 00:16:43,880
genuinely committed to the 
mission of the agency where they

329
00:16:43,880 --> 00:16:45,440
worked. 
It seems like some of the best 

330
00:16:45,440 --> 00:16:48,640
among us, like who developed 
special specialties over many 

331
00:16:48,640 --> 00:16:51,280
years. 
I mean, I get yeah, I just 

332
00:16:51,280 --> 00:16:54,360
especially sort of the, you 
know, foreign aid stuff, the the

333
00:16:54,360 --> 00:16:58,640
malice about people who are 
trying to help other people or. 

334
00:16:59,240 --> 00:17:03,280
The the different roles in 
different science, you know, 

335
00:17:03,280 --> 00:17:06,240
scientific fields, doing 
research, long term research 

336
00:17:06,240 --> 00:17:09,160
that may be valuable. 
It just it, it seemed like it 

337
00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:12,359
was attacking the people, not 
the problem of innovation 

338
00:17:12,359 --> 00:17:13,880
spending. 
Let me try to make this more 

339
00:17:13,880 --> 00:17:16,359
concrete. 
In San Jose we have, as with all

340
00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:20,200
governments, limited resources 
for different priorities. 

341
00:17:20,200 --> 00:17:22,640
One of our priorities is ending 
homelessness. 

342
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,200
We spend somewhere between 50 
and $100 million a year, 

343
00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,760
depending on revenue. 
It's a volatile revenue source, 

344
00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:33,640
but we spend 50 to $100 million 
a year on tackling homelessness 

345
00:17:33,640 --> 00:17:36,480
and housing issues. 
When I came into the mayor's 

346
00:17:36,480 --> 00:17:39,640
office a little over three years
ago, we were spending most of 

347
00:17:39,640 --> 00:17:42,320
that money building brand new 
apartments for people. 

348
00:17:42,320 --> 00:17:44,960
And for those who got those 
apartments, it was a great 

349
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:46,920
solution. 
They remained off the streets 

350
00:17:46,920 --> 00:17:48,200
and their outcomes were much 
better. 

351
00:17:48,440 --> 00:17:52,280
The problem was the math just 
didn't show any path to 

352
00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:56,080
scalability, $1,000,000 a door, 
six years to build this 

353
00:17:56,080 --> 00:17:59,040
apartment, we've got thousands 
of people living outside. 

354
00:17:59,400 --> 00:18:03,120
So I said we there's a much more
optimal way of spending these 

355
00:18:03,120 --> 00:18:06,400
limited dollars given the 
magnitude of the problem and the

356
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:08,840
timeline that we have, which is 
which is like we need to solve 

357
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,520
this today because. 
People expect it like. 

358
00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:12,800
Yeah, people are dying on the 
streets. 

359
00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:14,880
A couple 100 people a year die 
on our streets. 

360
00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:19,560
So we shifted the dollars toward
buying and fixing up old motels,

361
00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,600
buying prefabricated modular 
units, and putting these 

362
00:18:22,600 --> 00:18:25,160
sleeping cabins, if you will, on
public land. 

363
00:18:25,440 --> 00:18:28,040
We brought outreach in house. 
Reduce the number of people, but

364
00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:30,400
improve the quality and actually
something to offer people 

365
00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,360
because we had built shelter. 
We've put money into prevention 

366
00:18:33,360 --> 00:18:35,560
and slowed the inflow into 
homelessness. 

367
00:18:36,080 --> 00:18:39,520
Same amount of money, but we've 
reduced the number of human 

368
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:43,280
beings living outside in tent 
encampments by about 1/3 in just

369
00:18:43,280 --> 00:18:46,400
the last few years. 
And with the next count, we will

370
00:18:46,600 --> 00:18:49,000
for the first time have a 
majority of people who are 

371
00:18:49,000 --> 00:18:52,240
homeless in San Jose living 
indoors, not outdoors, which is 

372
00:18:52,600 --> 00:18:56,840
qualitatively a completely 
different type of homelessness 

373
00:18:56,840 --> 00:19:00,920
than having people literally 
wallowing in misery in a tent 

374
00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:03,640
encampment and dying of overdose
and, you know, down in the 

375
00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:05,120
Creek. 
I mean, it's it's a totally 

376
00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:09,080
different situation and we 
didn't have to raise taxes to do

377
00:19:09,080 --> 00:19:10,640
it. 
We just had to think differently

378
00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:13,040
and be willing to reprogram our 
dollars. 

379
00:19:13,640 --> 00:19:16,480
The tech industry is very 
enthusiastic about your 

380
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:19,360
campaign. 
I think from, you know, Gary Tan

381
00:19:19,360 --> 00:19:22,720
to Joe Lonsdale or back end like
what? 

382
00:19:22,720 --> 00:19:26,520
What do you what do you think is
like getting them excited about 

383
00:19:26,520 --> 00:19:29,800
your candidacy? 
More than anything, I think it's

384
00:19:29,800 --> 00:19:32,960
that being the mayor of the 
Capitol, Silicon Valley. 

385
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:34,440
You got to meet them, you know 
that? 

386
00:19:34,560 --> 00:19:36,480
Yeah. 
I know, I know the tech world 

387
00:19:36,480 --> 00:19:38,760
well. 
I've I spent a decade working in

388
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:43,560
IT, in the civic tech space, as 
you know, with with causes on 

389
00:19:43,560 --> 00:19:46,720
Facebook and early philanthropy.
I was saying, I think perhaps 

390
00:19:46,720 --> 00:19:48,800
the last time we ran into each 
other, though I might have been 

391
00:19:49,000 --> 00:19:52,480
somewhat intoxicated, was when 
Trump beat Hillary Clinton. 

392
00:19:52,480 --> 00:19:56,120
I think you guys had a party in 
San Francisco, 2016. 

393
00:19:56,320 --> 00:20:00,120
I was sort of like at a 
wandering day, you know, I wound

394
00:20:00,120 --> 00:20:03,400
up at that party was like this 
saddest set of people that San 

395
00:20:03,440 --> 00:20:07,080
Francisco, It was a really 
cultural turning point where 

396
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:11,440
you're telling me, I don't know 
if I can Fact Check this either.

397
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,200
You sort of think you saw the 
Trump thing coming from. 

398
00:20:14,600 --> 00:20:17,840
So we had a map on on Brigade's 
website and Brigade, just for 

399
00:20:17,840 --> 00:20:21,120
your listeners benefit was I 
would analogize it to a 

400
00:20:21,120 --> 00:20:24,480
LinkedIn, but for your civic or 
political identity. 

401
00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:27,640
We hooked into the voter file. 
We, we allowed you to claim your

402
00:20:27,640 --> 00:20:31,440
voter record and then showed you
all of your representatives who 

403
00:20:31,440 --> 00:20:34,280
else lived in your district or 
districts, depending on which 

404
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:37,160
level of government and allowed 
you to basically organize with 

405
00:20:37,160 --> 00:20:38,840
other voters. 
You could, you could kind of put

406
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,120
your votes together around 
issues you cared about and 

407
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:44,480
support candidates. 
And this was 10 years ago. 

408
00:20:45,160 --> 00:20:48,640
We had a map and it was much 
more red than other maps. 

409
00:20:48,640 --> 00:20:50,720
And I don't think our map was 
particularly accurate. 

410
00:20:50,720 --> 00:20:57,480
But what we did see was this 
crossover behavior of, you know,

411
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,600
older, middle-aged and older 
voters, white voters in the 

412
00:21:01,600 --> 00:21:06,920
Midwest, lower propensity voters
who had voted registered 

413
00:21:06,920 --> 00:21:09,880
Democratic but told us they were
going to vote for Trump or had 

414
00:21:09,880 --> 00:21:12,720
voted for Obama and told us they
were going to vote for Trump. 

415
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:16,280
And it was just so interesting 
to pick up on this trend of 

416
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,640
people who were telling us that 
they were all for Trump. 

417
00:21:18,640 --> 00:21:22,240
But none of the previous data 
about their behavior or the 

418
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,800
registration, their status as a 
voter would have led us to 

419
00:21:25,800 --> 00:21:28,280
predict that. 
And so we sort of saw that 

420
00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,480
coming. 
And on election night, I mean, 

421
00:21:30,600 --> 00:21:33,720
the New York Times and Wall 
Street Journal and others 

422
00:21:34,160 --> 00:21:36,600
literally had reporters call and
be like, what did you guys see 

423
00:21:36,600 --> 00:21:38,320
in your data? 
Like, what should we did you? 

424
00:21:38,320 --> 00:21:39,880
What did you guys know that we 
didn't know? 

425
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:43,280
Because we were kind of, you 
know, dismissed going into that 

426
00:21:43,280 --> 00:21:44,480
race. 
It's like, oh, there's that 

427
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:46,840
weird app over there that seems 
to have been taken over by Trump

428
00:21:46,840 --> 00:21:48,720
supporters. 
And we were like, no, not 

429
00:21:48,720 --> 00:21:49,320
really. 
Yeah. 

430
00:21:49,320 --> 00:21:53,240
It was really interesting. 
Do you from that experience like

431
00:21:54,040 --> 00:21:58,480
any validity to election denial 
claims or what's what's your set

432
00:21:58,480 --> 00:22:00,240
like this save act and 
everything? 

433
00:22:00,640 --> 00:22:04,440
We we did not get any indication
of you're talking about like 

434
00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:06,360
voter fraud. 
But whether voter fraud is 

435
00:22:06,360 --> 00:22:07,960
something, you know, sort? 
Of well, our. 

436
00:22:07,960 --> 00:22:09,560
Middle of the road sort of 
person. 

437
00:22:09,560 --> 00:22:12,320
Our apartment. 
Didn't pick up you any of and 

438
00:22:12,320 --> 00:22:14,400
you don't think? 
There's like any I don't. 

439
00:22:14,400 --> 00:22:16,880
Think it is a is a rampant 
issue. 

440
00:22:16,920 --> 00:22:23,440
I I do think that building trust
in the process is really 

441
00:22:23,440 --> 00:22:25,680
important. 
And whether it's whether the 

442
00:22:25,720 --> 00:22:29,600
claims are legitimate or not or 
the scale is significant enough 

443
00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,680
to matter. 
The notion that there should be 

444
00:22:33,680 --> 00:22:38,040
some identity verification, some
sort of voter ID or or some 

445
00:22:38,040 --> 00:22:42,120
safeguards beyond what we have 
today, I think it's reasonable 

446
00:22:42,120 --> 00:22:44,920
because you now have half the 
country doubting if our 

447
00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:47,640
elections have the integrity 
that they need to have. 

448
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:50,400
So for better or worse, we're 
kind of at a point where I do 

449
00:22:50,400 --> 00:22:52,160
think we need to address this 
issue. 

450
00:22:52,240 --> 00:22:56,080
The SAFE Act seems like if that 
pass, it would be give the 

451
00:22:56,080 --> 00:22:58,640
federal government under Trump a
lot of control over the 

452
00:22:58,640 --> 00:23:00,360
election. 
Yeah, that makes me very 

453
00:23:00,360 --> 00:23:02,320
nervous. 
There's a conversation in 

454
00:23:02,320 --> 00:23:07,600
California right now about voter
ID, which I think 70 to 80% of 

455
00:23:07,600 --> 00:23:09,800
people support. 
The notion that if you've got to

456
00:23:09,800 --> 00:23:14,600
use ID to buy alcohol or to buy 
a car or a gun or any other 

457
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,840
thing, and you've got to carry 
your ID with you as a driver and

458
00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:21,600
to get into a bar or whatnot, 
there ought to be some form of 

459
00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:23,600
identity verification. 
It's still very, I mean you go 

460
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:25,280
on. 
Everything else, you're like, 

461
00:23:25,320 --> 00:23:27,560
oh, we need need to be pragmatic
and sort of tell people the 

462
00:23:27,560 --> 00:23:30,440
truth and like, yeah, I just 
think this voter ID thing, 

463
00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:31,880
there's just not that much 
fraud. 

464
00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,080
No, I agree there's not. 
Too hard to commit the fraud at 

465
00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:36,280
the level they want. 
Like you have to go. 

466
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:39,560
You say your address like it's 
just like it's be a lot of but I

467
00:23:39,600 --> 00:23:41,560
don't. 
Think that's the point really, 

468
00:23:41,560 --> 00:23:46,120
in the sense that you're right, 
I totally agree with you. 

469
00:23:46,120 --> 00:23:49,280
And yet the democracy is based 
on trust. 

470
00:23:49,440 --> 00:23:53,200
And if half the country is 
believing that our elections 

471
00:23:53,200 --> 00:23:55,680
aren't secure and don't have 
integrity and they shouldn't 

472
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,640
trust the results if they don't 
like the outcome, that's a 

473
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:02,440
problem for us as Democrats 
whether we like it or not. 

474
00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,480
And we can, we can do the very 
academic and classically 

475
00:24:05,480 --> 00:24:08,080
democratic thing and try to show
them a bunch of data and 

476
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,320
explain, Oh no, don't worry, 
it's a rounding error. 

477
00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,280
It almost never. 
It's probably never changed the 

478
00:24:13,280 --> 00:24:15,640
outcome of an election, although
you'd be surprised how many down

479
00:24:15,640 --> 00:24:17,720
ballot elections are decided by 
a few votes. 

480
00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:23,000
But you can try to explain to 
people that they're wrong or you

481
00:24:23,000 --> 00:24:27,400
can take a common sense action 
that I mean, I, I just don't buy

482
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:31,720
that it is an impossibility for 
us to give people 3 or 4 

483
00:24:31,720 --> 00:24:34,440
different ways to to have an 
extra layer of protection where 

484
00:24:34,440 --> 00:24:37,120
they show up and show a driver's
license or a passport or 

485
00:24:37,120 --> 00:24:37,680
something. 
So. 

486
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:42,680
So you right now you represent 
San Jose, which is tech, you 

487
00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,080
know, Ground Zero, their 
hometown. 

488
00:24:45,080 --> 00:24:48,920
Like, what is your view of now 
that you're campaigning of the 

489
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:52,120
average Californians view of 
like the tech industry right 

490
00:24:52,120 --> 00:24:53,360
now? 
Well, there's a lot of 

491
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,760
skepticism, and I understand 
that there's the skepticism of 

492
00:24:57,760 --> 00:25:00,800
high housing costs that I don't 
think it's fair to completely 

493
00:25:00,800 --> 00:25:03,480
blame tech for. 
But the truth is we've created 

494
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:05,920
jobs at a much faster rate than 
we've built housing. 

495
00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,800
I see that as a public policy 
failure first and foremost. 

496
00:25:09,160 --> 00:25:11,560
But a lot of people say, well, 
if it wasn't for all these tech 

497
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,960
companies and all these high 
paying jobs, our housing prices 

498
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:16,160
wouldn't be as high as they are 
are. 

499
00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:17,600
And there's, there's some truth 
in that. 

500
00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:19,520
I, I don't think the answer is 
to get rid of the industry. 

501
00:25:19,520 --> 00:25:21,240
I think it's to build housing, 
to be clear. 

502
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:28,240
But there's also a lot of fear 
that AI is going to destroy jobs

503
00:25:28,240 --> 00:25:33,120
and massively displace workers. 
Ironically, it may be those 

504
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:37,160
higher paid white collar jobs 
that start getting automated 

505
00:25:37,160 --> 00:25:39,600
faster than than. 
Others double down on that. 

506
00:25:39,640 --> 00:25:40,680
I mean, it's mystifying right 
now. 

507
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:43,960
You have, you know, Alex Carpet 
Palantir going around sort of 

508
00:25:43,960 --> 00:25:47,640
bragging that, you know, the 
blue collar worker is going to 

509
00:25:47,640 --> 00:25:50,000
benefit and it's sort of he 
literally said, you know, it's 

510
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,680
like the white women who vote 
Democrat, they're the ones that 

511
00:25:52,680 --> 00:25:54,280
are going to get screwed. 
He. 

512
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:56,520
He. 
Specifically said something 

513
00:25:56,520 --> 00:25:58,880
about women. 
I, I don't know who are the 

514
00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:01,840
democratic base, but anyway, we 
don't need to get in that carp 

515
00:26:01,840 --> 00:26:04,920
specifically, but there's 
definitely this sense from, I 

516
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,600
think it's become sort of a 
right wing tech talking point 

517
00:26:07,840 --> 00:26:09,480
that, you know, white collar 
workers get screwed and the 

518
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:11,280
plumber like nothing better to 
be a plumber. 

519
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,600
But the, the flip side of that 
is like nothing better to be the

520
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,480
owner of an AI company. 
Like the person on the top top, 

521
00:26:17,480 --> 00:26:20,240
maybe, you know, all their 
coders running around are about 

522
00:26:20,240 --> 00:26:22,680
to get screwed, but this 
technology is still gonna be 

523
00:26:22,680 --> 00:26:27,600
controlled by white collar shape
rotator or whatever, you know, 

524
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:30,280
but like, not, not the plumber 
or yeah, I don't know totally. 

525
00:26:30,760 --> 00:26:33,800
What do you worry about? 
Sort of the tech industry having

526
00:26:33,800 --> 00:26:37,720
more control over what our lives
look like if if they have this 

527
00:26:37,720 --> 00:26:39,480
powerful technology outside of 
government. 

528
00:26:39,480 --> 00:26:42,000
So I mean, when I think about 
AII, think about all of the 

529
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:44,400
capability first. 
I think about the capabilities 

530
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,480
that we can leverage to make our
lives better. 

531
00:26:47,480 --> 00:26:50,440
And I think about that primarily
through the lens of public 

532
00:26:50,440 --> 00:26:53,160
sector services. 
We've speed up our buses, we've 

533
00:26:53,160 --> 00:26:56,600
improved language translation, 
we're saving it's it's. 

534
00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,320
Amazing language translation. 
That would have been an insane. 

535
00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:01,880
Like we would have been like 
mind boggled. 

536
00:27:01,880 --> 00:27:03,480
And then we're like, oh, great, 
yeah, I did that. 

537
00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:05,560
Actually it's like really easy. 
It's shocking. 

538
00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,720
We use that just. 
Just a couple of years ago, we 

539
00:27:08,720 --> 00:27:12,800
were paying people in our for 
the the largest languages 

540
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:14,760
represented in our city. 
We're an incredibly diverse 

541
00:27:14,760 --> 00:27:16,800
city. 
San Jose is 40% foreign born. 

542
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,320
Over 50% of people speak a 
language other than English at 

543
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:21,920
home. 
And we would pay human beings 

544
00:27:21,920 --> 00:27:25,800
who would not always even show 
up because they're humans to, to

545
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:31,640
do translation in, in real time 
in, in Spanish, Vietnamese, 

546
00:27:31,960 --> 00:27:34,200
sometimes Mandarin. 
That was about all we could 

547
00:27:34,200 --> 00:27:37,640
afford and, or find. 
But people speak dozens of 

548
00:27:37,640 --> 00:27:41,160
languages in our community. 
Now with an app, you can scan 

549
00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:45,840
AQR code and in dozens of 
languages with really high 

550
00:27:45,840 --> 00:27:49,880
precision at a very low cost. 
At all public meetings, you can,

551
00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:53,640
you can be on your phone and see
true real time language 

552
00:27:53,640 --> 00:27:55,360
translation. 
It's incredible. 

553
00:27:55,480 --> 00:27:58,040
And you can come up and speak in
your native language and we can 

554
00:27:58,040 --> 00:28:00,800
all see on our screens what 
you're saying in real time. 

555
00:28:02,160 --> 00:28:04,240
You're, you're ticking through 
things that sort of AI. 

556
00:28:04,280 --> 00:28:05,840
Yeah. 
So when it comes to AI, I mean, 

557
00:28:05,840 --> 00:28:08,160
you asked a pretty profound 
question about the the 

558
00:28:08,160 --> 00:28:10,880
concentration of power and 
wealth in tech. 

559
00:28:10,880 --> 00:28:14,280
And what does that mean? 
I was saying I, I really have 

560
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,000
focused on how to apply it to 
public services to make them 

561
00:28:18,000 --> 00:28:20,320
better. 
We've also created an AI 

562
00:28:20,960 --> 00:28:24,520
upskilling course curriculum for
our workforce. 

563
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:28,200
And we're, our view is that 
these tools should not be 

564
00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:30,960
displacing city workers. 
They should be enhancing their 

565
00:28:30,960 --> 00:28:33,640
productivity, making their jobs 
more interesting and allowing 

566
00:28:33,640 --> 00:28:36,920
these jobs to evolve naturally. 
But we're not trying to get rid 

567
00:28:36,920 --> 00:28:38,480
of city workers. 
We're trying to help them have 

568
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:40,560
more satisfying and impactful 
jobs. 

569
00:28:40,560 --> 00:28:43,840
And so we've we've taken that 
mission very seriously in San 

570
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,880
Jose on, on the bigger, more 
existential issue. 

571
00:28:47,880 --> 00:28:50,600
Look, I think tech has to be 
regulated. 

572
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,240
I think the big question is 
exactly how to do that. 

573
00:28:53,240 --> 00:28:55,880
It's such an evolving space. 
What is what is model 

574
00:28:55,880 --> 00:28:58,160
transparency? 
I mean, this is your world much 

575
00:28:58,160 --> 00:29:00,760
more than mine. 
But you know, what levels of 

576
00:29:00,760 --> 00:29:03,600
transparency? 
When do you need a human in the 

577
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,800
loop? 
I mean, these are big questions 

578
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,640
and I'm certainly trying to keep
up to speed on them and weigh 

579
00:29:08,640 --> 00:29:11,440
the pros and cons. 
I don't want to prematurely 

580
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:15,640
regulate and push an industry 
out of California so that others

581
00:29:15,640 --> 00:29:20,240
get all of the job growth, high 
paying jobs, the economic impact

582
00:29:20,280 --> 00:29:23,080
and then it happens to us. 
I'd rather keep tech in 

583
00:29:23,080 --> 00:29:26,520
California to the extent that we
can, where we create the rules 

584
00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:30,160
of the road and shape it for 
societal good to the extent that

585
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:32,920
we can on the on the 
concentration of wealth. 

586
00:29:35,120 --> 00:29:37,360
It's not just wealth, it's it's 
sort of power, right? 

587
00:29:37,400 --> 00:29:40,200
I mean, you, you know, Mark 
Zuckerberg is, it's not just 

588
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,000
that he's wealthy, it's that he 
controls Facebook, which you 

589
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:45,280
obviously interacted with with 
your work. 

590
00:29:45,320 --> 00:29:47,800
I mean, yeah. 
And I, you know, sometimes 

591
00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,520
they're good stewards. 
You know, I've been a champion 

592
00:29:50,520 --> 00:29:52,000
of some, you know, like 
Anthropic. 

593
00:29:52,000 --> 00:29:54,840
I think we're, you know, I'm 
glad they're taking a principal 

594
00:29:54,840 --> 00:29:56,400
approach. 
And that requires a little bit 

595
00:29:56,400 --> 00:29:58,760
of centrality. 
So that's part of the American 

596
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:01,360
experiment, that companies get 
to compete with each other and 

597
00:30:01,360 --> 00:30:05,320
build their sort of mini 
totalitarian regimes within 

598
00:30:05,320 --> 00:30:07,280
their company. 
But yeah, I don't know. 

599
00:30:07,280 --> 00:30:11,400
It's a tough, tough question. 
It is and I and I think it 

600
00:30:11,720 --> 00:30:14,400
depends, you know, where you 
want to go with this. 

601
00:30:14,400 --> 00:30:17,640
But if it's if it's there's the 
wealth piece that that has 

602
00:30:17,640 --> 00:30:20,000
become very front and center 
because of the wealth tax in 

603
00:30:20,000 --> 00:30:22,560
California. 
I think the answer there is to 

604
00:30:22,560 --> 00:30:26,080
close a half dozen other tax 
loopholes at the federal level 

605
00:30:26,080 --> 00:30:29,600
that are much more impactful, 
fairer and have fewer unintended

606
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,480
consequences on the regulatory 
environment. 

607
00:30:32,480 --> 00:30:33,760
We. 
Support like I feel like if 

608
00:30:33,760 --> 00:30:36,680
people can get loans based on 
their wealth, that's. 

609
00:30:36,680 --> 00:30:39,360
The lowest hanging fruit. 
It's just insane that's it 

610
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:42,920
allows billionaires to be flush.
They just get loans. 

611
00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:46,960
Against unrealized assets, which
becomes a, a loophole way of not

612
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:49,720
paying on your capital gains. 
You're right. 

613
00:30:49,720 --> 00:30:53,240
There needs to be some sort of 
trigger where at a certain level

614
00:30:53,240 --> 00:30:57,120
of borrowing or time duration, 
it it's counted as a realized 

615
00:30:57,120 --> 00:30:58,720
gain and you have to pay the tax
on it. 

616
00:30:58,760 --> 00:31:02,120
And, and if you have to 
liquidate, so be it because 

617
00:31:02,120 --> 00:31:04,760
you're borrowing so much that 
you're effectively realizing the

618
00:31:04,760 --> 00:31:06,160
gain. 
I know that's very well. 

619
00:31:06,200 --> 00:31:08,360
Federal federal reforms on some 
of the. 

620
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,720
I think on the tax code you 
really need to go to the federal

621
00:31:10,720 --> 00:31:13,080
level. 
California already has the, the 

622
00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:17,480
second highest overall tax 
burden, the most progressive tax

623
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,280
structure. 
In any given year, the top 1% of

624
00:31:21,280 --> 00:31:24,720
our income earners in the state 
contribute 40 or 50% of the 

625
00:31:24,720 --> 00:31:27,240
revenue. 
So we can try to be a little 

626
00:31:27,240 --> 00:31:29,880
more progressive, but at some 
point you are going to kill the 

627
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:31,200
golden goose. 
And I just, I think we're 

628
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:32,720
getting close. 
We're seeing billionaires 

629
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,680
literally move out of state. 
And I just, I, I don't think we 

630
00:31:35,680 --> 00:31:39,360
need to push that anymore. 
We've increased spending in 

631
00:31:39,360 --> 00:31:44,760
California at the state level by
75% percent, equivalent to $150 

632
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:49,200
billion a year more over six 
years ago. 

633
00:31:49,360 --> 00:31:53,040
And if you ask Californians 
what's gotten better, they'd 

634
00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:55,160
have a hard time giving you much
of a list. 

635
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,880
And so, and that's not an 
indictment of anyone in 

636
00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,760
particular. 
I think it is a systemic 

637
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,080
problem. 
I think that we are incredibly 

638
00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:05,080
bureaucratic and inefficient. 
We have a system that's hard to 

639
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,720
reform because they're a highly 
organized interests, corporate 

640
00:32:08,720 --> 00:32:13,560
labor and otherwise in 
Sacramento that just will try to

641
00:32:13,560 --> 00:32:16,480
block any meaningful change. 
And that's that's the 

642
00:32:16,480 --> 00:32:19,560
environment that has LED us to 
increase spending massively and 

643
00:32:19,560 --> 00:32:22,960
not really see much in the way 
of measurable improvement. 

644
00:32:23,120 --> 00:32:25,560
I, I know there's a difference 
between on this question, I'm 

645
00:32:25,560 --> 00:32:27,800
going to talk, we're going to 
talk about Trump for a second. 

646
00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:30,040
And I'm acknowledging that 
there's sort of a difference 

647
00:32:30,040 --> 00:32:33,720
between what you want 
thematically about your campaign

648
00:32:33,800 --> 00:32:36,760
and sort of your level of 
upsetness. 

649
00:32:36,760 --> 00:32:39,360
And so I guess I want to ask 
about that, like you, you sort 

650
00:32:39,360 --> 00:32:42,720
of tweaked Gavin Newsom, the 
governor, the current governor 

651
00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:45,600
for, I don't know, being almost 
like Trump obsessed. 

652
00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:48,480
Like, shouldn't we be like, 
isn't it disturbing what he's 

653
00:32:48,480 --> 00:32:51,920
doing to the country? 
Like, if you're running for good

654
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:55,440
governance, like on the 
corporate side, he's picking 

655
00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:58,760
favourites, you know, helping 
some, some of your sort of 

656
00:32:58,760 --> 00:33:02,520
California companies, deciding 
which ones, you know, can own 

657
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:05,200
studios and which ones can't. 
Like, aren't you sort of deep 

658
00:33:05,360 --> 00:33:07,040
troubled by some of the stuff 
he's doing? 

659
00:33:07,280 --> 00:33:11,280
I'm deeply troubled by a lot of 
the stuff he's doing, starting 

660
00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:13,720
with how he's treating our 
immigrant neighbors. 

661
00:33:13,720 --> 00:33:19,080
San Jose's incredibly diverse 
city, and we've got folks who 

662
00:33:19,080 --> 00:33:23,120
have been living and working and
contributing in our city, our 

663
00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:26,880
community, for decades, who are 
living in fear, scared to leave 

664
00:33:26,880 --> 00:33:29,040
their homes. 
They have children who are U.S. 

665
00:33:29,040 --> 00:33:33,120
citizens. 
We are long past the time that 

666
00:33:33,120 --> 00:33:36,720
we should have come to some, the
parties should have come to some

667
00:33:37,120 --> 00:33:42,440
bargain here over, yes, a secure
border and an orderly lawful 

668
00:33:42,440 --> 00:33:48,400
immigration, but with a pathway 
to at least some form of legal 

669
00:33:48,400 --> 00:33:52,840
status for folks who who are 
here and are otherwise trying to

670
00:33:52,840 --> 00:33:54,800
contribute and play by the 
rules. 

671
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:59,480
So immigration's kind of top of 
my list, general disregard for 

672
00:33:59,480 --> 00:34:02,520
rule of law, tariffs, I mean, 
the list goes on and on. 

673
00:34:02,520 --> 00:34:07,040
I'm deeply concerned. 
You know, my disagreements with 

674
00:34:07,240 --> 00:34:11,920
Governor Newsom over the last 
few years have have generally 

675
00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:17,280
been very focused on specific 
challenges we're facing at the 

676
00:34:17,280 --> 00:34:19,239
city level. 
Remember, I'm the mayor of a 

677
00:34:19,239 --> 00:34:23,760
city in a big state, and my 
argument has been we need our 

678
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:26,600
governor leading the charge 
locally. 

679
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:30,239
And I know he's got his eyes set
elsewhere, which you know, is 

680
00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:34,719
his prerogative. 
But we need our governor driving

681
00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:38,239
change at the local level 
because we cannot address 

682
00:34:38,239 --> 00:34:41,639
homelessness, crime, high cost 
of housing and energy alone at 

683
00:34:41,639 --> 00:34:44,159
the city level. 
We are downstream of so many 

684
00:34:44,159 --> 00:34:47,800
state policies and spending 
decisions on homelessness and 

685
00:34:47,800 --> 00:34:49,960
crime. 
We hold maybe half of the 

686
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,960
answers, but if the governor and
the state legislature don't hold

687
00:34:52,960 --> 00:34:55,239
the counties accountable and 
California counties are 

688
00:34:55,239 --> 00:35:00,200
extremely powerful, lot of 
resources, lot of very broad 

689
00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,080
jurisdiction over the criminal 
justice system, behavioral 

690
00:35:03,080 --> 00:35:06,920
health, If we don't get our 
counties aligned around 

691
00:35:06,920 --> 00:35:10,360
solutions, we get blamed. 
I mean, like the mayors are 

692
00:35:10,360 --> 00:35:12,400
accountable. 
You I go to the grocery store 

693
00:35:12,400 --> 00:35:14,680
and it takes me two hours to get
through the grocery store 

694
00:35:14,680 --> 00:35:18,200
because people are angry and 
they want to tell me about all 

695
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:20,240
the problems. 
And you can't be like, well, the

696
00:35:20,240 --> 00:35:21,840
county does. 
I'm like, oh, the counties 

697
00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,520
should do this and the state has
this law and if only the 

698
00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:27,600
legislature would do that. 
So look, the governor and I have

699
00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:31,000
disagreed on a few pretty high 
profile things. 

700
00:35:31,000 --> 00:35:34,920
Prop 36, which was a criminal 
justice reform issue, sober 

701
00:35:34,920 --> 00:35:39,680
living environments. 
And I've just, my argument has 

702
00:35:39,680 --> 00:35:42,400
been, yes, it's, it's I 
understand what he's doing. 

703
00:35:42,520 --> 00:35:46,560
He's holding a mirror up to 
Donald Trump, who is a threat to

704
00:35:46,560 --> 00:35:50,240
our democracy, and I disagree 
with many of his policies. 

705
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:55,080
I also firmly believe that our 
failure to solve our biggest 

706
00:35:55,080 --> 00:35:59,040
problems in the country's 
largest and most prominent state

707
00:35:59,320 --> 00:36:04,840
has given the MAGA movement a 
tremendous amount of ammunition.

708
00:36:04,840 --> 00:36:08,160
It's a big part of what's giving
oxygen to this movement, and the

709
00:36:08,160 --> 00:36:11,680
best resistance is delivering 
results on the issues that 

710
00:36:11,680 --> 00:36:12,520
matter to people. 
But. 

711
00:36:12,520 --> 00:36:16,800
There are norms like, do you 
say, you know, these CEOs giving

712
00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:19,360
you money, like have more of a 
backbone? 

713
00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:22,840
You know, it's just, yeah, I 
just feel. 

714
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:25,160
Like, I'm intolation, to be 
perfectly honest, I don't spend 

715
00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:27,720
a lot of time with tech CEOs, 
but I don't, I mean, I used to. 

716
00:36:27,880 --> 00:36:29,960
They mail you a check and say 
yeah, 10 our mayor. 

717
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:33,800
Well, the, I mean, first of all,
most people don't realize this. 

718
00:36:34,320 --> 00:36:37,960
San Jose is the home of the 
workforce of tech. 

719
00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,480
We don't have a lot of tech 
CEO's who live in San Jose. 

720
00:36:40,480 --> 00:36:43,680
They live up in, you know, the 
fancy, you know, Palo Alto and 

721
00:36:43,680 --> 00:36:45,840
Atherton and maybe up in San 
Francisco. 

722
00:36:46,120 --> 00:36:48,440
We're a working city. 
We're people. 

723
00:36:48,440 --> 00:36:51,480
We're the, you know, the 
engineers and the designers and 

724
00:36:51,480 --> 00:36:55,000
the marketing folks and whatnot.
They live in San Jose. 

725
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:59,040
Those are my neighbors and 
they're excited about my 

726
00:36:59,040 --> 00:37:02,880
campaign because they see how 
much progress we've made in San 

727
00:37:02,880 --> 00:37:07,960
Jose by bringing this very, to 
be fair, a, a cultural element 

728
00:37:07,960 --> 00:37:09,840
of tech. 
The, the thing that I've done 

729
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,560
differently in City Hall over 
the last three plus years is 

730
00:37:14,560 --> 00:37:17,360
bring a performance management 
mindset into government. 

731
00:37:17,360 --> 00:37:20,240
I came in and was like we're, 
we're the, the failure motors. 

732
00:37:20,240 --> 00:37:22,480
We're trying to be everything to
everyone and it's not working. 

733
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:25,000
Let's pick no more than five 
things. 

734
00:37:25,080 --> 00:37:28,000
Let's be focused. 
Let's set actual goals. 

735
00:37:28,240 --> 00:37:29,800
Let's do the really 
uncomfortable thing of 

736
00:37:29,800 --> 00:37:31,800
publishing them on the city 
website. 

737
00:37:32,000 --> 00:37:35,640
Let's create some dashboards. 
Let's track the dollars we're 

738
00:37:35,640 --> 00:37:37,760
spending, the staff time we're 
allocating. 

739
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,120
Let's measure performance. 
Let's publish our performance 

740
00:37:41,360 --> 00:37:44,000
every 90 days. 
Let's look at it and reflect on 

741
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:47,280
it and let's start to create a 
feedback loop and be a little 

742
00:37:47,280 --> 00:37:51,560
more iterative so that every 90 
days to one year, which is every

743
00:37:51,560 --> 00:37:53,120
12 months, we do our budget 
cycle. 

744
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:56,800
We can make adjustments and say,
well, we're spending money here,

745
00:37:56,800 --> 00:37:59,360
but it's not actually leading to
any measurable improvement, so 

746
00:37:59,360 --> 00:38:02,360
maybe we need to change it. 
That's been the unlock for us. 

747
00:38:02,360 --> 00:38:05,720
And we've led the state in 
reducing homelessness, reducing 

748
00:38:05,720 --> 00:38:08,880
crime, reducing blight, speeding
up permitting. 

749
00:38:09,000 --> 00:38:11,480
We've got thousands of new homes
under construction. 

750
00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:15,120
It's been bringing focus and 
performance management to City 

751
00:38:15,120 --> 00:38:18,320
Hall, which is something that I 
get really excited about. 

752
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:21,720
And maybe in San Jose you can, 
you know, get constituents 

753
00:38:21,720 --> 00:38:23,960
excited about. 
And I appreciate that. 

754
00:38:23,960 --> 00:38:27,080
And I think that is sort of, 
you've enumerated a lot of the 

755
00:38:27,080 --> 00:38:29,800
virtues of the tech industry and
how they do business. 

756
00:38:30,280 --> 00:38:33,280
How do you, but how do we get 
some of the corruption out of 

757
00:38:33,280 --> 00:38:35,160
government? 
I mean, it's funny, I feel like 

758
00:38:35,160 --> 00:38:39,160
it's been the right who's been 
railing about corruption in 

759
00:38:39,160 --> 00:38:41,560
government. 
So I feel right wing saying it. 

760
00:38:41,560 --> 00:38:43,680
But you know, like some of the 
crypto stuff, the Trump 

761
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,240
administration is doing how they
want executives to treat them. 

762
00:38:47,240 --> 00:38:50,640
I mean, it is the biggest public
graft of like all time. 

763
00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:54,720
If we weren't dragged into 500 
different issues everyday, this 

764
00:38:54,720 --> 00:38:57,160
would be a huge 1. 
And it matters, you know, as a 

765
00:38:57,160 --> 00:39:01,080
business writer, because I'm 
trying to hold people, you know,

766
00:39:01,080 --> 00:39:03,960
there's, there are norms of 
business and it's like there are

767
00:39:03,960 --> 00:39:05,400
expectations of what you're 
supposed to do. 

768
00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:08,960
And if we descend as America 
into a culture where it's like, 

769
00:39:09,280 --> 00:39:12,120
I've got to get mine and like, 
you're a sucker if you don't do 

770
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:15,200
XYZ, like that's going to be 
like the death of America. 

771
00:39:15,200 --> 00:39:17,480
And so I don't know. 
Do you have any ideas on what we

772
00:39:17,480 --> 00:39:22,000
can do to regain a culture of 
honest dealing in in business, 

773
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:26,080
even as the president sort of 
begs people to to be dishonest? 

774
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:32,520
Yeah, I I think one of the big 
challenges really flows from the

775
00:39:32,520 --> 00:39:38,240
Citizens United notion that your
political spending is simply 

776
00:39:38,240 --> 00:39:43,920
speech and should be unlimited. 
And the disclosure, the piece 

777
00:39:43,920 --> 00:39:47,440
is, is important, it's valuable,
but it's sort of insufficient, 

778
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:50,400
the dynamic. 
And I'm much more familiar with 

779
00:39:50,400 --> 00:39:52,880
what happens within California 
because I've been serving at the

780
00:39:52,880 --> 00:39:55,920
city level and thinking about 
counties and how we interface 

781
00:39:55,920 --> 00:39:57,200
with our state government. 
But. 

782
00:39:57,200 --> 00:39:59,320
These are Californian businesses
that I'm worried about. 

783
00:39:59,360 --> 00:40:02,160
Yeah, that's, that's fair. 
I'm just saying I, I can give 

784
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:05,360
you the, the, I imagine it's the
same at the federal level. 

785
00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,440
I'm just not, I don't spend, I 
don't spend time in Washington, 

786
00:40:08,800 --> 00:40:12,080
But I mean, I've been maybe 
twice since I got elected mayor,

787
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:16,520
but I. 
I can tell you mechanistically 

788
00:40:16,520 --> 00:40:21,160
that the failure mode and the, 
the form of corruption, if you 

789
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,000
will, is not as straightforward 
as you might think, but it's, 

790
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,120
it's effectively there's a 
policy status quo that's in 

791
00:40:28,120 --> 00:40:31,880
place or, or maybe there's been 
a recent change. 

792
00:40:32,200 --> 00:40:35,280
But if it's not optimal for 
society and someone wants to 

793
00:40:35,280 --> 00:40:38,480
change it, you have a, an 
idealistic legislator who wants 

794
00:40:38,480 --> 00:40:40,360
to change something. 
I ran into this couple years 

795
00:40:40,360 --> 00:40:43,720
ago, getting a legislator, A 
legislator to carry a bill for 

796
00:40:43,720 --> 00:40:45,080
me. 
I can give you the example later

797
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:47,680
if you're interested. 
And we just ran into a buzz saw,

798
00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:52,240
special interest power and 
basically the groups, these 

799
00:40:52,240 --> 00:40:57,240
outside groups spend so much 
both lobbying off cycle. 

800
00:40:57,240 --> 00:41:00,480
They've got a full Time Team up 
there writing legislation, 

801
00:41:00,480 --> 00:41:03,000
taking people out to lunch, 
hanging out, just kind of 

802
00:41:03,000 --> 00:41:06,720
monitoring and spending a lot of
time and meshed within the 

803
00:41:06,720 --> 00:41:10,120
legislative world. 
And I mean, they spend so much 

804
00:41:10,120 --> 00:41:12,560
money around elections that it 
does. 

805
00:41:12,560 --> 00:41:15,080
I, I think for many of these 
legislators, it just becomes a 

806
00:41:15,080 --> 00:41:19,000
calculus of like, why would I 
take on changing the status quo 

807
00:41:19,000 --> 00:41:21,560
if it means that somebody's 
going to dump $1,000,000 in 

808
00:41:21,560 --> 00:41:24,080
negative ads against me and I'm 
going to lose my seat in two 

809
00:41:24,080 --> 00:41:26,800
years anyway. 
And that becomes the calculus. 

810
00:41:27,360 --> 00:41:31,280
And it's not clear enough to the
voters why change doesn't 

811
00:41:31,280 --> 00:41:33,000
happen. 
And I really believe that's the 

812
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,440
primary mechanism. 
There may be other things that 

813
00:41:35,440 --> 00:41:38,960
happened that I'm not aware of. 
But I tried to change this 

814
00:41:38,960 --> 00:41:42,040
construction defect law because 
it's it's having an impact on 

815
00:41:42,040 --> 00:41:45,160
our ability to get condos built.
And that matters because condos 

816
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:47,520
are the most accessible form of 
home ownership. 

817
00:41:48,120 --> 00:41:51,760
And basically Sacramento didn't 
want to touch it because it was 

818
00:41:51,760 --> 00:41:54,920
kind of like, well, the, you 
know, the travellers are really 

819
00:41:54,920 --> 00:41:58,520
powerful and they've sort of 
already come to an understanding

820
00:41:58,520 --> 00:42:00,600
with the building community. 
And there's just kind of like 

821
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:02,440
everybody's happy, Like don't, 
don't touch it. 

822
00:42:02,760 --> 00:42:03,960
Yeah. 
I mean, I'm sympathetic. 

823
00:42:03,960 --> 00:42:06,480
I mean, what you're saying 
California's complicated because

824
00:42:06,480 --> 00:42:09,280
it's like there are all sorts of
unions that have become 

825
00:42:09,280 --> 00:42:12,840
extremely powerful in a way, 
sometimes more powerful than 

826
00:42:12,840 --> 00:42:15,800
through the big business. 
World by spending the most, but 

827
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:19,280
yeah. 
I mean, I guess I'm, I'm more 

828
00:42:19,280 --> 00:42:22,480
incensed on the sort of like I'm
going to cozy up to Trump 

829
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,520
specifically and then he's going
to use the antitrust authority 

830
00:42:25,520 --> 00:42:26,880
or whatever. 
Yeah, let me. 

831
00:42:27,160 --> 00:42:28,920
Well, OK, so let's talk about 
that. 

832
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:32,840
I mean, I, I think what is 
really, yeah, I think it's 

833
00:42:32,840 --> 00:42:36,240
incredibly concerning. 
I think unfortunately tech 

834
00:42:36,240 --> 00:42:40,160
didn't engage in politics for so
long and which was probably a 

835
00:42:40,160 --> 00:42:42,120
good thing. 
And I think the culture for a 

836
00:42:42,120 --> 00:42:45,720
long time was avoidance. 
Tech was like, hey, I'm we're 

837
00:42:45,720 --> 00:42:48,760
out here in California, let us 
do our thing, leave us alone. 

838
00:42:48,760 --> 00:42:52,760
There was this very libertarian 
undercurrent that still I think 

839
00:42:52,760 --> 00:42:54,640
largely exists in Silicon 
Valley. 

840
00:42:55,000 --> 00:43:00,480
And but then as tech became more
powerful and government started 

841
00:43:00,480 --> 00:43:03,800
to engage, suddenly I think they
realized how to play the game. 

842
00:43:03,800 --> 00:43:07,880
And now they've figured it out 
at a scale and in a way that is 

843
00:43:07,880 --> 00:43:11,640
that is more powerful than 
almost any other industry. 

844
00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:15,080
And it's, it's really, it is 
concerning. 

845
00:43:15,440 --> 00:43:19,920
I think the, the question, well,
one, I don't think tech's 

846
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:21,600
monolithic. 
I think we have to take it sub 

847
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,360
industry by sub industry. 
So like crypto, you make a 

848
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:26,640
great, you make a great point, 
right? 

849
00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,160
There are other elements of 
technology like, I don't know, 

850
00:43:31,080 --> 00:43:35,080
solar and batteries, like that's
tech, but it's a different kind 

851
00:43:35,080 --> 00:43:37,400
of tech that I'm less, I'm less 
worried about. 

852
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:39,920
And the startup economy 
generally, like, I believe in 

853
00:43:39,920 --> 00:43:43,440
that philosophy. 
I think that is, yeah, it's 

854
00:43:43,440 --> 00:43:44,880
great. 
It's like create new businesses.

855
00:43:44,880 --> 00:43:47,800
Now, sometimes they're worried 
about regulation on stuff like 

856
00:43:47,840 --> 00:43:50,960
AI because, you know, 
regulations can protect the big 

857
00:43:50,960 --> 00:43:52,280
businesses and hurt the small 
ones. 

858
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:55,600
But generally, I think, you 
know, the startup agenda is good

859
00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:58,920
for America by and large. 
Yeah, I think so. 

860
00:43:58,920 --> 00:44:01,800
I think our our entrepreneurship
is a real strength and all that 

861
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:04,720
creativity and dynamism and we 
we want to be at the fore. 

862
00:44:04,720 --> 00:44:07,680
What do you make, You know, 
Congressman Ro Khanna has 

863
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:10,720
clearly made the calculation 
that tech is not is very 

864
00:44:10,720 --> 00:44:13,520
unpopular. 
Like, yeah, yeah, you're running

865
00:44:13,520 --> 00:44:16,800
for governor, you know, not so 
friendly. 

866
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:17,880
Like, I've learned a lot from 
tech. 

867
00:44:17,880 --> 00:44:20,640
And I don't know what do you 
make of his political calculus 

868
00:44:20,640 --> 00:44:23,760
here, or this is just true 
belief, or what do you make of 

869
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,240
his sort of turn against the 
hometown industry? 

870
00:44:28,040 --> 00:44:30,360
Yeah, it's so noteworthy. 
I I try not to spend a lot of 

871
00:44:30,360 --> 00:44:33,680
time serving this work. 
With people as political. 

872
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:37,920
Pundit, I mean, I I've openly 
and publicly disagreed with the 

873
00:44:37,920 --> 00:44:40,840
Congress member on the on his 
position on the wealth tax and I

874
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,600
already gave you my my main 
reasons why I really just the 

875
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:46,880
unintended consequences of it. 
I don't know. 

876
00:44:46,880 --> 00:44:48,360
Just wealth tax, it's like 
everything. 

877
00:44:48,480 --> 00:44:50,560
He feels like he's looking for a
fight. 

878
00:44:50,680 --> 00:44:52,960
Yeah, I don't know what else 
what else lately. 

879
00:44:52,960 --> 00:44:55,640
I don't know, I'm not following.
Up to it. 

880
00:44:56,280 --> 00:44:58,120
Well, one of the big 
discussions, and I don't know so

881
00:44:58,120 --> 00:45:02,480
that he's weighed in on this, 
but here's another one where I 

882
00:45:02,480 --> 00:45:04,600
have concerns. 
There's this question of when 

883
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:06,040
does a human need to be in the 
loop? 

884
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,720
And at the at the high level, 
the idea that a human should be 

885
00:45:09,720 --> 00:45:14,520
able to review decisions that 
involve safety, certainly life 

886
00:45:14,520 --> 00:45:16,560
and death decisions sounds 
really good. 

887
00:45:16,560 --> 00:45:19,880
It makes a lot of sense. 
But the details really matter. 

888
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,680
There's a push right now to say,
well, the the logical extension 

889
00:45:24,680 --> 00:45:27,160
of that principle is that we 
should have a human in every 

890
00:45:27,160 --> 00:45:29,760
autonomous vehicle because you 
never know, there could be a 

891
00:45:29,760 --> 00:45:32,640
case where the human needs to 
override what the vehicle does. 

892
00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:37,480
Now, the data is already pretty 
clear from way MO, for example, 

893
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:41,080
that the autonomous vehicles on 
autonomous vehicles on average 

894
00:45:41,080 --> 00:45:42,960
are much safer than human 
drivers. 

895
00:45:42,960 --> 00:45:46,280
And so there's this big tug of 
war going on where, you know, 

896
00:45:46,280 --> 00:45:49,880
largely, you know, labour unions
who don't want to see job 

897
00:45:49,880 --> 00:45:51,520
displacement. 
And they're right to worry about

898
00:45:51,520 --> 00:45:52,320
it. 
I'm worried about job 

899
00:45:52,320 --> 00:45:54,760
displacement. 
It's a very legitimate concern, 

900
00:45:55,080 --> 00:46:00,360
but may lead to a sort of 
ossification of society, pushing

901
00:46:00,560 --> 00:46:03,280
innovation out and say, well, 
we've got to have a human in 

902
00:46:03,280 --> 00:46:05,800
every vehicle, which completely 
defeats the point. 

903
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:07,720
Yeah. 
I'm a radical on this issue for 

904
00:46:07,720 --> 00:46:09,080
sure. 
It's like, what are we fighting 

905
00:46:09,080 --> 00:46:10,240
for? 
Horse drawn carriages. 

906
00:46:10,240 --> 00:46:11,560
Still, that's kind of my point. 
You. 

907
00:46:11,560 --> 00:46:13,400
Spend time in a way MO it's like
this. 

908
00:46:13,400 --> 00:46:15,880
Is it works? 
So much better and and as 

909
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:19,080
progressives should love them in
that like cars kill people and 

910
00:46:19,080 --> 00:46:20,240
like. 
Yeah, you can, yeah. 

911
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,600
They could be central, You could
control them more from the 

912
00:46:22,600 --> 00:46:23,960
government. 
You could also go here. 

913
00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:25,960
You can't go this fast. 
You can't like I'm. 

914
00:46:26,160 --> 00:46:29,600
The least popular guy on the 
board of our transit agency, 

915
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,680
Because I keep talking about 
autonomy as part of the future 

916
00:46:32,680 --> 00:46:37,520
of transit because it frankly 
will allow us to offer a better 

917
00:46:37,520 --> 00:46:40,720
service to more people more 
quickly and more efficiently. 

918
00:46:40,720 --> 00:46:42,280
And we need to plan for it. 
And if you think of the. 

919
00:46:42,360 --> 00:46:44,640
Elderly who can't drive, you 
know, there's so many 

920
00:46:44,640 --> 00:46:47,480
progressive the disabled. 
Sorry, I know I'm preaching to 

921
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,880
the converted here, but. 
So that's the optimistic side of

922
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:52,160
tech. 
I mean, I think with tech it's 

923
00:46:52,160 --> 00:46:55,080
always OK. 
You get new capabilities that 

924
00:46:55,080 --> 00:46:58,800
can make life better and you 
want to maximize the deployment 

925
00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:02,240
of new tools that make people's 
lives better while minimizing 

926
00:47:02,240 --> 00:47:08,200
the whether it's privacy risk or
the the loss of agency or the 

927
00:47:08,200 --> 00:47:12,560
political corruption. 
To your point, and it's yeah, I 

928
00:47:12,560 --> 00:47:14,880
just, I don't think there's an 
easy answer though, to how to 

929
00:47:15,680 --> 00:47:17,640
how to. 
I mean, regulation is really the

930
00:47:17,640 --> 00:47:20,840
primary answer to curbing the 
excesses, Do you? 

931
00:47:20,960 --> 00:47:23,040
Think. 
But we have to get it right 

932
00:47:23,040 --> 00:47:26,080
because we could also just push 
it to other, not just other. 

933
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:29,360
States, but other country, I 
mean at once it's like you're 

934
00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:33,440
saying I don't know California 
is one of the top 10. 

935
00:47:34,280 --> 00:47:35,880
If, if it was, you know, it's 
own country, it'd be. 

936
00:47:35,880 --> 00:47:37,720
What number 4 or? 
5 Right, exactly. 

937
00:47:38,600 --> 00:47:40,320
By GDP. 
By GDP, yeah. 

938
00:47:40,760 --> 00:47:43,920
So by that argument it's like 
take some responsibility, 

939
00:47:43,920 --> 00:47:46,520
regulate, you know, come up with
your own regulations. 

940
00:47:46,520 --> 00:47:48,320
This is a big place with a lot 
of people. 

941
00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:51,680
We have our own views and 
obviously there have been what I

942
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:54,200
think auto regulations, right, 
with fuel economy. 

943
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:55,840
There have been areas where 
California is, yeah, 

944
00:47:55,840 --> 00:47:58,240
particularly. 
On environmental policy, we've 

945
00:47:58,240 --> 00:48:01,240
often been out in front. 
So how much do you think 

946
00:48:01,480 --> 00:48:04,440
California should embrace that 
when it comes to the tech 

947
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:08,200
industry versus taking a posture
of these need to be federal 

948
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:10,480
because you're going to scare 
out industry from our state? 

949
00:48:10,760 --> 00:48:13,320
Yeah, again, this is going to be
an unsatisfying answer. 

950
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:15,800
I I think it depends on the type
of regulation. 

951
00:48:15,800 --> 00:48:19,160
I I do, I am generally a 
believer in the notion of 

952
00:48:19,160 --> 00:48:21,920
decentralization. 
And you know, we're not France 

953
00:48:21,920 --> 00:48:23,400
where everything emanates from 
Paris. 

954
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:27,480
We are, we have 50 states. 
Those states are laboratories I 

955
00:48:27,480 --> 00:48:30,240
have pushed back against. 
There was a bill somebody 

956
00:48:30,240 --> 00:48:32,920
proposed that would have allowed
every city in California to 

957
00:48:32,920 --> 00:48:35,800
regulate autonomous vehicles. 
And I was very much against that

958
00:48:35,800 --> 00:48:40,120
for obvious reasons. 
But when it comes to this 

959
00:48:40,120 --> 00:48:44,440
evolving policy landscape, given
how close we are to what's 

960
00:48:44,440 --> 00:48:48,800
changing in California in this 
area, I think it makes sense for

961
00:48:48,800 --> 00:48:51,920
us to be able to regulate. 
I mean, we, we need to figure 

962
00:48:51,920 --> 00:48:54,080
out how to protect our children.
I think we've, we've made a lot 

963
00:48:54,080 --> 00:48:55,880
of progress. 
Now you're seeing cell phones 

964
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,440
being banned in schools, which I
think is a good thing. 

965
00:48:58,920 --> 00:49:01,160
It's crazy. 
Isn't a new parent just the 

966
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,400
idea? 
It's just like everybody in tech

967
00:49:04,000 --> 00:49:05,400
knows about the danger of 
phones. 

968
00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:07,320
That's the other irony. 
It's like, I feel like people in

969
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:09,600
the industry are like, I don't 
know, don't let my kids on the 

970
00:49:09,600 --> 00:49:10,640
phone. 
I think that's right. 

971
00:49:10,640 --> 00:49:13,200
I think people in tech are less 
likely to have their kids using 

972
00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:15,400
devices all day or if at all, 
right. 

973
00:49:15,400 --> 00:49:18,440
I mean, we're, we're pretty anti
screen in, in our home and 

974
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:20,920
really very cognizant of the 
risks. 

975
00:49:21,280 --> 00:49:23,520
So I think protecting our 
children's a no brainer. 

976
00:49:23,520 --> 00:49:26,320
I would not want to wait for the
federal government to figure 

977
00:49:26,320 --> 00:49:28,480
something out. 
If a state wants to experiment 

978
00:49:28,480 --> 00:49:31,080
with basic, you know, privacy 
safety. 

979
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:36,600
We just passed a bunch of 
changes policies in San Jose 

980
00:49:36,800 --> 00:49:39,360
that really limit how we use our
license plate readers. 

981
00:49:39,360 --> 00:49:42,200
So on the one hand, automated 
license plate readers are very 

982
00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:45,760
powerful law enforcement tool. 
On the other hand, I, I, you 

983
00:49:45,760 --> 00:49:50,360
know, we don't want to create a,
we don't do facial recognition. 

984
00:49:50,360 --> 00:49:52,800
We don't want to create a 
surveillance state, some sort of

985
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:56,480
Big Brother where we've stored 
all of your movements for all 

986
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:59,120
time. 
And now we can go back and I 

987
00:49:59,120 --> 00:50:01,400
think it'd be really creepy to 
kind of know everything about 

988
00:50:01,400 --> 00:50:03,840
where you've ever gone. 
So we delete all the data every 

989
00:50:03,840 --> 00:50:05,840
30 days. 
So it's really useful in the 

990
00:50:05,840 --> 00:50:07,920
short run if there's a crime to 
be able to say, well, we need to

991
00:50:07,920 --> 00:50:10,560
respond and figure out who did 
this and apprehend the person 

992
00:50:10,800 --> 00:50:14,280
and, and have enough evidence. 
But on the other hand, we're 

993
00:50:14,280 --> 00:50:17,640
really limiting what we collect,
how we collect it. 

994
00:50:17,640 --> 00:50:20,640
We're very transparent. 
We tell people what what we 

995
00:50:20,640 --> 00:50:23,480
collect and why. 
And we have very strict data 

996
00:50:23,480 --> 00:50:25,840
retention policies, meaning we 
delete the data regularly. 

997
00:50:25,840 --> 00:50:30,360
So we're, we're regulating tech 
at the local level, which is it 

998
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:31,800
depends on the right, right. 
Right. 

999
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:34,040
And I mean, that's the answer 
that makes sense that it depends

1000
00:50:34,040 --> 00:50:36,200
on the issue and you don't want 
to like give away the total 

1001
00:50:36,200 --> 00:50:38,920
authority, but you know, you 
sort of have to take a balanced 

1002
00:50:38,920 --> 00:50:44,200
approach and and on AI 
specifically, like are you using

1003
00:50:44,200 --> 00:50:46,400
language models? 
Like how, I mean, you said you 

1004
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,200
were enthusiasts about about 
autonomous, but the sort of 

1005
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:50,760
other pieces of what's happening
in AI. 

1006
00:50:50,760 --> 00:50:54,040
Are you a big user? 
And like, what's your view of, I

1007
00:50:54,040 --> 00:50:56,120
don't know, the rate of progress
and how much this is going to be

1008
00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:58,880
a concern for government, for 
the next governor? 

1009
00:50:59,720 --> 00:51:03,080
Yeah, I do use models. 
I, I don't, I wouldn't say I'm a

1010
00:51:03,080 --> 00:51:07,240
power user, but I, I certainly 
find that there's a, there's a 

1011
00:51:07,240 --> 00:51:10,120
different and and very 
meaningful use case over and 

1012
00:51:10,120 --> 00:51:12,960
above search. 
Obviously, we've created a 

1013
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:18,960
custom GPT around our budget 
process where we've uploaded 

1014
00:51:18,960 --> 00:51:23,160
past budget documents and then 
generated insights in a way that

1015
00:51:23,320 --> 00:51:25,240
would have taken a lot of manual
work. 

1016
00:51:25,520 --> 00:51:28,640
I'm especially excited though, 
about how city workers are using

1017
00:51:28,640 --> 00:51:30,720
these tools. 
We have city employees who have 

1018
00:51:30,720 --> 00:51:35,200
gone through our AI upskilling 
course, built a custom GPT for 

1019
00:51:35,200 --> 00:51:38,400
whatever their job function is. 
A couple that come to mind are 

1020
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:42,880
one woman in our Department of 
Transportation was applying for 

1021
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:48,560
a grant, put various documents 
into a GPT and refined her 

1022
00:51:48,560 --> 00:51:51,280
application. 
And then when that grant, it was

1023
00:51:51,280 --> 00:51:54,680
a federal grant that the Trump 
administration then basically 

1024
00:51:54,680 --> 00:51:59,200
invalidated she because she had 
this tool and it ingested all of

1025
00:51:59,200 --> 00:52:02,120
this information. 
She was able to quickly pivot 

1026
00:52:02,120 --> 00:52:04,440
and apply for a different grant 
at the state level and she 

1027
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:07,120
secured dollars, but she never 
would have made the deadline had

1028
00:52:07,120 --> 00:52:10,160
she needed to basically like 
manually start from scratch 

1029
00:52:10,160 --> 00:52:12,640
again. 
And then we've got a, we've got 

1030
00:52:12,640 --> 00:52:15,760
somebody in our, I think it's in
our IT department who took our 

1031
00:52:15,760 --> 00:52:18,680
311 data. 
And as people are calling in 

1032
00:52:18,680 --> 00:52:21,760
for, you know, potholes and 
graffiti and, and different 

1033
00:52:21,760 --> 00:52:24,600
service calls, there's our one 
of the biggest categories, of 

1034
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,840
course, is other where it's not,
it's not well classified. 

1035
00:52:28,040 --> 00:52:33,200
He basically built a classifier 
that saves 500 hours a year of, 

1036
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:35,960
of what was previously a lot of 
manual classification. 

1037
00:52:35,960 --> 00:52:39,320
So I think there are a lot of 
interesting applications of 

1038
00:52:39,320 --> 00:52:41,160
these tools. 
I generally think, though, that 

1039
00:52:41,160 --> 00:52:44,080
if we invest in people and their
training and education and 

1040
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:47,360
expose them to these tools, 
particularly at a young age, and

1041
00:52:47,360 --> 00:52:51,000
give them some guardrails and 
the confidence to experiment, 

1042
00:52:51,400 --> 00:52:53,520
they'll figure out how to adapt 
the tools. 

1043
00:52:53,520 --> 00:52:57,960
And you may see tasks automated.
But most of the jobs we do 

1044
00:52:57,960 --> 00:53:02,440
inside City Hall at least are 
complex enough that I don't 

1045
00:53:02,440 --> 00:53:03,760
think they're going to be 
eliminated. 

1046
00:53:03,760 --> 00:53:05,600
I think they'll be enhanced by. 
A. 

1047
00:53:05,600 --> 00:53:10,240
Do you think there are any 
circumstances where, you know, 

1048
00:53:10,240 --> 00:53:14,840
states should embrace what the 
New Jersey like gasoline 

1049
00:53:14,840 --> 00:53:18,720
attendant model, where it's like
we need to protect jobs in this 

1050
00:53:18,720 --> 00:53:21,240
industry because things are 
being disrupted too fast? 

1051
00:53:21,240 --> 00:53:26,680
Like, are jobs alone a reason to
slow the pace of AI development 

1052
00:53:26,680 --> 00:53:31,840
or to sort of make make rules? 
I'm hesitant because I don't 

1053
00:53:31,840 --> 00:53:35,680
know at that point, as you 
create that constituency around 

1054
00:53:36,440 --> 00:53:39,920
jobs that otherwise wouldn't 
exist, how you make the 

1055
00:53:39,920 --> 00:53:42,280
decision, if ever, to eliminate 
them. 

1056
00:53:42,320 --> 00:53:48,960
And so I think that in the long 
run, it is better to allow 

1057
00:53:49,280 --> 00:53:52,400
innovation, though we do have to
buffer. 

1058
00:53:52,400 --> 00:53:55,400
So, So really the question is we
have to buffer people from the 

1059
00:53:55,400 --> 00:53:59,000
impacts of technological change.
Technological change generally 

1060
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:01,520
leads us to a place where there 
are a number of benefits, but 

1061
00:54:01,520 --> 00:54:05,800
the transition is really hard. 
So the question is just how to 

1062
00:54:05,800 --> 00:54:09,120
best buffer people. 
One is you try to freeze things 

1063
00:54:09,120 --> 00:54:12,080
in place and say these jobs have
to exist, even if they're no 

1064
00:54:12,080 --> 00:54:13,920
longer necessary or very 
productive. 

1065
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:15,760
We're just going to create the 
jobs because we want people to 

1066
00:54:15,760 --> 00:54:17,640
be working. 
I feel like that kind of 

1067
00:54:17,640 --> 00:54:21,280
devalues those workers in that 
work and eventually it may kind 

1068
00:54:21,280 --> 00:54:23,920
of seem like a farce and they 
may feel like why am I doing 

1069
00:54:23,920 --> 00:54:26,680
this thing that I don't need to 
do? 

1070
00:54:26,680 --> 00:54:28,600
So I'm a little skeptical of 
that approach. 

1071
00:54:29,040 --> 00:54:32,600
I think another approach, of 
course, is a Ubi, although that 

1072
00:54:32,600 --> 00:54:35,280
also doesn't, there's no work 
involved with that, right? 

1073
00:54:35,280 --> 00:54:38,360
So that's another way of sort of
protecting people, but it 

1074
00:54:38,360 --> 00:54:41,400
doesn't particularly value work.
And then there's my preference, 

1075
00:54:41,400 --> 00:54:44,320
and I would hope that this would
manage most of the transition, 

1076
00:54:44,320 --> 00:54:47,720
even if you need some of the 
other two categories, is to 

1077
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:51,760
invest early and often in the 
training, the skills, the access

1078
00:54:51,760 --> 00:54:56,000
to tools, and allow people 
themselves to create new jobs, 

1079
00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:58,760
new companies, evolve their 
existing jobs and become more 

1080
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:01,000
productive. 
Now that's idealistic, but I do 

1081
00:55:01,000 --> 00:55:02,880
see evidence of that happening. 
We're doing that City Hall. 

1082
00:55:02,880 --> 00:55:05,880
We have 1000 workers going 
through our AI upskilling course

1083
00:55:06,040 --> 00:55:09,120
and they're changing in their 
jobs by applying these tools in 

1084
00:55:09,120 --> 00:55:10,760
new ways. 
And that that's actually what 

1085
00:55:10,760 --> 00:55:14,280
happened with past information 
technology people. 

1086
00:55:14,280 --> 00:55:19,360
We started using smartphones 
before that PCs, you know, the 

1087
00:55:19,360 --> 00:55:23,000
word, the office suite. 
I mean it's, you know, so you 

1088
00:55:23,000 --> 00:55:24,560
know, we started using Excel 
spreadsheets. 

1089
00:55:25,160 --> 00:55:29,960
Most of those did not 
dramatically destroy jobs so 

1090
00:55:29,960 --> 00:55:32,240
much as change the way the jobs 
were done. 

1091
00:55:32,640 --> 00:55:34,760
Right. 
I mean, I feel like one of my 

1092
00:55:34,760 --> 00:55:39,160
more AI pilled concerns is just,
yeah, I mean, you hear like Sam 

1093
00:55:39,160 --> 00:55:42,800
Altman talk about it and just 
this access to AI and sort of 

1094
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:46,800
intelligence is going to be 
another sort of dividing line in

1095
00:55:46,800 --> 00:55:50,520
who has sort of. 
So I'll make a point on that, 

1096
00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,440
which it's only a starting point
and we have a, we have a lot of 

1097
00:55:53,440 --> 00:55:56,480
work to do here. 
But last year we launched AI for

1098
00:55:56,480 --> 00:56:00,840
all and San Jose became the 
first city in the world to get 3

1099
00:56:00,840 --> 00:56:05,160
of the leading AI companies. 
So Google Anthropic and Open AI 

1100
00:56:05,560 --> 00:56:08,880
to collaborate. 
And that we created a portal 

1101
00:56:08,880 --> 00:56:12,120
through our websites with this 
this Lander on our website at 

1102
00:56:12,120 --> 00:56:14,960
the through our library where 
anyone with a library cards, 

1103
00:56:14,960 --> 00:56:20,240
that's 700,000 people in San 
Jose get access to the tools 

1104
00:56:20,600 --> 00:56:22,960
training, including self-guided 
tutorials. 

1105
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:26,000
We're doing some in person 
trainings and then there are 

1106
00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:31,080
some licenses for unique courses
that in some cases would be 

1107
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:32,480
paid. 
And so we're trying to get these

1108
00:56:32,480 --> 00:56:36,320
companies to start opening up 
more of the tools and training 

1109
00:56:36,320 --> 00:56:38,080
for anyone through our library 
system. 

1110
00:56:39,520 --> 00:56:43,320
I'm, I'm going back to the Trump
thing because honestly, I feel 

1111
00:56:43,320 --> 00:56:48,800
like I agree with you and sort 
of tonally on a lot of it, but 

1112
00:56:48,800 --> 00:56:53,040
the one I'm concerned about is 
just if we become more anti 

1113
00:56:53,040 --> 00:56:55,880
democratic on the federal level,
like are you what do? 

1114
00:56:56,320 --> 00:56:58,320
You mean more well? 
It's just like if like we don't 

1115
00:56:58,320 --> 00:57:02,360
have a free, we don't have free 
election or like not not anti 

1116
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:04,960
democratic like the Democratic. 
Party does more like succeed 

1117
00:57:04,960 --> 00:57:06,520
but. 
We become more authoritarian 

1118
00:57:06,520 --> 00:57:11,040
like California in particular 
has an important role to play in

1119
00:57:11,040 --> 00:57:14,040
like standing up for the 
American like Democratic 

1120
00:57:14,080 --> 00:57:16,200
project. 
And what makes you feel like 

1121
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,280
you're prepared to take on that 
mantle? 

1122
00:57:19,280 --> 00:57:22,440
Well, even as mayor, we've sued 
the Trump administration. 

1123
00:57:22,440 --> 00:57:25,720
I mean, we've, we've joined a 
number of lawsuits and we've 

1124
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:28,880
passed local regulations much 
more limited than what I think 

1125
00:57:28,880 --> 00:57:32,240
we can do at the state level. 
But there's no doubt California 

1126
00:57:32,240 --> 00:57:36,480
has a critical role to play in 
offering a a counterpoint, in 

1127
00:57:36,480 --> 00:57:39,880
fact, showing that our values 
work and practice and are are 

1128
00:57:39,880 --> 00:57:43,080
distinct from and better than 
what Trump is offering. 

1129
00:57:43,440 --> 00:57:45,680
But also using the power of our 
legal team. 

1130
00:57:46,320 --> 00:57:51,520
Our attorney general has been, 
has done a great job of, you 

1131
00:57:51,520 --> 00:57:56,440
know, really prosecuting the 
case against Trump's overreach 

1132
00:57:56,440 --> 00:58:00,080
and abuse of power, from 
withholding funds to the 

1133
00:58:00,080 --> 00:58:04,000
birthright citizenship issue to 
reproductive rights and so 

1134
00:58:04,000 --> 00:58:06,680
forth. 
And so I, I think continuing to 

1135
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:12,720
use the law, the bully pulpit 
and the power of a, a better 

1136
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:16,440
example, I suppose you could say
are, are some of the tools in 

1137
00:58:16,440 --> 00:58:19,240
our, in our toolkit. 
But I just, I think there are 

1138
00:58:19,240 --> 00:58:26,360
limits to the rhetorical game. 
It's as important as it is, I 

1139
00:58:26,360 --> 00:58:29,480
don't think we're going to out 
meme Donald Trump or that we're 

1140
00:58:29,480 --> 00:58:32,040
going to beat him on XI. 
Think it's going to be 

1141
00:58:32,040 --> 00:58:36,280
ultimately in the in the courts 
and in delivering better 

1142
00:58:36,280 --> 00:58:38,640
outcomes and getting people to 
actually vote with their feet 

1143
00:58:38,640 --> 00:58:40,160
and want to come back to blue 
states. 

1144
00:58:40,400 --> 00:58:43,240
What is your path to being 
governor like? 

1145
00:58:43,240 --> 00:58:46,400
What can people watching this 
podcast do to support the 

1146
00:58:46,400 --> 00:58:49,440
campaign? 
So I'm at Mahan for 

1147
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:53,200
california.com is the website. 
You can find me all over, all 

1148
00:58:53,200 --> 00:58:56,040
over social media, as you would 
expect, I mean. 

1149
00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:00,800
Mom, Donnie, I feel like he won 
on TikTok or like, have you 

1150
00:59:00,800 --> 00:59:03,640
figured out and you're a guy, 
you know, like the social media 

1151
00:59:03,640 --> 00:59:04,040
stuff? 
Yeah. 

1152
00:59:04,520 --> 00:59:06,680
What do you do? 
You feel like you've found your 

1153
00:59:06,680 --> 00:59:08,440
platform. 
I think mom Donnie would say 

1154
00:59:08,440 --> 00:59:11,080
that he that he won in a lot of 
different ways. 

1155
00:59:11,080 --> 00:59:12,360
I think social media was part of
it. 

1156
00:59:12,360 --> 00:59:14,040
He he really highlighted the 
door knocking. 

1157
00:59:14,040 --> 00:59:15,920
I know they do. 
Not like the video I mean. 

1158
00:59:15,920 --> 00:59:17,240
I think the videos were 
powerful. 

1159
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:18,440
Those were good. 
Don't underestimate. 

1160
00:59:18,440 --> 00:59:21,560
He also spent more on television
than Cuomo, so it wasn't just a 

1161
00:59:21,560 --> 00:59:24,200
single all. 
All campaigns are multi channel 

1162
00:59:24,200 --> 00:59:26,480
and they try to reach people 
from every angle. 

1163
00:59:26,600 --> 00:59:28,680
And that's not to take anything 
away from what he did. 

1164
00:59:28,680 --> 00:59:34,480
I mean, I, I think the way that 
they used short form video is, 

1165
00:59:35,200 --> 00:59:37,120
you know, pretty inspired. 
I think it's very powerful and 

1166
00:59:37,120 --> 00:59:41,360
we're, we're doing our best to 
kind of adapt, you know, to 

1167
00:59:41,360 --> 00:59:44,080
those mediums and, and find our 
own footing there. 

1168
00:59:44,080 --> 00:59:46,160
It won't, you know, my policies 
are not the same. 

1169
00:59:46,160 --> 00:59:50,400
Obviously I'm much more centrist
And so, but we're, we're the, 

1170
00:59:50,440 --> 00:59:53,800
the medium itself, the media 
are, are quite powerful. 

1171
00:59:54,000 --> 00:59:58,160
So yeah, people can find me on 
Instagram and TikTok. 

1172
00:59:58,160 --> 01:00:01,560
The election the the primary is 
June 2nd and in California we 

1173
01:00:01,560 --> 01:00:05,360
thankfully we have. 
An open top two primary, meaning

1174
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:08,240
whether you're a Democrat, 
independent or Republican, you 

1175
01:00:08,240 --> 01:00:12,160
can still vote for me. 
If you want to see common sense 

1176
01:00:12,160 --> 01:00:15,440
leadership that actually is 
focused on solving our biggest 

1177
01:00:15,440 --> 01:00:18,040
problems in California and 
providing that that very real 

1178
01:00:18,040 --> 01:00:20,720
counterpoint to the Trump 
administration. 

1179
01:00:20,720 --> 01:00:23,640
That's what I'm all about. 
And we've. 

1180
01:00:23,640 --> 01:00:25,960
Yeah, we've had a great start. 
I only jumped in a few weeks 

1181
01:00:25,960 --> 01:00:28,440
ago. 
I'm starting with low name ID. 

1182
01:00:29,080 --> 01:00:30,360
So I was late. 
Yeah. 

1183
01:00:30,640 --> 01:00:33,040
Yeah. 
Well, I mean late I guess is 

1184
01:00:33,120 --> 01:00:35,400
it's very subjective, but I 
jumped in later than I was the 

1185
01:00:35,400 --> 01:00:38,080
last major candidate. 
Were you still sort of deciding 

1186
01:00:38,160 --> 01:00:39,960
or? 
You know, to be perfectly 

1187
01:00:39,960 --> 01:00:42,240
honest, I wasn't planning to do 
it at least last year. 

1188
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:46,040
I I've love being mayor. 
I've got a great job and my wife

1189
01:00:46,040 --> 01:00:47,880
loves her day job. 
We have two little kids. 

1190
01:00:47,880 --> 01:00:50,440
They're happy in their schools 
and on their soccer teams. 

1191
01:00:50,680 --> 01:00:54,760
Our plan, if you will, was not 
to try to go move to Sacramento 

1192
01:00:54,760 --> 01:00:58,800
and take on this task. 
But I was watching the race last

1193
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,040
year, which is when all the 
other candidates got in. 

1194
01:01:01,040 --> 01:01:06,200
And as we got to the beginning 
of of this year, there just felt

1195
01:01:06,200 --> 01:01:08,000
to me to be a huge void in the 
race. 

1196
01:01:08,000 --> 01:01:11,480
I actually got home early 
January from a transit board 

1197
01:01:11,480 --> 01:01:13,640
meeting and my wife looked, it 
was probably about 10:30 at 

1198
01:01:13,640 --> 01:01:15,440
night and she just looked at me 
and said, I think you need to 

1199
01:01:15,440 --> 01:01:19,480
get in this race, which was my 
jaw hit the floor because she, 

1200
01:01:19,560 --> 01:01:21,160
you know, we both know what that
means. 

1201
01:01:21,160 --> 01:01:23,680
I mean, I've, I've been on the 
road almost non-stop. 

1202
01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:26,960
It's a big state here. 
I am with you out of New York. 

1203
01:01:26,960 --> 01:01:30,560
Here in New York City all over. 
The place and we have little 

1204
01:01:30,560 --> 01:01:32,480
kids, so it's been hard on our 
family. 

1205
01:01:32,480 --> 01:01:36,760
But you know, Sylvia, my wife, 
like me, is concerned. 

1206
01:01:36,760 --> 01:01:40,760
We're worried about this rising 
populism on the right, the 

1207
01:01:40,760 --> 01:01:46,440
reaction on the left, and this 
sort of people looking for easy 

1208
01:01:46,440 --> 01:01:50,520
answers rather than a real 
clarity around the the 

1209
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:53,640
limitations we face, the real 
tradeoffs we face, what's 

1210
01:01:53,640 --> 01:01:56,000
realistic, what we should expect
from our government. 

1211
01:01:56,240 --> 01:01:59,200
We need to rebuild trust in 
government and I don't think we 

1212
01:01:59,200 --> 01:02:04,000
do that by being the loudest, 
the most sensational, the most 

1213
01:02:04,000 --> 01:02:08,400
gratuitous in our politics. 
We've increased trust in City 

1214
01:02:08,400 --> 01:02:14,480
Hall in San Jose and my time as 
mayor by 40% by delivering 

1215
01:02:14,680 --> 01:02:17,960
results for people, by speeding 
up the buses, filling the 

1216
01:02:17,960 --> 01:02:21,040
potholes, reducing homelessness,
reducing crime, cleaning up the 

1217
01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:24,880
streets, speeding up permitting.
You get government start working

1218
01:02:24,880 --> 01:02:30,480
again and you take that oxygen 
away from anti Democratic again,

1219
01:02:30,480 --> 01:02:34,960
lowercase D Democrat impulses on
the right and the left. 

1220
01:02:35,080 --> 01:02:37,320
And so that's that's what 
motivated me to jump in. 

1221
01:02:37,320 --> 01:02:40,280
And frankly, if you look at the 
rest of the field in California 

1222
01:02:40,280 --> 01:02:42,480
right now, the two leading 
Republicans are going as hard 

1223
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,960
right as they can, catering to 
Trump and trying to be the 

1224
01:02:44,960 --> 01:02:46,640
standard bearer of the modern 
movement. 

1225
01:02:46,640 --> 01:02:48,800
I don't know. 
Steve Hilton and Chad Bianco are

1226
01:02:48,800 --> 01:02:50,800
like, you know. 
Hilton's like ATV sort. 

1227
01:02:50,960 --> 01:02:54,720
Of he was a Fox News, Yeah. 
Not the main one even like yeah,

1228
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:55,640
but. 
Yeah, sorry. 

1229
01:02:55,960 --> 01:02:59,800
And then and then the other 
leading Dems, at least up to 

1230
01:02:59,800 --> 01:03:03,380
this point, have been basically 
just trying to be the most anti 

1231
01:03:03,380 --> 01:03:05,880
Trump possible, which I 
understand. 

1232
01:03:05,880 --> 01:03:09,480
I mean, I agree with them 
philosophically and say many of 

1233
01:03:09,480 --> 01:03:12,280
the same things. 
But if that's your whole message

1234
01:03:12,280 --> 01:03:15,160
and you just know what you're 
against or you I think 

1235
01:03:15,160 --> 01:03:19,880
incorrectly try to pretend that 
Trump is the reason that 

1236
01:03:19,880 --> 01:03:23,080
California is struggling, which 
is just not. 

1237
01:03:23,080 --> 01:03:25,400
It's not. 
It's not Trump and it's, you 

1238
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:28,360
know, frankly, it's not even, I 
don't even think you can blame 

1239
01:03:28,360 --> 01:03:31,040
tech for our problems. 
I'm not saying that tech has 

1240
01:03:31,040 --> 01:03:32,680
been perfect or shouldn't do 
more. 

1241
01:03:32,680 --> 01:03:34,960
Believe me, tech should. 
And it should be regulated. 

1242
01:03:34,960 --> 01:03:37,280
And all those things are true. 
And Trump is awful and that's 

1243
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:39,520
true. 
But none of that's like the 

1244
01:03:39,520 --> 01:03:42,320
reason that our public schools 
are underperforming for low 

1245
01:03:42,320 --> 01:03:47,520
income students or we've 
increased spending by 75% and 

1246
01:03:47,680 --> 01:03:51,680
homelessness hasn't gone down or
that crime is what it like. 

1247
01:03:51,680 --> 01:03:55,680
These are just not connected. 
And it's so much easier to just 

1248
01:03:55,680 --> 01:03:58,480
say, oh, it's Trump or it's the 
billionaires or for the guys on 

1249
01:03:58,480 --> 01:04:00,920
the right to say it's these 
failed Democrats. 

1250
01:04:00,920 --> 01:04:03,000
We need to start getting more 
specific about what are the 

1251
01:04:03,000 --> 01:04:06,120
actual policies that are in the 
way or that need to be changed 

1252
01:04:06,120 --> 01:04:09,240
to make our lives better. 
Mayor Mahan, thank you so much 

1253
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:11,360
for coming on the show. 
Thanks for having fun, it's good

1254
01:04:11,360 --> 01:04:14,040
to see you. 
That's the newcomer podcast. 

1255
01:04:14,040 --> 01:04:16,960
Thanks so much to Matt Mahan for
coming out to New York and 

1256
01:04:16,960 --> 01:04:18,720
recording with me. 
I think he might have been in 

1257
01:04:18,720 --> 01:04:21,200
town for The Daily Show, but 
happy to have him on the 

1258
01:04:21,200 --> 01:04:23,280
newcomer podcast. 
While he was here. 

1259
01:04:23,280 --> 01:04:26,080
I had a lot of fun, like 
comment, subscribe. 

1260
01:04:26,160 --> 01:04:28,120
As you know, this is a growing 
YouTube channel. 

1261
01:04:28,120 --> 01:04:30,640
I also have another podcast 
called this Ruble Valley Show 

1262
01:04:30,640 --> 01:04:32,240
with Max Child and James 
Wilsterman. 

1263
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:34,360
I think it's pretty funny. 
It's a very different vibe. 

1264
01:04:34,360 --> 01:04:37,000
It's, you know, a host show for 
doing power rankings. 

1265
01:04:37,000 --> 01:04:41,960
You know we want to be the 
ringer if TBPN is Sports Center 

1266
01:04:41,960 --> 01:04:43,880
for tech, we want to be the 
ringer for tech. 

1267
01:04:43,880 --> 01:04:47,040
So you know this this is hard 
hitting interviews. 

1268
01:04:47,040 --> 01:04:49,960
That's fun chat show together. 
You can have you know your 

1269
01:04:49,960 --> 01:04:54,280
vegetables and your your cake 
yeah Anyway, you can find me on 

1270
01:04:54,280 --> 01:04:56,960
slep stack at newcomer.co and 
we'll see you with some great 

1271
01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:58,840
episodes coming up. 
I'm excited at the pipeline and 

1272
01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:01,640
guests we have coming and please
comment suggest people we should

1273
01:05:01,640 --> 01:05:03,440
have on the show. 
I'm just getting sassed. 

1274
01:05:03,440 --> 01:05:04,880
People are sassing me more in 
the beginning. 

1275
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,960
I haven't improved that much. 
So give me your feedback and 

1276
01:05:08,040 --> 01:05:09,200
thanks. 
Thanks for following this 

1277
01:05:09,200 --> 01:05:09,760
growing channel.