1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:15,800 Welcome back on Sally. So Tom I was reading technium. 2 00:00:16,300 --> 00:00:18,000 I was reading, do, people read Tech me. 3 00:00:18,200 --> 00:00:21,000 I was looking at the technique you scan through Page meme. 4 00:00:21,200 --> 00:00:23,700 Yeah, do you read technium? But I like reading the internet. 5 00:00:23,900 --> 00:00:26,300 Yeah, so I was scanning, take me. 6 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:30,200 And I thought that it was like, I was looking at the three Top 7 00:00:30,200 --> 00:00:32,800 articles on Tech name to be introduced the episode. 8 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:34,100 Did you do like, hey, it's Katie. 9 00:00:34,100 --> 00:00:35,200 Do we do that? No. 10 00:00:35,200 --> 00:00:37,300 Why do we have to do that? I mean, if people listen 11 00:00:37,300 --> 00:00:40,200 regularly, they know, we are mean, I don't know, let's do it, 12 00:00:40,200 --> 00:00:42,400 just do it, just do it. I'm Katie. 13 00:00:42,400 --> 00:00:45,400 I'm Tom, this is dead cat. Welcome. 14 00:00:45,400 --> 00:00:47,200 This is an Eric newcomer list episode. 15 00:00:47,200 --> 00:00:50,800 He's on vacation, it's Kitty and I holding down the fort. 16 00:00:51,500 --> 00:00:53,400 Barely. Yeah barely. 17 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:57,000 It's the two Elder Statesman of the podcast and yet I feel like 18 00:00:57,000 --> 00:01:00,600 we get admonished by Eric four times that we almost Our it's 19 00:01:00,600 --> 00:01:05,000 just us I mean newcomer yeah so Tom is Holding On by a thread. 20 00:01:05,000 --> 00:01:07,400 He needs a vacation, I'm definitely on vacation but I'm 21 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:08,900 working every day so here we are. 22 00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:12,600 Yeah. And I was scanning the top of 23 00:01:12,600 --> 00:01:15,400 tech meme like you do. I don't think you read it, you 24 00:01:15,400 --> 00:01:17,300 just scan it. And again, notice that top three 25 00:01:17,300 --> 00:01:20,200 articles one, the first number one article is about 26 00:01:20,200 --> 00:01:23,200 self-driving cars. The number two is about Poober 27 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:27,300 and the number three is about a Down Round. 28 00:01:27,700 --> 00:01:31,900 So I like this because It's so similar to when I was covering 29 00:01:31,900 --> 00:01:34,000 Tech, I felt right Aronson. Exactly. 30 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:39,700 It's very 2017 and so I like the familiarity but clearly it seems 31 00:01:39,700 --> 00:01:43,000 to me just from scanning technique the arguably, the most 32 00:01:43,000 --> 00:01:49,900 important website, in fact that the text seems somewhat to be in 33 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:51,700 a rut. So Tom as somebody who's 34 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,800 covering this day to day, why is this happening? 35 00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:57,400 It's very strange, it's very strange. 36 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,700 I think, first of all, we have to say, any sort of News cycle 37 00:02:00,700 --> 00:02:02,700 has to be caveat it with the fact that it is. 38 00:02:02,700 --> 00:02:06,100 So, it's July, it's July, no one really wants to work. 39 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,199 I know this on a daily basis and yet we do. 40 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:14,300 And so the sort of flow of news gets extremely weird, I think, 41 00:02:14,300 --> 00:02:18,100 the analogy, I mean, this is across all, you know, all Beats. 42 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:21,000 I'll sections of the paper. But the analogy to me is always 43 00:02:21,000 --> 00:02:23,000 like, remember Network TV during the summer. 44 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:26,500 Used to be just like, just weird shit. 45 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:28,900 Like, you have to seat the shows we get to their season finale, 46 00:02:28,900 --> 00:02:32,100 in May, and then Like the next week it'd be like here's a weird 47 00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:35,000 ass game show that ever get put on the air except during the 48 00:02:35,008 --> 00:02:38,900 summer like here's a bear eating a thousand, hot dogs like 49 00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:42,300 Trapper John MD oh yeah. Show that I think was made only 50 00:02:42,300 --> 00:02:45,400 to be Runnin Syndicate but by and large weird shit happens 51 00:02:45,400 --> 00:02:49,500 during the summer and so the news cycle gets strange and 52 00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:51,700 slow. So I do want to say up front 53 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:55,700 that is definitely something to consider, but I think there's 54 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:59,400 something larger at play here. I think we are dealing with part 55 00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:02,400 of the Cycle. Writ large, like the multi-year 56 00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:07,500 cycle that has reached some sort of a trough, a stasis, a moment 57 00:03:07,500 --> 00:03:11,600 of disillusionment and I don't know, just stuck stuck in this. 58 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,000 We just feel like we're like the cursor is just sort of spinning 59 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,800 and we don't really know if like the program is operating in the 60 00:03:17,800 --> 00:03:19,500 background. We keep staring at the cursor 61 00:03:19,500 --> 00:03:21,300 being like is something going to load. 62 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,200 Is anything is anything going to happen here? 63 00:03:24,500 --> 00:03:27,700 And I think the story is that you mention and just generally 64 00:03:27,700 --> 00:03:29,800 my experience on the be talking to people. 65 00:03:29,900 --> 00:03:32,900 All right. Now we are in a very, very 66 00:03:32,900 --> 00:03:37,100 interesting and in my opinion of the like what has it been like 67 00:03:37,100 --> 00:03:40,600 eight fucking years that I've been on this beat a a kind of 68 00:03:40,600 --> 00:03:44,400 unrecognizable part of the cycle and I see what's happening in 69 00:03:44,400 --> 00:03:47,900 the news, it feels like, first of all, there's no Tech, it's no 70 00:03:47,900 --> 00:03:50,900 longer fun and they're definitely no new ideas. 71 00:03:50,900 --> 00:03:52,000 I mean, just look at these stories. 72 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:55,600 Self-driving cars, right? Boober down rounds, right? 73 00:03:55,600 --> 00:03:59,600 This a is so it's not only our that is the news, the same, the 74 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:03,600 news, Is usually the news of the same, because the activities are 75 00:04:03,600 --> 00:04:07,600 the same, right? And so, what's going on with 76 00:04:07,600 --> 00:04:10,100 ideas in Tech and then what's going on with money? 77 00:04:10,100 --> 00:04:13,300 So like no one's really having any fun and ones, creating any 78 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:15,400 new ideas. And yeah, certainly, there's 79 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:17,500 something going on with the money, the money and maybe, 80 00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:20,399 maybe maybe is a good idea to take each one of these stories 81 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:22,800 from by one. I remember, I started covering 82 00:04:22,800 --> 00:04:27,700 tack at the information with a mirror of Rowdy, mr. 83 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:30,600 Self-driving car, mr. Zalto, Himself. 84 00:04:30,600 --> 00:04:34,800 Yeah, my favorite person that we did work uncomfortably close. 85 00:04:34,800 --> 00:04:38,500 He insisted on the standing desk I had a seated desk and I'll 86 00:04:38,500 --> 00:04:42,100 just say positionally. It wasn't, it wasn't, it wasn't 87 00:04:42,100 --> 00:04:45,100 ideal for not recommended Ocho probably would have a good case 88 00:04:45,100 --> 00:04:49,600 against the entire office layout of early days of other really, 89 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,400 is really tight. I'll put it that way but um, but 90 00:04:52,400 --> 00:04:54,700 I remember when we were talking about this story is the 91 00:04:54,700 --> 00:04:58,100 self-driving car. Listen 20, 2014 2015, its 92 00:04:58,100 --> 00:05:02,400 self-driving car was going to be upon us. 20:22 wish I think 93 00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:03,900 know. For sure if not Belgium 94 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,700 self-driving car was here flying car was going to be further 95 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:12,500 away, the self-driving car was Within Reach and so this is not 96 00:05:12,500 --> 00:05:14,700 only an article about the self-driving car but about how 97 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:17,700 self-driving car is definitely not happening at least for 98 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:18,600 Apple. Right? 99 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:20,200 And it isn't, it's not happening for Apple. 100 00:05:20,200 --> 00:05:22,300 I mean apples willing to spend more time and more money. 101 00:05:22,300 --> 00:05:25,700 They will accuse better Parts. They're willing to use like more 102 00:05:25,700 --> 00:05:28,800 effective but / more. More expensive technology. 103 00:05:29,200 --> 00:05:30,500 It was not happy. Grapple. 104 00:05:31,100 --> 00:05:33,700 I would dare posit. It's probably not happening for 105 00:05:33,700 --> 00:05:36,200 others. So is this, you know what, what 106 00:05:36,200 --> 00:05:38,800 is happening with this story? Definitely, the matically fits 107 00:05:38,800 --> 00:05:40,600 with that. So the technium headline, we're 108 00:05:40,600 --> 00:05:44,800 really giving our time are time to Tech Meme here, which Eggman 109 00:05:44,800 --> 00:05:47,700 is sponsoring this episode. Yeah, thanks Gabe. 110 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:50,600 So yeah, the technium headline, is report. 111 00:05:50,600 --> 00:05:53,200 Details apples eight-year. Struggle to build a self-driving 112 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:55,900 car as 20 people who worked on the project site, constant 113 00:05:55,900 --> 00:05:59,600 shifting goals and more and then this is a summation. 114 00:05:59,600 --> 00:06:03,200 A Relation of a story that was in the information by my former 115 00:06:03,200 --> 00:06:06,900 colleague, Wayne ma who is really getting deep into all the 116 00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:09,000 kind of failed initiatives inside Apple. 117 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:14,400 These days here earlier had a story about their a, our efforts 118 00:06:14,400 --> 00:06:18,100 and why those have also just been completely uninspiring and 119 00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:21,900 shitty. So yeah, the story basically is 120 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:25,400 explaining over the years, why they are one of the many 121 00:06:25,400 --> 00:06:27,500 companies that have spent billions and billions of dollars 122 00:06:27,500 --> 00:06:29,800 on this thing, but just won't do anything. 123 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:33,100 Being close to what it needs to do, in order for it to be ready 124 00:06:33,100 --> 00:06:37,000 for you, or me to take it. And I think this is like a 125 00:06:37,008 --> 00:06:40,300 perfect explanation encapsulation of where Tech is 126 00:06:40,300 --> 00:06:44,700 with its most ambitious and interesting products right now, 127 00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:46,300 right? Look, there's no question of 128 00:06:46,308 --> 00:06:49,300 self-driving car would actually be transformative, right? 129 00:06:49,300 --> 00:06:51,200 I mean, that's actually, first of all, four companies like 130 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:54,500 uber, it would give them like a real business model because they 131 00:06:54,500 --> 00:07:00,200 would, they would like, crap, you know, transformative Okay. 132 00:07:00,200 --> 00:07:02,400 Can you do well I'll think about transformative. 133 00:07:02,400 --> 00:07:05,000 Maybe like patchily, transformative, transformative 134 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:07,600 for some open you. I'm willing to debate that point 135 00:07:07,600 --> 00:07:08,900 but at least we got a pretty cool. 136 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:12,300 The idea of like a robot car that would drive around and not 137 00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:15,800 kill people, which seems call you problem for at least a. 138 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:18,900 And then the Apple car is detailed in the story to have 139 00:07:18,900 --> 00:07:22,700 almost hit a jogger but before a human stopped it from doing 140 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:25,000 that, you know, it's just, it's just not there. 141 00:07:25,300 --> 00:07:29,100 I just see them at this stage now where they need something 142 00:07:29,100 --> 00:07:32,400 new in Her to consider themselves an Innovative 143 00:07:32,400 --> 00:07:33,900 technology company they can probably. 144 00:07:33,900 --> 00:07:37,500 I mean you covered Apple Katie's you maybe have some I don't know 145 00:07:37,500 --> 00:07:40,900 Distant Memories of this but they could probably like lean on 146 00:07:40,900 --> 00:07:44,500 the profits of making everyone buy a new iPhone every 18 months 147 00:07:44,500 --> 00:07:45,800 for a while. Yeah, I mean, they're kind of 148 00:07:45,800 --> 00:07:48,400 becoming a software company. You have to pay them every month 149 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,800 for your data space, you have to pay them every month for your 150 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,200 iTunes, or for your Apple music, or for your Apple TV. 151 00:07:55,400 --> 00:07:57,700 They're running a subscription software company and I think 152 00:07:57,700 --> 00:07:59,300 that's where they're going to get a lot of their growth. 153 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:03,700 But to your point they would like to have a new product. 154 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:07,200 This is not necessarily an iPhone and I wonder at what 155 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:10,600 point they kill the car, you know, that they're just like, 156 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:12,600 what's on this idea? This is a dry. 157 00:08:12,600 --> 00:08:15,800 Well, we are, we are, we are pumping a dry well and it would 158 00:08:15,800 --> 00:08:18,700 be. Yeah, I know I just like they 159 00:08:18,700 --> 00:08:20,600 probably will at some point, right? 160 00:08:20,700 --> 00:08:24,200 There's no way that this thing is going to be Street ready for 161 00:08:24,700 --> 00:08:27,900 regular people in the next decade or so I just don't and 162 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:29,700 there is always this argument that it will. 163 00:08:29,800 --> 00:08:32,200 Inevitably happen, it must happen. 164 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:34,700 And first of all, I don't know that it must happen. 165 00:08:34,700 --> 00:08:37,900 Like I think that people human beings can drive cars and they 166 00:08:37,900 --> 00:08:42,299 do it pretty well. And the other issue is that when 167 00:08:42,299 --> 00:08:45,900 robots drive the cars humans or much warier about the statistics 168 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:48,000 around accidents. So right now obviously there's 169 00:08:48,000 --> 00:08:50,300 human error and their car accidents Galore because of 170 00:08:50,308 --> 00:08:53,700 human error and we've kind of accepted that but I think that 171 00:08:53,700 --> 00:08:57,600 we that there's something about the robots taking over. 172 00:08:57,800 --> 00:09:00,300 We don't want there to be accidents where much Forgiving 173 00:09:00,300 --> 00:09:03,700 about that, margin of it. Oh yeah, yeah, because the 174 00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:07,900 number of people that get hit by humans is unlike unacceptable, 175 00:09:07,900 --> 00:09:10,300 really good through the roof right now, like in Washington 176 00:09:10,300 --> 00:09:12,900 DC, it's pretty pretty, pretty terrible. 177 00:09:14,000 --> 00:09:16,400 Statistically, it's gone up. Thank you pandemic. 178 00:09:16,700 --> 00:09:19,700 But at the same time, you know, is it really? 179 00:09:19,700 --> 00:09:22,600 An inevitability? Do we need to have self-driving 180 00:09:22,600 --> 00:09:24,100 cars? Is that something that must 181 00:09:24,100 --> 00:09:26,300 happen? Even if I buy the argument that 182 00:09:26,300 --> 00:09:31,000 it will, by the time happens? What else will be going on in 183 00:09:31,000 --> 00:09:33,100 the world? What other new technology will 184 00:09:33,100 --> 00:09:35,500 have happened? That makes it just feel a little 185 00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:39,400 bit less exciting if and that's a very optimistic case too. 186 00:09:39,400 --> 00:09:42,600 Because it says that there could be really new big, fresh ideas 187 00:09:42,600 --> 00:09:45,000 and Tech. And I don't really see those 188 00:09:45,600 --> 00:09:50,400 happening so much and again, like business model wise for a 189 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,300 company like uber, which spends, you know, 80% of every fair or 190 00:09:54,300 --> 00:10:00,200 so on paying, you know, drivers fucking human beings that Carry 191 00:10:00,200 --> 00:10:04,500 out the tasks and work, the, you know, the robo taxi idea is very 192 00:10:04,500 --> 00:10:06,300 interesting to them. Like, for them, it is kind of 193 00:10:06,300 --> 00:10:09,200 existential debatably existential for Apple. 194 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:11,700 It's not right? It's just a thing. 195 00:10:11,700 --> 00:10:14,000 It's just like well we need to be at the Forefront of what we 196 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:16,100 think. Go, new technology is so I guess 197 00:10:16,100 --> 00:10:18,100 we have this money that we should spend on cars. 198 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:20,900 What is the new technology? That's the, that's the other 199 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:22,300 question. Like what are we? 200 00:10:22,300 --> 00:10:26,100 What are we lacking right now? The technology is going to help 201 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:27,700 us with. I'm not saying that doesn't 202 00:10:27,700 --> 00:10:29,300 exist. I can think of numerous things 203 00:10:29,300 --> 00:10:31,200 in medicine. Sun' alone. 204 00:10:31,600 --> 00:10:35,600 But it seems like BC money over the last few years was really 205 00:10:35,600 --> 00:10:38,100 pouring into. How does somebody put this to me 206 00:10:38,100 --> 00:10:41,300 the other day? Maybe it was you Tom things that 207 00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:43,900 make life marginally better for people with a lot of money. 208 00:10:43,900 --> 00:10:49,700 Oh, I think that was me. Yeah, yeah, Bruno Kirby. 209 00:10:49,700 --> 00:10:52,300 And When Harry Met Sally, I was waiting to hear if it's out of 210 00:10:52,308 --> 00:10:53,900 those parts where I took credit for it. 211 00:10:54,600 --> 00:10:56,400 I wrote that line, it pleases me. 212 00:10:56,600 --> 00:10:59,000 Yeah. But I think AR is a better 213 00:10:59,000 --> 00:11:02,000 example. Of something that Apple really, 214 00:11:02,000 --> 00:11:04,500 really wants to have happen because that, you know, that 215 00:11:04,500 --> 00:11:06,700 does sound like a new platform G. 216 00:11:06,700 --> 00:11:08,800 That is like, a new way to experience the world, which is 217 00:11:08,800 --> 00:11:11,900 what Apple's always trying to claim their Tech can do, right? 218 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,700 And I think it sucks. I think everything that these 219 00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:19,200 companies have been investing in for the time being right now. 220 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:21,400 It's really shitty. It's nowhere. 221 00:11:21,400 --> 00:11:24,100 Close to the promise and actually this this information 222 00:11:24,100 --> 00:11:26,400 story. I thought had a great line in 223 00:11:26,400 --> 00:11:28,000 it. I hadn't heard before but they 224 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:29,500 were because they what they've managed to do. 225 00:11:29,500 --> 00:11:31,700 What? Apple has managed to do is train 226 00:11:32,000 --> 00:11:35,900 some of their self driving cars to perform really well in closed 227 00:11:35,900 --> 00:11:38,900 circuits that can go on fixed routes. 228 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:42,300 So it's not right dealing with, like, real-time human activity. 229 00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:44,800 But you can kind of get it on a course to do stuff, which is 230 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,200 what you need in a self-driving car. 231 00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,300 Yell time human activity. Yeah. 232 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:50,400 And and the term he used was demo where? 233 00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:51,600 Yes, yes. I said. 234 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:52,700 I love that. Yeah. 235 00:11:52,700 --> 00:11:54,100 And that's, that's what it is, right? 236 00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:56,800 I mean, and that's what they are is and I, you know, I've bitched 237 00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:59,600 about this constantly on the show that like, these companies. 238 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:03,100 Really good at getting groups of reporters to go down to their 239 00:12:03,100 --> 00:12:06,500 offices and give them demos of these products. 240 00:12:06,500 --> 00:12:09,500 That at the time, they right, where the glowing reviews about 241 00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:11,800 and then nothing ever comes of it because it can't do anything 242 00:12:11,800 --> 00:12:15,700 outside of the presentation that they gave to credulous reporters 243 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:17,700 in the moment that they gave it to them. 244 00:12:17,700 --> 00:12:20,600 I think also, the problem is, is that, you know, you could argue 245 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,000 that a lot of the technology especially around on demand and 246 00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:27,200 other, you know, especially right on demand, like, uber are 247 00:12:27,200 --> 00:12:30,700 things that made life better. It made you feel like you 248 00:12:30,700 --> 00:12:32,800 enjoyed existing in the world more. 249 00:12:32,800 --> 00:12:35,200 You could even say that if some social media you went out to go 250 00:12:35,200 --> 00:12:37,600 on Hikes and to go to weddings you could share these pictures, 251 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:40,000 etc, etc. But it's I think it's hard to 252 00:12:40,000 --> 00:12:42,600 make the argument that for most people, particularly those with 253 00:12:42,600 --> 00:12:45,200 a disposable income that technology companies want to 254 00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:50,500 Target that living in a are is better than living in real life, 255 00:12:50,500 --> 00:12:52,400 right? And so, even if it was the most 256 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,700 amazing, a our upper, if all it did was make you feel like you 257 00:12:55,700 --> 00:12:57,800 were doing the thing you could do, if you walk out your door 258 00:12:58,000 --> 00:12:59,600 and people are like, oh but you could go to the loo. 259 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,100 When you could never do that in real life, I'm sorry about the 260 00:13:02,100 --> 00:13:04,200 audience of people that companies actually want to 261 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,400 Target, who have disposable income. 262 00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:08,700 They probably could get to an art museum, right? 263 00:13:08,700 --> 00:13:11,500 So if they really wanted to, and I probably would enjoy it a 264 00:13:11,508 --> 00:13:13,100 little bit more in person because then you can go to the 265 00:13:13,100 --> 00:13:15,400 cafeteria after and get an ice cream and talk about thing. 266 00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:19,600 You just saw and I and I think that that is one of the big 267 00:13:19,600 --> 00:13:22,300 problems that they are. It's just not going to make it 268 00:13:22,300 --> 00:13:24,000 even if it is. So so good. 269 00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,900 It won't be better than real life. 270 00:13:26,000 --> 00:13:30,900 And so it feels like yes, a new platform but Bit of a waste of 271 00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:32,700 time, right? Right. 272 00:13:32,700 --> 00:13:35,200 I thought you actually was, yeah, let me quote, you back to 273 00:13:35,200 --> 00:13:40,400 UK it earlier episode owning a sick show ya, what are you gonna 274 00:13:40,400 --> 00:13:41,900 do? Who would have thought that 275 00:13:41,900 --> 00:13:43,300 Eric's? Not here, it gets even more 276 00:13:43,300 --> 00:13:47,500 self-congratulatory. So I think you were talking 277 00:13:47,500 --> 00:13:50,400 about how, like, you know, the people that are spending 278 00:13:50,500 --> 00:13:53,100 millions and billions of dollars creating the metaverse, which, 279 00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:55,700 by the way, that's not a thing. We've talked about, in a couple 280 00:13:55,700 --> 00:13:57,600 months, I don't have another metaverse now. 281 00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:00,400 It's really pitch in the butter verse, not a Of a tech meme. 282 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:04,100 I think, you know, these are rich people that are spending 283 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:06,800 their money going on ski trips in. 284 00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:09,000 You know, what I can tell is skiing. 285 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,700 Yeah, look out there in Vail, they're in the Alps, or what's 286 00:14:12,700 --> 00:14:15,600 left of the snow in the Alps. I mean, they're not spending 287 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:18,700 time in the metaverse pretending that it's fun to like virtually 288 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:21,100 enjoy a concert. They're getting like backstage 289 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:22,700 passes to the concert. Yeah. 290 00:14:22,800 --> 00:14:25,600 And so there is definitely a mismatch between what, you know, 291 00:14:25,600 --> 00:14:27,400 the people at the top of the business World. 292 00:14:27,400 --> 00:14:29,600 Think the rest of us losers will enjoy. 293 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:32,900 Oi and what they're doing and what they claim is going to be 294 00:14:32,900 --> 00:14:34,700 the future. When, in fact, it's not a future 295 00:14:34,700 --> 00:14:37,200 that they seem all that particularly interested in 296 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:41,000 participating and whatsoever. So then the other one on the 297 00:14:41,008 --> 00:14:43,900 list you want to move on down to, I think we have to address 298 00:14:43,900 --> 00:14:46,500 this like uber story thing. Yeah, over files. 299 00:14:46,700 --> 00:14:48,900 I don't think. I really don't want to belabor 300 00:14:48,900 --> 00:14:52,300 it for a variety of reasons, including the fact that I don't 301 00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:54,800 have time to read the entirety of it. 302 00:14:54,800 --> 00:14:58,900 You have it all under 25,000 doctor but I did, I did notice 303 00:14:58,900 --> 00:15:02,000 that a lot of the Things that I'm seeing these stories. 304 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:06,600 I feel like I've somewhat read right before, right? 305 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:11,000 And that the that no, no. I mean, you can argue that some 306 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,000 of these things have been reported before and they're not 307 00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:15,000 necessarily knew you could argue that doesn't matter because 308 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,700 having the documents to stand them up as important, putting 309 00:15:17,700 --> 00:15:20,000 that debate aside. What you're looking at is a 310 00:15:20,008 --> 00:15:24,500 company that was growing really fast and was really interesting 311 00:15:25,200 --> 00:15:27,500 several years ago and you're looking at the things that 312 00:15:27,500 --> 00:15:29,900 happened when it was growing really fast was really Ting. 313 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:33,000 Several years ago, which says, to me that like, uber is not 314 00:15:33,000 --> 00:15:37,600 really as interesting today and that sort of that cohort of 315 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:42,900 companies, it makes me wonder, are they have they all kind of 316 00:15:42,900 --> 00:15:44,900 topped out and nothing is really replacing. 317 00:15:44,900 --> 00:15:48,300 If what we're doing is reading about, you know, the sort of 318 00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:52,600 mascot of the era of Mac. But just, you know, what was 319 00:15:52,600 --> 00:15:55,000 happening? Five years ago, right? 320 00:15:55,100 --> 00:15:57,500 Right. It's like it as the new cycle is 321 00:15:57,500 --> 00:15:59,600 slow and both because of the season. 322 00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,000 Just like where we are and like the broader Tech cycle. 323 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:05,500 It's like they're the universe is trying to like pull out 324 00:16:05,500 --> 00:16:08,700 Greatest Hits from the time where Tech was more interesting. 325 00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:11,800 So it's like, all right self-driving is this anything 326 00:16:11,800 --> 00:16:12,300 for you? Ok. 327 00:16:12,300 --> 00:16:14,700 No. OK, how about Uber Scandal? 328 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,500 There's a candle is so hot in 2017. 329 00:16:18,500 --> 00:16:20,100 It's like, oh, is there a new Uber Scandal? 330 00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:21,600 No. Yeah. 331 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:25,000 It's the old Libra scandals. You're like, oh yeah, you be the 332 00:16:25,000 --> 00:16:28,300 stories that every news Outlet was writing about endlessly in 333 00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:32,000 2017 there like Like yeah, it's those like even the same cast of 334 00:16:32,000 --> 00:16:34,100 characters. Yeah it's like what you know 335 00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:36,800 what is Travis doing these days? Well he's gotta you know it's 336 00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,500 really not a PR person and defending himself it's like, 337 00:16:39,800 --> 00:16:42,300 okay. Because remember that terrifying 338 00:16:42,300 --> 00:16:44,100 with the law. So let's go back to when he 339 00:16:44,100 --> 00:16:46,500 wasn't, that was pretty cool. Yeah. 340 00:16:46,900 --> 00:16:49,400 I will say, I don't want to spend too much time on Uber 341 00:16:49,400 --> 00:16:52,100 specifically because we are going to have an episode about 342 00:16:52,100 --> 00:16:53,800 it. And several weeks and newcomer, 343 00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:56,000 whatever we do Eric is going to be really upset. 344 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,300 Yeah, yeah, he did allow us to talk about it, but I think we're 345 00:16:59,300 --> 00:17:02,000 going to Only a limited fashion. Yeah. 346 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:06,099 So without going into too many of the specifics of it, I will 347 00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,400 say again, I think it's funny that these stories do not seem 348 00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:12,000 like they have caught the World by storm. 349 00:17:12,000 --> 00:17:15,099 I mean, I don't know, I mean like, they've been in all these 350 00:17:15,099 --> 00:17:17,400 newsletters there at the top of tech beam. 351 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,500 Like, I don't know what catching the World by storm. 352 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,300 It's hard, it's hard. If you do such extreme things. 353 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:25,700 Now bring a sack a major government building. 354 00:17:25,700 --> 00:17:27,200 Gonna do a lot of things. It's really cat. 355 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:29,000 Yeah, it's like capturing people's attentions for 356 00:17:29,000 --> 00:17:30,400 difficulties. Yeah, yeah yeah. 357 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,100 And you know I'm like I see right now, as we record this 358 00:17:33,100 --> 00:17:35,500 like on the Washington Post, it's the front of this. 359 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,500 You know, it's the top of the top news story, they have that 360 00:17:37,500 --> 00:17:39,900 they really blew it out. There's any one of the news 361 00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:43,500 outlets that worked with the international Consortium of 362 00:17:43,500 --> 00:17:46,300 investigative journalists to analyze the documents. 363 00:17:46,300 --> 00:17:48,700 And, you know, they're trying to make a big thing out of it. 364 00:17:48,700 --> 00:17:52,200 And they've had a couple of interesting stories or does it. 365 00:17:52,200 --> 00:17:54,500 The leakers already? Come forward and stories, like, 366 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:57,000 not even a day old. Like, what don't don't? 367 00:17:57,000 --> 00:17:59,500 Don't whistleblowers want, Mystique. 368 00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:02,300 Or what happened. I thought that the cycle the way 369 00:18:02,300 --> 00:18:05,300 it works, like the rollout work, is that you do the big, couple 370 00:18:05,300 --> 00:18:08,000 of stories and you get everyone. So Juiced about your like, who 371 00:18:08,000 --> 00:18:09,800 is this person? It's just guy. 372 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:12,600 Who is this, you know? And then on the last day, it's 373 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:14,600 like the big reveal and it's like, oh, it's someone that we 374 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,900 don't know, but maybe maybe famous know. 375 00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,300 Yay. They really speeding up the 376 00:18:19,300 --> 00:18:21,200 cycle. It seems like things are going a 377 00:18:21,208 --> 00:18:23,700 little too fast, right? Just kind of a tech him in a 378 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:25,500 baby. That's a tech information. 379 00:18:25,500 --> 00:18:28,900 Yeah, what if we reveal the leaker on day one and then 380 00:18:28,900 --> 00:18:31,600 everyone move Saint addict. I don't know, I don't know what 381 00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:33,800 the strategy is there. It seems like it would stick to 382 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,500 me. We really don't want to draw 383 00:18:35,500 --> 00:18:37,800 this out anymore. We really want people to digest 384 00:18:37,800 --> 00:18:40,100 this as soon as possible. Take out all the mystery so they 385 00:18:40,100 --> 00:18:44,100 can move on with their lives by Tuesday, so it's Mark McGann. 386 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:47,800 Yeah, barking again, everyone. We are getting closer by the way 387 00:18:47,800 --> 00:18:49,700 to. I don't know if you've just 388 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:52,300 discuss this on this show, but like we've collected quite a few 389 00:18:52,300 --> 00:18:55,300 whistleblowers over the last few years that I would watch that 390 00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:58,600 reality show of like whistleblower house where we 391 00:18:58,608 --> 00:19:01,900 just kind of like the World, the original MTV's, Real World, we 392 00:19:01,900 --> 00:19:04,900 put them on an apartment together in New York City. 393 00:19:05,300 --> 00:19:08,600 We got a West Village townhouse and they start to get real. 394 00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,600 I don't think it could be in New York because of Snowden so we'd 395 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:16,800 have to do it in Russia. That's really cold Mountain cow 396 00:19:16,900 --> 00:19:19,600 real world Moscow. But yeah, you get you get 397 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:23,900 Snowden and you get Francis heylighen, you get Mark began. 398 00:19:24,600 --> 00:19:27,800 I think the other like, I don't think that's I mean maybe maybe 399 00:19:27,800 --> 00:19:30,900 Snowden and Manning or just from a Different era, maybe it's 400 00:19:30,900 --> 00:19:35,200 really just McGann. I'm not to be moved on again. 401 00:19:35,300 --> 00:19:41,300 Mark me, guess not your McGann. Francis how again and they can 402 00:19:41,300 --> 00:19:46,200 just be on an island together. Somewhere talking crypto, have a 403 00:19:46,208 --> 00:19:50,100 baby that we pair it with survivor of the ACT actually 404 00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:53,100 hunt their own on thrown him down their own meals. 405 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,000 Hmm. Create potable water. 406 00:19:55,100 --> 00:19:57,500 Yeah, or like I wonder if they end up just blowing whistle on 407 00:19:57,500 --> 00:19:59,300 each other the whole time and let people in. 408 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,200 I mean, the producers of like all my misdeeds at the others 409 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:06,100 are doing well, sometimes our reality TV is, right, there's no 410 00:20:06,100 --> 00:20:09,100 special to draw movie extreme. He's so good at it. 411 00:20:09,200 --> 00:20:11,600 Yeah. Hey, Buffy survivors for sure. 412 00:20:11,800 --> 00:20:14,000 I worry people are going to take the wrong message for this that 413 00:20:14,000 --> 00:20:17,300 we do not value whistleblowers as report we absolutely value. 414 00:20:17,400 --> 00:20:20,700 We do I I genuinely think that they are heroes. 415 00:20:20,800 --> 00:20:23,300 I do this is more of a conversation about like whistle 416 00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:26,000 blowing and fame I think and if you want to really be the most 417 00:20:26,000 --> 00:20:29,500 famous whistleblower, you have to combine it with the popcorn. 418 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:32,100 Culture phenomenon, that is created more Fame for more 419 00:20:32,100 --> 00:20:34,800 everyday people, which is reality television, right? 420 00:20:35,000 --> 00:20:37,600 I mean dick, one of these people could become president if 421 00:20:37,600 --> 00:20:39,400 they're on reality TV. What is this? 422 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:42,000 Is like, you're like, you're like a powerful medium, right? 423 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,600 Yeah, I think we've talked on the show about how 424 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,400 whistleblowers are and, I mean, again, I don't mean to be 425 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,100 cynical about it. Is another version of being an 426 00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,300 influencer, right? Especially when you're going 427 00:20:51,300 --> 00:20:54,500 forward, I made me very uncomfortable. 428 00:20:54,700 --> 00:20:59,300 Yeah, yeah. So yeah, I yeah, I get I feel 429 00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:02,700 kind of That is were making fun of these people from a celebrity 430 00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:05,100 perspective. I do think their access is 431 00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:07,200 incredibly heroic not making fun of them. 432 00:21:07,200 --> 00:21:10,500 We are making fun of the circle of life that has been created 433 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:12,100 around the active whistle blowing. 434 00:21:12,100 --> 00:21:14,400 Yeah, did not examine the life that exists Beyond just the 435 00:21:14,400 --> 00:21:16,200 story, right? That, this is really kind of 436 00:21:16,200 --> 00:21:20,700 like, isn't it really sort of somewhat of like a 20/20 18 437 00:21:20,700 --> 00:21:24,200 post, 2018 phenomenon? You know I mean it was like up 438 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,400 until up until that Ukraine will sell blower phenomenon. 439 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:31,400 I don't think people like Blowing, the whistle then jumped 440 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:34,500 in front of the camera, like, I think that's different, right? 441 00:21:34,600 --> 00:21:36,900 Well, I mean Snowden is the obvious one. 442 00:21:36,900 --> 00:21:39,600 Yeah, she's right. I mean, he and then that was the 443 00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:42,800 documentary. Yeah, that was a big reveal and 444 00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,500 he'd work closely with, you know, Greenwald and Laura 445 00:21:45,500 --> 00:21:47,000 poitras. My favorite part of the 446 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:49,200 documentary is when he's hiding under the blankets on this 447 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:50,600 computer. Uh-huh. 448 00:21:51,100 --> 00:21:54,600 As I say, that was an incredibly claustrophobic documentary, just 449 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,800 imagine all the time that they spent in that hotel room 450 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,200 together, knowing that if they ever went downstairs, it could 451 00:21:59,200 --> 00:22:03,100 be a A nightmare. I'm still like slightly anxious 452 00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:06,700 thinking about all of those cameras and Snowden just sitting 453 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,300 in that room together, like waiting for the story to go up, 454 00:22:09,300 --> 00:22:11,900 there's a great documentary, that was really in some ways 455 00:22:11,900 --> 00:22:15,100 like the high Watermark of so many things. 456 00:22:15,100 --> 00:22:18,900 But, without naming names of many, many people, well, no, I 457 00:22:18,900 --> 00:22:21,600 don't even think about that. The people involved just, like 458 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,900 sort of the high Watermark of like, people trusting 459 00:22:24,900 --> 00:22:29,600 journalist, right? People failing like You know be 460 00:22:29,600 --> 00:22:33,000 crew feels like that. Led to change like to change in 461 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,400 government you know feeling of accountability. 462 00:22:35,400 --> 00:22:39,700 You think also the revelations themselves eroded people's trust 463 00:22:39,700 --> 00:22:43,100 in government to a point that it just felt like any sort of 464 00:22:43,100 --> 00:22:46,000 repair of the system was beyond the scope of tickets. 465 00:22:46,000 --> 00:22:48,200 An interesting question thought of it. 466 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:51,700 That way, you know, because I feel we were just at this moment 467 00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:55,800 of Maximum like, give us your data, everyone wants to share 468 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:59,500 data, and I've always thought of it as Snowden like you know. 469 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:04,600 So his and the information you shared having sort of this dual 470 00:23:04,600 --> 00:23:06,400 consequent until set of consequences. 471 00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:08,800 One being okay. There's something wrong with 472 00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:10,400 government that needs to be addressed. 473 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:14,300 But the other being a woman, by the way, do you as a consumer 474 00:23:14,300 --> 00:23:17,100 just want to like throw your data out, willy-nilly liked it, 475 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:18,500 should there be some seat belt on that? 476 00:23:18,500 --> 00:23:21,100 And I think it sort of put the brakes on, tech companies that 477 00:23:21,100 --> 00:23:23,400 were really pushing this idea. That's very Mark, Zuckerberg 478 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:26,800 idea that human beings would soon like not really want 479 00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:30,200 privacy or care about At all ever ever again. 480 00:23:30,600 --> 00:23:32,700 And so I felt like I've always thought about it through that 481 00:23:32,700 --> 00:23:34,300 lens. I've never really thought about. 482 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:36,700 It was a sort of like the postmodern project destroying 483 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:39,200 faith and institution. I don't think it'll be enough 484 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:42,500 maybe, but maybe yeah. But maybe that was just sort of, 485 00:23:42,500 --> 00:23:46,100 like, one of the one of the knock-on effects, right? 486 00:23:46,100 --> 00:23:48,500 And I mean, like when you're pulling back the screen that 487 00:23:48,500 --> 00:23:52,900 much and you really see how rotting the system that your 488 00:23:53,500 --> 00:23:57,300 whistle blowing on has become, you kind of Wonder, I mean, I 489 00:23:57,300 --> 00:23:59,700 think they They come at it from a good place which is like this 490 00:23:59,700 --> 00:24:03,500 can be repaired and like, you know, Francis Hogan's her 491 00:24:03,500 --> 00:24:05,900 perspective. Supposedly was that she's like 492 00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:07,600 so long like Facebook can be fixed. 493 00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:11,000 If we get rid of Mark Zuckerberg and he's the problem here and 494 00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:14,700 right, you know, whatever that is what it is. 495 00:24:14,700 --> 00:24:18,100 But I you know, I think as these people are coming forward and 496 00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:21,500 leaking the documents they think like they're improving the place 497 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,400 that they worked at or the country they live in or 498 00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:25,300 something like that. And it just seems like the 499 00:24:25,300 --> 00:24:27,100 effect is mostly been people read the stories. 500 00:24:27,100 --> 00:24:29,300 They're right Leo. If I'd buy it and they're like, 501 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:31,400 man, it seems like everything fucking sucks. 502 00:24:31,900 --> 00:24:35,700 It sounds like everything's broken, isn't it bad enough? 503 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:38,900 That just the Zeitgeist, right? How much, how much can really be 504 00:24:38,900 --> 00:24:43,000 done about that, right? And that's so, like, so the Uber 505 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:45,800 thing maybe to finish that up, like that's kind of, especially 506 00:24:45,800 --> 00:24:49,800 when you're leaking documents about a period that is long past 507 00:24:49,900 --> 00:24:54,500 for a company who is at a kind of weak point as a business, you 508 00:24:54,500 --> 00:24:57,100 know, like they're not really at a position of strength and we 509 00:24:57,100 --> 00:25:00,100 knew a lot of the Galatians. It's really hard to know what to 510 00:25:00,100 --> 00:25:02,500 make of any of these things. It's like company that many 511 00:25:02,500 --> 00:25:04,200 people had already decided, was bad. 512 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:06,900 Is still bad. Or was bad. 513 00:25:06,900 --> 00:25:09,100 Was what that, right? Well, that's yeah. 514 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:13,800 Anyway, we should save the Deep. Yeah, we're heading to deep into 515 00:25:13,800 --> 00:25:15,900 newcomer territory. We gotta move on to down rounds, 516 00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:18,600 which also I mean that's a very newcomer adjacent tooth will 517 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,200 have to tread carefully but I don't mind I don't mind. 518 00:25:21,200 --> 00:25:23,600 So yeah, that's the other thing on there. 519 00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:27,200 His decision to make ticket variation beats you down with a 520 00:25:27,200 --> 00:25:30,400 wire hanger. I'm just gonna say I told you so 521 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:37,200 cause of death talking about genres, so fucking sad magic. 522 00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,800 Yeah. You're talking about karna, the 523 00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:45,100 fintech companies pay me in, but please, no Clara. 524 00:25:45,100 --> 00:25:48,800 De carne is just a placeholder for any company but can judge Ya 525 00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:50,500 Down rounds, are you know, it's definitely. 526 00:25:50,500 --> 00:25:53,900 No one's heard of karna. You know, people in. 527 00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:55,300 Where is it? Sweden. 528 00:25:55,300 --> 00:25:57,700 I think it was like one Sweden's. 529 00:25:57,800 --> 00:26:01,800 Or Europe's Most Valuable privately, I think just fin tech 530 00:26:01,800 --> 00:26:05,800 company, fin tech company. You know, they raise 100 531 00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,500 million. It's a Down Round, major major 532 00:26:09,500 --> 00:26:12,000 down round. They were at 46 billion June 20 533 00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:14,100 21 now down to six point seven billion. 534 00:26:14,100 --> 00:26:16,400 I mean, that should pretty sure. Yeah, that's crazy. 535 00:26:16,700 --> 00:26:18,400 That's a good one. That's a good one. 536 00:26:19,300 --> 00:26:24,400 As like, shocking down rounds, go, I'm going to put them up in 537 00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:27,400 in a top-ten single cell, but maybe lost some money on that. 538 00:26:28,100 --> 00:26:30,600 Dollar the employees. Don't worry. 539 00:26:30,700 --> 00:26:31,100 Yeah. Right. 540 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:34,300 No one important as far as the investors are concerned. 541 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:40,500 But yeah, I don't know. I mean Sequoia which is like the 542 00:26:40,500 --> 00:26:45,000 Doomsday prophecies are of the valley put out a presentation, a 543 00:26:45,008 --> 00:26:48,000 couple months ago. Basically saying, you know, get 544 00:26:48,000 --> 00:26:50,700 ready for the bad times. Again, they love doing that. 545 00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:54,600 They're famous for the rmp, good times, presentation of the times 546 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:57,500 got really good. So maybe it was our IP good 547 00:26:57,500 --> 00:26:58,700 time. Because we're going to go into 548 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:02,300 great times, right? Exactly yeah, I didn't dot dot 549 00:27:02,300 --> 00:27:05,500 dot. They don't read the whole way 550 00:27:05,500 --> 00:27:10,800 through the presentation. You guys all get sad slide 551 00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:12,400 right? We're about to completely fuck 552 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,900 up the San Francisco real estate market descriptive. 553 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:17,900 Rooms going to be pretty good. Yeah. 554 00:27:17,900 --> 00:27:19,900 And then you're going to buy a house in Portugal. 555 00:27:20,200 --> 00:27:22,500 Yeah, right. All right be good times the 556 00:27:22,500 --> 00:27:24,700 great times as we're going to have a Trader Joe's on Market 557 00:27:24,700 --> 00:27:27,000 Street. Say goodbye to the good times. 558 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:30,400 Yeah, they are. There are so ripped the think 559 00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:33,800 it's good times, but I mean like it's a reality from covering the 560 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,600 space, you know, every company has been given that very firm 561 00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:44,100 directive that they have to make money, which is sad and sad. 562 00:27:44,100 --> 00:27:45,900 Think about that. The initial directive is not to 563 00:27:45,900 --> 00:27:48,200 make money. It's to grow different thing, 564 00:27:48,400 --> 00:27:50,300 right? So there's always a surprise. 565 00:27:50,300 --> 00:27:55,400 I think to the company's when somebody from outside says, okay 566 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,700 we take it back. Yeah, just make money. 567 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,000 Yeah. And I think maybe that more than 568 00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:03,900 anything is what has caused people to, you know, if there is 569 00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:07,900 like a lassitude or like moroseness about the tech World 570 00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:10,600 these days, I do think like that, the business models have 571 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:14,000 to become rational is really fucking depressing because 572 00:28:15,100 --> 00:28:17,700 making money isn't fun. People have been doing that for 573 00:28:17,800 --> 00:28:20,500 hundreds of years and they never seem to have fun doing it. 574 00:28:20,700 --> 00:28:22,100 Yeah. So this is where I like the 575 00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:24,900 dearth of Joy, the dearth of ideas and the dearth of money. 576 00:28:24,900 --> 00:28:27,200 All kind of come together in one neat package. 577 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:30,400 Yeah, And we don't know, like, we talked about that with Rick 578 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:34,700 heitzman a couple months back, like, you know, for the VC 579 00:28:34,700 --> 00:28:39,200 perspective, they're having, you know, that they've got to tell 580 00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:41,500 their companies. Some of you are going to die and 581 00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:44,000 we're not going to save you. And that's not very fun. 582 00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:45,700 That doesn't sound like a moon shot. 583 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:48,400 No. But it's also like I think the 584 00:28:48,400 --> 00:28:51,900 reason why we're not getting the sort of big downturn that 585 00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:56,800 Sequoia had predicted and and was warning people about is also 586 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,700 the reality that none of these companies not none that still 587 00:29:00,700 --> 00:29:05,700 very few of these companies. Even from like the 2015, 2016 588 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:09,900 boom have gone public. And so as long as they're all 589 00:29:09,900 --> 00:29:13,900 privately, held the good times end when the private investors 590 00:29:14,300 --> 00:29:16,800 won't play ball anymore. And since every company goes out 591 00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,700 to the market, to raise money at different times. 592 00:29:18,700 --> 00:29:21,400 And they do it, privately and quietly, and hopefully secretly. 593 00:29:21,800 --> 00:29:24,900 You don't kind of see that money rush out like it did in the late 594 00:29:24,900 --> 00:29:27,700 90s, where public shareholders were like weird. 595 00:29:27,900 --> 00:29:30,500 Being you and we're putting all of our money into bonds or 596 00:29:30,500 --> 00:29:33,900 whatever. And so it creates this like huge 597 00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:37,700 public dramatic Rush of funding out of the industry. 598 00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:39,900 That looks really terrible. Instead, you just see it in 599 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:43,800 these dribs and drabs on a semi consistent basis, but it doesn't 600 00:29:43,800 --> 00:29:46,400 have the same kind of like, terrifying umph. 601 00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:48,700 So you can still if you want. I mean you can still delude 602 00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:52,200 yourself and say, like the good times are here and I'm going to 603 00:29:52,208 --> 00:29:54,300 gamble with them. You could say argue that. 604 00:29:54,300 --> 00:29:55,700 That's somewhat. What the crypto. 605 00:29:55,700 --> 00:29:57,500 Boom was the post. R.i.p. 606 00:29:57,500 --> 00:29:59,100 Good. Times presentation crypto. 607 00:29:59,100 --> 00:30:01,500 But you could argue that, maybe that's what it was. 608 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:05,000 But yes. So also, I think that things 609 00:30:05,000 --> 00:30:09,600 like these down rounds are kind of symbolic of the fact that 610 00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,100 these companies did not go public and probably that's a 611 00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,400 good thing. Yeah, really great. 612 00:30:15,400 --> 00:30:18,300 Right liability. Yeah and probably best not to be 613 00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:21,300 public in tank. The economy writ large. 614 00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:25,000 Yeah I mean when I said that big that big lake collapse that 615 00:30:25,000 --> 00:30:27,200 we're all looking for. I don't think we're actually 616 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:29,400 very good. Big collapse that were bracing 617 00:30:29,400 --> 00:30:32,900 for, I think would be more accurate, which, which may be to 618 00:30:32,900 --> 00:30:37,300 say, way to like the last thing that explains this era and the 619 00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:41,400 thing that I am so amazed and amused by that you have followed 620 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,100 almost not at all in the really tridents that really tried to 621 00:30:45,100 --> 00:30:48,800 avoid up his elom. It's my I'm supposed to be on 622 00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:52,100 vacation, I'm working every day. So this is how I am getting a 623 00:30:52,108 --> 00:30:56,400 vacation in Tha just by not reading about really cool shit. 624 00:30:56,700 --> 00:30:58,400 Yeah, avoiding Eli. On it. 625 00:30:58,400 --> 00:31:02,100 Just just that has like really it's the I live in a condo in 626 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:03,800 the world. Do you want me to explain to you 627 00:31:03,800 --> 00:31:07,900 what happened? Last please do please do so on 628 00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:10,000 Friday. The hammer finally fell. 629 00:31:10,400 --> 00:31:12,100 Well actually no. Let me let me back up a little 630 00:31:12,100 --> 00:31:13,800 bit on Thursday, the Washington Post. 631 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:17,200 Ran a story saying that Elon was no longer engaging with his 632 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:20,300 financial advisors or something involved at the deal. 633 00:31:20,300 --> 00:31:23,200 And the deal was in Jeopardy and he was bringing up the fact that 634 00:31:23,200 --> 00:31:25,500 he wasn't getting. This is the story wasn't getting 635 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:27,700 all the data that he felt he needed to prove. 636 00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,900 Twitter doesn't have a bot, which is such a great argument 637 00:31:30,900 --> 00:31:35,100 because it's like, it's like if I said to you Tom I want data on 638 00:31:35,100 --> 00:31:37,600 your secret second child and you're like, but I don't have a 639 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:40,600 secret second child and I was like Tom, we're not doing this 640 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:42,900 deal until I get data on your secret. 641 00:31:42,900 --> 00:31:47,100 Second child and your secret second wife like but I don't 642 00:31:47,100 --> 00:31:50,500 have a secret second wife. Well, this deals over. 643 00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:53,000 All right. That's the beauty of this, you 644 00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,600 know, I love it so much. It goes so many layer. 645 00:31:56,600 --> 00:31:57,600 I get you don't want to read about it. 646 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:01,000 It. But, but it goes so many layers, 647 00:32:01,000 --> 00:32:03,200 deep. Because if you can recall at the 648 00:32:03,200 --> 00:32:06,100 origins of the deal, one of elon's promises and becoming the 649 00:32:06,100 --> 00:32:08,600 owner of Twitter is that he was going to fix the bot problem. 650 00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,000 Absolutely. And so, he's basically just been 651 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:14,500 looking for an out when it was clear, that he overpaid for a 652 00:32:14,500 --> 00:32:17,400 company as the market collapsed and Tesla stock collapsed. 653 00:32:17,400 --> 00:32:22,200 And I'm assuming he was close to getting margin called on the 654 00:32:22,200 --> 00:32:25,400 loans that he was taking out against his Tesla shares. 655 00:32:25,800 --> 00:32:27,600 So it was looking like a worse and worse. 656 00:32:27,800 --> 00:32:29,800 Deal. Everyone was kind of I don't 657 00:32:29,800 --> 00:32:31,600 know wondering how he was going to, How You Gonna wriggle out of 658 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:36,000 this one and then on Friday. Yeah, there's pretty simple. 659 00:32:36,000 --> 00:32:38,100 I bet that's what I do. I'm the, I'm the rig a lot of 660 00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:40,700 things that guy. You used to think of me as the 661 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:43,700 Innovation guy but now I'm just the wriggle out of shit guy, 662 00:32:43,900 --> 00:32:47,200 which is also very cool. We're out of ideas, the out of 663 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,800 money, we will get to that, we will get to that. 664 00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,300 Okay, that is very true. I think that is a perfect 665 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:57,800 encapsulation of our, maybe our country at this point but so I 666 00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:01,800 day, he files a letter with her. His lawyers fires a letter with 667 00:33:01,800 --> 00:33:05,700 the SEC saying deal's off. I no longer want to be the 668 00:33:05,700 --> 00:33:14,800 Twitter owner because because of the Bots is the Bots that are 669 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:16,500 the problem. I really want to make a t-shirt 670 00:33:16,500 --> 00:33:19,000 that says, I no longer want to be the Twitter owner. 671 00:33:19,200 --> 00:33:21,200 Yeah. If you would do it, he would 672 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:23,100 wear it. Because it's just, I mean, 673 00:33:23,100 --> 00:33:24,500 that's all of us, kind of, right? 674 00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:25,600 Yeah. Well, I don't want to be the 675 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,500 Twitter user, but I'm required to be. 676 00:33:29,300 --> 00:33:31,400 Did you read the story about the reporter that says they don't 677 00:33:31,400 --> 00:33:35,200 read the news anymore? Oh, it's funny enough. 678 00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:50,900 I haven't read that either. So Ilan said, will reload vacuum 679 00:33:52,300 --> 00:33:56,700 that made me really happy. Continue sir. 680 00:33:56,700 --> 00:34:00,500 Okay, so Elon says he's backing out of the deal a couple hours 681 00:34:00,500 --> 00:34:02,700 later. Bret Taylor, who is the chairman 682 00:34:02,700 --> 00:34:05,800 of Twitter tweets out. We at Twitter, think you are 683 00:34:05,800 --> 00:34:08,900 full of shit, and we will sue you to make sure that the deal 684 00:34:09,000 --> 00:34:12,300 goes through all the way citing, there's this one is able to 685 00:34:12,300 --> 00:34:15,000 specific performance clause in the contract, which basically 686 00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:18,699 means that they can see you in Chancery Court along as a sink. 687 00:34:18,699 --> 00:34:21,600 Example of the coarsening of the discourse of don't like it 688 00:34:21,600 --> 00:34:22,600 continued. Yeah, no. 689 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:25,000 You don't want Chairman's. Talking about Chancery things. 690 00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,600 Are things are in a bad place as a company when you're having to 691 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:31,000 like call Mom at the Chancery Court to fix things for you. 692 00:34:31,900 --> 00:34:35,100 So anyway so then Elon he thinks he's got a real Ace in the Hole 693 00:34:35,100 --> 00:34:38,100 because of this Bots thing. Twitter is going to take him to 694 00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:39,500 court. They've lawyer dup. 695 00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:45,699 Ilan has got Skadden Arps on his side and Twitter is got I don't 696 00:34:45,699 --> 00:34:47,900 remember some other, you know, lock tell Lipton. 697 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:50,699 I think it's real battle of the white-shoe law firms, right? 698 00:34:51,000 --> 00:34:54,400 But I guess the question throughout all of this is this 699 00:34:54,400 --> 00:34:58,700 really Over long tired episode just keeps dragging on. 700 00:34:58,700 --> 00:35:01,500 Is that why are we? And I guess I could talk about 701 00:35:01,500 --> 00:35:05,400 this episode, this episode? No continue. 702 00:35:05,400 --> 00:35:05,900 Sorry. Yeah. 703 00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:10,200 Why are we why do we care about this? 704 00:35:10,500 --> 00:35:14,500 Well, whatever it is like, I as an as an emblem, there's nothing 705 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:18,100 better than Twitter. It was this, their Twitter was 706 00:35:18,100 --> 00:35:21,400 supposed to World. Peace, was going to flow from at 707 00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:23,000 peace in the Middle East specifically. 708 00:35:23,000 --> 00:35:25,600 I think there's quite a democracy in China To they 709 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:30,300 constantly being there is going to be payback for the lunatics 710 00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:32,500 who murdered you know who murdered half the staff of 711 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,900 Charlie hebdo' Twitter was this huge phenomenon. 712 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:39,000 It was a part was going to be part of the state department was 713 00:35:39,000 --> 00:35:43,300 like it was just so this was like the most high flying part 714 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:46,900 of the of the tech boom. And like the social media, boom 715 00:35:46,900 --> 00:35:50,700 was in so many ways to Twitter and now it's like nobody wants 716 00:35:50,700 --> 00:35:52,500 to own it. Not even ship company. 717 00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:54,200 Not even this. Don't want stick? 718 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:57,400 No, no, no wants to. I run it, nobody wants to run 719 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,100 it, people are going to go to court over who, who has to have 720 00:36:01,100 --> 00:36:01,800 it? Yeah. 721 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,600 Ring, right. We're going to fight you to not 722 00:36:04,600 --> 00:36:06,800 have this yet. It's the most depressing, like 723 00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:13,100 family court trial of all time. And then you have Elon Musk, you 724 00:36:13,100 --> 00:36:14,700 should probably be like a divorce settlement. 725 00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:16,300 We're like Eli. Do you like better? 726 00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:18,300 That's the end of my family feud. 727 00:36:18,400 --> 00:36:20,300 No, no, no. It should be like a divorce 728 00:36:20,300 --> 00:36:22,000 court. They like Elon owns twittering 729 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:25,900 on like weekends and like, every third week of the month 730 00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:28,300 Wednesday, it is. Yeah, holidays. 731 00:36:28,300 --> 00:36:30,400 It gets like a month. Immuno a month, a year and like 732 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:34,300 one of iman's compounds and then like, you know, Twitter's 733 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:37,600 boredoms at the rest of the time and likely, nah, finds a new 734 00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,500 husband Twitter, hates being with Ilana. 735 00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:41,700 On holidays because it's to fight for attention with all of 736 00:36:41,700 --> 00:36:44,800 us actual children. Just like that through an 737 00:36:44,808 --> 00:36:48,100 increasingly crowded and unfriendly household, tell. 738 00:36:48,400 --> 00:36:49,900 But but other, what else is beautiful? 739 00:36:49,900 --> 00:36:53,200 Use of Twitter was drizzles defining, social media, darling 740 00:36:53,200 --> 00:36:57,000 of the of the big Tech era, no options left and then you have 741 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,000 Ilan who was supposed to be the big Genius of the industry. 742 00:37:00,300 --> 00:37:04,600 He was Tony Stark, he was the cool one, he was the person who 743 00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:07,600 was just a font of ideas, he's got nothin, except for except 744 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:09,500 for box. Exactly. 745 00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:11,500 Robots. Grunts it right? 746 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:12,900 That's all you got. Yeah. 747 00:37:12,900 --> 00:37:15,900 This it's it is it is really depressing if you think about 748 00:37:15,900 --> 00:37:19,300 it, because I do think, like, a nation's lonely eyes turned up 749 00:37:19,300 --> 00:37:22,300 toward Ilan as like The Innovation Factory. 750 00:37:22,300 --> 00:37:24,800 You know, like he did the Rockets thing, which I always 751 00:37:24,800 --> 00:37:28,700 thought was like 80% overrated, but at least it's a thing, you 752 00:37:28,700 --> 00:37:30,900 know, Nick, those are pretty cool rocket. 753 00:37:30,900 --> 00:37:32,500 Sounds like, and the electric cars. 754 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:34,900 Yeah. Debatable as to like, its 755 00:37:34,900 --> 00:37:38,200 overall environmental impact. But yes, it's new. 756 00:37:38,200 --> 00:37:40,000 That's the new thing. Yeah. 757 00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:42,200 Yeah I don't know. It all started to feel very 758 00:37:42,200 --> 00:37:46,000 rickety to me in terms of what he actually had in store when he 759 00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:48,100 was raising the financing for it. 760 00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:50,600 And the New York Times and a bunch of other outlets reported 761 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:54,700 like what he was promising for Twitter and it was so realistic. 762 00:37:55,000 --> 00:37:59,400 It is like a billion users in three years and in billions in 763 00:37:59,400 --> 00:38:03,000 profits and just all the stuff that he had no actual plan for 764 00:38:03,200 --> 00:38:06,700 really other than, like, putting Trump back on Twitter and like, 765 00:38:08,000 --> 00:38:13,600 you know, I don't know allowing every girl an image ever to you 766 00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,800 know I mean he had he had not thought it through and we've 767 00:38:15,800 --> 00:38:19,600 already let the beheadings flow. Yeah I got is this in some ways? 768 00:38:19,600 --> 00:38:22,200 Robert Denney Juniors fault because imagine if Tony Stark 769 00:38:22,200 --> 00:38:24,500 you've been played by somebody. Less cool. 770 00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:26,200 Right. Less cool. 771 00:38:26,200 --> 00:38:28,400 So Tony Stark been played by like the guy from Guardians of 772 00:38:28,400 --> 00:38:32,800 the Galaxy. Yeah, thank you, right? 773 00:38:32,800 --> 00:38:35,300 Right there. So like a song kind of Christian 774 00:38:35,400 --> 00:38:39,400 City. Tony Stark would what Elon Musk? 775 00:38:39,500 --> 00:38:41,300 Gotten that kind of residual glow up. 776 00:38:41,300 --> 00:38:43,700 I don't think so. No, I don't know. 777 00:38:43,700 --> 00:38:46,400 Thought he was like a religious zealot but yeah. 778 00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:48,500 Or what? If it were like Paul Giamatti? 779 00:38:48,500 --> 00:38:50,800 Who is cooler than Robert Downey jr. 780 00:38:50,800 --> 00:38:54,500 But like maybe closer to the actual wow. 781 00:38:54,800 --> 00:38:57,100 Yeah, exactly. What if have been Paul Giamatti 782 00:38:57,100 --> 00:39:00,300 playing Tony Stark and not like some Paul Giamatti who's gone to 783 00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:02,900 the gym and gotten a personal trainer and does a superhero 784 00:39:02,900 --> 00:39:04,100 Thing? No. 785 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:07,300 But Paul Giamatti circle like that movie about wine? 786 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:09,200 Yes. Sideways called Giamatti. 787 00:39:09,500 --> 00:39:12,400 Thank you sideways. Paul Giamatti plays, Tony Stark. 788 00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,300 We would not have the Elan problem we have today. 789 00:39:15,400 --> 00:39:22,400 All right, just fucking great. Yeah, it it he clearly believes 790 00:39:22,400 --> 00:39:26,000 in his social or he's media representation his own 791 00:39:26,000 --> 00:39:28,000 celebrity. And the fact that he is 792 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:32,400 constantly being, you know, built up by a legion of hooting 793 00:39:32,400 --> 00:39:35,200 sycophants on Twitter who I think. 794 00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:37,800 Maybe he now realized 80% of them are Bots. 795 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:42,600 Maybe that's why he's upset. Well, what's also great, is that 796 00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:46,600 as Twitter, declines as a platform, his sick offense, will 797 00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,900 need a new platform in order to get the word out. 798 00:39:49,900 --> 00:39:53,600 And they've already decided that mainstream media is not the 799 00:39:53,600 --> 00:39:56,000 place for them, so that's not going to happen. 800 00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:58,700 Twitter, just feels like somewhat of a Dying platform. 801 00:39:58,700 --> 00:40:00,400 True. Social hasn't really gone off 802 00:40:00,400 --> 00:40:03,700 the ground yet. Doesn't seem so, we're, where 803 00:40:03,700 --> 00:40:05,800 will they go? I don't think they know. 804 00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:10,200 I mean, if anything is the special tears of what Absolutely 805 00:40:10,200 --> 00:40:12,100 right. Yeah, that would be great. 806 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:14,400 Well, that was like, you know, after the electromagnetic pulse 807 00:40:14,400 --> 00:40:18,200 like destroys all technology on Earth and then those who were 808 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:20,300 ready for. Yes, just basically. 809 00:40:20,300 --> 00:40:23,400 Paul Giamatti handing out leaflets just bawled told you 810 00:40:23,408 --> 00:40:26,000 about. He is the town crier and every 811 00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:29,800 it every city around the country that would be great. 812 00:40:30,800 --> 00:40:35,600 No, I think, what's what? I find so revelatory about this 813 00:40:35,600 --> 00:40:44,300 episode, not this episode, the Twitter episode Is that there is 814 00:40:44,300 --> 00:40:46,700 no good outcome here for either party. 815 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:50,400 Nothing good will happen. I mean, Elon will maybe get by 816 00:40:50,400 --> 00:40:53,900 having only only to pay like, a couple billion dollars Twitter, 817 00:40:53,900 --> 00:40:57,200 which is go on being at sad self as a company, and Ilan has like, 818 00:40:57,200 --> 00:40:59,700 such a preview for the Democratic primary continue. 819 00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:01,500 Yeah, exactly. There's no good outcome. 820 00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:05,600 And everyone is just, you know, disaffected, and we're covering 821 00:41:05,600 --> 00:41:08,400 it as the train wreck that it's always been. 822 00:41:08,700 --> 00:41:12,100 But also with The realization that there's nothing else there 823 00:41:12,100 --> 00:41:14,500 that it, that it, that it, we've descended purely into the 824 00:41:14,500 --> 00:41:19,800 spectacle and, you know, entertainment of collapse when 825 00:41:20,300 --> 00:41:22,700 the promise of it is so far in the rearview mirror. 826 00:41:22,700 --> 00:41:26,100 No one even discussed and because we can't say the thing 827 00:41:26,100 --> 00:41:30,600 that is so Apparent from this Fiasco, which is that, you know, 828 00:41:30,600 --> 00:41:32,900 we actually can live without social media. 829 00:41:33,100 --> 00:41:36,100 We can't we can kind of just live without it right actually 830 00:41:36,100 --> 00:41:38,100 that essential. Yeah, and the people that can't 831 00:41:38,100 --> 00:41:42,200 live without it or the one. That one at the most and and are 832 00:41:42,200 --> 00:41:44,900 willing to pay for it. But apparently not as my basic. 833 00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:48,700 I'm saying, Elon can't live without social media and and so 834 00:41:48,700 --> 00:41:51,000 he's now stuck, you know getting too close to the thing that he 835 00:41:51,008 --> 00:41:53,800 thought he wanted. I think the only positive 836 00:41:53,800 --> 00:41:57,000 outcome that I could see with this is that Elon owns it at a 837 00:41:57,008 --> 00:41:58,600 lower price. That's the only thing that would 838 00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,700 be good to me. I still want them to own it. 839 00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,200 Yeah, I mean I mean obviously you know why I want him to own 840 00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,300 it so you could be right once I can be right because I said he 841 00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:09,300 was going to but two because I think it will hasten. 842 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:12,400 Ian, again, winding of the Twitter experiment. 843 00:42:12,500 --> 00:42:15,900 Hmm, some experiments I don't want me around like I would love 844 00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:19,300 for the Democratic experiment that we have engaged in for more 845 00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:21,000 than 200 years. Here, the United States to 846 00:42:21,000 --> 00:42:23,000 continue on. That is my deepest wish. 847 00:42:23,300 --> 00:42:25,500 But you know, that the Twitter experiment. 848 00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:26,700 Yeah, I think it. I think that's okay. 849 00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:29,700 If that one comes to an end. Yeah, it actually might help 850 00:42:30,000 --> 00:42:32,200 this, the, the latter experiment. 851 00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:35,800 But it's just, yeah, clearly, we can't exist with both. 852 00:42:36,100 --> 00:42:38,500 She and, I think we, as a country are having to make the 853 00:42:38,500 --> 00:42:42,000 tough decision of What do we want to see persist into the 854 00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:45,700 next, you know, decade or Century the American Democratic 855 00:42:45,700 --> 00:42:48,300 experience or social media and Twitter? 856 00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:50,900 And that's a very that's very binary. 857 00:42:50,900 --> 00:42:52,500 We're going to take that one up with Eric. 858 00:42:52,500 --> 00:42:53,800 See you? He thinks yeah. 859 00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:57,000 After he does a careful check of this episode and edits out any 860 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,100 mentions of uber that go too far into newcomer territory, right? 861 00:43:01,100 --> 00:43:04,400 So with that, you know, we're will sign off for this episode 862 00:43:04,800 --> 00:43:09,500 as the plottings text cycle. Continues onward new Come. 863 00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:13,500 We'll be back in a couple weeks. We will dive deep into the Uber 864 00:43:13,500 --> 00:43:16,100 files which maybe people remember in a couple weeks maybe 865 00:43:16,100 --> 00:43:18,200 they won't. Maybe people have read a couple 866 00:43:18,200 --> 00:43:19,000 weeks. Maybe. 867 00:43:19,000 --> 00:43:19,800 Yeah. That's right. 868 00:43:19,800 --> 00:43:21,300 Take take some time during your vacation to read. 869 00:43:21,300 --> 00:43:24,000 The Uber files. Check back in with us and we'll 870 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,800 have a lot to say about it but until then, thanks Katie. 871 00:43:28,000 --> 00:43:29,900 All right, dog days of summer. Episode part. 872 00:43:29,900 --> 00:43:33,100 One is in the can. All right, we did it. 873 00:43:45,100 --> 00:43:46,400 Goodbye. Goodbye. 874 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,800 Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Goodbye.