1
00:00:00,240 --> 00:00:02,320
What do Sam Altman and the Pope 
have in common? 

2
00:00:02,480 --> 00:00:06,680
They're both on newcomers list 
of the top quotes from 2025. 

3
00:00:06,680 --> 00:00:11,120
We've got 18 quotations from 
business leaders, tech Titans, 

4
00:00:11,280 --> 00:00:13,800
politicians and industry 
insiders. 

5
00:00:13,960 --> 00:00:17,160
Everything from Jensen Wong 
talking about America winning 

6
00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:20,720
the AI race to Elon Musk 
signaling the demise of his 

7
00:00:20,720 --> 00:00:23,800
relationship with Donald Trump, 
and even Sam Altman talking 

8
00:00:23,880 --> 00:00:27,960
about his GPT parenting skills 
with Jimmy Fallon, Senators, the

9
00:00:27,960 --> 00:00:31,040
Vice president, and even the 
Pope hope we'll all make an 

10
00:00:31,040 --> 00:00:34,120
appearance on our list of the 
most important and impactful 

11
00:00:34,120 --> 00:00:38,720
quotes of 2025. 
This is the newcomer podcast. 

12
00:00:45,600 --> 00:00:49,040
Welcome to the newcomer podcast.
One of our favorite things here 

13
00:00:49,040 --> 00:00:53,040
is to look back at the year 
through quotes. 

14
00:00:53,240 --> 00:01:00,000
Some spicy, some profound, some 
inane, some we think are 

15
00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,240
embarrassing. 
We are looking for a mix of 

16
00:01:03,240 --> 00:01:06,720
quotes from high profile 
speakers. 

17
00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,360
We've got, you know, everybody 
from Sam Altman to the Pope in 

18
00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:14,560
this list. 
Madeline Renbarger, yours truly 

19
00:01:14,560 --> 00:01:17,720
on the podcast, is the main 
compiler here. 

20
00:01:17,720 --> 00:01:22,560
So we'll she'll she'll help 
explain which ones we picked. 

21
00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:24,880
I'll. 
Have to defend myself on the POD

22
00:01:24,920 --> 00:01:28,120
for why I think this is the most
important quote of the year. 

23
00:01:28,320 --> 00:01:30,600
Exactly. 
And we we weighed in and then 

24
00:01:30,800 --> 00:01:34,880
and you'll have Tom Doton's 
melodious voice reading the 

25
00:01:34,880 --> 00:01:37,400
quotes to you. 
I like to give Tom all the 

26
00:01:37,400 --> 00:01:40,240
reading assignments. 
He's he's our audio book kind. 

27
00:01:40,240 --> 00:01:42,800
Of sure, yeah, Popcorn. 
In a different life, though, I 

28
00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:45,680
think you could have been an 
audio book reader. 

29
00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:47,680
So yeah, we'll, we'll get into 
it. 

30
00:01:47,840 --> 00:01:50,400
We have 18 quotes here. 
I think you're gonna get a great

31
00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:56,200
snapshot of the wild 2025 and 
maybe that'll give us a little 

32
00:01:56,200 --> 00:02:00,000
bit of a lens into what to look 
for this year. 

33
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,880
It will be no surprise that 
artificial intelligence looms 

34
00:02:02,880 --> 00:02:05,000
large. 
This podcast, obviously we 

35
00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,800
talked about AIA lot, so not 
surprising we'd be interested in

36
00:02:07,800 --> 00:02:09,680
those quotes. 
But I think, you know, we're 

37
00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:12,000
we're quoting the Pope here. 
We're quoting, you know, the 

38
00:02:12,000 --> 00:02:14,200
vice president. 
So yeah, without further ado, 

39
00:02:14,200 --> 00:02:19,120
let's get into the 18 quotes 
that defined 2025 from CE, OS, 

40
00:02:19,120 --> 00:02:22,720
VCs, political leaders, and 
everybody else. 

41
00:02:23,000 --> 00:02:26,640
I'll do my best to read these in
character too, OK? 

42
00:02:26,640 --> 00:02:28,920
That wasn't even the mandate. 
Well, we'll see if that if that 

43
00:02:28,920 --> 00:02:31,280
works even anyway. 
OK, we stand now with the 

44
00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:35,200
frontier of an AI industry that 
is hungry for reliable power and

45
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:38,800
high quality semiconductors. 
Yet too many of our friends are 

46
00:02:38,800 --> 00:02:42,280
deindustrializing on the one 
hand and chasing reliable power 

47
00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:44,760
out of their nations and off 
their grids with the other. 

48
00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,480
The AI future is not going to be
won by hand wringing about 

49
00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,120
safety. 
It'll be won by building from 

50
00:02:51,120 --> 00:02:53,600
reliable power plants to the 
manufacturing facilities that 

51
00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:55,440
can produce the chips of the 
future. 

52
00:02:55,760 --> 00:02:59,240
That is JD Vance on the need for
less AI regulation at the Paris 

53
00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:02,640
AI Action Summit, February 11th,
2025. 

54
00:03:03,000 --> 00:03:05,200
Madeline, why did this stand out
to you? 

55
00:03:05,360 --> 00:03:09,120
Well, this quote I felt like was
really kicking off the year with

56
00:03:09,120 --> 00:03:13,000
the US on the global stage and 
JD Vance of all people telling 

57
00:03:13,000 --> 00:03:16,800
Europe that they need to LAX 
their AI regulations and get out

58
00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:18,560
of the way for American 
innovation. 

59
00:03:18,560 --> 00:03:22,440
And I felt like both politically
on lots of fronts, but the tech 

60
00:03:22,440 --> 00:03:25,880
industry at large in our era of 
effective acceleration, ISM, you

61
00:03:25,880 --> 00:03:29,640
had, you know, the commander in 
chief's, you know, second in 

62
00:03:29,640 --> 00:03:34,040
command there basically saying, 
yeah, let's go. 

63
00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:37,640
It's time to build Marc 
Andreessen, you know, in front. 

64
00:03:37,640 --> 00:03:40,800
Of everyone, no safety net. 
No safety and the safety 

65
00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:43,160
regulations are only hindering, 
you know, our future. 

66
00:03:43,520 --> 00:03:47,840
And in many ways also it was not
a very global friendly speech. 

67
00:03:47,840 --> 00:03:52,080
Other parts of the speech, you 
know, kind of shit on, you know?

68
00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,000
Right, kicking off American 
antagonism towards Europe. 

69
00:03:55,000 --> 00:03:56,800
Basically, we're like, yeah, but
we're going to do this, and you 

70
00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:58,720
better get out of the way. 
It was very, you know, 

71
00:03:59,440 --> 00:04:02,480
isolationist as well. 
I mean, to me, this is just JD 

72
00:04:02,560 --> 00:04:06,720
Advance and the administration 
doing full business capture of 

73
00:04:06,720 --> 00:04:08,560
the tech industry. 
This is what they paid for. 

74
00:04:08,840 --> 00:04:10,320
This is why they wanted him in 
office. 

75
00:04:10,320 --> 00:04:12,400
They wanted no regulation. 
They wanted tech to be in 

76
00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:17,760
control of all policy writing. 
They have the quasi VC as vice 

77
00:04:17,760 --> 00:04:20,320
president going up there and 
telling Europeans that they 

78
00:04:20,320 --> 00:04:22,840
should not regulate any of our 
Great American companies. 

79
00:04:23,120 --> 00:04:24,960
It's not going out there talking
about Mistral. 

80
00:04:25,160 --> 00:04:27,280
It's not telling these people 
don't don't be regulating 

81
00:04:27,280 --> 00:04:30,440
Mistral and fluid stack like and
lovable. 

82
00:04:30,640 --> 00:04:33,720
Like they want to make sure that
open AI, which is, you know, Sam

83
00:04:34,120 --> 00:04:36,280
lobbied very hard to get, you 
know, positioning in the 

84
00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:39,360
administration to to to leave us
alone. 

85
00:04:39,360 --> 00:04:41,560
So hand wringing about safety. 
EW Gross. 

86
00:04:42,000 --> 00:04:44,640
We don't want, I mean, what this
is in February, you know, a 

87
00:04:44,640 --> 00:04:48,440
couple things happen. 
We recently we got the AI 

88
00:04:48,440 --> 00:04:51,960
executive order trying to ban 
states from regulating AI. 

89
00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:54,320
Who knows how effective that 
will be. 

90
00:04:54,320 --> 00:04:57,200
So it's not just trying to block
Europe, it's trying to tell 

91
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,320
states no regulation. 
There was an interesting piece, 

92
00:05:00,800 --> 00:05:04,800
I, I believe it was in Politico,
about how some of the tech 

93
00:05:04,800 --> 00:05:10,200
lobbyists are worried that David
Sachs and crew are overplaying 

94
00:05:10,200 --> 00:05:14,320
their hand on AI friendliness. 
That basically by saying no 

95
00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:18,440
regulation, there's going to be 
such a huge backlash that this, 

96
00:05:18,440 --> 00:05:22,640
this strategy of saying, you 
know, no regulation for AI is 

97
00:05:22,640 --> 00:05:25,040
only going to create more 
enemies. 

98
00:05:25,040 --> 00:05:27,840
And I think that that'll emerge 
as we keep going through these 

99
00:05:27,840 --> 00:05:29,600
quotes. 
I mean, Tom, you had a good 

100
00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,760
story earlier this year about 
the AI industry being really 

101
00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,760
upset about Texas law, about 
energy getting cut off to data, 

102
00:05:36,920 --> 00:05:38,920
AI data centers first in the 
state. 

103
00:05:38,920 --> 00:05:42,800
So it's not a given that the 
steamroll no regulation AI 

104
00:05:42,800 --> 00:05:46,080
policy will even fly with 
Republican senators too. 

105
00:05:46,160 --> 00:05:47,680
Yeah. 
And it's notable that this quote

106
00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,320
is from February. 
I think a lot has changed in the

107
00:05:50,320 --> 00:05:53,480
way people view AI, specifically
its political valence. 

108
00:05:53,520 --> 00:05:57,120
And at the end of the year, we 
had people like, I think Marco 

109
00:05:57,120 --> 00:06:02,280
Rubio and probably Josh Hawley 
talking about concerns over AI 

110
00:06:02,280 --> 00:06:04,840
and the effect it was going to 
have on jobs and power. 

111
00:06:04,840 --> 00:06:08,000
And, you know, like inflation 
becoming a major issue and 

112
00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,520
whether or not it's related to 
like the cost of power and 

113
00:06:10,520 --> 00:06:13,280
whether AI is driving that up 
became really problematic. 

114
00:06:13,280 --> 00:06:16,560
So things I would be 
interesting, Obviously, low 

115
00:06:16,560 --> 00:06:18,760
regulation, that's probably 
going to remain consistent. 

116
00:06:18,760 --> 00:06:22,400
But the idea that, like AI and, 
you know, is aligned with the 

117
00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:25,600
Republican Party is not really 
the case. 

118
00:06:26,040 --> 00:06:27,120
Yeah. 
All right. 

119
00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,120
Let's let's move on to our 
second quote of 2025, Tom. 

120
00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,760
All right. 
For some of these companies, for

121
00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:37,720
a lot of our customers, it will 
be existential kind of life and 

122
00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,840
death decisions. 
And that is Ryan Peterson, a 

123
00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:43,960
podcast guest at one point, 
right, Eric? 

124
00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:47,880
Yep, Flexports CEO. 
He's talking about how President

125
00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:51,520
Trump's tariffs will impact 
large retailers that rely on his

126
00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:55,880
logistics software at Strictly 
VC in San Francisco on April 

127
00:06:55,920 --> 00:06:58,320
7th. 
Ryan Peterson is like Silicon 

128
00:06:58,320 --> 00:07:03,040
Valley's Tariff and Trade Peru 
running one of the most real 

129
00:07:03,040 --> 00:07:05,280
world startups in silicon. 
Valley, I was going to say, I 

130
00:07:05,280 --> 00:07:09,240
picked this one in part because 
he's, you know, the logistics 

131
00:07:09,240 --> 00:07:11,280
infrastructure guy in Silicon 
Valley. 

132
00:07:11,280 --> 00:07:14,760
He's been incredibly successful 
with growing Flex port and it's 

133
00:07:14,760 --> 00:07:18,920
a startup that is really 
dependent on government trade 

134
00:07:18,920 --> 00:07:21,800
policy. 
It's a logistics of software 

135
00:07:21,800 --> 00:07:25,920
company handles these big deals.
So he became, you know, Silicon 

136
00:07:25,920 --> 00:07:28,880
Valley's point person, like you 
said, Eric, during the tariff 

137
00:07:28,880 --> 00:07:30,520
fiasco. 
Like how does this affect us? 

138
00:07:30,520 --> 00:07:32,720
How does this affect us? 
He went on, you know, lots of 

139
00:07:32,720 --> 00:07:36,880
shows explaining but and live 
tweeting as the policies rolled 

140
00:07:36,880 --> 00:07:38,200
out. 
And what's interesting is that 

141
00:07:38,200 --> 00:07:41,760
was tariff moment #1 the tariffs
have changed quite a bit 

142
00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:44,080
throughout the year too. 
That was a few days after 

143
00:07:44,080 --> 00:07:46,360
Liberation Day, right? 
Yes, fresh. 

144
00:07:46,560 --> 00:07:48,320
Liberation Day. 
We were liberated then. 

145
00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:52,920
I will say, I mean right now the
news of today at least is GDP is

146
00:07:52,920 --> 00:07:55,440
doing well. 
I think the New York Times 

147
00:07:55,440 --> 00:07:58,320
headline was GDP is doing well 
despite tariffs. 

148
00:07:58,320 --> 00:08:01,320
And I don't know, it was Sax or 
one of the Trump aligned people 

149
00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,480
was sort of snarking the New 
York Times for putting tariffs 

150
00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,440
still in the headline when it's 
like OK, GDP seems to be OK. 

151
00:08:08,440 --> 00:08:14,080
So I don't know, has has the 
existential crisis manifested? 

152
00:08:14,560 --> 00:08:18,320
Well, I mean, this sort of is 
getting away from AI and tech 

153
00:08:18,320 --> 00:08:22,320
specifically, but like, I think 
there's an incredibly pervasive 

154
00:08:22,320 --> 00:08:26,120
mood among the American public 
that the economy isn't doing 

155
00:08:26,120 --> 00:08:28,720
well right now. 
And whether that's psychological

156
00:08:28,720 --> 00:08:31,520
or real is sort of unclear. 
And I don't want to get in like 

157
00:08:31,520 --> 00:08:34,000
the will stancil fight of like, 
people don't really know what it

158
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:38,200
means for prices to go up. 
But Trump has bad approval 

159
00:08:38,200 --> 00:08:39,799
ratings right now. 
One of his lowest. 

160
00:08:39,799 --> 00:08:43,640
God, I feel like Jason Calcanis,
like one of his lowest ranking 

161
00:08:43,640 --> 00:08:45,480
categories within this is the 
economy. 

162
00:08:45,480 --> 00:08:48,640
People are not happy about 
basically rising prices. 

163
00:08:48,680 --> 00:08:51,680
And one of the things that they 
point to were the tariffs. 

164
00:08:52,120 --> 00:08:54,880
And so was it existential for 
some of these companies? 

165
00:08:54,880 --> 00:08:57,280
I don't know. 
You've seen retailers raising 

166
00:08:57,280 --> 00:08:59,960
prices, blaming the tariffs for 
their reasons for it. 

167
00:09:01,120 --> 00:09:05,760
So like, I think it's 
contributed pure life and death.

168
00:09:06,360 --> 00:09:08,360
Yeah. 
If they continued at the insane 

169
00:09:08,360 --> 00:09:11,280
Liberation Day levels, it 
probably would have been 

170
00:09:11,680 --> 00:09:14,240
incredibly difficult for 
retailers to to make things 

171
00:09:14,240 --> 00:09:15,200
work. 
Right. 

172
00:09:15,200 --> 00:09:18,600
There have been several backroom
deals that have lowered them on 

173
00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,200
specific countries and 
concessions that other countries

174
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:24,600
have made where it's not kind of
as blanket as it was on 

175
00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,720
Liberation Day for a lot of the 
US biggest trading partners. 

176
00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,480
So maybe we do it less, but 
you're totally right that 

177
00:09:30,480 --> 00:09:34,080
consumer sentiment is down, 
down, down on the economy. 

178
00:09:34,080 --> 00:09:37,400
Even if people are still 
spending, they're very unhappy 

179
00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:41,600
about what the the prices 
they're paying. 2025 was a year 

180
00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,480
living under the cloud of 
tariffs, which I don't think any

181
00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:48,240
serious person think helped us. 
And the president should thank 

182
00:09:48,240 --> 00:09:52,440
God that all this AOAI 
infrastructure spending has just

183
00:09:52,440 --> 00:09:56,360
been a gift to the economy, You 
know, just like build, build, 

184
00:09:56,360 --> 00:10:00,440
build for a still somewhat 
uncertain technology. 

185
00:10:00,440 --> 00:10:03,320
And yeah, the Trump 
administration got lucky on that

186
00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,760
one as they were creating their 
own self-inflicted wound with 

187
00:10:06,760 --> 00:10:09,640
tariffs. 
Let's go to #3. 

188
00:10:10,040 --> 00:10:11,720
All right. 
Today, the Church offers its 

189
00:10:11,720 --> 00:10:14,440
trove of social teaching to 
respond to another industrial 

190
00:10:14,440 --> 00:10:17,080
revolution and to innovations in
the field of artificial 

191
00:10:17,080 --> 00:10:20,040
intelligence that pose 
challenges to human dignity, 

192
00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,880
justice and labor. 
That's Pope Leo, the woke Pope 

193
00:10:24,600 --> 00:10:27,320
in a speech to Cardinals two 
days after being sworn in. 

194
00:10:27,560 --> 00:10:30,600
Yeah, I picked this one because,
well, one thing I found 

195
00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:33,640
interesting about the woke Pope 
is that he picked the name Leo, 

196
00:10:33,640 --> 00:10:37,040
and he said this in relation to 
the first Pope. 

197
00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:42,400
Leo came about in early, you 
know, hundreds AD about 

198
00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:45,720
technological upheaval and he 
was he's really focused on 

199
00:10:45,840 --> 00:10:49,000
artificial intelligence as an 
issue that will have profound 

200
00:10:49,000 --> 00:10:52,080
social and religious impact on 
the world. 

201
00:10:52,320 --> 00:10:54,280
And he's paying very close 
attention to it. 

202
00:10:54,280 --> 00:10:57,520
And it doesn't surprise me, 
frankly, that the first American

203
00:10:57,520 --> 00:11:01,600
Pope ever is, you know, tuned 
into American innovation and 

204
00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:03,960
what's going on in our business 
sphere over here. 

205
00:11:03,960 --> 00:11:08,080
But I picked it because he's 
expressing that he's gonna be 

206
00:11:08,080 --> 00:11:11,840
focused on this throughout his 
papacy as a very big issue. 

207
00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,600
And then what's? 
The other do we consider the do 

208
00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,120
we consider the other quote 
wasn't there There was a Pope 

209
00:11:19,120 --> 00:11:22,400
quote later in the year. 
I mean, this is a good one where

210
00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:27,320
the Pope said something equally 
benign about AI and like Marc 

211
00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:31,000
Andreessen shit on it. 
And then Marc Andreessen had. 

212
00:11:31,080 --> 00:11:33,880
A quitter beef fight with the 
Pope, right? 

213
00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:35,640
Because I think we should put 
that one in this one. 

214
00:11:35,640 --> 00:11:38,760
I sort of forgot about that one.
Can you pull that one up too? 

215
00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,120
Yeah, I can pull that one up. 
I picked this one because this 

216
00:11:41,120 --> 00:11:45,520
was his first speech to be so 
this was we're talking about. 

217
00:11:45,720 --> 00:11:47,120
AI in my. 
Yeah. 

218
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:50,640
This Pope has said relatively 
mild things about, you know, 

219
00:11:50,640 --> 00:11:53,360
being thoughtful about AI. 
He picked his name after 

220
00:11:53,360 --> 00:11:57,120
somebody who navigated, not 
resisted necessarily another 

221
00:11:57,280 --> 00:12:00,960
technological revolution. 
And some of the tech community 

222
00:12:00,960 --> 00:12:03,400
can't even seem to stomach like,
hey, we should. 

223
00:12:03,480 --> 00:12:06,840
We should be moral about this 
thing, which seems like the 

224
00:12:06,840 --> 00:12:10,360
Pope's job to remind us. 
I always have mixed feelings 

225
00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:15,840
about conflating morality with 
the technology because with AI, 

226
00:12:15,840 --> 00:12:18,640
it makes me worry that, like, 
people are talking about the 

227
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:22,120
morality of the AI itself, like,
it is imbued with some sort of 

228
00:12:22,120 --> 00:12:25,040
intelligence and emotional 
capabilities when really it's 

229
00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:27,160
just the humans that are in 
control of it. 

230
00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:30,080
And you know, how readily you 
want to implement this 

231
00:12:30,080 --> 00:12:32,360
technology basically to displace
people. 

232
00:12:33,840 --> 00:12:36,040
And which is why labor is an 
important thing for him to bring

233
00:12:36,040 --> 00:12:37,960
up. 
You know, I don't want to, like,

234
00:12:37,960 --> 00:12:41,560
take Marc Andreessen's side. 
It was such an obnoxious tweet. 

235
00:12:42,200 --> 00:12:44,480
Well, the tweet wasn't I. 
OK, I finally did pull up the 

236
00:12:44,480 --> 00:12:45,880
tweet. 
We can't even quote it because 

237
00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:49,000
it was a GIF reaction, but it 
was it. 

238
00:12:49,080 --> 00:12:51,480
Was the woman it? 
Was the interviewer from the 

239
00:12:51,480 --> 00:12:54,520
Sydney Sweeney interview about 
her great jeans when she asked 

240
00:12:54,520 --> 00:12:55,720
her about the American Eagle 
Act? 

241
00:12:55,720 --> 00:12:58,960
So it's like reference. 
The Pope is tweeting about AI. 

242
00:12:59,120 --> 00:13:02,960
Marc Andreessen replies with a 
reaction image from the Sydney 

243
00:13:02,960 --> 00:13:05,440
Sweeney interview controversy. 
It was like, come on. 

244
00:13:06,280 --> 00:13:07,640
Yeah, it all it all sort of 
sucked. 

245
00:13:07,640 --> 00:13:10,480
And I know we'll get as this 
progresses like more and more 

246
00:13:10,480 --> 00:13:13,880
into like the tech MAGA, right, 
and how they fared throughout 

247
00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:15,400
the course of the year. 
So I don't want I don't want to 

248
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,560
blow it all here. 
But, you know, good on the Pope 

249
00:13:18,560 --> 00:13:22,040
for talking about labor, because
that really is eventually going 

250
00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,720
to be one of the central 
inanimating forces of what AI 

251
00:13:25,720 --> 00:13:28,960
means for the economy. 
And to put that front and center

252
00:13:28,960 --> 00:13:31,600
and say we need to talk about 
that as much as possible seems 

253
00:13:31,600 --> 00:13:33,440
like a good idea. 
It's important. 

254
00:13:33,440 --> 00:13:37,360
I my issue on labor is always is
it taking the benefits of AI and

255
00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,520
restructuring our safety net and
figuring out new jobs or 

256
00:13:40,720 --> 00:13:44,680
whenever you hear labor and AI 
you think like, well, you know, 

257
00:13:44,760 --> 00:13:49,240
local in New York just vetoed 
this legislation that was meant 

258
00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,400
to require 2 MTA workers instead
of just one, right? 

259
00:13:53,520 --> 00:13:57,600
Like I don't think the answer 
should be creating make work 

260
00:13:57,600 --> 00:14:01,840
jobs or handicapping AI so. 
That right people, and I think 

261
00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:05,160
Sam, Sam has talked about that. 
Too. 

262
00:14:05,880 --> 00:14:09,560
Yeah, saying like, you know, 
some of these jobs that are 

263
00:14:09,560 --> 00:14:12,520
gonna be replaced by AIS weren't
even really jobs in the 1st 

264
00:14:12,520 --> 00:14:14,560
place and we should kind of 
question their validity. 

265
00:14:14,560 --> 00:14:16,760
And he got a lot of shit for 
that. 

266
00:14:16,920 --> 00:14:19,200
I actually think that's true to 
an extent. 

267
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,960
I think there are a lot of like 
make work is OK, Sure, we can 

268
00:14:22,960 --> 00:14:27,000
call them make work jobs, but 
it's like basically things that 

269
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:29,400
were created to give people 
thing that is make work. 

270
00:14:29,760 --> 00:14:31,880
Like, you know, e-mail jobs. 
Basic. 

271
00:14:31,880 --> 00:14:33,440
Bullshit jobs. 
I think there's a whole book 

272
00:14:33,440 --> 00:14:37,720
about it #4 our 4th quote of 
2025. 

273
00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:40,800
I think it didn't exist. 
I think it was a fiction to some

274
00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,040
extent. 
That was Jackie Reese's at the 

275
00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:44,960
Breaking the Bank summit hosted 
by Newcomer. 

276
00:14:45,920 --> 00:14:48,240
And this was on the narrative 
that the Biden administration 

277
00:14:48,240 --> 00:14:50,480
was de banking institutions 
affiliated with 

278
00:14:50,480 --> 00:14:53,720
cryptocurrencies. 
That was from May. 

279
00:14:54,320 --> 00:14:56,040
Yeah. 
So Jackie Reese's CEO of Lead 

280
00:14:56,040 --> 00:15:02,400
Bank, she was basically refuting
kind of a narrative that had 

281
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:06,520
come up in this sort of crypto 
wave of the election that the 

282
00:15:06,520 --> 00:15:09,760
Biden administration had been 
actively, you know, shutting 

283
00:15:09,760 --> 00:15:12,360
down these companies that wanted
to do crypto. 

284
00:15:12,360 --> 00:15:15,720
And this narrative that like, 
oh, we really wanted to do this,

285
00:15:15,720 --> 00:15:17,400
but the regulators were way too 
strict. 

286
00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:18,880
And I do think there was some 
credence to that. 

287
00:15:18,880 --> 00:15:20,560
The Biden administration was 
pretty harsh on crypto 

288
00:15:20,560 --> 00:15:22,880
companies. 
But, you know, five months after

289
00:15:22,880 --> 00:15:25,760
Trump is sworn in, you have, you
know, the leader of this 

290
00:15:25,760 --> 00:15:28,040
financial institution who's very
involved with these companies 

291
00:15:28,040 --> 00:15:30,480
basically saying, yeah, it, that
didn't really happen. 

292
00:15:30,560 --> 00:15:33,040
That wasn't true. 
I don't know if I believe her 

293
00:15:33,120 --> 00:15:37,800
and obviously I am politically 
inclined to believe her and say,

294
00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,760
oh, the Democrats problems were 
overstated. 

295
00:15:40,760 --> 00:15:43,240
But I don't know. 
I, I think the Biden 

296
00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,560
administration was clearly 
pretty hostile to 

297
00:15:45,560 --> 00:15:48,240
cryptocurrencies. 
And some of these companies had 

298
00:15:48,240 --> 00:15:52,960
trouble connecting with the 
financial system partially 

299
00:15:52,960 --> 00:15:56,160
because they were probably doing
things that might, might not 

300
00:15:56,160 --> 00:15:58,360
have been legal. 
But I I think the Biden 

301
00:15:58,360 --> 00:16:01,800
administration would have been 
much better served to say more 

302
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:07,480
stuff was bad and illegal than 
to let them operate in this 

303
00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:10,640
terrifying Gray area which 
created all sorts of problems. 

304
00:16:10,640 --> 00:16:13,440
So, I don't know, subjective 
call. 

305
00:16:13,440 --> 00:16:15,920
This is why I picked this. 
Quote though because I like not 

306
00:16:15,920 --> 00:16:17,400
everyone will agree with her 
statement. 

307
00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:19,120
Exactly. 
You know Eric has a dissenting 

308
00:16:19,120 --> 00:16:22,320
take. 
All right #5 quote of the year. 

309
00:16:22,640 --> 00:16:25,600
I was disappointed to see the 
massive spending bill, frankly, 

310
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,800
which increases the budget 
deficit, not just decreases it 

311
00:16:28,800 --> 00:16:31,280
and undermines the work that the
Doge team is doing. 

312
00:16:31,840 --> 00:16:35,560
That's Elon on the Republican 
that the big beautiful bill, 

313
00:16:36,360 --> 00:16:40,280
which kind of sets up the big 
breakup between him and Trump, 

314
00:16:40,280 --> 00:16:43,400
and that's in May. 
That exactly. 

315
00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:47,360
That was the line that set off 
the fight, and it's hard to 

316
00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:51,840
quote massive Twitter and Truth 
Social sub tweeting back and 

317
00:16:51,840 --> 00:16:54,080
forth in a newsletter in the 
same way. 

318
00:16:54,080 --> 00:16:57,600
So I figured this could be a 
good signpost for the moment. 

319
00:16:57,600 --> 00:17:00,840
But I would say as a moment in 
tech, obviously without a doubt 

320
00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:03,600
one of the biggest stories of 
the year and most significant 

321
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:08,520
things happening was the Trump 
Elon Doge fallout and RIP Doge. 

322
00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,000
Yeah, and now the consensus is 
basically Doge did nothing of 

323
00:17:13,000 --> 00:17:15,359
value, certainly didn't bring 
down. 

324
00:17:15,960 --> 00:17:18,800
They barely cut the debt set at 
all. 

325
00:17:18,960 --> 00:17:22,280
They really didn't even. 
It was miniscule compared to how

326
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:23,520
much the federal government 
spends. 

327
00:17:23,520 --> 00:17:25,839
Obviously this bill is part of 
that because it increased 

328
00:17:25,839 --> 00:17:28,960
spending, but I think it's not 
controversial at all to say DOGE

329
00:17:28,960 --> 00:17:31,040
was a failure. 
I want to take a little bit of 

330
00:17:31,040 --> 00:17:35,440
credit on this show. 
This tweet from Elon comes in 

331
00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:40,200
late May and I know on this show
this was in the wake of the 

332
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,960
Wisconsin election that Elon had
spent millions of dollars on 

333
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:45,280
that blew up in the Republicans 
faces. 

334
00:17:45,280 --> 00:17:48,040
And I think I said on the show, 
I think this is the beginning of

335
00:17:48,040 --> 00:17:50,720
the end of Elon's political 
influence. 

336
00:17:50,720 --> 00:17:53,160
And really, I think that, you 
know, the, the, the tables 

337
00:17:53,160 --> 00:17:56,560
turning against Trump and like 
the honeymoon period beginning 

338
00:17:56,560 --> 00:17:59,040
of administration falling. 
And that is absolutely true 

339
00:17:59,040 --> 00:18:03,320
turned out to be the case within
a couple of weeks or days of the

340
00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:05,920
Wisconsin election. 
You have the doge fallout. 

341
00:18:06,160 --> 00:18:09,200
You have the entire rupture 
between Elon, I'm sorry, like 

342
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:10,880
the doge starting to collapse, 
the rupture between Elon and 

343
00:18:10,880 --> 00:18:13,160
Trump, Trump's approval ratings 
start to fall. 

344
00:18:13,360 --> 00:18:15,920
And you really start seeing that
tech's whole bet on the Trump 

345
00:18:15,920 --> 00:18:20,960
administration has looked in 
some respects really, I don't 

346
00:18:20,960 --> 00:18:24,000
know, just not playing panning 
out for any any length of time. 

347
00:18:24,600 --> 00:18:27,280
And so I we're going to talk 
more about this with the other 

348
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,680
quotes, but like this is another
one didn't work. 

349
00:18:29,680 --> 00:18:32,840
Out and Elon eventually tweets 
like Trump's in the Epstein 

350
00:18:32,840 --> 00:18:38,080
files which obviously very true 
and sort of consuming today. 

351
00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,440
I mean you know we're we're sort
of swinging back around where 

352
00:18:43,440 --> 00:18:47,720
Elon is preparing to fund the 
Republicans in the midterms. 

353
00:18:47,720 --> 00:18:51,600
It seems like Trump and Elon 
are, you know, healing some of 

354
00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:57,160
their disagreements. 
And so, yeah, in a fairly short 

355
00:18:57,160 --> 00:19:00,760
amount of time, we saw Elon 
being sort of, I don't know what

356
00:19:00,760 --> 00:19:04,760
the favorite son sort of at odd 
Trump's arm at every opportunity

357
00:19:04,760 --> 00:19:09,880
doing doge access to sort of 
every file, then falling out 

358
00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,800
saying Trump was in the Epstein 
files. 

359
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,000
And now somehow they've already 
repaired the relationship. 

360
00:19:17,520 --> 00:19:22,080
Crazy, crazy arc in 2025. 
Quote number six. 

361
00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:25,040
We've never seen anything like 
the user growth of ChatGPT, 

362
00:19:25,360 --> 00:19:28,520
particularly outside the US, and
it shows how the global dynamics

363
00:19:28,520 --> 00:19:30,440
of tech and distribution have 
changed. 

364
00:19:30,560 --> 00:19:35,480
That's Mary Meeker from her, I'm
assuming annual trend report and

365
00:19:35,480 --> 00:19:39,000
that is the that's in May. 
Yeah, so this was picked. 

366
00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:42,800
Mary Meeker, Bond Capital, 
writes the Tech Trend report 

367
00:19:42,800 --> 00:19:46,480
that sort of sets the tone of 
every year of what are the main 

368
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:49,720
changes in tech innovation or 
trends people should be 

369
00:19:49,720 --> 00:19:52,920
following. 
And this was the first year she 

370
00:19:52,920 --> 00:19:56,480
actually made the tech trend 
report, the AI trend report. 

371
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:58,200
Like she was like, this is so 
big. 

372
00:19:58,200 --> 00:20:00,560
This is completely changing the 
ecosystem. 

373
00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,520
This is the thing that we need 
to cover and follow. 

374
00:20:03,520 --> 00:20:07,560
And everything will fall forward
from that because it's just AI 

375
00:20:07,560 --> 00:20:09,000
everything. 
And I think that's true. 

376
00:20:09,240 --> 00:20:13,040
I figured, you know, we should 
put in the Hall of Fame, speaker

377
00:20:13,040 --> 00:20:15,920
of tech trend truths into our 
newsletter. 

378
00:20:16,040 --> 00:20:18,560
She called it. 
Exactly. 

379
00:20:18,560 --> 00:20:20,360
And it's not, you know, it's 
revenue too. 

380
00:20:20,360 --> 00:20:26,440
I mean, it is Chachi PG has just
grown faster than basically any 

381
00:20:26,440 --> 00:20:31,640
tech product in the world. 
And for for whatever worry and, 

382
00:20:31,640 --> 00:20:36,240
you know, skepticism we have 
about multiples and valuations 

383
00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:40,400
and profits, it is a rocket ship
like none other. 

384
00:20:41,040 --> 00:20:43,280
And every investor has reacted 
to that. 

385
00:20:43,480 --> 00:20:46,680
I guess my quick take would be 
that this is something that the 

386
00:20:46,680 --> 00:20:49,080
haters have to reckon with on 
AI. 

387
00:20:49,400 --> 00:20:53,960
Like you can talk about how 
consumptive it is and you know 

388
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:56,520
its effect on creativity and 
jobs and all these things. 

389
00:20:56,520 --> 00:21:00,560
But to call it a scam, to call 
it useless, denies the fact that

390
00:21:00,560 --> 00:21:04,640
there are currently around 900 
million weekly users on this one

391
00:21:04,640 --> 00:21:06,720
product. 
And if you want to tell all 

392
00:21:06,720 --> 00:21:08,480
these people that they're 
wasting their time and there's 

393
00:21:08,480 --> 00:21:11,920
no value to it because you don't
like it, just be honest about 

394
00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:14,320
that. 
But like, and listen, I have a 

395
00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,360
million problems with AII. 
Don't know where this whole 

396
00:21:16,360 --> 00:21:19,640
thing is going to go. 
But like the anti AI crowd, has 

397
00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:22,160
not really digested what it 
means for this to be the fastest

398
00:21:22,160 --> 00:21:26,040
growing product of all time. 
All right, our seventh top quote

399
00:21:26,400 --> 00:21:29,040
for 2025. 
America's unique advantage that 

400
00:21:29,040 --> 00:21:31,440
no country could possibly have 
is President Trump. 

401
00:21:32,440 --> 00:21:37,200
That's Jensen Kwong on Trump's 
embrace of the AI industry at 

402
00:21:37,200 --> 00:21:40,280
the Winning the AI Race Summit 
in DC from July. 

403
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:44,560
That was a selection in part 
because I was, you know, I, I 

404
00:21:44,560 --> 00:21:47,520
was giving them a handout 
because I was banished to the 

405
00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,040
far end of the press room when I
went to cover this event. 

406
00:21:51,920 --> 00:21:56,320
I of course, I remember that, 
but I felt like Jensen's public 

407
00:21:56,320 --> 00:21:59,240
statements, especially in DCI 
know we're kind of policy heavy 

408
00:21:59,240 --> 00:22:03,720
on the front half of this year. 
But it was, you know, a pretty 

409
00:22:03,720 --> 00:22:07,880
bold declaration that he was 
cozying up to President Trump. 

410
00:22:07,880 --> 00:22:11,000
And obviously this has paid out 
dividends in the support of 

411
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:15,280
NVIDIA and allowing, you know, 
not letting the export controls 

412
00:22:15,280 --> 00:22:18,200
on the chips and sales to China 
go through because, you know, 

413
00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:20,920
they're best buds, so. 
We're not we're not doing a Word

414
00:22:20,920 --> 00:22:22,440
of the Year. 
But if there was one, it might 

415
00:22:22,440 --> 00:22:26,400
be sycophants. 
And no quote embodied this, I 

416
00:22:26,400 --> 00:22:29,880
think, better than Jensen's 
sycophancy for Trump. 

417
00:22:29,880 --> 00:22:33,200
And he got what he wanted. 
Like you're saying what, what, 

418
00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:36,080
what is the main thing NVIDIA 
wanted? 

419
00:22:36,080 --> 00:22:38,840
It's to be able to sell these 
fucking chips to China and make 

420
00:22:39,120 --> 00:22:41,760
oodles of money. 
And Trump came through. 

421
00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:47,200
So for shareholders, Jensen did 
what he needed to do, I mean. 

422
00:22:47,320 --> 00:22:51,480
In a moment of intense political
cronyism, sucking up to the 

423
00:22:51,480 --> 00:22:54,400
president has worked for all 
these guys. 

424
00:22:54,400 --> 00:22:56,960
So why not do it? 
You know it's a good business 

425
00:22:56,960 --> 00:23:00,160
strategy if and if your your 
whole goal is to help the 

426
00:23:00,160 --> 00:23:03,680
shareholders, you're doing it. 
Yeah, I think Jensen probably 

427
00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:07,800
sets the mark for the most out, 
you know, got the most out of 

428
00:23:07,800 --> 00:23:11,920
being an ass sniffer to Trump. 
Like he got the thing that he 

429
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:13,600
wanted, which was chip sales to 
China. 

430
00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:16,040
That's a lot more clear to me 
than like regulation, which 

431
00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:19,400
probably could have happened 
without debasing yourself to to 

432
00:23:19,400 --> 00:23:21,040
the president. 
But like Jensen wanted this 

433
00:23:21,040 --> 00:23:21,840
thing. 
He got it. 

434
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:23,960
The stock benefits from it. 
Good on. 

435
00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:27,360
Good on you, Jensen. 
It's obviously terrible and I 

436
00:23:27,400 --> 00:23:30,320
don't know the Democrats and 
next administration is either we

437
00:23:30,320 --> 00:23:34,200
need some sort of law that 
prevents CE OS from doing this 

438
00:23:34,200 --> 00:23:36,480
or. 
From what kissing ass? 

439
00:23:37,840 --> 00:23:39,360
It's just like what's? 
The name of the game. 

440
00:23:39,560 --> 00:23:43,440
Clearly we can't stop the 
presidency from from wielding 

441
00:23:43,440 --> 00:23:45,120
this. 
What we need is somebody like 

442
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,400
Jensen to feel like, uh oh. 
Like, you know, if a Democrats 

443
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:50,440
back in charge, I could 
literally get arrested for this 

444
00:23:50,440 --> 00:23:53,720
type of behavior. 
But I don't know, it's not good,

445
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,880
and we need to figure out how to
avoid it when this terrible 

446
00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,000
clown show finally comes to an 
end. 

447
00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:03,120
Yeah, I mean on the chips ban 
thing though, it was so poorly 

448
00:24:03,120 --> 00:24:06,200
implemented. 
The cronyism needs to stop and 

449
00:24:06,200 --> 00:24:08,520
needs to be illegal. 
Hypocrisy. 

450
00:24:08,840 --> 00:24:12,960
Yeah, and there needs to be 
social and legal consequences to

451
00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,040
it. 
Obviously people should only be 

452
00:24:15,040 --> 00:24:16,720
punished for actual laws they're
breaking. 

453
00:24:16,720 --> 00:24:20,120
I'm not saying we should just 
make up laws post hoc and punish

454
00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,840
people, but it's deeply 
troubling. 

455
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:27,920
Quote 8 for 2025. 
I left this tour with a distinct

456
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:31,000
feeling that AI raises some of 
the same fundamental questions 

457
00:24:31,000 --> 00:24:33,440
that nukes did. 
How should they be used? 

458
00:24:33,440 --> 00:24:35,040
By whom? 
Under what rules? 

459
00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:37,840
Only this time we are creating a
technology that can become 

460
00:24:37,840 --> 00:24:39,720
smarter than humans who are 
designing it. 

461
00:24:40,760 --> 00:24:45,240
That is Senator Alyssa Slotkin 
speaking to the Council of 

462
00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:47,600
Foreign Relations in New York, 
September 5th. 

463
00:24:48,760 --> 00:24:49,800
What's up with that one, 
Madeleine? 

464
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,640
I I This was a kind of an 
eyebrow raiser. 

465
00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:56,200
Yeah, so I thought that, you 
know, a sitting US senator 

466
00:24:56,400 --> 00:25:01,440
bringing comparing AI to nuclear
power was a pretty, you know, 

467
00:25:01,520 --> 00:25:05,240
bold statement, in part because 
I feel like all of the AICEOS 

468
00:25:05,240 --> 00:25:07,880
who are boosting their product 
and proliferating it on all of 

469
00:25:07,880 --> 00:25:11,560
us always make this comparison. 
So to have, you know, a sitting 

470
00:25:11,560 --> 00:25:14,920
US senator give this speech 
towards the Council of Foreign 

471
00:25:14,920 --> 00:25:18,240
Relations saying, Oh, yes, it's 
just as important as nukes when 

472
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,600
you take it this seriously, 
that's, yes, it's a serious 

473
00:25:21,600 --> 00:25:23,480
issue. 
But also, it shows that the tech

474
00:25:23,480 --> 00:25:26,640
industry's narrative is, you 
know, taken in by the US Senate.

475
00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:30,440
I I do think Chachi BT flagged 
this one to me and I flagged it 

476
00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:32,840
to Madeline. 
So AI, AI is influencing. 

477
00:25:33,120 --> 00:25:34,640
AI says it's. 
Important here. 

478
00:25:34,840 --> 00:25:39,000
What's, what's interesting to me
in some ways is that, you know, 

479
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:44,640
2025 we've seen much less of the
like AI supremacy AGI 

480
00:25:44,640 --> 00:25:47,120
conversation. 
Like I think last year we would 

481
00:25:47,120 --> 00:25:48,520
have been talking about that 
much more. 

482
00:25:48,520 --> 00:25:52,000
But, you know, I, I think we've 
maybe overcorrected and I think 

483
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:55,640
she's right that, you know, AI 
has these huge existential 

484
00:25:55,640 --> 00:25:58,840
issues and a key part of it is 
that it keeps getting smarter 

485
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:02,960
and is an intelligent being. 
I think we have another one that

486
00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:06,280
sort of speaks to that. 
Yeah, I think the regulation of 

487
00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:09,280
AI is important to talk about. 
I think discussing a technology 

488
00:26:09,280 --> 00:26:11,800
that's getting smarter by leaps 
and bounds and it's going to 

489
00:26:11,800 --> 00:26:15,360
replace humanity because of its 
incredible intelligence is just 

490
00:26:15,360 --> 00:26:18,400
not accurate to the way this 
technology has progressed over 

491
00:26:18,400 --> 00:26:19,760
the last couple of years. 
I think it's gotten 

492
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:23,160
incrementally more efficient and
maybe more utility. 

493
00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:26,360
But to talk about this thing as 
like this incredible growing 

494
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:28,920
force that we can't control 
plays into the marketing angle 

495
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:30,600
of AI. 
There's a difference between the

496
00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,200
complete, you know, anti AI 
stance. 

497
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,280
This is all useless. 
It provides nothing and the 

498
00:26:35,280 --> 00:26:37,040
like. 
We have created the next Skynet.

499
00:26:37,440 --> 00:26:42,040
And I do worry sometimes the 
amount of discussion that gets 

500
00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:45,040
committed to like what do we do 
to prevent Skynet completely 

501
00:26:45,040 --> 00:26:48,040
overrates the progress this 
technology has had in the cut in

502
00:26:48,040 --> 00:26:50,760
the in the past couple of years.
And I'm down to have these 

503
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:52,640
discussions. 
But let's base it in the reality

504
00:26:52,640 --> 00:26:54,480
of what it can do and what it 
can't do. 

505
00:26:54,480 --> 00:26:57,320
And what it can't do is actually
think and do anything close to 

506
00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:01,200
what we think a true or like an 
intelligence could could do so. 

507
00:27:01,760 --> 00:27:05,600
I'm, I'm closer to the, I'm not.
I mean, I, I think AI is not 

508
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,120
positive, but it's certain. 
I think it's more capable than 

509
00:27:08,120 --> 00:27:12,960
you're describing. 
Newcomers quote #9 for 2025. 

510
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:16,560
Everything I do is recommended 
by ChatGPT and then I check with

511
00:27:16,560 --> 00:27:18,960
my doctors for safety. 
I always ask them if they 

512
00:27:18,960 --> 00:27:20,840
disagree and if they disagree 
with ChatGPT. 

513
00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,400
I ask another doctor, Jesus that
is Vinod Khosla, on how much he 

514
00:27:26,400 --> 00:27:29,440
uses AI for personal health 
decisions at the Deus Ex 

515
00:27:29,440 --> 00:27:33,000
Medicina Summit. 
Another newcomer hosted Co 

516
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,280
hosted event. 
This was in September. 

517
00:27:35,440 --> 00:27:39,880
Yeah, I felt like, you know, 
Vinod was landed on thick there 

518
00:27:39,880 --> 00:27:43,320
for how much he's using Chachi 
PT for health benefit. 

519
00:27:43,680 --> 00:27:46,320
And that was, of course, the 
theme of the conference that 

520
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:48,600
day. 
But, you know, early investor in

521
00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:50,280
open AI, he's talking about open
AI. 

522
00:27:50,680 --> 00:27:54,200
It also has become a massive use
case for open AI for people to 

523
00:27:54,200 --> 00:27:55,480
check it for healthcare 
questions. 

524
00:27:55,520 --> 00:27:58,040
And these startups like Open 
Evidence that are going 

525
00:27:58,360 --> 00:28:01,040
gangbusters right now, raising 
tons and tons of new funding, 

526
00:28:01,480 --> 00:28:03,400
seem to be basically ChatGPT for
doctors. 

527
00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:06,920
So while I see the benefit of 
that, you know, it wades into 

528
00:28:06,920 --> 00:28:09,400
this whole question of how much 
should we be using AI for 

529
00:28:09,400 --> 00:28:11,280
healthcare? 
But that is clearly a use case 

530
00:28:11,280 --> 00:28:14,400
that has evolved this year. 
Yeah, I think doctors, we should

531
00:28:14,400 --> 00:28:16,320
have some on the show at some 
point. 

532
00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:18,960
I'm interested to see how it's 
changed their job, not in like 

533
00:28:18,960 --> 00:28:20,920
in how they diagnose patients, 
but. 

534
00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:22,960
How they other good doctor 
friends we can have on. 

535
00:28:23,520 --> 00:28:25,640
Yeah, like how they deal with 
like questions from from 

536
00:28:25,640 --> 00:28:28,760
patients, you know, 'cause like,
I'm sure like the advent of Web 

537
00:28:28,760 --> 00:28:33,400
MD, which is, you know, like the
hackiest joke from the late 90s 

538
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,480
of like, I went on the Internet 
and found I had cancer kind of 

539
00:28:36,480 --> 00:28:38,040
thing. 
But I bet that did really change

540
00:28:38,040 --> 00:28:42,040
the medical profession in how 
you interact with patients, and 

541
00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,720
this has probably only 
accelerated it. 

542
00:28:43,840 --> 00:28:46,560
Well, I think patients come at 
the doctor's appointment being 

543
00:28:46,560 --> 00:28:49,160
like, I put my symptoms in a 
chachi PT and it said this, 

544
00:28:49,160 --> 00:28:51,120
this, this. 
So I think I have this and the 

545
00:28:51,120 --> 00:28:53,440
doctor has to, you know, respond
in some way. 

546
00:28:53,440 --> 00:28:55,720
But maybe the doctor's also 
using chachi PT to check the 

547
00:28:55,720 --> 00:28:59,680
symptoms as well. 
So it's an interesting chachi PT

548
00:28:59,680 --> 00:29:02,520
to chachi PT happening in the 
exam room. 

549
00:29:02,840 --> 00:29:06,840
The yeah, I mean, it's a first. 
Having a baby. 

550
00:29:06,880 --> 00:29:10,200
ChatGPT is the first line of 
defence in Is this medical thing

551
00:29:10,200 --> 00:29:14,920
normal or not? 
There's a brief second where we 

552
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:19,120
were worried that open AI was 
going to crack down on health 

553
00:29:19,120 --> 00:29:22,400
stuff, but I think it was a sort
of false rumor. 

554
00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,160
And yeah, like you said, I think
it's the use case they're really

555
00:29:25,560 --> 00:29:28,440
leaning into. 
I have problems with the AI 

556
00:29:28,440 --> 00:29:34,920
industry talking about ChatGPT 
diagnostics as a revolution, as 

557
00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,160
something that's going to truly 
change the way people receive 

558
00:29:38,160 --> 00:29:41,360
medical care. 
I think it's such a poor 

559
00:29:41,360 --> 00:29:46,360
comparison a a poor stand in for
actual medical care and like a a

560
00:29:46,360 --> 00:29:48,240
professional. 
I know they do talk about this a

561
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:51,600
lot, but like we have major 
issues with the way people 

562
00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,080
receive medical treatment in 
this country and access to 

563
00:29:54,080 --> 00:29:58,920
healthcare and open AI and 
ChatGPT is it's like a drop in 

564
00:29:58,920 --> 00:30:02,160
the bucket of improvement 
report. 

565
00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:04,240
What actually needs to happen to
give people better quality of 

566
00:30:04,240 --> 00:30:05,240
life. 
So I. 

567
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:07,000
Well, a lot of what we need is 
humanity. 

568
00:30:07,040 --> 00:30:10,560
I mean, you know, you go to a 
hospital, you know, obviously my

569
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:15,080
wife gave birth this year and 
nurse to nurse performances 

570
00:30:15,280 --> 00:30:19,920
feels much more about bedside 
manner than medical knowledge. 

571
00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,680
And in some ways, I hope Chachi 
Petiti sort of makes that even 

572
00:30:23,680 --> 00:30:26,320
clearer. 
It's like, OK, if we have easy 

573
00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,480
to access resources for the 
actual medical knowledge, then 

574
00:30:30,480 --> 00:30:34,960
we're picking and elevating 
people based on, you know, their

575
00:30:34,960 --> 00:30:39,120
bedside manner more and more 
than necessarily how much they 

576
00:30:39,120 --> 00:30:41,200
can retain medical. 
Knowledge. 

577
00:30:41,840 --> 00:30:47,600
I'm interested in in how AIS 
will change people's approach to

578
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:50,960
bedside manner and if it's going
to cause people to become more 

579
00:30:50,960 --> 00:30:55,840
argumentative with their nurses 
and doctors because these AIS 

580
00:30:55,920 --> 00:31:00,520
are trained to please you and to
back up your questions, confirm,

581
00:31:00,560 --> 00:31:03,040
like confirm your suspicions on 
things. 

582
00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:05,040
And so if a nurse or a doctor is
telling you one thing and you 

583
00:31:05,040 --> 00:31:07,400
put it into ChatGPT and it's 
like, no, you're right. 

584
00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:09,960
You know, don't trust the 
medical professional industry. 

585
00:31:11,520 --> 00:31:14,840
You know, you should be willing 
to question professionals when 

586
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:17,480
it comes to your health, but it 
sounds like it's just going to 

587
00:31:17,480 --> 00:31:21,040
create more antagonism between 
people and their and their 

588
00:31:21,040 --> 00:31:22,960
doctors. 
But doctor, doctors, I think are

589
00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,480
embracing it more, more than you
seem to think. 

590
00:31:25,480 --> 00:31:26,760
Like I, I don't know. 
We'll see. 

591
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:29,160
We should do an episode on that 
quote #10. 

592
00:31:29,360 --> 00:31:31,400
If you were thirteen years old, 
you should spend all your time 

593
00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:32,960
vibe coding. 
That's you should live your 

594
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:36,760
life. 
That's Alexander Wong on TVPN in

595
00:31:36,760 --> 00:31:39,720
September. 
Obviously he sold his company 

596
00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,120
scale this year to refer a 
bazillion dollars or. 

597
00:31:43,120 --> 00:31:46,920
Yeah, obviously he, he was 
around, you know, a $13 billion 

598
00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:48,400
exit right there, so good for 
him. 

599
00:31:48,400 --> 00:31:52,760
But yeah, well, I picked this 
quote in part because 1 vibe 

600
00:31:52,760 --> 00:31:54,920
coding obviously took off quite 
a bit this year. 

601
00:31:54,920 --> 00:31:58,920
We've all tinkered with Lovable 
and Cursor and the various vibe 

602
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:02,120
coding tools on this show and, 
and the newsletter. 

603
00:32:02,480 --> 00:32:06,600
And also I think it's very funny
to hear Alexander Wang's 

604
00:32:06,720 --> 00:32:09,760
dictating how 13 year olds will 
live their life in the future 

605
00:32:09,760 --> 00:32:11,560
from now on. 
I think there's a good Silicon 

606
00:32:11,560 --> 00:32:14,160
Valley culture of like, you 
know, we got to tell the youth 

607
00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:16,840
how they're going to change 
their entire education always. 

608
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,920
And now it's vibe coding so. 
Is he a college dropout? 

609
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:23,360
He has that college dropout 
profile. 

610
00:32:23,400 --> 00:32:25,200
Right. 
I think, I don't know if he's a 

611
00:32:25,200 --> 00:32:26,720
college dropout. 
I think he might have graduated 

612
00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:29,560
from college when he was 19. 
I think he's some sort. 

613
00:32:29,720 --> 00:32:31,040
Of he was a. 
Prodigy. 

614
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:32,720
Prodigy. 
Yeah, I think he's a prodigy. 

615
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,320
He's a math. 
He was a math prodigy. 

616
00:32:36,160 --> 00:32:39,440
So yeah, I think what he did at 
13 is not going to be what 

617
00:32:39,440 --> 00:32:43,000
everyone does. 
Not your typical 13 year old. 

618
00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:46,920
He did drop out. 
MIT looks like. 

619
00:32:47,080 --> 00:32:50,280
Yes, he hasn't. 
LinkedIn grade 5 point O 

620
00:32:50,520 --> 00:32:54,240
dropout. 
Yeah, the dream. 

621
00:32:54,240 --> 00:32:56,840
The dream. 
So kind of a resume right there,

622
00:32:56,840 --> 00:33:01,600
yeah. 
I think vibe coding is TBD as to

623
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:03,760
its actual effectiveness. 
There have been a lot of 

624
00:33:03,760 --> 00:33:07,680
interesting trend pieces about 
the vibe coding scene in San 

625
00:33:07,680 --> 00:33:10,680
Francisco, specifically in the 
whole startup culture built 

626
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,000
around people that have no real 
technical skills but have 

627
00:33:13,240 --> 00:33:15,200
created their app entirely 
through vibe coding. 

628
00:33:16,200 --> 00:33:18,720
I guess I defer to you guys a 
little, but like I don't know 

629
00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,240
what's the last significant 
startup that has raised money 

630
00:33:22,240 --> 00:33:24,240
that was built on top of vibe 
Coded app? 

631
00:33:24,760 --> 00:33:28,520
I don't think there have been 
any of they all seem kind of 

632
00:33:28,520 --> 00:33:33,720
lame and I had fun vibe coding 
something that I used this year 

633
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:36,720
like it's a oh, I built a this 
people that make fun of me about

634
00:33:36,720 --> 00:33:39,080
this. 
I, when I go to the gym, I 

635
00:33:39,080 --> 00:33:42,000
always forget what locker I put 
my shit into. 

636
00:33:42,720 --> 00:33:47,080
And so I, I built an app through
Chachi PT that it, it kind of 

637
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:50,760
like used object like OCR to 
recognize the number. 

638
00:33:50,760 --> 00:33:52,720
So I would like hold it up to 
the number of the locker and it 

639
00:33:52,720 --> 00:33:54,880
would store the number. 
And so then at the end of my 

640
00:33:54,880 --> 00:33:56,680
workout, I would look at it and 
it would have the number in 

641
00:33:56,680 --> 00:33:58,080
there. 
The obvious answer to This is 

642
00:33:58,080 --> 00:33:59,800
why can't you just take a 
picture with your phone and look

643
00:33:59,800 --> 00:34:01,760
at that? 
I was going to say I love the 

644
00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,440
Notes app. 
That's a great app that also 

645
00:34:04,440 --> 00:34:05,680
exists. 
You can write it down. 

646
00:34:05,680 --> 00:34:07,680
You have to write it down. 
I wanted an app that I could 

647
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:09,760
just hold it up to the number 
and look. 

648
00:34:09,760 --> 00:34:11,719
I wanted a vibe, code, something
and that was the idea. 

649
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,840
And you want a purpose. 
It's nice to have a purpose 

650
00:34:13,840 --> 00:34:18,040
built app, you know. 
Yeah, I also learned that when 

651
00:34:18,040 --> 00:34:21,840
you vibe code something, it only
lasts on your phone for 30 days 

652
00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:26,679
through through test pilot the 
the iPhone kind of beta testing 

653
00:34:26,679 --> 00:34:29,159
service. 
So it's it's now gone. 

654
00:34:29,159 --> 00:34:32,239
Locker buddy is is not a usable 
app. 

655
00:34:33,639 --> 00:34:36,320
RIP but. 
Yeah, I think I can somehow re 

656
00:34:36,320 --> 00:34:40,560
upload it there, but I, I am 
actually pretty skeptical of 

657
00:34:40,560 --> 00:34:42,520
vibe coding as something with 
real utility. 

658
00:34:42,520 --> 00:34:45,560
The fact that you can do it 
doesn't mean it has that much 

659
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:48,440
value. 
And so beyond just like little 

660
00:34:48,440 --> 00:34:50,880
home projects like what I did, I
don't really know. 

661
00:34:50,880 --> 00:34:54,320
This is quite the revolution 
that a lot of people are are 

662
00:34:54,520 --> 00:34:57,080
wanting it to be. 
Tom, do you still think we 

663
00:34:57,120 --> 00:35:00,320
should all learn how to code? 
All of us. 

664
00:35:02,040 --> 00:35:03,800
Well, you know, they're saying 
you don't ever have to learn how

665
00:35:03,800 --> 00:35:05,920
to code anymore. 
And the the refrain was always 

666
00:35:05,920 --> 00:35:08,840
learn to code, learn to code. 
But now we have vibe coding. 

667
00:35:08,920 --> 00:35:12,760
The fact that we can code now in
plain language, in plain 

668
00:35:12,760 --> 00:35:15,280
English, and that, you know, 
obviously there are limitations,

669
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:16,560
but it's getting better and 
better. 

670
00:35:16,880 --> 00:35:20,360
The fact that people who are 
themselves genius coders and 

671
00:35:20,360 --> 00:35:23,680
math geniuses think that you 
should just learn to code in 

672
00:35:23,680 --> 00:35:26,280
English, like that's hugely 
significant. 

673
00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:28,480
You know, I like raising my 
daughter. 

674
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,240
It's like, OK, I'm spending a 
lot of time right now trying to 

675
00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,200
Babble with her, eventually 
teach her English. 

676
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:36,880
You skip the step where you have
to go learn some code based 

677
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:38,360
language to interact with 
computers. 

678
00:35:38,360 --> 00:35:41,480
You can just use the English you
learned, and all of a sudden, 

679
00:35:42,160 --> 00:35:45,400
you know, the humanities majors 
among us are going to be 

680
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:48,800
empowered to build whatever we 
want on the Internet. 

681
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:52,240
And that's validated by the math
geeks this year. 

682
00:35:52,240 --> 00:35:54,360
Like, that's huge. 
I think it's landmark. 

683
00:35:54,360 --> 00:35:56,120
I think we're way 
underestimating how much it's 

684
00:35:56,120 --> 00:35:59,320
going to be a boon to the word 
cells among us. 

685
00:35:59,520 --> 00:36:02,600
I believe that. 
You know you did it. 

686
00:36:02,840 --> 00:36:05,640
You built the app. 
But what value did it truly add?

687
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:08,120
It was a fun little project. 
It's like I think everyone 

688
00:36:08,120 --> 00:36:09,280
should learn how to like build 
your. 

689
00:36:09,360 --> 00:36:10,960
Own airplanes. 
You didn't have enough ambition.

690
00:36:10,960 --> 00:36:13,520
It was sort of a silly little 
project, but like, yeah. 

691
00:36:13,560 --> 00:36:16,880
Well, I don't know if like vibe 
coding allows you to like have 

692
00:36:16,880 --> 00:36:18,480
much more ambition than what I 
did. 

693
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:21,000
Right. 
But we're near like one or two 

694
00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,200
of vibe coding. 
We're in the beginning. 

695
00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,160
Like, this is where tech people 
dominate the rest of us. 

696
00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,320
You see like, oh, it's it's just
OK. 

697
00:36:29,320 --> 00:36:31,840
It's like, yeah, because there's
a rate of growth because they're

698
00:36:32,040 --> 00:36:35,280
they're just starting. 
Like we're just this is just 

699
00:36:35,280 --> 00:36:37,240
happening. 
This is all so fresh. 

700
00:36:37,440 --> 00:36:38,880
But what are what are you going 
to really build? 

701
00:36:38,880 --> 00:36:40,880
What what would you do? 
You have the ability to vibe 

702
00:36:40,880 --> 00:36:42,720
code right now? 
Like, what could you build in 

703
00:36:42,720 --> 00:36:45,080
your life that would change it 
in a way that you're like, Oh my

704
00:36:45,080 --> 00:36:48,120
God, everyone fucking needs to. 
Vibe code things around the 

705
00:36:48,120 --> 00:36:50,200
newcomer business that I would 
like to build. 

706
00:36:50,200 --> 00:36:52,960
We are literally talking to some
of the vibe coding companies 

707
00:36:52,960 --> 00:36:56,200
about trying to build stuff. 
But why wouldn't you just hire a

708
00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:57,840
developer to build something for
you? 

709
00:36:57,840 --> 00:37:00,000
Well, somebody like us, we're 
not gonna hire a necessarily a 

710
00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:01,840
great developer. 
It's not our expertise. 

711
00:37:01,840 --> 00:37:05,080
I don't know how to manage a 
developer, you know, And some of

712
00:37:05,080 --> 00:37:07,920
the things we want, you know, 
it's like the beauty of vibe 

713
00:37:07,920 --> 00:37:09,960
coding, right? 
And This is why we had, you 

714
00:37:09,960 --> 00:37:14,360
know, Dylan Field at Figma on 
stage at one of our Cerebral 

715
00:37:14,360 --> 00:37:18,800
Valley events in London. 
You know, it's just like you get

716
00:37:18,800 --> 00:37:22,880
to think when when you write a 
piece, you think about the ideas

717
00:37:22,880 --> 00:37:24,240
and it makes your writing 
better, right? 

718
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:27,360
When you're coding the thing, 
you're building the thing and 

719
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:30,400
you start to understand what 
goes into it, what trade-offs 

720
00:37:30,400 --> 00:37:33,280
have to be made. 
And so I think giving the person

721
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:37,320
with the idea for the product, 
the ability to do the actual 

722
00:37:37,320 --> 00:37:40,280
thing without having to know how
to code just allows you to sort 

723
00:37:40,280 --> 00:37:43,040
of think through it and it, 
yeah, it just empowers. 

724
00:37:43,040 --> 00:37:45,600
That you can ultimately tell a 
developer what you want when you

725
00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,840
want, like an actual functional.
High quality it's best for like 

726
00:37:48,840 --> 00:37:51,520
prototyping right now. 
I I agree, but like, yeah, I 

727
00:37:51,520 --> 00:37:53,400
think it's the trend it's. 
The worst it's ever gonna be. 

728
00:37:53,400 --> 00:37:55,160
I do think that's true to your. 
Point. 

729
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,160
Yep. 
Yeah, Yeah. 

730
00:37:57,240 --> 00:37:58,680
I also think. 
I'll hang up on you on this one,

731
00:37:58,680 --> 00:37:59,760
Tom. 
I think it's pretty big. 

732
00:38:01,800 --> 00:38:03,760
Let's circle back to this one at
the end of 26. 

733
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:05,320
We'll see where that coding is 
going. 

734
00:38:05,320 --> 00:38:07,160
Sounds good. 
I'm I'm betting the under. 

735
00:38:07,480 --> 00:38:10,320
All right, Quote 11. 
But make no mistake, what we are

736
00:38:10,320 --> 00:38:13,000
dealing with is a real and 
mysterious creature, not a 

737
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:16,520
simple and predictable machine. 
This is Jack Clark on the 

738
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:18,920
significance of artificial 
intelligence development during 

739
00:38:18,920 --> 00:38:20,920
a speech at the Curve conference
in Berkeley. 

740
00:38:20,920 --> 00:38:24,360
And that was in October Your 
your former colleague at. 

741
00:38:24,360 --> 00:38:27,680
Bloomberg Anthropic Co founder 
and my former colleague like 

742
00:38:27,680 --> 00:38:30,320
Jack. 
Jack and I have hung out, and he

743
00:38:30,320 --> 00:38:31,360
is. 
We used to go biking. 

744
00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,240
Together tremendously. 
We biked on. 

745
00:38:33,240 --> 00:38:35,840
I went to like a punk. 
Rock Backyard show with him? 

746
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:36,360
Yeah. 
Wait, no. 

747
00:38:36,720 --> 00:38:38,120
Way. 
I didn't know this, yeah. 

748
00:38:38,840 --> 00:38:43,480
You just to hang guy. 
He covered Google the most normy

749
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,040
beat. 
It was a little too wonky. 

750
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:47,800
It was like, Jack, this is 
Bloomberg. 

751
00:38:47,800 --> 00:38:49,840
Like, worry about money, less 
about tech. 

752
00:38:49,840 --> 00:38:51,280
And you like, really love 
technology. 

753
00:38:51,280 --> 00:38:55,120
And then he goes off to open AI 
and, yeah, he turns out you make

754
00:38:55,120 --> 00:38:58,360
a lot more money in Silicon 
Valley thinking about tech than 

755
00:38:58,360 --> 00:38:59,720
thinking about money. 
So. 

756
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:03,040
I remember when he quit 
Bloomberg to go to open AI and 

757
00:39:03,040 --> 00:39:04,640
we were all like, well that's 
stupid. 

758
00:39:04,960 --> 00:39:07,520
Why would you leave a great job 
like Bloomberg which you ended 

759
00:39:07,520 --> 00:39:11,360
up doing? 
Yeah, I I didn't think it was 

760
00:39:11,360 --> 00:39:13,320
stupid. 
I just, you know, it was in the 

761
00:39:13,320 --> 00:39:16,360
reporter kool-aid cult that you 
spend your life. 

762
00:39:16,360 --> 00:39:17,800
You know, it's very hard to get 
into reporting. 

763
00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,040
It's hard to give it up. 
But kudos to Jack and Jack, you 

764
00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:23,200
know, runs a very success. 
He writes a very successful 

765
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:28,280
newsletter import AI. 
So somehow he's able to Co found

766
00:39:28,280 --> 00:39:32,920
anthropic and do the newsletter 
hustle and be a top thinker on 

767
00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,000
AI policy. 
Anyway, Madeline, we've talked 

768
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:37,080
about Jack, but what what do you
what stood out to you about the 

769
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:38,640
quote itself? 
Right. 

770
00:39:38,640 --> 00:39:42,800
Well, I felt like 1, he was 
fully anthropomorphizing the AI,

771
00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:45,840
which in this episode alone 
we've debated if that's legit or

772
00:39:45,840 --> 00:39:47,600
not. 
And it also felt really 

773
00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:50,320
representative of the anthropic 
take. 

774
00:39:50,480 --> 00:39:52,600
You know what I mean? 
Like every, all of the 

775
00:39:52,600 --> 00:39:55,360
foundation model companies have 
sort of their stance on how much

776
00:39:55,360 --> 00:39:59,240
we should regulate this or not 
regulate this or limit the 

777
00:39:59,240 --> 00:40:02,200
contents of the speech or be 
concerned if it's spewing 

778
00:40:02,200 --> 00:40:05,640
dangerous ideas or what the 
power of the great machine is. 

779
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,360
And yes, AGI fears have fallen 
somewhat. 

780
00:40:08,440 --> 00:40:11,560
Out of the conversation, but 
Anthropic is still doing it and 

781
00:40:11,560 --> 00:40:13,240
they're still very concerned 
about safety. 

782
00:40:13,240 --> 00:40:17,760
So they're that was sort of the 
signpost of Anthropic posture. 

783
00:40:17,760 --> 00:40:20,640
I felt like as a quote that we 
should put in the list. 

784
00:40:21,040 --> 00:40:23,800
Yeah, I feel like it fits in 
with the Slotkin point of view, 

785
00:40:23,800 --> 00:40:28,040
which is, yes, 2025 is the year 
where Dumerisms out of favor and

786
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:32,560
Tom's view is ascendant. 
But there are still holdouts who

787
00:40:32,560 --> 00:40:36,680
think this this is a thing 
heading to general intelligence.

788
00:40:36,680 --> 00:40:38,840
It is a real and mysterious 
creature. 

789
00:40:39,320 --> 00:40:44,600
I I sort of agree with Jack. 
I what I actually take away from

790
00:40:44,600 --> 00:40:47,280
this is less like we I've 
already started my piece about, 

791
00:40:47,640 --> 00:40:48,920
you know, the 
anthropomorphization of 

792
00:40:48,920 --> 00:40:50,680
technology. 
I am really interested in like 

793
00:40:50,680 --> 00:40:54,800
the separation of Anthropic from
the rest of the AI field right 

794
00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:59,800
now, just as a like kudos to 
Dario for he's just a very 

795
00:40:59,800 --> 00:41:02,760
earnest guy. 
Like he is stuck by his guns as 

796
00:41:02,760 --> 00:41:05,880
I'm very worried about AII want 
to talk about regulation. 

797
00:41:06,440 --> 00:41:10,400
He has been caught in the 
crosshairs with with David Sachs

798
00:41:10,680 --> 00:41:13,600
and the Trump administration. 
He he truly does not like Trump,

799
00:41:13,920 --> 00:41:17,800
which, you know, causes him 
potential business concerns. 

800
00:41:18,520 --> 00:41:21,960
And I think, you know, going out
of this year, Anthropic looks 

801
00:41:21,960 --> 00:41:25,760
like the better bet as a company
right now just in terms of its 

802
00:41:25,760 --> 00:41:28,320
financial stability. 
It's aim is very true. 

803
00:41:28,320 --> 00:41:30,720
It's not trying to do a, you 
know, a million different things

804
00:41:31,120 --> 00:41:35,280
and, you know, a lot can change.
I saw Elon, you know, shitting 

805
00:41:35,280 --> 00:41:37,760
on Anthropic at some point 
during the year saying like 

806
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,960
Anthropic winning was never in 
the cards or something like 

807
00:41:40,960 --> 00:41:44,240
that. 
And they might go public next 

808
00:41:44,240 --> 00:41:45,720
year, which is by no means 
success. 

809
00:41:45,840 --> 00:41:47,200
You know, that's not like an end
point. 

810
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,320
It's not like you've reached the
end of your journey and you've 

811
00:41:49,320 --> 00:41:51,200
won. 
But like, they're building 

812
00:41:51,200 --> 00:41:54,080
something that feels a lot more 
reasonable right now. 

813
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,320
Well, it's also funny Elon 
saying that when he's running, 

814
00:41:56,320 --> 00:41:59,360
you know, XAI as well as if he's
just, you know, commenting on 

815
00:41:59,360 --> 00:42:01,640
this like he doesn't have a 
direct competitor stake. 

816
00:42:01,920 --> 00:42:04,960
Yeah, we live in the world where
you pick your philosopher king, 

817
00:42:04,960 --> 00:42:09,000
and I think everybody on this 
podcast would prefer Dario to 

818
00:42:09,360 --> 00:42:12,440
Elon Musk and Sam Ullman, so. 
Plus, we all agree that Claude 

819
00:42:12,440 --> 00:42:14,800
is the better writing partner, I
have to say. 

820
00:42:15,480 --> 00:42:17,480
Yes, you know, although it's. 
Starting to get a little sick of

821
00:42:17,480 --> 00:42:20,360
antics man. 
The man behind the philosopher 

822
00:42:20,360 --> 00:42:24,240
king. 
So all right quote #12. 

823
00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:26,520
Overall, the models are not 
there. 

824
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:29,240
I feel like the industry is 
making too big of a jump and is 

825
00:42:29,240 --> 00:42:31,600
trying to pretend like this is 
amazing and it's not. 

826
00:42:31,720 --> 00:42:35,160
It's slop. 
That is Andre Carpathy, my man, 

827
00:42:35,800 --> 00:42:38,440
during his interview on the Door
Cash podcast, and that is from 

828
00:42:38,440 --> 00:42:40,320
October. 
Yeah. 

829
00:42:40,320 --> 00:42:43,320
So I think you can tell it 
worked out quite well that these

830
00:42:43,320 --> 00:42:45,800
were chronologically next to 
each other because I did pair 

831
00:42:45,800 --> 00:42:48,960
these together if I was able to 
just throw them all on the page.

832
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:52,960
You know, we come from 
Anthropic, Oh my gosh, the 

833
00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:55,720
consequences of our actions. 
How will we live in the future 

834
00:42:55,720 --> 00:43:00,160
to where the models are right 
now is bad in a kind of that 

835
00:43:00,160 --> 00:43:02,800
kind of broke the Internet in 
tech world, at least when that 

836
00:43:02,800 --> 00:43:05,360
episode came out of having, you 
know, Andre Carpathy basically 

837
00:43:05,360 --> 00:43:09,160
say the quiet part out loud that
these models are great. 

838
00:43:09,160 --> 00:43:12,600
There's things that they can't 
do as well as we'd like and 

839
00:43:12,600 --> 00:43:14,080
they're not. 
Are they God kings? 

840
00:43:14,080 --> 00:43:15,880
At this point, No. 
Yeah, I mean, this was the 

841
00:43:15,880 --> 00:43:17,240
interview that shook Silicon 
Valley. 

842
00:43:17,240 --> 00:43:20,880
Everybody takes what Carpathy 
has to say extremely seriously. 

843
00:43:21,080 --> 00:43:25,360
He is both technically capable 
and speaks in plain English. 

844
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:30,040
And I, I don't think anybody is 
disagreeing with him directly. 

845
00:43:30,080 --> 00:43:33,320
You know, he's a little bit more
cautious, maybe Dario, but he's,

846
00:43:33,360 --> 00:43:37,240
you know, it was more sanguine 
about the rate of progress than 

847
00:43:37,480 --> 00:43:39,800
I think Silicon Valley had been 
up until that point. 

848
00:43:40,080 --> 00:43:42,440
Yeah, this is I think the first 
time we've mentioned it so far, 

849
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,640
but the the the word slop, which
was the actual word of the year,

850
00:43:45,800 --> 00:43:48,560
although I like your sycophancy 
as another choice or word of the

851
00:43:48,560 --> 00:43:51,520
year, Eric, I think slop is a 
fascinating concept. 

852
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,640
It gets misapplied a lot. 
People are just calling 

853
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,120
everything they don't like as 
slop, which is unfortunate 

854
00:43:57,120 --> 00:44:00,920
because I think it's a very 
specific thing, which is content

855
00:44:00,920 --> 00:44:04,680
that is unmoored to general 
taste or, or, or interest and it

856
00:44:04,680 --> 00:44:07,680
just sort of gets produced and, 
you know, thrown out into the 

857
00:44:07,680 --> 00:44:11,080
world. 
But AI will have to at some 

858
00:44:11,080 --> 00:44:13,320
point reckon the industry will 
have to reckon with the 

859
00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:17,560
prevalence of slop that has come
out of these tools. 

860
00:44:17,640 --> 00:44:21,400
I think Mehta's launch of Vibes 
personifies the slop. 

861
00:44:21,520 --> 00:44:24,240
Is that a fair statement? 
Like when Vibes came out when 

862
00:44:24,240 --> 00:44:29,600
they were rushing to meet Sora, 
that to me was the slop of 2025.

863
00:44:30,240 --> 00:44:34,680
Just a fully scrollable AI 
generated content app with no 

864
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,760
taste discernment, no rhyme or 
reason, just scrolling through 

865
00:44:37,760 --> 00:44:41,800
the endless feed. 
That to me more so than just, 

866
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,200
you know, slop being something I
don't like. 

867
00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:46,880
To your point, Tom, that was 
like the the definition of what 

868
00:44:46,920 --> 00:44:48,200
really we're we're talking 
about. 

869
00:44:48,200 --> 00:44:50,360
Here, Yeah. 
And is it a replacement for 

870
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:51,960
entertainment? 
Is it going to get, you know, 

871
00:44:51,960 --> 00:44:54,960
infused into, quote UN quote, 
mainstream entertainment? 

872
00:44:54,960 --> 00:44:57,040
Or will it exist as this 
parallel industry? 

873
00:44:57,360 --> 00:45:00,120
The idea of someone just tuning 
out and like, scrolling through 

874
00:45:00,120 --> 00:45:04,520
slop is very nihilistic to me. 
I I, I, and I'm not even saying 

875
00:45:04,520 --> 00:45:09,360
that like I believe AI can have 
many positive effects on 

876
00:45:09,360 --> 00:45:14,480
entertainment, but slop, if slop
feed even Sora, the idea that 

877
00:45:14,480 --> 00:45:17,120
someone could like go through 
Sora as a social media tool, not

878
00:45:17,120 --> 00:45:20,400
just a creation tool, but like 
just checking out other people's

879
00:45:20,400 --> 00:45:21,640
like create. 
That's weird. 

880
00:45:22,240 --> 00:45:24,960
That's really weird to me. 
I I don't love that idea. 

881
00:45:25,480 --> 00:45:29,600
Sycophancy and Slop 2025. 
All right. 

882
00:45:29,960 --> 00:45:33,080
Quote 13 for our top quotes in 
2025. 

883
00:45:33,240 --> 00:45:36,080
Having listened closely to my 
fellow San Franciscans and our 

884
00:45:36,080 --> 00:45:39,560
local officials, and after the 
largest and safest Dream Force 

885
00:45:39,560 --> 00:45:43,600
in our history, I do not believe
the National Guard is needed to 

886
00:45:43,640 --> 00:45:47,240
address safety in San Francisco.
My earlier comment came from an 

887
00:45:47,240 --> 00:45:50,880
abundance of caution around the 
event, and I sincerely apologize

888
00:45:50,880 --> 00:45:55,520
for the concern it caused. 
That was Marc Benioff on X after

889
00:45:55,520 --> 00:45:57,760
asking Trump to send the 
National Guard into San 

890
00:45:57,760 --> 00:46:01,240
Francisco ahead of Dreamforce. 
This is someone TomTom has 

891
00:46:01,240 --> 00:46:05,120
written a profile of Marc 
Benioff in which Benioff Sikhed 

892
00:46:05,320 --> 00:46:09,880
the Governor of California, 
Gavin Newsom and Yo-yo Ma on Tom

893
00:46:09,880 --> 00:46:13,760
to keep the profile beat. 
So I'm sure Tom will have lots 

894
00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:16,400
to say about Benioff. 
But Madeline, you wanna take a 

895
00:46:16,400 --> 00:46:18,480
first crack at why we picked 
this one? 

896
00:46:18,720 --> 00:46:23,080
Yes, so many will ask why did I 
not pick the send the National 

897
00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,960
Guard quote in and of itself 
fairpoint. 

898
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:30,000
However, I felt like the five 
day, like maybe not five days, 

899
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:35,280
but super quick apology to the 
mass backlash was such a like 

900
00:46:35,280 --> 00:46:39,800
tail between your legs moment 
and it really personified to me.

901
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:43,920
Also, as we've talked about, the
techs move to the right, how 

902
00:46:43,920 --> 00:46:47,200
quickly they'll easily swing 
back when they realize that it's

903
00:46:47,240 --> 00:46:50,000
not working for them. 
Yeah, No, it was, it was, it was

904
00:46:50,000 --> 00:46:54,080
astounding that he he did this, 
that he like he called for Marc 

905
00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:57,200
Benioff, you know, the good 
loyal Democrat, the one who was 

906
00:46:57,440 --> 00:47:01,000
to the left, a lot of Silicon 
Valley Democrats calling for 

907
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,760
like more taxes in San 
Francisco. 

908
00:47:04,160 --> 00:47:08,320
And then, you know, then he 
calls for the National Guard. 

909
00:47:08,320 --> 00:47:10,520
It just seemed totally, you 
know. 

910
00:47:11,040 --> 00:47:14,760
He called once for a boycott of 
Indiana because of its anti 

911
00:47:14,760 --> 00:47:17,880
abortion law. 
He threatened to pull their 

912
00:47:17,880 --> 00:47:21,680
employees in Indiana out of the 
state because he was so offended

913
00:47:21,680 --> 00:47:22,720
by a. 
Right. 

914
00:47:22,720 --> 00:47:25,080
He was like the moralizer in 
chief. 

915
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:28,640
I mean, he was, he embraced sort
of wokeism, right? 

916
00:47:28,640 --> 00:47:31,960
I mean, he was yeah, definitely 
pro like sort of the push to 

917
00:47:31,960 --> 00:47:37,240
DEI. 
I I mean, the business case is 

918
00:47:37,240 --> 00:47:42,080
just Salesforce is suffering and
could use a a boost. 

919
00:47:42,080 --> 00:47:44,560
And, you know, maybe he's like, 
I need some of this Trump 

920
00:47:44,920 --> 00:47:47,280
favoritism I hear so much about,
but I don't know. 

921
00:47:47,280 --> 00:47:50,280
Tom, get in Marc Benioff's head 
for a second here. 

922
00:47:50,480 --> 00:47:53,880
I mean, I think, I think I, I 
always used to use Benioff and 

923
00:47:54,320 --> 00:47:57,760
Ron Conway as examples of when 
tech people get involved in 

924
00:47:57,760 --> 00:48:00,440
politics and actually know what 
they're doing because they tend 

925
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:03,360
to win. 
You know, Benioff supported Prop

926
00:48:03,360 --> 00:48:05,760
C and it won. 
Whether or not that's been good 

927
00:48:05,760 --> 00:48:07,240
or enough for the city is a 
different conversation. 

928
00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:10,040
But he like, he backs winners. 
He knows when to get involved. 

929
00:48:10,040 --> 00:48:13,160
In stuff he claims. 
Yeah, yeah, on businesses, which

930
00:48:13,160 --> 00:48:15,720
was, you know, to help fund 
homelessness initiatives. 

931
00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,280
And he spends like he's a big 
philanthropist and all this 

932
00:48:18,280 --> 00:48:20,520
stuff. 
You know, Ron Conway essentially

933
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:23,280
picks the mayor in San Francisco
every every time there's an 

934
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:26,200
election. 
And you saw a split between them

935
00:48:26,200 --> 00:48:29,120
after this comment, after his 
like National Guard comments to 

936
00:48:29,480 --> 00:48:31,560
a point where Ron Conway, I 
don't think he's really buddies 

937
00:48:31,560 --> 00:48:33,440
with him anymore. 
And, and like, you know, stepped

938
00:48:33,440 --> 00:48:36,800
down from the board of of of one
of his foundations and. 

939
00:48:36,800 --> 00:48:39,800
Kudos to Ron Conway, the only 
tech guy with the backbone right

940
00:48:39,800 --> 00:48:42,880
now. 
Yeah, in San Francisco and and 

941
00:48:42,880 --> 00:48:46,960
Dario, I think. 
We can, Betty. 

942
00:48:46,960 --> 00:48:48,480
Office Newcomer's good list, you
know. 

943
00:48:48,520 --> 00:48:50,520
Yeah, we've got Ron. 
Nice list of bauddy list. 

944
00:48:50,520 --> 00:48:54,680
That would have been fun. 
Yeah, I think Benioff has got a 

945
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:58,960
lot of problems to deal with, 
you know, as a business right 

946
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:00,080
now. 
I mean when I think he's. 

947
00:49:00,080 --> 00:49:02,880
Just out of touch, like he 
didn't know like what's wrong 

948
00:49:02,880 --> 00:49:04,000
with him? 
Like I guess he. 

949
00:49:04,040 --> 00:49:06,240
Just seems to not be able to 
read the moment. 

950
00:49:06,240 --> 00:49:08,400
Or maybe he's reading it better 
than anyone else and things will

951
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,800
come back around. 
But I thought you saw between 

952
00:49:10,800 --> 00:49:16,160
the National Guard comments and 
then he, you know, went to a 

953
00:49:16,160 --> 00:49:18,840
Trump state dinner, which is 
fine, a White House dinner, like

954
00:49:18,840 --> 00:49:20,800
it's important for these guys to
to go there. 

955
00:49:20,800 --> 00:49:24,000
But he was like taking selfies 
with Pam Bondi on it and being 

956
00:49:24,000 --> 00:49:25,680
like, hey, the fun kids just 
showed up. 

957
00:49:25,680 --> 00:49:28,200
And it's like, no one likes Pam 
Bondi, dude. 

958
00:49:28,600 --> 00:49:31,160
Like, like, I don't even think 
Trump likes her right now, 

959
00:49:31,160 --> 00:49:31,920
right? 
Like. 

960
00:49:32,560 --> 00:49:34,560
The political instincts are way 
off right now. 

961
00:49:34,720 --> 00:49:37,800
The only thing that's more often
Benioff's political instincts is

962
00:49:37,800 --> 00:49:40,600
Salesforce's stock price. 
But. 

963
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:44,160
Benioff was was he on the 
podcast this year, by the way? 

964
00:49:44,160 --> 00:49:46,120
Our podcast. 
Yeah. 

965
00:49:46,200 --> 00:49:49,320
Well, things. 
And at the end of that podcast, 

966
00:49:49,320 --> 00:49:52,840
if you stuck around the end, I 
still saw him like Ron Conway, 

967
00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:53,920
where I was like, what's going 
on? 

968
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:55,080
Like you won't stand up to these
guys. 

969
00:49:55,080 --> 00:49:57,960
And there were early hints 
because I was like, you don't 

970
00:49:57,960 --> 00:49:59,160
have more of a backbone than 
this. 

971
00:49:59,160 --> 00:50:01,080
You've been such a loud, like 
Democrat. 

972
00:50:01,360 --> 00:50:03,680
And he was pretty cowardly. 
Like I was definitely 

973
00:50:03,680 --> 00:50:08,640
disappointed on on that episode.
But yeah, he's in a weird. 

974
00:50:09,400 --> 00:50:11,480
I think people lose touch at a 
certain point. 

975
00:50:11,480 --> 00:50:14,440
Even if you have a great feel 
for the, you know, the instincts

976
00:50:14,440 --> 00:50:17,120
and the politics, at some point 
you just, the, the, the scene 

977
00:50:17,120 --> 00:50:19,320
moves on without you and you 
start making these kinds of 

978
00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:21,440
mistakes. 
And Benioff had so many of them 

979
00:50:21,480 --> 00:50:24,800
this year. 
I think the general billionaire 

980
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:30,440
world and successful business 
world did not clock the shift 

981
00:50:30,720 --> 00:50:34,080
rapidly against Trump. 
That happened as quickly as it 

982
00:50:34,080 --> 00:50:35,480
has. 
And I think that they thought 

983
00:50:35,480 --> 00:50:37,480
that they maybe had a couple 
more years of this before the 

984
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:40,920
pendulum swung. 
But the economic fallout and 

985
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:43,640
people don't like the 
immigration crackdowns and 

986
00:50:43,680 --> 00:50:47,240
basically public opinion has 
shifted remarkably quickly away 

987
00:50:47,240 --> 00:50:49,040
from Trump in the last few 
months. 

988
00:50:49,040 --> 00:50:51,440
So I think a lot of people were 
caught a little off. 

989
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,560
Guard, We're going to get real 
fascism, and we haven't gotten 

990
00:50:54,560 --> 00:50:56,000
the memo yet. 
And these guys. 

991
00:50:57,040 --> 00:50:58,960
Yeah, that's what I'm saying. 
He might have better instincts 

992
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:02,480
than all of us. 
All right quote #14 for 2025 A. 

993
00:51:02,880 --> 00:51:05,280
Rejection of any kind. 
I should like shift in my chair 

994
00:51:05,280 --> 00:51:06,400
a lot as I'm as I'm reading 
this. 

995
00:51:07,120 --> 00:51:08,560
Yeah. 
Do you have any Adderall over 

996
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:09,880
there or? 
Yeah. 

997
00:51:09,880 --> 00:51:10,920
Is that what it is? 
OK. 

998
00:51:11,520 --> 00:51:14,040
You could do a push up. 
Adderall I think I won't get in 

999
00:51:14,040 --> 00:51:16,360
trouble for joking about I don't
know which what it is. 

1000
00:51:17,640 --> 00:51:21,120
My son is is neuroatypical, so I
feel OK calling him out for 

1001
00:51:21,120 --> 00:51:23,600
this. 
A rejection of any kind of 

1002
00:51:23,600 --> 00:51:26,000
shared and defined sense of 
common culture in this nation 

1003
00:51:26,000 --> 00:51:27,840
and others has significant 
costs. 

1004
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:31,840
We should, indeed must return to
a shared national experience, an

1005
00:51:31,840 --> 00:51:34,880
embrace of common identity that,
by definition, puts forward 

1006
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:38,120
certain ideas, values, cultures 
and ways of living at the 

1007
00:51:38,120 --> 00:51:42,880
exclusion of others. 
That's Alex Karp in his Palantir

1008
00:51:42,880 --> 00:51:45,240
SQ3 letter to shareholders from 
November. 

1009
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:49,160
Not Deal Book where you know he 
we're we're referencing the 

1010
00:51:49,160 --> 00:51:54,000
crazy physical antics of Alex 
Karp at Deal Book, though I 

1011
00:51:54,000 --> 00:51:56,640
don't know if the actual prose 
was this. 

1012
00:51:56,640 --> 00:51:59,800
Good quote. 
The prose from the deal book 

1013
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:02,280
moment. 
If we could include a video clip

1014
00:52:02,280 --> 00:52:04,440
in this post, I would have 
included a video. 

1015
00:52:04,440 --> 00:52:08,360
However, I wanted to get the 
sentiment across of the twitchy 

1016
00:52:08,360 --> 00:52:11,480
conversation. 
Yeah, I think Alex Karp has 

1017
00:52:11,480 --> 00:52:14,720
been, you know, a really 
prominent CEO this year in tech.

1018
00:52:14,720 --> 00:52:18,000
Obviously, Palantir stock has 
gone up quite a bit and down and

1019
00:52:18,000 --> 00:52:22,240
fluctuated, but you know, it's 
been a stock to watch and his, 

1020
00:52:22,240 --> 00:52:25,440
you know, embrace of the the 
West and the Trump 

1021
00:52:25,440 --> 00:52:29,600
administration and kind of 
defense tech as a larger theme. 

1022
00:52:30,320 --> 00:52:34,800
The West in the as a synonym for
white people or I don't know, 

1023
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:37,280
the West is yeah. 
What does the West mean? 

1024
00:52:37,280 --> 00:52:39,680
How they say it's like 
Judeo-christian values. 

1025
00:52:39,680 --> 00:52:41,400
You know it's. 
A catch all for all that, you 

1026
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:45,000
know, and how best we should do 
business and live our lives. 

1027
00:52:45,240 --> 00:52:48,400
And his sort of embrace of that 
kind of went mainstream and it 

1028
00:52:48,400 --> 00:52:51,080
was enough that he put it, you 
know, in his quarterly letter to

1029
00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:53,760
shareholders that like this is 
the philosophy we are going to 

1030
00:52:53,760 --> 00:52:56,600
follow at Palantir. 
And I think it's a philosophy 

1031
00:52:56,600 --> 00:52:59,080
that guides a lot of these 
defense tech companies that are 

1032
00:52:59,120 --> 00:53:02,280
have propped up that are all 
kind of children of Palantir in 

1033
00:53:02,280 --> 00:53:04,560
a way, or children of Anderill, 
which is also came out of 

1034
00:53:04,560 --> 00:53:07,040
Palantir with a lot of ex guys 
there. 

1035
00:53:07,040 --> 00:53:10,960
So felt like this was a way to 
capture the defense tech moment 

1036
00:53:10,960 --> 00:53:15,120
and maybe we can, you know, 
embed a little twitchiness 

1037
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:18,680
somehow when. 
This this I take great umbrage 

1038
00:53:19,120 --> 00:53:23,640
embrace of common identity that 
by definition puts forward 

1039
00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:29,120
certain ideas values like I'm 
just, you know, the great thing 

1040
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,520
about being a country organized 
around the Declaration of 

1041
00:53:32,520 --> 00:53:36,600
Independence and Enlightenment 
ideas is that we're organized 

1042
00:53:36,600 --> 00:53:40,920
around ideas directly. 
Like I, I, I feel like they're 

1043
00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:44,800
trying to sort of they, yeah, 
they're the, you know, there's a

1044
00:53:44,800 --> 00:53:49,360
lot of identitarianism obviously
on the rise this year, and this 

1045
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:50,680
seems to try and have it. 
It's. 

1046
00:53:51,160 --> 00:53:53,160
Trying to have it both ways. 
It is. 

1047
00:53:53,160 --> 00:53:57,120
It's trying to say, you know, 
yes, we're rah, rah America. 

1048
00:53:57,120 --> 00:53:59,560
But if you're being rah, rah 
America, you have to embrace, 

1049
00:53:59,560 --> 00:54:02,720
you know, American values of 
being a country founded on 

1050
00:54:02,720 --> 00:54:08,720
ideas, not identity and, you 
know, nationality and race for 

1051
00:54:08,720 --> 00:54:12,240
that narrative. 
And he's also trying to do it 

1052
00:54:12,240 --> 00:54:14,160
pretty heavily. 
But yeah, our identity is what 

1053
00:54:14,160 --> 00:54:15,160
matters, and that's the right 
one. 

1054
00:54:15,160 --> 00:54:18,360
So it felt like, you know, 
really captured the spirit of 

1055
00:54:18,360 --> 00:54:20,280
those guys. 
Yeah, Karp's a weird 1 though, 

1056
00:54:20,280 --> 00:54:21,840
too. 
He doesn't really fit the molds 

1057
00:54:21,840 --> 00:54:24,200
of a lot of these people. 
I mean the dude voted for Kamala

1058
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:28,640
and so he's also like they. 
Always bring him out as the like

1059
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:31,360
token Democrat defence tech guy 
at all these. 

1060
00:54:31,360 --> 00:54:33,040
Events, yeah. 
Like he's kind of a Lib. 

1061
00:54:33,040 --> 00:54:34,400
He's just sort of all over the 
place. 

1062
00:54:34,400 --> 00:54:36,280
I never know what to to draw 
from him. 

1063
00:54:36,280 --> 00:54:40,040
I like the idea of him as like 
an avatar of kind of the defence

1064
00:54:40,040 --> 00:54:42,920
tech moment too, because Palmer 
Luckey is the same sort of 

1065
00:54:42,920 --> 00:54:44,440
thing. 
He's kind of hard to categorize,

1066
00:54:45,640 --> 00:54:48,960
but these guys matter. 
But Palmer is much more socially

1067
00:54:49,000 --> 00:54:52,600
of the maca world than yes. 
Well, I mean, Carp is close to 

1068
00:54:52,600 --> 00:54:54,960
Peter Teal, so I mean, they're 
all I mean, it's. 

1069
00:54:54,960 --> 00:54:56,520
Complicated. 
They're all complicated. 

1070
00:54:57,000 --> 00:54:58,960
I don't have a great read on 
Alex Carp. 

1071
00:54:59,080 --> 00:55:03,360
I used to go to Sun Valley, the 
big media tech. 

1072
00:55:03,360 --> 00:55:08,200
Not as a man with a badge, as a 
reporter clinging to the edges. 

1073
00:55:08,360 --> 00:55:12,520
Yeah, I would sit at a morsel. 
Please, please, CEO, can you 

1074
00:55:12,520 --> 00:55:16,240
give me a scoop about what 
coffee order you're making right

1075
00:55:16,240 --> 00:55:18,240
now? 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

1076
00:55:18,240 --> 00:55:20,240
It's it's like. 
That's not even a people, right?

1077
00:55:20,240 --> 00:55:24,480
It's like Tim Cook had a coffee 
with Mark Zuckerberg scoop, you 

1078
00:55:24,480 --> 00:55:26,160
know? 
No, no, it was Tim. 

1079
00:55:26,160 --> 00:55:28,640
Tim. 
Tim Apple was at the coffee shop

1080
00:55:28,640 --> 00:55:31,360
outside Sun Valley and he tried 
to pay with Apple Pay and they 

1081
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:34,680
didn't accept it. 
And we wrote a little item about

1082
00:55:34,680 --> 00:55:36,920
that for the information. 
It got picked up by Business 

1083
00:55:36,920 --> 00:55:38,480
Insider. 
Oh, that's. 

1084
00:55:38,480 --> 00:55:40,920
A great wheel of content. 
Glad you got aggregated there. 

1085
00:55:41,640 --> 00:55:44,800
Yeah, it's it it really one of 
the true humiliating experiences

1086
00:55:44,800 --> 00:55:46,160
of my life is going to Sun 
Valley. 

1087
00:55:46,160 --> 00:55:49,560
But I would see Alex Karp 
walking around, you know, in 

1088
00:55:49,560 --> 00:55:52,400
between the the lodge and the 
duck pond. 

1089
00:55:52,400 --> 00:55:55,240
And the amount of nervous energy
emanating from this guy could 

1090
00:55:55,240 --> 00:55:58,320
power a fucking data center. 
That guy is. 

1091
00:55:58,920 --> 00:56:00,480
There's a lot. 
There's a lot going on there. 

1092
00:56:01,160 --> 00:56:04,520
Let's move on. 
All right quote #15. 

1093
00:56:04,720 --> 00:56:06,640
I like this one. 
This is where we're looking for 

1094
00:56:06,640 --> 00:56:09,800
an ecosystem of banks, private 
equity, maybe even governmental,

1095
00:56:09,960 --> 00:56:12,960
the way governments can come to 
bear meaning like just first of 

1096
00:56:12,960 --> 00:56:15,760
all, the backstop, the guarantee
that allows the financing to 

1097
00:56:15,760 --> 00:56:17,800
happen. 
So that was Sarah Fryer, of 

1098
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,720
course, open AICFO and whether 
open AI would need a federal 

1099
00:56:20,720 --> 00:56:23,800
backstop against its spending. 
And that was at The Journal, 

1100
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:26,160
Wall Street Journal's tech live 
event in Napa. 

1101
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,600
And that was in November. 
Great, great pick, Backstop. 

1102
00:56:30,480 --> 00:56:32,160
That's the backstop. 
Another word of the year, 

1103
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,080
honestly. 
Backstop really rang around 

1104
00:56:34,080 --> 00:56:35,640
Twitter. 
I mean, that one speaks for 

1105
00:56:35,640 --> 00:56:39,720
itself, you know, open AI CFO 
calling for a federal backstop 

1106
00:56:40,080 --> 00:56:44,200
in words that she quickly walked
back after this live event. 

1107
00:56:44,200 --> 00:56:46,600
But that's the power of live 
journalism and why we have a 

1108
00:56:46,600 --> 00:56:49,120
thriving events business, 
because you you say stuff on 

1109
00:56:49,120 --> 00:56:51,960
stage that maybe reveals what 
you're really thinking about. 

1110
00:56:52,120 --> 00:56:54,680
There was a lot of hand wringing
from Open Eye after that where 

1111
00:56:54,680 --> 00:56:55,960
they were like, that's not what 
we meant. 

1112
00:56:55,960 --> 00:56:57,480
My words were taken kind of 
context. 

1113
00:56:57,480 --> 00:57:00,240
I was just agreeing broadly with
the premise of this. 

1114
00:57:00,240 --> 00:57:02,560
And they had to, you know, 
announce that they never wanted 

1115
00:57:02,560 --> 00:57:04,400
to do it. 
And then it turned out there was

1116
00:57:04,400 --> 00:57:06,320
some letter that Open Eye had 
actually sent to the 

1117
00:57:06,320 --> 00:57:08,200
administration in which they had
floated this. 

1118
00:57:09,080 --> 00:57:10,640
I don't have the reporter to 
back this up. 

1119
00:57:10,640 --> 00:57:12,280
This is purely based on 
intuition. 

1120
00:57:12,520 --> 00:57:14,560
They fucking want a federal 
backstop. 

1121
00:57:14,960 --> 00:57:18,440
There is no question in my mind 
that Open AI wants to be sure 

1122
00:57:18,440 --> 00:57:21,400
that when they are start to take
out enormous loans to pay for 

1123
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:24,640
their compute needs that they 
want to be sure that they will 

1124
00:57:24,640 --> 00:57:27,560
not default as a company. 
And they got called out for it. 

1125
00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:29,520
They kind of got a little too 
close to the sun. 

1126
00:57:29,520 --> 00:57:31,840
They saw everyone on All You 
Know from. 

1127
00:57:31,960 --> 00:57:35,120
Left to right had a policy memo 
document that floated this idea.

1128
00:57:35,120 --> 00:57:38,480
This was not an errant thing, 
she said. 

1129
00:57:38,480 --> 00:57:41,520
And it really feels like if 
they'd done it more artfully, 

1130
00:57:41,520 --> 00:57:43,400
they might have gotten away with
it. 

1131
00:57:43,400 --> 00:57:47,040
Like, it's not totally outside 
of reason that they could 

1132
00:57:47,040 --> 00:57:50,160
convince the Trump 
administration to say, hey, it's

1133
00:57:50,160 --> 00:57:52,920
very strategically important 
that we have an investment. 

1134
00:57:53,200 --> 00:57:55,520
We're going to guarantee loans 
to open AI. 

1135
00:57:55,840 --> 00:57:59,640
There's no reason they'd fail. 
Like, But I mean, thankfully, I 

1136
00:57:59,640 --> 00:58:03,120
think as we said at the top of 
this episode, there are enough 

1137
00:58:03,200 --> 00:58:06,560
AI skeptics that that I think 
would be very politically 

1138
00:58:06,560 --> 00:58:09,800
unpalatable. 
And anyone who believes in free 

1139
00:58:09,800 --> 00:58:14,120
enterprise and risk and thinks 
bailouts to store the entire 

1140
00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:17,120
economy and that capitalism 
means capitalism should be 

1141
00:58:17,120 --> 00:58:18,800
against a fucking federal 
backstop. 

1142
00:58:18,800 --> 00:58:21,040
Like that's the risk investors 
are meant to take. 

1143
00:58:21,040 --> 00:58:24,640
They're betting on whether AI is
safer, say, you know, a safe 

1144
00:58:24,640 --> 00:58:28,840
financial investment or not. 
And that's the provenance of the

1145
00:58:28,840 --> 00:58:30,920
free market and investors, not 
the government. 

1146
00:58:30,920 --> 00:58:34,400
So yeah, I'm happy to root 
against. 

1147
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,160
What venture capital is, it's 
inherently A risky investment 

1148
00:58:38,160 --> 00:58:40,640
like that is, you know, where 
these companies are birthed 

1149
00:58:40,640 --> 00:58:42,080
from. 
You know, that's kind of the 

1150
00:58:42,080 --> 00:58:45,080
whole deal that you're taking a 
risk and it may not work out, 

1151
00:58:45,080 --> 00:58:46,640
but you make it super rich 
otherwise. 

1152
00:58:46,880 --> 00:58:50,720
So it's funny to see, you know, 
Open AI, the most valuable 

1153
00:58:50,800 --> 00:58:55,000
venture backed private company 
in the world, might maybe is it 

1154
00:58:55,160 --> 00:58:56,320
compared to SpaceX? 
Where are they? 

1155
00:58:56,320 --> 00:58:57,280
Are they neck and neck right 
now? 

1156
00:58:57,280 --> 00:59:00,480
But anyway, it's yeah, you know,
we'll do our business in 

1157
00:59:00,480 --> 00:59:01,960
private. 
It's not even public. 

1158
00:59:01,960 --> 00:59:03,520
But yeah, we need a federal 
backstop. 

1159
00:59:03,520 --> 00:59:05,680
But it's it's not even venture 
capital. 

1160
00:59:05,680 --> 00:59:08,960
It's debt, like debt comes with 
risk with it. 

1161
00:59:08,960 --> 00:59:11,680
Like that's the reason that 
people that take debt make money

1162
00:59:11,680 --> 00:59:15,040
from taking debt, taking on debt
like buying up debt because it's

1163
00:59:15,040 --> 00:59:18,120
a risky endeavor. 
And so it was funny to see David

1164
00:59:18,120 --> 00:59:20,920
Sachs, you know, and in response
to this whole thing being like, 

1165
00:59:20,920 --> 00:59:23,520
the government will absolutely 
not be bailing out any AI 

1166
00:59:23,520 --> 00:59:24,800
companies. 
There are lots of model 

1167
00:59:24,800 --> 00:59:29,000
providers out there, which is an
idiotic thing to say because the

1168
00:59:29,000 --> 00:59:32,280
whole point of being too big to 
fail means that like there are 

1169
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:35,360
wider implications to a failure.
There's a fallout for it. 

1170
00:59:36,600 --> 00:59:40,240
We said this on the show in 
stories on newcomer open eye 

1171
00:59:40,240 --> 00:59:43,520
strategy of taking on these 
massive, you know, these massive

1172
00:59:43,520 --> 00:59:46,040
deals. 
He is a too big to fail strategy

1173
00:59:46,280 --> 00:59:48,200
that they are. 
You know, Sam Altman has been 

1174
00:59:48,200 --> 00:59:51,480
intertwining himself into the 
broader economic environment 

1175
00:59:51,480 --> 00:59:54,440
such that like if they were to 
default as a company, there 

1176
00:59:54,440 --> 00:59:57,560
would be a pretty large, maybe 
not catastrophic, but a large 

1177
00:59:57,560 --> 01:00:01,160
effect on on, you know, tech 
stocks more broadly. 

1178
01:00:01,680 --> 01:00:04,560
And I don't know, I think he's 
engineered it. 

1179
01:00:04,560 --> 01:00:07,440
This is where we're at right 
now, opening eyes wound into the

1180
01:00:07,440 --> 01:00:10,320
valuation of multiple publicly 
traded companies and. 

1181
01:00:10,800 --> 01:00:13,760
If they were to collapse one 
day, it would have some sort of 

1182
01:00:13,760 --> 01:00:18,520
larger economic fallout. 
OK, brief thing here. 

1183
01:00:18,600 --> 01:00:22,520
It's like equity is much safer 
than debt, right? 

1184
01:00:22,560 --> 01:00:26,640
You know, it's like most of the 
money open AI has taken on so 

1185
01:00:26,640 --> 01:00:31,560
far is in the form of equity. 
So if Open AI value collapses, 

1186
01:00:31,880 --> 01:00:34,160
Microsoft or somebody could buy 
it at a low price. 

1187
01:00:34,160 --> 01:00:36,520
It doesn't mean it collapses to 
0. 

1188
01:00:36,560 --> 01:00:39,680
The real problem is if it has 
all this debt that you know, 

1189
01:00:39,680 --> 01:00:43,800
outstrips its equity value, then
you know, everybody could want 

1190
01:00:43,800 --> 01:00:47,840
to avoid buying it because they 
would take on all this debt and 

1191
01:00:47,840 --> 01:00:49,320
then then you have a huge 
problem. 

1192
01:00:49,320 --> 01:00:53,480
So right now I don't think we 
have the level of debt that you 

1193
01:00:53,480 --> 01:00:55,240
we have that sort of House of 
Cards. 

1194
01:00:55,560 --> 01:00:57,480
But the debt exists at the 
peripheries. 

1195
01:00:57,520 --> 01:01:00,080
Like Oracle, which is a major 
partner of theirs, has taken on 

1196
01:01:00,080 --> 01:01:01,680
a lot of debt to pay for data 
centers. 

1197
01:01:01,680 --> 01:01:05,360
Core Weave has taken on debt. 
Yeah, yeah, I mean all. 

1198
01:01:05,400 --> 01:01:07,880
Those companies aren't gonna get
saved. 

1199
01:01:07,880 --> 01:01:10,520
That's why it's good that it's 
sort of externalized from from 

1200
01:01:10,520 --> 01:01:13,800
OEI. 
So I I don't know that I see the

1201
01:01:14,320 --> 01:01:17,880
catastrophe you're painting. 
But Sam Altman has an insatiable

1202
01:01:17,880 --> 01:01:22,520
appetite for more and knows 
that, you know he's in the 

1203
01:01:22,520 --> 01:01:26,720
business of scale, right. 
These foundation models seem 

1204
01:01:26,720 --> 01:01:30,480
still to get smarter the more 
they spend on training runs, and

1205
01:01:30,480 --> 01:01:32,320
so he'll take as much money as 
he can get. 

1206
01:01:32,640 --> 01:01:36,960
And if the government giving him
a backstop to get cheap debt was

1207
01:01:36,960 --> 01:01:39,880
gonna be 1 path, he'd try it. 
But he's also happy to try 

1208
01:01:39,880 --> 01:01:41,880
things that don't succeed and 
move on to the next one. 

1209
01:01:41,880 --> 01:01:46,040
And so hopefully the backstop 
idea didn't take. 

1210
01:01:46,280 --> 01:01:48,440
To Sarah Fryer, it never hurts 
to ask. 

1211
01:01:48,640 --> 01:01:51,320
You never know until you ask. 
Exactly. 

1212
01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:56,920
All right, Quote 16 for 2025. 
I think democracy's fucked if we

1213
01:01:56,920 --> 01:01:58,840
do this. 
That is from LA Adventurers. 

1214
01:01:58,840 --> 01:02:04,920
Andy Konwinsky interviewed by me
at the Cereal Valley AI Summit, 

1215
01:02:04,920 --> 01:02:08,360
and this was about whether what 
would happen if the US seeds 

1216
01:02:08,360 --> 01:02:10,920
open source on AI research 
advancement to China. 

1217
01:02:11,040 --> 01:02:13,240
Yeah. 
So I mean, I picked that one in 

1218
01:02:13,240 --> 01:02:16,600
part because I feel like the 
open source debate hadn't been 

1219
01:02:16,600 --> 01:02:20,120
touched on as much in this list.
But the the the increasing 

1220
01:02:20,120 --> 01:02:23,080
competition with China around 
the AI race was a very major 

1221
01:02:23,080 --> 01:02:26,840
theme of 2025. 
And they are obviously, maybe 

1222
01:02:26,840 --> 01:02:29,360
they're cheating, but there's 
some evidence that suggests that

1223
01:02:29,360 --> 01:02:32,720
they're taking some stuff from 
the US But they are, you know, 

1224
01:02:32,800 --> 01:02:34,760
kicking our ass an open source 
in a lot of ways. 

1225
01:02:34,800 --> 01:02:39,680
So I think it's a fairpoint. 
Andy, you know, founder of 

1226
01:02:39,680 --> 01:02:44,720
Perplexity and Databricks, very 
importantly so a serious guy and

1227
01:02:44,720 --> 01:02:47,680
has the beard to reflect his 
seriousness. 

1228
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:49,760
I don't know, Tom, a real you 
asked the question. 

1229
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,360
What was your take? 
The Rick Rubin of Tech? 

1230
01:02:53,000 --> 01:02:54,520
Very difficult. 
From only in a set. 

1231
01:02:54,560 --> 01:03:03,080
Way yeah, I think open source is
a fascinating topic that was so 

1232
01:03:03,080 --> 01:03:06,120
big at the beginning of the year
because of DeepSeek and this 

1233
01:03:06,120 --> 01:03:08,680
idea of like whether an open 
source model could actively 

1234
01:03:08,680 --> 01:03:12,200
compete with, you know what the 
the proprietary, you know, 

1235
01:03:12,200 --> 01:03:15,000
closed source models can do it. 
We've kind of forgotten about 

1236
01:03:15,000 --> 01:03:17,640
it. 
China really does seem to be way

1237
01:03:17,640 --> 01:03:20,000
out ahead right now. 
Not even does seem to be they 

1238
01:03:20,000 --> 01:03:22,840
are way out ahead. 
And there's a lot of open source

1239
01:03:22,840 --> 01:03:25,320
models that are being used by 
American companies that are all 

1240
01:03:25,320 --> 01:03:27,680
made in China. 
And, you know, that is 

1241
01:03:27,680 --> 01:03:29,720
concerning to a lot of people 
that dynamic. 

1242
01:03:29,760 --> 01:03:32,080
And you're seeing a few 
companies coming up like 

1243
01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:38,200
Reflection and maybe Meta is 
actually abandoning open source.

1244
01:03:38,200 --> 01:03:42,480
So that's kind of interesting. 
But I actually, I would place my

1245
01:03:42,480 --> 01:03:45,480
bet that 5 to 10 years from now 
that the most important models 

1246
01:03:45,480 --> 01:03:48,880
probably will be open source. 
It just is the trend of that 

1247
01:03:48,880 --> 01:03:51,640
kind of technology. 
So I guess if you're someone 

1248
01:03:51,640 --> 01:03:54,160
like Andy, you, you better hope 
it's coming from an American. 

1249
01:03:54,160 --> 01:03:57,520
What I don't understand is if 
it's open truly, then who cares 

1250
01:03:57,520 --> 01:04:00,280
if it's Chinese? 
We can still have U.S. companies

1251
01:04:00,840 --> 01:04:02,680
that host 100% What what does it
matter? 

1252
01:04:02,680 --> 01:04:05,280
I mean, is he more interest? 
He's more worried about like the

1253
01:04:05,280 --> 01:04:08,520
capability and just that if 
you're producing the open source

1254
01:04:08,520 --> 01:04:11,840
research, you, you understand it
better and therefore you're more

1255
01:04:11,840 --> 01:04:14,200
capable I. 
Mean it's hard to get into like 

1256
01:04:14,200 --> 01:04:17,640
the geopolitics of it all, but I
think it's he was equating open 

1257
01:04:17,640 --> 01:04:20,560
source with democracy that like 
it's and that's a kind of core 

1258
01:04:20,560 --> 01:04:23,960
belief of certain technologists 
is that technology should be 

1259
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:27,520
something that is democratically
available and open source is the

1260
01:04:27,520 --> 01:04:30,800
only real way of getting there. 
And if we, you know, we believe 

1261
01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,480
in a future entirely run by AI, 
the public should have the right

1262
01:04:34,520 --> 01:04:38,760
to, you know, be able to adjust 
it as they want and not pay a 

1263
01:04:38,760 --> 01:04:41,640
price every single time you want
to access this technology. 

1264
01:04:41,640 --> 01:04:46,720
It's an interesting idea. 
Quote 17 Homestretch second to 

1265
01:04:46,720 --> 01:04:48,840
last. 
We should have, like, corporate 

1266
01:04:48,840 --> 01:04:50,800
music playing in the background,
like those, like, training 

1267
01:04:50,800 --> 01:04:55,240
videos, you know? 
Yeah, We are delighted by 

1268
01:04:55,240 --> 01:04:57,200
Google's success. 
They've made great advances in 

1269
01:04:57,240 --> 01:04:59,080
AI and we continue to supply to 
Google. 

1270
01:04:59,600 --> 01:05:01,880
NVIDIA is a generation ahead of 
the industry. 

1271
01:05:02,120 --> 01:05:04,880
It's the only platform that runs
every AI model and does it 

1272
01:05:04,880 --> 01:05:07,480
everywhere computing is done. 
NVIDIA offers greater 

1273
01:05:07,480 --> 01:05:10,080
performance, versatility and 
fungibility than ASICS, which 

1274
01:05:10,080 --> 01:05:12,680
are designed for specific AI 
frameworks or functions. 

1275
01:05:13,200 --> 01:05:16,640
This is a tweet from Nvidia's 
newsroom after the release of 

1276
01:05:16,640 --> 01:05:20,400
Google's Gemini 3, and it got a 
bunch of public praise. 

1277
01:05:20,400 --> 01:05:23,040
And also I think it's 
specifically in response to a 

1278
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,960
story from the information that 
Meta was talking to Google about

1279
01:05:27,080 --> 01:05:29,440
purchasing a huge number of TP 
use from them. 

1280
01:05:30,320 --> 01:05:33,600
Right, yes. 
So this I would call the quote 

1281
01:05:33,600 --> 01:05:36,960
that personified the oh shit 
moment for a lot of people about

1282
01:05:36,960 --> 01:05:41,320
Gemini 3's launch and how 
successful the model was while 

1283
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:44,800
being trained on Google's in 
house TVU chips to where 

1284
01:05:44,800 --> 01:05:49,520
everyone kind of realized Google
has the full package under one 

1285
01:05:49,520 --> 01:05:53,320
roof and we should not count out
Google at this moment in the AI 

1286
01:05:53,320 --> 01:05:55,440
race. 
They have top scientists, They 

1287
01:05:55,440 --> 01:05:57,600
have a really strong high 
performing model. 

1288
01:05:57,600 --> 01:06:02,000
They have a great image model 
they have of search engines 

1289
01:06:02,320 --> 01:06:04,920
business that prints money for 
them to power all of this. 

1290
01:06:04,920 --> 01:06:07,640
So they aren't necessarily as 
reliant on debt as maybe some 

1291
01:06:07,640 --> 01:06:09,440
other people will be. 
And they have the chips 

1292
01:06:09,440 --> 01:06:12,320
themselves. 
So that's kind of, you know, we 

1293
01:06:12,320 --> 01:06:14,880
can debate if they're a monopoly
or not since they kind of are 

1294
01:06:15,000 --> 01:06:16,400
told they are, but it doesn't 
matter. 

1295
01:06:16,400 --> 01:06:22,360
But they have an advantage here.
Google stock is up 65% year to 

1296
01:06:22,360 --> 01:06:25,760
date. 
It certainly has been not not a 

1297
01:06:25,760 --> 01:06:27,920
surprise to us as you've heard 
on this podcast before. 

1298
01:06:28,360 --> 01:06:31,360
I guess we should make more 
money betting on stocks we 

1299
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:34,920
believe in because we've been 
Tom came into the job betting 

1300
01:06:35,000 --> 01:06:38,480
betting on Google or narratively
betting on Google and 

1301
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,040
unfortunately stock is doing 
well. 

1302
01:06:40,600 --> 01:06:44,000
But NVIDIA I I you know I think 
as Tom is going to get into this

1303
01:06:44,000 --> 01:06:48,920
is extreme defensiveness NPR 
from NVIDIA like doth protest 

1304
01:06:48,920 --> 01:06:51,840
too much situation Yeah what are
you we're. 

1305
01:06:51,840 --> 01:06:53,720
Doing great. 
Our business is doing awesome. 

1306
01:06:53,720 --> 01:06:56,680
And don't forget forget that 
you'll need a lot more than just

1307
01:06:56,680 --> 01:06:58,560
one type of chip. 
Exactly. 

1308
01:06:58,680 --> 01:07:01,240
We're specialized. 
Yeah, I don't want to go into 

1309
01:07:01,240 --> 01:07:05,000
the Lulu world of telling other 
people how to manage their calm 

1310
01:07:05,000 --> 01:07:08,560
strategy, but sometimes not 
saying anything is the best 

1311
01:07:08,560 --> 01:07:12,840
response to an event, and not 
even a particularly damaging one

1312
01:07:12,840 --> 01:07:15,880
like Nvidia's A4 fucking 
trillion dollar company. 

1313
01:07:15,880 --> 01:07:19,400
You can handle like one or two 
bad days of trading because of a

1314
01:07:19,400 --> 01:07:22,560
story saying that like one 
company is going to be buying 

1315
01:07:22,560 --> 01:07:25,600
your competitors chips. 
Like you guys are still 

1316
01:07:25,600 --> 01:07:27,720
basically owning the whole AI 
chips game. 

1317
01:07:28,440 --> 01:07:30,920
So maybe maybe don't talk too 
much about that. 

1318
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:34,360
But like in terms of Google, I 
have not actually messed around 

1319
01:07:34,360 --> 01:07:36,480
with the Gemini text model that 
much. 

1320
01:07:36,480 --> 01:07:38,960
I haven't, you know, seen it 
back and forth with that sort of

1321
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:40,280
thing. 
But Nano Banana might be my 

1322
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:45,000
favorite app of the year. 
I think it's an incredibly fun 

1323
01:07:45,520 --> 01:07:48,280
in a generation tool. 
It's so quick. 

1324
01:07:48,360 --> 01:07:51,440
It really understands what 
you're asking for It I think 

1325
01:07:51,440 --> 01:07:56,000
really is that was like the sort
of lead piece of the Google 

1326
01:07:56,000 --> 01:07:57,920
comeback, quote UN quote 
comeback story was the 

1327
01:07:57,920 --> 01:08:02,440
effectiveness of Nano Banana. 
And they still got it, Dennis 

1328
01:08:02,440 --> 01:08:03,480
still. 
He's still got it. 

1329
01:08:03,720 --> 01:08:09,480
NVIDIA is up 36.5% this year, so
not bad, but it's not not as 

1330
01:08:09,480 --> 01:08:14,320
sexy as it as it had been. 
It's up over five years. 

1331
01:08:14,320 --> 01:08:21,720
It is up 1350%. 
So yeah, we, we got so much 

1332
01:08:21,720 --> 01:08:28,240
growth in what, 2024? 
The 2025 for NVIDIA was just 

1333
01:08:28,560 --> 01:08:31,720
not, not as exciting. 
But Google, Google has been 

1334
01:08:31,720 --> 01:08:33,359
insane. 
And we're getting a little 

1335
01:08:33,359 --> 01:08:37,200
defensiveness from NVIDIA and 
their public, from their public 

1336
01:08:37,200 --> 01:08:41,439
relations department. 
All right, our final quote for 

1337
01:08:41,439 --> 01:08:45,720
2025 quote #18. 
I cannot imagine having gone 

1338
01:08:45,720 --> 01:08:48,640
through figuring out how to 
raise a newborn without ChatGPT.

1339
01:08:50,600 --> 01:08:56,319
Do it again, he's not that bad. 
I cannot imagine having gone 

1340
01:08:56,319 --> 01:08:59,080
through figuring out how to 
raise a newborn without ChatGPT.

1341
01:09:00,160 --> 01:09:01,720
That's Sam. 
Is that a better Sam? 

1342
01:09:01,720 --> 01:09:02,920
I don't know. 
I mean, it's usually a little 

1343
01:09:02,920 --> 01:09:05,200
more muted and and kind of 
confused. 

1344
01:09:05,200 --> 01:09:06,840
He's totally reinvented his 
voice. 

1345
01:09:06,840 --> 01:09:08,800
That's Sam Altman. 
We refer to him as Sam. 

1346
01:09:08,800 --> 01:09:12,319
We've literally gotten questions
from YouTube commenters being 

1347
01:09:12,319 --> 01:09:15,080
like who is Sam? 
I think you can default. 

1348
01:09:15,080 --> 01:09:19,880
Find another podcast Sam Sam. 
Altman, but but yes, there are 

1349
01:09:19,880 --> 01:09:21,840
other Ganges. 
From from Lord of the Rings, 

1350
01:09:23,399 --> 01:09:24,840
Sam, do you think we're talking 
about? 

1351
01:09:25,040 --> 01:09:27,800
Sam Altman on The Tonight Show 
with Jimmy Fallon, December 8th,

1352
01:09:27,800 --> 01:09:29,880
2025. 
Madeline, why was this our last 

1353
01:09:29,880 --> 01:09:33,680
quote of 2025? 
It was, you know, Sam Altman go 

1354
01:09:33,680 --> 01:09:36,800
on TV and act human challenge. 
Oh failed. 

1355
01:09:37,319 --> 01:09:40,960
It was you know, oh, every time 
we have these guys, you know, 

1356
01:09:40,960 --> 01:09:43,200
come and defend. 
I mean, so much of this list was

1357
01:09:43,200 --> 01:09:46,279
really the AI industry coming 
out and saying why they're 

1358
01:09:46,279 --> 01:09:49,279
important, why they should 
matter political leaders saying 

1359
01:09:49,279 --> 01:09:51,319
why they should matter defending
them as well. 

1360
01:09:51,560 --> 01:09:54,520
This was, you know, to the 
normies, The Tonight Show we're 

1361
01:09:54,520 --> 01:09:58,120
going on middle America network 
talk show. 

1362
01:09:58,120 --> 01:10:00,600
Let's chat. 
Why is AI so great? 

1363
01:10:00,960 --> 01:10:04,160
Oh this thing, to your point 
Eric, that we humans have been 

1364
01:10:04,160 --> 01:10:07,200
doing for millions of years. 
Can't do it without AI. 

1365
01:10:07,200 --> 01:10:11,440
Real relatable content there. 
Which is funny because on this 

1366
01:10:11,440 --> 01:10:15,760
podcast I often invoke using 
Chachi BT for my newborn. 

1367
01:10:15,760 --> 01:10:19,240
So I'm sympathetic that it is a 
useful thing. 

1368
01:10:19,320 --> 01:10:22,560
But just saying it's the 
hyperbole of the fundraiser. 

1369
01:10:22,560 --> 01:10:25,640
Sam Allman, right? 
He's he gives these maximalist 

1370
01:10:25,640 --> 01:10:28,000
things to get people to give 
them his money. 

1371
01:10:28,480 --> 01:10:33,280
And then sort of suggesting that
you like needed Chachi BT to do 

1372
01:10:33,280 --> 01:10:36,160
the most essential of human 
tasks. 

1373
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:40,400
Raising your child just shows 
the level of disconnection from 

1374
01:10:40,400 --> 01:10:42,520
real humans. 
That doesn't make you a great 

1375
01:10:42,520 --> 01:10:49,000
spokesman on The Tonight Show. 
Yeah, I think 26 is gonna be a 

1376
01:10:49,560 --> 01:10:53,440
very critical one for the AI 
industry as we are well past the

1377
01:10:53,440 --> 01:10:57,000
point of like fun, novel growing
technology. 

1378
01:10:57,000 --> 01:10:59,080
Open AI is probably going to 
reach ChatGPT is going to reach 

1379
01:10:59,080 --> 01:11:02,080
a billion weekly users some 
point early next year. 

1380
01:11:02,920 --> 01:11:07,720
And their big battle is going to
be getting people, the normies 

1381
01:11:07,720 --> 01:11:10,120
comfortable with this technology
and and wanting to use it 

1382
01:11:10,120 --> 01:11:13,160
everyday and finding utility in 
it so that they're willing to 

1383
01:11:13,160 --> 01:11:16,200
pay money and, you know, make 
this company at some point 

1384
01:11:16,200 --> 01:11:19,040
financially stable. 
And if you can't do better than 

1385
01:11:19,040 --> 01:11:24,000
Sam did on probably the softest 
possible interview in in media, 

1386
01:11:24,440 --> 01:11:26,880
then it's not going to be an 
easy task. 

1387
01:11:28,360 --> 01:11:30,720
Yeah, Jimmy Fallon really known 
for his hard hitting 

1388
01:11:30,720 --> 01:11:33,520
interrogative questions there. 
Yeah, the guy's. 

1389
01:11:34,120 --> 01:11:35,120
Donald. 
Trump's hair. 

1390
01:11:37,560 --> 01:11:38,840
Maybe he should have done that 
for Sam. 

1391
01:11:39,520 --> 01:11:41,080
Yeah, he should have. 
Yeah, that would have been good.

1392
01:11:41,080 --> 01:11:42,160
Should. 
Have ruffled ruffled his hair, 

1393
01:11:42,160 --> 01:11:44,520
but I don't know. 
All right, those are the 18 

1394
01:11:44,520 --> 01:11:48,520
quotes that defined 2025. 
Thanks for listening. 

1395
01:11:48,760 --> 01:11:51,160
See you in 2026. 
Bye bye. 

1396
01:11:53,320 --> 01:11:55,640
Thank you for tuning into this 
week's episode of the podcast. 

1397
01:11:55,680 --> 01:11:57,520
If you're new here, please like 
and subscribe. 

1398
01:11:57,520 --> 01:12:00,120
It really helps out the channel.
Listen in for new episodes every

1399
01:12:00,120 --> 01:12:01,640
week, wherever you get your 
podcasts.