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Welcome Sally, I woke up to a 
crimson Sky. 

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Wednesday morning to see a flare
off in the distance, and I 

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grabbed my son and I said that's
looks missed, and it's bad. 

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And he's like, what, what 
happens? 

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Now, dad and I said, I don't 
know, I don't know. 

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We'll have to figure it out. 
That was my reading of the road 

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as Netflix is a as Netflix is 
earnings report anywhere. 

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Sorry, just start out the 
episode. 

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Hi, we're here with dead cat. 
This is Eric. 

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I'm the author of newcomer I'm 
in New Orleans for a wedding. 

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We all have a sort of ad hoc 
audio gear here. 

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Tom, what you said you were 
hiking so was camping for the 

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last couple of days. 
I did I camps from SF down to 

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Los Angeles over the last few 
days. 

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I'm back now, I'm back at home. 
So I do really excuses, but I 

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definitely miss the last week of
news. 

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Who's so? 
I'm excited to learn about it 

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all from you guys know. 
Yeah, I'm dragging. 

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You back to the podcast when 
you're supposed to be on 

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vacation but this 
extracurricular anyway and then 

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we have Lucas Shaw here. 
My old colleague at Bloomberg, 

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who is assembled enormous 
fiefdom on his, on the 

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entertainment team. 
I think he's like the Czar of 

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all things Hollywood. 
For Bloomberg. 

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World Is Ours inside. 
The Bloomberg Empire, there was 

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a period. 
Where is ours were very popular?

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Yeah. 
Come up with is ours for a 

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particular cut, exact area that 
way you could create a new 

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hierarchy within the existing 
scheme of hierarchies. 

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I'm not as in touch with the 
Bloomberg politics of the day 

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but Lucas is the epitome of the 
player-coach right reporting 

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him. 
And you have a newsletter screen

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time, right? 
Yeah. 

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Every Sunday. 
Yeah, the original Hollywood 

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Entertainment News letter, I 
feel like, right. 

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I know there's like they're a 
dime, a dozen these days. 

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But I feel like back when I was,
you know, on in the racket It. 

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I was I remember yours coming 
out, like it's been a couple 

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years since you were doing it, 
right? 

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It's actually been 8 years. 
Wow, but it didn't get really 

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routinized until about two years
ago. 

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Yeah, well I'm super excited to 
have you on. 

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I mean Netflix as Tom was 
hinting at things have been 

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crazy at terrible quarter fun to
dive into streaming world and 

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then after we talked about sort 
of the bloodbath at Netflix, we 

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can compare CN n plus to quit 
being a debate, what went on 

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there. 
And if now you're talking my 

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language, if that is the most 
embarrassing which is the more 

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embarrassing failure. 
I love y'all. 

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We are 
devoid of takes but actually 

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they just And in the course of a
way you haven't had an outlet. 

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Yeah. 
Just my kid. 

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Okay. 
Any. 

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All right, look at what you we 
sort of, you know, this the best

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I was actually reading your, you
did a great like, QA sort of 

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piece on what happened with 
Netflix. 

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Can you just sort of explain to 
people why this is such a 

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seismic quarter for Netflix? 
Well, so Netflix in the first 

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quarter of 2022. 
So, the first three months of 

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the year reported that it lost 
200,000 subscribers. 

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Which was a little I mean I 
thought they could have done a 

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slightly better job messaging 
this only because they lost 

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700,000 from exiting Russia so 
they really gained 500,000 in 

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the quarter excluding that but 
they lost 200,000 first time 

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they'd lost subscribers in about
a decade. 

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They also projected that in the 
current quarter that they would 

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lose another two million 
subscribers so they're going to 

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be down if they you know if they
deliver on their forecasts about

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2.2 million subscribers in the 
first six months of the year, 

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which is really unprecedented in
the company. 

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Since it went into streaming, 
the stock, which had already 

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been tanking for several months 
because people were nervous and 

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Netflix, it issued kind of a 
crappy forecast, the previous 

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time then declined more than 
thirty percent in one day and a 

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company that was worth more than
300 billion dollars in November,

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is now worth less than 100 
billion dollars, which is just 

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remarkable. 
And I think people had been 

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waiting for Netflix, to stumble 
again because it had just been 

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this Narrative of like, 
everything seemed to go. 

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Netflix is way for the Longest 
time and they finally did and 

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when they did everyone piled on 
Rise already presented my 

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newsletter you know it's Tesla 
Netflix have been these two 

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highly controversial, shorted 
stocks that people always said, 

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you know, like the Netflix case 
was it's taken on so much debt. 

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You know, it kept trying it 
invested to grow and then it 

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kept succeeding and Tesla has 
been similar. 

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And now a Tesla's, like, I mean,
obviously there's such different

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businesses and totally, you 
know, I'm but in terms of stock 

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market Obsession and And sort of
risky growth strategies. 

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I think they've been to stalks 
people love to talk about and 

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now Tesla's worthless. 
It's like a trillion dollar 

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company. 
And yeah, we see Netflix with 

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less than 100 billion in market 
cap. 

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It's it's been. 
Yeah, I mean they're all. 

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So, it's an interesting parallel
because they were companies that

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started in, you know, very well 
known public Industries, 

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Automobiles and entertainment. 
A lot of the reasons that people

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were skeptical of the companies,
I know A far less about Tesla 

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than I do. 
About Netflix been a Netflix's 

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case. 
A lot of the Skeptics were just 

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wrong. 
It's like, odette's can be a 

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problem that was really never a 
problem. 

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Oh, they're not going to be able
to make TV shows. 

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They really had no problem 
making TV shows, but one of the 

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reasons to be skeptical was that
there was a lot of competition 

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or a lot of companies that were 
capable of making good film and 

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television and they just had to 
figure out how to put them on 

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the Internet and in a way for 
people to watch them like 

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Netflix is technological 
advantage. 

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Has waned considerably over the 
last many years, Years. 

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This is where I, you know, I 
defer to the car experts on 

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this. 
I it seems like Tesla has more 

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of a real technological 
advantage. 

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But similarly, you just have to 
give sort of the mainstream. 

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Automakers a chance to figure 
out how to make electric 

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vehicles and all of a sudden it 
maybe makes less sense that 

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Tesla is worth more than all of 
them put together, right and 

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Michael burry the you know short
seller known from the big short 

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tweeted what had come for 
Netflix would come for Tesla you

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know competition. 
Yeah so but let's Talk about the

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specifics of Netflix. 
I mean, yeah, you made the 

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point. 
Russia is some of the reason are

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a big reason that they're losing
subscribers this quarter. 

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But but North America and Europe
are both down on their own, 

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right? 
And that's being made up for by 

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growth in Asia. 
So there is like a real issue 

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here that they're losing 
subscribers. 

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You think that's competition is 
you know Disney plus Etc is sort

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of the meat the main Explanation
there in the u.s. probably a 

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combination of just Market 
saturation. 

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It already has, you know, they 
not they no longer break out the

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us because it's US and Canada 
together but they have in the 

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ballpark of sine of 70. 75 
million customers at its peak, 

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there were more than 100 million
u.s. pay TV households and so 

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maybe they're there is more to 
grow. 

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I think Netflix, the hoped that 
it would get to 90. 

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But they always ballpark, they'd
be in kind of the 60 to 90 range

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in the US and they're right in 
the middle of that. 

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So that's a big part of it and 
then yeah. 

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Competition, you know, Netflix 
was one of the only games in 

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town for the longest time, it 
was Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu, 

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and Amazon was and continues to 
be a less popular service. 

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And Hulu is always held back by 
the dysfunction of having 

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multiple corporate owners. 
And so, Netflix was Far and Away

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the leader in the Clear Choice 
and now people have a lot of 

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choice. 
And it's not that hard to 

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cancel. 
And Netflix also keeps raising 

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prices, and I think there's sort
of a limit you reach, you know, 

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Netflix used To be one of its 
main selling points was that you

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could kind of get the TV 
experience, but it was more 

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convenient to use and it was a 
lot cheaper. 

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And all of a sudden it looks of 
the different streaming 

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services. 
Like one of the more expensive 

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ones especially if there aren't 
shows that you're interested in 

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watching. 
I'm curious about the internal 

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thinking in Netflix. 
Over the course of the last 

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couple of years because, you 
know, you talked about signaling

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to the street that you were 
going to get to whatever 90 

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million pay TV households. 
As a potential goal, it seemed 

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clear to me a Of years ago that 
wasn't going to be the case, 

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right? 
I mean they were leveling off 

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pretty considerably in North 
America over the last few years.

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They got a bit of a jolt when 
they sign that deal with 

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Comcast, which got the, you 
know, the bundled with Xfinity 

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which was helpful for a bit but 
it was clear that like that 100 

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million marker was just 
something they weren't going to 

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be getting towards barring, some
sort of, you know, secular 

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change in the industry. 
I mean, how long do you think 

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people within Netflix at 
whatever level? 

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But certainly at the higher 
levels we're starting to realize

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As that at least within North 
America and Europe, can either 

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more mature markets, that they 
were headed towards this wall, 

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that they were careening towards
it. 

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And I know we can get maybe into
the pandemic and what that did 

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of their business in a second. 
But just within like their 

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expectations of this, you know, 
eventual bloody day, what a-what

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was there. 
I mean, were they shocked with a

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surprise to the seemed 
inevitable? 

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Like, where were they I'd say 
prior to this past week 

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Executives have up and down 
Netflix, including at the 

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highest reaches, or always very 
consistent. 

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Believing that their wild growth
was clearly slowing. 

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That there was still growth. 
Anytime I would ask about growth

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moderating and US and Canada or 
to them hitting a point of 

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saturation. 
They would say, well, I know 

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that people love to talk about 
this but we're still growing 

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kind of 325 million customers a 
year and as long as even if 

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they're, you know, the pace of 
growth has slowed if we keep 

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doing that, you know, we'll get 
to, you know, we'll get to the 

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numbers that we need to. 
I obviously had a hard time with

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the folks who said that but it 
was very consistent messaging. 

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I would say. 
With among everyone, you know, 

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after this week, there's at 
least a something of a 

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recognition that, that they need
to do more. 

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That's clearly why they're 
there. 

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Now, talking about a cheaper 
ad-supported service, it's 

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something that they always said 
that they didn't want to do and 

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as, you know, and, and their 
main intention out for do 

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advertising. 
Yeah. 

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It's one of those things, it's 
not like, and then, if all, if 

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all goes, well, we're gonna 
introduce the ad-supported tear,

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it's like no one know what to 
tell her family. 

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They've done that at work at 
time. 

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And I, your His crate. 
It is a big reversal for 

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neckflix to all of a sudden 
started saying advertise, right?

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I mean that's part of the signal
here that there's a five-alarm 

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fire, they've been so resistant 
to anything related to 

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advertising over the years, 
right? 

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Or was there any hint that they 
were going to make this 

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reversal? 
There were hints in the recent 

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and I'd say in the last month or
two. 

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You know, I had a meeting with a
with a pretty senior person. 

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There about a month and a half 
ago who used some language that 

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that led me to To believe that 
their position was changing 

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which was then repeated by the 
the CFO at at a benefit public 

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event, I was one of those 
investor conferences. 

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There, the two phrases were were
not religious about advertising 

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and then I forget what the other
one was but they were both. 

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I think we've never say, never 
right? 

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00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:18,700
Yeah. 
And Never Say Never Never Say 

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Never And so for this is we're 
spending way too much time 

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thinking about one company or 
reporting on when company comes 

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in handy because like you hear 
that and you're like that. 

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Though it's a minor change is is
actually like pretty much yeah. 

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So it did feel like they were 
going in that direction the the 

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fact them doing it so quickly 
and by doing it really just 

227
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saying that they're going to do 
it. 

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I think did catch a lot of 
people off guard, you know, I 

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00:11:42,600 --> 00:11:46,100
spoke with I don't know half a 
dozen employees this past week. 

230
00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:48,100
Who had no idea that was coming.
I read. 

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00:11:48,100 --> 00:11:50,800
I think it was actually in the 
information which historically 

232
00:11:50,800 --> 00:11:54,700
unreliable media coverage that, 
put that to the side made. 

233
00:11:54,700 --> 00:11:57,600
It sound like this might have 
been almost inaudible that Reed 

234
00:11:57,600 --> 00:11:59,300
Hastings. 
Called in the middle of the 

235
00:11:59,300 --> 00:12:01,100
earnings call. 
Like I didn't listen to it, of 

236
00:12:01,108 --> 00:12:04,100
course, but it sounded like he 
interrupted someone in the midst

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of answering a question. 
He was like you know and also 

238
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we're thinking about advertising
the next two years. 

239
00:12:08,800 --> 00:12:12,400
Which I don't know how you know 
if truly off-the-cuff. 

240
00:12:12,400 --> 00:12:14,800
It was for him to you know, see 
the stock market you know, see 

241
00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,700
the post market trading just 
going in that direction and like

242
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what we got to do something and 
then you know you break in case 

243
00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:23,500
of emergency and throw out that 
you know, that line is that 

244
00:12:23,500 --> 00:12:24,900
right? 
I mean it's good. 

245
00:12:24,900 --> 00:12:27,400
It truly have been something 
that was like in the In the Heat

246
00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,100
of the pan. 
Of the moment. 

247
00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:33,100
Reed was like fuck is ADS. 
I don't know the answer to that 

248
00:12:33,100 --> 00:12:38,300
but I think your your former 
colleague Jessica and I got sort

249
00:12:38,300 --> 00:12:41,800
of had a similar feeling both 
watching it and talking to 

250
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,900
people that it felt like, you 
know, there was a there was, 

251
00:12:45,200 --> 00:12:47,600
they did a press. 
Obviously talked about this 

252
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question in a prep call. 
They knew it was going to come 

253
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up, it comes up all the time. 
Their Executives had made some 

254
00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:56,600
noise about it. 
It felt like Reed Hastings said 

255
00:12:56,600 --> 00:12:59,800
a bit more than maybe they were.
Planning to say which you get to

256
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:03,100
do when you're the co-founder 
and co-ceo and executive 

257
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:06,000
chairman but I, you know, I 
haven't done enough reporting to

258
00:13:06,000 --> 00:13:08,300
really know what was happening 
there, right? 

259
00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:10,600
And I look, you can also walk 
things back a little bit. 

260
00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:14,100
I all of us are familiar with 
reporters of CEO saying things 

261
00:13:14,100 --> 00:13:17,300
and US blowing it up into a big 
story and then like calms team's

262
00:13:17,300 --> 00:13:20,600
coming out the next day and say 
I'm like well you know the 

263
00:13:20,600 --> 00:13:23,300
context of that back none 
understand we're doing it in a 

264
00:13:23,308 --> 00:13:26,200
week or in a year or two like 
you're either doing it or you're

265
00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,600
not right? 
I said doing not considering It 

266
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,000
was that was the active verb 
there. 

267
00:13:30,000 --> 00:13:32,300
I'd have to. 
I'd have to look at the exact 

268
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:35,300
language, but that was it didn't
feel like something you're 

269
00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:37,500
walking back. 
Let's put it like this, if it 

270
00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:39,600
was considering that probably 
would have been the big 

271
00:13:39,600 --> 00:13:41,600
messaging the day after the 
event, right? 

272
00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:44,400
It would have been, like, listen
In the Heat of the Moment, you 

273
00:13:44,400 --> 00:13:46,900
know, someone walked into Reed's
room and his guest room, where 

274
00:13:46,900 --> 00:13:49,400
he does his calls. 
And you know, that's that's 

275
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,600
really what he meant. 
And and you know, let's let's 

276
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:53,600
not get ahead of ourselves here.
I mean, clearly seems like 

277
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:55,300
they're doing. 
I don't think they're, it 

278
00:13:55,300 --> 00:13:58,100
doesn't seem like they're trying
to walk it back, right? 

279
00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:01,600
It's a huge thing to even float.
You don't put the genie back in 

280
00:14:01,600 --> 00:14:05,000
the bottle or whatever weird 
stock market expression. 

281
00:14:05,000 --> 00:14:06,800
They would be especially because
people have been speculating 

282
00:14:06,800 --> 00:14:08,500
about Netflix doing this for 
years. 

283
00:14:08,600 --> 00:14:10,700
Yeah, and Disney's doing it too.
Right. 

284
00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:12,800
So we're basically reaching a 
point where all these streaming 

285
00:14:12,800 --> 00:14:16,300
services have their expensive 
subscription tear and the 

286
00:14:16,300 --> 00:14:18,700
cheaper ad-based here to like 
keep juicing the numbers right. 

287
00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:21,700
Yeah it's pretty much just Apple
that doesn't and Amazon doesn't 

288
00:14:21,700 --> 00:14:27,200
in Prime but they do have the I 
am DPT IMDb TV now since 

289
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:31,200
rechristened free And who knows 
what the name will be in, in to 

290
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:33,800
you, by the way. 
I mean, all of these add 

291
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:36,500
products on these streaming 
services are horrendous. 

292
00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:38,800
I don't know if you've ever 
watched any of these ad-based 

293
00:14:38,800 --> 00:14:41,800
tears, I mean I've watched II 
knew on Hulu and you just it's 

294
00:14:41,800 --> 00:14:44,900
so many ads and you get the same
ad over and over again, the low 

295
00:14:44,900 --> 00:14:47,700
quality ads to, I mean, like 
IMDb TV, right? 

296
00:14:47,700 --> 00:14:50,100
Which is net, which is Amazon, 
which is one of the largest 

297
00:14:50,100 --> 00:14:51,700
digital ad companies in the 
world. 

298
00:14:51,900 --> 00:14:58,400
The number of like, you know, 
pay College ads or repeat it Ads

299
00:14:58,400 --> 00:15:01,100
or just it's just amazing that 
even though these are the 

300
00:15:01,100 --> 00:15:04,400
biggest ad companies out there 
have not like developed a really

301
00:15:04,400 --> 00:15:07,100
shitty product, which I imagine 
must be for Netflix, which is 

302
00:15:07,100 --> 00:15:09,000
coming into it from a standing 
start, right? 

303
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:10,900
They don't have an ads team, 
they don't have the 

304
00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,800
relationships to build that kind
of a product and not have it 

305
00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,200
completely screw up. 
What they consider a premium 

306
00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,400
product is going to be 
nightmarish for them. 

307
00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,100
I imagine it was very 
interesting or telling to me 

308
00:15:21,100 --> 00:15:24,000
that in that answer, that we 
referenced at Reed Hastings, 

309
00:15:24,000 --> 00:15:26,000
gave he referred to the 
competition. 

310
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:28,100
It would it's working for them. 
So we might as well do. 

311
00:15:28,200 --> 00:15:31,300
It which is just not 
historically the net right way 

312
00:15:31,300 --> 00:15:34,000
of going about things. 
Like Netflix is always we're 

313
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:36,300
going to do it our own way and 
yeah everybody says this other 

314
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:40,200
thing is better but we know more
and so it does speak to the head

315
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,100
of this moment where the company
is under. 

316
00:15:42,100 --> 00:15:44,800
A lot of pressure, I want to ask
a little bit about the 

317
00:15:44,800 --> 00:15:47,500
competition. 
I saw that your buddy, Matt Bell

318
00:15:47,500 --> 00:15:50,800
any had a piece saying that 
there's this like orgy of 

319
00:15:50,800 --> 00:15:53,700
schadenfreude coursing through 
the industry right now, which by

320
00:15:53,700 --> 00:15:57,100
the way, disgusting image. 
And once I get it right, I mean 

321
00:15:57,100 --> 00:15:59,900
like this is a company that 
Comes in there that disrupts, 

322
00:15:59,900 --> 00:16:02,600
you know, the very sacred and 
profitable models of the Cable 

323
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:04,700
Bundle. 
And it probably unduly 

324
00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:08,000
accelerates the decline of the 
theatrical industry. 

325
00:16:08,000 --> 00:16:11,400
And they're paying, you know, 
Nan Market rates for content and

326
00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,200
they're poaching. 
All of their talent and the 

327
00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:16,800
company's fucking led by a guy 
with David Lynch hair who's a 

328
00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:20,400
math genius and you know, Coke 
creatively led by a guy who 

329
00:16:20,400 --> 00:16:22,300
looks like he's constantly 
chaperoning like the Sadie 

330
00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:26,000
Hawkins dance. 
But at the same time, like these

331
00:16:26,400 --> 00:16:30,500
companies, like you can't Enjoy 
the, you know, if you're, if 

332
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:33,100
you're a competitor, if you're a
Disney or Warner media, you 

333
00:16:33,100 --> 00:16:36,100
can't enjoy the Netflix 
situation for all that much 

334
00:16:36,100 --> 00:16:40,200
longer, because if they're 
capping out at what, is it, 220 

335
00:16:40,200 --> 00:16:43,200
million or so if that ends up 
being the global Peak, that is 

336
00:16:43,200 --> 00:16:45,200
bad. 
Fucking news for all of these 

337
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,000
companies, right? 
I mean, Disney's whole like, you

338
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,900
know, Bob iger's, magical trick 
that he pulled off and getting 

339
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,100
Disney revalued. 
A couple years back was 

340
00:16:53,100 --> 00:16:56,000
predicated on the belief that 
they're going to get to why, I 

341
00:16:56,008 --> 00:16:58,000
guess now it's changed with JPEG
but it's like more than that. 

342
00:16:58,100 --> 00:16:59,700
Right. 
Like, they, their minimum 

343
00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:02,900
Global. 
They forecasts like 240 or 

344
00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:07,200
something and by, by by 2024. 
If yeah, that's not that long 

345
00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:10,599
for now, and they're not that 
much more sophisticated 

346
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:13,200
streaming. 
Penetration is like, 30%, right?

347
00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:16,099
I was looking through the 
Netflix, my making that payment 

348
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:18,300
ball, dude. 
It depends on what you consider 

349
00:17:18,300 --> 00:17:21,400
the market, right? 
So are you measuring against 

350
00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,599
anybody with a mobile phone? 
Are you measuring against 

351
00:17:24,599 --> 00:17:26,700
anybody with connection to fixed
Broadband? 

352
00:17:26,700 --> 00:17:29,400
Are you measuring against? 
TV households World. 

353
00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:32,200
ATV, how like, pay TV households
worldwide? 

354
00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:36,600
I think is in the like around. 
I'm gonna be off but let's say 

355
00:17:36,600 --> 00:17:39,900
it's around 700 million, right? 
Which means that, yes, Netflix 

356
00:17:39,900 --> 00:17:42,700
is, is at about 30, 35? 
I mean, this shows how 

357
00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:45,100
disconnected I am from America 
though. 

358
00:17:45,100 --> 00:17:47,800
I don't think my father watches 
streaming TV, but it's hard for 

359
00:17:47,800 --> 00:17:51,800
me to imagine like the 
households just watching like 

360
00:17:51,800 --> 00:17:55,000
regular cable and not using 
streaming it. 

361
00:17:55,100 --> 00:17:57,400
It feels like they're totally 
different get out there in 

362
00:17:57,408 --> 00:18:00,400
America. 
I mean but don't I mean, doesn't

363
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,600
everybody still thinks streaming
is going to win out. 

364
00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:06,600
I mean it's a superior product 
and that sort of long-term is 

365
00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:11,300
not Zero Sum so I'll start with 
the competition and 

366
00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:14,900
schadenfreude which is I think 
there's there's it depends on 

367
00:18:14,900 --> 00:18:17,200
who you talk to. 
There is no question that 

368
00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:20,900
there's a large reservoir of 
resentment specifically in 

369
00:18:20,900 --> 00:18:24,500
Hollywood for Netflix because 
it's success prompted. 

370
00:18:24,500 --> 00:18:27,800
All these companies to merge 
restructure. 

371
00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:30,500
It led Tell, you know, thousands
of people losing their jobs. 

372
00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:33,400
It led to everybody, you know, 
having to change the way that 

373
00:18:33,400 --> 00:18:35,000
they did business. 
You've got, especially on the 

374
00:18:35,008 --> 00:18:36,500
movie side. 
You have all these people who 

375
00:18:36,500 --> 00:18:38,800
are very upset concerned about 
the future of the movie 

376
00:18:38,800 --> 00:18:41,100
business, to future of movie 
theaters future of going to see 

377
00:18:41,100 --> 00:18:44,300
movies in theaters, and a lot of
them blame Netflix for that and 

378
00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:47,100
they had to pay creators more 
God forbid. 

379
00:18:47,100 --> 00:18:49,800
Yeah. 
But I do think aspects at the, 

380
00:18:49,800 --> 00:18:53,700
you know, the tops of a lot of 
these companies there to Tom's 

381
00:18:53,700 --> 00:18:57,100
point, they're not really 
celebrating because this poses a

382
00:18:57,100 --> 00:18:59,100
great danger for them. 
You know, they have had a 

383
00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:04,000
re-engineer their companies to 
copy Netflix or really kind of 

384
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,500
write off of its coattails. 
And if you're going to Peak out 

385
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,200
at 220 million, you're going to,
you know, all these companies 

386
00:19:09,200 --> 00:19:12,100
are eventually going to run into
some of the same problems that 

387
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:14,500
Netflix has and that's pretty 
scary for them. 

388
00:19:14,700 --> 00:19:17,700
So what we, so what I mean. 
So this is now whatever week 

389
00:19:17,700 --> 00:19:20,200
later or will be by the time 
this episode comes out. 

390
00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,400
I mean what what moves did they 
take, how do they signal to Wall

391
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,700
Street to their employees? 
That like hey look whatever 

392
00:19:25,700 --> 00:19:28,000
disease is afflicting Netflix. 
That's not us. 

393
00:19:28,300 --> 00:19:31,600
We don't have that problem of 
peeking well for one because 

394
00:19:31,600 --> 00:19:34,200
they're starting from a smaller 
base and they're still expanding

395
00:19:34,200 --> 00:19:36,300
worldwide. 
They're still growing so Atrium 

396
00:19:36,300 --> 00:19:40,700
acts reported that it R 8T 
reported HP Max added 3 million 

397
00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,900
subscribers I think in the most 
recent quarter I've heard some 

398
00:19:43,900 --> 00:19:46,500
pretty good things about Disney 
in the most recent quarter. 

399
00:19:46,500 --> 00:19:50,200
So if those companies continue 
to grow they're going to at 

400
00:19:50,200 --> 00:19:53,300
least for now be able to sort of
forced all the Doom. 

401
00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,300
The other thing that they can 
say to kind of to the the other 

402
00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:57,700
question that Eric asked is 
that. 

403
00:19:57,700 --> 00:20:00,600
Yeah, the The, the streaming 
Market continues to grow the 

404
00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,900
number of people paying for a 
streaming service, or the number

405
00:20:02,900 --> 00:20:06,200
of subscriptions is going up. 
The amount of time. 

406
00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:08,600
People are spending watching 
streaming relative to cable is 

407
00:20:08,600 --> 00:20:12,200
going up, but there hasn't been 
a complete cannibalization and 

408
00:20:12,200 --> 00:20:15,900
there might not be because you 
still have so much programming, 

409
00:20:15,900 --> 00:20:18,300
specifically, news and Sport 
sort of tied up in the 

410
00:20:18,308 --> 00:20:21,200
traditional TV business, right? 
All right. 

411
00:20:21,300 --> 00:20:26,800
And I want to talk about this 
idea that account sharing is all

412
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:30,200
of a sudden issue. 
This is Total like we need, we 

413
00:20:30,200 --> 00:20:32,400
need something, right? 
We've been saving this one. 

414
00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:34,800
I mean, it's, it's amazing that 
they're blowing. 

415
00:20:34,800 --> 00:20:38,500
Both like we might do 
advertising and account sharing 

416
00:20:38,500 --> 00:20:41,700
in the same. 
Call to me that underlines how 

417
00:20:41,900 --> 00:20:45,400
terrible this earnings was 
because those seem like two 

418
00:20:45,400 --> 00:20:47,500
bullets. 
So you'd pull out when you're 

419
00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:49,300
really in trouble. 
I mean it's not like they didn't

420
00:20:49,300 --> 00:20:51,300
know that account sharing was 
going on. 

421
00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:54,800
I mean, do you think this is 
just like a sort of thing that 

422
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,000
they're waiting for on a rainy 
day to say? 

423
00:20:57,000 --> 00:21:01,000
Okay, we can we can crack down 
on this to improve the business.

424
00:21:01,000 --> 00:21:05,400
Yeah, they've been. 
So they've said in the past four

425
00:21:05,400 --> 00:21:07,900
years that there was a lot of 
account sharing when they were 

426
00:21:07,900 --> 00:21:10,800
growing really quickly, they 
said they didn't care so much 

427
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:13,400
because exposing more people to 
the service was head of a net 

428
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:15,600
positive. 
It was basically like marketing,

429
00:21:16,000 --> 00:21:19,800
I'd say about three years ago, 
they started to take take 

430
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:22,000
cracking down on password 
sharing more seriously. 

431
00:21:22,000 --> 00:21:24,800
You know, I had meetings with 
people and ahead of senior 

432
00:21:24,800 --> 00:21:26,900
people at the company where they
walk me through some of the 

433
00:21:26,900 --> 00:21:29,700
strategies they were, The 
challenge that they've had is 

434
00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:32,800
it's just it's really hard to 
curb password sharing because 

435
00:21:33,100 --> 00:21:35,600
you don't want to alienate your 
customers, right? 

436
00:21:35,600 --> 00:21:38,900
So you don't want to actually 
cancel people's subscriptions or

437
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:41,800
prevent them from using it 
because that's bad for you, you 

438
00:21:41,808 --> 00:21:43,400
know, I mean you're going to 
have you're going to have a lot 

439
00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,900
of people upset with you. 
And so what are the ways that 

440
00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:49,100
you can sort of subtly nudge 
people to start paying and 

441
00:21:49,100 --> 00:21:51,600
they've tried some stuff so far?
I don't think it's worked that. 

442
00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,200
Well, they're now doing this new
test in Latin America, where the

443
00:21:55,200 --> 00:21:58,500
kind of new strategy is just to 
get someone who's clearly 

444
00:21:58,500 --> 00:22:00,400
sharing to pay a little bit 
extra. 

445
00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:02,700
They don't have to set up their 
own account, just maybe you pay,

446
00:22:02,800 --> 00:22:05,600
you know, if you're a if you're 
the your pet, you're using your 

447
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,000
parents but you don't live with 
them, maybe you pay three 

448
00:22:08,000 --> 00:22:10,400
dollars extra a month. 
It remains to be seen if any of 

449
00:22:10,400 --> 00:22:14,300
this will work, it doesn't seem 
very like, rational markets to 

450
00:22:14,300 --> 00:22:16,100
me. 
Like to me, it would seem like 

451
00:22:16,100 --> 00:22:19,400
customers know that part of 
buying Netflix is that you have 

452
00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:22,200
this service that you can give 
to your friends. 

453
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:25,300
Like that's part of what you're 
subscribing for any idea that 

454
00:22:25,300 --> 00:22:29,200
they can just take that away and
I don't, Want some of them want 

455
00:22:29,200 --> 00:22:30,600
to unsubscribe. 
Seems crazy me. 

456
00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:32,600
It's, it's a perk. 
It's an Express. 

457
00:22:32,900 --> 00:22:36,100
Understood perk of yes. 
Dreaming where, I mean, like 

458
00:22:36,100 --> 00:22:38,900
Netflix definitely played into 
that for a long time, I think 

459
00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:41,300
they're even tweets still up 
there showing them talking about

460
00:22:41,300 --> 00:22:44,200
how, you know, love is letting 
someone use your Netflix account

461
00:22:44,200 --> 00:22:46,600
and I, by the way, have been 
enjoying your Hulu account. 

462
00:22:47,100 --> 00:22:49,800
It's certainly a core part of 
good relationship but like, 

463
00:22:49,800 --> 00:22:53,700
right, it's a don't shave on the
podcast, what's one thing? 

464
00:22:53,800 --> 00:22:57,200
But I also think that like these
things just evolved over time 

465
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,900
and like I remember with With, 
you know, Adobe and Photoshop. 

466
00:22:59,900 --> 00:23:01,500
They were like use it. 
You know, used to be pretty 

467
00:23:01,500 --> 00:23:04,200
relaxed about piracy and the 
fact that there were so many 

468
00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,800
young people that were just 
fairly easily downloading these 

469
00:23:06,800 --> 00:23:09,300
things, but it changes over time
and you have all. 

470
00:23:09,300 --> 00:23:12,400
But I don't think like the idea 
of making a, you know, I like, I

471
00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:14,600
buy more the issue that it's 
just technologically, 

472
00:23:14,600 --> 00:23:17,800
complicated to force people to a
rather than like it undercuts 

473
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:20,800
the core offering of the service
by saying everyone. 

474
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,000
And anyone can use someone's 
past what's also confusing. 

475
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:26,600
I pay for the Ultra Premium, 
whatever Netflix is and you get 

476
00:23:26,600 --> 00:23:29,200
as part of that. 
More devices. 

477
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,100
So isn't that I'm confused, 
isn't that partially connected 

478
00:23:33,100 --> 00:23:35,600
into account share? 
And it's like, yeah, my sister 

479
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,300
or whoever uses my Netflix so I 
bought the more premium one. 

480
00:23:39,300 --> 00:23:42,100
So I have more devices at the 
same time, like is that not 

481
00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:45,000
already addressing the count 
sharing, why don't I mean you, 

482
00:23:45,000 --> 00:23:48,100
you tell me Lucas but like I 
imagine like that's one portion 

483
00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:50,600
of the user base that they maybe
are less concerned about, I 

484
00:23:50,608 --> 00:23:53,100
think it's more, the people that
are paying at the lowest tier 

485
00:23:53,700 --> 00:23:55,900
that they're getting, you know, 
the least value from that are 

486
00:23:55,908 --> 00:23:59,300
sharing those accounts to, you 
know, Large numbers of people. 

487
00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,800
Yeah, and I look, they're 
definitely making noise about it

488
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:05,900
now because they're in a tricky 
spot and they want to signal 

489
00:24:05,900 --> 00:24:07,600
that they could. 
There's plenty of growth that 

490
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:10,300
they can get their also making 
noise about it now, because 

491
00:24:10,300 --> 00:24:14,300
they've gotten so big that, you 
know, what was once sort of a 

492
00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:17,600
tear point of per core for them?
Marketing is now a bit of a 

493
00:24:17,608 --> 00:24:20,200
problem because, you know, if 
you believe their numbers, there

494
00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,100
are 100 million households that 
are, you know, using Netflix and

495
00:24:23,100 --> 00:24:25,200
not paying for it. 
And if they can even convert, 

496
00:24:25,400 --> 00:24:27,700
you know, 20 or 30 million of 
those to pay a little bit of 

497
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:28,900
money. 
A lot for them. 

498
00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,300
It's a really tricky balance 
that they have to strike. 

499
00:24:31,300 --> 00:24:34,800
I think both technologically in 
terms of how they sort of nudge 

500
00:24:34,800 --> 00:24:36,800
people to do it. 
And I think you're right, Eric 

501
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,500
about kind of the perception of 
the company. 

502
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,100
And this is the tricky thing 
when you get really big is, you 

503
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:46,100
know, Netflix was this company 
that everybody adored because it

504
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:48,800
had no, it made it super easy to
watch TV at home and they made 

505
00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:52,500
all these fun provocative shows 
and it's definitely entering. 

506
00:24:52,500 --> 00:24:55,100
And I think has been for a while
this phase where it's a little 

507
00:24:55,100 --> 00:24:59,000
bit more of just, it's a massive
Corporation and People's kind of

508
00:24:59,200 --> 00:25:03,000
positive association with it is 
being challenged a bit and 

509
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:05,200
cracking down on 1password 
sharing. 

510
00:25:05,300 --> 00:25:07,300
And the way that they've 
messaged around it, I think 

511
00:25:07,300 --> 00:25:09,600
doesn't help either because you 
have a lot of people who think 

512
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,400
that they're suddenly going to 
get cut off tomorrow. 

513
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:13,900
And that's not what's going to 
happen. 

514
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,900
I did want to ask, I guess, sort
of about the Netflix brand or 

515
00:25:19,100 --> 00:25:22,300
you know, if we're in this world
where Netflix can't really say, 

516
00:25:22,300 --> 00:25:24,200
okay, we're just going to be the
big one. 

517
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:29,800
And instead, it's competing more
as a peer against Disney Hulu 

518
00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:32,400
Apple, Amazon. 
Obviously, they're all different

519
00:25:32,400 --> 00:25:36,400
size HBO Max. 
I mean, is Netflix going to have

520
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:39,100
more of like a brand? 
Like I don't know what I 

521
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:43,500
associate Netflix with. 
Like where is Disney is able to 

522
00:25:43,500 --> 00:25:45,400
say somehow? 
I mean this is what's amazing 

523
00:25:45,400 --> 00:25:49,200
about Disney but Disney's able 
to be enormous and still have 

524
00:25:49,200 --> 00:25:52,700
these iconic Brands where you 
understand what Disney is about 

525
00:25:52,700 --> 00:25:55,700
and why you might subscribe. 
Like, do you see Netflix moving 

526
00:25:55,700 --> 00:26:00,500
in terms of the actual sort of 
Content to any sort of thematic 

527
00:26:00,700 --> 00:26:02,600
bundling. 
So people understand, do you? 

528
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,800
Netflix is about this or, or do 
they just want to be the sort of

529
00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,700
vague brand? 
That's like, everything for 

530
00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:13,000
everybody will teach you. 
Your first point, I do think 

531
00:26:13,000 --> 00:26:14,300
it's important to put into 
context. 

532
00:26:14,300 --> 00:26:18,200
That Netflix is still magnitudes
bigger than everyone else. 

533
00:26:18,200 --> 00:26:20,600
I mean, you know, just in terms 
of subscribers, Netflix is 

534
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,200
bigger than Disney plus an HBO 
Max put together. 

535
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,200
Yeah. 
And so, the amount of viewership

536
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:27,300
that it generates the amount of 
time people spend, it still 

537
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,700
dwarfs the Competition, but it 
does have. 

538
00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:35,100
It does come at come at this, 
from a disadvantage in that, it 

539
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:39,600
doesn't have a long Legacy of 
making shows and owning things 

540
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,200
that people love. 
You know, Bob Iger bought a lot 

541
00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:45,100
of the great brands that now 
constitute that kind of that 

542
00:26:45,100 --> 00:26:48,400
Disney offering with Marvel 
Stars Star Wars and Pixar before

543
00:26:48,400 --> 00:26:52,100
Netflix had a streaming service.
And so Netflix would sure would 

544
00:26:52,100 --> 00:26:54,200
love to be able to have its own 
Marvel. 

545
00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,000
It's not easy. 
Every, every studio in Hollywood

546
00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,300
wants to have their own Marvel. 
They haven't been able to do it,

547
00:26:59,300 --> 00:27:01,500
but it doesn't have many Brands 
like that, right? 

548
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:03,700
I mean, it's name. 
Yeah, I mean, this has been a 

549
00:27:03,708 --> 00:27:07,800
debate that I've heard a lot 
between kind of current and 

550
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,600
former Netflix. 
People is like, should they 

551
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:13,900
because I think early on, they 
kind of identified these these 

552
00:27:13,900 --> 00:27:18,200
different niches and kind of 
soup served them. 

553
00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:21,400
And there are some people who 
wish that Netflix just like took

554
00:27:21,400 --> 00:27:23,800
that and owned it. 
But I think as Netflix got 

555
00:27:23,800 --> 00:27:25,800
bigger and bigger and bigger. 
Oh, just like, well, let's do 

556
00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:26,500
this. 
And let's do this. 

557
00:27:26,500 --> 00:27:27,900
And let's do this. 
And let's just replicate 

558
00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:30,800
everything. 
You could find in TV and, and 

559
00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,300
that has, I think deluded the 
brand a bit because you're not 

560
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:37,900
sure there's this constant 
dialogue right about like, is 

561
00:27:38,100 --> 00:27:40,100
quality on Netflix there. 
A lot of people who think that 

562
00:27:40,100 --> 00:27:42,800
Netflix doesn't make good shows 
anymore and I get why they say 

563
00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,200
that I even as a consumer 
probably blind is the greatest 

564
00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:47,500
show of all time. 
What do you do? 

565
00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:49,700
Yeah. 
Well, but see that's that's sort

566
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:51,900
of what you're getting at. 
Right, is all these, all these 

567
00:27:51,900 --> 00:27:54,900
kind of dating shows. 
They were hugely popular are not

568
00:27:54,900 --> 00:27:58,500
anyone's definition of quality, 
but I was at a I was at a You 

569
00:27:58,500 --> 00:28:00,100
know, a birthday party on Friday
night. 

570
00:28:00,108 --> 00:28:03,900
And someone was telling me all 
about how they think the quality

571
00:28:03,900 --> 00:28:06,800
of Netflix has gone way down. 
And then that proceed or that 

572
00:28:06,800 --> 00:28:10,100
precipitated like a 10-minute 
conversation between people 

573
00:28:10,100 --> 00:28:11,600
about how much they love the 
ultimatum. 

574
00:28:11,600 --> 00:28:13,500
Right? 
And so you can't you can't have 

575
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:15,900
it both ways. 
And, and Netflix has to figure 

576
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:18,600
out sort of the right balance of
programming where they're sort 

577
00:28:18,600 --> 00:28:23,300
of satisfying that big audience 
while also and maintaining this 

578
00:28:23,300 --> 00:28:25,700
perception, that you can find 
really good programming there 

579
00:28:25,700 --> 00:28:28,200
because there is some of it, 
maybe not at the same. 

580
00:28:28,300 --> 00:28:31,000
Same rate as HBO or maybe you 
don't feel it as much because 

581
00:28:31,000 --> 00:28:33,900
they drop everything at once. 
But there's still a lot of stuff

582
00:28:33,900 --> 00:28:37,200
on Netflix to watch it sort of 
two parts to that to keep coming

583
00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,400
to mind. 
One is like, let's not pretend 

584
00:28:39,400 --> 00:28:43,100
here that have Netflix had run 
Severance, or, I don't know, the

585
00:28:43,100 --> 00:28:46,200
undoing or some, you know, of 
the White Lotus or something 

586
00:28:46,200 --> 00:28:48,500
that they suddenly would have 
had three million more subs 

587
00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:51,400
gained during the quarter. 
You know, obviously it would be 

588
00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,000
nice temperature for Netflix to 
have those kind of hit, water 

589
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:55,500
cooler, whatever you want to 
call them shows. 

590
00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:58,000
But that we're talking about a 
secular problem here. 

591
00:28:58,000 --> 00:29:01,500
Now, so much that, like, you 
know, they didn't have an 

592
00:29:01,500 --> 00:29:04,800
out-of-the-box enormous hit. 
And the other thing on the IP 

593
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:08,200
side, it's very funny for me to 
hear and I know you're talking 

594
00:29:08,200 --> 00:29:11,200
about just, you know, the 
general populace complaining 

595
00:29:11,200 --> 00:29:13,600
about quality of shows. 
If this is coming from 

596
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:16,600
high-level Executives at rival 
movie studios, why don't you 

597
00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:19,600
guys develop some new IP and not
just keep spinning off? 

598
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:24,000
You know, content that was 
created in the 70s and and 60s, 

599
00:29:24,000 --> 00:29:27,400
and comic books and and Star 
Wars and Pixar, you know, things

600
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:31,000
that you acquired, It's been a 
long time that I can remember 

601
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:32,400
that. 
A completely unique, 

602
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:36,300
out-of-the-box, huge piece of IP
came from anyone these days. 

603
00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:39,900
Well, they have. 
And if it did it, it probably 

604
00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:43,200
came from Netflix. 
I mean the biggest new projects 

605
00:29:43,200 --> 00:29:46,200
that maybe not in the movie 
side, but, you know, the biggest

606
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,200
show of last year with Squid 
game, that's a totally new idea.

607
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:51,800
It's from South Korea, like 
unlike anything that Hollywood 

608
00:29:51,800 --> 00:29:56,200
is churning out or a la casa. 
De papel money, Heist, huge show

609
00:29:56,200 --> 00:29:59,200
from Spain for Netflix, A 
original Ip. 

610
00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:01,600
I think someone will probably 
tell me if that's not true, 

611
00:30:01,600 --> 00:30:03,200
right? 
You know, and then more 

612
00:30:03,200 --> 00:30:05,800
traditional stuff like the 
witcher's video game and Bridget

613
00:30:05,800 --> 00:30:09,100
in is based on some books. 
But at least those are our sort 

614
00:30:09,100 --> 00:30:10,300
of relatively new. 
It's yeah. 

615
00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:13,100
You know, movies that were made 
in the 70s that they're still 

616
00:30:13,100 --> 00:30:15,500
claiming as I go through. 
This is original Ip that we have

617
00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:17,900
it's like no not really. 
You guys are just kind of like 

618
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,400
mining further and further 
something that was made decades 

619
00:30:20,400 --> 00:30:21,800
ago. 
Yeah, to an audience that wants 

620
00:30:21,800 --> 00:30:24,100
it but it wouldn't call it new 
well and that's especially true 

621
00:30:24,100 --> 00:30:26,000
on the movie site and fairness 
on the TV side. 

622
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:29,600
You know, HBO produces a lot of 
Original ideas. 

623
00:30:29,600 --> 00:30:32,500
I think there are, I mean it's 
Disney plus obviously is still 

624
00:30:32,500 --> 00:30:35,300
sort of the Marvel and Star Wars
Factory but that's working so 

625
00:30:35,300 --> 00:30:37,400
well for them. 
You know why deviate who lubed 

626
00:30:37,400 --> 00:30:39,400
also has a lot of new original 
ideas. 

627
00:30:39,600 --> 00:30:43,100
It's on the movie side where you
know, we've just settled into if

628
00:30:43,100 --> 00:30:45,500
it's not a pre branded 
franchise, we have a hard time 

629
00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:48,300
but the movie stuff is also 
driving the TV stuff, right? 

630
00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:50,700
I mean with Disney plus? 
It seems like the most attention

631
00:30:50,700 --> 00:30:53,700
they get her from serialized 
versions of their movie 

632
00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:56,300
properties. 
So it's sort of like all kind of

633
00:30:56,300 --> 00:30:58,000
one in the same thing when it 
comes to, you know. 

634
00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,900
What original Ip Drive Subs. 
As far as that goes. 

635
00:31:00,900 --> 00:31:04,100
Yeah, we're about to talk about 
CNN plus and B, as we can always

636
00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:05,900
go back and forth and this is 
the topic. 

637
00:31:05,900 --> 00:31:08,700
Everybody wants to hear about. 
But before that, I wanted to ask

638
00:31:08,700 --> 00:31:12,200
one question, sort of out of 
left field, but just because 

639
00:31:12,200 --> 00:31:16,500
we're talking about Disney and 
Marvel, I'm curious like this 

640
00:31:16,500 --> 00:31:22,100
sort of Marvel sort of cheaply, 
produced shows or content, you 

641
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,700
know just the lower budget 
Marvel at the moment. 

642
00:31:24,700 --> 00:31:28,000
Like is that a realization that 
like the Marvel Brand? 

643
00:31:28,700 --> 00:31:30,700
They need to like squeeze 
everything out of it while they 

644
00:31:30,700 --> 00:31:34,700
can like it feels like I guess 
if I were Disney and trying to 

645
00:31:34,700 --> 00:31:38,200
preserve Marvel, like one 
strategy would be like cool 

646
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:40,900
little little. 
Make sure it like has longevity 

647
00:31:41,300 --> 00:31:42,700
and the other would be like 
actually. 

648
00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:44,000
Let's get every dollar out of 
it. 

649
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,000
We can and just like do 
everything until people get sick

650
00:31:48,000 --> 00:31:51,700
of this or or I guess the third 
is just that I'm so disconnected

651
00:31:51,700 --> 00:31:54,200
from reality and everybody loves
Marvel so much that this will 

652
00:31:54,200 --> 00:31:56,600
never never end. 
I don't know if you were to 

653
00:31:57,000 --> 00:32:00,300
what's your view Of sort of how,
they're how they're treating 

654
00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:03,500
sort of the Marvel. 
Marvel in terms of, it's sort of

655
00:32:03,500 --> 00:32:08,900
continued sustainability. 
It's the most popular vein of 

656
00:32:08,900 --> 00:32:11,700
Storytelling in the world. 
And it seems that every time we 

657
00:32:11,700 --> 00:32:14,400
talk about superhero fatigue, 
something else comes along to 

658
00:32:14,400 --> 00:32:16,100
prove to us that we're all 
wrong, you know? 

659
00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,300
The new Spider-Man movie, you'd 
think that we're all a little 

660
00:32:19,300 --> 00:32:21,800
tired of Spider-Man and then it 
goes on to be one of the most 

661
00:32:21,800 --> 00:32:25,300
successful movies of all time. 
Those the the different shows on

662
00:32:25,500 --> 00:32:30,100
Disney plus including kind of 
Vision Loki, they seem very, 

663
00:32:30,100 --> 00:32:32,100
very popular. 
You know, they're not cheap by 

664
00:32:32,100 --> 00:32:33,700
the way. 
Eric, those stars look like a 

665
00:32:33,708 --> 00:32:37,200
turtle's was cheaper. 
Some of them are cheaper than 

666
00:32:37,200 --> 00:32:39,800
the others right there on a 
relative rollout, baby. 

667
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:42,100
But I think they're all pretty 
expensive and Disney. 

668
00:32:42,100 --> 00:32:45,900
Just feels like, you know, it's 
going to keep playing its cards 

669
00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,900
and keep playing to its strength
until someone tells them, they 

670
00:32:48,900 --> 00:32:50,000
can't anymore. 
I'm because they right. 

671
00:32:50,000 --> 00:32:52,600
Look, they re being the wars are
extremely quarters. 

672
00:32:52,700 --> 00:32:54,500
You gotta, you gotta use your 
entire Arsenal. 

673
00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,800
They ran into this with, with 
Star Wars, right? 

674
00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,100
It's like there were, there was 
a A sense that maybe on the 

675
00:32:59,100 --> 00:33:01,400
movie side, there was a little 
bit of fatigue. 

676
00:33:01,400 --> 00:33:04,600
And so they have held off on 
just churning out new Star Wars 

677
00:33:04,600 --> 00:33:08,100
movies, but they had a lot of 
success with the Mandalorian and

678
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:10,000
TV. 
And so now that's turned towards

679
00:33:10,000 --> 00:33:12,200
up, you'll just hate bad ones 
and like good ones. 

680
00:33:12,200 --> 00:33:15,400
And as long as they're good, you
can keep pumping. 

681
00:33:15,500 --> 00:33:18,600
Maybe can I ask one one final 
question on this segment to sort

682
00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,000
of end it? 
Yeah, I mean, going forward 

683
00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,500
cover in this company. 
Lucas, are you now think about 

684
00:33:24,500 --> 00:33:25,800
things like Netflix? 
Yeah. 

685
00:33:25,800 --> 00:33:27,000
Yeah. 
Are you thinking about things 

686
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:29,600
differently at all? 
I mean, It's obviously a new 

687
00:33:29,600 --> 00:33:32,800
era. 
And, you know, I think one 

688
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:34,900
aspect of what exactly this 
company is. 

689
00:33:34,900 --> 00:33:36,700
There's been a lot of stories 
I've written them. 

690
00:33:36,700 --> 00:33:38,500
I'm sure you have a lot of 
people have of like, you know, 

691
00:33:38,500 --> 00:33:40,500
is Netflix moving from a tech 
company to an entertainment 

692
00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:42,300
company. 
And the center of gravity is 

693
00:33:42,300 --> 00:33:46,100
moved from whatever, blows Gatos
to Hollywood and all of that 

694
00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,500
stuff and, you know, we're in a 
position now where people are 

695
00:33:48,500 --> 00:33:51,100
saying that like, oh, Netflix 
missed its numbers because it 

696
00:33:51,108 --> 00:33:53,400
didn't have any big hits. 
Like, oh, that's kind of 

697
00:33:53,408 --> 00:33:55,000
familiar. 
I know what happens when 

698
00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:56,800
entertainment companies don't 
have big hits, they about 

699
00:33:56,800 --> 00:33:58,800
quarter that just sounds But 
you're kind of just an 

700
00:33:58,800 --> 00:34:01,400
entertainment company. 
You're obviously, you get this 

701
00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,500
company very well and the 
sophistication behind it. 

702
00:34:04,500 --> 00:34:06,400
But, do you think about them 
differently at all? 

703
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,000
Now, is this a different way to?
Or at least he'll reader is a 

704
00:34:09,007 --> 00:34:11,199
different way to look at this 
company than the way they may 

705
00:34:11,199 --> 00:34:13,900
have in the past. 
I mean, I felt for a while that 

706
00:34:13,900 --> 00:34:16,300
it was, it was more of an 
entertainment company than a 

707
00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:19,400
tech company. 
You know, as soon as, as soon as

708
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,199
they started spending, you know,
five six times more on 

709
00:34:22,199 --> 00:34:25,199
programming than they did on 
than they do in engineering when

710
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,400
the all the hiring they were 
doing was in l.a. all their 

711
00:34:27,400 --> 00:34:30,100
senior leadership. 
Up either moved to LA or had to 

712
00:34:30,100 --> 00:34:32,800
spend a lot of time there. 
I mean, their CFO left basically

713
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:35,300
because their CFO didn't want to
move or the previous one, didn't

714
00:34:35,300 --> 00:34:37,500
want to move to Los Angeles 
wasn't the only reason but it 

715
00:34:37,500 --> 00:34:41,400
was a major factor and so that 
is not what changes. 

716
00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:46,900
I do think though that we're 
entering a period of kind of a 

717
00:34:46,908 --> 00:34:51,300
new period of perhaps skepticism
about the company and where 

718
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:56,500
there's going to be a lot of you
know, probably a lot of internal

719
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:59,300
unrest and hand-wringing About 
where it's going. 

720
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:01,800
And I think it'll be a pretty 
fertile time actually for 

721
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,900
storytelling about and the 
culture, right? 

722
00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:07,000
Letting can you keep running the
company and that aggressive, you

723
00:35:07,000 --> 00:35:10,300
know, internal criticism, shut 
Sunshine, everything sort of way

724
00:35:10,800 --> 00:35:13,700
that you know if you're not 
exactly the Cock of the Walk, 

725
00:35:13,700 --> 00:35:16,700
might not be that easy to do the
company's gotten really big 

726
00:35:16,700 --> 00:35:22,300
really quickly and it's hard to 
preserve that culture and so I 

727
00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:24,100
think that's that was already a 
problem. 

728
00:35:24,100 --> 00:35:25,700
It was a problem 
internationally, you know, they 

729
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:28,000
had a really hard time. 
Getting people say in Japan. 

730
00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:30,300
And which is has a very 
different kind of corporate 

731
00:35:30,300 --> 00:35:34,100
sensibility to live by this 
Netflix culture, where you you 

732
00:35:34,107 --> 00:35:37,800
weren't going to have it was 
hard to get, say, someone who 

733
00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:41,300
was at a lower position in 
Japan, to be honest and 

734
00:35:41,300 --> 00:35:44,900
criticize, their Superior that 
just was, is kind of very 

735
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:47,800
foreign to that country and you 
had problems like that, play out

736
00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:50,900
all over the world and I also 
think that as there's been this 

737
00:35:50,900 --> 00:35:54,700
very steady influx of Hollywood 
people into Netflix and rising 

738
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:57,900
up, you know, it's hard for it, 
not to just start operating. 

739
00:35:58,100 --> 00:36:00,400
I'm feeling like another 
Hollywood company. 

740
00:36:00,400 --> 00:36:02,100
You know, my sort of take away 
right now, is it? 

741
00:36:02,107 --> 00:36:04,500
Just Netflix? 
Felt like a special place to a 

742
00:36:04,508 --> 00:36:06,600
lot of people for a long time 
and there were good, there was 

743
00:36:06,600 --> 00:36:09,600
good and bad to that. 
And I think now it just feels a 

744
00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:12,500
little bit more normal. 
Like a big company, something 

745
00:36:12,500 --> 00:36:14,700
said about that, we're all, 
we're all just the same in the 

746
00:36:14,700 --> 00:36:17,800
end, it all just kind of like 
dilutes to the mean II know. 

747
00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,800
On the it's like we have two 
more in this like brutal culture

748
00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:23,200
where people get fired and 
they're like, yeah, I deserved 

749
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:25,700
it. 
Like I wasn't my Prime, they got

750
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:27,900
my prime years out of me, and 
then they treated me like trash 

751
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:30,100
Shouldn't the best company in 
the world. 

752
00:36:30,100 --> 00:36:34,300
I mean, I I interesting admire 
it, I am laughing, but it's, 

753
00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,100
it's definitely get those 
conversations with with former 

754
00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:39,600
Netflix people that will talk 
about, you know, the trauma that

755
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,300
they went through dealing with 
the direct criticism and how 

756
00:36:42,300 --> 00:36:43,800
many hours, they worked and all 
of that. 

757
00:36:43,800 --> 00:36:45,900
But they don't speak ill of the 
company. 

758
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:48,900
They don't necessarily need some
do obviously and those stories 

759
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,100
get written in there. 
Really interesting. 

760
00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:52,600
But a lot of people it's just 
like, yeah, fucking insane over 

761
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:54,800
there, but I don't know. 
It seems to work and I like the 

762
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:57,000
work I did over there. 
I mean, is it is amazing? 

763
00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,600
I mean, there's still Will you 
know I saw in this quarterly 

764
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:03,100
earnings they were still talking
about like the fight with 

765
00:37:03,100 --> 00:37:05,700
Blockbuster and stuff. 
I mean just just everything. 

766
00:37:05,700 --> 00:37:08,500
Netflix has been able to do. 
I mean they wear that history on

767
00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:13,400
its sleeve and that that's given
them some protection. 

768
00:37:13,700 --> 00:37:16,600
Certainly in this hard time for 
them. 

769
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,200
But yeah. 
We'll see if that that last. 

770
00:37:19,200 --> 00:37:21,600
Well this is it. 
Yeah I think there's a degree to

771
00:37:21,600 --> 00:37:25,000
which you know, Reed Hastings is
one of the hand of the great 

772
00:37:25,000 --> 00:37:28,200
entrepreneurs of the last 25 
years, shall we say, a few, To 

773
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:32,900
make a list of the 10 best you 
probably be on it somewhere, but

774
00:37:32,900 --> 00:37:34,800
this is now sort of his legacy, 
right? 

775
00:37:34,800 --> 00:37:38,000
As I think he was maybe ready 
to, you know, he'd made tedster 

776
00:37:38,000 --> 00:37:41,000
and us the co-ceo. 
There was some assumption that 

777
00:37:41,000 --> 00:37:43,500
some point in the next few 
years, he might just move up to 

778
00:37:43,508 --> 00:37:47,100
being chairman and not be in 
their day-to-day anymore, that 

779
00:37:47,100 --> 00:37:48,700
it's kind of harder for him to 
step away. 

780
00:37:48,700 --> 00:37:50,700
Now, listen, if there's 
anything, we've learned from 

781
00:37:50,700 --> 00:37:53,700
Disney, Hollywood, people don't 
just like, give you the edge. 

782
00:37:53,700 --> 00:37:56,200
I feel like every anyway. 
That's a well, the Disney thing 

783
00:37:56,200 --> 00:37:59,300
is a good comparison to As I 
mean, Iger was in a somewhat 

784
00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:02,100
similar situation, right? 
Like he was set to walk off into

785
00:38:02,100 --> 00:38:05,800
the sunset and then Disney plus 
becomes a priority and decides 

786
00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:09,400
to extend for a couple more 
years one because he's clearly 

787
00:38:09,400 --> 00:38:12,400
addicted to the job and is you 
know, Tom Brady like terrified 

788
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:15,200
of what he would do after it. 
But also because it's like, you 

789
00:38:15,207 --> 00:38:19,200
know, my legacy of buying up all
this great IP of building Disney

790
00:38:19,200 --> 00:38:21,600
into a behemoth at a time where 
everyone else was shrinking. 

791
00:38:22,100 --> 00:38:25,300
I can't just leave at this 
moment that we have the most 

792
00:38:25,300 --> 00:38:27,900
important initiative in the last
couple decades to you. 

793
00:38:28,100 --> 00:38:30,400
To be launched and then covid 
hits and they have that awful 

794
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,200
earnings call anyway. 
Yeah, it's interesting how much 

795
00:38:33,200 --> 00:38:34,700
these things end up being 
similar to each other. 

796
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:35,700
All right. 
Lucas. 

797
00:38:35,700 --> 00:38:38,800
You want CN n? 
Plus, I want to let you, you 

798
00:38:38,800 --> 00:38:42,600
frame it up because, you know, 
better than I, I cannot unless I

799
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:45,100
know you've been focused more on
the Netflix story but are you 

800
00:38:45,100 --> 00:38:48,700
willing to sort of set the 
stage, the old head of CNN, Jeff

801
00:38:48,700 --> 00:38:53,100
soccer since deposed decided 
that to kind of bring this Cable

802
00:38:53,100 --> 00:38:55,400
News Network into the future. 
They needed a paid streaming 

803
00:38:55,400 --> 00:38:57,300
service. 
Of course, for the Plus at the 

804
00:38:57,300 --> 00:38:59,700
end of the name, Cuz that's what
every streaming service does. 

805
00:39:00,100 --> 00:39:03,600
And even though he was sort of 
ousted, right before the service

806
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,900
came out, his then boss also 
since the pose or since I was 2,

807
00:39:06,900 --> 00:39:10,600
Jason Clark, I'll are out of 
brings this thing out right 

808
00:39:10,600 --> 00:39:14,000
before Warner media. 
And Carl are was a Believer, and

809
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,600
CN n plus. 
That's the sentence, right? 

810
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:19,100
Yes. 
So, they Warner media and 

811
00:39:19,100 --> 00:39:22,900
Discovery are set of set to 
merge, but they want to rush CN 

812
00:39:22,900 --> 00:39:25,100
n plus out the door before that 
happens. 

813
00:39:25,300 --> 00:39:29,000
Both because they, you know, 
believe, And because they want 

814
00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:31,700
to try, they figure if they get 
it out that the discovery people

815
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:35,300
can't kill it and yet it took 
just one month for the discovery

816
00:39:35,300 --> 00:39:37,300
people to kill it. 
Is basically what happened. 

817
00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:41,400
I mean, it this does feel very 
much like Quimby and who thought

818
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:44,400
this was going to work. 
I really don't get the query 

819
00:39:44,400 --> 00:39:45,900
comparisons. 
Oh, really? 

820
00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:49,000
Yeah, gonna get into that. 
I mean, what do I think? 

821
00:39:49,000 --> 00:39:52,700
Will be comparisons are the sort
of self-evident launching a 

822
00:39:52,707 --> 00:39:56,500
service where who has the 
intuition that there's demand 

823
00:39:56,600 --> 00:39:59,000
for this product obviously the 
Formats are so different. 

824
00:39:59,000 --> 00:40:02,600
Tom, you're like, I don't really
have a billion dollars on this. 

825
00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:06,000
No, I finish your thought. 
I'm just making faces. 

826
00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:10,300
Well, yeah, I mean they're very 
different Services obviously but

827
00:40:10,300 --> 00:40:17,300
it's spend a lot of money to 
hire talent for a type of 

828
00:40:17,300 --> 00:40:21,200
content that people are 
skeptical about on quippy. 

829
00:40:21,200 --> 00:40:24,100
It's like, okay, we're inventing
a format on CN n. 

830
00:40:24,100 --> 00:40:28,500
Plus it's the idea that people 
are going to just subscribe For 

831
00:40:28,600 --> 00:40:31,300
I mean you mentioned earlier in 
this conversation that you know 

832
00:40:31,300 --> 00:40:34,400
there isn't there hasn't been 
sort of evidence of sort of 

833
00:40:34,400 --> 00:40:38,100
stand-alone news interest. 
You're somebody's going to say 

834
00:40:38,100 --> 00:40:41,500
that fox has had some success 
there but no not really though. 

835
00:40:41,500 --> 00:40:43,500
I don't think the fox dreaming. 
That whatever. 

836
00:40:43,500 --> 00:40:45,500
What is it called? 
Fox show talking about Nation, 

837
00:40:45,600 --> 00:40:48,200
Fox Nation. 
I don't cover this shit before 

838
00:40:48,200 --> 00:40:49,200
so I'm not up to date on the 
numbers. 

839
00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:51,300
I don't think it's killing it. 
It's like okay, right? 

840
00:40:51,300 --> 00:40:54,600
They haven't disclosed. 
Yeah, I think the similarity is 

841
00:40:54,600 --> 00:40:58,500
that they both spent a bunch of 
money to create a Aid Service, 

842
00:40:58,500 --> 00:41:01,900
that offered something that 
people can get for free in a lot

843
00:41:01,900 --> 00:41:04,800
of other places. 
The Quimby idea, never made 

844
00:41:04,800 --> 00:41:07,700
sense to me, because they were 
basically saying we're going to 

845
00:41:07,700 --> 00:41:12,000
take, we're going to make, you 
know, TV quality shows but at, 

846
00:41:12,000 --> 00:41:15,800
you know, YouTube length and 
it's like, okay, but people and 

847
00:41:15,800 --> 00:41:18,600
there is this inference that 
YouTube was not quality but 

848
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:21,000
people really, really love you 
too bright. 

849
00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:25,200
So you didn't need and paid 
version of that and also people 

850
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:28,500
really, really love Netflix and 
they didn't need Their Netflix 

851
00:41:28,500 --> 00:41:31,100
shows chopped up into nine 
minute and there's no part of 

852
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:32,900
that. 
And I usually, YouTube creators 

853
00:41:32,900 --> 00:41:36,900
are responsive to what their 
customers want. 

854
00:41:37,000 --> 00:41:40,800
Where as quippy was just like a 
top-down product where it was 

855
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,300
like, Hollywood says, like we 
know right? 

856
00:41:44,300 --> 00:41:46,300
What? 
Yeah, I guess, here's where I 

857
00:41:46,300 --> 00:41:50,400
would say the similarities and 
Divergence has our quippy is a 

858
00:41:50,400 --> 00:41:52,900
classic Hollywood approach to a 
digital product. 

859
00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:55,600
It's Jeffrey katzenberg seeing 
you to being like, well, this 

860
00:41:55,600 --> 00:41:58,400
stuff isn't very good. 
It has no stars in And the 

861
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,500
Prussian quality is really bad. 
But what if we put huge Stars, 

862
00:42:01,500 --> 00:42:04,600
what do you put the rock or or 
Kevin Hart in these things? 

863
00:42:04,900 --> 00:42:07,200
And we have the same, you know, 
content length which is clearly.

864
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:09,200
What the only reason people 
watch it is because it's short 

865
00:42:09,200 --> 00:42:12,200
which like know and and it was a
very yeah, like you said 

866
00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:15,100
top-down approach, a Hollywood 
focus on what they think. 

867
00:42:15,100 --> 00:42:19,500
Historically is worked. 
I think CNN my guests here is 

868
00:42:19,500 --> 00:42:23,400
that it was partly X naught 
existential for them but they 

869
00:42:23,400 --> 00:42:26,700
needed a digital play. 
That was more than just having 

870
00:42:26,700 --> 00:42:30,400
videos posted on the Website and
a social media presence, right? 

871
00:42:30,400 --> 00:42:32,600
Like they were like, well, 
we're, you know, we're going to 

872
00:42:32,600 --> 00:42:36,300
keep losing Subs here and let's 
just find a way to tap into 

873
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:38,000
streaming. 
So maybe it's not existential as

874
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:40,000
in CNN, would shut down if it 
didn't happen. 

875
00:42:40,000 --> 00:42:43,000
But there's a little bit more 
strategic imperative behind it 

876
00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,500
where, as quippy seemed more 
like, well, let's invent a new 

877
00:42:45,500 --> 00:42:48,000
category because we think it 
doesn't exist yet. 

878
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,600
We're CNN's is more like, well, 
let's just kind of makes a 

879
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,800
streaming version of CNN. 
That has somewhat, you know, 

880
00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:57,100
focused content in that way. 
Yeah, CNN had to do something 

881
00:42:57,100 --> 00:43:00,700
you can argue That it should 
have been integrated into HBO 

882
00:43:00,700 --> 00:43:03,200
Max, you know, that's up for 
debate. 

883
00:43:03,200 --> 00:43:06,900
But if you see what's happening 
to the Cable Bundle and you're a

884
00:43:06,900 --> 00:43:09,400
channel that makes a lot of 
money from the Cable Bundle. 

885
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:11,800
You try to figure out some 
solution to it. 

886
00:43:11,800 --> 00:43:15,100
It's the same reason that, that 
Fox News did did what it did 

887
00:43:15,100 --> 00:43:17,200
with Fox Nation. 
I mean you could always put jet 

888
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:19,100
which is a totally different 
type of, you know, the 

889
00:43:19,100 --> 00:43:21,700
e-commerce play, where they 
spent a bazillion dollars to try

890
00:43:21,700 --> 00:43:24,400
and compete with Amazon. 
And yeah, I guess I find these 

891
00:43:24,400 --> 00:43:27,600
things all annoying because they
skip over the sort of minimum 

892
00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:30,800
Viable product idea. 
And they just say, wow, if we 

893
00:43:30,800 --> 00:43:35,700
throw Talent money marketing, 
everything at it, we can 

894
00:43:35,700 --> 00:43:38,300
overwhelm. 
And then it's often just 

895
00:43:38,300 --> 00:43:42,000
inexplicable, why these people 
are given sort of such long 

896
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:45,300
leashes when there's really no 
reason they couldn't do it the 

897
00:43:45,300 --> 00:43:48,600
slow way, except if you did it, 
this low way, people might start

898
00:43:48,600 --> 00:43:51,000
to get skeptical and then you 
wouldn't get the same amount of 

899
00:43:51,008 --> 00:43:52,900
money. 
You would, if you poured all the

900
00:43:52,900 --> 00:43:54,600
money in in the beginning, 
right? 

901
00:43:54,600 --> 00:43:57,500
With a it's funny that you use 
the term Long Leash to describe 

902
00:43:57,500 --> 00:43:59,600
see Then plus because they 
didn't get much time. 

903
00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,600
Me, I was about to say it's like
a comedic Lee Short, right? 

904
00:44:02,600 --> 00:44:04,200
I think. 
But a lot of money, right? 

905
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,600
I mean, it's 300 million. 
Plus what is the number? 

906
00:44:06,700 --> 00:44:08,400
Am I making that up there? 
Have been a few different 

907
00:44:08,400 --> 00:44:10,400
reports. 
Some there was a 300 million, 

908
00:44:10,400 --> 00:44:13,400
there was a 500 million a lot. 
If it's the 500 that had to 

909
00:44:13,400 --> 00:44:16,800
include sort of the full budget 
for the year, you can you can 

910
00:44:16,800 --> 00:44:20,000
nitpick are you can sort of, you
can question. 

911
00:44:20,000 --> 00:44:22,200
The programming choices they 
made, they went with 10 of 

912
00:44:22,200 --> 00:44:24,600
these. 
A lot of Lifestyle shows that 

913
00:44:24,600 --> 00:44:27,000
didn't seem to make a lot of 
sense for CN n plus those 

914
00:44:27,000 --> 00:44:29,600
certain, you know, that The Eva 
Longoria show felt like could 

915
00:44:29,600 --> 00:44:33,300
have lived on on HBO Max, but 
there was also they hired some 

916
00:44:33,300 --> 00:44:36,400
really big news Talent Audie 
Cornish from NPR and Chris 

917
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:41,100
Wallace from Fox News, but 
there's not Scott Galloway. 

918
00:44:43,100 --> 00:44:45,200
But they were, you know, they 
were trying to compare loose or 

919
00:44:45,200 --> 00:44:47,600
the New York Galloway. 
That's why we brought you on the

920
00:44:47,600 --> 00:44:49,000
podcast. 
I hold you guys. 

921
00:44:49,000 --> 00:44:51,000
Accountable for whatever wind 
sorry. 

922
00:44:52,900 --> 00:44:55,000
The curse of Scott Galloway 
continues. 

923
00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:57,100
I gotta I gotta wash my own 
streaming service and promise 

924
00:44:57,100 --> 00:44:57,900
scholarship. 
Show. 

925
00:45:00,100 --> 00:45:06,600
They I mean do you think this is
a sign of actual like executive 

926
00:45:07,000 --> 00:45:11,100
decision making that maybe posts
as love in a somewhat positive 

927
00:45:11,100 --> 00:45:13,500
light that he's willing to pull 
the plug on something that he 

928
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:16,300
doesn't believe in early on 
rather than just do it to you 

929
00:45:16,300 --> 00:45:20,800
know, Susie goes and and you 
know be a kind of accommodating 

930
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,300
to the new talent but actually 
say look I have a strategy here,

931
00:45:23,300 --> 00:45:25,900
this didn't fit into it, the 
numbers at least early on didn't

932
00:45:25,900 --> 00:45:27,800
back it up. 
Like let's fucking kill it 

933
00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:30,600
rather than You know, the may be
more judicious. 

934
00:45:31,000 --> 00:45:34,500
We'll look he's he's certainly 
come out of this transition. 

935
00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:38,000
Looking good. 
Right there was a lot of, you 

936
00:45:38,008 --> 00:45:40,700
know, we talked about some of 
the the built-up animosity 

937
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,000
towards Netflix. 
There's a lot of frustration in 

938
00:45:43,000 --> 00:45:45,500
the kind of entertainment 
Community with AT&T. 

939
00:45:45,800 --> 00:45:47,800
There's a lot of frustration 
with the leadership of Werner 

940
00:45:47,800 --> 00:45:51,100
media because of what they did 
and how they released the movies

941
00:45:51,100 --> 00:45:53,900
at home, which I still think was
the right decision from a 

942
00:45:53,908 --> 00:45:56,700
business perspective view. 
But but there were definitely 

943
00:45:56,700 --> 00:46:00,400
some missteps and how they 
executed that And so he was, he 

944
00:46:00,400 --> 00:46:02,000
was coming in with people giving
him move. 

945
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:03,700
He's at home, you mean? 
Skipping theaters? 

946
00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:05,800
Yeah. 
When they, when they decided to 

947
00:46:05,800 --> 00:46:09,500
release their entire slate of 
2021 movies on HBO, Max and in 

948
00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:12,400
theaters, at the same time, it 
caused this kind of whole shit 

949
00:46:12,400 --> 00:46:14,900
show in Hollywood have 
represented a thing that only 

950
00:46:14,900 --> 00:46:18,500
matters in Hollywood and the 
rest of America is like the rest

951
00:46:18,500 --> 00:46:20,200
of America is like movies at 
home. 

952
00:46:20,200 --> 00:46:21,800
Great. 
Like I don't want to go to the 

953
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,900
theater right now. 
What's like no I need to read a 

954
00:46:24,900 --> 00:46:27,200
3000 word. 
Open letter by Christopher Nolan

955
00:46:27,200 --> 00:46:28,700
to understand why you've been 
wrong. 

956
00:46:28,900 --> 00:46:30,500
And that's, that's what we 
start. 

957
00:46:30,500 --> 00:46:33,000
I derailed that. 
But yeah, fine, but I think 

958
00:46:33,000 --> 00:46:35,900
there's, he, he comes in with 
people giving him the benefit of

959
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:39,000
the doubt because they want to 
see the company go in the right 

960
00:46:39,000 --> 00:46:41,000
direction. 
And I do think there's there is 

961
00:46:41,000 --> 00:46:44,100
something to being decisive 
because it you sort of when you 

962
00:46:44,100 --> 00:46:47,000
rip the Band-Aid off, it really 
sucks for a little bit, but then

963
00:46:47,000 --> 00:46:48,900
you get to where you want. 
The question all have is, you 

964
00:46:48,908 --> 00:46:51,800
know, they're they're going to, 
you know, probably lose a bunch 

965
00:46:51,800 --> 00:46:53,500
of or fire a bunch of people 
through that. 

966
00:46:53,600 --> 00:46:55,700
They're about to have to fire a 
bunch of other people through 

967
00:46:55,700 --> 00:46:57,900
kind of re organizations and 
consolidations and 

968
00:46:57,900 --> 00:47:00,900
quote-unquote. 
He's and if he can get that if 

969
00:47:00,900 --> 00:47:04,100
David says, I can get through 
that without in a seeming like 

970
00:47:04,100 --> 00:47:05,800
the bad guy. 
That'll be quite the trick with 

971
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,400
sorry. 
For the non-hollywood Among Us, 

972
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:11,300
what is his fiefdom? 
Or what are they mean proper so 

973
00:47:11,300 --> 00:47:15,200
David's as love was until 
recently the the CEO of 

974
00:47:15,200 --> 00:47:19,800
Discovery Communications which 
just owns a bunch of cable 

975
00:47:19,800 --> 00:47:23,000
networks, you know, including 
Discovery and PLC and they 

976
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:27,500
bought scripts, which has HGTV 
and Food Network, and they then 

977
00:47:27,500 --> 00:47:33,100
merge with Warner media. 
To, which is HBO, the CNN Warner

978
00:47:33,100 --> 00:47:37,100
Brothers Studio, and also the 
Turner networks like TNT and TBS

979
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,900
and adults when their plan is to
make HBO Max even more maximum 

980
00:47:41,100 --> 00:47:41,800
maximum. 
Yeah. 

981
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,700
They, they keep saying that they
want to have just one service. 

982
00:47:45,700 --> 00:47:49,400
And so Discovery has the service
Discovery plus, which kind of 

983
00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:52,700
went through a similar, they 
didn't shut it down but they had

984
00:47:52,700 --> 00:47:55,700
gone in spending a bunch of 
money on shows with celebrities.

985
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:57,700
And, you know, discovered he's 
always been kind of a low-cost 

986
00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:00,900
programming place and They were 
they tried to go premium with 

987
00:48:00,900 --> 00:48:03,200
Discovery. 
Plus it didn't work, they can 

988
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:05,900
regroup, then they do this deal.
There's an assumption that 

989
00:48:05,900 --> 00:48:08,300
Discovery plus will either just 
be folded into HBO. 

990
00:48:08,300 --> 00:48:12,700
Max or will be bundled in some 
way that is positive for the 

991
00:48:12,700 --> 00:48:16,200
consumer and CN n plus just 
didn't fit into this into this 

992
00:48:16,200 --> 00:48:18,500
plan. 
You think the HBO Max brand is 

993
00:48:18,500 --> 00:48:20,500
like set. 
Like at this point it's still a 

994
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,100
little nonsensical, right? 
It's possible that they will 

995
00:48:23,100 --> 00:48:25,700
change the name. 
They have not, they have not 

996
00:48:25,700 --> 00:48:29,700
made any public comments on it, 
you have a gut Feeling on that, 

997
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,000
I really don't. 
Because I think these companies 

998
00:48:32,000 --> 00:48:35,600
have all taken different 
approaches with naming HBO 

999
00:48:35,600 --> 00:48:38,300
continues to be a really good 
brand and I don't know why you 

1000
00:48:38,300 --> 00:48:41,800
want to throw that out to try to
create something new, but having

1001
00:48:41,800 --> 00:48:44,400
a bunch of reality television 
HBO with a brand won't mean 

1002
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:46,500
anything in five years. 
I mean something, totally 

1003
00:48:46,500 --> 00:48:50,000
different, right? 
Won't mean the wiring, well, one

1004
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:53,000
assumes that they will still 
have all of those shows. 

1005
00:48:53,000 --> 00:48:57,100
They'll just, it'll be like like
Netflix where they make a lot of

1006
00:48:57,100 --> 00:48:58,700
really good Prestige 
programming. 

1007
00:48:58,900 --> 00:49:01,200
Then they also have all this 
other stuff, they already have 

1008
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:04,300
kind of lowered the quality of 
from the HBO brain on HBO Max 

1009
00:49:04,300 --> 00:49:08,300
already a island is on HBO Max. 
That's how about watch that one.

1010
00:49:08,700 --> 00:49:12,700
But yeah I mean the HBO Max 
original versus an HBO show it's

1011
00:49:12,700 --> 00:49:16,600
obviously to almost any normal 
person, all the same thing but I

1012
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:18,700
know within hvo. 
There was a lot of massaging of 

1013
00:49:18,700 --> 00:49:22,000
like what could technically 
defined as an HBO show versus a 

1014
00:49:22,008 --> 00:49:24,400
Mac show that. 
Yeah I mean I know, you know, 

1015
00:49:24,400 --> 00:49:27,500
back at the end, the tail end of
my covering the bead and the D, 

1016
00:49:27,500 --> 00:49:29,400
the deal with start To be 
discussed. 

1017
00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,600
There was a lot of consternation
that Discovery was sort of 

1018
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:34,200
associated with some of the 
worst quality content on 

1019
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,400
television, right? 
I mean, this was like, you say, 

1020
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:39,100
low budget reality stuff that 
could really be considered 

1021
00:49:39,400 --> 00:49:41,200
garbage. 
That was then going to be 

1022
00:49:41,200 --> 00:49:44,800
married with, you know, the 
premium most high-quality 

1023
00:49:44,800 --> 00:49:47,900
intellectual, you know, content 
that I feel like that's going to

1024
00:49:47,900 --> 00:49:50,000
be one of the biggest issues for
them to reckon with over the 

1025
00:49:50,000 --> 00:49:52,800
next couple of months is like, 
what brand do we really stand 

1026
00:49:52,800 --> 00:49:55,400
for? 
How do we keep HBO safe from it 

1027
00:49:55,700 --> 00:49:57,800
and, and, and like, you're 
saying, what do we call this 

1028
00:49:57,800 --> 00:50:00,400
fucking thing? 
Yeah, I mean all but it's the 

1029
00:50:00,400 --> 00:50:02,700
truth is all these services are 
going through this, right? 

1030
00:50:02,700 --> 00:50:05,000
So we've all talked about Disney
on. 

1031
00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:08,500
This Disney is in the midst, and
I forget, I think you, you wrote

1032
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:10,100
about this, Tom when you're 
still at the information. 

1033
00:50:10,100 --> 00:50:12,400
Jessica at the information loves
to write about this subject, 

1034
00:50:12,400 --> 00:50:14,800
which is like, how do they teach
us? 

1035
00:50:14,800 --> 00:50:16,200
Good to incorporate. 
Yeah. 

1036
00:50:16,400 --> 00:50:19,000
Yeah. 
How does Disney plus become more

1037
00:50:19,000 --> 00:50:20,600
than just Marvel and Star Wars, 
right. 

1038
00:50:20,600 --> 00:50:24,100
This is a, this is a service 
that caters to those super fans 

1039
00:50:24,100 --> 00:50:27,100
and also to, you know, people 
with young kids because they 

1040
00:50:27,100 --> 00:50:30,800
have the Disney In the Pixar 
movies and all that, but it's 

1041
00:50:30,800 --> 00:50:34,200
it. 
The the general customer does 

1042
00:50:34,200 --> 00:50:36,600
not view that as something that 
they're going to turn on every 

1043
00:50:36,600 --> 00:50:38,400
night to find something new to 
watch, right? 

1044
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:41,400
Like they're going to go there 
for a very specific thing and 

1045
00:50:41,400 --> 00:50:43,800
they've realized that if they 
want to hit the targets that 

1046
00:50:43,808 --> 00:50:46,300
they've put out, they're going 
to have to broaden what they do 

1047
00:50:46,300 --> 00:50:48,600
and it's why you see them 
putting Dancing with the Stars 

1048
00:50:48,600 --> 00:50:51,000
on Disney plus and they're going
to keep doing stupid things. 

1049
00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:54,700
All these services are still 
trying to figure out how to be 

1050
00:50:54,700 --> 00:50:57,700
like Netflix, which is why some 
of the problems that Netflix has

1051
00:50:57,700 --> 00:51:00,100
had recently. 
So much concerning for them. 

1052
00:51:00,400 --> 00:51:04,100
I teed this up earlier but so I 
just want to make sure it sounds

1053
00:51:04,100 --> 00:51:05,900
like everybody. 
Thinks quippy was far worse 

1054
00:51:05,900 --> 00:51:09,200
since you know plus or so. 
What were the definitive takes 

1055
00:51:09,200 --> 00:51:11,100
on? 
Some of you are rejecting this 

1056
00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:13,500
framework at all. 
I didn't invent this. 

1057
00:51:13,500 --> 00:51:16,500
I've seen people saying this, I 
look they're both comedic 

1058
00:51:16,500 --> 00:51:19,000
blowouts. 
And and before I answer that 

1059
00:51:19,000 --> 00:51:20,700
question, I just want to say one
quick thing because I did check 

1060
00:51:20,700 --> 00:51:22,700
in, on Twitter, over the 
weekend. 

1061
00:51:22,800 --> 00:51:24,800
Luke is, you can't say this 
because you still cover the be 

1062
00:51:24,800 --> 00:51:27,900
but Eric and I can the implosion
of CN n plus is funny. 

1063
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:30,800
I'm sorry. 
It fundamentally is funny, I'm 

1064
00:51:30,800 --> 00:51:33,100
sorry, people lost their jobs, 
it happens. 

1065
00:51:33,300 --> 00:51:35,400
It'll happen. 
Even more as the discovery 

1066
00:51:35,400 --> 00:51:37,800
integration goes through but 
like you don't have to sit there

1067
00:51:37,800 --> 00:51:40,100
and cry about the fact that 
there are people who lost their 

1068
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:42,500
jobs the whole way through. 
Enjoy the things that I like 

1069
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:45,300
that. 
You should know you're taking a 

1070
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:48,200
risk, they do act like it's a 
fucking tragedy. 

1071
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,000
Anybody who started it. 
He had to admit that like, we 

1072
00:51:52,000 --> 00:51:55,800
went in, knowing, it was like a 
big gamble and your amazing part

1073
00:51:55,800 --> 00:51:58,500
of taking jobs, like, betting 
on, like, how good the company 

1074
00:51:58,500 --> 00:51:59,700
is going. 
Do whatever you like that. 

1075
00:51:59,700 --> 00:52:04,600
I think the funny part is the 
The Clash of or the kind of the 

1076
00:52:05,000 --> 00:52:09,600
really rich powerful people and 
of basically fighting over the 

1077
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,200
future of this thing because 
there was a point a week or two 

1078
00:52:12,200 --> 00:52:15,300
ago where it just seemed very 
clear to me that someone within 

1079
00:52:15,300 --> 00:52:18,900
the discovery Universe was 
leaking bad news about. 

1080
00:52:18,900 --> 00:52:21,300
So it n plus because they wanted
to kill this thing. 

1081
00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:24,600
And so then you had some people 
on the, the within the kind of 

1082
00:52:24,600 --> 00:52:27,100
broader CNN Warner media 
universe, who wanted to try to 

1083
00:52:27,100 --> 00:52:29,000
rescue it. 
And so that part of it, I was a 

1084
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:33,200
little bit of humor, I think the
sad part is all the people who 

1085
00:52:33,200 --> 00:52:35,700
will lose their jobs as a 
result, but that is kind of sort

1086
00:52:35,700 --> 00:52:38,700
of undeniably sad. 
It's sad to me. 

1087
00:52:38,700 --> 00:52:42,000
I think the funny part is this 
CNN has this very like, were the

1088
00:52:42,000 --> 00:52:46,000
authority brand like we're 
delivering you like the news 

1089
00:52:46,000 --> 00:52:51,300
like we understand the world and
then for the product of such a 

1090
00:52:51,300 --> 00:52:55,700
type of person to fail reflects 
that they don't actually 

1091
00:52:55,700 --> 00:52:57,500
necessarily understand the 
world. 

1092
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:00,100
Obviously, They're not business 
people and their different 

1093
00:53:00,100 --> 00:53:01,400
things. 
And as a journalist, I'm 

1094
00:53:01,400 --> 00:53:04,100
sympathetic but I to me the 
funny part is the conflict 

1095
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:08,100
between this brand of authority 
and they're sort of inability to

1096
00:53:08,100 --> 00:53:12,200
judge their own likelihood of 
success your scrunchie a nose at

1097
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:12,700
this. 
Oh no. 

1098
00:53:12,700 --> 00:53:14,500
I'm just saying that shit's 
hard. 

1099
00:53:14,700 --> 00:53:17,200
Like I definitely the fact that 
it's run by journalists 

1100
00:53:17,200 --> 00:53:20,800
certainly doesn't mean that it 
or not run by journalists but 

1101
00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:23,200
they would be good at it but 
which is why I'm like just 

1102
00:53:23,200 --> 00:53:27,200
generally Pro you know, slow 
slow and steady growth. 

1103
00:53:27,200 --> 00:53:29,800
I mean that's you know we both 
Both came from the information 

1104
00:53:29,800 --> 00:53:32,300
that suggests is done. 
Like I I believe that some 

1105
00:53:32,300 --> 00:53:35,000
things are key, I mean, Disney 
plus was a huge, you know, out 

1106
00:53:35,000 --> 00:53:37,900
of the box, hit, you know, they 
got like 10 million Subs day. 

1107
00:53:37,900 --> 00:53:40,100
One there, there are things 
that, dude, legitimately take 

1108
00:53:40,100 --> 00:53:41,600
off. 
Typically those things were good

1109
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,800
ideas, whereas when you have a 
bad idea it tends to not do very

1110
00:53:45,800 --> 00:53:47,900
well or were you're not 
operating from a position of 

1111
00:53:47,900 --> 00:53:50,400
strength? 
I mean, Disney had the best 

1112
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:54,400
known entertainment brand in the
world and launched this sort of 

1113
00:53:54,600 --> 00:53:56,700
just remarkable marketing 
campaign. 

1114
00:53:57,300 --> 00:53:58,600
You know, most of these other 
services. 

1115
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,800
As you know, took Netflix years 
to even get to a million 

1116
00:54:01,800 --> 00:54:04,100
subscribers. 
It different news organizations,

1117
00:54:04,100 --> 00:54:06,800
which is sort of the world that 
CNN's playing in had to spend a 

1118
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,800
while to you don't usually jump 
out of the gate like Disney did,

1119
00:54:10,800 --> 00:54:12,400
right? 
Well, Disney had an insane value

1120
00:54:12,400 --> 00:54:15,200
probably was super cheap. 
This is a company that's like, 

1121
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,200
sort of divvied out. 
It's like old properties and 

1122
00:54:18,200 --> 00:54:21,500
sort of not, you know, they just
were very restrictive about what

1123
00:54:21,500 --> 00:54:22,900
they let people have. 
And all of a sudden, they're 

1124
00:54:22,900 --> 00:54:24,400
like, giving people like 
everything. 

1125
00:54:24,400 --> 00:54:26,500
I mean, it was. 
Yeah, I mean, it's just amazing.

1126
00:54:26,500 --> 00:54:29,200
So it's having a product that 
people, I want you guys are 

1127
00:54:29,200 --> 00:54:31,200
refusing, even ate in terms of 
quippy. 

1128
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:34,500
Just say, I'm they'll know, you 
won't even address it head-on. 

1129
00:54:34,500 --> 00:54:35,600
We kind of already did. 
I feel? 

1130
00:54:35,600 --> 00:54:38,200
I mean like, like Quimby, like 
Lucas. 

1131
00:54:38,200 --> 00:54:40,900
And I think we agree on. 
First of all, way more money, 

1132
00:54:40,900 --> 00:54:44,700
invested billions, we're 
invested into quippy. 

1133
00:54:44,700 --> 00:54:47,600
So if the 300 million figure is 
right for CNN, we're talking 

1134
00:54:47,600 --> 00:54:51,100
like less than three times, you 
know the Investments. 

1135
00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:52,200
Wait no more. 
You know what I mean? 

1136
00:54:52,200 --> 00:54:56,100
Whatever, far less investment. 
You're like nobody it CNN called

1137
00:54:56,100 --> 00:55:02,100
journalist Peters or Probably 
have but it's Tom got. 

1138
00:55:03,100 --> 00:55:06,500
She said that that journalists 
groom sources the same way that 

1139
00:55:06,500 --> 00:55:10,000
child Predators groom and you 
were that I was this list. 

1140
00:55:10,400 --> 00:55:12,900
I still have to inform everybody
when I move into a new 

1141
00:55:12,900 --> 00:55:15,900
neighborhood that I'm a 
journalist, so it's very, it's 

1142
00:55:15,900 --> 00:55:18,900
very concerning for my personal 
life, but no way more money was 

1143
00:55:18,900 --> 00:55:21,900
invested into Quimby. 
It was as Lucas made the point 

1144
00:55:21,900 --> 00:55:24,300
earlier, a much worse idea. 
There was no reason for it to 

1145
00:55:24,300 --> 00:55:27,000
exist CN. 
N plus wasn't the first attempt 

1146
00:55:27,300 --> 00:55:30,400
at this thing, you know, Fox, 
Nation is still around, they're 

1147
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:32,900
probably going to see other 
companies try to do this sort of

1148
00:55:32,900 --> 00:55:34,200
thing right. 
There needs to be some kind of 

1149
00:55:34,200 --> 00:55:36,500
streaming answer for, for cable 
news. 

1150
00:55:36,500 --> 00:55:38,900
So it's hard for me to eat. 
It's not even in the same 

1151
00:55:38,900 --> 00:55:41,400
universe. 
There's a bunch of other CNN, 

1152
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:44,100
pluses out there, right? 
I mean, there's every company. 

1153
00:55:44,200 --> 00:55:47,900
There's so many different Niche,
streaming services, CN n plus 

1154
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:50,000
just got a ton of attention 
because journalists are 

1155
00:55:50,000 --> 00:55:51,700
narcissists. 
And we like the right, but other

1156
00:55:51,700 --> 00:55:54,400
journalists exact, right? 
I agree with like media already 

1157
00:55:54,400 --> 00:55:57,100
gets overcome this is that you 
know, media that happens to be 

1158
00:55:57,100 --> 00:55:59,700
populated by journalists is 
Yeah. 

1159
00:55:59,800 --> 00:56:02,700
A different level of narcissism 
that will require people to 

1160
00:56:02,700 --> 00:56:04,700
think it was a much bigger 
implosion than it was. 

1161
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:07,200
Anyway, so my CN n. 
Plus show is not going to make 

1162
00:56:07,200 --> 00:56:10,200
it, I'm sorry to say but I'm 
still I'm still open for anyone 

1163
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,800
that wants to buy the IP. 
Maybe the I don't know the 

1164
00:56:13,800 --> 00:56:15,600
newcomer streaming service can 
pick it up. 

1165
00:56:15,700 --> 00:56:18,700
So last thing here maybe just 
with the discovery this as love 

1166
00:56:18,700 --> 00:56:21,600
era of media. 
What do you look at with CNN 

1167
00:56:21,600 --> 00:56:25,100
plus now in the rearview mirror?
Like what's next as like the 

1168
00:56:25,100 --> 00:56:27,000
biggest hurdle that they're 
going to have to address and 

1169
00:56:27,000 --> 00:56:30,800
like will give a sense as to 
what You know the the outside of

1170
00:56:30,800 --> 00:56:33,600
Disney, the largest Media 
company out there is going to be

1171
00:56:33,607 --> 00:56:35,300
going after. 
Well they have to figure out 

1172
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:37,500
what they want and what they're 
streaming strategy is they have 

1173
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:39,800
two different Services right 
now, they have Discovery plus an

1174
00:56:39,800 --> 00:56:43,400
HBO Max one assumes that they 
should just be squished together

1175
00:56:43,400 --> 00:56:47,600
because Discovery plus an HBO, 
Max are both making unscripted 

1176
00:56:47,600 --> 00:56:52,700
programming and Discovery plus 
has a, you know, a much smaller 

1177
00:56:52,700 --> 00:56:55,100
user base. 
But there's some, you know, 

1178
00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:58,000
there's some brand confusion 
there that that Eric alluded to 

1179
00:56:58,000 --> 00:57:00,000
earlier. 
HBO ran into this. 

1180
00:57:00,300 --> 00:57:02,100
When they first started selling 
HP. 

1181
00:57:02,100 --> 00:57:04,000
Oh, Max. 
Because there were all these 

1182
00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:06,600
different names. 
There's HBO Go and HBO now. 

1183
00:57:06,600 --> 00:57:08,700
And and so, which one were you 
getting? 

1184
00:57:08,700 --> 00:57:10,800
I mean, thankfully, at least 
they didn't go with with another

1185
00:57:10,800 --> 00:57:15,100
plus and what prevent chance. 
Now, they have that shit can 

1186
00:57:15,100 --> 00:57:17,400
relaunch with the plus. 
I love how that you're strong. 

1187
00:57:17,400 --> 00:57:19,800
That seems like your strongest 
ideologies require us. 

1188
00:57:19,800 --> 00:57:21,600
Like I'm anti plus like that I'm
alive. 

1189
00:57:22,300 --> 00:57:23,900
Oh, I have opinions about a lot 
of things. 

1190
00:57:23,900 --> 00:57:25,600
I'm just trying not to get in 
too much trouble today. 

1191
00:57:25,600 --> 00:57:26,800
Are you allowed? 
Are you free? 

1192
00:57:26,800 --> 00:57:28,500
Are you what? 
Yeah, I mean it looks. 

1193
00:57:28,600 --> 00:57:30,700
My newsletter is basically a 
weekly column. 

1194
00:57:30,700 --> 00:57:34,000
You you're not going to find 
like right really strongly 

1195
00:57:34,000 --> 00:57:37,200
voiced opinions but it's I 
wouldn't describe it as holy 

1196
00:57:37,200 --> 00:57:38,800
neutral. 
That's a big evolution. 

1197
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:43,500
When I was there, when I was 
writing fully charged, they 

1198
00:57:43,500 --> 00:57:45,300
would never. 
Let me say it was opinion. 

1199
00:57:45,300 --> 00:57:47,800
It was I don't, I don't view it.
As I don't view it in their 

1200
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:49,600
different. 
I viewed as a report, I view it 

1201
00:57:49,600 --> 00:57:53,100
as a recorded column, sure. 
Hey, yes! 

1202
00:57:53,100 --> 00:57:54,900
Want the pure undiluted, Lucas 
shopping. 

1203
00:57:54,900 --> 00:57:58,000
You gotta sign up for Lucas. 
Plus, you gotta, you gotta get 

1204
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,300
the premium. 
The premium level subscription. 

1205
00:58:00,300 --> 00:58:04,200
Don't you go and Balinese my 
eyes can go on, I go on the 

1206
00:58:04,200 --> 00:58:08,800
town, every Monday and then I 
occasionally appear on the 

1207
00:58:08,800 --> 00:58:11,400
business, which is Kim master 
show at KCRW. 

1208
00:58:11,800 --> 00:58:15,600
And there may or may not be some
other things coming at some 

1209
00:58:15,600 --> 00:58:18,700
point, he knows when that's 
good, we got it, we got it. 

1210
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:22,300
I think the other big question 
is, you know, David sighs lab 

1211
00:58:22,300 --> 00:58:25,600
has no experience running or 
little it's been a long time, 

1212
00:58:25,800 --> 00:58:28,500
running a big entertainment 
company that likes to spend. 

1213
00:58:28,600 --> 00:58:32,000
And a lot of money and so is, 
how is he going to feel when 

1214
00:58:32,000 --> 00:58:35,400
he's got a clear, a 200 million 
dollar check for a Batman movie 

1215
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,000
or when he's got to sign off on 
an HBO show that's going to cost

1216
00:58:38,000 --> 00:58:40,700
twenty million dollars an 
episode if he's if he's cool 

1217
00:58:40,700 --> 00:58:44,000
with it, great, but that's 
something he hasn't had to do in

1218
00:58:44,000 --> 00:58:46,500
a in a very long time. 
If ever, I love it. 

1219
00:58:46,600 --> 00:58:48,200
He's in the hot seat. 
All right, thanks. 

1220
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,400
Thanks for doing this. 
Lucas and do it on a Sunday? 

1221
00:58:50,400 --> 00:58:51,400
I appreciate it. 
Oh yeah. 

1222
00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:54,800
Almost for that kind of coverage
and whatever the next implosion,

1223
00:58:54,800 --> 00:58:56,900
maybe I'm sure you'll have 
something good to say about it. 

1224
00:58:56,900 --> 00:58:59,900
Yeah, thanks, Bethany. 
Goodbye, 

1225
00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:14,200
goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 

1226
00:59:14,300 --> 00:59:14,500
Goodbye.