1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:23,200 Welcome. So people read the Facebook 2 00:00:23,200 --> 00:00:24,500 Stories? Yes. 3 00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:26,000 How can we not read the Facebook stories? 4 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,800 They're really good. And I'm somebody like, I mean 5 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:30,500 loves to ignore Facebook. Stories. 6 00:00:31,100 --> 00:00:35,700 This is a clearly Pulitzer Contender for sure. 7 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:38,900 Well, what's funny about it is like the times are we? 8 00:00:39,100 --> 00:00:41,200 I guess this is. This is how but here's the 9 00:00:41,200 --> 00:00:45,000 reason I actually you know I think the journal is paint be 10 00:00:45,008 --> 00:00:47,700 doing a better job on this is that the New York Times was 11 00:00:47,700 --> 00:00:50,400 always struck stuck in this situation talking about the 12 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:53,800 election and and Russia with like how can we prove the 13 00:00:53,800 --> 00:00:55,900 impact? I mean, you know there's 14 00:00:55,900 --> 00:00:58,500 obviously something to be said about whether disinformation 15 00:00:58,500 --> 00:01:00,000 cause certain people to not vote. 16 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:03,100 Whatever. But, you know, I remember when 17 00:01:03,100 --> 00:01:05,800 it came to privacy and like a lack of interest and user 18 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:07,700 privacy. There was a piece of the times 19 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:09,900 did, in which they were literally taking reporters 20 00:01:10,100 --> 00:01:12,100 outside, like, in New York and, like accosting. 21 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:15,000 Regular people showing them how, you know, their data was no 22 00:01:15,000 --> 00:01:17,900 longer safe for, or kept private on Facebook and they're like, 23 00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:20,100 doesn't this make you mad? Doesn't this make you mad? 24 00:01:20,100 --> 00:01:22,800 And it was the strangest story but it was also to be very clear 25 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,000 that we're like. Okay look we've got to prove, 26 00:01:25,100 --> 00:01:27,300 you know, real world impact of this to be a stronger Pulitzer 27 00:01:27,300 --> 00:01:29,800 piece and so they went and did that. 28 00:01:29,800 --> 00:01:32,300 And it was this completely forgettable story that I think 29 00:01:32,300 --> 00:01:34,500 kind of prove that it's very tough which we were kind of 30 00:01:34,508 --> 00:01:37,200 talking about last week with a lot of tech stories to like, 31 00:01:37,200 --> 00:01:42,100 explain to lay people why this matters and if you can make the 32 00:01:42,100 --> 00:01:43,600 case that that's the reason Trump won. 33 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:44,700 Okay? That's that's something. 34 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:49,100 But what the journal was very effective at with the story? 35 00:01:49,100 --> 00:01:51,700 Do you want to give to you want to set up the stories real 36 00:01:51,700 --> 00:01:54,000 quick? Just basically what the journal 37 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:57,400 has done is its amass. An enormous Trove of documents 38 00:01:57,400 --> 00:01:59,900 and conducted scores of interviews with people who are 39 00:02:00,100 --> 00:02:05,300 Company to show essentially that the company knows that it is 40 00:02:05,700 --> 00:02:09,699 doing harm in the world. That is really cognizant of 41 00:02:09,699 --> 00:02:10,800 this. That it's have full 42 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:15,300 conversations internally with Executives and up to and 43 00:02:15,300 --> 00:02:19,200 including the chief executive officer, Mark Zuckerberg and 44 00:02:19,200 --> 00:02:23,200 that despite all of this changes were not implemented swiftly and 45 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:27,400 their public facing message has been that these harms that they 46 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:31,000 speak of, so clearly in their own internal Presentations and 47 00:02:31,000 --> 00:02:33,800 internal corporate conversations their public facing message. 48 00:02:33,800 --> 00:02:37,300 Has been that these harms are not happening and so far, the 49 00:02:37,300 --> 00:02:40,900 journal has laid out three and signal that we're going to see 50 00:02:40,900 --> 00:02:43,300 more including on things like child sex trafficking. 51 00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:46,500 But the three that they've currently laid out, include the 52 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,900 idea that Instagram, the popular photo showing up where we see a 53 00:02:49,900 --> 00:02:52,100 lot of celebrities and a lot of people looking really great. 54 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:57,000 That Instagram is, has contributed to the deleterious. 55 00:02:57,100 --> 00:02:59,600 His can't has contributed to deleterious Mental Health. 56 00:03:00,300 --> 00:03:02,800 Flex for young women and that it's known. 57 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:05,400 It's something the company has known something, the company has 58 00:03:05,700 --> 00:03:10,000 chosen not to address in order to preserve its business model. 59 00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:13,100 It's also shown that the company was well aware of the fact that 60 00:03:13,100 --> 00:03:15,200 changes that it made to its algorithm in the way that people 61 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:21,000 share news did not necessarily just increase bonds between 62 00:03:21,000 --> 00:03:23,600 users, which was the stated goal made them angry, but it made 63 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:27,300 them anger made them, it created Division and that it encouraged 64 00:03:27,300 --> 00:03:32,100 people to share and to engage out of a place of anger, hate 65 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:36,000 lack of trust, and all these things that we are legitimately 66 00:03:36,000 --> 00:03:38,100 worried about in terms of its impact on democracy. 67 00:03:38,700 --> 00:03:43,000 And then third was the original story that Jeff published which 68 00:03:43,000 --> 00:03:44,300 I'm actually pulling up right now. 69 00:03:45,500 --> 00:03:47,300 It was that the elite are exempt? 70 00:03:47,300 --> 00:03:51,300 Yes, that right there is none from the rules x check process 71 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:55,300 and that not only are Elites exempt but that when Facebook 72 00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:58,600 created its own board to adjudicate what to do about 73 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,600 high-profile users, It was not honest, with its own board, 74 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:08,400 about the fact that it had a program that whitelisted, the 75 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:12,400 behavior of high-profile users often times but not always bad 76 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:14,800 behavior, right? Yeah. 77 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,700 So, of the three pieces that have been published so far. 78 00:04:17,700 --> 00:04:21,800 The one that I thought, really made the strongest case that 79 00:04:21,899 --> 00:04:25,400 there is real impact to all of these problems is the one about 80 00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:28,900 young women and Instagram because, and now I, you know, 81 00:04:28,900 --> 00:04:31,700 you we can argue You whether or not I'm interested in you, which 82 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:34,000 one's the worst is an interesting framing. 83 00:04:34,300 --> 00:04:38,100 Oh, for sure. The one today about about - you 84 00:04:38,100 --> 00:04:40,600 know, anger on Facebook granted, it's also the one I've not read 85 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:43,800 the closest but I just feel like again story. 86 00:04:46,400 --> 00:04:47,900 Well, to me, it's the oldest Story. 87 00:04:47,900 --> 00:04:52,300 I mean, like we're now mold many years into this discussion over 88 00:04:52,300 --> 00:04:56,000 Facebook and social media being - on our national discourse and 89 00:04:56,000 --> 00:04:59,600 it only highlighting the most, you know, aggrieved sentiments. 90 00:04:59,600 --> 00:05:02,700 And It being useful to Facebook's business model that 91 00:05:02,700 --> 00:05:05,100 you know the most outspoken people are the ones who are the 92 00:05:05,100 --> 00:05:07,700 angriest. So I just, I'd be shocked if 93 00:05:07,707 --> 00:05:11,300 there's anything that feels strongly new to me. 94 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:14,900 Because, aside from the fact that there was internal teams at 95 00:05:14,900 --> 00:05:17,700 Facebook showing that we had data to back it up. 96 00:05:18,500 --> 00:05:20,700 It's just, we don't know to meet to me, we've been there and I 97 00:05:20,707 --> 00:05:23,500 don't, obviously have a problem with people writing more stories 98 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,100 about it but I just I'm going to be less influenced by it than 99 00:05:27,100 --> 00:05:29,600 something like. Well I thought the anger 12 me 100 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,300 my Ranking would be sort of how they treat the elites 101 00:05:33,300 --> 00:05:35,100 differently. Then the anger one. 102 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:38,200 Then the teen girls one, I don't know. 103 00:05:38,200 --> 00:05:41,900 To me the teen girls story and you know, I have never been a 104 00:05:41,900 --> 00:05:45,200 teen girl. No, but it seems, it seems more 105 00:05:45,200 --> 00:05:48,300 about sort of, You Know, The Human Condition. 106 00:05:48,300 --> 00:05:50,300 I don't know. It's like, well magazine, it's 107 00:05:50,300 --> 00:05:54,800 used to show pictures, you know, like different and also it's, 108 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,400 you know, different teen. Girls have different reactions 109 00:05:57,700 --> 00:05:59,800 to Instagram. So part of the game of that. 110 00:06:00,000 --> 00:06:04,700 Or he is basically to say, you know, oh this subsection, you 111 00:06:04,707 --> 00:06:07,900 know, was made much worse but yeah you take any poles, some 112 00:06:07,900 --> 00:06:09,500 people felt better because of it. 113 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:12,700 Some people felt worse and sort of the game of the story is to 114 00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:16,800 just focus on the people who felt worse because of Instagram. 115 00:06:17,300 --> 00:06:20,000 I don't think that's correct. I think that what the story 116 00:06:20,000 --> 00:06:23,300 shows us, not just that, I don't think it's the game to show that 117 00:06:23,500 --> 00:06:26,100 only people who felt worse, are important. 118 00:06:26,200 --> 00:06:30,000 I think, what's important is the hypocrisy where the story A 119 00:06:30,000 --> 00:06:33,000 shows that Facebook is cognizant of a problem. 120 00:06:33,000 --> 00:06:36,500 Instagram knows about a problem, they discuss the problem, but in 121 00:06:36,500 --> 00:06:39,000 public, they say, we found the Instagram. 122 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,400 Actually makes people feel better about themselves. 123 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:43,800 That is that would cover up. Rocks of the story. 124 00:06:43,800 --> 00:06:46,700 Is a cover up. Yeah, not some game by reporters 125 00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:47,700 today. Well, I was nip. 126 00:06:47,700 --> 00:06:51,200 You late the idea that teen girls have bad self-esteem and 127 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:53,500 it's Instagram and I and what was so effective about it. 128 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:56,200 To me was they were able to pair the findings from this internal 129 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:59,600 study with public statements that Zuckerberg had made that 130 00:06:59,600 --> 00:07:02,300 Adam Very had made in which they work as directly about this 131 00:07:02,300 --> 00:07:04,200 topic in there, like, we found that. 132 00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:10,100 It's actually good for you. I mean in real story that's been 133 00:07:10,100 --> 00:07:12,900 an important use of all three of the stories we've seen so far 134 00:07:12,900 --> 00:07:15,500 and I imagine it will be a very important piece of the stories 135 00:07:15,700 --> 00:07:19,000 that you know, the subsequent stories in this year company. 136 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,900 They can't help lying, you know? And the Wall Street Journal is 137 00:07:21,900 --> 00:07:24,400 usually I mean they are very careful here. 138 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:28,900 I think even in calling fit saying that Facebook lied to its 139 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:32,300 oversight board. They quote an of an independent 140 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:36,100 expert who reviewed the journals findings and have that person 141 00:07:36,100 --> 00:07:39,300 say that Facebook lied to the board. 142 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:42,300 And I think, I mean that, that shows sort of the Wall Street. 143 00:07:42,300 --> 00:07:45,000 Journal's. I think we're straight in. 144 00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:47,700 Yeah, we're doing these things which is super interesting but 145 00:07:47,700 --> 00:07:51,100 but I mean, it's pretty clear that the Facebook just like lies 146 00:07:51,100 --> 00:07:54,800 and lies to everybody. And that allows these stories to 147 00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:59,200 keep coming because I mean I didn't I think that one of the 148 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:03,300 What has really been happening and with vis-à-vis Facebook in 149 00:08:03,300 --> 00:08:07,300 the media is that after an extraordinary honeymoon period 150 00:08:07,300 --> 00:08:10,700 with the press that was like bye. 151 00:08:11,400 --> 00:08:14,700 It was almost like the business press forgot that Facebook was a 152 00:08:14,700 --> 00:08:17,800 business. It was extreme. 153 00:08:18,800 --> 00:08:24,000 You saw even before the 2016 election different reporters, 154 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:29,500 try to show that Facebook had a less than glowing happy side. 155 00:08:29,500 --> 00:08:32,200 You saw The Wall Street Journal do in a story called, I believe 156 00:08:32,200 --> 00:08:36,400 was what they know which took aim, it all sorts of tech 157 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:38,700 companies, not just Facebook, but the idea of tracking the 158 00:08:38,700 --> 00:08:40,799 idea of surveillance, the idea of these companies really 159 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:43,299 understanding us better than we understand ourselves and then 160 00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:47,700 selling in mining our data, you saw different reporters right 161 00:08:47,700 --> 00:08:51,200 about the fact that Mark Zuckerberg and Sheryl Sandberg? 162 00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:53,400 Probably more Mark than Cheryl at that time. 163 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,100 How weren't being forthcoming or had made mistakes because of a 164 00:08:57,100 --> 00:08:59,300 privacy. And that there was a sense that 165 00:08:59,300 --> 00:09:01,700 inside of the Bunny. It was done knowingly, but that 166 00:09:01,700 --> 00:09:03,400 publicly, the apology was always. 167 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:06,700 Oh my gosh, we're going to try harder, right? 168 00:09:06,900 --> 00:09:10,400 I think my crew, we're getting to a point where because of 169 00:09:10,400 --> 00:09:13,700 things like the election. The public is now, more on board 170 00:09:13,700 --> 00:09:15,400 for more critical stories about Facebook. 171 00:09:15,400 --> 00:09:18,700 The reporters are getting more access to sources in part 172 00:09:18,700 --> 00:09:21,900 because there's more discontent with within the company and the 173 00:09:21,900 --> 00:09:25,200 company is making bigger and bigger and bigger error. 174 00:09:25,200 --> 00:09:28,300 So, it's sort of this perfect storm of these stories are 175 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:32,400 starting to hit and have more More impact even if the 176 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,900 reporters can't, for example, prove that, you know, Facebook 177 00:09:35,900 --> 00:09:39,200 had this disastrous impact on the election with 100 certitude 178 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,600 or even through Porter, can't prove it 100% servitude. 179 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:44,800 That Instagram is making teen girls more likely to have an 180 00:09:44,800 --> 00:09:48,600 eating disorder. Certainly the public, you know, 181 00:09:48,600 --> 00:09:52,100 the public isn't a place, the reporters are in a place, the 182 00:09:52,100 --> 00:09:54,700 cultures and in place where these conversations are just 183 00:09:54,700 --> 00:09:57,200 more interesting to us all the recording, right? 184 00:09:57,200 --> 00:10:00,500 But another way of saying what you're saying is that Reporters 185 00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:03,600 are ruled by the posture of the moment towards a particular 186 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:06,800 entity, right? Early on their way to not. 187 00:10:06,900 --> 00:10:09,300 Okay, let me think that because there were reporters who weren't 188 00:10:09,300 --> 00:10:12,000 ruled by the posture of the moment who did, right, right? 189 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:15,200 There were investors means but they were dismissed by a lot of 190 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:17,900 what I think is, is interesting, is two things. 191 00:10:17,900 --> 00:10:20,900 One, I think there were a lot of people myself included that 192 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:24,900 wondered and maybe thought that in a post Trump World, the need 193 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:28,600 to attack Facebook constantly or sorry to investigate Facebook, 194 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,800 very aggressively. Was going to subside because 195 00:10:32,000 --> 00:10:36,800 Facebook was sort of seen by many people as the enabler of 196 00:10:36,800 --> 00:10:39,400 the Trump presidency for a lot of reasons. 197 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:41,900 And, you know, here we are however, many months in a Biden 198 00:10:41,900 --> 00:10:45,200 presidency and there is still huge stories that are coming out 199 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:47,300 from from the big newspapers showing that there are all kinds 200 00:10:47,300 --> 00:10:49,800 of problems internally. So, you know, I think there were 201 00:10:49,800 --> 00:10:52,300 a lot of people at Facebook that thought it was going to go away. 202 00:10:52,500 --> 00:10:54,200 And clearly, it isn't well weird. 203 00:10:54,200 --> 00:10:56,100 Contradiction of Facebook obviously, right. 204 00:10:56,100 --> 00:10:59,100 I mean, Katie talked about this earlier that because the public 205 00:10:59,100 --> 00:11:03,500 is now So cynical of Facebook because of the coverage in part, 206 00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:07,000 it's much easier to motivate like critical coverage of 207 00:11:07,000 --> 00:11:09,800 Facebook, but of course, the public critiques and Facebook 208 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,900 are totally different. Right there is the Democrats who 209 00:11:12,900 --> 00:11:16,200 hate hate Facebook for a set of reasons and other Republicans 210 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:19,200 who hate Facebook's for perceived bias. 211 00:11:19,200 --> 00:11:23,600 But then it's this sort of amalgam of contradictory 212 00:11:23,800 --> 00:11:27,200 objections to Facebook that allow sort of these really 213 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,500 critical Facebook Stories to have much resonance. 214 00:11:30,500 --> 00:11:32,700 I don't know. I I distinctly these stories 215 00:11:32,700 --> 00:11:35,200 stay away from politics right with certain areas. 216 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:39,100 Great stories are really impactful in part because they 217 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:41,100 are addressing issues that no matter where you sit on the 218 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:43,700 political Spectrum or what part of the country you live in ya, 219 00:11:44,100 --> 00:11:47,800 Urban or rural. You can't have not noticed how 220 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:49,800 toxic things are on Facebook, right? 221 00:11:49,900 --> 00:11:53,300 Even this is an original point. But I to me, they read as 222 00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:56,300 writing about Facebook as if it's the tobacco industry, 223 00:11:56,300 --> 00:11:57,900 right? It's like a really internal 224 00:11:57,900 --> 00:12:00,300 research. They did on Of. 225 00:12:00,800 --> 00:12:04,000 Here's how they knew what they were selling you is bad. 226 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:08,600 Here's how when the regulator's came to them, they misled an 227 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:11,500 obfuscated. And and so yeah to me this is a 228 00:12:11,500 --> 00:12:16,200 series that's really trying to frame Facebook as akin to the 229 00:12:16,200 --> 00:12:20,800 tobacco industry. Now we can does a great job of 230 00:12:20,800 --> 00:12:22,700 that. Yeah and that's been that's been 231 00:12:22,700 --> 00:12:25,100 a comparison that's been going around for a couple of years. 232 00:12:25,100 --> 00:12:28,000 Now I remember Marc benioff at some conference a couple of 233 00:12:28,000 --> 00:12:31,300 years ago was explicit about Bout that which, you know, I 234 00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:33,800 think there's a lot of self-serving nests on the part 235 00:12:33,800 --> 00:12:35,700 of tech Executives to call out Facebook. 236 00:12:35,700 --> 00:12:38,700 I mean, certainly apple is the best example of that, you know, 237 00:12:38,700 --> 00:12:41,000 when Tim Cook was going around saying that they're stealing 238 00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:44,700 your data and apple is the Privacy protection company, 239 00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:46,500 right? Yeah, there's a lot of that 240 00:12:46,500 --> 00:12:48,600 going on there. I have a tough time with the 241 00:12:48,600 --> 00:12:52,400 tobacco comparison. I don't think it's a it. 242 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:55,200 I don't think it stands up to much scrutiny other than it 243 00:12:55,200 --> 00:12:56,800 speaks to like the power of business. 244 00:12:56,900 --> 00:12:59,700 I think there's a huge difference between an addictive 245 00:12:59,900 --> 00:13:03,900 Product that has only deleterious health effects to 246 00:13:03,900 --> 00:13:06,500 something like, you know, the national discourse that Facebook 247 00:13:06,500 --> 00:13:09,700 is affecting or teen self-image. That Facebook is affecting, 248 00:13:10,100 --> 00:13:12,600 which are so much more challenging. 249 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,500 I mean there's sociological problems are not health 250 00:13:14,500 --> 00:13:17,000 problems. You can add are thinking real 251 00:13:17,000 --> 00:13:20,800 science, you know, in a decade. I don't know what we could but 252 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:24,500 looking back I think decade that we expect technology to protect 253 00:13:25,100 --> 00:13:27,000 us from what we could thinking of decade that this was a 254 00:13:27,008 --> 00:13:28,900 hysteria. You know, I mean I thought there 255 00:13:28,900 --> 00:13:32,400 was a great there is A great story that Joe Bernstein wrote 256 00:13:32,400 --> 00:13:35,300 for. I don't remember where he was 257 00:13:35,300 --> 00:13:37,600 orders. Yeah yeah like a buzzfeed 258 00:13:37,600 --> 00:13:39,200 reporter. I think we took a year off and 259 00:13:39,200 --> 00:13:41,800 did some, you know, I thought deeper anything research 260 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:43,100 fellowships. Yeah. 261 00:13:43,200 --> 00:13:44,800 Yeah. And he made a really strong case 262 00:13:44,800 --> 00:13:47,700 that like look, we just don't really know the effect that 263 00:13:47,700 --> 00:13:49,800 anything has on on the way we think. 264 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:52,500 And you could argue that advertising which is, you know, 265 00:13:52,900 --> 00:13:56,500 influential advertising, that is the base of how so much of our 266 00:13:56,500 --> 00:13:58,200 economy Works. Maybe that's not even that 267 00:13:58,200 --> 00:14:02,600 effective too. And so to basically say there's 268 00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:05,500 there's the really cynical argument that the storyline that 269 00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:08,500 Facebook is able to manipulate us as fundamentally good for 270 00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:10,700 Facebook's business. Because it convinces advertising 271 00:14:10,700 --> 00:14:13,900 writers, write its this all-powerful platform with which 272 00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:17,500 to control the public. And so, as much as Facebook 273 00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:21,400 wants to resist that when it comes to dealing with lawmakers, 274 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,100 it's sort of a reputation that it's not totally opposed, right? 275 00:14:26,100 --> 00:14:28,500 Just like the idea of cigarettes are extremely addictive, is not 276 00:14:28,500 --> 00:14:30,700 necessarily bad for an industry. See, that's trying to convince 277 00:14:30,700 --> 00:14:32,300 investors that can always get customer. 278 00:14:33,100 --> 00:14:35,200 He's right. It's a great business model. 279 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:36,500 Good. All right. 280 00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:38,900 Yeah, yeah. But you know, I wonder what will 281 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,300 happen. I mean, to a certain extent 282 00:14:41,300 --> 00:14:44,000 despite the fact that it's great reporting in the Wall Street 283 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,500 Journal and it's important to expose internal tensions over 284 00:14:47,500 --> 00:14:49,800 things like this that some of these subjects are better 285 00:14:49,800 --> 00:14:52,600 discussed and like academic journals and and mental health 286 00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:55,600 journals because it's their this is going to move the public. 287 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,100 Yeah well and also I think Tom the real problem, the real place 288 00:14:59,100 --> 00:15:01,800 where the Comparison between the tobacco industry and Facebook 289 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,900 breaks down. Is it a backhoe industry was 290 00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:07,200 creating a product that we smoked or at least? 291 00:15:07,200 --> 00:15:09,300 Then I smoked. But we were creating a product 292 00:15:09,400 --> 00:15:14,500 that they could that they could stop not anymore kids, but 293 00:15:14,600 --> 00:15:18,100 creating a product that that you we could stop production of you 294 00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,700 can shut down a tobacco Factory. You don't need to harvest the 295 00:15:21,700 --> 00:15:24,200 crop anymore. You cannot make a cigarette. 296 00:15:24,700 --> 00:15:27,600 Facebook is creating a product that we actually create as 297 00:15:27,600 --> 00:15:29,500 people. And so there's no way to shut 298 00:15:29,500 --> 00:15:31,400 down. Down production on Facebook 299 00:15:31,400 --> 00:15:33,600 because it would mean, everybody would just have to leave the 300 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:36,200 platform. I just spent the summer in New 301 00:15:36,200 --> 00:15:39,200 England, if you are not in a place where for example, small 302 00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:44,100 businesses towns Municipal Services have created their own 303 00:15:44,100 --> 00:15:47,000 websites, they all live on Facebook, you're not going to 304 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:48,900 know what's going on with your kids elementary school. 305 00:15:49,100 --> 00:15:51,500 If you live in rural, Maine, unless you're on Facebook, 306 00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:53,500 you're not going to get not know what's going on with your fire 307 00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:55,600 department, if you're a Massachusetts, unless you're on 308 00:15:55,600 --> 00:15:58,800 Facebook dark. So, I mean, what what so you 309 00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:02,200 can't shut off. The cigarette factory when it 310 00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:04,500 comes to Facebook. Yeah. 311 00:16:04,800 --> 00:16:07,400 And and it gets complicated and the journal story dealt with 312 00:16:07,400 --> 00:16:10,100 this to about like, well what are the other social media 313 00:16:10,100 --> 00:16:12,900 platforms doing and are they better for our mental health 314 00:16:12,900 --> 00:16:15,700 than that and I know from covering snap that there is a 315 00:16:15,700 --> 00:16:18,600 deep belief on you know, the CEO Evan Spiegel is part. 316 00:16:18,600 --> 00:16:20,900 A lot of people there that like we did it right? 317 00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:24,900 You know, we have moderated, the new section, we don't allow for 318 00:16:25,200 --> 00:16:27,900 Mass amplification of false stories. 319 00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,400 And then I think the journal story Also mentioned like oh 320 00:16:30,400 --> 00:16:33,500 Tick-Tock doesn't really, you know, hurt your mental health 321 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,600 because it's more about being fun than it is about, you know. 322 00:16:36,608 --> 00:16:38,600 It is fun. Would it take it consumes so 323 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:41,100 much of my time? I mean, it is and I never 324 00:16:41,100 --> 00:16:45,100 remember anything. I believe my mental health has 325 00:16:45,100 --> 00:16:47,600 been impaired in some, right, right. 326 00:16:47,600 --> 00:16:50,800 I feel like I just skipped over that period of time, like I it's 327 00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,900 just like I'm a racing time for my life where after it's done. 328 00:16:53,900 --> 00:16:56,000 I'm like what did I get out of it? 329 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:57,800 You know what I mean? Yeah, I enjoyed it. 330 00:16:57,800 --> 00:17:02,300 I guess while I was consuming it, To me, like the craziest 331 00:17:02,300 --> 00:17:06,500 kind of cover-up on the part of a corporation that I can think 332 00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:09,300 of that's happened in the last however, many decades was X on 333 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,300 knowing full, well about global warming. 334 00:17:12,800 --> 00:17:16,500 And the fact that they had done studies showing that, you know, 335 00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:19,500 the consumption of fossil fuels is contributing to carbon in the 336 00:17:19,500 --> 00:17:21,500 atmosphere and raising temperatures because that was 337 00:17:21,500 --> 00:17:24,800 something that I don't believe was widely known at all at the 338 00:17:24,808 --> 00:17:26,099 time. I mean this was something that 339 00:17:26,099 --> 00:17:30,100 was like years and years before Al Gore was making his political 340 00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,900 Koval career off of it and, you know, like, cigarettes people 341 00:17:33,900 --> 00:17:36,300 probably knew for a long time, maybe not that it was addictive 342 00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:38,300 but that, you know, it wasn't good for your health. 343 00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:40,700 And then with Facebook, there have been a lot of third-party 344 00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:42,900 studies that have gone on for a long time. 345 00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:45,900 Saying like, yeah, this is really fucking with young girls 346 00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:48,600 brains. I think a clear thing on Venus, 347 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:51,700 on the Exxon poor women's Brains to jfy. 348 00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:55,300 I say as a senior citizen on the Exxon point, I mean, I just 349 00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:57,500 think an important thing to remember in these stories is 350 00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:01,800 that the companies think about themselves way More than we do, 351 00:18:01,800 --> 00:18:03,400 right? I mean, Facebook is obviously 352 00:18:03,400 --> 00:18:06,100 doing this research on themselves, like they 353 00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:09,000 professionally. The culture is just much slower 354 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,700 to sort of digest all the different problems that these 355 00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:15,900 companies have whereas they're professionally interested as a 356 00:18:15,900 --> 00:18:19,500 regular routine in the 90s people didn't know about 357 00:18:19,500 --> 00:18:22,100 ExxonMobil, the culture, it was in the culture. 358 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:25,000 What the difference was was the no I'm not saying that people 359 00:18:25,000 --> 00:18:26,900 didn't know about. No, I was just I was actually 360 00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:31,400 harm said about like people not Ali knowing people don't 361 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,000 understand the difference was that they were finally nailed 362 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,000 through. Variety of things including 363 00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:40,000 reporting including Congressional hearings, where 364 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,200 documents came to light, showing that their critics had been 365 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:45,400 correct. I may be Exxon like the their 366 00:18:45,400 --> 00:18:47,400 initial studies happen in like the late 70s. 367 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:48,800 Yeah. They cover things up for a long 368 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:52,100 time, this might be a tangent but you know what? 369 00:18:52,100 --> 00:18:55,100 September 11th. There was this whole like 370 00:18:55,100 --> 00:19:00,100 copypasta going around around that flight where the, you know, 371 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:03,800 The people took it over and stopped it from being used by 372 00:19:03,800 --> 00:19:05,800 the hijackers. What's nine point ninety? 373 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,500 Three. I know my pet like wow the tax 374 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,600 just had our 20th anniversary, the tax light with the text 375 00:19:12,600 --> 00:19:15,400 people were posting Eric was like for was fake. 376 00:19:15,500 --> 00:19:17,500 You know it's like created by some Christian sites. 377 00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:20,700 Nopes fact checked in you know they say it ends in a prayer. 378 00:19:20,700 --> 00:19:24,500 Like it's based on truth, the facts but they like made a whole 379 00:19:24,500 --> 00:19:27,300 fake transcript. Nobody online like gives a fuck 380 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,600 about it. Probably more people read that 381 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,900 story than have ever. I read my cumulative writing 382 00:19:33,100 --> 00:19:37,200 ever and it's just like totally made up and I don't know what's 383 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:38,400 my objection here. It's just that. 384 00:19:38,400 --> 00:19:42,700 At the end of the day Facebook's capacity to distribute things is 385 00:19:42,700 --> 00:19:45,900 what you know. If you just made up one fake 386 00:19:45,900 --> 00:19:49,600 post and told it to one person that would have had a small 387 00:19:49,600 --> 00:19:52,800 impact, maybe it would have been wrong or like, deceitful, but it 388 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:56,000 would have been small. But now every major we have all 389 00:19:56,000 --> 00:20:00,100 these like fake just for the extinct because of Facebook. 390 00:20:01,700 --> 00:20:04,200 I was gonna say in part because of us because Facebook allows 391 00:20:04,200 --> 00:20:08,200 you and me to post, pretty much. We don't care about the truth. 392 00:20:08,200 --> 00:20:11,700 People don't get it then. So until Facebook, clamps down 393 00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,700 in some way, right? And our ability to post, 394 00:20:15,700 --> 00:20:19,300 whatever we want in real time, they can take it down later but 395 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:20,400 a lot of damage can be done before. 396 00:20:20,400 --> 00:20:23,400 It's taken down until that happens, it's really hard to see 397 00:20:23,400 --> 00:20:26,600 a solution but as an aside because you guys we've talked 398 00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:28,800 about BuzzFeed what's going on with Vice. 399 00:20:28,800 --> 00:20:30,400 That's that's falling apart. Like what? 400 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:31,500 Let's go. Is it? 401 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:33,100 It's not happening. Yeah, no snow. 402 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,200 Does that mean we have no voice someday with? 403 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:38,200 No, they raised. They raised more money. 404 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,600 I can, I can give a shout-out to my, former colleague, Jessica to 405 00:20:41,600 --> 00:20:44,700 Uncle who wrote the piece on it. They that you have this back 406 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:47,500 fell apart and they were able to squeeze more money out of their 407 00:20:47,500 --> 00:20:50,400 investors. And so, it's your call. 408 00:20:50,400 --> 00:20:58,700 Whether investors now that the pivot to videos, always worked 409 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:00,400 out for everyone. Yeah, it's really nice. 410 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,800 TV channel at this point. So happy I'm not writing about 411 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:07,500 this shit anymore. So walking a happy isn't vice 412 00:21:07,500 --> 00:21:11,600 vice is one of those companies where if you polled reporters 413 00:21:11,600 --> 00:21:14,600 back then everybody covering it. What it said, this is a disaster 414 00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,000 that's never going to work. Oh, is he faster? 415 00:21:17,000 --> 00:21:20,000 That's never going to work? Yeah, I mean, obviously 416 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:22,500 reporter. The reporter consensus is wrong. 417 00:21:22,500 --> 00:21:26,800 Some of the time but it it is always like, is it like, what 418 00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:28,800 are the main ones? That's interesting. 419 00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,400 Sidebar, I'd be interested to hear the Ones where you think 420 00:21:31,400 --> 00:21:33,400 the reporter can? I mean, Facebook dying in the 421 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,800 pivot to mobile Facebook? Early days? 422 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,000 We report. I mean that was before us but 423 00:21:39,000 --> 00:21:42,100 reporters were see entire mythology that the media helps 424 00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:47,500 support, that technology companies were were good forces 425 00:21:47,500 --> 00:21:50,200 for good in the world rather than John we're talking about, 426 00:21:50,200 --> 00:21:52,100 picks on, like particular valve. Okay. 427 00:21:52,100 --> 00:21:53,500 Yeah. Alright, face. 428 00:21:53,500 --> 00:21:56,100 Where reporters were super wrong on likes? 429 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:58,600 I think there were a lot of people who actually said that 430 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,700 Vice was going to be this huge force in media and then to those 431 00:22:01,700 --> 00:22:04,900 people believe it or they're just like I'm sure but it'll but 432 00:22:04,900 --> 00:22:06,400 Vice was almost all to Disney for a bit. 433 00:22:06,700 --> 00:22:09,400 Dollars if somebody believed it for a hot second more more than 434 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:09,900 that. Yeah. 435 00:22:09,900 --> 00:22:14,800 I mean it was they yeah it's a complicated story because they 436 00:22:14,900 --> 00:22:17,300 like all of these media companies raise a shitload of 437 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:21,400 money during a time where there was a belief that these digital 438 00:22:21,400 --> 00:22:24,400 media companies were actually tech companies and should be 439 00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,900 valued on these like insanely large multiples and that it 440 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:30,100 wasn't going to be two companies that swallowed up all the 441 00:22:30,108 --> 00:22:33,200 digital advertising dollars over the next couple of years. 442 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,700 And so their growth trajectory is all got completely thrown Own 443 00:22:36,700 --> 00:22:39,600 off and I don't know like buzzfeed's probably going to go 444 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,500 public through its back so we can see what that looks like. 445 00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,400 I still think a lot of these companies man were way off here, 446 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,000 like it's not like it's like the end of Candyland when you go 447 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,100 public, like, you still have to be a company. 448 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,100 Is it, is it weird for me to feel like, BuzzFeed is starting 449 00:22:54,100 --> 00:22:57,900 to be this like, receptacle for all sorts of companies that 450 00:22:57,900 --> 00:22:59,700 can't exit. So, they're just glomming onto 451 00:22:59,700 --> 00:23:01,700 buzzfeed's thing. Get out through this back. 452 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,900 Like this pack is going to collapse under the weight of 4 453 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,800 million Acquisitions before The end of the year. 454 00:23:08,500 --> 00:23:11,100 Yeah, I mean, well, this pack Market clearly is already 455 00:23:11,700 --> 00:23:14,200 falling apart anyway. I mean, I guess we should have 456 00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,100 Brian Goldberg on here some week, so he can tell us why. 457 00:23:17,100 --> 00:23:20,300 I text, you sent me a quote defending BuzzFeed for one of my 458 00:23:20,300 --> 00:23:24,000 newsletters that was like, I just obviously like, well, 459 00:23:24,000 --> 00:23:26,100 whatever's good for BuzzFeed is good for me. 460 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:29,600 So I'm gonna say, you know, I will say about about Vice. 461 00:23:29,600 --> 00:23:32,600 I don't watch their TV show because it's on cable, I mean, 462 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:36,700 that's it, unbelievably stupid, or it was, I think now, Oh, it's 463 00:23:36,700 --> 00:23:38,900 on Hulu or something. I've heard it was pretty good, 464 00:23:38,900 --> 00:23:41,700 but like their Tech reporting is good like they're, you know, 465 00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:44,100 motherboard has some pretty great stories still. 466 00:23:44,500 --> 00:23:45,200 Yeah. Yeah. 467 00:23:45,208 --> 00:23:47,500 No. Like yeah, like Joseph Cox who 468 00:23:47,500 --> 00:23:50,800 does their kind of security? Cybersecurity stories? 469 00:23:50,800 --> 00:23:54,100 Is like he will put out like a great story at least a month. 470 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,800 I'm super envious of a lot of their work. 471 00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,500 So I hope the business does well because it's like, it's still 472 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:02,200 good journalism. It's just I don't know how much 473 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:05,600 stock I put in that business model, right again, we never 474 00:24:05,600 --> 00:24:09,000 talked about how I'm so happy. Not the immediate report every 475 00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:11,800 every time we have these conversations, it makes me glad 476 00:24:11,800 --> 00:24:13,900 her and glad you saw Adam moceri. 477 00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:18,600 The head of Instagram, you who was quoted in the teen. 478 00:24:18,600 --> 00:24:21,300 Girls story was at the Met Gala, right? 479 00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:23,700 Here's one of the chairs Eric get it together. 480 00:24:23,700 --> 00:24:26,800 He was one of the she's one of the chairs and I posted the 481 00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:29,500 pictures. Like what's the beautiful eyes? 482 00:24:29,500 --> 00:24:32,000 What's the Instagram version of Let them eat cake. 483 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:36,400 Like I can't believe he went with the timing of that story. 484 00:24:36,500 --> 00:24:40,500 I mean that's true is probably in the works for so long, right? 485 00:24:40,600 --> 00:24:43,600 And he agreed to be the chair. Probably a year ago. 486 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:45,700 Yeah. Elsa. 487 00:24:45,700 --> 00:24:47,700 His outfit looked like he was like fucking Alice in 488 00:24:47,700 --> 00:24:49,700 Wonderland. I mean, everybody. 489 00:24:50,200 --> 00:24:54,600 The megaliths out. We're not very good, but You 490 00:24:54,600 --> 00:24:58,000 know, what is it about being the head of Instagram that causes 491 00:24:58,000 --> 00:25:00,300 these Executives to think that their Fashion Icon. 492 00:25:00,300 --> 00:25:01,500 Well, that's sort of interesting. 493 00:25:01,500 --> 00:25:05,000 You've actually seen a lot of people from magazines and the 494 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:09,700 fashion world like, Vanity, Fair and bow, go to Amazon, and apple 495 00:25:09,700 --> 00:25:15,400 and, you know, Instagram Etc. So, there is this weird way in 496 00:25:15,400 --> 00:25:18,500 which the fashion world has been trying to court technology in 497 00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,300 part because technology, especially Instagram has really 498 00:25:22,900 --> 00:25:27,100 taken a lot of Glossy magazine, world's clever way, not just an 499 00:25:27,100 --> 00:25:30,100 advertising but also in trend-setting. 500 00:25:30,400 --> 00:25:33,300 So if you look at what was happening with this year's New 501 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:36,300 York Fashion Week, you saw a lot of things that didn't really 502 00:25:36,300 --> 00:25:39,300 feel like they made sense, they were, they've been on a drawing 503 00:25:39,300 --> 00:25:42,900 board for a year and a half speaking to a cultural moment 504 00:25:42,900 --> 00:25:46,400 that is no longer exist because life is moving so quickly. 505 00:25:46,700 --> 00:25:48,600 And that's what we saw at New York Fashion Week. 506 00:25:48,700 --> 00:25:51,400 Whereas people who are on Instagram posting that entire 507 00:25:51,400 --> 00:25:54,100 time, they were setting and resetting micro trends. 508 00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:57,900 It's for the entire last year and that moves you know, 509 00:25:58,300 --> 00:26:00,900 commercial buying that moves merchandise. 510 00:26:00,900 --> 00:26:04,600 So you know there's a way in which vogue's ability to tell 511 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:06,800 people what they're going to wear, has been greatly 512 00:26:06,800 --> 00:26:09,600 diminished because of a company like Instagram Kevin. 513 00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:12,500 So there isn't, so there isn't but it's real value. 514 00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:15,800 Anna, Wintour wants Instagram there, I definitely think 515 00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,800 Instagram is setting fashion far more than Vogue. 516 00:26:18,800 --> 00:26:21,800 I would say even much more. Like what you're saying 10x? 517 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:24,000 I agree. 100%. I just think the laughable. 518 00:26:24,200 --> 00:26:27,200 Thing is that the person who happens to run the corporate 519 00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,400 structure that is Instagram matters no style at all in that 520 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:31,700 world. You know, like all you're doing 521 00:26:31,700 --> 00:26:34,300 is channeling like a long tail of fashion. 522 00:26:34,300 --> 00:26:37,500 People the corporate structures. I mean, if you receive your 523 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:42,600 medal and moved to San Francisco and we went, I think we went to 524 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:49,100 a bar, we met, we had to leave because I was the only reward, I 525 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:54,000 think Valencia area Mission, it was so hilarious, man ever seen. 526 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:58,500 Anything like it like he sure it's paired with slacks paired 527 00:26:58,500 --> 00:27:03,600 with man, Bernice Ox. Well, it's back to like the 528 00:27:03,600 --> 00:27:06,700 fashion Tech connection to. I mean this is what has been 529 00:27:06,700 --> 00:27:09,100 going on for a couple of years in the funniest example of it. 530 00:27:09,100 --> 00:27:12,900 To me was the I think it's still probably going to happen but the 531 00:27:12,900 --> 00:27:20,100 Vanity Fair Tech media new establishment which was mostly 532 00:27:20,100 --> 00:27:23,100 old. Entertainment Executives and 533 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:25,800 their six people, but one year, they had Kevin Systrom. 534 00:27:25,800 --> 00:27:29,800 Who was then the still the CEO of Instagram on stage with. 535 00:27:30,300 --> 00:27:33,600 I think interviewed by maybe on a winter or something like that. 536 00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:41,100 Yeah, info and Lena Dunham. And yeah, and I was seeing like 537 00:27:41,100 --> 00:27:44,900 Kevin up on stage, talking about Paris, fashion week or some shit 538 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:47,600 like that dress, like he was in sprockets or something. 539 00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:50,900 And it was like, this is something about this job. 540 00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:55,500 Yeah, something about this job, like warps the brains of tech 541 00:27:55,500 --> 00:27:58,000 Executives to think that they're, like, fashion forward 542 00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:00,600 and just just wealth. Fucking like, yeah, I guess 543 00:28:00,600 --> 00:28:02,100 that's who they're all like. Carl logging. 544 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:04,200 And like, three weeks earlier. They were. 545 00:28:04,208 --> 00:28:06,900 Yeah, they were probably hanging out on zux, like, you know, 546 00:28:06,900 --> 00:28:11,400 Kawaii compound like wearing, you know, sandals and socks and 547 00:28:11,500 --> 00:28:13,600 whatever thoughts are actually kind of in right now. 548 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:16,600 Tom are they? But that is why they get 549 00:28:16,600 --> 00:28:20,100 invited, but they but coming back to it, Eric was saying 550 00:28:20,100 --> 00:28:24,500 about how the irony of having atomos Airy at the Met Gala as 551 00:28:24,500 --> 00:28:29,600 this devastating story is coming out about his company's, you 552 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,900 know, impact on young, women was certainly not lost on a lot of 553 00:28:32,900 --> 00:28:35,800 people on social media. Also, what I found, fascinating 554 00:28:35,800 --> 00:28:39,800 about that story with it. Most Terry gave on the record 555 00:28:39,800 --> 00:28:43,000 quotes and the here they gave up all the stories they've given on 556 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:45,700 the earth. We all know the executives do 557 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:49,900 not do that, unless they think they must and that's another 558 00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:52,800 great indication. The Wall Street Journal had the 559 00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,200 goods, because there is one story, he would have gone on the 560 00:28:56,200 --> 00:29:02,100 record if he did not. I would love to know like Just 561 00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:05,500 the, who the LIE, obviously, who you want to know who's leaking, 562 00:29:05,500 --> 00:29:09,000 but like a company like Facebook, I mean, Katie maybe is 563 00:29:09,000 --> 00:29:13,400 closer to it than I am. But, I mean, they have lots of 564 00:29:13,400 --> 00:29:17,600 like X sort of democrat Obama, Thai people running around in 565 00:29:17,600 --> 00:29:20,800 high level like policy, comms job. 566 00:29:20,800 --> 00:29:24,200 I just have to imagine like execs or, you know, execs are 567 00:29:24,200 --> 00:29:28,000 flipping on them, both in policy and columns, and Leadership some 568 00:29:28,000 --> 00:29:29,700 of the people giving quotes are like. 569 00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:33,100 I mean, it's just like, at what point Point the company, it 570 00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:36,600 would be so hard to have a coherent sort of corporate 571 00:29:36,600 --> 00:29:40,800 response in an organization like Facebook, where I imagine people 572 00:29:40,800 --> 00:29:44,100 and gay people are engaging directly with those reporters 573 00:29:44,100 --> 00:29:47,500 because they have and also it's a company that tells you, you go 574 00:29:47,500 --> 00:29:49,300 there to have like these principles. 575 00:29:49,600 --> 00:29:53,400 So then everybody feels entitled to sort of, you know, defend 576 00:29:53,400 --> 00:29:57,200 themselves to the reporters. I mean, it must be a mess to 577 00:29:57,200 --> 00:30:01,200 deal with PR on that story. I cannot imagine it's sort of a 578 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:04,800 Lockdown situation. Where you have like this one 579 00:30:04,800 --> 00:30:07,700 calms person going to the Wall Street Journal and it's totally 580 00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:10,300 controlled. It must be pretty, pretty 581 00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:13,400 chaotic would be my my guess. I don't know if you guys have 582 00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,900 thoughts on that. I just wonder at this point, how 583 00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,700 much, Facebook cares? I mean, it's obviously care 584 00:30:20,700 --> 00:30:24,000 enough, well, because Zach has complete control over the board 585 00:30:24,000 --> 00:30:26,700 and everything the company dry, so he can never be removed. 586 00:30:26,700 --> 00:30:30,200 So, how much do you like when you're can never get new right? 587 00:30:30,200 --> 00:30:32,100 This isn't new for them. I mean, when the New York Times 588 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:35,000 and others did their Spate of stories, a couple years ago and 589 00:30:35,000 --> 00:30:39,700 they hauled Zuck in front of Congress multiple times and now 590 00:30:39,700 --> 00:30:43,300 Facebook is worth over a trillion dollars and it's very 591 00:30:43,300 --> 00:30:46,600 unclear, you know regulatory Why's what people are going. 592 00:30:46,600 --> 00:30:49,100 I know there are antitrust suits and those are messy and I 593 00:30:49,108 --> 00:30:51,100 definitely defer to Katie. I'm like, you know, the 594 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:53,700 trajectory that those will go on, but, like, at some point 595 00:30:53,700 --> 00:30:56,400 like Facebook, you know, they don't want to be seen as the 596 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,200 villain in public, but if they can do that, and also compensate 597 00:30:59,200 --> 00:31:02,500 people, you know, their Executives and their employees 598 00:31:02,500 --> 00:31:04,500 and the stock keeps going up for the time being. 599 00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:06,800 Maybe they're just happy to like take the punches on Twitter. 600 00:31:06,800 --> 00:31:10,300 Well, I think enough people like I don't one way to read these 601 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:14,600 stories to me, is that There are a lot of people at Facebook, 602 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,100 creating reports because they don't like Facebook, they want 603 00:31:17,100 --> 00:31:18,800 it to change. They think they should reform, 604 00:31:18,800 --> 00:31:19,900 right? Then that doesn't happen. 605 00:31:19,900 --> 00:31:22,100 Why doesn't happen? Because Mark Zuckerberg is in 606 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:23,900 charge. He's a dictator in Chief with 607 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:26,300 Sheryl Sandberg, his loyal lieutenant. 608 00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:29,400 And so even if you are a super senior, the company, you're not 609 00:31:29,400 --> 00:31:31,300 going to succeed in getting them to change. 610 00:31:31,400 --> 00:31:33,900 So then that creates a whole apparatus of people, they're 611 00:31:33,900 --> 00:31:36,700 creating the reports somehow, those reports are getting leaked 612 00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:40,900 to the Wall Street Journal. There's like, you could see a 613 00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:44,400 lot of Facebook, be no line. And with these Wall Street 614 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,700 Journal stories because they want change at the top, right? 615 00:31:48,700 --> 00:31:52,600 So, to save, Facebook thinks is sort of incoherent. 616 00:31:52,700 --> 00:31:56,200 I think you would say there's the Mark Zuckerberg view where 617 00:31:56,200 --> 00:31:59,300 he's sort of stopping all these lower level decisions and then 618 00:31:59,300 --> 00:32:02,100 there are the sort of Executives that are loyal to him. 619 00:32:02,100 --> 00:32:04,400 And then there are these sort of more sort of professional 620 00:32:04,400 --> 00:32:06,400 Executives. In the more those executives are 621 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:08,400 tied in to the actual Rank and file. 622 00:32:08,400 --> 00:32:11,600 They're going to be responsive obviously to the findings that 623 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:14,800 those rank-and-file are. Seen and are getting ignored. 624 00:32:14,900 --> 00:32:19,300 So I would love to know, I mean obviously this is a reportable 625 00:32:20,000 --> 00:32:22,100 thing that would be a frustrating to the reporters. 626 00:32:22,100 --> 00:32:25,100 Probably. But just yeah, how much of how 627 00:32:25,100 --> 00:32:28,000 much of Facebook itself is on board with? 628 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:30,600 Yeah, I don't know. The company is also trying to 629 00:32:30,600 --> 00:32:35,600 figure that out as well. I mean worship we should we 630 00:32:35,600 --> 00:32:38,500 could put a pin in this one and have Casey Newton on some time 631 00:32:38,500 --> 00:32:42,100 who obviously would know more directly than it's so hard on 632 00:32:42,300 --> 00:32:44,400 poverty. Like easier for me to say this 633 00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:46,700 because I don't have her Facebook so I can just 634 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:53,300 extrapolate from other stories, but I feel like once once you're 635 00:32:53,300 --> 00:32:56,400 on the be, the one thing you can't really talk about is the 636 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,900 level of like how much are people sort of defecting even 637 00:32:59,900 --> 00:33:04,100 when they're sort of principal actors for the company? 638 00:33:04,100 --> 00:33:07,000 I think there's zero upside and any of us ever talking about our 639 00:33:07,000 --> 00:33:11,200 sources. But every new tapes including 640 00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:14,100 that we shouldn't You don't you think? 641 00:33:14,100 --> 00:33:16,400 I'm out of school here as a reporter to say it was. 642 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,200 No, I'm just saying that I've told my sources. 643 00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:21,200 I won't tell people who they are and so I keep that promise. 644 00:33:21,200 --> 00:33:24,700 I don't know, that's our premium episodes. 645 00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:29,000 We can talk more explicitly about who we talk, but I just, I 646 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:32,600 mean these stories reflect an organization that is not happy 647 00:33:32,700 --> 00:33:35,500 tribal that you'll true. I mean, if the organization was 648 00:33:35,500 --> 00:33:38,200 happy, Banks, wouldn't really come in organizations really 649 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:41,100 naughty and they were no leaks that I'm right, this, by the 650 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:43,800 way, is like the fundamental thing that At people in Tech, 651 00:33:43,800 --> 00:33:46,800 don't understand about reporting and it happens every fucking 652 00:33:46,800 --> 00:33:49,200 time when they're just like, why to reporters keep writing 653 00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:50,700 negative stories about these companies. 654 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:53,000 And it's like because the employees that your company's 655 00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,300 don't like the way things are going. 656 00:33:54,300 --> 00:33:56,600 And I don't like working there. They're mad at you and they're 657 00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:57,800 talking to us. Yes. 658 00:33:57,800 --> 00:33:59,300 It's like you were blaming the wrong person. 659 00:33:59,300 --> 00:34:00,600 Exactly. Can you can complain on the 660 00:34:00,608 --> 00:34:02,400 margins about like angles and stuff? 661 00:34:02,400 --> 00:34:05,100 But like, you know, like the beatings will continue so long 662 00:34:05,100 --> 00:34:07,900 as morale, doesn't mean, you wouldn't want to look inside. 663 00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:09,000 Mmm. Yeah. 664 00:34:09,500 --> 00:34:11,699 But not in the way that you want to which is just to ruin. 665 00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:15,100 We actually And actually, they don't want to look inside, 666 00:34:15,300 --> 00:34:18,300 speaking of tech spending. By the way, we're coming here, 667 00:34:18,500 --> 00:34:24,300 the day after the California recall, resoundingly defeated by 668 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,100 people, actually deciding to vote. 669 00:34:26,100 --> 00:34:29,300 And I got to say, for the certain Tech Executives that 670 00:34:29,300 --> 00:34:32,699 spent money on the voting to recall, I wouldn't call that 671 00:34:32,699 --> 00:34:35,300 good Roi. Doug Leone, great investment, 672 00:34:36,300 --> 00:34:38,100 David Sachs. Well done. 673 00:34:38,100 --> 00:34:40,300 Peter teal, what did Peter tell us? 674 00:34:41,500 --> 00:34:42,900 I don't remember. I think so, yeah. 675 00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:44,100 I'm not going to weigh out on this. 676 00:34:44,100 --> 00:34:48,300 You guys stop it. You can your business reporter? 677 00:34:49,600 --> 00:34:53,900 You can talk about Roi. Like it's like, I just it's not 678 00:34:53,900 --> 00:34:59,100 it's because I did not, I am not as I didn't do it. 679 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:03,100 I didn't study the California recall as Tom did or you did. 680 00:35:03,100 --> 00:35:05,800 And so I would just be I don't like to speak about things. 681 00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,800 I know nothing about. Yeah, well we could come back to 682 00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,300 this one another time but I would say the every no vote Next 683 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:16,200 Shopkins book, the contrary and I'm a fifth of the way through 684 00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:18,900 its good and good. It really frames so far. 685 00:35:19,300 --> 00:35:23,300 The whole Peter teal world is like a sort of political Club, 686 00:35:23,400 --> 00:35:26,500 more than anything that a big you know, David Sachs Keith her 687 00:35:26,500 --> 00:35:28,800 boys. Like the thing they shared was 688 00:35:29,400 --> 00:35:33,200 conservative libertarian incoherent in some cases 689 00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:37,800 politics and so it's super interesting light of the recall 690 00:35:37,800 --> 00:35:40,900 effort, but I think everybody we should finish reading. 691 00:35:41,500 --> 00:35:42,700 You guys should get the book I should fit. 692 00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:43,900 Yeah. Yeah, before we talk, I'm 693 00:35:43,900 --> 00:35:47,500 excited to read it. I'm I wonder though with Peter 694 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,900 teal, does the media over rate, how important he is? 695 00:35:51,500 --> 00:35:55,800 He's on the board of Facebook. I mean he's I mean, he was the 696 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,600 president's around people just want to say. 697 00:35:58,000 --> 00:36:01,400 I mean, it's like, do we do well, here does the media over 698 00:36:01,400 --> 00:36:02,700 rate. How important the president 699 00:36:02,700 --> 00:36:05,900 United States is like, I guess, maybe, but like Peters. 700 00:36:05,900 --> 00:36:07,400 That's a lie. That's a lie. 701 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:17,500 It was like the biggest most important donor to President 702 00:36:17,500 --> 00:36:20,700 Trump, right? I mean, he will go do, I do 703 00:36:20,700 --> 00:36:24,000 things like Robert Mercer lung terms of his political influence 704 00:36:24,100 --> 00:36:28,600 and in terms of his business influence, I mean he's on the 705 00:36:28,600 --> 00:36:29,700 board of one of the scariest come. 706 00:36:29,700 --> 00:36:31,600 He's a billionaire. All these guys have these. 707 00:36:31,600 --> 00:36:33,500 All these guys have power in ways that I never fully 708 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:37,100 understand but I just don't want to go too far in this because 709 00:36:37,100 --> 00:36:39,500 I'm looking forward to reading my exes, but Zuckerberg is more 710 00:36:39,500 --> 00:36:41,200 important than Peter teal. Is that the question? 711 00:36:41,400 --> 00:36:43,300 Certainly, the Pure or the coke Brothers. 712 00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:44,400 Or the living one? Yeah. 713 00:36:47,100 --> 00:36:48,900 What? Living one? 714 00:36:49,100 --> 00:36:55,700 He didn't go back to the tape on that replay. 715 00:36:56,200 --> 00:36:58,500 Yeah. I just I mean, I don't know that 716 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:01,500 ranking extremely wealthy, people who are able to call, 717 00:37:01,500 --> 00:37:03,800 almost anybody at the world, when it whoever they want, 718 00:37:03,800 --> 00:37:07,000 whenever they want is really a useful exercise, but like I'll 719 00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:08,100 do it. I guess. 720 00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:11,700 No, I would agree is to Proclaim his that if you control attack 721 00:37:11,700 --> 00:37:15,500 platform, Like Facebook or Twitter, you're more powerful 722 00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:19,000 than people who just have money. I don't know if Tom is I would 723 00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:20,900 buy on to that. Here's my question. 724 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:25,600 Here's my contrarian question. It's like Duggar does the media 725 00:37:25,600 --> 00:37:29,600 over rate his particular does he Loom very large in the mind of a 726 00:37:29,600 --> 00:37:34,000 lot of reporters because of his role in The Gawker suit that you 727 00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:37,900 know very specifically cast him as but he succeed at what one of 728 00:37:37,900 --> 00:37:40,400 the biggest villains. So much of politics is all T 729 00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,300 fucking killed a new site like that's right. 730 00:37:42,300 --> 00:37:45,100 No one's done. Done that before and and you 731 00:37:45,100 --> 00:37:47,900 know where he funded a suit that that effectively did that. 732 00:37:47,900 --> 00:37:51,500 And I shall I just wonder, I mean freedom of the press. 733 00:37:51,500 --> 00:37:53,600 Yeah. I mean that's real impact. 734 00:37:53,600 --> 00:37:56,400 Yeah and I just wanted had that not happened but he still was a 735 00:37:56,408 --> 00:37:59,600 guy that gave money to Trump in was you know sitting at the 736 00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:02,600 right hand and all that other stuff if he would matter as much 737 00:38:02,600 --> 00:38:04,300 but Gawker is how we just covered in. 738 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:07,900 Just give us an example of why he matters more than other 739 00:38:07,900 --> 00:38:09,600 investors. You literally just gave us an 740 00:38:09,600 --> 00:38:11,600 example of why he matters more than other investors. 741 00:38:11,600 --> 00:38:14,800 He was a mistake. The reason he killed Gawker was, 742 00:38:14,800 --> 00:38:18,100 he was getting covered a ton of already so be even even aside 743 00:38:18,100 --> 00:38:20,700 from the reason he was right. Even aside from the reason he 744 00:38:20,700 --> 00:38:24,500 killed it, the fact that by your own admission, he did something 745 00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:26,400 no other really investors ever done. 746 00:38:26,500 --> 00:38:29,500 That had run short of an impact on the press and an impact and 747 00:38:29,500 --> 00:38:34,000 we think of like how money can stifle freedom of the press that 748 00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,400 doesn't that indicate that he is possibly more important than 749 00:38:37,400 --> 00:38:39,700 other investors? I'm not saying things like some 750 00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:42,000 Puppet Master. I'm saying the time like Tom's 751 00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:51,300 the one dressed like he's I know and understand and that, you 752 00:38:51,300 --> 00:38:54,900 know, basically says that there were a lot of crazy, kooky sort 753 00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:59,600 of anti-climate change, level type people that teal suggested 754 00:38:59,600 --> 00:39:03,000 Trumbo Point. And even you know, the Trump 755 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:08,500 people were Steve band and we're like, these are two kooky for us 756 00:39:08,700 --> 00:39:11,100 and teal didn't get a lot of those but I mean, some of, you 757 00:39:11,100 --> 00:39:14,200 know, the CTO was a teal I think there were some people. 758 00:39:14,300 --> 00:39:17,200 There are teal guys over the administration but it sure. 759 00:39:17,200 --> 00:39:19,400 Could he pick the Secretary of Defense? 760 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,400 It didn't seem like it. So, yeah, I mean, I don't, but I 761 00:39:22,408 --> 00:39:25,400 don't really believe in Puppet Masters, but in terms of 762 00:39:25,600 --> 00:39:28,000 billionaires that are super powerful, I think he's much more 763 00:39:28,000 --> 00:39:31,900 powerful than his actual wealth, or there are much richer people, 764 00:39:31,900 --> 00:39:36,300 there are less less powerful. I have very realistic. 765 00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:40,000 I got a, I have to I have to make this phone call. 766 00:39:40,700 --> 00:39:42,700 It's because I need this information. 767 00:39:42,800 --> 00:39:48,900 And so I gotta go unlike Eric. I'm I'm not gonna tell you who 768 00:39:48,900 --> 00:39:53,700 my sources are. I didn't tell him Eric's, not 769 00:39:53,700 --> 00:39:56,900 going to pressure me into revealing how I get information 770 00:39:57,500 --> 00:40:00,200 joking. No, I do have to go because I 771 00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:02,300 have to make this call and great. 772 00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,800 So I hope that you guys are good of America, you know? 773 00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:09,300 I hope you come up with a definitive ranking of which Tech 774 00:40:09,300 --> 00:40:12,500 billionaires are the most influential vis-à-vis, how much 775 00:40:12,500 --> 00:40:16,400 they're By the press and please shoot that over to me because 776 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:18,600 I'm curious to see it. It's a changing. 777 00:40:18,600 --> 00:40:20,700 It will be exchanging. Yeah, it'll be like a power 778 00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:21,500 ranking list. Yeah. 779 00:40:21,500 --> 00:40:23,700 Get. Can we start doing a power 780 00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:26,200 ranking list on the pool? Yeah, well, we could run in my 781 00:40:26,200 --> 00:40:28,500 work, my friends desperately want me to do more power 782 00:40:28,500 --> 00:40:34,200 rankings, just for clickability. I've been opposed to truly sort 783 00:40:34,200 --> 00:40:38,700 of capricious judgments just because I have a following, but 784 00:40:38,700 --> 00:40:41,600 I do think it'd be good. People want to consume list of 785 00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,400 who's in, who's out? Shouts. 786 00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,100 Oh yeah, absolutely. Well isn't that all that she you 787 00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:49,200 know I'm actually getting slacked out by co-workers to I 788 00:40:49,200 --> 00:40:58,900 guess I do my God. Yeah. 789 00:41:00,400 --> 00:41:01,600 Eric you have to do the same job. 790 00:41:01,600 --> 00:41:04,000 We have to do is just you have no boxes, all right? 791 00:41:04,000 --> 00:41:06,100 Exactly. So I can procrastinate then do 792 00:41:06,100 --> 00:41:09,800 it at two in the morning and run a very good sort of mental 793 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:13,600 health experience, right? You're also offer Two weeks to. 794 00:41:13,600 --> 00:41:16,900 So you better you better burn that oil for the next couple 795 00:41:16,900 --> 00:41:19,100 days while Katie and I have to figure out what to talk about. 796 00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,200 Yeah. All right we can we can call it 797 00:41:21,500 --> 00:41:23,700 though. Okay bye. 798 00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,300 Bye Katie. So I guess once again We've 799 00:41:26,300 --> 00:41:29,600 Ended episode with Katie having to do a real job and now she 800 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,800 disappear last episode. Yes, yes, she disappeared 801 00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,800 because there wouldn't even last episode is coming into her movie 802 00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:38,900 theater and she had to like, talk them down and then when she 803 00:41:38,900 --> 00:41:40,600 came back on the zoom called, we were already gone. 804 00:41:40,900 --> 00:41:43,300 But we ended the last episode without her and I think that's 805 00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:44,800 gonna have to be like a weekly thing. 806 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,800 Now she's only the, he's a special guests. 807 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,200 It's her, it's her duties. Maybe don't include your Napa. 808 00:41:52,200 --> 00:42:06,700 So yeah, she's a pain. So, work on Sally, goodbye. 809 00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:08,000 Goodbye. Goodbye. 810 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:10,000 Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye. 811 00:42:10,000 --> 00:41:44,800 Goodbye. think that's gonna have to be like a weekly thing. 812 00:41:44,800 --> 00:41:48,800 Now she's only the, he's a special guests. 813 00:41:48,800 --> 00:41:52,200 It's her, it's her duties. Maybe don't include your Napa. 814 00:41:52,200 --> 00:42:06,700 So yeah, she's a pain. So, work on Sally, goodbye. 815 00:42:06,700 --> 00:42:08,000 Goodbye. Goodbye. 816 00:42:08,100 --> 00:42:10,000 Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye. 817 00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:10,400 Goodbye.