1 00:00:01,520 --> 00:00:04,280 Hey, I'm Eric Newcomer. This week we have Rebecca Cayden 2 00:00:04,280 --> 00:00:06,160 on the show from Union Square Ventures. 3 00:00:06,160 --> 00:00:08,480 Great episode. We start off talking about 4 00:00:08,480 --> 00:00:11,040 psychedelics only gets more from from there. 5 00:00:11,040 --> 00:00:15,320 We talked about US V's climate fund, the downturn, her career 6 00:00:15,320 --> 00:00:17,840 in venture capital. I think you're really enjoying 7 00:00:17,840 --> 00:00:19,080 the episode. Give it a list. 8 00:00:19,920 --> 00:00:23,360 It's Eric Newcomer here with Rebecca Cayden at Union Square 9 00:00:23,360 --> 00:00:25,880 Ventures. Very excited to have you on the 10 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:27,880 podcast. Thanks for joining me. 11 00:00:28,400 --> 00:00:29,920 Thanks for having me. This is fun. 12 00:00:30,240 --> 00:00:34,960 I think we first met when you were at Mavron. 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:38,640 We had dinner at one of maybe the mission Burma love. 14 00:00:38,680 --> 00:00:40,840 Yeah, it's so good. I haven't been there in a long 15 00:00:40,840 --> 00:00:43,840 time, but it's delicious. And then I've seen you. 16 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,840 I think especially memorable was the first Slow Ventures summit 17 00:00:48,840 --> 00:00:50,680 for sort of the UP and comers were right. 18 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,920 You were sort of like the, I've made it, you know, I'm at USV 19 00:00:55,120 --> 00:01:00,070 but I can sort of give the wisdom, yeah, to everybody else 20 00:01:00,070 --> 00:01:01,950 a little earlier in their careers. 21 00:01:01,950 --> 00:01:04,470 Anyway, a lot to talk about on the episode. 22 00:01:04,510 --> 00:01:07,750 I mean I think later on maybe we'll talk about some of that 23 00:01:07,750 --> 00:01:11,670 like you know, venture career stuff and sort of being at USV 24 00:01:12,030 --> 00:01:14,190 and sort of the downturn which is interesting. 25 00:01:14,550 --> 00:01:18,630 But you know, you have some fun portfolio companies and I wanted 26 00:01:18,630 --> 00:01:24,110 to jump in, in particular just talking about Journey Clinical, 27 00:01:24,110 --> 00:01:28,050 which you've told me some about, but you know is in sort of the 28 00:01:28,730 --> 00:01:32,210 is psychedelics 2 strong words psychedelic space or what? 29 00:01:32,810 --> 00:01:35,530 Tell us a little bit about Journey Clinical and how you got 30 00:01:35,530 --> 00:01:39,690 excited about that company. Yeah, Journey Clinical is a 31 00:01:39,690 --> 00:01:44,090 network of therapists. And what Journey does is provide 32 00:01:44,090 --> 00:01:48,290 education and access for therapists to learn about and 33 00:01:48,290 --> 00:01:50,770 prescribe and utilize the newest. 34 00:01:51,070 --> 00:01:53,950 Treatments and options with their patients. 35 00:01:54,150 --> 00:01:57,470 Right now the focus is on psychedelics and particularly 36 00:01:57,470 --> 00:02:00,310 ketamine. But over time as new treatments 37 00:02:00,310 --> 00:02:04,630 evolve and get regulated and become available, Journey is the 38 00:02:04,630 --> 00:02:08,669 go to platform for their members to learn about them, understand 39 00:02:08,669 --> 00:02:12,510 how to use them and for their patients to get prescribed as 40 00:02:12,510 --> 00:02:14,590 they need to. You know, our thesis there 41 00:02:14,590 --> 00:02:17,790 really starts at a higher elevation with our, you know, 42 00:02:17,790 --> 00:02:19,350 thoughts on mental health, I think. 43 00:02:19,750 --> 00:02:22,550 You know, it's now relatively common wisdom that we've moved 44 00:02:22,550 --> 00:02:25,910 from a, you know, mental health problem to a full on mental 45 00:02:25,910 --> 00:02:28,310 health crisis in this country. I think it's, you know, one of 46 00:02:28,310 --> 00:02:31,070 the top three epidemics that we're facing. 47 00:02:31,430 --> 00:02:34,470 You know, there's kind of like. Climate change, you know, 48 00:02:34,630 --> 00:02:37,750 actually, there's probably many other epidemics, but it's a big 49 00:02:37,750 --> 00:02:39,870 one, right? And it's actually too many to 50 00:02:39,870 --> 00:02:41,950 name change tracks to another USB fun. 51 00:02:41,950 --> 00:02:43,470 You're like, oh, we've got a fun for all the. 52 00:02:43,470 --> 00:02:46,830 Big all the major crises of our time, but this is one of them 53 00:02:46,870 --> 00:02:49,870 and it's pervasive and it actually relates to a lot of 54 00:02:49,870 --> 00:02:54,150 other crises that we're facing around climate polarization, you 55 00:02:54,150 --> 00:02:56,230 know, loneliness. And it's something we talk about 56 00:02:56,230 --> 00:02:59,310 a lot and we've been very interested in it from a venture 57 00:02:59,310 --> 00:03:00,910 business perspective. The 1st. 58 00:03:01,280 --> 00:03:04,400 Kind of generation of mental health companies, we're really 59 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:07,280 around access to care and that's a bucket that we've played in as 60 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:10,760 well and believe create really good businesses and will go on 61 00:03:10,760 --> 00:03:13,720 to create great outcomes. But it's primarily around 62 00:03:13,720 --> 00:03:16,080 bringing that care online and getting it paid for. 63 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,480 Those are two extremely important things and one 64 00:03:19,480 --> 00:03:22,600 interesting thing to me about that is that market alone. 65 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:26,280 I think it's going to support dozens of billion dollar 66 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:28,320 companies, maybe more we can all think of. 67 00:03:28,840 --> 00:03:31,040 A fair number. I think that market has turned 68 00:03:31,040 --> 00:03:34,480 out to be way more powerful, the market, sorry, that market 69 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,040 being. Access to mental health care, 70 00:03:37,080 --> 00:03:41,640 right, Getting mental health care online and paid for, right. 71 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,920 In our portfolio, we think about Brave Health. 72 00:03:43,920 --> 00:03:47,000 There's also, you know, whether it's all more or headway or 73 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:49,600 spring or lira, there's a lot of these, right? 74 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:53,880 And many of them are very good businesses and important ones 75 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:57,190 and you know. Are are constrained on supply 76 00:03:57,190 --> 00:03:59,630 and demand despite the number in the market because there's so 77 00:03:59,630 --> 00:04:03,270 many elements of mental health care to touch that need that 78 00:04:03,270 --> 00:04:07,390 access to be provided. People are fascinated by, you 79 00:04:07,390 --> 00:04:11,230 know the USV sort of process. I mean obviously the returns 80 00:04:11,510 --> 00:04:13,590 speak for themselves. I mean, I was just talking to 81 00:04:13,590 --> 00:04:18,230 one of your partners about case tax, you know, which sold for 82 00:04:18,230 --> 00:04:22,430 $650 million to Thompson Reuters and it's like, you know, it 83 00:04:22,430 --> 00:04:25,430 didn't really have a business model when you guys invested 84 00:04:25,430 --> 00:04:28,670 into some degree, that's what was like appealing. 85 00:04:29,110 --> 00:04:32,550 So I guess, you know, people want to know, like how you sort 86 00:04:32,550 --> 00:04:35,910 of repeatedly invest in weird things or like, how do you find 87 00:04:35,910 --> 00:04:39,670 something that sort of feels out there but is like you're doing 88 00:04:39,670 --> 00:04:42,230 it over and over again? I actually think this is a good 89 00:04:42,230 --> 00:04:44,390 example if we kind of keep pulling the thread of how 90 00:04:44,390 --> 00:04:46,230 Journey clinical came to be, right? 91 00:04:46,230 --> 00:04:48,980 Because. This thesis around access to 92 00:04:48,980 --> 00:04:51,700 care, which has attracted so much capital, some of it ours, 93 00:04:51,700 --> 00:04:54,980 and is proving to be a good category, you know, has been 94 00:04:54,980 --> 00:04:58,100 where the market has gone, but is actually only one piece of 95 00:04:58,100 --> 00:04:59,940 the puzzle. And so the way we get into 96 00:04:59,940 --> 00:05:03,300 things that are unusual is by having strong theses about where 97 00:05:03,300 --> 00:05:06,300 things are going versus being, you know, extremely 98 00:05:06,300 --> 00:05:08,740 opportunistic. And obviously there's a balance, 99 00:05:08,740 --> 00:05:12,180 but that thesis thinking is important, and a lot of thesis 100 00:05:12,180 --> 00:05:15,380 work on this category really led to the belief that access to 101 00:05:15,380 --> 00:05:17,460 care is only half the puzzle. Right. 102 00:05:17,460 --> 00:05:21,460 And the other is how is care itself going to evolve and you 103 00:05:21,460 --> 00:05:23,500 start unraveling that thread. Okay. 104 00:05:23,500 --> 00:05:27,820 How is care itself evolving? The real biggest last evolution 105 00:05:27,820 --> 00:05:32,420 of care is Ssri's, and those have been extremely successful 106 00:05:32,420 --> 00:05:34,340 and have done a lot of great things. 107 00:05:34,340 --> 00:05:36,580 Those are drugs to treat depression, basically. 108 00:05:36,580 --> 00:05:38,140 Yes, those are prescription drugs. 109 00:05:38,580 --> 00:05:42,260 You know, the roster that you've heard about and have been very 110 00:05:42,260 --> 00:05:44,820 important to the treatment for mental health crises. 111 00:05:44,820 --> 00:05:46,810 But. There's a lot of things they 112 00:05:46,810 --> 00:05:48,970 don't treat. They're not A1 size fits all 113 00:05:48,970 --> 00:05:51,850 model and they're basically all we got right. 114 00:05:51,850 --> 00:05:55,850 The innovation has not, you know, had a lot of other layers 115 00:05:56,330 --> 00:05:59,770 except for psychedelics. And so we've became very 116 00:05:59,770 --> 00:06:03,850 interested in psychedelics as you know, the next card to get 117 00:06:03,850 --> 00:06:07,530 turned over and the next option in needing a bucket of options 118 00:06:07,530 --> 00:06:10,350 to treat a crisis. And then you start, you know, 119 00:06:10,510 --> 00:06:13,430 talking to clinicians and researchers and therapists and 120 00:06:13,430 --> 00:06:16,110 understanding that we're really at a tipping point on it, right. 121 00:06:16,110 --> 00:06:19,990 Ketamine has been a legal drug for actually you know, quite a 122 00:06:19,990 --> 00:06:22,190 long time. That's not really new. 123 00:06:22,190 --> 00:06:25,950 And MDMA and psilocybin are progressing through clinical 124 00:06:25,950 --> 00:06:29,030 trials, you know pretty rapidly and there's becoming large 125 00:06:29,030 --> 00:06:33,950 clinical acceptance towards their role in treating mental 126 00:06:33,950 --> 00:06:38,020 health problems, but. There's also desire for it to be 127 00:06:38,020 --> 00:06:41,860 done in a controlled way and through the infrastructure of an 128 00:06:41,860 --> 00:06:43,260 ecosystem that's already in place. 129 00:06:43,260 --> 00:06:46,540 And so we were looking for that. How do you leverage the mental 130 00:06:46,540 --> 00:06:50,220 health ecosystem the therapists that are experts at this but 131 00:06:50,220 --> 00:06:53,180 also give them access to the newest options and that's how we 132 00:06:53,180 --> 00:06:56,580 got to journey clinical. Well, you know, whenever I, you 133 00:06:56,580 --> 00:07:02,260 know, sort of healthcare less somewhat to climate, there's the 134 00:07:02,260 --> 00:07:04,420 question of like why is this like a venture problem And 135 00:07:04,420 --> 00:07:08,660 outside of the existing, you know, medical system, like, I 136 00:07:08,660 --> 00:07:12,180 mean there are pharmaceutical companies, like why if there's 137 00:07:12,180 --> 00:07:15,060 money to be made, shouldn't they be trying like what's happening 138 00:07:15,060 --> 00:07:18,980 that it feels like you need a real sort of outsider thinking 139 00:07:18,980 --> 00:07:23,220 to bring ketamine, a drug, you know, that's legal to people's 140 00:07:23,220 --> 00:07:27,660 lives, that the medical system is unable or unwilling to do 141 00:07:27,660 --> 00:07:30,140 what's happening there? Well, this isn't really unique 142 00:07:30,260 --> 00:07:32,060 to psychedelics or to mental health. 143 00:07:32,340 --> 00:07:34,660 You know pharmaceutical companies make drugs. 144 00:07:35,190 --> 00:07:37,870 So the development of drugs falls with them, but the 145 00:07:37,870 --> 00:07:41,470 distribution and networks of access is outside of it and 146 00:07:41,470 --> 00:07:44,790 that's not particularly new or unique here. 147 00:07:44,790 --> 00:07:46,910 That's where business opportunity has been. 148 00:07:46,990 --> 00:07:51,070 So the idea is when you talk about distribution and networks 149 00:07:51,070 --> 00:07:54,630 of access, that's often where these business opportunities 150 00:07:54,630 --> 00:07:56,630 lie. You know, the development of 151 00:07:56,630 --> 00:07:59,190 drugs is kind of a different beast, which lies in the 152 00:07:59,190 --> 00:08:01,570 pharmaceuticals. But you know, why is there a 153 00:08:01,570 --> 00:08:04,010 business opportunity with creating access? 154 00:08:04,010 --> 00:08:06,690 Because the same reason technology drives business 155 00:08:06,690 --> 00:08:10,370 opportunity into anything. Offline access is slower, It's 156 00:08:10,370 --> 00:08:12,730 more gated, it's more piecemeal, right? 157 00:08:12,730 --> 00:08:14,730 You have to be at the right doctor at the right time. 158 00:08:14,730 --> 00:08:18,330 You have to find it. And then by creating a network, 159 00:08:18,530 --> 00:08:24,170 you just allow anyone anywhere to find access and education at 160 00:08:24,210 --> 00:08:28,570 a, you know, faster speed and with much broader supply, which 161 00:08:28,570 --> 00:08:33,000 brings efficiency to the market. This was Series A, right or like 162 00:08:33,000 --> 00:08:36,120 how far along his journey, on their journey. 163 00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:39,200 Yeah. Series A, but has grown rapidly 164 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:43,080 like as you know, we invested in, call it November and it's 165 00:08:43,720 --> 00:08:47,760 Forex, maybe more since then. So it's, you know that I think 166 00:08:47,920 --> 00:08:50,320 they're a great team and have executed white well, but there's 167 00:08:50,320 --> 00:08:53,960 also strong tailwinds to this market that they're in on the 168 00:08:53,960 --> 00:08:56,640 regulatory side of it. Like, do you think, like, 169 00:08:57,070 --> 00:09:00,270 mushrooms are going to be sort of on the table soon or how much 170 00:09:00,270 --> 00:09:04,510 was this a bet that, yeah, the regulatory regime would change? 171 00:09:05,590 --> 00:09:08,830 I don't think mushrooms, as we think about them in, you know, a 172 00:09:08,830 --> 00:09:11,550 recreational sense are just going to get legalized. 173 00:09:11,790 --> 00:09:13,790 Maybe they will, but that's a separate kind of thing. 174 00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:17,670 I think other forms of psychedelics in, you know, 175 00:09:17,670 --> 00:09:21,510 formats that are right for care are very much going to get 176 00:09:21,510 --> 00:09:23,190 legalized. And actually, as we did our 177 00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:25,950 research, to us that's a when, not an if. 178 00:09:26,310 --> 00:09:28,550 You know when you dig into what's going on clinical trials 179 00:09:28,550 --> 00:09:32,710 and in that clinical world in some ways that seems you know 180 00:09:33,550 --> 00:09:36,230 pretty easy to bet on that these will continue to happen. 181 00:09:36,230 --> 00:09:39,550 And if not exactly the forms that we've outlined, rapid new 182 00:09:39,550 --> 00:09:44,110 forms of that options for care for mental health diseases are 183 00:09:44,110 --> 00:09:48,310 going to get, you know, approved and released and really have to 184 00:09:48,310 --> 00:09:51,350 and they're going to need a network of education. 185 00:09:51,820 --> 00:09:55,620 And distribution to go into to the therapist network and you 186 00:09:55,620 --> 00:09:58,740 know Journey isn't unique to a format, it should cover them. 187 00:09:59,100 --> 00:10:02,340 I do think there's regulatory risk here, but I actually 188 00:10:02,580 --> 00:10:05,580 obviously there's some amount of regulatory risk on psychedelics, 189 00:10:05,580 --> 00:10:06,620 right. We have to be honest about it. 190 00:10:06,620 --> 00:10:12,540 But I actually think more about regulatory risk across broader. 191 00:10:12,990 --> 00:10:16,910 Online healthcare in general. And I think we're at somewhat of 192 00:10:17,030 --> 00:10:22,230 a time of just still that whole market still getting worked out 193 00:10:22,270 --> 00:10:25,830 on not unique to mental health and not unique to psychedelics, 194 00:10:25,830 --> 00:10:28,830 but what you can prescribe online and to whom and to how 195 00:10:28,830 --> 00:10:32,790 and how to, you know, allow that really important access that 196 00:10:32,790 --> 00:10:35,830 we've come to rely on, but also do it in a you know, 197 00:10:35,830 --> 00:10:38,350 appropriately controlled way. Yeah. 198 00:10:38,350 --> 00:10:41,710 I mean, there's been sort of a fair bit of skeptical coverage 199 00:10:41,710 --> 00:10:48,450 about sort of the Adderall prescribing companies like Done. 200 00:10:48,490 --> 00:10:52,850 I mean, this sort of COVID era being able to prescribe drugs 201 00:10:52,850 --> 00:10:57,730 over video chat was obviously sort of hugely important to 202 00:10:57,730 --> 00:11:01,610 those companies. How much is that key to Journey 203 00:11:01,610 --> 00:11:04,850 and like yeah, what do you think about sort of the impact of sort 204 00:11:04,850 --> 00:11:08,370 of the more ADHD focused companies? 205 00:11:08,890 --> 00:11:11,960 So with Journey. Obviously, right now they 206 00:11:11,960 --> 00:11:16,280 utilize the ability to prescribe through online appointments. 207 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:19,400 They do so through a lot of controls and I think in a very 208 00:11:19,720 --> 00:11:22,600 kind of specific and defined way. 209 00:11:22,960 --> 00:11:25,880 If they couldn't, they have a lot of other plans that you can 210 00:11:26,080 --> 00:11:28,520 do it with offline appointments that they could shift to. 211 00:11:28,520 --> 00:11:31,880 So it's not so dependent on that format, but for them and many 212 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:34,680 others, it creates efficiency and a level of access that's 213 00:11:34,680 --> 00:11:36,200 really beneficial to the category. 214 00:11:36,640 --> 00:11:38,160 That being said, it can be abused. 215 00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:40,280 Right. And I think what we are seeing 216 00:11:40,280 --> 00:11:46,360 in this market is that I believe that, you know, one, businesses 217 00:11:46,360 --> 00:11:50,000 play out to the incentives that they're created with, not the 218 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:53,000 kind of good or bad intense of the, you know, founders 219 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:56,160 involved, right. So often times the mistakes made 220 00:11:56,160 --> 00:11:59,000 aren't malicious. It's that if you create a 221 00:11:59,000 --> 00:12:04,080 business model you know and you get scale, the business model 222 00:12:04,080 --> 00:12:06,160 will play out to the incentives that give it scale. 223 00:12:06,630 --> 00:12:10,430 And so if the incentive is purely sell more drugs, right, 224 00:12:10,750 --> 00:12:13,350 you will sell more drugs if you start to create scale and you 225 00:12:13,350 --> 00:12:15,790 will do internally what you need to in the business to make that 226 00:12:15,790 --> 00:12:18,230 happen. And if you don't have checks and 227 00:12:18,230 --> 00:12:21,870 balances internally and you don't have kind of catches to 228 00:12:21,870 --> 00:12:24,950 make sure that quality is an important piece of the business 229 00:12:24,950 --> 00:12:28,350 model who you're prescribing to. You know, making sure that goes 230 00:12:28,350 --> 00:12:32,190 to the right person when and the right appointments happen, You 231 00:12:32,190 --> 00:12:35,230 know, I think it can get away from you very quickly and I 232 00:12:35,230 --> 00:12:38,830 think we've seen that in the. Market here, but I am concerned 233 00:12:38,870 --> 00:12:42,590 that you know mistakes of this market getting developed that 234 00:12:42,590 --> 00:12:46,630 were really problematic might create problems horizontally 235 00:12:46,630 --> 00:12:49,990 that we just have to be prepared to face when kind of moving you 236 00:12:49,990 --> 00:12:53,950 know digital healthcare forward moving beyond you know this 237 00:12:53,950 --> 00:12:56,190 investment. I'm curious, I mean I mentioned 238 00:12:56,190 --> 00:12:59,070 in the beginning of the show, you know I met you coming from 239 00:12:59,110 --> 00:13:03,760 Mavron which was a very consumer focused firm and you know I've 240 00:13:03,760 --> 00:13:07,760 had Sarah Toble on a couple episodes ago and sort of took 241 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:11,320 stock on the state of consumer. I'm curious like when you were 242 00:13:11,320 --> 00:13:14,720 interviewing with USV, was it clear in your mind you would be 243 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:18,280 sort of shifting away from consumer and like what 244 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:23,520 percentage of like consumer have you been doing since moving 245 00:13:23,520 --> 00:13:24,920 over? And how have you thought about 246 00:13:24,920 --> 00:13:27,920 it sort of professionally in this sort of period where 247 00:13:28,270 --> 00:13:31,150 consumers get tough and there are sort of big swings and you 248 00:13:31,190 --> 00:13:32,990 know it's, I don't know, it's a challenge. 249 00:13:33,670 --> 00:13:35,710 Yeah. I mean, we can table this, but I 250 00:13:35,710 --> 00:13:39,430 actually think consumer is about to become exciting in new ways. 251 00:13:39,430 --> 00:13:42,710 But you know, all right, well, I will circle back to that right. 252 00:13:42,750 --> 00:13:45,190 Now if you can circle back to that, but I think you know. 253 00:13:45,990 --> 00:13:48,910 Firms all have different designs and kind of cut the world in 254 00:13:48,910 --> 00:13:51,670 different ways. Mavron cut the world by being a 255 00:13:52,030 --> 00:13:55,430 category focused firm on consumer and doing that super 256 00:13:55,430 --> 00:13:58,510 well and by having those guard rails was able to develop 257 00:13:58,510 --> 00:14:02,110 expertise and brand and network in direct to consumer 258 00:14:02,110 --> 00:14:04,540 businesses. USV just cuts the world in a 259 00:14:04,540 --> 00:14:07,020 different way and I definitely knew that you know going in and 260 00:14:07,020 --> 00:14:09,220 it was something that and it is something that I'm excited 261 00:14:09,220 --> 00:14:12,060 about. We don't think a lot about kind 262 00:14:12,060 --> 00:14:14,780 of the divide in our portfolio. If we think about our fun 263 00:14:14,780 --> 00:14:16,980 construction or you know how we're looking at the world 264 00:14:16,980 --> 00:14:21,540 between consumer and B to B, what we think about is this 265 00:14:21,540 --> 00:14:25,220 thesis and kind of the mechanics involved, for instance, you 266 00:14:25,220 --> 00:14:28,300 know? The role of building network 267 00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:31,980 driven businesses and the opportunity to leverage you know 268 00:14:31,980 --> 00:14:36,060 bottom up networks to create modes and scale and to broaden 269 00:14:36,060 --> 00:14:39,580 access by driving you know value and down costs systematically 270 00:14:39,580 --> 00:14:42,780 across you know categories. We care about. 271 00:14:42,860 --> 00:14:46,340 You know, capital, well-being, knowledge and sometimes the 272 00:14:46,340 --> 00:14:49,700 right application when you pull the threads of that thesis is a 273 00:14:49,700 --> 00:14:53,260 consumer, you know, product or service and sometimes. 274 00:14:53,680 --> 00:14:55,560 It's the enabling infrastructure of them. 275 00:14:55,800 --> 00:14:58,600 But most of Usb's investments have been one of those two 276 00:14:58,600 --> 00:15:00,600 things. They've either been the end 277 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,760 application or the enabling infrastructure involved. 278 00:15:04,130 --> 00:15:08,170 But a common theme throughout our investments is how do you 279 00:15:08,170 --> 00:15:12,130 build important networks that can change industries but rise 280 00:15:12,130 --> 00:15:14,130 outside of them. Like if you think about journey 281 00:15:14,130 --> 00:15:16,690 clinical right, it's a network, it's a network of therapists, 282 00:15:16,690 --> 00:15:19,130 they're stronger the more you add on to them. 283 00:15:19,330 --> 00:15:22,170 It's a bottom up growing network of acquiring the therapist even 284 00:15:22,170 --> 00:15:24,850 though it interacts with the healthcare system and can change 285 00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:27,330 it, but it's growing this network outside of the 286 00:15:27,330 --> 00:15:31,300 infrastructure to then. Impact the existing structure, 287 00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:34,140 we really like that if you think it like across of our 288 00:15:34,140 --> 00:15:37,020 investments and sometimes that turns out to be consumer if you 289 00:15:37,020 --> 00:15:40,700 think about you know an out school and education or a 290 00:15:40,700 --> 00:15:44,780 Duolingo or a Twitter and sometimes it turns out to be you 291 00:15:44,780 --> 00:15:48,220 know the enabling infrastructure or the B2B marketplace 292 00:15:48,220 --> 00:15:50,380 application like a journey clinical. 293 00:15:50,380 --> 00:15:52,700 So you know we just cut the world in a little bit of a 294 00:15:52,700 --> 00:15:55,240 different way. Do you think a lot about your 295 00:15:55,240 --> 00:15:58,360 sort of personal mix of investments or they tend to be 296 00:15:58,480 --> 00:16:02,480 firm wide or how do you think about how much consumer type 297 00:16:02,480 --> 00:16:05,120 investments you're doing now even though I know those can 298 00:16:05,120 --> 00:16:05,920 sometimes? Yeah. 299 00:16:05,920 --> 00:16:08,440 I don't think that much about how many of my investments are 300 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:10,360 consumer and how many of my investments are beautiful. 301 00:16:10,360 --> 00:16:15,650 I do think about am I? Focused on a range of you know 302 00:16:15,650 --> 00:16:17,410 problems and thesis areas, right. 303 00:16:17,410 --> 00:16:19,330 If we think a lot about, you know, capital, knowledge and 304 00:16:19,330 --> 00:16:21,890 well-being, I want to, you know, be doing things across them. 305 00:16:21,890 --> 00:16:23,770 And climate, you know, which is its own fund. 306 00:16:23,770 --> 00:16:26,530 That's important to us. And one thing we feel strongly 307 00:16:26,530 --> 00:16:29,170 about as a firm, which is a little bit different from other 308 00:16:29,410 --> 00:16:33,690 platforms is that each of us. Should make investments and have 309 00:16:33,690 --> 00:16:35,370 insight into each of these categories. 310 00:16:35,370 --> 00:16:37,930 We don't want someone to be on fintech and someone to be on 311 00:16:37,930 --> 00:16:40,770 education because our firm is really small, right? 312 00:16:40,770 --> 00:16:45,090 There's only, you know, a small handful of partners and we want 313 00:16:45,330 --> 00:16:49,130 a lot of shared knowledge and conversation and debate. 314 00:16:49,130 --> 00:16:51,330 So we don't want a situation where something comes in and we 315 00:16:51,330 --> 00:16:53,290 say this is a climate investment. 316 00:16:53,290 --> 00:16:55,290 So like Albert, you know, what do you think about that? 317 00:16:55,290 --> 00:16:57,730 Or it's the Fintech investment, John, like what should we do? 318 00:16:57,970 --> 00:17:01,850 We want it to be everyone's. Responsibility to have an 319 00:17:01,850 --> 00:17:04,770 insight and have our perspective and I think that's done by us 320 00:17:04,770 --> 00:17:06,930 all investing across each of the buckets. 321 00:17:07,130 --> 00:17:09,970 You said right before we got into this, you thought consumer 322 00:17:09,970 --> 00:17:12,650 was about to take off. Why? 323 00:17:12,690 --> 00:17:16,460 Why do you think that? The piece of the A I craziness 324 00:17:16,460 --> 00:17:19,780 that I'm most excited about is the application layer. 325 00:17:19,780 --> 00:17:22,180 I think there's still a lot of kind of complexity and 326 00:17:22,180 --> 00:17:26,940 uncertainty on the foundational model and on the enabling 327 00:17:27,099 --> 00:17:30,540 infrastructure on where equity value aggregates, right, how 328 00:17:30,540 --> 00:17:34,460 much of the stack the models own, how defensible those models 329 00:17:34,460 --> 00:17:36,700 are. You know how that shakes out. 330 00:17:36,860 --> 00:17:40,300 But what I feel like we can have more conviction about is that it 331 00:17:40,340 --> 00:17:43,790 unleashes. A wave of consumer innovation 332 00:17:43,790 --> 00:17:46,950 that's going to be really fun because the way this is going to 333 00:17:46,950 --> 00:17:50,470 get utilized is by products that we want to use. 334 00:17:50,470 --> 00:17:54,150 I'm excited about unleashing this rejuvenated value around 335 00:17:54,150 --> 00:17:59,630 fun things to do right where the coolest thing about AI driven 336 00:17:59,710 --> 00:18:02,600 applications is. They get better if people 337 00:18:02,600 --> 00:18:05,120 actually use them. So the strongest incentive of 338 00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:08,360 the team is to increase engagement in utility. 339 00:18:08,360 --> 00:18:11,360 And I think the only way to do that is to combine utility with 340 00:18:11,360 --> 00:18:13,160 fun. There's going to be so many 341 00:18:13,160 --> 00:18:15,760 things in the market that if things aren't fun to use, you'll 342 00:18:15,760 --> 00:18:18,920 go to another option. But the team has a huge 343 00:18:18,920 --> 00:18:21,160 incentive to get you to stick because that's how their product 344 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:22,800 gets better. So if you think about something 345 00:18:22,800 --> 00:18:26,360 like Duolingo which is you know been on this for a long time of 346 00:18:26,360 --> 00:18:28,920 leveraging machine learning and I I to create. 347 00:18:29,180 --> 00:18:32,380 Better, you know, consumer experiences, streaks, 348 00:18:32,380 --> 00:18:37,100 gamification, fun, infused with the utility of language learning 349 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:39,900 is critical because their product gets better if I use it. 350 00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:43,980 And I'm really excited to see that apply to lots of different 351 00:18:43,980 --> 00:18:46,540 consumer applications. And I think we've been talking a 352 00:18:46,540 --> 00:18:48,540 lot and everyone's been talking a lot about where they're going 353 00:18:48,540 --> 00:18:51,300 to be moats, right? You know, is stickiness going to 354 00:18:51,300 --> 00:18:53,260 be possible? The barriers feel low. 355 00:18:54,020 --> 00:18:58,420 And I think the Moat is going to be fun and teams that can create 356 00:18:58,620 --> 00:19:01,980 rapid new fun things that keep you on the platform. 357 00:19:02,060 --> 00:19:04,900 And we haven't seen that in a while and I'm excited about it. 358 00:19:05,460 --> 00:19:09,420 Chat bots I guess would be sort of front of mind in terms of 359 00:19:09,860 --> 00:19:13,220 consumer, you know you have companies like character. 360 00:19:13,580 --> 00:19:15,540 Is that the kind of thing you're thinking about or you're 361 00:19:15,540 --> 00:19:18,340 thinking of like more on the other end of the spectrum, like 362 00:19:18,340 --> 00:19:23,060 pure games that sort of employ large language models in some 363 00:19:23,060 --> 00:19:27,730 way, or any sort of more specificity on the type of thing 364 00:19:27,730 --> 00:19:29,970 you're seeing? I don't know that we're even 365 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:31,930 fully seeing it yet. I think we've seen a lot in 366 00:19:31,930 --> 00:19:34,130 learning. I think we're going to see a lot 367 00:19:34,130 --> 00:19:38,130 in Consumer Financial services, maybe even in healthcare, right. 368 00:19:38,130 --> 00:19:42,370 There's a huge advantage to companies that can get me sticky 369 00:19:42,370 --> 00:19:46,450 on being a point of entry for care in terms of diagnostics and 370 00:19:46,770 --> 00:19:49,010 kind of data networks. But you got to make me want to 371 00:19:49,010 --> 00:19:51,710 use it right and. I don't know that we've fully 372 00:19:51,710 --> 00:19:54,870 seen these come to life yet. I think chat bots are a start, 373 00:19:54,870 --> 00:19:58,270 but I don't think kind of a chat bot interface on its own is 374 00:19:58,270 --> 00:20:00,590 going to be fun enough. And what you're seeing in this 375 00:20:00,590 --> 00:20:04,270 kind of early 1st wave of consumer applications on these 376 00:20:04,270 --> 00:20:08,190 models is high trial, low engagement, right. 377 00:20:08,190 --> 00:20:13,350 So you see, you know, big usage numbers out of a gate and top 378 00:20:13,350 --> 00:20:17,700 line and then very low. 306090 day engagement because I think 379 00:20:17,700 --> 00:20:20,220 we're in a period of trial behavior like me and everyone 380 00:20:20,220 --> 00:20:21,900 else will try anything that comes along. 381 00:20:22,140 --> 00:20:24,620 It's so easy to try and we're all so curious. 382 00:20:24,620 --> 00:20:29,020 But the real indication is what I'm still using, you know, a few 383 00:20:29,020 --> 00:20:31,980 months from now. I know, even with ChatGPT. 384 00:20:32,020 --> 00:20:34,620 I mean partially. It feels like they're maybe 385 00:20:34,620 --> 00:20:38,580 degrading the quality of the service, but I use it regularly 386 00:20:39,020 --> 00:20:41,580 for proofreading. Still like it's good at catching 387 00:20:41,580 --> 00:20:45,270 random typos, but I don't think. You know, in the beginning I was 388 00:20:45,270 --> 00:20:47,270 having like long conversations with him. 389 00:20:47,270 --> 00:20:50,070 Really. It was like in a let's feel out 390 00:20:50,070 --> 00:20:53,510 sort of how powerful this thing is and sure, really get a sense 391 00:20:53,510 --> 00:20:55,950 of it. And the novelty of that winds 392 00:20:55,950 --> 00:20:58,470 down, I don't know. Do you find yourself using it 393 00:20:58,550 --> 00:21:02,110 much these days? You know, I use it for a very 394 00:21:02,110 --> 00:21:05,510 specific use case every day, which is I, you know, I used to 395 00:21:05,510 --> 00:21:09,110 use it in the same way, like kind of as a toy or for help 396 00:21:09,110 --> 00:21:11,830 writing. I found myself doing that less. 397 00:21:12,160 --> 00:21:16,640 What I use it for actually, is that my son, who's 5, loves 398 00:21:16,640 --> 00:21:18,360 having it create bedtime stories for him. 399 00:21:18,360 --> 00:21:19,920 So he loves the idea of telling it. 400 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,800 I want to hear a story about Max, who's his name, and my 401 00:21:23,800 --> 00:21:28,120 brother Leo, and we meet Spiderman and we go to a glacier 402 00:21:28,120 --> 00:21:32,400 and we fight Green Goblin and he loves being able to play with 403 00:21:32,400 --> 00:21:34,040 those inputs and have it tell a story. 404 00:21:34,040 --> 00:21:36,200 And I really like it because I used to have to make up those 405 00:21:36,200 --> 00:21:39,240 stories every night and now it does it for me. 406 00:21:39,240 --> 00:21:41,650 And he thinks, you know, the Chad GBG stories are certainly 407 00:21:41,650 --> 00:21:44,290 better than my made-up stories, which is interesting cuz that's 408 00:21:44,290 --> 00:21:46,930 a full toy use case. But it's sticky because he 409 00:21:46,930 --> 00:21:49,970 thinks it's right, right. And so I'm like that's. 410 00:21:50,090 --> 00:21:53,850 A business, you know, there are lots of maybe clearly people 411 00:21:53,850 --> 00:21:55,450 will make children's books with this. 412 00:21:55,450 --> 00:21:57,690 Or, you know, I mean people used to do all those, like fill in 413 00:21:57,690 --> 00:21:59,690 the blank. People love the idea of like, 414 00:21:59,690 --> 00:22:02,930 oh, you put your name in it, but you do that like most nights 415 00:22:02,930 --> 00:22:06,050 now, basically every night. I mean that I'm home. 416 00:22:06,770 --> 00:22:11,000 Oh my God, that's amazing. Are you searching for companies 417 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,840 with like AI in mind or would you invest in a company right 418 00:22:14,840 --> 00:22:16,520 now? To put it a totally different 419 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:20,840 way, that is not sort of talking about AI like it. 420 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:25,160 Does every company in some ways need to be using language models 421 00:22:25,160 --> 00:22:28,720 to be relevant to investors at the moment, or do you still see 422 00:22:28,720 --> 00:22:30,900 like? People with like totally 423 00:22:30,900 --> 00:22:33,540 different theses that are unrelated that are exciting to 424 00:22:33,540 --> 00:22:35,740 you. We absolutely see companies that 425 00:22:35,740 --> 00:22:37,300 are exciting. I mean I can think about pieces 426 00:22:37,300 --> 00:22:39,820 of climate for example, that are not related to AI. 427 00:22:40,060 --> 00:22:43,020 However, I think very similar to mobile. 428 00:22:43,020 --> 00:22:48,420 If you're talking to a company and mobile should be a part of 429 00:22:48,420 --> 00:22:51,420 their strategy or could add leverage to their strategy, you 430 00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:52,860 want them to talk about it, right. 431 00:22:52,940 --> 00:22:54,540 It doesn't have to be the first thing you're doing. 432 00:22:54,540 --> 00:22:57,060 It doesn't have to be the core of their business, but it's an 433 00:22:57,060 --> 00:23:00,670 important component of it. So if you're thinking about 434 00:23:00,910 --> 00:23:03,470 education companies right, where you spend a fair amount of time 435 00:23:03,470 --> 00:23:07,230 on direct to learner education, A I has been instrumental in 436 00:23:07,310 --> 00:23:10,710 lowering the cost of creation in a lot of ways and personalizing 437 00:23:10,710 --> 00:23:12,710 learning. It doesn't have to be that their 438 00:23:12,710 --> 00:23:16,390 thing is an A I company, but we would be curious if that's a 439 00:23:16,390 --> 00:23:18,790 tool set that adds leverage to what they're doing. 440 00:23:19,070 --> 00:23:21,430 Healthcare, right. We spend a fair amount of time 441 00:23:21,430 --> 00:23:24,510 and access to care. There's a lot going on there 442 00:23:24,510 --> 00:23:27,990 about how AI can offer more personalized care and change the 443 00:23:27,990 --> 00:23:30,350 cost structure. I would argue that one of the 444 00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:32,710 most, if not the most most important thing to do in 445 00:23:32,710 --> 00:23:34,670 healthcare right now is to change the cost structure, and 446 00:23:34,670 --> 00:23:36,950 that's an important tool. Maybe they've come up with a 447 00:23:36,950 --> 00:23:39,310 different way to do it that's, you know, also exciting. 448 00:23:39,310 --> 00:23:42,310 So it's not a gating item for us, but it's coming up in a lot 449 00:23:42,310 --> 00:23:44,230 of conversations. Yeah. 450 00:23:45,270 --> 00:23:49,430 I mean with mobile it's a little more clear like. 451 00:23:50,650 --> 00:23:53,050 Are you going to be there like there's this, it's a new way to 452 00:23:53,050 --> 00:23:55,330 get users that sort of quickly growing. 453 00:23:55,330 --> 00:23:57,490 You're going to be differentiated from your 454 00:23:57,490 --> 00:24:01,170 competitors with like, you know the LLMS. 455 00:24:01,730 --> 00:24:04,610 It's a little more varied in like whether it's like a tool to 456 00:24:04,610 --> 00:24:08,490 make you more productive or it's not always clear to companies 457 00:24:08,490 --> 00:24:10,450 like which. Piece of their business, they're 458 00:24:10,450 --> 00:24:12,490 supposed to use it for totally, yeah. 459 00:24:12,770 --> 00:24:16,210 And I think a big question is, is it customer user facing or is 460 00:24:16,210 --> 00:24:18,450 it internal efficiency? I think for a lot of the 461 00:24:18,450 --> 00:24:21,290 companies, right, the lowest hanging fruit is going to be 462 00:24:21,290 --> 00:24:24,970 internal efficiency. Can you make tasks that you do 463 00:24:24,970 --> 00:24:28,730 that add cost internally more efficient leveraging some of 464 00:24:28,730 --> 00:24:32,170 these tools and improving your margin structure and that is 465 00:24:32,170 --> 00:24:35,570 likely to come into play before it's a, you know, a user or a 466 00:24:35,570 --> 00:24:38,480 customer facing tool. Do you see venture capitalists 467 00:24:38,480 --> 00:24:40,920 doing that? Do you think like Llms will be 468 00:24:40,920 --> 00:24:44,680 useful for what you do? I'm sure it will be in a lot of 469 00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:46,800 ways. There are a lot of rote tasks we 470 00:24:46,800 --> 00:24:49,640 do, you know, areas that we've been thinking about where it's 471 00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:52,280 particularly useful. Obviously, rote tasks is one. 472 00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:56,600 Companies have more of them, especially as they scale, than 473 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:58,120 venture capitalists that we've discovered. 474 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:03,610 But I'm sure there are ways. USV is a relatively boutique 475 00:25:03,610 --> 00:25:05,250 firm, right? We're not doing so many 476 00:25:05,250 --> 00:25:08,130 investments each year. A lot of it is dependent on a 477 00:25:08,130 --> 00:25:10,370 small group of people sitting around in a room and really 478 00:25:10,370 --> 00:25:12,250 hashing out our thesis and ideas. 479 00:25:12,850 --> 00:25:15,970 It's not scale, right? Like it's kind of the antithesis 480 00:25:15,970 --> 00:25:18,930 of scale in a lot of ways despite our interest in scaling 481 00:25:18,930 --> 00:25:21,690 companies. And so it doesn't feel to me the 482 00:25:21,690 --> 00:25:24,250 most natural fit. But we have a lot of data and 483 00:25:24,450 --> 00:25:26,370 I'm sure we will, you know, think about using. 484 00:25:26,370 --> 00:25:28,530 We're playing with a bunch of different things internally all 485 00:25:28,530 --> 00:25:29,770 the time. I don't know that we've like 486 00:25:29,770 --> 00:25:31,960 found it's, you know, sweet spot. 487 00:25:31,960 --> 00:25:35,520 But the other place we think about its utility is where are 488 00:25:35,520 --> 00:25:40,040 there complex interfaces that you use, whether it's SQL or 489 00:25:40,040 --> 00:25:43,920 Excel, right, or it's Salesforce where people get hired 490 00:25:43,920 --> 00:25:45,960 particularly to interact with an interface. 491 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,920 Or, you know, you can take an Excel class, right? 492 00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:50,560 But it's all data on the back end. 493 00:25:50,760 --> 00:25:53,200 And I think one of the lowest hanging fruits is transforming 494 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:55,360 that interface. And there's applications for our 495 00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,560 business around that. So no doubt there'll be 496 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:00,600 intersections. I'm not sure we've nailed it 497 00:26:00,600 --> 00:26:02,840 right now. It's shifting gears to the 498 00:26:02,960 --> 00:26:05,520 Climate Fund. Have you invested out of the 499 00:26:05,520 --> 00:26:10,200 Climate Fund in anything that's like truly non tech in some way 500 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:15,520 or it's more just it's tech but it's like super heavy capital 501 00:26:15,520 --> 00:26:18,720 intensive hardware. It's more the latter, it's more 502 00:26:18,720 --> 00:26:21,800 the latter, right? We did micronuclear reactor 503 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:23,510 investment. Really cool. 504 00:26:23,630 --> 00:26:25,190 Micro. Honestly don't know. 505 00:26:25,750 --> 00:26:27,270 Oh, the nuclear reactors are small. 506 00:26:27,510 --> 00:26:29,230 They're actually in shipping containers. 507 00:26:29,270 --> 00:26:31,550 Whereas generally, wow, reactors are really big. 508 00:26:31,550 --> 00:26:33,350 Yeah, it's really cool. It's called radiant. 509 00:26:34,250 --> 00:26:37,410 Exist or this is like they exist. 510 00:26:37,490 --> 00:26:40,450 They can be built and piloted, but it will take a long time for 511 00:26:40,450 --> 00:26:43,250 them to be really, you know, rolled out and commercialized. 512 00:26:43,250 --> 00:26:45,450 And there's regulatory writ. There's all kinds of risk with 513 00:26:45,450 --> 00:26:47,530 it. And we also think that nuclear 514 00:26:47,530 --> 00:26:49,770 is an essential piece of the pie and changing the energy 515 00:26:49,770 --> 00:26:51,690 spectrum. So both are important. 516 00:26:51,850 --> 00:26:54,450 We think in our climate fund really deliberately around fund 517 00:26:54,450 --> 00:26:57,210 construction, right. It was important for us to have 518 00:26:57,210 --> 00:26:58,690 a nuclear investment in the fund. 519 00:26:58,890 --> 00:27:01,810 It's also important for us to not have so many nuclear 520 00:27:01,810 --> 00:27:04,410 investments in the fund. And so we think about that 521 00:27:04,410 --> 00:27:07,530 balance really particularly, honestly, probably more 522 00:27:07,770 --> 00:27:09,930 specifically than we do in the core fund. 523 00:27:10,050 --> 00:27:12,050 I mean, small nuclear was very interesting. 524 00:27:12,290 --> 00:27:14,970 Are there other ones that are like are fun to hear about at 525 00:27:14,970 --> 00:27:18,370 the moment or that you think are particularly interesting in the 526 00:27:18,370 --> 00:27:20,890 funds lots? Yeah, the Climate Fund has kind 527 00:27:20,890 --> 00:27:24,570 of been fun because you know, I guess actually these days 528 00:27:24,570 --> 00:27:26,610 between climate and psychedelics, like I have a lot 529 00:27:26,610 --> 00:27:30,710 of party conversation people, but often times I don't. 530 00:27:30,710 --> 00:27:33,390 And it's like here's a B to B marketplace I think is really 531 00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:35,430 interesting but like you're not going to think, is that it? 532 00:27:35,710 --> 00:27:37,390 People love to be like what do you investigate? 533 00:27:38,270 --> 00:27:42,350 But the Climate Fund is actually like a gold mine cuz it's a lot 534 00:27:42,350 --> 00:27:45,230 of really cool stuff. We have Remora which is doing 535 00:27:45,230 --> 00:27:47,230 carbon capture off the back of semi trucks. 536 00:27:47,230 --> 00:27:50,710 We've been very interested in how can you take existing. 537 00:27:50,870 --> 00:27:53,550 We split the fund into mitigation and adaptation, 538 00:27:53,830 --> 00:27:56,250 right. Mitigation is how do you 539 00:27:56,370 --> 00:28:00,370 decarbonize the planet, right? How do you prevent more carbon 540 00:28:00,370 --> 00:28:02,650 in the atmosphere and sequester carbon? 541 00:28:02,850 --> 00:28:06,410 Adaptation is how do we adapt to a world where this is what's 542 00:28:06,410 --> 00:28:09,130 going on, right? A world of kind where you're 543 00:28:09,130 --> 00:28:12,170 going to have more extreme weather events, where you know 544 00:28:12,170 --> 00:28:15,530 we have this changing ecosystem and planet, What do we need to 545 00:28:15,530 --> 00:28:18,010 do to live in it? And so we put investments in 546 00:28:18,010 --> 00:28:21,690 both in the fund. So for example adaptation we 547 00:28:21,690 --> 00:28:25,570 have flood map right which is a data network around predicting 548 00:28:25,770 --> 00:28:29,930 floods which is going to be enormous ly important given the 549 00:28:29,930 --> 00:28:33,650 weather patterns that we're seeing mitigation we have 550 00:28:33,730 --> 00:28:36,450 something like remora which is you know carbon capture off the 551 00:28:36,450 --> 00:28:39,370 back of semi trucks. We have an existing, you know, 552 00:28:39,660 --> 00:28:43,460 world of semi trucks driving across the country, very hard to 553 00:28:43,460 --> 00:28:46,700 stop that, very problematic to the American economy to stop 554 00:28:46,700 --> 00:28:48,980 that. But how do you adapt them to be 555 00:28:48,980 --> 00:28:52,100 able to, you know, further mitigation of the climate 556 00:28:52,100 --> 00:28:54,820 crisis? Well, you can attach these 557 00:28:55,380 --> 00:28:57,940 hardware contraptions and capture carbon along the way. 558 00:28:57,940 --> 00:29:02,020 So there's a lot of really interesting innovation coming 559 00:29:02,020 --> 00:29:04,070 out of it. You know, I always say, you 560 00:29:04,070 --> 00:29:07,830 know, if future generations get the ability to look back at 561 00:29:07,830 --> 00:29:12,190 ours, they'll be very critical of where we allowed this planet 562 00:29:12,190 --> 00:29:15,870 to get to, but amazed at what innovation could do to change 563 00:29:15,870 --> 00:29:17,470 course. And they'll only be able to do 564 00:29:17,550 --> 00:29:20,230 that if it does change course. And if it doesn't, it'll be mute 565 00:29:20,270 --> 00:29:21,790 because they won't be there to tell us. 566 00:29:22,030 --> 00:29:24,470 It's easy to fall into this sort of. 567 00:29:24,510 --> 00:29:27,270 I feel like the tech mindset can sometimes fall into. 568 00:29:27,850 --> 00:29:29,250 Oh, this problem will get solved. 569 00:29:29,450 --> 00:29:31,970 You know, it's like there was just that article about the 570 00:29:31,970 --> 00:29:34,530 Super white paint that is very reflective. 571 00:29:34,530 --> 00:29:36,130 It's like, oh, we can just deploy that. 572 00:29:36,370 --> 00:29:39,530 But obviously, you know, somebody has to do the solving, 573 00:29:39,530 --> 00:29:42,370 which is also sort of the entrepreneurial sort of tech 574 00:29:42,690 --> 00:29:44,450 mindset. It's like, yeah, the money has 575 00:29:44,450 --> 00:29:47,330 to be deployed. Like somebody has to go do it. 576 00:29:47,410 --> 00:29:50,570 It's not you can't just sort of like, oh, we tend to work things 577 00:29:50,570 --> 00:29:53,210 out, you know, I mean that. So yeah, I guess that's the way 578 00:29:53,210 --> 00:29:55,770 of say it's good that you guys are doing these climate funds 579 00:29:55,770 --> 00:29:59,190 and obviously. Sort of where a firm like USV 580 00:29:59,190 --> 00:30:02,750 goes, so goes a lot of Silicon Valley eventually. 581 00:30:03,510 --> 00:30:06,510 Are you seeing the growth stage funds? 582 00:30:06,550 --> 00:30:08,550 I mean I've written about lower carbon before. 583 00:30:08,550 --> 00:30:11,470 Obviously Chris Sacca sort of came out super strong on the 584 00:30:11,510 --> 00:30:13,990 early stage. You guys are now sort of coming 585 00:30:13,990 --> 00:30:16,990 out strong and there are certainly others, but it doesn't 586 00:30:16,990 --> 00:30:20,280 feel like. We've seen sort of the growth 587 00:30:20,280 --> 00:30:23,440 stage at the same level or how are you feeling about like 588 00:30:23,440 --> 00:30:26,160 follow on capital for the companies you're investing? 589 00:30:26,160 --> 00:30:27,920 We've been very focused on this question. 590 00:30:27,920 --> 00:30:31,140 First of all, there are some right, you have galvanized which 591 00:30:31,140 --> 00:30:34,500 is really interesting. You have some both horizontally 592 00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:37,180 interested in climate like a galvanized and then more 593 00:30:37,180 --> 00:30:40,900 verticalized around energy or you know different pieces of it 594 00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:43,700 that touch it. But overall we think there's a 595 00:30:43,700 --> 00:30:46,500 dearth and you see some strategic come in right Benny 596 00:30:46,500 --> 00:30:48,380 off. Some people have made huge 597 00:30:48,380 --> 00:30:51,180 commitments that they're making good on putting capital at 598 00:30:51,180 --> 00:30:52,620 growth stages behind his innovations. 599 00:30:53,140 --> 00:30:57,940 But we don't believe there's the systematic growth stage capital 600 00:30:57,940 --> 00:31:01,250 that this market needs. And it's not only just later 601 00:31:01,250 --> 00:31:03,330 stage venture funds. My partner Albert, what a 602 00:31:03,330 --> 00:31:08,290 really, really good blog post on this called the climate funding 603 00:31:08,290 --> 00:31:10,130 stack or something like that. You should look it up. 604 00:31:10,330 --> 00:31:14,490 But about this issue of building out the financing stack for 605 00:31:14,490 --> 00:31:17,770 climate and the reason we think it's important is it's not just 606 00:31:17,770 --> 00:31:20,930 raise a big growth fund. Often times these projects have, 607 00:31:21,090 --> 00:31:24,210 you know, facilities involved. They may need different forms of 608 00:31:24,210 --> 00:31:26,530 financing. You have to combine, you know, 609 00:31:26,530 --> 00:31:28,930 an equity financing with different types of debt because 610 00:31:28,930 --> 00:31:30,330 they're building, get something out. 611 00:31:30,370 --> 00:31:33,770 It's not as simple as scaling software, but it's really 612 00:31:33,770 --> 00:31:36,170 important to do. And so we think there's a big 613 00:31:36,170 --> 00:31:40,690 opportunity for new funds to form with mixes of capital 614 00:31:40,690 --> 00:31:42,890 structures that can support this ecosystem. 615 00:31:42,890 --> 00:31:46,490 And we're been very active in talking to people and helping 616 00:31:46,490 --> 00:31:49,090 them who are thinking about coming out and doing. 617 00:31:49,330 --> 00:31:51,930 That part of the beauty of investing in software is like. 618 00:31:52,940 --> 00:31:54,500 You know, if you do it long enough, you can. 619 00:31:54,740 --> 00:31:58,060 I mean, I don't do it, but my sense is that you start to see 620 00:31:58,060 --> 00:32:01,140 the milestones, that it's like this company, if we invest, if 621 00:32:01,140 --> 00:32:04,500 you hit these milestones, you'll probably raise more money. 622 00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,500 Or at least that was true, maybe less true this year. 623 00:32:07,580 --> 00:32:11,100 But like how do you do that with climate companies where first of 624 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:12,780 all, they're much more different one to another? 625 00:32:12,780 --> 00:32:15,220 It's not like okay, here's a SAS for X. 626 00:32:15,580 --> 00:32:17,500 It's like here's a totally different company. 627 00:32:17,620 --> 00:32:20,660 How do you figure out what milestones this company could 628 00:32:20,660 --> 00:32:23,530 reach? Before to to get another round 629 00:32:23,530 --> 00:32:26,530 of funding, it's a really good question and we spend a lot of 630 00:32:26,530 --> 00:32:29,770 time on that internally at the early stages because I totally 631 00:32:29,770 --> 00:32:32,210 agree with you. It's much more complex and 632 00:32:32,210 --> 00:32:35,210 varied than you know. There's a there's limitless 633 00:32:35,210 --> 00:32:38,410 blogs out there on you know milestones for SAS companies on 634 00:32:38,410 --> 00:32:42,210 raising different rounds and this is not it And in some ways 635 00:32:42,210 --> 00:32:45,610 the most complicated part is the market doesn't really know yet, 636 00:32:46,370 --> 00:32:47,970 right. There isn't I don't think a 637 00:32:47,970 --> 00:32:50,630 horizontal answer. And there's a lot that goes into 638 00:32:50,630 --> 00:32:52,750 the climate fund, right? There's software companies, 639 00:32:52,950 --> 00:32:55,750 carbon chain, which is carbon accounting for source of truth 640 00:32:55,750 --> 00:32:58,070 for supply chains. That looks a lot like a SAS 641 00:32:58,070 --> 00:33:00,350 company, right? The milestones involved are 642 00:33:00,350 --> 00:33:02,030 going to be a lot like a SAS company. 643 00:33:02,030 --> 00:33:04,670 It's going to be underwritten that way, you know. 644 00:33:04,670 --> 00:33:09,390 But then there's you know the nuclear come radiant totally 645 00:33:09,390 --> 00:33:11,870 different in milestones you can't do it off of revenue. 646 00:33:12,070 --> 00:33:15,430 And so we do a lot of talking to the market, right, like before 647 00:33:15,430 --> 00:33:19,310 we go into categories really doing our homework on what those 648 00:33:19,310 --> 00:33:21,470 downstream investors would want to see. 649 00:33:21,710 --> 00:33:24,990 What you know the expectation is to unlock different levels of 650 00:33:24,990 --> 00:33:28,670 capital, how much capital is going to be necessary to get 651 00:33:28,670 --> 00:33:30,990 these companies to the proof points and trying to underwrite 652 00:33:30,990 --> 00:33:32,830 that. And as we all know, sometimes 653 00:33:32,830 --> 00:33:34,750 that's not so clear at the early days. 654 00:33:35,350 --> 00:33:39,070 We also we tailor the capital we put in to the different rounds 655 00:33:39,070 --> 00:33:42,190 to that capital risk. We think about that a lot more 656 00:33:42,190 --> 00:33:45,150 in the Climate fund in many ways than we do in the core fund, 657 00:33:45,150 --> 00:33:46,990 because that ecosystem is evolving. 658 00:33:47,510 --> 00:33:51,390 As in not just deploying a ton of money to something because it 659 00:33:51,390 --> 00:33:55,270 will need it or what do you mean you tailor the capital, meaning 660 00:33:55,310 --> 00:33:59,390 if we think that risk is higher, we may do a smaller seed, right? 661 00:33:59,390 --> 00:34:01,990 We tailor our own exposure depending on the risks. 662 00:34:02,230 --> 00:34:03,470 Involved. You do the stage. 663 00:34:03,470 --> 00:34:04,630 You're like, oh, we'll do a seat. 664 00:34:05,210 --> 00:34:08,850 Yeah, that makes sense. I said at the beginning of this 665 00:34:08,850 --> 00:34:12,570 that I would ask you about your career and sort of looking at it 666 00:34:12,570 --> 00:34:16,889 in this down market. I mean, you know, it feels to me 667 00:34:17,730 --> 00:34:19,969 like, you know, there was a period where it seemed like 668 00:34:19,969 --> 00:34:25,130 every promising up and coming VC and certainly I put you in that 669 00:34:25,130 --> 00:34:27,570 category. I was like oh, should I be 670 00:34:27,570 --> 00:34:30,570 starting a fund? Like did you consider starting a 671 00:34:30,570 --> 00:34:32,929 fund when you went to USV and LIKE? 672 00:34:33,929 --> 00:34:36,010 That for a while that seemed great, like you're going to get 673 00:34:36,010 --> 00:34:40,250 a lot of the economics and like there's potentially more upside. 674 00:34:40,610 --> 00:34:44,010 But then now, you know, I feel like many of those same funds 675 00:34:44,010 --> 00:34:48,290 are the ones where LP's are sort of much more cautious and might 676 00:34:48,690 --> 00:34:52,370 be the hardest to raise anyway. So that's me laying out. 677 00:34:52,370 --> 00:34:54,090 What I see is sort of how things went. 678 00:34:54,090 --> 00:34:58,130 But I'm curious, yeah, for you just like how you thought about 679 00:34:58,130 --> 00:35:02,090 the decision to go to sort of an established firm versus maybe? 680 00:35:02,480 --> 00:35:06,480 Setting out on your own, Yeah, I mean, a couple of things. 681 00:35:06,680 --> 00:35:10,160 One, I actually think some of the new franchises and platforms 682 00:35:10,160 --> 00:35:12,280 that are coming out are extremely exciting. 683 00:35:12,280 --> 00:35:15,280 You know, I look at what friends of mine are building in all 684 00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,480 kinds of different realms, whether that's like a Pace 685 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:21,960 Capital or what, you know, Justin April are building or 12 686 00:35:21,960 --> 00:35:25,240 Below in New York or these kind of different platforms. 687 00:35:25,240 --> 00:35:28,160 And you look at them and there's so much hustle, there's so much 688 00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:30,080 perspective. The networks are so strong, 689 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:33,320 there's a lot to prove. But one thing I love about 690 00:35:33,320 --> 00:35:35,560 venture is it really favors the hungry. 691 00:35:35,840 --> 00:35:38,960 You know, you're only as good as the fund you're deploying right 692 00:35:38,960 --> 00:35:41,760 now. All of those past successes can 693 00:35:41,760 --> 00:35:44,920 make old partners rich, but they can't make you, you know, win 694 00:35:44,920 --> 00:35:48,320 that next deal if you don't get out there and hustle for it and 695 00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:50,800 you can be outworked and out hustled. 696 00:35:50,840 --> 00:35:52,920 And I, you know, there are a lot of people doing it. 697 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:57,200 And so there is a natural evolution of platforms and Lps I 698 00:35:57,200 --> 00:35:59,480 think are excited about them. So I actually think it's a 699 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,180 pretty interesting time. That being said. 700 00:36:02,180 --> 00:36:03,940 Sorry to interrupt. Well, I'll let you keep going 701 00:36:03,940 --> 00:36:06,260 with this point, but I mean Pittsburgh put out data that 702 00:36:06,260 --> 00:36:11,700 affirmed that there is, it seems like Lps are favoring existing 703 00:36:11,700 --> 00:36:13,020 firms. I mean, of course Lps are 704 00:36:13,020 --> 00:36:14,580 favoring. That doesn't mean the sort of 705 00:36:14,580 --> 00:36:16,420 the coolest new, right? Right. 706 00:36:16,460 --> 00:36:18,380 Yeah, okay. As long as we're aligned on that 707 00:36:18,380 --> 00:36:20,860 sort of being the universe, right, the data is the data 708 00:36:20,860 --> 00:36:22,540 right. Like of course Lps are favoring 709 00:36:22,540 --> 00:36:25,530 existing firms, right? And especially in times of come 710 00:36:25,530 --> 00:36:29,410 all you pull to the kind of, you know, most obvious ones. 711 00:36:29,410 --> 00:36:32,930 But there's also a lot of data that in many cases first funds 712 00:36:32,930 --> 00:36:36,370 outperform, right. That like many platforms are 713 00:36:36,370 --> 00:36:39,730 never as good as the first fund. I am, you know, banking my 714 00:36:39,730 --> 00:36:43,490 career that USB will outperform USB's first fund, which is hard 715 00:36:43,490 --> 00:36:45,770 to do because that was an epic first fund. 716 00:36:46,170 --> 00:36:50,130 But I'm going to, you know, work my ass off until we do that. 717 00:36:50,410 --> 00:36:54,030 But you know, there's a reason why and I think it has to do 718 00:36:54,030 --> 00:36:56,830 with risk tolerance and hunger and it's a really cool element, 719 00:36:56,830 --> 00:36:58,950 I think, of the venture ecosystem that's very much in 720 00:36:58,950 --> 00:37:03,350 play right now. That being said, you know I 721 00:37:03,350 --> 00:37:08,550 think everyone has their own set of aspirations and mine is to be 722 00:37:08,830 --> 00:37:12,990 you know, one of the, you know, best investors of my generation 723 00:37:12,990 --> 00:37:18,950 in terms of returns and firm building and working with and 724 00:37:18,950 --> 00:37:22,230 behind companies that I can be proud to be a part of. 725 00:37:22,310 --> 00:37:25,230 And that is kind of I've always been very clear on that being my 726 00:37:25,230 --> 00:37:28,110 aspiration. It wasn't to start my own thing. 727 00:37:28,110 --> 00:37:31,950 And so if I felt like I could accomplish those goals on a 728 00:37:31,950 --> 00:37:35,470 platform I was excited about, you know that was what I wanted 729 00:37:35,470 --> 00:37:37,430 to do. And and I think USB is really 730 00:37:37,430 --> 00:37:40,470 unique everything from the way we're structured and set up to 731 00:37:40,470 --> 00:37:43,430 how our partnership works. And I frankly don't think I 732 00:37:43,430 --> 00:37:45,550 could. You know, I know I couldn't 733 00:37:45,550 --> 00:37:48,830 recruit a set of more impressive partners if I went out and 734 00:37:48,830 --> 00:37:51,070 tried. And, you know, I couldn't think 735 00:37:51,070 --> 00:37:53,150 of a reason why that would have been a better choice for me. 736 00:37:53,510 --> 00:37:57,910 What's your sense of how screwed like the venture capital asset 737 00:37:57,910 --> 00:38:03,230 classes right now overall? I mean you know with I feel like 738 00:38:03,230 --> 00:38:05,950 with interest rates going up, there's been more and more 739 00:38:05,950 --> 00:38:10,790 concerned that just like the sort of median venture 740 00:38:11,230 --> 00:38:14,390 performance isn't like good enough to justify. 741 00:38:14,910 --> 00:38:18,670 Sort of the investments in a world where Lps can go 742 00:38:19,070 --> 00:38:23,070 elsewhere, I mean obviously USV sort of is fine, but I'm just 743 00:38:23,070 --> 00:38:27,310 curious like how venture broadly does affects you because it 744 00:38:27,310 --> 00:38:29,830 affects you know, the financing, everything like that. 745 00:38:30,350 --> 00:38:32,550 So yeah, what's your read of the market? 746 00:38:32,790 --> 00:38:35,710 Probably most importantly, it affects the appeal of great 747 00:38:35,710 --> 00:38:38,030 founders to start companies, right? 748 00:38:38,030 --> 00:38:42,090 Like people start companies when they feel like funding is there 749 00:38:42,090 --> 00:38:43,650 and they're excited about platform shifts and 750 00:38:43,650 --> 00:38:47,170 opportunities. And so it matters a lot I think 751 00:38:47,170 --> 00:38:50,290 of the broad perception for the talent, which is I would argue 752 00:38:50,290 --> 00:38:52,250 in many ways the most important piece of it. 753 00:38:52,690 --> 00:38:57,290 I think it's a mixed story. I think the vintages of the last 754 00:38:57,290 --> 00:39:01,290 few years are going to be very tough for every obvious reason, 755 00:39:01,370 --> 00:39:04,130 right. The entry prices, the reset of a 756 00:39:04,130 --> 00:39:09,220 market, the potential outcomes, the crowdedness, all of it is 757 00:39:09,220 --> 00:39:13,780 going to make a set of vintages very tough to prove out and are 758 00:39:14,580 --> 00:39:16,300 going to be a little bit of a bloodbath to watch. 759 00:39:17,500 --> 00:39:22,100 But venture is cyclical and at heart is about you know putting 760 00:39:22,100 --> 00:39:26,700 early capital into powerful new technologies particularly around 761 00:39:26,940 --> 00:39:30,300 shifting markets, right, the market creation and we're 762 00:39:30,300 --> 00:39:31,980 straight in the middle of that, right. 763 00:39:31,980 --> 00:39:34,980 We are seeing that happen. It's an essential time for that 764 00:39:34,980 --> 00:39:38,110 to happen and in some of the most exciting ways. 765 00:39:38,110 --> 00:39:41,270 Categories that we've long-awaited to intersect with 766 00:39:41,270 --> 00:39:44,470 technology shifts I think are happening right Healthcare and 767 00:39:44,470 --> 00:39:46,470 education and financial services. 768 00:39:46,590 --> 00:39:50,790 I feel like those intersections are coming to fruition in a more 769 00:39:50,790 --> 00:39:53,670 concrete way through some of these technologies that we're 770 00:39:53,670 --> 00:39:57,040 seeing and products being built then has happened before. 771 00:39:57,040 --> 00:40:00,320 And that's extremely exciting and we're seeing a dramatic 772 00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:02,600 talent shift to it. More people want to go out and 773 00:40:02,600 --> 00:40:05,400 start climate businesses. They want to work on things that 774 00:40:05,400 --> 00:40:07,680 matter. It's less appealing to stay at 775 00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:11,360 large platforms that are, you know, bumpy or late stage 776 00:40:11,360 --> 00:40:13,960 companies where they don't know that you know their options are 777 00:40:13,960 --> 00:40:16,400 above water and so they're going out and they're starting 778 00:40:16,400 --> 00:40:19,360 businesses. So there's a lot of recipes for 779 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,610 the next. Set of years to be a very good 780 00:40:22,610 --> 00:40:29,210 time in venture interest rates and chaos and all, but have we 781 00:40:29,210 --> 00:40:32,490 all learned to be pretty cautious on entry prices? 782 00:40:32,490 --> 00:40:36,690 Have we learned to slow down? I think hopefully these lessons 783 00:40:36,770 --> 00:40:39,850 at least have some longevity, even though I know memories are 784 00:40:39,850 --> 00:40:41,970 short. With large language models and 785 00:40:42,090 --> 00:40:47,250 AI totally believe it and get it, it's like, OK, this is sort 786 00:40:47,250 --> 00:40:49,370 of a transformational technology like. 787 00:40:49,940 --> 00:40:51,540 We're in a downturn, but who cares? 788 00:40:51,540 --> 00:40:54,420 It's like if mobile came around, you know, when the world was 789 00:40:54,420 --> 00:40:57,140 ending, like a great VC firm should have tried to gobble 790 00:40:57,140 --> 00:41:00,020 everything up that they could. And I mean some of. 791 00:41:00,220 --> 00:41:05,420 Yeah, anyway, so, so I get that. And with climate to some degree, 792 00:41:05,420 --> 00:41:07,940 there's more capital and interest and excitement and 793 00:41:07,940 --> 00:41:12,380 belief sort of happening. I don't quite get on sort of the 794 00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:17,300 healthcare education side. What like the technological 795 00:41:17,780 --> 00:41:22,690 inflection point? Is at the moment or like because 796 00:41:22,690 --> 00:41:25,210 I mean the regulatory problems have stayed the same. 797 00:41:25,490 --> 00:41:27,770 I think some of the regulatory problems might shift. 798 00:41:27,770 --> 00:41:32,250 But on the technology piece of it, I would argue the biggest 799 00:41:32,250 --> 00:41:35,330 problem in those systems is a cost issue, right. 800 00:41:35,330 --> 00:41:37,570 They're kind of purposefully exclusionary. 801 00:41:37,810 --> 00:41:41,250 They are complicated. They are one-size-fits-all and 802 00:41:41,250 --> 00:41:44,130 they are too expensive. It's actually the healthcare and 803 00:41:44,130 --> 00:41:47,010 education have very different problems from each other in lots 804 00:41:47,010 --> 00:41:49,450 of ways. But I think have that set of 805 00:41:49,450 --> 00:41:54,130 issues in common. And the best way to change that 806 00:41:54,250 --> 00:41:57,050 is technology, because in many ways that's a product problem. 807 00:41:57,890 --> 00:42:03,410 And scalable technology that can personalize delivery of care, 808 00:42:03,490 --> 00:42:06,850 delivery of education, can change a cost curve and create 809 00:42:06,850 --> 00:42:09,970 new forms of access. And I think we are seeing some 810 00:42:09,970 --> 00:42:16,170 of that technology be built and products come to life in a much 811 00:42:16,170 --> 00:42:19,770 more accelerated way right now than we have before and in ways 812 00:42:19,770 --> 00:42:22,250 that we're gonna finally break through some of that noise. 813 00:42:22,250 --> 00:42:25,330 Our strong belief is that to your point on regulation is that 814 00:42:25,330 --> 00:42:28,060 these systems are gonna change from the outside in that 815 00:42:28,060 --> 00:42:31,180 fighting from internally in the structure and selling into them 816 00:42:31,380 --> 00:42:33,780 is a slog and is incremental change. 817 00:42:33,980 --> 00:42:37,860 But enough pressure from users, being able to use new products 818 00:42:37,860 --> 00:42:40,980 and services at the right cross structure from the outside can 819 00:42:40,980 --> 00:42:43,860 put pressure on and change structures outside in And I 820 00:42:43,860 --> 00:42:45,940 think we are going to start to see that in important. 821 00:42:47,260 --> 00:42:49,460 Great. Rebecca, thank you so much for 822 00:42:49,460 --> 00:42:50,980 coming on the show. I really appreciate it. 823 00:42:51,100 --> 00:42:53,140 Thank you for having me. That's the episode. 824 00:42:53,180 --> 00:42:55,460 I'm Eric Newcomer. Thanks so much, Rebecca Cayden. 825 00:42:55,930 --> 00:42:58,650 Shout out to Tommy Herron, our audio editor, Riley Consello. 826 00:42:58,650 --> 00:43:01,970 My chief of staff, Annie Wen, our intern, is helping with 827 00:43:02,090 --> 00:43:05,370 producing young Chomsky for the wonderful theme music. 828 00:43:05,810 --> 00:43:09,250 Please like comments, subscribe on YouTube, give us a review on 829 00:43:09,250 --> 00:43:13,370 Apple Podcasts, and subscribe to the Stop Stack newcomer.co. 830 00:43:13,370 --> 00:43:14,610 Thanks so much. Goodbye. 831 00:43:14,730 --> 00:43:15,930 Goodbye. Goodbye. 832 00:43:16,050 --> 00:43:16,970 Goodbye. Goodbye. 833 00:43:16,970 --> 00:43:17,610 Goodbye. Goodbye. 834 00:43:17,730 --> 00:43:18,290 Goodbye. Goodbye. 835 00:43:18,330 --> 00:43:18,530 Goodbye.