1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:03,360 Imagine doge with empathy. We're not talking about firing 2 00:00:03,360 --> 00:00:06,520 people, but take a resource strapped organization like city 3 00:00:06,520 --> 00:00:09,520 government that has the most antiquated technology you can 4 00:00:09,520 --> 00:00:13,400 imagine and think about how you can identify savings within that 5 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,600 framework to make city government work better for New 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:17,800 Yorkers. This week on the podcast, I had 7 00:00:17,800 --> 00:00:20,400 Julie Samuels, the head of Tech NYC. 8 00:00:20,520 --> 00:00:23,440 Julie has spent her career at the intersection of innovation 9 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:26,880 and policy, and as the head of Tech NYC, she's become the most 10 00:00:26,880 --> 00:00:29,720 important voice in the room when it comes to the future of this 11 00:00:29,720 --> 00:00:32,960 city, these tech industry. And hey, it wouldn't be an 12 00:00:32,960 --> 00:00:34,760 episode without a little politics. 13 00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:37,000 What is the tech industry's plan post? 14 00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,600 Trump, I've been thinking a lot about that. 15 00:00:38,720 --> 00:00:49,440 Welcome to the newcomer podcast. Julie Samuels, Tech NYC. 16 00:00:49,440 --> 00:00:51,520 Thank you so much for joining me on the podcast. 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,560 Thank you for having me. You work on sort of New York 18 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:57,320 politics, New York State and then obviously that all fits 19 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,800 into sort of the federal landscape and sort of advocate 20 00:01:00,800 --> 00:01:04,160 on behalf of the tech crowd. And I feel like we share a 21 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:07,040 similar sort of frame of reference where, you know, 22 00:01:07,040 --> 00:01:11,240 believe in tech, want it to work, but also believe in sort 23 00:01:11,240 --> 00:01:14,680 of the normal democratic reality and have to navigate that. 24 00:01:14,680 --> 00:01:16,560 So excited to have this whole to have a. 25 00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:18,520 Conversation. We've been talking for a long 26 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,680 time, you and I. Yeah, I know it's more than a 27 00:01:20,680 --> 00:01:22,120 decade. More than a decade, yeah. 28 00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:25,760 So, yeah, I mean, let's start with the Mum Donnie Trump 29 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:28,160 meeting. Yeah, in some ways, you know, 30 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:30,600 the tech community, you know, it's hard to paint with too 31 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:33,920 broad of a brush is what wouldn't have picked Mom Donnie 32 00:01:34,040 --> 00:01:36,600 as their mayor. I think among the different 33 00:01:36,600 --> 00:01:41,200 candidates, his ability to sort of like cozy up to Trump, is 34 00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:44,120 that a sign that he can sort of win over the business community 35 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:45,720 or what do you take of? Yeah, that's really. 36 00:01:45,760 --> 00:01:46,840 Popularity. Well. 37 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,120 Firstly, I think his popularity is also, well, firstly, he's 38 00:01:51,120 --> 00:01:54,920 uniquely, uniquely talented. Greater retail politics, just 39 00:01:55,000 --> 00:02:00,440 really good media presence. But so much of that is also that 40 00:02:00,440 --> 00:02:02,840 he knows how to use the tech platforms. 41 00:02:02,840 --> 00:02:07,160 He's the first, not the first, but one of the first mainstream 42 00:02:07,160 --> 00:02:10,000 politicians who's just nailed that, who knows how to use the 43 00:02:10,000 --> 00:02:13,680 media to speak to people in a way that most politicians, 44 00:02:13,680 --> 00:02:17,440 surely most Democrats, have just not figured out at all. 45 00:02:17,840 --> 00:02:20,440 You know who else has, though is of course Donald Trump, right, 46 00:02:20,440 --> 00:02:21,520 Right. Right. 47 00:02:21,520 --> 00:02:24,760 So the politicians that maybe tech did not, you know, 48 00:02:24,960 --> 00:02:27,800 certainly, you know, plenty of people embrace tech, Trump in 49 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:29,080 tech. But you know, it took them a 50 00:02:29,080 --> 00:02:30,800 while. He wasn't their first choice. 51 00:02:31,280 --> 00:02:34,120 And yeah, and then AOC obviously is pretty good at it, too. 52 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:38,160 None of the candidates that tech leaders might have chosen to 53 00:02:38,160 --> 00:02:40,880 lead the United States are the best. 54 00:02:41,040 --> 00:02:43,040 That's right. That's it's very interesting and 55 00:02:43,040 --> 00:02:46,680 you know, part of this is the second time Zoran Mamdani has 56 00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:50,240 gone to the to The West Wing to to the Oval to see Trump. 57 00:02:50,640 --> 00:02:54,440 And I think both times the kind of take away was like, oh, you 58 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,920 know, game recognizes game and that Donald Trump, he gets it. 59 00:02:58,640 --> 00:03:03,120 And that's the people should go look up the photo from The West 60 00:03:03,120 --> 00:03:06,240 Wing where Trump is holding up these two newspapers, one with 61 00:03:06,240 --> 00:03:09,880 the famous headline Ford to NYC drop dead. 62 00:03:10,080 --> 00:03:13,440 And the other one which is a mock up base, you know, the same 63 00:03:13,600 --> 00:03:17,680 but Trump to NYC let's build. And you know that it's all about 64 00:03:17,760 --> 00:03:19,280 getting funding to build a more affordable. 65 00:03:19,280 --> 00:03:21,560 Housing, sunshine development or what? 66 00:03:21,920 --> 00:03:23,400 Sunnyside. OK, what is the big? 67 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:28,440 Affordable housing development. And basically, as I understand, 68 00:03:28,720 --> 00:03:31,520 the mayor went and asked for $21 billion in federal funding to 69 00:03:31,520 --> 00:03:34,080 help build this really big affordable housing project, 70 00:03:34,080 --> 00:03:36,400 which, you know, everyone wants to build more housing. 71 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,800 Everyone's a winner, Trump, you can take credit. 72 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:43,400 And, and the picture is so telling because clearly the 73 00:03:43,400 --> 00:03:46,880 mayor's team brought these mock ups, but Trump is holding them 74 00:03:46,920 --> 00:03:49,760 and he's got a big smile. Like, you know, you can tell 75 00:03:49,760 --> 00:03:51,640 it's not a fake smile. It's like, I mean, I don't know, 76 00:03:51,720 --> 00:03:54,240 listen, I can't get in Trump's head, but he's smiling like it's 77 00:03:54,240 --> 00:03:56,000 a smile. And it wasn't just the 78 00:03:56,000 --> 00:03:57,480 newspapers. They also, you know, kept 79 00:03:57,520 --> 00:03:59,520 emphasizing how historic this would be. 80 00:03:59,520 --> 00:04:01,120 One of the biggest projects. That's right. 81 00:04:01,120 --> 00:04:03,680 Obviously, this is a New York real estate developer. 82 00:04:03,680 --> 00:04:06,760 This is what he wants. So what? 83 00:04:06,840 --> 00:04:08,040 What is? What is the tech? 84 00:04:08,040 --> 00:04:10,200 Read on Mumdata. Well, let me go back for a 85 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:11,440 second. You said that a lot of people in 86 00:04:11,440 --> 00:04:14,440 tech didn't, you wouldn't be tech's first choice. 87 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,200 And I, I think I generally agree with that. 88 00:04:16,200 --> 00:04:19,760 But I also want to point to one thing that is so interesting 89 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:23,560 about tech and why tech is different than the other kind of 90 00:04:23,560 --> 00:04:27,160 traditional industries here, business, industry, whatever, is 91 00:04:27,160 --> 00:04:32,240 that when they went, they went back through the primary, the 92 00:04:32,360 --> 00:04:34,880 mayoral primary and looked where all the donations came from. 93 00:04:35,160 --> 00:04:40,560 The employer, the business with the most employees who wrote 94 00:04:40,560 --> 00:04:44,640 checks to Zoron during the primary was you want to guess. 95 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:47,560 Google. Is Google yeah and and many 96 00:04:47,560 --> 00:04:50,160 other tech employers were high in that top. 10 was, but was he 97 00:04:50,160 --> 00:04:52,280 Google's most contributed candidate? 98 00:04:53,800 --> 00:04:55,400 I think so, but I'm not, I'm not certain. 99 00:04:55,440 --> 00:04:57,560 I can't say for sure. We should look that up and maybe 100 00:04:57,560 --> 00:05:01,280 put in the notes or something. I'll, I'll double check now. 101 00:05:01,480 --> 00:05:05,160 I think that where the employees are is not always where 102 00:05:05,600 --> 00:05:07,920 management and the executives are, to be fair. 103 00:05:08,240 --> 00:05:11,680 But I also don't think that a lot of the kind of traditional 104 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:15,680 finance firms, the real estate firms, I don't think they have 105 00:05:15,680 --> 00:05:19,720 that same dichotomy where their employees are all supporting the 106 00:05:19,800 --> 00:05:22,440 the kind of DSA candidate in the primary. 107 00:05:22,440 --> 00:05:26,120 That is a uniquely tech dynamic. And you and I know that that 108 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:27,720 dynamic has been part of the industry. 109 00:05:27,720 --> 00:05:30,400 When I when I had, you know, Keith Ruboy on the podcast the 110 00:05:30,400 --> 00:05:33,440 other day, you know, conservative pro Trump, he was 111 00:05:33,440 --> 00:05:35,520 sort of making the case that part of why all these, you know, 112 00:05:35,520 --> 00:05:39,440 tech CEOs needed to capitulate so much to Trump was, you know, 113 00:05:39,440 --> 00:05:41,880 because their employees, it all donated to the Democrats. 114 00:05:41,880 --> 00:05:45,440 And this was make good sort of a contorted argument, but it's 115 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:48,040 funny to hear it. So yes, the the rank and file in 116 00:05:48,040 --> 00:05:51,280 Silicon Valley and New York of these tech companies is fairly 117 00:05:51,280 --> 00:05:53,920 liberal and sometimes even to the point of supporting DSA. 118 00:05:54,040 --> 00:05:57,640 It also makes the even the executives who by and large 119 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:00,880 might be more even anti mom Donnie. 120 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:06,000 It, it kind of numbs that a little bit because even now, 121 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:10,920 even with AI, so much about success in tech is attracting 122 00:06:10,920 --> 00:06:13,680 the right talent. And this is all part of their 123 00:06:13,680 --> 00:06:16,600 competitive landscape too, you know, to be able to attract the 124 00:06:16,600 --> 00:06:19,120 right, smartest, best young people to come work at your 125 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:21,160 company. So it's there's a balance for 126 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,080 tech execs when you think about politics that is different than 127 00:06:25,080 --> 00:06:27,960 in other industries, I think. Who do you represent in tech? 128 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,360 I mean, it's interesting because you represent a lot of startups 129 00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,840 and those startup founders are often more similar, I imagine to 130 00:06:32,840 --> 00:06:35,480 some of the rank and file in terms of their outlook. 131 00:06:35,560 --> 00:06:38,520 And then then the execs or how do you think about who you 132 00:06:38,520 --> 00:06:39,920 represent? I'll tell you quickly how Tech 133 00:06:39,920 --> 00:06:42,120 NYC is set up at a high level. We can dig in. 134 00:06:42,120 --> 00:06:47,000 So Tech NYC has got about 500 members and it is a sliding 135 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:48,320 scale. So it's free for startups to 136 00:06:48,320 --> 00:06:52,680 join and then you know, the largest employers pay $60,000 a 137 00:06:52,680 --> 00:06:55,240 year to be members and and then investors have their own scale. 138 00:06:55,320 --> 00:06:59,840 So we have 500 total members. We have a board of about 60 139 00:06:59,840 --> 00:07:03,760 people. They are executives, CE OS, 140 00:07:04,360 --> 00:07:08,920 founders, GPS and firms, other senior execs from companies. 141 00:07:08,920 --> 00:07:11,880 So it's really, even though we spend a lot of time on politics, 142 00:07:11,880 --> 00:07:14,640 we're our main goal is to ensure that New York is the best place 143 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:16,040 to build and grow a tech company. 144 00:07:16,040 --> 00:07:19,200 So, so that's everything we do is through that vision. 145 00:07:19,280 --> 00:07:22,160 So we work with policy people, but we also really work with the 146 00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:24,880 executives themselves. So who do we represent? 147 00:07:24,920 --> 00:07:26,200 Tends to be the executives, yeah. 148 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:30,920 And do you survey like how do you decide what state has to 149 00:07:30,920 --> 00:07:33,920 take on an issue given you know, we can talk about tech with a 150 00:07:33,920 --> 00:07:35,880 broad brush, but then. It's really complicated. 151 00:07:35,920 --> 00:07:40,720 Well, yeah, this is, I don't have a very satisfying answer to 152 00:07:40,720 --> 00:07:43,080 this because I would tell you when we built the organization, 153 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:45,480 I was really worried about this. How do we do the right process? 154 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:47,000 How do we make sure we're getting it right? 155 00:07:47,000 --> 00:07:50,160 And something I've learned, we started the organization 10 156 00:07:50,160 --> 00:07:51,680 years ago. This is our 10th anniversary 157 00:07:51,680 --> 00:07:53,600 this year. Something I've learned that's so 158 00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:56,480 interesting is that part is actually pretty easy. 159 00:07:56,480 --> 00:07:59,640 There is not a lot of space, not space. 160 00:07:59,640 --> 00:08:02,360 There's there's not a lot. It's much more aligned and 161 00:08:02,360 --> 00:08:06,760 almost much more obvious which issues we should work on and why 162 00:08:06,760 --> 00:08:09,880 and how. Then I than I really feared 163 00:08:09,880 --> 00:08:10,800 going. I thought that would be much 164 00:08:10,800 --> 00:08:12,320 harder. Than what are the top three 165 00:08:12,320 --> 00:08:14,560 right now? I imagine like AI. 166 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,080 Fear. Yeah, it's. 167 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:19,480 All AI, it's like energy data centers. 168 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:21,360 Everything that like can touch right. 169 00:08:21,760 --> 00:08:24,600 Obviously, listen, I think something that's been really 170 00:08:24,600 --> 00:08:27,640 interesting over the past decade that's shifted in our work is 171 00:08:27,640 --> 00:08:30,520 when we first started the organization, the issues were 172 00:08:30,520 --> 00:08:33,679 all kind of core tech policy, like what impacts the company's 173 00:08:33,679 --> 00:08:37,159 bottom line, data privacy, There was a marketplace tax, like very 174 00:08:37,159 --> 00:08:41,440 tech specific issues. The work has broadened 175 00:08:41,440 --> 00:08:45,240 significantly over the past 10 years for many reasons, but one 176 00:08:45,240 --> 00:08:48,000 of the reasons that I find the most interesting is that 177 00:08:48,320 --> 00:08:52,360 increasingly every company is a tech company. 178 00:08:52,520 --> 00:08:54,960 Obviously, I mean it's like kind of a trite thing to say, but 179 00:08:54,960 --> 00:08:57,200 it's true. And increasingly, tech is 180 00:08:57,200 --> 00:09:00,960 becoming one of the biggest, if not the biggest industries here 181 00:09:00,960 --> 00:09:04,400 in New York City. And, and what that means is that 182 00:09:04,920 --> 00:09:08,760 now the industry is more and more made-up of New Yorkers than 183 00:09:09,200 --> 00:09:11,440 than people for whom tech is their primary. 184 00:09:11,440 --> 00:09:14,400 They care about everything, and so you're reflecting a broad set 185 00:09:14,400 --> 00:09:15,160 of interests. That's right. 186 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,600 So we already listen, we already talked about the Sunnyside like 187 00:09:17,720 --> 00:09:19,680 we're talking about housing, we're talking about public 188 00:09:19,680 --> 00:09:23,600 safety, we're talking about good schools, functioning public 189 00:09:23,600 --> 00:09:25,520 transit. We are talking more and more 190 00:09:25,520 --> 00:09:29,480 about the things that make it so that people who work in tech 191 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,640 want to live here. Because if people who work in 192 00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:35,160 tech want to live here, then the companies will continue to 193 00:09:35,160 --> 00:09:37,280 locate here, we think. And then everything. 194 00:09:37,400 --> 00:09:39,120 Everything. AIAIAI. 195 00:09:39,200 --> 00:09:41,640 Yeah. I want, you know, I, I recently 196 00:09:41,640 --> 00:09:45,680 had last year, Daniel Laurie, the mayor of San Francisco on 197 00:09:45,680 --> 00:09:47,720 stage one of my events. I was interviewing him. 198 00:09:48,480 --> 00:09:51,920 He was the most warmly received person on stage all day, you 199 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:54,760 know, probably at any of our events, you know, like Dario, 200 00:09:54,760 --> 00:09:57,680 the CEO of Anthropic. I mean, politicians, you know, 201 00:09:57,920 --> 00:10:00,120 are much more charismatic than CEOs. 202 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:03,240 And, you know, so he really had the crowd. 203 00:10:03,240 --> 00:10:06,000 They really were a believer. He was good at staying on 204 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:07,960 message. It's funny, though, when I was 205 00:10:07,960 --> 00:10:10,760 interviewing him, you know, I was like, yeah, the tech people 206 00:10:10,760 --> 00:10:12,000 love you. Like, why is that? 207 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,040 And he sort of made something, he made a point that, you know, 208 00:10:14,040 --> 00:10:15,880 they weren't, they didn't necessarily love him the whole 209 00:10:15,880 --> 00:10:17,600 campaign. You know, he wasn't necessarily 210 00:10:17,600 --> 00:10:20,080 their first choice. Some of them stuck with London 211 00:10:20,080 --> 00:10:21,360 breeding. But we don't need to get in the 212 00:10:21,360 --> 00:10:23,840 particulars of San Francisco. But now he has this warm 213 00:10:23,840 --> 00:10:25,840 embrace. And I think part of it is just 214 00:10:26,560 --> 00:10:30,160 he likes tech, defends tech, says positive things about tech, 215 00:10:30,400 --> 00:10:31,360 like what? What is what? 216 00:10:31,560 --> 00:10:33,280 What do you think he's figured out? 217 00:10:33,280 --> 00:10:36,240 And what would you like Zoram Amdani to, like, learn from it? 218 00:10:36,240 --> 00:10:40,040 That's realistic, given he is to the left a little bit of Lori, 219 00:10:40,040 --> 00:10:41,680 but Lori's the mayor of San Francisco. 220 00:10:42,360 --> 00:10:45,400 I, I don't think the politics are that fundamentally different 221 00:10:46,040 --> 00:10:49,320 from a right, left balance, but the messaging is different. 222 00:10:49,680 --> 00:10:52,120 I think that that what he's plugged into. 223 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:54,680 Also, you have to remember, of course, that it came on the 224 00:10:54,680 --> 00:10:58,440 backside of years of the city of San Francisco beating up on 225 00:10:58,440 --> 00:11:00,640 tech. And we were talking about this 226 00:11:00,640 --> 00:11:02,200 earlier before we started recording. 227 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:06,200 There's this political dynamic. I think This is why so many tech 228 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:11,000 leaders have kind of gone to the Trump side where, you know, 229 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,680 these these people, they built companies, their grow jobs, they 230 00:11:14,680 --> 00:11:16,640 make big investments. They feel like they've done 231 00:11:16,640 --> 00:11:19,040 everything right. We did everything we we set out 232 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:21,000 to do. We followed the rules. 233 00:11:21,080 --> 00:11:24,200 Sometimes we broke the rules, but we broke the rules in, in 234 00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:27,200 the conquest of bringing new technology to the world and 235 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:30,320 employing so many people. And, you know, that's, that's 236 00:11:30,320 --> 00:11:32,840 the tech world that I come from, that techno optimist world that 237 00:11:32,840 --> 00:11:35,840 gets made fun of a lot now, but it's actually like, it's pretty 238 00:11:35,840 --> 00:11:38,200 lovely. It's like a vision for the world 239 00:11:38,200 --> 00:11:40,600 that I wish were, were fundamentally true. 240 00:11:40,880 --> 00:11:43,600 And I think it is actually fundamentally true complex. 241 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,040 Anyway, I think then we've seen we see this backlash and these 242 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:50,400 are people. They're not, they're not robots, 243 00:11:50,400 --> 00:11:52,080 they're not companies, they're people. 244 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:55,200 And these people feel like, you know what? 245 00:11:55,200 --> 00:11:56,880 What did I do wrong all of a sudden? 246 00:11:56,880 --> 00:11:58,920 Why are you beating up on me? I. 247 00:11:59,600 --> 00:12:02,120 Right. I think one thing, and the 248 00:12:02,120 --> 00:12:05,480 YouTube commenters might not agree with this, but I think we 249 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,680 both have concluded is that, yeah, tech people and rich 250 00:12:08,680 --> 00:12:12,280 people really want to be like loved and appreciated and 251 00:12:12,280 --> 00:12:15,400 sometimes they care more, right? Everybody does, right? 252 00:12:15,480 --> 00:12:16,160 Right. It is a fun. 253 00:12:16,280 --> 00:12:19,960 They don't lose sight of that and it is sometimes less about 254 00:12:19,960 --> 00:12:22,880 the money seemingly. And more about always less about 255 00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:24,400 the money. But I think what happens is a 256 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,880 lot of the politicians, both on the far left and the far right, 257 00:12:27,920 --> 00:12:31,200 they think it's about the money, you know, and they're well, 258 00:12:31,200 --> 00:12:33,200 they're so rich, why do why would they care? 259 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,720 Why does it matter? But but again, I think they 260 00:12:35,720 --> 00:12:38,440 sometimes, and Daniel Laurie's done a great job of this. 261 00:12:38,800 --> 00:12:41,640 They forget that under all these are still just people. 262 00:12:41,760 --> 00:12:45,880 And when they are feeling attacked as people, they're 263 00:12:45,880 --> 00:12:50,080 going to react. And their reaction can be like, 264 00:12:50,240 --> 00:12:52,560 well, screw you. Like I'm gonna go to the White 265 00:12:52,560 --> 00:12:54,760 House now. But Daniel, Lori speaks their. 266 00:12:54,760 --> 00:12:56,640 Language, right, Daniel? Lori compliments them, says 267 00:12:56,640 --> 00:13:00,240 thank you, even as he knows he represents broader San Francisco 268 00:13:00,240 --> 00:13:03,240 and it's not really their town to run. 269 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:08,120 I mean, the, you know, the classic madman madman line. 270 00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:10,000 That is what the money is for. You know, there. 271 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:13,320 I think the the response is often like, you're getting paid 272 00:13:13,320 --> 00:13:15,240 well. Why do you also need to get 273 00:13:15,240 --> 00:13:17,760 thanked by politicians? There are lots of, you know, 274 00:13:17,920 --> 00:13:20,240 politicians need to be looking out for the rank and file 275 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:22,680 person, not spending all their time thanking people who have 276 00:13:22,680 --> 00:13:25,360 already been rewarded by society. 277 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:27,760 I mean, I don't know what's. It's really interesting. 278 00:13:27,760 --> 00:13:31,160 I mean, I think from the way I see the world, which, you know, 279 00:13:31,160 --> 00:13:35,040 this is just an opinion, of course, I think you can get 280 00:13:35,040 --> 00:13:38,200 farther if you try and work together in that way that like 281 00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:43,120 making that person an enemy because it's politically 282 00:13:43,120 --> 00:13:47,880 expedient is I think long term more harmful given the realities 283 00:13:47,880 --> 00:13:50,480 of the world we live in. Like the example I always go 284 00:13:50,480 --> 00:13:54,560 back to, the first time I really saw this was when I was in San 285 00:13:54,560 --> 00:13:58,240 Francisco and everyone was throwing rocks at the Google 286 00:13:58,240 --> 00:13:59,920 buses. And I was like, what are you 287 00:13:59,920 --> 00:14:02,040 doing? Like those engineers, you want 288 00:14:02,040 --> 00:14:05,400 those people to be with you. The people on the bus, they're 289 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,840 actually, most of them are young, most of them are early in 290 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,320 their career. Most of them don't have families 291 00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,000 or else they wouldn't be living in these apartments and 292 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,360 commuting at the Google bus. And you're turning them into 293 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240 enemies. And I think we'd all have been 294 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:21,880 better served had we had the Democrats done a better job of 295 00:14:21,880 --> 00:14:25,240 bringing those people in the fold, because those people who 296 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:28,520 had rocks thrown at their buses are now, many of them, I'm sure, 297 00:14:28,520 --> 00:14:32,560 people supporting Trump. So can the tech business 298 00:14:32,560 --> 00:14:36,320 community have a strong working relationship with Zoram? 299 00:14:36,320 --> 00:14:39,760 I'm Donnie Given seems unlikely that he's going to run around 300 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:42,360 saying I love the tech business community. 301 00:14:42,440 --> 00:14:45,000 I guess that's sort of the existential question. 302 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:46,880 I think they can. I think we will. 303 00:14:46,880 --> 00:14:50,120 I think there will be things we disagree on and I think there 304 00:14:50,120 --> 00:14:53,240 will be things we agree on. And what we're trying to do at 305 00:14:53,240 --> 00:15:00,160 Tech NYC is identify the things we can agree on and, and make 306 00:15:00,160 --> 00:15:01,640 real progress there. And let me just tell you what I 307 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:03,520 think some of those are. And I think this is true, by the 308 00:15:03,520 --> 00:15:06,800 way, for every city. I think New York has unique 309 00:15:06,800 --> 00:15:10,200 scale and we should be really doing some of this work here 310 00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:12,160 immediately. But I think it's true 311 00:15:12,160 --> 00:15:14,640 everywhere. Tech in government start with 312 00:15:14,640 --> 00:15:18,640 that especially, especially when we are talking about the 313 00:15:18,640 --> 00:15:21,680 affordability crisis. The mayor just announced that 314 00:15:21,680 --> 00:15:24,800 every city agency is going to have a chief savings officer who 315 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,280 will have 45 days to identify savings within the agencies. 316 00:15:29,280 --> 00:15:34,280 It is like a an ideal situation to use tech and dare I say AI to 317 00:15:34,320 --> 00:15:38,040 identify savings. Democrats are traumatized by the 318 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:40,120 Doge experience. Here, I mean, but this I've 319 00:15:40,120 --> 00:15:41,560 been, I can't not stop talking about this. 320 00:15:41,560 --> 00:15:47,840 Like imagine doge with empathy, like imagine doge in in in a way 321 00:15:47,840 --> 00:15:50,600 that felt more culturally aligned with New York City. 322 00:15:50,600 --> 00:15:53,720 You can totally envision that, right? 323 00:15:53,920 --> 00:15:55,960 You can. We're not talking about firing 324 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:59,480 people, but take a resource trapped organization like city 325 00:15:59,480 --> 00:16:02,880 government that has the most antiquated technology you can 326 00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:07,120 imagine and think about how you can identify savings within that 327 00:16:07,120 --> 00:16:09,320 framework to make city government work better for New 328 00:16:09,320 --> 00:16:11,360 Yorkers. It's like it's so obvious, 329 00:16:11,480 --> 00:16:13,840 right? So, OK, that I think that's one 330 00:16:13,840 --> 00:16:16,200 place, right? And everybody on the face wants 331 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,280 a productive yes city government, so it's hard to 332 00:16:18,280 --> 00:16:20,520 disagree with. It and in fact some of this I 333 00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:24,640 think has to do with age. We have a young mayor, he has a 334 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:27,640 young team, is the first time that I, I don't know what the 335 00:16:27,640 --> 00:16:30,640 exact numbers are, but I imagine there are more digital natives 336 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:33,080 working in City Hall right now than there have ever. 337 00:16:33,080 --> 00:16:36,080 Been and one of the things you know, I ultimately did, you 338 00:16:36,080 --> 00:16:38,720 know, certainly ranked mum Donnie above Cuomo. 339 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:40,720 He was you know, I was I think it was Brad Lander. 340 00:16:40,720 --> 00:16:49,720 But like the he understands that city government needs to work 341 00:16:49,760 --> 00:16:52,200 and the government needs to work if people are going to sign up 342 00:16:52,200 --> 00:16:56,520 for the progressive agenda and that you can't have sort of, you 343 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,960 know, bleeding heart without like the governance you have to. 344 00:16:58,960 --> 00:17:00,360 Deliver zone. You have to deliver, right? 345 00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,680 Right. And clearly you live in a world. 346 00:17:02,680 --> 00:17:06,440 I mean, the great example of seeing technology work in 347 00:17:06,440 --> 00:17:09,839 practice in government to me is Omni tapped to pay on the 348 00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:13,200 subway. We all swiped our subway cards 349 00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:17,400 and then during Covad they redid the entire subway system. 350 00:17:17,400 --> 00:17:20,440 They put in tap to pay technology and it just works 351 00:17:20,880 --> 00:17:21,920 and. It's great for tourists. 352 00:17:22,079 --> 00:17:24,359 I mean, it's great as local, but it's amazing for tourists. 353 00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:26,480 And I think about it a lot in this context. 354 00:17:27,440 --> 00:17:30,240 Tap to Pay technology using Apple Pay on your iPhone every. 355 00:17:30,320 --> 00:17:32,440 I mean, how many times a day do you use Apple Pay? 356 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:34,320 All the time. It should be table stakes, 357 00:17:34,320 --> 00:17:35,920 right? It right, It should be table 358 00:17:35,920 --> 00:17:37,760 stakes. And when you use the New York 359 00:17:37,760 --> 00:17:39,760 City subway, it is table stakes now. 360 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:44,480 But we're not even talking about like jumping, leapfrogging to 361 00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:47,160 the next technology. We're talking about getting to 362 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:50,480 the level of technology that everyone has in their pocket all 363 00:17:50,480 --> 00:17:55,320 the time anyway. So #1 embrace tech, deliver on 364 00:17:55,320 --> 00:17:58,240 the efficient. Progressive number 2 is really 365 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:05,200 focus on education and think hard about. 366 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:07,240 I mean, this one's very. Is this. 367 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:10,200 Gifted in tracking or no, not to. 368 00:18:10,360 --> 00:18:12,720 I'm curious what you're using on education. 369 00:18:12,720 --> 00:18:15,840 But it's funny, like, you know, Gary Tan in San Francisco, I 370 00:18:15,840 --> 00:18:20,080 think tweeted or he has this Garry's listing now that a New 371 00:18:20,080 --> 00:18:23,840 York Post story where it says Zoran's gonna get rid of gifted. 372 00:18:23,840 --> 00:18:26,760 And it's not even clear if they've really done anything 373 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,640 more there. But people keep the right wing 374 00:18:28,640 --> 00:18:30,640 media keeps putting that one front and center. 375 00:18:30,640 --> 00:18:31,640 They love this one. Right. 376 00:18:31,640 --> 00:18:33,640 And obviously the tech community is very sensitive. 377 00:18:33,640 --> 00:18:36,000 I will say that. Not elevating, You know, the 378 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:40,480 geniuses among us. The the New York City education 379 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:43,200 is very complicated. It's very complicated. 380 00:18:43,200 --> 00:18:46,400 And on the GNT in particular, like gifted and talented, gifted 381 00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:49,280 and talented, like tech, the tech industry, I would say by 382 00:18:49,280 --> 00:18:53,360 and large would not be happy if that were eliminated. 383 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:55,240 I mean, they're very happy if it were eliminated, Definitely 384 00:18:55,240 --> 00:18:58,440 wouldn't be happy if it were cut back on. 385 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,600 So I think, but we haven't really, there's a lot of 386 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:05,400 rhetoric, but we haven't seen what's going to exactly happen 387 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,040 there. So like, maybe I'll come back 388 00:19:07,040 --> 00:19:09,520 when we know more. I know it is sort of one of 389 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,000 those distraction issues in that it gets everybody who's sort of 390 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:14,080 fired up. Another big one here is charter 391 00:19:14,080 --> 00:19:16,440 schools. That's something that the tech 392 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,120 industry has been very supportive of, and that's 393 00:19:20,120 --> 00:19:22,040 something that the Mamdani administration seems less 394 00:19:22,040 --> 00:19:23,960 supportive of. So that also might come to a 395 00:19:23,960 --> 00:19:25,200 head. Again, we'll see. 396 00:19:25,440 --> 00:19:27,040 Where can they agree on education? 397 00:19:27,960 --> 00:19:30,920 Thinking about curriculum, OK, Thinking about curriculum, 398 00:19:30,920 --> 00:19:34,520 thinking about how we are preparing students not just for 399 00:19:34,520 --> 00:19:38,240 jobs of the future important, but also preparing students to 400 00:19:38,240 --> 00:19:41,600 like, live in a world where these tools are out there. 401 00:19:42,320 --> 00:19:44,920 You know, one of the things that I've been thinking about 402 00:19:44,920 --> 00:19:49,560 politically is 10/11/12 years ago when when Bill de Blasio 403 00:19:49,560 --> 00:19:54,080 first became mayor, Fred Wilson, former chair of Techno ICS 404 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,400 board, venture capitalist of course from Union Square 405 00:19:56,400 --> 00:20:00,360 Ventures, kind of went in, saw the new mayor and said, I think 406 00:20:00,400 --> 00:20:02,640 we should work together to ensure that there's computer 407 00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:04,640 science education in every school. 408 00:20:05,000 --> 00:20:08,920 And they launched A10 year public private partnership 409 00:20:08,920 --> 00:20:11,920 called CS for All and they ensured that there was. 410 00:20:12,600 --> 00:20:15,400 Computer science education in every city, in New York, in 411 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:17,760 every single New York City public school. 412 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:19,880 And that that's the answer, right? 413 00:20:19,920 --> 00:20:21,840 Maybe that answer looks a little different now. 414 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:26,720 The CS education of, you know, 2014 is not the same as what we 415 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:29,960 think the tech education should look like in 2026. 416 00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,160 But those are the places I think where we really can and should 417 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:36,440 be working together to support the kids in the schools. 418 00:20:36,960 --> 00:20:40,000 Is tech a barrier to getting cell phones out of school? 419 00:20:40,000 --> 00:20:41,160 Or no, we supported that. Yeah. 420 00:20:41,160 --> 00:20:44,600 That was something that we did with the governor last year, the 421 00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:46,640 cell phone ban that, you know, this was so funny. 422 00:20:46,640 --> 00:20:48,880 We could talk. The politics around tech are so 423 00:20:48,880 --> 00:20:51,760 interesting. So we, Tech NYC supported the 424 00:20:51,760 --> 00:20:54,960 governor's proposal for the Belle de Belle ban to get cell 425 00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,120 phones out of schools. And we did that very publicly. 426 00:20:58,040 --> 00:20:59,960 And a lot of people called me after, and they were like, wow, 427 00:20:59,960 --> 00:21:02,520 I can't believe you did that, You know, that that was great. 428 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,840 Or that whatever they said. But I got a lot of incoming and 429 00:21:05,840 --> 00:21:08,840 I was like, I don't understand how our politics have gotten so 430 00:21:08,840 --> 00:21:11,760 calcified that you can't understand how I run an 431 00:21:11,760 --> 00:21:15,640 organization who's literally main goal is to support the tech 432 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:18,840 ecosystem in New York City and state, but also understand that 433 00:21:18,840 --> 00:21:21,160 kids shouldn't have cell phones in classes like these. 434 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,360 This is very weak. And obviously a lot of these 435 00:21:23,360 --> 00:21:26,040 tech executives themselves are very careful about their own 436 00:21:26,040 --> 00:21:29,240 children, yeah, using devices. So they understand that it is a. 437 00:21:29,960 --> 00:21:32,240 I think it's a device. What's made a lot of our 438 00:21:32,240 --> 00:21:35,080 politics actually really hard is that you people feel like you 439 00:21:35,080 --> 00:21:38,200 can't say those two types of truths, that you can't hold 440 00:21:38,200 --> 00:21:40,800 those two truths together. Like, of course both those 441 00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:45,480 things can be true. In fact, I think they need to be 442 00:21:45,480 --> 00:21:48,000 true. I think the tech ecosystem will 443 00:21:48,000 --> 00:21:52,680 thrive if we are more open about the challenges, which is that 444 00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:55,520 like, kids shouldn't be on phones during class. 445 00:21:55,520 --> 00:21:57,440 Like, of course they shouldn't be. 446 00:21:57,520 --> 00:22:00,800 That's insane. So education is number 2. 447 00:22:01,120 --> 00:22:02,200 It seemed like you had a third one. 448 00:22:03,560 --> 00:22:06,440 I mean, I have a lot. I think those are like the first 449 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,240 kind of places we're looking and then, you know, I think that. 450 00:22:09,400 --> 00:22:12,360 Are you on the YIMBY train as an organization? 451 00:22:13,960 --> 00:22:16,360 Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm definitely on the 452 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:18,080 YIMBY train. I think we've always been on the 453 00:22:18,080 --> 00:22:21,320 YIMBY train. I think that's also it's 454 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,520 interesting to see which pieces of the kind of tech zeitgeist 455 00:22:26,480 --> 00:22:29,760 are the same here and in the Valley, and which ones are 456 00:22:29,760 --> 00:22:32,440 different and like the MB train, Same, same, same. 457 00:22:33,000 --> 00:22:35,360 Well, in some ways California needs it. 458 00:22:35,440 --> 00:22:38,240 I mean, New York is getting on it after California. 459 00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,000 California got to more of like a crisis point, whereas obviously 460 00:22:41,000 --> 00:22:43,920 New York is. Large city California got to 461 00:22:43,920 --> 00:22:45,480 such a crisis. There's a number of reasons, of 462 00:22:45,480 --> 00:22:48,960 course, but we should talk about the subway and public transit 463 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:54,360 and how transformative it is to have such a huge, 24/7 464 00:22:54,640 --> 00:22:57,920 functioning public transit system, which means you can here 465 00:22:57,920 --> 00:23:01,880 in New York, which means you can live, you know, you have much 466 00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,320 more geographic diversity and where you can live and get to 467 00:23:04,320 --> 00:23:07,000 work. And that's a huge 468 00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:10,280 differentiator. How do taxes play into all of 469 00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:11,400 this? I mean, we, you know, I talked 470 00:23:11,400 --> 00:23:14,120 earlier about earlier about the mayor of San Francisco who's 471 00:23:14,120 --> 00:23:17,080 been pro tech, but obviously now California, you have 472 00:23:17,840 --> 00:23:20,080 billionaires literally fleeing the state because they're 473 00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:23,560 worried about a referendum. I mean, referendums themselves 474 00:23:23,560 --> 00:23:26,680 are funny because obviously it's like there's no politician 475 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:28,720 necessarily to stop it. It's, you know, the public could 476 00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:31,880 do it and there's nothing to be done in so there, you know, we 477 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:34,520 have the Google Co founders leaving the state and it's crazy 478 00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:37,120 people to get they're not coming to New York, right, They're 479 00:23:37,120 --> 00:23:38,560 going to Florida. I mean, I guess if you're going 480 00:23:38,560 --> 00:23:40,200 to run from taxes, you're going to run. 481 00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,960 If you're running from taxes, this is probably not the place 482 00:23:42,960 --> 00:23:44,280 you run to. Have you tried to get it? 483 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,560 Have you made the pitch to anybody, like moved to New York 484 00:23:46,640 --> 00:23:48,840 because of the billionaire tax issue? 485 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,920 Every time a politician says they're going to raise taxes, 486 00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:56,560 people who represent companies, wealthy people, we're always 487 00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,880 like everyone's going to leave. And the politicians are like, 488 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,280 they're never, you're never going to leave. 489 00:24:00,280 --> 00:24:02,160 You always say that. And it's this kind of like game 490 00:24:02,160 --> 00:24:04,960 of chicken and mouse. Chicken and mouse? 491 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,440 Is that no cat mouse cat? Mouse, Chicken and egg, Cotton 492 00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:10,320 mouse. It's like it's. 493 00:24:11,320 --> 00:24:13,240 Fine, whatever. It's, it's like, you know, it's 494 00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,440 this little or, or that isn't even the right analogy. 495 00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:18,560 The actually the right analogy is it's a little bit of like the 496 00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:21,440 boy who cried wolf, which is to say like, you're never really 497 00:24:21,440 --> 00:24:22,840 going to leave. And then they're like, no, we 498 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:25,120 will leave. But what's happened in 499 00:24:25,120 --> 00:24:27,480 California has been like, no, no, no, they're going to leave 500 00:24:27,640 --> 00:24:31,520 like, so I think that is interesting to know at what is 501 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:35,440 the number, you know what, what is enough to push you out. 502 00:24:35,920 --> 00:24:39,400 And I don't think it's ever just a tax proposal alone. 503 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:41,440 But again, I think it gets to what we're. 504 00:24:41,440 --> 00:24:44,360 Talking about in the California 1, it seems like there's 505 00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:46,960 potential to tax unrealized gains. 506 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:50,000 Yeah, control of companies. It was constructed and so it did 507 00:24:50,000 --> 00:24:52,080 really poorly. There was a high risk that if it 508 00:24:52,080 --> 00:24:53,720 went. Through it could yeah, hit 509 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:55,800 specific people in a. And it would hit people before 510 00:24:55,800 --> 00:24:58,640 they're liquid in a way that would be really is right 511 00:24:58,760 --> 00:25:01,760 unrealized gains part. You said that like so I mean 512 00:25:01,760 --> 00:25:05,720 that is its own disaster there. But I think there is a feeling 513 00:25:05,720 --> 00:25:11,320 in tech this kind of like we've been a punching bag for so long 514 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:13,880 and we're just sick of being your punching bag. 515 00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:18,360 You know, I'd note that most of the billionaires that I've seen 516 00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:22,160 reported having left California are a little bit older. 517 00:25:22,160 --> 00:25:25,720 They don't have school age kids. Much tougher to pick up and move 518 00:25:26,160 --> 00:25:28,440 when you know you don't have school age kids because everyone 519 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,000 uses that app where you count your nights. 520 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:32,280 Like these people aren't selling their California homes. 521 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:36,320 Some might be, but they're just going to spend like, you know, 522 00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,240 51% of their nights somewhere else or whatever it is. 523 00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:41,920 But but with that goes the tax revenue, which is significant 524 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:43,840 for a state. So what is? 525 00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:47,360 What's the How much time are you spending opposing taxes on 526 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:49,880 behalf of the tech? Community right now. 527 00:25:51,520 --> 00:25:53,720 Because I'm Donnie is saying we need more money. 528 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:54,920 And it's. Like we'll do property. 529 00:25:54,920 --> 00:25:58,600 Tax, I think that's a good that's there isn't really a live 530 00:25:58,600 --> 00:26:00,920 proposal, if there were a tax proposal. 531 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:03,680 So we're actually in a really interesting time in New York 532 00:26:03,680 --> 00:26:07,400 State's political cycle. We're in the budget process in 533 00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:09,880 Albany right now, which will go on for another month or two, 534 00:26:09,960 --> 00:26:12,720 yeah, two months. And then, you know, our session 535 00:26:12,720 --> 00:26:16,680 here goes until summer. And so right now, this is the 536 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,440 busiest time on a lot of these political things. 537 00:26:19,880 --> 00:26:22,920 There really isn't a tax proposal to react to. 538 00:26:22,920 --> 00:26:27,080 If there was some live tax proposal, but the governor's 539 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:31,760 been really consistent that she will not raise income taxes and 540 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:33,880 you can't do it without her. She's done an amazing job. 541 00:26:34,040 --> 00:26:35,480 It's been amazing. She's amazing. 542 00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:37,320 I'm. I mean, maybe you're not 543 00:26:37,320 --> 00:26:39,600 shocked, but it took me a while. But not shocked like when she 544 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:42,040 delayed congestion. Pricing, I was like, terrible. 545 00:26:42,040 --> 00:26:43,960 And then it was like, oh, you're totally right. 546 00:26:43,960 --> 00:26:47,960 That was the savvy move. She has been she's she's just 547 00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,560 she's great, but she she's done things for the state and for 548 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:53,600 tech specifically that have been so good. 549 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:57,480 And she just does the work. You know, one thing well, 550 00:26:57,560 --> 00:26:59,480 there's a handful of things. One one of the things she's done 551 00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,120 that is the coolest is she has funded a public private 552 00:27:03,120 --> 00:27:04,800 partnership. So there's private dollars too, 553 00:27:05,080 --> 00:27:08,280 called Empire AI, which is amazing. 554 00:27:08,840 --> 00:27:13,760 It is a independent 5O1C3 that she's funded. 555 00:27:14,400 --> 00:27:17,040 It's a coalition of research institutions. 556 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,840 It includes our city system, CUNY, our state system, SUNY, 557 00:27:20,840 --> 00:27:26,720 Columbia, Cornell, NYURPI, Rochester schools, you know, all 558 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:28,600 these private and public institutions. 559 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:31,080 They are building a supercomputer in Buffalo. 560 00:27:31,080 --> 00:27:34,440 They already have the first version up and going. 561 00:27:34,440 --> 00:27:39,160 But the eventual final state will be huge It it will be I 562 00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,640 think 1 of, if not in the end, the most powerful, the biggest 563 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,320 academic research computer surely in the country, maybe the 564 00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,480 world. And New York academics are the 565 00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:50,920 only people who have access to it. 566 00:27:50,960 --> 00:27:54,800 And it's amazing. And right now really only 567 00:27:55,040 --> 00:27:57,680 private sector has access to the kind of compute that our 568 00:27:59,160 --> 00:28:00,840 academics have because of Empire AI. 569 00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:04,480 It is incredibly forward-looking, incredible for 570 00:28:04,480 --> 00:28:07,040 the state. I mean that when you think about 571 00:28:07,040 --> 00:28:08,880 what Stanford did for the Valley, I think that's what 572 00:28:08,880 --> 00:28:12,160 Empire AI will do for New York. Because what happens is you've 573 00:28:12,160 --> 00:28:15,600 got these postdocs and and other professors and they're choosing 574 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:17,880 which school to go to, and they're going to find out that 575 00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:21,280 the only computer on which they can do their research is in New 576 00:28:21,280 --> 00:28:23,440 York. Part part of me is skeptical 577 00:28:23,440 --> 00:28:26,320 just because, you know, the scale of investment on private 578 00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:29,600 enterprise in San Francisco is so large that if these, you 579 00:28:29,600 --> 00:28:32,200 know, Neo Labs and, you know, opening Anthropic, they get so 580 00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:34,680 much money. On the other hand, obviously, 581 00:28:34,680 --> 00:28:37,840 you know, Mayor Bloomberg's work in New York establishing, you 582 00:28:37,840 --> 00:28:42,040 know, a tech campus here really did change sort of the 583 00:28:42,040 --> 00:28:43,440 penetration. So some of these government 584 00:28:43,440 --> 00:28:46,400 projects do. Can't turn into something I 585 00:28:46,400 --> 00:28:50,320 totally support the companies creating compute for academics. 586 00:28:50,320 --> 00:28:52,880 Like the more compute for academics and research I think 587 00:28:52,880 --> 00:28:55,480 the better in general. But there are a number of 588 00:28:55,480 --> 00:28:58,480 academics and there is good reason to think that academics 589 00:28:58,760 --> 00:29:01,480 want access to compute that is their own. 590 00:29:01,600 --> 00:29:04,520 You know no one else, I mean technically in this instance 591 00:29:04,520 --> 00:29:08,000 OF501-C3 owns it, but but they are they have control over it. 592 00:29:08,120 --> 00:29:12,440 No one else can do or say what kind of research can happen on 593 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:13,880 that machine. You know the role of government, 594 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,080 Yeah, sort of independent, non corporate. 595 00:29:16,080 --> 00:29:18,120 That's right. And, and how can we help 596 00:29:18,240 --> 00:29:22,040 government, especially with, you know, the way the federal 597 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:25,920 government is clamp, clamping down on funding, research and 598 00:29:26,680 --> 00:29:31,280 just kind of thinking about funding for universities, it's 599 00:29:31,280 --> 00:29:34,280 even more important. And this is the role state 600 00:29:34,280 --> 00:29:37,640 government can play that role. They are in a unique position to 601 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:39,680 be able to fund at scale. You know, it's going to end up 602 00:29:39,680 --> 00:29:43,080 being like a $700 million machine over time. 603 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:45,080 And so that's been that's it's amazing. 604 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:49,440 And she's done a bunch of other great stuff too. 605 00:29:49,440 --> 00:29:52,040 She, we worked really hard with her at the end of last year. 606 00:29:52,040 --> 00:29:57,000 I'm sure we've talked a lot about the SB53 and the Rays Act 607 00:29:57,000 --> 00:29:58,760 here in New York, the two big kind of. 608 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:00,240 AI Regulation. Yeah. 609 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,400 And one thing we did here with the leadership of Governor 610 00:30:03,400 --> 00:30:07,160 Hochul, she was really, really just great on this. 611 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:11,200 She kind of took the bill that we had on the table here and it 612 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:15,640 was after SB53 had become law in California and, and looked at it 613 00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:18,560 and was like, we can do a version of this, but let's make 614 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:20,920 them work together. And in the absence of 615 00:30:20,920 --> 00:30:24,160 congressional action, in the absence of Congress, like 616 00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:25,680 creating. Match it with California so 617 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:27,080 there wouldn't be two regimes, right? 618 00:30:27,240 --> 00:30:29,640 So it's like, and it's important and we're going to have 619 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:31,920 guidelines here and we're not going to just let the companies 620 00:30:31,920 --> 00:30:34,360 run amok. But what we're going to do is 621 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:38,320 also make it easy or at least make it streamline for the 622 00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,000 companies to comply. We're not going to create all 623 00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:43,720 kinds of barriers just because. And so that was great. 624 00:30:43,720 --> 00:30:45,680 That was like real leadership that was hard to get done. 625 00:30:45,920 --> 00:30:48,320 The public seems very concerned about data centers. 626 00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:51,800 They seem more worried about AI than upbeat. 627 00:30:51,880 --> 00:30:55,680 I mean, I think we, we literally saw this week that, you know, 628 00:30:55,760 --> 00:30:59,320 block is laying off like 40% of their workers that they're 629 00:30:59,320 --> 00:31:02,520 attributing to AI. So I guess workers have a right 630 00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:04,440 to be worried about AI on some level. 631 00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:05,080 I don't know. What. 632 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:08,680 Yeah. What What is your read on text 633 00:31:09,840 --> 00:31:13,800 sentiment with the electorate? I think it's a very good 634 00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:15,720 question. This is something I worry a lot 635 00:31:15,720 --> 00:31:19,040 about too. I think that if we don't get 636 00:31:19,040 --> 00:31:21,320 this moment right, we'll, you know, we'll really be, we could 637 00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,120 be shooting ourselves in the foot here, here across the 638 00:31:25,120 --> 00:31:27,920 country. You know, competitiveness 639 00:31:27,920 --> 00:31:32,520 matters, you know, New York versus, let's say Texas, but 640 00:31:32,520 --> 00:31:34,440 also America versus China or whatever. 641 00:31:34,440 --> 00:31:39,720 Like I, for starters, I come at this from the vantage point that 642 00:31:39,720 --> 00:31:43,400 like technology is coming. There's some tweaks around the 643 00:31:43,400 --> 00:31:46,600 side that regulation can shift it a little bit one way or 644 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:50,360 another, but it's coming. So we can either find a way to 645 00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,760 build it here to figure out how to make it work here, or 646 00:31:54,760 --> 00:31:57,600 somewhere else. I agree with that, but yeah, I'm 647 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:58,760 not sure the. Voters. 648 00:31:59,160 --> 00:32:01,040 They they are trying to kill data centers. 649 00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,520 I mean, the data center, well, to go back to Governor Hochul, 650 00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,640 she's got a great proposal on this, which is actually it was 651 00:32:06,640 --> 00:32:09,080 in her budget before. Trump has said something 652 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:11,720 similar, which is you can build it here, but you can't put it on 653 00:32:11,720 --> 00:32:13,400 our grid. You know, you have to pay for 654 00:32:13,400 --> 00:32:15,640 your own power. And that's, you know, that like 655 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,280 more politicians to find a way to get to, yes, within a 656 00:32:21,280 --> 00:32:23,440 framework like that is what I think we need to see. 657 00:32:23,440 --> 00:32:25,480 But I do worry about the sentiment. 658 00:32:27,200 --> 00:32:32,160 I worry too, that like so many politicians, just kind of follow 659 00:32:32,160 --> 00:32:35,800 those poles and then chase, Chase that chase where the 660 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:37,280 voters are instead of trying to be. 661 00:32:37,280 --> 00:32:43,400 Leaders, the long arc of tech, One lesson sort of politicians 662 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:47,400 learned and the public was we didn't regulate social media and 663 00:32:47,400 --> 00:32:50,640 then we came to regret it and it was too powerful to put back in 664 00:32:50,640 --> 00:32:52,600 the box. And we don't necessarily enjoy 665 00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:56,040 our time on it. And I'm sort of sympathetic to 666 00:32:56,040 --> 00:32:59,480 that on social media, whereas I like AI. 667 00:32:59,480 --> 00:33:03,600 To me, when AI's done well, it's sort of a truth seeking valuable 668 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:06,160 thing like improving our quality of life. 669 00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,240 Yeah. I don't know. 670 00:33:08,440 --> 00:33:12,240 How do you sort of stop politicians and the electorate 671 00:33:12,240 --> 00:33:14,360 from taking well? Let me tell you some of the 672 00:33:14,440 --> 00:33:16,880 things we're doing right now. One thing we're doing in 673 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:20,280 particular that is I'm so proud of is we have a project at the 674 00:33:20,280 --> 00:33:22,840 Tech NYC Foundation called Decoded Futures. 675 00:33:22,840 --> 00:33:28,280 You can Google it, learn more. And what it is, is it's all 676 00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,160 again through our foundation. So it's free and we take 677 00:33:32,160 --> 00:33:33,880 cohorts. We're in our 4th cohort right 678 00:33:33,880 --> 00:33:38,800 now of about 2025 nonprofits. And we do 8 weeks, We pair them 679 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,880 with volunteers from the tech sector and we do 8 weeks of 680 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:46,320 training to teach them about AI, how to build AI, how to use AI 681 00:33:46,320 --> 00:33:48,000 internally, how to also just. Change. 682 00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:50,080 These are the frameworks. Or nonprofits, OK. 683 00:33:50,160 --> 00:33:53,840 Nonprofits, OK, but the idea like. 684 00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:56,320 Get them hooked. Yeah, and get them hooked. 685 00:33:56,960 --> 00:33:58,880 I mean it's. Actually no, if people are vibe 686 00:33:58,880 --> 00:34:01,560 coding seeing the value like building something or using. 687 00:34:01,560 --> 00:34:04,840 It right or I mean to go back to the block example that's you 688 00:34:04,840 --> 00:34:09,639 know they today announced how many people the layoffs like 689 00:34:09,639 --> 00:34:12,520 thousands, thousands 4000 or something I don't know yeah I. 690 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:14,480 Think it was 4000. Yeah, I think it was 4000. 691 00:34:14,600 --> 00:34:17,880 But most nonprofits, city agencies, these are resource 692 00:34:17,880 --> 00:34:20,440 trapped organizations. We're not talking about laying 693 00:34:20,440 --> 00:34:22,400 people off. We're talking about being able 694 00:34:22,400 --> 00:34:25,600 to do more. And, and some of it is so basic. 695 00:34:25,679 --> 00:34:29,679 You know, it, it's, it's thinking about AI tools that 696 00:34:29,679 --> 00:34:32,920 help you automate a spreadsheet. Most people I know who go work 697 00:34:32,920 --> 00:34:35,760 in the social sector, who go work for nonprofits don't go 698 00:34:35,760 --> 00:34:37,760 there because they want to sit in front of Google Sheets all 699 00:34:37,760 --> 00:34:39,280 day. You know, they're, they want to 700 00:34:39,280 --> 00:34:41,400 be out in the field. They want to go do the work that 701 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:43,560 they're passionate about. That's why they choose to work 702 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:48,719 in the nonprofit sector. And something AI can do is like. 703 00:34:48,920 --> 00:34:51,480 Skip the bullshit work. Yeah, create capacity, create 704 00:34:51,480 --> 00:34:55,840 capacity. And and we think fundamentally 705 00:34:56,719 --> 00:34:59,160 that a couple things. Number one, you start working. 706 00:34:59,440 --> 00:35:00,920 We started in New York with nonprofits. 707 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:03,720 Nonprofits, you know, they're hundreds of thousands of 708 00:35:03,720 --> 00:35:06,120 nonprofits here. Nonprofits do so much of the 709 00:35:06,120 --> 00:35:10,560 social services that New Yorkers depend on, you know, meeting New 710 00:35:10,560 --> 00:35:12,000 Yorkers where they are. It doesn't have to be 711 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,280 nonprofits. That's that's our project. 712 00:35:14,280 --> 00:35:15,400 But whatever. You can do this with small 713 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:16,560 businesses. You can do it with city 714 00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:18,560 government. Imagine any small resource 715 00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,840 limited organization that probably doesn't have a lot of 716 00:35:21,840 --> 00:35:24,000 internal technical skill. OK. 717 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:26,360 So #1 we've been doing that and it's been great. 718 00:35:26,400 --> 00:35:29,560 And the nonprofits, at the end of their eight weeks, tell you 719 00:35:29,560 --> 00:35:31,800 about what they've built. And like, literally might. 720 00:35:31,800 --> 00:35:34,760 Sometimes I tear up. It's transformative for them. 721 00:35:34,760 --> 00:35:36,280 It's amazing. And with the idea that they can 722 00:35:36,280 --> 00:35:39,440 be strong advocates for you if. They're and they're just regular 723 00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,560 people too. They're not like tech, you know, 724 00:35:41,600 --> 00:35:43,400 they're not tech Bros saying AI is great. 725 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:44,880 They're like regular people in the world. 726 00:35:45,160 --> 00:35:48,520 So I think that is that is the actual work. 727 00:35:48,520 --> 00:35:51,240 But the thing I think is crucial about it, and this is like a 728 00:35:51,240 --> 00:35:55,000 little abstract or maybe like a little woo woo or whatever. 729 00:35:55,000 --> 00:35:58,200 It's not woo woo. It's a little like trite maybe, 730 00:35:58,200 --> 00:36:01,440 But there is a moment, I mean, we are living in a moment of 731 00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:03,640 significant technological transformation. 732 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:05,840 Like whether you like it or not, we are. 733 00:36:06,120 --> 00:36:12,200 And the one of the biggest risks we face is that some people are 734 00:36:12,200 --> 00:36:14,440 going to capitalize on that and everyone else is going to get 735 00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:16,800 left behind. And I think it is incumbent upon 736 00:36:16,800 --> 00:36:20,400 us just as like people in the world, but also on us at Tech 737 00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:23,600 NYC and wherever that we try and like avoid. 738 00:36:23,600 --> 00:36:26,120 That, and especially in New York City, we win at capitalism, yes. 739 00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,200 We win at capitalism, but we had to bring everyone along with us. 740 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,840 So that, I mean, that's the kind I think we need more decoded 741 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:33,400 futures. We need more work like that. 742 00:36:33,600 --> 00:36:37,280 When people actually, to your point, when people play with AI, 743 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,480 they're like, oh, this is awesome Right now. 744 00:36:39,480 --> 00:36:42,160 People are scared. Like we need to do a better job 745 00:36:42,160 --> 00:36:44,840 of demystifying it, of explaining what it actually is, 746 00:36:44,840 --> 00:36:49,480 how it can fit in to a regular person's life or job right now. 747 00:36:50,000 --> 00:36:51,960 Yeah, And I, I think a lot of, you know, people who are just 748 00:36:51,960 --> 00:36:55,440 using Google search results and getting Gemini answers don't 749 00:36:55,440 --> 00:36:58,440 always appreciate that that is the sort of AI we're talking 750 00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:00,760 about. And also the tech industry is 751 00:37:00,760 --> 00:37:03,840 still turning the technology into like direct applications 752 00:37:03,840 --> 00:37:06,120 where it's like, you can do this thing, you know, right now you 753 00:37:06,120 --> 00:37:09,360 sort of have to be a little more proactive and like motivated to 754 00:37:09,440 --> 00:37:11,960 get some of the value out of. It that's the case for New York, 755 00:37:12,120 --> 00:37:13,560 right? Like the way I think a lot of 756 00:37:13,560 --> 00:37:17,400 these technical cycles go is they build the hard tech in the 757 00:37:17,400 --> 00:37:20,760 Valley and it's kind of like just, you know, a bunch of 758 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:22,920 dudes. It's always dudes. 759 00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,040 I wish there were more women like in, you know, in a group 760 00:37:26,040 --> 00:37:28,160 house. It used to be a garage in Palo 761 00:37:28,160 --> 00:37:30,000 Alto. Now maybe it's like a, a 762 00:37:30,000 --> 00:37:31,960 townhouse in Hayes Valley or whatever. 763 00:37:31,960 --> 00:37:34,320 And they're like tinkering away and they've got this great idea. 764 00:37:34,560 --> 00:37:37,200 But then it comes time to figure out, well, who's going to pay 765 00:37:37,200 --> 00:37:39,200 for it? Who's going to actually use it? 766 00:37:39,360 --> 00:37:40,920 What are they going to use it to do? 767 00:37:40,960 --> 00:37:44,120 And I feel very bullish on New York 'cause I think we will 768 00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:47,360 answer those questions here. Right, build the applications, 769 00:37:47,840 --> 00:37:50,080 understand what the companies. And we don't have those answers 770 00:37:50,080 --> 00:37:50,880 yet. We don't. 771 00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:56,680 The I mean, if you, if you were to give like to go back to the 772 00:37:56,680 --> 00:37:58,800 mayor and where we started the mayor or like one piece of 773 00:37:58,800 --> 00:38:03,960 advice to build like an agenda that it is at once progressive 774 00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,640 and fitting his values and in the tech industry, like what 775 00:38:06,640 --> 00:38:09,800 would the advice be? It would be to dig in and figure 776 00:38:09,800 --> 00:38:12,440 out how to make technology work better in government. 777 00:38:12,440 --> 00:38:14,400 People see that, they understand it. 778 00:38:15,200 --> 00:38:17,840 I think it aligns with his campaign, with his vision for 779 00:38:17,840 --> 00:38:19,720 New York. I think it aligns with his base. 780 00:38:20,000 --> 00:38:22,520 It aligns with the private sector as well. 781 00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:27,120 Like I think that is, I think for every politician, for every 782 00:38:27,160 --> 00:38:29,520 elected official, there's a different answer. 783 00:38:30,160 --> 00:38:32,760 You know, it's how you ran, it's what you ran on, it's what you 784 00:38:32,760 --> 00:38:36,160 believe in. And I think that what it seems 785 00:38:36,160 --> 00:38:39,840 to me the mayor believes in and where technology can be 786 00:38:39,840 --> 00:38:44,640 deployed, it's very clear that it's in the the space of like 787 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:49,760 making government work better. What's, you know, this is more 788 00:38:49,760 --> 00:38:53,520 national, but like, the tech industry in California certainly 789 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:57,480 has cozied up to Trump, like New York. 790 00:38:57,800 --> 00:39:01,160 I mean, we don't necessarily have all the CE OS to do the 791 00:39:01,160 --> 00:39:05,760 cozying, but like what is the tech industry's plan post Trump 792 00:39:05,800 --> 00:39:09,520 or if if if Democrats come back in like I don't I don't know. 793 00:39:09,520 --> 00:39:10,880 I've been thinking a lot about that. 794 00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:13,680 Well, first of all, I think New York will do much better in that 795 00:39:13,720 --> 00:39:15,120 instance because. We and that they have to 796 00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,120 navigate. They saw, well, I mean, in 797 00:39:17,160 --> 00:39:19,600 California, they have a Democratic governor, you know. 798 00:39:19,800 --> 00:39:22,040 You know, there's there's something that I think about a 799 00:39:22,040 --> 00:39:23,600 lot. I think this is true. 800 00:39:23,840 --> 00:39:26,400 Surely in tech, I'm not sure it's specific to tech. 801 00:39:27,680 --> 00:39:30,040 I think tech is just a little bit more immature than some 802 00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:33,880 other industries in that it's newer, you know, not, I don't 803 00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,600 mean to mature in any way other than it's literally younger, but 804 00:39:37,800 --> 00:39:40,040 something that's really interesting about politics is a 805 00:39:40,040 --> 00:39:43,280 lot of times you'll see people who've seen great success in 806 00:39:43,280 --> 00:39:47,560 business assume that they also get politics and it's different 807 00:39:47,840 --> 00:39:50,200 and it's a different skill set. It's a different set of 808 00:39:50,200 --> 00:39:54,280 equities. And I think that, you know, 809 00:39:54,280 --> 00:39:57,880 you've got some people in tech who are like chasing the thing 810 00:39:57,880 --> 00:39:59,480 they think is the right thing. And there's. 811 00:40:00,520 --> 00:40:02,960 They're going to be some hard lessons, like if a Democrat, 812 00:40:02,960 --> 00:40:06,000 depending on which Democrat is in the White House, which I 813 00:40:06,000 --> 00:40:11,400 personally hope is the case in 2028, again, depending on who 814 00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:14,320 that person is, yeah, I think there's going to be some people 815 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:15,240 in tech. We're going to have to pay a 816 00:40:15,240 --> 00:40:21,760 price, right? I think that there is space to 817 00:40:21,760 --> 00:40:24,880 show up at certain events. People understand like that, 818 00:40:24,880 --> 00:40:26,640 whether you like it or not, Donald Trump is the 819 00:40:27,240 --> 00:40:28,680 democratically elected president. 820 00:40:28,680 --> 00:40:31,760 And there are meetings and things that you go to, but then 821 00:40:31,760 --> 00:40:35,440 there are certain things, donations, certain events, 822 00:40:35,480 --> 00:40:37,480 certain vibes that you don't have to go to. 823 00:40:37,480 --> 00:40:40,440 And I think that there are no hard and fast rules. 824 00:40:40,440 --> 00:40:45,200 But I think that Americans who pay attention to these things, 825 00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:48,520 like have a gut sense of where those lines are with the 826 00:40:48,520 --> 00:40:52,200 difference between kind of responsibly running a business 827 00:40:54,680 --> 00:40:57,360 during this administration. Versus without being Marc 828 00:40:57,360 --> 00:41:01,120 Benioff and saying no send. Without, like, fealty. 829 00:41:01,120 --> 00:41:02,320 He's a dear leader. Yeah. 830 00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:06,480 Yeah, I think that. Who do you think in New York is 831 00:41:06,480 --> 00:41:08,760 doing a good job of like representing the tech industry 832 00:41:08,760 --> 00:41:11,640 or who do you see as sort of like the standard bearers here? 833 00:41:13,360 --> 00:41:16,400 That's a very good question. I mean, I think if you look at 834 00:41:16,960 --> 00:41:20,440 technyc.org and look at my board and you get a sense of who I 835 00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:22,280 think that is. You know, like I said, Fred 836 00:41:22,520 --> 00:41:24,960 chaired my board for 10 years. We have our first news is that 837 00:41:24,960 --> 00:41:26,040 Fred Wilson. Fred Wilson. 838 00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:29,840 I'm guessing who's the Yeah, I mean the VC is like loom a 839 00:41:29,840 --> 00:41:31,680 little larger. Yeah, of course we've got 840 00:41:31,680 --> 00:41:34,440 clearly we have thrive, right? Makes a ton of news. 841 00:41:35,880 --> 00:41:38,680 Neil Blumenthal. Someone from Thrive is on your 842 00:41:38,680 --> 00:41:41,080 board or? Yeah, Josh is not on our board, 843 00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,000 but Kelly Sims, a partner that is on your board. 844 00:41:44,000 --> 00:41:46,360 Yeah, I mean, people are really engaged here. 845 00:41:46,360 --> 00:41:49,040 People who live in New York care a lot about the civic 846 00:41:49,880 --> 00:41:52,120 infrastructure. Not just infrastructure, just 847 00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:53,960 like kind of the civic landscape of New York. 848 00:41:53,960 --> 00:41:57,240 NY is a city where people care a lot. 849 00:41:57,240 --> 00:42:00,480 You cannot. It's like kind of logistics in 850 00:42:00,480 --> 00:42:02,720 some ways. You don't get in your car and 851 00:42:02,720 --> 00:42:04,320 drive to work and go to your office. 852 00:42:04,320 --> 00:42:06,560 Like you are constantly among the New Yorkers. 853 00:42:06,560 --> 00:42:10,120 No matter how wealthy you are, no matter how big the business 854 00:42:10,120 --> 00:42:13,080 you run is, it doesn't matter. You are surrounded by New 855 00:42:13,080 --> 00:42:17,680 Yorkers and that creates, I think, a really special dynamic 856 00:42:17,680 --> 00:42:20,040 with the city that makes my work so much more fun. 857 00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:22,640 I mean, that's the beauty of, you know, the subway you feel 858 00:42:22,640 --> 00:42:26,040 and just walk in the streets. You're part of the community in 859 00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:29,360 a way that I think part of what's corroded California is 860 00:42:29,360 --> 00:42:32,120 San Francisco in particular. It's like you can Uber from one 861 00:42:32,120 --> 00:42:35,000 place to the next and be in your little enclave and the next 862 00:42:35,000 --> 00:42:37,720 place and then be like, why is the city letting you know almost 863 00:42:37,720 --> 00:42:39,880 people? It's like the the failures of 864 00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,840 San Francisco corroded text politics, I think, in a way that 865 00:42:43,840 --> 00:42:46,320 New York just hasn't. And it won't, but, and there's 866 00:42:46,320 --> 00:42:50,760 other industries here and there's other things going on 867 00:42:50,760 --> 00:42:52,960 and we talk about tech, but we'll talk about Wall Street. 868 00:42:52,960 --> 00:42:54,280 And like, you know, it's, it's not. 869 00:42:55,120 --> 00:42:57,680 New York benefits from the diversity, not just of people, 870 00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:01,840 but of industry and experience. And I think that's why tech 871 00:43:01,840 --> 00:43:04,480 continues to thrive here. Is competition with China like 872 00:43:04,480 --> 00:43:06,600 animating people or do you think that is? 873 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:08,840 I do think it's animating people. 874 00:43:08,840 --> 00:43:10,960 I think it should animate people. 875 00:43:11,960 --> 00:43:16,200 I think it's it's real. And I think, particularly in 876 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:18,880 this moment, I think to go back to the data centers like, you 877 00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,360 know, are we going to stop building data centers here? 878 00:43:21,360 --> 00:43:23,760 Does do we think that people are just going to stop building data 879 00:43:23,760 --> 00:43:26,320 centers anywhere then like I, I just. 880 00:43:27,240 --> 00:43:28,520 Right. I mean, I do feel like you know 881 00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,440 this dumorism well, it's good to be careful. 882 00:43:31,440 --> 00:43:34,560 I'm very supportive anthropic having the Constitution and 883 00:43:34,560 --> 00:43:37,800 pushing back on the Defense Department or but I think. 884 00:43:38,080 --> 00:43:39,400 It's the Department of War now. No. 885 00:43:39,400 --> 00:43:41,960 Well, the Congress hasn't said it's the Department of War. 886 00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:44,840 It depends where, you know, where you take your cues. 887 00:43:44,840 --> 00:43:47,600 You know, they've put Department of War on the wall, but I don't 888 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:50,480 think, you know, the law has actually been changed. 889 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:55,200 But you know, the steam engine analogy is basically like, if 890 00:43:55,200 --> 00:43:58,720 you have this great technology coming, do you really not want 891 00:43:58,720 --> 00:44:01,480 to lean into something that is going to ultimately improve your 892 00:44:01,480 --> 00:44:03,600 quality of life? And if you don't do it, whether 893 00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,560 it's in Texas or China, it's going to happen somewhere. 894 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:10,360 I get, and I'm bought into some of the like, we need to build AI 895 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,040 in a sort of ethical and intentional way, but we 896 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:16,840 shouldn't let that sort of concern stop us from embracing a 897 00:44:16,880 --> 00:44:19,480 technology that will ultimately make our lives much. 898 00:44:19,480 --> 00:44:24,520 Better, absolutely. I think there's, I just see the, 899 00:44:24,680 --> 00:44:27,640 it's funny, the word progressive doesn't really mean this 900 00:44:27,640 --> 00:44:30,440 anymore, but I think of myself as a progressive person in that 901 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,360 like progress to me means looking at how new technology 902 00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:37,720 can make things better. And that history shows as a 903 00:44:37,720 --> 00:44:42,400 guide that whenever these really disruptive moments happen, there 904 00:44:42,400 --> 00:44:46,080 are always more new jobs on the other side, for instance. 905 00:44:46,160 --> 00:44:49,680 But I don't want to be too Pollyanna ish. 906 00:44:49,680 --> 00:44:53,480 The transition to get to what those new jobs are is messy. 907 00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:55,440 And that's the moment we're living in. 908 00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,760 And we can either, I think, do the hard work of addressing that 909 00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:03,000 head on and having like the real hard conversations about what 910 00:45:03,000 --> 00:45:05,640 that means for New York City, for New York State, for America. 911 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:07,840 What's it going to do to the workforce? 912 00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:12,640 How do we prepare people? Or we can like spend our time 913 00:45:12,640 --> 00:45:16,240 debating banning data centers, which in my mind is actually a 914 00:45:16,240 --> 00:45:20,520 real distraction from the hard work of figuring out what a kind 915 00:45:20,520 --> 00:45:26,080 of not post AI world, but what a world with AI prevalent AI tools 916 00:45:26,080 --> 00:45:28,920 is going to look like and how to make sure that transition works 917 00:45:28,920 --> 00:45:31,800 for as many people as possible like that. 918 00:45:31,800 --> 00:45:34,040 To me, that is the question for our time. 919 00:45:34,800 --> 00:45:36,720 Julie Yeah, we'll have you on a year we see. 920 00:45:37,200 --> 00:45:38,720 All right. Turned out all right. 921 00:45:38,720 --> 00:45:39,960 Thanks. For coming on so much for having 922 00:45:39,960 --> 00:45:42,360 me. That's our episode. 923 00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:45,040 I'm Eric Newcomer. Thank you so much for listening 924 00:45:45,040 --> 00:45:48,400 to the Newcomer podcast. If you're new here, I was a long 925 00:45:48,400 --> 00:45:51,920 time tech reporter at Bloomberg and the Information. 926 00:45:52,200 --> 00:45:54,360 I started a sub stack called Newcomer. 927 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:59,560 It's my last name in 2020 and I've been tirelessly working on 928 00:45:59,560 --> 00:46:02,720 a YouTube channel. I also host the Surreal Valley 929 00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:06,760 AI Summit and have a podcast with my friends Max and James 930 00:46:06,760 --> 00:46:09,720 called the Surreal Valley Show. Here at the Newcomer podcast, 931 00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:12,760 we're trying to get to the heart of what's going on in startups 932 00:46:12,760 --> 00:46:16,800 and venture capital. Sometimes we veer into the 933 00:46:17,280 --> 00:46:20,680 intersection of tech and politics, trying to have honest, 934 00:46:20,680 --> 00:46:23,680 direct conversations, an independent minded show with 935 00:46:23,680 --> 00:46:26,360 someone who knows how to ask hard questions, who likes to 936 00:46:26,360 --> 00:46:28,400 fight a little bit. We're finding our voice. 937 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:31,240 We love your comments. I've stopped saying right, you 938 00:46:31,240 --> 00:46:34,920 know, I'm I'm reading the YouTube comments for good and 939 00:46:34,920 --> 00:46:36,480 bad and we appreciate all your support. 940 00:46:36,800 --> 00:46:39,120 Go harass us on the sub stack too. 941 00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:42,480 You know, newcomer.co, thank you so much for following along. 942 00:46:42,480 --> 00:46:43,880 Please. We really do enjoy your 943 00:46:43,880 --> 00:46:46,080 feedback. Of course, like comments, 944 00:46:46,080 --> 00:46:48,720 subscribe. Excited for what we've got in 945 00:46:48,720 --> 00:46:50,400 store for you this year. Thanks so much. 946 00:46:50,920 --> 00:46:51,640 See you next week.