1 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:15,400 Welcome everybody, Welcome to Dead cat. 2 00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:18,900 This is our newcomer, my co-host Tom do tan is here. 3 00:00:19,100 --> 00:00:21,600 We're going to talk about crypto. 4 00:00:21,700 --> 00:00:26,000 We've got two guests who I will introduce in one second to set 5 00:00:26,000 --> 00:00:28,900 the stakes. Bitcoin is down 60%, this year 6 00:00:28,900 --> 00:00:34,200 aetherium is down. 72% comparisons to the.com bubble 7 00:00:34,200 --> 00:00:37,500 are ubiquitous and like any financial crisis. 8 00:00:37,800 --> 00:00:41,500 You have the central government trying to pick up the pieces but 9 00:00:41,500 --> 00:00:45,200 in this case the central government is seemingly one man, 10 00:00:45,200 --> 00:00:51,100 Sam bank man freed the CEO of crypto exchange FTX you know FDX 11 00:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,900 gave this company block Phi, 250 million dollar credit facility 12 00:00:54,900 --> 00:00:59,800 and is now trying to scoop them up and sort of a fire sale SPF 13 00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:03,700 As he's known kick, the tires on Celsius before walking away, is 14 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:06,900 reportedly looking at Robin Hood, so they're all sorts of 15 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:11,200 roll up plays going on right now to help us understand that we've 16 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,000 got Jeff, John Roberts, the crypto editor of Fortune 17 00:01:14,000 --> 00:01:16,800 Magazine and author of kings of crypto here. 18 00:01:17,100 --> 00:01:20,700 And we've also got returning podcast, guest Teddy, schleifer 19 00:01:20,900 --> 00:01:24,100 or Porter. A puck who is a bit of a SPF 20 00:01:24,100 --> 00:01:26,700 whisper, I think. Yeah, thanks guys. 21 00:01:26,700 --> 00:01:29,200 Thanks both for coming on. Great, to be here. 22 00:01:29,300 --> 00:01:30,700 Thank you. I believe the term was 23 00:01:30,700 --> 00:01:34,100 obsessive. Yes, a Civ, that's a No-No. 24 00:01:34,100 --> 00:01:36,000 That's that's what you were saying. 25 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:39,600 You got to mention obliquely Teddy in a Bloomberg profile 26 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:41,800 about SPF. I believe when they said during 27 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:44,300 his daily routines, he's emailing with reporters from 28 00:01:44,300 --> 00:01:45,600 fortune and that was it. Fortune. 29 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,000 I know. I know Puck was one and I was 30 00:01:48,000 --> 00:01:49,900 like, I don't believe there's anyone else at puc. 31 00:01:49,900 --> 00:01:54,000 That is that was you, right SPF? Right II, do not know. 32 00:01:54,000 --> 00:01:56,500 I mean, he got he also knows my colleague cocoa and a little bit 33 00:01:56,500 --> 00:02:01,300 but but sure this sort of SPF All up, I gave some of the 34 00:02:01,300 --> 00:02:03,900 headlines but what stands out to you here? 35 00:02:03,900 --> 00:02:06,600 What are the key things happening right now and crypto 36 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,300 world? And why is he is he doing this 37 00:02:09,300 --> 00:02:11,700 because it's you know it's a money-making thing or it's a 38 00:02:11,700 --> 00:02:14,600 save the crypto World from collapse sort of strategy or 39 00:02:14,600 --> 00:02:17,200 what's your sense of what's going on here? 40 00:02:17,300 --> 00:02:20,300 Is it all tourism or Capital? Yeah I think he'd probably like 41 00:02:20,300 --> 00:02:22,700 to say it's altruism but I mean I think the end of the day you 42 00:02:22,700 --> 00:02:25,400 know I don't think you do stuff like this out of your heart. 43 00:02:25,400 --> 00:02:28,800 It is in his interest to sort of stop the bleeding and you know, 44 00:02:29,300 --> 00:02:31,800 the question is can any back stop at all with some wondering 45 00:02:31,800 --> 00:02:33,900 because there's, you know, just for back background. 46 00:02:34,100 --> 00:02:36,500 You know, this all started with Tara's collapse and spin this 47 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:39,300 horrible downward spiral with like Celsius, you know, being 48 00:02:39,300 --> 00:02:43,300 exposed as you know, over-leveraged and then you 49 00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:45,600 know, block fives mean trouble. You remember these are like The 50 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:47,000 Darlings. These are some like the, you 51 00:02:47,000 --> 00:02:50,000 know, the blue-chip names of the crypto sector. 52 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,000 So this is not good. Can I just quickly but in for a 53 00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:55,700 definition here so, so Tara that it's collapse. 54 00:02:55,700 --> 00:02:58,900 That was one of the stable coins, which was supposed to be 55 00:02:58,900 --> 00:03:01,900 stable. She clearly was not Celsius was 56 00:03:01,900 --> 00:03:05,400 a crypto lender, right? That was a go park your money, 57 00:03:05,400 --> 00:03:08,500 get 18 percent return, you know, which obviously in a 1% 58 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:11,700 macroeconomic environment was not going to hold up and they 59 00:03:11,700 --> 00:03:15,200 just kind of like overextended themselves and then, you know, 60 00:03:15,200 --> 00:03:17,300 block fi they were slightly more respectful. 61 00:03:17,300 --> 00:03:20,400 You know, borrowing at 8% returns and, you know, they're 62 00:03:20,400 --> 00:03:22,700 just caught, you know, that they put out a lot of positions. 63 00:03:22,700 --> 00:03:25,100 They were interned lending their stuff, but they put a lot of 64 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:28,100 their funds into something called stake to eat, which is 65 00:03:28,100 --> 00:03:31,900 basically like a locked up term. Deposit and locked in a way that 66 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:34,400 you can't call the bank manager. So, you know, there's this 67 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:38,300 massive liquidity crises and you know, people are angry. 68 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,700 You know, this calls for Celsius, Co to go to jail. 69 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:45,300 It's ugly out there but you know, so far SPF to seems to 70 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:48,400 kind of, you know, be able to walk above at all and somehow 71 00:03:48,400 --> 00:03:51,100 stay solvent. So did as we have do anything 72 00:03:51,100 --> 00:03:54,800 with Luna, the Tara Luna collapse or he would, he said 73 00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:56,600 that out. This is another stable coin now. 74 00:03:56,600 --> 00:04:00,500 I think he avoided it, you know. Recall, you know Tara Is the 75 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:03,700 width is, this is idiotic mechanism to, you know, try to 76 00:04:03,700 --> 00:04:05,900 Peg a currency. But just with, it was kind of a 77 00:04:05,900 --> 00:04:08,700 Ponzi scheme backing it up, as long as it's going up at work, 78 00:04:09,000 --> 00:04:12,700 can I ask a question because I'm certainly not an expert in kind 79 00:04:12,700 --> 00:04:15,400 of the mechanics of crypto here. I mean, I mean Jeff, I mean, is 80 00:04:15,400 --> 00:04:18,200 it is there when we say SPF, there's a distinction, right, 81 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,600 between FTX right, and Sam Sam's doing some of the stuff 82 00:04:22,600 --> 00:04:25,100 personally, right? Like the Robin Hood steak, 83 00:04:25,500 --> 00:04:29,400 that's not the corporate come. That's that's like Sam banquet 84 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,200 for you. He has like a small boy is a 85 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:33,800 fun, this doing it right? I'm not totally clear. 86 00:04:33,800 --> 00:04:36,000 There's like Alameda research which I understand to be his 87 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:39,500 fund and there's FTX but I mean he's the majority owner of it so 88 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:42,200 I'm not sure why he's kind of like the hand behind it all 89 00:04:42,200 --> 00:04:43,100 with. That's my question. 90 00:04:43,100 --> 00:04:45,800 But that's you know, better. It's just fascinating that you 91 00:04:45,808 --> 00:04:48,200 can have like, you know, you can have the icon of a leader in 92 00:04:48,200 --> 00:04:51,400 crypto who kind of is able to use their personal balance sheet 93 00:04:51,500 --> 00:04:55,800 to make, you know, investments in other crypto companies or 94 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:56,900 other. I mean, I wonder what the 95 00:04:57,300 --> 00:04:58,800 conflict of interest rules here are. 96 00:04:59,000 --> 00:05:00,600 And it's Unusual. Right? 97 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:04,200 It's not as if like Jeff Bezos. Has personally investing and 98 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,000 various Amazon, the competitors or stings like that. 99 00:05:07,100 --> 00:05:11,800 Well, I'm Bloomberg reported that I think stay Peg spfs well 100 00:05:12,000 --> 00:05:14,700 at like 8 billion right now. I mean, who knows? 101 00:05:14,700 --> 00:05:17,400 Hello. Yeah, I was I'm very curious 102 00:05:17,400 --> 00:05:19,900 obviously with every crypto gazillionaire like how liquid 103 00:05:19,900 --> 00:05:22,100 these people are, right? I mean what is that is that 104 00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:25,100 based on the lacks FTX valuation? 105 00:05:25,100 --> 00:05:29,600 Is that based on, you know, where Sam's money actually is 106 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:32,000 part Worked. I mean, obviously, he's spending 107 00:05:32,000 --> 00:05:34,400 an extraordinary amount on a kind of the things I'm covering 108 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:36,100 politics and philanthropy and stuff like that. 109 00:05:36,100 --> 00:05:39,700 And I've been very curious about how the precipitous fall in his 110 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:42,900 net worth at least in theory would affect these sort of 111 00:05:42,907 --> 00:05:44,600 Ventures. But I don't know. 112 00:05:44,600 --> 00:05:46,100 I mean, I mean it's interesting. You look like a Bloomberg 113 00:05:46,100 --> 00:05:50,000 billionaires index, the how they they have these interesting kind 114 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:53,300 of confidence ratings for how confident they are. 115 00:05:53,700 --> 00:05:56,700 Or you may remember these from from being there just about like 116 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,600 how confident someone is and you know what Jeff Jesus is worth, 117 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,100 what you on musk is worth and the crypto people. 118 00:06:03,100 --> 00:06:05,900 I thought the confidence ratings are always all over the place, 119 00:06:05,900 --> 00:06:08,100 right? They have a 2 Star on this on 120 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:09,400 Sandy's. Yeah? 121 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:10,600 What. A great system. 122 00:06:10,600 --> 00:06:12,200 I didn't realize they did that. I should do that. 123 00:06:12,200 --> 00:06:12,700 Yeah. Wow. 124 00:06:12,700 --> 00:06:13,700 That's good. It's good. 125 00:06:13,900 --> 00:06:15,500 Ratings are much better. I think its new. 126 00:06:15,500 --> 00:06:17,900 I think that relatively neat smart. 127 00:06:17,900 --> 00:06:19,300 I mean, this is gonna go off on a tangent. 128 00:06:19,300 --> 00:06:22,100 I don't think we should go down but just for our listeners out 129 00:06:22,100 --> 00:06:27,100 there, billionaire, wealth assessment, if it's not based on 130 00:06:27,200 --> 00:06:31,000 majority public company owned is, A huge amount of bullshit 131 00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,500 and and people sort of like that people really should know that 132 00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:38,000 like the the Peter teal Network calculation like definitely had 133 00:06:38,000 --> 00:06:41,200 to be adjusted by when like the tax returns came out that showed 134 00:06:41,200 --> 00:06:45,100 about his Roth IRA which I don't think was a class anywhere. 135 00:06:45,300 --> 00:06:48,300 Accounted for I generally assumed that like like I think 136 00:06:48,300 --> 00:06:50,500 Jeff Bezos is probably worth around whatever they have met 137 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:52,900 two hundred billion dollars. It's based on a stake in Amazon 138 00:06:52,900 --> 00:06:56,200 and that's publicly disclosed like I'm sure it's ballpark 139 00:06:56,200 --> 00:06:58,300 right? But lots of other people I would 140 00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:01,200 not be surprised if You really know how much John doar is 141 00:07:01,200 --> 00:07:03,100 really worth. Like I mean it depends on how 142 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:05,700 right we'll do a whole separate episode on because I have a lot 143 00:07:05,700 --> 00:07:08,400 of thoughts but yeah but going back to the SPF for sex is 144 00:07:08,400 --> 00:07:10,200 Judith. The Shred kryptos, even more of 145 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,500 a black box because you know we know how much a rough idea of 146 00:07:13,500 --> 00:07:17,600 how much trading profits FTX the platform might have, but how 147 00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:22,400 much that goes into spfs pocket then also in case of crypto and 148 00:07:22,400 --> 00:07:26,100 treasury management, it's like one day he's like has x amount 149 00:07:26,100 --> 00:07:29,400 of theorem and Bitcoin which was at 16 you know, 67,000 outs to 150 00:07:29,400 --> 00:07:31,900 20. Seven how like, you know, did 151 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:34,900 he, how much that did he sell? And maybe flip into stable coins 152 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:37,100 or even dollars and when did he do it? 153 00:07:37,100 --> 00:07:39,900 And that's just totally opaque. Like, we know like Amazon. 154 00:07:39,900 --> 00:07:41,600 Shares, your down. Bezos Is wealth. 155 00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:43,900 Gonna go down and we have a rough idea how much? 156 00:07:43,900 --> 00:07:47,100 But, you know any we know when he sells them but in the case of 157 00:07:47,100 --> 00:07:49,100 like the crypto camera is seeing the file. 158 00:07:49,100 --> 00:07:51,500 If you sell tablet company, right? 159 00:07:51,600 --> 00:07:55,100 But you don't if you own a crypto and for a luminary like 160 00:07:55,100 --> 00:07:58,400 SPF for him to sell, you know, a significant stake in any 161 00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:01,200 cryptocurrency is We're going to have an effect on the market 162 00:08:01,200 --> 00:08:03,700 because it would show some sort of lack of confidence in it so 163 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:07,200 it's extremely relevant and important to know how often and 164 00:08:07,200 --> 00:08:09,900 at what level he's holding any of these coins, right? 165 00:08:09,900 --> 00:08:11,200 Yeah. Well I mean, this current, you 166 00:08:11,200 --> 00:08:13,700 know, catastrophe is bringing as always calls for more 167 00:08:13,700 --> 00:08:16,400 transparency to like, what the hell's under the hood, how 168 00:08:16,400 --> 00:08:19,100 leveraged are these companies? And you know, I'm just hoping 169 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:22,200 the next crypto growth cycle, they'll be new rules in place 170 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:25,000 your best practices because now it's just like, you know, 171 00:08:25,000 --> 00:08:28,000 cowboys and black boxes and who knows what's going on. 172 00:08:28,300 --> 00:08:31,700 So, I want to Circle back to the This idea of Sam Venkman freed 173 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:36,000 as kind of the de facto, whatever backstop or almost FDIC 174 00:08:36,400 --> 00:08:40,000 of the you have the exchange world and maybe broader crypto 175 00:08:40,000 --> 00:08:41,600 world. You know, we kind of asked this 176 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:44,300 question of is it altruism or is it, you know, him just kind of 177 00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:47,300 swooping in for what could be Savvy Investments or 178 00:08:47,300 --> 00:08:49,600 Acquisitions? I mean, what have you seen so 179 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,300 far in these moves? Let's dive into the block, find 180 00:08:52,300 --> 00:08:54,400 one because that one is fairly controversial. 181 00:08:54,500 --> 00:08:56,300 What do you see? As you know, the state of 182 00:08:56,300 --> 00:09:00,600 affairs with block Phi and you know, FTX is And bank and free. 183 00:09:00,600 --> 00:09:03,400 Its decision to want to acquire this thing for Solace. 184 00:09:03,400 --> 00:09:05,700 That 250 Dollar Loan, which factors into it? 185 00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:09,100 Somehow. I assume that's secured by by 186 00:09:09,100 --> 00:09:12,100 block flies. You know, non liquid assets, but 187 00:09:12,100 --> 00:09:14,600 in terms of the matter Meadow stretchy, what he's up to, I 188 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,200 mean, yeah, obviously this could help stabilize the current 189 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,100 chaotic conditions, but, you know, I would so interesting to 190 00:09:20,108 --> 00:09:21,000 me. I'd love to know Teddy's 191 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:24,300 thoughts on this is, of course, my expertise is coinbase. 192 00:09:24,300 --> 00:09:27,000 Who's just basically dominated the crypto Market since day one, 193 00:09:27,000 --> 00:09:28,900 and the u.s. coin basis in trouble. 194 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:30,600 I mean, I don't think they're going Bankrupt or anything, but 195 00:09:30,600 --> 00:09:33,600 they're certainly not acquiring anything, they're cutting staff. 196 00:09:33,700 --> 00:09:36,100 And what am I theory for? What ft, a car. 197 00:09:36,100 --> 00:09:39,100 What Sam is up to is, especially with Robin Hood. 198 00:09:39,100 --> 00:09:40,900 Look at all those cool, you know, customer lists you could 199 00:09:40,900 --> 00:09:44,300 acquire on the cheap and Robin Hood to gives them a path to, 200 00:09:44,300 --> 00:09:47,000 you know, selling a crease on the blockchain and did it with 201 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,900 like Celsius and block fire. I mean, what a great way to 202 00:09:49,900 --> 00:09:52,700 acquire a whole bunch of customer accounts once things 203 00:09:52,700 --> 00:09:54,800 stabilize. And then I think, you know, he 204 00:09:54,800 --> 00:09:57,900 could be the new Top Dog in crypto in the US. 205 00:09:58,100 --> 00:09:59,700 I mean, I mean, you could see he's made us. 206 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:02,500 Or Sean like Global derivatives trading, but, you know, I think 207 00:10:02,500 --> 00:10:06,500 there's a big play for, you know, retail, you know, retail 208 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:09,700 participants in the US market and what a good cheap way to 209 00:10:09,700 --> 00:10:12,000 acquire like millions. Millions of customers on the 210 00:10:12,000 --> 00:10:14,100 cheap. That's, that's one Theory I 211 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:15,900 have, but I think Teddy Long's bettered me. 212 00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:17,000 So I'd love to know your thoughts. 213 00:10:17,500 --> 00:10:18,800 Yeah. It is, it fair to think? 214 00:10:18,800 --> 00:10:22,100 I mean, you think of to post a question back to you, Ma'am, did 215 00:10:22,100 --> 00:10:24,700 you think of FTX is like a coin based competitor? 216 00:10:25,300 --> 00:10:28,700 Like knows exactly what I was gonna like FDX, coinbase 217 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,000 Finance. And I don't wanna put you on the 218 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:31,900 spot. But yeah. 219 00:10:32,200 --> 00:10:35,700 How much do those companies all overlap and there are services. 220 00:10:36,100 --> 00:10:40,000 But the big difference is coin basis in reality the only big 221 00:10:40,000 --> 00:10:43,000 retail player in the u.s. Robin Hood tried and they have 222 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:45,300 some luck, you know what, their Dogecoin run but then they're a 223 00:10:45,300 --> 00:10:49,000 basket case now, but I don't think it's a coincidence that 224 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:53,300 FTX is putting their logo on every umpire major-league 225 00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,200 baseball. You know, I mean and you know, 226 00:10:55,300 --> 00:10:58,400 Sam is not a fool. I think the long-term game is to 227 00:10:58,400 --> 00:11:02,200 muscle into the US Market by now, it's never going to happen. 228 00:11:02,200 --> 00:11:04,800 Like, you know, the reporting of like blindness us which is like 229 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:08,600 basically a potemkin village to like blow smoke up the regulars 230 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:12,700 ass and like they're Radioactive from a regulatory point of view. 231 00:11:13,300 --> 00:11:16,600 Whereas amazingly SPF is also kept very clean nose throughout 232 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:18,600 all this. Like, even Maxine Waters likes 233 00:11:18,600 --> 00:11:20,400 him. So, you know, I just think he's 234 00:11:20,400 --> 00:11:23,200 very poised to be the first major Challenger to coinbase the 235 00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:26,700 u.s. to you. You see, you see basically 236 00:11:26,700 --> 00:11:30,900 buying these distressed assets as Art of hey like it's a way to 237 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:34,100 bye-bye customer growth, right. You know that these are people 238 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:37,900 who you know alternate alternate universe might buy and it might 239 00:11:37,900 --> 00:11:42,700 have my trade you know Bitcoin through coinbase and now they're 240 00:11:42,700 --> 00:11:45,100 in the FTX funnel and then boom. Yeah. 241 00:11:45,100 --> 00:11:46,600 Or whatever you want to do with them. 242 00:11:46,600 --> 00:11:49,100 I mean you get the strip customer lists and if indeed 243 00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:51,300 long-term, you know, all of us are going to be like, you know, 244 00:11:51,300 --> 00:11:53,900 staking and you know, equities are going to be moving on to 245 00:11:53,900 --> 00:11:56,300 blockchain and stuff like that. If you're playing the long game, 246 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,600 you know I think it's I think it's a very smart idea. 247 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:02,700 If he has a capital to do it and this is hardly unique to crypto 248 00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:05,600 to whenever there's you know, massive distress the industry. 249 00:12:05,600 --> 00:12:08,600 If the top players got the capital in the pockets to go, 250 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:10,500 pick up the pieces and incorporate them into the 251 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:12,100 Empire. I mean you know that's what Big 252 00:12:12,100 --> 00:12:14,000 Tex is done for years. You know, I don't think it's 253 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,800 purely to you know, to to stabilize the industry. 254 00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:19,500 I think he's got a long term vision and we're starting to 255 00:12:19,500 --> 00:12:22,800 seem execute on it. How do you kind of countenance, 256 00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:27,900 Teddy spfs, political donations and his being one of the most 257 00:12:27,900 --> 00:12:31,900 active billionaires? He's in Democratic politics with 258 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:36,300 his you know business interests. I mean Jeff was mentioning that 259 00:12:36,300 --> 00:12:38,500 Maxine Waters seems to be a big fan of his. 260 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:40,100 I don't know. That's the first I've heard of 261 00:12:40,108 --> 00:12:43,000 that although it makes sense. Has he donated specifically to 262 00:12:43,000 --> 00:12:47,700 like the D Triple C or I mean? Do you see this as like a very 263 00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:52,600 Savvy move on his part to shore up good relations with you know 264 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:54,500 what might be a more sympathetic party. 265 00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:57,900 Sam is doing lots of things in politics, that aren't 266 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:01,100 necessarily. All interrelated. 267 00:13:01,200 --> 00:13:05,300 So I mean, you two buckets, there's like the straight up 268 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:08,300 crypto work. That Sam is doing which I think, 269 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:12,500 you know, you can be as cynical as you want about his desire to 270 00:13:12,500 --> 00:13:18,000 capture the regulators and politicians who may have an 271 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,100 interest in regulating crypto. I mean it's a Sam, you know it 272 00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:26,200 has donated a couple million bucks to a crypto Super PAC that 273 00:13:26,200 --> 00:13:28,500 is also been backed by increase in Horowitz. 274 00:13:28,500 --> 00:13:33,400 It's called I as in GM, as in the, you know, crypto speak the 275 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:35,400 good morning Institute basically. 276 00:13:35,600 --> 00:13:37,900 So Sam and I mean that that's not any different than like you 277 00:13:37,900 --> 00:13:41,600 know your standard you know, Facebook CEO or not Facebook but 278 00:13:41,600 --> 00:13:46,500 like you know just big Tech leader you know tries to often. 279 00:13:46,500 --> 00:13:50,000 It's the re top and playable on mostly donating to you know the 280 00:13:50,000 --> 00:13:52,500 the committee's that regulate Tesla right stuff like that. 281 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:56,000 And Sam is you know spending a lot of time as Jeff is kind of 282 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,200 knows is spending a lot of time in Washington. 283 00:13:59,300 --> 00:14:04,700 Washington trying to, you know, get crypto Regulators to, you 284 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:07,500 know, have a light touch. He's called for more crypto 285 00:14:07,500 --> 00:14:10,600 regulation. He's testified a bunch of times 286 00:14:10,600 --> 00:14:13,100 before Congress. Like that's the standard, you 287 00:14:13,108 --> 00:14:17,400 know, CEO of a big company basic Washington lobbying that's 288 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:20,500 bucket. One bucket to, which I think, 289 00:14:20,500 --> 00:14:23,700 Sam critics don't really believe is a separate. 290 00:14:23,700 --> 00:14:28,300 Bucket is efforts that Sam is taking to basically promote 291 00:14:28,800 --> 00:14:32,400 effective. Altruism or the belief that sort 292 00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:35,400 of a dumb it to dumb it down, simplify it basically. 293 00:14:35,400 --> 00:14:39,300 Utilitarianism that there should be more money spent on 294 00:14:39,300 --> 00:14:42,600 preventing things that cause harm to mass numbers of people, 295 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:48,100 such as nuclear disasters. Future pandemics the killing of 296 00:14:48,100 --> 00:14:52,500 animals effective altruism is very in Vogue among the Silicon 297 00:14:52,500 --> 00:14:57,000 Valley set and Sam who you know, as we know is only 30 years old 298 00:14:57,000 --> 00:14:59,200 and you know this company is still private Sam. 299 00:14:59,300 --> 00:15:01,700 Spending tens of millions of dollars. 300 00:15:02,000 --> 00:15:04,700 If not hundreds of millions of dollars on affected altruist 301 00:15:04,700 --> 00:15:09,500 causes in part through politics. Sam is now is funding write up a 302 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:12,400 ballot measure in California. He spent 12 million dollars on a 303 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:16,000 house primary race for this gotten Carrick Flynn and Oregon 304 00:15:16,300 --> 00:15:18,400 lost. I like 30 points pretty big 305 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:19,900 disaster. Well, yeah, I know effective 306 00:15:19,900 --> 00:15:24,100 altruism is actually very smart PR framing because you're like, 307 00:15:24,100 --> 00:15:27,800 well, I failed but it was a long shot and if you do the math, the 308 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:29,800 return on the investment was Eight. 309 00:15:29,800 --> 00:15:34,000 So smart in a modeled version of reality, but not based on sort 310 00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:35,900 of political conventional wisdom. 311 00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:38,100 Which honestly right. Good. 312 00:15:38,200 --> 00:15:42,700 Good on you to escape the framing of political reporters 313 00:15:42,700 --> 00:15:45,800 and how they try to trap people to only betting on things that 314 00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:47,200 can be successes. Yes. 315 00:15:47,700 --> 00:15:49,500 But those are, those are those sort of to those are two 316 00:15:49,500 --> 00:15:51,400 buckets, right? I mean, there's the there's I 317 00:15:51,408 --> 00:15:54,200 mean, and, and there's the the work he's doing on crypto, which 318 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,600 is more straightforward and there's the work he's doing, 319 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,000 like in his personal capacity that is not as the Ft ex-ceo 320 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:03,900 just as someone who has a lot of money and thinks a lot about 321 00:16:04,700 --> 00:16:08,800 ways to make an impact in the world and like now to the 322 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:12,200 recipients or to Washington at large, is it so easy to separate 323 00:16:12,200 --> 00:16:15,600 those two things like at the end of the day, you know, keeping 324 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:20,000 Sam on your good side, whether that's through supporting kind 325 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,700 of pandemic prevention, or whether it's supporting, you 326 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:25,300 know, a light regulation. On crypto like Sam is clearly an 327 00:16:25,300 --> 00:16:28,100 important person, right? And there's nothing Democrats 328 00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:30,300 want more than this sort of. True Believer. 329 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,500 You know, that's like, oh, I'm I have a bunch of Crusades to put 330 00:16:33,500 --> 00:16:36,900 me on your team because I really believe it, which is going to 331 00:16:36,908 --> 00:16:41,300 get much more affection that. I mean in a way that you know, 332 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:45,900 Ilan represent sort of behaving like the actual sort of trump 333 00:16:45,900 --> 00:16:49,800 style Republicans in a way that draws their attention SBF. 334 00:16:50,400 --> 00:16:54,200 I think behaves like Democrats would actually like sort of a 335 00:16:54,208 --> 00:16:56,500 democratic billionaire to do it. It's like I have these strong 336 00:16:56,500 --> 00:16:59,400 principles. I have my little Crusades and I 337 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:02,600 believe in policy like he seems like he's an institutionalist, 338 00:17:02,700 --> 00:17:05,800 which is very interesting coming from the crypto world, right? 339 00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,599 I mean, how does he fit into the broader libertarian crypto 340 00:17:09,599 --> 00:17:13,099 mindset of believing that this is part of a movement? 341 00:17:13,099 --> 00:17:14,599 That's going to burn it all down. 342 00:17:14,800 --> 00:17:18,500 And take the institutions that have, you know, withheld capital 343 00:17:18,500 --> 00:17:21,000 from the people who deserve it and all of the kind of 344 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,700 anti-establishment leanings that these guys have, you know, one 345 00:17:24,700 --> 00:17:27,599 of the richest most prominent people seems to be like buddies 346 00:17:27,599 --> 00:17:30,500 with Maxine Waters and Needing to house races. 347 00:17:30,800 --> 00:17:33,000 I mean it's useless to say that you said I just because he's 348 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,500 engaging in pot like engaging them, frankly. 349 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:37,600 Yes, yeah. And partisan politics to. 350 00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:39,900 Yeah, I'm Phantom in for a sec though. 351 00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:42,700 I just think the thing we have to know about Sam, which makes 352 00:17:42,700 --> 00:17:45,200 it so different from the other. Crypto Founders is parents. 353 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,900 His pedigree is Mom's the Stanford law professor. 354 00:17:47,900 --> 00:17:51,100 Who I've heard Works closely with a group called mind the 355 00:17:51,100 --> 00:17:54,000 gap, which is to serve about, kind of like fundraising 356 00:17:54,100 --> 00:17:56,700 operation for the Democratic party and his father. 357 00:17:56,700 --> 00:18:00,500 Reportedly like, advises Lisbeth warrant So, you know, he's out 358 00:18:00,500 --> 00:18:03,300 of kind of that milieu, which is very different than the others 359 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:05,500 and that's also too. I think adding to his white 360 00:18:05,500 --> 00:18:08,800 knight ability because the other, you know, crypto Founders 361 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:11,700 are really alienating people. CZ is like, you know, got sort 362 00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:13,800 of like eggs. A lot of people are Whispering. 363 00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:16,300 It's a criminal operation. I'm not saying that's true. 364 00:18:16,800 --> 00:18:20,200 And then like he got the CEO of cracking, Jesse Powell other 365 00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:23,500 tweeting, like stuff about, you know, abortion and like, young 366 00:18:23,500 --> 00:18:26,900 people accusing him of flirting with like Neo Nazism, and then 367 00:18:26,900 --> 00:18:30,400 Brian Armstrong, you'll like it. Get out of my Pretty much. 368 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:32,700 Yeah. And then Brian Armstrong who is 369 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:35,700 like, you know, forever, like picking culture war fights with 370 00:18:35,700 --> 00:18:38,100 the New York Times. And it's the coin was see ya. 371 00:18:38,100 --> 00:18:41,300 Whether he's right or not. I mean, it's just like, it's not 372 00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:43,500 going to help the initial Sakai help your company. 373 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:45,300 You know, the New York Times, is not going to stop doing what 374 00:18:45,300 --> 00:18:47,500 they do. You know, might be frustrating 375 00:18:47,500 --> 00:18:50,400 to you, but he just seems to kind of like keep walking into 376 00:18:50,400 --> 00:18:53,400 these, like political hand. Grenades be a black lives matter 377 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:57,100 or what, you know, whatever it is and whereas SPF is done a 378 00:18:57,108 --> 00:19:00,400 very good job of you know, step Pat staying above that. 379 00:19:00,400 --> 00:19:03,400 However I'll turn it back over to you guys but what I'm curious 380 00:19:03,400 --> 00:19:06,500 about is come November when the Republicans are almost certainly 381 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:10,200 going to take Congress again and you know, do they really want 382 00:19:10,200 --> 00:19:12,000 Joe Biden's? Biggest you know because and the 383 00:19:12,008 --> 00:19:14,300 Republicans are more friendly to crypto right now you know 384 00:19:14,300 --> 00:19:18,100 libertarianism blah blah blah. What happens when the most 385 00:19:18,100 --> 00:19:20,400 prominent guy in cryptos, Joe Biden's, biggest donor. 386 00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,600 Is he going to be the biggest, do we know that is, was last 387 00:19:23,600 --> 00:19:25,100 time around? I believe that, I mean, tension 388 00:19:25,100 --> 00:19:30,400 on that but I, he lost he was, he's the biggest like, CEO. 389 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,700 There's a bunch of qualifications up and I mean but 390 00:19:32,700 --> 00:19:34,500 he's way up there. Yeah, yeah, sure. 391 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:37,700 I mean like you know I know Eric has made fun of me privately for 392 00:19:37,700 --> 00:19:41,000 like being this is an obsessive. I mean, the reality is he's 393 00:19:41,000 --> 00:19:43,100 like, you know, I think at this point he's probably the second 394 00:19:43,100 --> 00:19:45,100 or third biggest donor in the midterms right now. 395 00:19:45,100 --> 00:19:46,600 I mean like he's up, he's up there with Peter. 396 00:19:46,600 --> 00:19:48,900 Thiel's like people are obsessed with Peter teal'c spirituals 397 00:19:48,900 --> 00:19:50,800 important. Like Sam is spending a 398 00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,400 tremendous amount of money like it's this is not people call 399 00:19:53,400 --> 00:19:56,700 obsessing over like a five hundred thousand dollar a year 400 00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:59,100 donor like Sam is now in the 20th 39. 401 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:00,900 Dollar range. And if you include is lobbying 402 00:20:00,900 --> 00:20:05,100 efforts, like he's up, he's up there and part of this is that 403 00:20:05,400 --> 00:20:07,000 like, he's just genuinely interesting. 404 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,900 Like what he's funding is stuff. That is, you know, 405 00:20:10,000 --> 00:20:12,600 unconventional off the walls. Like he obviously. 406 00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,000 I think part of the obsession with him, say, part of it is 407 00:20:16,008 --> 00:20:17,900 exam. As like, cultivated this image, 408 00:20:17,900 --> 00:20:19,300 that Jeff is kind of referring to, right? 409 00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:20,800 Where he wear shorts all the time. 410 00:20:20,900 --> 00:20:23,900 His hair is kind of crazy. He obviously is like, very 411 00:20:23,900 --> 00:20:28,100 media-friendly right in a way that like kids, like it's like 412 00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:30,700 Pete Buddha judge, like you Lots of coverage because like, he 413 00:20:30,708 --> 00:20:32,400 engages with reporters a lot, right? 414 00:20:32,400 --> 00:20:36,200 And like, and, you know, I see him like, take interviews 415 00:20:36,400 --> 00:20:39,200 interviews, from like random fucking newsletters, right? 416 00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,100 And like, there was some story, I remember the time is, did 417 00:20:42,500 --> 00:20:46,300 about like, the billionaire is taxed proposal and like Sam, 418 00:20:46,300 --> 00:20:48,600 like, it was very willing to be like the spokesman for 419 00:20:48,600 --> 00:20:50,500 billionaires. I was like, he's very much. 420 00:20:50,500 --> 00:20:53,500 He's very much clearly enamored with the media and like, you 421 00:20:53,500 --> 00:20:56,000 know, he's young and maybe he'll get tired of it when he liked 422 00:20:56,300 --> 00:20:59,100 suffers, its first hit piece or something like that, but like 423 00:20:59,200 --> 00:21:04,000 Like part part of it is Sam cultivating an image, but part 424 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:08,200 of it, I think is genuine and the fact that he is a massively 425 00:21:08,200 --> 00:21:11,800 significant donor with, you know, obviously very substantive 426 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:16,700 and issues before Congress and is like, I think part of it is 427 00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:20,400 him leaning into it and making it like, you know, having fun as 428 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,100 like a political media mocker and part of it is just like the 429 00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:26,600 fact that he's actually doing real shit. 430 00:21:26,600 --> 00:21:29,000 When lot mostly people, most people aren't right to be clear. 431 00:21:29,700 --> 00:21:32,800 Most people are not actually that interesting but to Jeff's 432 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:37,100 question, I mean, he's also built up this, you know, public 433 00:21:37,100 --> 00:21:41,100 Persona and media presence during mostly during Biden's 434 00:21:41,100 --> 00:21:43,600 presidency where he is sort of been on the side of power. 435 00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:46,200 And so what does the world look like 44? 436 00:21:46,800 --> 00:21:50,500 SBF, when, you know, Biden is on his back foot and he's suddenly 437 00:21:50,500 --> 00:21:52,400 getting, you know, even the Republic, right? 438 00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:54,300 It's the specifics of Jeff question. 439 00:21:54,300 --> 00:21:56,200 I mean, what do you see happening post? 440 00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:59,400 Midterms sure. I mean, look, I mean he is he's 441 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:04,800 not actually that. Like he is a, a center-left, you 442 00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:08,400 know, politician. I mean, he is donated to try to 443 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:10,500 set it up, Jonah. I mean, he's donated to 444 00:22:10,800 --> 00:22:14,500 Democrats, but, you know, he, I don't think he's that liberal 445 00:22:14,500 --> 00:22:17,500 conventionally and yeah, I mean, to be true to be fair. 446 00:22:17,500 --> 00:22:21,000 Like that's true of every, every kind of donor right now or every 447 00:22:21,000 --> 00:22:23,900 corporate leader, who's kind of made inroads during the Byron 448 00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:27,900 FTX coinbase by. And these these companies 449 00:22:27,900 --> 00:22:31,000 interests are like, fairly aligned in the deregulation. 450 00:22:31,000 --> 00:22:36,000 So, Seems smart to me that you would have you have True 451 00:22:36,000 --> 00:22:38,900 Believer, like Democrats, and then you have sort of coinbase 452 00:22:38,900 --> 00:22:42,400 or Brian's meeting posting pictures with, you know, Paul 453 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:44,700 Ryan. And then you have sort of even 454 00:22:44,700 --> 00:22:48,800 sort of more, right people and Kraken and like having that sort 455 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:50,900 of as an industry. I'm not saying they all got 456 00:22:50,900 --> 00:22:53,000 together and sort of assign their roles. 457 00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:58,100 It's almost better that they all play sort of a cheerleader for 458 00:22:58,100 --> 00:23:02,000 each side so that they have friends then If they all sort of 459 00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:04,900 half-cocked it is that right? By the way, I post Lots about 460 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,200 Jeff and Teddy, I mean that they, you know, the three 461 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:10,300 exchanges are necessarily anti-regulation, because it 462 00:23:10,300 --> 00:23:13,600 would seem like with the market and environment as it is right 463 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:17,400 now, there's got to be some sort of a push for an FDIC like 464 00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:19,200 organizations. Like, you know, Facebook is 465 00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,200 always like, you know, we support modern internet 466 00:23:21,200 --> 00:23:23,500 regulations, right? I've been part of, this is like 467 00:23:23,700 --> 00:23:26,700 any company you get entrenched like that and regulations, 468 00:23:26,700 --> 00:23:27,300 right? Sure. 469 00:23:27,300 --> 00:23:29,300 For the biggest players, right? Right, right. 470 00:23:29,300 --> 00:23:30,200 It's all being like, I don't know. 471 00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:31,200 There's like an element of bullshit. 472 00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,000 That like everyone you know Belize. 473 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:35,200 I mean I mean the the key thing happened at regulation level 474 00:23:35,200 --> 00:23:39,000 right now is there's a spill from Cynthia lummis and Kirsten 475 00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:43,300 gillibrand to try to basically have lots of crypto regulated by 476 00:23:43,300 --> 00:23:48,600 the cftc rather than by the SEC. The small weak regulator rather 477 00:23:48,600 --> 00:23:51,300 than the song regulator and we're obviously over 478 00:23:51,300 --> 00:23:54,800 generalizing here but like generally, the crypto industry 479 00:23:54,800 --> 00:23:59,100 is, you know, in favor of the bill and, you know, and is that 480 00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:03,300 because Tom dancer question is that Has like they are pro 481 00:24:03,300 --> 00:24:06,400 regulation or anti-regulation. Like I think obviously they sort 482 00:24:06,400 --> 00:24:09,100 of know that there's going to be some regulation of this industry 483 00:24:09,400 --> 00:24:14,100 and you might as well you know, handicap it or kneecap it from 484 00:24:14,100 --> 00:24:17,100 from the start, right? But be fair like, in that 485 00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:20,100 regulatory climate, like the chairman of the SEC, Gary 486 00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,500 Gensler is implacably, and my opinion stupidly hostile to 487 00:24:23,500 --> 00:24:25,700 crypto. He's tried to seize on an issue 488 00:24:25,900 --> 00:24:29,100 to ingratiate himself with a very powerful Democrat, namely 489 00:24:29,100 --> 00:24:31,200 Lisbeth Warren and so he has been too. 490 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,700 Ferociously attacking and it all turns and not being remotely 491 00:24:35,700 --> 00:24:38,200 constructive, you know, I mean, obviously, you know it needs 492 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:41,500 some regulation but you know on the rumors of him aspiring to be 493 00:24:41,500 --> 00:24:43,500 triggered. Treasury secretary are true, 494 00:24:43,500 --> 00:24:46,500 talk about Gensler here, so he's willing to throw the crypto 495 00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:48,800 industry under the boss to advance his own career. 496 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,000 And in that climate, I understand where the crypto 497 00:24:51,000 --> 00:24:53,900 industry is like, you know, understandably frustrated and 498 00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:55,600 pissed off, but, you know, yeah, of course. 499 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:57,200 You're right. They're simply trying to get the 500 00:24:57,200 --> 00:25:00,600 regulation that's best for them and get big and then game the 501 00:25:00,600 --> 00:25:02,700 regulatory. Structure to favor themselves 502 00:25:02,700 --> 00:25:05,000 and send comments that says every industry does. 503 00:25:05,000 --> 00:25:08,400 But crypto is that a bit of a special juncture given that you 504 00:25:08,408 --> 00:25:11,600 know, the the implacable hostility the SEC and clearly 505 00:25:11,600 --> 00:25:17,100 more Pro regulation than you. I think, I mean, I guess I'm 506 00:25:17,100 --> 00:25:20,200 very cynical the SEC because it's like much easier to crack 507 00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:25,400 down after everything collapses. It's like he hasn't done that 508 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:27,900 much, right? I mean, maybe now that 509 00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:30,000 everybody's lost money is going to make everybody's life 510 00:25:30,000 --> 00:25:34,100 miserable. Yeah, seems unfair that Eric's 511 00:25:34,100 --> 00:25:35,300 favorite. This is Eric's. 512 00:25:35,300 --> 00:25:37,700 Favorite arguing on the show, your favorite anti-regulation 513 00:25:37,700 --> 00:25:42,300 are you just at the SEC acts that they act after bad things 514 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:43,800 happen? Government only comes in on the 515 00:25:43,808 --> 00:25:46,500 way down? It's like, oh yeah, I guess it 516 00:25:46,500 --> 00:25:48,200 was bad. People lost money. 517 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:51,500 It's like weren't you supposed to enforce rules so that people 518 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:54,500 didn't lose money in the first place rather than just say 519 00:25:54,700 --> 00:25:58,500 pointing to the money-losing and say nah, they're the bad guys. 520 00:25:58,500 --> 00:26:01,100 I mean that drives me crazy. Now what he could have done it 521 00:26:01,300 --> 00:26:03,600 Has given sir a roadmap for. What do you do you know the 522 00:26:03,600 --> 00:26:05,500 industry complaints? Think rightly that he's saying 523 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,300 regulation enforcement he's like well does follow the rules which 524 00:26:08,300 --> 00:26:10,700 are extremely vague and have them are you articulate since 525 00:26:10,700 --> 00:26:13,500 2014 and if you guess wrong we're going to sue you you know 526 00:26:13,500 --> 00:26:16,300 and that's I think frustrating and then I think coinbase tried 527 00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:20,700 to offer very modest like 4% like you know interest earning 528 00:26:20,700 --> 00:26:23,200 thing on stable coins. It's a very like unambitious 529 00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,700 thing and, you know, freaked out said like no no. 530 00:26:25,700 --> 00:26:28,800 Well while the while or whatever crazy stuff is like popping out 531 00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,900 all around him and like he totally missed the Stable coin 532 00:26:31,900 --> 00:26:34,700 collapse. So to seems he's out to you know 533 00:26:34,700 --> 00:26:37,700 kind of stimuli everything without providing a constructive 534 00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:41,600 roadmap forward because he's just you know, in my opinion 535 00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,300 venal an entirely a moral ambitious person. 536 00:26:45,600 --> 00:26:47,500 Yeah. I mean it's classic that the, 537 00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:51,200 you know, big is sort of company, you know, it coinbase, 538 00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,900 big public company that wants to be in good favor of The 539 00:26:53,900 --> 00:26:58,700 Regulators ends up being the one punished the most even though, 540 00:26:58,800 --> 00:27:02,400 like you're saying, yeah, it's trying to behave Fair relatively 541 00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:05,000 responsibly compared to the rest of the industry. 542 00:27:05,300 --> 00:27:07,800 And yeah I mean all right. Yeah. 543 00:27:08,000 --> 00:27:11,700 Eric as an sdn driessen whisper hear from the on the sandwich 544 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:15,900 Berg I mean what do you make of just their kind of lobbying on 545 00:27:15,900 --> 00:27:19,000 this issue. In general just the fact that 546 00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:23,100 like I was struck the other day when there was that you know 547 00:27:23,100 --> 00:27:28,200 Mark and been donated a million dollars each to this crypto 548 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:30,800 Supermarket I mentioned earlier, Jesus Marc Andreessen and Ben 549 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,400 Horowitz. Yeah, yeah, my founders of yeah, 550 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,700 I think it was, it's their only political contributions of size 551 00:27:37,700 --> 00:27:40,700 that have been disclosed, like, in the last five or ten years. 552 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:43,200 And I know there's been a lot of reporting just on the ways in 553 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,100 which injuries and is engaging in Washington. 554 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:46,600 But what do you just, what do you make of? 555 00:27:46,600 --> 00:27:50,700 Just their kind of political, you know, it's to some extent, 556 00:27:50,700 --> 00:27:53,400 you know, they are pro crypto large, right. 557 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,600 And if they have tons of Investments I dig, it is more 558 00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,100 sort of conventional corporate influence. 559 00:27:58,100 --> 00:28:02,700 We will hire the experts. We will hire Hire former people 560 00:28:02,700 --> 00:28:06,000 from the agencies so that you will trust them. 561 00:28:06,000 --> 00:28:09,200 And I do think, and driessen has been able to build build up, 562 00:28:09,200 --> 00:28:12,800 sort of a reputation for being some of the adults in the room 563 00:28:12,800 --> 00:28:15,600 in crypto. So if you're going to regulate 564 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:18,300 it and you want to turn, you know, it's like okay we'll have 565 00:28:18,300 --> 00:28:21,800 our own draft legislation. I think what's interesting that 566 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,100 it is that instead of being inside of a Facebook, Microsoft 567 00:28:26,100 --> 00:28:29,300 Apple, some big company. You know, forming the internet 568 00:28:29,300 --> 00:28:33,500 Association Andreessen is Jane. Okay, we're making startup 569 00:28:33,500 --> 00:28:37,300 Investments and before these companies are huge, we need to 570 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:41,100 sort of be the lobbying organization on behalf of all of 571 00:28:41,100 --> 00:28:42,000 them. Are I guess they probably don't 572 00:28:42,000 --> 00:28:45,700 use the word lobbying they give policy policy advice. 573 00:28:45,900 --> 00:28:49,600 I mean, Katie Hans sort of playing trying to play a similar 574 00:28:49,600 --> 00:28:53,000 role where it's we're gonna we're going to be the advocates 575 00:28:53,000 --> 00:28:55,500 for an industry that if it's regulated. 576 00:28:55,500 --> 00:28:57,300 Properly will make a bunch of money. 577 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:01,700 I think Andreessen has such great coverage of crypto That 578 00:29:01,700 --> 00:29:03,300 it's obvious. Why it's good for them. 579 00:29:03,300 --> 00:29:06,500 I think Katie hon. You know, it's still to be seen 580 00:29:06,500 --> 00:29:10,700 whether she can show that she's going to win deals based on 581 00:29:10,700 --> 00:29:12,600 doing sort of influence peddling. 582 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:15,800 This probably good for the whole industry and not necessarily 583 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,900 anyone portfolio company. And she hired Chris lehane who 584 00:29:19,900 --> 00:29:24,500 we all know is, you know, you know a political guy who knows 585 00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:26,600 his way around Washington and you know, she's former head of 586 00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:29,500 communications and policy sorry at Airbnb. 587 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:31,100 And a yeah as well. Yeah. 588 00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:33,100 He was you know, one of her first hires and like what is 589 00:29:33,100 --> 00:29:35,400 that, what does that signify about kind of? 590 00:29:35,800 --> 00:29:37,100 Yeah, you know, to some extent right? 591 00:29:37,100 --> 00:29:41,400 It's just like just smart business right to hire hire, 592 00:29:41,400 --> 00:29:44,200 experts who, you know, can help you craft regulations in ways 593 00:29:44,200 --> 00:29:46,000 that are helpful to your portfolio companies. 594 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:47,900 That's just like, right? It's pretty simple. 595 00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:51,600 But it's also, you know, it's not as if, like, part of this is 596 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:53,200 because the industry is so new. Right. 597 00:29:53,200 --> 00:29:56,600 It's not as if like Sequoia is like lobbying on like, 598 00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:58,700 e-commerce before Congress, right? 599 00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:01,500 Because it's like the in, there's, there's Not that much 600 00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:04,300 space for them to, you know, throw their elbows around. 601 00:30:04,300 --> 00:30:07,100 But an increase in my could easily become like the most 602 00:30:07,100 --> 00:30:10,400 important player in Washington on this issue because there's a 603 00:30:10,408 --> 00:30:12,900 vacuum. It also I mean that's an 604 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:15,200 interesting comparison. You make to, you know, Sequoia 605 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,000 during the rise of e-commerce. And I guess what makes crypto so 606 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:22,400 interesting here is that there's so much more individual you 607 00:30:22,400 --> 00:30:25,700 know, money at stake that the you know, the regular person can 608 00:30:25,700 --> 00:30:28,600 get involved with that you would sort of look towards regulation 609 00:30:28,600 --> 00:30:30,800 to protect their just really hasn't been another. 610 00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:33,600 Freeze, right? I mean, e-commerce, you wouldn't 611 00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:36,100 see Regular People investing in these companies on their way up 612 00:30:36,100 --> 00:30:39,200 and getting fleeced, you know, as whatever. 613 00:30:39,200 --> 00:30:41,500 E toys falls apart. I mean, maybe as a public 614 00:30:41,500 --> 00:30:44,000 company but it wasn't the same thing as crypto, which is such a 615 00:30:44,000 --> 00:30:47,600 widespread, you know, individualized investment that, 616 00:30:48,300 --> 00:30:51,200 you know, it's just an interesting State of Affairs, 617 00:30:51,200 --> 00:30:54,100 when it comes to the expectations of regulators for 618 00:30:54,100 --> 00:30:55,700 other kind of rising Tech Industries. 619 00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,200 Also, the stakes are higher with crypto because it touches the 620 00:30:58,200 --> 00:31:00,400 financial rails. And like you know, the banks are 621 00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:02,800 you're fighting the Thanks. I mean, who did like, you know, 622 00:31:02,800 --> 00:31:06,300 pets.com have to fight really, you know, retailers. 623 00:31:06,300 --> 00:31:07,800 Oh my God. But like the banks have a lot 624 00:31:07,800 --> 00:31:10,300 more muscle in DC. And then also the other thing is 625 00:31:10,300 --> 00:31:12,900 like, you know, the great game in terms of like, you know, 626 00:31:12,900 --> 00:31:15,500 you're messing with the national currency system, like the two 627 00:31:15,500 --> 00:31:18,400 most important progress to stay in power or the military 628 00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,000 followed by the US dollar which keeps Americans borrowing low. 629 00:31:22,000 --> 00:31:25,300 So there's a lot of like kind of hawks in you know the defense 630 00:31:25,300 --> 00:31:28,900 department and in treasury who are like we gotta like smother 631 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:32,300 this thing in the in his crib because Is and it's reality is 632 00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:33,800 China. And Russia have also been 633 00:31:33,800 --> 00:31:37,600 encouraging crypto stuff as a way to like dislodge the US 634 00:31:37,600 --> 00:31:39,300 dollar as the world's Reserve currency. 635 00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:40,900 I'm sorry. So we can go and unlike some 636 00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:44,400 weird rabbit hole but but China is China, is Crackdown right? 637 00:31:44,400 --> 00:31:48,400 But I'm saying there, Fanning like competitors to the dollar 638 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,500 in the form of cryptocurrencies. I mean, if crypto really takes 639 00:31:51,500 --> 00:31:54,700 off and people don't need the US dollar anymore, that's a shirt 640 00:31:54,700 --> 00:31:57,500 of a geopolitical catastrophe for Uncle Sam. 641 00:31:57,800 --> 00:32:00,200 So you know that it's not like a binary thing but they're 642 00:32:00,200 --> 00:32:01,600 interesting. That's the Worried, like, if 643 00:32:01,608 --> 00:32:04,000 you're sitting there trying to like sell, you know, pet food 644 00:32:04,000 --> 00:32:07,500 online is different than trying to like, you know, challenge the 645 00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:11,200 national currency to frame up like the regular, I totally 646 00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,600 agree with what you're saying, I mean, to frame this up, you 647 00:32:13,608 --> 00:32:17,200 know, the Uber strategy which I think is representative of the 648 00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:23,300 broader Tech strategy is get penetration fast enough before 649 00:32:23,300 --> 00:32:26,800 Regulators can do anything. Then there's adoption, consumers 650 00:32:26,800 --> 00:32:30,900 are attached to it including politicians and then no one's 651 00:32:30,900 --> 00:32:31,700 really. To ban it. 652 00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:34,500 And then you have the leverage rather than asking for 653 00:32:34,500 --> 00:32:38,300 permission before things start crypto, as obviously succeeded 654 00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:41,500 in that playbook in that, it's sort of deployed and out there 655 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:45,600 before there's any real action. I think the question mark for me 656 00:32:45,600 --> 00:32:50,200 is, how does that strategy play out in a huge downturn, right? 657 00:32:50,300 --> 00:32:54,400 It's one thing, like, if Uber is still roaring, people love it. 658 00:32:54,600 --> 00:32:56,800 But in the crypto world where people are losing a lot of 659 00:32:56,800 --> 00:32:59,900 money, and a lot of consumers, feel screwed. 660 00:33:00,700 --> 00:33:01,900 Sure. You have the political 661 00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:05,000 penetration, you know, with like SPF like we've been talking 662 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,800 about. But if you have all these 663 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,200 regular people who've lost a lot of money on it, does that sort 664 00:33:10,200 --> 00:33:13,700 of deploy and then Lobby, strategy work? 665 00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,400 I don't know, like Jeff, how much do you think it's possible? 666 00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,800 Like, are you open to the idea? They'll like core features of 667 00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,300 the crypto World, get sort of band out of existence in the 668 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:25,300 United States. Or how much existential 669 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,900 regulatory risk? Do you think we still face? 670 00:33:28,300 --> 00:33:31,900 I think we're past that and also because the it's This is too big 671 00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:34,300 and too, you know, there's just too many people working in it. 672 00:33:34,300 --> 00:33:37,100 But also, I think the banks are moving in right now, my readers 673 00:33:37,100 --> 00:33:40,500 next era is going to be stable coins which was just a superior 674 00:33:40,500 --> 00:33:43,500 way to move money around and watching the Goldman Sachs JP 675 00:33:43,500 --> 00:33:46,100 Morgan's and Fidelity, you know, get a piece of that. 676 00:33:46,100 --> 00:33:48,800 So you know it's in terms of what it means for retail 677 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:52,200 investors TBD. But you know I you know I don't 678 00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,000 think it's going to be crushed out of existence you know I 679 00:33:55,000 --> 00:33:58,300 think the next you know half years maybe really Rocky but 680 00:33:58,300 --> 00:34:01,900 it's just even now after all the Carnage, it's It's much bigger 681 00:34:01,900 --> 00:34:04,300 than it was two years ago, you know, even after all the 682 00:34:04,300 --> 00:34:07,000 disasters and it's just, you know, this University classes, 683 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,400 graduating, all these like blockchain native people. 684 00:34:09,400 --> 00:34:11,600 You just not gonna stuff this back in the bottle again, but 685 00:34:11,699 --> 00:34:14,400 the shape it takes is a jump ball, you know, between the 686 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:17,400 banks and the traditional Financial system and, you know, 687 00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:19,699 the whole lot of other things and how it's going to shake out. 688 00:34:19,699 --> 00:34:24,199 I'm sure the crypto nightmare would be sure it's not getting X 689 00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:27,000 regulated out of existence, but it's regulated such a way that 690 00:34:27,000 --> 00:34:30,900 only like JPMorgan and Citibank can comply. 691 00:34:31,199 --> 00:34:33,500 Something. And then then that's yeah, 692 00:34:33,500 --> 00:34:35,800 tough. Well that also seems to be one 693 00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:38,500 of the major risks that the crypto companies have right now 694 00:34:38,500 --> 00:34:40,600 when it comes to regulation is that they're not coming at it 695 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:43,100 from a place of strength. Like if this discussion were 696 00:34:43,100 --> 00:34:46,600 happening while crypto was you know on the up and gaining more 697 00:34:46,600 --> 00:34:48,800 and more value and people weren't, you know, losing 698 00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:52,100 billions of dollars than maybe they would have a better kind of 699 00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:55,500 Leverage in the negotiations but where is it is now, you know 700 00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:58,800 they're basically like Eric has said multiple times you know 701 00:34:59,100 --> 00:35:01,000 Regulators are coming at it as they're on their way down. 702 00:35:01,100 --> 00:35:02,700 Down. So it's going to be completely 703 00:35:02,900 --> 00:35:06,700 in the, you know, Power Center of all the institutions to say 704 00:35:06,700 --> 00:35:10,600 that we're going to write the rules in favor of our interests. 705 00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:13,300 Because what are you going to do if we don't, you have absolutely 706 00:35:13,300 --> 00:35:15,400 no business what I mean. I mean they're playing the 707 00:35:15,408 --> 00:35:17,200 crypto Industries playing a long game here. 708 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:19,800 They've got more sophisticated DC and like there's that, you 709 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,300 know, llamas gillibrand. Bill that you know they'll 710 00:35:22,300 --> 00:35:24,300 notice I'm going to pass this year but they're on a kind of 711 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:28,100 34-year timeline is what they're doing and you know there's 712 00:35:28,100 --> 00:35:30,700 there's they're building allies and I think in the long term 713 00:35:30,700 --> 00:35:32,500 there. You know, and in the short term 714 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:34,000 they're simply going to write it out. 715 00:35:34,000 --> 00:35:37,100 Wait for the Republicans to take Congress and you know, just lay 716 00:35:37,100 --> 00:35:40,000 groundwork to to get the legislation through. 717 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:42,500 I think this is you know, the prospect of them being crushed 718 00:35:42,500 --> 00:35:45,400 entirely is diminished a lot, although you know, the next 719 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,500 couple months, who knows but Eddie. 720 00:35:47,500 --> 00:35:50,400 Where did the the Peter teal, acolytes it on all of these 721 00:35:50,400 --> 00:35:53,300 issues, you know? I guess I'm making of Masters. 722 00:35:53,300 --> 00:35:57,000 And yeah, and JD Vance. Well, I was, I was in, I was 723 00:35:57,000 --> 00:35:59,300 going to bring this up to it to just kind of ran out the 724 00:35:59,308 --> 00:36:03,000 political discussion. I mean like, The right more 725 00:36:03,000 --> 00:36:06,700 broadly is like, very Pro Bitcoin, like Bitcoin Maxi, you 726 00:36:06,700 --> 00:36:09,300 know, that's there. The conservatives are right, 727 00:36:09,300 --> 00:36:11,400 Peter, teal, promised us. It would be bigger than the 728 00:36:11,400 --> 00:36:15,600 entire value of the u.s. S&P 500, I think. 729 00:36:15,600 --> 00:36:18,000 Okay. Look like ladies Market, I don't 730 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:19,700 know. Yeah, some huge something 731 00:36:19,700 --> 00:36:20,700 absurd. Yeah. 732 00:36:20,900 --> 00:36:22,400 But but like, the politic is issue. 733 00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:24,700 I mean, like, yeah, I mean there's the t 0 acolytes who 734 00:36:24,700 --> 00:36:27,800 are, you know, very Pro Bitcoin and like you know for instance 735 00:36:27,800 --> 00:36:33,100 Blake Masters has like done NF. He's of 0 to 1 which is his 736 00:36:33,400 --> 00:36:36,100 book, you know. Very that's old trying to Sandra 737 00:36:36,100 --> 00:36:37,500 copies with Peter teal, he's dumb. 738 00:36:37,500 --> 00:36:40,000 Like nft is to do campaign fundraising which is like a new 739 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:43,700 frontier and certainly an Innovative way to raise money 740 00:36:43,700 --> 00:36:47,200 for a campaign Innovative way to use your mega donor, benefactor 741 00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,400 share benefit. But you know, there also are, 742 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:53,400 like far-left people who are, you know, somewhat crypto 743 00:36:53,400 --> 00:36:55,800 curious, right? And, to some extent, this is 744 00:36:55,800 --> 00:36:58,100 generational right? Like, you know, Jeff brought up 745 00:36:58,100 --> 00:37:00,500 Warren earlier. I mean, they're sort of the Old 746 00:37:00,500 --> 00:37:02,500 Guard. Guard of people who are anti 747 00:37:02,500 --> 00:37:05,600 crypto and there's like the younger generation. 748 00:37:05,600 --> 00:37:08,500 I mean, I don't think it's a surprise that you see the people 749 00:37:08,500 --> 00:37:11,400 who are more, you know, the Millennials are pro crypto and 750 00:37:11,500 --> 00:37:16,600 whether there are pro Bitcoin or Pro crypto more generally which 751 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:20,000 I think is the more position on the far left you know you see 752 00:37:20,000 --> 00:37:23,900 some lefties kind of talk about crypto as empowering people of 753 00:37:23,900 --> 00:37:26,400 color, you know taking power away from Wall Street. 754 00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:32,800 There is like the Lefty Kumbaya the golf rope Ever played by Vie 755 00:37:32,800 --> 00:37:35,100 crypto people. I wanna, I definitely want a 756 00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:39,000 table that for another episode. There is a strong Pro Lefty 757 00:37:39,000 --> 00:37:41,900 active development. I call BS on the crypto people. 758 00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:45,400 I talk to are devastated by the fact that they view the left is 759 00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:47,400 inherently against crypto. Yeah. 760 00:37:47,700 --> 00:37:50,100 Nice things dreaming. I mean Jeff. 761 00:37:50,100 --> 00:37:51,700 Do you disagree? You think there's a strong 762 00:37:51,700 --> 00:37:54,000 leftist crypto World here. I don't know. 763 00:37:54,000 --> 00:37:55,700 I think you're being a little cynical. 764 00:37:55,700 --> 00:37:58,600 You simply begin with the crypto crowd with might call you and no 765 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:00,600 Corner Eric but that's fine. Yeah. 766 00:38:00,600 --> 00:38:03,100 And you met Be right. I own coins just so they can 767 00:38:03,100 --> 00:38:04,900 call me that. I don't know what you call that 768 00:38:05,500 --> 00:38:08,400 willing to lose money to spite, you know, just to spite people. 769 00:38:08,400 --> 00:38:10,400 I guess is what I am. But yes. 770 00:38:10,800 --> 00:38:11,800 All right. I don't think it's totally 771 00:38:11,800 --> 00:38:13,200 Kumbaya. I mean like you look at the 772 00:38:13,200 --> 00:38:16,200 finance committee hearings. You're seeing like even AOC. 773 00:38:16,200 --> 00:38:19,600 Sounds moderately interested Congressman Richie tourists in 774 00:38:19,607 --> 00:38:22,300 the Bronx is very into it. You know, just says, there's 775 00:38:22,300 --> 00:38:25,100 like food deserts, there's banking deserts and I think a 776 00:38:25,100 --> 00:38:28,700 lot of poor people in this country have a right to hate the 777 00:38:28,700 --> 00:38:32,500 banks and they like the idea of crypto The use of crypto by 778 00:38:32,500 --> 00:38:35,800 like, you know, I'm, you know, Black and Hispanic communities 779 00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:38,000 in this country is higher than whites. 780 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,000 So I think there is something there and I do think there's 781 00:38:41,000 --> 00:38:43,800 tension Democratic party in that like Elizabeth Warren friggin 782 00:38:43,800 --> 00:38:46,600 hates it and people crypto and people took their marching 783 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,100 orders from her. I think a lot of Young Dams are 784 00:38:49,100 --> 00:38:50,900 frustrated and part because you're being shut out of 785 00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:54,600 fundraising opportunities and the risks eating like the, you 786 00:38:54,600 --> 00:38:57,700 know, the crypto thing to Republicans, it's Ruby likes 787 00:38:57,700 --> 00:39:00,200 eating the internet to, you know, to Republicans Or 788 00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:02,800 democrats. But you know, who knows it's 789 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:04,100 early days, you might be right? The End. 790 00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:06,400 Eric will see. Here's my last question. 791 00:39:06,400 --> 00:39:09,700 I mean, you know, a key part of this conversation has just been 792 00:39:09,700 --> 00:39:13,700 the centrality of Sam Venkman freed and you know, some of 793 00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:18,300 these other exchanges, you know, isn't that doesn't that just cut 794 00:39:18,300 --> 00:39:21,000 against the core of crypto like that? 795 00:39:21,000 --> 00:39:23,600 It's supposed to be decentralized. 796 00:39:23,600 --> 00:39:27,500 I mean, the idea that there's there could be sort of a bailout 797 00:39:27,500 --> 00:39:31,200 in any sense, even if it's sort of a total, you know free It 798 00:39:31,200 --> 00:39:34,900 thing, I mean clearly SPF is worried about contagion risk 799 00:39:34,900 --> 00:39:39,600 here and thinks that he needs to make some cheap eyes along with 800 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:41,300 maybe getting a deal. But I don't know. 801 00:39:41,300 --> 00:39:45,900 Is there, is there anything about this that cuts against the 802 00:39:45,900 --> 00:39:48,200 core of what cryptos supposed to be about? 803 00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:50,900 If you're having sort of a bailout in some way? 804 00:39:50,900 --> 00:39:53,200 Because wealth is so Consolidated that someone 805 00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:56,500 someone can afford to do, it doesn't every industry of 806 00:39:56,500 --> 00:39:58,300 winners and losers. Just to the extent that like, 807 00:39:58,300 --> 00:40:00,100 there's always gonna be some centralization, right? 808 00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:02,700 I mean, the fact you're Ting a company at all and, you know, 809 00:40:02,707 --> 00:40:06,200 raising outside money and accumulating customers, like, I 810 00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,900 understand that as like a theoretical concern, but like, 811 00:40:08,900 --> 00:40:11,900 at the end of the dentist like so much of the heart of what 812 00:40:11,900 --> 00:40:14,900 excites people about crypto is sort of the Dow Dow. 813 00:40:14,900 --> 00:40:18,900 Yeah, I just did a lot of people can get involved and, but the 814 00:40:18,900 --> 00:40:24,000 solutions were seen are sort of Big Rich entity who has a lot of 815 00:40:24,000 --> 00:40:26,700 control over the market, has probably made a lot of money 816 00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:30,400 from their visibility into the market further, consolidates, 817 00:40:30,400 --> 00:40:32,800 the It to me. What's happening? 818 00:40:32,800 --> 00:40:36,600 Wouldn't speak to sort of most of the virtues that people talk 819 00:40:36,600 --> 00:40:37,900 about when they talk about crypto. 820 00:40:37,900 --> 00:40:39,200 Yeah. No, I mean, Eric that the 821 00:40:39,200 --> 00:40:41,800 difference, I think Teddy between other Industries and 822 00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,300 crypto is other Industries don't have like their Central theology 823 00:40:45,300 --> 00:40:48,100 is not the centralization and you know, like, you know, 824 00:40:48,107 --> 00:40:50,500 Devolution of power to the common man, you know, you don't 825 00:40:50,500 --> 00:40:53,400 see like, you know, Bezos running around saying that but 826 00:40:53,400 --> 00:40:54,800 that tensions been part of crypto. 827 00:40:54,800 --> 00:40:57,400 Since the beginning, it's never been as, you know, to 828 00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,200 centralizes it professes to be, it's always like an ideal. 829 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,500 That's just over Her eyes and just, let's get a little more 830 00:41:02,500 --> 00:41:05,200 decentralized and, you know, it's, it's the storage been 831 00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,900 there since day one. Yeah, great. 832 00:41:07,000 --> 00:41:09,100 Well, Jeff Teddy. Thanks for coming on. 833 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,700 I really appreciate it. Fun fun to mix it up on and 834 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:13,900 crypto. You bet. 835 00:41:13,900 --> 00:41:15,400 I was a lot of fun guys. Thanks everyone. 836 00:41:27,700 --> 00:41:30,300 So goodbye. Goodbye goodbye, goodbye. 837 00:41:30,300 --> 00:41:31,400 Goodbye. Goodbye. 838 00:41:31,008 --> 00:41:31,400 Goodbye.