Welcome, silicon salad. I have been following what's
happening, but the thing is, is the eye to eye left Twitter for
lunch. So at span.
So following what's happening with Twitter?
But not big on Twitter is sort of fascinating because unlike,
oh, gosh, I had forgotten that anybody use has this service,
right? We can treat it like a business
and not like some sort of like cradle of democracy, right?
Because the, the funny thing is, if you are not on Twitter at
all, you still get news up almost as fast or as fast as you
would get it by being on Twitter all day.
And you don't actually experienced a lot of bad things.
So your view of people is so much more positive, that's an
interesting. But are you seeing the Tweets in
news stories? Or you feel You're still getting
the distillation of know but at the tweets are say about
Ukraine. I feel like I get all the
actually useful information, right?
Get on Twitter by reading like a very good news story in the Wall
Street Journal or the times huh? I don't think I'm missing out on
November time, people competing over, who has been an Eastern
European expert for the least long giving the least informed
opinion about what to do about a no-fly.
So we're here with dead cat. By the way, I'm happy to start.
The episode, you're just saying, she's not even on Twitter at the
moment because I was constructed in, it's sort of related but
opposite direction. Yeah, it's sort of a hang out
and talk about Elon episode is Eric and Tom and Katie are
you're just listening to Katy. Tell us she's given up Twitter
for Lent, right? I've been doing the opposite and
have been obsessively, tweeting Non-Stop and the big and
straight gluttony that I have in sort of I don't know, Mythos of
the Go Marc Andreessen unblocked me on Twitter idea like within
the last day or two. So uh the inspiration for the
name of the show is as freed me from my long-held band.
What do you think? Did it for him?
Can we get this been? He's flirting with the idea of
like I think for Easter sort of forgiving is blocklist, you know
all at once but right now the last I saw from him was that he
was just he'd pulled his followers and And most of them
like 60/40 said, no forgiveness, but I don't know, my came out
before that, or if he did, I have no idea.
But I just wonder. Do you think he is observing?
Do you think he observes like something?
Akin to lent? Some sort of, like, practice
rounds are like, wanting to take 40 days to clear the decks to
get deeper. I just, I just Shit on him like
yesterday. So I was like easy for him.
Every I know, right? I literally that's the test.
That's the test that Christ puts upon his, his greatest disciples
is to deal with. Yeah.
I mean, he'll I mean, I'd said, you know, to me it feels like
moderate Democrat position is, you know, actually, these things
are very complicated, you know, moderation is complicated, and
the Elan P Marcus Saks view is, it's not complicated, and then I
retweeted it. I said to put a finer point on
this and And recent sits on Facebook's board, he knows on
some level. That moderation is extremely
complicated to just boil it down to good versus bad.
Framed feel so, insincere to what end?
So we can have more fun on Twitter than if you decided to
be serious. So, I guess that actually does
go straight to the question of what is Twitter for.
So if it's really just for fun and fun can be, there's
benevolent and malevolent fun. There's all sorts of fun than
having it be this sort of free-for-all.
Of cancellation and toxicity, but also like, interesting
restaurant recommendation. I mean, I can see why that would
kind of be fine if that's what your view of what Twitter's for,
but for people who might want it used a something else, or the
sort of weird ideal of a towns Town Square.
It never made sense to me. That would, that would be
problematic. I think that's a great frame
because I do think part of the conflict on Twitter is like,
yeah. I want to have this Earnest like
we're going to Solve. You know, we're going to figure
this thing out and sort of this public discussion but I do think
there's a lot of like real politics or views of Twitter
where it's like actually you get much more engagement if you're
funny and people enjoy it and you construct things and as an
us-versus-them posture. So if you're really smart
instead of Being Earnest, you operate on some sort of, you
know, you play a game, you're fun.
You make me. So, don't we all just sort of
like vacillate between the different experiences of
Twitter. Different times, right?
I mean, like, no one uses it just for one reason and can
exclude it to the others. Like sometimes you're there
because you feel like it's a good news source, sometimes you
want to hate people and see what they say in like a medium that
makes it very easy to hate them and sometimes you just want to
express your own opinions. So it's funny that like, you
know, even he can't really decide as to what the experience
is and like, what the actual mode which is why I mean if
we're going to we're going to get to Elon as yeah.
You want to set that up. I feel like we really came in
orthogonally. You've been on Twitter.
Eric then you know we can get slightly matter, rock me.
But I can't I can't look and see if you unblock me for another
two days. Okay that's fine.
I can wait. I just going to you're doing
something for Lent when we were all just talking about the
Passover things that we were going to.
I don't feel like doing well and I'm I love The male's.
So lets you know, let our audience in as we frequently do
on the show a little behind the scenes.
We do not record the show live and post it.
We do it a couple days before it comes out.
So this is being recorded on Passover, Saturday.
I think it's April 16th and in the last two weeks there has
been quite a flurry of stories about power user Elon Musk who
has decided to launch a what now is undeniably a A hostile bid to
acquire Twitter, using money that he, I don't know, maybe
we'll find it, is Easter egg hunt tomorrow.
It's not really clear where that cash is coming from.
And so that has then, of course, launched a counter measure by
Twitter's board to Institute, a poison pill.
I don't know what the verb would be, like the over adjective.
Like a poison pill, poison pill strategy, a poison pill every
strategy. Yeah, yeah.
To basically dilute their own Shares in order to stop you
lying for buying more shares on the public markets and now we've
got, you know, the banks are involved.
I read the other day that like, Twitter has taken on Goldman as
one of their Goldman and JP Morgan's advisor.
Oh, okay. Yeah, sure.
You all know working with Morgan, Stanley was in the mix,
and then we've got reporting. Now, that elon's trying to talk
to Silverlake, who's worked with him in the past to see if they
would come on on isn't silver. Like still a Huge investor in
Twitter. I think that would be a complex
word. There are they still own like a
huge amount of stock. You think you own didn't know
that? Yeah, well thought through.
All right, did you guys did you watch the Ted interview?
I think that's not one of us started.
Now, I helped him because you know this is what so that I
could tweet more. I mean you on you know clearly
doesn't have the money secured he does.
In really have he wasn't like I'm certainly going to be able
to do this. It was like, oh yeah I don't
know is more Middle Lane, he acknowledged in the interview
the possibility of a plan B, you know which sounded like AKA
launch another product or something.
You know. Which oh, that'll that'll have
talked about. Yeah, Plan B is I mean, I can
barely keep people on the platform donut.
Yeah. You know, launched a competitor
to Twitter or something? No.
But It's what I mean, right? Yeah.
The desire for a Twitter product is so not there.
That even a product like Twitter is having a hard time keeping
people but anyways, right? Parlor, true social not beacons
of successful social media companies at the moment and I
think like to me the central point and we've already sort of
touched on this as just where's the money coming from?
Like if you're if you're buying a company, you need to have the
money and the pitch he gave was not like oh we're really going
to turn Twitter around and it's going to A great business.
It's like no censorship open up the algorithm his sort of minor
product changes. You know, he doesn't even love
advertising its core business. So I don't know how if you're a
financially money to investor you decide to come alongside
him. All right.
Well also I mean test that promise open it up at a million,
great tweets Blossom. I think that the problem with
that, as a as a board member is just the amount of litigation.
I mean like what, what kind of money are you?
You setting aside for the lawsuits and for you know the
extraordinary bad press. I thought the law states of
having no moderation at all. Yeah, exactly.
Like the weird harms that come out of it.
You know the active shooter situation say on a crowded
Subway where somebody has been using Twitter's?
Well you know it's just like you just start thinking to yourself
like maybe there was a reason why these companies put in
place, moderation and change their algorithms that weren't
simply in order. Serve the common good but had
some benefit probably Financial or legal to the company.
I saw there were a lot of people tweeting about that Elon had not
fully thought through any aspect of this.
See, this is why I'm not missing anything by not being on Twitter
continue, right? It's all playing I mean
basically he's live tweeting his way into an acquisition, but
that's as much as he thought it out, but the idea that it could
be a free-for-all, of course, like, you know, Twitter is
barely hanging on as it is, in terms of it being like a
reasonable place, to spend your time, like it's instant hit.
A shitshow of false news and, you know, borderline well, there
actually is just straight-up horn on there, but you know what
I mean? Like, graphic content.
Yeah, I'm people just screaming at one another right, right.
And so, for you to pull all of that back, God knows like, what
hell it would look like. I'd like the pure undiluted
Twitter and I don't think he really does either, right?
And I'm sure if you were to spend five minutes on it that
you know, that version of Twitter, even, he would probably
say like, yeah, this is, this is not good.
This can't be like the Free Speech.
I'd like what his voice was shouted down.
Well, yeah, that's when it really becomes a problem.
Well, so I feel like they're just structure of this a little
bit like there are two sort of buckets, right?
There's a sort of financial tactics of Elon taking over
Twitter and then there's like elon's vision for the reforms,
right? I mean, yeah.
I mean, like I think the more I'm curious about what you guys
think of is, what does like? Let's put aside, how will he get
the money? Will he get?
Because he could could drum up the money in 24 hours.
Right? And this will all be.
Absolutely. He does have the money.
I mean he'd it's not liquid. But yeah, great.
So it's like I think I would love to know what you got.
What does Twitter look like after Ilan takes it over?
Like, what does that world look like Mass resignation of
employees? That was the first thing.
Absolutely, it's likely. There's no way it could be a
public stock at that point, because its value would be just
torpedoed by appellant about, you know, outflow of talent of
people not wanting to work at that.
Come. Now, I'm not saying they're not
replaceable, but it would be an immediate At walk out, I would
guess what? 50 60 percent.
Well I guess it'd make up the star.
They employ Last by merging with true, social great.
Well, write all this was happening on Twitter key through
a boy, who knows, sort of Elon World tweeted that.
You know, I'd SpaceX Elon had seen line of interns were
waiting for coffee and Ilan. Told them if they didn't get to
work, he would fire them all. And, you know, Keith was holding
this up. It's sort of like a beacon of
what he Lon. Could bring Twitter, you know,
no more interns getting caffeinated.
And again, that's probably true, right?
First things. First elon's, let you fire.
The interns for waiting for housing, we touched on during
the TV show episode. Just like, you know, no
reporters are cheering for hard work.
And keep those definitely getting tons of scolds on
Twitter or like this, who this is terrible.
You're like, telling on yourself, basically.
But yeah, I mean there is, you know, Lines going to crack down
on people. If you takes over and I don't
think you have a rocket ship company level mission to
convince people that this is worth worth your time and your
skills are probably much more transferable if you're working
at Twitter to other tech companies.
And yeah, a lot of these people do believe in moderation and
don't want to be responsible for just like amplifying Donald
Trump again or whatever it would be.
Okay. So in addition to employees
fleeing, Shareholders. If they take the company private
there they will, the stock will plummet and value ahead of that.
Don't you think it would be probably the time said before
that? Does, he can't take it private
overnight. So once it's clear that he's
going to do it, I mean, how many but is it Vanguard?
And what would they just dump it, right?
But, or do they not or they blushing because they have to
their, they have to have to be locked in.
I think it's just a tender offer for their shares, right?
Yeah, if he's seriously. To do it, shouldn't the price.
Just rise. The price would rise to whatever
he's promised. No you're right, you're right
the president? Well yes, you'd lock in the
price and then it would if this the you're right Vanguard would
have to say yes because to be responsible to their
shareholders, they don't have to be like we are taking this $52
or share or whatever 5420 5420 and so even if the stock, even
if people started fleeing the stock today, it only makes his
offer look mr. The end of the day.
Ironically, so, Ones like basically.
Well, that's the haircut Elon Musk right now.
They cannot get away from Elon Musk, even just to think of it
as an investment for Ilan or whatever it would be.
Seems like a bad move. Like, there's no way that the
value of this thing is going to increase while under Ilan
stewardship at least in the short term, right?
I mean he's like doesn't seem particularly interested in the
ad business which is probably the only good business aspect of
Twitter, right? So one thing that's really
functioned over the last couple of years is like they can sell
ads and so if that's going to go away which Probably would be
damaged by it, being a toxic company or at least a
controversial company. So advertisers would not want to
spend a huge amount of their money there.
You know, it would probably be like a ten year project to
remake waiter. Who's he actually going to
appoint as CEO? Is he going to do it?
I mean Tesla's stock would obviously tank how many
companies can this guy, right? And how?
Yeah to Tom's Point, how would it make money if he destroys the
advertising business by driving advertisers off of it?
He was talking about subscription being a more
robust. Well for them and I would love
it if that were the model because then I would certainly
just delete my account, right? Great, there'd be no reason to
be on anymore. I thought you tweeted this or
something, you know, everybody can be verified, if they pay
something that's that money. Well, is it though?
Because I think that especially if it's a subscription-based
model, the idea of being on it to to take the temperature of a
certain type of person. It goes, Way?
Because it's good. Heart got to pay money.
I mean, why would you need to be on it?
But you could charge People based on the Emoji that they
want to have in their name to provide their experts, you know.
So it's like when covid wig as well.
That was just putting MD or PhD in your in your Twitter handle.
So that lets say that's a freebie and even then a crane.
So if it's something you can buy though, then there's no
verification for expertise, so even the symbol has no meaning,
right? Yeah, it's just a skin.
But yeah. So if you want to have the
Ukrainian flag in your Handle. That'll cost you like a monthly
subscription cost, you know, whatever the next thing is well
your Twitter. So if you want to put like the
the red bird in your handle that also costs money and then you
know that again if you're monetizing your core user base,
you're sort of going through like the Discord model.
I think that's an option and that the only issue though is
that Twitter is not particularly like sticky platform, most
people love fighting and so you're saying in your business
Saying we're going to make our core Revenue stream, people who
love fighting so much that they will buy emojis, okay?
Just making sure the then you if you want to watch it, you also
have to pay. It's like a pay-per-view thing.
I feel like on the highest level the contradiction of Twitter is
that it's super powerful with Elites who love it and use it
obsessively and that's sort of its World shaping power, but a
lot of the things those people want Would be terrible for like
getting a broad user base. That makes it appealing to
everyone and it feels like a lot of what Elon wants are like
improvements that the hardcore sort of Twitter set uses my
question you guys are you not kind of rooting for Ilan a
little bit in this process and I feel like if you're not ready
for him, you're kind of a chump. I'm rooting for him in that it
feels like I just want to sort of simplistic view of content.
Duration to come crumbling down. I just do think would be more
fun. Elon is responsible for this
Twitter problem. Let it be on sort of the right
to show that they can actually run some like cultural project
successfully. And then we can have a little
liberal parlors our own version of like silly like ancillary
social networks where but like, but I feel like David Sachs was
literally, like, if the game is fair, Elon, Elon will buy
Twitter if the game is rigged. There will be some reason why he
won't be able to. You were about to find out how
deep the corruption goes like this coming from like, the free
marketer people are supposed crying and people have all sorts
of founder protections for their, you know, CEOs to make
sure that other companies don't come in, just take them over,
like, it's just on its face, just like so stupid.
It does not leave. Open the option that if Elon
doesn't buy it, it's just because he woke up one morning
was like, fuck. I don't want to write an hour
ago reply to this tweet, indeed, you know, but it's like, idiots,
you know? It's like There's a very high
chance definitely my presumption.
First of all, I need to get on the record.
Is that this is Elon doesn't intend to do this.
This is a man who's threatened a private.
I take private before the Never Happened.
Someone that was the best when he said he was Tesla.
Tesla was like I have your violence.
I don't remember so. So Tesla and then he literally
in his Ted Talk all over the place.
He's like I have no respect for the SEC so it's a man who is
happy to try and push the limit of sec.
Rules to drive them in fucking crazy.
So this is a fun game there. He could have a successful
pump-and-dump like he's raising the Twitter share price.
I mean there are so many reasons.
It's like a fun thing. The guy wants PR, if he intends
to launch another social network, this is great PR for
that. And if he gets to walk away and
say, the game's rigged because people don't understand that,
you can offer a premium to a company's share price, and that
doesn't mean that the board concludes this, the best
financial value, That's standard.
Ma, you know, like it's hard though because I don't think
there's another rival. Usually boards can get, they can
wiggle out of formula by saying well when we went with the other
great buyer, we usually the price is the 52-week, high or
something. I'm yeah.
And this is not like on this sort of traditional MMA
analysis. I don't think that this is like
a clear-cut like that's a good price.
It's above the price. Yeah but snotty two-week high as
referencing a kind of a logical point in the Gets were all tech
stocks were surging. And, like, all of them were at
these absurd levels given their business growth.
I mean, he should probably make a strong argument saying that
Twitter will never see that high again, right.
I think it's totally illogical. Well Aaron levie at box whose
prolific on Twitter? Said, come on man.
Most people could put together a business strategy that supports
more than fifty four dollars a share for Twitter and David
Sachs said if it's so obvious. Why didn't anyone make a bit
before? I mean I think I agree with sex
on that but us So to pause, Eric, I would love it.
If you obsessively read, Twitter, and then compiled all
of the very best Tweets as you've done for us now and sent
Tom. And I are small dossier at the
end of each day to let us know. I know, I know.
Yeah, some of the newsletters do aggregate tweets.
Maybe I should my problem in Life, or in the game of content
creation is that once I've consumed something, I assume
everyone has seen it. And I'm like, that's obvious.
So what's interesting about it? You know what I mean?
I need to accept that I am consuming insane level of
Twitter relative. Even you guys let alone my own
readers, who are probably interested.
There are three different tiers here.
I mean, there's obviously you at the top and then me and then
Katie is, you know, in the midst of her lent.
Also, yeah. Cuz I like I've my tweets about
a deleted every couple weeks for, I think six years now or
something a really long time. But because I gave up Twitter
for lunch, I've run through the amount of tweets that exist
there of all deleted. So, So I think that they all
finally disappeared off the day, the New York Times said that
reporter shouldn't have to be on tour.
And I got like so many emails from people that were like, did
you delete your right? We're off.
Didn't mean dean pique Force you off the platform you love and
it's like, no, I felt it. Twitter was interfering with my
relationship with God and I had to learn Well anyway yeah, very
funny. Another thing I think Elon could
work on your core. Question was do we want this to
happen and I'm sincere. I know it can sound
tongue-in-cheek that I want but it's like I actually I do think
Twitter is sort of it's not clear whether it's good for me
or bad for me. Net.
Like if they made it worse than maybe I'd be free of it.
So I'm it's something. I'm happy to see sort of blown
up. So I'm willing to risk it.
And I would sort of enjoy putting the burden of like, I
mean, the whole my whole frustration with sir, Of the
Silicon Valley. Republican crew is like they
don't have to govern, you know, for a very pragmatic group of
people. It feels like they don't have a
governing vision for the world, it's just like their anti
anything the Democrats do without supporting a party that
has a governing vision. And similarly on this, it's like
oh they hate moderation. But anybody I mean there's a
great thread from the former Reddit Co yishan that basically
made the argument that anybody who has to moderate a social
media company eventually. Totally non partisan.
Reasons comes to conclude the, you need to moderate things just
because it because the lack of moderation starts destroying the
platform that people get so obsessed with something or that.
Even if something, you know, there's absolutely like when
companies like Facebook and read it moved to introduce some sort
of moderation, it really wasn't because they were trying to just
help people and make their experience great.
For some sort of benign reason they're like, we We we have 24
for money reasons, right? It's a business but no one
really wants to go to tell their CMO like oh we are we just
bought a hundred thousand dollars worth of banner ads at
the Neo-Nazi watering hole, right?
Where the conservatives would say that is sort of this is our
way of backing in the liberal like oppressive regime.
Basically we create this anger that puts the pressure on the
platforms and then they have to react and we say oh well it's
just business. So I, that is that's the
counter-argument. I'm not even, you know, like
ideological about it for me, it's just like, first of all,
it's the most fun outcome. Like, I'm just rooting for the
thing. That would be the most amusing
and entertaining the most fun though time at this point.
Yeah. Like I'm sure we're all well,
yeah, I don't know if you're going to get back onto the
platform, but yeah, I'm sure it can have huge social or moderate
social impacts if it becomes, you know, truly on filtered and
unfettered. But I also just think, like, it
puts Front and center. The fact that it's been kind of
a shitty business or it's like it's naturally business.
It's been an okay business, but it kind of shitty tech company
for the last couple of years. And we're supposed to pretend
that like, the alternative is it to keep doing what it's been
doing. I mean, Twitter has a
placeholder CEO right now. He was a, you know, high-level
executive Twitter that when Jack step down which by the way Jack
claims he did not know this was going to happen when he did that
probably know. We sort of what sort of put in
there. So there's no real strategy.
Clear. They like he didn't come in here
with like a 10-point plan of had a turn this company And this was
all about having someone else, you know, at the helm of this
clearly unpalatable ship, the ads, business continues to like
reel off more Revenue because they have this one particular
Avenue that we don't need to get into because it might bore
listeners. But, but, yes, they have an
accident, but the product fucking sucks.
Anytime you tell someone, who hasn't been on Twitter before
you should check it out, which you would never do.
But like, you know, like my mom every so often goes on and
realizes that it's the worst. Almost unreadable user
interface. It's just Full of the most
unhinged post that get promoted to the top.
Its Ben, you need to be on incessantly to know what they're
talking about. I feel like if I check out for a
couple days, you don't even get the jokes anymore.
I don't know how you still here, but it wasn't for like either.
Your brain is like networked to Twitter itself and you're like,
oh there, there this is sort of a light Riff on.
So, I mean to give an example, which I think you guys saw
Hunter walk who we had on in love had a tweet where he was
complaining. I think it was about the Elan
thing. He basically said instead of
buying Twitter Elon could give every person like a million
dollars, right? Like just like an absurd like
the math doesn't work out. Sort of tweet, that was a joke
on Michael bloom. When Michael Bloomberg was
running, somebody had made his similar, I think earnestly dumb
tweet about about that but that Hunter walked, we went extremely
viral because all the Liberals retweeted it sincerely and all
the conservatives quote tweeted it.
Saying dunking on it for being a terrible analysis and only like
you know this small circle of Silicon Valley, people who know
Hunter and followed this like understood that this was
originally meant to be a joke about this for no, Michael
Bloomberg. Yeah it just right.
It speaks to me the intersection of like building Twitter for the
masses. The masses don't have any of the
context that like, people originally making, they don't
want it. It's like it's really hard to
turn a product around 15 years into a company's existence.
Twitter is Or less the same thing that it's been like there
might be some Trends or you know cultural usages that change over
time but by and large it's the same thing.
Okay, can you guys explain something to me because this
debate over whether or not we should be allowed to edit like
the typos in our tweets. We can't for some reason, what
is the case against letting people edit out their horrific
typos because then you would say, you know, I love ice cream
and then you get 1,000 retweets and then you're just like I love
child Isis. Yeah right.
Yeah. And then people would be like
gotcha and then they would lose a job or something or times and
then somebody would edit it and all of a sudden you have like
some offensive image, you know, through and Annie Lon.
So Eliza super pro editing tweets.
I mean I guess I am too but for totally different reasons just
because like I'm a bad type or and my typewriter what they're
saying you could but then he loves proposal.
He said that oh well I guess it should clear like read Weeds and
it's like, what's the point? That's just deleting a tweet.
Like you can right now to write we lose all the engagement and
like, put it back up, it's just like, okay, you wanted a simple
motion. I, I just feel like that's the
whole thing people want is to be able to fix the typo without
losing all the like good engagement that, you know, it's
like, oh, I made a dumb type own a viral Tweet.
Now, I want both worlds, but it's just like, even Elan seems
to see the problem in editing tweets, even though it's become
like, A rallying Cry of his position which to me speaks to
the broader point that he is just not thought through this at
all and it's what's infuriating to sort of.
I don't know anybody who reporters why reporters go
ballistic about Elon is because it feels like Elon gives like
the dumbest like John, it's like a jock loss of some, you know,
it's like you have so many in class who thinks they
understand, like, you know, they don't believe in evolution but
they don't like know anything about it and you're like, you
haven't even thought through this.
But but here's why. He undermines this idea that a
lot of people have held onto for a long time that you have to
work pretty hard and prepare and study in order to be successful.
Right? And so I think when reporters
are going ballistic over him, what they're saying is you're
not the kind of person who's supposed to be able to do this,
right? So stop doing it.
Exactly. I remember another figure not so
long ago who ran for president, I think people work like we are.
Supposed to do that, because you've never read a book
Running. Yeah, that's right.
Yeah. Did you think it Katie don't
understand that? According to David Sachs, the
system is rigged against these people, right?
Yeah. It's very hard for these people
to do what they want to say. I don't know if the system is
rigged against them but I think normative Behavior did prevent a
lot of things from happening that is exactly.
And it's just that we now live in a world where for whatever
reason, I do not know normative Behavior.
People do not feel Bound by And people do not feel so bad when
Society turns on them for defying, it, they don't know
what Marc Andreessen. That's like, it's anti normative
Behavior. Yeah, it is sort of like, oh,
all these scolds you're not doing anything.
I mean that sort of an Express position is point.
I mean, it's in a very interesting distillation of
what's, what's going on? Let me defend Ilan for a second
here. Anyone have any better ideas?
Like I mean you know that I have always said if if somebody just
pulled the plug on Twitter, Tomorrow, it would not hurt
anything and I know they're going to be all these people who
are like, Katie that's not fair. There have been civil rights
activist and there have been, you know, marginalized groups
and there have been, you know, there's more disability
visibility and those things are all to some extent true, but
that does not mean that the mechanism that allowed those
voices to have more public are time.
Must always continue. Maybe we can now come up with a
new way or maybe now the mainstream media.
As more tuned for those voices, thanks to Twitter.
And it's now part of what reportedly served its purpose
and it served his purpose and it can go like the dodo or is it
like a panda bear and we keep it alive because we just think it's
so cute. But there's really no
evolutionary reason why I think this diplomatic presence for
the. I do think like I mean on an
earlier episode, I talked about like my ideological like
uncertainty a certain way and I do think there is a degree to,
which, like, the Elan thing is fun.
Like the people booing Elon are boring.
Twitter isn't that great right now?
Like this isn't Donald Trump. It's not like, oh, Donald Trump
being president means that people can't get across the
border. You know, you it doesn't mean
like actual terrible real world consequences for people like
there's a possibility that Elon runs Twitter in a way that I
guess like hurts our political world.
But for the most part it feels like sort of like would you
rather vote for chaos and fun and somebody who's willing to
like experiment or are you gonna or do you want to play Forum?
Where do you want to go? Because them and the system like
is like lawyers and shit. Like I do think like an
interesting theme to come out of this world is like part of the
way like the liberal power structure like gets these people
in line is that these companies go public and then they have to
follow like SEC rule, you know, they're always there.
All these rules constructed by sort of the liberal Elite
bureaucracy that then makes it so that they can do or say
whatever they want. Most of most of those rules are
like holdovers from like the post depression.
Sarah wasn't like some liberal plot.
It was like, how do we ensure that corporations can't lie to
investors and make money off of them?
And how do we ensure that people were made?
That there are many remain sounds sure, but people
companies get sued over everything.
I mean, but I'm just saying that those laws were not put in place
because of Democrats. It was literally a response to
the Great Depression and I support Financial regulation and
Yeah, thank you. Thank God.
It's like a huckster so. Right about now, I am
sympathetic to the idea that there is a regime that public
companies are basically forced into that.
Requires you, we expect like an adult CEO, right?
You can't be this like ridiculous.
Like, just Trump being CEO because you're basically trapped
in a regulatory regime and that's the conflict over the
tweets is Elon kind of a, like a like, is there is there some
sort of Volusia nari timeline on, which we put Ilan where
there was first. There was online trading and
then there was kind of like day trading and the manipulation of
the electronic infrastructure around markets and then there
was the GameStop stuff, right? Where people were able to work
in a concerted block to change prices absent.
Any regard for whether or not the company was doing well,
Market, fundamentals are no longer a thing and now Elon is
kind of Like the large investor version of that.
We had the small investor version of a large investor
relations. Yeah, I think I've seen people
definitely make the connection at this is just like a
super-sized version of the mean stock phenomenon.
I think that analysis kind of undercuts its actual business,
which is fine. Right?
You know it's not AMC Theatres which is like part of a
dwindling and fucked it and there is like a bull case for
Twitter. But here's the thing on the
bookcase for Twitter, it just relies on them kind of doing the
same thing that they've been doing right?
And the product will Bumble along In the way that it has for
the last couple of years, it's clearly not going to turn things
around because it was can turn things around.
It would have like a Visionary CEO laying out ideas that could
fundamentally change the product.
This is just sort of like, this is why?
Again, I'm rooting for Ilan. Because at least it's an
acknowledgement that if you care about this company and think it
should matter that at least try to do something to it at least,
like try to Institute a game plan even if it's a calf you
know, half-cocked you know, off the, you know, running by the
you know, whatever. Like there's at least, Something
some sort of energy and decision and desire to.
I think, maybe I'm giving him too much credit to try to do
something with with what is like a very interesting product.
Yeah, you have assigned, like a lot of really interesting
motives to to this myth. Like I'm like, wow, if that's
what he's thinking. I think that sounds great.
There was a lot of criticism on elon's, lack of knowledge of
free speech debates, I guess during the Ted Talk.
Yeah, I'm vehement on that sure, I'm sure he sounded like a
fucking moron during it because he doesn't not seem to think
about a lot of these things very hard, but all the smart people
that have been spending the last five years.
Discussing online speech, and moderation, if they come up with
any great Solutions, like are we in a position where things are
like, well, monitored and well measured.
I mean, like Facebook, spend a lot of money building up its,
you know, whatever advisory committees and you can argue
like politically they weren't empowered to do anything.
And you know, duck never was going to take him seriously but,
you know, for the companies that invested in it and they got all
the smart academics to talk about it and do things.
What? Exactly.
Is their proposal nothing? Really, it's clearly not working
out, it feels like Facebook hired, more people.
Some of it is just like a scaling up, the human moderators
with the size of your platform issue, which is companies have
been investing and you covered snap more than anyone.
They have a totally different philosophy and and Tick Tock is
a heavy moderation platform. So I don't know that.
I agree with you. We've seen that conversation
translate into companies with stricter, moderation.
And Are less problems. I don't know.
I can't speak The Tick Tock because I haven't reported on
it. I think people give snap a lot
of credit for it. Just has a different
architecture. It's just a different kind of
product. It's not set up for
disinformation, and like the whole, like, the product, whole
that, Twitter, and Facebook fills is not served by snap.
So you can't really say like, oh, why isn't face look more?
Like so what it? What it, what are they serve?
And why is it important to have one-to-one messaging?
Basically Facebook and Twitter. Serve that.
No, yeah, right. What do Facebook?
Her serve. And why is that important to
have all mine community online conversations?
Why is important? I'm not saying it is important,
but there's a desire for it. That there's clearly like a
human. The fact that these things have
persisted and in Facebook's case had become like an insanely
valuable company is because it Taps into some elements of human
nature that people want to communicate in this way.
And so if you were to shut these products down one day, something
would have to fill it up because for whatever reason we desire to
at least in the current technological infrastructure,
communicate in this way. Way?
So, I don't know. I just that particular one
annoys me because it's just not fair to say one company is doing
it right and other ones doing it you know not right when the
products are just different, they're fundamentally different.
It does seem like tectonic is starting to encroach on time.
That was spent on companies like Twitter or Instagram.
So does that mean that there's another way to serve that need
or is it just that you think these things are complimentary
well? But the, when you say take away
time, it's usually, you know, younger people, right?
And so They seem to be phasing out of those other products for
a long time anyway. Hmm.
So I don't think there's going to be, you know.
Yeah, sure. Maybe the entertainment value
that Tick-Tock offers is just fundamentally Superior to
Facebook, but for the way, the olds use Facebook and I guess
Twitter, I don't think Tick-Tock is really serving that.
Well, given that young people are phasing out of things like
Twitter and Instagram and Facebook and probably worried
from before Tick-Tock, does that mean then that if those things
went away, necessarily something like them.
Take their place, if people who are younger, just kind of, don't
need them or want them. It depends, I mean, we're
talking about like a decades-long timeline for that,
right? So, if we want to think in those
terms, sure. But everyone, you know, seems to
be thinking that like democracy is on the verge of collapsing
right now. If we got rid of Twitter, or if
we don't do better, moderation on Twitter, right?
We can't just have to serve a market view, like, if better
moderation doesn't happen in Twitter, is just terrible over
time, people just leave it, right?
And I don't know that democracy will fail because of it.
If Twitter became a ghost town, Like my space isn't Myspace,
doesn't Myspace? Hold on.
Let me say my space. So I go to I go to myspace.com
it's there. Hey Bikini Kill is doing a 2022
summer. Sure Tommy songs about right,
surprise released a new song. So my space exists of Twitter
became like some sort of weird thing.
I don't know that democracy would fail if everybody was just
like we hate this. We don't use anymore.
Oh, speaking of my there is a great relevant tweet on this.
I'm trying. If you pick a Eric about like
the parts of your brain that are occupied by tweets that you
don't understand the scale of Twitter that I've been on, well,
I was trying to draw attention, I had a good subscriber BOCES
week, I was trying to draw attention to that but then of
course, like the tweets of mine that were, you know, going viral
for me were, like, shitting on York Times or whatever, you
know, it's classic like, when did my space become only noun
students about like mainstream pop stars for a Time, Justin?
Like own Myspace. Can I read this week?
It's alright. Lesbian Mothman says, I was on
Tumblr when Yahoo had to sell it for three million after buying
it for 1.1 billion. We were all a little bit
responsible for losing Yahoo a billion dollars and with that
type of collective effort, I believe we here on Twitter can
lose Elon Musk even more. It's true.
It's so true. We all have a part To play.
Do you want to be the bearer of toxicity?
Or do you want to be one of the people who just abandons the
platform all together? I think I know which role I will
play well. So so this is what I wish that
the board's statement had been. Instead of adopting the poison
pill measure, you know, to block Ilana they should have said
look, we have a plan here. And that plan is to take this
company out with a whimper slowly richer even profitable
though, like I don't like for that.
You need to have at least be producing like throwing off
cash. That people write slowly.
We like Content. Moderation policy is that
eventually. We will have no content to
moderate on here. And so if this place just like,
Flames out over the course of like 10 15 years, we're all
going to be the better for it and then you can save your
money. You're not going to want it when
it's shitty. So let's just talk.
I think that's actually going to happen.
It's just a matter of whether or not it happens under if whether
it goes like the Elan route or the non è La en route.
And and I just think that because I can't think of a
public company that just said what we do now is irrelevant
we're simply going to shut down. I don't think any of them have
ever done. Done that, but you've seen
automakers. Go away.
You've seen, you know, tech companies like up like away all
the time. Like, remember the company
Compaq? I think that was a big computer
maker so they do go away. But it's generally not because
the management team puts out, a press release saying this is not
really what worth doing it anymore.
So they always have to go out with a whimper.
It's just like, do you want it to be an Elon style death of the
company, which actually might be faster, frankly.
Like they just limp along like this and people they're slow
attrition over the next decade because people are like this is
too weird. Yeah.
Well I mean I feel like this then gets to the web three
conversation, right? Like it's clear that Twitter
doesn't have a great web 3 strategy and since everything is
clearly going in that direction they're going to be obsolete.
Yeah, as far as that happens, if that works out Twitter 2021, I
just brought the financials and we have a literate audience.
So the revenue was just like a dime quarter.
Five billion. No, it's five billion, total
revenue and net loss of 221 million and it lost a billion
and change in 2020. So, yeah, it's a money-losing.
I mean, if you think about how much coffee the interns are
drinking. It is.
Does any other takeaways any of that offset the odds, right,
that's a homeless people. That's a revenue stream as well.
Yeah, he proposed he did say, yeah.
Let's put homeless people and Twitter's I got, you know, I
don't disagree with that. That is as far as he thought
about it, by the way. Yeah, again, yeah.
If this doesn't happen, which is more likely than not in my
opinion. Are we idiots for just like
getting suckered again? Like no, we're just like the
news conversation. I mean, given that he's sort of
like the boy who cried wolf. Should we have?
Just like not paid attention to this until the board said, okay,
we're selling to Ilan or I do, I know that's impossible.
There's no central point of. Yeah, I don't know what that
reality looks like. So it's hard to answer because
like we pay attention to all sorts of merger talks, right?
I mean like just the world was Richard, I mean right well there
is we I've also been critical of the financial press for loves to
report merger talks. When the reporter themselves,
clearly knows that the acquisition is less likely, you
know, is less than 50%. You know, it's like oh they
talked, but does that mean that they're going to get acquired if
you think? No, I person is reporter would
are against Morning. But I know plenty of reporters
are like, well, it's true. There are talks so we should get
ask you quickly true. Oh yeah.
Oh yeah, that's my least favorite.
Yeah. Well, I'm can't go any.
I can't go down that road anymore.
There's one thing that we haven't really examined in terms
of elon's quest. And that is, what is Plan B?
Right? Because he said, oh, if this
doesn't work, he has a plan B. And I think I know what plan B
is. And I think it actually will
solve a lot of the issues that we've kind of been stumbling
over this episode. I think he should try.
To acquire Pinterest. Oh my God, I forgot Pinterest to
like sister. Yeah, look Elon.
If you listen since you're, I know your kind of been.
So all of the content that's out there.
We're going to Tweet out this episode so you'll read this.
If you're looking to buy a bumbling tech company, that is
not managed to have any real product Innovation over the last
five or so years, clearly Pinterest is out there
Pinterest, right? As some of the woke is employees
around. So if you'll on really wants to
see a liar, liberal tears. Yeah, it is Astro, is that, is
that part of what he wants to do is see liberal tears flow, he
wouldn't hurt Birds. But I wouldn't be his backseat
was like to tweet to that, I even left.
His most Ardent followers would like to see that.
Okay, fine. Yeah, okay.
That place could be like a Bastion of like, cultural
insensitivity under you. Like, they already seem to have
problems there at Pinterest. I think it could probably made a
lot worse under your leadership, like, have a board was just
dedicated to like cells. Yeah, yeah.
My old school, and social stream, or yeah.
First of all, they have a male user problem at Pinterest, so
long Could a drawn could solve that overnight?
Yeah, exactly. Just get your fault.
Your Twitter follower Bros on the Pinterest.
That would probably double the user base.
And I think there's a lot. You know, you wouldn't have the
government on your back, they wouldn't care.
If you're a Pinterest, isn't Pinterest private, I forgot to
select notes. Public their public.
Wow, they did that. And that's great for them.
I think. Mmm, Yeah, but they've not yet
been acquired by Microsoft. Microsoft, apparently passed on
them. Oh, I was joking, but that's
hilarious. Oh no, that was a real.
K. Yeah, so they've been rejected
by like you know, the richest least attractive person at the
dance, just kind of stumbling around.
I think Elon is there, I'd probably be easier to line up
that Finance. There's a funny and you'll see
how this relates. There was a funny part in the
Ted Talk interview with Elon Musk where they weren't talking
about this to you and the guy was a strange interview, but the
guy was like, you know, Ilan like what what do you regret
most about like, Her career. Like what could you change any
lines? Basically, like the, we didn't
that I that me and JD didn't found Tesla ourselves because
Elon is basically, so full of regret that he has to share
credit for Tesla with other people, you know, you just wants
to erase like their creation. And the problem with acquiring
Twitter is no one's going to forget, like, Jack Dorsey or,
you know, I mean, like, what if he acquires Pinterest, you know,
he might be able to like, tell me right here.
You can erase those people be like, oh wasn't it wasn't the
same company, wasn't Ben Silverman?
No, I mean that's I doubt been would put up much of a fight.
I have this point about that. So, yeah.
I think it's, I think there's so much more opportunity there.
There's so much less resistance and I think you'd have more fun
Tom to your point. The market cap is only fourteen
point six billion dollars brightest 34.
So easier to line up that financing or at least pretend
that you've lined up that financing.
And by the way, it's an image based platform very mean
friendly. I know you, Gamzee Lon.
Oh yeah, and I'm sure I want to know what pepper the frog is
doing for his wedding. Mmm, exactly.
Yeah, yeah. Pepe is like Apartment Therapy
redesign. Mmm.
Yeah, I think we've solved it. Frankly.
I like this. A lot more elegant than the
Twitter thing does. Anyway, this is actually going
to happen interest. I'm Pepe the Frog getting
married. No, the Twitter acquisition or
what was spinning forward? For one minute?
We could do this in five minutes.
I think Ilan. This will fizzle out by the end
of this coming week. I think it will probably head
towards some sort of an auction phase.
And I would bet that by the end of the year, Twitter is probably
is probably owned by the private Equity or some shit.
I think they're going to have to get towards some sort of an
object. Why Thomas?
Bravo is looking at it? I saw a story Thoma Bravo, it's
embarrassing for my job. You don't want to take that?
Yeah. All the Bravo's.
Yeah. Right mr.
And mrs. Bravo or interesting right now.
Yeah, I think they're, I mean, I do think it does lay bare.
The fact that this is kind of strategically moribund company
that there has. There's no, there's no one
really at the helm. Clearly at this point, Ilan will
either lose interest or just realize, it'll be a lot more
work. That's kind of the same thing.
And I think it's going to head towards some sort of an auction
phase and maybe it'll get acquired by Microsoft or
something like that. Disney.
Maybe we'll what Katie did you you think it overcomes an
teacher? Like, do you think this gives
Twitter an excuse to be able to be acquired by a company that
otherwise would face antitrust? Screw no, no absolutely no.
I mean, Feels so unfair it's like oh yeah like Google can
acquire it still even though it's like there's I don't know
but why would Google want it? I mean that's that's the other
thing like Twitter is a platform that is losing users that is not
really that interesting. Unless you're willing to
dedicate huge swaths of your brain, to be able to understand
the weird construction of the conversation.
It's the kind of place you go when you want to kind of like
hate somebody but you just need someone to hate and you don't
have someone from Twitter tells you who to hate like I'm just
not really sure why like Disney would want to bring that on as
part of its brand, if you want your brain to feel like it's
like a slot machine, we like after years of it dizzy, you
know, that I go there, I guess I'm gonna predict the Elan does
acquire the company only because I can't imagine it going to a
private Equity Firm because there's no exit from it.
And it does not turn enough like steady cash flow to leverage off
of it and it has a PE ratio of almost 50.
So I just A kind of like why would I go to private Equity,
Firm do that, maybe I'm totally wrong.
Maybe Silver Lake will just take care of the situation because,
you know, they feel like they have a job, it would be with
with you. Yeah, I mean so like I thinki
Lon oh I didn't know that silver like was Pro Ilan, that's the
reporting. I don't I'm a little shy.
I just I'm just going to say Ilan takes over the company and
hastens the demise of Twitter as both employees and like normal
user must flee. So that people who are the power
users who really want to like either on one side of the
equation. You have people who want to talk
about how much they hate liberalism, that's great.
They can they can run roughshod over the platform.
Trump can come back, cool. Then they're going to be the
people who are like just constantly trying to cancel
other human beings. Like, who can we get fired?
Welcome to come on world view fully to the test.
And then, you know, it's three years, when Twitter has 10
million of them, Was horrifying user, isn't that?
It's all they have left a flatworm.
That's, that's, that's perfect, that's fine.
That's my prediction. Grimes is a capitalist.
Now, by the way, you see them weli, I read her Vanity Fair
interview. She didn't say anything about
that. She she had the secret baby.
Yeah. All right.
This is you guys all on.
Yes, you guys. All in truth, social?
Yeah, actually, I'm just gonna text you guys.
Like we always do. That's true signal.
It is. I was Ever happy with my Twitter
username. So if I can get in on the next
you know newer platform and get at dote on which I've always
wanted. I would be I'll take whatever
flow. Yeah, you gotta move fast.
When Ilan buys Twitter, you can buy from Elan at dote on.
You see outbid the other should be a market for everything.
Exactly. I can't get newcomer for some
reason. Yeah, I'm saying just try to
angle towards the new platform and get the name that you want
and then that'll be the ultimate irony, right?
It just like, you know, finally, Trump gets you gets re-elected
in 2024. And Twitter is just a shell of
itself that he's back on the platform.
And it's just like the same people that run truth social.
Well, I'm excited for the big Twitter.
True social murder. That's true.
All right, we'll see you guys there.
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. Goodbye.