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Welcome, full-time, salary. 
Hey everybody. 

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Welcome to volley game room. 
Thank you for coming and 

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drinking our drinks and crashing
the party and welcome to 

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everybody. 
What the fuck? 

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It up? 
Austin, Texas. 

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Tom has the enthusiasm. 
So I'm Eric new Comer, I run the

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newsletter newcomer named after 
myself. 

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We are co-hosting the event. 
This is my have a podcast called

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dead cat, with Tom, dote on 
here. 

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Hey, what you guys like? 
That fucking wheel up there, 

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guess what? 
I got a quick question. 

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All the people that were 
spinning the wheel out there, 

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who got a free? 
Who's got free drinks tonight? 

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Who wants free drinks. 
You got The Wristband. 

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Show me your wristbands if you 
got the wristband, big winners. 

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All right, I got another 
question for you guys out there 

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who got a free subscription to 
newcomer. 

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I realize it one in 200 you. 
Somebody is there somebody got a

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free subscription or newcomer. 
No, gonna grab really, somebody 

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email you the subscription later
come up over here. 

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You might want to come upstairs 
for a second. 

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We got a real winner in the 
house here and I want him to 

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understand what he's in for. 
Hey, Mike. 

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If it's not all that easy Mike, 
this is life. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, you know what sucks is 

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that was next to the unlimited 
drinks? 

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I know they set me up, so your 
by putting it, I know, but I had

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it and then everyone was 
cheering and then it right over 

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right over the next bankruptcy 
right there. 

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Yeah, thank you for that. 
Thank you. 

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Okay, so just a quick question 
here. 

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So thank you. 
What's your name, Daniel? 

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Hey, Daniel, welcome, are you 
from Texas? 

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Well, I live here now, but no, 
I'm not from Texas. 

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Are you one of those California 
guys? 

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I moved out to Texas. 
Yes. 

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Yes. 
Okay. 

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Okay, wait, wait. 
I'm from the better half of 

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California, though. 
So San Jose, not La. 

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Fuck La. 
I'm I've lived in both places. 

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I'm not taking his side. 
Do you work in Tech? 

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I do had you heard of newcomer 
the sub stack that focuses on VC

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and other Venture related issues
before this. 

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Tell the truth. 
Tell her like a sniper here. 

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If I say, no, no, no. 
We don't have that budget 

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marketing here. 
That is a mighty. 

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I know. 
No, I have not. 

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No. 
Okay, well, we're going to check

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back in with you, in six months,
with your free newcomer 

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subscription. 
We're gonna find out if it was 

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worth any of your time. 
So, thank you so much. 

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Thank you. 
Thank you. 

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Thank you for coming. 
Thank you, Daniel. 

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We're going to have a jack 
Conte. 

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The patreon co up here in one 
second. 

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So we'll be much more legit. 
I just this event is being held.

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Hosted by volley, which is an 
audio voice chat. 

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You should play audio voice 
game. 

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They have song quiz. 
I'm watching Max child right 

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now. 
Judge my marketing pitch for 

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him, which as a recursive 
feedback loop backs. 

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But yeah, they have a Jeopardy 
game. 

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They have a song quiz. 
You should play their voice 

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games on Alexa or whatever 
Google labs. 

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They got to deal with Jeopardy, 
they got a deal with Wheel of 

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Fortune, which you probably saw 
out on the front. 

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That was the original. 
A wheel from Wheel of Fortune. 

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By the way, you guys were all 
spinning. 

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So as a big fucking deal. 
All right, so we got Jack Conte,

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like we said, coming up here 
later before that. 

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I feel like this is my first 
time at South by Southwest. 

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Yeah, I came pre-pandemic. 
Sort of several times in the wet

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back when apps were still really
trying to go viral South by but 

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after I think absolutely 
legitimate well, that's 

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amazingly. 
The Tech conference was that 

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people. 
There was a breakout apps, like 

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you can Come here, you could 
like demo your app like Vale and

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then it would become the next 
big thing and then he would say 

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like oh in the way that ex broke
out at South by the next thing 

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the breakout. 
Yeah right well I mean Twitter 

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Twitter Foursquare, where the 
relapse this sort of did it 

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right. 
Right. 

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So there's Twitter and then like
it's a huge drop-off from there 

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to the rest of the other apps 
that were sxsw meerkat for a 

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second. 
I think people thought like 

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really break. 
Can you go through that will go 

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through that but since we have a
couple minutes here before we 

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get Jack coming up, On stage. 
I thought it'd be fun to kind of

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talk about South by Southwest as
a as a tech at the history of 

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tech at South by because like 
Eric was saying, I think it was 

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Twitter that made South by a 
name like a place you want to 

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break your app out. 
But I did a little bit of 

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research Eric and I are both 
journalists so you know so we 

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Google Google old articles. 
Yeah. 

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We know how to read from, it's 
called research and we and we 

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pulled up some of the old 
winners at South by Southwest. 

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And so I'm going to pull it up 
here. 

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This is an article that came 
out. 

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This was in wired and by the 
way, I don't want to call out 

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any other journalists because we
all have to file fucking stories

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from here. 
We're here because our companies

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paid us to be here and the best 
we can do is file enough copies 

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that our editors don't ask us 
why they sent us out here, but I

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want it. 
I want to read an article from 

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2008, which was two years after 
Twitter broke out here and it 

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was talking about the next 
breakout app at South by. 

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So 2006 was was Twitter. 
I think 2007, With Twitter. 

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And by the way, the Twitter 
breakout was not like, oh, we 

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can conceive of the 
possibilities with this app or 

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we can consider this as you 
know, the next wave and how 

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democracy will be, you know, 
that was that was practiced age 

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of Twitter where you would 
tweet, like, I'm drinking a 

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coffee. 
That was the reason people 

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fucking use of Twitter at South 
by was like, I'm at I'm at the 

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conference, right? 
The pre politics, I'm here in 

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Michael Dell talk right now and 
this is fucking, you know, 

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crazy. 
That's what they used it for. 

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It wasn't about like right. 
Well forces. 

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Are invading Kharkov right now. 
So anyway, so this is from, this

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is from a 2008. 
This is from, this is the 

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breakout app, two years after 
Twitter broke out last year. 

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Twitter was the big winner at 
South by Southwest in 2008. 

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It's all about sked dot-org. 
Every year one web service 

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captures, all the buzz of the to
week-long conference by proving 

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itself to be an Innovative geek 
friendly and perhaps most 

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importantly, insanely useful 
this year. 

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A simple calendaring service is 
the site most plugged into South

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by Southwest dike Zeitgeist. 
So that that was, that was where

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things went. 
We have a lot of people yawn, 

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sked dot-org, still. 
Yeah, hardcore users got in how 

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to the scared. 
Dot-org. 

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Founders. 
Raise your hands. 

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So I don't know what, you know 
what could try guys. 

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We're all were all Just trying 
here. 

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No no shade for the scheduled or
guys. 

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But quickly with the comments 
for me, bring Jack on stage. 

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I want to run down the other 
breakout apps that they had at 

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at South by want to do that. 
Let me let me bring up an 

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article. 
This is from box. 

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This is written by her friend 
Kurt Wagner. 

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By the way, no longer at vaux, 
you guys know girl back, this is

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a tech Insider podcasts real 
Insider shit. 

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I see we got Josh constant in 
the crowd. 

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Yeah. 
We love. 

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We love older. 
All right, so Twitter, 2007, big

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deal. 
We like that. 

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That worked out 2009 Foursquare.
I mean that's basically an ad 

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tech company right now. 
I think that right sleeve You do

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right? 
They utilize their location data

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and sell it to things. 
Kind of fell off a bit. 

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From being the mayor of like you
know, Franklin's Barbecue, 2012 

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was highlight, the app was 
highlight. 

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Big break out at you as member 
highlight. 

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Do you really do you guys 
remember highlight? 

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I don't remember. 
It was about like it was 

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location-based. 
It was like you could find out 

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if your friends were nearby, it 
was the founder of Clubhouse. 

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Yeah. 
I mean it was he the meerkat guy

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to or no? 
That's a different guy. 

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Yeah. 
All right, there are a lot of 

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social apps meerkat, which 
several months after South by 

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Southwest had to Pivot to house 
party, right? 

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Which is no longer a thing and 
that's it. 

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That's the end of the article. 
That is the that is the full 

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extent of the breakout asked by 
side by side. 

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All right, let's get Jack. 
I'm here. 

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Jack Conte to see you at 
patreon. 

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Also a musician, his company was
recently valued at four billion 

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dollars. 
He is an expert on the Creator 

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economy. 
Jack thanks. 

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Thanks so much for being here. 
Ah thanks for having me psyched 

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to be here. 
Yeah, you missed live. 

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Audiences your musician. 
So and it's been obviously two 

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years since we've had. 
I mean it's at where else. 

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Can you get drunk and talk about
trust and safety and content? 

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Palestine Free Speech. 
Right? 

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Right. 
How have you I was asking this 

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away. 
I have you done, many, have you 

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performed Itself by or what's 
your history with my wife? 

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My wife has and I've always, you
know, I've probably been to like

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two or three of these. 
So not not a ton really. 

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Yeah, what? 
And by the way, the name of your

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band, you've got a couple, 
right, you've got a couple of 

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outfits and when people probably
know the most is pomplamoose, 

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pomplamoosemusic a high pockets.
Yep, okay, but never performed 

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here at South by. 
Nope, never performs out that we

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actually don't both bands are 
interesting. 

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We own our masters. 
Okay, and so touring and live, 

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isn't like the primary income 
stream for the band's. 

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So we kind of, you know, we like
cell songs, we have memberships 

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through patreon. 
We like sell merch, other stuff 

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like that, but we don't do a ton
of live stuff. 

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Really interesting. 
Yeah, what's the reason why it 

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just doesn't fit with the vibe 
or you just would rather keep 

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everything Studio based or 
what's we're completely 

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independent? 
Okay, we we again on our masters

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so like our money comes from 
streaming and and other things 

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where, you know, Like we that we
do with our fans. 

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I just wanted we're going on 
sound, right? 

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You all here is great. 
Make sure to let's keep the mics

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close. 
Oh and friends are showing up. 

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Sorry to cut you off. 
I just knows mine. 

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It's important that they hear us
you know it's one of the thing 

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here you. 
Yeah. 

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So by the way I mean live 
performing is so let's actually 

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for the audience here that 
doesn't know what patreon is. 

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00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,700
We can probably just give that 
run down before use that as a 

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launching pad for the rest of 
gravitation. 

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00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:16,200
So why don't you give the the 
elevator for For B now, for 

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billion dollar company patreon. 
Sure. 

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Yeah, it's a membership platform
that helps creators, run 

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subscriptions, and in exchange, 
for exclusive content and 

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Community with their fans. 
This is a way that a lot of 

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00:10:27,600 --> 00:10:29,700
craters have been kind of 
running businesses and building 

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that that die-hard fan base and 
getting paid for it. 

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00:10:32,600 --> 00:10:36,100
Yeah. 
What like podcaster number one 

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or what sort of, in terms of 
people running real like 

218
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membership, businesses and 
generating revenue for you guys 

219
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like what are sort of the 
greatest hits or and Is and then

220
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specific. 
So it's a lot of video, a lot of

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podcasting is a lot of visual 
artists and web comics but it's 

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pretty Diversified. 
I mean it's folks across all 

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types of categories at the end 
of the day it's like do you love

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your fans and do your fans love 
you back. 

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Those are the creators that are 
crushing it and and you know 

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doing a really good job. 
Yeah. 

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00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:06,500
I mean let's go back to the 
origins of patreon because I 

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think I you and I kind of cross 
pass along like 2014, which is a

229
00:11:11,908 --> 00:11:13,900
very early days for patreon 
because we're just getting off 

230
00:11:13,900 --> 00:11:15,200
the ground. 
So what was the? 

231
00:11:15,300 --> 00:11:17,600
The inspiration for the app. 
Why did it need to exist? 

232
00:11:17,600 --> 00:11:19,800
As far as you were concerned and
what problem were you 

233
00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:23,200
addressing? 
Yeah, I was solving a problem 

234
00:11:23,200 --> 00:11:25,900
for myself, right? 
I had just finished like three 

235
00:11:25,900 --> 00:11:29,900
months of working on this music 
video that cost me 10 grand. 

236
00:11:29,900 --> 00:11:32,400
I trained my savings account to 
do this video. 

237
00:11:32,400 --> 00:11:34,200
Well, I'm maxed out to credit 
cards. 

238
00:11:34,300 --> 00:11:37,300
I built a replica of a man named
Falcon cockpit in my studio. 

239
00:11:38,000 --> 00:11:41,600
I work with this, like the video
involved, this animatronic head 

240
00:11:41,600 --> 00:11:43,500
and this 3D printed hexapod, 
robot. 

241
00:11:43,500 --> 00:11:45,000
Like I went all out on this 
video. 

242
00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,000
It's like Like, okay, go Aero. 
Yes music videos, right. 

243
00:11:48,000 --> 00:11:51,800
It was like, remember that a 
feat of heroics, right? 

244
00:11:52,100 --> 00:11:55,500
And and it's a video up on 
YouTube, can we find is up on 

245
00:11:55,500 --> 00:11:57,100
YouTube and has over 2 million 
views? 

246
00:11:57,100 --> 00:11:59,900
Like it was a thing that I knew 
was going to like reach my 

247
00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:02,200
community. 
Like, people would be psyched 

248
00:12:02,200 --> 00:12:04,800
about an excited about it. 
And I knew I'd upload this video

249
00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,300
and I get paid 150 dollars in ad
revenue, and I was like, right, 

250
00:12:07,300 --> 00:12:10,100
fuck this. 
I cannot keep doing this, right,

251
00:12:10,100 --> 00:12:11,300
right? 
So you're going to get 2 million

252
00:12:11,300 --> 00:12:13,100
views on YouTube and then, 
excellent. 

253
00:12:13,300 --> 00:12:14,700
Okay. 
You can do, it has about. 

254
00:12:14,700 --> 00:12:16,800
I think it was like, Tune into 
like sorry, sorry. 

255
00:12:16,800 --> 00:12:18,200
Yeah, there's always number 
inflation. 

256
00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:20,900
But yeah, it's getting $200, 
Instagram. 

257
00:12:21,300 --> 00:12:23,800
Yeah, I think that, like over 
the lifetime of the video now, 

258
00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:27,000
it's maybe like, maybe like, 800
bucks or 900 bucks, something 

259
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:28,200
like that. 
Right? 

260
00:12:28,200 --> 00:12:30,100
And what saying, what year was 
this? 

261
00:12:30,400 --> 00:12:34,600
This was 2013, okay? 
So like the YouTuber Creator 

262
00:12:34,600 --> 00:12:37,700
economy was you know getting off
the ground in a big way back 

263
00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:39,900
then right? 
Like YouTube is trying to kind 

264
00:12:39,900 --> 00:12:41,900
of cultivate these groups of 
people. 

265
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,900
They have the Creator program 
they were trying to make it 

266
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:45,200
happen. 
Yeah but it is. 

267
00:12:45,300 --> 00:12:47,600
It clearly wasn't enough like 
why didn't you tubes own 

268
00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:50,000
efforts? 
Give you the revenue and 

269
00:12:50,000 --> 00:12:51,800
business that you thought you 
should have gotten. 

270
00:12:53,100 --> 00:12:58,200
I think it's a matter of the 
business model on on YouTube. 

271
00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:03,100
If I'm a fan of a Creator and 
suppose, I'm a die-hard fan of a

272
00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:05,100
crater suppose, I have all the 
shirts. 

273
00:13:05,400 --> 00:13:09,100
I go to all the shows. 
I watch every single video. 

274
00:13:09,100 --> 00:13:11,600
I follow them on Instagram. 
I'm like die hard fan of that 

275
00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:14,500
crater when I watch that crater 
is video. 

276
00:13:15,400 --> 00:13:18,000
Under the ad model. 
I'm essentially transferring 

277
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:23,800
1/1000 of a CPM to that Creator 
in value, which is maybe pennies

278
00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,400
or less, even though I'm a DOT. 
Like I love this person and 

279
00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:31,500
their video might change. 
My life doesn't fucking matter. 

280
00:13:31,800 --> 00:13:36,900
It's 1/1000, you know, of a CPM 
that business model sucks. 

281
00:13:37,000 --> 00:13:39,500
Right for individual creators. 
Yeah, turns out. 

282
00:13:39,500 --> 00:13:42,400
It has some pretty big problems 
with Society at large as well, 

283
00:13:42,500 --> 00:13:44,100
right? 
But for creators, it's not in 

284
00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:46,100
the mediations. 
Yeah, it's not an efficient like

285
00:13:46,100 --> 00:13:48,900
economic engine to fuel their 
creativity, right? 

286
00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:51,300
Yeah. 
And so when you actually start 

287
00:13:51,300 --> 00:13:55,900
paid how soon after this YouTube
video is patreon exist in some 

288
00:13:55,900 --> 00:13:59,400
form. 
So, it's funny, I was working on

289
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:04,700
the video leading up to patreon 
and it was before I posted the 

290
00:14:04,708 --> 00:14:09,000
video that I was like, had this 
dark realization is like, this 

291
00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:11,000
is the best thing I've ever made
in my life. 

292
00:14:11,300 --> 00:14:13,800
And I'm going to be paid less 
than $200. 

293
00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,600
I won't do that. 
And that's when I simultaneously

294
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,500
started working on the idea for 
patreon. 

295
00:14:18,900 --> 00:14:21,500
I sketched out the ID on 14 
pieces of printer paper. 

296
00:14:21,600 --> 00:14:23,600
I sent it to my freshman year 
roommate in college. 

297
00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:25,700
He looked at it was super 
inspired thought we should do 

298
00:14:25,700 --> 00:14:27,800
this. 
I said great, let's do it right?

299
00:14:28,300 --> 00:14:32,100
And then he started basically 
engineering the first version of

300
00:14:32,100 --> 00:14:33,700
patreon. 
He's so he started you know? 

301
00:14:33,700 --> 00:14:36,500
Riding the. 
He's listening to you by CTL. 

302
00:14:36,500 --> 00:14:39,600
Yeah, okay. 
And and then we launched patreon

303
00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:42,600
with that video. 
That was the video where I post 

304
00:14:42,600 --> 00:14:44,500
it on YouTube at the end of it. 
I put a little Vlog. 

305
00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,900
I said, Everybody trying this 
thing. 

306
00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,800
I think it could help a lot of 
people like you know, join me. 

307
00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:53,500
How many members did you get you
remember? 

308
00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:58,500
Yes, within two weeks. 
I was making six figures as an 

309
00:14:58,500 --> 00:14:59,500
artist. 
Wow. 

310
00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:03,700
Which like you know right. 
I mean yeah like I didn't change

311
00:15:03,700 --> 00:15:05,600
my music through the monthly 
subscription. 

312
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:07,500
You like a shit. 
Exactly. 

313
00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:09,600
Do you know, have you tried to 
see if any of those people are 

314
00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:12,500
still giving you their money? 
Or did you cut it off or they're

315
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:13,100
still? 
No. 

316
00:15:13,900 --> 00:15:15,600
I have a date. 
Job now. 

317
00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:18,900
So I don't post much on that 
account anymore. 

318
00:15:18,900 --> 00:15:20,900
Actually, I haven't posted in 
like seven years on that 

319
00:15:20,900 --> 00:15:22,700
account. 
Ironically, I built this thing 

320
00:15:22,700 --> 00:15:26,400
to help me be a Creator and then
I had to stop posting but I 

321
00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:28,900
popped loose in scary pockets 
are very, very prolific, you 

322
00:15:28,900 --> 00:15:31,100
know, so I'm actually making 
like a hundred music videos a 

323
00:15:31,108 --> 00:15:34,100
year between those two bands but
just not for my solo stuff. 

324
00:15:34,100 --> 00:15:36,100
I don't have a team around. 
Those are on patreon like those 

325
00:15:36,100 --> 00:15:38,400
are people that can sign up for 
ya the shit. 

326
00:15:38,400 --> 00:15:41,100
Those are ya both bands. 
Have memberships and both bands 

327
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,000
are, you know, it's have active 
communities and are releasing 

328
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:45,900
weekly. 
And Elite Daily, both bands are 

329
00:15:45,900 --> 00:15:48,300
releasing daily. 
Yeah, did you know that you 

330
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:50,100
wanted to go down the like the 
vent? 

331
00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:51,500
Like raising through Venture 
Capital route? 

332
00:15:51,500 --> 00:15:53,200
Because theoretically this is a 
business. 

333
00:15:53,400 --> 00:15:54,400
You guys take. 
What is it? 

334
00:15:54,400 --> 00:15:56,700
10 percent. 
We have three tiers of pricing 

335
00:15:56,700 --> 00:15:58,700
5. 8 and 12 5-12. 
Yeah. 

336
00:15:58,800 --> 00:16:01,800
So, theoretically from day one 
you guys were producing Revenue 

337
00:16:01,800 --> 00:16:03,700
like this was a real big boy 
business. 

338
00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:06,600
Yeah, I mean, within a month, 
the company was profitable, 

339
00:16:06,800 --> 00:16:08,500
right? 
Because it was, it was making 

340
00:16:08,500 --> 00:16:10,400
money and Sam and I weren't 
taking salaries. 

341
00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:13,300
And so yeah. 
And then there came a point 

342
00:16:13,300 --> 00:16:16,900
where we were getting so much in
Found so many emails. 

343
00:16:17,100 --> 00:16:21,100
You know, we realized we needed 
to hire a team to kind of help 

344
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,300
with the operations of the 
business and that's when we 

345
00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:25,600
started looking at options and 
trying to figure out, you know, 

346
00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,300
do we need to raise money? 
Do we just hire people? 

347
00:16:28,300 --> 00:16:31,300
Do we try and bootstrap it and 
yeah what? 

348
00:16:31,300 --> 00:16:34,100
I mean, you really emphasize 
membership. 

349
00:16:34,200 --> 00:16:36,500
Right. 
What distinction are you drawing

350
00:16:36,500 --> 00:16:38,100
there? 
I, you know, I'm in sort of the 

351
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:41,200
newsletter business, which is, 
you know, related to Media 

352
00:16:41,200 --> 00:16:44,500
companies and there's much more 
of like They say subscription 

353
00:16:44,500 --> 00:16:47,000
and you know, there's this sense
that it's very clearly tied to 

354
00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:50,800
like a recurring product, I 
don't know, what do you see is 

355
00:16:50,800 --> 00:16:53,600
sort of the membership 
subscription lying? 

356
00:16:53,600 --> 00:16:56,800
I think it's an emotional 
component that makes it 

357
00:16:56,800 --> 00:16:58,400
different. 
A subscription is very 

358
00:16:58,400 --> 00:17:01,500
transactional. 
Now there can be subscriptions 

359
00:17:01,500 --> 00:17:04,000
that you deeply care about 
organizations that have missions

360
00:17:04,000 --> 00:17:06,000
that you really care about your 
voting with your dollars. 

361
00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,700
You want to support them. 
But I think what distinguishes a

362
00:17:08,708 --> 00:17:11,599
membership is that it is deeply 
emotional. 

363
00:17:12,500 --> 00:17:15,700
I'm paying Not just for 
exclusive content and Community.

364
00:17:15,900 --> 00:17:18,900
But I'm paying because this is 
something that I want more of in

365
00:17:18,900 --> 00:17:21,300
the world. 
It's a beacon of my identity. 

366
00:17:21,300 --> 00:17:23,900
It's like a I'm a super fan of 
this thing. 

367
00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:26,599
And I think the other the other 
component of it that's different

368
00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:30,900
is it allows structured tiered 
benefits that a crater can offer

369
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:32,700
to their fans, right? 
So Creator can have three or 

370
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:36,000
four tiers of membership. 
Whereas the subscription is kind

371
00:17:36,000 --> 00:17:40,200
of just one thing for the 
exclusive content or you know, 

372
00:17:40,200 --> 00:17:42,900
the box in the mail or whatever 
it is whereas membership is 

373
00:17:42,900 --> 00:17:44,100
more. 
Holistic more about the 

374
00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:45,700
community more about the 
emotion. 

375
00:17:45,700 --> 00:17:47,200
You have tears of newcomer, 
right? 

376
00:17:47,200 --> 00:17:49,800
You've embraced that model as 
well have monthly annual and 

377
00:17:49,800 --> 00:17:52,500
then I have founding, which is 
just sort of you have a lot of 

378
00:17:52,508 --> 00:17:53,800
money with water to give its 
right? 

379
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:55,600
Yeah. 
Yeah, that's cool. 

380
00:17:55,800 --> 00:17:57,500
What do you call that validated?
No sir. 

381
00:17:57,500 --> 00:18:02,000
I got founding. 
It smelled a just like it is it 

382
00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:10,100
is it is a surprise like oh wow,
that's a little touch. 

383
00:18:14,500 --> 00:18:16,700
Oh my God, I think I should be 
even more. 

384
00:18:16,700 --> 00:18:18,300
Like, that's just funding your 
therapy at that. 

385
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:20,400
Right? 
You're on your own. 

386
00:18:20,600 --> 00:18:23,800
I mean when you guys got going 
there was sort of like there was

387
00:18:23,800 --> 00:18:26,300
like the I feel like there's a 
lot of hype around like the 

388
00:18:26,300 --> 00:18:28,800
kickstarter like crowdfunding 
thing right. 

389
00:18:28,800 --> 00:18:32,400
And that's much more go. 
Go did towards like the Creator 

390
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,600
economy or the idea that these 
is actually people's jobs and 

391
00:18:35,600 --> 00:18:39,900
less like one off. 
I mean have you how Have you 

392
00:18:39,900 --> 00:18:42,500
actually seen a shift in like 
the mix of type? 

393
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:44,600
The types of projects you're 
doing or you feel like you're 

394
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:48,200
always on sort of that the 
Creator economy side rather than

395
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:49,800
this? 
Because I'm sorry too. 

396
00:18:50,200 --> 00:18:52,700
But I'll let you answer but like
I have a cousin who created like

397
00:18:52,700 --> 00:18:57,700
a comic book and that was sort 
of like you know almost he did 

398
00:18:57,700 --> 00:19:01,000
on patreon but it had sort of to
me that sort of like Kickstarter

399
00:19:01,000 --> 00:19:03,100
feeling this like a one-off. 
I'm supporting him. 

400
00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:04,700
Wasn't his main business. 
I don't know. 

401
00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:07,500
How do you sort of? 
There are a lot of Trends there,

402
00:19:07,500 --> 00:19:09,200
you know, we hear less, I think 
about crowd. 

403
00:19:09,300 --> 00:19:11,200
Any relatives or Creator economy
now? 

404
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,300
Yeah, I think crowdfunding kind 
of had its day and it works for 

405
00:19:15,300 --> 00:19:18,400
some things, but at the end of 
the day, it's a very different 

406
00:19:18,400 --> 00:19:21,600
thing than what we're doing. 
You know. 

407
00:19:21,600 --> 00:19:24,700
Crowdfunding is like I have this
thing I want to do but I can't 

408
00:19:24,700 --> 00:19:27,500
do it until I get funding. 
Whereas membership is like, hey,

409
00:19:27,500 --> 00:19:30,100
I'm doing this thing, it's 
working its media. 

410
00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:33,700
And this is now an economic 
engine for media, and it's a 

411
00:19:33,700 --> 00:19:36,000
subscription engine and a 
community engine, like all these

412
00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:39,100
things, whereas, you know, 
something like Kickstarter. 

413
00:19:39,300 --> 00:19:43,200
Like I have this idea for a 
project and I need funding for 

414
00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,000
it and it's this one off chunk 
and it allows me to do this 

415
00:19:46,000 --> 00:19:47,900
other thing. 
It's just like a very different 

416
00:19:47,900 --> 00:19:50,800
type of business model than 
like, I'm a crater, outputting 

417
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:53,200
regular stuff, and I'd like to 
be paid for that. 

418
00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:55,800
And I'd like to build a business
around that that's a little bit 

419
00:19:55,800 --> 00:19:59,700
more, like something like the 
guardian or like New York Times 

420
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:03,800
subscription business and a 
little bit less like, you know, 

421
00:20:03,800 --> 00:20:06,600
I need money to put on a play 
and I have this idea for a play 

422
00:20:06,600 --> 00:20:07,900
happen. 
Do you think the crowdfunding? 

423
00:20:07,900 --> 00:20:10,300
I don't hear as much about it. 
You know, I mean, for a time 

424
00:20:10,300 --> 00:20:13,900
like in I used to cover media 
and there was a real thought or 

425
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:16,200
argument on the part of these 
companies that this was going to

426
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:19,200
supplant, you know, big media 
companies because why couldn't 

427
00:20:19,200 --> 00:20:23,300
it Creator, why do they need to 
go to Sony or Paramount or you 

428
00:20:23,300 --> 00:20:25,400
know, Disney to say, give me 
money to make this thing. 

429
00:20:25,400 --> 00:20:28,000
I want to do versus the audience
that I already have. 

430
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:29,400
That might be excited about this
idea. 

431
00:20:29,400 --> 00:20:31,000
I mean, what, what happened to 
that? 

432
00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,200
If you don't think it, you know,
has Merit anymore, why not? 

433
00:20:35,800 --> 00:20:41,800
Yeah, it's such a good question.
I think there's actually not a 

434
00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,300
ton of interest in most craters 
that I've talked to for 

435
00:20:45,300 --> 00:20:50,300
crowdfunding it feels a little 
bit like Please help me. 

436
00:20:50,700 --> 00:20:54,500
It feels a little bit like I 
can't do this unless I get 

437
00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:59,500
funding, it's a little needy. 
I don't know, guarantee really 

438
00:20:59,500 --> 00:21:00,700
that you're going to get it 
right? 

439
00:21:00,700 --> 00:21:04,400
I mean honestly I don't think 
it's a scam but it's a real. 

440
00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:06,500
I mean, it's an investment 
essentially which is not. 

441
00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:08,100
It's not quite as clear cut an 
investment. 

442
00:21:08,100 --> 00:21:10,400
I would assume like enough 
people did kick starters where 

443
00:21:10,400 --> 00:21:13,400
they didn't pan out and stuff 
that there was a burnout from 

444
00:21:13,400 --> 00:21:17,100
the funder where it's like, Oh, 
The Upfront model is dangerous 

445
00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:19,800
where a patreon or any sort of 
Subscriptions. 

446
00:21:19,800 --> 00:21:24,200
More tied to recurring output. 
Yeah, and I mean, I think the 

447
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:27,100
other thing about it is it's 
like a really heavy lift. 

448
00:21:27,300 --> 00:21:32,500
Like I know a lot of creators 
who did these campaigns and then

449
00:21:32,600 --> 00:21:36,700
for three years afterwards, they
were fulfilling physical, right?

450
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,200
You get all the horny up front 
and then you're like, oh now I'm

451
00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:42,900
committed to this thing forever,
that, and you assume a lot of 

452
00:21:42,900 --> 00:21:45,600
risk in doing that. 
Like like to, I know craters who

453
00:21:45,600 --> 00:21:48,900
like two years later, they were 
getting like slips. 

454
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:53,100
German Customs saying like your 
package didn't go through like 

455
00:21:53,300 --> 00:21:55,800
and then they're like, I have 
this person German, right? 

456
00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:58,200
You're saying like Adidas, see 
like a company. 

457
00:21:58,200 --> 00:22:00,800
And you have to scale instantly 
with no infrastructure. 

458
00:22:00,800 --> 00:22:03,000
It's like it's a very difficult 
problem. 

459
00:22:03,100 --> 00:22:05,900
Yeah. 
So I want to ask a question. 

460
00:22:05,900 --> 00:22:07,900
I think everyone out here has 
probably been dying for me to 

461
00:22:07,900 --> 00:22:10,200
ask this whole time. 
Which was why didn't you tube 

462
00:22:10,200 --> 00:22:12,700
supplant patreon as a model, 
right? 

463
00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:16,700
I mean what you guys the the 
reason that I think everybody is

464
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:21,300
dying, my God. 
Yeah, yeah, yeah. 

465
00:22:21,500 --> 00:22:28,100
I was gonna get you. 
Yeah, but I mean, like, the 

466
00:22:28,108 --> 00:22:30,300
question was like, you know, 
when you're a platform business,

467
00:22:30,300 --> 00:22:32,400
especially when it was YouTube 
related, people would have 

468
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:34,200
assumed that they were just 
going to build that 

469
00:22:34,200 --> 00:22:36,800
functionality into YouTube 
itself and they were going to 

470
00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:39,000
crush you guys. 
I think I really like 50 

471
00:22:39,000 --> 00:22:42,600
articles about that in 2014. 
Yeah, I kind of want to do the 

472
00:22:42,600 --> 00:22:47,800
mean answer because I've had a 
beer and so what do the mean 

473
00:22:47,800 --> 00:22:50,300
answer? 
The mean answer is they listen 

474
00:22:50,300 --> 00:22:55,200
to two types of feedback 
lawsuits and competition and 

475
00:22:55,200 --> 00:22:57,200
that's not exactly true. 
That's the mean answer. 

476
00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,200
They actually have a really 
great product team. 

477
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:02,000
I mean, at the end of the day 
they do, it's just a matter of 

478
00:23:02,000 --> 00:23:05,100
prioritization for them, and I 
understand why they didn't build

479
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:07,700
this. 
I didn't understand, you know, 

480
00:23:07,900 --> 00:23:11,100
before I started a product 
company, you know, now I 

481
00:23:11,100 --> 00:23:14,000
actually do understand, I 
understand because the vast 

482
00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:17,500
majority of their business comes
from ads and this was not a 

483
00:23:17,508 --> 00:23:18,900
priority for them, it's not 
there. 

484
00:23:19,000 --> 00:23:20,800
Mission. 
Their mission is not to make 

485
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,400
sure creators make a living like
that's not the mission of the 

486
00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:25,000
company. 
They thought it was for a bit, 

487
00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:26,500
right? 
I mean I think back to like I 

488
00:23:26,508 --> 00:23:28,800
don't want to 12 the Creator 
spaces. 

489
00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,500
I mean the hundred million 
investment in all the different 

490
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:32,200
channels. 
Yeah. 

491
00:23:32,200 --> 00:23:34,000
But those are all means to an 
end. 

492
00:23:34,100 --> 00:23:36,900
You know those are they were and
I don't mean to talk shit about 

493
00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:38,500
YouTube like it's a great 
company. 

494
00:23:38,500 --> 00:23:41,800
I would not have a band or 
distribution or anything. 

495
00:23:42,900 --> 00:23:47,000
I guess, I'm just offering that,
like, all of those things were 

496
00:23:47,000 --> 00:23:48,900
efforts to increase. 
Watch time. 

497
00:23:49,100 --> 00:23:53,600
And right, like the primary kpi 
for the company was watch, time 

498
00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,700
is watch time. 
That is what they're trying to 

499
00:23:56,700 --> 00:23:59,100
do, right? 
So like look at the kpis and 

500
00:23:59,100 --> 00:24:01,300
then you get a sense of like, 
how are they prioritizing? 

501
00:24:01,300 --> 00:24:03,600
And what matters. 
And if you want to know, 

502
00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:06,100
ultimately, if you really want 
to know a company's priorities, 

503
00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:08,000
just look at the allocation of 
R&D. 

504
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:11,300
In the organization, just look 
at where their Engineers are 

505
00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:14,000
working and in YouTube's case, 
they're working on ads, they're 

506
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,000
working on, watch time they're 
working on things, 

507
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,000
personalization recommendations 
algorithms. 

508
00:24:18,100 --> 00:24:18,900
That's what they're trying to 
do. 

509
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:21,400
Do and I get it, I just and it 
makes sense. 

510
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,400
I think it's the right thing for
them to do, it's their business.

511
00:24:24,200 --> 00:24:27,700
But I think you know, the 
problem still needs to be solved

512
00:24:27,700 --> 00:24:32,500
and somebody's got to solve it. 
I mean, you can look at patreon 

513
00:24:32,500 --> 00:24:35,300
from so many different lenses. 
One is like this sort of Insider

514
00:24:35,300 --> 00:24:39,100
like yeah YouTube versus patreon
versus some staggering. 

515
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:42,100
But there's also just I've heard
you talk about this before. 

516
00:24:42,100 --> 00:24:46,300
I mean, zooming way out. 
We have these assumptions about 

517
00:24:46,500 --> 00:24:50,500
like bands selling CDs or like 
the Types of business models 

518
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:53,500
that fuel creatives. 
Like, I don't know. 

519
00:24:53,500 --> 00:24:57,100
Do you like, do you think we 
take too much for granted like, 

520
00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,800
this is the way like you run a 
band right now. 

521
00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,300
Yeah, yeah yeah. 
We're convinced all that shit is

522
00:25:04,300 --> 00:25:08,900
bullshit is bullshit like 
nobody, nobody knows. 

523
00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:13,700
Nobody knows that there's so 
many interesting new innovative 

524
00:25:13,700 --> 00:25:15,900
business models around media 
right now, if you think about 

525
00:25:15,900 --> 00:25:20,100
what's actually happened like 
the last 20 years, Art creation,

526
00:25:20,300 --> 00:25:25,800
Global art creation has shifted 
from The Real World into the 

527
00:25:25,800 --> 00:25:29,400
digital world. 
You talking about NF, TS I know 

528
00:25:29,400 --> 00:25:31,100
it makes me want to know your NF
TV. 

529
00:25:31,100 --> 00:25:34,700
Let him finish this. 
That I'm talking about the fact 

530
00:25:34,700 --> 00:25:38,900
that like we used to like, make 
a living digitally, right? 

531
00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:40,800
Like I said, the live 
performance aspect. 

532
00:25:40,800 --> 00:25:44,300
This excluded is like, it's a 
minority of how we engage with 

533
00:25:44,300 --> 00:25:45,300
our audience. 
Yes. 

534
00:25:45,500 --> 00:25:48,800
And like now our art is 
infinitely replica. 

535
00:25:49,800 --> 00:25:53,900
And no longer scarce, and that's
why you're seeing things like NF

536
00:25:53,900 --> 00:25:56,500
teas and why you're seeing all 
these other like, you know, 

537
00:25:56,500 --> 00:25:58,900
technological innovations. 
Because everybody's trying to 

538
00:25:58,908 --> 00:26:03,400
figure out how does art survive 
in the day and age of of 

539
00:26:03,400 --> 00:26:09,800
infinite replicability and 
infinite, like creation, right? 

540
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,900
So each infinite and reach 
infinite, reach and 

541
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:16,300
distribution, and the economics 
are still being figured out, 

542
00:26:16,300 --> 00:26:17,100
right? 
That's why I like, people are 

543
00:26:17,108 --> 00:26:19,600
excited about the crater. 
Economy is because Cuz it's 

544
00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:22,100
there's finally a movement 
that's like raising their hand 

545
00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:27,300
and saying, no ads are not good 
enough by themselves, that is 

546
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:29,400
not the answer. 
We need to figure this out as a 

547
00:26:29,408 --> 00:26:34,400
species, do you worry? 
I mean, any new business model, 

548
00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:38,500
has it could raise revenue a lot
for the top creators, it could 

549
00:26:38,500 --> 00:26:41,200
create more opportunity for a 
long tail. 

550
00:26:41,300 --> 00:26:44,500
Yeah, I mean there's certainly 
resentment from some podcasters,

551
00:26:44,500 --> 00:26:47,800
you know like oh the best 
leftist comedy podcast gets like

552
00:26:47,900 --> 00:26:50,000
a ton of chopo choor. 
Coughs or whatever, you know, 

553
00:26:50,100 --> 00:26:53,100
and then all the other sort of 
the long tail, it's just much 

554
00:26:53,100 --> 00:26:54,700
harder. 
Same shit with sub stack to, 

555
00:26:54,700 --> 00:26:55,800
right? 
I mean, they're not even 

556
00:26:55,800 --> 00:26:58,200
claiming that like sub stack is 
a scam because you can look at 

557
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:00,500
Matt Iglesias, right? 
There's enough Edibles or are a 

558
00:27:00,508 --> 00:27:04,100
newcomer the biggest create a 
newcomer like business do you. 

559
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:06,600
But I mean, do you think there's
more of a using? 

560
00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:10,700
There is more of a long tail 
with this new model, or do you 

561
00:27:10,700 --> 00:27:12,500
think it's don't think so? 
I know. 

562
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:16,400
So I know so because I've seen 
the data looked at patreons, 

563
00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:20,700
distribution of earnings by 
Creator and Um creators who were

564
00:27:20,700 --> 00:27:23,300
previously making a few hundred 
bucks on YouTube under the old 

565
00:27:23,300 --> 00:27:26,600
model are now literally, making 
thousands of dollars in some 

566
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:31,100
cases tens of thousands of 
dollars and hiring executive 

567
00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:34,200
teams and leasing office, space 
and building Studios. 

568
00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:38,300
And the way I would describe it 
as the long tail as much longer 

569
00:27:38,700 --> 00:27:42,500
and much taller. 
In other words, the the 

570
00:27:42,600 --> 00:27:47,900
democratization efforts to 
empower and enrich creators have

571
00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:50,600
applied. 
To now hundreds of millions of 

572
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,900
people globally, and it's 
working. 

573
00:27:53,100 --> 00:27:57,600
Now, will there be creators? 
Who haven't found content Market

574
00:27:57,600 --> 00:27:59,200
fit yet? 
Or only have, you know, a 

575
00:27:59,208 --> 00:28:02,400
thousand fans or whatever it is 
and can't quite figure out the 

576
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,100
economics. 
That will always be the case and

577
00:28:07,000 --> 00:28:10,400
it's not that actually. 
Like I am very sympathetic to 

578
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,000
those craters. 
I was one of those craters for a

579
00:28:13,008 --> 00:28:15,300
very long time. 
I was trying to find fit and 

580
00:28:15,300 --> 00:28:17,900
trying to find an audience and 
felt like I was speaking to 

581
00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:20,500
avoid. 
And that Fucking sucks sucks, 

582
00:28:20,900 --> 00:28:26,400
but it's hard for me to imagine 
a company that can solve that, I

583
00:28:26,400 --> 00:28:27,900
don't know that that can be 
solved. 

584
00:28:27,900 --> 00:28:30,900
I think there will always be 
creative people who want to find

585
00:28:30,900 --> 00:28:34,200
an audience and can't seem to do
that. 

586
00:28:34,300 --> 00:28:37,900
Do you feel like it is patreons 
responsibility in any way to 

587
00:28:37,900 --> 00:28:40,300
help with distribution and 
discoverability? 

588
00:28:40,500 --> 00:28:41,500
Get us the hardest thing. 
Right? 

589
00:28:41,500 --> 00:28:43,300
It's like I know what I'm doing 
is great. 

590
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:45,700
Yeah, I know an audience out 
there exists that wants to pay 

591
00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:47,400
for it, but I don't know how to 
react them. 

592
00:28:47,700 --> 00:28:50,500
Yeah. 
By the way, it's so funny. 

593
00:28:50,500 --> 00:28:53,500
Like talking product strategy in
this context, isn't it? 

594
00:28:53,500 --> 00:29:01,400
Was like a really fun. 
All right, let's let's talk 

595
00:29:01,400 --> 00:29:06,000
product strategy. 
Yeah, so you ask me if it's 

596
00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,500
patrons, responsibility, do you 
feel present work on Discovery? 

597
00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:12,500
So here's how I would frame it 
patreon, set out to solve a very

598
00:29:12,500 --> 00:29:15,400
specific problem. 
The specific problem we're 

599
00:29:15,400 --> 00:29:17,700
solving was, there are creators,
who are getting millions of 

600
00:29:17,700 --> 00:29:20,000
views. 
Jurors who have incredible 

601
00:29:20,000 --> 00:29:23,700
reach, but they're being 
undervalued by Society. 

602
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:26,500
Society was looking at this 
craters and saying, you're 

603
00:29:26,500 --> 00:29:28,500
getting a million views. 
Here's a couple hundred dollars 

604
00:29:29,100 --> 00:29:34,300
that's fucked up. 
Our responsibility is to fix 

605
00:29:34,300 --> 00:29:37,800
that problem, because no one 
else was fixing that seven eight

606
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:39,400
years ago. 
Now, there's turns out there's 

607
00:29:39,400 --> 00:29:42,800
other companies that are trying 
to fix that as well, but our 

608
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:45,500
focus and our mission was to 
solve that problem. 

609
00:29:47,200 --> 00:29:48,400
Here's where it gets 
interesting. 

610
00:29:48,900 --> 00:29:51,900
Suppose we were to say, okay, 
we're actually not just going to

611
00:29:51,900 --> 00:29:54,200
solve that problem. 
We're going to try and help 

612
00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:56,400
creators find audiences to begin
with. 

613
00:29:57,000 --> 00:30:00,200
That actually puts us in 
competition with YouTube. 

614
00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:02,400
That puts us in competition with
Facebook. 

615
00:30:02,600 --> 00:30:04,400
That puts us in competition with
Twitter. 

616
00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:09,500
At the same time, I actually 
don't know that. 

617
00:30:09,500 --> 00:30:14,000
That's a war that we would win. 
Like those businesses are solid 

618
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:17,900
businesses, they have moats, 
they have Network effects that 

619
00:30:17,900 --> 00:30:20,500
make it very difficult to break 
into those worlds. 

620
00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:22,600
I think patreons. 
Best bet at solving. 

621
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,000
This problem of crater payments 
is focusing very specifically on

622
00:30:27,000 --> 00:30:30,800
the problem of Creator payments 
and it's slightly different 

623
00:30:30,800 --> 00:30:36,900
problem than audience and reach 
and so An effort to like Define 

624
00:30:36,900 --> 00:30:41,300
the category and get into market
and help creative people. 

625
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:45,000
We were very narrow and targeted
with our focus on what problem 

626
00:30:45,000 --> 00:30:47,000
we're solving. 
It's super interesting, you 

627
00:30:47,008 --> 00:30:51,500
know, having my own newsletter 
sub stack, clearly has a can get

628
00:30:51,500 --> 00:30:54,900
hit from either side, right? 
If they take 10%, I'm and they 

629
00:30:54,900 --> 00:30:57,600
don't give me distribution. 
I'm sort of resentful. 

630
00:30:57,600 --> 00:30:59,500
Yeah, that they're taking so 
much right. 

631
00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:02,900
On the flip side, we just saw. 
They launched an app and now 

632
00:31:02,900 --> 00:31:05,700
it's like, oh, you're trying to 
sort of move me into Or Walled 

633
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:07,900
Garden a little bit. 
You know, then turn it smartly 

634
00:31:08,400 --> 00:31:10,100
is that promising distribution 
at all. 

635
00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:13,500
Like, yeah, the app you know 
it's much easier to read other 

636
00:31:13,500 --> 00:31:16,300
newsletters when you're in it. 
You know, there is sort of and 

637
00:31:16,300 --> 00:31:19,700
it's much more like will upsell 
You from One crater to the 

638
00:31:19,700 --> 00:31:20,600
other. 
I mean, yeah. 

639
00:31:20,700 --> 00:31:22,500
You see some stack is a 
competitor. 

640
00:31:22,500 --> 00:31:25,500
I mean you're seeing more sort 
of we're going to sort of carve 

641
00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:30,200
off part of your thing and try. 
And I don't know, it's call ins 

642
00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:32,100
too small. 
But like David Sackett said 

643
00:31:32,100 --> 00:31:35,200
their podcast apps or I don't 
know what what do you think? 

644
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:37,800
Sort of the so it's 
marketization. 

645
00:31:37,800 --> 00:31:40,900
Yeah, it's the transition of a 
company from essentially being 

646
00:31:40,900 --> 00:31:45,900
like a SAS company, to being a 
Marketplace company, right? 

647
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:50,700
It's like, I'm an enablement 
tool for individual sellers to 

648
00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:55,200
sell things to their audiences, 
which is like a Shopify, but, 

649
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:57,200
like, look, what you would 
shopify's doing with the shop 

650
00:31:57,200 --> 00:31:59,000
app, right? 
It's they're like, well, now we 

651
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:01,500
have all these sellers and we 
have all these products. 

652
00:32:01,700 --> 00:32:04,200
We may as well build a 
Marketplace, and build, some 

653
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:07,000
demand, gen into our Engine for 
our own audiences, right? 

654
00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:08,700
Like that's Shopify. 
That's what they're doing with 

655
00:32:08,700 --> 00:32:11,200
the shop app and like sub stack 
is essentially doing a very 

656
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:13,000
similar thing. 
Just like look, our go-to-market

657
00:32:13,000 --> 00:32:15,100
like the, our wedge into the 
market, was solving this 

658
00:32:15,100 --> 00:32:17,100
newsletter problem, but now 
we're going to build a 

659
00:32:17,100 --> 00:32:20,500
Marketplace company that's going
to help creators find new 

660
00:32:20,500 --> 00:32:24,200
audiences and it's going to have
Network effects for sub stack. 

661
00:32:24,200 --> 00:32:26,700
I mean, I don't know this. 
I'm just, I'm guessing that 

662
00:32:26,700 --> 00:32:29,500
that's probably what it is and 
it helps them build a moat and 

663
00:32:29,500 --> 00:32:30,700
helps them build a fence 
ability. 

664
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,300
And so, I mean, I understand the
move I think it's like a very 

665
00:32:33,300 --> 00:32:36,200
smart move for the company. 
What about, what about? 

666
00:32:36,200 --> 00:32:37,500
Oh, let me get the audience 
involved here. 

667
00:32:37,600 --> 00:32:40,200
What about only fans? 
Yeah, I mean, what do you what 

668
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:41,600
do you for talking about porn 
now? 

669
00:32:41,600 --> 00:32:44,700
Everything now, you guys, not 
only fans, you guys have your 

670
00:32:44,700 --> 00:32:48,200
only fan setup. 
You don't have to tell me, I 

671
00:32:48,200 --> 00:32:51,900
already pay. 
I mean, like they, by the way, 

672
00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:53,800
charge less than you guys do 
right there fee. 

673
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,900
Is I think five percent know, 
they charge way more. 

674
00:32:56,900 --> 00:32:58,500
It's 20%. 
That's what sorry. 

675
00:32:58,600 --> 00:33:01,800
Yeah, I'm really off the beat 
well edit that out. 

676
00:33:02,100 --> 00:33:04,800
So, only fan storage is 20%, 
Which is slightly. 

677
00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:07,400
More than you guys charge. 
Oh, that's interesting. 

678
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:08,800
Yeah. 
Did they really charge 20%? 

679
00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,400
Yeah, which is, you know, 
strategically is it gunshot? 

680
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:13,000
They charge less? 
I thought I was like 5 years. 

681
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:14,800
I read that somewhere, but it 
was corrected. 

682
00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,200
Okay, interesting. 
So, you know, at that percentage

683
00:33:18,200 --> 00:33:19,900
level, you know, they're 
obviously going not 

684
00:33:19,900 --> 00:33:22,200
intentionally, they claim to 
they'll go after anyone. 

685
00:33:22,200 --> 00:33:26,200
But yeah, you know, 20% they 
feel like that's worth it for 

686
00:33:26,200 --> 00:33:28,900
their audiences, it just because
they're going after a group of 

687
00:33:28,900 --> 00:33:32,800
people largely, you know, sex 
workers who you guys make a 

688
00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,500
point of not allowing for on 
Patreon. 

689
00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:40,300
Yeah, gosh. 
I think I'm in like default 

690
00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:44,600
empathy mode or something right 
now, but I'm like trying to like

691
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:48,800
understand why they do that. 
And I actually do understand why

692
00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:54,000
they do that. 
Yeah, I think it's like look, 

693
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:56,100
these are this is high risk 
content. 

694
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:00,700
It's expensive to process the 
payment processing fees on that 

695
00:34:00,700 --> 00:34:03,900
type of content are much more 
expensive. 

696
00:34:05,300 --> 00:34:08,300
Now they have a great business 
with like awesome margins and 

697
00:34:08,300 --> 00:34:13,500
they're growing and it's that's 
awesome but it doesn't like I 

698
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,400
don't know that they could go 
much lower on that and still 

699
00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:20,600
have a healthy business and they
can trace your Capital. 

700
00:34:20,600 --> 00:34:23,199
It seems like yes, they've had 
it probably have Runway so to 

701
00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:24,699
speak. 
And again, I don't know, like 

702
00:34:24,699 --> 00:34:27,500
I'm not into tried personally. 
So I don't know any of these 

703
00:34:27,500 --> 00:34:30,000
things, I'm just talking out of 
my ass but like, yeah, I think 

704
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,800
at the end of the day, the risk 
is, why you don't allow why, why

705
00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,600
don't you allow that type of 
pants? 

706
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:38,400
So, When we make decisions like 
we've never allowed porn from 

707
00:34:38,400 --> 00:34:39,699
from day one. 
Uh-huh. 

708
00:34:40,000 --> 00:34:42,300
And it's like it's not a values 
decision. 

709
00:34:42,300 --> 00:34:44,300
Like we have no problem with 
pornography. 

710
00:34:44,300 --> 00:34:47,600
In fact, I'm really grateful 
that only fans exists as a 

711
00:34:47,607 --> 00:34:49,300
company. 
Like this is a category of 

712
00:34:49,300 --> 00:34:53,600
underserved people that need 
help and their industry fucking 

713
00:34:53,600 --> 00:34:56,300
sucks. 
And their industry is unsafe. 

714
00:34:56,500 --> 00:34:59,300
And it's abusive, right? 
And they need something like 

715
00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,500
this so that they can like shift
power and control. 

716
00:35:02,500 --> 00:35:05,000
From these institutions toward 
these individuals sex. 

717
00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:08,600
Workers who need this? 
I'm so glad that only fans 

718
00:35:08,600 --> 00:35:10,400
exist. 
Now it has problems of course 

719
00:35:10,400 --> 00:35:13,100
but like I don't know I'm 
hopeful that those problems will

720
00:35:13,107 --> 00:35:17,100
be solved in these people will 
be helped so why didn't we do 

721
00:35:17,100 --> 00:35:18,900
that? 
And it's a really good question.

722
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:23,700
We didn't do that because two 
reasons, not values-based 

723
00:35:23,700 --> 00:35:25,400
reasons, we don't have problems 
with porn. 

724
00:35:25,700 --> 00:35:29,000
It's that at the end of the day,
it's much higher processing 

725
00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:32,900
fees. 
It affects the like the type of 

726
00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:36,100
business that we can run and how
much we have to charge for it. 

727
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:38,100
We want to keep our prices super
low. 

728
00:35:38,100 --> 00:35:40,500
We don't want to take a ton of 
money for a taxi for like credit

729
00:35:40,500 --> 00:35:44,100
card companies, charge higher 
for products that are in that 

730
00:35:44,100 --> 00:35:45,900
Arena. 
So it's at the end of the day, 

731
00:35:45,900 --> 00:35:48,700
it's like category of 
processing, like what type of 

732
00:35:48,700 --> 00:35:52,200
like gambling pornography. 
Like there's a whole category of

733
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,700
the risks or yes, there's a 
whole category processing types.

734
00:35:54,700 --> 00:35:58,600
I have like a lot of chargeback 
fees and a lot of a lot of risk 

735
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,800
associated with the content and 
the payment processors have to 

736
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:04,000
pay higher fees themselves as a 
we have to pay our fees and 

737
00:36:04,000 --> 00:36:05,500
trickles down to the The 
Creator. 

738
00:36:05,500 --> 00:36:10,700
So that's reason number one. 
Reason number two is we call it 

739
00:36:10,700 --> 00:36:13,300
mission risk. 
It's like what we're going out 

740
00:36:13,300 --> 00:36:17,900
to do is help podcasters and 
video creators and webcomics and

741
00:36:17,908 --> 00:36:22,400
like all these creative people 
and the internet has a history 

742
00:36:22,400 --> 00:36:25,700
of like when you allow 
pornography on your website it 

743
00:36:25,700 --> 00:36:28,300
suddenly becomes a website for 
pornography, right? 

744
00:36:28,500 --> 00:36:31,700
And like it's not that I don't 
like like I'm fine with that 

745
00:36:31,700 --> 00:36:33,500
existing. 
It's just like, that's not the 

746
00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:35,400
company I want to build. 
I don't want to build A porn 

747
00:36:35,400 --> 00:36:36,700
company. 
I want to build a company that 

748
00:36:36,700 --> 00:36:38,800
helps progress a source of great
with only fans, right? 

749
00:36:38,800 --> 00:36:40,900
Because I was writing about them
in a time where they were really

750
00:36:40,900 --> 00:36:43,600
trying to spread the message to 
the media that were for a lot 

751
00:36:43,600 --> 00:36:45,900
more than that. 
We're just like in the same way.

752
00:36:45,900 --> 00:36:47,600
You guys are a platform for 
creators. 

753
00:36:47,600 --> 00:36:48,700
Yeah. 
But that's again totally 

754
00:36:48,700 --> 00:36:50,400
aspirational. 
That was never going to happen 

755
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:52,300
but they were never Beyonce 
name. 

756
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:53,900
Dropped it in the song like they
know. 

757
00:36:53,900 --> 00:36:56,600
I mean they yeah but look at the
context in which his name 

758
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:58,800
dropped its like I'm gonna start
an only. 

759
00:36:58,800 --> 00:37:02,200
It's like like it's like sexy. 
Well, the analogy that they were

760
00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:05,000
using at the time which was 
interesting and maybe not. 

761
00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:07,000
Turret was like Snapchat 
Snapchat. 

762
00:37:07,000 --> 00:37:09,100
Yeah was you know originally for
dick pics. 

763
00:37:09,100 --> 00:37:11,900
Yeah it was like what people 
assumed its use case one yes and

764
00:37:11,900 --> 00:37:14,200
then you know the argument that 
Evan and those guys were making 

765
00:37:14,200 --> 00:37:16,400
his life. 
Well no it's not and most people

766
00:37:16,400 --> 00:37:19,100
aren't using it for that but I 
think they sort of saw that 

767
00:37:19,100 --> 00:37:21,500
similar kind of transition like 
the dick pic at becomes the 

768
00:37:21,508 --> 00:37:22,800
multibillion-dollar. 
Right? 

769
00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:24,400
Messaging. 
App in the way that only fans, 

770
00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:27,400
it's just a platform, right? 
Why couldn't it work, right? 

771
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,200
And in this particular case, I 
think it I don't want to call it

772
00:37:31,200 --> 00:37:35,100
a lost cause but like past the 
certain thresholds You know, 

773
00:37:35,100 --> 00:37:38,700
even when like safer work quote 
unquote safer work, creators 

774
00:37:39,100 --> 00:37:41,900
launch on only fans. 
The message is that they get 

775
00:37:41,900 --> 00:37:44,500
from all the consumers on the 
website who have been trained to

776
00:37:44,500 --> 00:37:47,300
solicit for pornography, are 
sending them inbound messages 

777
00:37:47,300 --> 00:37:51,200
saying, like, show us your feet,
like, take off your shirt and 

778
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:54,600
these craters are like, know 
what that someone doing this, 

779
00:37:54,600 --> 00:37:55,600
right? 
And it like it's a 

780
00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:57,600
self-fulfilling prophecy to read
Comics. 

781
00:37:57,600 --> 00:37:59,500
You don't want to see my. 
Yeah exactly. 

782
00:37:59,600 --> 00:38:03,800
Yeah, but so that's why we made 
the decision that we made and 

783
00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:06,400
again It's not, it's not that 
like our hearts. 

784
00:38:06,400 --> 00:38:08,900
Don't go out to those people and
it's why I'm very grateful that 

785
00:38:08,900 --> 00:38:11,200
only fans exist. 
It's just not the mission of our

786
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,600
company. 
I wanted to ask the founders 

787
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:15,400
lever people for newcomer, get 
to see your feet. 

788
00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:20,800
You know, I wanted to ask sort 
of a, the higher tier. 

789
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:23,800
I mean a recurring theme is sort
of you're having empathy for 

790
00:38:23,800 --> 00:38:27,500
other like product companies. 
Obviously you're like a CEO now 

791
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:29,000
your Co you've been a CEO for a 
while. 

792
00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,600
You're CEO of a four billion 
dollar company. 

793
00:38:30,700 --> 00:38:33,700
Yeah, I mean used to be like a 
musician, right? 

794
00:38:33,700 --> 00:38:35,000
Where were you whistling? 
Music. 

795
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,800
Yeah, you can start your a lot 
with two music videos and we. 

796
00:38:37,800 --> 00:38:38,200
All right. 
Yeah. 

797
00:38:38,200 --> 00:38:40,200
All right. 
But like, I don't know. 

798
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,600
I'm curious like your own 
personal transformation. 

799
00:38:42,600 --> 00:38:44,300
Yeah. 
I like doing the business. 

800
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:47,200
Yeah. 
Big like, were you sort of much 

801
00:38:47,200 --> 00:38:51,000
more, skeptical of business? 
People back back. 

802
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,900
When you were mostly a musician 
or I, or were you always have 

803
00:38:54,900 --> 00:38:56,600
sort of? 
I was standing. 

804
00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:02,500
I was and I and not only 
skeptical, I was angry and I 

805
00:39:02,500 --> 00:39:04,500
still am I still am angry? 
I think. 

806
00:39:04,600 --> 00:39:08,800
A lot of companies. 
Make decisions that make me 

807
00:39:08,800 --> 00:39:11,200
angry. 
And maybe the difference now is 

808
00:39:11,200 --> 00:39:16,300
like, I understand why the 
decision was made, because I've 

809
00:39:16,300 --> 00:39:20,800
seen how this works, and I've 
seen like things that, like, I 

810
00:39:20,800 --> 00:39:22,600
just seen it like, oh, we have a
product team. 

811
00:39:22,600 --> 00:39:24,700
They focus on this Earth at 
that. 

812
00:39:24,700 --> 00:39:28,200
Yeah. 
And and and so the transition 

813
00:39:28,200 --> 00:39:35,800
has been, one of, it's been a 
humbling transition, like I This

814
00:39:35,800 --> 00:39:38,300
shit is hard. 
Like I have a lot of empathy for

815
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:41,600
product managers that YouTube 
like they're serving 2 billion. 

816
00:39:41,600 --> 00:39:43,900
People do not have empathy for 
you've been incredibly 

817
00:39:43,900 --> 00:39:45,300
empathetic this whole 
conversation. 

818
00:39:45,700 --> 00:39:48,100
Where did you go? 
That's fine. 

819
00:39:50,100 --> 00:39:53,200
No, that's not true. 
I mean, I do, but but also, like

820
00:39:53,300 --> 00:39:58,000
what is happening, is so fucked 
up and evil and atrocious and it

821
00:39:58,000 --> 00:40:00,200
makes me really angry. 
And I wouldn't describe my 

822
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:01,700
feelings doesn't pathetic for 
that. 

823
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,800
Well, actually be, I can, I can 
I can tie this back in because 

824
00:40:04,900 --> 00:40:06,900
there was a See a great article 
that came out the other day 

825
00:40:06,900 --> 00:40:10,100
about when all these Western 
companies cut off support. 

826
00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:13,200
Yeah, in Russia, you had, you 
know, a huge number of craters 

827
00:40:13,200 --> 00:40:16,000
on only fans in Russia, right. 
I had no ability to continue 

828
00:40:16,000 --> 00:40:19,700
their business, I mean, they're 
obviously a victim in a way of 

829
00:40:19,700 --> 00:40:23,000
policy on the part of a lot of 
mere Putin. 

830
00:40:23,200 --> 00:40:26,900
But what have you guys done 
anything in terms of your 

831
00:40:26,900 --> 00:40:29,500
creators in Russia? 
Do you guys feel the need to do 

832
00:40:29,500 --> 00:40:31,500
anything other than? 
Yeah, if you've done anything, I

833
00:40:31,508 --> 00:40:33,300
mean, do you feel responsible 
for them in any way? 

834
00:40:33,800 --> 00:40:37,000
So I mean, yeah. 
We've We, you know, that there's

835
00:40:37,000 --> 00:40:40,700
been a like, a task force at 
patreon. 

836
00:40:40,700 --> 00:40:43,400
That's been working on this for,
you know, weeks and actually 

837
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,600
shout out to some patreon 
teammates who are here, who have

838
00:40:46,600 --> 00:40:50,600
been working on that task force.
It's like a very difficult, very

839
00:40:51,100 --> 00:40:54,600
hard thing to be in the middle 
of and it's our first time as a 

840
00:40:54,607 --> 00:40:59,500
company like experiencing a 
global event like this, you 

841
00:40:59,500 --> 00:41:02,300
know, one thing that we did is 
we like waived fees for our 

842
00:41:02,300 --> 00:41:05,100
Ukrainian creators for the next 
three months, just as an effort 

843
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:08,300
to like help and send more money
to those craters and help them 

844
00:41:08,300 --> 00:41:10,600
get through this. 
Not that I'm any creators in 

845
00:41:10,600 --> 00:41:12,100
Ukraine. 
You guys, it's thousands, 

846
00:41:12,200 --> 00:41:15,900
thousands of of creators that 
Ukraine and like including like,

847
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,900
you know, like independent 
journalism that are like 

848
00:41:18,900 --> 00:41:23,700
reporting on the war and and 
that's important. 

849
00:41:23,800 --> 00:41:26,800
And so so yeah there's a team 
that's working as a team that's 

850
00:41:26,800 --> 00:41:29,100
working on, you know, 
misinformation campaigns and 

851
00:41:29,100 --> 00:41:31,600
trying to evaluate if anybody 
has, you know, but spreading 

852
00:41:31,600 --> 00:41:35,200
that on patreon it, did you cut 
off just brushing creators or 

853
00:41:35,600 --> 00:41:37,800
No. 
So actually a lot of that is 

854
00:41:37,800 --> 00:41:40,800
happening regardless of what 
we're doing, right? 

855
00:41:40,800 --> 00:41:44,900
So like a lot of the payment 
processing relationships and, 

856
00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:49,400
you know, Bank relationships are
just failing. 

857
00:41:49,400 --> 00:41:53,300
Now, regardless of any decisions
that patreon is making because 

858
00:41:53,300 --> 00:41:57,800
they are, you know, because of 
sanctions because of banks 

859
00:41:57,800 --> 00:42:00,000
pulling out because of 
processors pulling out. 

860
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,000
And so, you know, last month we 
saw a number of, of those 

861
00:42:03,000 --> 00:42:05,600
transactions fail and we're 
expecting even more. 

862
00:42:05,600 --> 00:42:09,300
More this next month because you
know, even more companies have 

863
00:42:09,300 --> 00:42:10,700
pulled out. 
Do you guys have creators in 

864
00:42:10,700 --> 00:42:12,100
Russia? 
Yeah I do. 

865
00:42:12,400 --> 00:42:13,900
Yeah. 
Had there been Payment 

866
00:42:13,900 --> 00:42:15,700
Processing that was going 
through I don't know if there 

867
00:42:15,700 --> 00:42:18,700
still are would you continue to 
offer service to them? 

868
00:42:18,900 --> 00:42:25,500
Yes we would and we are I don't 
think individual creators should

869
00:42:25,500 --> 00:42:30,700
have to pay for the misdeeds of 
their authoritarian leader. 

870
00:42:31,300 --> 00:42:32,900
I want to put that on Creative 
people. 

871
00:42:33,300 --> 00:42:38,600
They met They may disagree with 
the War, I don't want to punish 

872
00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:42,000
them for their geographic 
location and our team doesn't 

873
00:42:42,000 --> 00:42:44,200
want to do that either. 
Like we are a Creator first, I'm

874
00:42:44,200 --> 00:42:46,600
going to push back on that. 
And I'm very sympathetic to that

875
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,200
idea, but the pushback would 
just be, you know, it's a 

876
00:42:49,200 --> 00:42:53,700
western world like foreign 
policy sort of agenda item to 

877
00:42:53,700 --> 00:42:57,200
create as much trouble for 
Russia economically as possible.

878
00:42:57,500 --> 00:43:00,600
And that means yeah, if anybody 
is in, Russia's going to have a 

879
00:43:00,607 --> 00:43:04,100
hard time like you just don't 
want to be part of that sort of 

880
00:43:04,100 --> 00:43:08,600
like Crackdown. 
I mean, if there is a way we 

881
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,700
could punish Putin like great, 
right? 

882
00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:18,300
But like this, the version of 
this podcast in Russia, like 

883
00:43:18,300 --> 00:43:21,600
patreon, ceasing to support that
this is. 

884
00:43:21,600 --> 00:43:24,600
This podcast is is no. 
Yes, a clearly that would be a 

885
00:43:24,600 --> 00:43:26,400
very important podcast right 
now. 

886
00:43:26,400 --> 00:43:29,800
It but like you see the only 
voice of reason in Russia right 

887
00:43:29,800 --> 00:43:35,600
now you have cats like I believe
patreon empowers, the shift from

888
00:43:35,600 --> 00:43:39,800
companies and Regimes to 
individuals that is the like, 

889
00:43:39,900 --> 00:43:42,100
that is a core element of what 
we do. 

890
00:43:42,500 --> 00:43:47,700
So, so like that would send a 
terrible signal to the world and

891
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:52,200
it would be the wrong choice for
us to remove the livelihoods of 

892
00:43:52,200 --> 00:43:55,500
creative people in the middle of
like one of the most tumultuous 

893
00:43:55,500 --> 00:43:58,700
Global events. 
Again, I that's just we would, 

894
00:43:58,700 --> 00:44:01,400
we would never make that 
decision and actually, I realize

895
00:44:01,400 --> 00:44:03,600
it may be unpopular as a better 
than playing a moment 

896
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,200
controversial inside your 
company. 

897
00:44:05,500 --> 00:44:09,600
No, it was Because we are. 
It's such a Creator first 

898
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:12,100
culture. 
Now, I'll tell you, we did 

899
00:44:12,100 --> 00:44:17,700
debate, like, you know, suppose 
like Artie had had like 

900
00:44:17,700 --> 00:44:19,900
distribution or how to funding, 
you know. 

901
00:44:19,900 --> 00:44:22,400
Those are things that we would 
consider writing State back 

902
00:44:22,400 --> 00:44:27,100
media propaganda. 
Campaigns course that like 

903
00:44:27,100 --> 00:44:30,600
that's something that we have to
be very careful about but an 

904
00:44:30,600 --> 00:44:33,900
individual Creator who's making 
videos and making money. 

905
00:44:34,500 --> 00:44:36,400
That's our mission. 
That's what we exist to do. 

906
00:44:36,400 --> 00:44:39,300
And actually, Ali. 
I don't feel like being 

907
00:44:39,300 --> 00:44:41,800
apologetic about that eating 
like I'm very proud but that is 

908
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,800
our stance and I believe in my 
heart that it's the right stance

909
00:44:45,800 --> 00:44:51,300
for patreon to take shift, 
shift, yeah, lighter topic. 

910
00:44:51,300 --> 00:44:53,800
Yeah, that I do. 
I hey, it's very, I'm glad we 

911
00:44:53,800 --> 00:45:05,500
hit on that territory. 
So it's important to talk about 

912
00:45:05,500 --> 00:45:09,200
but nft Sort of touched on them 
before and I mean to some degree

913
00:45:09,200 --> 00:45:12,600
had ties to an earlier and of 
these in a way are like sort of 

914
00:45:12,600 --> 00:45:14,800
the crowdfunding, right thing or
like, right? 

915
00:45:14,800 --> 00:45:17,400
There's a lot of like projects 
that seem to get a lot of money 

916
00:45:17,800 --> 00:45:21,000
early before they've delivered, 
you know, it's like the board 

917
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,900
apes are popular but a lot of 
you talk to nft people. 

918
00:45:23,900 --> 00:45:25,100
Yeah. 
Why are they so valuable? 

919
00:45:25,100 --> 00:45:27,300
They're like, oh, that's going 
to be entering entree, into a 

920
00:45:27,300 --> 00:45:29,200
great community. 
And we're gonna have a lot of 

921
00:45:29,200 --> 00:45:30,600
things down the road, I don't 
know. 

922
00:45:30,900 --> 00:45:35,100
Do you does do n ft's enter to 
your Calculus at all? 

923
00:45:35,100 --> 00:45:37,900
And I'm sure curious. 
If you see See the same parallel

924
00:45:38,000 --> 00:45:40,600
to like the crowdfunding days 
with with some of the crypto 

925
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:44,200
projects. 
So, two thoughts on this first. 

926
00:45:44,800 --> 00:45:50,200
Anything that helps creative 
people make money is interesting

927
00:45:50,200 --> 00:45:56,300
to us and we are excited about 
that because I want creative 

928
00:45:56,300 --> 00:45:59,100
people to be compensated for 
their work. 

929
00:45:59,100 --> 00:46:02,800
Like, what is happening globally
right now is a labor problem. 

930
00:46:03,200 --> 00:46:06,600
Like, craters are legitimate 
members of the workforce. 

931
00:46:07,000 --> 00:46:09,700
And they're not being 
compensated for their 

932
00:46:09,700 --> 00:46:14,600
contribution to society. 
That's unacceptable in my mind. 

933
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:19,000
Anything that addresses that I'm
a, I want to learn about. 

934
00:46:19,000 --> 00:46:20,900
I want to follow, I want to 
understand. 

935
00:46:21,800 --> 00:46:24,000
And so of course we follow this 
whe under. 

936
00:46:24,000 --> 00:46:26,300
We try to understand, we try to 
learn about it, we want to be 

937
00:46:26,308 --> 00:46:29,600
very curious about these sorts 
of things that are emerging for 

938
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:32,500
craters. 
So that's the first thing. 

939
00:46:32,500 --> 00:46:36,500
Second thing is with regard to 
end of TS. 

940
00:46:38,200 --> 00:46:41,300
I'm I am excited about use 
cases. 

941
00:46:41,600 --> 00:46:48,000
I am excited about value to 
creators regardless of the 

942
00:46:48,000 --> 00:46:49,800
technology. 
Now, I think there are some 

943
00:46:49,800 --> 00:46:52,700
technologies that are exciting 
blockchain and at ease etcetera,

944
00:46:53,500 --> 00:46:56,800
but we wouldn't do something for
the sake of. 

945
00:46:57,000 --> 00:46:58,500
Well, this is an exciting 
technology. 

946
00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:00,900
Let's use it somehow. 
Let's leverage it, somehow 

947
00:47:01,000 --> 00:47:03,700
that's not how we build things. 
We build things by thinking what

948
00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:05,800
is important for Creative 
people? 

949
00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:07,800
What is valuable for Creative 
people. 

950
00:47:08,900 --> 00:47:10,700
How can we help creative people 
make money? 

951
00:47:11,700 --> 00:47:15,800
And so it may actually be that 
like some of those things are 

952
00:47:16,500 --> 00:47:18,500
things that we evaluate and 
think about over the coming 

953
00:47:18,500 --> 00:47:21,300
years. 
But we start with the business 

954
00:47:21,500 --> 00:47:24,500
use case for Creative people and
then we work backwards from 

955
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:27,700
there and art. 
Like would we consider things 

956
00:47:27,700 --> 00:47:30,600
like entities, I think I think 
actually right now we're so 

957
00:47:30,600 --> 00:47:33,900
focused on membership as a 
category, anything that isn't 

958
00:47:33,900 --> 00:47:35,800
membership. 
We're not really working on. 

959
00:47:36,300 --> 00:47:40,600
It's possible that something 
like And ftes or, or not even 

960
00:47:40,600 --> 00:47:43,400
calling it an EFT. 
He's like, scarcity, I think is 

961
00:47:43,400 --> 00:47:46,900
an interesting Concept in the 
day and age of digital Goods. 

962
00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:49,800
But even a more interesting 
concept is the idea of access. 

963
00:47:50,100 --> 00:47:52,500
And so it's interesting to us is
like some people are using n FTS

964
00:47:52,500 --> 00:47:54,100
to say. 
Like, if you have this nft, you 

965
00:47:54,100 --> 00:47:56,600
get into my Discord. 
That's really interesting. 

966
00:47:56,600 --> 00:47:59,500
It's like it's not even about 
money that points about access. 

967
00:47:59,500 --> 00:48:02,200
It's about because you have 
people working on that because I

968
00:48:02,200 --> 00:48:04,400
mean you could see the 
membership model to my Discord. 

969
00:48:04,400 --> 00:48:06,800
That's a big perk. 
That's a that's a very big part.

970
00:48:06,800 --> 00:48:08,900
That's the thing you guys do a 
lot of what But had a greater 

971
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:11,000
that's what I mean by like 
benefits, right? 

972
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:14,100
That's less about the financing 
mechanism, then arises benefit. 

973
00:48:14,100 --> 00:48:16,700
So say I want to discard with 
only like 100 people. 

974
00:48:16,700 --> 00:48:20,100
Yeah, then I could sell if it 
sells to somebody else, right? 

975
00:48:20,500 --> 00:48:23,800
I get like a cut of maybe the 
transaction, but it also means 

976
00:48:23,800 --> 00:48:26,000
that the market in some ways 
going to solve. 

977
00:48:26,500 --> 00:48:29,200
I mean, you're then only going 
to get your hundred richest 

978
00:48:29,200 --> 00:48:33,800
fans, but I don't know yet. 
Is that so okay, so I think 

979
00:48:33,800 --> 00:48:38,400
there's I think there's like 
three pieces of value to end of 

980
00:48:38,400 --> 00:48:42,100
T's right now and I think there 
will be many more that emerge 

981
00:48:42,300 --> 00:48:47,400
but the three pieces of value 
think first is like, access 

982
00:48:47,500 --> 00:48:50,400
people are using that as access 
that is interesting. 

983
00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:55,600
The second is like monetization 
of digital assets that is also 

984
00:48:55,900 --> 00:48:57,400
interesting for like creative 
people. 

985
00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:01,200
It helps them sell a thing. 
And then I think the third is, I

986
00:49:01,200 --> 00:49:03,400
know, they're not technically 
Securities, although, maybe that

987
00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:09,100
changes under Biden. 
Given the - order, but it is, it

988
00:49:09,100 --> 00:49:12,600
is an Essence, behave starting 
to behave like a security and 

989
00:49:12,600 --> 00:49:14,500
that it is something that can 
grow in value. 

990
00:49:14,500 --> 00:49:18,000
Over time, you are almost 
becoming an equity holder in an,

991
00:49:18,000 --> 00:49:20,600
in an asset. 
I mean, you are becoming a 

992
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:23,500
holder of an asset that that can
grow in value. 

993
00:49:25,000 --> 00:49:26,800
And all of those use cases are 
interesting. 

994
00:49:26,900 --> 00:49:29,200
They're not patreons focus. 
They're not things that we're 

995
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:30,800
building into our product but 
they are. 

996
00:49:30,800 --> 00:49:34,400
Do you have some person? 
Where are you working on this or

997
00:49:34,400 --> 00:49:37,300
so? 
I realize it probably sounds 

998
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:40,700
like I'm being very vague. 
I'm being vague because how we 

999
00:49:40,700 --> 00:49:43,900
build things, how we built 
things that the company is not 

1000
00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:46,600
starting with a technology. 
It's starting with use cases. 

1001
00:49:46,600 --> 00:49:49,900
So, so when we hire people and 
think about these sorts of 

1002
00:49:49,900 --> 00:49:51,500
problems, we're going to hire 
people. 

1003
00:49:51,500 --> 00:49:55,100
And the charter will be give 
craters, leverage and control 

1004
00:49:56,000 --> 00:49:59,000
the charter of the team will be.
How do we, how do we give 

1005
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,000
craters? 
The ability to sell things to 

1006
00:50:01,000 --> 00:50:02,900
their fans? 
How do we give craters the 

1007
00:50:02,900 --> 00:50:05,100
ability to engage in digital 
Commerce? 

1008
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:08,400
So how do we give craters the 
ability to own the relationship 

1009
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,600
with their members? 
Now the team may or may not 

1010
00:50:10,600 --> 00:50:13,900
employ NFC technology or 
blockchain technology as they're

1011
00:50:13,900 --> 00:50:17,700
like building those things but 
we don't start with this is our 

1012
00:50:17,700 --> 00:50:20,200
Block Chain team, okay? 
Team figure out how to use 

1013
00:50:20,200 --> 00:50:23,900
blockchain, you know we can be 
in Tech world where they're 

1014
00:50:23,900 --> 00:50:25,900
like, why not? 
And then ft but there is yeah 

1015
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:28,300
they're like Gamers. 
Who is really repressed? 

1016
00:50:28,300 --> 00:50:30,500
Oh they're definitely start off 
a whole like, you know, arm of 

1017
00:50:30,500 --> 00:50:32,600
the company, doing Lyra like 
Facebook did, right? 

1018
00:50:32,600 --> 00:50:37,300
I mean, that's yeah. 
I mean So that's vase Lira Lira,

1019
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:41,300
right? 
Libra Libra, fuck movie and then

1020
00:50:41,300 --> 00:50:43,500
it got shot. 
But I'm just saying, there's 

1021
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:46,100
definitely a set of people would
also be very angry if it says 

1022
00:50:46,200 --> 00:50:48,400
here at the Italian current. 
Yeah. 

1023
00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,700
Right. 
Which would be a great nft. 

1024
00:50:50,700 --> 00:50:53,000
That's like the opposite of view
on any entity. 

1025
00:50:53,000 --> 00:50:56,500
Crippling personally, I don't 
really I don't want to have 

1026
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:57,400
teeth. 
Yeah. 

1027
00:50:58,200 --> 00:50:59,600
Sorry I got us off track with 
this. 

1028
00:50:59,600 --> 00:51:01,100
What? 
Yeah, I wish I was more of an 

1029
00:51:01,100 --> 00:51:03,600
observation that there. 
It's not like there's a total, 

1030
00:51:03,600 --> 00:51:07,200
there is like a very rabid. 
Crypto Pro camp, but then, I 

1031
00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,900
mean, you have comic book 
artists and game developers. 

1032
00:51:09,900 --> 00:51:13,400
Like, those types of people have
fans that might be very angry at

1033
00:51:13,400 --> 00:51:15,600
patreon. 
If you were to sort of dip your 

1034
00:51:15,600 --> 00:51:19,000
toe, in those Waters. 
Yeah, there are. 

1035
00:51:19,200 --> 00:51:25,000
And and, and like, even like I 
did a podcast, I don't know, 12,

1036
00:51:25,600 --> 00:51:31,000
like three months ago or so, And
I just talked about and ft's, 

1037
00:51:31,000 --> 00:51:33,900
like, all I do is talk about 
Nazis and I didn't even talk 

1038
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:35,500
about drove out. 
The value of n of t, i do. 

1039
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:40,100
I asked an investor about NF T's
on the podcast. 

1040
00:51:40,100 --> 00:51:42,500
I didn't even talk about them 
and it, you know, there's 

1041
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:45,300
speculation and concern, along 
lot of brothers, I've even 

1042
00:51:45,300 --> 00:51:47,600
realize it. 
So you've got in the heat. 

1043
00:51:47,600 --> 00:51:50,100
Yeah, so already, we were yeah, 
of course. 

1044
00:51:50,200 --> 00:51:52,300
Yeah. 
I mean it's yeah, we've only got

1045
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:54,000
a couple minutes left, I think. 
Yeah. 

1046
00:51:54,400 --> 00:51:56,900
So I want to get to the maybe 
like a couple last topics before

1047
00:51:57,300 --> 00:51:58,800
we can turn it. 
Audience, if anybody here has 

1048
00:51:58,800 --> 00:52:01,000
some questions too. 
But I want to talk about the 

1049
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:02,900
only thing that Eric and I 
actually care about which is 

1050
00:52:02,900 --> 00:52:05,300
journalists greater. 
That's right. 

1051
00:52:05,300 --> 00:52:08,000
Yeah, we waited till the end, 
our budget, we're like several 

1052
00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:11,100
weeks into this endless cycle 
about whether journalists are 

1053
00:52:11,100 --> 00:52:13,100
Brands and whether journalists 
are creators. 

1054
00:52:13,300 --> 00:52:14,900
Now, you know, what about 
Taylor? 

1055
00:52:14,900 --> 00:52:18,200
The rent in, get her to engage 
with you on Twitter honor, the 

1056
00:52:18,207 --> 00:52:22,400
topic, the broader topic, we 
render wait, you said whether 

1057
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,600
crate, whether journalist Our 
Brands or create, these are very

1058
00:52:25,600 --> 00:52:26,900
small. 
You probably don't have to 

1059
00:52:26,908 --> 00:52:30,900
follow this, but Taylor Lorenz 
basically said my name's, all 

1060
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:34,000
right, but she said that you're 
a lesser Brands and then a bunch

1061
00:52:34,000 --> 00:52:35,600
of old schools are like White 
House. 

1062
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:39,200
Maggie Haberman to the world, 
really like push back on it and 

1063
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,100
was like you know, because they 
just don't want to think of 

1064
00:52:41,100 --> 00:52:45,700
themselves as a brand because it
sounds very like Creator. 

1065
00:52:45,900 --> 00:52:48,400
I don't know. 
It's just such a like it's a 

1066
00:52:48,408 --> 00:52:51,500
Flashpoint word. 
So that's that sort of the fight

1067
00:52:51,500 --> 00:52:53,900
that's happening. 
Sort of in on the journalism 

1068
00:52:53,900 --> 00:52:55,700
Twitter Wars at the moment 
relates. 

1069
00:52:55,700 --> 00:52:57,700
Very much to where you came from
and the hole. 

1070
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:00,500
Greater economy because it's 
this question of like, do we 

1071
00:53:00,500 --> 00:53:03,100
exist as employees as part of 
larger? 

1072
00:53:03,100 --> 00:53:04,600
Institutions, do we work for 
them? 

1073
00:53:04,600 --> 00:53:07,400
Or can we work this? 
Quasi independently of it? 

1074
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:11,300
That gives us more job security 
or leverage that if we want to 

1075
00:53:11,300 --> 00:53:15,500
go off on our own or or create 
some some kind of income that 

1076
00:53:15,500 --> 00:53:19,500
exists Beyond just the brand of 
the New York Times or the post 

1077
00:53:19,500 --> 00:53:25,700
or Insider, okay? 
Super interesting concept. 

1078
00:53:27,300 --> 00:53:32,400
So A couple thoughts on that 
there, I hear kind of to two 

1079
00:53:32,400 --> 00:53:34,800
issues there. 
The first is like can 

1080
00:53:34,800 --> 00:53:40,500
journalists develop independent 
followings and of course option,

1081
00:53:40,500 --> 00:53:43,000
right? 
Obviously do journalists need to

1082
00:53:43,008 --> 00:53:45,500
be a part of larger institutions
and Leverage. 

1083
00:53:45,500 --> 00:53:50,200
The the reach from those 
institutions historical, reach 

1084
00:53:50,400 --> 00:53:55,700
know obviously that is changing 
but the more interesting part of

1085
00:53:55,700 --> 00:53:59,000
I think what you what you just 
said is like The distinguishing 

1086
00:53:59,000 --> 00:54:03,300
characteristics between this 
concept of a brand and the 

1087
00:54:03,308 --> 00:54:05,300
concept of a Creator. 
Exactly. 

1088
00:54:05,400 --> 00:54:08,900
And what I would argue is that 
those are very fucking different

1089
00:54:08,900 --> 00:54:14,800
things, very different. 
A brand is consistent. 

1090
00:54:15,000 --> 00:54:20,900
It has Brand values. 
It builds trust, it has decks of

1091
00:54:20,900 --> 00:54:24,600
like its style and it's voice 
and what it sounds like and if 

1092
00:54:24,600 --> 00:54:28,200
it were a person, what kind of 
genes would it wear like That's 

1093
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:32,400
what brands are brands are not 
human beings. 

1094
00:54:33,300 --> 00:54:34,700
They're not great. 
I love this. 

1095
00:54:34,700 --> 00:54:39,100
Yeah, like a journalist creators
are fucking people. 

1096
00:54:39,300 --> 00:54:43,000
They're inconsistent, they're 
human, they're beautiful, 

1097
00:54:43,000 --> 00:54:45,900
they're frail, they're smart, 
they're stupid, they're 

1098
00:54:45,900 --> 00:54:49,800
strategic, they are impulsive. 
They're human beings. 

1099
00:54:50,100 --> 00:54:54,100
And I think what one problem 
that I think is a pretty big 

1100
00:54:54,100 --> 00:54:57,800
problem is, we're all trying to 
behave. 

1101
00:54:57,900 --> 00:55:03,100
Like Brands today and brands are
corporations, like, we don't 

1102
00:55:03,100 --> 00:55:05,700
have to be marketing, France. 
Yes, it's crazy to me. 

1103
00:55:05,700 --> 00:55:08,300
How much that is infected normal
conversation? 

1104
00:55:08,300 --> 00:55:09,900
I mean, I guess I'm a tune to it
because I've written about 

1105
00:55:09,900 --> 00:55:12,700
advertising, it does not need to
be a thing that regular people 

1106
00:55:12,700 --> 00:55:14,000
talk about know. 
It's a thing. 

1107
00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:16,000
You used to sell jeans? 
Yes. 

1108
00:55:16,100 --> 00:55:20,800
Yeah, and it also frankly, it's 
only we're content by the way, 

1109
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,500
it's not yet. 
It's a terrible content is not 

1110
00:55:23,500 --> 00:55:26,700
life, right? 
You know, but but we are, it's 

1111
00:55:26,700 --> 00:55:30,600
ineffective. 
Brands have lower trust than 

1112
00:55:30,600 --> 00:55:33,600
they've had in many many years 
except for the people that liked

1113
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:36,200
it. 
What do you mean by that? 

1114
00:55:36,200 --> 00:55:38,500
Well, I mean, like, the people 
that ascribe themselves to a 

1115
00:55:38,500 --> 00:55:43,100
specific brand, they trusted 
another, I would argue there are

1116
00:55:43,100 --> 00:55:46,100
fewer people who do that now. 
Like, if you look at consumer 

1117
00:55:46,100 --> 00:55:49,900
trust, it's been dropping for a 
long time. 

1118
00:55:50,200 --> 00:55:54,300
And then, you have to ask, why 
are we all trying to behave like

1119
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:58,300
Brands if brands are losing 
trust and mass right now? 

1120
00:55:58,300 --> 00:56:00,700
Like I think about identity, I 
think people have chosen to 

1121
00:56:00,700 --> 00:56:03,100
identify the specific brand not 
brand, right? 

1122
00:56:03,100 --> 00:56:05,100
Like identity is personal, it's 
human. 

1123
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:09,100
But you could draw a distinction
between like authenticity and 

1124
00:56:09,100 --> 00:56:12,000
like intentionality or something
with intentionality. 

1125
00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:16,300
Yes being closer to a brand and 
I don't know, I run a media 

1126
00:56:16,300 --> 00:56:18,800
company there. 
Like some days I'm like 

1127
00:56:19,000 --> 00:56:20,700
depressed. 
I'm like I don't know what I'm 

1128
00:56:20,700 --> 00:56:23,000
supposed to write. 
I don't always just like send 

1129
00:56:23,000 --> 00:56:25,700
that out as an email. 
I like think like oh what a my 

1130
00:56:25,700 --> 00:56:29,100
brand is professional. 
Yes to be the founders to you. 

1131
00:56:29,100 --> 00:56:31,600
You're so I do feel like there's
like a school of the Creator 

1132
00:56:31,600 --> 00:56:33,500
world that would say you should 
just be authentic. 

1133
00:56:33,600 --> 00:56:35,200
Look at the end of the day. 
It's up. 

1134
00:56:35,300 --> 00:56:37,200
To a crater to decide what they 
want to do. 

1135
00:56:37,200 --> 00:56:39,900
I think there is value to some 
craters building Brands. 

1136
00:56:39,900 --> 00:56:42,100
I'm not going to say every 
Creator should just fucking be 

1137
00:56:42,100 --> 00:56:45,000
themselves, no matter what, like
some people would be like, I 

1138
00:56:45,008 --> 00:56:48,100
don't want to follow the person.
I want to follow this thing. 

1139
00:56:48,100 --> 00:56:50,400
That is exciting about them. 
That's like, something that 

1140
00:56:50,400 --> 00:56:53,700
would be, you know, on the 
interest graph as opposed to 

1141
00:56:53,700 --> 00:56:57,900
like a, you know, friends. 
But I would argue that like, for

1142
00:56:57,900 --> 00:57:03,600
me my favorite artists, like my 
favorite artists are the people 

1143
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:07,800
who are unabashedly. 
It's all of the good, all of the

1144
00:57:07,800 --> 00:57:11,200
bad, all of the dark, all of the
pessimism, and all of the 

1145
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:13,300
optimism. 
All at once when you watch a 

1146
00:57:13,300 --> 00:57:18,700
prince music video, that fucking
guy is just himself, no matter 

1147
00:57:18,700 --> 00:57:22,800
what, and I don't want him to 
behave like Walmart. 

1148
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:26,900
I want him to be Prince and like
my favorite creators. 

1149
00:57:27,100 --> 00:57:31,700
I want them to be themselves and
I want them to feel human and I 

1150
00:57:31,700 --> 00:57:35,200
want them to not feel trapped by
their brand values. 

1151
00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:39,200
So like I did get some mistake 
for everybody to think I need a 

1152
00:57:39,200 --> 00:57:41,800
personal brand. 
I need a Creator Brent, like 

1153
00:57:42,100 --> 00:57:45,000
just be yourself but it's fun. 
I think that's that's a great 

1154
00:57:45,000 --> 00:57:46,100
and why? 
I think I okay. 

1155
00:57:46,100 --> 00:57:47,100
All right. 
Thank you. 

1156
00:57:47,100 --> 00:57:50,000
Let's get a round of applause. 
Thank you very much Jack for 

1157
00:57:50,000 --> 00:57:52,100
coming. 
Thank you for all listening to 

1158
00:57:52,100 --> 00:57:53,700
us. 
We really appreciate it. 

1159
00:57:54,300 --> 00:57:57,800
That was dead cat. 
You can check out our podcast. 

1160
00:57:57,800 --> 00:57:59,700
It's distribute on the like And 
subscribe. 

1161
00:57:59,700 --> 00:58:02,100
We're Creator us. 
I wouldn't say we're a brand 

1162
00:58:02,100 --> 00:58:04,900
after that speaketh, but I do 
know I'm like, no. 

1163
00:58:05,400 --> 00:58:09,000
Not a brand-new monetize Buddha.
No, it's not, sorry, it's okay 

1164
00:58:09,000 --> 00:58:11,300
to be a brand. 
I think some people need Brands 

1165
00:58:11,300 --> 00:58:13,700
because they're following the 
thing that the brand cares 

1166
00:58:13,700 --> 00:58:14,800
about. 
That's totally legit. 

1167
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:19,300
Have you want to get it? 
Discusses, I have a lot of 30 

1168
00:58:19,300 --> 00:58:20,400
minutes. 
It's gonna be fun. 

1169
00:58:20,400 --> 00:58:23,000
We're gonna have buzzers, we're 
going to be seized testing their

1170
00:58:23,000 --> 00:58:25,100
knowledge about startups and 
Venture Capital. 

1171
00:58:25,700 --> 00:58:27,900
So stick around. 
Thanks buddy. 

1172
00:58:28,000 --> 00:58:34,500
You guys later. 
So what comes Sally? 

1173
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,900
Goodbye, goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, 

1174
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:45,900
goodbye. 
Goodbye. 

1175
00:58:41,600 --> 00:58:44,900
Goodbye, goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, 

1176
00:58:45,000 --> 00:58:45,900
goodbye. 
Goodbye.