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Welcome silicon Sally. 
We've been had welcome to Jad 

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Cat episode about how Sam 
Venkman freed fooled us all 

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Trick the world. 
The ultimate con. 

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It's been the craziest story in 
Tech. 

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Like, I don't know, I think 
since, I mean, I covered Uber so

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closely, but I think this is 
crazy. 

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I mean, in terms of 0 to 100 
this, Is the biggest scam CEO 

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story. 
Since we've started covering 

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Tech design, we disagree with 
that. 

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Well, first of all, I would say 
100 to 0, not 0, to 100. 

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And, and to go full Bill Simmons
on this here. 

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I would say we're looking at, 
maybe what is one of the 

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craziest weeks in VC like Tech 
History? 

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Like, I think this got a rank up
there in terms of one of the 

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most just like astonishing story
lines, hilarious characters, 

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being, you know, brought up to 
the This is got a rank up. 

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There's got to be top five. 
Did I introduce Our Guest? 

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We have teddy slavery early. 
I think we just will just want 

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to jump in people. 
Figure it out, figure it out, 

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halfway through. 
Its got the fedayeen here, 

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Teddy's life or you can't see 
the video here but he is he's 

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looking like Yasser. 
Arafat his prime. 

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I'm pretty sick, daddy. 
We've called you the ask me off 

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whisper before, you know now, 
Alex? 

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Yeah, I've gotten a few texts 
from people who are like, sorry 

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for your loss. 
Such a good story. 

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Or, like, I think is reporters 
always. 

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I love, you know, maybe 
consciously or unconsciously 

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like I'm betting on storylines, 
right? 

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Right people you think are 
interesting and obviously Sam is

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still interesting for other 
reasons. 

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Very interesting, I would have 
more interesting but however 

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I've gotten a few messages from 
people that are like suggest 

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that you know, Odin better for 
you know my career if he was 

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exploring the read between the 
lines for the listener a little 

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bit, I mean you in particular 
cover sort of philanthropy and 

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wealth and this is a guy who is 
doing In the most interesting 

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stuff. 
I mean, funneling tons of money 

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into effective altruism using as
well, swearing. 

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He was going to give it all 
away. 

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And so if you cover the 
philanthropy wealth beat, and 

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you have this guy who's pretty 
open about it, creative about 

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it. 
I mean, it's just the story that

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keeps on giving, I mean, that's 
what you're saying. 

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Yeah. 
Yeah, I mean, you know, look, I 

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mean, he shot out of a cannon. 
I think I do think it was 0 to 

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100, 100 100 0. 
I mean, he is someone who I 

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first talked to Sam and like 
September 20 20 was off the 

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Record but it was based 
sandwich, starting to do more 

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and more political donations. 
And at that point, like no one 

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knew who he was. 
This is not a brag. 

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It's like a point about like, 
the speed here and I stand back.

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Yeah, well on me. 
Nobody even realize until 

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reading some of the stories that
FTX is. 

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Only a three year old company. 
Like this motherfuckers only 

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been on the scene since like the
last year's of the Trump 

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presidency. 
It's like this guy's been like 

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hanging around the hoop for a 
long time and finally had his 

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moment. 
Sure, he fucking came out of 

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nowhere. 
I mean, I'm like, yeah, I agree 

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with you 100 0 to 100 and then 
100 is 0. 

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But like that progression is 
basically a super car that got 

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200 miles per hour and then 
crashed into a cliff, right? 

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I mean, glass we guide coffee 
with someone who is sort of in 

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his orbit and it was like a 
totally normal conversation. 

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I think I said something along 
the lines of like yeah I'm not 

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one of them just about 
interested in the story. 

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Any more like you know, I'm 
covering? 

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You know, I'm interested in 
Peter teal stuff and other 

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characters like Didn't you guys 
stop reading like the sandbank 

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been freed profiles like God six
months ago. 

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I am so I never wrote one, you 
know. 

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Yeah. 
How long before he was flooding 

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the zone for a while, right? 
He would appear at everything 

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like hilariously enough, he was 
just at the Wall Street, 

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journal's Tech conference, you 
know, he was being interviewed 

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by an editor over there. 
But that guy would not turn down

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a lot of interview requests and 
so he was playing this perfect 

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game with the media which was, 
you know, appearing as this 

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Accessible understandable 
familiar eventually figure 

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within a community that is often
the opposite of that. 

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And it was such brilliant 
presentation. 

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But look, there's so much to 
talk about with this but I feel 

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like we have to do like, a 
little. 

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Let me give the foot a little 
bit quick. 

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I'll do the quick footnotes in 
classic fashion, you know, at 

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four and a half minutes into the
episode whatever. 

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That's why I say don't even 
introduce the guests until like 

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20 minutes ago. 
Right? 

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Exactly leave. 
One out for we have a high 

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information audience. 
They know Teddy by voice and 

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they know Sam Baker fade because
I read every story. 

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Yeah. 
No, my initial right Sam, 

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bingaman free who are all going 
as p.f., you know, grows this 

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firm Alameda research which 
becomes like a major crypto 

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investor and then because of the
success of that firm, I mean he 

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and all this story will be 
scrutinized for probably like 

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decades at this point. 
So this is all based on sort of 

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the public narrative, but the 
story was that this is the guy 

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who figured out how to sort of 
connect, the there was always a 

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gap in the price of Bitcoin in 
Asia in the United States. 

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It's and he helped close that 
Gap and pricing. 

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He was an Army is an Arbitrage 
Trader and made a bunch of money

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on that his experiences ARB 
helped him to found ft x. 

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Which then became one of the 
largest exchanges for 

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cryptocurrencies outside. 
The United States, he ended up 

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raising two hundred ten million 
dollars from Sequoia the best 

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Venture Capital firm in the 
world. 

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He raised billions of dollars at
very high valuations. 

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I think he got up to thirty two 
billion dollars. 

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There's a hysterical story that 
Sequoia self. 

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Published by the ultimate piece 
of like propaganda. 

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That has them just like fawning 
over him and he's playing like, 

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legal Legends on the side, which
they don't even know at the time

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and like, somehow that spun into
a positive and the guy is like 

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we could sell bananas on FDX, we
could sell everything and you 

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know it's the total like we can 
build world so he builds up FDX,

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can I stop you for a second 
there? 

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Because I didn't read the 
article. 

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What does that mean self-publish
to they just put it on 

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Sequoia.com. 
Yeah. 

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Yeah it's like hired like so I 
think it was a magazine writer 

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but I mean it's a colorfully 
written magazine article. 

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It's Fawning. 
But so they basically just had 

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like the kind of played in a 16 
Yankees. 

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It was a go directing, it's the 
most it's now the most like, 

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high-profile instance of going 
directors, what people want they

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want, they don't want, they want
to cut us out of the loop. 

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They want to go straight to the 
consumer actually and is that, I

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mean, it shows exactly how every
action has equal and opposite 

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reaction in the, you know, you 
make a story so glowing that 

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then when something bad happens,
you look like an absolute fool 

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to the point that Sequoia took 
the magazine style profile down 

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Replaced it with like, it's 
letter to limited partners. 

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Basically apologize to get that.
Yeah, the same time, the article

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which the media doesn't do, you 
know, even a correction on you. 

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Try not to just delete things 
but they're screenshot everybody

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fucking. 
I'm sorry. 

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Sukhoi. 
This kind of intense your 

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integrity as a media outfit. 
I mean, I just think people are 

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not going to trust you anymore. 
I've just canceled my 

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subscription of Sequoia monthly.
All right. 

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That's a very disturbing back on
track. 

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So FDX seems like top crypto 
exchange as Teddy's going to 

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talk about Sam. 
Bregman freed. 

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I think it was the number two 
Democratic donor recently. 

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What's the number you? 
Yeah, it depends on your 

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definition is a top Democratic 
donors, though. 

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He also promised some money that
I think didn't come together. 

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Which I think we can get into, 
but then coin desk who did great

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reporting. 
And I think also some of these 

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like, you know, random Twitter 
accounts that I'm not even in 

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insert deep enough in crypto 
world to know about. 

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But, you know, people start to 
say something seems off with 

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Alameda has the investment arms.
Balance sheet. 

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It seems like they hold a lot of
FTX is made up currency which 

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super worried. 
And then basically, you know, 

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people start asking questions 
and all of a sudden it becomes 

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it seems the oh allegations. 
What people sort of think 

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happened is that xdx. 
Use customer money like billions

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of it to basically Shore, up 
Alameda has sort of failing 

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positions. 
And once you start, you know, 

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using customer money to, like, 
just gamble it away and try and 

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make up your losses. 
You know, that's how every big 

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scam comes undone and that's 
what happened to Sam bank 

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manfried. 
So. 

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Yeah, and that's happened. 
The last, like, few days. 

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I mean, and we basically find 
out for sure, because Sam 

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bregman freed says, we're going 
to get bought by, by Nance and 

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it's like clear that it's like a
fire sale by Nance's arrival, 

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Real Enemy of ft x and then, 
that doesn't even come together.

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And today, we're recording this 
on Friday, I think they filed 

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for bankruptcy. 
And yeah it seems like it'll 

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keep getting worse and he 
stepped down as CEO which was a 

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shocking turn of events here. 
The end and the guy they put in 

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charge is the guy who dealt with
enron's collapse. 

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Yeah. 
You see that? 

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Nice to have on your resume 
their, it's like, oh no, we've 

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gotten that. 
You brought in the Enron guy to 

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help check out the balance 
sheets, right? 

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The last Asia. 
I mean this is gone 2-0, right? 

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I know you initially said that I
was skeptical, but if you're 

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filing for chapter 11, you've 
basically assume that I think 

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this is how Sukhoi explaining to
their Partners. 

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We expect our position in FTX to
be worthless. 

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Oh yeah, I said I was going to 0
right away. 

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I don't know why you were 
skeptical of that. 

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Well because they had spun it. 
You're also the guy who thought 

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Blake Masters was going to win 
in Arizona so oh wow. 

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Yeah fine. 
Later in the episode on that 

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one. 
I'm glad we have teddy here for 

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that but but no here because I 
initially had read the spin that

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Sam brankwyn free did put out 
that this was just about ft 

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x.com. 
F DX, dot U, s-- is couldn't be 

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stronger. 
We're actually going to be, you 

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know, buying the naming rights 
to another Arena. 

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So we feel as good as we've ever
felt about that. 

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So I was like, oh, maybe you 
know, I just didn't know. 

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I assume that there is some 
Salvage will part of this 

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company but no, it's all gone. 
It's all flushed, down. 

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The toilet SPX basically walked 
into Sequoias office with his 

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fucking shorts and his slide. 
And as like, will you give me 

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any money to save this thing and
they're like we just rescinded 

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are glowing. 
So it seems like so quiet didn't

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know until really late. 
I mean, yeah, I wasn't, I wasn't

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asked you Eric to what extent, 
you know, since you reported the

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most on the investor reaction 
here like to what extent do you 

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buy? 
The spin that? 

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Like we had no idea versus you 
know? 

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Right now I buy it. 
I mean why. 

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So I was not unlike a formal 
board. 

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There's some reporting there was
like a board of Weird insiders, 

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but they're sort of like an 
advisory Council of investors. 

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But I mean, this Alfred Lynn, 
you know, the guy who invest in 

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doordash, and a board member of 
Airbnb, very successful VC often

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at the top of the Forbes, he was
the Midas list. 

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Number one, at one point, five 
ways, he's not a crypto expert 

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and he's like their main guy on 
F DX along with a growth 

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investor. 
And so I just don't know how 

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Savvy they were. 
And I do think you're sort of 

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relying on the statement, you 
know, if you don't get an 

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outside auditor they're relying 
on. 

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Of the honesty of of the 
company. 

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I mean, I think they look 
extremely bad for not knowing 

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00:10:31,100 --> 00:10:34,100
and every investor basically 
every other investors like well 

226
00:10:34,100 --> 00:10:36,700
Sequoia invested its this is a 
sure thing. 

227
00:10:36,700 --> 00:10:39,000
You know, I mean I literally 
have people admitting to me. 

228
00:10:39,000 --> 00:10:41,300
Yeah, we sort of outsourced, our
diligence to Sequoia on this 

229
00:10:41,300 --> 00:10:42,500
one. 
Like they're, I mean, they're 

230
00:10:42,500 --> 00:10:43,800
not even Heidi. 
I mean, it's, you know, 

231
00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:47,100
anonymously but they're not 
really hiding the like, well, we

232
00:10:47,100 --> 00:10:50,800
thought Sequoia and Sequoia in 
their letter to limited partners

233
00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:52,900
was like, yeah, we do diligence,
we do a lot of diligence. 

234
00:10:52,900 --> 00:10:55,500
I mean, they, they do see 
themselves as the firm. 

235
00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:58,000
This isn't quite and recent, 
It's like we take bets, you 

236
00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:00,800
know, but Andrews. 
No additional work required. 

237
00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,800
Andreessen Horowitz. 
Yeah, right Sequoia. 

238
00:11:04,400 --> 00:11:06,800
You know, did say, you know, 
we're in the business of like 

239
00:11:06,800 --> 00:11:11,200
Risk and and so, some have 
outside returns and some don't 

240
00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:12,700
have you ever seen a VC firm 
Daddy? 

241
00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:16,700
You Gonna actually out here and 
asking questions, but I have you

242
00:11:16,708 --> 00:11:18,800
ever seen a VC for? 
I'm genuinely curious because 

243
00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:21,500
Eric, you cover this world more 
closely than Tom. 

244
00:11:21,500 --> 00:11:24,100
Or I do like, have you ever seen
a VC firm Tweeter? 

245
00:11:24,200 --> 00:11:26,800
Frankly publicly release a 
letter to help ease. 

246
00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:28,800
Before, I've never seen that 
know. 

247
00:11:28,800 --> 00:11:31,100
I've never seen what I think 
just speaks to like and it came 

248
00:11:31,100 --> 00:11:33,200
out to these, right? 
I want some credit, I don't 

249
00:11:33,200 --> 00:11:33,800
know. 
Okay. 

250
00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:36,300
Certainly, I got a lot of those 
facts out before they did. 

251
00:11:36,300 --> 00:11:38,900
And wrote a very negative story 
about Sequoia and then they were

252
00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:41,800
doing my favorite part of the 
Sequoia letter was at the end. 

253
00:11:41,800 --> 00:11:43,900
They said, we look forward to 
backing csps. 

254
00:11:43,900 --> 00:11:47,600
Next venture, we're very excited
about what the future holds with

255
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:49,700
Sequoia has be. 
He's joking. 

256
00:11:50,100 --> 00:11:53,400
No, we're not. 
People were just believe that 

257
00:11:53,700 --> 00:11:56,700
that Andreessen with, you know, 
saddle up and like give them. 

258
00:11:56,900 --> 00:11:59,900
Of course, you know Andresen. 
I mean, the funny thing this is 

259
00:11:59,900 --> 00:12:02,700
sort of a side and then Teddy I 
want to ask you some questions, 

260
00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:06,200
but you know, Andreessen could 
invest because they were big in 

261
00:12:06,200 --> 00:12:10,400
coinbase anyway, but this is 
extremely validating to like 

262
00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:12,700
Marc Andreessen worldview, 
right? 

263
00:12:12,700 --> 00:12:15,700
Like SPF is like the perfect 
Democrat. 

264
00:12:15,700 --> 00:12:19,000
All the media loves him because 
he liked shits, aren't crypto. 

265
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:21,500
He's not really a True. 
Believer is like a money guy. 

266
00:12:21,800 --> 00:12:24,400
He's deep in Democratic 
politics, he has like this great

267
00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,500
philosophy of effective 
altruism. 

268
00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:30,900
He loves him so Teddy were you 
had or like I mean you're not 

269
00:12:30,900 --> 00:12:34,800
like a crypto reporter but like 
the, the media love this guy. 

270
00:12:34,900 --> 00:12:36,600
Hmm. 
What's your reaction to that? 

271
00:12:36,700 --> 00:12:40,200
No, I mean, look, there's an 
element of I guess I kind of 

272
00:12:40,208 --> 00:12:43,400
feel like maybe Sequoia does. 
The only difference is that I'm 

273
00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:45,400
not investing hundreds of 
millions of dollars into this, 

274
00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:47,700
which is like I'm not expert on 
crypto, right? 

275
00:12:47,700 --> 00:12:51,300
I mean Samuel legitimately was 
one of the, you know, five 

276
00:12:51,300 --> 00:12:54,600
biggest Democratic donors in the
country, you know, the lobbying 

277
00:12:54,600 --> 00:12:57,000
work queue is doing and the 
philanthropic work you He's 

278
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:59,300
doing we're genuinely 
newsworthy. 

279
00:13:00,200 --> 00:13:04,000
Like I mean I don't feel had. 
No I mean I feel like obviously 

280
00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:06,400
I feel had in the extent that 
like you know, the business 

281
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:09,600
venture of that that was 
propping up all the other work 

282
00:13:09,600 --> 00:13:13,600
he was doing, was clearly on 
ethical illegal, choose your 

283
00:13:13,800 --> 00:13:16,600
best word but what he was doing 
was 100% newsworthy. 

284
00:13:16,600 --> 00:13:18,800
Like, you know, he was 
headlining Congressional 

285
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,500
Retreats for Democrats and 
Republicans, you know, they 

286
00:13:21,500 --> 00:13:24,000
bought a townhouse in Capitol 
Hill and was like hosting. 

287
00:13:24,000 --> 00:13:25,800
Tons of, how do you legislators 
all the time? 

288
00:13:25,800 --> 00:13:28,000
Like but here's, here's my. 
Question, here's my push, back 

289
00:13:28,000 --> 00:13:30,800
to you on this Teddy because in 
one sense you are in the 

290
00:13:30,900 --> 00:13:33,800
business of explaining his 
philanthropic work, but you're 

291
00:13:33,800 --> 00:13:36,000
also in the business of profile 
in the guy in understanding 

292
00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:38,200
where he sits now. 
I understand you're not a crypto

293
00:13:38,200 --> 00:13:40,800
reporter so you wouldn't have 
had the sourcing or the 

294
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,300
attention to find out whether 
this was all built on a giant 

295
00:13:44,300 --> 00:13:47,800
over-leveraged house of cards. 
But in writing so much about the

296
00:13:47,800 --> 00:13:50,200
guy, you do sort of help build 
up his reputation. 

297
00:13:50,200 --> 00:13:53,300
You helped give him the kind of 
access to the world that he 

298
00:13:53,300 --> 00:13:56,600
wants to have access to. 
And do you not feel at least? 

299
00:13:56,900 --> 00:14:00,300
Partly responsible for helping 
to build up that reputation in a

300
00:14:00,300 --> 00:14:03,400
way that benefited him, even 
though it was also 

301
00:14:03,400 --> 00:14:05,100
foundationally week. 
Sure. 

302
00:14:05,100 --> 00:14:07,600
But that's like, that's the way 
the world Works, which is like, 

303
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:09,600
you know, when Pete Buddha judge
right? 

304
00:14:09,600 --> 00:14:13,000
Does a bajillion interviews and 
is genuinely interesting, does 

305
00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:15,200
that help people to judge in the
Democratic primary? 

306
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:17,300
Of course it does. 
But like, I don't think the role

307
00:14:17,300 --> 00:14:20,800
of a journalist is to say no to 
good interviews. 

308
00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:23,300
Like what am I? 
I don't I don't I don't think 

309
00:14:23,300 --> 00:14:24,800
about this. 
I guess I guess. 

310
00:14:24,800 --> 00:14:26,800
I don't know what you guys I 
know journals going to scream. 

311
00:14:27,000 --> 00:14:31,000
About this. 
I don't think that much about 

312
00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,300
the consequences of my reporting
and I say that not to be 

313
00:14:35,300 --> 00:14:37,500
callous, but I like like, 
sometimes you guys ever 

314
00:14:37,500 --> 00:14:40,300
encounter this with the with the
source or the story or a company

315
00:14:40,300 --> 00:14:43,200
is like, oh but if you write 
about our fundraise, it's going 

316
00:14:43,200 --> 00:14:45,300
to empower all my fun. 
Oh yeah, I don't give a shit. 

317
00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:47,700
So no, of course, I know it's my
fundraise. 

318
00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,500
So whatever. 
But like, but I, but this is 

319
00:14:49,500 --> 00:14:52,800
this like a more generalized 
point that like, I feel like if 

320
00:14:52,800 --> 00:14:56,700
sandbag manfried is a 
interesting juicy story then, 

321
00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:00,600
Like that's kind of where my 
right like field of vision kind 

322
00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:03,500
of Lile bit okay. 
That's does that like legitimize

323
00:15:03,500 --> 00:15:05,700
him? 
Like Daddy is not whatever Teddy

324
00:15:05,700 --> 00:15:07,300
is not. 
I mean you're writing for 

325
00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:11,300
insiders and there's no question
that like for insiders and 

326
00:15:11,300 --> 00:15:14,900
donors like this guy was like a 
huge player and that he's he's 

327
00:15:14,900 --> 00:15:16,700
propping up all these 
organizations. 

328
00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,600
I mean, I, I would blame a 
little bit more not to let our 

329
00:15:19,600 --> 00:15:22,300
friend off the hook but like, 
some of the magazine, articles 

330
00:15:22,300 --> 00:15:24,800
were people really spent time 
with the guy right there. 

331
00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,900
I mean, that right there, that's
the Because if you're going to 

332
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,800
be profile, the guy, I don't 
know anybody, I don't know. 

333
00:15:30,800 --> 00:15:32,600
And it looks like, I don't know 
if you ever did like a full-on 

334
00:15:32,600 --> 00:15:34,900
profile of SPF, and by the way, 
I don't want to pick on you. 

335
00:15:34,900 --> 00:15:37,600
I'm really glad you came on. 
You're obviously an expert on 

336
00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:41,100
SPF in a very specific part of 
his life that turned out to be, 

337
00:15:41,100 --> 00:15:44,000
you know, not what it really, 
you know, he presented it as. 

338
00:15:44,000 --> 00:15:48,300
But if you are profiling, the 
guy, you have a responsibility 

339
00:15:48,300 --> 00:15:52,300
at least somewhat to raise 
questions about his validity as 

340
00:15:52,300 --> 00:15:54,900
a character and whether or not 
his business that he's built it 

341
00:15:54,900 --> 00:15:56,700
on is at least questionable, you
know? 

342
00:15:56,800 --> 00:15:59,100
No, I guess that was the 
shocking thing about this whole 

343
00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:02,200
episode to me was that you know 
in addition to him position 

344
00:16:02,200 --> 00:16:05,300
himself. 
So cleverly to the media, as, 

345
00:16:05,300 --> 00:16:08,200
you know, a very familiar face, 
he had kind of a Zuckerberg sort

346
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,600
of air about him, he was playing
through all the mainstream 

347
00:16:11,700 --> 00:16:13,700
channels in terms of donated 
Democrats. 

348
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:17,600
He also was coming up as a 
legitimate business person, and 

349
00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,200
there wasn't too many questions 
about the fact that he was going

350
00:16:20,200 --> 00:16:23,600
out and bailing out these shitty
crypto startups, which also, I 

351
00:16:23,600 --> 00:16:26,500
think helped feed into a 
presumption of stability on his 

352
00:16:26,500 --> 00:16:28,400
part. 
He must be part of a stable 

353
00:16:28,400 --> 00:16:30,200
business because he's buying out
the shitty businesses. 

354
00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,100
So he must be the good business 
so I guess. 

355
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:33,200
Yeah. 
Search you get some actual 

356
00:16:33,200 --> 00:16:36,400
question here is like, just 
should there have been more 

357
00:16:36,400 --> 00:16:40,600
questioning of just how stable 
he and FTX were, because I just 

358
00:16:40,600 --> 00:16:42,400
didn't see any of it. 
And that's why, you know, if 

359
00:16:42,400 --> 00:16:45,200
it's such a shock because if in 
the weeks leading up to this 

360
00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,000
announcement, you know, that 
this collapse there had been 

361
00:16:48,000 --> 00:16:50,900
whisperings in the mainstream, 
you know, present even just like

362
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:52,500
coin desk, which is just a week 
ago. 

363
00:16:52,800 --> 00:16:57,400
That there was a real question 
about how solid and And liquid 

364
00:16:57,400 --> 00:17:00,400
Miss business was, it would have
seemed a bit more reasonable 

365
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:02,000
when it happened. 
And instead of just felt like it

366
00:17:02,000 --> 00:17:04,800
came out of nowhere and I think 
to some degree that is a failing

367
00:17:04,800 --> 00:17:07,599
of the broader business, press 
that wrote so much about him and

368
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,400
never even raised the questions 
that as cryptos collapsing. 

369
00:17:10,500 --> 00:17:13,599
So to could this one solitary 
figure who is trying to position

370
00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,500
himself somewhat apart and yet 
clearly is tied up in all of 

371
00:17:16,500 --> 00:17:19,400
the, you know, fragility on the 
space look. 

372
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:22,700
I mean my knowledge of crypto or
of the Sam Empire, but from a 

373
00:17:22,708 --> 00:17:25,099
business point of view was like,
you know, I can write a sentence

374
00:17:25,099 --> 00:17:28,700
or two, you know, in the nook. 
After Orion Traders, but not to 

375
00:17:28,700 --> 00:17:30,900
pass the buck. 
But like, you're totally right 

376
00:17:30,900 --> 00:17:34,400
Tom, that I feel like there was 
like, zero reporting ever to 

377
00:17:34,400 --> 00:17:38,300
suggest that, like, you know, I 
feel like, even with like other 

378
00:17:38,300 --> 00:17:40,600
fintech companies, like, Robin 
Hood, you'd occasionally. 

379
00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,800
See like this, this is not a 
little bias of media. 

380
00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,200
This is the first time I'm 
really willing to agree with 

381
00:17:46,200 --> 00:17:48,200
people and I feel like people 
are hammering. 

382
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,500
This one, hard enough like I do 
think it's like he was a good 

383
00:17:51,500 --> 00:17:54,000
Democrat and not just that he 
was aligned with Democrats, but 

384
00:17:54,000 --> 00:17:57,400
he does the things that sort of 
the intelligence Gia wants like 

385
00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:00,500
he has sort of provocative you. 
And you think you think you 

386
00:18:00,508 --> 00:18:04,300
think that explicitly encouraged
reporters not to question the 

387
00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:04,900
business? 
Yeah. 

388
00:18:04,900 --> 00:18:09,200
And yes, yes, I definitely. 
I mean the China guy the by 

389
00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,100
Nance company and fucking Brian 
Armstrong. 

390
00:18:12,100 --> 00:18:14,700
The libertarian. 
Lex Luthor looking guy 

391
00:18:14,700 --> 00:18:17,500
definitely like this is Sam 
bregman. 

392
00:18:17,500 --> 00:18:21,000
Freed was what the media class 
like reporters are rooting for 

393
00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:24,900
him to succeed just like oh just
their their gut like their sense

394
00:18:24,900 --> 00:18:26,500
of who's like a believable 
person. 

395
00:18:26,500 --> 00:18:29,500
Like SPF is like our type of 
guy. 

396
00:18:29,500 --> 00:18:33,000
I mean it's just the reality I 
am including myself in this 

397
00:18:33,000 --> 00:18:35,000
critique. 
Yeah look I didn't write shit 

398
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,900
about him not that it was my 
beat but like I yes I think he 

399
00:18:37,900 --> 00:18:41,300
played on so many of the 
inherent unconscious biases, 

400
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:44,600
whatever term you want to use of
what we consider a legitimate 

401
00:18:44,600 --> 00:18:49,500
and stable business person is 
that people went to Stanford 

402
00:18:49,500 --> 00:18:53,000
they're like Professor types 
lawyers you know it's certainly 

403
00:18:53,000 --> 00:18:56,700
the effective altruism shit. 
All right he was a brilliant. 

404
00:18:56,800 --> 00:19:00,000
Formance, what would the 
contrast is Elizabeth Holmes? 

405
00:19:00,100 --> 00:19:04,200
Like there is some utility to 
the metaphor and total stops. 

406
00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:05,500
I'm not. 
So I want to, I want to break it

407
00:19:05,500 --> 00:19:09,400
down to what extent do you think
this is like, the Elizabeth home

408
00:19:09,400 --> 00:19:12,800
situation? 
Well, a little hard to see right

409
00:19:12,800 --> 00:19:17,300
now, Penny VCS, you know, that's
that's why I ever investors, 

410
00:19:17,300 --> 00:19:19,700
were worse. 
I mean, let me, let's see where 

411
00:19:19,700 --> 00:19:22,600
the dust settles yards or trip 
the legal questions, right? 

412
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:25,300
We're not at liking and legal 
accusations. 

413
00:19:25,300 --> 00:19:27,600
Yes, yes, you do. 
Two dead cat. 

414
00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:32,200
But yeah, I mean the homes 
narrative, right? 

415
00:19:32,200 --> 00:19:35,700
I think everyone would agree was
like fraud and was a level 

416
00:19:35,700 --> 00:19:41,100
Beyond you know your standard 
deception here like could be SPF

417
00:19:41,100 --> 00:19:46,900
storyline rival, that may be 
glowing magazine covers. 

418
00:19:46,900 --> 00:19:50,500
I think the reporters believed 
in SPF more than they believed 

419
00:19:50,500 --> 00:19:52,700
in Elizabeth Holmes, whereas 
Elizabeth Holmes did have the 

420
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:56,400
sort of we're rooting for the 
upstart woman Dynamic. 

421
00:19:56,400 --> 00:19:59,100
That's Awkward talk about but is
obviously true. 

422
00:19:59,100 --> 00:20:01,100
No it's true. 
I mean, Sam being a young white 

423
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:03,500
dude is definitely part of this 
mostly being written about by 

424
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:07,000
other young white dudes. 
I would say it's hard because 

425
00:20:07,300 --> 00:20:09,400
theranos was such an incredible 
story. 

426
00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:13,000
Because this was a hardware 
device when, which he was making

427
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:16,400
outlandish promises was was 
claiming Partnerships that 

428
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:18,700
didn't exist. 
I mean, the fraud went so deep 

429
00:20:18,700 --> 00:20:24,300
and was so tangible. 
Whereas with crypto really you 

430
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:26,600
know what happened here it 
sounds like and you tell me, 

431
00:20:26,800 --> 00:20:28,100
Eric bit. 
Like, you know, he was 

432
00:20:28,100 --> 00:20:32,600
incredibly over-leveraged and 
was taking unadvisable risks 

433
00:20:32,600 --> 00:20:34,200
with client money, right? 
Interview. 

434
00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:35,500
Sure. 
Haunted by this session. 

435
00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:37,100
You should never use client 
money. 

436
00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:40,100
Like, I mean, obviously, you can
invest climb money in some 

437
00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:43,400
cases, but shifting climb money 
to a totally different, you 

438
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:45,800
know, vehicle to make 
speculative risk. 

439
00:20:45,800 --> 00:20:48,900
I mean, that's, it's sort of far
outside. 

440
00:20:48,900 --> 00:20:50,800
Good. 
What is the Eric? 

441
00:20:50,800 --> 00:20:54,400
What are the least incriminating
version of events for Sam that 

442
00:20:54,400 --> 00:20:56,200
you could come up with? 
Like what is the argument that 

443
00:20:56,200 --> 00:20:57,800
Sam is? 
Nothing like Elizabeth Holmes. 

444
00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,300
And that this was all, you know,
a misunderstanding. 

445
00:21:00,500 --> 00:21:02,700
I mean, I guess the least 
incriminating. 

446
00:21:02,700 --> 00:21:07,000
This is total bull shitting. 
Though is just that like FTX was

447
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:10,800
fucked as soon as like those 
earlier contagions went down and

448
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,200
that he basically had to do 
everything to get out of that or

449
00:21:14,200 --> 00:21:15,900
otherwise, the customers were 
fucked anyway. 

450
00:21:15,900 --> 00:21:20,100
And so he sort of violated 
customer trust once it was like,

451
00:21:20,100 --> 00:21:22,100
well, if you knew what was going
on your, you were going to get 

452
00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:25,100
destroyed so who cares? 
And then maybe he would have 

453
00:21:25,100 --> 00:21:28,800
written it out if only By Nance 
hadn't like drawn attention to 

454
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:31,600
this and leaks hadn't tried to 
really raise questions. 

455
00:21:31,600 --> 00:21:34,000
And then there was sort of a run
on the bank and the run on the 

456
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,300
bank, really did A Min. 
But I mean, I feel like that's 

457
00:21:36,300 --> 00:21:38,900
like, you could say similar 
things to Bernie Madoff. 

458
00:21:38,900 --> 00:21:40,200
It's like, I Almost Got Away 
With It. 

459
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:42,100
Like, if you, if no one had 
flagged this, I would have 

460
00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:43,600
raised more money know what's 
going on. 

461
00:21:43,600 --> 00:21:47,100
This game works is that the 
problem is, when the Music Stops

462
00:21:47,100 --> 00:21:49,100
and then it all kind of falls 
apart. 

463
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,100
I mean, again, I think because 
crypto is still such an unstable

464
00:21:53,100 --> 00:21:56,200
space and, you know, the air 
went out of that balloon with 

465
00:21:56,200 --> 00:21:57,200
such rapidity. 
Petit. 

466
00:21:57,400 --> 00:22:00,200
It's just hard to compare it to 
like the organized and 

467
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:04,000
step-by-step deception, that 
Elizabeth Holmes had which, you 

468
00:22:04,000 --> 00:22:06,300
know, like there was no there 
there with well. 

469
00:22:06,300 --> 00:22:08,900
I mean there's that famous 
famous famous to the tech 

470
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,400
reporter said and super insiders
but interview where Matt Levine 

471
00:22:12,400 --> 00:22:16,800
of Bloomberg is like talking to 
Sam Venkman freed and like 

472
00:22:17,900 --> 00:22:20,900
basically Sam admits that maybe 
like a lot of these like, 

473
00:22:20,900 --> 00:22:23,900
made-up currencies or should be 
worth nothing and they're sort 

474
00:22:23,900 --> 00:22:27,500
of playing games like he almost 
admits that the The thing is a 

475
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:31,800
farce and it's just like yeah. 
Matt Levine is like you sort of 

476
00:22:31,800 --> 00:22:34,500
admitted that this is like fake,
right? 

477
00:22:34,600 --> 00:22:39,800
Well, why also did reporters not
ask questions about FTX in the 

478
00:22:39,800 --> 00:22:42,700
wake of all the collapse of the 
crypto companies and as he was 

479
00:22:42,700 --> 00:22:45,400
buying up all of these shitty 
startups, bailing them out or 

480
00:22:45,400 --> 00:22:47,300
whatever doing it as like as 
miss a few extras. 

481
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:51,300
In exchange, I think that's like
Alamitos sort of like a private 

482
00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:53,000
like speculative investment 
firm. 

483
00:22:53,000 --> 00:22:55,800
It's like whatever who cares 
what Sam's doing with that, he 

484
00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:58,700
talks about it, It, I would hear
Whispers from people, like, I 

485
00:22:58,700 --> 00:23:01,200
reached out to Sam one point. 
He didn't respond reply, but I 

486
00:23:01,208 --> 00:23:03,600
was like, I heard you shorted, 
like the stock market. 

487
00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,500
You made a ton of money, you 
know, there are all sorts of 

488
00:23:05,500 --> 00:23:08,400
rumors on just like the genius 
of Sam. 

489
00:23:08,400 --> 00:23:11,500
Bingman free day seem to have 
unlimited amounts of money and 

490
00:23:11,500 --> 00:23:14,400
so it's like, okay Alameda. 
That's his like private, like 

491
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:17,200
investment firm. 
That doesn't really affect while

492
00:23:17,200 --> 00:23:19,300
their investors probably. 
I don't even know the Dynamics 

493
00:23:19,300 --> 00:23:20,500
of it. 
It's not like public money. 

494
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:23,600
The crazy thing is using like, 
basically bank account style 

495
00:23:23,600 --> 00:23:26,000
money with FTX right to Shore 
that up. 

496
00:23:26,000 --> 00:23:30,100
So it's Not the same as he's 
like made up currencies you know

497
00:23:30,100 --> 00:23:32,000
which really felt like like 
tether. 

498
00:23:32,000 --> 00:23:35,600
It is not like tether it is 
different than that but had the 

499
00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:39,000
crypto Market not Fallen you 
know off a cliff in term. 

500
00:23:39,000 --> 00:23:41,300
Sure yeah I'll give all these 
currencies everything keeps 

501
00:23:41,300 --> 00:23:43,900
going on even fine. 
Yeah yeah I mean that you know 

502
00:23:43,900 --> 00:23:46,500
it's in the same way that you 
know 2008 crisis exposed. 

503
00:23:46,500 --> 00:23:47,900
Bernie Madoff. 
Was that early? 

504
00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:51,500
That's not like oh we only build
our investment vehicle going to 

505
00:23:51,500 --> 00:23:55,100
work if everything continues to 
rise is like yeah that's that's 

506
00:23:55,100 --> 00:23:56,800
nice. 
That's every scammer and The 

507
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:58,800
world. 
Unlike a crypto specific 

508
00:23:58,800 --> 00:24:01,800
question and maybe we're not 
qualified enough to answer it. 

509
00:24:01,800 --> 00:24:04,400
But, you know, problem, this is 
a podcast, you can say whatever 

510
00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:08,000
you want, we alluded to it a 
little bit in Eric's intro, but 

511
00:24:08,000 --> 00:24:12,200
you know, another key figure in 
this whole thing was CZ over at 

512
00:24:12,200 --> 00:24:16,000
biting ants, who basically said,
I'm dumping all my Holdings and 

513
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,300
ftt. 
And that basically kicked out, 

514
00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:21,300
like the rotten leg underneath 
FTX that caused this whole thing

515
00:24:21,300 --> 00:24:24,000
to happen. 
And, you know, as you mentioned,

516
00:24:24,000 --> 00:24:27,400
Matt Levine, I mean, he had a 
pretty funny and Analogy. 

517
00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:30,500
And one of his newsletters 
earlier this week or last week 

518
00:24:30,500 --> 00:24:32,300
or something, where he was 
saying, you know, during the 

519
00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:36,300
2008 financial crisis, if you 
went around, you know, if you 

520
00:24:36,300 --> 00:24:39,300
were like a banker, and you were
saying to people, hey, I hear 

521
00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:40,700
Lehman, Brothers isn't doing too
well. 

522
00:24:40,700 --> 00:24:43,100
These days, why don't you move 
your money over to my easier to 

523
00:24:43,100 --> 00:24:44,900
our bank right? 
That actually would be a 

524
00:24:44,908 --> 00:24:47,100
disastrous thing to do. 
Your boss should fire you 

525
00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:49,300
because you aren't just bringing
over a new account you're 

526
00:24:49,300 --> 00:24:52,600
undermining you know trust 
making a system the entire 

527
00:24:52,600 --> 00:24:57,100
system and so I do wonder if you
know because you know It's easy 

528
00:24:57,100 --> 00:24:59,500
when he when he, you know, there
was a brief period where they 

529
00:24:59,508 --> 00:25:01,900
were going to acquire them and 
then they ended up not doing it.

530
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,600
I mean, this hurt the whole 
system here benefit himself. 

531
00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:06,100
I think there's I doing this. 
It's easy. 

532
00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:09,900
Did one sort of acquire, I had 
some situation but I think my by

533
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:12,200
it was too bad. 
Well, I'm just wondering if he 

534
00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:14,000
didn't realize how weak they 
were like. 

535
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,200
He thought he was going to dump 
them. 

536
00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,100
I don't think he realized that 
he was going to be toppling, you

537
00:25:18,100 --> 00:25:21,900
know, a headline fucking Banner 
company in the space? 

538
00:25:21,900 --> 00:25:25,200
That is like, undoubtedly going 
to hurt him, but I want to move.

539
00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:28,300
I want to change back. 
Sort of teddys area of expertise

540
00:25:28,300 --> 00:25:31,400
day. 
I mean what does this mean for 

541
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:33,900
Democrats and also don't 
Democrats like look bad. 

542
00:25:33,900 --> 00:25:38,000
Like I mean I think people move 
on pretty fast from the donor 

543
00:25:38,000 --> 00:25:40,200
for a given party is evil and 
less. 

544
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:44,100
They, it happens to be Laden 
with anti-Semitism but the I 

545
00:25:44,108 --> 00:25:46,200
don't know. 
Do you think it's it's damning 

546
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,600
to the Democrats. 
They so readily took spfs money 

547
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,200
when he turns out to be this 
sort of - figure look. 

548
00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:56,500
I mean like is this Harvey 
Weinstein? 

549
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:59,600
Well, we're, you know, Democrats
had to like, donate his money to

550
00:25:59,600 --> 00:26:03,500
like times up. 
No much money to do that. 

551
00:26:04,000 --> 00:26:07,100
Well, I mean, the read, the 
reality is, I mean, the, the 

552
00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:10,100
money that Sam has donated has 
primarily been to his own Super 

553
00:26:10,100 --> 00:26:14,400
PAC, Sam started a group called 
protect our future, which spent 

554
00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:19,000
like 20, 30 million and related 
party transactions with this 

555
00:26:19,000 --> 00:26:20,200
guy, everything. 
All right. 

556
00:26:21,900 --> 00:26:24,100
That's not, that's not that 
unusual for a donor group. 

557
00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:26,600
But basically, like the broader 
context here, Sam over the last 

558
00:26:27,600 --> 00:26:31,000
18 months has hired a ton of 
fucking people. 

559
00:26:31,200 --> 00:26:34,000
Like, there's so many 
consultants who I mean, will 

560
00:26:34,000 --> 00:26:37,400
Macadam, the effect of 
altruistic altruist guy, that 

561
00:26:37,400 --> 00:26:38,200
guy? 
Yes, terrible. 

562
00:26:38,200 --> 00:26:41,400
I mean he is been out, the will 
mccaskill, it will mccaskill 

563
00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,400
last night is a signatory to 
this like pretty extraordinary 

564
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:46,500
statement. 
So for folks who don't know what

565
00:26:46,500 --> 00:26:50,900
Castle was on the board of the 
FTX future fund, which is like 

566
00:26:51,200 --> 00:26:53,300
Sam's primary philanthropy for 
Sam. 

567
00:26:53,300 --> 00:26:55,600
And I just say I'm actually 
frankly, all these other kind of

568
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,100
senior FTX Ex who are all 
aligned and there they put out 

569
00:26:59,100 --> 00:27:02,200
the statement last night that 
said like we are shocked and 

570
00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:05,600
appalled, effectively, you know,
alleging possible deception by 

571
00:27:05,600 --> 00:27:08,300
FTX leadership and it was, you 
know, interesting because well 

572
00:27:08,300 --> 00:27:10,900
mccaskill is like Sam banquet, 
fried's Mentor. 

573
00:27:10,900 --> 00:27:14,100
Well, mccaskill's literally, the
guy in elon's messages, trying 

574
00:27:14,100 --> 00:27:17,100
to pitch like Elon to take SBI a
sales meeting as. 

575
00:27:17,100 --> 00:27:19,900
Yeah, he could give you at least
five billion as much as eight 

576
00:27:19,900 --> 00:27:22,500
billion dollars a year long. 
The money's good here? 

577
00:27:22,600 --> 00:27:24,000
Can you guys imagine if that 
happened? 

578
00:27:24,100 --> 00:27:26,500
I don't have like Twitter later 
but out a bit of fun, fun. 

579
00:27:26,700 --> 00:27:30,200
Also represent so Sam hired, all
these people and like, you know,

580
00:27:30,200 --> 00:27:33,100
I talked with a lot of these 
people have like, you know, I 

581
00:27:33,100 --> 00:27:36,500
have a talk with over the last 
48 hours and like everyone is in

582
00:27:36,500 --> 00:27:41,500
a state of, you know, 
trepidation and shocked and, you

583
00:27:41,508 --> 00:27:43,600
know, to the point you're making
about should Democrats Return of

584
00:27:43,608 --> 00:27:45,400
the money. 
Like, there's a feeling of 

585
00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:49,000
almost complicity here. 
Did they legitimize this person 

586
00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,000
in some untoward way? 
Now, what I'm about to say is 

587
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:55,000
not a reference to will be, as I
don't know, all these individual

588
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:59,000
actors but Sam was basically in 
like a cuddle puddle with some 

589
00:27:59,000 --> 00:28:01,200
of these people, right? 
Or luck coin does just had a 

590
00:28:01,208 --> 00:28:05,100
story that he was like on and 
off dating the CEO of Alameda 

591
00:28:05,100 --> 00:28:07,900
research that. 
I mean somebody use the word 

592
00:28:07,900 --> 00:28:10,700
which is a very San Francisco 
term Paulie. 

593
00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:14,800
Cool look just like the idea 
that they were all just dating 

594
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:15,900
each other. 
And that was sort of a 

595
00:28:15,900 --> 00:28:18,500
complicating factor in that. 
They were all living in a loft 

596
00:28:18,500 --> 00:28:21,400
in the Bahamas, right? 
And just like that, they all 

597
00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:22,100
they do. 
All looked. 

598
00:28:22,100 --> 00:28:24,800
I have no independent reporting 
on me romantic relationships 

599
00:28:24,800 --> 00:28:26,500
here, but it is. 
Truly did all live together. 

600
00:28:26,700 --> 00:28:29,100
Talking about sex, not right? 
Yeah. 

601
00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:32,600
There was no emotion here. 
This is purely transactional. 

602
00:28:32,600 --> 00:28:34,600
They're all sucking and fucking 
in the Bahamas. 

603
00:28:34,600 --> 00:28:36,500
Well, as well. 
They were protecting their 

604
00:28:36,500 --> 00:28:38,800
Futures. 
Sure. 

605
00:28:39,000 --> 00:28:40,800
I mean, the red flags just a 
quickly. 

606
00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,300
We've covered a lot of them 
based in the Bahamas. 

607
00:28:43,300 --> 00:28:47,200
Relentless, multi-party, 
transactions, no investor board,

608
00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,700
little investor oversight. 
People, use dating running 

609
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:53,100
things. 
Friends running other things, I 

610
00:28:53,108 --> 00:28:55,200
mean, I did write. 
The one thing I will defend 

611
00:28:55,200 --> 00:28:58,100
myself on is I did. 
Really push the point that like 

612
00:28:58,500 --> 00:29:02,500
there was a lot of commentary 
that like spfs donations were 

613
00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:07,100
like well-intentioned Goodwill. 
And I mean, clearly there was a 

614
00:29:07,108 --> 00:29:09,800
strong incentive for him to 
like, stay close to. 

615
00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:13,600
The Democrats is like pure pure 
strategy but but yeah, well I 

616
00:29:13,608 --> 00:29:21,500
think, I think, I think you can 
are like, SPS people always got 

617
00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:26,100
pissed at the idea that what 
they were doing on pandemics and

618
00:29:26,100 --> 00:29:29,500
a Democrat. 
Politics was like shoehorned 

619
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:31,300
into a narrative about crypto, 
right? 

620
00:29:31,300 --> 00:29:33,900
So they were always you know 
like this this was a huge deal 

621
00:29:33,900 --> 00:29:37,600
and few guys followed like 
Congressional race and origin in

622
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:40,900
the spring where Sam's been like
15 million dollars and basically

623
00:29:40,900 --> 00:29:44,800
help prop up this kind of like 
you know random candidate and 

624
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:48,500
like everyone in Oregon was, you
know, positioning this as why is

625
00:29:48,500 --> 00:29:51,100
this, you know, Bahamas, living 
tax. 

626
00:29:51,100 --> 00:29:54,500
Avoiding crypto Billy are 
pushing his crypto agenda and it

627
00:29:54,500 --> 00:29:58,700
wasn't really about crypto that 
being Said like, of course, 

628
00:29:58,900 --> 00:30:01,500
there are people in d.c. like 
Sam was doing these two things 

629
00:30:01,500 --> 00:30:02,400
simultaneously. 
Right? 

630
00:30:02,400 --> 00:30:05,400
As you know, pushing is pandemic
preparedness. 

631
00:30:05,500 --> 00:30:08,400
But if you really want to script
Ojeda and like, can you really 

632
00:30:08,400 --> 00:30:11,500
separate those two things? 
If you're a congress person who 

633
00:30:11,500 --> 00:30:14,900
is like, taking the meeting, do 
you really like double down on 

634
00:30:14,900 --> 00:30:17,300
the effective altruism True 
Believer thing? 

635
00:30:17,600 --> 00:30:21,100
I've heard people joking in the 
seems like very implausible but 

636
00:30:21,100 --> 00:30:24,200
they're like, you know, Sam 
basically absconded with all 

637
00:30:24,200 --> 00:30:25,900
this money. 
It's like, oh I probably was 

638
00:30:25,900 --> 00:30:28,400
going to make any more Our. 
I can donate this better than I 

639
00:30:28,408 --> 00:30:31,200
could do anything with it. 
Just like run away with like 

640
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:34,300
billions to go like donate to. 
You know, that would be the 

641
00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:37,300
ultimate effective altruism 
cause somebody literally tweeted

642
00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:40,900
like you know, if anybody has 
the most high torque sort of 

643
00:30:40,900 --> 00:30:44,200
moral intuitions around 
utilitarianism, like would you 

644
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:48,100
push like 99 people in front of 
a train to save 100? 

645
00:30:48,200 --> 00:30:51,800
It would be SPF. 
So like does this guy commits, 

646
00:30:51,800 --> 00:30:55,700
like sort of the ultimate sort 
of heist to that would be the 

647
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:58,300
great that would be the Best 
version of this story that it's 

648
00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,700
like Robin Hood, but 
unfortunately, I'm human like 

649
00:31:01,700 --> 00:31:04,300
the story of Robin Hood, not the
Robin Hood trading, but he was 

650
00:31:04,300 --> 00:31:07,200
tasting, taking money from rich 
people, so we could direct it 

651
00:31:07,200 --> 00:31:09,400
towards, you know, I mean, look,
that is very effective. 

652
00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:11,500
Altruism. 
The problem is that he brought 

653
00:31:11,500 --> 00:31:13,900
down the entire movement through
his collapse. 

654
00:31:13,900 --> 00:31:16,000
So that's not what's the 
percentage chance on this 

655
00:31:16,000 --> 00:31:18,400
Theory. 
There is a lot of discussion. 

656
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:21,100
As you guys might expect about 
this on the EA Forum which is 

657
00:31:21,100 --> 00:31:24,200
like this like very active 
Community Message Board sort of 

658
00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,600
for the effective altruism 
movement and there is A almost 

659
00:31:27,600 --> 00:31:30,800
defensive posture about the 
question of fraud right now, 

660
00:31:30,800 --> 00:31:32,300
like, is fraud. 
Okay? 

661
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:35,600
Like is being debated like 
vigorously, like, not really. 

662
00:31:35,800 --> 00:31:38,200
That's, I'm Simon. 
No one is defending fraud. 

663
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:42,100
But like, her people are 
voluntarily making clear that 

664
00:31:42,100 --> 00:31:46,200
their anti-fraud sort of see, 
I'm sort of EA grounds like is. 

665
00:31:46,200 --> 00:31:47,600
Right. 
I think, I think, you know, 

666
00:31:47,600 --> 00:31:49,900
there are, there is a 
theoretical argument to make 

667
00:31:49,900 --> 00:31:52,700
that like, definitely, you know,
hey shouldn't, isn't it like, 

668
00:31:53,000 --> 00:31:56,100
you know, because, and, you 
know, utilitarianism and Andy a 

669
00:31:56,500 --> 00:31:58,200
Takes this to the extreme 
anyways. 

670
00:31:58,200 --> 00:32:00,800
I mean some of these you know, 
sort of more conservative type 

671
00:32:00,800 --> 00:32:04,500
principles person would be very 
just are like what are the hard 

672
00:32:04,500 --> 00:32:07,500
rules and otherwise like I'm 
free to do what I want. 

673
00:32:07,500 --> 00:32:10,700
Where is like, very much 
utilitarianism is all about like

674
00:32:11,200 --> 00:32:14,000
let's run the calculus, anything
murder could be, okay? 

675
00:32:14,000 --> 00:32:18,100
If like you know you're saving 
10,000 people in the future or 

676
00:32:18,100 --> 00:32:19,200
whatever. 
You know this is all this really

677
00:32:19,200 --> 00:32:22,500
weird games they play. 
And so it's funny that they 

678
00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:25,300
can't they don't want to defend 
fraud right now but it seems 

679
00:32:25,300 --> 00:32:28,600
inherent to the View that you 
you can write, how committed are

680
00:32:28,600 --> 00:32:31,200
you to your beliefs here? 
Like, here's the ultimate test, 

681
00:32:31,200 --> 00:32:33,500
we have you. 
No position to you that your 

682
00:32:33,500 --> 00:32:38,300
great benefactor was in fact, 
allegedly engaging in deception 

683
00:32:38,300 --> 00:32:40,600
and fraud. 
And yet he was doing the most 

684
00:32:40,600 --> 00:32:42,900
amount of good with that fraud 
as possible. 

685
00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:46,100
So, do you defend this all Tino 
effective altruism or not? 

686
00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:48,600
You believe her and they're not,
I mean, I think they should one 

687
00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:50,800
by one have to answer for that 
because if not, then they just 

688
00:32:50,800 --> 00:32:54,000
were never True Believers in the
cause I mean, who of the great, 

689
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:56,300
you know, recipients of his of 
his do. 

690
00:32:56,500 --> 00:32:59,000
Nations is suffering the most 
right now. 

691
00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,600
Biden had a pretty good midterm,
so maybe he's doing. 

692
00:33:01,600 --> 00:33:04,400
Okay for the time being. 
But, I mean, a lot of this was, 

693
00:33:04,400 --> 00:33:08,100
I mean, got to talk with some 
people who have gotten money 

694
00:33:08,100 --> 00:33:10,200
from Sam over the last couple of
years. 

695
00:33:11,600 --> 00:33:14,400
You know, the basically, there's
the main group is called 

696
00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,500
guarding against pandemics, 
which is sort of Sam's lobbying 

697
00:33:17,500 --> 00:33:22,000
operation in DC and they have a 
ton of people who work for them 

698
00:33:22,000 --> 00:33:26,000
either full time or part time. 
And, you know, I reported the 

699
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:30,200
story today, That like right 
now, Sam's Brothers, got Gabe 

700
00:33:30,200 --> 00:33:32,500
who's very intimately involved 
in sort of overseeing all of 

701
00:33:32,500 --> 00:33:35,700
Sam's. 
Non FTX work Gabe right now is 

702
00:33:35,700 --> 00:33:39,200
like kind of frantically looking
for more cash for the 

703
00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:43,300
organization because given to 
him, well I mean, you know, 

704
00:33:43,300 --> 00:33:46,600
Gabe's argument that he's making
to other people, is that this 

705
00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:49,800
was really his operation, Gabe's
operation that Sam funded. 

706
00:33:49,900 --> 00:33:52,800
Obviously the Optics, you know, 
his last name is backman free. 

707
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,600
And, yeah, the guy would start 
there. 

708
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,200
Yeah, we're gonna be difficult 
to be difficult. 

709
00:33:56,200 --> 00:34:01,000
So, The nepotism train runs out 
when your brother like absconds 

710
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:04,900
with the money that made it 
possible like, yeah, yeah, I'm 

711
00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:09,699
g.b.f., I'm very different. 
Please, please give me your 

712
00:34:09,699 --> 00:34:11,500
money. 
So there's that. 

713
00:34:11,600 --> 00:34:15,600
I mean, there's also kind of 
like a broader, like, Democrats 

714
00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,100
and progressives fundraisers 
were like obsessed with him. 

715
00:34:18,100 --> 00:34:21,500
As this, you know, like, it's 
some of our don't know. 

716
00:34:21,507 --> 00:34:24,699
This is a big, big, big scoop 
for run Puck internal 

717
00:34:25,199 --> 00:34:27,199
imaginations. 
But like, People want to read 

718
00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:29,100
about Sam, backman, Freight, 
like it was right, people 

719
00:34:29,100 --> 00:34:31,000
converted, like I got 
subscriber. 

720
00:34:31,000 --> 00:34:33,900
These people can pronounce it 
right by money train is running 

721
00:34:33,900 --> 00:34:35,699
out. 
Yeah, shirts. 

722
00:34:35,800 --> 00:34:37,500
So like, people were very, 
there's an obsession and, you 

723
00:34:37,507 --> 00:34:39,900
know, anecdotally, we talk to 
people about like, you know, 

724
00:34:39,900 --> 00:34:43,000
where the money is going to go 
in Democratic politics, like a 

725
00:34:43,000 --> 00:34:46,400
lot of people wanted to get to 
know this person and get 

726
00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:48,699
introductions to his Network 
partially these. 

727
00:34:48,699 --> 00:34:50,199
So young, right? 
Like, you as someone who people 

728
00:34:50,199 --> 00:34:54,300
thought might be, you know, a 
democratic power broker for 

729
00:34:54,300 --> 00:34:58,500
decades, obviously, So that sort
of it's almost like not only 

730
00:34:58,500 --> 00:35:02,000
what was lost in the present, 
but sort of the future earnings 

731
00:35:02,000 --> 00:35:05,500
that are now out of the picture.
If this repeater, it's heal the 

732
00:35:05,500 --> 00:35:07,400
media. 
I mean obviously we're all going

733
00:35:07,400 --> 00:35:11,100
ballistic over the actual FTX 
story but Republicans would get 

734
00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:13,500
tagged with it much more than 
Democrats are getting. 

735
00:35:13,500 --> 00:35:17,800
Yeah, yeah probably media bias 
are we talk about Peter teal and

736
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:19,200
the election? 
I will say it. 

737
00:35:19,200 --> 00:35:21,400
We have teddy on here so I will 
admit to it. 

738
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,800
I have said is that I thought 
Blake Masters would win. 

739
00:35:24,800 --> 00:35:27,200
Now I want to say as we're 
recording this on a We should 

740
00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:29,100
let the full Democratic process 
play out. 

741
00:35:29,100 --> 00:35:30,700
Not all the votes have been 
counted. 

742
00:35:30,800 --> 00:35:32,800
I want to make sure that 
everyone who vote in Arizona, 

743
00:35:32,800 --> 00:35:35,600
has a chance to have their vote 
counted, but it doesn't look 

744
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:39,000
good for Blake Masters. 
He ate shit on Election night. 

745
00:35:39,200 --> 00:35:41,300
Can I also just say on are 
related to pets? 

746
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,900
I had a bachelor party. 
I was pretty drunk, but I 

747
00:35:44,900 --> 00:35:48,600
thought I had five-to-one odds. 
I'm John fetterman that if 

748
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,700
fetterman when I get $100 in to 
be lost, I had to pay 20, I was 

749
00:35:51,700 --> 00:35:54,200
like, that's an insane deal, 
I'll definitely take it. 

750
00:35:54,600 --> 00:35:58,600
And that friend, I texted him. 
Fetterman one and he hasn't paid

751
00:35:58,600 --> 00:36:01,500
me and I think you listen to 
this podcast so you know who you

752
00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:03,200
are. 
I thought that was a real bad. 

753
00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:04,500
I don't know that we shook our 
hands. 

754
00:36:04,500 --> 00:36:09,400
So so that friend that friend, 
Sam, Becky free, you're not 

755
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,700
seeing that money. 
Eric that money's all gone your 

756
00:36:13,700 --> 00:36:16,300
money's not here. 
Your money's not here, it's over

757
00:36:16,300 --> 00:36:18,700
there. 
It's the okay. 

758
00:36:18,700 --> 00:36:22,700
So, Peter teal, I mean, what, 
let's take stock a little bit of

759
00:36:22,700 --> 00:36:26,400
his kind of role in the future 
of Republican politics, because 

760
00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:30,800
JD Vance did win although not 
maybe as impressively as people 

761
00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,000
would have thought but you know,
Ohio is basically just a 

762
00:36:33,008 --> 00:36:36,300
straight-up Republican state now
and so that really is all it 

763
00:36:36,308 --> 00:36:38,900
took to carry JD Vance across 
the line. 

764
00:36:39,200 --> 00:36:42,000
Blake Masters lost. 
I think you'll probably hear an 

765
00:36:42,000 --> 00:36:45,000
argument from people that had 
there been a better candidate 

766
00:36:45,000 --> 00:36:49,700
may be a candidate who had a job
prior to running for office or 

767
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,200
was it not a little book 
factotum guy? 

768
00:36:52,300 --> 00:36:55,000
Yeah, wasn't yeah. 
Terrifying people with his kind 

769
00:36:55,000 --> 00:36:58,700
of blank stares and Really 
creepy demeanor that probably 

770
00:36:58,900 --> 00:37:02,000
poster. 
Yeah, I do love the clip of Mark

771
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:04,400
Kelly being like you want like 
this guy, the kind of guy you 

772
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,500
just like tells you he knows 
better than you like sort of 

773
00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:09,600
debate school kid, you wanted 
this Skyrim? 

774
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,000
You know, I I did love just 
like, look at him, look at this 

775
00:37:13,000 --> 00:37:15,000
great guy. 
My closing argument is like look

776
00:37:15,000 --> 00:37:18,100
at this fucking guy anyway. 
Yeah, so there's, you know, a 

777
00:37:18,100 --> 00:37:20,700
solid argument you're hearing 
made among Republicans that they

778
00:37:20,700 --> 00:37:23,300
were just really bad candidates 
here and he was pushed across 

779
00:37:23,300 --> 00:37:25,100
the line almost entirely by 
Peter teal. 

780
00:37:25,100 --> 00:37:27,900
So what Make it visible the 
future. 

781
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:31,800
Okay, go, go, tell me. 
I mean I mean I mean I think the

782
00:37:31,800 --> 00:37:34,600
Peter teal narrative has been 
overstated. 

783
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:38,800
I think a lots of ways like 
being Peter spent 2.5 million 

784
00:37:38,800 --> 00:37:41,800
dollars to boost Blake Masters 
in the general election that is 

785
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:44,000
right in the front like Masters 
would not even be on the 

786
00:37:44,000 --> 00:37:46,400
political map if you have, who 
is this guy? 

787
00:37:46,700 --> 00:37:50,000
There is nobody like Thomas 
saying that. 

788
00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:52,600
If you pushed over a line by 
Peter teal, I don't like over 

789
00:37:52,600 --> 00:37:55,300
the line in terms of getting the
nomination he didn't know they 

790
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:58,400
sure do you know? 
In the primary, in the primary, 

791
00:37:58,400 --> 00:38:01,300
I would, I would, I would, I 
wouldn't even put them in. 

792
00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:05,300
This is debatable, but I would 
even argue that the Peter teal 

793
00:38:05,300 --> 00:38:10,200
money for Blake Masters, and for
JD Vance was not determined 

794
00:38:10,200 --> 00:38:13,500
active in those races. 
Both of those races had had sell

795
00:38:13,500 --> 00:38:15,900
funders who ended up spending a 
lot of money. 

796
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:19,300
Like 15 million dollars is a lot
but also not Blake Masters and 

797
00:38:19,300 --> 00:38:20,900
JD Vance don't have a lot of 
here. 

798
00:38:20,900 --> 00:38:23,800
You'll never live sure. 
They fucking nobody's. 

799
00:38:24,400 --> 00:38:26,900
I agree that they do do not win 
the races without Teal. 

800
00:38:26,900 --> 00:38:28,700
But okay. 
I don't know right now. 

801
00:38:28,800 --> 00:38:33,100
Like, what no, but seriously 
though because I think there was

802
00:38:33,100 --> 00:38:35,300
so much written about and I the 
reason that I made the Blake 

803
00:38:35,300 --> 00:38:38,600
Masters prediction was because I
first of all believe the polls 

804
00:38:38,600 --> 00:38:40,100
and, you know, Vibes and shit 
like that. 

805
00:38:40,100 --> 00:38:43,100
But also I just foresaw this 
future in which both those guys 

806
00:38:43,100 --> 00:38:46,400
got, you know, elected and we 
were going to be a wash and all 

807
00:38:46,400 --> 00:38:50,200
these stories of Peter teal is 
the, you know, financial and 

808
00:38:50,200 --> 00:38:53,300
ideological force behind the 
modern Republican party and 

809
00:38:53,300 --> 00:38:56,000
because things played out in 
kind of complicated and bad ways

810
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:58,500
for those Candidates. 
I think that really communicates

811
00:38:58,500 --> 00:39:00,400
that narrative. 
So so, where are we with you? 

812
00:39:00,400 --> 00:39:03,600
Okay, let's me. 
Go JD, that's one, like let JT 

813
00:39:03,600 --> 00:39:06,300
Vance is a u.s. senator, Peter 
teal was a huge part of shit 

814
00:39:06,300 --> 00:39:09,300
events campaign. 
Like, you know, the fact that so

815
00:39:09,300 --> 00:39:12,800
when Peter wins like, well, I 
have a big deal and when, you 

816
00:39:13,700 --> 00:39:17,200
know, I'm just pushing back on 
the idea that like, I feel like,

817
00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:18,900
I feel like you guys are framing
this, like, both these 

818
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:22,000
candidates loss, like, here's 
the advance, want ya know? 

819
00:39:22,000 --> 00:39:25,400
David flood is u.s. and Iran 
six-year term, like it sucks 

820
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,900
once. 
Which guy do not get? 

821
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:30,900
Do we get the guy out of you 
know the book or what? 

822
00:39:30,900 --> 00:39:32,700
I can never remember that 
fucking books name. 

823
00:39:32,700 --> 00:39:34,700
Well, I bet it's fucking 
complicated for him now, right? 

824
00:39:34,700 --> 00:39:35,700
Because there were two. 
Right. 

825
00:39:35,700 --> 00:39:37,100
You're saying there were, there 
were two JD Vance's. 

826
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:39,100
There was the one who was 
anti-trump, then there's the one

827
00:39:39,100 --> 00:39:41,200
who is like groveling at his 
feet so he could get the 

828
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:43,400
endorsement which he did. 
And that got him the nomination.

829
00:39:43,400 --> 00:39:45,500
So, but now Trump is sort of a 
damaged figure. 

830
00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:48,600
So who does he who does he, you 
know, who does he loyal to? 

831
00:39:48,800 --> 00:39:51,600
And then with Blake? 
Yes, he probably gonna lose 

832
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,900
though. 
Like, I mean like, you know, the

833
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:56,100
I guess the, what is I guess it 
comes to what was the goal here?

834
00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,500
Was the goal to win the Senate 
seats, or was the goal to like, 

835
00:40:00,500 --> 00:40:02,800
establish himself as like a 
republic and player? 

836
00:40:03,200 --> 00:40:06,200
Because both of these people had
no chance of being the nominee 

837
00:40:06,200 --> 00:40:08,400
at the very beginning of their 
campaigns, right? 

838
00:40:08,400 --> 00:40:11,200
I mean, it's still, obviously, 
for to I'm like, I feel like, I 

839
00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:12,300
feel like it's still a win for 
Peter. 

840
00:40:12,400 --> 00:40:14,500
Overall, he's the other day. 
Do you like, you like, it 

841
00:40:14,500 --> 00:40:17,100
doesn't decide whether it's a 
red wave or not, like, that's 

842
00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:20,200
way out of, like, Peter elected 
two, nominees one, u.s. 

843
00:40:20,200 --> 00:40:23,000
Senator, I think if neither of 
them have been the nominee, it 

844
00:40:23,000 --> 00:40:25,400
would this would have been a 
failure, but I think overall the

845
00:40:25,400 --> 00:40:28,800
Peter 20. 
To political experiment was a 

846
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:29,800
success. 
Yeah. 

847
00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:32,700
Okay, great. 
And Shopkin is book basically 

848
00:40:32,700 --> 00:40:34,700
says this is just the beginning 
and that seems to be what you're

849
00:40:34,700 --> 00:40:36,800
saying. 
Well I also asked so I think 

850
00:40:36,800 --> 00:40:41,900
it's more, I've been more. 
I've been working here and I've 

851
00:40:41,900 --> 00:40:43,900
been working. 
Sure it on that on that idea. 

852
00:40:43,900 --> 00:40:47,300
I feel like some of Peters 
electoral interest in my opinion

853
00:40:47,300 --> 00:40:50,300
is overstated. 
I think some stories make it 

854
00:40:50,300 --> 00:40:53,500
seem like he wants to be like a 
king maker and a power broker, I

855
00:40:53,508 --> 00:40:56,200
do not think of this true, the 
things that he's success. 

856
00:40:56,300 --> 00:40:59,100
Us from doing our the things you
want to do the things he's not 

857
00:40:59,100 --> 00:41:01,500
successful in doing are the 
things you never want to do in 

858
00:41:01,500 --> 00:41:05,000
the first place. 
So do you mean I was just being 

859
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:06,700
ripped snide? 
I was just saying that. 

860
00:41:06,700 --> 00:41:08,800
Yeah, he gets to decide whether 
he? 

861
00:41:08,800 --> 00:41:12,900
Yeah, well I mean look, this is,
you know, we're speculating, you

862
00:41:12,900 --> 00:41:15,700
know, however, we want to at 
this point, but from what you're

863
00:41:15,700 --> 00:41:18,400
hearing within the power Brokers
in the Republican Party, are 

864
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,100
they happy with the way things 
played out for as candidates 

865
00:41:21,100 --> 00:41:24,700
like, will they accept more 
advice and you know, ideological

866
00:41:24,900 --> 00:41:28,100
motivation from him? 
I mean, there are some in the 

867
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:31,100
Republican establishment in more
moderate communities, right? 

868
00:41:31,100 --> 00:41:34,400
Who think that Peters been a 
force has been a force for not 

869
00:41:34,400 --> 00:41:37,200
for evil, but it is, it has 
been, it has not been a 

870
00:41:37,200 --> 00:41:40,400
productive player, right? 
You know, there was a huge story

871
00:41:40,400 --> 00:41:43,300
line over the over the summer, 
with regards to Mitch McConnell 

872
00:41:43,300 --> 00:41:46,400
and Peter teal, right? 
Where they were upset that Peter

873
00:41:46,900 --> 00:41:50,000
and their view supported these 
relatively right-wing candidates

874
00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,600
in the primary who they saw as 
less electable in the general 

875
00:41:53,600 --> 00:41:56,200
election and then declined to 
spend money on. 

876
00:41:56,300 --> 00:41:58,300
On them and the general. 
So they sort of thought that, 

877
00:41:58,300 --> 00:42:01,800
you know, Peter handed them out,
you know, turd sandwich and made

878
00:42:01,800 --> 00:42:04,200
them, you know, spend money to 
get the turd sandwich. 

879
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,300
Like they have at least 
something of a case with that 

880
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:08,700
like Masters, I don't know. 
I mean, it's hard to do the 

881
00:42:08,700 --> 00:42:11,900
counterfactual here on like, how
like Mark brnovich who is the 

882
00:42:11,900 --> 00:42:15,900
Arizona Ag and they Blake's main
rival on the primary like how it

883
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:19,400
burn damage done against Kelly. 
Like who knows is teal as 

884
00:42:19,400 --> 00:42:24,200
connected in DeSantis world as 
he is and Trump World. 

885
00:42:24,400 --> 00:42:26,200
Peter and the Santa's have met 
before. 

886
00:42:27,100 --> 00:42:30,700
I think twice Peter's Also, 
let's be clear like not that 

887
00:42:30,700 --> 00:42:32,700
connected in Trump World. 
Like I think us in Silicon 

888
00:42:32,700 --> 00:42:35,200
Valley media, make petered out 
to be this like, Trump 

889
00:42:35,200 --> 00:42:37,200
Whisperer. 
He sort of had like the second 

890
00:42:37,200 --> 00:42:39,200
orbit of, like, Business 
Leaders. 

891
00:42:39,200 --> 00:42:41,900
This is from an and right and 
then supposed to be close to 

892
00:42:41,900 --> 00:42:44,600
bash into hot. 
She like tried to get them to 

893
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:46,100
point all these crazy people 
right there. 

894
00:42:46,100 --> 00:42:48,900
But like, I would, I would 
venture to this is like in for 

895
00:42:48,900 --> 00:42:51,400
speculation based on some 
reporting Trump and Peter, 

896
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:54,200
probably talk every couple 
months. 

897
00:42:54,300 --> 00:42:57,500
It's not like you can see you 
can see Trump in the Blake 

898
00:42:57,500 --> 00:42:59,000
Masters clip. 
Like I don't know. 

899
00:42:59,000 --> 00:43:01,600
Who is that documentary? 
Yeah yeah, we're just like, what

900
00:43:01,600 --> 00:43:03,600
is Peter doing, right? 
Talk about beauty. 

901
00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,700
Looks up here in this way that 
he doesn't like relator giving 

902
00:43:05,700 --> 00:43:07,600
you more money. 
Yeah, he should be giving you 

903
00:43:07,600 --> 00:43:09,200
more money. 
That's good, that's good. 

904
00:43:22,900 --> 00:43:26,700
He seemed like very respectful 
for Trump of teal, you know, it 

905
00:43:26,700 --> 00:43:30,000
seemed like he understood. 
This was like a powerful guy. 

906
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:32,200
My point is like I went, I 
wouldn't overstate, I wouldn't, 

907
00:43:32,200 --> 00:43:35,700
I would not say that Trump and 
teal, or close. 

908
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:38,100
I guess, I guess not, true. 
I don't know how much you pay 

909
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:39,500
attention to David Sachs. 
You know. 

910
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:42,200
He's nice nuts. 
Compared to Tijuana, comes to, 

911
00:43:42,600 --> 00:43:44,600
you know, investing in or start 
donating. 

912
00:43:44,600 --> 00:43:48,500
Is that a reference to these 
weird texts to Ilan about why he

913
00:43:48,500 --> 00:43:52,000
could owe you big bad girls with
herself that yeah but like No. 

914
00:43:52,700 --> 00:43:54,900
Yes, axe is part of this whole 
contingent of people that are 

915
00:43:54,900 --> 00:43:57,500
fixated on cancel culture and 
woke people know. 

916
00:43:57,500 --> 00:44:00,100
They've been super quiet since 
Republicans lost. 

917
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:01,900
I mean, yeah. 
It's been funny. 

918
00:44:02,100 --> 00:44:03,200
Yeah. 
I mean, but there's, you know, I

919
00:44:03,207 --> 00:44:06,800
do think that is a contingent of
right-wing, Silicon Valley 

920
00:44:06,800 --> 00:44:09,800
belief that, you know, the 
biggest threat to free speech, 

921
00:44:09,800 --> 00:44:13,300
and our democracy is woke people
on Twitter, like announcing 

922
00:44:13,300 --> 00:44:17,200
their gender pronouns and you 
can make an argument that, that 

923
00:44:17,200 --> 00:44:19,400
world view is pretty handily 
rejected. 

924
00:44:19,500 --> 00:44:22,300
Yeah, well and reception 
literally just I wrote a column 

925
00:44:22,300 --> 00:44:26,500
basically saying he way over 
torqued around, whoa, culture. 

926
00:44:26,500 --> 00:44:29,500
And you sort of embarrassed and 
normal, people actually weren't 

927
00:44:29,500 --> 00:44:31,500
that upset about, right? 
And they were worried about 

928
00:44:31,500 --> 00:44:34,100
democracy. 
It like turns out, you know, I 

929
00:44:34,100 --> 00:44:35,100
don't know. 
It's very vindicate. 

930
00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:36,900
I'm I hope I do think we're 
going to burn. 

931
00:44:37,000 --> 00:44:39,500
I've been saying that I feel 
like cancel culture is like 

932
00:44:39,500 --> 00:44:40,700
burning out. 
So what are these woke? 

933
00:44:40,700 --> 00:44:43,700
People going to even have to 
yell about soon and like the 

934
00:44:43,700 --> 00:44:46,600
anti whoop people or both? 
I guess I'm saying that. 

935
00:44:46,600 --> 00:44:50,000
Yeah, the people who want to the
anti woke people but they're the

936
00:44:50,008 --> 00:44:52,100
people who want to talk about 
Right? 

937
00:44:52,100 --> 00:44:54,200
Woke - incessantly. 
So in a certain way they are the

938
00:44:54,200 --> 00:44:57,200
woke people because they're 
obsessed with it are not going 

939
00:44:57,200 --> 00:45:00,200
to have much to talk about 
because while they can invent 

940
00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,000
things like crime and like weird
Libs of tick-tock stuff. 

941
00:45:04,000 --> 00:45:06,400
It's just like they need the 
actual material at some point. 

942
00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,100
And I do think it's it's like 
what openness is not. 

943
00:45:09,100 --> 00:45:11,200
I live in Brooklyn. 
Like a lot of times these be I 

944
00:45:11,200 --> 00:45:13,100
live in Brooklyn. 
I don't even see it that much. 

945
00:45:13,100 --> 00:45:14,600
You know, I say all sorts of 
things. 

946
00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,300
Like I don't really understand 
like where the cancel culture is

947
00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:20,100
anymore. 
I don't know if you have any 

948
00:45:20,100 --> 00:45:23,000
thoughts on where things are, 
With, you know, that's trained 

949
00:45:23,000 --> 00:45:26,900
up in this forward, about the, 
the woke backlash or you like, 

950
00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:29,300
what the meet you, what do you 
mean term? 

951
00:45:29,300 --> 00:45:34,300
Election means, broadly, for 
like political alignment and 

952
00:45:34,300 --> 00:45:37,900
then translate that if at all 
possible into what it means for 

953
00:45:38,100 --> 00:45:40,700
Silicon Valley and it's alive. 
Yeah, I mean, look the energy 

954
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:43,200
and Silicon Valley is with the 
right, you know. 

955
00:45:43,200 --> 00:45:47,200
You Lawns takeover of Twitter or
sort of the crystallization of 

956
00:45:47,300 --> 00:45:51,400
that, like vague sense of where 
the energy lies, right? 

957
00:45:51,700 --> 00:45:54,100
And quite like that I think 
people like David Sachs. 

958
00:45:54,100 --> 00:45:55,300
I don't think they're not 
important. 

959
00:45:55,400 --> 00:45:58,500
Like David Sachs is like you 
know, helping to her like run 

960
00:45:58,500 --> 00:46:00,100
Twitter day-to-day right now, 
right? 

961
00:46:00,100 --> 00:46:03,900
He doing a bang-up job. 
Somebody talks to Peter and 

962
00:46:03,900 --> 00:46:06,000
healing musk, you know, 
frequently about political 

963
00:46:06,000 --> 00:46:08,300
stuff. 
You know the podcast they host 

964
00:46:08,300 --> 00:46:12,900
is obviously popular. 
And look, I mean I think that 

965
00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:16,000
clearly he's going to have more 
influence going forward and you 

966
00:46:16,008 --> 00:46:18,100
know like I think in terms of 
how the mid term effects this 

967
00:46:18,100 --> 00:46:22,000
like you know this is not the 
like red wave that You know, all

968
00:46:22,000 --> 00:46:25,100
the you know, conservative 
influencers were were desperate 

969
00:46:25,100 --> 00:46:27,100
for it to be lost? 
Well, I mean like look you know,

970
00:46:27,100 --> 00:46:29,200
Republicans don't roll house and
you know, it's clearly going to 

971
00:46:29,200 --> 00:46:34,100
be divided government which like
I think Trump 2024 or will 

972
00:46:34,100 --> 00:46:37,000
reveal whether or not Silicon 
Valley, serious about this or 

973
00:46:37,000 --> 00:46:39,700
not is serious about this like 
political engagement because, 

974
00:46:39,800 --> 00:46:41,800
you know, the always people love
to Santos was the nominee, 

975
00:46:41,800 --> 00:46:43,000
right? 
Because they can just sort of 

976
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:45,400
pretend that like Trump's not a 
factor in the party. 

977
00:46:45,700 --> 00:46:47,800
But will Peter teal and David 
Sachs? 

978
00:46:47,800 --> 00:46:50,200
Be hosting like this and is 2024
events. 

979
00:46:50,200 --> 00:46:51,500
Like I can see it. 
Yeah. 

980
00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:54,500
Twitter boy, guys, haven't been 
on it for the last week or so. 

981
00:46:54,500 --> 00:46:58,000
Sounds like a lots going on over
over at Twitter HQ. 

982
00:46:58,100 --> 00:47:00,200
I've been told everyone's got to
go into the office but what 

983
00:47:00,200 --> 00:47:02,600
exactly they're going to be 
working on is a real question. 

984
00:47:02,800 --> 00:47:06,400
Look here, I guess would be my 
quick thing on Twitter, which is

985
00:47:06,800 --> 00:47:08,700
the stories coming out. 
It about, you know, out of the 

986
00:47:08,700 --> 00:47:10,200
company right now are just 
incredible. 

987
00:47:10,500 --> 00:47:14,100
You know, the amount of just 
unrest and frustration, and fear

988
00:47:14,100 --> 00:47:17,300
and anger, that employees are 
expressing to Great reporters 

989
00:47:17,300 --> 00:47:20,500
like Casey Newton and Zoe over a
platformer and, you know, 

990
00:47:20,500 --> 00:47:23,600
reports it in Cider. 
And the information and whatever

991
00:47:23,800 --> 00:47:26,000
clearly are showing that, there 
is a ton of people that are 

992
00:47:26,000 --> 00:47:28,600
super fucking pissed off at how 
Elon is running things. 

993
00:47:29,100 --> 00:47:32,500
I do have a tendency to think 
that whenever the media 

994
00:47:32,500 --> 00:47:35,700
coalesces around a narrative. 
So strongly that we may be 

995
00:47:35,700 --> 00:47:39,000
missing something and is very 
possible that there is a whole 

996
00:47:39,000 --> 00:47:40,900
other side of things going on 
inside sweater. 

997
00:47:40,900 --> 00:47:44,300
And because Elon give zero shits
about PR and it, you know, a 

998
00:47:44,308 --> 00:47:49,000
normally, if you want has an 
incentive to make it seem bad 

999
00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:51,900
right now, like, any good 
narrative, story teller, Was 

1000
00:47:52,100 --> 00:47:55,200
make it seem. 
He's saying we might go bankrupt

1001
00:47:55,200 --> 00:47:57,700
you know like the media just 
takes that face value. 

1002
00:47:57,700 --> 00:48:00,300
There's very little like he's 
not a total idiot. 

1003
00:48:00,300 --> 00:48:04,000
Like why is he deciding to say 
that it might go bankrupt and I 

1004
00:48:04,000 --> 00:48:07,400
do think there's an argument 
that it's like tank expectations

1005
00:48:07,700 --> 00:48:11,000
and then and then go from there.
Yeah, the only thing, the only 

1006
00:48:11,000 --> 00:48:13,600
two reasons that make me a 
little bit, skeptical about that

1007
00:48:13,600 --> 00:48:16,900
narrative and then I'll push to 
you guys is like one that 

1008
00:48:16,900 --> 00:48:19,500
actually really does damage your
relationship with advertisers. 

1009
00:48:19,700 --> 00:48:22,500
The the worst things look will 
cause Cause them to want to pull

1010
00:48:22,500 --> 00:48:24,000
their money. 
So it is kind of like a 

1011
00:48:24,000 --> 00:48:27,400
self-fulfilling prophecy. 
And I mean Eli, may just not 

1012
00:48:27,400 --> 00:48:29,400
know that because he doesn't 
know shit about advertising. 

1013
00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,100
So that's, you know, he could 
end up, you know, in trying to 

1014
00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:36,200
create the sense of urgency 
actually create real urgency. 

1015
00:48:36,500 --> 00:48:38,500
And the other thing is that if 
you fucking read the text 

1016
00:48:38,500 --> 00:48:41,300
messages on Ilan, it really 
seems that they just have no 

1017
00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:43,500
clue what they're doing. 
They went into this thing with 

1018
00:48:43,500 --> 00:48:46,700
no real ideas. 
It just was like snowballed and 

1019
00:48:46,700 --> 00:48:49,400
and got out of control and this 
does kind of seem like the old 

1020
00:48:49,400 --> 00:48:51,500
so they're not seemingly smarter
than you think. 

1021
00:48:51,700 --> 00:48:52,800
Yeah. 
Yes. 

1022
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:55,500
Oh shit. 
So you know, I want to leave 

1023
00:48:55,500 --> 00:48:57,500
open the possibility. 
This place won't burn down to 

1024
00:48:57,500 --> 00:49:01,000
the ground in a couple of weeks.
But man if you read the stories 

1025
00:49:01,000 --> 00:49:02,500
it seems like it will. 
I don't know. 

1026
00:49:02,500 --> 00:49:03,900
What do you guys think? 
I'm trying. 

1027
00:49:03,900 --> 00:49:06,300
I'm trying to spend I don't 
know. 

1028
00:49:06,800 --> 00:49:12,200
We can I divulge we've moved our
group TM off of off of Twitter 

1029
00:49:12,200 --> 00:49:14,600
to Signal. 
Yeah yeah that huge blow right? 

1030
00:49:16,800 --> 00:49:19,900
Proprietary scoop must credit 
dead cat podcast. 

1031
00:49:20,900 --> 00:49:22,600
Yeah. 
No I'm I mean, I'm definitely 

1032
00:49:22,600 --> 00:49:26,200
concerned about just as a user, 
you know, he spends too much 

1033
00:49:26,200 --> 00:49:29,100
time on it, like I'm finding it 
much, much, much less useful 

1034
00:49:29,100 --> 00:49:31,200
than it's ever been. 
The problem is greeting every 

1035
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:32,700
other second, so, maybe that's 
it. 

1036
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:35,700
I say, I say, as I've literally 
on Twitter right now running at 

1037
00:49:35,700 --> 00:49:39,100
we try to do, I want Erica 
table. 

1038
00:49:39,100 --> 00:49:44,600
Let me off their show, send it 
anyway. 

1039
00:49:46,800 --> 00:49:51,500
It's not useful anymore, but 
it's also so become so Central. 

1040
00:49:51,700 --> 00:49:54,500
And it wired in our brains it's 
a huge part of my brain. 

1041
00:49:54,900 --> 00:49:56,200
Yeah. 
Did you want that to be the 

1042
00:49:56,200 --> 00:49:56,700
case? 
Eric? 

1043
00:49:56,700 --> 00:50:00,100
Or is that just like just my my 
it's I've said this before, but 

1044
00:50:00,100 --> 00:50:04,200
it is literally where the 
universe exists to me like that.

1045
00:50:04,200 --> 00:50:08,300
More than the real world is 
like, what is happening in the 

1046
00:50:08,300 --> 00:50:09,700
world. 
Like it's hard to understate 

1047
00:50:09,700 --> 00:50:13,400
that I have gone on what I mean.
After college, I hiked the 

1048
00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:16,200
Appalachian Trail for a month 
and that was like half of the 

1049
00:50:16,207 --> 00:50:19,300
motivation for that was like a 
digital detox and your brain is 

1050
00:50:19,300 --> 00:50:21,900
like totally different. 
After that. 

1051
00:50:21,900 --> 00:50:24,900
And I really need to do a lot 
more work and I'm trying to get 

1052
00:50:24,900 --> 00:50:28,400
better of like, really not 
looking in my phone for hours on

1053
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:30,400
end. 
But I am, my brain is like 

1054
00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,500
trained to just like wake up and
look at Twitter notifications, 

1055
00:50:33,500 --> 00:50:35,400
it's dark. 
Yeah, yeah. 

1056
00:50:35,400 --> 00:50:39,500
But we all need to rethink our 
relationships with and this 

1057
00:50:39,500 --> 00:50:41,900
isn't the disease and this is a 
good opportunity to do it, 

1058
00:50:41,900 --> 00:50:43,300
right? 
I mean this is like a forcing 

1059
00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:45,300
function. 
Well, Tom and I were always I 

1060
00:50:45,300 --> 00:50:47,800
can't speak for you but we're 
always deleting apps from our 

1061
00:50:47,800 --> 00:50:49,200
photo. 
I mean Tom, you deleted Twitter 

1062
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:51,200
on your phone right? 
It's been off for a while but I 

1063
00:50:51,207 --> 00:50:53,300
would just Do it through the 
browser so that didn't really 

1064
00:50:53,300 --> 00:50:54,800
work at all. 
Like that's what a real junkie 

1065
00:50:54,800 --> 00:50:56,900
tidally Tick-Tock, you know, 
every other day. 

1066
00:50:56,900 --> 00:50:59,200
And then I'm like, I'm more like
whatever. 

1067
00:50:59,300 --> 00:51:00,800
Yeah. 
Now look, I've been off Twitter 

1068
00:51:00,800 --> 00:51:04,300
for it's been a week now. 
I will say that during the 

1069
00:51:04,300 --> 00:51:06,800
midterms it was a little sad, 
not being on there because it is

1070
00:51:06,800 --> 00:51:09,300
sometimes useful to see you know
the updates. 

1071
00:51:09,300 --> 00:51:12,000
Like there were people that 
published really valuable shit. 

1072
00:51:12,300 --> 00:51:14,600
Only on Twitter, you know, 
people like what's-his-name from

1073
00:51:14,600 --> 00:51:17,600
the cook political report and 
wasn't a Dave Wasserman. 

1074
00:51:17,600 --> 00:51:20,100
Like if you really want like 
that, you know, the inch by inch

1075
00:51:20,100 --> 00:51:22,600
progression of stuff like 
Twitter is useful for that 

1076
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:24,400
important people will make a 
call. 

1077
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:27,000
But on the flip side, like I 
felt like with the elections, I 

1078
00:51:27,000 --> 00:51:30,100
went to bed, woke up in the New 
York Times was like the same 

1079
00:51:30,100 --> 00:51:31,600
like nothing happened, like 
well-known. 

1080
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:33,900
Imagine, if you were just 
sitting on Twitter for like 

1081
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:37,000
hours all night, it's like 
nothing happened all night. 

1082
00:51:37,000 --> 00:51:39,200
Like you would have just been 
sitting there like with these 

1083
00:51:39,200 --> 00:51:41,100
dribs and drabs. 
Like totally made-up 

1084
00:51:41,100 --> 00:51:42,500
developments. 
Yeah. 

1085
00:51:42,500 --> 00:51:45,100
So I guess we can end this by 
saying there is a life outside 

1086
00:51:45,100 --> 00:51:46,500
of Twitter. 
I've done it for the last week. 

1087
00:51:46,500 --> 00:51:49,600
I can't say it's like mountains.
You're off your off. 

1088
00:51:49,800 --> 00:51:51,300
I'm off badly. 
Yeah. 

1089
00:51:51,700 --> 00:51:55,200
I'll probably be back in a month
or so I can't I wouldn't deprive

1090
00:51:55,200 --> 00:51:57,600
the problematic. 
When would this like a problem 

1091
00:51:57,600 --> 00:52:01,900
is that it's like basically 
become my entire writing news 

1092
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:04,300
consumption. 
You know like engine like I 

1093
00:52:04,308 --> 00:52:08,800
don't like I would venture to 
say that 90% of the news stories

1094
00:52:08,800 --> 00:52:12,300
I read are things from Twitter. 
Like I never go to like 

1095
00:52:12,300 --> 00:52:15,000
newyorktimes.com. 
So I feel like I feel like if I 

1096
00:52:15,008 --> 00:52:17,300
got off Twitter tomorrow I would
miss things. 

1097
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:19,100
Oh yeah. 
And I would meet I would need to

1098
00:52:19,100 --> 00:52:23,000
find some other way to Get that 
information, maybe, maybe maybe 

1099
00:52:23,000 --> 00:52:25,900
I could build healthier ways to 
get that information like 

1100
00:52:25,900 --> 00:52:28,100
through the hilariously or 
something. 

1101
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:30,000
Hilariously to bring this whole 
podcast. 

1102
00:52:30,000 --> 00:52:33,300
Full circle a couple of days 
ago, Katie sent a DM to Eric. 

1103
00:52:33,300 --> 00:52:35,600
And I and idea I'm like a, like 
a message to Eric and I and she 

1104
00:52:35,600 --> 00:52:38,200
was like, wait. 
So is FTX like dead or something

1105
00:52:38,500 --> 00:52:40,800
and I was like, no I think 
there's just some weird fight 

1106
00:52:40,800 --> 00:52:43,300
between s BF + CZ. 
I don't think there's anything 

1107
00:52:43,300 --> 00:52:45,400
more to it than that and that 
was literally like the you know,

1108
00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:48,600
the company was shutting down. 
So so yeah, you do miss things 

1109
00:52:48,600 --> 00:52:50,500
when you're not when you're not 
hooked into the feet and the 

1110
00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:52,400
you're saying the point of that.
Is that you weren't on 

1111
00:52:52,400 --> 00:52:53,700
Twitter's? 
You had no idea. 

1112
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:55,900
Yeah, it was like you at her and
I'm like, what are you talking? 

1113
00:52:55,900 --> 00:52:57,200
Yeah. 
What the fuck is wrong with you?

1114
00:52:57,200 --> 00:53:00,100
And I just like, hadn't like 
updated technium that recently. 

1115
00:53:00,100 --> 00:53:02,200
So yeah, you do miss things. 
The other, you know, the side 

1116
00:53:02,200 --> 00:53:04,000
pointed that is like, well, what
do you really miss? 

1117
00:53:04,000 --> 00:53:07,400
If it takes you an extra hour to
get some news and we're not 

1118
00:53:07,400 --> 00:53:10,600
regular like because I mean part
one of the answers to how people

1119
00:53:10,600 --> 00:53:13,500
could Escape Twitter is like 
with newsletters that sort of 

1120
00:53:13,500 --> 00:53:16,000
round up like what the 
conversation is at any given 

1121
00:53:16,000 --> 00:53:18,000
moment. 
And so while that's good advice 

1122
00:53:18,000 --> 00:53:21,800
for other people at least for 
myself, you know, I would I'd be

1123
00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:24,300
writing the newsletter. 
So I need to sort of experience 

1124
00:53:24,300 --> 00:53:26,900
Witter for other people. 
Now, if you're like a, I think 

1125
00:53:26,900 --> 00:53:29,400
if you're doing more step back 
pieces, investigative pieces 

1126
00:53:29,400 --> 00:53:31,900
magazine pieces, maybe don't 
feel that way. 

1127
00:53:31,900 --> 00:53:35,500
And and so more reporters could 
Escape Twitter pay for Teddy. 

1128
00:53:35,600 --> 00:53:38,000
Hey for Eric pay for Insider. 
That's all you need. 

1129
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:39,400
Get off Twitter. 
Web does nothing. 

1130
00:53:39,800 --> 00:53:41,100
There it is. 
That's my closing statement. 

1131
00:53:41,100 --> 00:53:43,000
Alright, thanks so much for 
coming back on. 

1132
00:53:43,200 --> 00:53:45,200
What have you? 
Got your third or second? 

1133
00:53:45,700 --> 00:53:47,800
It's fine. 
Yeah, it's just her fourth. 

1134
00:53:48,100 --> 00:53:49,300
Now it's your third eye. 
Thank you. 

1135
00:53:49,300 --> 00:53:51,400
Get your 3 star. 
What? 

1136
00:53:51,500 --> 00:53:54,400
Erina, what? 
Saranac 3, yeah, well Karen 

1137
00:53:54,400 --> 00:53:59,600
Griffith, keep at it, keep it in
trying to make it spicy for your

1138
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:02,300
that's what we need. 
Like if you want this to be like

1139
00:54:02,300 --> 00:54:04,500
you know Sports podcast need to 
have some more beefs. 

1140
00:54:04,700 --> 00:54:06,900
All right thanks hon. 
Thanks 

1141
00:54:20,500 --> 00:54:22,700
goodbye. 
Bye good, bye good. 

1142
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:24,000
Bye good. 
Bye good. 

1143
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:22,700
Bye. 
Bye good, bye good. 

1144
00:54:22,700 --> 00:54:24,000
Bye good. 
Bye good. 

1145
00:54:24,000 --> 00:54:24,100
Bye.