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Welcome. 
So what kind of salad? 

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Hey, it's Eric newcomer, welcome
to dead cat. 

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Tom do it on? 
Is here, we've got Logan, 

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Bartlett VC. 
But more importantly a rival. 

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Podcaster, what your Cartoon 
Avatar? 

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I also profiled him a while ago.
Sting is it a zero-sum game? 

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It's a rising tide lifts All 
Ships here. 

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That's true. 
But I used to promotion, to t.j.

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to have enemies than friends, 
right? 

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I mean, I feel like few, you 
know what cartoon avatars is 

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your enemy. 
It's very clear what our enemy 

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can be, you're going after the 
wrong and wrong to be see how 

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we're competitors in both the. 
We would like to be a foil to 

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all in know. 
Yeah, exactly the modestly 

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successful like, you know, 
up-and-coming, VC, trying to get

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by versus the self-proclaimed 
billionaires that are all 

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navel-gazing, which one makes it
better for Oh, I don't know. 

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We can say at this podcast 
currently there is zero people 

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that appeared in Elon Musk text 
messages so far as I can tell. 

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Yeah, yeah, exactly. 
How long have you been at 

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cartoon avatars, by the way, 
beginning of February. 

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So originally actually, I give 
those guys a lot of credit in 

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the impetus for doing it. 
And so it was last fall probably

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a year ago that the market was 
super crazy and I was seeing the

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success that they were having. 
And obviously they do a good job

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with one type of content, right?
And one I mean, they all had 

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different voices but so you're 
saying all in all in. 

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Yeah. 
And so I thought, originally 

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that I could be a foil to that 
in some ways and so it was 

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actually, like originally trying
to recreate elements of what 

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they did, but maybe a little bit
more relatable to the non 

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billionaire class, but the 
format has evolved. 

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Originally, I to other people 
doing it with me. 

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Well, you at Nikita, who now has
like, viral apps success. 

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Right. 
What's it called? 

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It's crazy. 
Yes, what you have gas? 

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Is it doing well? 
That was number one on the app. 

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Yeah, it's like a dating type 
thing or to be honest, I do not 

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know there's bad blood x. 
No, no, guys, host you're done. 

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No, I'm trying to get him to 
come back on. 

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We're still buddies. 
But what actually happened was, 

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he was starting this company and
he got distracted with, you 

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know, actually doing his day 
job. 

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So it kind of evolved to just me
and then just me plus sack 

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Weinberg. 
And so we've been in our current

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iteration ish, probably since 
April, I would say. 

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So I don't know how you score 
it. 

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Yeah. 
All right. 

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Well, we're here today. 
This is a fun episode, so I want

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to just sort of shoot the shit 
but Insider wrote, what would 

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you call it? 
Like an explosive story 

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headline. 
I made two hundred thousand 

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dollars last year. 
Ghost. 

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Writing tweets for Superstar 
VCS, it takes me 5 hours a week.

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Here's how I found my clients 
and built a booming side, hustle

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from scratch and it's basically 
sort of adds told to story of 

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someone they claim they got like
a hundred thousand dollars. 

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River Tweed storming like a big 
funding round. 

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I mean, just a ton of money and 
it's definitely traveling the VC

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world because, you know, it fits
into this whole sort of, I don't

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know, VC's as content, marketers
as sort of celebrities thing VC 

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says influencers. 
Right? 

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Right. 
I mean, it was like a big story 

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three or four years ago in your 
an influencer, right? 

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That's right. 
Yeah. 

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Logan understands this I'm just 
trying to subtly shape people 

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into my World Views one Twitter 
post at a time. 

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Yeah you know it was interesting
people have been poking around 

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at this story for a little 
while. 

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I'll add a Washington Post 
reporter reach out to me like 

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three months ago and they were 
like I heard, you're someone, I 

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should talk to about this and 
about specifically the paid for 

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tweets issue. 
I couldn't tell like what their 

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angle was if they were trying to
get me to say that I pay for 

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tweets or something. 
Yeah. 

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And so I got on the phone with 
her and I was like, listen, if 

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someone saying that, let's be 
very clear. 

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No, I am not doing that, I'll 
hundred percent. 

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If you're going to run that, I 
am going to like, get on a bully

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pulpit and call you Al Her, 
you're gonna see me go fake news

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on. 
This, was that the claim that 

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they came out? 
No, no, just like, oh, you're 

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one of those annoying, VCS on 
Twitter and you might be a great

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person to enter that. 
We was more like you would have 

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an opinion about this. 
I think was her angle, but I was

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immediately, like, if someone is
selling my name, like the 

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originality is of my tweets. 
I will come for them, right? 

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So, I immediately got defensive 
because I knew that this article

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one. 
Listen, it's logical that people

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are doing this right in a very 
high level. 

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Hey, Is there a opportunity in 
Arbitrage that exists from very 

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well paid people that maybe 
don't have a lot of time or 

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don't have a lot of creativity 
to come up with stuff like this 

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and then very creative people 
that have lots of time and don't

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have a lot of money. 
Like is there an Arbitrage 

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opportunity that exists there? 
Yes, my criticism with this 

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article is not that. 
It's not happening because I 

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have to think it is right. 
You know. 

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I don't want to undermine 
Business Insider's reporting. 

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It seems like they have And 
stamps and, you know, wire 

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receipts and all that. 
There were enough little details

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in this story that just like, 
didn't ring true to me that I'm 

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not, and we can go through and 
talk about some of the specific 

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one. 
Like, yeah, let's deconstruct 

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it. 
By the way, I had nothing to do 

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with this story. 
So I feel confident in being 

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able to read this article, I'll 
leave commentary. 

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That's critical to you guys. 
Well, to be fair like insiders 

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defense, right? 
It's an As Told to, right? 

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It's a zoo. 
So like a bit, you know, Insider

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validated the Is identity, 
right? 

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They validated some form of 
wire, receipts. 

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And so I think there's enough of
a story there or that, that 

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alone is interesting, right? 
This whole thing is interesting,

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just from like a palace Intrigue
and you know, whenever we can 

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talk about all the different 
things so before we get into 

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the, did it happen? 
Exactly like this article lays 

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out, I just want to touch on why
there would be demand for this 

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in the first place like Logan. 
I've written a story about you 

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which I called a Twitter trolls 
take on the future of investing.

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So your son. 
Who's very clearly in a sort of 

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Envy speak, even laid out to 
your El. 

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Psy like tweeting and podcasting
is important to be seized right 

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now. 
But yeah, explain that to our 

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audience. 
Why would there even be a market

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for like, who cares would have 
EC tweets? 

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So I think we talked a little 
bit about this in that article 

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that you did. 
But once upon a time, let's say 

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early 2000. 
BC was very much a cottage 

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industry where VC's controlled 
capital and Founders came to 

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them. 
Them looking for access to that 

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Capital, right? 
And diligence process has lasted

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a long time and entrepreneurs 
had to jump through hoops. 

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And ultimately it was only a 
handful of mostly white men that

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sort of controlled the purse 
strings of, who got funded, and 

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who didn't write. 
And then over the course of the 

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last 20 years, I sort of call 
that like the broadcast 

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television days is those were 
the days in which you know, your

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only job is a VC was to be 
broadly appealing. 

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So as not to be Two ended not be
eliminated from this little boys

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club cottage industry, right? 
And really you needed to suck up

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to the other, VCS more than 
anything because you're great 

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deal flow from them, it was sort
of protected you just wanted a 

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generic good brand, you know, I 
mean there was still sort of a 

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you want to be, you know, you 
want to have a little bit of 

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spiciness because it's not 
banking, you know, it's Venture 

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but yeah, yeah. 
But even still like sure, you 

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hear stories of Sequoia and 
Kleiner duking it out for like 

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Google and stuff. 
But like for the Most part it 

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was much more collegial and how 
it operated. 

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And then I sort of Market 2008. 
Ish, post-financial crisis 

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happens to coincide with the 
Andreessen Horowitz coming up. 

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Fred Wilson was vlogging in a 
meaningful way, right? 

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Like all these Twitter was kind 
of proliferating as a medium. 

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This is the cable television. 
Yeah. 

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Cable. 
We're broadcasting cable, right?

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Where there's some level of 
personalization that exists, 

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right? 
And so, like, you have funds 

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that starts focusing on. 
Oh, we're a growth only. 

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Find Ray like once upon a time 
that was not a thing. 

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But now we're going to only do 
growth. 

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There were only going to do 
fintech or we're only going to 

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do Healthcare right and VC 
started to. 

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I think the Andreessen Horowitz 
folks did a good job of like 

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pulling back the veil a little 
bit in terms of how the industry

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operated and you know Ben 
Horowitz was leading with rap 

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posts at the beginning of his 
article right and there was just

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a little bit more personality 
that existed there. 

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We've had Parker Conrad on the 
show before and he obviously has

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specific a feelings about 
Andreessen Horowitz. 

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But his line that stuck with me 
is that they're basically a 

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media company with an investment
arm attached to it. 

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Yeah. 
Parker's the fucking best I had 

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him on and he went in but you 
had a great. 

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Yeah he went into depth about 
Andreessen Horowitz was an 

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interesting that episode first. 
He was our first guests, what 

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great job interviewing him. 
And for some reason he decided 

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to go like full Hit Em Up On 
David Sachs and then were we 

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sort of warmed him up. 
He was a little Paranoid on ours

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and then he was like, okay 
nothing bad happened to me when 

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I did that. 
And, you know, you got an even. 

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That's right. 
You prime the pump for? 

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Yeah, exactly. 
You were my opening act, okay? 

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Then the next era post-2020 is 
the streaming are. 

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Then the next day, right now, as
capital got abundant right? 

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Like you sort of got your 
infinite choice of what type of 

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capital you wanted. 
And if you wanted a fintech, 

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only early stage fund, that was 
backed by whatever former has 

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bananas. 
It's Avatar. 

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We are what? 
Yeah, yeah, you got all your 

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choices, right. 
And so we enter the Cartoon 

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Network are A Avicii, the 
Cartoon Network area. 

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I say it's sort of tick-tock 
personalization, where 

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everything you like, have your 
option of like any personalized 

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feed of capital provider and I 
think that has been true. 

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Now with the pullback may be 
less, and we'll do they that 

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after that's sort of the next 
logical. 

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So, but going into the bubble 
and I think this like insiders 

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story about paying for tweets is
sort of, you know, it's 

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reflecting a period that might 
be ending or might continue, but

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sort of at least until the And 
of, like last year in the first 

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quarter of this year, this was 
the streaming Wars idea was like

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very much the mood. 
Yeah. 

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Where everyone was just trying 
to cut through the noise, right?

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00:10:10,300 --> 00:10:12,600
And I said this, Eric when I was
talking to you about this, in 

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the thing we did is like it's 
better to be Donald Trump than 

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00:10:15,900 --> 00:10:18,000
it is to be Jeb, Bush and 
Venture. 

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00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,700
And it's kind of like this that,
you know, even comparing 

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anything to Donald Trump is 
polarizing, but we don't live in

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00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,700
a ranked Choice world of venture
capital. 

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00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,800
It's like to be second is to be 
a loser, right? 

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00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:31,400
And the same thing. 
As in the primary process where 

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if you're going through 
primaries right? 

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You want to appeal deeply to as 
big of a subset of the 

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population as you can but it's 
much better to appeal very 

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00:10:40,100 --> 00:10:45,100
deeply to a smaller group than 
it is to be milquetoast or like 

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00:10:45,100 --> 00:10:48,600
broadly, kind of rice and 
likable to a broader group, 

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00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:50,300
right? 
Are you willing to be mean 

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00:10:50,300 --> 00:10:52,600
enough? 
Do you have the hatred in your 

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00:10:52,600 --> 00:10:53,800
heart? 
And not like, no. 

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00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:55,800
I'm being sincere though. 
I mean I feel like there is 

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00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,200
almost an incentive to be like 
Keith and really like fighting 

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with people on Twitter. 
Do you always adhere to your own

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00:11:01,200 --> 00:11:03,900
principle on this or like are 
you intentionally alienating 

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subsets of people go to I don't 
push to the outer end a 

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polarization right for sure. 
Like that's just not my 

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00:11:09,700 --> 00:11:14,300
personality but I have pushed 
the outer end of certain types 

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of content. 
For example like I think I was 

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fucking around on Twitter and 
playing more of a Stephen 

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00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:26,200
Colbert, ish parody personality.
We first interacted you tweeted 

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a joke like a fake email or 
something I was sort of Due to 

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your account and I was like the 
scold who is like, you know, 

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half the people consuming this 
don't realize it's fake and like

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that was back in the days where 
I was like, oh chase down dumb 

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shit on Twitter or whatever I 
think you might I forget if you 

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00:11:42,208 --> 00:11:44,800
deleted that or not you were 
sort of now. 

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I didn't delete it. 
And no, come on because I got 

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00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:49,500
scolded by are no Dumber. 
Come on. 

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That was like with there are 
some I mean you want the parody 

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00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:56,300
be to be obvious to a certain 
percentage of people, right? 

241
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Or I don't know this week and 
yeah that's all day. 

242
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Like how many people need to 
know? 

243
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It's Joke for it. 
To make sense. 

244
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Yeah. 
And like who you're appealing to

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00:12:03,400 --> 00:12:04,800
and not. 
But to some extent, there's this

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element of people feeling like 
they're on the end on the joke 

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and then when it goes outside 
the bubble of the people that 

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are in on the joke, it actually 
makes the joke better to those. 

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People that role that side right
wing troll type but it's very 

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00:12:15,300 --> 00:12:17,500
mean-spirited. 
That idea that you're happy 

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about it. 
Let's zoom in towards the 

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article and we can debate the 
higher level stuff after way and

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tries. 
You know, like you're saying. 

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I think the article capture is a
specific point in time. 

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Maybe one that is ending, but 
it's absolutely something that I

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imagined. 
CCS recognized at a certain 

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point, which is like, oh shit, 
I'm getting attention for this. 

258
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I've developed a personality and
this may actually have 

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Downstream effects, beneficial 
Downstream effects towards deal 

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flow. 
And, you know, it seems like 

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it's just feeding my ego like 
from the outside if you wouldn't

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00:12:45,700 --> 00:12:48,300
think about how it could 
potentially help you in your, 

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00:12:48,300 --> 00:12:50,500
you know, actual day job, you 
would think, oh, this is just 

264
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narcissism and that, you know, 
the base horrible Instinct that 

265
00:12:53,800 --> 00:12:56,500
fuels all of the bullshit on 
Twitter, but it sounds like 

266
00:12:56,500 --> 00:12:59,400
you're saying that there's, you 
know, real Financial upside to 

267
00:12:59,400 --> 00:13:00,900
it. 
We should you get everyone to 

268
00:13:00,900 --> 00:13:02,900
remember, you exist? 
I mean, as a newsletter writer 

269
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it's like if you like everybody 
returns my texts and emails, 

270
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whenever I publish and like 
similarly I think when you're 

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tweeting a lot, people are 
thinking about you more, and you

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can feel the inbound come at 
you. 

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And so I can imagine from the 
VCR perspective, it's a lot. 

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Like the me, I should go look at
like the actual report because I

275
00:13:18,800 --> 00:13:21,300
referenced it too many times so 
I should get my facts right on 

276
00:13:21,300 --> 00:13:23,300
this. 
But there were some study done 

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right about like people that 
were shown a list of names of 

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people like six weeks before, 
Anna. 

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Election. 
And then when the election came 

280
00:13:32,200 --> 00:13:34,300
to be, they didn't know any of 
the candidates. 

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00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:36,700
But just based on the 
familiarity of having seen those

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00:13:36,700 --> 00:13:39,700
names before, they're like 
proclivity to pick those 

283
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candidates. 
And so it's hard to know right? 

284
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What you don't see is the 
negative of it particularly as 

285
00:13:45,600 --> 00:13:48,800
you pick a more polarizing view 
of stuff, right? 

286
00:13:48,800 --> 00:13:51,200
And you're like joking around 
and I've gotten yelled at online

287
00:13:51,200 --> 00:13:53,600
before you don't see how many 
people are kind of like fuck 

288
00:13:53,600 --> 00:13:57,900
this guy right but the advantage
of just name recognition and 

289
00:13:57,900 --> 00:13:59,600
people knowing you exist in the 
world. 

290
00:13:59,700 --> 00:14:01,300
Olds. 
I've seen it be super 

291
00:14:01,300 --> 00:14:04,900
advantageous for me and just 
cutting through the noise at an 

292
00:14:04,900 --> 00:14:07,100
incremental level. 
I mean, who am I right? 

293
00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:11,000
I'm 34 years old, Finance, 
background liberal arts school. 

294
00:14:11,000 --> 00:14:14,100
Major have never been an 
operator like have had a decent 

295
00:14:14,100 --> 00:14:16,900
investing career experience. 
But like you know, why would 

296
00:14:16,900 --> 00:14:19,200
anyone want to work with me 
versus? 

297
00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:21,300
I don't know. 
X other person that has had 

298
00:14:21,300 --> 00:14:24,200
infinitely more success and 
infinite more like operating 

299
00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,200
experience or whatever, right? 
And if people feel like they 

300
00:14:27,200 --> 00:14:29,600
know me a little bit more and 
they feel like there's a little 

301
00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:32,800
bit bit more personality there. 
I've seen it be effective, 

302
00:14:32,800 --> 00:14:34,600
right? 
And so, I don't know how much to

303
00:14:34,600 --> 00:14:37,200
actually attribute it to this. 
It's one of these like brand 

304
00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:39,900
marketing, how do you even come 
up with Roi or anything? 

305
00:14:39,900 --> 00:14:42,400
But I can tell you anecdotally. 
It's been impactful. 

306
00:14:42,500 --> 00:14:45,700
I mean it's funny Logan that 
like why VCS and journalists are

307
00:14:45,700 --> 00:14:48,200
at each other's throat. 
A lot on Twitter when there's 

308
00:14:48,200 --> 00:14:52,300
actually very similar impulses 
and downstream effects to being 

309
00:14:52,300 --> 00:14:55,200
obnoxious on Twitter, that maybe
that's the reason why they don't

310
00:14:55,200 --> 00:14:56,900
get along. 
Because in the same way that 

311
00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:00,000
capital is a commodity facts are
ultimately a Aditi. 

312
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,200
Right? 
We're just trying to gather 

313
00:15:01,200 --> 00:15:03,900
facts from people inside 
companies and when it comes down

314
00:15:03,900 --> 00:15:06,100
to it through the internet, it's
all compressed through the same 

315
00:15:06,100 --> 00:15:08,200
pipes. 
And so a big story that comes 

316
00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:12,500
out through insider versus the 
information versus even the 

317
00:15:12,500 --> 00:15:14,300
Washington Post. 
I think the New York Times is 

318
00:15:14,300 --> 00:15:16,900
maybe the one that's slightly 
different, but by and large, you

319
00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:19,400
know, when you push these things
through the same place, it's all

320
00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:21,100
the same. 
And so you kind of got to figure

321
00:15:21,300 --> 00:15:23,900
how can I get these people that 
have the information to want, to

322
00:15:23,900 --> 00:15:27,200
talk to me, and the outlet, or 
this tactic that certain 

323
00:15:27,200 --> 00:15:29,600
journalists take, which is to be
a personality. 

324
00:15:29,700 --> 00:15:31,600
He on Twitter, which I had. 
By the way, don't necessarily 

325
00:15:31,600 --> 00:15:34,000
agree with, but this is not an 
episode about journalists that 

326
00:15:34,000 --> 00:15:39,000
was a long subtweet of Ryan Mac 
by the way, but and you are. 

327
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:42,300
But anyway, I don't tweet that 
much and I should, sometimes I 

328
00:15:42,300 --> 00:15:44,600
should pay somebody. 
My question is, I mean, do you 

329
00:15:44,608 --> 00:15:46,900
know, I like to offer my 
services to journalists, by the 

330
00:15:46,900 --> 00:15:48,500
way, I can be your Ghostwriter 
number. 

331
00:15:48,500 --> 00:15:51,300
Your tweets should be good at 
tweeting but he doesn't have the

332
00:15:51,300 --> 00:15:54,700
followers to back it up. 
Or you don't know why I need to 

333
00:15:54,708 --> 00:15:56,900
go through other outlets? 
So journalists come to me. 

334
00:15:56,900 --> 00:15:59,000
I will go straight your tweets. 
I will complain about the New 

335
00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:00,800
York Times. 
Stealing your stories. 

336
00:16:00,800 --> 00:16:04,300
I can write those tweets. 
I can write sweet about 0 as we 

337
00:16:04,300 --> 00:16:07,200
previously reported, and then 
linking to a story that you 

338
00:16:07,200 --> 00:16:08,700
didn't write. 
I can do those. 

339
00:16:08,900 --> 00:16:11,600
Yeah, anyway, I'm sure there's a
Chinese menu of snarky 

340
00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,100
journalist tweets dying. 
Just go to the soundboard and 

341
00:16:14,100 --> 00:16:15,800
play the hits of all these 
things. 

342
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:18,700
Easy, what's the like pricing 
on? 

343
00:16:18,700 --> 00:16:21,100
Like the I feel like the thing 
that's hardest to believe on the

344
00:16:21,100 --> 00:16:23,900
Insiders Dory is just like how 
much, you know, two hundred 

345
00:16:23,900 --> 00:16:27,000
thousand last year at go 
straight in I mean I all the 

346
00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:28,500
time, can we just get to the 
story? 

347
00:16:28,500 --> 00:16:30,600
Then you want to just read it? 
We are talking about this area, 

348
00:16:30,600 --> 00:16:31,900
what you want to read this, 
okay? 

349
00:16:32,100 --> 00:16:34,100
I was going to read some 
paragraphs read, Summit, read 

350
00:16:34,100 --> 00:16:35,500
some of it. 
Okay? 

351
00:16:35,500 --> 00:16:38,100
So this is just the top here. 
Ghost writing tweets or venture 

352
00:16:38,100 --> 00:16:39,700
capitalist? 
Is my side hustle. 

353
00:16:40,100 --> 00:16:41,500
It's like the opening for 
Goodfellas. 

354
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:43,800
I like that last year. 
I made two hundred thousand, so 

355
00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:46,700
there's your number are if some 
VCS will pay you per tweet, I've

356
00:16:46,700 --> 00:16:49,300
done a hundred thousand threads 
to announce a big funding round.

357
00:16:49,500 --> 00:16:52,300
I've also done a hundred dollar 
tweets, other VCS pay you per 

358
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:55,500
month for 5,000 to 10,000. 
All right, ten original tweets, 

359
00:16:55,500 --> 00:16:57,700
a month and the rate goes up 
quickly from there. 

360
00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:00,400
So like this is right now the 
financial Or to buy these 

361
00:17:00,400 --> 00:17:01,900
numbers. 
Logan did they sound right to 

362
00:17:01,900 --> 00:17:03,300
you from what you've seen in the
community. 

363
00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:06,200
So we're usually they use a 
hundred thousand dollars for a 

364
00:17:06,200 --> 00:17:09,200
funding round announcement. 
That's what it sounds like a 

365
00:17:09,208 --> 00:17:11,000
thread. 
Yeah, I don't know. 

366
00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,800
I like hard for me to say it's 
one of these things like with 

367
00:17:13,800 --> 00:17:16,900
brand Marketing in general, how 
do you attribute, what anything 

368
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:19,400
is worth? 
And so, is it possible that 

369
00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,400
people would be willing to pay 
for something like this? 

370
00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:22,099
Yeah. 
Totally. 

371
00:17:22,099 --> 00:17:25,200
I guess it's totally possible 
where it sort of broke down for 

372
00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:27,700
me is the way this person talks 
about it. 

373
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:29,500
It makes it seem like it's this 
very liquid. 

374
00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,900
Good Market of like, you know, 
that there's some up work like 

375
00:17:32,900 --> 00:17:36,100
site in which people are bidding
jobs and, you know, okay, I'll 

376
00:17:36,100 --> 00:17:40,000
do this versus that and like 
this is my card rate for that 

377
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:44,000
kind of thing versus not. 
And I would think 125 250 

378
00:17:44,000 --> 00:17:47,000
clients across all of these 
different jobs. 

379
00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,700
Like I would think I would have 
some idea that this is like 

380
00:17:50,700 --> 00:17:53,900
going on or who this person you 
know that like people are doing 

381
00:17:53,900 --> 00:17:56,400
this in Mass. 
It wouldn't surprise me. 

382
00:17:56,500 --> 00:17:59,500
Hey, if an associate at a 
venture firm we're like, right? 

383
00:17:59,700 --> 00:18:01,400
Some tweets, right? 
Like that's definitely 

384
00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:03,000
happening. 
It wouldn't surprise me if there

385
00:18:03,000 --> 00:18:07,300
was like some comedian or some 
journalists who was like built a

386
00:18:07,308 --> 00:18:09,300
relationship. 
Hey, Eric and I have a 

387
00:18:09,300 --> 00:18:12,000
relationship and so Eric's 
writing and occasional like 

388
00:18:12,000 --> 00:18:14,300
thought piece for me on Twitter 
fright. 

389
00:18:14,300 --> 00:18:17,300
But like this liquid Market of 
all these different jobs that 

390
00:18:17,300 --> 00:18:19,800
are going on to the point that 
like the person's able to 

391
00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,300
consistently Bill five hours a 
week and two hundred thousand 

392
00:18:23,300 --> 00:18:25,200
dollars a year. 
That's where we're my bullshit 

393
00:18:25,200 --> 00:18:27,400
meter on. 
This was like that just doesn't 

394
00:18:27,400 --> 00:18:31,200
feel right to me, right? 
Or I'm totally obviated from 

395
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:33,600
this going on, which it would 
seem like something that I would

396
00:18:33,600 --> 00:18:36,000
be aware of, right? 
If it would seem if there's any 

397
00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,600
person that I think I would be 
on a short list of people, that 

398
00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:41,300
should know this is going on and
I didn't know this was going on.

399
00:18:41,300 --> 00:18:44,500
Everywhere is like podcasting 
you must get in your DMs all the

400
00:18:44,500 --> 00:18:46,000
time. 
Like people are like I can build

401
00:18:46,000 --> 00:18:49,600
your podcast like the 
distribution or there are all 

402
00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:54,000
these Hustlers around content 
products that promise they can 

403
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,600
do great stuff for you. 
But yeah this is what we don't 

404
00:18:56,600 --> 00:18:59,200
hear a chat about you. 
Do here like meme accounts often

405
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:03,200
I think Talk about how people DM
them, like draft, tweet ideas 

406
00:19:03,500 --> 00:19:05,700
for them to send out, right? 
I mean there's a level, like you

407
00:19:05,700 --> 00:19:09,700
get people who just like pitch, 
you like Logan style tweets, not

408
00:19:09,700 --> 00:19:12,900
random people, but buddies 
buddies, do all the time. 

409
00:19:12,900 --> 00:19:16,000
Probably have three friends. 
One in particular who will be 

410
00:19:16,000 --> 00:19:19,100
like, send me an idea and be 
like, hey, this is funny. 

411
00:19:19,100 --> 00:19:23,200
I can't say this, but is there 
something we can do about this 

412
00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:24,900
yzn? 
Would you pay me a hundred 

413
00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:29,400
thousand for it or yeah. 
What is there, what he said? 

414
00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:31,300
It to me, and he's like, what's 
all this in? 

415
00:19:31,300 --> 00:19:34,100
Kind friendship bullshit, that 
I've been getting from you of 

416
00:19:34,100 --> 00:19:37,200
like us brainstorming ideas. 
You know, why aren't I getting 

417
00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:39,500
hundreds of thousands of dollars
from you out of it? 

418
00:19:39,500 --> 00:19:42,900
So, I do feel bad, sometimes my 
friends will say something 

419
00:19:42,900 --> 00:19:44,900
clever and a text threatened. 
It's like, oh yeah, that's a 

420
00:19:44,900 --> 00:19:47,400
good idea. 
Like then he tweeted out you're 

421
00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:49,600
like oh, what a genius, you are.
I don't know. 

422
00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:53,000
I'm probably sort of higher on 
the level of like, want my 

423
00:19:53,000 --> 00:19:56,700
authentic ideas of my Twitter, 
then some, I don't know if they 

424
00:19:56,700 --> 00:19:58,900
send me want to keep going 
through like the things that 

425
00:19:59,700 --> 00:20:03,500
This article said, but I do 
think it's an interesting thing 

426
00:20:03,500 --> 00:20:07,600
of like the desire for 
authenticity that exists here. 

427
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,600
It would feel for some reason 
like a bait and switch, right? 

428
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:13,900
It's the Twitter Persona of the 
VCU were following wasn't 

429
00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:16,500
actually written by the person 
right there, right? 

430
00:20:16,500 --> 00:20:19,300
That would. 
But like we don't hold Trevor 

431
00:20:19,300 --> 00:20:21,200
Noah to the same. 
You know. 

432
00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:24,300
Like if you're like me started, 
do like people delude themselves

433
00:20:24,300 --> 00:20:27,900
on, they think of actors, is 
having said, the line, you know,

434
00:20:27,900 --> 00:20:30,700
like as actors it being there. 
R quote even though like 

435
00:20:30,700 --> 00:20:32,800
somebody else wrote it? 
Yeah, sure. 

436
00:20:32,900 --> 00:20:35,500
Or like a speechwriter. 
No one's like oh like Obama 

437
00:20:35,500 --> 00:20:36,700
wrote. 
This great speech. 

438
00:20:36,700 --> 00:20:39,300
Everyone like is a comfortable 
with the fact that Jon Favreau 

439
00:20:39,300 --> 00:20:42,300
probably wrote like all of the 
words and Obama just read it but

440
00:20:42,300 --> 00:20:45,500
for some reason this would feel 
very inauthentic and I'm not 

441
00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:49,100
totally sure what that is and 
why I would feel that way about 

442
00:20:49,100 --> 00:20:51,400
it. 
Like, why some things we accept 

443
00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:53,600
like, okay, there's going to be 
a full team, working and 

444
00:20:53,600 --> 00:20:56,500
writing, and all that versus 
other things were kind of like 

445
00:20:56,600 --> 00:20:57,400
it. 
Maybe it's because it's an 

446
00:20:57,408 --> 00:21:00,700
ancillary part of the job rather
than a Part of the job. 

447
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,100
And so we kind of just feels 
dirtier that way. 

448
00:21:03,100 --> 00:21:06,900
If you're just like grifting on 
your side part of your job, I 

449
00:21:06,900 --> 00:21:08,000
don't know. 
That feels like a little 

450
00:21:08,000 --> 00:21:10,800
weirder, but well, I think it 
also depends on how much of a 

451
00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:12,800
specifically identifiable 
character. 

452
00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,100
You have built as your Twitter 
presence that people would pay 

453
00:21:16,100 --> 00:21:18,500
attention, whether it feels 
authentic or not, right? 

454
00:21:18,500 --> 00:21:21,300
Because Trump, we know, while he
was on Twitter and I don't have 

455
00:21:21,300 --> 00:21:23,900
any idea with truth social, it 
was always like, oh, he didn't 

456
00:21:23,900 --> 00:21:26,200
write this one. 
Various people like in his orbit

457
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:28,700
that would write things for him.
Whereas, you know, at this point

458
00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:30,700
is like, who that isn't feel 
like a Keith for boy. 

459
00:21:30,800 --> 00:21:32,500
I don't know. 
Didn't have like the, you know, 

460
00:21:32,508 --> 00:21:35,300
the particular bitchiness that 
he's so good at but that's like 

461
00:21:35,300 --> 00:21:36,700
weird. 
Trump would have the ones that 

462
00:21:36,700 --> 00:21:39,400
are obviously, like he's right. 
And then the ones that were 

463
00:21:39,400 --> 00:21:41,800
like, didn't look anything like 
his. 

464
00:21:41,800 --> 00:21:44,300
But there I mean that almost 
speaks to, you know, he's style 

465
00:21:44,300 --> 00:21:46,400
really came through but his fans
don't hate. 

466
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:48,600
It is the thing, right? 
I mean like it's different 

467
00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,500
because people, you know, are 
clearly fixated on him but when 

468
00:21:52,500 --> 00:21:54,800
there were a couple of tweets 
that were like clearly not 

469
00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:56,300
written by him, people would be 
like that. 

470
00:21:56,300 --> 00:21:58,100
Well that's just Trump being 
Trump, you know like if there 

471
00:21:58,100 --> 00:22:00,900
were a couple of I don't know. 
Good example, in the VC world 

472
00:22:00,900 --> 00:22:05,600
would be who are the top 10 
right off the Dome, big hitters 

473
00:22:05,600 --> 00:22:08,700
of VC, Twitter and your mind 
Logan. 

474
00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,300
Let's go right now. 
Well, I think Andreessen right 

475
00:22:12,300 --> 00:22:15,300
there now he's just changes the 
status now but whenever he comes

476
00:22:15,300 --> 00:22:18,700
back you know, I don't know. 
I mean there was like a four 

477
00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:22,000
week period where it felt like 
every week there was some new 

478
00:22:22,000 --> 00:22:24,400
topic about it was all related 
to his tweeting. 

479
00:22:24,400 --> 00:22:27,500
So I would be hard-pressed to 
not read him high on the list. 

480
00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:29,700
Absolutely. 
I mean Keith obviously We've 

481
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:33,900
referenced he has and that is 
one of the main ones out there. 

482
00:22:34,000 --> 00:22:39,200
His brand is just saying, no, 
yeah, violation. 

483
00:22:39,200 --> 00:22:41,100
He gets into fights with random 
people. 

484
00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,100
Probably most of them are bought
saying, I know more about this 

485
00:22:44,100 --> 00:22:46,400
topic than you'll know about 
anything your whole life or 

486
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:48,200
whatever. 
Yeah, yeah, I love it. 

487
00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:49,400
I love it. 
Yeah, he's excellent. 

488
00:22:49,500 --> 00:22:51,200
Honestly, I've talked to him 
about that. 

489
00:22:51,200 --> 00:22:53,400
We did interview on the podcast 
with him and one of the things 

490
00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:57,800
he said was like a lot of the 
stuff he learned, it was like PR

491
00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,400
stuff. 
He employed at Square. 

492
00:23:00,100 --> 00:23:02,400
Of Psych. 
Hey, and this is just a 

493
00:23:02,408 --> 00:23:06,300
statement about the social apps 
as well as Humanity probably use

494
00:23:06,300 --> 00:23:09,000
like engaging in good. 
Faith discussion is just such a 

495
00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,600
losing battle. 
I'm saying wrong saying, wrong 

496
00:23:12,600 --> 00:23:14,200
or late? 
You're a moron right? 

497
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:17,200
Is like, how does someone come 
back from that, right? 

498
00:23:17,400 --> 00:23:20,200
So he's like, I just kind of 
learned, that's the better way 

499
00:23:20,200 --> 00:23:23,300
of approaching these, which is 
just like a such a thing in of 

500
00:23:23,300 --> 00:23:30,300
America and realpolitik. 
Yeah, Because we all kind of 

501
00:23:30,300 --> 00:23:32,800
know where morons and so when 
you call them out is that 

502
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:35,700
because we often haven't spent 
the time to fully understand 

503
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:37,900
what we're writing that when 
someone's like no you're just 

504
00:23:37,900 --> 00:23:39,400
wrong. 
You're like, oh shit, I probably

505
00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:41,700
am. 
So it's a smart move on his part

506
00:23:41,700 --> 00:23:44,200
and then you want to come back 
though because your job is 

507
00:23:44,200 --> 00:23:47,300
rooted, in fact, right? 
In like actually having 

508
00:23:47,300 --> 00:23:49,900
substance to back things up and 
then you're coming back with 

509
00:23:49,900 --> 00:23:52,300
like no Keith. 
Here's the three rings and 

510
00:23:52,300 --> 00:23:54,600
you're wrong and at that point 
you've already lost, you know 

511
00:23:54,600 --> 00:23:57,700
and he like does it poop emoji 
and you know whatever right now 

512
00:23:57,700 --> 00:23:59,000
you're done right, we've moved 
on. 

513
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:00,000
Yeah it does. 
Matter. 

514
00:24:00,100 --> 00:24:02,700
Okay, so we got Keith, we got 
and reason. 

515
00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:04,800
Gosh, who else does a really 
good job? 

516
00:24:04,800 --> 00:24:06,700
I mean, I feel like Jai you 
know, it's a different style, 

517
00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,300
Josh Wolf, I think is always 
actually posting interesting 

518
00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,400
kind of substantive stuff. 
Yeah out there and I have a lot 

519
00:24:12,400 --> 00:24:14,800
of respect for Josh. 
I mean I love my occasional 

520
00:24:14,800 --> 00:24:18,900
podcast co-host is Zach Weinberg
who has battled Keith quite a 

521
00:24:18,908 --> 00:24:21,400
bit but he's always an 
entertaining personality 

522
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:23,400
tweeting. 
I mean Steve it's axes. 

523
00:24:23,400 --> 00:24:26,900
Bigger house acts duh though. 
It's mostly like let's let 

524
00:24:26,900 --> 00:24:29,800
Russia and behold the whole 
world sort of hold Thing. 

525
00:24:29,800 --> 00:24:32,700
Yeah, in calacanis probably, you
know, I don't know if you call 

526
00:24:32,700 --> 00:24:35,400
him a VC or whatever you call 
them, the calacanis, it's 

527
00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:37,500
always, you know, like him. 
So sure. 

528
00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:39,400
He give you see that's a 
compliment. 

529
00:24:39,500 --> 00:24:42,800
I mean, Paul G blocked me for a 
long time, but when he tweets, 

530
00:24:42,900 --> 00:24:45,900
it's still. 
Is you Tweeting his hologram? 

531
00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:47,200
Yeah. 
And Balaji 2008. 

532
00:24:47,900 --> 00:24:50,700
I mean, navall is sort of 
falling off, right? 

533
00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:52,800
Or like, I don't see this. 
Yeah sweetie. 

534
00:24:52,800 --> 00:24:54,800
Yeah. 
I mean he's like tweeting like 

535
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:58,000
cones of now like he's like the 
Buddha or something. 

536
00:24:58,000 --> 00:24:59,300
I haven't seen him to eat as 
much. 

537
00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:01,700
I Just always try to reply to 
the Vol when he would say 

538
00:25:01,700 --> 00:25:05,100
something and he came up to me 
at a party one time and we had 

539
00:25:05,100 --> 00:25:07,200
never met before. 
And now we just like reply with,

540
00:25:07,400 --> 00:25:11,300
you know, he would say the most 
important thing in life is the 

541
00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:14,000
decision of where you live. 
And I said, like, no Vols wife 

542
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:16,700
reading this like, you know, 
shaking my head or something, 

543
00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:18,500
right? 
And he came up to me one time at

544
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:20,900
a party, and he has so many 
followers, and get so many 

545
00:25:20,900 --> 00:25:22,500
replies, right? 
And so, I just thought I was, 

546
00:25:22,500 --> 00:25:25,100
like, some random ass and just 
like, making myself, laugh. 

547
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:28,000
And he came up to me and he was 
like, you motherfucker, he's 

548
00:25:28,000 --> 00:25:31,400
like, I've wanted to block you 
So many times, I got the thought

549
00:25:31,400 --> 00:25:34,600
of blocking you so many times 
and then every third time you'll

550
00:25:34,600 --> 00:25:37,800
really make me laugh. 
And so I like convince myself 

551
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:39,700
that I should and I was like, oh
thanks snowball. 

552
00:25:39,700 --> 00:25:42,100
I appreciate that. 
Now that he was prolific, I 

553
00:25:42,100 --> 00:25:45,200
think the thing is it Ebbs and 
flows, right? 

554
00:25:45,200 --> 00:25:47,400
Like Twitter in general is a 
medium just kind of Ebbs and 

555
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,000
flows and that's one of the 
things I found is like in 

556
00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:52,400
tweeting. 
I've sort of you're not as hot 

557
00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:54,600
as you were. 
Yeah, I'm now sort of focus on 

558
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:58,000
the podcasting thing because you
sort of figure out a form factor

559
00:25:58,000 --> 00:26:02,200
that works and then your Come 
because of that form factor or 

560
00:26:02,200 --> 00:26:04,200
style, right? 
And there's really only two ways

561
00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:07,400
to grow in a meaningful way. 
On Twitter, it's like jokes and 

562
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:10,400
shit posts or like threads. 
Those are some really only two 

563
00:26:10,500 --> 00:26:12,900
more Scoops, but sir, we are 
your way. 

564
00:26:12,900 --> 00:26:17,400
Yeah, it's a lot of it does. 
I mean, that's all I have. 

565
00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,500
I mean, I have more newsletter 
subscribers and Twitter 

566
00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:23,600
followers, which speaks to which
medium, yeah, more successful 

567
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:24,700
on. 
Yeah. 

568
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,300
But the thing is, once you get 
to a certain level, it's kind of

569
00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:30,800
like you start to box yourself 
in In to that's what people want

570
00:26:30,800 --> 00:26:32,100
from you, right? 
And I always think of the 

571
00:26:32,108 --> 00:26:35,100
Wedding Crasher scene where it's
like make me a bicycle clown and

572
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,100
it's like whenever I would 
deviate from something they'd be

573
00:26:37,100 --> 00:26:40,800
like, you know to give me the 
bicycle like side doing the 

574
00:26:40,900 --> 00:26:43,100
subduing, the insights pain, 
right? 

575
00:26:43,100 --> 00:26:45,300
Funny man. 
That's not why I came here, 

576
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:47,500
right? 
So, I do think Twitter, like, 

577
00:26:47,500 --> 00:26:51,000
people add them flow with their,
like interests and do Ian and 

578
00:26:51,000 --> 00:26:53,600
Founders fund. 
He used to fight so much if you 

579
00:26:53,600 --> 00:26:55,500
like his Twitter is mellowed 
out. 

580
00:26:55,500 --> 00:26:57,800
I think people just get busy and
distracted with other stuff like

581
00:26:57,800 --> 00:26:59,400
delians running a company and 
you. 

582
00:26:59,500 --> 00:27:02,600
Whatever, but I mean CM lesson 
does his screenshot, sorry. 

583
00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,800
I'm still going through my list 
of who's the real a lot of men, 

584
00:27:06,800 --> 00:27:09,300
obviously, but on the article 
thing though, it's an 

585
00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:12,500
interesting confirmation bias 
of, I think, people just want to

586
00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:16,800
believe this to be true. 
And again, the story itself is 

587
00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:18,700
interesting enough. 
One of the quotes in, there was 

588
00:27:18,700 --> 00:27:21,500
most VCS, who are playing the 
content game, employ a bunch of 

589
00:27:21,500 --> 00:27:23,400
writers. 
I know people who make almost 

590
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:27,300
seven figures doing this. 
And again, I think I would know 

591
00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:29,900
if that were the case. 
Like I think if were people 

592
00:27:29,900 --> 00:27:33,000
making seven figures writing and
not to say it's not happening. 

593
00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:35,300
I don't want to again, this is 
an Insider saying. 

594
00:27:35,300 --> 00:27:38,300
This is whoever the person is 
that saying it, I just find it 

595
00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:39,900
really hard to believe but I 
don't know. 

596
00:27:39,900 --> 00:27:42,100
I mean there's a lot of capital 
in the ecosystem, right? 

597
00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:44,800
Well I love the idea of the 
Griff that a writer would have 

598
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,000
here in claim. 
You know, we got a whole writers

599
00:27:47,000 --> 00:27:49,200
room of people Keith. 
We're going to pump up some 

600
00:27:49,200 --> 00:27:51,400
treats for you and then they 
come back to them like a day 

601
00:27:51,400 --> 00:27:55,000
later with this a narrative 
violation, just throw that bomb 

602
00:27:55,000 --> 00:27:56,600
into the mix and see what 
happens. 

603
00:27:56,600 --> 00:27:58,800
But it's sad thing. 
Obviously is it's not even like 

604
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:02,400
the big It's probably like the 
more boring accounts that want 

605
00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:04,600
like that's the thing. 
If you're willing to pay someone

606
00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:08,000
because you think oh you pay 
people for the best information 

607
00:28:08,100 --> 00:28:10,500
than the type of person who has 
terrible taste. 

608
00:28:10,500 --> 00:28:13,700
And, you know, is going to like 
be happy with like, really Bland

609
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:15,200
tweets. 
Well, that's how it gets. 

610
00:28:15,200 --> 00:28:17,300
I think to the point we're 
saying about authenticity here 

611
00:28:17,300 --> 00:28:19,900
because I think the people that 
are pure posters that you know 

612
00:28:19,900 --> 00:28:23,000
the ones that you know, Logan 
was mentioning here are the ones

613
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:25,800
who it is their core being it is
the way they view the world that

614
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:28,800
their brain functions in, you 
know, tweets that get 

615
00:28:28,800 --> 00:28:29,800
engagement. 
Aunt. 

616
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:32,500
And it's why I'm assuming that 
this person that was interviewed

617
00:28:32,500 --> 00:28:34,800
here for the article is probably
doing second or third-tier 

618
00:28:35,000 --> 00:28:37,800
things which kind of defeats the
whole purpose of it. 

619
00:28:37,800 --> 00:28:39,900
Because if we can't you know, if
we're going to guess that it's 

620
00:28:39,900 --> 00:28:41,800
not famous people. 
Then what are they really 

621
00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,100
gaining from it right? 
Like what do they actually know 

622
00:28:44,100 --> 00:28:46,600
what deal flow all the stuff 
about being a public personas? 

623
00:28:46,600 --> 00:28:49,800
They can get more, you know, to 
benefit their Core Business. 

624
00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,500
It's not even really there which
is why it's kind of just like, 

625
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,200
you know, like the Overflow of 
money in the space and people 

626
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:58,200
just being absurdly wealthy, 
just trickles down to it, you 

627
00:28:58,208 --> 00:29:00,400
know, a writer here or there. 
About Sequoia. 

628
00:29:00,400 --> 00:29:04,600
I mean, rule of has 92 thousand 
Twitter followers, hard to 

629
00:29:04,600 --> 00:29:06,700
believe. 
It's Sequoia, retweeted me 

630
00:29:06,700 --> 00:29:08,100
there. 
Sequoia corporate account. 

631
00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:11,400
Retweeted me one time. 
They have 631 thousand 

632
00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:13,600
followers. 
Nothing happened. 

633
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,800
It was like a mini injury sanur 
by far. 

634
00:29:16,800 --> 00:29:18,900
I think corporate accounts are 
hard just in general. 

635
00:29:18,900 --> 00:29:22,300
Like, people follow those like 
passively right rather than but 

636
00:29:22,300 --> 00:29:26,600
them in Andresen had by far, the
biggest follower count and I 

637
00:29:26,600 --> 00:29:32,400
assume people are just following
it for General information about

638
00:29:32,400 --> 00:29:35,900
deals and stuff like that. 
Not for like actual engagement, 

639
00:29:35,900 --> 00:29:37,400
right? 
People don't engage with a 

640
00:29:37,408 --> 00:29:39,100
corporate. 
That's why you see like 

641
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:42,300
occasionally when Wendy's goes 
off the, you know, whatever and 

642
00:29:42,300 --> 00:29:44,700
like some of these Brands start 
flapping back it is super 

643
00:29:44,700 --> 00:29:47,000
entertaining but people don't 
follow corporate accounts for 

644
00:29:47,000 --> 00:29:49,200
the actual information. 
I think one of the things that's

645
00:29:49,200 --> 00:29:52,300
interesting though is that 
dichotomy that would exist from 

646
00:29:52,300 --> 00:29:56,700
like building this Persona 
online in such a way that is 

647
00:29:56,700 --> 00:30:00,900
incongruous with your own. 
Personality or style, right? 

648
00:30:00,900 --> 00:30:04,400
And I felt that a little bit 
where I was playing this cold 

649
00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:10,700
bearish VC voice, and then 
people would beat me and they 

650
00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:14,800
would be like, I think some 
people would expect me to be in 

651
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:15,800
character. 
Right. 

652
00:30:15,800 --> 00:30:19,700
You know, whatever or like, be 
funnier than I was in person or 

653
00:30:19,700 --> 00:30:21,000
something, right? 
I don't know if you guys have 

654
00:30:21,000 --> 00:30:23,500
ever been around comedians but 
like some of the funniest people

655
00:30:23,500 --> 00:30:26,100
I've ever met in my life, like 
you meet them and they're not 

656
00:30:26,100 --> 00:30:27,900
actually like funny on a 
day-to-day. 

657
00:30:27,900 --> 00:30:30,700
Like some are good, some are 
Insufferable where they're 

658
00:30:30,700 --> 00:30:32,000
always like trying to make 
jokes. 

659
00:30:32,000 --> 00:30:33,200
It can go either way. 
I know. 

660
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,700
But I even have like some of the
people I interact with that are 

661
00:30:35,700 --> 00:30:38,300
like the funniest people. 
I know are like, have a very 

662
00:30:38,300 --> 00:30:41,300
dark, they're like, very quiet. 
And they have like, very like 

663
00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:44,500
dark witty, quips that are going
on in their head and then they 

664
00:30:44,500 --> 00:30:47,500
like, say it very subtly, but it
doesn't come across right like 

665
00:30:47,500 --> 00:30:49,400
in the same way. 
And I think that's interesting 

666
00:30:49,400 --> 00:30:51,700
of if you're building this 
public Persona around something,

667
00:30:51,700 --> 00:30:55,600
that is an authentic to who you 
are, and then people meet you, 

668
00:30:55,600 --> 00:30:57,700
right? 
And it's like, wait, hang on, 

669
00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:01,900
that's not what I thought. 
I was getting right and so 

670
00:31:01,900 --> 00:31:03,200
that's an interesting thing as 
well. 

671
00:31:03,200 --> 00:31:05,700
It's like to what end eventually
you have to meet these people in

672
00:31:05,700 --> 00:31:08,600
person are diamonds just like, 
hey, I took your money. 

673
00:31:08,600 --> 00:31:11,200
You need to get your jokes per 
minute up when we're hanging 

674
00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:12,700
out. 
Yeah, exactly. 

675
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:15,100
He's, like, this isn't, you 
know, this isn't what I signed 

676
00:31:15,100 --> 00:31:17,000
up for Matt. 
You're like, over here, trying 

677
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:20,600
to talk to me about, like, hack 
payback and efficiency metrics 

678
00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:22,900
is like, but I need some memes 
out of you. 

679
00:31:22,900 --> 00:31:25,000
Yeah, I thought that board 
meeting was to be way more 

680
00:31:25,000 --> 00:31:28,000
fucking like pithy than just 
asking me about. 

681
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:30,300
Let's write your own goals. 
Can we get to the part of the 

682
00:31:30,308 --> 00:31:32,800
story that I found interesting? 
Because you know it no. 

683
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:34,800
Okay, yeah, no go. 
Yeah yeah I know. 

684
00:31:34,800 --> 00:31:36,900
I'm just kidding. 
Okay, here's this part. 

685
00:31:36,900 --> 00:31:39,400
Everyone involved in Tech at a 
global scale has a political 

686
00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:41,600
project. 
Most of them are open border 

687
00:31:41,600 --> 00:31:45,900
guys, they want to be the 
immigration reform drum because 

688
00:31:45,900 --> 00:31:48,600
they need to hire Engineers. 
A lot of my clients are 

689
00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:50,900
interested in Tech policy and 
National Security. 

690
00:31:51,200 --> 00:31:53,200
China, deterrence missile 
defense, the government 

691
00:31:53,200 --> 00:31:55,600
procurement process. 
I can help them sound like their

692
00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,500
knowledgeable and In The Weeds 
on this stuff, man, I hope he's 

693
00:31:58,500 --> 00:32:01,600
not charging a ton for. 
Sometimes tweets about policy 

694
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:04,400
arguments can get pretty close 
to what you'd call an op-ed. 

695
00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:08,600
So this is weird to me this part
of it because it's trying to 

696
00:32:08,600 --> 00:32:13,200
graft a political low like a 
business rationale on to 

697
00:32:13,200 --> 00:32:16,600
political tweets and I just 
don't agree that that's the 

698
00:32:16,600 --> 00:32:18,400
case. 
I honestly think all these guys,

699
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,300
you know, the all in people any 
of the other people, have you 

700
00:32:20,300 --> 00:32:22,900
mentioned so far that are 
tweeting about politics and, you

701
00:32:22,900 --> 00:32:25,000
know, all the fucking day long, 
think they do it? 

702
00:32:25,000 --> 00:32:27,000
Because they really think their 
political opinions are 

703
00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:29,100
interesting and they want to get
it out there. 

704
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:31,800
Right, it's not even good for 
business or they just can't help

705
00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,100
themselves. 
Like yeah, honestly, what 

706
00:32:34,100 --> 00:32:38,600
prolific interesting person. 
This figure whoever this is must

707
00:32:38,600 --> 00:32:42,000
be that they're like five hours 
a week, right? 

708
00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,600
Five hours a week for 200 Grand 
a year. 

709
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:49,300
They're waiting in 25 to 50 VC's
in boxes that come up with 

710
00:32:49,300 --> 00:32:51,400
tweets. 
They have their own burner phone

711
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:52,800
to do this, which is just 
hilarious. 

712
00:32:52,800 --> 00:32:54,000
That like that was a part of the
article. 

713
00:32:54,000 --> 00:32:57,700
It's like I have my own CRM. 
My own burner phone a thick what

714
00:32:57,700 --> 00:32:59,200
in the world, why do you need 
your own? 

715
00:32:59,300 --> 00:33:01,900
Like the chat apps work pretty 
well across different platforms 

716
00:33:01,900 --> 00:33:04,900
like an Excel sheet where I 
don't think you need a personal 

717
00:33:04,900 --> 00:33:08,400
CRM for this, but it feels like 
they just this person must be 

718
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:12,700
amazingly intelligent to be able
to just talk in someone else's 

719
00:33:12,700 --> 00:33:15,400
voice. 
Let alone, one person, but 25 to

720
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,000
50 people and then come up with 
funny jokes, as well as, like 

721
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:23,000
immigration policy threads, and 
be able to craft all that back 

722
00:33:23,000 --> 00:33:26,400
to like the voice that this 
individual wants to have all 

723
00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:30,400
while being a founder of another
company that Are spending, you 

724
00:33:30,400 --> 00:33:32,300
know the vast majority of their 
time doing. 

725
00:33:32,300 --> 00:33:34,400
I don't know. 
It felt like to me there was 

726
00:33:34,400 --> 00:33:38,600
like cobbled together a bunch of
interesting truths here 

727
00:33:38,600 --> 00:33:43,000
probably, and they decided to 
just like, you know, maybe this 

728
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:45,400
is five different people that 
they turned it into the 

729
00:33:45,400 --> 00:33:47,300
amalgamation of one or 
something. 

730
00:33:47,400 --> 00:33:51,000
It just feels like they try to 
jam too many things into one. 

731
00:33:51,100 --> 00:33:53,000
Like, here's what I'm doing, 
right? 

732
00:33:53,000 --> 00:33:54,800
And make too many different 
points. 

733
00:33:54,800 --> 00:33:56,600
When any of these points could 
have been interesting on their 

734
00:33:56,600 --> 00:33:58,400
own. 
It does feel like this needed to

735
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:02,200
be a real person. 
Like a named person, I don't 

736
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:04,700
know. 
I find it a little hard to 

737
00:34:04,700 --> 00:34:06,400
believe. 
They have a process here at 

738
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:09,100
Insider where they do try to 
verify these things and I'm sure

739
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:11,300
went through that process. 
I think what they're trying to 

740
00:34:11,300 --> 00:34:13,800
get at why the story was 
popular, is that it does seem to

741
00:34:13,800 --> 00:34:16,500
be that there are like, we 
talked about, ulterior motives 

742
00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:18,800
to being a Twitter personality 
to presence. 

743
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:20,699
And whether you can do it 
yourself, ready to hire someone 

744
00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:23,000
to do it. 
I do think there's a sense, the 

745
00:34:23,000 --> 00:34:26,199
Twitter's, like, dying or like, 
I don't know, do you feel like 

746
00:34:26,199 --> 00:34:28,900
Twitter is like decaying? 
I think that keeps coming up in 

747
00:34:28,900 --> 00:34:30,699
the Our station right heel on 
buying it. 

748
00:34:30,699 --> 00:34:33,300
The like it's not just the 
markets gotten worse, but it 

749
00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:37,400
feels like Twitter, the 
experience or is that too? 

750
00:34:37,600 --> 00:34:39,400
Or just always heard of Bleak on
there. 

751
00:34:39,800 --> 00:34:43,400
I don't know. 
I mean honestly it feels like it

752
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:47,900
feels like people that have 
increased new levels of fame or 

753
00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:51,900
new levels of notoriety or 
celebrity then look around at 

754
00:34:51,900 --> 00:34:55,500
their like Twitter presence and 
they're like, what is good? 

755
00:34:55,500 --> 00:34:57,900
Like all these people are 
attacking me and it's like, 

756
00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:01,600
well, you are Weighing in on 
global events across the world 

757
00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:04,500
and you do have millions of 
followers and so like your 

758
00:35:04,500 --> 00:35:08,700
experience may be has changed 
because of how your profile has 

759
00:35:08,700 --> 00:35:10,700
been raised and how your profile
has gone up. 

760
00:35:10,700 --> 00:35:14,500
Not anything inherent de like 
Twitter, the app and so to some 

761
00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:18,300
extent Twitter gets all this 
criticism of the experience. 

762
00:35:18,300 --> 00:35:20,800
Right? 
From people, whose experience 

763
00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:24,700
has noticeably changed because 
they're far richer and far more 

764
00:35:24,700 --> 00:35:28,600
famous and weighing in on issues
that they didn't in the past. 

765
00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:30,400
And so, If that's what's always 
funny to me. 

766
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:34,100
When he lands like, oh, how many
people their replies are all 

767
00:35:34,100 --> 00:35:36,100
Bots when they post something, 
right? 

768
00:35:36,100 --> 00:35:39,700
And he's like, everyone only 
gets bot replies in crypto spam.

769
00:35:39,700 --> 00:35:42,700
And I'm like, dude, like you're 
the most followed person on a 

770
00:35:42,700 --> 00:35:44,300
platform, right? 
Yeah. 

771
00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:47,600
It's not represent experience is
different than my experience on 

772
00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:51,300
the platform and so I don't know
if Twitter is actually dying. 

773
00:35:51,300 --> 00:35:53,500
I mean I do think that all these
new form factors that are coming

774
00:35:53,500 --> 00:35:56,000
out are interesting and like 
should be explored and be that 

775
00:35:56,000 --> 00:35:58,400
you know whatever Tick-Tock or 
reels or YouTube I mean you're 

776
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:01,500
paying someone and Been wanting 
to say this and you're paying 

777
00:36:01,500 --> 00:36:04,300
red point. 
Is someone to create tick-tocks,

778
00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:05,400
right? 
I mean, can you talk about that?

779
00:36:05,400 --> 00:36:08,800
Yeah, well, that's, you know, 
whatever that's not his entirety

780
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,500
of his job. 
But yeah, we shot a Seer, we 

781
00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,900
hired from he was at looker. 
That's all I see, you know? 

782
00:36:13,900 --> 00:36:14,300
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

783
00:36:14,300 --> 00:36:17,400
He comes on him. 
He's a producer, I see him on my

784
00:36:17,400 --> 00:36:20,500
tic tocs, you know, he's a 
producer for my podcast as well.

785
00:36:20,500 --> 00:36:22,600
And then he does a bunch of 
internal stuff with other than 

786
00:36:22,607 --> 00:36:25,400
sand in content with our 
portfolio companies at a bunch 

787
00:36:25,400 --> 00:36:28,100
of different things. 
But yes, that is some one I 

788
00:36:28,100 --> 00:36:31,400
guess to be very clear that we 
Was what Drew us to hiring him? 

789
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,000
Was that he was creative and 
good at content. 

790
00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:35,900
And I guess this is an 
interesting thing that kind of 

791
00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:37,400
dovetails back to the overall 
thing. 

792
00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,500
We're talking about is I found 
when we were trying to produce 

793
00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:44,000
content or get our name out 
there more and more inevitably, 

794
00:36:44,000 --> 00:36:48,600
it always falls to the bottom of
investors priorities to do this 

795
00:36:48,600 --> 00:36:50,400
stuff. 
Like, it's always, hey, you have

796
00:36:50,400 --> 00:36:54,400
a list of 15 things and this is 
the 16th and you never get to 

797
00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,300
it, right? 
It's like unless you're willing 

798
00:36:56,300 --> 00:36:59,100
to bump it up to the 4th or 3rd 
or whatever thing. 

799
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:02,300
Never going to get to it versus 
talking to the next founder, 

800
00:37:02,300 --> 00:37:05,200
whatever. 
And so in talking to one of the 

801
00:37:05,200 --> 00:37:07,800
thought process and bringing 
over shy because hey, he's 

802
00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:10,800
funny, interesting creative and 
he's going to be a kind of a 

803
00:37:10,808 --> 00:37:13,100
Swiss Army knives that can do a 
bunch of different stuff for us.

804
00:37:13,200 --> 00:37:15,500
But then to having someone that 
wakes up everyday kind of 

805
00:37:15,500 --> 00:37:18,000
thinking about content in some 
way shape or form, he's 

806
00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,300
launching a podcast here in the 
next couple weeks or like a 

807
00:37:20,300 --> 00:37:23,200
YouTube series thing. 
And just having someone that 

808
00:37:23,200 --> 00:37:26,300
like his thinking, about that 
every day, but all that's to 

809
00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:29,900
say, like, the more important 
thing was in trying to Get my 

810
00:37:29,900 --> 00:37:33,400
co-workers to produce content. 
It was never a priority. 

811
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:35,800
It's a priority at a strategic 
meeting and we're like, oh, this

812
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:37,700
should be a priority. 
And so, we talked about it, 

813
00:37:37,700 --> 00:37:39,400
right? 
And then like one person or two 

814
00:37:39,400 --> 00:37:42,700
people goes and executes on it 
when everyone else is like, oh I

815
00:37:42,700 --> 00:37:44,400
forgot about that priority, 
right? 

816
00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:46,200
And so that was one of the 
things for it, which I think 

817
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:49,600
ties back to why you would pay 
someone else that would make it 

818
00:37:49,600 --> 00:37:51,200
a priority for them, right? 
Yeah. 

819
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:52,900
Has there ever been significant 
blowback? 

820
00:37:52,900 --> 00:37:55,500
Do you think they're VCS who 
have lost out on deals because 

821
00:37:55,500 --> 00:37:58,500
they were so committed to 
tweeting about their Fierce 

822
00:37:58,500 --> 00:38:01,500
commitment to Borders that you 
know, there was some like 

823
00:38:01,500 --> 00:38:03,900
potential startup Founders that 
were like a fucked. 

824
00:38:03,900 --> 00:38:05,000
This guy. 
I don't want this guy on my 

825
00:38:05,000 --> 00:38:07,000
board because he's going to you 
know, it's a funny story. 

826
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,700
I mean this is like related to 
your question less heft than 

827
00:38:10,700 --> 00:38:14,000
open borders, but we had a joke,
Rashad made this video about VC,

828
00:38:14,000 --> 00:38:18,300
six months ago versus VC's now. 
And the joke was how fickle VCS 

829
00:38:18,300 --> 00:38:21,000
are in their advice. 
That was the joke, but one of 

830
00:38:21,000 --> 00:38:24,500
the comments of six months ago 
were like, hey, you need to hire

831
00:38:24,500 --> 00:38:27,500
as many people as you can, and 
let's blitzscale our marketing 

832
00:38:27,500 --> 00:38:30,500
department and then it like cuts
To VCS now. 

833
00:38:30,500 --> 00:38:33,000
And it's like, do you really 
need a marketing department, 

834
00:38:33,000 --> 00:38:36,800
right? 
And the joke wasn't like, about 

835
00:38:36,800 --> 00:38:39,700
the role of marketing. 
The joke was like, how fickle 

836
00:38:39,700 --> 00:38:44,300
BCS were in their advice. 
But I'll tell you, there's a lot

837
00:38:44,300 --> 00:38:47,300
of humorless people on the 
internet and one CEO. 

838
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:51,200
In particular, got very fired up
about that and was like, I would

839
00:38:51,200 --> 00:38:56,800
never work with a DC that is so,
flippant about the roles of 

840
00:38:56,800 --> 00:39:00,300
layoffs and all that. 
And Then it got set around 

841
00:39:00,300 --> 00:39:04,100
internally and then you know 
whatever it got the original 

842
00:39:04,100 --> 00:39:07,300
your enemies within red Point. 
Used it to knife you like 

843
00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:10,100
however yeah exactly. 
So I this is my I announced my 

844
00:39:10,100 --> 00:39:12,900
departure from Red Boy you know.
But the original tweet got like 

845
00:39:12,900 --> 00:39:16,600
two thousand likes and then this
one person got 60 or whatever 

846
00:39:16,600 --> 00:39:20,500
trying to clap back at us. 
But you know what like 60 likes 

847
00:39:20,500 --> 00:39:23,200
and 15 replies saying. 
I'm never going to work with 

848
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,600
this firm again or I'll never 
have them on my list. 

849
00:39:26,700 --> 00:39:30,600
It does feel like a big Deal in 
the grand scheme of things. 

850
00:39:30,600 --> 00:39:32,800
And so to some extent, like, I 
actually respect Founders Fund 

851
00:39:32,800 --> 00:39:35,500
in a meaningful Way for their 
ability to say, hey, we're not 

852
00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:37,100
going to appeal to everyone, and
we're going to tell a lot of 

853
00:39:37,100 --> 00:39:40,200
people to fuck off, but we're 
going to try to feel deeply to 

854
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,600
some subset of this. 
And so we've had that experience

855
00:39:42,600 --> 00:39:44,600
here in the last couple months, 
and it had to be a conversation 

856
00:39:44,600 --> 00:39:49,300
internally about like, hey, our 
jokes worth people, disliking 

857
00:39:49,400 --> 00:39:51,300
us. 
Because that sort of, even if 

858
00:39:51,300 --> 00:39:55,000
you have a 90% approval rating 
and you reach 100,000 people, 

859
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,300
that means 10,000. 
People are going to dislike you,

860
00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,700
right? 
And back him seem like, Lot when

861
00:39:59,700 --> 00:40:01,800
they're yelling at you online. 
Well, this is C. 

862
00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,200
This is where it gets to be 
Crossover with journalists again

863
00:40:04,200 --> 00:40:06,500
because I think it's the same 
calculation journalists have of 

864
00:40:06,500 --> 00:40:08,000
like. 
All right I can make this joke 

865
00:40:08,000 --> 00:40:11,500
or I can make fun of Facebook in
this particular way and it could

866
00:40:11,500 --> 00:40:15,000
piss off some number of people. 
I'm I willing to accept that in 

867
00:40:15,000 --> 00:40:17,600
order to get the other people 
that might be more inclined to 

868
00:40:17,800 --> 00:40:20,700
follow me or like me relief 
things to me like let me see 

869
00:40:20,700 --> 00:40:22,800
what that trade-off is. 
So it's all flattened through. 

870
00:40:22,800 --> 00:40:26,000
The same medium people are so 
much meaner journalists have 

871
00:40:26,000 --> 00:40:30,100
such thicker skin than BCS do 
like you guys get roasted like 

872
00:40:30,100 --> 00:40:33,700
all the time with people angry 
at you for doing your job, 

873
00:40:33,700 --> 00:40:35,100
right? 
Like you doing your job, 

874
00:40:35,100 --> 00:40:38,000
involves people getting mad at 
you more often than not like 

875
00:40:38,000 --> 00:40:41,800
breaking a scoop you know, Eric 
broke some Scoops today and I 

876
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:45,200
was like fuck man. 
Come like come on, really like 

877
00:40:45,200 --> 00:40:46,800
did you really have to do that, 
right? 

878
00:40:46,800 --> 00:40:49,700
About one of our portfolio 
companies and so you're doing 

879
00:40:49,700 --> 00:40:52,800
your job is like, actually 
annoying people at times. 

880
00:40:52,800 --> 00:40:56,400
And people can be very vitriolic
to reporters about stuff, right?

881
00:40:56,400 --> 00:40:58,400
And all the fake news and, you 
know, whatever all the 

882
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:00,800
animosity. 
I don't feel too bad for 

883
00:41:00,800 --> 00:41:02,600
reporters. 
First of all, we're out there. 

884
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:04,400
Like I was going to say. 
Also, you have to keep in mind 

885
00:41:04,400 --> 00:41:07,900
that we make a lot of money, you
know, that's the thing that's so

886
00:41:07,900 --> 00:41:09,500
wealthy. 
And so it's like you're willing 

887
00:41:09,500 --> 00:41:12,400
to accept some of the slings and
arrows in order to get that 78 

888
00:41:12,400 --> 00:41:14,500
figure. 
Well, yeah, and you all have 

889
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:18,200
verified check marks on Twitter 
and you get to, you know, 

890
00:41:18,200 --> 00:41:20,800
whatever, all those like Met 
Ball Galas and stuff. 

891
00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:24,200
I do the most invigorating is 
definitely for all the VCS to be

892
00:41:24,200 --> 00:41:27,100
like the real Elites are the 
reporters, you know? 

893
00:41:27,100 --> 00:41:29,800
It's like not the people who 
make a bazillion In dollars. 

894
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,900
It's the fucking reporters. 
Who are the real Elites? 

895
00:41:33,000 --> 00:41:35,800
It is a funny though. 
I mean baked not to say I feel 

896
00:41:35,800 --> 00:41:39,200
badly for reporters. 
It's more of contrast of like 

897
00:41:39,200 --> 00:41:42,700
how sensitive VCS can be about 
stuff isn't right. 

898
00:41:42,700 --> 00:41:47,200
And at the end of the day we get
paid very well to do a pretty 

899
00:41:47,200 --> 00:41:49,600
fun job. 
I do think it's a very San 

900
00:41:49,600 --> 00:41:53,200
Francisco thing or I mean like 
Wall Street Finance. 

901
00:41:53,200 --> 00:41:56,900
I mean, I feel like people while
do complain about getting 

902
00:41:56,900 --> 00:41:58,600
attacked. 
I don't think there is like 

903
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:01,700
surprise. 
I do think part of it is that VC

904
00:42:01,700 --> 00:42:05,500
works so well in that you can 
always add somebody else to 

905
00:42:05,500 --> 00:42:07,200
around. 
So there's just such an 

906
00:42:07,200 --> 00:42:11,800
incentive in that business to be
nice to everybody in a way that 

907
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:13,600
feels great. 
Like I, yeah, it's nice to be in

908
00:42:13,600 --> 00:42:17,200
a business where people can be 
nice and then it makes people 

909
00:42:17,200 --> 00:42:19,600
shocked when people aren't and 
they're like why it works? 

910
00:42:19,600 --> 00:42:22,900
So well when you're I wonder how
much I mean 21 like a lot of 

911
00:42:22,900 --> 00:42:27,200
people in Tech at large, right? 
We're probably more introverted 

912
00:42:27,200 --> 00:42:32,800
and not like, you know, Didn't 
have the popularity, Sports 

913
00:42:32,800 --> 00:42:36,300
thing through high school and 
college and all of that stuff, 

914
00:42:36,300 --> 00:42:38,000
right? 
And so there's some like, hey 

915
00:42:38,000 --> 00:42:41,400
now I've made it. 
And so when people now I'm cool,

916
00:42:41,500 --> 00:42:44,400
right? 
And by my childhood, people were

917
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:47,800
mean, and there were these 
Meathead bullies, but now I'm 

918
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:51,400
not that, and so when there's 
criticism coming it's like wait,

919
00:42:51,400 --> 00:42:53,600
hang on, I'm past that point, 
right? 

920
00:42:53,600 --> 00:42:56,900
Like this is bringing back 
memories of my middle school and

921
00:42:56,900 --> 00:42:59,400
I don't like that, right? 
And so I think part of it is Is 

922
00:42:59,400 --> 00:43:01,400
made, but it's a trauma to this 
box. 

923
00:43:01,700 --> 00:43:02,400
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

924
00:43:02,400 --> 00:43:05,500
It's like hang on, hang on. 
Like and you do not put me in 

925
00:43:05,500 --> 00:43:09,500
that Locker again, I told Tommy 
Greene if he ever did that and 

926
00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:12,000
then the other one I think 
that's interesting is like there

927
00:43:12,000 --> 00:43:15,200
is this inherent optimism and 
now I mean it's kind of 

928
00:43:15,200 --> 00:43:18,500
counterbalance with some level 
of like broad-based mule ISM 

929
00:43:18,500 --> 00:43:22,800
that I think also exist. 
But the like the tenant of BC 

930
00:43:22,800 --> 00:43:27,900
and technology is like optimism 
ever believing in the future and

931
00:43:27,900 --> 00:43:30,300
all that. 
And so when people start poking 

932
00:43:30,300 --> 00:43:32,700
and prodding that, I think 
there's an inherent 

933
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:37,500
defensiveness that comes out and
also it's a lot easier to sound 

934
00:43:37,500 --> 00:43:39,500
a cynic than it is to sound an 
octopus. 

935
00:43:39,500 --> 00:43:41,500
Right? 
And so I think people just over 

936
00:43:41,500 --> 00:43:45,900
correct on those things and it 
comes off in a vitriolic, kind 

937
00:43:45,900 --> 00:43:47,700
of way. 
Did you ever concluding thought 

938
00:43:47,700 --> 00:43:49,600
on this Tom? 
And then I did want to talk 

939
00:43:49,600 --> 00:43:53,400
about the market for 10 minutes?
No, I think we should all, you 

940
00:43:53,408 --> 00:43:56,900
know, keep fighting on Twitter. 
I think it's clearly doing good 

941
00:43:56,900 --> 00:44:00,100
for all of our personal Brands I
want to Rate my offer to 

942
00:44:00,100 --> 00:44:03,500
journalists, I don't have a lot 
of followers but that's because,

943
00:44:03,600 --> 00:44:06,200
you know, I'm very concerned 
about my personal brand, but I 

944
00:44:06,200 --> 00:44:09,300
can build up other people's and 
I would like to just put my 

945
00:44:09,300 --> 00:44:11,600
skills out there to someone. 
If you are a journalist, you 

946
00:44:11,600 --> 00:44:12,600
don't think you're getting the 
gauge me. 

947
00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:15,200
Think you should get, you want 
to get into fights with people. 

948
00:44:15,200 --> 00:44:17,000
I can offer those tweets reach 
out to me. 

949
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:19,100
My dams are open, Tom has the 
weirdest. 

950
00:44:19,100 --> 00:44:22,500
I'm gonna link to some of the 
Tom tweets that are like jokes 

951
00:44:22,500 --> 00:44:25,900
on, like streaming platform, 
wants to be the New Yorker, you 

952
00:44:25,900 --> 00:44:29,000
know, you don't need to appeal, 
broadly to everyone, Tom. 

953
00:44:29,300 --> 00:44:31,900
You have a very sophisticated 
palate that, like, keep us what 

954
00:44:31,900 --> 00:44:36,800
I like, you know, it's a small 
but extremely high influence 

955
00:44:36,800 --> 00:44:38,400
audience of people? 
I think that's right. 

956
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:41,700
Either I think make the time not
to psychoanalyze you but to do 

957
00:44:41,700 --> 00:44:44,200
it but I really do. 
You make you make joke that 

958
00:44:44,900 --> 00:44:47,700
there were a lot like I like 
them because they rely on 

959
00:44:47,700 --> 00:44:51,200
knowing like your voice and so 
if you know your voice and your 

960
00:44:51,200 --> 00:44:54,400
sensibility, it's like rorty, 
like no lever. 

961
00:44:54,700 --> 00:44:58,500
But like nobody your buddy, 
laughs. 

962
00:44:58,600 --> 00:45:01,500
Maybe less It's like, do you 
know what my hope is that it 

963
00:45:01,500 --> 00:45:04,400
Burrows into your brain and then
like a couple of hours later 

964
00:45:04,400 --> 00:45:07,100
you're like oh yeah, I guess 
that was kind of funny and then 

965
00:45:07,100 --> 00:45:08,200
and then you move on with your 
day. 

966
00:45:08,200 --> 00:45:13,000
I keep making content for the 
unwashed masses but Tom that the

967
00:45:13,000 --> 00:45:15,000
real caviar Taste of humor, 
right? 

968
00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:18,100
He's not only sell out like you 
back to the broadcast Cable 

969
00:45:18,100 --> 00:45:19,400
model. 
I mean, you're kind of you're 

970
00:45:19,400 --> 00:45:21,500
out there doing CBS sitcoms, you
know? 

971
00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:22,600
That's right. 
That's right. 

972
00:45:23,100 --> 00:45:25,800
Popularity. 
Our podcast has a dead cat. 

973
00:45:25,800 --> 00:45:27,500
Like, definitely. 
There we got a couple people 

974
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:31,100
were like a dead cat like Like, 
how dare you invoke that image? 

975
00:45:31,100 --> 00:45:35,000
Like, it's terrible for SEO. 
But yeah, yeah. 

976
00:45:35,200 --> 00:45:37,000
But it weeds out the people who 
are concerned about that. 

977
00:45:37,100 --> 00:45:38,800
All right, let's go through our 
serious PC. 

978
00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:42,600
So naturally we're going to 
spend 90% of time talking about 

979
00:45:42,600 --> 00:45:46,000
Twitter and 10%. 
But like, I mean I have course I

980
00:45:46,000 --> 00:45:48,000
actually don't remember which of
these companies you'd invested 

981
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,800
in earlier but you know I just 
wrote about like a hundred 

982
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:56,100
million dollar series 175 
million series a of 500 million 

983
00:45:56,100 --> 00:45:57,800
series C, all happening 
recently. 

984
00:45:57,800 --> 00:46:01,300
And just as Idea that like yep I
don't know. 

985
00:46:01,300 --> 00:46:04,800
Series a bcc'd. 
People are willing to go 

986
00:46:04,800 --> 00:46:06,700
aggressive. 
The growth stage funds are like 

987
00:46:06,700 --> 00:46:10,800
diving in whereas growth is 
still super hard. 

988
00:46:10,800 --> 00:46:14,300
You're more of a growth investor
I mean yeah I don't know where 

989
00:46:14,300 --> 00:46:18,900
we grow that desus or like yeah,
you've been tempted to go early.

990
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:22,200
Oh yeah, funny enough, I guess. 
Timing-wise were reporting this 

991
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:25,000
on what a Friday. 
And last night I got together 

992
00:46:25,000 --> 00:46:27,700
with a bunch of our limited 
partners and so I had to pull 

993
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:32,300
together a bunch of Data and, 
you know, kind of collect my 

994
00:46:32,300 --> 00:46:34,500
thoughts. 
Unstuff, right. 

995
00:46:34,500 --> 00:46:38,000
Just sound intelligent and I 
don't know if that worked but I 

996
00:46:38,000 --> 00:46:41,200
did collect thoughts and it's 
interesting, right? 

997
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:48,500
I will say that what we've seen 
at the series B series C, stage 

998
00:46:48,600 --> 00:46:51,700
is like, definitely a pullback 
in terms of valuations. 

999
00:46:51,700 --> 00:46:54,200
So this was kind of a 
proprietary analysis that we had

1000
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:56,400
internally, and I'm going to 
give you the broad Strokes of 

1001
00:46:56,400 --> 00:47:00,600
it, but the deals that we care 
about Eight, which is a very at 

1002
00:47:00,600 --> 00:47:03,300
the moment in time and a very 
qualitative assessment, but 

1003
00:47:03,300 --> 00:47:06,000
we've been doing it for six 
years or whatever, right. 

1004
00:47:06,100 --> 00:47:12,900
And we saw a step up between 
2020 and 2021 of it went from 

1005
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:16,300
like do the math on it. 
I guess it went from 255 million

1006
00:47:16,300 --> 00:47:20,000
to just under 600 million for 
series bees for the average 

1007
00:47:20,000 --> 00:47:23,100
price of deals, you care about 
correct the median. 

1008
00:47:23,100 --> 00:47:26,500
But yeah and so it was like a 2X
step up in the revenue. 

1009
00:47:26,500 --> 00:47:30,500
Multiple of that went from 32. 
Times to a hundred and fifty 

1010
00:47:30,500 --> 00:47:31,800
three times. 
Right? 

1011
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:34,400
Right. 
And the room also increased by 

1012
00:47:34,400 --> 00:47:36,800
much more than the valuation. 
Correct. 

1013
00:47:36,800 --> 00:47:39,500
And so what was happening was at
the scale of these companies 

1014
00:47:39,500 --> 00:47:41,800
went from five million down to 
two million. 

1015
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:45,700
And so, people were both going 
earlier in these companies and 

1016
00:47:45,700 --> 00:47:48,700
paying more, right? 
And so obviously that's how the 

1017
00:47:48,800 --> 00:47:50,500
multiple of those up in such a 
meaningful way. 

1018
00:47:50,700 --> 00:47:56,300
Now, since in 2022, we've seen 
it falls at 595 is down to 39 T 

1019
00:47:56,500 --> 00:48:01,400
fish and the multiples. 
I'm from 153 to 110. 

1020
00:48:01,500 --> 00:48:05,100
So it's fallen off but not at 
the level before all this was 

1021
00:48:05,100 --> 00:48:08,200
going on, right? 
If you go back to 2019 or even 

1022
00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:11,700
2020, we're talking like 25 to 
35 times, right? 

1023
00:48:11,700 --> 00:48:14,300
These like sort of the and you 
can justify that because these 

1024
00:48:14,300 --> 00:48:18,400
companies are growing to 2/3 x. 
And so hey like when you compare

1025
00:48:18,400 --> 00:48:20,200
that to the public market how 
does that make sense? 

1026
00:48:20,200 --> 00:48:23,300
Well you know the public market 
companies are growing 60% right 

1027
00:48:23,300 --> 00:48:25,400
versus these companies are going
to hundred percent, right? 

1028
00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:28,900
So you could justify at reeling 
number being fire. 

1029
00:48:29,100 --> 00:48:31,700
As a multiple. 
So we've seen it correct. 

1030
00:48:31,700 --> 00:48:35,200
But there is this like 
stickiness in some of these 

1031
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,000
prices and then there's all this
dry powder sitting on the 

1032
00:48:38,000 --> 00:48:41,000
sidelines, right? 
And so I don't know how it's 

1033
00:48:41,000 --> 00:48:44,400
going to flow through and 
there's these two things that 

1034
00:48:44,400 --> 00:48:47,000
are kind of at odds or tension 
with one another right now, 

1035
00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:50,000
we're one is valuations have 
gotten hammered in the public 

1036
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:52,100
markets, right? 
To is, we're starting to see the

1037
00:48:52,100 --> 00:48:56,600
macro, flow-through of, you 
know, softening and sales cycles

1038
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:58,900
and Pipeline and all that in the
public markets. 

1039
00:48:59,200 --> 00:49:01,700
Where I have some data that I 
can talk to on that. 

1040
00:49:01,700 --> 00:49:03,700
So we're starting to see all 
that stuff happening, right? 

1041
00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:06,200
Then the tension on the other 
side, is all this fucking money,

1042
00:49:06,200 --> 00:49:08,500
right? 
And you have six, eight, ten 

1043
00:49:08,500 --> 00:49:10,300
billion dollar funds sitting 
there. 

1044
00:49:10,500 --> 00:49:13,300
And so I'm not really sure how 
those two things are going to 

1045
00:49:13,300 --> 00:49:16,400
play out and how long it's going
to take to play out. 

1046
00:49:16,400 --> 00:49:20,300
And so I think to the things 
that you reported on today Eric 

1047
00:49:20,300 --> 00:49:22,700
what I think is bright, I don't 
want to speak about any of the 

1048
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:25,600
portfolio companies that I wish 
you hadn't preempted funding 

1049
00:49:25,600 --> 00:49:27,900
news on. 
But in general, I think what 

1050
00:49:27,900 --> 00:49:32,400
we're seeing is Is some of these
groups that previously were 

1051
00:49:32,400 --> 00:49:35,600
willing to invest two hundred 
million dollars at a two billion

1052
00:49:35,600 --> 00:49:39,300
dollar valuation right now, 
they're saying, hey you know 

1053
00:49:39,300 --> 00:49:43,900
what, let's go put in 20 million
dollars at a 200 million dollar 

1054
00:49:43,900 --> 00:49:46,700
valuation and let's do it in 10 
companies, right? 

1055
00:49:46,700 --> 00:49:49,500
And so you're seeing all these 
people say, Hey, fuck it. 

1056
00:49:49,600 --> 00:49:53,600
We don't really care if it's 150
or 200 or 250, or 300, much 

1057
00:49:53,600 --> 00:49:56,600
better than that 2 billion. 
We were paying before and so, 

1058
00:49:56,600 --> 00:49:59,800
while it's crazy on a multiple 
basis, Right, because it might 

1059
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:03,300
be, you know, Infinity time, 
they might not have Revenue, at 

1060
00:50:03,300 --> 00:50:05,900
least the low absolute 
valuation. 

1061
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:09,200
Gives you upside that if this 
grows into a two billion dollar 

1062
00:50:09,200 --> 00:50:12,900
company, the big like, question 
that I've had that is hard to 

1063
00:50:12,900 --> 00:50:14,900
answer. 
But do you think series a rounds

1064
00:50:14,900 --> 00:50:18,500
were actually like were 
mispriced and the just the 

1065
00:50:18,500 --> 00:50:20,800
likelihood of getting from 
series data series? 

1066
00:50:20,800 --> 00:50:25,500
See was so high that people were
giving too much of a discount. 

1067
00:50:25,500 --> 00:50:28,900
Its series a, I mean, John 
courteous who's leaving tiger I 

1068
00:50:29,000 --> 00:50:32,100
You could almost argue his new 
fund is on that premise. 

1069
00:50:32,100 --> 00:50:36,100
It's like very like going to be 
series 8 is series beef, series,

1070
00:50:36,100 --> 00:50:39,200
C focused. 
I think like the idea that like 

1071
00:50:39,700 --> 00:50:42,500
preference is actually a really 
valuable thing and like you 

1072
00:50:42,508 --> 00:50:45,600
don't necessarily lose your 
money and like an early stage 

1073
00:50:45,600 --> 00:50:47,200
investment. 
So there's more downside 

1074
00:50:47,200 --> 00:50:49,400
protection than is, I don't 
know. 

1075
00:50:49,400 --> 00:50:53,100
Do you think there is a chance 
that series a prices were too 

1076
00:50:53,100 --> 00:50:56,900
low relative to series C and D? 
If you look at the run up that 

1077
00:50:56,900 --> 00:51:00,700
existed from like, let's go back
to 2012, Calls to today rate. 

1078
00:51:00,700 --> 00:51:03,200
Like I think I'm not gonna get 
this numbers exactly right. 

1079
00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:08,600
But like series bees went up by 
4X and series sees what up by 

1080
00:51:08,600 --> 00:51:11,600
six acts and series a is went up
by two x, right? 

1081
00:51:11,700 --> 00:51:14,800
And so, like the absolute, the 
valuation increase of these 

1082
00:51:14,800 --> 00:51:17,800
things were not linear between 
the two, right? 

1083
00:51:17,800 --> 00:51:19,500
They didn't expand at a 
comparable rate. 

1084
00:51:19,500 --> 00:51:22,600
Now, why was that the case? 
Well, series A's? 

1085
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:25,000
I think, Founders probably had a
little bit more price discipline

1086
00:51:25,000 --> 00:51:28,900
and desire to pick board members
and you know, not to price. 

1087
00:51:29,000 --> 00:51:34,000
Mais the myth of a benchmark. 
Insisting, you keep to price 

1088
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:36,900
discipline held harder than the 
late State. 

1089
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:38,600
Yeah. 
And I think there's more truth 

1090
00:51:38,600 --> 00:51:41,900
to it at the earlier stage then 
as you get to the later stages 

1091
00:51:41,900 --> 00:51:44,400
of these valuations. 
And so you've seen the 

1092
00:51:44,400 --> 00:51:46,900
correction, I think when we were
sort of pouring through our 

1093
00:51:46,900 --> 00:51:53,000
data, you know that B's and C's 
or down in some cases 50, 60, 70

1094
00:51:53,000 --> 00:51:55,500
percent, right in different 
situations. 

1095
00:51:55,500 --> 00:51:58,900
And I think it might take a 
while for all that back. 

1096
00:51:59,000 --> 00:52:01,900
Lee flow through and to see it 
in a broad-based way versus the 

1097
00:52:01,900 --> 00:52:05,200
series Azor down 20-30 percent, 
right? 

1098
00:52:05,200 --> 00:52:08,600
And they didn't go up the same 
way that the B's and C's did so 

1099
00:52:08,600 --> 00:52:10,700
they're not going down the same 
way. 

1100
00:52:10,900 --> 00:52:15,200
And so, I guess the question is 
like, was it mispriced may be 

1101
00:52:15,200 --> 00:52:17,400
right? 
I think it requires a lot more 

1102
00:52:17,400 --> 00:52:19,800
work to invest in a series, a 
company. 

1103
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,400
It's not nearly the dollars 
aren't as scalable because, hey,

1104
00:52:23,400 --> 00:52:27,000
you know, it takes about as much
time to do a 30 million dollar 

1105
00:52:27,000 --> 00:52:28,800
check as it does to do five 
million. 

1106
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,200
Check in a lot of cases and then
to you actually need to work 

1107
00:52:32,200 --> 00:52:34,800
with these companies in a way of
like, helping them hire, and 

1108
00:52:34,800 --> 00:52:36,700
recruit and all that. 
I know that well, that's been 

1109
00:52:36,700 --> 00:52:39,200
the real challenge that this 
series a investors have to keep 

1110
00:52:39,200 --> 00:52:41,400
working. 
And then tiger comes in and is 

1111
00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:42,900
like, here's a bunch of money, 
but we're not going to do 

1112
00:52:42,900 --> 00:52:43,800
anything. 
Good luck. 

1113
00:52:43,800 --> 00:52:46,200
And so it's then still the poor 
series. 

1114
00:52:46,200 --> 00:52:49,800
A investor that has, like, keep 
the company together, that's the

1115
00:52:49,800 --> 00:52:51,100
smartest thing. 
A lot of these hedge funds are 

1116
00:52:51,107 --> 00:52:53,700
doing now, is they're looking 
at, like, the companies and 

1117
00:52:53,700 --> 00:52:56,300
saying, not just the validation 
of, do they have a good 

1118
00:52:56,300 --> 00:52:57,700
investor? 
That's already there. 

1119
00:52:57,900 --> 00:53:00,600
But also do they have a good? 
Board member who's going to be a

1120
00:53:00,607 --> 00:53:03,100
steward for the capital and make
sure they don't drive it off the

1121
00:53:03,100 --> 00:53:05,100
cliff, right? 
And so, they're kind of looking 

1122
00:53:05,100 --> 00:53:08,000
at it being like, well, you 
know, that person's legit. 

1123
00:53:08,000 --> 00:53:12,200
And so I'll just trust them, 
like, they'll be my proxy for 

1124
00:53:12,200 --> 00:53:14,800
all decisions, right? 
And then they get to be a little

1125
00:53:14,800 --> 00:53:19,300
price insensitive about is it 
100 post or 200 posts, right? 

1126
00:53:19,300 --> 00:53:22,200
Which seems like a really 
meaningful amount, but if you're

1127
00:53:22,200 --> 00:53:25,600
a hedge fund, who's crossing 
over into privates and you're 

1128
00:53:25,600 --> 00:53:28,500
ultimately trying to move three,
four billion. 

1129
00:53:29,000 --> 00:53:31,700
There's five billion dollars in 
the next three or four years 

1130
00:53:31,800 --> 00:53:34,400
like you don't really care. 
It's either gonna work or it's 

1131
00:53:34,400 --> 00:53:38,000
not last question on this. 
I think there's one view that 

1132
00:53:38,000 --> 00:53:41,300
like everybody was slow in the 
first like, what eight months to

1133
00:53:41,300 --> 00:53:45,100
a year nine months to a year and
then they're like, finally 

1134
00:53:45,100 --> 00:53:47,700
really come back from vacation. 
And like you said there, I have 

1135
00:53:47,700 --> 00:53:49,200
all this dry powder and they're 
like, fuck it. 

1136
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:51,500
We need to do deals this. 
What people pay me for. 

1137
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:55,400
And so, they're doing them, but 
it's still sort of irrational 

1138
00:53:55,400 --> 00:54:00,800
because it's going to be more 
brutal ahead than Hind or this 

1139
00:54:00,800 --> 00:54:04,600
is sort of the beginning of a 
comeback story in startup 

1140
00:54:04,600 --> 00:54:07,000
investing. 
I mean, do you have a view 

1141
00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:10,600
either way of whether this is 
sort of like sort of weird 

1142
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,500
incentives based on people's 
jobs or if it's the actual 

1143
00:54:13,500 --> 00:54:17,400
reflection that the market is 
going to start to turn around? 

1144
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:20,100
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll take 
a cop out and say, hey, I think 

1145
00:54:20,100 --> 00:54:22,800
it's some of both. 
I will say, there are perverse 

1146
00:54:22,800 --> 00:54:26,600
incentives that and I had a high
level, I believe in the trends 

1147
00:54:26,600 --> 00:54:27,900
that are going on in blah, blah,
blah. 

1148
00:54:27,900 --> 00:54:31,200
Let me give you all my life. 
LP speak of what they tax. 

1149
00:54:31,200 --> 00:54:32,400
Good on it, right? 
Yeah. 

1150
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:35,500
These tectonic shifts that are 
happening or inevitable and it's

1151
00:54:35,500 --> 00:54:37,800
going to create lots of equity 
value and all that right Bubba. 

1152
00:54:37,900 --> 00:54:40,100
Yeah, I think one thing we're 
seeing is there's definitely 

1153
00:54:40,100 --> 00:54:41,900
Supply. 
I think it's not a demand 

1154
00:54:41,900 --> 00:54:45,000
problem that exists like I think
there's feces still willing to 

1155
00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,900
be very irrational in their 
investing and I think there's a 

1156
00:54:47,908 --> 00:54:50,000
lot of perverse incentives that 
exist there. 

1157
00:54:50,100 --> 00:54:53,000
Where people are like hey you 
know, my job's not the time, the

1158
00:54:53,008 --> 00:54:55,200
markets, right? 
I'm using air quotes, right? 

1159
00:54:55,200 --> 00:54:57,700
But I like my job is to give 
Adam Newman like three hundred 

1160
00:54:57,700 --> 00:55:01,600
million dollars. 
Yeah, my job is not to assess, 

1161
00:55:01,800 --> 00:55:04,400
you know, valuation. 
My job is to assess, you know, 

1162
00:55:04,400 --> 00:55:08,000
Trends and entrepreneurs, right?
And so I'm not going to get too 

1163
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:09,800
hung up on the price of all 
this. 

1164
00:55:09,800 --> 00:55:12,800
And so I think there's a lot of 
people that have that philosophy

1165
00:55:12,800 --> 00:55:14,400
right now. 
I think what you're seeing is, 

1166
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:17,800
there's a supply problem that so
many companies, raise so much 

1167
00:55:17,800 --> 00:55:20,200
money over the course of the 
last two years that the great 

1168
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:24,200
companies out there like hey, 
why would I go out there now and

1169
00:55:24,200 --> 00:55:26,800
get jerked around potentially on
valuation, or have to take it 

1170
00:55:26,808 --> 00:55:28,800
down round or whatever? 
Why would I go out and do that? 

1171
00:55:28,900 --> 00:55:31,900
That when I have capital for the
next six years sitting on my 

1172
00:55:31,900 --> 00:55:34,500
balance sheet. 
And so I think the reason we're 

1173
00:55:34,500 --> 00:55:38,200
seeing I don't know how much VCS
have actually found religion on 

1174
00:55:38,200 --> 00:55:41,800
like hey the public markets are 
impacting the multiples that we 

1175
00:55:41,800 --> 00:55:43,800
should be willing to pay and 
therefore what these outcomes 

1176
00:55:43,800 --> 00:55:47,400
can be versus they're just not 
getting in the swings at the 

1177
00:55:47,400 --> 00:55:49,000
plate that they got over the 
course a lot. 

1178
00:55:49,200 --> 00:55:52,100
And so I think it's going to 
take a bunch of the businesses 

1179
00:55:52,100 --> 00:55:56,500
that actually need Capital to go
back out and start fundraising 

1180
00:55:56,500 --> 00:55:59,300
and they can't just sit on the 
sidelines to really figure Which

1181
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:00,900
one of those two things is going
to play out. 

1182
00:56:00,900 --> 00:56:02,900
And to be honest, it's going to 
be both, right? 

1183
00:56:02,900 --> 00:56:06,000
There's going to be V sees that 
have found total religion and 

1184
00:56:06,000 --> 00:56:08,100
understand exactly where 
multiples are trading and going 

1185
00:56:08,100 --> 00:56:09,800
to be very disciplined about 
this stuff. 

1186
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:12,800
And there's going to be VC's 
that say, Hey, you know our jobs

1187
00:56:12,800 --> 00:56:16,600
to we raised by billion dollars 
and so we're invest five billion

1188
00:56:16,600 --> 00:56:18,300
dollars. 
How many deals have you done 

1189
00:56:18,300 --> 00:56:23,100
personally, this year as a fund,
we've done one this entire year.

1190
00:56:23,100 --> 00:56:25,000
What I've done? 
Oh my god. 

1191
00:56:25,000 --> 00:56:25,800
Wow. 
Alright boys. 

1192
00:56:25,800 --> 00:56:26,800
Early stage. 
Sorry. 

1193
00:56:26,800 --> 00:56:28,700
Sorry, that's the growth team. 
Red pointer. 

1194
00:56:28,900 --> 00:56:29,900
Least age. 
I don't know. 

1195
00:56:29,900 --> 00:56:32,300
They've done more. 
But we've done one this entire 

1196
00:56:32,300 --> 00:56:34,500
year. 
It was done in January and we've

1197
00:56:34,500 --> 00:56:35,700
done. 
That's the only one we've done. 

1198
00:56:35,700 --> 00:56:37,500
Is that an eyesore? 
Well, 12 months. 

1199
00:56:37,500 --> 00:56:39,400
Yeah. 
Acuity MD, it was technically a 

1200
00:56:39,400 --> 00:56:41,300
series. 
It was a big series as your life

1201
00:56:41,300 --> 00:56:42,800
is just tweeting. 
Going back to her room. 

1202
00:56:42,900 --> 00:56:44,500
No wonder. 
You're like Europe. 

1203
00:56:44,500 --> 00:56:47,100
I kind of resent. 
Well, hey, come on. 

1204
00:56:47,100 --> 00:56:49,700
That's not that's not fair. 
I podcast and tweet a so, right?

1205
00:56:49,700 --> 00:56:52,600
Yeah yeah. 
Do you help me send you Ilan 

1206
00:56:52,600 --> 00:56:54,400
like text like what have you 
done this week? 

1207
00:56:54,800 --> 00:56:56,600
Yeah, yeah I get that. 
I get that. 

1208
00:56:56,600 --> 00:57:00,200
Sometimes I know they wish I It 
more of their money, just 

1209
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,400
unscrew Pious lead to the 
Twitter round. 

1210
00:57:02,400 --> 00:57:03,700
Just sort of sent money over 
that. 

1211
00:57:03,700 --> 00:57:05,200
That's true. 
I got right? 

1212
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:07,100
Let me in on that baby. 
Yeah. 

1213
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:09,900
Only 4 billion or bust? 
Yeah, so no. 

1214
00:57:09,900 --> 00:57:12,400
But it's interesting, right? 
I mean it is the last 12 months 

1215
00:57:12,400 --> 00:57:15,000
I think as a fund we're probably
at the point that we've only 

1216
00:57:15,000 --> 00:57:16,200
done one. 
That's the only deal we've done 

1217
00:57:16,200 --> 00:57:19,300
even in the last 12 months, let 
alone this calendar year right 

1218
00:57:19,300 --> 00:57:20,600
now. 
We're still looking at a bunch 

1219
00:57:20,600 --> 00:57:23,000
of stuff and we're still chasing
things around but it's really 

1220
00:57:23,000 --> 00:57:25,000
that supply problem. 
And then a little bit of this 

1221
00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:28,700
Market disk location pricing 
thing that were I don't know, 

1222
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:31,400
We've been a little more attuned
to, or at least a little more 

1223
00:57:31,400 --> 00:57:33,300
focused on than others have. 
Hmm. 

1224
00:57:33,500 --> 00:57:35,400
Well, we ended and quite a 
height in place. 

1225
00:57:35,500 --> 00:57:37,300
I feel like in this conversation
after the beginning. 

1226
00:57:37,500 --> 00:57:39,500
Yeah, I do think a real, you 
shitpost. 

1227
00:57:39,600 --> 00:57:42,900
The real you is, is the the one 
with the financials. 

1228
00:57:42,900 --> 00:57:45,900
I'm sorry to say, well, I mean, 
and that's why it's so 

1229
00:57:45,900 --> 00:57:48,400
incongruous that I have all 
these writers writing, all this 

1230
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:51,100
stuff to me and then and then I 
like go down this Rabbit Hole of

1231
00:57:51,100 --> 00:57:53,600
like multiples and Sass and 
financials and all that. 

1232
00:57:53,600 --> 00:57:57,300
And they're like, what the fuck?
Like, can you make a joke, 

1233
00:57:57,900 --> 00:57:59,900
right? 
Well, but Ability to, you know, 

1234
00:57:59,900 --> 00:58:02,700
have facility with these 
financials makes the monies that

1235
00:58:02,700 --> 00:58:05,000
you can employ the writers that 
keep your Twitter account 

1236
00:58:05,000 --> 00:58:06,500
cracked. 
Yeah, I know it's a sort of 

1237
00:58:06,508 --> 00:58:09,900
circular flywheel. 
It's really capitalism and its 

1238
00:58:09,900 --> 00:58:12,000
purest form right there. 
So right. 

1239
00:58:12,000 --> 00:58:13,000
Yeah. 
Just trickle it down 

1240
00:58:13,000 --> 00:58:16,000
actualization. 
Yeah, yeah, it, but it all works

1241
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,400
together. 
Well, I'm glad we entered in 

1242
00:58:17,400 --> 00:58:20,500
this place Logan and we should 
plug your podcast. 

1243
00:58:20,700 --> 00:58:22,700
Yeah. 
So this is much more in depth 

1244
00:58:22,700 --> 00:58:24,800
into all this stuff. 
It's nice to be a guest rather 

1245
00:58:24,800 --> 00:58:26,900
than a host. 
So I appreciate you guys. 

1246
00:58:26,900 --> 00:58:28,700
Yeah, you guys driving this 
Italy? 

1247
00:58:28,800 --> 00:58:30,300
Is it? 
You're like I have thoughts to, 

1248
00:58:30,300 --> 00:58:31,900
you know, I have expert. 
Yeah. 

1249
00:58:32,500 --> 00:58:34,000
Ask other people what they 
think? 

1250
00:58:34,500 --> 00:58:35,400
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

1251
00:58:35,400 --> 00:58:38,800
I have two on my podcast. 
I ask that a non sequiturs that 

1252
00:58:38,800 --> 00:58:40,500
just like double back to my own 
opinion. 

1253
00:58:40,500 --> 00:58:42,800
It's like much more. 
You know, we're you guys ask, it

1254
00:58:42,800 --> 00:58:44,200
doesn't feel like you're 
projecting here. 

1255
00:58:44,200 --> 00:58:45,700
Logan. 
Is there something that you want

1256
00:58:45,700 --> 00:58:48,000
to be talking about? 
Yeah, a lot of that on the show.

1257
00:58:48,000 --> 00:58:49,900
Yeah, so I do I've cartoon 
avatars. 

1258
00:58:49,900 --> 00:58:53,400
You do it once a week and yeah, 
it the format changes. 

1259
00:58:53,400 --> 00:58:54,900
We have people on, it's not 
dissimilar. 

1260
00:58:54,900 --> 00:58:57,000
You guys in some ways. 
You guys brought down, web, 

1261
00:58:57,000 --> 00:58:59,300
three basically, right? 
I mean, you just Right. 

1262
00:58:59,300 --> 00:59:02,200
You said there was nothing there
and yeah correct. 

1263
00:59:02,200 --> 00:59:04,700
Yeah, which is another funny 
thing because we have people in 

1264
00:59:04,700 --> 00:59:07,800
our team at Red point that 
invest in weatherbury and people

1265
00:59:07,800 --> 00:59:10,700
are like, wait, isn't that guy 
like the - web three guy, 

1266
00:59:10,700 --> 00:59:12,800
doesn't? 
That doesn't mean work with you,

1267
00:59:12,800 --> 00:59:14,400
right? 
See, but this gets back to like 

1268
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,100
the idea between like contents 
and actual business. 

1269
00:59:17,100 --> 00:59:19,200
You're like, if to understand 
anti web, three stuff does 

1270
00:59:19,200 --> 00:59:21,800
really well right now. 
Exactly, exactly play that 

1271
00:59:21,800 --> 00:59:24,400
market gives. 
That's right. 

1272
00:59:24,400 --> 00:59:26,400
I actually just when people, 
whatever people say, aren't you.

1273
00:59:26,400 --> 00:59:28,700
The web three guy just show the 
spikes and listener. 

1274
00:59:28,800 --> 00:59:32,900
Bishop and ever and I'm like, 
yes, no, I'm the market guy. 

1275
00:59:32,900 --> 00:59:34,200
That's what I mean. 
Yeah. 

1276
00:59:34,300 --> 00:59:36,400
Are you guys going to have Sam 
lesson back on to redeem 

1277
00:59:36,400 --> 00:59:40,600
himself? 
Is that, you know, I like it, 

1278
00:59:40,600 --> 00:59:41,500
right? 
Like it was. 

1279
00:59:41,500 --> 00:59:43,000
Yeah. 
It was hard to listen to, I 

1280
00:59:43,008 --> 00:59:45,400
mean, yeah, I know, I know likes
him. 

1281
00:59:45,400 --> 00:59:48,700
I like his tweets but he came 
off terribly and he also can 

1282
00:59:48,700 --> 00:59:53,400
just be so petty, like, on some 
of the I listened, he wanted to 

1283
00:59:53,400 --> 00:59:54,800
do it. 
Exactly like, hey, this is 

1284
00:59:54,800 --> 00:59:57,100
terrible. 
You know, I really I was 

1285
00:59:57,100 --> 00:59:59,700
embarrassed because, like, I, 
you know, Sensibly, I'm supposed

1286
00:59:59,700 --> 01:00:02,800
to be the moderator of that and 
I I was just sort of sitting 

1287
01:00:02,800 --> 01:00:05,500
back like arms crossed laughing 
the whole time and I kind of 

1288
01:00:05,508 --> 01:00:08,100
forgot what my role in doing 
something like that. 

1289
01:00:08,100 --> 01:00:10,200
Was you see? 
I'm just kept interrupting like 

1290
01:00:10,200 --> 01:00:13,200
he, like I mean Zack is very 
good. 

1291
01:00:13,300 --> 01:00:15,600
Is he like a what's his status 
with the show? 

1292
01:00:15,600 --> 01:00:18,100
Is he a co-host? 
Or is he just sort of a he won't

1293
01:00:18,100 --> 01:00:21,000
be called a co-host. 
The guy does a million things. 

1294
01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:23,500
It's actually pretty impressive,
how busy he is and so trying to 

1295
01:00:23,500 --> 01:00:27,400
pin him down regularly as a pain
in the ass, but he know think he

1296
01:00:27,400 --> 01:00:30,800
comes on regularly, At this 
point and I can get them 

1297
01:00:30,900 --> 01:00:34,000
probably every other episode. 
So I get something quasi 

1298
01:00:34,000 --> 01:00:36,800
co-host. 
Yeah, we have a co-host who 

1299
01:00:36,800 --> 01:00:39,300
drops off in the middle of 
episodes to take calls about the

1300
01:00:39,300 --> 01:00:42,200
justice department. 
So we can empathize. 

1301
01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:44,700
Everyone can relate right here, 
we are. 

1302
01:00:44,700 --> 01:00:47,800
We're on that content grind, and
other people are like, trying to

1303
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:50,600
do their job. 
Everyone's like, now you hear 

1304
01:00:50,600 --> 01:00:52,000
why? 
I have the time to do this. 

1305
01:00:52,000 --> 01:00:54,200
It's a penguin. 
So it you dumb one deal in the 

1306
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:56,000
last year. 
I'm like, yeah, that's right. 

1307
01:00:56,000 --> 01:00:59,000
That's a yeah. 
Now, you know why I'm the And 

1308
01:00:59,000 --> 01:01:01,200
with the schedule available for 
Zach and not the other way 

1309
01:01:01,200 --> 01:01:02,700
around. 
All right. 

1310
01:01:02,700 --> 01:01:04,200
Well anyway we I look forward 
to. 

1311
01:01:04,200 --> 01:01:07,800
It's the same lesson Zak part 2.
It's like the Gore Vidal Norman 

1312
01:01:07,800 --> 01:01:11,400
mailer fight of our time. 
So no honestly I think the best 

1313
01:01:11,400 --> 01:01:15,700
analogy is the first Trump Biden
debate where I was I was the 

1314
01:01:15,700 --> 01:01:18,500
moderator to sort of who was 
that, was that Chris Wallace? 

1315
01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:19,800
Who was it? 
That got steamrolled. 

1316
01:01:19,800 --> 01:01:21,900
That wasn't very good. 
Yeah, I think so. 

1317
01:01:22,000 --> 01:01:24,900
I'm glad I remember more the 
Hillary, the more Hillary by 

1318
01:01:24,900 --> 01:01:26,300
debates. 
They like I'm not the puppet, 

1319
01:01:26,300 --> 01:01:27,800
you're the puppet. 
That's basically where that one 

1320
01:01:27,800 --> 01:01:30,400
ended up but I'll listen. 
And either way cool thanks guys 

1321
01:01:30,400 --> 01:01:32,100
this is fun alright thanks a 
bunch. 

1322
01:01:32,100 --> 01:01:46,700
Thanks Logan. 
Goodbye. 

1323
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:49,300
Goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 

1324
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:46,700
Goodbye. 
Goodbye. 

1325
01:01:46,700 --> 01:01:49,300
Goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 

1326
01:01:49,400 --> 01:01:49,700
Goodbye.