Welcome. So what kind of salad?
Hey, it's Eric newcomer, welcome to dead cat.
Tom do it on? Is here, we've got Logan,
Bartlett VC. But more importantly a rival.
Podcaster, what your Cartoon Avatar?
I also profiled him a while ago. Sting is it a zero-sum game?
It's a rising tide lifts All Ships here.
That's true. But I used to promotion, to t.j.
to have enemies than friends, right?
I mean, I feel like few, you know what cartoon avatars is
your enemy. It's very clear what our enemy
can be, you're going after the wrong and wrong to be see how
we're competitors in both the. We would like to be a foil to
all in know. Yeah, exactly the modestly
successful like, you know, up-and-coming, VC, trying to get
by versus the self-proclaimed billionaires that are all
navel-gazing, which one makes it better for Oh, I don't know.
We can say at this podcast currently there is zero people
that appeared in Elon Musk text messages so far as I can tell.
Yeah, yeah, exactly. How long have you been at
cartoon avatars, by the way, beginning of February.
So originally actually, I give those guys a lot of credit in
the impetus for doing it. And so it was last fall probably
a year ago that the market was super crazy and I was seeing the
success that they were having. And obviously they do a good job
with one type of content, right? And one I mean, they all had
different voices but so you're saying all in all in.
Yeah. And so I thought, originally
that I could be a foil to that in some ways and so it was
actually, like originally trying to recreate elements of what
they did, but maybe a little bit more relatable to the non
billionaire class, but the format has evolved.
Originally, I to other people doing it with me.
Well, you at Nikita, who now has like, viral apps success.
Right. What's it called?
It's crazy. Yes, what you have gas?
Is it doing well? That was number one on the app.
Yeah, it's like a dating type thing or to be honest, I do not
know there's bad blood x. No, no, guys, host you're done.
No, I'm trying to get him to come back on.
We're still buddies. But what actually happened was,
he was starting this company and he got distracted with, you
know, actually doing his day job.
So it kind of evolved to just me and then just me plus sack
Weinberg. And so we've been in our current
iteration ish, probably since April, I would say.
So I don't know how you score it.
Yeah. All right.
Well, we're here today. This is a fun episode, so I want
to just sort of shoot the shit but Insider wrote, what would
you call it? Like an explosive story
headline. I made two hundred thousand
dollars last year. Ghost.
Writing tweets for Superstar VCS, it takes me 5 hours a week.
Here's how I found my clients and built a booming side, hustle
from scratch and it's basically sort of adds told to story of
someone they claim they got like a hundred thousand dollars.
River Tweed storming like a big funding round.
I mean, just a ton of money and it's definitely traveling the VC
world because, you know, it fits into this whole sort of, I don't
know, VC's as content, marketers as sort of celebrities thing VC
says influencers. Right?
Right. I mean, it was like a big story
three or four years ago in your an influencer, right?
That's right. Yeah.
Logan understands this I'm just trying to subtly shape people
into my World Views one Twitter post at a time.
Yeah you know it was interesting people have been poking around
at this story for a little while.
I'll add a Washington Post reporter reach out to me like
three months ago and they were like I heard, you're someone, I
should talk to about this and about specifically the paid for
tweets issue. I couldn't tell like what their
angle was if they were trying to get me to say that I pay for
tweets or something. Yeah.
And so I got on the phone with her and I was like, listen, if
someone saying that, let's be very clear.
No, I am not doing that, I'll hundred percent.
If you're going to run that, I am going to like, get on a bully
pulpit and call you Al Her, you're gonna see me go fake news
on. This, was that the claim that
they came out? No, no, just like, oh, you're
one of those annoying, VCS on Twitter and you might be a great
person to enter that. We was more like you would have
an opinion about this. I think was her angle, but I was
immediately, like, if someone is selling my name, like the
originality is of my tweets. I will come for them, right?
So, I immediately got defensive because I knew that this article
one. Listen, it's logical that people
are doing this right in a very high level.
Hey, Is there a opportunity in Arbitrage that exists from very
well paid people that maybe don't have a lot of time or
don't have a lot of creativity to come up with stuff like this
and then very creative people that have lots of time and don't
have a lot of money. Like is there an Arbitrage
opportunity that exists there? Yes, my criticism with this
article is not that. It's not happening because I
have to think it is right. You know.
I don't want to undermine Business Insider's reporting.
It seems like they have And stamps and, you know, wire
receipts and all that. There were enough little details
in this story that just like, didn't ring true to me that I'm
not, and we can go through and talk about some of the specific
one. Like, yeah, let's deconstruct
it. By the way, I had nothing to do
with this story. So I feel confident in being
able to read this article, I'll leave commentary.
That's critical to you guys. Well, to be fair like insiders
defense, right? It's an As Told to, right?
It's a zoo. So like a bit, you know, Insider
validated the Is identity, right?
They validated some form of wire, receipts.
And so I think there's enough of a story there or that, that
alone is interesting, right? This whole thing is interesting,
just from like a palace Intrigue and you know, whenever we can
talk about all the different things so before we get into
the, did it happen? Exactly like this article lays
out, I just want to touch on why there would be demand for this
in the first place like Logan. I've written a story about you
which I called a Twitter trolls take on the future of investing.
So your son. Who's very clearly in a sort of
Envy speak, even laid out to your El.
Psy like tweeting and podcasting is important to be seized right
now. But yeah, explain that to our
audience. Why would there even be a market
for like, who cares would have EC tweets?
So I think we talked a little bit about this in that article
that you did. But once upon a time, let's say
early 2000. BC was very much a cottage
industry where VC's controlled capital and Founders came to
them. Them looking for access to that
Capital, right? And diligence process has lasted
a long time and entrepreneurs had to jump through hoops.
And ultimately it was only a handful of mostly white men that
sort of controlled the purse strings of, who got funded, and
who didn't write. And then over the course of the
last 20 years, I sort of call that like the broadcast
television days is those were the days in which you know, your
only job is a VC was to be broadly appealing.
So as not to be Two ended not be eliminated from this little boys
club cottage industry, right? And really you needed to suck up
to the other, VCS more than anything because you're great
deal flow from them, it was sort of protected you just wanted a
generic good brand, you know, I mean there was still sort of a
you want to be, you know, you want to have a little bit of
spiciness because it's not banking, you know, it's Venture
but yeah, yeah. But even still like sure, you
hear stories of Sequoia and Kleiner duking it out for like
Google and stuff. But like for the Most part it
was much more collegial and how it operated.
And then I sort of Market 2008. Ish, post-financial crisis
happens to coincide with the Andreessen Horowitz coming up.
Fred Wilson was vlogging in a meaningful way, right?
Like all these Twitter was kind of proliferating as a medium.
This is the cable television. Yeah.
Cable. We're broadcasting cable, right?
Where there's some level of personalization that exists,
right? And so, like, you have funds
that starts focusing on. Oh, we're a growth only.
Find Ray like once upon a time that was not a thing.
But now we're going to only do growth.
There were only going to do fintech or we're only going to
do Healthcare right and VC started to.
I think the Andreessen Horowitz folks did a good job of like
pulling back the veil a little bit in terms of how the industry
operated and you know Ben Horowitz was leading with rap
posts at the beginning of his article right and there was just
a little bit more personality that existed there.
We've had Parker Conrad on the show before and he obviously has
specific a feelings about Andreessen Horowitz.
But his line that stuck with me is that they're basically a
media company with an investment arm attached to it.
Yeah. Parker's the fucking best I had
him on and he went in but you had a great.
Yeah he went into depth about Andreessen Horowitz was an
interesting that episode first. He was our first guests, what
great job interviewing him. And for some reason he decided
to go like full Hit Em Up On David Sachs and then were we
sort of warmed him up. He was a little Paranoid on ours
and then he was like, okay nothing bad happened to me when
I did that. And, you know, you got an even.
That's right. You prime the pump for?
Yeah, exactly. You were my opening act, okay?
Then the next era post-2020 is the streaming are.
Then the next day, right now, as capital got abundant right?
Like you sort of got your infinite choice of what type of
capital you wanted. And if you wanted a fintech,
only early stage fund, that was backed by whatever former has
bananas. It's Avatar.
We are what? Yeah, yeah, you got all your
choices, right. And so we enter the Cartoon
Network are A Avicii, the Cartoon Network area.
I say it's sort of tick-tock personalization, where
everything you like, have your option of like any personalized
feed of capital provider and I think that has been true.
Now with the pullback may be less, and we'll do they that
after that's sort of the next logical.
So, but going into the bubble and I think this like insiders
story about paying for tweets is sort of, you know, it's
reflecting a period that might be ending or might continue, but
sort of at least until the And of, like last year in the first
quarter of this year, this was the streaming Wars idea was like
very much the mood. Yeah.
Where everyone was just trying to cut through the noise, right?
And I said this, Eric when I was talking to you about this, in
the thing we did is like it's better to be Donald Trump than
it is to be Jeb, Bush and Venture.
And it's kind of like this that, you know, even comparing
anything to Donald Trump is polarizing, but we don't live in
a ranked Choice world of venture capital.
It's like to be second is to be a loser, right?
And the same thing. As in the primary process where
if you're going through primaries right?
You want to appeal deeply to as big of a subset of the
population as you can but it's much better to appeal very
deeply to a smaller group than it is to be milquetoast or like
broadly, kind of rice and likable to a broader group,
right? Are you willing to be mean
enough? Do you have the hatred in your
heart? And not like, no.
I'm being sincere though. I mean I feel like there is
almost an incentive to be like Keith and really like fighting
with people on Twitter. Do you always adhere to your own
principle on this or like are you intentionally alienating
subsets of people go to I don't push to the outer end a
polarization right for sure. Like that's just not my
personality but I have pushed the outer end of certain types
of content. For example like I think I was
fucking around on Twitter and playing more of a Stephen
Colbert, ish parody personality. We first interacted you tweeted
a joke like a fake email or something I was sort of Due to
your account and I was like the scold who is like, you know,
half the people consuming this don't realize it's fake and like
that was back in the days where I was like, oh chase down dumb
shit on Twitter or whatever I think you might I forget if you
deleted that or not you were sort of now.
I didn't delete it. And no, come on because I got
scolded by are no Dumber. Come on.
That was like with there are some I mean you want the parody
be to be obvious to a certain percentage of people, right?
Or I don't know this week and yeah that's all day.
Like how many people need to know?
It's Joke for it. To make sense.
Yeah. And like who you're appealing to
and not. But to some extent, there's this
element of people feeling like they're on the end on the joke
and then when it goes outside the bubble of the people that
are in on the joke, it actually makes the joke better to those.
People that role that side right wing troll type but it's very
mean-spirited. That idea that you're happy
about it. Let's zoom in towards the
article and we can debate the higher level stuff after way and
tries. You know, like you're saying.
I think the article capture is a specific point in time.
Maybe one that is ending, but it's absolutely something that I
imagined. CCS recognized at a certain
point, which is like, oh shit, I'm getting attention for this.
I've developed a personality and this may actually have
Downstream effects, beneficial Downstream effects towards deal
flow. And, you know, it seems like
it's just feeding my ego like from the outside if you wouldn't
think about how it could potentially help you in your,
you know, actual day job, you would think, oh, this is just
narcissism and that, you know, the base horrible Instinct that
fuels all of the bullshit on Twitter, but it sounds like
you're saying that there's, you know, real Financial upside to
it. We should you get everyone to
remember, you exist? I mean, as a newsletter writer
it's like if you like everybody returns my texts and emails,
whenever I publish and like similarly I think when you're
tweeting a lot, people are thinking about you more, and you
can feel the inbound come at you.
And so I can imagine from the VCR perspective, it's a lot.
Like the me, I should go look at like the actual report because I
referenced it too many times so I should get my facts right on
this. But there were some study done
right about like people that were shown a list of names of
people like six weeks before, Anna.
Election. And then when the election came
to be, they didn't know any of the candidates.
But just based on the familiarity of having seen those
names before, they're like proclivity to pick those
candidates. And so it's hard to know right?
What you don't see is the negative of it particularly as
you pick a more polarizing view of stuff, right?
And you're like joking around and I've gotten yelled at online
before you don't see how many people are kind of like fuck
this guy right but the advantage of just name recognition and
people knowing you exist in the world.
Olds. I've seen it be super
advantageous for me and just cutting through the noise at an
incremental level. I mean, who am I right?
I'm 34 years old, Finance, background liberal arts school.
Major have never been an operator like have had a decent
investing career experience. But like you know, why would
anyone want to work with me versus?
I don't know. X other person that has had
infinitely more success and infinite more like operating
experience or whatever, right? And if people feel like they
know me a little bit more and they feel like there's a little
bit bit more personality there. I've seen it be effective,
right? And so, I don't know how much to
actually attribute it to this. It's one of these like brand
marketing, how do you even come up with Roi or anything?
But I can tell you anecdotally. It's been impactful.
I mean it's funny Logan that like why VCS and journalists are
at each other's throat. A lot on Twitter when there's
actually very similar impulses and downstream effects to being
obnoxious on Twitter, that maybe that's the reason why they don't
get along. Because in the same way that
capital is a commodity facts are ultimately a Aditi.
Right? We're just trying to gather
facts from people inside companies and when it comes down
to it through the internet, it's all compressed through the same
pipes. And so a big story that comes
out through insider versus the information versus even the
Washington Post. I think the New York Times is
maybe the one that's slightly different, but by and large, you
know, when you push these things through the same place, it's all
the same. And so you kind of got to figure
how can I get these people that have the information to want, to
talk to me, and the outlet, or this tactic that certain
journalists take, which is to be a personality.
He on Twitter, which I had. By the way, don't necessarily
agree with, but this is not an episode about journalists that
was a long subtweet of Ryan Mac by the way, but and you are.
But anyway, I don't tweet that much and I should, sometimes I
should pay somebody. My question is, I mean, do you
know, I like to offer my services to journalists, by the
way, I can be your Ghostwriter number.
Your tweets should be good at tweeting but he doesn't have the
followers to back it up. Or you don't know why I need to
go through other outlets? So journalists come to me.
I will go straight your tweets. I will complain about the New
York Times. Stealing your stories.
I can write those tweets. I can write sweet about 0 as we
previously reported, and then linking to a story that you
didn't write. I can do those.
Yeah, anyway, I'm sure there's a Chinese menu of snarky
journalist tweets dying. Just go to the soundboard and
play the hits of all these things.
Easy, what's the like pricing on?
Like the I feel like the thing that's hardest to believe on the
Insiders Dory is just like how much, you know, two hundred
thousand last year at go straight in I mean I all the
time, can we just get to the story?
Then you want to just read it? We are talking about this area,
what you want to read this, okay?
I was going to read some paragraphs read, Summit, read
some of it. Okay?
So this is just the top here. Ghost writing tweets or venture
capitalist? Is my side hustle.
It's like the opening for Goodfellas.
I like that last year. I made two hundred thousand, so
there's your number are if some VCS will pay you per tweet, I've
done a hundred thousand threads to announce a big funding round.
I've also done a hundred dollar tweets, other VCS pay you per
month for 5,000 to 10,000. All right, ten original tweets,
a month and the rate goes up quickly from there.
So like this is right now the financial Or to buy these
numbers. Logan did they sound right to
you from what you've seen in the community.
So we're usually they use a hundred thousand dollars for a
funding round announcement. That's what it sounds like a
thread. Yeah, I don't know.
I like hard for me to say it's one of these things like with
brand Marketing in general, how do you attribute, what anything
is worth? And so, is it possible that
people would be willing to pay for something like this?
Yeah. Totally.
I guess it's totally possible where it sort of broke down for
me is the way this person talks about it.
It makes it seem like it's this very liquid.
Good Market of like, you know, that there's some up work like
site in which people are bidding jobs and, you know, okay, I'll
do this versus that and like this is my card rate for that
kind of thing versus not. And I would think 125 250
clients across all of these different jobs.
Like I would think I would have some idea that this is like
going on or who this person you know that like people are doing
this in Mass. It wouldn't surprise me.
Hey, if an associate at a venture firm we're like, right?
Some tweets, right? Like that's definitely
happening. It wouldn't surprise me if there
was like some comedian or some journalists who was like built a
relationship. Hey, Eric and I have a
relationship and so Eric's writing and occasional like
thought piece for me on Twitter fright.
But like this liquid Market of all these different jobs that
are going on to the point that like the person's able to
consistently Bill five hours a week and two hundred thousand
dollars a year. That's where we're my bullshit
meter on. This was like that just doesn't
feel right to me, right? Or I'm totally obviated from
this going on, which it would seem like something that I would
be aware of, right? If it would seem if there's any
person that I think I would be on a short list of people, that
should know this is going on and I didn't know this was going on.
Everywhere is like podcasting you must get in your DMs all the
time. Like people are like I can build
your podcast like the distribution or there are all
these Hustlers around content products that promise they can
do great stuff for you. But yeah this is what we don't
hear a chat about you. Do here like meme accounts often
I think Talk about how people DM them, like draft, tweet ideas
for them to send out, right? I mean there's a level, like you
get people who just like pitch, you like Logan style tweets, not
random people, but buddies buddies, do all the time.
Probably have three friends. One in particular who will be
like, send me an idea and be like, hey, this is funny.
I can't say this, but is there something we can do about this
yzn? Would you pay me a hundred
thousand for it or yeah. What is there, what he said?
It to me, and he's like, what's all this in?
Kind friendship bullshit, that I've been getting from you of
like us brainstorming ideas. You know, why aren't I getting
hundreds of thousands of dollars from you out of it?
So, I do feel bad, sometimes my friends will say something
clever and a text threatened. It's like, oh yeah, that's a
good idea. Like then he tweeted out you're
like oh, what a genius, you are. I don't know.
I'm probably sort of higher on the level of like, want my
authentic ideas of my Twitter, then some, I don't know if they
send me want to keep going through like the things that
This article said, but I do think it's an interesting thing
of like the desire for authenticity that exists here.
It would feel for some reason like a bait and switch, right?
It's the Twitter Persona of the VCU were following wasn't
actually written by the person right there, right?
That would. But like we don't hold Trevor
Noah to the same. You know.
Like if you're like me started, do like people delude themselves
on, they think of actors, is having said, the line, you know,
like as actors it being there. R quote even though like
somebody else wrote it? Yeah, sure.
Or like a speechwriter. No one's like oh like Obama
wrote. This great speech.
Everyone like is a comfortable with the fact that Jon Favreau
probably wrote like all of the words and Obama just read it but
for some reason this would feel very inauthentic and I'm not
totally sure what that is and why I would feel that way about
it. Like, why some things we accept
like, okay, there's going to be a full team, working and
writing, and all that versus other things were kind of like
it. Maybe it's because it's an
ancillary part of the job rather than a Part of the job.
And so we kind of just feels dirtier that way.
If you're just like grifting on your side part of your job, I
don't know. That feels like a little
weirder, but well, I think it also depends on how much of a
specifically identifiable character.
You have built as your Twitter presence that people would pay
attention, whether it feels authentic or not, right?
Because Trump, we know, while he was on Twitter and I don't have
any idea with truth social, it was always like, oh, he didn't
write this one. Various people like in his orbit
that would write things for him. Whereas, you know, at this point
is like, who that isn't feel like a Keith for boy.
I don't know. Didn't have like the, you know,
the particular bitchiness that he's so good at but that's like
weird. Trump would have the ones that
are obviously, like he's right. And then the ones that were
like, didn't look anything like his.
But there I mean that almost speaks to, you know, he's style
really came through but his fans don't hate.
It is the thing, right? I mean like it's different
because people, you know, are clearly fixated on him but when
there were a couple of tweets that were like clearly not
written by him, people would be like that.
Well that's just Trump being Trump, you know like if there
were a couple of I don't know. Good example, in the VC world
would be who are the top 10 right off the Dome, big hitters
of VC, Twitter and your mind Logan.
Let's go right now. Well, I think Andreessen right
there now he's just changes the status now but whenever he comes
back you know, I don't know. I mean there was like a four
week period where it felt like every week there was some new
topic about it was all related to his tweeting.
So I would be hard-pressed to not read him high on the list.
Absolutely. I mean Keith obviously We've
referenced he has and that is one of the main ones out there.
His brand is just saying, no, yeah, violation.
He gets into fights with random people.
Probably most of them are bought saying, I know more about this
topic than you'll know about anything your whole life or
whatever. Yeah, yeah, I love it.
I love it. Yeah, he's excellent.
Honestly, I've talked to him about that.
We did interview on the podcast with him and one of the things
he said was like a lot of the stuff he learned, it was like PR
stuff. He employed at Square.
Of Psych. Hey, and this is just a
statement about the social apps as well as Humanity probably use
like engaging in good. Faith discussion is just such a
losing battle. I'm saying wrong saying, wrong
or late? You're a moron right?
Is like, how does someone come back from that, right?
So he's like, I just kind of learned, that's the better way
of approaching these, which is just like a such a thing in of
America and realpolitik. Yeah, Because we all kind of
know where morons and so when you call them out is that
because we often haven't spent the time to fully understand
what we're writing that when someone's like no you're just
wrong. You're like, oh shit, I probably
am. So it's a smart move on his part
and then you want to come back though because your job is
rooted, in fact, right? In like actually having
substance to back things up and then you're coming back with
like no Keith. Here's the three rings and
you're wrong and at that point you've already lost, you know
and he like does it poop emoji and you know whatever right now
you're done right, we've moved on.
Yeah it does. Matter.
Okay, so we got Keith, we got and reason.
Gosh, who else does a really good job?
I mean, I feel like Jai you know, it's a different style,
Josh Wolf, I think is always actually posting interesting
kind of substantive stuff. Yeah out there and I have a lot
of respect for Josh. I mean I love my occasional
podcast co-host is Zach Weinberg who has battled Keith quite a
bit but he's always an entertaining personality
tweeting. I mean Steve it's axes.
Bigger house acts duh though. It's mostly like let's let
Russia and behold the whole world sort of hold Thing.
Yeah, in calacanis probably, you know, I don't know if you call
him a VC or whatever you call them, the calacanis, it's
always, you know, like him. So sure.
He give you see that's a compliment.
I mean, Paul G blocked me for a long time, but when he tweets,
it's still. Is you Tweeting his hologram?
Yeah. And Balaji 2008.
I mean, navall is sort of falling off, right?
Or like, I don't see this. Yeah sweetie.
Yeah. I mean he's like tweeting like
cones of now like he's like the Buddha or something.
I haven't seen him to eat as much.
I Just always try to reply to the Vol when he would say
something and he came up to me at a party one time and we had
never met before. And now we just like reply with,
you know, he would say the most important thing in life is the
decision of where you live. And I said, like, no Vols wife
reading this like, you know, shaking my head or something,
right? And he came up to me one time at
a party, and he has so many followers, and get so many
replies, right? And so, I just thought I was,
like, some random ass and just like, making myself, laugh.
And he came up to me and he was like, you motherfucker, he's
like, I've wanted to block you So many times, I got the thought
of blocking you so many times and then every third time you'll
really make me laugh. And so I like convince myself
that I should and I was like, oh thanks snowball.
I appreciate that. Now that he was prolific, I
think the thing is it Ebbs and flows, right?
Like Twitter in general is a medium just kind of Ebbs and
flows and that's one of the things I found is like in
tweeting. I've sort of you're not as hot
as you were. Yeah, I'm now sort of focus on
the podcasting thing because you sort of figure out a form factor
that works and then your Come because of that form factor or
style, right? And there's really only two ways
to grow in a meaningful way. On Twitter, it's like jokes and
shit posts or like threads. Those are some really only two
more Scoops, but sir, we are your way.
Yeah, it's a lot of it does. I mean, that's all I have.
I mean, I have more newsletter subscribers and Twitter
followers, which speaks to which medium, yeah, more successful
on. Yeah.
But the thing is, once you get to a certain level, it's kind of
like you start to box yourself in In to that's what people want
from you, right? And I always think of the
Wedding Crasher scene where it's like make me a bicycle clown and
it's like whenever I would deviate from something they'd be
like, you know to give me the bicycle like side doing the
subduing, the insights pain, right?
Funny man. That's not why I came here,
right? So, I do think Twitter, like,
people add them flow with their, like interests and do Ian and
Founders fund. He used to fight so much if you
like his Twitter is mellowed out.
I think people just get busy and distracted with other stuff like
delians running a company and you.
Whatever, but I mean CM lesson does his screenshot, sorry.
I'm still going through my list of who's the real a lot of men,
obviously, but on the article thing though, it's an
interesting confirmation bias of, I think, people just want to
believe this to be true. And again, the story itself is
interesting enough. One of the quotes in, there was
most VCS, who are playing the content game, employ a bunch of
writers. I know people who make almost
seven figures doing this. And again, I think I would know
if that were the case. Like I think if were people
making seven figures writing and not to say it's not happening.
I don't want to again, this is an Insider saying.
This is whoever the person is that saying it, I just find it
really hard to believe but I don't know.
I mean there's a lot of capital in the ecosystem, right?
Well I love the idea of the Griff that a writer would have
here in claim. You know, we got a whole writers
room of people Keith. We're going to pump up some
treats for you and then they come back to them like a day
later with this a narrative violation, just throw that bomb
into the mix and see what happens.
But it's sad thing. Obviously is it's not even like
the big It's probably like the more boring accounts that want
like that's the thing. If you're willing to pay someone
because you think oh you pay people for the best information
than the type of person who has terrible taste.
And, you know, is going to like be happy with like, really Bland
tweets. Well, that's how it gets.
I think to the point we're saying about authenticity here
because I think the people that are pure posters that you know
the ones that you know, Logan was mentioning here are the ones
who it is their core being it is the way they view the world that
their brain functions in, you know, tweets that get
engagement. Aunt.
And it's why I'm assuming that this person that was interviewed
here for the article is probably doing second or third-tier
things which kind of defeats the whole purpose of it.
Because if we can't you know, if we're going to guess that it's
not famous people. Then what are they really
gaining from it right? Like what do they actually know
what deal flow all the stuff about being a public personas?
They can get more, you know, to benefit their Core Business.
It's not even really there which is why it's kind of just like,
you know, like the Overflow of money in the space and people
just being absurdly wealthy, just trickles down to it, you
know, a writer here or there. About Sequoia.
I mean, rule of has 92 thousand Twitter followers, hard to
believe. It's Sequoia, retweeted me
there. Sequoia corporate account.
Retweeted me one time. They have 631 thousand
followers. Nothing happened.
It was like a mini injury sanur by far.
I think corporate accounts are hard just in general.
Like, people follow those like passively right rather than but
them in Andresen had by far, the biggest follower count and I
assume people are just following it for General information about
deals and stuff like that. Not for like actual engagement,
right? People don't engage with a
corporate. That's why you see like
occasionally when Wendy's goes off the, you know, whatever and
like some of these Brands start flapping back it is super
entertaining but people don't follow corporate accounts for
the actual information. I think one of the things that's
interesting though is that dichotomy that would exist from
like building this Persona online in such a way that is
incongruous with your own. Personality or style, right?
And I felt that a little bit where I was playing this cold
bearish VC voice, and then people would beat me and they
would be like, I think some people would expect me to be in
character. Right.
You know, whatever or like, be funnier than I was in person or
something, right? I don't know if you guys have
ever been around comedians but like some of the funniest people
I've ever met in my life, like you meet them and they're not
actually like funny on a day-to-day.
Like some are good, some are Insufferable where they're
always like trying to make jokes.
It can go either way. I know.
But I even have like some of the people I interact with that are
like the funniest people. I know are like, have a very
dark, they're like, very quiet. And they have like, very like
dark witty, quips that are going on in their head and then they
like, say it very subtly, but it doesn't come across right like
in the same way. And I think that's interesting
of if you're building this public Persona around something,
that is an authentic to who you are, and then people meet you,
right? And it's like, wait, hang on,
that's not what I thought. I was getting right and so
that's an interesting thing as well.
It's like to what end eventually you have to meet these people in
person are diamonds just like, hey, I took your money.
You need to get your jokes per minute up when we're hanging
out. Yeah, exactly.
He's, like, this isn't, you know, this isn't what I signed
up for Matt. You're like, over here, trying
to talk to me about, like, hack payback and efficiency metrics
is like, but I need some memes out of you.
Yeah, I thought that board meeting was to be way more
fucking like pithy than just asking me about.
Let's write your own goals. Can we get to the part of the
story that I found interesting? Because you know it no.
Okay, yeah, no go. Yeah yeah I know.
I'm just kidding. Okay, here's this part.
Everyone involved in Tech at a global scale has a political
project. Most of them are open border
guys, they want to be the immigration reform drum because
they need to hire Engineers. A lot of my clients are
interested in Tech policy and National Security.
China, deterrence missile defense, the government
procurement process. I can help them sound like their
knowledgeable and In The Weeds on this stuff, man, I hope he's
not charging a ton for. Sometimes tweets about policy
arguments can get pretty close to what you'd call an op-ed.
So this is weird to me this part of it because it's trying to
graft a political low like a business rationale on to
political tweets and I just don't agree that that's the
case. I honestly think all these guys,
you know, the all in people any of the other people, have you
mentioned so far that are tweeting about politics and, you
know, all the fucking day long, think they do it?
Because they really think their political opinions are
interesting and they want to get it out there.
Right, it's not even good for business or they just can't help
themselves. Like yeah, honestly, what
prolific interesting person. This figure whoever this is must
be that they're like five hours a week, right?
Five hours a week for 200 Grand a year.
They're waiting in 25 to 50 VC's in boxes that come up with
tweets. They have their own burner phone
to do this, which is just hilarious.
That like that was a part of the article.
It's like I have my own CRM. My own burner phone a thick what
in the world, why do you need your own?
Like the chat apps work pretty well across different platforms
like an Excel sheet where I don't think you need a personal
CRM for this, but it feels like they just this person must be
amazingly intelligent to be able to just talk in someone else's
voice. Let alone, one person, but 25 to
50 people and then come up with funny jokes, as well as, like
immigration policy threads, and be able to craft all that back
to like the voice that this individual wants to have all
while being a founder of another company that Are spending, you
know the vast majority of their time doing.
I don't know. It felt like to me there was
like cobbled together a bunch of interesting truths here
probably, and they decided to just like, you know, maybe this
is five different people that they turned it into the
amalgamation of one or something.
It just feels like they try to jam too many things into one.
Like, here's what I'm doing, right?
And make too many different points.
When any of these points could have been interesting on their
own. It does feel like this needed to
be a real person. Like a named person, I don't
know. I find it a little hard to
believe. They have a process here at
Insider where they do try to verify these things and I'm sure
went through that process. I think what they're trying to
get at why the story was popular, is that it does seem to
be that there are like, we talked about, ulterior motives
to being a Twitter personality to presence.
And whether you can do it yourself, ready to hire someone
to do it. I do think there's a sense, the
Twitter's, like, dying or like, I don't know, do you feel like
Twitter is like decaying? I think that keeps coming up in
the Our station right heel on buying it.
The like it's not just the markets gotten worse, but it
feels like Twitter, the experience or is that too?
Or just always heard of Bleak on there.
I don't know. I mean honestly it feels like it
feels like people that have increased new levels of fame or
new levels of notoriety or celebrity then look around at
their like Twitter presence and they're like, what is good?
Like all these people are attacking me and it's like,
well, you are Weighing in on global events across the world
and you do have millions of followers and so like your
experience may be has changed because of how your profile has
been raised and how your profile has gone up.
Not anything inherent de like Twitter, the app and so to some
extent Twitter gets all this criticism of the experience.
Right? From people, whose experience
has noticeably changed because they're far richer and far more
famous and weighing in on issues that they didn't in the past.
And so, If that's what's always funny to me.
When he lands like, oh, how many people their replies are all
Bots when they post something, right?
And he's like, everyone only gets bot replies in crypto spam.
And I'm like, dude, like you're the most followed person on a
platform, right? Yeah.
It's not represent experience is different than my experience on
the platform and so I don't know if Twitter is actually dying.
I mean I do think that all these new form factors that are coming
out are interesting and like should be explored and be that
you know whatever Tick-Tock or reels or YouTube I mean you're
paying someone and Been wanting to say this and you're paying
red point. Is someone to create tick-tocks,
right? I mean, can you talk about that?
Yeah, well, that's, you know, whatever that's not his entirety
of his job. But yeah, we shot a Seer, we
hired from he was at looker. That's all I see, you know?
Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
He comes on him. He's a producer, I see him on my
tic tocs, you know, he's a producer for my podcast as well.
And then he does a bunch of internal stuff with other than
sand in content with our portfolio companies at a bunch
of different things. But yes, that is some one I
guess to be very clear that we Was what Drew us to hiring him?
Was that he was creative and good at content.
And I guess this is an interesting thing that kind of
dovetails back to the overall thing.
We're talking about is I found when we were trying to produce
content or get our name out there more and more inevitably,
it always falls to the bottom of investors priorities to do this
stuff. Like, it's always, hey, you have
a list of 15 things and this is the 16th and you never get to
it, right? It's like unless you're willing
to bump it up to the 4th or 3rd or whatever thing.
Never going to get to it versus talking to the next founder,
whatever. And so in talking to one of the
thought process and bringing over shy because hey, he's
funny, interesting creative and he's going to be a kind of a
Swiss Army knives that can do a bunch of different stuff for us.
But then to having someone that wakes up everyday kind of
thinking about content in some way shape or form, he's
launching a podcast here in the next couple weeks or like a
YouTube series thing. And just having someone that
like his thinking, about that every day, but all that's to
say, like, the more important thing was in trying to Get my
co-workers to produce content. It was never a priority.
It's a priority at a strategic meeting and we're like, oh, this
should be a priority. And so, we talked about it,
right? And then like one person or two
people goes and executes on it when everyone else is like, oh I
forgot about that priority, right?
And so that was one of the things for it, which I think
ties back to why you would pay someone else that would make it
a priority for them, right? Yeah.
Has there ever been significant blowback?
Do you think they're VCS who have lost out on deals because
they were so committed to tweeting about their Fierce
commitment to Borders that you know, there was some like
potential startup Founders that were like a fucked.
This guy. I don't want this guy on my
board because he's going to you know, it's a funny story.
I mean this is like related to your question less heft than
open borders, but we had a joke, Rashad made this video about VC,
six months ago versus VC's now. And the joke was how fickle VCS
are in their advice. That was the joke, but one of
the comments of six months ago were like, hey, you need to hire
as many people as you can, and let's blitzscale our marketing
department and then it like cuts To VCS now.
And it's like, do you really need a marketing department,
right? And the joke wasn't like, about
the role of marketing. The joke was like, how fickle
BCS were in their advice. But I'll tell you, there's a lot
of humorless people on the internet and one CEO.
In particular, got very fired up about that and was like, I would
never work with a DC that is so, flippant about the roles of
layoffs and all that. And Then it got set around
internally and then you know whatever it got the original
your enemies within red Point. Used it to knife you like
however yeah exactly. So I this is my I announced my
departure from Red Boy you know. But the original tweet got like
two thousand likes and then this one person got 60 or whatever
trying to clap back at us. But you know what like 60 likes
and 15 replies saying. I'm never going to work with
this firm again or I'll never have them on my list.
It does feel like a big Deal in the grand scheme of things.
And so to some extent, like, I actually respect Founders Fund
in a meaningful Way for their ability to say, hey, we're not
going to appeal to everyone, and we're going to tell a lot of
people to fuck off, but we're going to try to feel deeply to
some subset of this. And so we've had that experience
here in the last couple months, and it had to be a conversation
internally about like, hey, our jokes worth people, disliking
us. Because that sort of, even if
you have a 90% approval rating and you reach 100,000 people,
that means 10,000. People are going to dislike you,
right? And back him seem like, Lot when
they're yelling at you online. Well, this is C.
This is where it gets to be Crossover with journalists again
because I think it's the same calculation journalists have of
like. All right I can make this joke
or I can make fun of Facebook in this particular way and it could
piss off some number of people. I'm I willing to accept that in
order to get the other people that might be more inclined to
follow me or like me relief things to me like let me see
what that trade-off is. So it's all flattened through.
The same medium people are so much meaner journalists have
such thicker skin than BCS do like you guys get roasted like
all the time with people angry at you for doing your job,
right? Like you doing your job,
involves people getting mad at you more often than not like
breaking a scoop you know, Eric broke some Scoops today and I
was like fuck man. Come like come on, really like
did you really have to do that, right?
About one of our portfolio companies and so you're doing
your job is like, actually annoying people at times.
And people can be very vitriolic to reporters about stuff, right?
And all the fake news and, you know, whatever all the
animosity. I don't feel too bad for
reporters. First of all, we're out there.
Like I was going to say. Also, you have to keep in mind
that we make a lot of money, you know, that's the thing that's so
wealthy. And so it's like you're willing
to accept some of the slings and arrows in order to get that 78
figure. Well, yeah, and you all have
verified check marks on Twitter and you get to, you know,
whatever, all those like Met Ball Galas and stuff.
I do the most invigorating is definitely for all the VCS to be
like the real Elites are the reporters, you know?
It's like not the people who make a bazillion In dollars.
It's the fucking reporters. Who are the real Elites?
It is a funny though. I mean baked not to say I feel
badly for reporters. It's more of contrast of like
how sensitive VCS can be about stuff isn't right.
And at the end of the day we get paid very well to do a pretty
fun job. I do think it's a very San
Francisco thing or I mean like Wall Street Finance.
I mean, I feel like people while do complain about getting
attacked. I don't think there is like
surprise. I do think part of it is that VC
works so well in that you can always add somebody else to
around. So there's just such an
incentive in that business to be nice to everybody in a way that
feels great. Like I, yeah, it's nice to be in
a business where people can be nice and then it makes people
shocked when people aren't and they're like why it works?
So well when you're I wonder how much I mean 21 like a lot of
people in Tech at large, right? We're probably more introverted
and not like, you know, Didn't have the popularity, Sports
thing through high school and college and all of that stuff,
right? And so there's some like, hey
now I've made it. And so when people now I'm cool,
right? And by my childhood, people were
mean, and there were these Meathead bullies, but now I'm
not that, and so when there's criticism coming it's like wait,
hang on, I'm past that point, right?
Like this is bringing back memories of my middle school and
I don't like that, right? And so I think part of it is Is
made, but it's a trauma to this box.
Yeah. Yeah.
It's like hang on, hang on. Like and you do not put me in
that Locker again, I told Tommy Greene if he ever did that and
then the other one I think that's interesting is like there
is this inherent optimism and now I mean it's kind of
counterbalance with some level of like broad-based mule ISM
that I think also exist. But the like the tenant of BC
and technology is like optimism ever believing in the future and
all that. And so when people start poking
and prodding that, I think there's an inherent
defensiveness that comes out and also it's a lot easier to sound
a cynic than it is to sound an octopus.
Right? And so I think people just over
correct on those things and it comes off in a vitriolic, kind
of way. Did you ever concluding thought
on this Tom? And then I did want to talk
about the market for 10 minutes? No, I think we should all, you
know, keep fighting on Twitter. I think it's clearly doing good
for all of our personal Brands I want to Rate my offer to
journalists, I don't have a lot of followers but that's because,
you know, I'm very concerned about my personal brand, but I
can build up other people's and I would like to just put my
skills out there to someone. If you are a journalist, you
don't think you're getting the gauge me.
Think you should get, you want to get into fights with people.
I can offer those tweets reach out to me.
My dams are open, Tom has the weirdest.
I'm gonna link to some of the Tom tweets that are like jokes
on, like streaming platform, wants to be the New Yorker, you
know, you don't need to appeal, broadly to everyone, Tom.
You have a very sophisticated palate that, like, keep us what
I like, you know, it's a small but extremely high influence
audience of people? I think that's right.
Either I think make the time not to psychoanalyze you but to do
it but I really do. You make you make joke that
there were a lot like I like them because they rely on
knowing like your voice and so if you know your voice and your
sensibility, it's like rorty, like no lever.
But like nobody your buddy, laughs.
Maybe less It's like, do you know what my hope is that it
Burrows into your brain and then like a couple of hours later
you're like oh yeah, I guess that was kind of funny and then
and then you move on with your day.
I keep making content for the unwashed masses but Tom that the
real caviar Taste of humor, right?
He's not only sell out like you back to the broadcast Cable
model. I mean, you're kind of you're
out there doing CBS sitcoms, you know?
That's right. That's right.
Popularity. Our podcast has a dead cat.
Like, definitely. There we got a couple people
were like a dead cat like Like, how dare you invoke that image?
Like, it's terrible for SEO. But yeah, yeah.
But it weeds out the people who are concerned about that.
All right, let's go through our serious PC.
So naturally we're going to spend 90% of time talking about
Twitter and 10%. But like, I mean I have course I
actually don't remember which of these companies you'd invested
in earlier but you know I just wrote about like a hundred
million dollar series 175 million series a of 500 million
series C, all happening recently.
And just as Idea that like yep I don't know.
Series a bcc'd. People are willing to go
aggressive. The growth stage funds are like
diving in whereas growth is still super hard.
You're more of a growth investor I mean yeah I don't know where
we grow that desus or like yeah, you've been tempted to go early.
Oh yeah, funny enough, I guess. Timing-wise were reporting this
on what a Friday. And last night I got together
with a bunch of our limited partners and so I had to pull
together a bunch of Data and, you know, kind of collect my
thoughts. Unstuff, right.
Just sound intelligent and I don't know if that worked but I
did collect thoughts and it's interesting, right?
I will say that what we've seen at the series B series C, stage
is like, definitely a pullback in terms of valuations.
So this was kind of a proprietary analysis that we had
internally, and I'm going to give you the broad Strokes of
it, but the deals that we care about Eight, which is a very at
the moment in time and a very qualitative assessment, but
we've been doing it for six years or whatever, right.
And we saw a step up between 2020 and 2021 of it went from
like do the math on it. I guess it went from 255 million
to just under 600 million for series bees for the average
price of deals, you care about correct the median.
But yeah and so it was like a 2X step up in the revenue.
Multiple of that went from 32. Times to a hundred and fifty
three times. Right?
Right. And the room also increased by
much more than the valuation. Correct.
And so what was happening was at the scale of these companies
went from five million down to two million.
And so, people were both going earlier in these companies and
paying more, right? And so obviously that's how the
multiple of those up in such a meaningful way.
Now, since in 2022, we've seen it falls at 595 is down to 39 T
fish and the multiples. I'm from 153 to 110.
So it's fallen off but not at the level before all this was
going on, right? If you go back to 2019 or even
2020, we're talking like 25 to 35 times, right?
These like sort of the and you can justify that because these
companies are growing to 2/3 x. And so hey like when you compare
that to the public market how does that make sense?
Well you know the public market companies are growing 60% right
versus these companies are going to hundred percent, right?
So you could justify at reeling number being fire.
As a multiple. So we've seen it correct.
But there is this like stickiness in some of these
prices and then there's all this dry powder sitting on the
sidelines, right? And so I don't know how it's
going to flow through and there's these two things that
are kind of at odds or tension with one another right now,
we're one is valuations have gotten hammered in the public
markets, right? To is, we're starting to see the
macro, flow-through of, you know, softening and sales cycles
and Pipeline and all that in the public markets.
Where I have some data that I can talk to on that.
So we're starting to see all that stuff happening, right?
Then the tension on the other side, is all this fucking money,
right? And you have six, eight, ten
billion dollar funds sitting there.
And so I'm not really sure how those two things are going to
play out and how long it's going to take to play out.
And so I think to the things that you reported on today Eric
what I think is bright, I don't want to speak about any of the
portfolio companies that I wish you hadn't preempted funding
news on. But in general, I think what
we're seeing is Is some of these groups that previously were
willing to invest two hundred million dollars at a two billion
dollar valuation right now, they're saying, hey you know
what, let's go put in 20 million dollars at a 200 million dollar
valuation and let's do it in 10 companies, right?
And so you're seeing all these people say, Hey, fuck it.
We don't really care if it's 150 or 200 or 250, or 300, much
better than that 2 billion. We were paying before and so,
while it's crazy on a multiple basis, Right, because it might
be, you know, Infinity time, they might not have Revenue, at
least the low absolute valuation.
Gives you upside that if this grows into a two billion dollar
company, the big like, question that I've had that is hard to
answer. But do you think series a rounds
were actually like were mispriced and the just the
likelihood of getting from series data series?
See was so high that people were giving too much of a discount.
Its series a, I mean, John courteous who's leaving tiger I
You could almost argue his new fund is on that premise.
It's like very like going to be series 8 is series beef, series,
C focused. I think like the idea that like
preference is actually a really valuable thing and like you
don't necessarily lose your money and like an early stage
investment. So there's more downside
protection than is, I don't know.
Do you think there is a chance that series a prices were too
low relative to series C and D? If you look at the run up that
existed from like, let's go back to 2012, Calls to today rate.
Like I think I'm not gonna get this numbers exactly right.
But like series bees went up by 4X and series sees what up by
six acts and series a is went up by two x, right?
And so, like the absolute, the valuation increase of these
things were not linear between the two, right?
They didn't expand at a comparable rate.
Now, why was that the case? Well, series A's?
I think, Founders probably had a little bit more price discipline
and desire to pick board members and you know, not to price.
Mais the myth of a benchmark. Insisting, you keep to price
discipline held harder than the late State.
Yeah. And I think there's more truth
to it at the earlier stage then as you get to the later stages
of these valuations. And so you've seen the
correction, I think when we were sort of pouring through our
data, you know that B's and C's or down in some cases 50, 60, 70
percent, right in different situations.
And I think it might take a while for all that back.
Lee flow through and to see it in a broad-based way versus the
series Azor down 20-30 percent, right?
And they didn't go up the same way that the B's and C's did so
they're not going down the same way.
And so, I guess the question is like, was it mispriced may be
right? I think it requires a lot more
work to invest in a series, a company.
It's not nearly the dollars aren't as scalable because, hey,
you know, it takes about as much time to do a 30 million dollar
check as it does to do five million.
Check in a lot of cases and then to you actually need to work
with these companies in a way of like, helping them hire, and
recruit and all that. I know that well, that's been
the real challenge that this series a investors have to keep
working. And then tiger comes in and is
like, here's a bunch of money, but we're not going to do
anything. Good luck.
And so it's then still the poor series.
A investor that has, like, keep the company together, that's the
smartest thing. A lot of these hedge funds are
doing now, is they're looking at, like, the companies and
saying, not just the validation of, do they have a good
investor? That's already there.
But also do they have a good? Board member who's going to be a
steward for the capital and make sure they don't drive it off the
cliff, right? And so, they're kind of looking
at it being like, well, you know, that person's legit.
And so I'll just trust them, like, they'll be my proxy for
all decisions, right? And then they get to be a little
price insensitive about is it 100 post or 200 posts, right?
Which seems like a really meaningful amount, but if you're
a hedge fund, who's crossing over into privates and you're
ultimately trying to move three, four billion.
There's five billion dollars in the next three or four years
like you don't really care. It's either gonna work or it's
not last question on this. I think there's one view that
like everybody was slow in the first like, what eight months to
a year nine months to a year and then they're like, finally
really come back from vacation. And like you said there, I have
all this dry powder and they're like, fuck it.
We need to do deals this. What people pay me for.
And so, they're doing them, but it's still sort of irrational
because it's going to be more brutal ahead than Hind or this
is sort of the beginning of a comeback story in startup
investing. I mean, do you have a view
either way of whether this is sort of like sort of weird
incentives based on people's jobs or if it's the actual
reflection that the market is going to start to turn around?
Yeah, I mean, I guess I'll take a cop out and say, hey, I think
it's some of both. I will say, there are perverse
incentives that and I had a high level, I believe in the trends
that are going on in blah, blah, blah.
Let me give you all my life. LP speak of what they tax.
Good on it, right? Yeah.
These tectonic shifts that are happening or inevitable and it's
going to create lots of equity value and all that right Bubba.
Yeah, I think one thing we're seeing is there's definitely
Supply. I think it's not a demand
problem that exists like I think there's feces still willing to
be very irrational in their investing and I think there's a
lot of perverse incentives that exist there.
Where people are like hey you know, my job's not the time, the
markets, right? I'm using air quotes, right?
But I like my job is to give Adam Newman like three hundred
million dollars. Yeah, my job is not to assess,
you know, valuation. My job is to assess, you know,
Trends and entrepreneurs, right? And so I'm not going to get too
hung up on the price of all this.
And so I think there's a lot of people that have that philosophy
right now. I think what you're seeing is,
there's a supply problem that so many companies, raise so much
money over the course of the last two years that the great
companies out there like hey, why would I go out there now and
get jerked around potentially on valuation, or have to take it
down round or whatever? Why would I go out and do that?
That when I have capital for the next six years sitting on my
balance sheet. And so I think the reason we're
seeing I don't know how much VCS have actually found religion on
like hey the public markets are impacting the multiples that we
should be willing to pay and therefore what these outcomes
can be versus they're just not getting in the swings at the
plate that they got over the course a lot.
And so I think it's going to take a bunch of the businesses
that actually need Capital to go back out and start fundraising
and they can't just sit on the sidelines to really figure Which
one of those two things is going to play out.
And to be honest, it's going to be both, right?
There's going to be V sees that have found total religion and
understand exactly where multiples are trading and going
to be very disciplined about this stuff.
And there's going to be VC's that say, Hey, you know our jobs
to we raised by billion dollars and so we're invest five billion
dollars. How many deals have you done
personally, this year as a fund, we've done one this entire year.
What I've done? Oh my god.
Wow. Alright boys.
Early stage. Sorry.
Sorry, that's the growth team. Red pointer.
Least age. I don't know.
They've done more. But we've done one this entire
year. It was done in January and we've
done. That's the only one we've done.
Is that an eyesore? Well, 12 months.
Yeah. Acuity MD, it was technically a
series. It was a big series as your life
is just tweeting. Going back to her room.
No wonder. You're like Europe.
I kind of resent. Well, hey, come on.
That's not that's not fair. I podcast and tweet a so, right?
Yeah yeah. Do you help me send you Ilan
like text like what have you done this week?
Yeah, yeah I get that. I get that.
Sometimes I know they wish I It more of their money, just
unscrew Pious lead to the Twitter round.
Just sort of sent money over that.
That's true. I got right?
Let me in on that baby. Yeah.
Only 4 billion or bust? Yeah, so no.
But it's interesting, right? I mean it is the last 12 months
I think as a fund we're probably at the point that we've only
done one. That's the only deal we've done
even in the last 12 months, let alone this calendar year right
now. We're still looking at a bunch
of stuff and we're still chasing things around but it's really
that supply problem. And then a little bit of this
Market disk location pricing thing that were I don't know,
We've been a little more attuned to, or at least a little more
focused on than others have. Hmm.
Well, we ended and quite a height in place.
I feel like in this conversation after the beginning.
Yeah, I do think a real, you shitpost.
The real you is, is the the one with the financials.
I'm sorry to say, well, I mean, and that's why it's so
incongruous that I have all these writers writing, all this
stuff to me and then and then I like go down this Rabbit Hole of
like multiples and Sass and financials and all that.
And they're like, what the fuck? Like, can you make a joke,
right? Well, but Ability to, you know,
have facility with these financials makes the monies that
you can employ the writers that keep your Twitter account
cracked. Yeah, I know it's a sort of
circular flywheel. It's really capitalism and its
purest form right there. So right.
Yeah. Just trickle it down
actualization. Yeah, yeah, it, but it all works
together. Well, I'm glad we entered in
this place Logan and we should plug your podcast.
Yeah. So this is much more in depth
into all this stuff. It's nice to be a guest rather
than a host. So I appreciate you guys.
Yeah, you guys driving this Italy?
Is it? You're like I have thoughts to,
you know, I have expert. Yeah.
Ask other people what they think?
Yeah. Yeah.
I have two on my podcast. I ask that a non sequiturs that
just like double back to my own opinion.
It's like much more. You know, we're you guys ask, it
doesn't feel like you're projecting here.
Logan. Is there something that you want
to be talking about? Yeah, a lot of that on the show.
Yeah, so I do I've cartoon avatars.
You do it once a week and yeah, it the format changes.
We have people on, it's not dissimilar.
You guys in some ways. You guys brought down, web,
three basically, right? I mean, you just Right.
You said there was nothing there and yeah correct.
Yeah, which is another funny thing because we have people in
our team at Red point that invest in weatherbury and people
are like, wait, isn't that guy like the - web three guy,
doesn't? That doesn't mean work with you,
right? See, but this gets back to like
the idea between like contents and actual business.
You're like, if to understand anti web, three stuff does
really well right now. Exactly, exactly play that
market gives. That's right.
I actually just when people, whatever people say, aren't you.
The web three guy just show the spikes and listener.
Bishop and ever and I'm like, yes, no, I'm the market guy.
That's what I mean. Yeah.
Are you guys going to have Sam lesson back on to redeem
himself? Is that, you know, I like it,
right? Like it was.
Yeah. It was hard to listen to, I
mean, yeah, I know, I know likes him.
I like his tweets but he came off terribly and he also can
just be so petty, like, on some of the I listened, he wanted to
do it. Exactly like, hey, this is
terrible. You know, I really I was
embarrassed because, like, I, you know, Sensibly, I'm supposed
to be the moderator of that and I I was just sort of sitting
back like arms crossed laughing the whole time and I kind of
forgot what my role in doing something like that.
Was you see? I'm just kept interrupting like
he, like I mean Zack is very good.
Is he like a what's his status with the show?
Is he a co-host? Or is he just sort of a he won't
be called a co-host. The guy does a million things.
It's actually pretty impressive, how busy he is and so trying to
pin him down regularly as a pain in the ass, but he know think he
comes on regularly, At this point and I can get them
probably every other episode. So I get something quasi
co-host. Yeah, we have a co-host who
drops off in the middle of episodes to take calls about the
justice department. So we can empathize.
Everyone can relate right here, we are.
We're on that content grind, and other people are like, trying to
do their job. Everyone's like, now you hear
why? I have the time to do this.
It's a penguin. So it you dumb one deal in the
last year. I'm like, yeah, that's right.
That's a yeah. Now, you know why I'm the And
with the schedule available for Zach and not the other way
around. All right.
Well anyway we I look forward to.
It's the same lesson Zak part 2. It's like the Gore Vidal Norman
mailer fight of our time. So no honestly I think the best
analogy is the first Trump Biden debate where I was I was the
moderator to sort of who was that, was that Chris Wallace?
Who was it? That got steamrolled.
That wasn't very good. Yeah, I think so.
I'm glad I remember more the Hillary, the more Hillary by
debates. They like I'm not the puppet,
you're the puppet. That's basically where that one
ended up but I'll listen. And either way cool thanks guys
this is fun alright thanks a bunch.
Thanks Logan. Goodbye.
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.
Goodbye. Goodbye.
Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye.
Goodbye.