1
00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:13,400
Welcome. 
Hey, everybody. 

2
00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:15,300
Welcome to Dead cat. 
It's Tom. 

3
00:00:15,300 --> 00:00:18,300
I'm here with Katie and Eric, 
the whole family is back here 

4
00:00:18,300 --> 00:00:21,300
together for Thanksgiving. 
So exciting. 

5
00:00:21,300 --> 00:00:24,500
I feel like Katie like shows up,
you know, like MTV's Daria and 

6
00:00:24,500 --> 00:00:28,000
Eric's like arguing with like 
various cousins over like who 

7
00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:32,000
can beat who in chess. 
I have a chessboard laid out on 

8
00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:34,800
my carpet right now with a book.
Yeah. 

9
00:00:34,800 --> 00:00:37,000
It's like it's like the people 
who only go to church on 

10
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:38,000
holidays. 
That's me. 

11
00:00:38,000 --> 00:00:39,600
I'm just showing up for the 
podcast on. 

12
00:00:40,400 --> 00:00:42,600
Yeah, yeah. 
And I'm, I don't know, starting 

13
00:00:42,600 --> 00:00:45,100
various contrarian arguments 
with different people at the 

14
00:00:45,100 --> 00:00:49,300
table, all at once, but we've 
got an exciting episode today. 

15
00:00:49,300 --> 00:00:51,100
So many scandals happening in 
Tech. 

16
00:00:51,100 --> 00:00:54,700
So many things go unpack. 
So many people to blame and try 

17
00:00:54,700 --> 00:00:57,500
to understand. 
But basically, as I see, we have

18
00:00:57,500 --> 00:01:01,300
two giant stories. 
Right now in one, we've got This

19
00:01:01,300 --> 00:01:06,900
cascading series of scandals in 
a sector that is Rife with scams

20
00:01:07,100 --> 00:01:09,100
begging, for regulatory 
involvement and maybe even 

21
00:01:09,100 --> 00:01:11,800
criminal involvement and the 
other is ft x. 

22
00:01:13,100 --> 00:01:16,400
So tiny, you're going to set it 
up that way. 

23
00:01:16,400 --> 00:01:18,800
Yeah, so the first thing we've 
got here. 

24
00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:22,200
What are things going good? 
Yeah, so what the fuck is going 

25
00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,700
on with Taylor? 
Swift concert? 

26
00:01:26,100 --> 00:01:28,400
Well, just got an alert for New 
York Times that the doj is 

27
00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:30,900
investigating Ticketmaster, and 
Live Nation. 

28
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,000
This is something I don't really
understand. 

29
00:01:33,000 --> 00:01:36,000
I I actually listen to the new 
album because I knew that Eric 

30
00:01:36,000 --> 00:01:38,600
wood and so I wanted what I 
wanted to have that experience 

31
00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:39,400
with him. 
Yeah. 

32
00:01:40,000 --> 00:01:43,800
What percentage of your 
Millennial cultural effect items

33
00:01:43,800 --> 00:01:47,300
are just like studying but 
anyway, yeah, I know Eric looks 

34
00:01:47,300 --> 00:01:51,100
G like the millennial cultural, 
you know, immersion program for 

35
00:01:51,100 --> 00:01:53,100
Katie without Eric. 
I'd still be listening to Lou 

36
00:01:53,100 --> 00:01:54,900
Reed. 
Eric you probably were trying to

37
00:01:54,900 --> 00:01:56,900
buy tickets, right? 
So you've had oh my God, my 

38
00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:00,000
stance is like devastated. 
I mean we both were working 

39
00:02:00,000 --> 00:02:02,400
really. 
Hard to try to get tickets and 

40
00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:06,700
like, yeah, I mean it's sour 
Enos lately on Taylor Swift, 

41
00:02:06,700 --> 00:02:10,400
though she put out something on 
her Instagram today. 

42
00:02:10,400 --> 00:02:14,400
I mean, it's it's pretty brutal.
I mean it's this solution to. 

43
00:02:14,400 --> 00:02:16,700
It isn't clear. 
I'm much more in the, you know, 

44
00:02:17,000 --> 00:02:19,600
free marketer. 
Like oh, let these things be 

45
00:02:19,600 --> 00:02:22,300
sold in the secondary for like a
10,000, Mark. 

46
00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:24,100
Oh, no. 
Don't don't create this 

47
00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:27,700
situation where they're so cheap
on the, you know, from the 

48
00:02:27,700 --> 00:02:30,100
primary seller that they're all 
these people. 

49
00:02:30,200 --> 00:02:32,000
Are basically incentivized to 
flip them. 

50
00:02:32,100 --> 00:02:35,200
I mean I think it should just be
a pool of ones that are 

51
00:02:35,200 --> 00:02:37,700
dedicated to fans and they need 
to do a much better job of 

52
00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:40,700
making sure those get to fans 
and then a pool of tickets that 

53
00:02:40,700 --> 00:02:44,300
are truly happy to Mark himself 
and isn't that whole issue, 

54
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:47,600
right? 
Right right. 

55
00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,400
That's why I'm like when you say
fans, you mean humans? 

56
00:02:50,500 --> 00:02:50,900
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

57
00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:53,300
They should hook it up to like 
Spotify. 

58
00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:57,200
They should be like, how many 
fucking Taylor records have you 

59
00:02:57,200 --> 00:02:59,400
bought, you know? 
Like, I mean, they should and 

60
00:02:59,400 --> 00:03:01,600
they should only make People 
should only be able to get like 

61
00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,000
one, you know, one, you know, 
one for each person. 

62
00:03:05,000 --> 00:03:08,200
So I think they just need to do 
a much better job of, you know, 

63
00:03:08,200 --> 00:03:12,000
human identification. 
Here are some sort of a quiz. 

64
00:03:12,000 --> 00:03:14,600
Like in the way they do like a 
captcha to understand dryer, you

65
00:03:14,600 --> 00:03:16,400
may also feel like a fan 
captcha. 

66
00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:20,500
Be like you know like which of 
these lines did not appear in 

67
00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:24,700
ever more those or some songs is
about which boyfriend. 

68
00:03:24,700 --> 00:03:25,800
Well, that's good. 
Right. 

69
00:03:25,800 --> 00:03:28,200
Oh my God. 
Yes, Harry Styles. 

70
00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:30,000
Yeah. 
Match the line. 

71
00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:32,900
To the boyfriend who fuck the 
patriarchy is. 

72
00:03:33,200 --> 00:03:38,100
You know, you know, five 
paragraph essay on why Jake 

73
00:03:38,100 --> 00:03:44,900
Gyllenhaal's like the worst of 
these are great ideas. 

74
00:03:44,900 --> 00:03:47,800
I would say much more effective 
than like doj involvement. 

75
00:03:47,800 --> 00:03:49,900
I think we can stop. 
We we already solved it right 

76
00:03:49,900 --> 00:03:52,200
here. 
If the answers Tom Hiddleston, 

77
00:03:52,200 --> 00:03:54,800
you know, it's not a real 
person, right? 

78
00:03:54,800 --> 00:03:58,000
We had like Taylor Lautner 
boyfriend or not boyfriend was 

79
00:03:58,000 --> 00:04:02,100
people I think I think boy, By 
the way, I think boyfriend. 

80
00:04:02,100 --> 00:04:03,300
Yeah, thanks. 
Twilight era. 

81
00:04:03,400 --> 00:04:07,000
Okay. 
I was I was getting a coffee 

82
00:04:07,000 --> 00:04:10,800
with somebody who knows, Josh 
Kushner, and it took everything 

83
00:04:10,800 --> 00:04:14,200
in my being not to be like, do 
you think Karlie Kloss did date 

84
00:04:14,200 --> 00:04:18,100
Taylor Swift? 
You're aware of daylor Swift. 

85
00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:21,000
This is actually something I've 
been supposed to ask you even 

86
00:04:21,000 --> 00:04:24,200
I'm aware. 
I wasn't until roses like 

87
00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:27,100
co-workers who is gay and was 
explaining at length. 

88
00:04:27,100 --> 00:04:30,000
The Gaylor Swift conspiracy. 
Have you listen to the question?

89
00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:33,200
Like I do think she probably 
dated Karlie Kloss. 

90
00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:35,900
Like I think that's more likely 
than but did she date Lena 

91
00:04:35,900 --> 00:04:38,300
Dunham. 
I'm scared when they're 

92
00:04:38,300 --> 00:04:40,600
photographed kissing each other?
You know what I mean? 

93
00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:41,400
Like that means. 
No. 

94
00:04:41,400 --> 00:04:46,600
I mean yeah you heard of it was 
the squad Donna and but I think 

95
00:04:46,600 --> 00:04:51,000
that whether or not it happened,
the way that it has fueled fan 

96
00:04:51,000 --> 00:04:54,600
speculation and I think, can we 
draw a direct line between 

97
00:04:54,900 --> 00:04:57,200
something the question. 
The open question of whether or 

98
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:00,000
not Taylor Swift dated Karlie 
Kloss to this insane. 

99
00:05:00,200 --> 00:05:02,500
In collapse of the Ticketmaster 
Ticket system. 

100
00:05:02,500 --> 00:05:06,500
Maybe, I mean, it's that kind of
intrigued that fuels this kind 

101
00:05:06,500 --> 00:05:08,600
of fan base, right? 
You mean, do row her? 

102
00:05:08,600 --> 00:05:10,700
Just being able to like play her
fans. 

103
00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:14,100
Like a fucking violin. 
Absolutely absolute build up 

104
00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:16,300
even more intrigued. 
So like, oh, maybe she'll have 

105
00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:18,800
is a special guest like one of 
her Gaylor Swift. 

106
00:05:19,000 --> 00:05:21,600
You know, conspirators. 
That would be amazing. 

107
00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,200
Yeah. 
Well the thing is I mean, I have

108
00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,800
no emotional attachment to her 
as an artist or as a human being

109
00:05:28,000 --> 00:05:29,500
but I don't think she does 
either really. 

110
00:05:29,500 --> 00:05:32,300
She seems like A purely 
capitalistic marketing product 

111
00:05:32,300 --> 00:05:33,500
to answer. 
Yes, no. 

112
00:05:33,500 --> 00:05:35,500
She's connected to her fans. 
What are you talking? 

113
00:05:35,500 --> 00:05:37,100
Well, in a way, that it 
benefits, or I'm not even saying

114
00:05:37,100 --> 00:05:39,500
this is a criticism. 
She is like a pure distillation 

115
00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:43,100
of like late capitalism, you 
know, in like the marketing of 

116
00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:44,800
a, you know, very talented 
artist. 

117
00:05:44,900 --> 00:05:47,900
Bailey, I mean, the Pinnacle of 
that just to give you a little 

118
00:05:48,100 --> 00:05:51,800
data is that, you know, like, 
she somehow got her fans, invest

119
00:05:51,800 --> 00:05:55,300
in her re-recording the album's 
just so she could make money or 

120
00:05:55,300 --> 00:05:57,700
Masters and not so well because 
he understood that she was a 

121
00:05:57,700 --> 00:06:01,300
victim of Scooter, Braun. 
And so we have We were forced, 

122
00:06:01,300 --> 00:06:05,200
we were forced to band together 
to fight life's all about 

123
00:06:05,200 --> 00:06:06,800
cheering for your favorite rich 
person. 

124
00:06:06,800 --> 00:06:10,300
I mean that's exactly it wasn't 
exactly to the conversation of. 

125
00:06:10,300 --> 00:06:11,500
Yeah. 
It wasn't like, oh, we're gonna 

126
00:06:11,500 --> 00:06:13,800
get great new music from Taylor.
It's like we're gonna get the 

127
00:06:13,800 --> 00:06:16,000
same old music that's going to 
make you richer. 

128
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:18,100
Exactly. 
And that's my investments. 

129
00:06:18,100 --> 00:06:20,200
Are we need her to be our 
billionaire? 

130
00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,700
You know, in a world where 
that's all the matters, you 

131
00:06:22,700 --> 00:06:24,400
know. 
Well, we're down one musician. 

132
00:06:24,400 --> 00:06:28,800
Billionaire with, with ye so I 
feel like Taylor should more 

133
00:06:28,800 --> 00:06:30,600
effectively fill that spot. 
But yeah. 

134
00:06:30,600 --> 00:06:33,500
You know who would have thought 
that the Kanye Taylor fight 

135
00:06:33,500 --> 00:06:37,000
would have ended here. 
Oh, I assume she's like, that 

136
00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,900
was what rocket fueled her into 
becoming even more successful in

137
00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:42,200
the same way that like Donald 
Trump ran for president, because

138
00:06:42,200 --> 00:06:44,900
Obama made fun of him. 
And that one White House 

139
00:06:44,900 --> 00:06:47,300
Correspondents Dinner. 
I assume Taylor was like, I'm 

140
00:06:47,300 --> 00:06:49,900
going to dominate the music 
industry because I was 

141
00:06:49,900 --> 00:06:52,900
embarrassed once at an award 
show, by a drunk Kanye. 

142
00:06:53,200 --> 00:06:55,300
I mean, they're worse, reasons? 
Sure. 

143
00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:58,200
All right, so here's what we got
on today's episode. 

144
00:06:58,300 --> 00:07:02,500
It's time that we do a Recapping
of where things are with FTX. 

145
00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:05,300
And I've spent a lot of time in 
the last week reading. 

146
00:07:05,300 --> 00:07:10,500
All the stories I even read the 
entire milky eggs, post what 

147
00:07:10,700 --> 00:07:13,300
you're talking about? 
No, there's some blog called 

148
00:07:13,300 --> 00:07:17,200
milky eggs in which there's like
a 10,000 word unwinding and 

149
00:07:17,200 --> 00:07:19,500
speculation on where all the 
money went over. 

150
00:07:19,500 --> 00:07:22,000
These like things will probably 
not be relevant the you guys 

151
00:07:22,000 --> 00:07:24,200
didn't see that. 
Anyway yeah, all these things 

152
00:07:24,200 --> 00:07:26,700
will probably be irrelevant 
once, you know the full order 

153
00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:30,000
of, you know, the internal 
mechanisms or put forward in the

154
00:07:30,100 --> 00:07:31,400
The courts. 
But for the time, you know, 

155
00:07:31,400 --> 00:07:32,800
there's been a lot of 
speculation. 

156
00:07:32,800 --> 00:07:35,200
Anyway, I read all of that. 
Yeah, it'll be good for you to 

157
00:07:35,200 --> 00:07:37,300
explain because I mean, 
obviously, we joke on this 

158
00:07:37,300 --> 00:07:39,700
podcast sometimes about not 
bringing people along, but I 

159
00:07:39,700 --> 00:07:45,000
think even sort of the most 
hardcore sort of tech readers 

160
00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,200
Among Us would benefit from a 
little bit of a, sort of 

161
00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:51,900
summation, of, of the Scandal. 
So follow, this is the nation. 

162
00:07:51,900 --> 00:07:54,900
This beautiful stay one, but no,
okay. 

163
00:07:54,900 --> 00:07:58,300
Well, basically where we are 
right now, is that the FTX 

164
00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:02,300
unwinding since, you know, the 
Finance selling of the ftt 

165
00:08:02,300 --> 00:08:06,700
tokens revealed that FTX was 
highly over leveraged, its main 

166
00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,800
token collapsed and value. 
There is a huge run on the FTX 

167
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,000
Bank, essentially by all of its 
depositors. 

168
00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,000
And that revealed that the 
company had basically and Sam 

169
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:20,400
bakeman freed had taken all of 
the assets that were in there 

170
00:08:20,400 --> 00:08:23,800
and tried to cover up. 
All the losses, that his related

171
00:08:23,800 --> 00:08:27,900
hedge fund Alameda, had been 
using to cover all of their 

172
00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:29,900
losses because they had been 
taking incredibly risky. 

173
00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:32,600
A bets, not just to cover their 
losses but to trade, to fund the

174
00:08:32,600 --> 00:08:34,000
entire trading arm. 
Yeah. 

175
00:08:34,000 --> 00:08:36,100
Because they had so many losses,
right? 

176
00:08:36,100 --> 00:08:39,900
I mean, I assumed they were only
dipping into the FTX piggy bank 

177
00:08:39,900 --> 00:08:42,900
because they were down so much 
in all of their investment. 

178
00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:44,300
That was something it was 
unclear to me. 

179
00:08:44,300 --> 00:08:46,500
Whether it was something they 
did out of desperation or just 

180
00:08:46,500 --> 00:08:49,100
something that they did to feel 
that to feel the trading 

181
00:08:49,100 --> 00:08:52,100
platform and success of it. 
Well, I think Matt Levine made 

182
00:08:52,100 --> 00:08:54,600
this point. 
But like, what's funny looking 

183
00:08:54,600 --> 00:09:00,500
back on this is that I think 
while Sam SBF was sort of In his

184
00:09:00,500 --> 00:09:02,600
prime and like everybody 
worshipped him. 

185
00:09:02,800 --> 00:09:06,400
The Assumption was that he was 
sort of improperly using 

186
00:09:06,500 --> 00:09:11,700
information from FTX to become a
really good Trader at Alameda 

187
00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:14,600
and that's why he was so rich. 
Like, he had this sort of inside

188
00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:17,900
information but in fact, he was 
just using customer accounts 

189
00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,200
from ft x and he wasn't like a 
great trainer at all, and he was

190
00:09:21,200 --> 00:09:25,300
just siphoning all the money to 
blow it on Alameda on failed 

191
00:09:25,300 --> 00:09:27,900
trading strategies. 
It's the very fine line between 

192
00:09:27,900 --> 00:09:31,900
like a high-frequency Trader and
A Ponzi scheme, right? 

193
00:09:32,300 --> 00:09:35,500
Right, right. 
So that's you know, a very quick

194
00:09:35,500 --> 00:09:39,700
and dirty explanation of why FTX
Unwound and then what happened 

195
00:09:39,700 --> 00:09:42,900
since then is they broaden a, 
what's the term? 

196
00:09:42,900 --> 00:09:47,100
I mean, like an interim. 
CEO, a ward, a cleanup guy. 

197
00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,300
A cleanup guy in a cleanup guy. 
Yeah. 

198
00:09:49,300 --> 00:09:51,600
They brought in like the adults 
in the room who basically, you 

199
00:09:51,600 --> 00:09:54,200
can imagine the picture here. 
You know, they fly in the sky 

200
00:09:54,200 --> 00:09:56,700
into the Bahamas. 
I imagine he's like walking up 

201
00:09:56,700 --> 00:09:59,300
into like the F16 and of like 
the Pelican Brief. 

202
00:09:59,700 --> 00:10:00,500
Yeah. 
Exactly. 

203
00:10:00,500 --> 00:10:03,200
He walks into the office. 
He like takes out his briefcase.

204
00:10:03,500 --> 00:10:05,400
He tells his right-hand man like
schmidty. 

205
00:10:05,600 --> 00:10:07,700
You know how this goes? 
I need two gallons of coffee. 

206
00:10:08,500 --> 00:10:12,200
I need, I need protein, I need 
carbs, every 45 minutes. 

207
00:10:12,600 --> 00:10:15,800
Let's dig into this thing, and 
then he liked it and goes, holy 

208
00:10:15,800 --> 00:10:17,300
shit. 
Yeah, he opens up the file. 

209
00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:18,900
Not like a zombie. 
He throws up. 

210
00:10:19,200 --> 00:10:20,900
I mean this guy dealt with 
Enron. 

211
00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:23,800
This guy always the cleanup 
great for Enron. 

212
00:10:23,900 --> 00:10:25,000
Yeah. 
And then Tom do you have in 

213
00:10:25,000 --> 00:10:26,900
front of you, eat like a 
statement? 

214
00:10:26,900 --> 00:10:29,500
Well, it's out of savings in the
chapter 11 bankruptcy filing 

215
00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:31,200
which these Things. 
I don't know, Katie. 

216
00:10:31,200 --> 00:10:33,000
If you've read these before, 
when you were covering the 08 

217
00:10:33,000 --> 00:10:35,400
collapse, but these are pretty 
dry documents typically. 

218
00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:38,800
Yes, very lawyer. 
The, there's no color in a 

219
00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:43,100
chapter 11, filing, there's no 
killer quotes that come out of 

220
00:10:43,100 --> 00:10:45,700
it, but this was one of the 
lines is pointing directly from 

221
00:10:45,700 --> 00:10:47,500
the chapter 11 filing in 
Delaware. 

222
00:10:47,500 --> 00:10:49,900
Once again, Delaware is one of 
the most interesting states 

223
00:10:50,400 --> 00:10:54,700
because of a scandal, I have 
over 40 years of legal and 

224
00:10:54,700 --> 00:10:57,400
restructuring experience, I have
been the chief restructuring 

225
00:10:57,400 --> 00:11:00,400
officer or chief executive 
officer and several of Largest 

226
00:11:00,400 --> 00:11:03,500
corporate failures in history. 
I have supervised situations 

227
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:05,600
involving allegations of 
criminal, activity, and 

228
00:11:05,600 --> 00:11:07,800
malfeasance in parentheses N, 
Run. 

229
00:11:08,400 --> 00:11:10,600
I have supervised situations 
involving novel. 

230
00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:12,700
Financial structure is 
parentheses Enron and 

231
00:11:12,700 --> 00:11:15,700
residential capital and 
cross-border acid recovery, and 

232
00:11:15,700 --> 00:11:18,700
maximization, Nortel and 
overseas ship holding. 

233
00:11:18,700 --> 00:11:20,200
I don't know those, but they 
were bad too. 

234
00:11:21,000 --> 00:11:23,400
Really every situation in which 
I have been involved. 

235
00:11:23,400 --> 00:11:25,800
Has been characterized by 
defects of some sort and 

236
00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:29,700
internal controls Regulatory 
Compliance, human resources and 

237
00:11:29,700 --> 00:11:30,800
systems. 
Items Integrity. 

238
00:11:31,500 --> 00:11:34,100
Next paragraph, never in my 
career. 

239
00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:37,000
Have I seen such a complete 
failure of corporate controls 

240
00:11:37,000 --> 00:11:39,300
and such a complete absence of 
trustworthy, financial 

241
00:11:39,300 --> 00:11:42,300
information as occurred here, 
from compromised systems 

242
00:11:42,300 --> 00:11:45,400
integrity, and faulty regulatory
oversight abroad to the 

243
00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:48,200
concentration of control in the 
hands of a very small group of 

244
00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:52,000
inexperience, unsophisticated, 
and potentially compromised 

245
00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,200
individuals. 
This situation is unprecedented,

246
00:11:55,300 --> 00:11:57,900
he doesn't say they're all 
fucking each other or like, 

247
00:11:58,100 --> 00:11:59,700
well, you know, that wasn't in 
the books. 

248
00:12:02,700 --> 00:12:04,500
Vlog that now. 
Yeah. 

249
00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:07,000
He's like also, they were kind 
of was no HR department, right? 

250
00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:09,600
Yeah. 
Like also these beanbags smell 

251
00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:14,000
but I'm not going to guess what?
Yeah, this is basically like the

252
00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,500
cleanup specialist like the 
garbageman comes in there and 

253
00:12:16,500 --> 00:12:18,300
it's like, what the fuck is that
smell? 

254
00:12:19,200 --> 00:12:22,000
And I mean, as I read through 
the bankruptcy filing, which I 

255
00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,000
actually did read through most 
of it because it is pretty great

256
00:12:24,000 --> 00:12:26,300
reading. 
One of the biggest takeaways 

257
00:12:26,300 --> 00:12:29,200
from it and I think maybe the 
most shocking that I saw a lot 

258
00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,000
of, you know, analyst Reporters 
pick up on. 

259
00:12:31,300 --> 00:12:34,400
It doesn't seem like they have 
any idea where the money went 

260
00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:37,000
and more. 
So they don't even know how much

261
00:12:37,000 --> 00:12:39,800
money they had. 
They have no records of the 

262
00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:42,800
liabilities in there. 
So when it gets to a point, 

263
00:12:42,800 --> 00:12:46,000
where the people who had their 
money stored in FTX will 

264
00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,000
reasonably ask, hey, where did 
my money go? 

265
00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:51,000
There doesn't seem to be any 
accounting for that. 

266
00:12:51,600 --> 00:12:55,800
No, so this is always gonna 
like, yes, just imagine being 

267
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,100
the type of person they can just
be out and about with the 

268
00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:03,400
knowledge that This is all gonna
come crashing down someday. 

269
00:13:03,400 --> 00:13:06,400
Like I there. 
I mean, maybe I don't want to 

270
00:13:06,400 --> 00:13:10,900
jump ahead, but like I've seen 
speculation we all made of 5, 

271
00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:14,300
right? 
This is where I think that that 

272
00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:18,100
sort of like Bernie Madoff, feel
really takes hold. 

273
00:13:18,300 --> 00:13:19,700
No one has any idea. 
What's going on? 

274
00:13:19,700 --> 00:13:22,800
Nobody knows where the money is.
It's really just all been a hope

275
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:28,100
and a prayer and like kind of 
preying on people who have who 

276
00:13:28,100 --> 00:13:30,900
are other crypto Believers. 
There's just It's a lot. 

277
00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,700
We don't slay, star codex, 
Scott, Alexander. 

278
00:13:33,900 --> 00:13:38,100
Yeah, yeah, he had a piece 
basically like analyzing the 

279
00:13:38,100 --> 00:13:43,000
medicine, the drugs that SPF is 
taking and just sort of 

280
00:13:43,000 --> 00:13:46,700
wondering whether perhaps like a
side effect of these drugs was 

281
00:13:46,700 --> 00:13:50,400
like a gambling Iraq. 
These it is it's a new argument 

282
00:13:50,400 --> 00:13:53,100
against Adderall. 
Is that like it's not Adderall? 

283
00:13:53,100 --> 00:13:54,000
It's some weird. 
You know. 

284
00:13:54,000 --> 00:13:56,100
I thought that was it. 
It was not even that we do. 

285
00:13:56,100 --> 00:13:59,400
It's like some rule is some 
patch, we can look it up well 

286
00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:00,900
because he failed. 
Miss Lee s BF. 

287
00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:03,800
This is was famously only 
sleeping like four hours a night

288
00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:08,500
because when he was not the 
psychopharmacology of the FTX 

289
00:14:08,500 --> 00:14:10,300
crash. 
Yeah, yeah. 

290
00:14:10,300 --> 00:14:13,100
So there was just all kinda know
is that he was designer 

291
00:14:13,100 --> 00:14:17,900
laterals, it's called Sela 
Jolene, em Sam. 

292
00:14:18,300 --> 00:14:22,400
I mean I'm I don't take any 
stimulants, I people have come 

293
00:14:22,400 --> 00:14:25,300
up to me, people come up to me 
and they're like, oh yeah, I 

294
00:14:25,300 --> 00:14:29,300
just I take, you know, the way 
to do a cross-country flight is 

295
00:14:29,300 --> 00:14:32,400
like taking An Ambien and then 
take an Adderall and their side.

296
00:14:32,400 --> 00:14:34,400
I'm like I'm not living that 
life. 

297
00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:39,100
I'm not, I'm not living that 
gambian lifestyle. 

298
00:15:00,000 --> 00:15:01,500
It's about you. 
Even if you might be like 

299
00:15:01,500 --> 00:15:04,800
marginally happier, like, I 
don't want like, I don't know, 

300
00:15:04,900 --> 00:15:07,600
well my few times taking 
Adderall, my experience at 

301
00:15:07,600 --> 00:15:10,200
typically been that I just felt 
like my brain was functioning 

302
00:15:10,200 --> 00:15:11,900
differently. 
Like I wasn't thinking in the 

303
00:15:11,900 --> 00:15:13,900
same way. 
I was definitely awake friendly.

304
00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,500
Yeah, but it's like my thought 
processes were not like the 

305
00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:19,900
train wasn't going down the 
track in the way that I was 

306
00:15:20,200 --> 00:15:23,500
comfortable with. 
And I was definitely alert and 

307
00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,700
very awake, there was no denying
that but I never really thought 

308
00:15:26,700 --> 00:15:29,800
like boy, if I had access to 
like a trading terminal, I could

309
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:33,400
the billions right now. 
Write what, you know, I already 

310
00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,300
think every idea that I have is 
like gold. 

311
00:15:36,300 --> 00:15:39,800
So imagine on cocaine, you know,
just sort of like the right. 

312
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:44,400
That's like, let's just pull it 
through and let's go like me. 

313
00:15:44,400 --> 00:15:46,600
I have a lot to have a lot to 
say right now. 

314
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,400
Like we could barely keep you on
track during the podcast. 

315
00:15:49,800 --> 00:15:53,600
Be taking notes on this. 
It's like that Billy crudup from

316
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:55,900
America from almost famous 
scene, where he screams, I'm a 

317
00:15:55,908 --> 00:15:59,100
golden god, that's Eric, just 
unkind. 

318
00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:00,900
That's just Generally. 
Yeah. 

319
00:16:01,300 --> 00:16:03,600
That's before the Ambien. 
Exactly. 

320
00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,200
I that's just me on a scoop like
get a scoop. 

321
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:09,600
I'm like all right just yeah. 
It what were most reporters are 

322
00:16:09,600 --> 00:16:12,900
like you know scoop coming 
Eric's is like I'm a golden god.

323
00:16:15,900 --> 00:16:19,200
Anyway, so yeah, he's not 
sleeping. 

324
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:22,900
Yeah, it's not sleeping when he 
feels guilty clearly but 

325
00:16:22,900 --> 00:16:24,800
continue. 
Well, I want to get to that in a

326
00:16:24,808 --> 00:16:27,500
second, but yes, what. 
So when he's not sleeping he's, 

327
00:16:27,500 --> 00:16:30,500
you know, he's on the he's on 
the grind and apparently he's 

328
00:16:30,500 --> 00:16:33,400
really shitty at League of 
Legends which is my favorite of 

329
00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:36,000
all the twists and all of this. 
Because there is this kind of 

330
00:16:36,000 --> 00:16:38,600
like ongoing theme that he was 
like playing League of Legends 

331
00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,000
in the background while speaking
to reporters and his investors 

332
00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,200
and shit like that. 
And then you know I think it was

333
00:16:44,200 --> 00:16:46,400
the Ft or something. 
Has revealed that his ranking on

334
00:16:46,400 --> 00:16:48,600
League of Legends is actually 
extremely mediocre. 

335
00:16:48,800 --> 00:16:50,600
He's a bronze something or 
other. 

336
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,500
Yeah yeah. 
So this like the fraud goes 

337
00:16:53,500 --> 00:16:58,700
incredibly deep with this guy's 
but apparently he had taken out 

338
00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:02,600
a 1 billion dollar loan on some 
of the assets here. 

339
00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,400
It's not really clear where he 
spent the money on, although FTX

340
00:17:05,400 --> 00:17:08,500
had bought houses for some of 
the people at the company. 

341
00:17:08,900 --> 00:17:11,700
But what's clearly going to be 
happening over the next couple 

342
00:17:11,700 --> 00:17:14,099
weeks is trying to answer the 
question of like, where the 

343
00:17:14,099 --> 00:17:16,900
money went Oh, that's also 
interesting because in that 

344
00:17:16,900 --> 00:17:20,099
report that you referred to, 
there's also indications that he

345
00:17:20,099 --> 00:17:22,900
was taking the money even as he 
knew, his firm is collapsing and

346
00:17:22,900 --> 00:17:27,500
safing it out through different 
entities in the Bahamas. 

347
00:17:27,500 --> 00:17:31,300
So nobody knows if he was taking
things on his way, out the door 

348
00:17:31,300 --> 00:17:32,700
either. 
Yeah, right. 

349
00:17:32,700 --> 00:17:35,400
I do think people, I mean, I 
think we're going to get into 

350
00:17:35,900 --> 00:17:40,300
the interview with Vox, but 
there is a little bit of It's 

351
00:17:40,300 --> 00:17:44,300
like, he probably took the 
money, you know, he's like he's 

352
00:17:44,300 --> 00:17:48,200
not admitting special people, 
even though this guy is like 

353
00:17:48,200 --> 00:17:51,800
clearly lied every, which way 
there's still sort of a desire 

354
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,300
to assume, he's telling the 
truth in any given interview. 

355
00:17:55,300 --> 00:17:58,700
Even though it's like at this 
point, how can you trust a word?

356
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:02,900
This guy says, right? 
And so at this point, aside from

357
00:18:02,900 --> 00:18:06,100
these apparent, tweet threads, 
that he's been putting together 

358
00:18:06,100 --> 00:18:09,000
in which the first one was, just
the spelling out of the word. 

359
00:18:09,000 --> 00:18:13,200
What? 
And right, and then followed by 

360
00:18:13,200 --> 00:18:16,900
some sort of a thread that maybe
tried to give some explanation 

361
00:18:16,900 --> 00:18:20,500
as to what went down. 
He first gives an interview to 

362
00:18:20,500 --> 00:18:24,300
the New York Times, David yaffe,
Bella knee, who's like the 

363
00:18:24,300 --> 00:18:26,000
crypto reporter over at the 
Times. 

364
00:18:26,800 --> 00:18:30,500
David got a lot of shit for this
story because people felt that 

365
00:18:31,000 --> 00:18:32,400
they were not pressing him hard 
enough. 

366
00:18:32,400 --> 00:18:35,300
And there was kind of a quote in
there, in which they were like, 

367
00:18:35,300 --> 00:18:38,400
how are you sleeping? 
Well, these days I don't know 

368
00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:40,800
how you guys feel about that 
story gets Katie, you know, you 

369
00:18:40,800 --> 00:18:42,900
know, David so you know, I do 
want to put you too much on the 

370
00:18:42,908 --> 00:18:45,600
spot here, but I thought the 
story was fine. 

371
00:18:45,600 --> 00:18:48,400
I thought he came off like a 
psychopath with was my 

372
00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:50,800
interpretation of it. 
It's like I don't know how much 

373
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,000
more the fraud and malfeasance 
is so evident here. 

374
00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:55,800
I don't know how much 
browbeating right. 

375
00:18:55,800 --> 00:18:59,300
Like journals begins to do like 
a certain type of person who is 

376
00:18:59,300 --> 00:19:02,100
so mad at Maggie Haberman, 
because they just wanted to put 

377
00:19:02,300 --> 00:19:04,200
after every line. 
She reports. 

378
00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:07,500
And that is very bad. 
You know, it's sort of like 

379
00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:11,200
Can't the reader read it and be 
like, oh, this see, I mean I do 

380
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:14,200
think the New York Times could 
have been a little more - and I 

381
00:19:14,200 --> 00:19:17,500
think that sometimes you can get
lost in like, well, we've got we

382
00:19:17,500 --> 00:19:19,400
put out a body of work. 
There's several different 

383
00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:22,900
stories is one story, doesn't 
sum everything up but like 

384
00:19:23,100 --> 00:19:27,000
overall I do think it's like 
yeah obviously, you're supposed 

385
00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,000
to read this interview, me like 
this guy is like fucking yeah, 

386
00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:31,800
he gave him enough rope to hang 
himself. 

387
00:19:31,800 --> 00:19:34,000
I don't know how else to say 
like right, you know, it starts 

388
00:19:34,000 --> 00:19:37,400
off with like, you know, Sam you
just lost people. 

389
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,900
Nine billion dollars I'm 
actually sleeping better than I 

390
00:19:40,900 --> 00:19:48,100
ever have before dated the lamb.
Stop crying, David more 

391
00:19:48,100 --> 00:19:52,100
billions, I lose the better. 
I sleep David like it's all 

392
00:19:52,100 --> 00:19:54,900
right there, right? 
Like you don't need like a body 

393
00:19:54,900 --> 00:19:57,600
language expert to come and 
analyze the person who confessed

394
00:19:57,600 --> 00:20:01,100
to a murder like, right? 
It's bizarre. 

395
00:20:01,100 --> 00:20:04,200
I mean people just want to eat. 
I mean obviously you know the 

396
00:20:04,208 --> 00:20:07,000
people should on the New York 
Times wrote like the Kraken CEO 

397
00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:10,100
and the coin. 
A CEO who both had negative 

398
00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:13,000
coverage from the times and I 
guess to the extent, I would 

399
00:20:13,000 --> 00:20:15,500
defend them. 
You know, it's just like people 

400
00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:20,500
get almost like more mortally 
Angry in some ways about, you 

401
00:20:20,500 --> 00:20:23,500
know, coinbase not doing enough 
to include sort of minority 

402
00:20:23,500 --> 00:20:27,800
employees then, you know, maybe 
SBF, sort of defrauding people 

403
00:20:27,800 --> 00:20:30,700
of billions of dollars. 
And so I think it's just sort of

404
00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:35,300
the tenor and tone of different 
types of stories and sort of how

405
00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:38,600
Twitter can react. 
But obviously, So, my point is 

406
00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:41,500
just, these are two CEOs who 
were covered negatively by the 

407
00:20:41,500 --> 00:20:43,900
New York Times and they're happy
to look for an excuse right to 

408
00:20:43,900 --> 00:20:47,300
dunk on the New York Times. 
There is certainly a huge media 

409
00:20:47,300 --> 00:20:51,100
aspect to the SBF story and a 
failing on the part of the media

410
00:20:51,100 --> 00:20:53,500
in the way that he was covered 
over the last couple of years. 

411
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:55,800
This is not a good example of 
it. 

412
00:20:56,400 --> 00:20:59,300
There is a Feeding Frenzy right 
now on this guy, every single 

413
00:20:59,300 --> 00:21:03,500
aspect of this person's life is 
going to be mind into content, 

414
00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:05,100
right? 
Because it's an incredible 

415
00:21:05,100 --> 00:21:06,200
story. 
If I don't know, they were 

416
00:21:06,400 --> 00:21:08,900
scandals of our time. 
Crypto, people want to play it. 

417
00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:12,300
Like the media is not going to 
willing to go after him but 

418
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:14,600
really it's like no, it's like 
the media is happy to go after 

419
00:21:14,600 --> 00:21:17,500
one of their own if there is a 
case, it's right for a great 

420
00:21:17,500 --> 00:21:20,200
story, it's a great story, but 
anyway. 

421
00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:22,300
Yeah. 
So so that was that was the 

422
00:21:22,300 --> 00:21:25,900
first interview that he gave and
then I guess the real coup de 

423
00:21:25,900 --> 00:21:31,000
gras was he had an interview 
with Kelsey Piper who is a ruse 

424
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,800
herself like an effective 
altruist person and right 

425
00:21:33,800 --> 00:21:39,700
Porter, there is so this was, he
slid into her DMs. And had an 

426
00:21:39,700 --> 00:21:43,000
hour-long conversation with 
Kelsey Piper in which and it 

427
00:21:43,000 --> 00:21:46,700
seems like they were friends in 
some way or they had a reporter.

428
00:21:46,700 --> 00:21:49,800
I certainly had a rapport 
trusted her enough to have this 

429
00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:52,800
totally insane back and forth. 
I mean yeah. 

430
00:21:52,800 --> 00:21:55,700
Truly one of the most 
self-destructive things I've 

431
00:21:55,700 --> 00:21:59,400
seen on Terry what do you mean 
Katie if you still billions of 

432
00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,000
dollars? 
And I check in on how you're 

433
00:22:02,000 --> 00:22:03,100
doing? 
Asked what's going on? 

434
00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,200
You need to at least say we're 
off the Record. 

435
00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:07,400
All right. 
Look, I feel like call me. 

436
00:22:07,500 --> 00:22:11,000
I don't care how good of 
friends, we are really a billion

437
00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:13,300
dollar like I hear you. 
Should at least like be like, 

438
00:22:13,300 --> 00:22:17,400
Eric, I just want to be clear 
where this is not report, you 

439
00:22:17,400 --> 00:22:19,500
know, it's just like there's, 
there's got to be a threshold. 

440
00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,200
I don't care how not, I 
wouldn't, you know, I don't 

441
00:22:22,200 --> 00:22:24,200
know. 
There's some limit of just like,

442
00:22:24,600 --> 00:22:26,900
if you become a criminal, you 
know, like, I don't know how 

443
00:22:26,900 --> 00:22:29,700
much really to return your call 
Eric, right? 

444
00:22:29,700 --> 00:22:32,400
Exactly. 
You might be hearing from my 

445
00:22:32,400 --> 00:22:36,300
lawyer and right. 
Yeah, I encourage readers to go 

446
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:38,800
and read the article because 
there was a kind of funny back 

447
00:22:38,800 --> 00:22:41,900
and forth between them in, which
he has like a very casual style.

448
00:22:42,000 --> 00:22:46,300
So when she's DME him being like
like what was going on, I'm not 

449
00:22:46,300 --> 00:22:48,500
calling her out for saying, like
I'm just saying that this is the

450
00:22:48,500 --> 00:22:51,700
kind of smart as usual strategy.
Yeah, it was a very yeah, I 

451
00:22:51,700 --> 00:22:53,700
guess he was, she was really 
luring him out but he also 

452
00:22:53,700 --> 00:22:55,800
seemed like he was desperate to 
talk, right? 

453
00:22:56,000 --> 00:22:58,500
You know, the idea that he was, 
you know, had his confidence 

454
00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:01,400
completely. 
You know, subverted by this 

455
00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,300
reporter here just doesn't 
really align with the fact that 

456
00:23:04,300 --> 00:23:07,400
this guy's desperate to this. 
What kind of crazy people do is 

457
00:23:07,400 --> 00:23:10,600
they want their, you know, Tales
of derring-do, a manipulation to

458
00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,100
be out there for people to 
admire We've lost Katie Because 

459
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,200
by the time this episode comes 
out, you will understand. 

460
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:19,800
The reason why just I guess I'm 
maybe pointed a special counsel 

461
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:23,000
because they're chickens but or 
whatever Katie thinks they have 

462
00:23:23,000 --> 00:23:25,700
a good reason but she has to go 
report on that. 

463
00:23:25,800 --> 00:23:28,600
Yeah, so we've lost K throughout
the episode, Happy Thanksgiving 

464
00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,500
Katie will. 
So, you know, effective altruism

465
00:23:31,500 --> 00:23:34,600
obviously, is this philosophical
movement, based in 

466
00:23:34,600 --> 00:23:38,800
utilitarianism, where and 
largely funded by Sam Bateman 

467
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:41,900
freed, that was sort of donating
with an eye. 

468
00:23:42,000 --> 00:23:45,600
Towards sort of the future 
worrying, about pandemics 

469
00:23:45,600 --> 00:23:48,000
worrying about things that cause
the most human suffering. 

470
00:23:48,000 --> 00:23:53,900
So that's that's effective. 
Altruism and in this exchange, 

471
00:23:54,500 --> 00:23:57,900
he's sort of plays it off like 
you is never a True Believer. 

472
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:00,400
And that it was all just sort of
a PR stunt. 

473
00:24:00,700 --> 00:24:03,000
He disappears people of the 
notion that he believed in any 

474
00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:04,700
of the things that he had been 
saying. 

475
00:24:04,900 --> 00:24:07,700
And I mean the one that includes
his belief in regulation of 

476
00:24:07,700 --> 00:24:09,900
crypto. 
And then also that just general 

477
00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:13,000
philosophy of effective altruism
both of Is he kind of says, for 

478
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:16,900
PR stunts, but yeah, on the 
matter of, you know, regulation 

479
00:24:17,200 --> 00:24:21,300
he texts the reporter, it was 
all just PR, fuck Regulators, 

480
00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:26,000
they make everything worse and 
then actually I didn't pull out 

481
00:24:26,000 --> 00:24:30,100
the specifics around effective 
altruism but I guess his point 

482
00:24:30,100 --> 00:24:33,100
was that the idea like you're 
saying, the argument effective 

483
00:24:33,100 --> 00:24:37,600
altruism is that in a situation 
in which there is a good usage 

484
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:39,100
of money and a bad usage of 
money. 

485
00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,800
I guess all things considered 
you should be spending that 

486
00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:45,500
money on people who know how to 
spend it on good things, right. 

487
00:24:45,500 --> 00:24:47,100
There's so much more to it than 
that. 

488
00:24:47,100 --> 00:24:52,100
I mean effective. 
Altruism has one key component 

489
00:24:52,100 --> 00:24:55,300
of it. 
Is that while like a lot of sort

490
00:24:55,300 --> 00:24:58,500
of charitable mindsets might say
you should like you as much of 

491
00:24:58,700 --> 00:25:01,900
your money as quickly as you can
effective. 

492
00:25:01,900 --> 00:25:05,400
Altruism can allow for the idea 
that you should try to make a 

493
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:08,500
lot of money so that you can 
then give it away. 

494
00:25:08,900 --> 00:25:12,400
Anyway, I SP have sort of 
disavows. 

495
00:25:12,400 --> 00:25:14,800
It's um, and I think they're 
going to be all these questions 

496
00:25:14,800 --> 00:25:18,300
around and we're going to get 
way too in our heads about it, 

497
00:25:18,500 --> 00:25:22,900
whether he's trying to protect 
effective altruism by sort of 

498
00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:25,100
slowly distancing himself from 
it. 

499
00:25:25,100 --> 00:25:29,300
So this doesn't become the sort 
of case study that ruins 

500
00:25:29,300 --> 00:25:32,800
effective altruism or if he was 
never sincere. 

501
00:25:33,200 --> 00:25:36,500
And then, I mean, there are ways
to read, you know, I think we 

502
00:25:36,500 --> 00:25:39,100
talked about this on, with a 
little bit in the episode with 

503
00:25:39,100 --> 00:25:42,800
Teddy. 
You know, going for broke or 

504
00:25:42,800 --> 00:25:47,000
like trying to get, you know, 
flip keep flipping coins, right?

505
00:25:47,000 --> 00:25:49,700
And gambling. 
Everything that there are some 

506
00:25:49,700 --> 00:25:52,200
people in the EA world, who 
thinks you should just keep 

507
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:55,500
flipping because, you know, the 
world really requires huge sum 

508
00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:59,300
of money to save it. 
So then you just like go For 

509
00:25:59,300 --> 00:26:01,600
Broke and try to get as much 
money as you can. 

510
00:26:01,600 --> 00:26:03,700
So there's a certain lens in 
which effective. 

511
00:26:03,700 --> 00:26:07,300
Altruism itself is the 
motivation for sort of Gambler, 

512
00:26:07,300 --> 00:26:09,600
what he did, right? 
Because anything below that 

513
00:26:09,600 --> 00:26:11,900
level of money is Is 
ineffective, right? 

514
00:26:11,900 --> 00:26:14,000
And you're not going to be able 
to achieve the results that are 

515
00:26:14,000 --> 00:26:16,600
necessary to improve. 
You're not willing to you know, 

516
00:26:17,100 --> 00:26:20,400
like we've talked about before 
you know these moral intuitions 

517
00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:23,600
are sometimes about biting the 
bullet and saying like no, like 

518
00:26:23,600 --> 00:26:26,900
it's not about like sort of, you
know human beings want to 

519
00:26:26,900 --> 00:26:28,800
minimize risk, right? 
It's just sort of in our 

520
00:26:28,800 --> 00:26:31,800
evolutionary psychology. 
It's well you know, you don't 

521
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:34,900
you want to, you don't want the 
downside to be too bad, even if 

522
00:26:35,100 --> 00:26:37,500
the upside would be 
revolutionary. 

523
00:26:37,700 --> 00:26:41,100
And so some of effective 
altruism is saying, No, I look 

524
00:26:41,100 --> 00:26:44,600
at the world, clearly I'm doing 
the calculus clearly and clearly

525
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:47,700
the risk is worth the reward. 
And so I'm going to do it. 

526
00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:50,900
And so there's this, there's a 
sort of view of the whole SPF 

527
00:26:50,900 --> 00:26:55,200
Saga as him sort of. 
And now, the guy clearly, I 

528
00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:59,200
mean, once everything fails, we 
start viewing him much more 

529
00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:01,500
psychologically and less is a 
rational actor. 

530
00:27:01,500 --> 00:27:04,500
And so I think now the lens is 
going to be much more like like 

531
00:27:04,500 --> 00:27:08,600
we are referencing sort of drug 
use like how koujun was he blah 

532
00:27:08,600 --> 00:27:12,600
blah blah rather than This is 
the ultimate rationalists who, 

533
00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,300
you know, pursued sort of a 
great strategy. 

534
00:27:15,300 --> 00:27:17,500
I mean, if he was he would have 
at least on his accounting 

535
00:27:17,500 --> 00:27:20,400
right, you know, right at 
there's no excuse for that. 

536
00:27:20,400 --> 00:27:23,500
You can say it's important to 
take big risks, because that's 

537
00:27:23,500 --> 00:27:25,100
the only way to achieve the 
results. 

538
00:27:25,100 --> 00:27:28,600
Required to make substantial 
agenda book should be clean and 

539
00:27:28,600 --> 00:27:31,900
it should be like well on this 
day I like put it all upside to 

540
00:27:31,900 --> 00:27:34,400
the risk of having shitty book, 
right, right. 

541
00:27:34,500 --> 00:27:36,700
That's just careless. 
And I think that's kind of what,

542
00:27:36,700 --> 00:27:40,600
you know, the the new CEO and 
arbiter of FTL. 

543
00:27:40,700 --> 00:27:44,200
Is trying to deal with here. 
But look, I think there's a part

544
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:49,700
of his entire unraveling that is
a pure distillation of the 

545
00:27:49,700 --> 00:27:53,000
utilitarian mindset, right? 
It's like better for me to have 

546
00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,800
had this money and try to funnel
it towards good. 

547
00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:57,800
Then the people that had this 
money that would have known what

548
00:27:57,800 --> 00:28:00,400
to do with it, right? 
I mean I don't know how cynical 

549
00:28:00,400 --> 00:28:03,000
all the people that movement 
really are but it's within like 

550
00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,600
the spectrum of their belief 
system that this type of action 

551
00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:08,600
was like within the bounds 
right. 

552
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,700
I mean it's like it's And owned 
by a kind of utilitarian set and

553
00:28:13,700 --> 00:28:16,200
you know, they're you know, 
somebody who is writing to me 

554
00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,400
and reminding me of my own old 
like philosophy classes. 

555
00:28:19,400 --> 00:28:23,000
I mean there is you know like 
rule utilitarianism this sort of

556
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:29,100
belief that you can't just 
abandon ethical precepts because

557
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:35,200
fundamentally adhering to those 
moral rules, will create the 

558
00:28:35,200 --> 00:28:37,400
best good. 
And that, if you totally abandon

559
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:41,300
any sort of like, oh, you should
be honest you Steal from your 

560
00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:46,000
customers in, you know, chasing 
some great outcome that 

561
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:49,900
maximizes for utilitarianism. 
That is sort of the thinking of,

562
00:28:49,900 --> 00:28:52,800
you know, a fraudster where 
you're like right, you know, I 

563
00:28:52,800 --> 00:28:56,400
alone can sort of see the great 
outcome and therefore I should 

564
00:28:56,400 --> 00:29:00,300
break all these rules in favor 
of the outcoming and clearly 

565
00:29:00,500 --> 00:29:02,200
human beings just aren't really 
equipped. 

566
00:29:02,400 --> 00:29:05,600
So, I'm much more of a rule, 
utilitarian, just a maximizer. 

567
00:29:05,900 --> 00:29:08,300
Which, by the way, is a side 
point to all of this is why it 

568
00:29:08,300 --> 00:29:10,900
is pretty hysterical. 
That it's possible that Kelsey 

569
00:29:10,900 --> 00:29:13,700
Piper the reporter at vaux 
betrayed or had like a breach of

570
00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:14,900
trust with right. 
BF. 

571
00:29:14,900 --> 00:29:17,400
Exact, because that was a purely
utilitarian, like, look, 

572
00:29:17,400 --> 00:29:19,100
alright? 
Given this information Capital, 

573
00:29:19,100 --> 00:29:19,800
right? 
Right. 

574
00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,100
The best amount of good I could 
do with that is to disseminate 

575
00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:24,500
widely because I believe that 
what you've done is wrong. 

576
00:29:24,500 --> 00:29:27,000
So no I don't think she'd live 
by the sword die by clear to be 

577
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,500
clear that it's funny what 
you're saying but there's no 

578
00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:33,000
allegation that Sam said it was 
off the Record so it's just did 

579
00:29:33,000 --> 00:29:36,500
he betray a friend? 
So that's basically where we're 

580
00:29:36,500 --> 00:29:39,800
at with SPF. 
There's going to be, you know, 

581
00:29:40,100 --> 00:29:43,600
like I said, Feeding Frenzy of 
reporters examining every aspect

582
00:29:43,600 --> 00:29:46,500
of how this company was run. 
Saw there was a profile in 

583
00:29:46,500 --> 00:29:50,900
Forbes of the CEO of Alameda 
who's an interesting character 

584
00:29:50,900 --> 00:29:54,900
and all of this potentially his 
girlfriend, you know, as more 

585
00:29:54,900 --> 00:29:57,200
filings come forward will 
finally start to learn more of 

586
00:29:57,200 --> 00:29:59,500
like where all the money went 
which hasn't been fully 

587
00:29:59,500 --> 00:30:01,200
disclosed. 
I really want to hear from his 

588
00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:03,800
parents. 
I mean that's his parents are 

589
00:30:03,800 --> 00:30:07,700
like legal experts. 
Their law professors at Stanford

590
00:30:07,700 --> 00:30:10,500
and they did help him set some 
of this up, right. 

591
00:30:10,600 --> 00:30:12,700
Why should we care if they come 
up in the filings actually? 

592
00:30:12,700 --> 00:30:15,300
So no, you're not too far. 
You're not going too far with 

593
00:30:15,300 --> 00:30:17,500
that one. 
I know that as things began to 

594
00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:21,600
unwind. 
He did consult his father that's

595
00:30:21,600 --> 00:30:24,600
a that's a tough call to make to
tell you right, I really fucked 

596
00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,500
up. 
I got nine billion in 

597
00:30:26,500 --> 00:30:29,900
liabilities that I can't really 
account for but yeah I know his 

598
00:30:29,900 --> 00:30:33,700
dad is going to be for sure 
called into you know, whatever, 

599
00:30:33,700 --> 00:30:35,600
whatever Iram aching, the TV 
show. 

600
00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:37,300
I mean that would be the central
conflict. 

601
00:30:37,300 --> 00:30:39,500
I mean on the one hand, I don't 
know anything about his parents 

602
00:30:39,500 --> 00:30:42,700
so I can imagine them. 
I mean, very sort of 

603
00:30:42,700 --> 00:30:45,600
establishment or I mean there's 
Stanford people and I am 

604
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:48,800
skeptical like it if you like 
Stanford is an Institutional 

605
00:30:48,800 --> 00:30:50,900
like Stanford exactly. 
You're talking about is that the

606
00:30:50,900 --> 00:30:52,900
Peter teal Stanford is right. 
Exactly. 

607
00:30:52,900 --> 00:30:56,200
Stanford or is a School founded 
by a robber barons? 

608
00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,600
You know, it's like it, there's 
a reason Silicon Valley is much 

609
00:30:59,600 --> 00:31:02,400
more aligned with Stanford than 
sort of the ivy league, which is

610
00:31:02,400 --> 00:31:05,800
more sort of institution. 
Maintaining state does have an 

611
00:31:05,800 --> 00:31:09,000
incredible history, they have a 
real, you know, ghouls list of 

612
00:31:09,008 --> 00:31:12,800
alumni that That I mean, SBF 
dropped out of Stanford, right? 

613
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,700
So I guess they can disown him. 
As far as that with us, there's 

614
00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:18,200
nothing more Stamford. 
You could be than a Dropout. 

615
00:31:18,200 --> 00:31:19,400
Yeah, especially if you're in 
the Peter. 

616
00:31:19,400 --> 00:31:22,100
Teal mold. 
Oh, speaking of the Peter teal 

617
00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:23,600
world. 
What aspect of this and this 

618
00:31:23,600 --> 00:31:24,900
goes a little bit back to 
effective. 

619
00:31:24,900 --> 00:31:27,900
Altruism is I saw that, you 
know, one of the people trying 

620
00:31:27,900 --> 00:31:32,200
to make a real hey, out of this 
whole Scandal are David Sachs 

621
00:31:32,500 --> 00:31:35,400
and people in his orbit and I 
did pull a few wants to talk 

622
00:31:35,400 --> 00:31:38,200
about everything but the 
midterms right now, but, but the

623
00:31:38,200 --> 00:31:39,600
midterms. 
Yeah. 

624
00:31:39,800 --> 00:31:42,200
But, but yeah, Tweet that I 
contacted me. 

625
00:31:42,200 --> 00:31:44,500
Which was that the biggest con 
man, since Madoff, just 

626
00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:47,500
admitted, that woke is virtue 
signaling game quote, where we 

627
00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:50,200
say all the right shibboleths. 
And so Everyone likes us. 

628
00:31:50,500 --> 00:31:52,300
How stupid does the New York 
Times feel now? 

629
00:31:53,700 --> 00:31:55,900
I understand that everything 
through this guy's worldview of 

630
00:31:55,900 --> 00:31:59,400
Saxon talking about is about 
woke and and it's the only, it's

631
00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:01,900
like the laziest term. 
But he just assumes that 

632
00:32:01,900 --> 00:32:04,200
everything that is like 
altruistic is woke. 

633
00:32:04,200 --> 00:32:06,400
I really don't refer. 
I wouldn't refer to effective 

634
00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:09,200
altruism as being woke right 
there like barely. 

635
00:32:09,200 --> 00:32:11,300
It's I woke. 
Yeah, a lot of the woke people 

636
00:32:11,300 --> 00:32:13,900
hate it because they're like I 
let everybody now die. 

637
00:32:13,900 --> 00:32:16,700
Because people's lives. 
You know, we have to worry about

638
00:32:16,700 --> 00:32:20,200
all lives and future lives would
be saved by deferring the money 

639
00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:22,000
to do it. 
You know, there are lots of what

640
00:32:22,000 --> 00:32:24,900
people hate it, a lot of ways 
also, So yeah no Wolk thing is a

641
00:32:24,908 --> 00:32:28,800
scam you know like they're 
barely any woke people anymore. 

642
00:32:29,200 --> 00:32:31,700
I'm also like after the midterms
in which like people that ran 

643
00:32:31,700 --> 00:32:35,200
explicitly on the anti woke 
agenda just got like creamed 

644
00:32:35,200 --> 00:32:36,300
right. 
I don't know how much I would 

645
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,100
like spend. 
I don't know yet just in that 

646
00:32:38,100 --> 00:32:40,200
stuff. 
David Sachs is out there acting 

647
00:32:40,200 --> 00:32:44,900
like the fact that the Biden in 
administration wants to resolve 

648
00:32:44,900 --> 00:32:48,800
the Ukrainian Russia war is like
some victory to him. 

649
00:32:48,800 --> 00:32:51,200
Like I used, tried to set it up,
I don't know. 

650
00:32:51,200 --> 00:32:53,800
I don't want to go down this 
whole rabbit hole but Just want 

651
00:32:53,800 --> 00:32:56,400
to put it on the record that I 
think it's absolutely absurd. 

652
00:32:56,400 --> 00:33:00,100
That David Sachs thinks he 
should get credit for any sort 

653
00:33:00,100 --> 00:33:04,200
of like, you know, like like 
what they were just going to 

654
00:33:04,208 --> 00:33:07,400
blow rush off the map. 
Like obviously it's some level 

655
00:33:07,400 --> 00:33:11,500
like there would be a negotiated
settlement and that that might 

656
00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:15,400
not include Crimea, anyway. 
Sorry this is this doesn't drive

657
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,100
you insane. 
I did. 

658
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,500
He's so disingenuous about what 
he gets credit for you. 

659
00:33:19,500 --> 00:33:21,500
Don't think the defense 
department is listening to all 

660
00:33:21,500 --> 00:33:23,300
land and his fucking at his 
tweets. 

661
00:33:23,400 --> 00:33:25,900
And like deciding, you know, 
with all the like Chiefs of 

662
00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:28,700
Staff, try to stab whether or 
not liking how can you finally 

663
00:33:28,700 --> 00:33:31,900
arms to Ukraine are not. 
So you didn't persuade them. 

664
00:33:31,900 --> 00:33:35,900
So it's more, just like he's 
annoyed that he basically he 

665
00:33:35,900 --> 00:33:38,400
wanted to voice it earlier 
whereas other people were a 

666
00:33:38,408 --> 00:33:42,400
little more deferential to the 
US state department to just 

667
00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,800
figure it out as this was a live
situation, I everything now 

668
00:33:45,800 --> 00:33:47,900
especially if you'd through 
Twitter like the people that 

669
00:33:47,900 --> 00:33:50,100
respond to your Tweet is a 
battle between you and your 

670
00:33:50,100 --> 00:33:52,700
haters right time. 
So I'm assuming I don't follow 

671
00:33:52,700 --> 00:33:55,300
him but I'm a You mean that 
every time he tweets out, you 

672
00:33:55,300 --> 00:33:58,100
know, that there should be like 
a truce negotiated between the 

673
00:33:58,100 --> 00:34:02,000
Ukraine and Russia, he has like 
an army of people in his replies

674
00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:03,600
just like shitting on him for 
it. 

675
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:06,500
And certainly, I mean, the great
thing about Twitter is you can 

676
00:34:06,500 --> 00:34:10,300
bait, people who hate you into 
over, extending their own 

677
00:34:10,300 --> 00:34:13,500
position by sort of 
articulating, a repetition that 

678
00:34:13,500 --> 00:34:16,199
people want to share that, like 
his replies is the discourse 

679
00:34:16,199 --> 00:34:19,400
like he really thinks that is 
the national conversation he's 

680
00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,699
just a disingenuous, are you are
an well in Fury, okay? 

681
00:34:22,699 --> 00:34:25,100
So all of this This then is 
actually a perfect transition 

682
00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:27,300
into the other thing we're going
to talk about on this podcast, 

683
00:34:27,300 --> 00:34:29,000
which is Twitter. 
Oh, yeah. 

684
00:34:29,600 --> 00:34:33,199
Because everything devolves to a
conversation, about your Twitter

685
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:37,000
thinking that the people that 
are in your replies, is the 

686
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:39,000
world. 
And that is like, how business 

687
00:34:39,000 --> 00:34:41,000
works. 
That is how politics works. 

688
00:34:41,000 --> 00:34:44,199
That is how like the economy 
Works seems to have been the 

689
00:34:44,199 --> 00:34:47,800
main miscalculation that Elon 
Musk had any but sweater. 

690
00:34:48,300 --> 00:34:50,900
So let's just give a quick recap
on where things are right now 

691
00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,600
because it is fairly and I want 
to read the Fresh off the 

692
00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,100
presses. 
He tweeted this 30 minutes ago 

693
00:34:58,200 --> 00:34:59,500
this is Elon Musk. 
Okay. 

694
00:34:59,500 --> 00:35:01,400
Yeah. 
Elon Musk. 

695
00:35:01,400 --> 00:35:05,000
New Twitter policy is freedom of
speech but not freedom of reach 

696
00:35:05,300 --> 00:35:08,100
- hate. 
Tweets will be maxed he boosted 

697
00:35:08,900 --> 00:35:12,000
and demonetized so no ads are 
other Revenue to Twitter. 

698
00:35:12,200 --> 00:35:15,000
You won't find the Tweet unless 
you specifically seek it out 

699
00:35:15,000 --> 00:35:17,300
which is no different from the 
rest of the internet. 

700
00:35:17,800 --> 00:35:20,400
So basically he's ended up to 
where things already were but 

701
00:35:20,400 --> 00:35:23,200
like well the ultimate question 
is just what our - hate tweets. 

702
00:35:23,300 --> 00:35:26,800
It's and it's just but he said 
it's not going to be boosted, 

703
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:28,300
right? 
Isn't that the exact complain 

704
00:35:28,300 --> 00:35:30,000
about Matt O'Bannon? 
He boosted. 

705
00:35:30,000 --> 00:35:31,600
Yeah, so it's not even Shadow 
been. 

706
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,400
He's basically saying we're 
going to be shouted Banning. 

707
00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:36,000
Yeah, exactly. 
Congratulations you right? 

708
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:37,900
You ended up is to wear Twitter 
was before you bought the 

709
00:35:37,900 --> 00:35:40,400
company the thing, right? 
Forced you to buy the company is

710
00:35:40,400 --> 00:35:44,000
where you've ended up. 
Okay, let's see him. 

711
00:35:44,000 --> 00:35:48,800
You stated Babylon be okay. 
His work here is done. 

712
00:35:49,900 --> 00:35:52,200
Okay. 
So here is my understanding of 

713
00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,400
where things are at Twitter over
the last week or so. 

714
00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:58,700
And this is clearly a, you know,
a quickly moving story earlier 

715
00:35:58,700 --> 00:36:00,700
this week, which is going to be 
last week by the time people 

716
00:36:00,700 --> 00:36:04,300
listen to this episode, he laid 
off half of the company. 

717
00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:07,800
So 50% or so. 
The a 7,000 people that worked 

718
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:10,500
at Twitter were given notice 
marching orders. 

719
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:14,100
And honestly, I mean, Without 
elon's price, still gonna lay 

720
00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:17,500
off like 30%. 
Yeah, that's economy with meta 

721
00:36:17,600 --> 00:36:20,400
and Amazon, and everyone, 
everyone, but Google. 

722
00:36:20,400 --> 00:36:22,900
And apple laying people off. 
Yes, there were probably layoffs

723
00:36:22,900 --> 00:36:25,100
to come but he laid off 50%, 
which is pretty dramatic. 

724
00:36:25,100 --> 00:36:27,500
Now when it's good, it is good 
to do it all once. 

725
00:36:27,500 --> 00:36:31,300
I think there's good, it's good 
to have a sense of realism. 

726
00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,700
Anyway, idea, I don't want to 
just and people are experiencing

727
00:36:34,700 --> 00:36:37,900
that people were expecting that 
there was a complete debacle 

728
00:36:37,900 --> 00:36:41,100
with Twitter blue, which was a 
subscription service that he was

729
00:36:41,100 --> 00:36:43,400
going to make. 
I even want to go into Twitter 

730
00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,100
blue. 
It's kind of old news now but 

731
00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:48,200
that, that didn't work out. 
Well, reporters are salty, 

732
00:36:48,900 --> 00:36:50,600
right? 
And then, and then, so, the most

733
00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:53,800
recent, at the time of 
recording, this podcast, 

734
00:36:53,800 --> 00:36:56,500
controversy has been, he 
basically gave an ultimatum to 

735
00:36:56,500 --> 00:36:59,300
the remaining employees saying, 
you're either in or out. 

736
00:36:59,400 --> 00:37:00,600
He gave them like the Jerry 
Maguire. 

737
00:37:00,600 --> 00:37:04,000
You have to you have to testify 
the you're willing to be 

738
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,200
extremely hard core otherwise 
we'll give you three months 

739
00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:11,400
Severance and you can go on your
way and turns out three months 

740
00:37:11,400 --> 00:37:13,700
Severance sounds great. 
Like I know. 

741
00:37:14,000 --> 00:37:16,800
Yeah. 
It's just like yeah better than 

742
00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:18,400
most of the way. 
Alright companies doing. 

743
00:37:19,000 --> 00:37:22,900
Yeah and so hundreds of people 
took him up in the three months 

744
00:37:22,900 --> 00:37:25,500
offer it was way more than he 
was expecting there. 

745
00:37:25,500 --> 00:37:27,600
Sounded like there were 
emergency desperate meetings to 

746
00:37:27,607 --> 00:37:31,000
keep some of the essential, you 
know, top Engineers, top product

747
00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:34,600
people, I don't know, some, some
marketing, people keep them on 

748
00:37:34,600 --> 00:37:37,100
board. 
It's unclear how that played out

749
00:37:37,100 --> 00:37:40,400
there is like this cascading 
series of like salute emojis 

750
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:42,000
inside the Twitter slack, I love
you. 

751
00:37:42,400 --> 00:37:45,700
Yeah, people were signing off 
and this was not a guess what 

752
00:37:45,700 --> 00:37:48,100
you I was expecting. 
I want to say, I want to have 

753
00:37:48,100 --> 00:37:50,800
according to the line New York 
Times, right? 

754
00:37:50,900 --> 00:37:54,500
Well, but I do want to say, and 
I said this probably still in my

755
00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:56,900
tweets somewhere when it was 
coming out that you, I was 

756
00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,700
buying a company, I put out a 
poll and I said, what percentage

757
00:37:59,700 --> 00:38:01,200
of Twitter employees? 
Do you think you're going to 

758
00:38:01,200 --> 00:38:03,700
quit the company? 
And it was like a ten percent 

759
00:38:03,700 --> 00:38:07,200
when I was in for free? 
The lowest responding answer was

760
00:38:07,200 --> 00:38:11,900
50% plus and I guess you could 
debate, you know, lay off versus

761
00:38:11,900 --> 00:38:14,200
like people. 
Her leaving, but like there was 

762
00:38:14,200 --> 00:38:16,100
a huge fucking issue with 
people. 

763
00:38:16,100 --> 00:38:18,200
Not wanted to work at the Iran, 
must go and Twitter. 

764
00:38:18,500 --> 00:38:21,600
And I don't see why more people 
weren't willing to expect that. 

765
00:38:22,700 --> 00:38:24,700
I don't know. 
I don't, yeah, it just like it 

766
00:38:24,700 --> 00:38:26,800
seems. 
So clearly obvious that anyone 

767
00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,400
who is going to come in and buy 
this company strictly for 

768
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:32,700
ideological reasons was going to
run into this problem. 

769
00:38:32,700 --> 00:38:35,800
Well, there is a great tweet 
Storm from of recently departed 

770
00:38:35,800 --> 00:38:40,200
Twitter employee. 
There was just like Elon didn't 

771
00:38:40,200 --> 00:38:42,300
articulate sort of a Grand 
Vision. 

772
00:38:42,400 --> 00:38:47,300
You know, it is not. 
Tesla and SpaceX, right? 

773
00:38:47,300 --> 00:38:50,500
You know, so it's like, what are
you fighting for? 

774
00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,700
What am I going to be hardcore 
for, right? 

775
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:56,600
And, you know, it's there is 
sort of like, which political 

776
00:38:56,600 --> 00:38:59,400
Vector is Elon really aligned 
with and like, what are the 

777
00:38:59,400 --> 00:39:02,200
goals of Twitter? 
And like, what does it stand 

778
00:39:02,200 --> 00:39:04,400
for? 
I mean, his this is where his, 

779
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:07,900
like, incoherency about free 
speech. 

780
00:39:07,900 --> 00:39:10,000
And like his mind, moderation 
policies. 

781
00:39:10,000 --> 00:39:12,500
And whether he's trying to 
satisfy the middle or sort of 

782
00:39:12,500 --> 00:39:17,100
The Joe Rogan class or what What
what exact constituency does he 

783
00:39:17,100 --> 00:39:20,700
believe with believe in an 
aligned with, besides his own 

784
00:39:20,700 --> 00:39:24,000
off-the-cuff control. 
It's hard to get people to Rally

785
00:39:24,000 --> 00:39:27,900
around you who want to believe 
in a cause, you know, and his 

786
00:39:27,900 --> 00:39:31,500
inability articulate, this has 
actually been a major major 

787
00:39:31,500 --> 00:39:34,900
problem with, with his ability, 
to get allies. 

788
00:39:35,000 --> 00:39:36,700
Yeah, because he wasn't able to 
answer it. 

789
00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:39,300
The central question that people
had, which is why are you buying

790
00:39:39,300 --> 00:39:40,900
this company? 
Because there were two 

791
00:39:40,900 --> 00:39:43,700
arguments, one, is that it was 
an underwhelming underperforming

792
00:39:43,700 --> 00:39:46,500
business. 
That is totally true. 

793
00:39:46,700 --> 00:39:49,400
Twitter has been like an 
absolute mediocrity as a 

794
00:39:49,408 --> 00:39:51,400
business for as long as it's 
been around. 

795
00:39:51,600 --> 00:39:53,900
And then there's the like this 
is an essential part of free 

796
00:39:53,900 --> 00:39:57,100
speech and it's shirking. 
Its duties by Shadow Banning cat

797
00:39:57,100 --> 00:40:02,100
turd, or whatever, and these two
visions are potentially in 

798
00:40:02,100 --> 00:40:05,000
Conflict. 
Like I think he and the 

799
00:40:05,000 --> 00:40:07,800
billionaires and non 
billionaires in his, you know, 

800
00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:11,400
text threads truly believe that 
this was an entire company made 

801
00:40:11,400 --> 00:40:16,300
up of like Tucker Carlson's. 
And of Taylor Lorenz, right? 

802
00:40:16,300 --> 00:40:20,000
He was just a bunch of like, 
weepy woke snowflakes just 

803
00:40:20,100 --> 00:40:23,400
seeing, you know, - tweets 
crying about it and banning 

804
00:40:23,400 --> 00:40:25,600
people. 
And and that was the entire 

805
00:40:25,600 --> 00:40:27,700
company. 
It wasn't full of Engineers or 

806
00:40:27,700 --> 00:40:30,000
product people or people trying 
to keep the business running. 

807
00:40:30,000 --> 00:40:32,000
It was just, you know, woke 
idiots. 

808
00:40:32,000 --> 00:40:36,500
And I just he he one that's not 
a great reason to buy a company 

809
00:40:36,500 --> 00:40:38,500
anyway, but also clearly he was 
wrong. 

810
00:40:38,900 --> 00:40:41,600
And once he realized that people
didn't want to work there 

811
00:40:41,600 --> 00:40:43,400
anymore, he realize that they 
actually did have a central 

812
00:40:43,400 --> 00:40:46,400
value, right? 
So I mean, I will say we kind of

813
00:40:46,400 --> 00:40:50,600
touched on this a bit with the 
teddy episode, but I'm dying to 

814
00:40:50,600 --> 00:40:54,500
know the other side of the story
here because in one sense this 

815
00:40:54,500 --> 00:40:57,100
is a reporter's dream, right? 
It's incredibly dramatic. 

816
00:40:57,100 --> 00:41:00,200
We have this character and Elon 
Musk who reporters don't like, 

817
00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,600
you know, just generally 
politically, they're not aligned

818
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:05,100
with him. 
And so it's, you know, it's like

819
00:41:05,100 --> 00:41:07,700
a fucking keep using the term, 
like, Feeding Frenzy, 

820
00:41:08,100 --> 00:41:10,700
especially, with sources that 
are dying to offload. 

821
00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:13,100
All the bullshit that's going 
on, inside you two coming, but 

822
00:41:13,100 --> 00:41:16,100
Elon doesn't have any PR Beretta
surround him, right? 

823
00:41:16,100 --> 00:41:17,500
From what I read the New York 
Times story. 

824
00:41:17,500 --> 00:41:19,900
They do not have a comms 
Department right now, so there 

825
00:41:19,900 --> 00:41:22,300
is no contrasting narrative to 
what's going on right now. 

826
00:41:22,300 --> 00:41:25,200
So that's sort of the reality 
that's going to get out there 

827
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:27,900
because no one is able to push 
back on it. 

828
00:41:28,100 --> 00:41:31,500
Well yeah, it's all right. 
It's so negative about Eli on 

829
00:41:31,500 --> 00:41:34,000
Twitter right now, right? 
There's a mood on Twitter as if 

830
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,900
there's going to be sort of a 
fail, whale this evening and 

831
00:41:37,900 --> 00:41:39,300
that's what I'm going to be the 
end of it. 

832
00:41:39,300 --> 00:41:44,900
And so, I think empirically I am
interested in How likely We is 

833
00:41:44,900 --> 00:41:48,300
Twitter really to crash without 
sort of the Staffing. 

834
00:41:48,600 --> 00:41:52,300
I think there is an argument 
that the left is being a little 

835
00:41:52,300 --> 00:41:56,800
history Raonic on that history 
on it and like maybe it doesn't 

836
00:41:56,800 --> 00:42:01,300
crash and it keeps operating and
I mean if the worst that happens

837
00:42:01,300 --> 00:42:07,000
is Twitter is slow to, you know,
improve that will be just like 

838
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:09,700
the old Twitter. 
You know, I was thinking back to

839
00:42:09,700 --> 00:42:13,500
Barbarians at the gate and the 
whole era of leveraged buyouts 

840
00:42:13,700 --> 00:42:16,700
is essentially This is right. 
It's, you know we make it into 

841
00:42:16,700 --> 00:42:21,600
something kind of mysterious and
and whatever evil. 

842
00:42:21,600 --> 00:42:24,800
But in fact, this is kind of a 
standard right in process, like 

843
00:42:24,800 --> 00:42:26,300
a leveraged buyout. 
But during a leveraged buyout, 

844
00:42:26,300 --> 00:42:31,100
the new owner of the property 
who let you know, lay it up with

845
00:42:31,100 --> 00:42:33,800
debt and all that stuff. 
They typically work with 

846
00:42:33,800 --> 00:42:36,600
Management in order to kind of 
keep some semblance of 

847
00:42:36,600 --> 00:42:39,900
transition Before ice goats, you
know, start going through and 

848
00:42:39,900 --> 00:42:42,600
like ripping out all the, you 
know, drywall and shit. 

849
00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:44,600
But that wasn't the case here. 
Right? 

850
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:48,000
He comes in day one and fires. 
The CEO fire is the CFO like a 

851
00:42:48,000 --> 00:42:50,500
popular head of legal. 
All the kinds of people that you

852
00:42:50,500 --> 00:42:53,100
probably would have needed to 
have like an orderly transition,

853
00:42:53,100 --> 00:42:55,000
right? 
Our because he wanted to be, you

854
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:57,900
know, like a new page and 
dramatic new ownership. 

855
00:42:58,200 --> 00:43:00,800
And that that's just not how 
these things are typically done.

856
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:04,000
Like there is a Playbook of 
leveraged buyouts, and he just 

857
00:43:04,000 --> 00:43:07,000
decided to abandon it in favor 
of what he thought Twitter 

858
00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:09,100
needed, which was like dramatic 
action, right? 

859
00:43:09,100 --> 00:43:12,100
And it just fucking blew up. 
I mean, I don't know, there's no

860
00:43:12,100 --> 00:43:13,600
other way to really see it, 
right? 

861
00:43:13,600 --> 00:43:18,000
And I think, Is an argument that
elon's management style works 

862
00:43:18,000 --> 00:43:22,500
for SpaceX and Tesla because 
people are True Believers. 

863
00:43:22,500 --> 00:43:24,200
You can sell them on the 
mission. 

864
00:43:24,700 --> 00:43:28,700
They know what it's for, you 
know, become sort of a kalt 

865
00:43:28,700 --> 00:43:32,600
whereas, you know, Twitter, 
Twitter exists. 

866
00:43:32,700 --> 00:43:35,500
So you need to really give 
people a vision of what, what 

867
00:43:35,500 --> 00:43:38,100
they're building for sort of 
different than today. 

868
00:43:38,100 --> 00:43:40,000
So, a lot of White Collar jobs, 
right? 

869
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:41,600
Like these people have skill 
sets, right? 

870
00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,300
Pretty easily. 
Transferable to other companies.

871
00:43:44,700 --> 00:43:46,600
And they have more money so 
they're not as desperate to 

872
00:43:46,607 --> 00:43:48,900
stick with the job because they 
don't, you know, they don't need

873
00:43:48,900 --> 00:43:51,500
it as much. 
And you know, I've seen the 

874
00:43:51,508 --> 00:43:53,500
argument made out there that the
people that are staying or 

875
00:43:53,500 --> 00:43:55,900
staying because they have to pay
bills, you know, like they don't

876
00:43:55,900 --> 00:43:59,000
have that much money, right? 
Well, in the worst case they 

877
00:43:59,000 --> 00:44:01,600
have visas. 
And so they're sort of, I mean, 

878
00:44:01,600 --> 00:44:05,100
this this speaks to some of the 
problems with the VISA program 

879
00:44:05,700 --> 00:44:08,500
that, you know, people can't 
walk with their feet, which is a

880
00:44:08,508 --> 00:44:11,700
key part of capitalism. 
Like, you should be allowed to 

881
00:44:11,700 --> 00:44:13,700
leave your job and go to another
one when you don't like 

882
00:44:13,700 --> 00:44:17,500
management, There's something 
abusive about employees who are 

883
00:44:17,508 --> 00:44:20,900
on visas being trapped that a 
particular company and it goes 

884
00:44:20,900 --> 00:44:23,000
against right? 
Sort of the freedom that's part 

885
00:44:23,000 --> 00:44:26,400
of capitalism, right. 
So I guess I can closing out 

886
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:30,000
this episode and it's an 
impossible question to answer 

887
00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,800
but it's really the only 
question asked which is like 

888
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:35,300
where does this go at this 
point? 

889
00:44:35,300 --> 00:44:39,000
What happens because because I 
see like a couple of paths I 

890
00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:42,100
mean one possibility is that he 
just unloads this thing he just,

891
00:44:42,100 --> 00:44:46,400
you know, somehow, you know who 
well, I don't know, some sort of

892
00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:48,000
private Equity Firm that 
probably should have been 

893
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:50,600
responsible for the elbow in the
first movie, such a loss. 

894
00:44:50,600 --> 00:44:54,500
Like I almost think the opposite
that he is tanking the 

895
00:44:54,500 --> 00:44:59,000
reputation he gets the debt down
the like 40% or something. 

896
00:44:59,300 --> 00:45:03,300
Then he buys you been more of it
and he owns it and then on a on 

897
00:45:03,300 --> 00:45:07,900
the cost basis of the his new 
ownership he could actually sort

898
00:45:07,900 --> 00:45:09,800
of I'm out. 
Okay sure. 

899
00:45:09,800 --> 00:45:12,500
If you manage to make it a 
purely profitable company, I 

900
00:45:12,508 --> 00:45:15,700
mean the typical way a leveraged
buyout works is that you slash a

901
00:45:15,700 --> 00:45:17,900
ton of costs. 
You lay up with it with a ton of

902
00:45:17,900 --> 00:45:21,300
debt and then you re listed as a
public company and like this new

903
00:45:21,300 --> 00:45:24,800
leaner, meaner version of the 
company is more profitable and 

904
00:45:24,800 --> 00:45:27,500
maybe you can make it you know 
up all you know right Public 

905
00:45:27,500 --> 00:45:30,500
Market evaluation hit has just 
been so bad it's such a terrible

906
00:45:30,500 --> 00:45:32,200
time. 
Well I suppose you're surprised 

907
00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,600
that he paid for it but I can 
see like idiot logically where 

908
00:45:35,600 --> 00:45:38,400
he's going here which is that he
had a great plan. 

909
00:45:38,700 --> 00:45:41,200
All of the woke, Twitter 
employees ruined it for him. 

910
00:45:41,400 --> 00:45:45,400
I want to read a tweet that I 
think is emblematic of the, I 

911
00:45:45,408 --> 00:45:48,000
don't know. 
Certainly the mark in but this 

912
00:45:48,000 --> 00:45:50,000
guy is citing a book. 
Mark injuries and loves at the 

913
00:45:50,000 --> 00:45:51,800
moment, so that's why I'm 
connecting to him. 

914
00:45:51,800 --> 00:45:56,100
But Antonio Garcia Martinez, the
author of chaos monkeys and I'll

915
00:45:56,100 --> 00:46:02,000
sort of a July Ally of the no 
dark and light Mentor. 

916
00:46:02,000 --> 00:46:04,000
I don't know if you would agree 
with that, whatever he's on 

917
00:46:04,300 --> 00:46:07,200
often on the right though. 
He's been aligned with the left 

918
00:46:07,200 --> 00:46:08,500
on Ukraine. 
Anyway, it doesn't matter. 

919
00:46:08,600 --> 00:46:12,300
He's one of them. 
He says what Elon is doing is a 

920
00:46:12,308 --> 00:46:16,100
Revolt by the entrepreneurial 
Capital against the professional

921
00:46:16,100 --> 00:46:20,700
managerial class regime that 
otherwise everywhere dominates 

922
00:46:20,700 --> 00:46:24,100
including an especially large 
tech companies and that same 

923
00:46:24,100 --> 00:46:27,500
PMC, professional managerial 
class, which includes the media 

924
00:46:27,500 --> 00:46:30,000
is treating it. 
As an act of last matches. 

925
00:46:30,000 --> 00:46:34,700
Stay Majesty less Majesty in 
Burnham's formulation, this is 

926
00:46:34,700 --> 00:46:36,500
James Burnham. 
The author of The managerial 

927
00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:39,900
Revolution and Burnham's 
formulation New managerial class

928
00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:43,200
would supplant the former 
business owning Bourgeois, and 

929
00:46:43,200 --> 00:46:46,000
even Capital itself. 
As the elite ruling class, most 

930
00:46:46,000 --> 00:46:48,500
woke, labor scandals and Tech 
aren't entitled middle 

931
00:46:48,500 --> 00:46:50,800
management class at odds with 
Founders. 

932
00:46:50,800 --> 00:46:54,300
I think that's very true. 
You know, most woke, labor 

933
00:46:54,300 --> 00:46:56,800
scandals and Tack are an 
entitled middle management class

934
00:46:56,800 --> 00:46:59,500
at odds with Founders. 
I mean, the media is basically 

935
00:46:59,500 --> 00:47:02,500
talking to employees and 
parenting them now. 

936
00:47:02,500 --> 00:47:05,800
Partly because Founders have 
decided to talk to the media 

937
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,300
less. 
But yeah, I mean this is sort of

938
00:47:08,300 --> 00:47:10,500
what's Opening or what do you 
make of these tweets? 

939
00:47:10,900 --> 00:47:16,200
I but I would buy that argument 
as true but also entirely 

940
00:47:16,200 --> 00:47:20,400
avoidable, because if these guys
are so tapped into the mindset 

941
00:47:20,400 --> 00:47:23,000
of the PMC and their woke 
agenda, they could have 

942
00:47:23,000 --> 00:47:26,300
anticipated all of this. 
They could have had a honeymoon 

943
00:47:26,300 --> 00:47:29,500
period coming into the company 
in which they, you know, yes, 

944
00:47:29,500 --> 00:47:32,100
lured them into. 
Yeah, it wouldn't have been that

945
00:47:32,100 --> 00:47:33,500
fucking hard. 
Regulate them, aren't you 

946
00:47:33,500 --> 00:47:36,100
supposed to be the winners? 
Yeah, because like, this is the 

947
00:47:36,107 --> 00:47:38,000
fucking free market that you're 
defending here. 

948
00:47:38,100 --> 00:47:40,300
It's like, if There is a great 
business beneath all of it than 

949
00:47:40,300 --> 00:47:43,200
it should be able to withstand 
all of these you know, woke 

950
00:47:43,200 --> 00:47:44,700
pmc's. 
Alright. 

951
00:47:44,700 --> 00:47:47,400
If the problem that Twitter had 
was that there were too many 

952
00:47:47,400 --> 00:47:51,400
people at the helm that were 
thinking about, you know, the 

953
00:47:51,400 --> 00:47:54,500
emotions rather than like the 
cold hard facts of what a great 

954
00:47:54,500 --> 00:47:56,000
business is. 
Then this shouldn't matter. 

955
00:47:56,000 --> 00:47:58,600
You should be able to Route 
these people out and bring in a 

956
00:47:58,607 --> 00:48:02,500
new group of, you know, based 
Engineers, who can bring Twitter

957
00:48:02,500 --> 00:48:05,400
to where it should have been, 
but you also shouldn't have even

958
00:48:05,400 --> 00:48:07,200
gotten there. 
You could have eased these 

959
00:48:07,200 --> 00:48:10,800
people out of the company with A
three-week honeymoon period that

960
00:48:10,800 --> 00:48:13,000
would have gotten rid of a lot 
of these or that would have done

961
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:15,600
away with a lot of these issues.
So no II totally reject that 

962
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:21,400
argument because one I just 
don't think it withstands any 

963
00:48:21,400 --> 00:48:24,600
sort of economic test because if
there's a great business model 

964
00:48:24,600 --> 00:48:27,300
here, I don't see it yet and it 
just doesn't seem like there was

965
00:48:27,300 --> 00:48:31,500
a plan but yeah, sure, I do 
agree that like woke scandals or

966
00:48:31,500 --> 00:48:34,800
the results of, you know, 
middle-management stirring shit 

967
00:48:34,800 --> 00:48:35,900
up. 
But like a scandal is not the 

968
00:48:35,900 --> 00:48:37,300
same thing as a business 
problem. 

969
00:48:37,500 --> 00:48:39,100
And right now he has a business 
Problem. 

970
00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:41,900
Right? 
I mean like he's actively 

971
00:48:42,200 --> 00:48:46,200
alienating advertisers right? 
Well, that sure the argument 

972
00:48:46,200 --> 00:48:49,300
would be advertisers are in 
cahoots, cat. 

973
00:48:49,300 --> 00:48:51,400
I mean, they're trying to sell 
their products to as many people

974
00:48:51,400 --> 00:48:53,600
as possible. 
I my objection to our. 

975
00:48:53,600 --> 00:48:56,600
First of all, it's just setting 
up a case where we're supposed 

976
00:48:56,600 --> 00:48:59,400
to some out route for like the 
capitalist class. 

977
00:48:59,400 --> 00:49:01,900
You know, it's like, oh, we 
called him entrepreneurial 

978
00:49:01,900 --> 00:49:05,500
Capital, you know, it just like 
Founders, whatever, you know, 

979
00:49:05,500 --> 00:49:09,000
they do represent their the 
ultimate Elites who Trying to 

980
00:49:09,000 --> 00:49:12,800
pretend like they're not, I 
don't know. 

981
00:49:12,800 --> 00:49:14,700
We should bring him on. 
I'm happy to have my lunch. 

982
00:49:14,700 --> 00:49:16,000
Yeah. 
That bgm on here. 

983
00:49:16,000 --> 00:49:19,400
And argue this case, he likes 
directly, maybe, maybe I'm 

984
00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:20,600
surprised you haven't asked him 
yet. 

985
00:49:20,600 --> 00:49:24,100
Honestly, he he might be the 
one, you know, non coward among 

986
00:49:24,100 --> 00:49:25,400
them. 
Well, I'm dying to hear more 

987
00:49:25,400 --> 00:49:29,000
people defending Ilan because I 
certainly sympathize with any 

988
00:49:29,000 --> 00:49:32,000
perspective that is like, boy. 
This is a very one-sided story 

989
00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:33,300
right now? 
Yes. 

990
00:49:33,400 --> 00:49:36,400
I mean, but I, the media was 
desperate, like, I'm sure they 

991
00:49:36,400 --> 00:49:38,500
would interview Elin. 
That's, that's the one thing I'm

992
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:41,900
I get that the media would 
probably interview them under 

993
00:49:42,000 --> 00:49:46,400
their frame but people are 
hungry to still to hear from 

994
00:49:46,400 --> 00:49:49,200
these CEOs, and but if you 
listen to these people, 

995
00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,900
especially ones that are on the 
all in podcast, they argued that

996
00:49:51,900 --> 00:49:54,300
talking to the media, isn't it 
is of itself like an act of 

997
00:49:54,300 --> 00:49:58,600
treachery it's pointless to do. 
And so it's just not very, it's 

998
00:49:58,600 --> 00:50:01,100
not fair, if you're like, well, 
the media is dominated by 

999
00:50:01,100 --> 00:50:02,800
workers. 
It's like, well, if workers are 

1000
00:50:02,800 --> 00:50:06,000
the ones talking to Media, then,
that makes sense. 

1001
00:50:06,100 --> 00:50:08,200
You know, this is a topic that 
we may be revisiting. 

1002
00:50:08,600 --> 00:50:11,300
In future episodes because 
whether it's a GM or other 

1003
00:50:11,300 --> 00:50:13,800
people that are in that orbit, 
I'd love to hear. 

1004
00:50:13,800 --> 00:50:17,100
I'd love to hear from them 
because I personally, as a 

1005
00:50:17,100 --> 00:50:19,300
reader of these stories, I'm not
done any sort of reporting. 

1006
00:50:19,500 --> 00:50:22,600
I do feel like it is incredibly 
one-sided but unfortunate that's

1007
00:50:22,600 --> 00:50:24,700
the one side that's talking 
right? 

1008
00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,400
And I don't know what else a 
reporter can do. 

1009
00:50:26,400 --> 00:50:29,200
And there are way more of them 
and an employee's believe, all 

1010
00:50:29,200 --> 00:50:31,800
sorts of different things. 
I just think reducing it's 

1011
00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:37,300
convenient to reduce workers to 
a class because then he'll on 

1012
00:50:37,300 --> 00:50:41,900
who is one. 
In is on equal footing with, you

1013
00:50:41,900 --> 00:50:45,400
know, the thousands of angry 
employees, you know? 

1014
00:50:45,400 --> 00:50:47,500
And and hundreds are more of 
angry. 

1015
00:50:47,500 --> 00:50:50,900
Advertisers, you know, it is 
like they're your these masses 

1016
00:50:50,900 --> 00:50:52,700
of and then there's also the 
public right? 

1017
00:50:52,700 --> 00:50:56,500
That has its points of view and 
somehow given the Elan embodies 

1018
00:50:56,500 --> 00:50:59,700
the single class. 
He's supposed to count, you 

1019
00:50:59,700 --> 00:51:02,500
know, for so much. 
If he merits his placement in 

1020
00:51:02,500 --> 00:51:05,300
that class, you should show it 
by being an effective manager. 

1021
00:51:06,000 --> 00:51:09,700
Like if you deserve all of the 
The Privileges that come with 

1022
00:51:09,700 --> 00:51:13,200
being in the entrepreneurial 
class, show it, show me how 

1023
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:18,200
you've managed to will navigate 
this controversy in a way that 

1024
00:51:18,200 --> 00:51:20,200
proves your point. 
Because right now, it doesn't 

1025
00:51:20,200 --> 00:51:21,700
seem like there was a fucking 
plan. 

1026
00:51:22,100 --> 00:51:25,200
Like, I'm not sure that's the 
same big winfried ideology that 

1027
00:51:25,200 --> 00:51:28,100
comes through in the DMS. 
It's like, people are chill with

1028
00:51:28,100 --> 00:51:30,500
by Nance now because he's a 
winner and I'm a loser and 

1029
00:51:30,500 --> 00:51:33,900
ultimately people like winners 
and they don't like losers and 

1030
00:51:33,900 --> 00:51:36,900
like morality is almost like 
subservient to that. 

1031
00:51:36,900 --> 00:51:41,000
It's like you can say Shibboleth
the people want but ultimately 

1032
00:51:41,300 --> 00:51:43,400
you know you need to, you need 
to win. 

1033
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,700
Yeah. 
I mean I don't know that I think

1034
00:51:45,700 --> 00:51:47,100
by Nance is going to continue to
win. 

1035
00:51:47,100 --> 00:51:50,100
I think people have been a 
little too probe Finance lately,

1036
00:51:50,100 --> 00:51:53,700
but anyways, I mean being like 
the last person standing in a 

1037
00:51:53,700 --> 00:51:56,000
crumbling field, doesn't mean 
you're in a great position. 

1038
00:51:56,600 --> 00:51:59,500
No, I look, I actually think in 
in so many respects, I know. 

1039
00:51:59,500 --> 00:52:02,600
Like as the, the Twitter you'll 
on Twitter thing was closing in 

1040
00:52:02,600 --> 00:52:06,200
on taking place, your argument 
had been like, let's put the 

1041
00:52:06,200 --> 00:52:10,300
right ideas to the test. 
Yes, Let them rule, let's see it

1042
00:52:10,300 --> 00:52:12,600
like right, especially on 
Twitter where it's like, okay we

1043
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:14,700
can give that up. 
It's not like all of America, 

1044
00:52:14,700 --> 00:52:16,400
you know. 
I'm not saying let the right 

1045
00:52:16,500 --> 00:52:19,500
rule the United States but I am 
saying, fuck, give them Twitter 

1046
00:52:19,500 --> 00:52:22,400
and let's see it. 
Let's run it, run it, you know, 

1047
00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,400
like and so I'm actually willing
to like, let's let this 

1048
00:52:25,400 --> 00:52:26,900
experiment run a little bit 
longer. 

1049
00:52:26,900 --> 00:52:28,900
I think people that are talking 
about the death of Twitter right

1050
00:52:28,900 --> 00:52:30,400
now, are probably jumping the 
gun. 

1051
00:52:30,900 --> 00:52:33,000
They're seen by the enough money
questions on this is the 

1052
00:52:33,000 --> 00:52:36,600
question for the right if 
Twitter dies because like the 

1053
00:52:36,600 --> 00:52:40,500
left abandons and everybody, 
Using like the managerial class 

1054
00:52:40,500 --> 00:52:43,100
doesn't do the work. 
Whose fault is it? 

1055
00:52:43,100 --> 00:52:47,000
Like, I feel like, they somehow 
believe that it's still the left

1056
00:52:47,000 --> 00:52:49,700
fault, even though they're in 
charge of it, they had to pull 

1057
00:52:49,700 --> 00:52:54,100
the levers to make it work. 
If basically they lose because 

1058
00:52:54,100 --> 00:52:58,200
the left like mounts, a 
resistance does the right and 

1059
00:52:58,200 --> 00:53:02,300
Ilan sort of get off scot-free 
because right is going to blame 

1060
00:53:02,300 --> 00:53:04,100
the left. 
I think I'm saying that's what 

1061
00:53:04,100 --> 00:53:06,600
they're clearly starting to 
coalesce around that argument 

1062
00:53:06,700 --> 00:53:09,400
which is absurd right? 
Okay now Now, yeah, I mean, 

1063
00:53:09,500 --> 00:53:12,400
ultimately, you're in charge 
you, you're supposed to be Savvy

1064
00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:15,100
enough to know the psychology of
the left and manipulate it and 

1065
00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:17,900
get your ends. 
Like, you can't just whine and 

1066
00:53:17,900 --> 00:53:20,700
say, oh, these people are 
irrational like that. 

1067
00:53:20,700 --> 00:53:23,800
All you humans are rational, you
know, you have to navigate that 

1068
00:53:23,800 --> 00:53:26,000
that's part of part of 
leadership. 

1069
00:53:26,000 --> 00:53:28,300
Yeah. 
Because the prevailing sentiment

1070
00:53:28,300 --> 00:53:31,000
ality and posture that people 
want to take these days is the 

1071
00:53:31,000 --> 00:53:34,100
victim, doesn't matter what 
position you are in class and 

1072
00:53:34,100 --> 00:53:37,300
you know, in your business and 
your class you want to be the 

1073
00:53:37,300 --> 00:53:39,100
victim. 
It's the it's the Fault, Place, 

1074
00:53:39,100 --> 00:53:40,900
repeat, nobody wants to be the 
elite. 

1075
00:53:41,400 --> 00:53:43,000
You are literally running the 
company. 

1076
00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,200
You were signing the checks and 
yet you were the victim of a 

1077
00:53:46,200 --> 00:53:49,500
system that you have just now, 
declared or prior to now, 

1078
00:53:49,500 --> 00:53:53,000
declared as being anti Capital 
as an anti market. 

1079
00:53:53,200 --> 00:53:54,900
And I don't know what to tell 
you, buddy. 

1080
00:53:55,200 --> 00:53:56,700
You just bought the store, 
right? 

1081
00:53:56,700 --> 00:53:58,600
It's your problem. 
Yeah. 

1082
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:00,300
Figure it out. 
Stop whining. 

1083
00:54:00,300 --> 00:54:03,200
You know, like, pull yourself up
by your fucking bootstraps. 

1084
00:54:03,500 --> 00:54:06,000
Yeah. 
So let's just let this play out 

1085
00:54:06,000 --> 00:54:09,200
a little bit longer. 
You know, if Twitter Goes down, 

1086
00:54:09,300 --> 00:54:11,600
it would, I guess, prove 
someone's point, right? 

1087
00:54:11,700 --> 00:54:17,800
But, you know, I guess my my 
perspective is that Twitter will

1088
00:54:17,800 --> 00:54:22,100
probably be around for another 
couple of weeks, you know, the 

1089
00:54:22,100 --> 00:54:24,500
worst of the bloodline that will
pass. 

1090
00:54:24,500 --> 00:54:28,200
I think people's expectations 
for the implosion or too big. 

1091
00:54:28,200 --> 00:54:30,500
Especially the people who are 
leaving because they probably 

1092
00:54:30,500 --> 00:54:33,500
want to think man and masses of 
people around me, it's like, 

1093
00:54:33,500 --> 00:54:35,800
people should on the United 
States and then they go to Paris

1094
00:54:35,800 --> 00:54:38,100
and it's like it's dirty and 
they only have one Cuisine, you 

1095
00:54:38,100 --> 00:54:40,300
know. 
It's like New York's great. 

1096
00:54:40,300 --> 00:54:43,300
Like Twitter is better than the 
alternative unfortunately. 

1097
00:54:43,300 --> 00:54:45,700
Like that's the reality in the 
world in which you have to 

1098
00:54:45,700 --> 00:54:47,500
participate in these things, 
right? 

1099
00:54:47,500 --> 00:54:49,600
Well, don't go live in fucking 
Macon, Georgia. 

1100
00:54:49,600 --> 00:54:52,300
You know, I don't even know 
where to leave this one other 

1101
00:54:52,300 --> 00:54:54,900
than. 
I think this topic we extend an 

1102
00:54:54,900 --> 00:54:58,700
open invite to anyone who wants 
to explain elon's managerial 

1103
00:54:58,700 --> 00:55:01,100
style. 
I know, we like to fight I you 

1104
00:55:01,100 --> 00:55:07,000
think the cowardice from some on
on the right is z reached out to

1105
00:55:07,200 --> 00:55:09,400
not a small number of people. 
For this episode and we'll 

1106
00:55:09,400 --> 00:55:12,300
continue to going forward 
because I do believe it is a 

1107
00:55:12,300 --> 00:55:14,200
one-sided story. 
Being told right now, I'd love 

1108
00:55:14,200 --> 00:55:17,600
to hear the the pro Elon side. 
We maybe have some guests coming

1109
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,800
up, that can help a little bit 
on that perspective, but to all 

1110
00:55:20,800 --> 00:55:23,700
listening out there, if you have
some people that, you know, that

1111
00:55:23,700 --> 00:55:29,100
can speak positively and with 
personal anecdote on elon's 

1112
00:55:29,100 --> 00:55:32,000
leadership style, and why? 
It's great that we're open. 

1113
00:55:32,100 --> 00:55:34,700
Please email us. 
You know, DM won't, you can DM 

1114
00:55:34,700 --> 00:55:37,000
Eric, you can message me dead 
cat. 

1115
00:55:37,000 --> 00:55:39,600
Show at gmail.com. 
We want to hear from you. 

1116
00:55:40,300 --> 00:55:41,400
Great. 
All right. 

1117
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:42,800
This is fun. 
Thanks a bunch. 

1118
00:55:42,800 --> 00:55:45,600
Thanks, before we go, we do want
to give credits to the people 

1119
00:55:45,600 --> 00:55:47,900
that make the show possible 
because we do not do it enough. 

1120
00:55:47,900 --> 00:55:51,200
But engineering, the show is our
great new sound engineer, Tommy 

1121
00:55:51,200 --> 00:55:54,000
Heron, who is making this thing 
sound very professional. 

1122
00:55:54,000 --> 00:55:56,300
And then we've gotten can 
continue to get a lot of 

1123
00:55:56,300 --> 00:55:58,900
positive feedback on the theme 
song for the show. 

1124
00:55:59,300 --> 00:56:00,700
I agree with you. 
It is awesome. 

1125
00:56:00,700 --> 00:56:04,800
It is the work of young Chomsky 
who is a producer and audio 

1126
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,400
composer. 
He is the producer of the 

1127
00:56:07,400 --> 00:56:08,700
excellent podcast. 
True. 

1128
00:56:08,700 --> 00:56:12,300
And on which I do listen to, and
I don't want to get cancelled 

1129
00:56:12,300 --> 00:56:14,500
for that because I know they end
up being controversial times. 

1130
00:56:15,100 --> 00:56:17,800
I think it's great. 
But anyway, young Chomsky has 

1131
00:56:17,800 --> 00:56:20,900
the awesome theme song for this 
and we think both he and Tommy 

1132
00:56:20,900 --> 00:56:24,500
for making the show. 
Great, goodbye. 

1133
00:56:34,700 --> 00:56:37,400
Goodbye, goodbye. 
Goodbye, goodbye. 

1134
00:56:37,400 --> 00:56:38,300
Goodbye, goodbye.