1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:03,600 Those of us you know who ran search engines, we'd be on stage 2 00:00:03,600 --> 00:00:06,080 and, and and talking. But in the audience were all the 3 00:00:06,080 --> 00:00:09,480 spammers, all the. Whole SEO we take advantage. 4 00:00:09,480 --> 00:00:12,320 Of the whole SEO community and if you went outside or to the 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:16,280 bar afterwards, everyone's together and that game of trying 6 00:00:16,280 --> 00:00:19,680 to send traffic for their own purposes, that's not new. 7 00:00:19,800 --> 00:00:23,320 Why is Yahoo Finance still #1 why is Yahoo Sports top two? 8 00:00:23,400 --> 00:00:25,280 Why do so many people want aggregated news? 9 00:00:25,280 --> 00:00:26,720 And like, what can we do to lean into that? 10 00:00:26,720 --> 00:00:28,320 Why is Yahoo Mail still so popular? 11 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:30,920 And it it the spine of that book is is always goes back. 12 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:31,760 What is it? What's? 13 00:00:32,000 --> 00:00:35,280 The answer It always goes back to Jerry and David's original 14 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:37,360 founding of the company. They were trying to be the guide 15 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:38,960 to the Internet, but every now and then that is. 16 00:00:38,960 --> 00:00:42,040 The norm that is contrary. To OK, but think about why that 17 00:00:42,040 --> 00:00:44,160 happened. Everyone who was involved was 18 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:47,160 not a traditional search product manager or engineer. 19 00:00:47,520 --> 00:00:51,000 They all came out of academia and so the the UI, not 20 00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:54,080 surprisingly, looks like an academic research paper. 21 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:58,080 My guest today has been CEO of ask.com, CEO of Tinder, and now 22 00:00:58,080 --> 00:01:00,960 CEO of Yahoo. If you're sensing a theme, it's 23 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,800 that Jim Lanzone has spent his entire career betting on 24 00:01:03,800 --> 00:01:07,080 companies the Internet forgot about and making them matter 25 00:01:07,080 --> 00:01:08,920 again. The question is, can he do it 26 00:01:08,920 --> 00:01:12,120 one more time with guy closing in from every direction? 27 00:01:12,120 --> 00:01:14,320 Here's my conversation with Jim Lanzone. 28 00:01:22,080 --> 00:01:25,760 Search wars, the streaming wars and the search wars again. 29 00:01:25,760 --> 00:01:29,920 And I'm sure there are 50 other online wars you've been engaged 30 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:33,160 in. You're obviously running Yahoo. 31 00:01:33,160 --> 00:01:35,880 Some people remember it from there. 32 00:01:35,880 --> 00:01:38,640 You know, maybe me. My college e-mail I think was 33 00:01:38,680 --> 00:01:41,080 Elfman. I won't say the exact numbers, 34 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:44,440 Elfman something back in sort of a we'll go find AD and D type 35 00:01:44,440 --> 00:01:49,560 era of Eric Newcomer, but obviously still a huge Center 36 00:01:49,560 --> 00:01:52,560 for traffic. You're obviously doing a lot to 37 00:01:52,560 --> 00:01:56,680 stay current in the AI era, like where is just give us the 38 00:01:56,680 --> 00:02:00,080 snapshot of sort of Yahoo in terms of who's using it today. 39 00:02:00,400 --> 00:02:02,200 Yeah, I think it's it's surprising people for some 40 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,880 reason, even though, you know, Google is 28 years old and 41 00:02:05,880 --> 00:02:08,759 Amazon's also 30 years old. eBay, I think Twitter just had 42 00:02:08,759 --> 00:02:10,800 its 20th anniversary. Yeah. 43 00:02:10,800 --> 00:02:13,520 It's funny that Yahoo, probably just because the history of it 44 00:02:13,520 --> 00:02:16,640 like does kind of get talked about as being around a long 45 00:02:16,640 --> 00:02:19,120 time you. Know it defined 1. 46 00:02:19,680 --> 00:02:22,240 Era, it has had a lot of ups and downs and that's part of the 47 00:02:22,240 --> 00:02:24,000 story. And and you know, we can talk 48 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,000 about some of that. But the interesting thing about 49 00:02:26,000 --> 00:02:29,400 Yahoo is for all the corporate difficulties, you know, through 50 00:02:29,400 --> 00:02:32,800 time as a public company selling to Verizon, Then we bought it 51 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:35,480 and spun it back out at the end 2021 which. 52 00:02:35,480 --> 00:02:39,760 Seems like a good deal. Apollo got it for around 5 53 00:02:39,760 --> 00:02:44,760 billion after all that, so it is still today. 54 00:02:44,760 --> 00:02:48,600 Now Fast forward to 2026, in the last comScore rankings, we were 55 00:02:48,600 --> 00:02:50,680 third in the United States until traffic. 56 00:02:50,680 --> 00:02:54,560 We're almost 250 million users in the US, which is almost 90% 57 00:02:54,560 --> 00:03:00,800 of the US Interestingly, about 50% of our audience stays Gen. 58 00:03:00,800 --> 00:03:03,200 Z and Millennial. I think when you cover 90% of 59 00:03:03,200 --> 00:03:08,160 the US, you have to be that cover that broad of a group and 60 00:03:08,160 --> 00:03:10,040 that's actually our fastest growing group and things like 61 00:03:10,040 --> 00:03:12,520 Yahoo Mail, which you might associate as being an older 62 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:14,960 product for the Elf man and others. 63 00:03:16,080 --> 00:03:19,720 And it's about 700 million, you know, worldwide users and that 64 00:03:19,720 --> 00:03:22,000 that's after we've shut we actually got out of a lot of 65 00:03:22,000 --> 00:03:24,960 countries when I first got here and we were the turn around 66 00:03:24,960 --> 00:03:25,960 team. There were a lot of things that 67 00:03:25,960 --> 00:03:27,960 we had to do to kind of get the company on the right foot. 68 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:31,560 So we kind of got out of some countries that that weren't that 69 00:03:31,560 --> 00:03:35,560 didn't make sense. So it is still that big and the 70 00:03:35,560 --> 00:03:38,320 way we get to that size is different than a lot of you know 71 00:03:38,320 --> 00:03:41,160 there are a lot of companies that are one product companies, 72 00:03:41,160 --> 00:03:43,280 right you got. Finance, you've got sort of this 73 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:44,840 and. We are a conglomerate. 74 00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:46,520 They're, they're all Yahoo branded. 75 00:03:46,680 --> 00:03:49,120 And we, we did have some brands like AOL that, that were not 76 00:03:49,120 --> 00:03:52,560 Yahoo branded that we've sold along the way, but we are now 77 00:03:52,560 --> 00:03:56,240 all Yahoo branded. And yeah, finance, sports, mail, 78 00:03:56,560 --> 00:04:00,920 news is still top three things like weather are still, you 79 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,160 know, top five and still still very big properties. 80 00:04:03,800 --> 00:04:07,560 And then search, I think is, is still surprised that in the US 81 00:04:07,560 --> 00:04:08,880 we're still the third ranked search engine. 82 00:04:08,880 --> 00:04:12,640 Now that's that's far away from from Google, but but still a lot 83 00:04:12,640 --> 00:04:15,000 of traffic in a very, you know, lucrative category. 84 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:17,880 So we're all those things together kind of add up that the 85 00:04:17,880 --> 00:04:20,839 Yahoo brand itself doesn't mean one, there's not like, you know, 86 00:04:20,839 --> 00:04:24,400 just one property that yahoo.com, which we've kind of 87 00:04:24,400 --> 00:04:27,240 been working on over the past few years is a hub for all those 88 00:04:27,240 --> 00:04:28,960 things. But you know, again, there are 89 00:04:28,960 --> 00:04:31,800 many companies that just do one thing, and that's not us. 90 00:04:32,520 --> 00:04:35,000 Is and there are lots of pieces of it that I want to talk about 91 00:04:35,000 --> 00:04:38,760 you used to own tech crunch. You touch the news, obviously as 92 00:04:38,760 --> 00:04:40,120 a news person, it's interesting to me. 93 00:04:40,160 --> 00:04:43,920 I but you know, you Yahoo obviously fought with Google 94 00:04:44,200 --> 00:04:48,120 through search, made some, I guess failed partnership 95 00:04:48,120 --> 00:04:50,320 decisions. You've criticized them yourself. 96 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:51,840 What was what was the key mistake? 97 00:04:51,840 --> 00:04:53,560 It's sort of outsourced search, right? 98 00:04:53,760 --> 00:04:55,800 Well, it's the interesting thing is Yahoo has always talked about 99 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,080 as having lost search to Google and, and kind of shit on for 100 00:04:59,080 --> 00:05:01,600 that and talked about what, what you shouldn't do strategically, 101 00:05:01,600 --> 00:05:03,600 but that's not actually what happened. 102 00:05:03,600 --> 00:05:06,480 And again, that's 26 years since this happened. 103 00:05:06,480 --> 00:05:10,200 And, and it was before many generations of Yahoo, let alone 104 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:13,960 mine. But from the beginning, 1995, it 105 00:05:13,960 --> 00:05:17,720 always Yahoo always outsourced search, interestingly, because I 106 00:05:17,720 --> 00:05:21,680 think they helped popularize search, but that search box was 107 00:05:21,680 --> 00:05:23,880 outsourced through enterprise deals. 108 00:05:23,880 --> 00:05:26,920 So I can't remember who it initially was, but it became ink 109 00:05:26,920 --> 00:05:29,600 to me. And then during the crash 110 00:05:29,600 --> 00:05:33,680 period, during the first web, you know, one point O crash in 111 00:05:33,680 --> 00:05:36,480 June of 2000, which is kind of the big month that it really 112 00:05:36,480 --> 00:05:38,720 felt everything fell apart for the industry. 113 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:42,520 They switched to Google because it was the best search engine 114 00:05:42,720 --> 00:05:45,960 and that became the enterprise solution for Yahoo Search. 115 00:05:46,640 --> 00:05:49,400 The big mistake that was made is that in order to save money and 116 00:05:49,400 --> 00:05:54,680 get a better deal, they gave Google a link back to Google on 117 00:05:54,680 --> 00:05:57,760 every search results page. That was the Google logo. 118 00:05:57,880 --> 00:06:00,360 So if you did a search on Yahoo and you clicked on that logo, it 119 00:06:00,360 --> 00:06:03,720 would do the search on Google. And so people just they're. 120 00:06:03,720 --> 00:06:06,440 Training people just go. Oh my, I've said it's it's 121 00:06:06,440 --> 00:06:10,720 almost like Chacha PT or clawed having a logo on every Google 122 00:06:10,720 --> 00:06:13,800 search results page now you know, they would. 123 00:06:13,840 --> 00:06:18,000 So that's that, that kicked off, you know, I think, you know, a 124 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:20,280 couple decades of trying to figure out, you know, how to 125 00:06:20,280 --> 00:06:23,600 make up for that because Google, you know, search became, you 126 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:25,880 know, the, the best revenue model that you could possibly 127 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:27,320 have. But in June of 2000, there 128 00:06:27,320 --> 00:06:28,040 wasn't one. Right. 129 00:06:28,040 --> 00:06:30,640 And you can see the philosophy. It's like we link out to news 130 00:06:30,640 --> 00:06:34,040 organizations where helpful. We we get people to go to the 131 00:06:34,040 --> 00:06:36,960 place we trust where you know, yeah, where the portal. 132 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,360 But obviously in retrospect, a huge strategic error. 133 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,360 So, you know, you're not even thinking probably about the 134 00:06:44,360 --> 00:06:47,720 company at the time, but now, you know, you run the company 135 00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:51,200 that made that decision. So now we enter the chatbot era. 136 00:06:51,200 --> 00:06:56,480 Like do you think first of all, does the chat bot replace the 137 00:06:56,480 --> 00:07:00,040 Internet or where, how much of sort of Internet activity do you 138 00:07:00,040 --> 00:07:04,520 think will, you know in a decade flow through me talking to a 139 00:07:04,600 --> 00:07:10,400 sort of an AI chat bot? Yeah, I mean, I'd say still 140 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:14,000 somewhat unclear. It's, it's a bit of a misnomer 141 00:07:14,000 --> 00:07:18,120 to say that finally now going beyond 10 blue links in my, my 142 00:07:18,120 --> 00:07:20,920 first run through search, you know, I spent my first ten years 143 00:07:20,920 --> 00:07:23,880 in or so in search. That was when we really went 144 00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,280 beyond 10 blue links. It was literally 10 links. 145 00:07:26,280 --> 00:07:28,680 Alta Vista kind of popularized that UI. 146 00:07:28,680 --> 00:07:32,680 Google picked it up from there. And then in the mid 2000s, we 147 00:07:32,680 --> 00:07:35,440 all started building structured data search into the page. 148 00:07:35,440 --> 00:07:37,680 So if you think about like. You're getting answers. 149 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:42,640 Whether lyrics, sports scores, you know, multimedia, these 150 00:07:42,640 --> 00:07:45,760 things all started to have local information maps. 151 00:07:45,760 --> 00:07:47,160 They all started happening over time. 152 00:07:48,200 --> 00:07:52,880 So it's interesting now that area is popular, you know on 153 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:56,720 Google is populated by AI mode. So now you're kind of getting 154 00:07:57,000 --> 00:08:00,280 chatbot responses, which are their own flavor of search. 155 00:08:00,280 --> 00:08:02,400 They're not, they don't replace all of search. 156 00:08:03,720 --> 00:08:07,560 And I think this next step of a gentic, which is still very 157 00:08:07,560 --> 00:08:12,440 early, I think thinking about the the search box as the 158 00:08:12,880 --> 00:08:16,160 interface for doing anything probably does make a lot of 159 00:08:16,160 --> 00:08:17,520 sense. Interestingly, because that's 160 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,280 where everything started. If you think about how Yahoo 161 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:23,600 started in 1995, it was a directory that then led to news 162 00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,400 and mail and fancy sports and other things coming into that 163 00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,760 becoming the portal. But it started with the search 164 00:08:28,760 --> 00:08:31,360 box. And to think that all the way 165 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:35,039 through now, 30 years later, that search box is about to 166 00:08:35,039 --> 00:08:38,640 become the Iron Man suit and and power everything that you might 167 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:41,720 be able to do to do is really interesting. 168 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:43,640 I do, I do think it tends to go that way. 169 00:08:43,799 --> 00:08:47,440 And you see that now where WhatsApp has a chatbot, you 170 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,440 know, built in, Snap has it built in. 171 00:08:50,440 --> 00:08:52,760 So it's that is starting to happen. 172 00:08:52,760 --> 00:08:55,160 And what that turns into, I think is still to be written to. 173 00:08:55,160 --> 00:08:58,320 Defend the portal. My problem with chat bots is 174 00:08:58,320 --> 00:09:01,680 that I need to have an idea of what I want to do and it's sort 175 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:05,120 of like I really need to have a plan and really sort of pursue 176 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:07,120 something. There's value to be like, oh, 177 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:10,160 what's going on? Like give me, give me sort of a 178 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,040 picture of it. Like do you think sort of the, I 179 00:09:13,880 --> 00:09:15,760 mean, you're, you're sort of playing both in that you're 180 00:09:15,760 --> 00:09:18,000 making sure you're in a good position on chat bots and you 181 00:09:18,000 --> 00:09:20,640 obviously have the the key portal strategy. 182 00:09:20,640 --> 00:09:24,440 But do you think the regular consumer is going to want this 183 00:09:24,440 --> 00:09:27,600 chat bot all the time for all their sort of like information 184 00:09:27,600 --> 00:09:29,680 needs? Or is that is it too much work 185 00:09:29,680 --> 00:09:33,640 to ask the news consumer I. Think people in our industry 186 00:09:33,640 --> 00:09:37,880 can, especially everyone who's building all night now, you 187 00:09:37,880 --> 00:09:41,600 know, with all these new tools that are coming, you know, are 188 00:09:41,600 --> 00:09:46,600 available, do forget how much the industry itself is, is not 189 00:09:46,600 --> 00:09:48,880 the same as your average user out on the street. 190 00:09:49,280 --> 00:09:51,920 So those people do tend to want things done for them. 191 00:09:51,920 --> 00:09:55,160 They want things that are free. They don't want to put in the 192 00:09:55,160 --> 00:09:57,240 extra effort. I mean, if I go back to web one 193 00:09:57,240 --> 00:10:02,480 point O search, my favorite was that 85% of users if you 194 00:10:02,480 --> 00:10:05,280 surveyed them said they wanted advanced search, which you 195 00:10:05,280 --> 00:10:06,560 probably don't remember what that is. 196 00:10:06,560 --> 00:10:08,720 It was boolean. Search I remember. 197 00:10:09,400 --> 00:10:12,440 One less than 1% used it. They they said they wanted but 198 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,240 they want the power. It didn't actually they, they 199 00:10:14,240 --> 00:10:18,240 want and we've all put in a lot of effort in that day and age 200 00:10:18,240 --> 00:10:22,400 into thinking about how to get, you know, them to construct 201 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,240 queries a certain way. And that all went away. 202 00:10:24,560 --> 00:10:27,720 It just became go to the search box, spit it out. 203 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:30,560 And it's up to us on the other side of that box to deal with 204 00:10:30,560 --> 00:10:32,880 it. And I do think, especially when 205 00:10:32,880 --> 00:10:34,880 it comes to search, that that's where it's going to head. 206 00:10:34,880 --> 00:10:38,800 And and we could talk about it, but we, you know, you know, a 207 00:10:38,800 --> 00:10:42,120 month and a half ago launched our own AI search product called 208 00:10:42,200 --> 00:10:44,960 Yahoo Scout. And to your point in the portal, 209 00:10:44,960 --> 00:10:50,000 we also just launched last week the next generation of what used 210 00:10:50,000 --> 00:10:53,400 to be known as my Yahoo, which was very popular Silk high value 211 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,040 product, which is your own personalized version of the 212 00:10:56,040 --> 00:10:57,960 Yahoo portal. I feel like I had all these 213 00:10:58,000 --> 00:10:59,120 different colors. Yeah. 214 00:10:59,120 --> 00:11:00,960 And people loved it and they could move things around on the 215 00:11:00,960 --> 00:11:05,640 page and but that was done in a very rudimentary, you know, old 216 00:11:05,640 --> 00:11:07,880 school way. But it was popular. 217 00:11:07,880 --> 00:11:11,040 We had to shut that down when I got here because the the 218 00:11:11,200 --> 00:11:14,800 platform it was built on was so old that to upgrade it was just 219 00:11:14,800 --> 00:11:17,400 going to be just incredibly expensive. 220 00:11:17,400 --> 00:11:20,360 And we just decided to build it over again, knowing that AI was 221 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:23,520 on the way. So we just last week launched my 222 00:11:23,520 --> 00:11:26,960 Scout, which looks a lot like the old my Yahoo, but it is it 223 00:11:26,960 --> 00:11:31,560 is built by and on top of our AI search platform. 224 00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:37,200 So it it automatically builds for you on on the page and just 225 00:11:37,200 --> 00:11:41,280 by querying, you know, querying scout, you can actually create 226 00:11:41,280 --> 00:11:45,000 your own categories. So anything you want can now 227 00:11:45,000 --> 00:11:48,200 become a tile for your own personalized portal on the page. 228 00:11:48,360 --> 00:11:50,280 Right. So it's not the chatbot can help 229 00:11:50,280 --> 00:11:52,960 you sort of have defaults and you can already see sometimes 230 00:11:52,960 --> 00:11:56,640 with Chachi BT, they're like suggesting questions you can ask 231 00:11:56,640 --> 00:11:59,960 like it's clear that all that's yeah, that's different than just 232 00:11:59,960 --> 00:12:01,480 like a portal you go to, but well. 233 00:12:01,640 --> 00:12:04,640 And also they're, they are limited to date by what the, the 234 00:12:04,640 --> 00:12:08,600 thing they know about you is your search history. 235 00:12:09,160 --> 00:12:11,600 And so Pulse, which is their first product was very much 236 00:12:11,600 --> 00:12:13,760 based on the searches you've been doing. 237 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,680 Oh, do you want to know how to become a better CEO of Yahoo? 238 00:12:16,680 --> 00:12:19,280 How do you about these, these health issues you've asked me 239 00:12:19,280 --> 00:12:21,440 about, you know, whatever these things are going on with your 240 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:23,480 kids, like whatever you've been asking is kind of what they 241 00:12:23,480 --> 00:12:26,880 suggest up in their portal. We do have a built in advantage 242 00:12:26,880 --> 00:12:30,120 in that if if you are a logged in Yahoo user and over 70% of 243 00:12:30,120 --> 00:12:34,280 our users are logged in on any given day, we start to populate 244 00:12:34,280 --> 00:12:35,840 it automatically with Yahoo Finance. 245 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:37,840 You know, with stock quotes, with sports scores, with 246 00:12:37,840 --> 00:12:40,800 headlines, with your mail, all those things, your, your 247 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,800 location, your weather, they all automatically populate and then 248 00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,480 you can add categories onto it from from there. 249 00:12:47,840 --> 00:12:50,880 All right, so you're, you're preparing for new fronts right 250 00:12:50,880 --> 00:12:53,840 now, which we are. You know what, you, you, I, I 251 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,920 never covered like the media streaming wars. 252 00:12:55,920 --> 00:12:59,200 I, it was very important, I think in the, the peak streaming 253 00:12:59,200 --> 00:13:02,160 days, but it's, it's a moment to talk to advertisers. 254 00:13:02,800 --> 00:13:05,360 I, I imagine it's especially interesting with open AI mean 255 00:13:05,360 --> 00:13:08,520 like we want to get into advertising your sort of, you 256 00:13:08,520 --> 00:13:11,200 know, have more and more of an AI pitch. 257 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:14,080 Like what is the dynamic in new fronts broadly today? 258 00:13:14,080 --> 00:13:16,400 Like what do you think the key themes that people are grabbing 259 00:13:16,400 --> 00:13:18,160 onto? And and then we can talk about 260 00:13:18,160 --> 00:13:20,920 Yahoo specifically. I mean, I think different for 261 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,280 everybody. The way the way the new fronts 262 00:13:22,280 --> 00:13:27,520 started many years ago was to give online streamers and I used 263 00:13:27,520 --> 00:13:31,240 to work at CBS and and we had CBS All Access, which became 264 00:13:31,240 --> 00:13:33,040 Paramount Plus. We had our own version of this, 265 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:34,720 but it was built on, not. Just workout. 266 00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:35,960 I think you're a pretty important guy. 267 00:13:36,400 --> 00:13:40,360 I ran digital for them. So, but they, you know, for 268 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,520 decades they had the upfronts, which, which was, you know, for 269 00:13:43,520 --> 00:13:47,040 CBS, we had Carnegie Hall and, and the whole AG community would 270 00:13:47,040 --> 00:13:49,640 come in and you would, you would tell them the new shows for the 271 00:13:49,640 --> 00:13:53,200 next fall season and all the stars would show up and they'd 272 00:13:53,200 --> 00:13:55,880 have a party afterwards and they would be there to take photos. 273 00:13:56,600 --> 00:13:59,200 I think they called it the petting zoo where you would 274 00:13:59,200 --> 00:14:01,560 have, you would have the logos over every show and all the 275 00:14:01,560 --> 00:14:03,600 stars would be there to take photos with all the press and 276 00:14:03,600 --> 00:14:05,840 all the advertisers that would be in attendance. 277 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,640 The new fronts was a version of that for Hulu and YouTube and 278 00:14:09,080 --> 00:14:11,800 and Netflix, you know eventually once they had advertising and 279 00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:14,320 others. So yahoos version of that is a 280 00:14:14,320 --> 00:14:18,000 little bit different because we do have shows so but they are 281 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:22,080 very much part of our verticals. So for sports and for finance, 282 00:14:22,080 --> 00:14:26,000 we have nonfiction content that is, you know, really trying to 283 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:29,040 help you with the decisions you're making, the goals you're 284 00:14:29,040 --> 00:14:30,760 trying to achieve in those categories. 285 00:14:30,880 --> 00:14:33,480 So they're we're, we're not breaking news, we're not getting 286 00:14:33,480 --> 00:14:36,560 scoops. We are providing context in that 287 00:14:36,560 --> 00:14:38,880 category. So we have Kevin O'Connor, who's 288 00:14:38,880 --> 00:14:41,280 the number one NBA podcast. We have Ariel Helwani, who's the 289 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:45,720 number one MMA podcast, and Brian Sauzi and our our people 290 00:14:45,720 --> 00:14:50,040 on on Yahoo Finance and others. So we do about 60 hours a week 291 00:14:50,040 --> 00:14:52,640 of original programming now for sports, almost that much for 292 00:14:52,640 --> 00:14:55,520 finance. But for the most part, we also 293 00:14:55,520 --> 00:14:57,840 have, you know, this whole network of other products, 294 00:14:57,840 --> 00:14:59,400 right? We're a product company at the 295 00:14:59,400 --> 00:15:02,560 end of the day. And so our new front is really 296 00:15:02,560 --> 00:15:05,160 talking about all the new products that we're launching 297 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,600 with the new Yahoo, all the things that have evolved in our 298 00:15:08,800 --> 00:15:10,400 audience. You guys are everybody's doing. 299 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,320 Them this is just your own individual. 300 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,360 OK, but do they happen? They all happen. 301 00:15:14,360 --> 00:15:17,440 Around different places. You all rent out CBS in the old 302 00:15:17,440 --> 00:15:19,040 days. It's the same period of time. 303 00:15:19,080 --> 00:15:21,160 Everybody's sort of NBC V Radio City. 304 00:15:21,400 --> 00:15:24,720 You would all have. So we have a place a few blocks 305 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:28,200 away from here in midtown and tomorrow night at six O clock to 306 00:15:28,280 --> 00:15:32,400 8:00 PM we will have two dedicated hours for Yahoo with 307 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,160 me kicking it off. Somehow been convinced to wear a 308 00:15:36,680 --> 00:15:41,720 cowboy outfit on stage to start it off in the big opening and 309 00:15:41,880 --> 00:15:44,640 all our GMs get up and talk about all the all the parts of 310 00:15:44,640 --> 00:15:47,160 the company. Are you optimistic about 311 00:15:47,160 --> 00:15:50,440 advertising in language models in chat bots? 312 00:15:51,280 --> 00:15:53,000 Well, that one's a different. That's a whole new thing. 313 00:15:53,000 --> 00:15:57,360 Well, I just think I'm talking. Like advertisers on the mind 314 00:15:57,640 --> 00:15:59,720 that's, that's just a big question right now so. 315 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:03,680 Yeah, we can. In way back in the day, my 316 00:16:03,680 --> 00:16:06,120 company, we were the first ones to switch from Overture to 317 00:16:06,120 --> 00:16:08,440 Google Adwords. Like I go way back in in the 318 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:14,120 search category and I'm very passionate that that search 319 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:19,640 advertising does need to cross the chasm to AI search in that 320 00:16:19,680 --> 00:16:23,160 while it won't be one for one efficient, meaning, you know, 321 00:16:23,160 --> 00:16:26,560 keyword targeted link blue links that look just like the 322 00:16:27,040 --> 00:16:29,760 editorial links. We're a great business model 323 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:34,120 for, you know, 25 years now. It will look a little bit 324 00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:37,680 different and probably will be somewhat less efficient in this 325 00:16:37,680 --> 00:16:39,480 new UI. But I think actually the 326 00:16:39,480 --> 00:16:42,280 characteristics of the two are actually more similar than 327 00:16:42,280 --> 00:16:44,040 people would think. And there's a little work that 328 00:16:44,040 --> 00:16:46,480 needs to be done to, to bring them over and how you're going 329 00:16:46,480 --> 00:16:48,360 to match keywords and how you're going to render it. 330 00:16:48,880 --> 00:16:52,040 But I actually think, you know, this new environment will be 331 00:16:52,040 --> 00:16:56,040 more similar to to traditional search than people think in, in 332 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:59,920 that way. With Yahoo Scout, we actually 333 00:16:59,920 --> 00:17:03,000 one of the core values of the product has been that 334 00:17:03,640 --> 00:17:07,480 forgetting, sorry, forgetting a very Italian with how I'm 335 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:13,200 talking, forgetting, you know, the, the search advertising part 336 00:17:13,200 --> 00:17:17,160 of it for editorial for, you know, you know, just the 337 00:17:17,160 --> 00:17:20,839 traditional listings themselves for the results themselves. 338 00:17:21,400 --> 00:17:23,800 What we've done with Scout is we've actually put a lot of work 339 00:17:23,800 --> 00:17:25,960 into linking back out to publishers. 340 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:31,760 So all in our results, which if you go to scout.com, you'll find 341 00:17:32,040 --> 00:17:35,400 our own, you know, Yahoo powered AI search products. 342 00:17:35,720 --> 00:17:38,360 The results are really good. They're really unique and I can 343 00:17:38,360 --> 00:17:41,600 talk about why that is, but also in the UI you'll see a lot of 344 00:17:41,600 --> 00:17:45,200 blue highlights all through. And that's what publishers like 345 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:47,880 me want, right? We want the old world where it's 346 00:17:47,880 --> 00:17:51,000 like send us traffic. And in some ways you're sort of 347 00:17:51,000 --> 00:17:53,840 saying that aligns with advertisers because they would 348 00:17:53,840 --> 00:17:57,320 like people to actually go to their sites, Whereas the, the 349 00:17:57,320 --> 00:18:01,240 sort of ethos of a chat bot is the answer is here. 350 00:18:01,240 --> 00:18:04,440 And so I guess, do you think, well, you, you maybe disagree 351 00:18:04,440 --> 00:18:07,320 with that, but that is certainly the big, you know, anthropic 352 00:18:07,320 --> 00:18:10,480 open AI, they are trying to solve the problem in the box. 353 00:18:10,480 --> 00:18:14,920 Like, do you think that type of ad will send people elsewhere or 354 00:18:14,920 --> 00:18:17,480 advertisers are going to need to be content with? 355 00:18:18,080 --> 00:18:21,200 Well, they got exposure to me sort of in in this context, They 356 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:23,120 didn't necessarily go to my website. 357 00:18:23,240 --> 00:18:26,320 We'll start with our editorial results at Scout. 358 00:18:26,320 --> 00:18:31,040 They link elsewhere so our results are by paragraph, but 359 00:18:31,040 --> 00:18:33,720 every now. And then contrary. 360 00:18:33,720 --> 00:18:35,440 To it, OK, but think about why that happened. 361 00:18:35,520 --> 00:18:36,960 So first of all, let's start here. 362 00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:40,160 It's extremely important to link out to the publishers who 363 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:41,920 created this content in the 1st place. 364 00:18:42,120 --> 00:18:45,200 Without it, whether you're a large language model or anybody 365 00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:49,920 else, you won't have any content to bring together in a answer to 366 00:18:49,920 --> 00:18:51,560 provide value to the user, right? 367 00:18:51,880 --> 00:18:55,720 So those publishers surviving and thriving is extremely 368 00:18:55,720 --> 00:18:59,160 important to everyone involved. Why didn't that happen with the 369 00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,960 first generation of chatbot AI search results? 370 00:19:04,400 --> 00:19:06,120 I just don't think they prioritized it. 371 00:19:06,160 --> 00:19:09,520 Everyone who was involved was not a traditional search product 372 00:19:09,520 --> 00:19:12,680 manager or engineer. They all came out of academia, 373 00:19:12,880 --> 00:19:14,720 right? Whether they were deep mind and, 374 00:19:14,720 --> 00:19:17,480 and or then went to open AI, that was their background. 375 00:19:17,480 --> 00:19:21,080 And so the, the UI, not surprisingly, looks like an 376 00:19:21,080 --> 00:19:24,360 academic research paper. And they were, they had sources 377 00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,040 at the end that were, you know, footnotes essentially that you 378 00:19:27,040 --> 00:19:30,440 would find in a research paper. And so not surprisingly, they're 379 00:19:30,440 --> 00:19:34,080 not very prominent in the UI. Not that many people click on 380 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:35,280 them. I mean, I think it's less than 381 00:19:35,280 --> 00:19:40,080 like 1% of, you know, AI search results in a Click to one of 382 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:44,680 those sources. And I think that was just a, you 383 00:19:44,680 --> 00:19:47,640 know, trick of how the UI of this first generation was done. 384 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:50,960 Google was caught flat footed, I think by the launch of Chacha 385 00:19:50,960 --> 00:19:54,120 PT. And of course, because they are 386 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,800 by far number one in search, they had to counter that UI that 387 00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,520 Chachu is helping define, define the category. 388 00:20:02,080 --> 00:20:05,480 So whether or not they wanted to embrace it or or not, they they 389 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:07,800 had to. And so that's why Gemini's 390 00:20:07,800 --> 00:20:11,880 first, you know, version of this looks like that with Scout, we 391 00:20:11,880 --> 00:20:13,680 are trying to take it a different direction. 392 00:20:13,880 --> 00:20:17,240 We're much smaller. We have less at stake. 393 00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,520 And we I think have have the luxury of being able to employ a 394 00:20:22,520 --> 00:20:25,120 different UI and kind of help show the way on that. 395 00:20:26,120 --> 00:20:30,400 I do think eventually all AI chat bots need to for the their 396 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,240 own good meaning like being able to monetize without subscription 397 00:20:35,320 --> 00:20:36,600 because that's not going to get you all the way. 398 00:20:36,600 --> 00:20:41,200 There are going to need to find a way to link out both because 399 00:20:41,200 --> 00:20:43,280 it's good for the health of the Internet, good for the health of 400 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:45,360 publishers without whom we won't have this content. 401 00:20:45,640 --> 00:20:48,040 And then, yeah, I do think that there will be paid versions of 402 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:52,520 that that will look and operate somewhat like traditional search 403 00:20:52,520 --> 00:20:54,880 advertising. And without linking out, you 404 00:20:54,880 --> 00:20:56,960 won't be able to do that either. Right. 405 00:20:57,160 --> 00:21:00,360 I, I never, I hadn't connected the publisher piece to the 406 00:21:00,360 --> 00:21:03,040 advertising piece. That gives me the most hope that 407 00:21:03,040 --> 00:21:05,920 these models need to push out a little bit because they're going 408 00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:07,400 to need to push out for their advertisers. 409 00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:12,080 And so maybe then they push out. So I, I can see that, but I 410 00:21:12,080 --> 00:21:14,640 don't know, the tech industry has gotten so extractive like 411 00:21:14,640 --> 00:21:17,880 this, this view that you're articulating of we need to take 412 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:21,120 care of the underlying like media organizations or content 413 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:24,800 providers so that we have the content to aggregate that. 414 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:28,560 That does seem like sort of the Yahoo Spirit like of yesteryear, 415 00:21:28,560 --> 00:21:30,880 but it feels like that's sort of been forgotten in a world where 416 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:33,040 Google is just not linking to any. 417 00:21:33,040 --> 00:21:35,640 Like, I don't, I don't know, I don't see the rest of the tech 418 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:40,000 industry embracing that sort of we need to maintain sort of all 419 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:41,840 the fuel that we're using underneath. 420 00:21:42,160 --> 00:21:44,920 Well, I think another thing will drive them that way, which is I 421 00:21:44,920 --> 00:21:48,480 think it will wind up being shown over time that it is 422 00:21:48,480 --> 00:21:53,040 better for users as well to have the sources show up more 423 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,160 prominently. In our case, not only do the 424 00:21:55,160 --> 00:21:57,920 blue highlights are they linking out, but if you hover over them, 425 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:01,200 you see the source. And that's just extremely useful 426 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:03,160 for someone, you know, doing the research. 427 00:22:03,520 --> 00:22:05,200 As you know, these things hallucinate. 428 00:22:05,200 --> 00:22:06,680 They're not they're, they're dated. 429 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:09,040 Sometimes they don't always provide the right information 430 00:22:09,840 --> 00:22:11,880 depending on the category and the number one category for 431 00:22:11,880 --> 00:22:15,040 Yahoo Scout so far, you know, only a month and 1/2 in is 432 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,280 health. You do want to validate these 433 00:22:17,280 --> 00:22:21,240 sources and not just take for granted that the engine will is 434 00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:24,480 providing an accurate result. So I actually think it's good 435 00:22:24,480 --> 00:22:26,680 for publishers. I think it's good from a 436 00:22:26,680 --> 00:22:29,480 monetization point of view, but I think most importantly, in a 437 00:22:29,480 --> 00:22:33,640 lot of ways it's better for the user as well just because it 438 00:22:33,640 --> 00:22:35,840 has, it is still early. We're still only three years 439 00:22:35,840 --> 00:22:40,520 into this, and that UI that has become the default I, I, you 440 00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:44,480 know, was a, you know, a fluke of how it was launched. 441 00:22:44,480 --> 00:22:46,600 I mean, I don't even think they anticipate how popular it was 442 00:22:46,600 --> 00:22:48,000 going to be if you go back and do this. 443 00:22:48,200 --> 00:22:50,920 Yeah, you know. Everybody, yeah, I'll ChatGPT. 444 00:22:50,920 --> 00:22:52,520 I was like Oh my God. Wow, this is crazy. 445 00:22:52,520 --> 00:22:55,480 That's right. And so, so that's, that isn't 446 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,400 the UI that had to, you know, that had to be. 447 00:22:58,400 --> 00:23:00,520 And I don't think it's what Google would have launched if 448 00:23:00,520 --> 00:23:02,080 they had come out the gates first. 449 00:23:02,360 --> 00:23:05,800 Do you have a view on how copyrights going to net out? 450 00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,560 I mean, the Trump administration just put out their sort of AI 451 00:23:09,960 --> 00:23:11,960 guidelines, which I thought were somewhat thin. 452 00:23:11,960 --> 00:23:13,480 I don't have a full view on all of them. 453 00:23:13,480 --> 00:23:16,840 But one of them was sort of like, we should let the courts, 454 00:23:16,840 --> 00:23:18,920 I guess, decide on copyright. Like, we're not going to come 455 00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:20,960 down super hard. And that that's going to play 456 00:23:20,960 --> 00:23:23,800 out if it's into what we were talking about, just because if 457 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:27,040 you're not, if you're not emphasizing pushing people to 458 00:23:27,040 --> 00:23:30,560 links, it feels more and more like you're just stealing their 459 00:23:30,560 --> 00:23:32,520 IP if you're just using it for your own answer. 460 00:23:32,520 --> 00:23:36,120 Like, have you done an analysis on how much you think sort of 461 00:23:36,120 --> 00:23:39,240 models could get hit with copyright at the end of this or 462 00:23:39,400 --> 00:23:42,080 they're just too ubiquitous and they've just won by being like, 463 00:23:42,080 --> 00:23:44,200 so dominant? Yeah, I'm not. 464 00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:46,840 Yeah, not a lawyer. Just play one on TVI. 465 00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:49,960 Have lawyers running around. Well, it's interesting. 466 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:56,000 I mean, I do think that for 30 years the social contract of the 467 00:23:56,000 --> 00:24:00,120 Internet and of search was that a search engine would crawl you 468 00:24:00,240 --> 00:24:03,000 unless you with robots TXT you decide you didn't want to be 469 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:05,440 crawled for whatever reason. And then search engines 470 00:24:05,440 --> 00:24:07,160 respected that or were supposed to. 471 00:24:08,520 --> 00:24:10,920 And that the social contract was that they would take a snippet 472 00:24:11,240 --> 00:24:13,640 and the link and they would link back out to you. 473 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:17,040 And then if you wanted to have other information like, you 474 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:20,200 know, lyrics, you would actually or, or images, you would acquire 475 00:24:20,200 --> 00:24:23,200 those from a structured data provider and then you would add 476 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:26,720 those to the to the page. So, but the reason you wanted to 477 00:24:26,720 --> 00:24:28,840 be crawled and you want it was you want traffic. 478 00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,280 And that was how you had a business so that you could keep 479 00:24:31,280 --> 00:24:33,800 creating that content. So if you start to go to a world 480 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:39,800 where that content is is taken, digested and interestingly, not 481 00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,440 even for the answers, but to be able to predict it's auto 482 00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:47,080 complete, you know, to predict the next word or a letter or 483 00:24:47,080 --> 00:24:49,760 token. I mean, it's just, you know, 484 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,960 that was never contemplated when you were coming up with this. 485 00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:56,280 And I feel for the companies who are really based on Evergreen 486 00:24:56,280 --> 00:24:58,720 content. You know, with Yahoo, we are one 487 00:24:58,720 --> 00:25:03,040 of the top 20 publishers whose, you know, content shows up in an 488 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,920 LLM. So we are on weirdly on both 489 00:25:05,920 --> 00:25:08,520 sides of this. With deals you struck or just. 490 00:25:08,560 --> 00:25:11,040 No, no, no. They're just taking, yeah. 491 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:13,600 We are not suing over it. No, we haven't. 492 00:25:13,600 --> 00:25:16,040 We have not. We've not done that at this 493 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,960 point, but. You know when the you have a 494 00:25:18,960 --> 00:25:20,960 clock, you're like, oh, we have to decide by. 495 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,960 No, I mean it's, it's, you know, it's interesting that that even 496 00:25:25,960 --> 00:25:28,440 the people who are being paid don't believe that they're going 497 00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:30,480 to be able to make enough of a living that way. 498 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:33,320 So that's the other interesting thing happening here. 499 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:37,920 I think only 20% saw a survey. Only 20% of publishers believe 500 00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:41,120 that they can they can make enough money by selling their 501 00:25:41,120 --> 00:25:43,120 content to large language models. 502 00:25:43,800 --> 00:25:46,240 Well, like. The publish some publishers 503 00:25:46,360 --> 00:25:48,720 struck what seemed like a huge deal with Anthropic. 504 00:25:48,720 --> 00:25:50,920 I don't know the numbers, but then if you look on a per book 505 00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:53,200 basis, it's it's not like you could write books for a living. 506 00:25:53,200 --> 00:25:54,760 Just being like, Oh well, this book is going to well. 507 00:25:54,760 --> 00:25:56,120 That's books. I mean just talk about web 508 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,280 publishers. I mean, 10s of 1,000,000 is 509 00:25:58,280 --> 00:26:00,840 probably not going to cut it for the, the level of businesses 510 00:26:00,840 --> 00:26:02,760 that, that these companies are running. 511 00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:06,320 So something else has to happen. I, I believe what needs to 512 00:26:06,320 --> 00:26:10,880 happen is, is they need to, before it's too late, do the 513 00:26:10,880 --> 00:26:13,160 right thing and link out and do the, let's do the right thing 514 00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:15,280 for the users and do the right thing for publishers. 515 00:26:15,280 --> 00:26:17,640 So let's start with trying to get there first, you know, 516 00:26:17,640 --> 00:26:20,560 before we worry about, you know, just just throwing in the towel 517 00:26:20,560 --> 00:26:22,720 and, and saying this is the way it's always going to be. 518 00:26:23,640 --> 00:26:26,280 But I, I really, you know, again, it's not just Pollyanna 519 00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:29,480 like, Hey, let's do this and try to be good, the good guys here. 520 00:26:30,600 --> 00:26:33,480 We are trying to be the good guys on that for sure. 521 00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:35,400 We think it's the right thing to do. 522 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,920 But I also really do find it really valuable in the UI. 523 00:26:37,920 --> 00:26:40,680 And I think if you use Scout you'll feel the same way. 524 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:44,280 Finance is obviously a huge important vertical one that I 525 00:26:44,280 --> 00:26:50,120 think about a lot. Do you, how much do you think a 526 00:26:50,120 --> 00:26:53,560 retail trader is going to become smarter because of LMS or do 527 00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,760 you, how much are you trying? Are you doing anything to give 528 00:26:55,760 --> 00:26:58,360 them advice based on what language models think and like 529 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:01,040 what do you see in terms of, yeah, just like the retail 530 00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,040 trader and what they want or financial environment in this 531 00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,680 new world? Well, one dirty secret of that 532 00:27:07,680 --> 00:27:11,840 is is that, you know, of course, Yahoo Finance for 30 years, you 533 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,280 know, people have tried to copy it, tried to kill it. 534 00:27:15,280 --> 00:27:17,880 Google themselves. Interestingly, the person who 535 00:27:17,880 --> 00:27:20,760 started it for Google is on my board at Yahoo now. 536 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,440 Katie Stanton. But but it's interesting how 537 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:27,600 resilient that property has been over the years. 538 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,960 And that's before, you know, I think we've really tried to make 539 00:27:29,960 --> 00:27:33,000 it better and have some other things coming that I think would 540 00:27:33,000 --> 00:27:38,760 be a lot better. Again, you fall into the the an 541 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:43,080 area where the most basic features are the ones that are 542 00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,280 used the most. And so that deep, deep research 543 00:27:45,280 --> 00:27:48,840 is used by a smaller and smaller percentage of the charter base. 544 00:27:48,840 --> 00:27:52,120 We are, yeah. But but really, you know, stock 545 00:27:52,120 --> 00:27:55,240 quotes and news wound up being at the very top of that pyramid. 546 00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:01,400 And we are building things, you know, using AI, using Scout that 547 00:28:01,400 --> 00:28:05,560 allow, you know, people to go deeper and do hardcore research. 548 00:28:05,560 --> 00:28:08,640 And, and we do have things in the pipeline for that. 549 00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:12,040 We've also as part of the launch of Scout, we, we did launch 550 00:28:12,040 --> 00:28:15,920 features straight into every one of our products so far, not just 551 00:28:15,920 --> 00:28:20,280 finance, but fancy Sports News, e-mail, everything has got some 552 00:28:20,600 --> 00:28:23,040 bit of Scout, we call it the Scout intelligence platform kind 553 00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:27,120 of pushing features into it. And one is, you know, explain to 554 00:28:27,120 --> 00:28:30,600 you like what changed about the stock, why, you know, why is it 555 00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:32,600 trending in this direction, things like that. 556 00:28:33,160 --> 00:28:38,960 But yes, I I think, I think there is a future of much richer 557 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,560 detailed products in every category that AI can help drive. 558 00:28:43,000 --> 00:28:48,000 One we've, we've sort of hit on twice the situation where the 559 00:28:48,000 --> 00:28:51,280 consumer doesn't want sort of the Super cheap features or like 560 00:28:51,280 --> 00:28:53,880 they like advanced search. And then on finance we're 561 00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,520 talking about, you know, it's like they, they want a couple 562 00:28:56,520 --> 00:28:59,040 things they're not necessarily doing like intense hardcore 563 00:28:59,040 --> 00:29:02,440 research. I feel like in sort of the AI 564 00:29:02,440 --> 00:29:06,760 consumer, somebody I think had a tweet I'm stealing, I'll have to 565 00:29:06,760 --> 00:29:08,160 go find it and throw it up on the screen. 566 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:10,880 But basically the idea is that I think there are a lot of people 567 00:29:10,880 --> 00:29:16,280 who think consumers want AI to like save them time like like in 568 00:29:16,280 --> 00:29:19,280 business or like make me sort of more efficient, better at like 569 00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:21,960 calendaring or something. But it, but in a lot of cases 570 00:29:21,960 --> 00:29:24,920 what they actually want is sort of to waste time sort of more 571 00:29:24,920 --> 00:29:27,800 enjoyably. And they want AI to be like fun 572 00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:30,440 and and lively. And I, I guess I'm just getting 573 00:29:30,440 --> 00:29:34,880 at like, what do you think the consumer really wants from AI? 574 00:29:34,920 --> 00:29:38,400 Like where, where do you think there are real needs that LLMS 575 00:29:38,600 --> 00:29:41,600 can satisfy versus right now they're sort of just getting 576 00:29:41,600 --> 00:29:44,120 thrown? Yeah, things that researchers 577 00:29:44,120 --> 00:29:47,160 built sort of natively to them and stuff that's working for 578 00:29:47,160 --> 00:29:50,040 enterprises but isn't, doesn't really have like the consumer. 579 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,120 It it is, it always has been category by category. 580 00:29:54,120 --> 00:29:58,520 So I think AI now is, you know, horizontal across everything 581 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:00,200 that's happening out there. And it depends. 582 00:30:00,880 --> 00:30:05,480 So, so yeah. And, and I don't know what part 583 00:30:05,480 --> 00:30:07,320 of it you're using for entertainment is that like it's, 584 00:30:07,320 --> 00:30:08,920 it's your buddy and you're having you're having 585 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:11,000 conversations. With me, I had the sort of like, 586 00:30:11,000 --> 00:30:13,240 oh, we're going to create like slop videos. 587 00:30:13,240 --> 00:30:17,320 My my wife has recently been sending me these. 588 00:30:17,440 --> 00:30:21,120 I don't know how much TikTok you waste your life watching, but 589 00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:25,720 they're a very viral TikTok at the moment is fruits like, you 590 00:30:25,720 --> 00:30:27,880 know, arguing with each other, like cheating on each other. 591 00:30:27,880 --> 00:30:31,280 It's like as if it's like the bachelor, but it is fruit and it 592 00:30:31,280 --> 00:30:34,080 is like it's the first time I I don't I found it terrible. 593 00:30:34,080 --> 00:30:36,200 I was like, this is I don't know why you're watching this, but 594 00:30:36,520 --> 00:30:39,200 it's like slop. You know, he's sort of hitting 595 00:30:39,440 --> 00:30:41,400 story in a way. Like I feel like this sort of 596 00:30:41,400 --> 00:30:46,120 like time wasting video is where it like can be sort of tested 597 00:30:46,120 --> 00:30:48,360 enough and it's just like throw shit at the wall and see what 598 00:30:48,640 --> 00:30:50,440 resonates with people. I don't know, I. 599 00:30:50,600 --> 00:30:52,600 That makes sense. That's that's just incremental. 600 00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:54,960 I mean, Amazon just announced AI Studios. 601 00:30:54,960 --> 00:30:59,560 I think Albert Chang was formerly ABC and Disney and is 602 00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:03,040 now running it. So there obviously is a future 603 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:04,880 for that. It makes more sense in short 604 00:31:04,880 --> 00:31:08,160 form videos, right? Lower consequences and and it's 605 00:31:08,160 --> 00:31:10,080 more time. Burning spin up the whole movie. 606 00:31:10,160 --> 00:31:13,240 Yeah, but Tik Tok's not new or, or Reels is not new to how you 607 00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:15,880 or YouTube Shorts to how you've been spending time, you know, 608 00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:19,440 that's consumed much, much more of your entertainment time than 609 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:21,520 it used to. So, you know, I think that makes 610 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:23,120 sense. We we tend to operate much more 611 00:31:23,120 --> 00:31:29,000 in categories where they you're trying to get things done. 612 00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,520 So you do have a little bit more of that professional? 613 00:31:31,840 --> 00:31:34,280 Well, again, it's some of them are utilities. 614 00:31:34,280 --> 00:31:38,440 So I would say e-mail search, maybe weather are in the 615 00:31:38,480 --> 00:31:41,680 utilities category. We do have content category, 616 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:43,960 sports and finance. But again, in finance you're 617 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:45,840 trying to make more money or save money. 618 00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:48,640 Sports is the one where, you know, obviously that's 619 00:31:48,640 --> 00:31:53,440 entertainment, but Yahoo users are using it to play fantasy, 620 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:54,920 beat the snot out of their friends. 621 00:31:55,240 --> 00:31:57,600 Take it too. Seriously, that win money, you 622 00:31:57,600 --> 00:31:59,680 know, they're, they're actually using it for, for these things. 623 00:31:59,680 --> 00:32:03,680 So not to be cheesy about it, but we did have to reset the 624 00:32:03,680 --> 00:32:06,040 mission of the company. When I got here, Yahoo was the 625 00:32:06,040 --> 00:32:08,800 turn around. It had been owned by Verizon for 626 00:32:08,800 --> 00:32:11,840 many years before that, serving whatever purposes they bought it 627 00:32:11,840 --> 00:32:13,880 for. Before that, it was a struggling 628 00:32:13,880 --> 00:32:16,600 public company having to make really hard choices about what 629 00:32:17,280 --> 00:32:20,040 it was going to do to survive and, and try to grow against 630 00:32:20,040 --> 00:32:22,920 some really hard headwinds of Google and Facebook and YouTube 631 00:32:22,920 --> 00:32:25,920 and, you know, social media, other other things. 632 00:32:25,920 --> 00:32:31,080 So, you know, we had a, the benefit almost of being able to 633 00:32:31,080 --> 00:32:33,000 only focus on what was good about Yahoo. 634 00:32:33,160 --> 00:32:34,640 We didn't have to worry about the rest of it. 635 00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,440 Why is Yahoo Finance still #1? Why is Yahoo Sports top two? 636 00:32:38,880 --> 00:32:40,760 Why do so many people want aggregated news? 637 00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:42,240 And like, what can we do to lean into that? 638 00:32:42,400 --> 00:32:44,480 Why is Yahoo Mail so pop still so popular? 639 00:32:44,480 --> 00:32:46,640 And it it the spine of that book is is always. 640 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:48,160 What is it? What's the? 641 00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:51,400 Answer it always goes back to Jerry and David's original 642 00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:53,480 founding of the company. They were trying to be the guide 643 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:55,840 to the Internet. It says it right on the original 644 00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:58,440 page, Jerry and David's Guide to the World Wide Web. 645 00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:01,440 And that started because Andreessen had started Mosaic 646 00:33:01,840 --> 00:33:06,000 and it was originally for, it said on the page for Mosaic. 647 00:33:06,520 --> 00:33:08,840 And it was because that you had access to the Internet, but you 648 00:33:08,840 --> 00:33:10,080 didn't know how to find anything. 649 00:33:10,280 --> 00:33:12,200 And then that evolved into doing things. 650 00:33:12,440 --> 00:33:14,440 And Yahoo is your home base, you know, for that. 651 00:33:14,760 --> 00:33:18,120 So we, you know, did not have infinite resources taking this 652 00:33:18,120 --> 00:33:20,840 over. Our job to do is to make sure we 653 00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:24,560 understood that people were using Yahoo for, and that was 654 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,200 for trying to accomplish these goals in whatever category it 655 00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,920 was. So all of our focus and road map 656 00:33:29,920 --> 00:33:32,960 started to go behind that and that's when we started move out 657 00:33:32,960 --> 00:33:34,800 things that didn't. Right, but it's still rooted in 658 00:33:34,800 --> 00:33:37,360 the Internet or it's. All, all Internet, but you're 659 00:33:37,360 --> 00:33:39,560 using the Internet to accomplish those things. 660 00:33:40,440 --> 00:33:45,160 So when it comes to AI, we just launched literally today as an 661 00:33:45,160 --> 00:33:48,800 example in e-mail and you talk about entertainment versus 662 00:33:48,800 --> 00:33:50,600 calendar and all that. But we launched a product called 663 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:54,680 Planner and it does go in using Scout technology and extracts 664 00:33:55,040 --> 00:34:00,080 all these like next step things that are demand need to demand 665 00:34:00,080 --> 00:34:03,560 your attention, that you need to know, you know, a deadline, 666 00:34:03,840 --> 00:34:07,360 something for your kids school, a flight doctor's appointment. 667 00:34:07,360 --> 00:34:09,679 It extracts that out and automatically adds it to your 668 00:34:09,679 --> 00:34:12,440 calendar. If you're, you know, or to A to 669 00:34:12,440 --> 00:34:15,480 do list and, and Yahoo and you're, you know, we have that 670 00:34:15,480 --> 00:34:19,400 feature as well. And that's using AI to remove 671 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:22,280 steps so that you can get things done better and faster that you 672 00:34:22,280 --> 00:34:24,520 didn't have to think about. Like, I think that's a good one. 673 00:34:24,960 --> 00:34:27,400 I had my first fantasy baseball draft of the season last night 674 00:34:28,920 --> 00:34:33,400 and if you are a Yahoo Plus subscriber, it will be your 675 00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,560 research assistant and help you do a better job in your draft. 676 00:34:36,560 --> 00:34:38,639 So. So it really is category by 677 00:34:38,639 --> 00:34:42,280 category. I I buy that Yahoo is more of a 678 00:34:42,280 --> 00:34:46,400 friend to the Internet and some of these LMS because it's like, 679 00:34:46,400 --> 00:34:50,480 OK, we want to get people to the good stuff out there so they can 680 00:34:50,480 --> 00:34:51,719 find it. And that's really what the 681 00:34:51,719 --> 00:34:55,800 business has been about. But has that raw material just 682 00:34:55,800 --> 00:34:58,440 gotten, like, worse over time? Like, is the Internet just 683 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:02,840 degrading? It feels like media is getting 684 00:35:02,840 --> 00:35:05,000 worse. You know, I think of like, even 685 00:35:05,000 --> 00:35:07,160 Reddit, which for a while I think there was a meme, it's 686 00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:09,720 like, oh, if you wanted a good Google search result, you just 687 00:35:09,720 --> 00:35:11,280 search what are they saying on Reddit? 688 00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:15,760 Which I think is somewhat true, but to some degree I worry more 689 00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:19,440 and more that Reddit posts are becoming like was this an LLMAMA 690 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:22,120 or or is this a real 1? I don't know. 691 00:35:22,120 --> 00:35:25,920 Do you worry about just like the raw materials that you rely on 692 00:35:26,600 --> 00:35:28,560 on the Internet getting worse right now? 693 00:35:29,640 --> 00:35:32,360 I mean, I hate to always bring it back to this isn't new, but 694 00:35:32,480 --> 00:35:36,200 you know, if you go back to my first time and search Danny 695 00:35:36,200 --> 00:35:38,800 Sullivan, if you remember Danny, but he had the biggest search 696 00:35:38,800 --> 00:35:43,880 engine conference 5000 people would go and it those of us you 697 00:35:43,880 --> 00:35:47,560 know who ran search engines, we'd be on stage and and and 698 00:35:47,560 --> 00:35:51,440 talking, but in the audience were all the spammers, all the. 699 00:35:51,520 --> 00:35:52,920 The whole SEO, how can we take advantage? 700 00:35:52,920 --> 00:35:55,800 Of the whole SEO community and if you went outside or or to the 701 00:35:55,800 --> 00:35:57,880 bar afterwards, everyone's together. 702 00:35:57,880 --> 00:36:02,320 And that game of trying to send traffic for their own purposes, 703 00:36:02,320 --> 00:36:05,000 that's not new. And yeah, there were there are 704 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:07,920 really good SE OS who are trying to be helpful for publishers and 705 00:36:07,920 --> 00:36:10,520 there's ones who are trying to gain the engines to, you know, 706 00:36:10,520 --> 00:36:13,440 drive it to to, you know, lower tier traffic. 707 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:17,000 That is not a new game. I don't think AI slop. 708 00:36:17,000 --> 00:36:18,200 I think that's another part of it. 709 00:36:18,200 --> 00:36:20,480 Think about the decade before clickbait. 710 00:36:20,800 --> 00:36:24,080 I mean, it's just, you know, all these attention vampires out 711 00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:26,480 there, like trying to think about how headlines change over 712 00:36:26,480 --> 00:36:29,880 the years and the ones that you would have written 10:15 no, 713 00:36:29,960 --> 00:36:33,120 probably 1520 years ago to over the last 10 years after 714 00:36:33,120 --> 00:36:35,040 BuzzFeed. And like how every, even New 715 00:36:35,040 --> 00:36:38,400 York Times headlines became very like BuzzFeed type headlines. 716 00:36:38,960 --> 00:36:40,200 So this trend has been out there. 717 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:42,920 But I would say there's more good content than there's ever 718 00:36:42,920 --> 00:36:46,160 been certainly than 20 years ago on the Internet just by sheer 719 00:36:46,160 --> 00:36:49,240 volume. If you think about not only is 720 00:36:49,240 --> 00:36:53,360 the content on the Times and Washington Post and CNN and BBC 721 00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:57,120 and you know, all these places, like there's amazing content in 722 00:36:57,120 --> 00:37:00,640 these places, but then with Substack and then with YouTube, 723 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:03,640 I mean, it's, it is endless how much great content is out there. 724 00:37:03,640 --> 00:37:07,320 So I, I think it is our job to help you find the good stuff and 725 00:37:07,320 --> 00:37:10,160 to, to be your guide through that digital wilderness and 726 00:37:10,160 --> 00:37:13,400 then, you know, avoid falling into, you know, off a Cliff or 727 00:37:13,400 --> 00:37:14,760 stepping on a rattlesnake or whatever. 728 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,800 We have to help you do to, to get through it all that that is 729 00:37:17,800 --> 00:37:20,320 historically our job. And we have to, you know, do a 730 00:37:20,320 --> 00:37:23,240 good job of that. That job will get harder over 731 00:37:23,240 --> 00:37:25,920 the next 30 years, but it's not a new job. 732 00:37:26,240 --> 00:37:28,480 I think I agree with you that overall it's gotten better. 733 00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:32,240 I mean, YouTube explainers that whole category is sort of like 734 00:37:32,240 --> 00:37:34,840 the, you can go to YouTube for sort of any question you have 735 00:37:34,840 --> 00:37:38,160 about the world. I think the New York Times has 736 00:37:38,160 --> 00:37:41,760 gotten better, but obviously, like local papers have generally 737 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:42,800 gotten worse. It's hard. 738 00:37:43,000 --> 00:37:47,040 It's hard to score overall. I mean, I yeah, there's some. 739 00:37:47,040 --> 00:37:50,400 There's some puts and takes. In this generation, unless like 740 00:37:50,600 --> 00:37:53,520 Jim Prosser, APR Guy in Silicon Valley, who I respect has a 741 00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:58,720 blog, he he basically argued that like the SEO optimization 742 00:37:58,720 --> 00:38:02,720 for LMS category, I forget what people are calling it, but yeah, 743 00:38:02,960 --> 00:38:05,680 but he said he thought that was sort of fake or like that, that 744 00:38:05,800 --> 00:38:08,320 there isn't as much to be done there. 745 00:38:08,320 --> 00:38:11,760 Do you agree with that? Honestly, I, I'd follow a lot of 746 00:38:11,760 --> 00:38:15,440 SEOSII, you know, came out of that industry. 747 00:38:15,440 --> 00:38:17,240 I, I, I know a lot of those people. 748 00:38:17,240 --> 00:38:19,320 I read on Twitter all day long, everything. 749 00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:25,400 They're just trying to do what they can to adapt and to get the 750 00:38:25,560 --> 00:38:28,760 that that traffic was pulled out from under them in a lot of 751 00:38:28,760 --> 00:38:31,160 extremely important categories that that have been. 752 00:38:31,480 --> 00:38:38,000 And and to your point, you know, not really with any heads up, 753 00:38:38,640 --> 00:38:41,200 you know, this was just done in the dark of night and all of a 754 00:38:41,200 --> 00:38:42,960 sudden it's like here are these, here are these. 755 00:38:42,960 --> 00:38:45,480 Products that everyone choose on the SC, so they're saying is 756 00:38:45,480 --> 00:38:48,600 there money to be made helping people optimize for language 757 00:38:48,600 --> 00:38:50,560 models right now or you think that's not going to be a big 758 00:38:50,560 --> 00:38:54,120 business? I mean, if it is the traditional 759 00:38:54,120 --> 00:38:57,400 large language model with, with footnotes at the end, it's going 760 00:38:57,400 --> 00:39:02,000 to be a hard, a hard one. But but yeah, it's the the 761 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:05,880 industry will have to adapt to prioritizing traffic or it'll be 762 00:39:05,880 --> 00:39:07,160 hard. I mean, I do watch those 763 00:39:07,160 --> 00:39:09,480 discussions that they're having about trying to figure out like, 764 00:39:09,480 --> 00:39:13,640 oh, if you, you know, 'cause what they're hearing from Google 765 00:39:13,640 --> 00:39:17,800 and others is, you know, it's the same, do it the same. 766 00:39:17,800 --> 00:39:21,600 You know, you have to optimize for these characteristics in 767 00:39:21,600 --> 00:39:26,080 your on quality and speed and freshness and all these things. 768 00:39:26,080 --> 00:39:29,200 But at the end of the day, if the UI does not enable someone 769 00:39:29,200 --> 00:39:34,080 to easily click out or click out at all, it's going to be hard, 770 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,960 right? Hard to see value from it's. 771 00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:40,320 Not hard to get traffic, Yeah. And by the way, I also think 772 00:39:40,320 --> 00:39:43,440 users have been trained. But, and this is where I go to, 773 00:39:43,440 --> 00:39:45,560 we're only three years into the next 30 years. 774 00:39:45,560 --> 00:39:49,680 So I think it can be evolved over time now, but it's not 775 00:39:49,680 --> 00:39:52,760 going to happen overnight. They have been trained initially 776 00:39:52,760 --> 00:39:55,960 with these products to not click, you know. 777 00:39:56,400 --> 00:40:00,840 Definitely the my biggest concern rather than like spam 778 00:40:00,840 --> 00:40:02,880 for language monolayer. Well, not my biggest concern. 779 00:40:02,920 --> 00:40:06,640 A concern is just whether the consumer is savvy enough, right? 780 00:40:06,640 --> 00:40:12,080 I think on Twitter especially, you see all this like AI writing 781 00:40:12,520 --> 00:40:15,840 that goes so viral and it just feels like. 782 00:40:16,760 --> 00:40:19,320 Who is the speaker? Like, the markets are moving, 783 00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:22,760 you know, off of reports that feel like they could have been 784 00:40:22,760 --> 00:40:25,440 written by AI. Yeah, although the mission for 785 00:40:25,720 --> 00:40:30,360 for Twitter is Wild West, it's free speech, anything goes. 786 00:40:30,360 --> 00:40:32,760 We're not going to curate it. And that's a good thing. 787 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:35,760 So that's probably not the right place to go if you want to, but 788 00:40:35,760 --> 00:40:36,160 that's. What? 789 00:40:36,200 --> 00:40:38,040 I would argue those, yeah, but I would argue. 790 00:40:38,040 --> 00:40:40,840 Those users are getting what they're they're asking for in, 791 00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:43,440 in using that product. I mean, I use it, you know, all 792 00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:45,520 the time and you just have to know what you're getting 793 00:40:45,520 --> 00:40:47,680 yourself into. It is, you know, they, they have 794 00:40:47,680 --> 00:40:50,800 been launching more features to, to maybe help you curate it 795 00:40:50,800 --> 00:40:53,320 more. And but you know, look, every 796 00:40:53,320 --> 00:40:56,640 one of these product feed based products has is always trying to 797 00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,360 get you to the 4U column. You know, they're, they're all 798 00:41:00,200 --> 00:41:02,560 about that and that's the one that's most susceptible to that. 799 00:41:03,400 --> 00:41:07,520 What I mean your, but your answer for this problem is to 800 00:41:07,520 --> 00:41:10,520 trust sort of news outlets, right, Which you then sort of 801 00:41:10,520 --> 00:41:13,560 drive traffic like you're not personally going and saying like 802 00:41:13,560 --> 00:41:16,560 who's real, who's not, what's true, what's not your. 803 00:41:16,760 --> 00:41:20,400 And we definitely are when it comes to yahoo.com or Yahoo 804 00:41:20,400 --> 00:41:22,600 News. So what you're saying which 805 00:41:22,640 --> 00:41:24,880 outlets are true, right or like you? 806 00:41:25,440 --> 00:41:28,960 You we are trying to be purple in terms of left and right. 807 00:41:28,960 --> 00:41:31,680 And I would always remind people there's only one category. 808 00:41:31,920 --> 00:41:33,920 When people say they don't trust the media, they're not talking 809 00:41:33,920 --> 00:41:37,880 about sports or food critics or movie critics or, you know, 810 00:41:37,880 --> 00:41:39,120 people who cover the real estate. 811 00:41:39,560 --> 00:41:44,160 It's politics is the is the dividing category and, and, and 812 00:41:44,160 --> 00:41:47,160 so for that one, we really try to especially for people who are 813 00:41:47,160 --> 00:41:49,800 not logged in, just starting out, not move them one way or 814 00:41:49,800 --> 00:41:51,440 the other. Now you will by the algorithm be 815 00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:54,080 moved one way or the other based on your preferences over time. 816 00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:57,840 I think that's totally fair as long as the, the source is a 817 00:41:57,840 --> 00:42:00,240 trustworthy source. We, you know, we are partnered 818 00:42:00,240 --> 00:42:03,720 with hundreds into the thousands of publishers. 819 00:42:03,720 --> 00:42:06,120 So we we have vetted these sources that you will see 820 00:42:06,120 --> 00:42:07,400 showing. Up right you're deciding is 821 00:42:07,400 --> 00:42:08,280 Reuters. Trustworthy. 822 00:42:08,280 --> 00:42:10,080 The only thing that shows up on Yahoo is someone we've done a 823 00:42:10,080 --> 00:42:14,360 partnership with when it comes to, to news, when it comes to 824 00:42:14,360 --> 00:42:18,760 the to Yahoo scout or AI answer engine, you know, there's, 825 00:42:18,760 --> 00:42:21,760 there's all kinds of data that's coming into that, including 826 00:42:21,760 --> 00:42:27,000 vertical publisher data. We also grounded on on Bing and 827 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,520 you know, we're, we're, you know, it's, it's based on usage 828 00:42:30,520 --> 00:42:34,200 data, query data, you know, all, all the things that Yahoo 829 00:42:34,200 --> 00:42:36,800 uniquely has over time. It's one reason our answers are, 830 00:42:36,800 --> 00:42:39,360 are pretty unique. But in that way, it is curated. 831 00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,480 It is not just a random pull. By digesting the entire Internet 832 00:42:43,480 --> 00:42:45,840 and then predicting the next, you're striking partnerships. 833 00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:49,040 Yeah, we're actually trying to have a high quality in our 834 00:42:49,040 --> 00:42:50,880 answers. I mean, the news business can 835 00:42:50,880 --> 00:42:53,440 feel essential, a trend we haven't touched on as much, you 836 00:42:53,440 --> 00:42:56,840 know, like prediction markets. I think there was a reporter who 837 00:42:56,840 --> 00:42:59,920 was worried he was getting threatened over saying that like 838 00:42:59,920 --> 00:43:02,440 a missile had hit something because a prediction market 839 00:43:02,720 --> 00:43:04,400 hungover. And there was an angry reader 840 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:09,000 trying to get him to adjust the article to, I guess, help the 841 00:43:09,000 --> 00:43:11,240 bet. So, you know, prediction markets 842 00:43:11,240 --> 00:43:13,720 resolve to some of these news outlets obviously. 843 00:43:13,720 --> 00:43:16,800 Right, it's. Amazing language models. 844 00:43:16,800 --> 00:43:18,880 You know, it's like a lot of materials news. 845 00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:21,840 I mean you you own TechCrunch, which obviously. 846 00:43:21,840 --> 00:43:23,840 No, no, we sold. Yeah, you owned past tense, 847 00:43:23,840 --> 00:43:26,680 that's what I'm saying. Yes, past tense and decided not 848 00:43:26,680 --> 00:43:29,960 to continue owning. Like how much is your view that 849 00:43:30,320 --> 00:43:31,960 yeah, the news business is fucked? 850 00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,560 Well, that wasn't it. It was that we were kind of had 851 00:43:35,560 --> 00:43:37,200 one foot in hot water, one in cold water. 852 00:43:37,200 --> 00:43:39,280 Like who are we? We have to choose. 853 00:43:39,280 --> 00:43:40,520 We were bought by private equity. 854 00:43:40,520 --> 00:43:43,520 We're starting back out. Like you just have to focus, you 855 00:43:43,520 --> 00:43:47,360 know. And so for us over time, it was 856 00:43:47,360 --> 00:43:49,080 that we're not in the breaking news business. 857 00:43:49,080 --> 00:43:53,800 So we aren't having reporters on the front lines, you know, 858 00:43:54,040 --> 00:43:56,440 reporting the news out from there that we will aggregate 859 00:43:56,440 --> 00:44:00,000 that news and send them traffic. And we're glad they do it. 860 00:44:00,000 --> 00:44:04,000 But that's not that's all we do. We are our our content is for 861 00:44:04,000 --> 00:44:07,400 context to the things that people breaking the news, you 862 00:44:07,400 --> 00:44:09,520 know, report. And historically, Yahoo Sports 863 00:44:09,520 --> 00:44:13,160 is a good example. The best breaking news reporters 864 00:44:13,160 --> 00:44:17,320 in in basketball, you know, originally Woj, then Shawn's. 865 00:44:17,480 --> 00:44:19,000 They started at Yahoo. You were the breeding. 866 00:44:19,000 --> 00:44:20,360 Ground, it was the breeding ground for that. 867 00:44:20,360 --> 00:44:22,760 But again, within, and I saw this at CBS as well, it's 868 00:44:22,760 --> 00:44:26,600 because we ran CBSSports.com. We had all kinds of, you know, 869 00:44:27,120 --> 00:44:30,440 writers on the front lines and you know, SportsCenter would 870 00:44:30,440 --> 00:44:34,160 barely mention us, you know, in breaking the news and it was in 871 00:44:34,160 --> 00:44:36,360 within 5 seconds, you know, it's already out there. 872 00:44:36,360 --> 00:44:39,040 So we just felt like that's not where we can have the most value 873 00:44:39,040 --> 00:44:41,840 and maybe we don't find the most value ourselves. 874 00:44:41,840 --> 00:44:43,240 Which is it? Like and also why? 875 00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:47,160 Be the but is there value but? Also, why be the 200th player in 876 00:44:47,160 --> 00:44:49,400 that? It's, it's not where Yahoo 877 00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:51,840 should play. You know, we, we, we, we were 878 00:44:51,840 --> 00:44:54,400 literally competing against The Associated Press for news story 879 00:44:54,400 --> 00:44:56,400 that that's not our job. Our job is to send The 880 00:44:56,400 --> 00:44:59,320 Associated Press traffic. Yeah, I mean, you define your 881 00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:02,240 job. I mean, I guess to me the world 882 00:45:02,240 --> 00:45:04,560 is short on breaking news. I'm not saying you need to. 883 00:45:04,800 --> 00:45:08,800 Anybody is obligated to be in any particular business, but I 884 00:45:08,800 --> 00:45:11,800 want to disentangle like do you think breaking news is not like 885 00:45:11,840 --> 00:45:16,120 a great. Business again, I would say we 886 00:45:16,120 --> 00:45:18,560 have to go back to sometimes when people talk about someone 887 00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:20,600 buying our company and they're like, oh, but what do you get 888 00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,520 get by regulators. I'm like, I love that we're at 889 00:45:23,520 --> 00:45:27,880 this point in time 31 years that after all Yahoo went through and 890 00:45:27,880 --> 00:45:30,000 how much people in the industry kind of dragged the brand 891 00:45:30,000 --> 00:45:32,640 through the mud that they would think that we would be the 892 00:45:32,640 --> 00:45:36,320 source of, of being, you know, of a regulatory thing with, with 893 00:45:36,320 --> 00:45:37,760 an acquisition that doesn't make sense. 894 00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:41,880 But I would say the same thing here that Yahoo of of all you 895 00:45:41,880 --> 00:45:43,280 know, publishers would be the one that. 896 00:45:43,400 --> 00:45:45,400 That is being why hold us to account on. 897 00:45:45,520 --> 00:45:48,320 That no is is is the one that you're saying is missing from 898 00:45:48,320 --> 00:45:50,160 the front lines of of journalism. 899 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:51,760 I I think there's a. Lot You're doing far more 900 00:45:51,760 --> 00:45:54,000 journalism than every other tech platform in the world. 901 00:45:54,040 --> 00:45:55,360 Right. We, we do a lot of journalism, 902 00:45:55,360 --> 00:45:57,360 but again, we do it from a certain point of view of like 903 00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:00,840 that is not the breaking news side that I think a lot of 904 00:46:00,840 --> 00:46:02,040 people, I'm not trying to put their. 905 00:46:02,080 --> 00:46:03,880 Resources into. In some ways, it's because 906 00:46:03,880 --> 00:46:05,280 you're the closest to it. You have to. 907 00:46:05,280 --> 00:46:07,560 Bring a turn around is is people, as you know, are saying 908 00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:08,680 like what's the formula for that? 909 00:46:08,680 --> 00:46:12,720 There's not always one people is the most important part, people 910 00:46:12,720 --> 00:46:14,520 who know what they're doing. And then they naturally put a 911 00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:18,000 great strategy in place and build great products and, and 912 00:46:19,280 --> 00:46:23,760 you know, and all that, but, but you know, one part of that is, 913 00:46:23,760 --> 00:46:26,160 is strategic focus. You can't do everything, 914 00:46:26,440 --> 00:46:30,520 especially when you're trying to fix the PNL, you know, build, 915 00:46:30,720 --> 00:46:33,000 get a solid foundation going for the for the future. 916 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:35,360 That is where we really were coming from and all that. 917 00:46:36,680 --> 00:46:39,120 Would breaking news, I mean it becomes a headache or like you 918 00:46:39,400 --> 00:46:41,920 where are things getting like escalated up to you or just like 919 00:46:41,920 --> 00:46:45,040 the business of breaking news is hard to manage or. 920 00:46:45,080 --> 00:46:46,960 Not for very well. We we made these decisions 921 00:46:46,960 --> 00:46:49,280 fairly always like after we took over. 922 00:46:49,280 --> 00:46:50,880 But. But no, I wouldn't. 923 00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:54,080 We certainly no decisions would make their way up to me. 924 00:46:54,080 --> 00:46:55,400 Yeah. I mean, you remember back at 925 00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,080 CBS, I had all kinds of of news brands. 926 00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:00,840 This was my first rodeo running, running a news brand like we 927 00:47:00,840 --> 00:47:01,920 did. We did not get involved. 928 00:47:01,920 --> 00:47:03,120 No. Well, that's why I'm asking for 929 00:47:03,120 --> 00:47:07,680 your sort of overall perspective on news right now. 930 00:47:07,720 --> 00:47:10,560 Yeah, I mean, it's, it's an interesting spot. 931 00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:16,080 I mean, I think the corporate ownership of all these things, 932 00:47:16,080 --> 00:47:21,560 the the, you know, what's being pushed on journalists from an 933 00:47:21,560 --> 00:47:25,400 editorial perspective. And you know, at the same time, 934 00:47:25,400 --> 00:47:29,360 there are we, we work with hundreds, thousands of sources. 935 00:47:29,360 --> 00:47:32,760 You know, I think the ones or the flashpoints are, are always 936 00:47:32,760 --> 00:47:34,240 interesting. There's nothing more interesting 937 00:47:34,240 --> 00:47:35,920 to journalists than other journalists. 938 00:47:35,920 --> 00:47:41,680 And I've always found that too. And, and so, you know, it's it 939 00:47:41,680 --> 00:47:43,320 that is not happening across the board. 940 00:47:43,320 --> 00:47:45,800 There are, there are still the vast majority of sources are, 941 00:47:46,720 --> 00:47:51,280 are not falling into that camp. So I, what I would say is news 942 00:47:51,280 --> 00:47:54,680 sources are definitely seeing less traffic, you know, because 943 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:56,800 of the way search has been evolving. 944 00:47:56,800 --> 00:47:59,640 So that part of it has been difficult for the industry. 945 00:48:00,160 --> 00:48:04,920 And you know, staffing in a premium way requires premium 946 00:48:04,920 --> 00:48:07,240 CPMS, right? And I think what happened over 947 00:48:07,240 --> 00:48:11,120 the previous 15 years was programmatic CPMS against 948 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:15,040 premium staffing equals very difficult business model, right? 949 00:48:15,040 --> 00:48:18,560 So now other things have evolved like podcasting and other ways 950 00:48:18,560 --> 00:48:23,240 to, you know, to, to kind of to go with if, if, if you're those 951 00:48:23,240 --> 00:48:26,600 kinds of brands. But yeah, it is it has been a it 952 00:48:26,840 --> 00:48:29,480 has been a hard business and harder for some than others. 953 00:48:30,600 --> 00:48:32,680 You know, New York Times is still doing really well. 954 00:48:32,680 --> 00:48:34,080 There are there are others doing well. 955 00:48:34,840 --> 00:48:38,080 Anyone who's subscription based, and this could be, you know, 956 00:48:38,080 --> 00:48:41,840 really anybody, you have to start with a broad funnel 957 00:48:41,920 --> 00:48:44,480 usually of free. If you're Netflix and you're you 958 00:48:44,480 --> 00:48:47,560 define the category cha chi PT in some ways with that where it 959 00:48:47,560 --> 00:48:49,640 was a subscription model to start with. 960 00:48:49,640 --> 00:48:52,960 The only way you could use it was in many ways was 961 00:48:52,960 --> 00:48:57,520 subscription based. But at the end of the day, only 962 00:48:57,520 --> 00:49:01,280 5% of chats CPT users are I believe are paying subscribers. 963 00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,480 So again, back to that broad funnel. 964 00:49:03,800 --> 00:49:08,760 And I think that requires brand that requires scale. 965 00:49:09,400 --> 00:49:13,080 So, so it's, it is, you know, for the few who are able to have 966 00:49:13,080 --> 00:49:15,920 that kind of a a model. And then on the other side of 967 00:49:15,920 --> 00:49:17,920 that, you will have more niche things. 968 00:49:17,920 --> 00:49:20,840 And that is where, you know, historically trade publications 969 00:49:20,840 --> 00:49:22,520 would fit in. They would charge a lot of money 970 00:49:22,520 --> 00:49:25,640 and not have a huge subscriber base, but they're prestigious in 971 00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:27,680 their industry. And I think I'm. 972 00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:29,280 Happy to take on that. Yep. 973 00:49:29,280 --> 00:49:32,840 Mantle and I think that Substack has and and others have come 974 00:49:32,840 --> 00:49:35,520 along in that niche and further that so. 975 00:49:36,080 --> 00:49:39,240 What Yahoo's obviously privately owned Like what? 976 00:49:39,280 --> 00:49:41,720 What can you say about the Business Today? 977 00:49:42,760 --> 00:49:45,400 That's good being private, I think. 978 00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:46,680 Do you want? To brag I feel like. 979 00:49:47,120 --> 00:49:51,800 No, not yet. At some point it's, you know, 980 00:49:51,800 --> 00:49:55,280 look, this was the kind of the white whale of turnarounds. 981 00:49:55,280 --> 00:49:57,320 It was one that, you know, I don't think a lot of people 982 00:49:57,320 --> 00:50:00,760 could thought could be pulled off and it was even, you know, I 983 00:50:00,760 --> 00:50:03,160 feel like we have done that. But I think it's been a 4 1/2 984 00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:06,440 year now journey to get there. And you realize like selling 985 00:50:06,440 --> 00:50:11,280 AOL, like how much have you do the math I guess for sort of the 986 00:50:11,280 --> 00:50:13,000 Apollo deal to to now? Yeah. 987 00:50:13,000 --> 00:50:17,800 So, yeah, I mean what they have said publicly is they've already 988 00:50:17,800 --> 00:50:20,440 returned the investment, the cash investment on it. 989 00:50:20,840 --> 00:50:23,200 So we're we're kind of playing for upside, you know on the on 990 00:50:23,200 --> 00:50:25,400 the rest of it. If you look at it as APE deal, 991 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:28,600 we're a little, we're very unusual for that, right? 992 00:50:28,600 --> 00:50:31,640 Because we are part of the beast of Silicon Valley, you know, who 993 00:50:31,640 --> 00:50:35,200 we compete with for users, who we sell to, you know, all of 994 00:50:35,200 --> 00:50:37,440 that. It's not a, it's not really, it 995 00:50:37,440 --> 00:50:40,160 doesn't fit the model of a traditional, you know, PE deal 996 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:43,080 in that way. And then AI, you know, when we 997 00:50:43,080 --> 00:50:46,760 bought the company, it was the middle of like stonks and, and 998 00:50:46,760 --> 00:50:49,160 all that. And then and then AI wasn't even 999 00:50:49,160 --> 00:50:50,880 on the map. And that happened November of 1000 00:50:50,880 --> 00:50:52,520 22. We, we spun the company out in 1001 00:50:52,520 --> 00:50:54,960 September of 21. So that's changed the whole 1002 00:50:54,960 --> 00:50:57,760 game. So yeah, with deals like AOL, 1003 00:50:57,760 --> 00:50:59,920 we, we actually sold the content delivery network that they own 1004 00:50:59,920 --> 00:51:03,320 when we first joined, we sold the branding rights to Yahoo 1005 00:51:03,320 --> 00:51:05,200 back to Yahoo Japan. We first started. 1006 00:51:05,200 --> 00:51:07,240 So they're like, and you know, then smaller ones like 1007 00:51:07,640 --> 00:51:09,640 TechCrunch and Rivals and Gadget. 1008 00:51:10,600 --> 00:51:12,720 So you take those all together and it's been, you know, we've 1009 00:51:12,720 --> 00:51:16,680 returned, you know, quite a bit. And then the amazing thing is 1010 00:51:16,680 --> 00:51:20,280 that the core Yahoo business, we've really optimized that. 1011 00:51:20,280 --> 00:51:22,360 We've gotten the cost in a really good place. 1012 00:51:22,360 --> 00:51:26,560 The quality of the people is incredible now and, and they're 1013 00:51:26,560 --> 00:51:29,840 all, you know, off and running traffic is growing at a really 1014 00:51:29,840 --> 00:51:31,520 good rate. Revenue is growing at a really 1015 00:51:31,520 --> 00:51:35,840 good rate, very profitable. But you know, this was a company 1016 00:51:35,840 --> 00:51:40,240 that went public in April of 1996, you know, started running 1017 00:51:40,240 --> 00:51:41,640 into some headwinds in the 2000s. 1018 00:51:41,640 --> 00:51:44,440 And I think for the next 15 years, you know, it was kind of 1019 00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,280 rough to be be Yahoo, the public company. 1020 00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:50,160 If you think about the, the famous dealer, they didn't sell 1021 00:51:50,160 --> 00:51:54,080 for 44 billion to Microsoft. That was 2008, you know, and it 1022 00:51:54,080 --> 00:51:57,440 went on another almost 10 years before selling to Verizon. 1023 00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,040 So that was a long time. So there it is good to be. 1024 00:52:01,240 --> 00:52:04,040 I've worked, I've done 2 startups for it that I founded 1025 00:52:04,320 --> 00:52:07,880 or Co founded. But you know, the majority of my 1026 00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:11,240 careers want to be in public companies or or large companies. 1027 00:52:11,240 --> 00:52:13,160 I'll just say there's some benefit to being public. 1028 00:52:13,160 --> 00:52:17,000 I mean to being private to do the, you know, to do all the 1029 00:52:17,000 --> 00:52:20,520 things to fix it because once you go public as you know like 1030 00:52:20,640 --> 00:52:23,920 it is all about, you know, you, you are held to account quarter 1031 00:52:23,920 --> 00:52:26,800 by quarter and you better understand what those next, you 1032 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:28,760 know five years are going to look like before you get there. 1033 00:52:28,920 --> 00:52:30,800 What? And it's also hard to make 1034 00:52:30,800 --> 00:52:34,560 changes in public. What is what is a win look like 1035 00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,160 for Scout and sort of your AI strategy? 1036 00:52:37,160 --> 00:52:41,400 How much is it about showing the industry what it should be doing 1037 00:52:41,400 --> 00:52:43,960 and then playing with the industry versus you want this 1038 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:46,440 just be sort of a huge product on it's own? 1039 00:52:46,440 --> 00:52:48,560 Like what? What is the goal with your AI 1040 00:52:48,560 --> 00:52:51,080 strategy? So if you go back to the turn 1041 00:52:51,080 --> 00:52:55,280 around strategy, it was a couple years of transformation work to 1042 00:52:55,280 --> 00:52:59,520 the org to the team. And then once you got through 1043 00:52:59,520 --> 00:53:02,600 all into the revenue model and the the revenue engine, you 1044 00:53:02,600 --> 00:53:06,080 know, we we migrated from the old revenue engine to to a new 1045 00:53:06,080 --> 00:53:09,960 one that that was just you know was better. 1046 00:53:09,960 --> 00:53:12,400 And then once you get through that, we are in the right OK to 1047 00:53:12,400 --> 00:53:13,760 then go and fix all the products. 1048 00:53:13,760 --> 00:53:18,200 So then we went through that phase and now we're in the shots 1049 00:53:18,200 --> 00:53:20,800 on goal period. We've actually we have the 1050 00:53:20,800 --> 00:53:22,040 resources like it's working we're. 1051 00:53:22,040 --> 00:53:23,640 Making money. We got rid of the stuff that 1052 00:53:23,640 --> 00:53:24,840 doesn't. Make sense, do something with 1053 00:53:24,840 --> 00:53:28,560 this audience and that is, you know, very loyal to us and the 1054 00:53:28,560 --> 00:53:32,760 places that are very logical not to go do some rando innovation. 1055 00:53:32,760 --> 00:53:35,240 Something has nothing to do with the spine of the book for for 1056 00:53:35,240 --> 00:53:37,960 Yahoo, but things that our users would find unique, uniquely 1057 00:53:37,960 --> 00:53:40,520 valuable, but also your asset base. 1058 00:53:40,520 --> 00:53:43,000 So I would, I would say there's two big ones right now. 1059 00:53:43,000 --> 00:53:46,680 One is Scout. The others are DSP, our demand 1060 00:53:46,720 --> 00:53:51,120 demand side platform in the ad tech space, which is growing in 1061 00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:54,080 a really good clip that competes with people like trade desk and 1062 00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:58,920 DV 360 from Google and Amazon and a lot of smaller players. 1063 00:53:59,360 --> 00:54:03,640 We're the largest private DSP and that is essentially, you 1064 00:54:03,640 --> 00:54:06,680 know, you can target talking about the new fronts, you can 1065 00:54:06,680 --> 00:54:09,440 target on Yahoo. Oh, no, we will sell ads to you 1066 00:54:09,440 --> 00:54:11,880 directly to to go on to our properties. 1067 00:54:12,120 --> 00:54:18,480 You can also using, you know, our data then go through us to, 1068 00:54:18,480 --> 00:54:20,880 you know, have ads on other people's properties. 1069 00:54:21,240 --> 00:54:23,680 And so that that has been a really good business. 1070 00:54:23,680 --> 00:54:26,640 We shut down to ad tech businesses to focus on that one. 1071 00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:29,440 And we think that could be potentially worth, you know, 1072 00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:30,760 billions of dollars if we get that right. 1073 00:54:30,760 --> 00:54:33,160 So we're in business. Is it I mean, it's a lot of top 1074 00:54:33,160 --> 00:54:35,360 line revenue. You do, you know, there there's, 1075 00:54:36,800 --> 00:54:39,880 there's a lot of revelation. That goes back, right? 1076 00:54:40,080 --> 00:54:43,280 Yeah. So so you you do and how much 1077 00:54:43,280 --> 00:54:45,000 are people using out of traffic that? 1078 00:54:45,000 --> 00:54:47,920 Totally advertise off of Yahoo or it's mostly for people who 1079 00:54:47,920 --> 00:54:49,200 are already doing a lot of Yahoo. 1080 00:54:49,320 --> 00:54:52,960 Ad no, it's for only 9% of the impressions in that network are 1081 00:54:54,080 --> 00:54:57,280 are Yahoo. So that's also our competitors 1082 00:54:57,280 --> 00:54:59,920 will say you're only buying Yahoo and try to throw us under 1083 00:54:59,920 --> 00:55:02,240 the bus that way. It's actually 90% or off of 1084 00:55:02,240 --> 00:55:05,160 Yahoo and so Netflix and Spotify and many many. 1085 00:55:05,600 --> 00:55:09,560 That's the DSP. Work with the Yahoo DSP Scout is 1086 00:55:09,560 --> 00:55:12,440 interesting because there's a lot of great reasons to do it, 1087 00:55:12,440 --> 00:55:14,000 which is why we built it ourselves. 1088 00:55:14,000 --> 00:55:20,080 So Yahoo had outsourced search since 2009 to Bing and same same 1089 00:55:20,080 --> 00:55:22,880 as Yahoo did originally. So it's almost like an 1090 00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,120 enterprise search deal. And Bing did that to build up 1091 00:55:26,120 --> 00:55:27,960 the volume in their network, right? 1092 00:55:27,960 --> 00:55:30,960 The way search advertising works is it's not about the technology 1093 00:55:30,960 --> 00:55:35,800 as as much as it's about volume. The NTH advertiser will, you 1094 00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:39,240 know, increase prices in the auction, they'll expand 1095 00:55:39,240 --> 00:55:41,360 coverage, they'll increase relevance, which will help the 1096 00:55:41,360 --> 00:55:43,880 click through rate. That is really the secret is the 1097 00:55:43,920 --> 00:55:47,640 NTH advertiser goes to Google. So if you put Bing and Yahoo 1098 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:50,520 together, you know, for the Bing marketplace, it actually 1099 00:55:50,520 --> 00:55:53,800 increases the likelihood the NTH advertiser will also come into 1100 00:55:53,800 --> 00:55:57,160 the into Bing. So that's why Yahoo and Bing 1101 00:55:57,160 --> 00:56:01,520 have been partnered for so long. But when it came to this, we 1102 00:56:01,520 --> 00:56:03,480 looked at the category about a year ago because we're coming 1103 00:56:03,480 --> 00:56:05,800 through that transformation period felt like we, you know, 1104 00:56:06,240 --> 00:56:09,040 this is the next obvious thing to focus on given search such a 1105 00:56:09,040 --> 00:56:13,040 big part of our portfolio still, but outsourced it. 1106 00:56:13,320 --> 00:56:16,000 And we looked at everything. We looked at every outsourced 1107 00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,040 possibility that you could think of and it came back to the idea 1108 00:56:19,040 --> 00:56:23,520 that given all the data, 30 years of search history, all of 1109 00:56:23,520 --> 00:56:27,120 our usage data, our user data, the publisher data, you know, 1110 00:56:27,120 --> 00:56:31,200 all of it, we actually were sitting on this goldmine of of 1111 00:56:31,200 --> 00:56:34,760 data that you would you could use to create a really good AI 1112 00:56:34,760 --> 00:56:36,200 answer engine. Right. 1113 00:56:36,200 --> 00:56:37,600 You know. What I mean partner, partner 1114 00:56:37,600 --> 00:56:40,920 with an index because you have to ground it for accuracy. 1115 00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,600 But if you had that and and then it became very obvious that, you 1116 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:48,360 know, we already had a big search team that really weren't 1117 00:56:48,440 --> 00:56:51,480 building index search that we could repurpose for this. 1118 00:56:51,960 --> 00:56:53,480 So we we tried to figure that out. 1119 00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,920 And then last summer we bought the company, a company, a start 1120 00:56:56,920 --> 00:57:01,200 up run by a guy named Eric Feng, who's kind of a luminary in the 1121 00:57:01,200 --> 00:57:03,920 industry. He he, you know, back in the 1122 00:57:03,920 --> 00:57:06,720 day, he worked at Microsoft and ran the research lab in Beijing 1123 00:57:06,720 --> 00:57:08,680 and he helped create Bing. But then he went with Jason 1124 00:57:08,680 --> 00:57:11,920 Kilar and he Co founded Hulu. He was the head of technology 1125 00:57:11,920 --> 00:57:14,000 and product for Hulu. So we both spent time in the 1126 00:57:14,000 --> 00:57:18,320 streaming wars and then was at Kleiner Perkins and Meta and 1127 00:57:18,320 --> 00:57:19,480 other places before the start up. 1128 00:57:19,480 --> 00:57:23,440 So Eric shared a passion with our team that what he called 1129 00:57:23,440 --> 00:57:28,200 Yahoo's toys would be an amazing set of data to work with to 1130 00:57:28,200 --> 00:57:32,480 create a product like this. And so we went to buy his 1131 00:57:32,480 --> 00:57:34,960 company last summer and we put him in charge of consumer 1132 00:57:34,960 --> 00:57:37,960 search. And so early August last year we 1133 00:57:37,960 --> 00:57:41,160 started building. And again, if we go back to why 1134 00:57:41,160 --> 00:57:44,640 we did it, we have the third most search volume. 1135 00:57:44,840 --> 00:57:47,640 It's small compared to Google, but still a very big business 1136 00:57:47,640 --> 00:57:50,680 for us. We had to have the best AI 1137 00:57:50,680 --> 00:57:53,840 search results or answers that we could possibly have. 1138 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,080 If we didn't we would lose users cuz search is evolving and 1139 00:57:57,080 --> 00:58:01,080 changing and if it made sense we would have outsourced it but it 1140 00:58:01,080 --> 00:58:02,840 actually made the most sense to to build it. 1141 00:58:03,000 --> 00:58:05,320 How much of yahoo.com are you funneling people? 1142 00:58:05,320 --> 00:58:06,960 Like are you? Nothing so far. 1143 00:58:07,080 --> 00:58:12,240 Why not like? Because we are in beta and we're 1144 00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:13,240 a, you know. Cost. 1145 00:58:13,240 --> 00:58:14,960 Does it cost more money to distribute? 1146 00:58:15,080 --> 00:58:18,280 We're a little more than a month and 1/2 in and yeah, there is a 1147 00:58:18,280 --> 00:58:20,360 cost. There's a there's a cost both to 1148 00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:23,400 grounding a Bing and we work with a very lightweight model 1149 00:58:23,400 --> 00:58:25,200 the anthropic makes called Haiku. 1150 00:58:26,320 --> 00:58:30,160 So it's super fast and it, it essentially processes our data. 1151 00:58:30,160 --> 00:58:33,640 It's we're not, you know, using, you know, their, their answers. 1152 00:58:33,640 --> 00:58:36,400 It's our, it's, it's ours running through their 1153 00:58:36,560 --> 00:58:40,280 lightweight model that comes back to us to render in our kind 1154 00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,800 of, you know, we love our UI. We, we think it's really rich UI 1155 00:58:43,800 --> 00:58:46,760 that has some, some personality and some great answers. 1156 00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,760 So all that together does cost some money. 1157 00:58:49,760 --> 00:58:51,520 That cost is coming down over time. 1158 00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,960 And and then again, over time, I think search advertising will 1159 00:58:56,560 --> 00:58:59,360 come back into this category and be able to, you know, make this 1160 00:58:59,360 --> 00:59:02,000 really profitable. So that's, but in this early 1161 00:59:02,000 --> 00:59:06,480 stage, we are trying to hone it. We actually have a Slack channel 1162 00:59:06,480 --> 00:59:10,960 called improve Scout and, and hundreds of Yahoo employees are 1163 00:59:10,960 --> 00:59:13,560 in there all the time, like feeding back on what's 1164 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:15,560 happening. We're getting user data in from 1165 00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,280 people coming through it. I mean, it's in the millions of 1166 00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:20,760 people who are, you know, that have been through this and are 1167 00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:24,120 using it. But, you know, at the right 1168 00:59:24,120 --> 00:59:27,080 time, we'll come out of out of beta and want to unleash it 1169 00:59:27,080 --> 00:59:31,000 across all 700 million users. But we just, we're not in a huge 1170 00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,360 hurry to do that yet. Well, I'm cheering for the 1171 00:59:33,360 --> 00:59:36,440 vision of getting traffic back out to the publishers. 1172 00:59:36,440 --> 00:59:38,960 Yeah, man, great to hear it. Thank you so much for coming on 1173 00:59:38,960 --> 00:59:40,680 the Newcomer podcast. Thanks, Eric. 1174 00:59:40,920 --> 00:59:43,440 Great, thanks for sticking around to the end. 1175 00:59:43,440 --> 00:59:45,280 Please. If you've made it this far, 1176 00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:48,520 you've got to like comment, subscribe, excited to grow the 1177 00:59:48,520 --> 00:59:50,760 channel. And of course, you can find our 1178 00:59:50,760 --> 00:59:53,320 writing and reporting on sarps and venture capital at 1179 00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,400 newcomer.co. We also host events. 1180 00:59:57,400 --> 00:59:59,760 You can check out what we're doing at Newcomer dot events, 1181 00:59:59,960 --> 01:00:03,200 share their podcasts, help us get distribution, support the 1182 01:00:03,200 --> 01:00:06,080 channel, comment support, like comment, subscribe. 1183 01:00:06,080 --> 01:00:08,400 You know, you know the deal. Thanks. 1184 01:00:08,600 --> 01:00:09,840 Thanks for being on the journey with us. 1185 01:00:09,920 --> 01:00:10,720 All right, see you next week.