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Hi, I'm Eric Newcomer. 
And I am Madeline Rinbarger. 

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And this is the newcomer 
podcast. 

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Each week, Eric and I discuss 
the VC deals and the drama that 

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went down. 
Let's do it. 

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Here we go. 
Welcome back to the show. 

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Our Co host Eric over here has a
little bit of a cold, but I'm 

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your. 
Parents, I will. 

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I will not be held accountable 
for any of my takes. 

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It's sort of the ideal, you 
know, It's like I was, I, I was 

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loopy, you know, who knew? 
I can't, can't be held 

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accountable for what I say on 
this episode. 

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Lots happened this week in the 
world of DOGE that we definitely

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want to get into. 
I feel like this week it was 

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just Doge 24/7 365. 
They kicked off the week with 

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the Wired story about the the 
young engineers that are working

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behind the scenes in the 
different departments. 

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I do think the the hostility to 
them being young, I I. 

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Yes. 
I do agree with some of the like

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our founders father, we're, 
we're young. 

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I don't, I don't know, youth 
isn't the biggest critique, but 

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I, I don't know, that wired 
story to me was great 

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journalism. 
Like, I sure there was a little 

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spin on the ball in terms of 
being somewhat negative about 

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them, but I feel like all these 
conservatives will be like, Oh 

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my God, that Wired piece ends up
being great for the 'cause you 

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know our cause and they never 
see it the other way, which is 

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like, I guess the piece was 
fairly neutral if you're able to

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read it and make it around. 
The piece, there really wasn't 

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much. 
I mean, obviously people online 

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took to the the youth debate, 
but the piece itself was really 

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just outlining who these people 
are and. 

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There was a little like, you 
know, there are some terms of 

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phrase that were clearly like 
you knew what their point of 

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view was, but I. 
OK, fair, fair. 

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Within the cast of characters, 
you know, in the story, 

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obviously Luke Ferretor, famous 
in our world for, you know, 

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helping to decipher Vesuvius 
scrolls. 

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Very, very impressive. 
But does that qualify you to run

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the federal government? 
What do you think, Eric? 

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Yeah. 
That's a big question. 

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No, I mean, what, what's the, 
the real question is what my, is

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my view on Doge overall. 
I mean, certainly ingenious that

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the way you're going to cut 
government spending is to go 

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straight to the payments rails, 
which I think is Elon's 

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observation in a very tech 
person way of going about it. 

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My take is one that I believe in
the balance of powers and that 

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they're literally ignoring 
Congress is the first branch of 

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government is supposed to decide
where money is going, and that 

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this is sort of against the 
constitutional system in any 

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normal way. 
So I think it's bad for that 

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reason. 
I also think the government and 

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all of us should be good for our
word and that a lot of the money

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they're cancelling is like, oh, 
we told you you were going to be

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involved in a clinical trial and
now we're going to like, is this

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around? 
No. 

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Plan the USAID cancellation, 
yeah. 

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There's lots of them where it's 
like their clinical trials, 

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there's like you're depending on
us for HIV medication. 

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And just like there's an 
implicit, some of these, there's

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probably like an explicit 
contract, but some of it, 

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there's an implicit contract, 
which is we're in the middle of 

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something, you know, you see it 
through to the end. 

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Like, it'd be one thing if 
they're like, we're going to 

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wind these things down. 
But yeah, I mean, I, I've 

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thought in Elon's private 
dealings, he's too willing to 

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not pay rent and to be sort of a
bad dealer with people. 

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And the government should be 
even more ethical. 

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So I I don't agree with their 
way of doing business, but the 

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larger issue is just the idea 
that the president should be a 

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CEO when we have a 
constitutional democracy, right?

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I mean, I feel like it's, it's 
really an ideological clash 

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happening right now, right? 
Like this, this sort of mindset 

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of, you know, running the 
government like a business and 

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looking for efficiencies and 
flashbacks of the the Twitter X 

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purchase, you know, are coming 
back in the massive scale with 

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the federal government. 
But does that make sense for the

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federal government that within 
the rule of law, like contracts,

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how we honor them, we honor the 
balance of powers. 

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It's interesting. 
To I just, I just don't even, I 

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don't think this is that 
thoughtful. 

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Like if they were really worried
about balancing the budget, you 

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know, Social Security and 
Medicare and Medicaid and 

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defence spending. 
I was gonna say defence. 

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Spending. 
Is the is the biggest one right 

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there and obviously that and 
also involves SpaceX contracts. 

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So those are those are staying 
safe I assume? 

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They're they're clearly, I mean,
I think they've said in some 

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places, you know, they're 
they're going after, you know, 

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the deep state and the liberal 
elites or whatever, where they 

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are, whatever they think they 
are. 

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And this is sort of culture war 
as much as cutting spending 

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because, you know, Trump just 
proposed huge tax cuts that 

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would definitely swamp any cuts 
that they've done. 

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The debate around also who's 
doing the cuts was we touched on

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before the Wall Street Journal 
had a really big piece come out 

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that now is just earning the ire
of the entire doge sector, 

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including Elon Musk himself. 
About Marco Alez, the 25 year 

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old who was, you know, hired by 
Department of Government 

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efficiency, but his, you know, 
alt accounts got found and he'd 

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been posting a lot of racist 
memes and conspiracy theories 

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allegedly. 
And of course, that led to his 

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resignation, which now is doxing
and a witch. 

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Hunt a lot of a lot of times you
have to put racist in quotes, 

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but here's one of his lines just
for the record. 

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I was racist before it was cool.
Another one you could not pay me

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to marry outside my ethnicity 
normalize Indian hate. 

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You know, it's just like. 
That's pretty explicit. 

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I don't really know what else 
you would call that. 

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I mean, you could call it 
ironic, but it's pretty 

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straightforward. 
Well, that's always their game 

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that it's like, oh, it's a 
troll, sort of, you know, of. 

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Course you fell for the bait. 
Why? 

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You take me seriously? 
Yeah. 

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And and Elon is running a poll 
now bring back Doge staffer who 

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made inappropriate, 
inappropriate statements via a 

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now deleted pseudonym. 
And Elon, of course, is calling 

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the Wall Street Journal 
reporter. 

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I think he called her disgusting
at one point. 

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To be in the ire of Elon, 
Twitter is something I would 

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never wish upon anyone at this 
point. 

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But the story is solid. 
The reporting is solid. 

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I think again, when it comes 
back to this debate around, is 

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this doc saying when you sign up
to work for the government, 

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you're a public figure, like 
that's that's the trade off you 

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make right there. 
Your information is accessible 

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and your history will probably 
be combed through because it's 

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in the public interest now. 
I, I, I think this might be Mark

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Andreessenism. 
You know, it's just like doxing 

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has become such a like, it's 
like when I, when you're doing 

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it against my ends, it's doxing 
And, and when it's the other 

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side, it's, you know, something 
else. 

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I I feel like doxing has become 
a useless word. 

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It's become totally meaningless.
Yeah, it's what? 

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What does doxing really entail? 
Lots of times people accuse 

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doing the work of journalism is 
doxing at this point. 

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And I mean the left certainly I 
mean deserves a lot of blame for

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elevating the word doxing. 
Oh, no question. 

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Absolutely. 
I mean, again, this, this goes 

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both ways. 
It's just in this case right 

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now, it's going this way. 
I find Elon Musk and his network

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of supporters on X and his 
platforms kind of sticking all 

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of the attention on Catherine 
Long's reporting at this point 

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and her personally with all 
these attacks, beyond just my 

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personal connection to her, we 
work together. 

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Business Insider, she's a 
fantastic reporter. 

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This is a really, really good 
story. 

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I think the implication that is 
maybe getting lost in this 

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conversation is that it's one 
thing when he did this as a 

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private citizen, but now he's 
working for the government. 

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And when you have an army of 
trolls that are now in some way 

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sanctioned by the like the 
leader of the free world and the

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entire apparatus of the state 
behind you, the implications of 

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this are a lot more serious than
maybe it was just a few months 

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ago. 
Elon is constantly saying he 

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believes in like transparency 
and we're going to have great 

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disclosure. 
And then they're upset when 

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there's reporting about what's 
going on and they're angry about

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naming the people who are doing 
the work of government and that 

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they're not very transparent and
they're bullying. 

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So yeah, I, I think he's pretty 
reprehensible. 

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The, my only minor thing is that
I do think reporters are just, 

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we're in the arena. 
People want to scream at us like

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we're part of. 
Figures too, yeah. 

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Certainly, I don't think, you 
know, Elon and Trump run a 

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government that's, you know, 
sufficiently appreciative of 

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journalism and that they're 
often trying to make journalism 

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less pleasant to do when I 
believe in journalism. 

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So I think good 
institutionalists would be 

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making journalism more pleasant 
to do. 

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But but yeah, they are trying to
make it as unpleasant to do 

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journalism as possible. 
I think that's bad and 

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reprehensible. 
But the reality is, as 

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journalists, if we want to 
succeed, we sort of have to 

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tough it out and people are 
going to Boo at us on Twitter. 

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And most of the time that's 
basically it. 

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But obviously, you know, if it 
starts getting into the real 

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world that that becomes more 
serious. 

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Moving on to our next topic. 
Feels like a a lateral move 

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rather than a full recircling 
this whole issue Daniel Penny, 

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newest employee and investor at 
A16Z. 

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He's notable within the New York
circles at least, of news for 

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being involved in an engine on 
the subway, yes, for restraining

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in in a chokehold. 
Unhoused man Jordan Neely on the

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subway who ended up dying from 
the incident. 

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He was acquitted from all 
charges regarding that incident.

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Now he's investing at A16Z. 
An investing partner. 

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On the American Dynamism team, 
which focuses, yes, on defense, 

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but also government, tech, 
education, anything that really 

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touches the national interest, 
if you will. 

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DI for vigilantes isn't isn't 
the best subway vigilante now 

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maybe this is the Lib speaking 
isn't the best one somebody who 

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doesn't kill the person they're 
intervening on like I I feel 

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like the most successful subway 
intervener is like deescalate or

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at least like stop restraining 
person to the point of death. 

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So I don't know if they're 
looking for a subway vigilante. 

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I'm sure there are many unsung 
heroes. 

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I don't really know if that 
necessarily makes people feel 

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safer if we're, you know, 
thinking about investing in 

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concepts of public safety, 
although obviously many people 

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disagree. 
He's been lauded by many people 

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online as a hero of sort, 
depending on where your 

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political affiliations lie. 
And my main thing about all of 

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this is I'm a little unsure of 
his investing qualifications to 

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be on this team. 
I think he certainly has 

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military experience and that is 
useful for the American Dynamism

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Fund and focus, but that doesn't
necessarily make one a great VC.

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I could be. 
Wrong. 

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Lots of VCs don't know what 
they're doing. 

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I don't know. 
I feel like that's the sort of 

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like savvy way to I don't know 
why I get the strategy is this 

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guy is, you know, meeting with 
Donald Trump and like American 

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dynamism certainly could do with
boosting its right wing 

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credentials in the world where 
the Defense Secretary is 

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hardcore MAGA. 
So I get the tactical position. 

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It also feels like, you know 
what, during the Democratic, you

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know, Obama, Biden period, it's 
like, OK, we're going to hire 

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diverse people like they want 
and show that we're proactive. 

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We're going to have a diverse 
fund. 

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Now in the Trump era where, you 
know, white men think, oh, we 

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should get our due. 
We're going to hire the most 

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disaffected of disaffected white
guys and give them a job. 

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So in some ways it is exactly 
the same sort of diversity style

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that we saw in the last term, 
which is like, all right, we'll 

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give a handout to these guys 
now. 

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00:12:00,520 --> 00:12:06,040
You know, I what troubles me the
most is like the the violence, 

226
00:12:06,040 --> 00:12:09,440
the violence in this like the, 
you know, the right wing trolley

227
00:12:09,440 --> 00:12:13,000
culture, you know, with the guy 
we were just talking about in 

228
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doge, you know, the real danger 
is if it gets sort of violent 

229
00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:19,360
and it shows an interest in 
violence. 

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00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,000
I just think, you know, hiring 
somebody who, even if they're 

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00:12:23,000 --> 00:12:26,560
acquitted, was clearly involved 
in violence. 

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00:12:27,280 --> 00:12:31,040
It's hard not to think of the 
sort of celebrity that a lot of 

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00:12:31,040 --> 00:12:33,320
right wing media made Kyle 
Rittenhouse to be. 

234
00:12:33,440 --> 00:12:35,320
It's obviously that is a 
completely different scale. 

235
00:12:35,320 --> 00:12:39,240
That is a much more that 
multiple people were killed, 

236
00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,400
that he was armed. 
It was a completely different 

237
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situation. 
However, there are flashes of 

238
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this where when a high profile 
trial comes around and gets very

239
00:12:47,360 --> 00:12:51,240
politicized in this way, there's
a tendency among those in right 

240
00:12:51,240 --> 00:12:54,800
wing media circles to make, you 
know, cause celeb out of people 

241
00:12:54,800 --> 00:12:58,280
who are charged in this case. 
And I think that that is maybe 

242
00:12:58,280 --> 00:13:02,440
overshadowing whatever his 
potential investing prowess 

243
00:13:02,440 --> 00:13:05,000
could be right now. 
It's one thing to make some sort

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00:13:05,000 --> 00:13:08,200
of, you know, he shouldn't be 
found guilty, you know, as a 

245
00:13:08,200 --> 00:13:12,360
muddy situation, but to 
celebrate somebody like is 

246
00:13:12,360 --> 00:13:14,480
insane. 
Moving on to the next Twitter X 

247
00:13:14,480 --> 00:13:17,520
Controversy of the week. 
Eric, you got a little involved 

248
00:13:17,520 --> 00:13:20,720
in the heat map discourse. 
Yeah, I've been very involved, 

249
00:13:20,720 --> 00:13:22,640
so. 
A little involved is a little, 

250
00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,640
you know, OK, I was, I was 
playing it down. 

251
00:13:24,680 --> 00:13:28,600
But I've emailed the authors of 
the paper underpinning this 

252
00:13:28,600 --> 00:13:30,520
whole controversy. 
Level involved. 

253
00:13:30,560 --> 00:13:33,680
OK, you know, on right wing 
Twitter, there has been this 

254
00:13:33,680 --> 00:13:39,800
heat map that shows the moral 
sentiments of liberals and right

255
00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:45,360
wingers, which seems to show 
that right wingers care a lot 

256
00:13:45,360 --> 00:13:49,040
about their family and less 
about animals and less about 

257
00:13:49,040 --> 00:13:50,800
rocks. 
It's like, how far does your 

258
00:13:50,800 --> 00:13:55,280
moral lane extend out? 
And liberals, from the heat map,

259
00:13:55,280 --> 00:13:58,960
it seems like wow, they care a 
lot about like rocks and animals

260
00:13:59,160 --> 00:14:00,800
and not very much about their 
family. 

261
00:14:00,800 --> 00:14:02,440
OK. 
And so? 

262
00:14:02,600 --> 00:14:06,360
I've never beating the 
allegations of before I became a

263
00:14:06,360 --> 00:14:07,640
journalist. 
I don't know if you know this, 

264
00:14:07,640 --> 00:14:11,320
Eric, I at one point wanted to 
be a geologist and almost 

265
00:14:11,320 --> 00:14:13,800
considered that as a focus 
before switching gears to media.

266
00:14:13,800 --> 00:14:17,520
So, and I feel like based on, 
you know, I don't know, as part 

267
00:14:17,520 --> 00:14:20,080
of the we have our opinion note 
on this show. 

268
00:14:20,080 --> 00:14:22,600
So maybe that's true. 
I don't know, Maybe I care about

269
00:14:22,600 --> 00:14:25,400
rocks. 
My, my sister is a marine 

270
00:14:25,400 --> 00:14:29,200
biologist who studies coral 
reefs and she loves those coral 

271
00:14:29,200 --> 00:14:32,360
reefs. 
Coral reef, you know, intertitle

272
00:14:32,360 --> 00:14:34,520
benthic zones. 
I think she studies even less 

273
00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:37,360
romantic things than corals with
that type of creature. 

274
00:14:37,360 --> 00:14:42,800
So in some ways she loves rocks.
But anyway, the study was really

275
00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:46,800
about how far does your moral 
lens extend out? 

276
00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:50,840
You know, you're saying you care
about anything this and below. 

277
00:14:50,920 --> 00:14:53,840
Well, the heat map really makes 
it look like you're insane and 

278
00:14:53,840 --> 00:14:57,440
you don't care about your own 
wife, you know, And so, you 

279
00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:00,840
know, it's one of these things 
where the right you hope is 

280
00:15:00,840 --> 00:15:04,880
intentionally just is committing
propaganda, though they want to 

281
00:15:04,880 --> 00:15:07,680
other us to such an extent that 
they're like, see, these people 

282
00:15:07,680 --> 00:15:10,680
don't even love their own kids, 
you know, which it just doesn't 

283
00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:13,240
doesn't make any sense. 
And obviously as a liberal, I'm 

284
00:15:13,240 --> 00:15:18,280
like getting criticized for 
caring about more people. 

285
00:15:18,280 --> 00:15:22,080
And you know, as someone who 
studied philosophy, you know, to

286
00:15:22,080 --> 00:15:26,000
me, you know, protecting my wife
is in myself interest is 

287
00:15:26,000 --> 00:15:29,240
basically protecting myself. 
Like doing something moral for 

288
00:15:29,240 --> 00:15:32,400
someone disconnected from me is 
the only is much more moral. 

289
00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:36,040
It's like what I'm protecting my
wife for my own interests, you 

290
00:15:36,040 --> 00:15:38,560
know, so their view of morality 
is like insane. 

291
00:15:38,600 --> 00:15:41,920
But but anyway, just as an 
empirical thing, liberals should

292
00:15:41,920 --> 00:15:44,080
be getting credit. 
We care about more people not 

293
00:15:44,480 --> 00:15:47,680
like and anyway, Marc Andreessen
is tweeting this out and the 

294
00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:50,440
conservatives have been using as
a reason to get angry. 

295
00:15:50,440 --> 00:15:53,600
And I think finally Scott 
Alexander, you know, a slate 

296
00:15:53,600 --> 00:15:57,320
star codex or whatever is new 
astral codex who hysterically 

297
00:15:57,320 --> 00:15:59,960
right was the foe of the New 
York Times for a while is now 

298
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:04,280
like I think sort of not on the 
Andreessen side of the the 

299
00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:06,520
universe. 
I think articulated an 

300
00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,000
explanation of this and it says 
a lot of things. 

301
00:16:09,000 --> 00:16:15,720
But one is just the ongoing 
efforts of Republicans to other 

302
00:16:15,960 --> 00:16:20,880
liberals to be dumb and not 
worry about the facts, to get 

303
00:16:20,880 --> 00:16:24,160
angry so that they can be like, 
oh, liberals are barely people. 

304
00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,960
I mean, you know, Richard Haney 
is constantly saying that 

305
00:16:27,960 --> 00:16:32,520
there's no elite human capital 
among conservatives and sort of 

306
00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:34,760
agree. 
But it's really sad that Marc 

307
00:16:34,760 --> 00:16:37,080
Andreessen is doing this because
obviously Marc Andreessen is 

308
00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:40,840
extremely smart. 
And so it's either he cares so 

309
00:16:40,840 --> 00:16:43,600
little about the facts. 
And the final irony is this is a

310
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,520
set of people who doesn't 
believe in social science 

311
00:16:46,720 --> 00:16:49,560
holding up a social science 
report that they haven't even 

312
00:16:49,560 --> 00:16:52,160
scrutinized. 
So it's just like, clear, it's 

313
00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:55,880
just like the most obvious 
propaganda thing in the world. 

314
00:16:56,320 --> 00:16:58,440
And yeah, it's just like 
infuriating. 

315
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:01,920
Like to me, a good social 
network, like what I want social

316
00:17:01,920 --> 00:17:05,560
networks to get is I want to be 
able to be like anybody uses 

317
00:17:05,560 --> 00:17:08,160
this image is like so 
disqualifying to me that I want 

318
00:17:08,160 --> 00:17:10,760
to write them out of my 
intellectual debate and sort of 

319
00:17:10,760 --> 00:17:12,839
move forward in a world without 
them. 

320
00:17:12,839 --> 00:17:16,400
And I'd love somebody to create 
the social network that says, I 

321
00:17:16,400 --> 00:17:18,160
don't know you've you've 3 
strikes. 

322
00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,319
You're out too many, like 
egregious intellectual sins and 

323
00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:23,880
not a centralized thing. 
But I want to be able to spend 

324
00:17:23,880 --> 00:17:26,079
the time and be like, no, you're
in. 

325
00:17:26,240 --> 00:17:28,720
This post was obviously fake and
dumb. 

326
00:17:28,720 --> 00:17:31,960
Like cut these people out of my 
life if they're do this three 

327
00:17:31,960 --> 00:17:34,640
times or whatever. 
So someone please build out for 

328
00:17:34,640 --> 00:17:36,960
me. 
I'd start up idea right here on 

329
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:37,960
the pod. 
You're welcome. 

330
00:17:37,960 --> 00:17:41,080
Free start up ideas if we're 
going to live in this world of 

331
00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:43,240
anonymity. 
I mean, it's not just an 

332
00:17:43,240 --> 00:17:45,920
anonymity problem if Marc 
Andreessen is tweeting it out, 

333
00:17:45,920 --> 00:17:50,120
but it anonymity is part of the 
problem, which is we have to be 

334
00:17:50,120 --> 00:17:52,960
able to assess people's 
reputations by what they're 

335
00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:56,320
posting versus who they are. 
Okay, enough politics. 

336
00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:58,040
We restrained ourselves in 
print. 

337
00:17:58,040 --> 00:18:00,760
So we said on air we can opine, 
but we did. 

338
00:18:00,880 --> 00:18:03,800
We have talked about the 
business of Silicon Valley this 

339
00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:05,200
week. 
You looked at the metaverse 

340
00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,280
world, which is sort of out of 
favor at the moment. 

341
00:18:07,280 --> 00:18:09,560
What's going on? 
I did, yes. 

342
00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:11,920
So jumping into the metaverse 
was fun. 

343
00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,920
I hadn't been there in a couple 
years, so great to be back. 

344
00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:16,360
Love to see who's still hanging 
out there. 

345
00:18:16,560 --> 00:18:19,760
No, but the big story really 
came from the Financial Times. 

346
00:18:19,760 --> 00:18:22,840
Had a good piece about Metas 
annual report and that they've 

347
00:18:22,840 --> 00:18:27,880
spent I think in the last year 
close to $20 billion on their AR

348
00:18:27,880 --> 00:18:30,920
glasses and that those have 
really honestly been a growth 

349
00:18:30,920 --> 00:18:33,240
area for them. 
They've been losing money 

350
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,000
overall. 
It's looking promising and it's 

351
00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:37,560
picking up. 
And so they're willing to invest

352
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:41,880
even more money into this space.
What's going on with Apples ARVR

353
00:18:41,880 --> 00:18:43,040
efforts? 
Right. 

354
00:18:43,040 --> 00:18:46,040
So at the end of the year, the 
information reported news that 

355
00:18:46,040 --> 00:18:49,440
they were winding down some of 
their scaled production of the 

356
00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:51,480
vision pro headset. 
They're not fully shutting it 

357
00:18:51,480 --> 00:18:54,240
down, but it's not looking like 
it's going to be a huge 

358
00:18:54,240 --> 00:18:56,240
investment space for them going 
forward. 

359
00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:58,640
Sales weren't really great. 
It does seem like, you know, in 

360
00:18:58,640 --> 00:19:01,640
my reporting around the 
metaverse, the the issue 

361
00:19:01,680 --> 00:19:04,000
sometimes just comes down to the
headset itself. 

362
00:19:04,000 --> 00:19:06,880
People buy a headset, it's fun, 
they enjoy it, but there's a 

363
00:19:07,000 --> 00:19:09,280
there's an issue of people 
picking it back up, you know, 

364
00:19:09,760 --> 00:19:14,120
and it's it's a fun novelty for 
a bit, but it is bulky and heavy

365
00:19:14,120 --> 00:19:16,480
on your head. 
And there's something to be said

366
00:19:16,480 --> 00:19:20,520
for wearable tech like Meta's 
ray ban glasses to where you can

367
00:19:20,520 --> 00:19:23,400
get them to your prescription 
and they only fit, you know this

368
00:19:23,400 --> 00:19:25,080
they're the size of normal 
glasses. 

369
00:19:25,120 --> 00:19:29,520
But while Meta is still doubling
down on tech with these glasses 

370
00:19:29,520 --> 00:19:32,960
and spending in Reality Labs, 
nobody else is basically. 

371
00:19:32,960 --> 00:19:35,760
And even the VCs who are I've 
talked to who are definitely see

372
00:19:35,760 --> 00:19:40,080
use cases, they're seeing them 
more in gaming where this kind 

373
00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:42,360
of already was, right? 
Like this is what this tech was 

374
00:19:42,360 --> 00:19:44,360
sort of optimized for in the 
beginning. 

375
00:19:44,360 --> 00:19:47,280
And they're also seeing it in 
education and training, which 

376
00:19:47,280 --> 00:19:50,280
are really important use cases. 
But I don't see that scaling to 

377
00:19:50,280 --> 00:19:53,040
be the next, you know, trillion 
dollar company. 

378
00:19:53,040 --> 00:19:55,080
Right. 
What what I had this, this, you 

379
00:19:55,080 --> 00:19:58,800
know, the AI thesis that it, you
know, AI is generative like 

380
00:19:58,800 --> 00:20:01,560
we'll create. 
Generative VR worlds? 

381
00:20:01,720 --> 00:20:04,360
Did you see any hints at that? 
I mean, that's certainly. 

382
00:20:04,360 --> 00:20:07,280
Is that Minecraft company? 
Yeah, Descartes, they're 

383
00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:12,000
partnering with Etched, the edge
case chip maker to build a 

384
00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:15,840
playable AI model that is kind 
of based off of Minecraft, but 

385
00:20:15,840 --> 00:20:18,320
it's generative. 
So as you play it, the model is 

386
00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:21,320
generating new worlds that you 
can explore, which is really 

387
00:20:21,560 --> 00:20:23,280
cool. 
I mean Minecraft, especially in 

388
00:20:23,280 --> 00:20:27,160
these social games, you want 
more worlds to build and explore

389
00:20:27,160 --> 00:20:30,400
in mine and that's. 
Certainly without the game 

390
00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:34,000
engine, right, Like it just sort
of general, it's the same sort 

391
00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:37,160
of predictive model that you'd 
use for text, right? 

392
00:20:37,280 --> 00:20:41,080
So it's there is an underlying 
logic I think is what's part of 

393
00:20:41,080 --> 00:20:43,320
what's interesting about it. 
Yeah, not necessarily. 

394
00:20:43,320 --> 00:20:46,720
That's right. 
So there's companies doing this.

395
00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:51,440
This company Saga is building 
the infrastructure on blockchain

396
00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:55,520
for game developers to build 
agents off of using generative 

397
00:20:55,520 --> 00:20:57,840
AI. 
So we combined, you know, agents

398
00:20:57,840 --> 00:21:00,640
and blockchain in one pitch. 
Seems like what they're doing is

399
00:21:00,640 --> 00:21:02,320
taking off. 
Well, they've got a new investor

400
00:21:02,320 --> 00:21:05,440
interest from M13. 
So certainly there are places in

401
00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,520
this space that are still 
attracting interest from 

402
00:21:08,520 --> 00:21:11,960
investors who know the space and
they've kind of pinned it as a 

403
00:21:12,000 --> 00:21:15,720
category they want to invest in.
It's just not the wave that it 

404
00:21:15,720 --> 00:21:19,000
was, you know, before. 
And in some ways the the 

405
00:21:19,120 --> 00:21:22,400
hardware part of the tech is 
something that is better suited 

406
00:21:22,400 --> 00:21:26,200
to a meta or someone with, you 
know, gobs of cash than maybe a 

407
00:21:26,200 --> 00:21:29,760
venture model right now. 
And perhaps the apps and the 

408
00:21:29,760 --> 00:21:32,760
software will come further down 
the line if they nail the 

409
00:21:32,760 --> 00:21:34,480
hardware. 
But it's always five years out. 

410
00:21:34,480 --> 00:21:36,640
That's what everyone tells me. 
In five years, we'll all adapt 

411
00:21:36,640 --> 00:21:39,160
this, you know? 
And every year it's five years 

412
00:21:39,160 --> 00:21:40,120
later, right? 
I don't. 

413
00:21:40,800 --> 00:21:42,800
Eric, you've been covering this 
space longer than I have. 

414
00:21:42,800 --> 00:21:45,040
But it seems like it just keeps 
getting pushed farther and 

415
00:21:45,040 --> 00:21:46,160
farther back. 
Yeah. 

416
00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:50,720
And yet I believe, you know, I 
don't know, I do think device 

417
00:21:50,720 --> 00:21:54,360
quality or you know, iPhone 
really took off at the App Store

418
00:21:54,360 --> 00:21:57,200
or some, you know, it's hard to 
know sometimes what, what really

419
00:21:57,200 --> 00:22:01,960
triggers something. 
So AR worlds and VR worlds, 

420
00:22:01,960 --> 00:22:04,560
we're rooting for you. 
Moving on to our final story of 

421
00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,400
the week, Eric, you got the 
scoop on General Catalysts 

422
00:22:07,400 --> 00:22:09,600
fundraising docs. 
What did you find? 

423
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:11,360
Yeah. 
I mean, we're super interested 

424
00:22:11,360 --> 00:22:14,200
in these mega funds, you know, 
General Catalysts, which had 

425
00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:17,000
raised, you know, an $8 billion 
suite of funds. 

426
00:22:17,000 --> 00:22:21,120
There's Lightspeed, there's 
Andreessen, obviously Sequoia I 

427
00:22:21,120 --> 00:22:23,800
think fits the bill, but I don't
know that they want to use that 

428
00:22:23,800 --> 00:22:27,080
word megaphone anyway. 
So I mean, General Catalyst I 

429
00:22:27,080 --> 00:22:29,120
think is the most expressed in 
that. 

430
00:22:29,920 --> 00:22:33,240
Hey, Montanasia, the CEO is 
calling himself the CEO these 

431
00:22:33,240 --> 00:22:34,720
days. 
He's referring to it as a 

432
00:22:35,040 --> 00:22:36,920
company. 
They announced a wealth man. 

433
00:22:36,920 --> 00:22:39,840
We call them a firm still, but 
they they announced that they're

434
00:22:39,840 --> 00:22:41,720
becoming a wealth manager. 
They have a debt fund. 

435
00:22:41,720 --> 00:22:45,520
They bought a hospital. 
So echoing a lot of the stuff 

436
00:22:45,520 --> 00:22:47,560
you see in the private equity 
industry. 

437
00:22:47,960 --> 00:22:52,280
And so yeah, I got somewhat 
dated, but still telling fund 

438
00:22:52,280 --> 00:22:55,760
return information. 
I mean, it's, it's very wonky in

439
00:22:55,760 --> 00:22:58,200
particular. 
So you should subscribe and 

440
00:22:58,200 --> 00:23:00,480
become a paid subscriber to read
it. 

441
00:23:00,480 --> 00:23:04,520
We have a bunch of slides. 
I mean, basically the first one 

442
00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,680
is only .7% IRR. 
So I guess good news for new 

443
00:23:08,680 --> 00:23:13,520
venture funds that you can 
survive a pretty middling first 

444
00:23:13,520 --> 00:23:18,200
fund then. 
Then it's 11.9 percent, 9.9%. 

445
00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:23,320
They really have their first 
like great fund in their 2011 

446
00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:25,640
vintage fund. 
I think it was mostly driven by 

447
00:23:25,640 --> 00:23:28,000
Stripe, but I'm sure there were 
other companies. 

448
00:23:28,120 --> 00:23:31,760
This presentation doesn't get 
into the particular portfolio 

449
00:23:32,160 --> 00:23:35,680
and you know that the numbers 
I'm citing are dated December 

450
00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:42,600
31st, 2020. 
So that fund had a 7.16 X NVPI, 

451
00:23:42,600 --> 00:23:46,840
which is like net T VPI. 
So presumably there was a lot of

452
00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,480
money potentially still to come.
You know, I thought the other 

453
00:23:50,480 --> 00:23:53,680
thing is like while investors 
were considering whethering to 

454
00:23:53,720 --> 00:23:57,920
invest in this latest 8 billion 
group of funds, you know, they 

455
00:23:57,920 --> 00:24:00,720
didn't have a lot of evidence 
that general catalysts like 

456
00:24:00,720 --> 00:24:03,440
billion plus funds have done 
well. 

457
00:24:03,440 --> 00:24:05,320
You know, it's just like they're
not that old. 

458
00:24:05,680 --> 00:24:09,320
They've barely returned any 
money as of the fundraising 

459
00:24:09,320 --> 00:24:12,000
documents. 
And so I think that's going to 

460
00:24:12,000 --> 00:24:13,920
be a big question with all these
mega funds. 

461
00:24:13,920 --> 00:24:17,800
You know, you're investing in 
the funds on the basis of their 

462
00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,800
performance as more traditional 
venture capital firms, but now 

463
00:24:21,800 --> 00:24:25,600
they're asking you to bet on 
these sort of multi strategy 

464
00:24:25,920 --> 00:24:30,640
private equity styled funds. 
And will their old performance 

465
00:24:30,680 --> 00:24:34,160
match their future performance? 
And that's what we don't know 

466
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:35,640
yet. 
Yeah, we'll have to wait and see

467
00:24:35,640 --> 00:24:37,880
on that one, but it's it's a big
gamble. 

468
00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:42,360
Yeah, I mean, the GCS ambitious,
Andreessen's ambitious, and like

469
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:45,840
a lot of these things rise and 
fall with the tech industry 

470
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:47,440
overall. 
You know, if they're huge funds 

471
00:24:47,440 --> 00:24:50,600
and they get in a lot of the key
stuff in Silicon Valley, and 

472
00:24:50,600 --> 00:24:54,440
Silicon Valley has some big 
hitters, then they can do well. 

473
00:24:54,520 --> 00:24:56,840
But you have to get in them, you
know, you have to be in Strike 

474
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,640
Andreessen's and data bricks. 
You know, it does end up being 

475
00:24:59,640 --> 00:25:03,240
these the big companies really 
matter. 

476
00:25:03,320 --> 00:25:06,120
That's our show. 
Everyone say feel better, Eric. 

477
00:25:06,800 --> 00:25:10,120
We'll be back next week with 
more news in startups and 

478
00:25:10,120 --> 00:25:12,720
venture capital. 
Healthier team, newcomer team 

479
00:25:12,800 --> 00:25:15,440
Health Restful weekend. 
Yeah, exactly. 

480
00:25:16,000 --> 00:25:16,720
All right. 
Thanks. 

481
00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:17,640
Thanks.