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Come with me and let's build the
future together. 

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What do you think? 
When I say, workspace, cubicles,

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ugly Furniture, bad fluorescent,
lighting, death except lie. 

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I'm Travis kalanick, and I will 
never back down from a fight. 

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And if no one wants to believe 
in me, I'll make them believe by

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being undeniable, you know, 
you're on your way up. 

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And they slap a Target on your 
back, we're deceiving the most 

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powerful tech company in the 
world. 

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We are disruptors because that 
is what Revolution requires, 

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what if you can test your blood 
in your own home and what if it 

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wasn't a whole file, but just 
you drop. 

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I'm going to drop out of 
Stanford, this machine going to 

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change the world. 
Welcome. 

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Hey, everybody. 
It's dead cat Tom here, joined 

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by Katie and Eric, got a very 
special episode for you guys 

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today, we've been waiting to do 
this for a long time, but we are

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in the midst of the golden age, 
of television shows about tech 

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companies. 
It's a bubble upon a bubble, 

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upon a bubble, has has resulted 
in and what we are going to talk

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about today. 
Because first, we have the 

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Belove books about tech company 
implosions. 

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And then we had the bubble of 
podcasts about books about tech 

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company, implosions. 
And then we have the streaming 

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shows about the podcast that are
sometimes based on the books 

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about tech company. 
Implosions, it's Turtles all the

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way down here. 
But who better to talk about 

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this than people who have 
written about? 

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These companies have watched all
the fucking shows I've been 

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sitting in my room, it's a 
bright sunny day, the birds are 

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chirping. 
I had the blinds pulled down and

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I'm just like bitch. 
You watching we crashed and the 

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drop out that there are no show.
Yes. 

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So a lot of TV has been consumed
for my job recently. 

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Yeah over a short period of 
time. 

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Yeah I was watching last night 
then I got too tired. 

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I went to bed and then I woke up
and watch two more sitting in 

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bed and then I watched another, 
I finished the episode that I 

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watched on TV in the morning. 
So I am, I'm saturated in this 

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shit but so we've got three 
shows here, right? 

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We have super pumped, which is 
The Uber show which we've talked

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about before on dead cat, when 
Mike came on, we've got we 

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crashed, which is the we work 
show. 

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And we've got the Dropout, which
is the Thera no-show. 

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Are they text shows? 
Or are they fraud shows right? 

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I haven't seen inventing Anna 
but I do think there's an 

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argument there like the Soul at 
least of like the Dropout and we

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crashed is more about like 
fraudsters, they're almost like 

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following the fire Festival 
Spirit the hucksters. 

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Spirit and seem to sort of jump 
to my take seem like good post 

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trumpian dealing with that whole
era stories about, like, 

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fraudsters in a way that they're
more about that to me than the 

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tech industry and to some 
degree. 

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The Uber show to me struggles 
because it's too much about 

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tech. 
Yeah, I agree like these shows 

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are at their best when they 
Embrace not just like the 

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characters at the center of it. 
But when they are about the 

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fraud, basically, the deception,
Is that something everyone can 

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relate to? 
You know, like discussing, you 

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know, roadshows for funding 
rounds, is not interesting to 

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most people. 
It's barely interesting to us 

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but when it's about, you know, 
deception and it's why I think, 

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you know, their nose remains 
absent of these shows but their 

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nose Remains the best story of 
all of them because it's the 

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clearest con, right? 
It's like this was someone who 

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misled investors. 
Claim that a product did things 

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that I couldn't do and directly 
affected people's lives. 

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I know we need to talk about 
B-but when we were writing those

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stories seven years or whatever 
it is now yeah, weren't to some 

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extent we writing about fraud, I
mean that was the narrative 

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tension of those reported 
stories as well. 

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Some degree it was like we've 
been giving you stories about 

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funding rounds. 
We've been giving you stories 

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about pretty dry Silicon Valley 
jargon. 

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But here's a story that we're 
putting on the front page 

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because it's about fraud, right?
Totally. 

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Yeah. 
And the fact, yeah, and the fact

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that it got to the front page of
like, the New York Times, was 

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because it had a A larger 
repeal. 

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I mean, theranos the times 
covered the trial, you know, 

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minute by minute though, we 
should say at the outset here, 

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Adam Newman there's no crew like
there's criminality, you know, 

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Elizabeth Holmes has been 
convicted of something, right? 

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It was clear concept, Travis 
kalanick and Adam Newman just 

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were pushed out of their jobs. 
They in some in Newman's case 

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got a lot of money for leaving 
his job, you know they haven't 

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been charged with anything so 
fraud is maybe a Dangerous word 

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to use there tied up in hype and
you know, whatever. 

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But we should be careful. 
I mean there is a truth that 

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Elizabeth Holmes sort of has 
really done something of a 

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different type or sort that I 
think you like it. 

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Yeah when we were writing when 
we were reporting the stories 

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part of the thing that was being
explored is what is the fine 

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line, if to the extent that it 
is fine between Behavior, that's

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going to get in trouble with the
law and Behavior. 

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That is going, that is somehow 
immoral or wrong. 

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And both of those questions are 
very human stories, which is why

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they were able to have such 
broad broad interest, right? 

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And they also I think you know 
beyond just the fact that these 

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were all venture capital funded 
companies, well, arguable with 

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their nose but you know Tech 
story is the thing that ties 

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them all together is that these 
were, you know, people at the 

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center of it, who sort of let 
things spiral out of control. 

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What one way or another right? 
It's like it's very American 

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story. 
It's like every Coen Brothers 

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movie, it's like 11 deception, 
One Lie. 

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One thing kind of escapes their 
grasp and then suddenly it all 

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sort of tumbles into chaos. 
It's Icarus. 

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I want to start with. 
We work our we crashed because 

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it was the one that I initially 
when I was texting you guys had 

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said that it was my least 
favorite of the three. 

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And really, I don't, I'd only 
seen half of it. 

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I've now seen more of the show. 
I think it may be my favorite is

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my favorite by far. 
I think it would be my favorite 

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of the three and I was not 
expecting that. 

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I watch The Uber one first. 
Then I saw that their nose when 

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I was like, oh, this is way 
better than the Uber one. 

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And now I love the Thera no 
show. 

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There are no show is good, she's
Amanda see fret. 

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House is really good. 
I mean, she feels like Elizabeth

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Holmes, almost more than any I 
She's the she's very good at 

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authentic but but honestly, Anne
Hathaway is just so compelling 

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as Rebecca Newman that I feel 
like that make their love. 

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I was literally in tears. 
Honestly, in the first episode 

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about it because like their love
stories. 

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So good, like these tow 
tragically Oh I thought you 

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meant laughing. 
I mean no money but I do think 

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the right, like, just like the 
idea that their love is so 

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strong that they can sort of 
trick the world. 

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Like It's like, we love each 
other so much that you're gonna 

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like, tell any we can bend the 
Universe. 

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I feel like is a very powerful, 
like I did, let's get like a 

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house of cards Vibe, right? 
That was the. 

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That was like the engine of. 
That's true. 

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It was drama. 
Yeah. 

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Right. 
If they clearly centered, it all

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around their love story. 
But just like, it's a quick 

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recap to any of our listeners 
who have not followed the, we 

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work story, which I will admit 
of the three as it was playing 

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at. 
We work is the one that I 

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followed the lead. 
It was when I was at least 

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interested in ironically given 
the least. 

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I think attention of the three 
private problem, Adam Newman and

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the meeting was so bizarre. 
Oh, I want to get a buzz with 

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her weight. 
Was it during deep voice or pre 

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deep? 
It was post the whole Scandal. 

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It was like she was still like 
she was running out of the 

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courtroom. 
She's like, I gotta hot bocce 

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ball date. 
It was somebody's like myrcella 

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party in San Francisco and you 
know, I was a terrible reporter.

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It was just sort of like it's a 
birthday party. 

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I don't want to ruin her like 
we're just gonna play cool. 

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You know, it's obviously 
everybody knew like, excuse me, 

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excuse me. 
Is this is this your bocce ball?

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I don't want to lose the thread 
with we work but it was the one 

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that I follow the least I have 
not met Adam Newman although 

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ironically he's the one I'm most
closely maybe even actually 

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related to But it's possible. 
That's what I'm saying. 

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Are you just say you're all 
members of the tribe? 

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Yeah, I think it's possible. 
There's not that many Israelis. 

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I have a lot of cousins that are
Adam Newman. 

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Ask. 
Let's put it like that. 

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You were he was Adam Newman was 
born in Israel. 

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Oh yeah. 
Oh, you our viewers really want 

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to Terry's face. 
I was born in the US but my 

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parents were both in Israel. 
My but my older brother was born

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in Israel. 
I have most of my family out 

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there. 
I recognize the Adam Newman type

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distinctly, but it's the story 
of we work which is a co-working

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company that was started in New 
York. 

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Work by Adam Newman and it 
raised, billions of dollars most

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famously by SoftBank, which 
pumps in I think over 10 billion

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dollars. 
As, you know, the whole thing 

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played out and he had this very 
kind of codependent relationship

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with the CEO of soft magma, so 
Yoshi sun which obviously ended 

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explosively. 
But the company sort of demise 

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as it were was that Adam Newman 
and wildly inflated projections?

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They had this IPO that had a 
hysterical S1 at I was like, 

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this is insane. 
Well everybody, we all love to 

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talk about Community adjusted 
ibadah, right you right? 

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Yes. 
And you could do, we all love 

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that. 
It has a I mean Elliott and 

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elevating. 
The world's Consciousness was 

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one of their like core 
objectives Marines Barrel. 

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I mean their book really did a 
good job of yeah. 

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They had a lead on a financial 
because he's metric. 

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Yes but anyway so the show 
centers on, you know, the rise 

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and fall of Adam Newman by fall.
We should also Add the fact that

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he is currently a billionaire, 
he got away with it. 

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I mean, he, I mean, and release 
it Travis, you know, they both 

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made, they succeeded in Travis's
complicated. 

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But anyway, so I started 
watching that show and and then 

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I went to sleep, then I ended up
saw that, it was still on the TV

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and I finished the episode. 
And like, it is my favorite of 

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the three for two reasons. 
I think one, it looks the best. 

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Like it has the best overall, 
like, cinematic look to it. 

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It feels like a movie, which 
made it does, which may be. 

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00:11:01,600 --> 00:11:05,100
It probably should have Bend we 
met First episodes like a full 

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00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:06,500
hour. 
The others are 50 minutes. 

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00:11:06,500 --> 00:11:10,100
I mean, is like movie rice, but 
it has like kind of a cinematic 

200
00:11:10,100 --> 00:11:11,900
scope to it. 
It's really like the production 

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00:11:11,900 --> 00:11:13,900
qualities are the best of the 
three of them. 

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00:11:14,000 --> 00:11:18,000
And Anne, Hathaway is the best 
actress of any of the actors in 

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00:11:18,300 --> 00:11:20,900
in the production's. 
She, yes, she is. 

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00:11:20,900 --> 00:11:23,900
She really knows that character.
Very well, very well. 

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00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:26,400
I mean, she may have met her 
base keep in mind. 

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00:11:26,600 --> 00:11:31,200
The actual person was was part 
of all these Hollywood, sort of 

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00:11:31,200 --> 00:11:34,800
like investment. 
Crossovers habakkuk brought a 

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00:11:34,808 --> 00:11:37,500
lot of celebrities like 50 times
in the show. 

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00:11:41,000 --> 00:11:43,200
By the way, I didn't know this 
about Rebecca but she also has 

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00:11:43,200 --> 00:11:45,800
kind of a low voice. 
I don't know what's going on 

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00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:49,100
with that. 
Both cheese are really bad for 

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00:11:49,100 --> 00:11:54,100
low voice to women. 
Yeah, it's just really put upon 

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00:11:54,100 --> 00:11:56,800
low-voiced with it. 
I think offensively low voice. 

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00:11:56,800 --> 00:11:58,600
Women should feel proud, but 
Katie. 

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00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:00,900
Do you practice your voice in 
the mirror often? 

216
00:12:00,900 --> 00:12:04,700
Or Actually going for something 
a little bit higher than today's

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00:12:05,200 --> 00:12:07,400
just. 
You don't want con artist low, 

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00:12:09,700 --> 00:12:14,000
right? 
Yeah, but we work is the, it's 

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00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:16,000
the most to me, just a pure 
comedy. 

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00:12:16,300 --> 00:12:19,400
Like it Embraces the fact that 
like at its core, Adam Newman 

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00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,800
and his wife are clowns. 
They are clowns here for our 

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00:12:22,800 --> 00:12:26,100
entertainment because ultimately
I don't believe there is a moral

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to the, we work story. 
There were no real victims to 

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00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:30,500
it. 
I remember talking to Elliot 

225
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about this and like his lying 
about What, you know, what is 

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the lesson to be learned? 
Like who's the victim of we 

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00:12:35,100 --> 00:12:36,700
work? 
And his line was like the truth 

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00:12:36,900 --> 00:12:39,000
that, you know, the truth was 
the victim of the whole thing. 

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00:12:39,000 --> 00:12:41,900
And it's like, I don't know, the
truth kind of already dead. 

230
00:12:42,100 --> 00:12:44,600
I don't, I think we're well past
I order. 

231
00:12:44,600 --> 00:12:47,400
I agree with him. 
I also, there are a bunch of 

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people who thought they were 
going to be very rich who are 

233
00:12:49,700 --> 00:12:52,300
not and probably could have made
a lot more money at other 

234
00:12:52,300 --> 00:12:55,400
companies. 
It is a very white collar, like,

235
00:12:55,500 --> 00:12:57,000
you know, he screwed over a 
bunch of people. 

236
00:12:57,000 --> 00:12:58,900
We thought there it's like 
Richards. 

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Imagine a value. 
Yeah, right, right. 

238
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And it looks Work is a thing. 
I work out of a we work. 

239
00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:07,300
It's still around. 
I was checking up its market cap

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today, it is five billion dollar
company which is not 47 billion.

241
00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:19,000
So anyway I do think like Adam 
Newman's huckster is Tendencies 

242
00:13:19,400 --> 00:13:23,100
were good like the idea in the 
beginning like the idea that he 

243
00:13:23,100 --> 00:13:26,800
can sell you that this space is 
not like a normal office, let's 

244
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rethink what an office is. 
Like, let's really change the 

245
00:13:30,100 --> 00:13:32,100
spirit of it. 
Like, let's inspire. 

246
00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:34,700
People. 
I mean, people wanted that that 

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would that it was good while it 
was still functioning as a 

248
00:13:38,500 --> 00:13:41,700
profitable business, which it 
did for a period of time. 

249
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I think that's what makes all 
these stories sort of compelling

250
00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,300
us and what gives it sort of a 
tragic underpinning. 

251
00:13:47,300 --> 00:13:49,300
As it's always a good idea in 
the beginning. 

252
00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:53,300
The stories would not work if 
the idea were just incredibly 

253
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stupid in the beginning, like so
many other Silicon Valley 

254
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startups. 
But right, the idea has to be 

255
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:01,500
good though, right? 
Uber and we work had products 

256
00:14:01,500 --> 00:14:03,700
that weren't just Oh, the 
intuition is good. 

257
00:14:03,700 --> 00:14:05,900
Like there are lots of cases 
where people have intuitions 

258
00:14:05,900 --> 00:14:08,400
that people have had forever and
you can get people to like sort 

259
00:14:08,400 --> 00:14:11,400
of want to get on board that to 
me, is that there are no someone

260
00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:13,900
who burn we work. 
They had, you know, the black 

261
00:14:13,900 --> 00:14:16,500
car service were. 
I mean Uber still is a thriving 

262
00:14:16,600 --> 00:14:18,200
business. 
I think it's funny. 

263
00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:21,400
By the way that the we work show
begins with a title card saying,

264
00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:26,000
based on actual events because 
it does sort of seem so 

265
00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:28,100
fanciful. 
That, like these characters 

266
00:14:28,100 --> 00:14:30,400
exist that you would wonder if 
they were pure Hollywood. 

267
00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:33,800
Well, the show literally starts.
Sort of towards the end of the 

268
00:14:33,800 --> 00:14:37,400
arc with Adam Newman, having an 
assistant, come in and give him 

269
00:14:37,400 --> 00:14:40,100
a bong rip. 
Before going to a board meeting 

270
00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:42,200
where they're trying to force 
them out, this is the beginning.

271
00:14:42,200 --> 00:14:43,800
So I'm not really spoiling 
anything. 

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00:14:43,800 --> 00:14:48,300
And then we cut back to sort of 
the early days of Adam Newman. 

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00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:50,600
The morning bong, rip. 
By the way, is just an Israeli 

274
00:14:50,600 --> 00:14:52,600
like ablution. 
That's something I do every 

275
00:14:52,600 --> 00:14:56,900
morning to wake. 
It's actually, I prefer that not

276
00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:59,300
be brought up in a cultural 
context in the show. 

277
00:15:01,000 --> 00:15:04,800
He also, I believe this like 
Katie, Harry this sort of 

278
00:15:04,800 --> 00:15:09,100
somewhat make this resonates 
given my, my meeting with Adam 

279
00:15:09,100 --> 00:15:13,000
Newman that went so, so 
sideways, and so many different 

280
00:15:13,000 --> 00:15:17,100
ways. 
I had a meeting with Adam Newman

281
00:15:17,100 --> 00:15:22,400
that went almost as hilariously 
terribly, as as any meeting I've

282
00:15:22,400 --> 00:15:25,800
ever had. 
Truly, it was in 2017. 

283
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,900
First of all, Adam showed up, 45
minutes, late to the meeting as 

284
00:15:29,900 --> 00:15:32,900
he does on his date in the show.
He got there for But the last 10

285
00:15:32,900 --> 00:15:36,700
minutes of it, which I was fine 
with it was really just to get 

286
00:15:36,700 --> 00:15:40,200
to know him and these things 
happen is totally great, but he 

287
00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,200
came in, you know, there was not
really an apology. 

288
00:15:42,400 --> 00:15:45,000
I've been sitting with his PR 
person at that point for a long 

289
00:15:45,000 --> 00:15:46,500
time. 
We really got to know one 

290
00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:51,600
another, but what he, what he 
first did is summoned, one of a 

291
00:15:51,600 --> 00:15:58,200
rotating cast of assistants who 
came in, and he demanded a very 

292
00:15:58,200 --> 00:16:03,800
specific cappuccino order. 
With some other accoutrement, he

293
00:16:03,900 --> 00:16:07,600
insisted on getting me some sort
of coffee which I was totally. 

294
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:09,900
It was neither here nor there, I
did not care. 

295
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,900
And then, he sort of launches 
into a spiel about how to best 

296
00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:15,800
to Value the company because I'd
come in with a list of 

297
00:16:15,800 --> 00:16:17,500
questions. 
Because I was, I didn't 

298
00:16:17,500 --> 00:16:19,200
understand the valuation of the 
company. 

299
00:16:19,200 --> 00:16:21,200
I had covered commercial real 
estate in the past, so the 

300
00:16:21,200 --> 00:16:23,000
numbers didn't make a lot of 
sense. 

301
00:16:23,500 --> 00:16:26,500
So he's giving me the Spiel and 
the assistants are coming in. 

302
00:16:28,100 --> 00:16:31,700
The first one brings in regular 
coffee which is absolutely not 

303
00:16:31,700 --> 00:16:34,000
correct. 
Another assistant has to come in

304
00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:36,900
to deal with the incompetence of
the first assistant. 

305
00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:40,800
There is a terrified looking 
person who comes in eventually 

306
00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:43,600
with what looks perhaps like the
correct coffee drink. 

307
00:16:43,600 --> 00:16:46,200
But at this point like he's just
he's very he's very 

308
00:16:46,200 --> 00:16:47,800
dissatisfied. 
I'll turn it that way. 

309
00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,700
He seems very dissatisfied and 
then finally somebody breaks in 

310
00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:55,700
I believe a fourth assistant at 
this point to say that he is 

311
00:16:55,700 --> 00:16:59,700
late and he needs to get in To 
his town car that's waiting for 

312
00:16:59,700 --> 00:17:03,000
him to drive him from San 
Francisco, down to the valley 

313
00:17:03,000 --> 00:17:06,800
which with traffic as definitely
45 minutes to meet with Google 

314
00:17:07,599 --> 00:17:10,599
that he meeting. 
He's running late too and then 

315
00:17:10,599 --> 00:17:15,000
he looks at me very pointedly. 
And while he stares at me, says,

316
00:17:15,000 --> 00:17:19,599
to assistant number for Google 
can wait, I'm doing something 

317
00:17:19,700 --> 00:17:25,099
far more important, right? 
Which is funny given what we 

318
00:17:25,900 --> 00:17:30,100
like. 
Liz is cannot wait. 

319
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,400
They're about to. 
I think, give you give you money

320
00:17:34,800 --> 00:17:38,000
and I believe that that is why 
you are meeting with them. 

321
00:17:38,500 --> 00:17:41,100
So you should get in your car. 
I mean, that looks like was that

322
00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,400
the end of the meeting, the idea
of an assistant at that point 

323
00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:45,400
coming in. 
And handing them, a bong would 

324
00:17:45,400 --> 00:17:47,800
have made complete sense. 
It would have been absolutely 

325
00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:51,400
perfect in keeping with every 
other part of the meeting. 

326
00:17:51,700 --> 00:17:53,700
Go with the right bomb was I do 
know. 

327
00:17:53,700 --> 00:17:58,500
This is cups of coffee on the 
Table because none of them were 

328
00:17:58,500 --> 00:18:00,400
right. 
I mean, I loved it. 

329
00:18:00,400 --> 00:18:02,400
Adam Newman. 
She was a perfect is not any way

330
00:18:02,700 --> 00:18:08,100
not only oriented around all his
needs, but incompetently. 

331
00:18:08,100 --> 00:18:12,400
So looks like we can't even get 
him the right coffee that he 

332
00:18:12,400 --> 00:18:13,900
wants. 
You know, I don't know. 

333
00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:15,400
Yeah, yeah. 
Yeah. 

334
00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:18,100
I mean, that's the interesting 
thing as the show developed a, 

335
00:18:18,300 --> 00:18:21,300
we'll see how it goes, but it's 
like, is this about just pure 

336
00:18:21,300 --> 00:18:25,000
enrichment, is he just trying to
develop a lifestyle or like a 

337
00:18:25,008 --> 00:18:27,100
company that can support the 
lifestyle that he wants to? 

338
00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:32,000
Ever does he really think that 
he's building a company of you 

339
00:18:32,000 --> 00:18:34,400
know substance that will last 
forever that is going to make 

340
00:18:34,400 --> 00:18:37,000
the world's you know Elevate the
world's Consciousness or 

341
00:18:37,000 --> 00:18:38,200
something. 
I mean, I guess that's the 

342
00:18:38,208 --> 00:18:40,000
tension at the core of all of 
these companies, right? 

343
00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:42,500
Is it just like, are they 
creating a service that will 

344
00:18:42,500 --> 00:18:45,200
make the world a better place? 
Or is it just, you know, a way 

345
00:18:45,200 --> 00:18:48,700
for them to get rich with Adam? 
It seems mostly the latter, it 

346
00:18:48,700 --> 00:18:51,000
has to be? 
I mean, he's a real entrepreneur

347
00:18:51,000 --> 00:18:53,300
and so in that way, he 
succeeded, I mean, you know, you

348
00:18:53,300 --> 00:18:58,200
got the billion right from 
right, I haven't, my notes and I

349
00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:06,500
I do think sort of a broad point
across these three shows is that

350
00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:12,100
Travis ends up, Travis kalanick 
ends up coming off the worst, 

351
00:19:12,100 --> 00:19:16,600
even though he is the best 
entrepreneur of the three, you 

352
00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:19,000
know what I mean? 
I feel like he comes off as the 

353
00:19:19,000 --> 00:19:23,700
lease redeemed in a way because 
he's like, he's this ruthless, 

354
00:19:23,700 --> 00:19:28,000
hyper comp competent person. 
And the way that the other two 

355
00:19:28,000 --> 00:19:31,900
are like, People like being 
dipped, like, fraudsters are 

356
00:19:31,900 --> 00:19:35,600
Charming, you know what I mean? 
So I think there is something to

357
00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:40,500
say about that. 
We are getting sort of suckered 

358
00:19:40,500 --> 00:19:43,500
to, you know what I mean? 
Like, they, it's like the guy 

359
00:19:43,500 --> 00:19:46,400
who is, I mean, there's a lot of
bad things about Travis and his 

360
00:19:46,800 --> 00:19:50,900
his confidence allowed him to 
commit perhaps Acres sins. 

361
00:19:50,900 --> 00:19:53,700
Well, no, they are nose is the 
biggest sin, but like allowed 

362
00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:56,600
him to sort of do a lot of 
things that people objected to, 

363
00:19:56,800 --> 00:20:01,900
but I do think the emotional I'm
like, yeah, I'm rooting for Adam

364
00:20:01,900 --> 00:20:04,800
Newman at the moment. 
I'm rooting for do for Elizabeth

365
00:20:04,800 --> 00:20:07,700
Holmes. 
I'm definitely not rooting for, 

366
00:20:08,500 --> 00:20:10,700
you know, Travis in super 
pumped. 

367
00:20:11,200 --> 00:20:14,200
Yeah, I think what the we work 
show gets really, right? 

368
00:20:14,200 --> 00:20:18,300
Just again, I haven't met Adam, 
like, Katie has and I have 

369
00:20:18,300 --> 00:20:22,600
personal issues with Israelis 
being successful that particular

370
00:20:22,600 --> 00:20:25,100
way. 
But like, you understand how it 

371
00:20:25,100 --> 00:20:27,300
works for him? 
Like he is genuinely Charming 

372
00:20:27,500 --> 00:20:29,100
the show clearly rides on that 
for a while. 

373
00:20:29,300 --> 00:20:31,400
When Jared Leto's performance 
it's pretty good. 

374
00:20:31,800 --> 00:20:33,600
As far as that goes he's 
actually very compelling to 

375
00:20:33,600 --> 00:20:37,800
watch he's not 65 like Adam 
Newman is which it's funny. 

376
00:20:37,800 --> 00:20:41,400
There were like competing 
projects for the we work story 

377
00:20:41,400 --> 00:20:43,300
and one of them was going to 
have cousin Greg from 

378
00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:47,100
succession, playing Adam Newman 
which like height-wise is 

379
00:20:47,100 --> 00:20:49,900
accurate. 
Well it seems like yeah common 

380
00:20:49,900 --> 00:20:54,800
theme that at least between 
super pumped and we crash is the

381
00:20:54,800 --> 00:20:57,900
failure to cast, tall, care, L, 
All actors. 

382
00:20:57,900 --> 00:21:02,000
These Bill girly I mean, Mike, 
he gets made fun of by people 

383
00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,200
who read his great book, but he 
talks about Bill girlies height,

384
00:21:05,200 --> 00:21:07,600
like a bazillion times in the 
book. 

385
00:21:07,600 --> 00:21:12,300
And, and then, you know, show 
that tries to really cover the 

386
00:21:12,300 --> 00:21:16,500
entire ground of the book cast 
Kyle, Chandler, who. 

387
00:21:16,900 --> 00:21:19,200
And they don't even try to 
pretend like he's taller and 

388
00:21:19,300 --> 00:21:21,200
right, right, right. 
And they don't, they don't 

389
00:21:21,200 --> 00:21:23,500
really it, you know, with we 
work in and Adam Newman. 

390
00:21:24,400 --> 00:21:29,300
But yeah, I guess, just to 
finish off with the show it It 

391
00:21:29,300 --> 00:21:33,400
has the most forward momentum in
a way that I'm excited about, 

392
00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,400
like I said, watching it. 
Like, I really want to see where

393
00:21:35,400 --> 00:21:36,800
this thing goes. 
Even though I know where it 

394
00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:42,300
goes, I am wrapped up in Anne 
Hathaway for sure. 

395
00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:45,300
This is a love story. 
It's a good love story, right. 

396
00:21:45,400 --> 00:21:46,400
Right. 
And they're still together. 

397
00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,200
So, you know, it's not like this
becomes like, you know, A Star 

398
00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:52,300
is Born or something where, you 
know, they their relationship 

399
00:21:52,300 --> 00:21:54,100
falls apart. 
As you know, she is the upper 

400
00:21:54,100 --> 00:21:56,700
like you like the rising star. 
Like, it's a fun one. 

401
00:21:56,700 --> 00:22:00,200
Like the other two, Aren't as 
her father. 

402
00:22:00,200 --> 00:22:02,100
Grimm is hell. 
I mean who buries show? 

403
00:22:02,100 --> 00:22:04,800
We'll get to in a second. 
Like that thing is just like a 

404
00:22:04,800 --> 00:22:09,100
constant like, just like grind 
of, you know, watching these 

405
00:22:09,100 --> 00:22:12,600
people go into meetings and 
argue about products, and 

406
00:22:12,600 --> 00:22:16,700
deception, whatever, no Edward 
is just like, I'm off to - about

407
00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:20,400
super pumped, I actually have 
have liked it better as it's 

408
00:22:20,400 --> 00:22:23,200
going along. 
It's interesting to see some, 

409
00:22:23,200 --> 00:22:26,200
you know, connected universes 
between the show's Benchmark was

410
00:22:26,200 --> 00:22:31,600
an investor in, we work as well 
as you Or Anthony Edwards from 

411
00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:35,000
from ER plays The Benchmark 
partner is actually kind of 

412
00:22:35,000 --> 00:22:36,300
funny and all three of these 
shows. 

413
00:22:36,300 --> 00:22:40,400
There's a lot of like late 90s, 
early 2000s, TV actors who I 

414
00:22:40,400 --> 00:22:44,000
haven't thought about in a long 
time, Sayid from Lost Place, 

415
00:22:44,000 --> 00:22:47,300
Sunny, bhawani, another no-show,
I didn't put that together. 

416
00:22:47,300 --> 00:22:50,100
That's right, which is a good 
job, which I actually think 

417
00:22:50,100 --> 00:22:53,200
that's bad casting, because so, 
he's well, I just because, like,

418
00:22:53,200 --> 00:22:56,800
I think Sonny Bomani is just a 
straight-up slimeball, I mean 

419
00:22:56,800 --> 00:22:59,000
that's coming out in full during
the trial, right? 

420
00:22:59,100 --> 00:23:01,300
Now that he was like a really. 
I mean that's like a real 

421
00:23:01,300 --> 00:23:03,200
slickster, but I really seems 
pretty. 

422
00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,800
I mean, if anything might take 
away from his character in the 

423
00:23:05,800 --> 00:23:09,100
show, is that he's pretty 
one-dimensional, he's just like 

424
00:23:09,100 --> 00:23:13,300
he's the sort of bad but I just 
like Naveen Andrews that actor 

425
00:23:13,300 --> 00:23:17,700
who plays you know, so that 
Iraqi military person who was 

426
00:23:17,700 --> 00:23:19,100
also stranded on the island in 
law. 

427
00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:21,400
So it's just like a general core
of goodness to him. 

428
00:23:21,700 --> 00:23:24,800
Like he's just like there's a 
Humanity to him and I just don't

429
00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:26,500
I never really saw in sunny 
bhawani. 

430
00:23:26,800 --> 00:23:29,000
In terms of other actors that 
have popped up. 

431
00:23:29,200 --> 00:23:33,100
And you know we had what 
Ginsburg from Mad Men. 

432
00:23:33,200 --> 00:23:35,700
Oh yeah. 
As Larry Page is a pretty 

433
00:23:35,700 --> 00:23:41,400
hysterical cameo in the in super
pumps and then she said I should

434
00:23:41,400 --> 00:23:44,000
have written it down. 
No it's not anyway but yeah 

435
00:23:44,000 --> 00:23:46,600
anyway so so that's really all I
have to say about we crash it's 

436
00:23:46,600 --> 00:23:49,000
the one of the most excited to 
go back and watch the rest of 

437
00:23:49,000 --> 00:23:51,700
for sure. 
My sneaking suspicion though, is

438
00:23:51,700 --> 00:23:53,400
it probably should have just 
been a movie. 

439
00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,600
It probably should have just 
been like a two-hour movie and 

440
00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:58,100
would have you have no noise in 
this Instinct? 

441
00:23:58,100 --> 00:24:01,400
Save you. 
I think that's the problem with 

442
00:24:01,400 --> 00:24:04,200
so many of these shows, not just
the ones that are made about 

443
00:24:04,300 --> 00:24:07,800
Tech podcast that were based on 
books that were based on 

444
00:24:07,800 --> 00:24:10,900
newspaper articles. 
But also just that in general 

445
00:24:11,000 --> 00:24:13,800
the streaming Wars mean that 
we're seeing a lot of things 

446
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:17,100
that could have been told in two
hours being stretched out to 

447
00:24:17,100 --> 00:24:19,300
like an interminable 10. 
Yeah. 

448
00:24:20,100 --> 00:24:23,900
Yeah, it's economic like it's 
economically driven that they've

449
00:24:23,900 --> 00:24:28,600
made these all serums this is 
such but it takes so much work 

450
00:24:28,600 --> 00:24:30,800
to convince. 
I'm just arguing for television 

451
00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:33,000
but like, it takes so much work 
to convince people to get to 

452
00:24:33,000 --> 00:24:35,600
know a new character once you 
have them on the hook. 

453
00:24:36,200 --> 00:24:38,300
You've done most of the job and 
then they want to keep watching.

454
00:24:38,300 --> 00:24:40,700
I mean, it TV's great people 
look to see if you have a 

455
00:24:40,708 --> 00:24:42,500
Content, I understand why? 
Yeah, that's great. 

456
00:24:42,500 --> 00:24:45,200
I'm so used to do more than this
character has to do a lot of 

457
00:24:45,200 --> 00:24:46,900
stuff, though, to sustain 10 
episodes. 

458
00:24:46,900 --> 00:24:49,800
Not do kind of like one thing 
stretched out over 10 episodes. 

459
00:24:49,800 --> 00:24:51,600
The we work stories. 
Also, so simple. 

460
00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:57,800
You know, it's really like, I 
want reacts or we work story is 

461
00:24:57,800 --> 00:25:02,100
a story of one of your Ins 
because getting high and hang 

462
00:25:02,100 --> 00:25:04,100
out with Gwyneth Paltrow. 
It's already very complicated. 

463
00:25:04,100 --> 00:25:05,900
What's up? 
I have cousins in their 40s at 

464
00:25:05,900 --> 00:25:09,100
still live on quasi kibbutzim in
Israel. 

465
00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,400
I know this type. 
So well, if by the way, if you 

466
00:25:11,400 --> 00:25:14,100
enjoyed the we work we the we 
crashed story. 

467
00:25:14,100 --> 00:25:17,200
And you want to know more about 
swindling Israelis. 

468
00:25:17,200 --> 00:25:20,200
I do recommend the tender 
swindler, which we can do a 

469
00:25:20,200 --> 00:25:22,600
spin-off podcast about. 
I have a lot to say about that 

470
00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,000
documentary on Netflix, but we 
got two more shows to get 

471
00:25:26,000 --> 00:25:27,900
through. 
So I think we should should move

472
00:25:27,900 --> 00:25:29,000
on to the. 
What can we talk about? 

473
00:25:29,100 --> 00:25:32,700
Burp up next or sure. 
Yeah, sure. 

474
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,200
I mean super pumped is the 
weirdest one for I think at 

475
00:25:35,200 --> 00:25:40,100
least for me to talk about 
because I really I know Mike 

476
00:25:40,100 --> 00:25:44,100
better than the people who wrote
the other, the material that 

477
00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:48,600
supports the podcast that 
support the other shows. 

478
00:25:48,900 --> 00:25:51,500
By the way, the actor that 
played like Isaac was excellent 

479
00:25:52,000 --> 00:25:56,600
as my fault. 
Everybody's watch these shows I 

480
00:25:59,100 --> 00:26:02,000
It's a little bit weird because,
okay, look when I was, I think 

481
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,000
in high school, the movie Of 
Mice and Men came out, and I 

482
00:26:05,000 --> 00:26:09,100
loved the book and I watched the
movie, and I thought to myself, 

483
00:26:09,100 --> 00:26:12,500
the problem with this movie, is 
that it adheres so closely to 

484
00:26:12,500 --> 00:26:17,200
the book that it almost makes it
hard to be a good movie. 

485
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,300
It would be like if the 
Godfather adhered completely 

486
00:26:20,500 --> 00:26:22,900
with complete Fidelity to the 
Mario, Puzo book. 

487
00:26:22,900 --> 00:26:24,500
It would not be a very good 
movie. 

488
00:26:25,200 --> 00:26:28,500
And so like there's there were 
moments in the show where I was 

489
00:26:28,500 --> 00:26:32,100
like, wow I really like this. 
Very explanatory part of Mike's 

490
00:26:32,100 --> 00:26:34,500
book and feel that he did, An 
Elegant job breaking down, 

491
00:26:34,500 --> 00:26:37,200
something complicated in a 
paragraph, but I don't know if 

492
00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,500
that's good TV. 
What can I actually? 

493
00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,600
I'm not wondering if Katie, I'm 
not wandering. 

494
00:26:41,600 --> 00:26:44,400
Katie, if the ending of super 
pumped is the same as Of Mice 

495
00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:50,500
and Men and and Doug early, kind
of leans over to Travis, it 

496
00:26:50,500 --> 00:26:55,700
says, the camera pulls away, 
great ending. 

497
00:26:56,600 --> 00:27:00,200
I'm gonna be a terrible 
Millennial and Katie is going to

498
00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:01,900
murder never met Of Mice and 
Men. 

499
00:27:01,900 --> 00:27:10,200
No no I rather myself but I 
think you're a sort of I'm going

500
00:27:10,200 --> 00:27:13,300
to talk about Harry Potter 
whatever Millennial never does. 

501
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,400
I bet all those goddamn you like
your fucking be ready too late 

502
00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:18,500
Katie. 
Now you shouldn't have read 

503
00:27:18,500 --> 00:27:23,200
them. 
She's know without reading those

504
00:27:23,200 --> 00:27:25,200
books and suddenly I'm like, oh 
my God. 

505
00:27:25,500 --> 00:27:30,100
What happens next with the owl? 
But continue, okay, I I love 

506
00:27:30,600 --> 00:27:34,300
inherited Potter, 7 part 1, 
we're like Harry and Hermione 

507
00:27:34,300 --> 00:27:35,600
are dancing and they have this 
nice. 

508
00:27:35,600 --> 00:27:37,500
Look, it's just one book. 
You talk about the movies. 

509
00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:41,000
Now, that is a moment where 
where the characters are 

510
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,800
actually able to sort of be 
expressive even though it's not 

511
00:27:44,800 --> 00:27:47,800
true to the book and it makes 
you feel something. 

512
00:27:47,800 --> 00:27:51,700
So, I'm totally as a book 
loyalists, I was fine with that 

513
00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:55,000
scene because I thought it 
worked in the movie and so I 

514
00:27:55,000 --> 00:28:00,000
don't have a problem when they 
change things from The books to 

515
00:28:00,000 --> 00:28:02,800
make you feel the authentic 
themes of the books. 

516
00:28:03,100 --> 00:28:05,500
Like that's what you want. 
I'd rather you make a change so 

517
00:28:05,500 --> 00:28:09,200
you can feel the themes even if 
factually, it doesn't line up. 

518
00:28:10,000 --> 00:28:13,100
But which always drove me crazy.
In the Harry Potters is like a 

519
00:28:13,500 --> 00:28:15,700
die hard. 
Was it whenever Harry was 

520
00:28:15,700 --> 00:28:18,400
killing. 
It was destroying the horcruxes 

521
00:28:18,800 --> 00:28:22,400
and the books Baltimore. 
Can't feel at all because he's 

522
00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:25,800
so disconnected from his soul. 
But in the movies they because 

523
00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:27,400
they want to, like, show 
something. 

524
00:28:27,400 --> 00:28:28,900
They have like Voldemort, like 
get weak. 

525
00:28:29,100 --> 00:28:32,300
And weaker every time they kill 
his soul. 

526
00:28:32,300 --> 00:28:35,900
So that always drove me crazy, 
and I feel like similarly in 

527
00:28:35,900 --> 00:28:39,200
super pumped they wanted my 
Travis is girlfriends, like the 

528
00:28:39,200 --> 00:28:45,000
horcruxes know they want to make
Bill girly, sort of over, they 

529
00:28:45,000 --> 00:28:50,700
need to show over time, Bill 
girly, resisting Travis because 

530
00:28:50,700 --> 00:28:54,000
they think it makes a better 
show, but authentically a key. 

531
00:28:54,000 --> 00:28:58,100
Part of the book, The Uber story
and everything is that girly 

532
00:28:58,100 --> 00:29:01,000
doesn't lead us. 
Turn on, Travis until 2017. 

533
00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:05,600
The key thing of the whole Saga 
is that if you don't have voting

534
00:29:05,600 --> 00:29:07,900
control on the board, you're 
either all in or all out, you 

535
00:29:08,000 --> 00:29:11,200
enable these Founders until you 
decide enough. 

536
00:29:11,300 --> 00:29:13,600
Then we really have to kill him 
and get a headshot. 

537
00:29:13,600 --> 00:29:15,100
But it's not an incremental 
thing. 

538
00:29:15,100 --> 00:29:19,200
You got to stay close to the 
company work with him and then 

539
00:29:19,300 --> 00:29:21,900
when you say like, oh my God, we
can't do anymore. 

540
00:29:21,900 --> 00:29:23,900
Then you go all out War. 
Where's the show? 

541
00:29:23,900 --> 00:29:27,400
Makes it seem like all longer 
Lee was like, all right, I'm not

542
00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:28,900
annoying. 
I'm gonna try and stop. 

543
00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:32,700
I know it was like we're going 
to enable him all along the way 

544
00:29:32,700 --> 00:29:34,800
and then we're going to kill 
him. 

545
00:29:34,900 --> 00:29:36,100
You know? 
That's a trio. 

546
00:29:36,100 --> 00:29:37,600
That's like the exact. 
Yeah. 

547
00:29:37,600 --> 00:29:39,200
And so that's interesting 
because you're right. 

548
00:29:39,200 --> 00:29:45,200
They create these very strange 
devices to show girly struggle, 

549
00:29:45,200 --> 00:29:51,700
including the character of 
girlies wife who who's I don't 

550
00:29:51,700 --> 00:29:54,700
quite understand as a narrative 
device, though. 

551
00:29:54,700 --> 00:29:58,700
The best part of girlies wife is
when he's like because they're 

552
00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:01,700
trying to To create real Stakes 
for this person who's already 

553
00:30:01,700 --> 00:30:07,500
worth like, you know, 500 
million in there, right now, 

554
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:10,800
right? 
Well, now a 100 million or 10 

555
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:12,600
million. 
He's a cent, a millionaire, 

556
00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,000
they're trying to create steaks 
from these. 

557
00:30:14,000 --> 00:30:16,600
Like honey this could be the one
that gets us out of this hard 

558
00:30:16,600 --> 00:30:18,700
knocks life. 
I know I do there are other 

559
00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:23,700
giant like open-concept kitchen 
and the girlies wife character 

560
00:30:23,700 --> 00:30:26,000
is like I think we're doing 
okay. 

561
00:30:26,000 --> 00:30:30,800
Actually look at this just honey
maybe You don't need for houses,

562
00:30:31,100 --> 00:30:33,200
maybe just the three we have 
will be okay. 

563
00:30:34,500 --> 00:30:35,400
Very. 
Yeah. 

564
00:30:36,300 --> 00:30:38,700
He, yeah. 
I they clearly made a decision. 

565
00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:41,200
It's are making this show was 
ever like, well, who's the heart

566
00:30:41,200 --> 00:30:43,400
of the story? 
Oh, that's Bill girly and like, 

567
00:30:43,400 --> 00:30:45,800
listen, we love Mike and they 
were just trying to make him 

568
00:30:45,800 --> 00:30:47,600
into coach Taylor from Friday 
Night Lights, right. 

569
00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,800
Which is why do girly character 
exists? 

570
00:30:50,000 --> 00:30:52,600
A stock analyst, right? 
You know, you may not coach 

571
00:30:52,600 --> 00:30:55,700
Taylor, he's a smart guy. 
He's a, he has a Southern 

572
00:30:55,700 --> 00:30:57,400
accent. 
But besides, you know, like 

573
00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,400
yeah, like any person You can 
get Beyond a Southern accent, 

574
00:31:00,400 --> 00:31:03,500
realize people with Southern 
Accents, can be smart with like 

575
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:05,600
Bill. 
Girl, he's smart, you know, like

576
00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:09,500
he's like the kind of guy you, 
your eyes is what he predicted 

577
00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:12,700
that the Uber said he was 
looking for different ride 

578
00:31:12,700 --> 00:31:15,200
sharing companies. 
He was pursuing a thesis. 

579
00:31:15,700 --> 00:31:19,600
Yeah, yeah I did it starts off 
feel like the whole like that's 

580
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,300
the thing they were it's almost 
feels like a couple of different

581
00:31:22,300 --> 00:31:25,700
pre-existing successful 
television shows sort of pushed 

582
00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:27,100
into one. 
They're like we're going to take

583
00:31:27,100 --> 00:31:30,400
a little lights. 
And they're going to take like a

584
00:31:30,400 --> 00:31:32,800
little bit of billions, right? 
All right. 

585
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,300
I just kind of put them together
because he's playing the coach. 

586
00:31:35,300 --> 00:31:37,500
Yeah, that's totally right. 
They are trying to make him 

587
00:31:37,500 --> 00:31:40,400
play, sort of the Friday Night 
Lights, which is why they make 

588
00:31:40,400 --> 00:31:43,200
Bill girlies wife basically the 
Friday night. 

589
00:31:43,300 --> 00:31:45,300
Oh, that's interesting. 
Wife to yeah. 

590
00:31:45,300 --> 00:31:49,100
It's like it's just yeah it's 
just Connie Britton. 

591
00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:51,300
She doesn't have like, giant 
glasses of wine instead of that 

592
00:31:51,300 --> 00:31:56,700
she's like making salads 
constantly like but California 

593
00:31:56,700 --> 00:31:58,800
and in California, you eat a lot
of salad, right? 

594
00:31:58,900 --> 00:32:00,100
Right. 
Yeah, they did get that right 

595
00:32:00,100 --> 00:32:03,800
but no and you know, they set up
a similar thing with with Travis

596
00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:06,800
and his mom which you know as we
know does and fairly tragically.

597
00:32:06,800 --> 00:32:10,300
So so you know the show is you 
know that something's a little 

598
00:32:10,300 --> 00:32:12,700
bit more defendable even if 
those scenes are also very 

599
00:32:12,700 --> 00:32:15,700
perplexing. 
But I was taking notes during 

600
00:32:15,700 --> 00:32:18,300
the Uber show because watching 
it you know, because I cover the

601
00:32:18,300 --> 00:32:21,000
company and watching it in that 
sense feels like homework to me.

602
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,500
But you know like when one sense
we have to get past the first 

603
00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:30,700
sorry before we get into that. 
Why is Quentin Tarantino doing a

604
00:32:30,700 --> 00:32:33,900
voiceover the worst part of the 
show by armed. 

605
00:32:34,300 --> 00:32:36,300
There's no point. 
It adds nothing to it's like 

606
00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:38,200
we're gonna rip you out of any 
sense. 

607
00:32:38,200 --> 00:32:41,000
It when youíve actually convince
you that this is the real world 

608
00:32:41,000 --> 00:32:45,800
and rip you out of that. 
Like yeah, I mean like I can I 

609
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:50,200
can understand why they chose to
make the Uber PR women. 

610
00:32:50,200 --> 00:32:53,700
Look like Foxy Sears catalog 
models to like, you know, a up 

611
00:32:53,700 --> 00:32:56,400
the sexual tension, like 
whatever that Stevie, but 

612
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,800
Quentin Tarantino. 
Like yeah, why? 

613
00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:00,600
Why? 
Yeah, so anyway, when he was 

614
00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,000
texting me, like, I'm sure Jill,
Hazel Baker, Baker and Rachel 

615
00:33:04,000 --> 00:33:06,600
Whetstone hate being portrayed 
as like, fix you mean in The 

616
00:33:06,600 --> 00:33:08,500
genome? 
You mean wet Baker. 

617
00:33:08,900 --> 00:33:11,800
By the way, that was just me. 
Feel seem like Rachel's boss. 

618
00:33:11,800 --> 00:33:18,800
Did you notice that? 
Like I did Wonder I get your the

619
00:33:18,800 --> 00:33:21,900
radio has like such a great way 
of like speaking that they want 

620
00:33:21,900 --> 00:33:24,800
her to be sort of like the like 
doing. 

621
00:33:24,800 --> 00:33:27,900
I don't know. 
They should have just picked one

622
00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:29,500
or some, I don't know. 
It's a weird. 

623
00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:33,200
It's almost too easy to like, 
pick on the like niggling 

624
00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:36,300
verisimilitude aspects with it 
because it's rampant throughout 

625
00:33:36,300 --> 00:33:39,100
and I'd almost rather it be even
more fictionalize, right? 

626
00:33:39,300 --> 00:33:42,000
To make it a better story. 
Well we work like there's a 

627
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,100
great having you, do you work or
fiction? 

628
00:33:44,200 --> 00:33:47,300
We're there in, like they're in 
Skadden office, you know, in 

629
00:33:47,300 --> 00:33:48,900
this scene where they're trying 
to get rid of them. 

630
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:51,000
But they don't like say like I 
feel like if it was super 

631
00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:53,200
pumped, they say Scott and Scott
and Scott, he's a law firm. 

632
00:33:53,200 --> 00:33:56,200
It's like, you know, there's a 
reference whereas, like, it's 

633
00:33:56,200 --> 00:33:58,400
just like in the background of 
the we crash. 

634
00:33:58,400 --> 00:34:01,200
Oh, you know, they're in a real,
you know, Silicon Valley, Law 

635
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:03,700
Firm, but they don't like, 
they're not like bragging that 

636
00:34:03,700 --> 00:34:06,600
they like have a trivia question
that they're sort of like, 

637
00:34:06,700 --> 00:34:08,900
inserting into the into the 
story. 

638
00:34:09,100 --> 00:34:15,000
Yeah, my overall take just the 
matically on the Uber show. 

639
00:34:15,000 --> 00:34:17,500
Super, Pumped, is that it very 
much feels like a show, those 

640
00:34:17,500 --> 00:34:20,699
written by a bunch of 40 year 
old dudes, which I think works 

641
00:34:20,699 --> 00:34:25,500
for for billions because that is
sort of the milieu of, you know,

642
00:34:25,500 --> 00:34:27,100
Wall Street, you know, hedge 
fund, dudes. 

643
00:34:27,100 --> 00:34:29,699
And so you can kind of ramp up 
the camp penis. 

644
00:34:29,699 --> 00:34:33,300
And the like my general point is
that like, this is, this is the 

645
00:34:33,300 --> 00:34:36,100
most like Gen-X spilled show. 
I've seen in a long time. 

646
00:34:36,100 --> 00:34:38,699
I mean, the soundtrack, the 
soundtrack certainly, yes, you 

647
00:34:38,699 --> 00:34:42,000
like the Pixies. 
Is this Show sponsored by the 

648
00:34:42,000 --> 00:34:43,699
pixie? 
I don't know to feel girly where

649
00:34:43,699 --> 00:34:46,300
Pixies t-shirts everywhere. 
If that's the Archer point. 

650
00:34:46,300 --> 00:34:48,400
And then I didn't realize that 
when they're when they're doing 

651
00:34:48,400 --> 00:34:52,500
though when they do the Roadshow
or the home show rather than 

652
00:34:52,500 --> 00:34:56,699
they had when they have the 
Obesity boys, Ryman and steal 

653
00:34:56,699 --> 00:35:00,100
and play. 
And during that they have the 

654
00:35:00,107 --> 00:35:03,100
Clash play. 
They've got Pearl Jam's. 

655
00:35:03,600 --> 00:35:05,600
Autograph of the Beastie Boys 
lately, though. 

656
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:09,300
I mean, that's really something.
Wow, anyway, continue absolutely

657
00:35:09,300 --> 00:35:11,500
real crazy. 
I mean, just yes. 

658
00:35:11,500 --> 00:35:14,000
Yeah, yeah. 
What Katie as the one Gen-X 

659
00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:15,400
person here, maybe you could 
heal. 

660
00:35:15,500 --> 00:35:19,000
More like a tune to the vibe of 
the show, but for me, it's just 

661
00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,900
like, and this kind of feels 
like, it feels like 40 year 

662
00:35:21,900 --> 00:35:24,600
olds. 
Well, yeah, Joe but this is, 

663
00:35:24,600 --> 00:35:26,900
this is one of the things I 
noticed about the acting that 

664
00:35:26,900 --> 00:35:31,700
makes possibly the other, the 
protagonist of the we work show 

665
00:35:31,700 --> 00:35:36,500
and the Thera no show better 
than the than the Travis 

666
00:35:36,500 --> 00:35:41,100
character is that, on the other 
shows, the actors feel they have

667
00:35:41,100 --> 00:35:44,600
the freedom to actually act like
full people, right? 

668
00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:47,100
Are you like them or not? 
They bring things to the 

669
00:35:47,100 --> 00:35:48,600
character that may or may not 
Elizabeth. 

670
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,400
Holmes may never have had the 
kind of like emotional collapse 

671
00:35:52,400 --> 00:35:55,900
or freaked out that Amanda 
Seyfried portrays in the show 

672
00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:59,200
and she might not have done that
but but on that show the 

673
00:35:59,200 --> 00:36:01,700
character Elizabeth Holmes is 
allowed to have like really full

674
00:36:01,700 --> 00:36:05,300
emotional arcs and like you get 
the sense of a complete human 

675
00:36:05,300 --> 00:36:08,000
being. 
Whereas for some reason the 

676
00:36:08,008 --> 00:36:11,900
Travis character was a Joseph 
Gordon-Levitt he is basically 

677
00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:15,400
directed to act like the 
two-dimensional person of rice. 

678
00:36:15,500 --> 00:36:17,700
Paper stories, which is like 
bizarre. 

679
00:36:18,300 --> 00:36:21,100
Yeah, there's no real attempt to
broaden out his character, at 

680
00:36:21,100 --> 00:36:23,100
all. 
They're also saddled with some 

681
00:36:23,100 --> 00:36:26,400
pretty bad lines. 
The writing you think this scrap

682
00:36:26,400 --> 00:36:29,800
it and the acting the script? 
He's working with a tough. 

683
00:36:30,300 --> 00:36:35,300
Yeah, Daddy just wasn't just 
adhered to closely to the book 

684
00:36:35,300 --> 00:36:36,800
and I liked the book so I get 
it. 

685
00:36:36,800 --> 00:36:38,600
But it's like they just it's not
a show. 

686
00:36:39,300 --> 00:36:43,200
Yeah, the they were so much 
Thurman is actually very much. 

687
00:36:43,300 --> 00:36:47,200
I really like the Arianna, like 
I'd watch Yeah, me either. 

688
00:36:47,200 --> 00:36:49,400
She's good. 
I mean they really come up. 

689
00:36:49,700 --> 00:36:52,800
I was so worried that they were 
going to like girlboss, er, for 

690
00:36:52,800 --> 00:36:56,600
the lack of a better term but 
like she is definitely more 

691
00:36:56,600 --> 00:36:59,000
Svengali, like, you know, 
totally flat. 

692
00:36:59,000 --> 00:37:01,100
Oh, she's cut for the items, 
like, for sure. 

693
00:37:01,100 --> 00:37:04,400
Yeah. 
She's that's great character 

694
00:37:04,400 --> 00:37:07,900
and, and has a truthiness. 
I think they sort of put her in 

695
00:37:07,900 --> 00:37:12,000
like, Ariana is summary. 
But Ariana is so known to the 

696
00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:14,500
public already. 
So, if you're the actor, trying 

697
00:37:14,500 --> 00:37:17,700
to get ready to play, Her. 
You don't have to rely on the 

698
00:37:17,700 --> 00:37:20,400
book material, really. 
All like, if you're, if you're 

699
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:22,500
Joseph Gordon-Levitt and you're 
like, I need to figure out how 

700
00:37:22,508 --> 00:37:24,700
to play Travis. 
You've got the book, and you've 

701
00:37:24,700 --> 00:37:28,000
got his, like, public 
appearances, which are pretty 

702
00:37:28,200 --> 00:37:29,400
flat. 
And then you have these 

703
00:37:29,400 --> 00:37:32,200
newspaper stories, but if you're
preparing to play Arianna, 

704
00:37:32,200 --> 00:37:34,500
Huffington, you have so much 
great shit. 

705
00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,500
Like, you have, all of her 
public appearances, and the fact

706
00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:42,700
that she was a political pundit 
her her role in politics like 

707
00:37:42,800 --> 00:37:45,200
her, this is the books, even the
book. 

708
00:37:45,200 --> 00:37:48,000
She's And like, she's written 
some random books about like an 

709
00:37:48,000 --> 00:37:49,900
opera star. 
I mean, she's just sort of a 

710
00:37:50,500 --> 00:37:52,800
bigger personality, right? 
It almost happened to my 

711
00:37:52,800 --> 00:37:55,200
terminal, just so good. 
She's just very good. 

712
00:37:55,300 --> 00:37:56,900
Yeah, yeah. 
Anderson here. 

713
00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:58,800
It is. 
Sort of the argument for like 

714
00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:03,600
the best actors do sort of 
insist on being able to act in a

715
00:38:03,600 --> 00:38:07,800
way that. 
Yeah, there's such a thing. 

716
00:38:07,800 --> 00:38:11,200
I like like every Montage scene 
of the over serious, I basically

717
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:13,200
loved. 
I feel like the theme song of 

718
00:38:13,207 --> 00:38:14,700
the show is literally West 
world. 

719
00:38:14,700 --> 00:38:16,400
Has anyone else noticed? 
Notice that like? 

720
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:18,700
Yeah, it's got. 
It's like, it's like, it's like 

721
00:38:18,700 --> 00:38:21,300
this seem like, it's probably 
eats. 

722
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:24,700
It feels like it's like total. 
I like it. 

723
00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:27,100
Can I die? 
I want to talk about the dry. 

724
00:38:27,100 --> 00:38:28,300
Oh, yeah. 
But quickly before you do that, 

725
00:38:28,308 --> 00:38:30,400
because that's a real story. 
So I just want to mention a 

726
00:38:30,400 --> 00:38:33,300
couple of quick notes that I 
made during it, in terms of bad 

727
00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:36,300
lines that beats, get these 
actors had to deliver during the

728
00:38:36,300 --> 00:38:40,800
Uber Vegas party, which I think 
is completely out of time wise. 

729
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:41,800
They made it sound like that was
before. 

730
00:38:41,800 --> 00:38:44,000
They had done over X, but I 
think they'd I don't think 

731
00:38:44,100 --> 00:38:48,100
they've Jill things from The 
Miami party for the Vegas party,

732
00:38:48,100 --> 00:38:50,900
right? 
And I think, Rachel and Jill had

733
00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:53,800
not joined yet by the time of 
the Vegas party, right? 

734
00:38:54,500 --> 00:38:56,400
I think they weren't there for 
the Miami party and I think a 

735
00:38:56,400 --> 00:38:58,700
lot of the controversial things 
happen during the Miami party 

736
00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:00,500
and they move them to the Vegas 
story. 

737
00:39:01,100 --> 00:39:04,400
But I think Jill Rachel magazine
party, you get the feeling in 

738
00:39:04,400 --> 00:39:06,100
real life. 
They would not have just been at

739
00:39:06,100 --> 00:39:09,100
the party babysitting people, 
right hands, right. 

740
00:39:09,100 --> 00:39:11,800
They would have been likely have
minions and you can talk to 

741
00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:12,400
them. 
Right? 

742
00:39:12,400 --> 00:39:15,300
Deal with this bullshit. 
Like, but like the presses 

743
00:39:15,500 --> 00:39:16,800
There. 
And then there's a line that one

744
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:18,500
of the journalists characters 
has to say. 

745
00:39:18,900 --> 00:39:21,900
There's dirt out there but I 
brought a shovel that makes no 

746
00:39:21,900 --> 00:39:23,700
sense. 
Made me feel like the the 

747
00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:26,100
creators of the show actually 
secretly hate reporters that 

748
00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:28,300
they would make that line 
happen, right? 

749
00:39:28,300 --> 00:39:30,400
Yeah. 
Which I mean I'm down with but 

750
00:39:30,400 --> 00:39:31,700
you know I don't know if the 
show is going to go in that 

751
00:39:31,700 --> 00:39:36,300
direction. 
There's a line, you know, you're

752
00:39:36,300 --> 00:39:38,300
going to be like Silent Bob but 
she's as trap. 

753
00:39:38,300 --> 00:39:41,200
Chatty is Tracy flick. 
I don't know what the fuck that 

754
00:39:41,200 --> 00:39:44,500
supposed to mean, that was like 
deep 90s referencing that was 

755
00:39:44,500 --> 00:39:47,500
like, if you Didn't know from 
the telling you about the genic 

756
00:39:47,500 --> 00:39:49,600
show. 
Well, you get those references, 

757
00:39:49,600 --> 00:39:50,500
right? 
Right. 

758
00:39:50,500 --> 00:39:52,200
Yes, I do get the reference and 
I'm just saying it. 

759
00:39:52,200 --> 00:39:55,100
I'm like, yeah. 
Tom certainly understand if Tom 

760
00:39:55,100 --> 00:39:57,300
doesn't get the reverence, like,
I don't know how they could even

761
00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,300
put that on there. 
It's just the bass line. 

762
00:40:00,200 --> 00:40:03,600
Also, this idea that like Bill 
girly is anti buying lifts at 

763
00:40:03,600 --> 00:40:07,300
first, made zero sense to me. 
And then, in the, when they're 

764
00:40:07,300 --> 00:40:11,100
raising money from Google at 
some point girly, a saddle door,

765
00:40:11,100 --> 00:40:13,600
Kyle genocide with the line 
doesn't don't be evil ring a 

766
00:40:13,607 --> 00:40:16,800
bell. 
It's a pretty lame thing for 

767
00:40:16,800 --> 00:40:20,600
Bill girly to have to say. 
And that my last thing is the 

768
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:23,700
last two things. 
I don't know what research, they

769
00:40:23,700 --> 00:40:26,700
did on David Drummond, but they 
didn't. 

770
00:40:26,700 --> 00:40:33,600
They basically like maiden, like
shaft with, like the actual 

771
00:40:33,600 --> 00:40:37,300
David Drummond this, like it's 
kind of a, you know, kind of a 

772
00:40:37,300 --> 00:40:39,900
dorky guy who had like a, he's a
lawyer, he's a lawyer. 

773
00:40:39,900 --> 00:40:44,000
He had like a very bizarre 
scandal at Uber in which he had 

774
00:40:44,000 --> 00:40:46,100
a relationship. 
With one of his, you know, 

775
00:40:46,100 --> 00:40:49,000
reports that I mean it, Google 
it Google. 

776
00:40:49,000 --> 00:40:51,800
Yeah, yeah. 
That it's just, I don't know. 

777
00:40:51,800 --> 00:40:56,100
I just have to let the actors 
who were playing secondary 

778
00:40:56,100 --> 00:40:58,100
characters. 
Bring like a lot to the 

779
00:40:58,100 --> 00:41:02,600
character I guess like a lot of 
something but then that people 

780
00:41:02,600 --> 00:41:07,500
playing the main characters are 
not allowed to do too much. 

781
00:41:07,800 --> 00:41:11,700
Yeah, it is, I don't know. 
I'm no director so what right? 

782
00:41:11,700 --> 00:41:14,200
Do I know at the very least make
it a good show which I don't 

783
00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:17,300
know if they It's within that. 
And then the last thing, here is

784
00:41:17,300 --> 00:41:21,200
like the Gabby character. 
They make it sound. 

785
00:41:21,200 --> 00:41:24,600
Like she was like playing at 
farmer's markets and stuff and 

786
00:41:24,600 --> 00:41:26,700
just sort of like buscan, it in 
order to make a living. 

787
00:41:26,700 --> 00:41:29,800
I mean, guy who was playing in 
pretty random place, she was 

788
00:41:29,800 --> 00:41:32,400
playing, she was a busker, she 
thought it was a busker, but she

789
00:41:32,408 --> 00:41:34,000
was also playing like it, you 
know, high in. 

790
00:41:34,100 --> 00:41:36,600
She was basically booked as the 
violin player at like all she 

791
00:41:36,600 --> 00:41:39,700
played at the informations 
launch party. 

792
00:41:39,700 --> 00:41:43,100
Yeah, which I can't believe is 
where she met Travis, isn't it? 

793
00:41:43,100 --> 00:41:46,700
No, he wasn't there. 
Wasn't you know she met Travis I

794
00:41:46,700 --> 00:41:49,700
think through shervin but we're 
going to chervin park, apply 

795
00:41:51,000 --> 00:41:55,100
this secret about that. 
Well, she met Sherman first, 

796
00:41:55,100 --> 00:41:57,900
I'll just I really sure if it is
a name that has been exercised 

797
00:41:57,900 --> 00:42:00,000
because nobody wants to get 
sued, like he's not even 

798
00:42:00,000 --> 00:42:03,100
mentioned in the show. 
Like he's a composite character,

799
00:42:03,100 --> 00:42:06,300
it seems to me. 
Anyway, it gets it gets your 

800
00:42:06,300 --> 00:42:10,000
thing about how you feel in the 
show but no, no, it's a good 

801
00:42:10,000 --> 00:42:14,000
story. 
Well, Yeah, I mean so basically,

802
00:42:14,000 --> 00:42:17,600
in the most recent, they're 
still releasing the episodes of 

803
00:42:17,600 --> 00:42:21,900
super pumped. 
They they have sort of a dueling

804
00:42:21,900 --> 00:42:24,000
narrative. 
They have Susan Fowler, you 

805
00:42:24,000 --> 00:42:27,900
know, preparing to write her 
blog post and then they have fo 

806
00:42:27,900 --> 00:42:34,100
Z Kamel who's the driver who 
released his video to the world 

807
00:42:34,500 --> 00:42:41,000
and They basically, you know, 
you know, this, this is one of 

808
00:42:41,008 --> 00:42:44,700
my big scoop so I, you know, 
take it very personally but 

809
00:42:44,700 --> 00:42:52,300
basically they have fauzi like 
go talk to a lawyer before he's 

810
00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:57,600
releasing this video. 
And then he and his wife posted 

811
00:42:57,600 --> 00:43:01,200
to YouTube in the show and he's 
like, quit his job and they're 

812
00:43:01,200 --> 00:43:06,800
like, ready to launch the video.
And I'm the Real story I think 

813
00:43:06,800 --> 00:43:10,200
is a better story than this so 
in the real world first of all 

814
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:14,000
fo Z emails, me like a pretty 
unhinged email. 

815
00:43:14,000 --> 00:43:18,400
This is At 10:55 on February. 
Well, I guess it was San 

816
00:43:18,400 --> 00:43:23,400
Francisco, so I must have been 
755 February, 22nd, 2017. 

817
00:43:23,700 --> 00:43:27,100
I get an email subject line 
about boober. 

818
00:43:28,200 --> 00:43:30,600
The name of the account, is West
Coast Limousine. 

819
00:43:31,000 --> 00:43:33,800
He says, I started driving for 
Uber and 2011. 

820
00:43:34,000 --> 00:43:36,600
So I know the company from the 
beginning and I can introduce 

821
00:43:36,600 --> 00:43:40,400
you to drivers who started in 
2010, under Ryan Graves, we all 

822
00:43:40,400 --> 00:43:44,800
know the dirty, Uber Thief, last
Sunday, I picked up Travis, and 

823
00:43:44,800 --> 00:43:48,300
I told him, That non none of the
drivers trust him anymore, 

824
00:43:48,700 --> 00:43:51,200
because he cheated the drivers 
who promoted his idea at the 

825
00:43:51,200 --> 00:43:52,800
beginning and made him who he 
is. 

826
00:43:52,800 --> 00:43:56,000
Today, he got mad and slam my 
car door. 

827
00:43:56,300 --> 00:44:00,300
The point I'm trying to make is 
the answer of uber CEO after I 

828
00:44:00,308 --> 00:44:03,800
told him that I bank that I am 
bankrupt because of him didn't 

829
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:07,900
seem as an answer of a CEO. 
Sorry, I'm having to there's a 

830
00:44:07,908 --> 00:44:10,300
little bit of a grammatical 
problems in the email. 

831
00:44:10,300 --> 00:44:14,900
I'm trying to fix myself. 
Anyway, I have all this in video

832
00:44:15,100 --> 00:44:18,300
be Be my guest to see it. 
I just wanted to go viral 

833
00:44:18,300 --> 00:44:23,600
because the CEO is an asshole, 
arrogant piece of piece a shit. 

834
00:44:23,700 --> 00:44:26,100
Thank you. 
Fo Z Kamel, Baba. 

835
00:44:26,300 --> 00:44:29,100
And then I just reply, send me 
the video. 

836
00:44:29,100 --> 00:44:33,700
Give me the video and and he 
says, I will make it go viral 

837
00:44:33,700 --> 00:44:34,800
miss. 
You won't put it out there 

838
00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,600
without my permission and you 
can tell me what you'll do with 

839
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:40,000
it, but wha and I say, OK, I 
agree. 

840
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,000
I won't post it without your 
permission curious to see and 

841
00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:45,300
I'm like, you sending and then 
he sends it to me. 

842
00:44:46,200 --> 00:44:50,400
And you know, like it's like 
amazing and so then the rest of 

843
00:44:50,400 --> 00:44:54,100
the Saga, it's like over like to
two or three days. 

844
00:44:54,100 --> 00:44:58,400
Maybe less I have like written 
the story. 

845
00:44:58,500 --> 00:45:01,400
I've like circulated the video 
at Bloomberg and so people are 

846
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,600
getting like super excited about
this video and I'm trying to 

847
00:45:04,600 --> 00:45:09,400
convince what was he to let me 
run the video and he is still 

848
00:45:09,400 --> 00:45:13,000
driving for Uber between leaking
this video. 

849
00:45:13,500 --> 00:45:14,900
Till I take down the companies 
here. 

850
00:45:15,100 --> 00:45:16,800
Sorry. 
He's just like he's just driving

851
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,500
during the day and I'm trying to
catch him when he's not driving,

852
00:45:19,600 --> 00:45:22,500
I know but so they make it like 
he's like thrown in the towel on

853
00:45:22,500 --> 00:45:26,000
the show but really this guy is 
still like doing the job of an 

854
00:45:26,000 --> 00:45:29,900
Uber driver while we're drivers.
Living wage. 

855
00:45:29,900 --> 00:45:32,500
He maybe could have quit and 
found a better job, right? 

856
00:45:32,600 --> 00:45:35,300
Yeah. 
So then we put we poet Bloomberg

857
00:45:35,300 --> 00:45:37,500
posts. 
It goes as you know, super viral

858
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:39,800
and I do think it played a big 
role in. 

859
00:45:40,700 --> 00:45:44,700
You know, people love video. 
I'm not taking Travis aside or 

860
00:45:44,707 --> 00:45:46,500
anything like that. 
Just saying it when they so 

861
00:45:46,500 --> 00:45:50,800
clearly as the show and the book
frankly represents that bill 

862
00:45:50,800 --> 00:45:54,300
girly was on the side of good 
that he was like the person, the

863
00:45:54,300 --> 00:45:57,200
only person pushing for a 
positive outcome here it negates

864
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:01,000
the fact that he also helps 
create this monster if you want 

865
00:46:01,000 --> 00:46:03,500
to call it that and profited 
handsomely from it. 

866
00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:07,400
And isn't that just the old 
content that they have is to 

867
00:46:07,400 --> 00:46:11,200
either give the money? 
It's like all you can do is ask 

868
00:46:11,200 --> 00:46:13,700
the CEO. 
That's my, it's like you can 

869
00:46:13,700 --> 00:46:15,900
tell, you can give them advice 
but if they're not Not taking 

870
00:46:15,900 --> 00:46:18,900
your advice, it's really your 
for the CEO or you're against 

871
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:21,600
the CEO. 
And I that I think that is the 

872
00:46:21,600 --> 00:46:25,600
bill girly defense, which is 
gave good advice, didn't have 

873
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:27,700
real power. 
I mean, now the benchmarks 

874
00:46:27,700 --> 00:46:30,400
willingness to just like give up
found, you know, power over and 

875
00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:32,200
over again. 
I think that would be sort of 

876
00:46:32,200 --> 00:46:35,700
the, the real Benchmark critique
which is just like they've 

877
00:46:35,900 --> 00:46:39,900
relinquished sort of voting 
control in exchange for making 

878
00:46:39,900 --> 00:46:42,900
tons of money, because that's 
what the lunatic Founders are 

879
00:46:42,900 --> 00:46:43,900
going to make them tons of 
money. 

880
00:46:43,900 --> 00:46:45,200
Want like, that would be my 
main. 

881
00:46:45,500 --> 00:46:49,600
My critique would be the fail, 
they have a brand as a steward 

882
00:46:49,700 --> 00:46:52,300
of these companies but if they 
were really a steward of the 

883
00:46:52,300 --> 00:46:55,400
company they would retain enough
power to behave that way they 

884
00:46:55,400 --> 00:46:58,200
don't. 
And that disjunction is the main

885
00:46:58,400 --> 00:47:01,800
Benchmark has and my heart to 
another Benchmark company. 

886
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:02,900
Right? 
Right. 

887
00:47:02,900 --> 00:47:04,600
Right. 
Yeah, it's all it's all fun 

888
00:47:04,600 --> 00:47:07,300
until they start realizing that,
you know, this is affecting 

889
00:47:07,300 --> 00:47:09,900
their their returns. 
You know. 

890
00:47:09,900 --> 00:47:13,700
Like this is a financially, 
crippling cultural problems but 

891
00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:15,200
but some of the anti Benchmark 
people. 

892
00:47:15,400 --> 00:47:18,400
Would say things like, they care
too much about their reputation,

893
00:47:18,400 --> 00:47:21,400
you know, there is sort of like,
they care too much about the 

894
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,500
Norms that every the rest of the
world cares about, right? 

895
00:47:24,500 --> 00:47:29,200
I think, I think my favorite 
covering over moment was when I 

896
00:47:29,200 --> 00:47:34,600
believe you two, and Mike, we 
were at my house playing Ticket 

897
00:47:34,600 --> 00:47:38,600
to Ride, mmm. 
And we were completely hammered,

898
00:47:39,100 --> 00:47:42,300
and writers. 
Might have broken an Uber story 

899
00:47:42,300 --> 00:47:47,700
and, yeah, one of the wires, 
With no matching of that story, 

900
00:47:47,800 --> 00:47:51,000
right? 
Crap we've been here we were in 

901
00:47:51,000 --> 00:47:55,700
no position the information. 
I think maybe Rolf us are in the

902
00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:56,900
Wall. 
Street Journal was just like 

903
00:47:56,900 --> 00:47:58,800
that was not happening. 
Yeah. 

904
00:47:59,400 --> 00:48:03,200
There's certain stories that 
you're not up for at certain 

905
00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,100
times a night. 
So let's finish up with the the 

906
00:48:06,100 --> 00:48:08,900
show that probably has the most 
prestige behind it. 

907
00:48:08,900 --> 00:48:11,400
Like the one that I think is 
probably going to get submitted 

908
00:48:11,400 --> 00:48:14,900
the most for awards and I think 
has maybe the most appeal to 

909
00:48:14,900 --> 00:48:15,600
people. 
Oil. 

910
00:48:15,600 --> 00:48:17,500
Well, I don't know, maybe the we
work so because it has big 

911
00:48:17,500 --> 00:48:20,400
actors in it big stars, but the 
one that Rosa was watching on 

912
00:48:20,400 --> 00:48:23,900
her own without me telling her 
to and she is now so obsessed 

913
00:48:23,900 --> 00:48:26,000
with the Thera. 
No story that she's listening to

914
00:48:26,000 --> 00:48:29,600
the podcast as well. 
So it's, you know, I think it 

915
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:32,400
may end up the one that has the 
most cultural impact. 

916
00:48:33,600 --> 00:48:36,300
And I would say, probably 
features the bet, well, I don't 

917
00:48:36,300 --> 00:48:38,800
know the best. 
It's, there's a lot going in 

918
00:48:38,800 --> 00:48:40,100
there. 
And I think it features the most

919
00:48:40,100 --> 00:48:43,800
layered character of any of the 
center ones here which is which 

920
00:48:43,800 --> 00:48:46,200
is Elizabeth Holmes. 
And like how She ended up the 

921
00:48:46,207 --> 00:48:51,500
way that she did, I don't know 
what you guys crashing of her, 

922
00:48:51,800 --> 00:48:56,500
as a character, the thing that I
think the thing that it does 

923
00:48:56,600 --> 00:49:02,300
that Travis character doesn't do
as much as it gives you a way to

924
00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:05,600
actually like her, you know, I 
mean, it's sort of portrays her 

925
00:49:05,600 --> 00:49:08,400
as it's extremely frazzled 
person for a while that you can 

926
00:49:08,400 --> 00:49:10,700
kind of relate to. 
It's the most sympathetic, she's

927
00:49:11,100 --> 00:49:16,800
not just that pressures but 
like, her own You know, her her 

928
00:49:17,700 --> 00:49:21,400
and maybe this is just because I
think a lot of people relate to 

929
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:23,700
this is that you're taught to do
a lot of things. 

930
00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:26,300
If you're a smart person but 
you're not necessarily taught 

931
00:49:26,300 --> 00:49:29,200
how to present yourself, you're 
not taught, how to handle a ton 

932
00:49:29,200 --> 00:49:31,400
of pressure. 
You're not taught necessarily 

933
00:49:31,600 --> 00:49:33,700
how to present yourself in a big
meeting. 

934
00:49:33,800 --> 00:49:37,300
And so watching that kind of 
constant transformation, you you

935
00:49:37,300 --> 00:49:40,600
have some empathy for her, which
is I think what you need in 

936
00:49:40,600 --> 00:49:45,000
order to get through an entire 
TV show with somebody. 

937
00:49:45,500 --> 00:49:48,700
As with Travis it with the 
exception of the way they 

938
00:49:48,800 --> 00:49:52,300
portray his mother which I think
is is done, you know. 

939
00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:57,400
Listen, I think that's fine. 
I think that with Travis with 

940
00:49:57,400 --> 00:50:00,800
the exception of his mom they 
don't give you much about him. 

941
00:50:00,800 --> 00:50:04,000
That makes you like him and he's
just portrayed as kind of a 

942
00:50:04,008 --> 00:50:08,400
one-note fairly chest. 
Something like ridiculous 

943
00:50:08,400 --> 00:50:10,300
person. 
And so that makes it hard. 

944
00:50:10,300 --> 00:50:13,100
It's gonna make it hard to get 
through like a whole series. 

945
00:50:13,300 --> 00:50:15,500
Right? 
It feels very repetitive and I 

946
00:50:15,500 --> 00:50:19,600
guess they also with with the 
Dropout with Elizabeth Holmes, 

947
00:50:19,900 --> 00:50:23,700
you need to have that kind of 
sympathy with the character 

948
00:50:23,700 --> 00:50:26,500
because ultimately she's the one
that ends up doing the worst 

949
00:50:26,500 --> 00:50:29,700
thing of all of them. 
I mean, she's the one in which 

950
00:50:29,700 --> 00:50:32,800
the result of her company is the
most unalloyed bad. 

951
00:50:32,900 --> 00:50:36,500
There was no product there. 
I mean, I interviewed John 

952
00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:38,400
Kerry. 
Roo when his book, when he's 

953
00:50:38,400 --> 00:50:40,900
doing his book tour at the time,
and I remember asking him, like,

954
00:50:41,100 --> 00:50:43,500
was there any science? 
Any research that came out of 

955
00:50:43,500 --> 00:50:47,000
Thera knows that is of some use.
The scientific community and he 

956
00:50:47,000 --> 00:50:50,100
was like no nothing like in the 
end, there was really truly 

957
00:50:50,100 --> 00:50:53,600
nothing there and the fact that,
you know, these tests were being

958
00:50:53,600 --> 00:50:57,500
used in actual Walgreens around 
the country and people were 

959
00:50:57,500 --> 00:51:01,000
given inaccurate test results 
and all of that figured into, 

960
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:05,400
you know, the the government's 
case against her, there were 

961
00:51:05,400 --> 00:51:07,700
real consequences here. 
Born out of the fact that she 

962
00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:10,800
did the absolute worst thing. 
And so to tell the story and not

963
00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:13,700
just have her be like a 
psychopath on day one, they have

964
00:51:13,700 --> 00:51:15,200
to sort of show like the 
transformation. 

965
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:17,400
Of her character. 
So like storytelling. 

966
00:51:17,400 --> 00:51:19,900
Why if they had to do that 
Katie, I'm curious. 

967
00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:22,200
What's your close reading of 
the? 

968
00:51:22,600 --> 00:51:26,100
They have the sort of female 
Professor sort of interacting 

969
00:51:26,100 --> 00:51:28,900
with Elizabeth Holmes? 
Did you see that episode Laurie?

970
00:51:28,900 --> 00:51:33,400
Metcalf, who is like basically 
just amazing and everything. 

971
00:51:33,400 --> 00:51:40,000
She does Elizabeth Holmes, like 
go to this. 

972
00:51:40,400 --> 00:51:44,200
Stanford Professor who she's 
been referred to and she has 

973
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:48,200
sort of, you know, Blueprints 
for I think it's when she was 

974
00:51:48,200 --> 00:51:52,300
working on a patch or a 
different different device and 

975
00:51:52,300 --> 00:51:57,100
the professor's just like you 
know this won't work you know 

976
00:51:57,100 --> 00:52:01,200
it's a very it's a very anti 
Silicon Valley speech you know 

977
00:52:01,200 --> 00:52:06,100
it's like science requires like 
a lot of work and time and 

978
00:52:06,300 --> 00:52:09,900
expertise right? 
Well it gets to the core of like

979
00:52:09,900 --> 00:52:12,600
what annoys me so much about 
certain types of Founders here 

980
00:52:12,600 --> 00:52:15,000
which is like a belief that 
there can just be miracles. 

981
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:17,700
That there's can be one founder 
who's doing something that no 

982
00:52:17,700 --> 00:52:20,900
one has ever thought of before 
that is like, leap Leaps and 

983
00:52:20,900 --> 00:52:22,900
Bounds, but they're not for the 
rest of the industry, I don't 

984
00:52:22,900 --> 00:52:25,000
think so. 
I think everything builds off of

985
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:29,000
a foundation of pre-existing 
work and there is just sure, 

986
00:52:29,000 --> 00:52:32,700
World in which someone can come 
up with, you know, some 

987
00:52:32,700 --> 00:52:34,900
scientific device. 
That is just completely 

988
00:52:34,900 --> 00:52:37,900
different than anything anyone 
has ever tried that. 

989
00:52:37,900 --> 00:52:40,100
No, this pisses me off 
specifically with like, Elon, 

990
00:52:40,300 --> 00:52:42,300
because I think there are people
out there who think like he's a 

991
00:52:42,300 --> 00:52:44,700
miracle worker, who's doing 
something that's completely 

992
00:52:44,700 --> 00:52:47,100
different. 
Anyone else in the car world is 

993
00:52:47,100 --> 00:52:50,200
doing and it's like, no, it's 
all sort of like smart marketing

994
00:52:50,200 --> 00:52:52,700
on top, right? 
That is so powerful. 

995
00:52:52,700 --> 00:52:55,900
I mean, that's sort of what's 
Illustrated in the we work show,

996
00:52:56,000 --> 00:52:58,000
right? 
That his ability to sort of 

997
00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:01,300
charm people into thinking, you 
know, what commercial real 

998
00:53:01,300 --> 00:53:05,000
estate is innovative is 
transformational, and guess to 

999
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:08,200
see it so differently. 
And then tap them, that's was 

1000
00:53:08,200 --> 00:53:10,700
the was the numbers, right? 
Exactly. 

1001
00:53:10,700 --> 00:53:13,900
And this professor said, to 
Elizabeth Holmes feeling, like 

1002
00:53:13,900 --> 00:53:17,500
she needs to like, Put put 
Elizabeth in her place and tell 

1003
00:53:17,500 --> 00:53:19,400
her to take her time when when 
it is. 

1004
00:53:19,400 --> 00:53:23,700
Like no we want to cultivate the
spark and the drive to action. 

1005
00:53:23,900 --> 00:53:27,500
It's just the key lesson, would 
be this doesn't work, you need 

1006
00:53:27,500 --> 00:53:30,400
to be truthful but I do feel 
like what made that scene 

1007
00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:33,300
interesting was that the 
professor was all, was both 

1008
00:53:33,300 --> 00:53:37,600
telling her a truth and was sort
of like and don't be so excited 

1009
00:53:37,600 --> 00:53:40,600
that you might change the world.
And I do think that's sort of 

1010
00:53:40,700 --> 00:53:44,500
the problem with the academic 
type is that it's like you've 

1011
00:53:44,500 --> 00:53:48,300
been sort of beat Down and you 
don't have the naivete to say. 

1012
00:53:48,800 --> 00:53:51,900
Let's let's try to build a 
company out of this, this idea. 

1013
00:53:52,000 --> 00:53:54,700
I mean like just sort of pulling
back a little bit on the idea 

1014
00:53:54,700 --> 00:53:56,100
because I think it's super 
interesting. 

1015
00:53:56,100 --> 00:53:59,500
I don't have I don't know what 
like there's so many sides to 

1016
00:53:59,500 --> 00:54:02,000
it, I'm not sure exactly where I
come down, but I think that 

1017
00:54:02,000 --> 00:54:06,800
we're seeing sort of beyond that
like the teens as we're getting 

1018
00:54:06,800 --> 00:54:10,600
into this. 
Next decade this idea of it's 

1019
00:54:10,600 --> 00:54:13,900
great to be extremely 
enthusiastic and move super 

1020
00:54:13,900 --> 00:54:19,300
fast. 
And you know, the that's enough.

1021
00:54:19,700 --> 00:54:22,600
I think it's starting to be 
questioned, not for the reasons 

1022
00:54:22,600 --> 00:54:26,100
necessarily in that speech. 
But just because we're starting 

1023
00:54:26,100 --> 00:54:31,000
to see that enthusiasm alone 
without consistent, hard work 

1024
00:54:31,000 --> 00:54:32,400
and dedication to whatever it 
is. 

1025
00:54:32,400 --> 00:54:36,100
You want to do, does not work. 
I think that we're seeing that 

1026
00:54:36,100 --> 00:54:40,200
with for example you could 
cynically art argue that, that's

1027
00:54:40,200 --> 00:54:41,700
the issue of the democratic 
party. 

1028
00:54:41,700 --> 00:54:45,100
Right now, there are so much 
spark around a Barack Obama, but

1029
00:54:45,100 --> 00:54:48,400
once It was clear that that 
wasn't enough. 

1030
00:54:48,600 --> 00:54:51,100
Where is everyone including 
Barack Obama? 

1031
00:54:51,700 --> 00:54:53,700
Like to try to look enough with 
sure. 

1032
00:54:54,200 --> 00:54:56,600
Yeah, right. 
That's the problem. 

1033
00:54:56,800 --> 00:54:59,700
I'm to try to like, Shore up 
what we think of as a working 

1034
00:54:59,700 --> 00:55:02,000
democracy. 
You know, when you look at 

1035
00:55:02,000 --> 00:55:06,100
something like this long 
horrifying drawn-out War that's 

1036
00:55:06,100 --> 00:55:08,000
happening in Europe. 
It could go on for a really long

1037
00:55:08,000 --> 00:55:10,500
time. 
Well, if the public doesn't 

1038
00:55:10,500 --> 00:55:13,600
really have the stomach for or 
the patience for or the interest

1039
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,700
over a long period of time, what
does that say about us in our 

1040
00:55:16,800 --> 00:55:20,900
ability to be, you know, leaders
as a country on a world stage. 

1041
00:55:20,900 --> 00:55:23,300
So I think that there are sort 
of these bigger questions being 

1042
00:55:23,300 --> 00:55:27,700
asked about was was being spunky
and excited enough. 

1043
00:55:28,200 --> 00:55:32,500
I think boobers worked hard that
Hoover worked on the business 

1044
00:55:32,500 --> 00:55:35,600
model was challenged and we were
and continues to add. 

1045
00:55:35,600 --> 00:55:37,900
I didn't necessarily work. 
He was, you know, very 

1046
00:55:37,900 --> 00:55:40,600
passionate, just saying on that 
speech, that you described, 

1047
00:55:40,600 --> 00:55:42,300
which I think is really 
interesting. 

1048
00:55:43,000 --> 00:55:47,600
The, the question of whether or 
Not that assumption that 

1049
00:55:48,500 --> 00:55:52,300
enthusiasm and creativity and 
upending, the apple cart and 

1050
00:55:52,308 --> 00:55:54,300
doing it all. 
New is enough that there has to 

1051
00:55:54,300 --> 00:55:56,700
be somewhat more of a balance 
maybe between that. 

1052
00:55:56,700 --> 00:56:01,700
And these stodger ideas about 
diligence it's like the 

1053
00:56:01,700 --> 00:56:05,500
dichotomy between branding and 
results, like Sizzle and steak 

1054
00:56:05,600 --> 00:56:08,200
or like something that's 
revolutionary and like 

1055
00:56:08,200 --> 00:56:12,500
evolutionary, it's like if 
absent any sort of Revolution, 

1056
00:56:12,500 --> 00:56:14,900
it's just really about what can 
I brand it in a way? 

1057
00:56:15,300 --> 00:56:18,400
That that makes it sound like 
it's that and you know like 

1058
00:56:18,400 --> 00:56:20,900
Steve Jobs who obviously was 
like to bring it back to 

1059
00:56:20,908 --> 00:56:23,400
Elizabeth Holmes. 
Literally she's like staring at 

1060
00:56:23,400 --> 00:56:25,700
a picture, a poster of him on 
her wall saying I want to do 

1061
00:56:25,700 --> 00:56:28,000
that and you know that leads to 
a transfer my judgment. 

1062
00:56:29,300 --> 00:56:32,700
Like I really I don't know if we
were suppose she got like so 

1063
00:56:32,700 --> 00:56:34,100
close. 
I was like are they gonna have 

1064
00:56:34,100 --> 00:56:36,200
her kiss the poster of Steve 
Jobs? 

1065
00:56:36,500 --> 00:56:40,200
She just be food at the shower. 
Yeah, exactly. 

1066
00:56:40,200 --> 00:56:42,400
She took makes out with herself.
The rest of us I know what was 

1067
00:56:42,400 --> 00:56:46,200
their great mirror scenes. 
I mean it's He is really good. 

1068
00:56:46,200 --> 00:56:48,500
Looking in a mirror. 
How do you think it's a very 

1069
00:56:48,500 --> 00:56:50,800
good job acting? 
Yeah. 

1070
00:56:50,800 --> 00:56:52,500
What Rosa called the Golem? 
See. 

1071
00:56:52,500 --> 00:56:54,000
It does feel a little like try 
it. 

1072
00:56:55,100 --> 00:56:56,300
Yeah. 
When she tries out the voice 

1073
00:56:56,300 --> 00:56:59,200
anyway, sorry to reload you're 
making but Steve Jobs, you know,

1074
00:56:59,200 --> 00:57:03,600
is the certainly as close to a 
revolutionary as a CEO is anyone

1075
00:57:03,600 --> 00:57:06,900
was in the valley But ultimately
he was just building, you know, 

1076
00:57:07,100 --> 00:57:11,500
very good at branding something 
that other people were working 

1077
00:57:11,500 --> 00:57:13,000
on as well. 
You know, there was a 

1078
00:57:13,008 --> 00:57:15,400
transformation of the personal 
computer and then the hand Held 

1079
00:57:15,400 --> 00:57:18,100
device, all these things existed
but his was like, let me make it

1080
00:57:18,107 --> 00:57:20,300
more attractive. 
Let me brand it in a way that's 

1081
00:57:20,300 --> 00:57:22,000
unique and that's what's going 
to be. 

1082
00:57:22,000 --> 00:57:24,800
That makes, you know, that's 
going to be the the traction 

1083
00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,600
that gets the public excited 
about it. 

1084
00:57:26,600 --> 00:57:28,900
I couldn't agree with what 
you're saying, but I feel like 

1085
00:57:28,900 --> 00:57:31,800
it is argument for the end of 
time. 

1086
00:57:32,100 --> 00:57:36,600
I mean, just it's like user 
interface like it making just 

1087
00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:39,800
because sort of smartphone 
existed, the functionality of it

1088
00:57:39,800 --> 00:57:43,000
is, is like the whole game. 
I mean, it's sort of like saying

1089
00:57:43,300 --> 00:57:47,000
like, Lamborghinis, bad, because
Like it's only the Aesthetics 

1090
00:57:47,000 --> 00:57:50,100
that are good. 
It's like, that's no, but this 

1091
00:57:50,100 --> 00:57:52,800
is slightly different from the 
like, from the, this is what's 

1092
00:57:52,800 --> 00:57:55,000
so dangerous. 
I think about Silicon Valley is 

1093
00:57:55,000 --> 00:57:58,200
that, it's the, it has the, the 
skin, or it has the like 

1094
00:57:58,200 --> 00:58:01,000
appearance of it, being all 
scientific revolutionaries. 

1095
00:58:01,200 --> 00:58:03,900
When I think truly at its core, 
a lot of it is just about 

1096
00:58:03,900 --> 00:58:05,800
branding. 
Well, is that taking thing about

1097
00:58:05,800 --> 00:58:09,300
like, so guess jobs was great at
branding but the other thing he 

1098
00:58:09,300 --> 00:58:12,200
was really great at doing is 
convincing people who work for 

1099
00:58:12,200 --> 00:58:14,800
him to work. 120 hours a week. 
Right? 

1100
00:58:14,800 --> 00:58:16,700
When Sure. 
That the inside of the phone 

1101
00:58:16,700 --> 00:58:17,300
work. 
Great. 

1102
00:58:17,300 --> 00:58:20,000
And the outside looked great. 
And so yes, it was branding 

1103
00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:24,200
combined with actual real hard 
effort over a tremendously long 

1104
00:58:24,200 --> 00:58:26,500
amount of time. 
And that's the part that I think

1105
00:58:26,500 --> 00:58:29,100
the valley glosses over there 
like you're going to, you're 

1106
00:58:29,100 --> 00:58:31,600
going to have a great idea. 
I will give you the money to 

1107
00:58:31,607 --> 00:58:33,700
make it happen but they're like 
oh and by the way, you're going 

1108
00:58:33,700 --> 00:58:37,000
to work like all your entire 
life around the clock to make it

1109
00:58:37,000 --> 00:58:39,300
make it go. 
I agree with Katie and the 

1110
00:58:39,300 --> 00:58:43,800
media, yes to criticize 
ourselves is anti hard work in a

1111
00:58:43,808 --> 00:58:45,200
certain way, right? 
I would say. 

1112
00:58:45,300 --> 00:58:48,200
Borders are most. 
Nobody is beating the drum being

1113
00:58:48,200 --> 00:58:50,500
like, I feel like it is not cool
right now. 

1114
00:58:50,500 --> 00:58:52,800
To write a story being like it's
a lazy company over there. 

1115
00:58:52,800 --> 00:58:55,600
Are they really going to, you 
know, like it is, it is much 

1116
00:58:55,600 --> 00:58:58,700
more like, are they over working
people, you know, but but at the

1117
00:58:58,700 --> 00:59:01,800
end of the day, I agree that 
companies like apple are 

1118
00:59:01,800 --> 00:59:05,900
successful when when they're 
working super hard. 

1119
00:59:05,900 --> 00:59:08,000
I mean in the beginning 
obviously which I cool or 

1120
00:59:08,000 --> 00:59:10,000
whatever you can. 
So you know once you have a 

1121
00:59:10,000 --> 00:59:13,000
monopoly yeah there's tons of 
money right here that we don't 

1122
00:59:13,000 --> 00:59:15,700
need to get into it jobs. 
Right. 

1123
00:59:15,700 --> 00:59:17,800
Which is why I think, you know, 
Adam Newman and Elizabeth 

1124
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:20,500
Holmes, I'm sure they were a bit
perplexed by the fact that they 

1125
00:59:20,500 --> 00:59:23,200
ended up being villains at this 
whole story because I think 

1126
00:59:23,200 --> 00:59:25,800
their whole strategy from the 
beginning was like, we're just 

1127
00:59:25,800 --> 00:59:27,300
doing what we're supposed to be 
doing. 

1128
00:59:27,600 --> 00:59:31,000
This is about getting people to 
Believe in Us, Messianic Lee as 

1129
00:59:31,000 --> 00:59:33,100
Leaders, who have a 
revolutionary idea, making them 

1130
00:59:33,100 --> 00:59:35,600
work really hard and also 
branding something in a way that

1131
00:59:35,600 --> 00:59:38,800
the public is excited about. 
And, you know, we work as a, you

1132
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:41,100
know, it's really nothing. 
It's really just real estate. 

1133
00:59:41,100 --> 00:59:44,200
I mean like the least Innovative
field imaginable very profitable

1134
00:59:44,200 --> 00:59:47,400
when done, right? 
Right or apparently not profit 

1135
00:59:47,400 --> 00:59:49,200
done in the way that we work 
today. 

1136
00:59:49,900 --> 00:59:53,500
But like with with Farrah knows 
what makes it so incredibly 

1137
00:59:53,500 --> 00:59:56,600
dangerous was the fact that it 
was dealing with something that 

1138
00:59:56,600 --> 00:59:59,400
it like branding is not, it 
can't be at the core of it. 

1139
00:59:59,400 --> 01:00:03,500
It needs to be truly driven by 
Scientific Revolution or 

1140
01:00:03,500 --> 01:00:07,200
progress and you know if it had 
been in a slightly different 

1141
01:00:07,200 --> 01:00:09,900
context if she had you know 
let's say has this meeting with 

1142
01:00:09,900 --> 01:00:12,600
the Laurie Metcalf professor and
then it's like well I'm still 

1143
01:00:12,600 --> 01:00:14,000
going to try it. 
I'm still going to try to build 

1144
01:00:14,000 --> 01:00:17,200
this thing and Then she gets 
seed funding and then it doesn't

1145
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:18,800
work out. 
Like the science isn't there? 

1146
01:00:18,800 --> 01:00:21,300
And the company dies, that's 
kind of how science goes. 

1147
01:00:21,300 --> 01:00:24,500
It's a research with Aaron, has 
the key piece of every good 

1148
01:00:24,500 --> 01:00:28,500
fraud story where she makes sort
of the small lie, right? 

1149
01:00:28,500 --> 01:00:31,100
She's like you're the type of 
person willing to lie. 

1150
01:00:31,100 --> 01:00:33,400
She does the small lie. 
It's like okay, we know the 

1151
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,800
machine works but we can't get 
it to work for the tracks. 

1152
01:00:35,800 --> 01:00:38,500
The green juice we're going to 
do well that's a different but 

1153
01:00:38,500 --> 01:00:43,200
she does the machine to us you 
know, she fakes that and then 

1154
01:00:43,200 --> 01:00:45,100
she fakes a little bit more and 
then they're in. 

1155
01:00:45,300 --> 01:00:48,400
She's in too deep and then. 
Okay we know the whole company 

1156
01:00:48,400 --> 01:00:51,500
is a fraud but you know that's 
that's what's going to fund the 

1157
01:00:51,500 --> 01:00:54,200
research and development and all
these, you know, you can sort of

1158
01:00:54,200 --> 01:00:58,600
see how the willingness to be to
make the small lie, sort of 

1159
01:00:58,600 --> 01:01:01,700
sets. 
You on this like rock rolling 

1160
01:01:01,700 --> 01:01:05,700
down a hill, Bernie Madoff. 
In a way that isn't true. 

1161
01:01:05,700 --> 01:01:09,400
I don't think with Travis and 
Adam like the the financial 

1162
01:01:09,400 --> 01:01:12,800
games were in the in the fight, 
you know? 

1163
01:01:12,800 --> 01:01:16,600
It was obvious to any investor 
Just like the amount of money 

1164
01:01:16,600 --> 01:01:18,500
they were losing to. 
I mean, to the extent that they 

1165
01:01:18,500 --> 01:01:21,200
were sort of hucksters on that 
sense. 

1166
01:01:21,200 --> 01:01:23,300
It was like, well, read the 
financials. 

1167
01:01:23,300 --> 01:01:26,800
I mean, reporters were openly 
mocking both companies as they 

1168
01:01:26,800 --> 01:01:29,300
were raising tons of money, 
right? 

1169
01:01:29,400 --> 01:01:32,600
Yeah, I mean, it's interesting, 
you know, talking to non-tech 

1170
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:34,700
people about these shows. 
I was talking to my younger 

1171
01:01:34,700 --> 01:01:39,300
brother and he really loves the 
we work show and, you know, the 

1172
01:01:39,300 --> 01:01:41,300
Thera, no show short. 
That's a clear story, everyone 

1173
01:01:41,300 --> 01:01:43,400
knows, but he was like, well, 
what would what exactly did Uber

1174
01:01:43,400 --> 01:01:46,000
do wrong? 
It was Like his question to me 

1175
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:48,000
and it's like well you know they
were kind of running the company

1176
01:01:48,000 --> 01:01:50,800
very controversially and there 
were a lot of scandals in the 

1177
01:01:50,800 --> 01:01:54,100
culture was awful but they were 
better kind of is right? 

1178
01:01:54,300 --> 01:01:57,900
Yeah, a big jerks. 
Here's your question. 

1179
01:01:57,900 --> 01:02:00,700
I don't know. 
And I don't even like, I don't 

1180
01:02:00,700 --> 01:02:02,600
I'm not going to question 
whether they were jerks. 

1181
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:07,800
I do not want to be canceled. 
There were I do think the fact 

1182
01:02:07,800 --> 01:02:10,600
that they were jerks honestly 
was the problem. 

1183
01:02:10,600 --> 01:02:13,500
The fact that Travis could never
really show Contrition for 

1184
01:02:13,500 --> 01:02:17,700
anything, just made it so that 
That the public hate of him just

1185
01:02:17,700 --> 01:02:21,200
grew hotter and hotter because 
he was never truly contrite, but

1186
01:02:21,200 --> 01:02:24,400
I guess a question about boober 
to me is like, you know, the 

1187
01:02:24,400 --> 01:02:26,700
Susan Valor thing, the cultural 
questions. 

1188
01:02:26,700 --> 01:02:31,000
Mike had a great piece on the 
culture, we definitely damned 

1189
01:02:31,000 --> 01:02:34,900
Uber in a certain sense, but I 
that but then sent in a post 

1190
01:02:34,900 --> 01:02:38,000
Trump era where people were very
worried about people. 

1191
01:02:38,000 --> 01:02:40,900
Let you know that was like post 
grab them by the pussy or 

1192
01:02:40,900 --> 01:02:41,900
whatever. 
You know, we were very worried 

1193
01:02:41,900 --> 01:02:44,200
about that. 
And then after Uber, we saw all 

1194
01:02:44,200 --> 01:02:49,000
these companies You know, get 
scrutiny over over the treatment

1195
01:02:49,000 --> 01:02:50,500
of women. 
I do think there's a question, 

1196
01:02:50,500 --> 01:02:54,900
whether Uber was sort of the 
first of what became sort of a 

1197
01:02:54,900 --> 01:02:58,400
parent at most many companies 
where women were poorly treated,

1198
01:02:58,600 --> 01:03:01,400
or I think people still 
associate boober with being 

1199
01:03:01,400 --> 01:03:04,200
disproportionately bad. 
And I do think it's hard to know

1200
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,200
first right? 
Was it just a case study because

1201
01:03:07,200 --> 01:03:11,300
he created all this Heap on his 
company, or was it actually 

1202
01:03:11,300 --> 01:03:14,600
worse than other companies? 
I think part of it too, is that 

1203
01:03:14,600 --> 01:03:18,700
it was Was Silicon Valley and 
that portion of the tech 

1204
01:03:18,700 --> 01:03:22,400
industry because like, I was so 
numb to that kind of behavior. 

1205
01:03:22,400 --> 01:03:25,300
When I got to San Francisco, I'd
been covering Wall Street. 

1206
01:03:25,400 --> 01:03:29,200
And so the idea of writing an 
expose of a large bank or a 

1207
01:03:29,207 --> 01:03:33,200
hedgehog thing, oh my God, these
guys are a holes would who would

1208
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:34,700
have cared? 
I mean, I guess I could have 

1209
01:03:34,700 --> 01:03:39,100
written a story about literally 
any Wall Street firm, but it 

1210
01:03:39,100 --> 01:03:42,000
wouldn't have mattered it only. 
I'm not going to say, only I 

1211
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,300
think it primarily mattered in 
Silicon Valley because The 

1212
01:03:45,300 --> 01:03:49,300
Public Image, think simple, 
large part to Google was that 

1213
01:03:49,300 --> 01:03:51,700
these guys are the good guys. 
They figured out a way to do 

1214
01:03:51,700 --> 01:03:55,200
business without being terrible.
And they figured out a way to do

1215
01:03:55,200 --> 01:03:57,600
business and still treat people 
fantastically. 

1216
01:03:57,800 --> 01:04:01,300
And so, when you saw the most 
successful of the cohort of that

1217
01:04:01,300 --> 01:04:03,100
era actually turn out to be 
jerks. 

1218
01:04:03,100 --> 01:04:06,500
Just like the guy is working at 
like oh gee, you know like 

1219
01:04:06,900 --> 01:04:10,200
Goldman Sachs or glute going 
back in time Solomon Brothers 

1220
01:04:10,200 --> 01:04:13,600
are going back in time like it 
doesn't matter like right, it 

1221
01:04:13,600 --> 01:04:19,200
felt different Because of the 
supposed culture, I cannot think

1222
01:04:19,200 --> 01:04:21,100
of another industry. 
Like if somebody wrote a story 

1223
01:04:21,100 --> 01:04:23,900
about how like, wow people at 
Pepsi or mean to one another, do

1224
01:04:23,900 --> 01:04:26,500
you think that would like blow 
the lid off like the consumer 

1225
01:04:26,500 --> 01:04:29,500
products industry? 
Yeah, probably not an older 

1226
01:04:29,500 --> 01:04:32,600
industry but and I think that 
was the real appeal of people 

1227
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:35,400
from Wall Street to come to 
Silicon Valley that you can come

1228
01:04:35,700 --> 01:04:38,500
be incredibly wealthy but also 
do it for these companies that 

1229
01:04:38,500 --> 01:04:41,500
exist solely for good, right? 
It's post you know, the 2008 

1230
01:04:41,500 --> 01:04:46,400
crash people were so rightfully 
cynical about You know, the 

1231
01:04:46,400 --> 01:04:48,800
missions of all of these 
companies that Silicon Valley 

1232
01:04:48,800 --> 01:04:53,000
was like, this very appealing, 
Clarion call to the Wall Street 

1233
01:04:53,000 --> 01:04:55,900
types to come here. 
I also think that Trump was 

1234
01:04:55,900 --> 01:04:59,400
elected and Democrats couldn't 
get rid of trump. 

1235
01:04:59,400 --> 01:05:02,300
There were no consequences in 
Silicon Valley companies are 

1236
01:05:02,300 --> 01:05:06,600
made up of mostly Democrats and 
then when they had these sort of

1237
01:05:06,700 --> 01:05:10,300
trumpy style leaders like 
Travis, they were able to 

1238
01:05:10,300 --> 01:05:13,100
actually show know, we can do 
something about this. 

1239
01:05:13,100 --> 01:05:16,100
Moral problem in our society, we
don't like, you know, the 

1240
01:05:16,100 --> 01:05:21,100
biggest public outcry against 
Uber, is delete ruber, which was

1241
01:05:21,100 --> 01:05:25,600
based on stupid under a stupid 
understanding of what actually 

1242
01:05:25,600 --> 01:05:27,400
happened. 
Was, totally misguided. 

1243
01:05:27,500 --> 01:05:30,500
I mean, it, I'm not saying the 
people's anti Uber feelings, 

1244
01:05:30,500 --> 01:05:32,000
were misguided. 
You know, those were based on 

1245
01:05:32,000 --> 01:05:35,600
many stories, but the specific 
like uber got rid of surge 

1246
01:05:35,600 --> 01:05:39,800
pricing, which was supposed to 
help them avoid controversy, but

1247
01:05:39,800 --> 01:05:43,100
then somehow that got position 
is if anyway, where the it 

1248
01:05:43,100 --> 01:05:45,500
doesn't matter re-litigating 
about YouTuber, but Basically, 

1249
01:05:45,500 --> 01:05:48,700
if there were people who were 
upset about a massive event that

1250
01:05:48,700 --> 01:05:51,100
they had no control over, which 
was the election. 

1251
01:05:51,800 --> 01:05:55,000
They were grasping for ways to 
take control of something. 

1252
01:05:55,000 --> 01:05:57,700
They saw as analogous is 
probably pretty astute, no 

1253
01:05:57,700 --> 01:06:00,200
matter how, no matter how they 
did it, whether the way they 

1254
01:06:00,200 --> 01:06:03,300
did, it was good or bad, whether
it was ham-fisted or whether it 

1255
01:06:03,300 --> 01:06:05,800
was really Deft. 
I think your point is 

1256
01:06:05,800 --> 01:06:08,800
interesting and probably correct
that they were like, we are just

1257
01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:12,800
trying to respond to this bigger
idea that something's not right?

1258
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,800
Right and maybe just to close 
off you know here with with the 

1259
01:06:16,800 --> 01:06:20,500
theranos show, I think what 
continues to make that story. 

1260
01:06:20,500 --> 01:06:24,900
So interesting is that I think 
it was and this gets maybe into 

1261
01:06:24,900 --> 01:06:27,200
the controversy or debate about 
whether or not. 

1262
01:06:27,200 --> 01:06:29,800
So you know theranos was a tech 
company is Silicon. 

1263
01:06:29,800 --> 01:06:33,000
Valley Product is that it 
existed so much through the 

1264
01:06:33,000 --> 01:06:36,400
Silicon Valley Playbook but only
seem to have adopted the worst 

1265
01:06:36,400 --> 01:06:40,800
aspects of what tech can stand 
for, which is just Sizzle. 

1266
01:06:41,000 --> 01:06:43,300
It's just branding, it's just 
raising more money. 

1267
01:06:43,400 --> 01:06:45,600
Money and it's just trying to 
get people excited about 

1268
01:06:45,600 --> 01:06:48,200
something that they have no real
reason to get excited for. 

1269
01:06:48,200 --> 01:06:51,700
And I think the best of tech has
those elements but also has a 

1270
01:06:51,700 --> 01:06:55,900
real product behind it. 
And you know, theranos is sort 

1271
01:06:55,900 --> 01:06:58,600
of everything about tech 
distilled to its most cynical 

1272
01:06:58,600 --> 01:07:01,000
ends. 
And in a way that legitimately 

1273
01:07:01,000 --> 01:07:06,200
harmed people and it's I never 
know the larger lesson. 

1274
01:07:06,200 --> 01:07:09,600
Well, the funny thing and what 
you're saying is that I feel 

1275
01:07:09,600 --> 01:07:13,300
like in the show Holmes, goes to
venture. 

1276
01:07:13,400 --> 01:07:17,600
Was and tries to pitch them, to 
join our business and they don't

1277
01:07:17,600 --> 01:07:20,100
like to some degree. 
It is like a validating moment 

1278
01:07:20,100 --> 01:07:24,400
in the show for Silicon Valley, 
but the show can't be. 

1279
01:07:24,500 --> 01:07:27,200
They just can't stand giving, 
like Finance types of wind, so 

1280
01:07:27,200 --> 01:07:30,400
they make the VCS like sexist 
about her and they almost make 

1281
01:07:30,400 --> 01:07:32,500
it seem dumb that they're not 
giving her their money. 

1282
01:07:32,500 --> 01:07:35,100
Even though it's a fraudulent 
business. 

1283
01:07:35,100 --> 01:07:39,000
It felt like I felt at the time.
Like by that's our, she felt. 

1284
01:07:39,000 --> 01:07:40,500
Yeah. 
On the cover of on the cover of 

1285
01:07:40,508 --> 01:07:43,200
Fortune, a lot of those DC's did
feel dumb for not. 

1286
01:07:43,300 --> 01:07:45,500
For not investing, right? 
Yeah, yeah. 

1287
01:07:45,500 --> 01:07:48,200
I think people should watch all 
three shows just because 

1288
01:07:48,300 --> 01:07:51,900
they're, they're interesting in 
their own right and that they 

1289
01:07:51,900 --> 01:07:54,200
each have like such a different 
view of it and if you listen to 

1290
01:07:54,200 --> 01:07:59,200
this podcast, you can like I 
feel like yeah, I don't know if 

1291
01:07:59,200 --> 01:08:01,700
you're not watching them, who is
the power going to write? 

1292
01:08:01,700 --> 01:08:04,300
Because they're not all on the 
same streaming service. 

1293
01:08:04,300 --> 01:08:07,600
Oh my God, right, so many now, 
Tom's using some of my, I'm 

1294
01:08:07,600 --> 01:08:09,600
using your Hulu. 
I am and I don't want to say the

1295
01:08:09,600 --> 01:08:14,000
rest for personal reasons. 
Let's It's a of the three 

1296
01:08:14,000 --> 01:08:15,800
streaming services that I watch 
TV shows on. 

1297
01:08:15,800 --> 01:08:20,399
I am paying for years All right,
all right. 

1298
01:08:20,399 --> 01:08:21,899
That's anyway. 
Yeah. 

1299
01:08:22,000 --> 01:08:23,300
All right. 
This was fun guys. 

1300
01:08:25,000 --> 01:08:36,300
Goodbye 
goodbye. 

1301
01:08:36,399 --> 01:08:37,700
Goodbye. 
Goodbye. 

1302
01:08:37,700 --> 01:08:40,000
Goodbye goodbye, goodbye. 
Goodbye.