1 00:00:06,000 --> 00:00:14,300 Welcome Sally. Hey everybody. 2 00:00:14,300 --> 00:00:16,700 Welcome to Dead cat. It's Tom dote on here. 3 00:00:16,700 --> 00:00:18,500 Hey everybody! Welcome to. 4 00:00:19,000 --> 00:00:21,100 Let's write that you want you on my low voice intro. 5 00:00:21,800 --> 00:00:25,400 I'm relaxed after a week off. So that's that's my unstressed 6 00:00:25,400 --> 00:00:28,500 voice. Its naturally higher, it's a 7 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:32,100 chill, it's a chill Alto. I have no grounds to criticize 8 00:00:32,100 --> 00:00:36,400 Tom's podcast voice given. I'm like, yeah, I'm saying, 9 00:00:36,400 --> 00:00:39,300 like, and sort of every other 10 seconds, I do my best. 10 00:00:39,700 --> 00:00:42,200 I don't think, I don't see many things, I just say it on a, 11 00:00:42,200 --> 00:00:44,600 maybe more soothing tone of you, and I don't voice too. 12 00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,900 Yeah, there are Millennial vocal fry but anyway, I am back after 13 00:00:47,900 --> 00:00:52,000 a week off Kitty and Eric had another episode in which they 14 00:00:52,000 --> 00:00:53,700 talked about things that I really should have been 15 00:00:53,700 --> 00:00:57,100 participating in but I wasn't there. 16 00:00:57,400 --> 00:00:59,400 It's the most frustrating episodes for me. 17 00:00:59,400 --> 00:01:01,000 I don't mind. Being on the show but at least 18 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:02,500 talk about things. I don't give a shit about, I 19 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:05,099 give you credit, you know, literal stories, I've written 20 00:01:05,200 --> 00:01:08,400 the murder most successful story I've ever had, by the way, in 21 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,900 terms of readership and it was very interesting to see how it 22 00:01:11,900 --> 00:01:13,900 played out because the story came out, this was a story I 23 00:01:13,908 --> 00:01:19,100 wrote in 2015 or 16 or something and it was about a murder that 24 00:01:19,100 --> 00:01:24,000 happened in Arkansas and the police subpoenaed an Amazon Echo 25 00:01:24,000 --> 00:01:27,100 to see if there was any evidence on there to prove that the guy, 26 00:01:27,400 --> 00:01:29,300 you know, murdered the person in his hot tub. 27 00:01:29,700 --> 00:01:32,000 So The story came out like Christmas the day after 28 00:01:32,000 --> 00:01:35,900 Christmas and every news Outlet picked up on it and every TV 29 00:01:35,900 --> 00:01:38,500 show picked up on, like Morning News show picked up that's real 30 00:01:38,500 --> 00:01:41,300 power, but none of them gave him the Today Show or something. 31 00:01:41,300 --> 00:01:44,700 So I came at it, that's, that's it each and they hold out there. 32 00:01:44,700 --> 00:01:47,200 You know, like oh here is, you know, Carolyn our Tech reporter 33 00:01:47,200 --> 00:01:50,400 and it's like this bucket like seven year old woman and she's 34 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,500 got like an echo next to her and she's like talking about like 35 00:01:53,500 --> 00:01:57,200 that's her prop to explain this thing zero credit given. 36 00:01:57,200 --> 00:01:59,400 That's okay, it's fine. I did, I did, I did do some 37 00:01:59,400 --> 00:02:01,400 radio. Is actually a hilariously 38 00:02:01,400 --> 00:02:02,900 enough. One of the radio interviews I 39 00:02:02,908 --> 00:02:06,000 did about the story. I had set an alarm on my echo 40 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,600 for unrelated reasons, and it went off in the middle of the 41 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,000 interview and it sounded like use like snooping on me. 42 00:02:12,100 --> 00:02:14,500 Yeah that works. Well yeah. 43 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:16,900 Anyway anyway, we're not going to rehash all that. 44 00:02:16,900 --> 00:02:20,000 Yeah but good episode. I recommend everyone listen to 45 00:02:20,008 --> 00:02:22,300 this. Listen we're cross promoting our 46 00:02:22,300 --> 00:02:24,100 own episodes, it's like go back to the pack. 47 00:02:24,100 --> 00:02:26,600 Have some people, there's some good stuff in there, you know? 48 00:02:26,600 --> 00:02:29,500 We probably tuned out when they saw it wasn't in the episode. 49 00:02:29,500 --> 00:02:32,700 They're Like oh Humphrey one. You know how it goes sometimes. 50 00:02:33,000 --> 00:02:36,200 Anyway, I missed out on a lot. I feel like while I was gone, 51 00:02:36,200 --> 00:02:39,600 the new cycle was insane. I think it really specially 52 00:02:39,600 --> 00:02:42,900 insane, this last week in financial world, if you'll so 53 00:02:42,900 --> 00:02:46,900 slow the markets up, the markets up, but the story is still that. 54 00:02:46,900 --> 00:02:48,700 It's the end of the world. So how do you write that? 55 00:02:48,700 --> 00:02:52,400 Like I'm like stuck. It's up like 15%. 56 00:02:52,500 --> 00:02:54,800 Yeah, I guess that in a much shorter than Mark anyway. 57 00:02:54,800 --> 00:02:58,400 Sorry, I know you think about broader societal things but I 58 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:01,400 just wanted to complain. How do you write the story of 59 00:03:01,400 --> 00:03:04,400 the downturn during? I mean I think it's a dead cat 60 00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,700 bounce. But like that's that's basically 61 00:03:06,700 --> 00:03:09,800 why I said I my most recent news letter that the stock market 62 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:12,600 rebounds, you know, on the way down, but it's very hard for 63 00:03:12,600 --> 00:03:14,900 narrative purposes because everybody gets excited. 64 00:03:14,900 --> 00:03:16,700 When I say the new cycle was insane. 65 00:03:16,700 --> 00:03:20,500 I probably would just reacting to like surprising earnings from 66 00:03:20,500 --> 00:03:22,900 a couple of companies that I pay attention to and then the Trump 67 00:03:22,900 --> 00:03:25,800 shit, and then, you know, the Trump FBI stuff. 68 00:03:26,500 --> 00:03:29,200 The thing that was crossing, crossing my mind while I was on 69 00:03:29,200 --> 00:03:32,400 vacation, which also, by the way, I told you guys where we 70 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:35,300 can from the episode was like an ongoing jokes pretending. 71 00:03:35,300 --> 00:03:39,000 This was like is it a secret? Or it was a social media secret, 72 00:03:39,000 --> 00:03:41,800 that's what you're getting to. Yeah, it's so easy to media 73 00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:44,100 media secret. They only gave they gave a 74 00:03:44,108 --> 00:03:47,400 guidance about social media. Was there a guy dressed about 75 00:03:47,600 --> 00:03:50,200 your podcast? Is that count as social that 76 00:03:50,200 --> 00:03:52,800 we've been very specific to me? They were very, very general. 77 00:03:52,800 --> 00:03:55,400 I went to my brother's wedding, I can say that and we were in a 78 00:03:55,400 --> 00:03:56,800 destination. Well, I'll just say and then 79 00:03:56,800 --> 00:03:59,700 seven can bleep it out which would be funny, but I was in a 80 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:08,000 Then and we should, we redact, we redact serious information at 81 00:04:08,000 --> 00:04:12,500 this anyway, so I was there and there was a social media 82 00:04:12,500 --> 00:04:15,300 blackout on my brother's wedding, but if your first was, 83 00:04:15,300 --> 00:04:17,899 my wife is. But a mere Schools teacher, no 84 00:04:17,899 --> 00:04:20,600 sir, right? But it was for personal reasons, 85 00:04:20,600 --> 00:04:22,400 but it did sort of make me think, as I was in this 86 00:04:22,400 --> 00:04:25,400 beautiful location, you know, gotta do something like the 87 00:04:25,400 --> 00:04:29,400 brain turns towards. How could I leverage the 88 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:30,400 location? That I'm at. 89 00:04:30,400 --> 00:04:32,700 And I was like, well I guess I can post it be real. 90 00:04:33,700 --> 00:04:37,900 That one seems acceptable in most situations you so just you 91 00:04:37,900 --> 00:04:42,300 think be real, doesn't count as social media in this context 92 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:48,000 because it's a smaller Circle. I yeah, I think for the specific 93 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:50,900 reasons that I needed to have a social media blackout, be real, 94 00:04:50,900 --> 00:04:55,800 would not have violated any of those concerns and so and 95 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:57,100 because I felt like I needed to do it. 96 00:04:57,100 --> 00:04:59,300 So then I decided post to be real, then I was like, look, I'm 97 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:03,000 sitting down You know, on the beach looking at palm trees and 98 00:05:03,000 --> 00:05:05,400 like a did you post has blue lagoon? 99 00:05:05,400 --> 00:05:08,000 I did eventually. Yeah, it's a might be real from 100 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:10,800 a couple of nights ago. You don't even I don't think of 101 00:05:10,800 --> 00:05:14,500 you as a social media person that would have like, such 102 00:05:14,500 --> 00:05:17,800 withdrawals that you would feel the need to find some Outlet. 103 00:05:17,800 --> 00:05:21,500 It's just a thing that your mind wanders, too, when you're bored, 104 00:05:21,600 --> 00:05:23,400 right? I mean, at some points, you're 105 00:05:23,400 --> 00:05:26,500 just like, well, I'm not reading right now and I'm not on 106 00:05:26,500 --> 00:05:28,300 Twitter. So what else do I do? 107 00:05:28,300 --> 00:05:29,600 And I'm like, oh, I guess I could. 108 00:05:29,900 --> 00:05:35,900 Create content it's not working posted like literally every meal 109 00:05:35,900 --> 00:05:39,400 that I ate in Italy to my stories while I was there 110 00:05:39,500 --> 00:05:40,600 Instagram. Yeah. 111 00:05:40,700 --> 00:05:43,500 Yeah right. So and I'm off Instagram. 112 00:05:43,500 --> 00:05:46,400 I am on Tick-Tock Again by the way I have downloaded techshop. 113 00:05:47,300 --> 00:05:49,300 We can talk about that too. I have I have lots of thoughts 114 00:05:49,300 --> 00:05:51,700 about Tick-Tock but anyway so I posted it. 115 00:05:51,700 --> 00:05:53,800 I was going to post to be real and I was like no this is too 116 00:05:53,800 --> 00:05:56,900 nice for be real because it seems to me the point of this 117 00:05:56,900 --> 00:06:02,600 app is to expose the Danity of your life it's because it's 118 00:06:02,600 --> 00:06:05,400 supposed to be in the moment. You don't want it to look good A 119 00:06:05,407 --> 00:06:08,000 lot of it is just like oh, it's me in an Uber with me from 120 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:10,700 people who don't have be real, you know, it's sort of at a 121 00:06:10,700 --> 00:06:13,100 certain time of day. They say take a picture 122 00:06:13,100 --> 00:06:16,100 immediately and you take it sort of forward and backwards. 123 00:06:16,100 --> 00:06:18,900 So you get sort of where you're sitting and what you're looking 124 00:06:18,900 --> 00:06:21,600 at Short of very real. There's been a lot of hysterical 125 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:26,600 reporting recently this worried that people are posting 126 00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:28,900 corporate secrets to their be real because they're just 127 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:31,100 sitting in front of their work. A computer when this happens and 128 00:06:31,100 --> 00:06:34,800 they they put their McKinsey slides or whatever out there for 129 00:06:34,800 --> 00:06:37,400 I mean that probably has happened right, you know scary 130 00:06:37,400 --> 00:06:40,900 stories about yeah, I mean, yeah, but yeah people have 131 00:06:40,900 --> 00:06:44,000 decided that it is the app does your and I saw the information 132 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:48,100 or some Outlet had growth rate figures or her I wrote about 133 00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:51,000 this company before anyone was paying I've scooped the seed and 134 00:06:51,000 --> 00:06:53,600 series a round of this company. Anyway, who's our best friend 135 00:06:53,800 --> 00:06:57,700 that's like a tick for me. My tick is like bringing out my 136 00:06:57,700 --> 00:07:00,400 scoop that was clear in the Emil interview to it was We're 137 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:02,800 talking about these huge stakes and I'm like, scoop that was a 138 00:07:02,808 --> 00:07:04,100 scoop of mine. I believe. 139 00:07:04,700 --> 00:07:06,800 Anyway sorry that's that's not unique to you though. 140 00:07:07,000 --> 00:07:08,800 That's a that's a specific order. 141 00:07:08,900 --> 00:07:11,400 It's a rewarder problem, it's disease but it's good. 142 00:07:11,400 --> 00:07:14,200 I mean that's you know, it's our, I don't know it's part of 143 00:07:14,207 --> 00:07:16,200 what we're solid anyway. What were you asking me? 144 00:07:16,400 --> 00:07:20,100 So be real people. Its growth is big now and it's 145 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:22,600 valued at like, what is it 600 million or something? 146 00:07:22,700 --> 00:07:26,700 It's like a large purse. Anyway, I decided not to post it 147 00:07:26,700 --> 00:07:29,500 because I felt like it was a violation of the spirit of the 148 00:07:29,800 --> 00:07:32,300 Which is things needle. Look boring, right? 149 00:07:32,300 --> 00:07:34,900 The point of it is to show people that there is, you know, 150 00:07:34,900 --> 00:07:38,000 between the highlights on Instagram or whatever the fuck, 151 00:07:38,600 --> 00:07:40,100 you know, really. You're not doing anything 152 00:07:40,100 --> 00:07:43,000 interesting and you're living meaning of life, I was watching 153 00:07:43,000 --> 00:07:46,600 a tick, tock the other day about be real, which really speaks to 154 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,200 sort of the media environment, where in, but I think you told 155 00:07:49,200 --> 00:07:51,800 me about that and that maybe feeds into what I've been 156 00:07:51,800 --> 00:07:55,800 thinking about since then, which is that the next social media 157 00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:59,200 Trend piece, like the a head from The Wall Street Journal is 158 00:07:59,200 --> 00:08:01,900 going to be That Sensation that I felt, which is that. 159 00:08:01,900 --> 00:08:04,400 Oh, my life is too interesting for be real. 160 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:08,100 I shouldn't post it there, but that is also the app of the day 161 00:08:08,500 --> 00:08:11,900 that you need to be posting on and so people influencers, which 162 00:08:11,900 --> 00:08:14,300 have spent the last five or so years, you know, glowing up 163 00:08:14,300 --> 00:08:17,200 their lives to make it interesting to people in a like 164 00:08:17,200 --> 00:08:21,100 celebrity standpoint are now going to have to dumb it down 165 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:23,900 and like dull it so that they can fit, you know, the 166 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:27,200 expectations of be real. And I think there are going to 167 00:08:27,200 --> 00:08:32,799 be like reality, Since right on unfollow all the hot people, you 168 00:08:32,799 --> 00:08:34,299 know. Like if you're single and 169 00:08:34,299 --> 00:08:35,799 dating, you can't have all these people. 170 00:08:35,799 --> 00:08:38,299 You're trying to woo because all of a sudden it's going to 171 00:08:38,299 --> 00:08:41,100 corrupt your be real. That was sort of that was The 172 00:08:41,100 --> 00:08:42,600 Tick Tock version of what you're saying. 173 00:08:42,600 --> 00:08:46,200 But yeah, that whether it's building a following or whether 174 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,500 it's sort of caring too much about who's following you and 175 00:08:49,500 --> 00:08:53,100 trying to sell yourself to them, it's sort of ruins. 176 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:55,400 You know. It's not the days when it was 177 00:08:55,400 --> 00:08:57,700 just be real seed investors you know. 178 00:08:57,700 --> 00:09:01,100 Now it's you have to care what Think o, but The Tick-Tock was 179 00:09:01,100 --> 00:09:03,700 trying to say like you will make your be reels better if you 180 00:09:03,700 --> 00:09:07,800 spend less time paying attention to celebrities, we're know just 181 00:09:07,800 --> 00:09:11,100 like if there are people like, if there are boys that you want 182 00:09:11,100 --> 00:09:15,100 to be pursuing you then it's going to cause you to like 183 00:09:15,100 --> 00:09:17,800 really care about your be real presentation. 184 00:09:18,100 --> 00:09:21,700 Is there going to be consuming them and sort of just like I 185 00:09:21,700 --> 00:09:28,300 mean just you know depending on the audience whatever what the 186 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,600 pendulum is going to switch. This happens during recessions. 187 00:09:31,600 --> 00:09:34,600 I find. Right, like, displays of immense 188 00:09:34,600 --> 00:09:38,000 wealth or out of fashion, and I remember, like, after 2008. 189 00:09:38,000 --> 00:09:39,600 There were all these stories about how, like, all these 190 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:43,000 Bankers didn't want to, like, wear expensive watches or have 191 00:09:43,000 --> 00:09:47,000 nice suits because everyone was mad at the finance industry for 192 00:09:47,000 --> 00:09:49,500 fucking everything up. But also, like still being rich, 193 00:09:49,500 --> 00:09:52,700 while people were being evicted from their homes and I think if 194 00:09:52,700 --> 00:09:55,500 we do enter a recession, people are going to call it, you know, 195 00:09:55,500 --> 00:09:59,700 you know, Instagram fabulous lives are out and be real. 196 00:10:00,000 --> 00:10:04,000 You know, media ality is in and that but yeah we've already got 197 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,100 like this shitty selfie and you know, yeah I think that I think 198 00:10:07,100 --> 00:10:09,000 that's the trend right now, right? 199 00:10:09,100 --> 00:10:11,300 But the thing is that influencers you know they exist 200 00:10:11,300 --> 00:10:15,200 solely on top of these social media platforms as their 201 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,200 business and so they're going to have to adapt for be real and 202 00:10:18,200 --> 00:10:20,900 they can't be what they have done in the last couple of 203 00:10:20,900 --> 00:10:23,500 years. Again, gonna be real, I can't, 204 00:10:23,500 --> 00:10:24,900 well, literally they cannot write. 205 00:10:24,900 --> 00:10:27,900 I mean, I don't think, you know, given Google that was hysterical 206 00:10:27,900 --> 00:10:29,600 thing with the with the cardassians were there. 207 00:10:29,800 --> 00:10:33,100 Like Instagram is supposed to be for your friends, you know. 208 00:10:33,100 --> 00:10:35,900 And we are yeah, like, what friend? 209 00:10:37,500 --> 00:10:40,800 Yeah, do it. This will this will happen. 210 00:10:40,800 --> 00:10:43,200 Mark my words I probably I should just write this story. 211 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:47,000 I'm moving to a new beat which would allow for these kinds of 212 00:10:47,000 --> 00:10:49,100 pieces but someone's going to do it. 213 00:10:49,100 --> 00:10:50,900 And this is what we're going to be living in to the next, but 214 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:56,500 you need a word. If you like chuji, okay, Woody 215 00:10:56,500 --> 00:11:00,800 Allen consultant the word for for what I'm just saying the 216 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:03,100 best friend. Stories have a clear word, the 217 00:11:03,100 --> 00:11:05,600 vibe shift. Yeah, I feel like people have, 218 00:11:06,200 --> 00:11:10,200 you know, used abused that phrase like ever since it came 219 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:12,200 out. Everything is like part of the 220 00:11:12,200 --> 00:11:14,900 vibe shift even though nobody knows what we're shifting to. 221 00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:16,200 Yeah. That definitely ran. 222 00:11:16,200 --> 00:11:21,100 Its course, The Vibes I mean Vibe is a concept was funny to 223 00:11:21,100 --> 00:11:24,700 me at first generally is like it's inexplicable and it 224 00:11:24,700 --> 00:11:27,600 describes people who are just sort of out of touch but seem to 225 00:11:27,600 --> 00:11:30,000 be having a good time. But the vibes Shift. 226 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,500 And they was like that. Famous, New York Magazine story 227 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:35,800 that like pushed it, and everyone was so excited about 228 00:11:35,800 --> 00:11:38,300 that record came from. I think that was the vibe shift, 229 00:11:38,300 --> 00:11:41,100 five shift came from there, but everyone loved it and I never 230 00:11:41,100 --> 00:11:44,800 liked it was supposed to be this, like, agreed-upon Concepts 231 00:11:44,800 --> 00:11:46,800 that everyone is like, oh yeah, no one can describe what we know 232 00:11:46,800 --> 00:11:48,400 it's something and that's really funny. 233 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:51,900 I'm like, yeah, but fine, but that's not a great piece than if 234 00:11:51,908 --> 00:11:53,400 no one it does. Right grab anything. 235 00:11:53,400 --> 00:11:56,600 That's why it's been so abused because everywhere I can use it 236 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:59,200 for anything. And, and now it's to the point 237 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:01,700 where, you know, Like old editors just know that it's 238 00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:05,000 like, a catchy thing that will get people to sort of engage 239 00:12:05,000 --> 00:12:07,500 with the, this story, which is probably why. 240 00:12:07,500 --> 00:12:10,500 It'll it'll be like, in the nut graph of the, a head about the 241 00:12:10,500 --> 00:12:14,100 be real, you know, the rise of be real reality Consultants, 242 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:16,700 because the editors will be like, oh, what's this Vibe shift 243 00:12:16,700 --> 00:12:20,000 up in here, right? Exact that, at least agree that 244 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:21,500 you won't be writing the cool story. 245 00:12:21,500 --> 00:12:25,000 If you say Vibe, shift. I mean, I wanted to, I don't 246 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:27,400 know if there's a tangent or not we can we don't have to go into 247 00:12:27,400 --> 00:12:29,600 this. But are you following the hole? 248 00:12:29,700 --> 00:12:33,200 Like dime Square issue? No, tell me about. 249 00:12:33,200 --> 00:12:35,400 I saw the headline or the tweets, but I didn't click on 250 00:12:35,400 --> 00:12:37,700 the article. What I mean was Times Square, is 251 00:12:37,700 --> 00:12:43,400 like a sub. It's like a very Niche part of 252 00:12:43,400 --> 00:12:46,600 New York. I think it's associated with the 253 00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:50,400 Red Scare podcast. There was this, like, I think a 254 00:12:50,400 --> 00:12:53,700 dime Square newspaper, that Ben Smith wrote about, if you 255 00:12:53,700 --> 00:12:55,700 remember that, there was a whole back-and-forth there. 256 00:12:56,400 --> 00:12:59,100 I mean, there's some crazy sub Stacks that I've read. 257 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:04,800 Going through like all this like leftist arthouse drama I think 258 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:07,300 affiliated with diamond Square. They're all these podcasts, 259 00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:10,900 their podcast way more popular than ours about this like fake 260 00:13:10,900 --> 00:13:15,400 made up small community. Okay so that that's going on. 261 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:17,600 I mean why is it called Times Square? 262 00:13:17,600 --> 00:13:19,800 Is it because it's full of hot people or know. 263 00:13:19,800 --> 00:13:22,700 I think a dime because I think it's like a I think it's a 264 00:13:22,708 --> 00:13:26,600 geographic it's like a ripoff of I think it's like Lower 265 00:13:26,600 --> 00:13:29,600 Manhattan and it's like a sort of times. 266 00:13:29,700 --> 00:13:31,500 Square. Like but it's you know this is a 267 00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:33,400 shitty part of town. So it's Times Square. 268 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:36,800 I think like I think it's like our immediate neighborhood and 269 00:13:36,800 --> 00:13:39,600 it but yeah. So and then Taylor Lorenz, 270 00:13:39,800 --> 00:13:44,100 tailored Lorenz sort of observed, you know, this is this 271 00:13:44,100 --> 00:13:47,200 is all fake, you know, the media is just interested in like 272 00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:51,800 talking about people adjacent to itself and blah blah blah blah 273 00:13:52,300 --> 00:13:55,600 which is obviously true. But I think if anything what's 274 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,600 been weird about this time, is it used to be that like Elite me 275 00:13:59,800 --> 00:14:03,500 You could just like, I don't know, whip out The Fad or say, 276 00:14:03,500 --> 00:14:06,200 like this is happening now, and then it was like a fun thing, 277 00:14:06,400 --> 00:14:08,100 and that's what the vibe shift was. 278 00:14:08,300 --> 00:14:11,500 But the problem was that given that there isn't sort of the 279 00:14:11,500 --> 00:14:15,000 same command and control sort of media environment. 280 00:14:15,000 --> 00:14:18,700 They couldn't really dictate it. So, they just sort of said, it 281 00:14:18,700 --> 00:14:21,100 seems like something's changing people want. 282 00:14:21,100 --> 00:14:24,900 I think what was happening, this is my view, I think people want 283 00:14:24,900 --> 00:14:29,100 sort of to be told that like the culture is moving here, like 284 00:14:29,100 --> 00:14:31,200 here's the new. A cool thing like that, people 285 00:14:31,200 --> 00:14:35,200 are fatigued of this period where there is no, you know, 286 00:14:35,200 --> 00:14:38,900 we're just consuming all all old, you know, the 90s, the 287 00:14:38,900 --> 00:14:41,000 eighth, you know, everybody's consuming all the old content so 288 00:14:41,008 --> 00:14:44,000 there's nothing like they've feels of this time. 289 00:14:44,200 --> 00:14:47,100 People want sort of somebody to say this is what it's all about. 290 00:14:47,100 --> 00:14:50,400 These are the characters were obsessed with it aren't, you 291 00:14:50,400 --> 00:14:53,600 know, Donald Trump and so that's like this whole like that's like 292 00:14:53,600 --> 00:14:56,900 the dime squares and stuff, but the media I feel like 293 00:14:56,900 --> 00:14:59,600 everything's been so I don't know, but time. 294 00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:01,900 It seems like it's just a pure abstraction, right? 295 00:15:01,900 --> 00:15:07,000 Like it's a commentary on the lack of an identifiable Trend by 296 00:15:07,400 --> 00:15:10,300 claiming something exists. That doesn't really other than 297 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:13,100 for the fact that people are making fun of the fact that it 298 00:15:13,108 --> 00:15:14,400 doesn't exist. Right. 299 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:16,500 I mean is that that sort of the witches exist because people 300 00:15:16,500 --> 00:15:19,000 start writing about in creating content around it and then 301 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:22,100 people get invested in, you know, it's like professional 302 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:24,200 wrestling or something. I mean it's like we went to the 303 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:28,500 no, you weren't there, I went to a party with who's the one who 304 00:15:28,500 --> 00:15:31,000 sells snake oil care? Align Callaway or whatever. 305 00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:33,200 Like I feel like she's you don't follow her. 306 00:15:33,200 --> 00:15:37,200 This is Caroline Calloway. She like, I think she wrote a 307 00:15:37,200 --> 00:15:40,500 book called like scammer, you know, she's like a famous like 308 00:15:40,500 --> 00:15:41,800 minor scam. You know. 309 00:15:41,800 --> 00:15:43,400 She's anyway. Okay. 310 00:15:43,500 --> 00:15:45,300 Well yeah, they're all these characters. 311 00:15:45,400 --> 00:15:50,000 I mean, I feel like in social media world right now, you know, 312 00:15:50,000 --> 00:15:54,200 you, you know, who is the most? Like, I feel like a phenomenon 313 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,900 on my Tick Tock while we're just observing social media. 314 00:15:57,800 --> 00:16:01,900 Is that I see the reaction to the trend before I see the 315 00:16:01,900 --> 00:16:04,200 trend. Do you experience this all the 316 00:16:04,200 --> 00:16:05,800 time? Because the reaction is much 317 00:16:05,800 --> 00:16:08,700 larger than the trend and because we're yeah, we is, were 318 00:16:08,700 --> 00:16:11,500 in the demographic of reaction. I think it's both that. 319 00:16:12,100 --> 00:16:16,200 But who is your Tick-Tock reacting to right now? 320 00:16:16,600 --> 00:16:19,400 Well I'm bad. I'm a bad taste test case here 321 00:16:19,400 --> 00:16:23,000 because I'm so new to tick tock and I think the app is still 322 00:16:23,000 --> 00:16:27,000 trying to figure out who the fuck I am and so like it's full 323 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,800 of Is Andrew Tate on your radar? No, I don't know what 324 00:16:30,800 --> 00:16:32,500 characters. Oh my God. 325 00:16:32,500 --> 00:16:35,900 This is coming. He's, it's like a terrible 326 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:41,900 terrible men's rights guy, but literally Andrew Tate was on a 327 00:16:41,900 --> 00:16:45,300 podcast and that pot has immediate like just had Elon 328 00:16:45,300 --> 00:16:47,500 Musk on or is going to after this. 329 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,400 And Andrew Tate has been on like, he was honestly, like, 330 00:16:51,400 --> 00:16:54,100 it's like a Steven Crowder time. I don't know. 331 00:16:54,100 --> 00:16:57,200 He's like, he's bad. I mean it's like but it's just 332 00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,500 like Like, you know, it's like the game, you know, it's like 333 00:17:00,500 --> 00:17:03,100 any of these sort of like, pickup artist sort of things 334 00:17:03,100 --> 00:17:07,800 like on steroids, and I think all these content creators just 335 00:17:07,800 --> 00:17:09,700 like, it is, you know, something to Pivot off of. 336 00:17:09,700 --> 00:17:13,300 It's just like another. I don't know what it is, it's 337 00:17:13,300 --> 00:17:17,700 deeply troubling. But if he's eyeing present, he's 338 00:17:17,700 --> 00:17:22,400 omnipresent like, I mean, it's just like, yeah, it's yeah. 339 00:17:22,500 --> 00:17:26,200 And people just seized on whatever the storyline is to 340 00:17:26,200 --> 00:17:30,100 build a universe out of Well, so, but back to the dime Square 341 00:17:30,100 --> 00:17:32,900 thing. I mean, the idea that people are 342 00:17:33,300 --> 00:17:36,000 claiming that something exists that doesn't really exist. 343 00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:38,800 But keep writing about it enough that they could eventually will 344 00:17:38,800 --> 00:17:41,300 it into existence or have enough people follow it. 345 00:17:41,500 --> 00:17:44,100 That it seems like a real entity, it's not like it's a 346 00:17:44,100 --> 00:17:47,700 pretty small jump between that and Q and on to me, right? 347 00:17:47,700 --> 00:17:49,900 Like I've always viewed the coming down through exist. 348 00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:53,100 Like there are people who are like in the circle or whatever 349 00:17:53,100 --> 00:17:57,000 like it's just like 30 people are so, you know, I don't know. 350 00:17:57,900 --> 00:18:01,300 Yeah, well, I mean, I guess you could say there are some 351 00:18:01,300 --> 00:18:04,800 elements of Q and A but Jeffrey Epstein and that sort of stuff 352 00:18:04,800 --> 00:18:08,200 that like exists, you know, to say that there are people like 353 00:18:08,200 --> 00:18:11,300 Elites in the world that do things that are gross. 354 00:18:11,700 --> 00:18:14,000 And there is like far more of that than people are willing to 355 00:18:14,008 --> 00:18:16,100 accept. But I'm just talking about the 356 00:18:16,100 --> 00:18:19,900 larger mass of people that is find the concept interesting and 357 00:18:19,900 --> 00:18:22,500 decide to claim it exists because it gives them 358 00:18:22,500 --> 00:18:24,600 entertainment. Basically the same. 359 00:18:24,700 --> 00:18:27,800 It's hard to distinguish between the people who are genuine Is 360 00:18:28,100 --> 00:18:30,400 and the ones who just like are entertained by it. 361 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:33,800 And ultimately it doesn't really matter if it would put that I 362 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:35,200 think this is what you're saying. 363 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:38,700 There's an argument that some of the media obsession over q and 364 00:18:38,700 --> 00:18:43,100 on was because the media wants to be able to criticize Trump 365 00:18:43,100 --> 00:18:45,100 people for being total. Loony Bin's. 366 00:18:45,100 --> 00:18:48,100 So it's like, okay, we're going to underline this. 367 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:49,900 I mean, I don't actually agree with this view. 368 00:18:49,900 --> 00:18:53,600 I think you and on was pretty sizable like a big, a big 369 00:18:53,600 --> 00:18:56,800 contingent of the Trump. Ace believed in it came up a 370 00:18:56,808 --> 00:18:58,500 lot. Dime Square. 371 00:18:58,700 --> 00:19:02,000 I don't think we're ever going to see, you know, a day where I 372 00:19:02,008 --> 00:19:05,100 don't know, Democratic Party politics are, I mean, that's the 373 00:19:05,100 --> 00:19:08,400 thing, the dime Square world, the Red Scare world of anything. 374 00:19:08,400 --> 00:19:11,500 Like, part of the trend is like, flirtation with the right 375 00:19:11,500 --> 00:19:14,900 despite professing to be like, you know, communist, you know, 376 00:19:14,900 --> 00:19:17,600 that's sort of any way that it's a right. 377 00:19:17,600 --> 00:19:21,000 And you're gonna go down that road, and there's obviously a 378 00:19:21,000 --> 00:19:23,200 distinction between Democratic Party politics and like the 379 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,100 leftist podcast world. But back to The Tick-Tock 380 00:19:26,200 --> 00:19:31,700 because I did reach It because I am now covering YouTube and it 381 00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:35,300 would seem like I'm just not doing my job if I'm not aware of 382 00:19:35,600 --> 00:19:37,400 the be because basically take do it. 383 00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:40,600 Can we have Sirens going off your like chain beat change 384 00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,700 older? I think I said changing, so you 385 00:19:42,708 --> 00:19:45,700 can and I'm in a transition was covering like labor and Uber and 386 00:19:45,700 --> 00:19:48,500 now what Google and YouTube. I mean, usually YouTube. 387 00:19:48,600 --> 00:19:50,100 Yeah, I mean YouTube is part of Google. 388 00:19:50,100 --> 00:19:53,500 But yeah, Google with an I just learned that with alphabet or 389 00:19:53,500 --> 00:19:56,300 just, just Google. I think it's Google with a focus 390 00:19:56,300 --> 00:19:59,500 on YouTube but it's Owing to be Google corporate Politics as 391 00:19:59,500 --> 00:20:01,600 well. But yeah, I mean basically 392 00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:07,000 Tick-Tock and its user and it's you know ux has completely 393 00:20:07,000 --> 00:20:09,900 upended. All social media companies. 394 00:20:09,900 --> 00:20:12,000 It's the only thing. Everyone's scrambling to copy 395 00:20:12,000 --> 00:20:13,200 that even YouTube. Which you would think. 396 00:20:13,200 --> 00:20:17,000 Is this like unmovable unchangeable bhima that I saw 397 00:20:17,000 --> 00:20:21,100 there was like a Pew study that says 95 percent of teens are 398 00:20:21,100 --> 00:20:24,000 using YouTube. So like dwarfing every other 399 00:20:24,000 --> 00:20:28,000 platform you know, YouTube remains right on Have Mark 400 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:30,900 Bergen hon of Bloomberg. Who has a book coming out? 401 00:20:30,900 --> 00:20:33,300 Yes it's a like comment subscribe. 402 00:20:33,300 --> 00:20:36,000 I believe we are hotly anticipated by the dead cat 403 00:20:36,000 --> 00:20:38,100 show. Yeah. 404 00:20:38,100 --> 00:20:41,800 Now what will go deep on YouTube when Bergen is on but but yeah 405 00:20:41,800 --> 00:20:45,200 so I had to download Tick-Tock and you know, they ask me 406 00:20:45,500 --> 00:20:47,800 generally, you know, because you when you first he's been too 407 00:20:47,800 --> 00:20:49,200 long for you but you don't remember. 408 00:20:49,200 --> 00:20:50,900 But can you first go on? They ask you like generally, 409 00:20:50,900 --> 00:20:53,400 what are you into? So I can just populate the feed 410 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:57,100 with something and then I guess over time they like refine it to 411 00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:58,500 make it. Even more addictive. 412 00:20:58,700 --> 00:21:02,400 And at first, the stuff that they kept showing me was like 413 00:21:02,400 --> 00:21:06,200 prank videos, but it would be like, but it was like 414 00:21:06,200 --> 00:21:10,100 life-affirming prank videos. So it would be like a guy going 415 00:21:10,100 --> 00:21:12,800 up to someone at an inn and out and being like, Hey, man, can I 416 00:21:12,808 --> 00:21:15,200 have three dollars to buy a burger and then if he gives 417 00:21:15,200 --> 00:21:17,300 them, you know, like five dollars right here? 418 00:21:17,300 --> 00:21:22,100 Like, it'll be like, it'll be like, hey, how much was your 419 00:21:22,100 --> 00:21:23,200 meal for your you and your friend? 420 00:21:23,200 --> 00:21:26,300 And he's like, oh man, it's like $18 is like, here's 20 bucks a 421 00:21:26,308 --> 00:21:31,300 nice guy. - where is your beasts guy famous, just like, instead 422 00:21:31,300 --> 00:21:35,100 of using the money that he would use on marketing using the money 423 00:21:35,100 --> 00:21:38,600 to just like, give to people and using that to generate interest, 424 00:21:38,700 --> 00:21:40,300 right? If he's like the most popular 425 00:21:40,300 --> 00:21:43,300 Creator on YouTube, so he has a large budget where the guys were 426 00:21:43,300 --> 00:21:46,900 just like at stake talk. So I can spend $20 or something 427 00:21:46,900 --> 00:21:49,700 on this, but I've been getting a lot of those at first. 428 00:21:49,700 --> 00:21:51,700 I think that just there's a universal human. 429 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:54,700 I get the, these Tick-Tock guys go up to somebody. 430 00:21:54,700 --> 00:21:57,300 It's like, do you want $2 or do you want me to do? 431 00:21:57,500 --> 00:21:59,800 Owen give $4 to the next person. I've seen that one. 432 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:01,000 Yeah. They like a costume. 433 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:03,400 People at the mall. I don't like those and then I've 434 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:05,700 got a lot of like soldiers surprising their family by 435 00:22:05,700 --> 00:22:07,200 coming home V. Basically, I'm getting like 436 00:22:07,200 --> 00:22:11,600 Midwestern Christian, mom Tick-Tock which is very strange 437 00:22:11,600 --> 00:22:14,400 for me. It has moved away from that 438 00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:17,300 eventually, but it was funny to see, like the algorithm being 439 00:22:17,300 --> 00:22:19,200 like, who the hell is this guy now? 440 00:22:19,200 --> 00:22:23,600 It's a lot of DIY projects. You know, people like unyielding 441 00:22:23,600 --> 00:22:25,500 were Tick-Tock. Tick-Tock Tick-Tock Tick-Tock 442 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,400 Tick-Tock but you don't think YouTube YouTube. 443 00:22:27,500 --> 00:22:29,000 There's to me. But my problem with YouTube is 444 00:22:29,000 --> 00:22:33,100 it's just, I feel like it's, it's just really over index is 445 00:22:33,100 --> 00:22:37,100 on whatever you watch. Like it's all like MacBook tips 446 00:22:37,600 --> 00:22:43,500 chess and like video game sort of suggestion stuff, donkey and 447 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:46,500 particular, do you ever go through and delete your history 448 00:22:46,500 --> 00:22:49,500 to like force the algorithm to re know find you? 449 00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:51,400 That's interesting. Oh I do that all the time. 450 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:54,300 I just get annoyed because what happens is I'll do it and it 451 00:22:54,300 --> 00:22:57,800 keeps eventually getting back to the right thing for Me which is 452 00:22:57,800 --> 00:23:01,000 like old David Letterman Clips or something or like nor 453 00:23:01,000 --> 00:23:04,200 McDonald over and over again? I don't know if you can do that 454 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:06,700 with Tick-Tock though like force the algorithm to forget. 455 00:23:06,700 --> 00:23:10,400 You like redefine who you are. But what I've noticed with 456 00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,700 Tick-Tock and I think probably is part of the reason it's so 457 00:23:13,700 --> 00:23:16,200 addictive. Is it does change itself up a 458 00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:18,300 little bit? Oh yeah, I think in different 459 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:21,200 sessions on be like, oh, forget forget all that shit about like, 460 00:23:21,400 --> 00:23:25,300 whatever workout videos, like let's move to, you know, like 461 00:23:25,300 --> 00:23:29,000 leather building things out of It seems like Tick Tock could 462 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:31,000 figure out very quickly, though, the diet's over. 463 00:23:31,000 --> 00:23:33,000 Now we're fantasizing. I like pizza. 464 00:23:33,000 --> 00:23:37,800 You know, I like it is very responsive to whatever that that 465 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:39,200 shift is. Yeah. 466 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:42,100 Well, I when Katie's on next to, I'll have to ask her about 467 00:23:42,100 --> 00:23:44,800 because she said, she got a lot of cooking Tick-Tock videos. 468 00:23:44,800 --> 00:23:48,100 Like she would get a lot of people making shit on there and 469 00:23:48,100 --> 00:23:51,200 all the food videos on Tick, Tock are gross to me. 470 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:55,000 It's just like people rapping spaghetti and like, burger meat 471 00:23:55,000 --> 00:23:56,900 and I mean, it's been written about. 472 00:23:56,900 --> 00:24:00,300 But, you know, Oh, there are these accounts where the gimmick 473 00:24:00,300 --> 00:24:03,600 is, they just make the food terribly in a sort of 474 00:24:03,600 --> 00:24:08,200 unappealing way and like, it's a total engagement hack just to 475 00:24:08,200 --> 00:24:10,900 get people to like, be like, why are you doing this? 476 00:24:11,300 --> 00:24:14,400 And, you know, it's just it's like we're doing it because you 477 00:24:14,400 --> 00:24:17,800 flip out and like, people hate it and that's that is what's 478 00:24:17,800 --> 00:24:21,500 disturbing about social media where it's just I feel like some 479 00:24:21,500 --> 00:24:23,200 human should come in and be like this. 480 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:27,300 This isn't good for anybody. Like this is just objective. 481 00:24:27,500 --> 00:24:29,300 Bad. Anyone who would like to spend 482 00:24:29,300 --> 00:24:32,300 their time. Like, if they would just stop 483 00:24:32,300 --> 00:24:34,400 watching these, if somebody could be like, you know, this is 484 00:24:34,400 --> 00:24:36,800 like bullshit, right? It's just meant to make you 485 00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,000 angry. Like, I don't know, that's where 486 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,100 social media gets. So black, especially strange, 487 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:43,800 with cooking stuff, because it could be useful, right? 488 00:24:43,800 --> 00:24:46,100 Like, it could be like a cooking tip. 489 00:24:46,400 --> 00:24:48,800 You could apply, start off, may be reasonable and then they 490 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:51,200 doing something. They just, it's hard to tell 491 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:53,800 which it is though. Like I saw one the other day 492 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,900 where someone had like taken like a rib eye steak and put it 493 00:24:56,900 --> 00:25:00,400 inside a Watermelon. And then put the watermelon on 494 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:04,500 the grill, to see, I'm sure this is just gonna drive you and say, 495 00:25:04,500 --> 00:25:06,600 well, he was just like, Bool during like, I hate you. 496 00:25:06,700 --> 00:25:09,000 That's like, exactly wasn't gross or anything. 497 00:25:09,000 --> 00:25:10,600 It was just like, what the fuck is this? 498 00:25:10,600 --> 00:25:14,400 Like, yeah, I guess you could do that but it's been living in my 499 00:25:14,400 --> 00:25:16,700 head since then. So I guess like it was effective 500 00:25:16,700 --> 00:25:19,400 as far as that goes, right? It's a strange app. 501 00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:22,800 It's and I guess the thing I want to ask you because you and 502 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:26,600 Katie are addicted to it. Do you feel fulfilled after you 503 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:28,900 watch a lot of sex, You feel like oh, I've just gotten some 504 00:25:28,900 --> 00:25:33,100 solid entertainment here, I do find it a very, it's a very 505 00:25:33,100 --> 00:25:37,500 enjoyable, you know, I do think it delivers like dopamine hits 506 00:25:37,500 --> 00:25:41,200 pretty regularly. I also, it does surface like, 507 00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,100 you know, philosophy tick-tocks and stuff. 508 00:25:44,100 --> 00:25:48,800 So sometimes I I find myself like quoting back various like 509 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:53,800 aphorisms and like summations of different thinkers and how did 510 00:25:53,800 --> 00:25:55,500 you get to them in? A lot of a seed, has a core, 511 00:25:55,500 --> 00:25:58,000 whatever. Dziedzic like this, Jack David? 512 00:25:58,200 --> 00:26:00,100 Yeah, yeah. Okay, that's good. 513 00:26:00,100 --> 00:26:02,000 He's entry like him on. They're doing it or people just 514 00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:06,200 quoting him, both him, him doing it, and then people sort of 515 00:26:06,500 --> 00:26:09,200 interpret it. Okay, well, that's been on 516 00:26:09,200 --> 00:26:12,300 YouTube to, I know, like Contra points was like, a very popular 517 00:26:12,700 --> 00:26:15,700 YouTube account of, like, the kind of a leftist trans, right? 518 00:26:15,700 --> 00:26:18,500 And I'll get all these philosophers traps, you know, 519 00:26:19,100 --> 00:26:22,100 apparently there's no Bridge content on Tick-Tock because it 520 00:26:22,100 --> 00:26:25,600 hasn't found me. Well, that could be you gah, 521 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,600 there's an audience for that. Sure, well they don't have 522 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,400 Tick-Tock. I mean it's like if the mail it 523 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,600 to their house, I guess the reason I asked though is that 524 00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:37,500 every like Tick-Tock session that I've had which yet like 525 00:26:37,500 --> 00:26:39,600 it's rising like I said yesterday I was on it for like 526 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:41,900 one point two hours which is disgusting. 527 00:26:42,400 --> 00:26:45,300 I don't feel good afterwards. I think I just feel like it's 528 00:26:45,300 --> 00:26:48,700 pure empty calories and it's not like, you know, Facebook or 529 00:26:48,700 --> 00:26:51,800 Instagram or YouTube or like full nourishment, but there's a 530 00:26:51,808 --> 00:26:54,600 unique emptiness from my Tick Tock experiences that. 531 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:59,600 I'm just like the bare minimum of entertainment To me that I 532 00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:02,500 turn it off at some point because I'm just like, you know, 533 00:27:02,500 --> 00:27:07,100 like I feel like a glutton and I'm just, like, full of bad food 534 00:27:07,400 --> 00:27:09,300 that I gorged on. It's always funny when you get a 535 00:27:09,300 --> 00:27:12,100 tick tock this like, basically, trying to convince you, they 536 00:27:12,500 --> 00:27:14,900 Tick Tock. He's like terrible or like there 537 00:27:14,900 --> 00:27:18,900 was some like passage from like my Dinner with Andre or 538 00:27:18,900 --> 00:27:22,100 something. That's at the time that movie 539 00:27:22,100 --> 00:27:27,200 comes out very cynical of sort of, our consumptive world. 540 00:27:27,900 --> 00:27:32,300 Sort of information consumptive world and like imagine that sort 541 00:27:32,300 --> 00:27:34,600 of in the context of tick-tock I do. 542 00:27:34,600 --> 00:27:37,500 It's yeah. But I'm like oh my God I got 543 00:27:37,500 --> 00:27:41,300 like an interesting you know I was just like it's good at like 544 00:27:41,300 --> 00:27:43,500 giving you a lot of like what's going on in the world. 545 00:27:43,500 --> 00:27:45,800 Like I don't know more satisfying than Twitter at all. 546 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,100 When you say going on in the world, do you mean like what are 547 00:27:48,100 --> 00:27:50,000 the things that people are into on Tick-Tock? 548 00:27:50,000 --> 00:27:50,600 Right? Right. 549 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,200 Well, that yeah. What are the trends? 550 00:27:52,300 --> 00:27:55,900 Yeah, you're way more in touch with your fellow humans from 551 00:27:55,900 --> 00:27:57,200 that. I feel like well yeah. 552 00:27:57,300 --> 00:27:58,600 Yes. Certainly, I mean, it's 553 00:27:58,600 --> 00:28:01,600 obviously not your friends and maybe more than Twitter because 554 00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:04,300 that does optimizes towards journalists and making you 555 00:28:04,300 --> 00:28:05,900 angry, which Tick-Tock doesn't really. 556 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:07,700 It seems like. I like the app couldn't be 557 00:28:07,700 --> 00:28:09,100 successful. If it's just about making you 558 00:28:09,100 --> 00:28:10,500 mad in the way. No does. 559 00:28:10,700 --> 00:28:13,300 Yeah. We'll see what happens as time 560 00:28:13,300 --> 00:28:16,100 goes on. But at the current moment, I'm 561 00:28:16,100 --> 00:28:19,500 at with it, it's just like, I guess I just the bare minimum of 562 00:28:19,500 --> 00:28:23,200 entertainment for me, but because the interaction with it 563 00:28:23,200 --> 00:28:25,900 is so addictive. It's just the swipe and you can 564 00:28:25,900 --> 00:28:29,200 do it so many times that if Doesn't meet that blow low bar, 565 00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:33,000 you can move on to the next one like that and of itself is as 566 00:28:33,000 --> 00:28:35,300 much a part of the experience that like the content. 567 00:28:35,500 --> 00:28:36,900 It's definitely bad for your brain. 568 00:28:37,200 --> 00:28:39,500 You know what has to be? It has so bad. 569 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,500 Yeah, I definitely feel bad after I've been on it in a way 570 00:28:42,500 --> 00:28:45,100 that I did not with with social, you know, other social media 571 00:28:45,100 --> 00:28:47,900 platforms. Anyway, did you want to move on 572 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:51,700 to be Lon at all Ilan? Which part of it? 573 00:28:51,700 --> 00:28:53,700 Well, that was another thing that happened while I was out 574 00:28:53,700 --> 00:28:57,200 that he is apparently sold like several billion dollars. 575 00:28:57,300 --> 00:29:01,900 Hours worth of his stock in anticipation of losing his, what 576 00:29:02,100 --> 00:29:04,500 his conscience. He said he wasn't selling, then 577 00:29:04,500 --> 00:29:09,400 he sells, you know it's just I don't know is his followers or 578 00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:12,900 the ultimate suckers, you know. I don't know what to say beyond 579 00:29:12,900 --> 00:29:16,600 that it's hysterical. I really have no ambiguity. 580 00:29:16,600 --> 00:29:20,600 Like, I don't know how I mean, it's amazing. 581 00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:24,400 I mean that it seems like this whole Twitter thing existed as a 582 00:29:24,408 --> 00:29:28,700 pretext to let him sell at like the For a Time, definitely, but 583 00:29:28,700 --> 00:29:30,200 he's already lost that Gambit, right? 584 00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,500 Because the stock is down so much from when he initially. 585 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:35,400 But then in the off, rebound it for a while. 586 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,200 I mean it's a has it. Yeah. 587 00:29:37,200 --> 00:29:38,500 Okay. But it's still down 588 00:29:38,500 --> 00:29:42,400 significantly from its peak it's down but it surged. 589 00:29:42,600 --> 00:29:44,300 Yeah. Well but here's my question for 590 00:29:44,300 --> 00:29:48,400 the the Elan you know fanatic sick offense is that I got to 591 00:29:48,400 --> 00:29:51,500 think part of the appeal with him is that he keeps wriggling 592 00:29:51,500 --> 00:29:53,900 out of shit because that is remarkable, right? 593 00:29:53,900 --> 00:29:57,200 It's like he can call someone a pedophile for no reason. 594 00:29:57,400 --> 00:30:00,300 Get sued for it and win or he can claim. 595 00:30:00,300 --> 00:30:03,600 He's going to take Tesla private, the SEC filed a suit 596 00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:05,100 against him, and the nothing really happens. 597 00:30:05,100 --> 00:30:07,900 Other than a slap on the wrists, and that's cool. 598 00:30:07,900 --> 00:30:10,300 Like, I get that, I get that, like, in the age of trump and 599 00:30:10,300 --> 00:30:13,900 like, no, you no consequences for people being outlandish, 600 00:30:13,900 --> 00:30:15,500 like, Elon is one of the best at it. 601 00:30:15,500 --> 00:30:18,300 Consequences are coming. This is we're finally getting 602 00:30:18,300 --> 00:30:20,900 their Trump, they're searching his house Ilan. 603 00:30:20,900 --> 00:30:23,400 They're going to make him buy Twitter, like maybe like 604 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:25,100 Twitter. Like, that's the ultimate 605 00:30:25,100 --> 00:30:27,100 consequence. It just takes a couple years of 606 00:30:27,100 --> 00:30:31,800 a Craddock Administration and the the party that's you know 607 00:30:31,800 --> 00:30:34,600 allegedly rioting in the streets, brings back Law and 608 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:36,200 Order. I like that would be you know, 609 00:30:36,800 --> 00:30:38,800 another Vindication for the Democrats. 610 00:30:38,800 --> 00:30:40,700 But yeah. I mean I can't make that 611 00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:42,500 argument. You could make that argument. 612 00:30:42,500 --> 00:30:44,800 I am making that. That is a sincere argument. 613 00:30:44,800 --> 00:30:45,900 Yeah. Yeah. 614 00:30:45,900 --> 00:30:49,000 Is that, like, look, if we like a year from now, Elon is like 615 00:30:49,000 --> 00:30:52,000 owning Twitter and just tanking it and drop. 616 00:30:52,000 --> 00:30:53,400 I do love. I do love the D. 617 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:56,200 We I mean the conservatives love to go crazy. 618 00:30:56,200 --> 00:30:59,400 It's like the Crap. Don't even want him to have 619 00:30:59,400 --> 00:31:03,000 Twitter, but now they desperately want to force him to 620 00:31:03,000 --> 00:31:06,000 have Twitter but I'm like, that's a totally coherent, like 621 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,400 logical story. Like I can that makes total 622 00:31:09,400 --> 00:31:14,400 sense to me that I would prefer to punish Ilan for following 623 00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:18,900 through on his agreement. Then saved Twitter to be like I 624 00:31:18,908 --> 00:31:20,600 mean just burn it down, you know. 625 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:21,800 Yeah. I mean there's not even like a 626 00:31:21,800 --> 00:31:25,600 politicization yet really with like, by owning Twitter, like 627 00:31:25,600 --> 00:31:28,900 it's just like he signed a fucking Tracked that says he 628 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:31,900 needs to own it but it is funny to see, politicians. 629 00:31:31,900 --> 00:31:34,600 You know, they were trying to like Curry favor with Ilan. 630 00:31:34,600 --> 00:31:36,700 They're like, oh, he's a, he's a free agent right now. 631 00:31:36,700 --> 00:31:39,500 Like we could draft him. We know he basically said he's 632 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:41,400 going to support DeSantis. Yeah. 633 00:31:41,400 --> 00:31:42,700 Oh, did he go? Because I know we said he 634 00:31:42,700 --> 00:31:47,000 wouldn't support Trump. He is signaled to Santa support, 635 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,700 but I'm talking more about like, the, you know, attorney general 636 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:54,300 in Texas, filing a suit against twittering because of, you know, 637 00:31:54,300 --> 00:31:57,700 unjust not disclosing their but levels, you know, To me was like 638 00:31:57,700 --> 00:32:00,500 a clear, like, oh, we can show him that like, we can, you know, 639 00:32:00,500 --> 00:32:04,800 like, the the Texas legal system is on his side. 640 00:32:04,800 --> 00:32:06,300 Yeah. Join us. 641 00:32:06,300 --> 00:32:08,500 How are people not disturbed by this? 642 00:32:08,500 --> 00:32:09,500 Yeah, exactly. Right. 643 00:32:09,500 --> 00:32:11,100 So, that was like, a clear move in that direction. 644 00:32:11,100 --> 00:32:13,800 But then I'm saying, so, like, a year from now, Elon is owning 645 00:32:13,800 --> 00:32:17,500 Twitter. And Trump is like, in prison for 646 00:32:17,500 --> 00:32:19,600 Espionage. Well, you probably just be on 647 00:32:19,600 --> 00:32:21,000 trial or something. Yeah. 648 00:32:21,200 --> 00:32:22,500 Okay. But like, he's actually charged 649 00:32:22,500 --> 00:32:26,000 in a serious way and like, I mean, it wouldn't be a bad move 650 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,200 by democrats, to claim like this. 651 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:31,000 Is the system functioning again at rice is, what happens? 652 00:32:31,600 --> 00:32:34,400 Normally, you know, when we go out first couple crypto frauds, 653 00:32:34,400 --> 00:32:36,600 you know, I mean, they're, they're investigating like 654 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:39,400 coinbase. I mean, it is insane. 655 00:32:39,400 --> 00:32:42,900 How slow it all is. And the functionaries have been 656 00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:45,700 there the whole time. But the crypto thing is weird 657 00:32:45,700 --> 00:32:48,500 though, right? Like it doesn't seem like either 658 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:51,900 party is trying to make like being for or against it. 659 00:32:51,900 --> 00:32:55,500 A core aspect of their platform right now, right now I'm worried 660 00:32:55,500 --> 00:32:58,300 that people are going to get bought out by But I mean there's 661 00:32:58,500 --> 00:33:03,500 you know Sam bingman freed is donating a ton of money and they 662 00:33:03,500 --> 00:33:08,300 all want it to be regulated by the Commodities future trading 663 00:33:08,300 --> 00:33:12,300 commission instead of the SEC, which is just like Bonkers. 664 00:33:12,500 --> 00:33:16,600 I mean, it's just like, so it won't fall under all the SEC 665 00:33:16,600 --> 00:33:19,300 rules because we're going to treat it as something totally 666 00:33:19,300 --> 00:33:21,800 different. I mean, it's it's like an insane 667 00:33:21,800 --> 00:33:25,300 work around, but I do worry that it's the classic case where 668 00:33:25,300 --> 00:33:27,000 there were the people who support. 669 00:33:27,300 --> 00:33:31,500 Thing are such diehards that there isn't the same energy on 670 00:33:31,500 --> 00:33:33,200 the opposite. Like what am I going to spend my 671 00:33:33,200 --> 00:33:37,300 life arguing that Bitcoin can't be, you know, regulate it should 672 00:33:37,300 --> 00:33:39,800 be regulated by the SEC. What is the politicians getting 673 00:33:39,800 --> 00:33:42,000 bought out by the crypto world? Look like them? 674 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,900 It's just donors. There's like a bill. 675 00:33:43,900 --> 00:33:46,600 There's a bill. I forget. 676 00:33:46,600 --> 00:33:48,900 It's like, it's weird. It's like the agriculture 677 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:51,800 chairs. I forget but there's a key Bill. 678 00:33:51,800 --> 00:33:55,700 Its, that's been position. That's very Pro crypto. 679 00:33:55,800 --> 00:33:57,700 Uh-huh. So basically just the Passage of 680 00:33:57,700 --> 00:34:00,600 that bill if that if that's somehow gonna be a boondoggle, 681 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,000 be insane. Yeah, yeah. 682 00:34:02,000 --> 00:34:05,400 I'm because we've already passed the point of like, you know, the 683 00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:07,500 individual coins. You know, like suddenly 684 00:34:07,500 --> 00:34:10,800 Elizabeth Warren's, like I'm doing a warrant coin or a very 685 00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:14,000 coin and like, you know that she's been bought out or 686 00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:16,500 something like that. Period has passed already to be 687 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:19,000 clear. Elizabeth Warren has in no way 688 00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:21,300 done that and no, no. But I'm saying that would be the 689 00:34:21,300 --> 00:34:23,500 ultimate like that would be the shirt victory for crypto is 690 00:34:23,500 --> 00:34:24,600 that? Yeah, he is. 691 00:34:25,100 --> 00:34:29,400 That would be quite the Bailey. Coin Ico would be the end of any 692 00:34:29,400 --> 00:34:32,500 sort of like, you know, Federal Regulation of u.s. space. 693 00:34:32,500 --> 00:34:34,600 Anything. Always with Warren is extremely 694 00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:36,699 hostile to that. Yeah. 695 00:34:36,900 --> 00:34:38,900 But that period has passed. So, yeah, I guess it would have 696 00:34:38,900 --> 00:34:42,800 to be legislation, which is very hard to do like that. 697 00:34:42,800 --> 00:34:44,500 You know. No one can pass any legislation. 698 00:34:44,800 --> 00:34:48,600 Now, whoa, we've had tons but yeah, sure. 699 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:50,500 Yeah, sure. I mean, it everything currents 700 00:34:50,500 --> 00:34:54,000 like a Herculean effort and not sort of like oh yeah. 701 00:34:54,000 --> 00:34:56,800 We'll just try something and we can always pass the different 702 00:34:56,800 --> 00:34:59,300 bill or Whatever. Yeah, the dates Cinema would be 703 00:34:59,300 --> 00:35:02,700 pretty easy to take. I feel like, you know, given 704 00:35:02,700 --> 00:35:06,100 that she came out in favor of the carried interest loophole, 705 00:35:06,100 --> 00:35:08,800 which is still one of the craziest things for someone to 706 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:13,800 like later career alive for newcomer is proudly in favor of 707 00:35:14,300 --> 00:35:18,300 carried interest exemption kill. I'm Brian not in favor but 708 00:35:18,400 --> 00:35:21,700 definitely I think my financial interest would seem to be in 709 00:35:21,700 --> 00:35:25,500 favor you know like I feel like I should have had a subscription 710 00:35:25,500 --> 00:35:28,700 drive when that got repealed. Be like oh you thought you were 711 00:35:28,700 --> 00:35:31,600 going to lose like millions of dollars a year? 712 00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:35,400 Because of this you can spend $150 on media like yeah. 713 00:35:35,800 --> 00:35:38,600 But it's the opposite of a special offer it was just like I 714 00:35:38,600 --> 00:35:41,200 just found out that your net worths are going to be protected 715 00:35:41,200 --> 00:35:43,700 exactly for the foreseeable future. 716 00:35:43,700 --> 00:35:47,200 Subscribe, your passive income is fucking guaranteed during 717 00:35:47,200 --> 00:35:49,400 jacking up the price. You should have done that Frank. 718 00:35:49,400 --> 00:35:52,000 Yeah. Was there a Sam bacon? 719 00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:54,800 Free tweet storm. Yeah, to between threads so it's 720 00:35:54,800 --> 00:35:57,500 fascinating. Yeah, I'm just trying Sighing. 721 00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:03,200 Okay, he tweeted this on Sunday, the financial circle jerk, then 722 00:36:03,200 --> 00:36:06,500 it makes it clear. This is not Financial advice and 723 00:36:06,500 --> 00:36:10,100 missing lots of nuance. He says, in the last year, meta, 724 00:36:10,100 --> 00:36:13,400 has around 100 billion dollars in Revenue, that it makes him 725 00:36:13,400 --> 00:36:16,600 selling ads. And it's like who buys Those 726 00:36:16,600 --> 00:36:19,300 ads. Uber, Sofia firm, Robin Hood, 727 00:36:19,300 --> 00:36:21,800 coinbase Jordache. I mean, it's basically making 728 00:36:21,800 --> 00:36:26,900 this argument that VC, money, you know, flows into Facebook, 729 00:36:26,900 --> 00:36:31,100 that makes Facebook more valuable than then. 730 00:36:31,200 --> 00:36:34,100 I feel like the big leap of this argument, is that, then the 731 00:36:34,100 --> 00:36:38,600 money coming out of Facebook, effectively makes the VCS richer 732 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:41,800 allowing them to invest in startups again. 733 00:36:41,800 --> 00:36:44,900 So, this is a very 2014 fighting arguing, we use. 734 00:36:45,100 --> 00:36:47,800 Be obsessed with this because there are app install ads, 735 00:36:47,800 --> 00:36:50,100 right? And so the idea was by startups 736 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:52,900 that were all VC funded. And so it was just indirect VC 737 00:36:52,900 --> 00:36:55,700 money flowing into Facebook, but then it basically then all the 738 00:36:55,707 --> 00:36:58,500 Brand's figured out. I mean, the death of like, what 739 00:36:58,500 --> 00:37:02,200 someone called, I don't know, Casper and stuff, Warby Parker. 740 00:37:02,200 --> 00:37:04,300 I mean those companies, they're both are still our own death, 741 00:37:04,300 --> 00:37:07,600 they're still around but like that they're not like huge sexy 742 00:37:07,600 --> 00:37:10,900 companies anymore is because yeah, other e-commerce other 743 00:37:10,900 --> 00:37:14,600 brands figured out how to advertise on Facebook and so the 744 00:37:14,600 --> 00:37:16,800 ads As weren't underpriced anymore. 745 00:37:16,800 --> 00:37:19,500 You know, basically startups just didn't have exclusive 746 00:37:19,500 --> 00:37:21,700 access to Facebook ad. So this is feels like an 747 00:37:21,700 --> 00:37:24,900 extremely dated. Yeah, argument. 748 00:37:24,900 --> 00:37:26,300 Yeah. It's like he's just catching up 749 00:37:26,300 --> 00:37:29,500 on the thing that like you said, we were freaking out about in 750 00:37:29,500 --> 00:37:34,500 2014 15 when Facebook, you know, was basically a lever that push 751 00:37:34,500 --> 00:37:37,500 people towards different mobile apps by targeting people in 752 00:37:37,500 --> 00:37:40,500 their timeline. And yeah, it did not take down 753 00:37:40,500 --> 00:37:43,200 Facebook even though a ton of those direct to Consumer 754 00:37:43,200 --> 00:37:46,800 companies did collapse because Is they have a huge fucking base 755 00:37:46,800 --> 00:37:50,400 of advertisers, like it's just, it's just more complicated than 756 00:37:50,400 --> 00:37:52,000 that. They have like small businesses 757 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,400 all over the world advertising on their they have like 758 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:56,900 multibillion-dollar even like when there was like the ad 759 00:37:56,900 --> 00:37:59,300 boycott against Facebook at the height of like Cambridge 760 00:37:59,300 --> 00:38:02,700 analytical and like a ton of big Brands pulled their advertising 761 00:38:02,700 --> 00:38:05,700 for a month from them. It didn't affect their earnings 762 00:38:05,700 --> 00:38:07,700 at all. So anyone who's like arguing 763 00:38:07,700 --> 00:38:11,400 that they're like you know, Sterling Cooper and their entire 764 00:38:11,400 --> 00:38:14,900 Revenue stream is based on Lucky Strike that's just not true. 765 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,800 Or Facebook. So I would not that's pretty 766 00:38:17,800 --> 00:38:21,200 disappointing from the boy Genius of the crypto world. 767 00:38:21,200 --> 00:38:24,900 And somebody was just like I ever I mean I think this was a 768 00:38:24,900 --> 00:38:29,100 common reaction on Twitter but just like I'm not the posi your 769 00:38:29,100 --> 00:38:32,100 the Ponzi, you know, it just felt like an extreme sort of 770 00:38:32,100 --> 00:38:36,100 deflection from you know, a business that is often accused 771 00:38:36,100 --> 00:38:39,100 of like Facebook people were saying that no, no, I'm saying 772 00:38:39,100 --> 00:38:42,700 that like crypto world like this and Bank Note, 3 ft x world 773 00:38:42,700 --> 00:38:46,600 right is dependent, you know, a deeply Actor world where the 774 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:49,600 value of one thing props up, you know, they all crash together. 775 00:38:49,600 --> 00:38:51,900 You know, it's not like these, it's not like we had a Bitcoin 776 00:38:51,900 --> 00:38:55,200 crash, and aetherium crash to, you know, they're all they're 777 00:38:55,200 --> 00:38:58,800 very correlated right now. So that there is death. 778 00:38:58,800 --> 00:39:03,200 There is Ponzi economics all over over crypto world. 779 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,300 So then it does feel a little bit like absurd to make it seem 780 00:39:07,300 --> 00:39:11,800 like it's a Facebook issue. Well, the mistake he made was 781 00:39:11,800 --> 00:39:14,900 focusing on Facebook I think like they're just too big of a 782 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,000 Any, if you did it for SNAP, for example, that could feel a 783 00:39:19,008 --> 00:39:21,500 little bit more true, right? And like their you know their 784 00:39:21,500 --> 00:39:25,200 business did kind of collapse during a quarter because there 785 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:29,000 was a downturn in like a specific type of Advertiser, let 786 00:39:29,000 --> 00:39:30,900 that like those ones like app install ads. 787 00:39:31,000 --> 00:39:33,200 And so I mean it's not a sexy argument to make like you're not 788 00:39:33,200 --> 00:39:36,100 going to go viral by saying, like Snap is not a very safe 789 00:39:36,100 --> 00:39:38,100 company because too much of their at, you know, Revenue 790 00:39:38,100 --> 00:39:42,700 comes from app install ads from precarious startups, but they 791 00:39:42,700 --> 00:39:44,900 going after Facebook was just, that was dumb like that. 792 00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:48,400 I don't know, to tell you dude, on some level, I'm sympathetic 793 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:52,700 to what he's trying to say. People clearly underestimate how 794 00:39:52,700 --> 00:39:55,800 interconnected everything is and valuations, are I mean, that's 795 00:39:55,800 --> 00:40:00,100 why, when the bear Market comes, It Feels So sudden everything 796 00:40:00,100 --> 00:40:04,400 evaporates it once because it's like, you know, your Revenue, 797 00:40:04,700 --> 00:40:07,400 you know, was my investment doll for this from you know, my 798 00:40:07,400 --> 00:40:10,600 investment dollars, your evaluation was propping up 799 00:40:10,600 --> 00:40:14,100 startup valuations, you know, there is a level of 800 00:40:14,100 --> 00:40:15,900 interconnected. Dennis to it. 801 00:40:15,900 --> 00:40:18,800 All in Facebook is one of the most, you know, the largest 802 00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,900 companies in the world and is sort of essential to part of the 803 00:40:22,900 --> 00:40:27,000 ecosystem, but feels super misguided in that Facebook. 804 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:31,000 I mean, and one last thing that Sam doesn't ring up is of 805 00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,400 course, Zuckerberg is a huge investor and iconic and other 806 00:40:35,400 --> 00:40:38,800 firms, probably and those firms than prop up the startup world, 807 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:40,000 but I just don't agree with this. 808 00:40:40,000 --> 00:40:42,500 Like, the VC funds are just like getting their money. 809 00:40:42,500 --> 00:40:44,900 First of all, he, I think he said that face. 810 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:48,500 It was paying off dividends and that shareholders which is not 811 00:40:48,500 --> 00:40:48,900 true. Right? 812 00:40:48,900 --> 00:40:51,700 That's not true. So it's like Facebook's increase 813 00:40:51,700 --> 00:40:55,000 in value made, you know, Vanguard wealthy and then 814 00:40:55,000 --> 00:40:59,700 Vanguard cells some of that and is like an LP or like more 815 00:40:59,700 --> 00:41:01,300 accurately, like the Harvard endowment. 816 00:41:01,300 --> 00:41:02,900 So some sure is and becomes an LP. 817 00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:05,900 I mean, there's a, there's a truth to it but it just like, I 818 00:41:05,900 --> 00:41:09,800 don't know. I mean, just moving from, it's 819 00:41:09,800 --> 00:41:12,700 like a claim about how much you Zuma, but I don't know. 820 00:41:12,700 --> 00:41:14,200 Is the world bigger is the world small? 821 00:41:14,200 --> 00:41:16,800 It's like you can see See it both ways and we all cycle 822 00:41:16,800 --> 00:41:20,100 through like saying the world is very small in the world is huge, 823 00:41:20,100 --> 00:41:23,300 you know, right? Yeah but I guess what I don't 824 00:41:23,500 --> 00:41:25,900 would it seems like we're all kind of waiting around for to a 825 00:41:25,908 --> 00:41:29,600 degree is like we know that there is going to be some sort 826 00:41:29,600 --> 00:41:32,600 of downturn Tesla to implode. That's right. 827 00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,200 That's right. That's the thing we want to 828 00:41:34,200 --> 00:41:36,600 collapse, you want to Lehman Brothers and when I say want, I 829 00:41:36,607 --> 00:41:38,600 don't mean the media will say just mean like that's a clear 830 00:41:38,600 --> 00:41:39,900 signal. You feel like if you have a 831 00:41:39,908 --> 00:41:42,800 bubble, you have. I mean SoftBank is down a lot 832 00:41:42,900 --> 00:41:44,800 and there's a lot more markdown, so soft. 833 00:41:45,300 --> 00:41:47,600 Is looking. I mean, again these things are 834 00:41:47,600 --> 00:41:51,600 never like a total total shock. I mean, on the one hand, like 835 00:41:51,600 --> 00:41:54,700 Enron was one of the most, you know, popular companies 836 00:41:54,700 --> 00:41:56,700 wherever. But my sense is that people were 837 00:41:56,700 --> 00:41:59,500 also like deeply skeptical of it at the time. 838 00:41:59,600 --> 00:42:01,200 Sure. I mean, they were aware that it 839 00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:02,900 was responsible for many bad things. 840 00:42:02,900 --> 00:42:06,800 The idea of like energy trading was not a sustainable business 841 00:42:06,800 --> 00:42:07,900 in the way that they were doing it. 842 00:42:07,900 --> 00:42:10,900 Like let alone like like forgetting the fraud and and all 843 00:42:10,900 --> 00:42:12,900 that aspect. But you know, like Lehman 844 00:42:12,900 --> 00:42:16,700 Brothers like people were looking For a load-bearing beam 845 00:42:16,800 --> 00:42:19,300 in the economy to collapse to bring down a whole bunch of 846 00:42:19,300 --> 00:42:23,300 things and it's I just don't know what it would be here. 847 00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,000 We talked about this before, on the show like we had success 848 00:42:26,000 --> 00:42:27,000 with it. Yeah. 849 00:42:27,000 --> 00:42:30,100 Like it's just it's I mean, Robin Hood is not load-bearing. 850 00:42:30,100 --> 00:42:33,400 But I mean we have yet to see the sort of dramatic 851 00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:37,200 bankruptcies. I mean you know, emile's company 852 00:42:37,400 --> 00:42:41,100 d-wave just listed through ass pack and the fact that I mean 853 00:42:41,100 --> 00:42:45,400 these Quantum companies which even if the technology is As 854 00:42:45,400 --> 00:42:49,700 good as advertised have just such a long time Horizon, right? 855 00:42:49,700 --> 00:42:53,700 You know, I just feel like we're still seeing sort of, you know, 856 00:42:53,800 --> 00:42:56,600 optimistic forward-looking stuff. 857 00:42:57,300 --> 00:42:59,600 And that's why I'm saying I right now we're in this what I 858 00:42:59,600 --> 00:43:04,400 believe to be sort of a temporary up turns out at CERN. 859 00:43:04,400 --> 00:43:07,100 It's making everybody sort of feel good about the. 860 00:43:07,100 --> 00:43:09,500 I mean, literally true moth. I've been listening to all in a 861 00:43:09,500 --> 00:43:11,200 lot. I'm thinking about writing a 862 00:43:11,207 --> 00:43:14,900 piece about them and like, Josh, your mouth was basically like, 863 00:43:15,300 --> 00:43:17,500 You know, take a Victory lap, he's a stock market, you know? 864 00:43:17,500 --> 00:43:20,300 Because his stuff is up, like 20% or so, you know, it's like 865 00:43:20,300 --> 00:43:24,000 so like this last six months, I mean, like he's he must be down 866 00:43:24,000 --> 00:43:27,700 unbelievably from the SPAC Peak that he had right. 867 00:43:27,700 --> 00:43:30,500 Like there's no there is nothing for him to Champion until he's 868 00:43:30,500 --> 00:43:34,300 like up again from, you know, from the beginning of the wave 869 00:43:34,300 --> 00:43:36,800 that he created with specs. I mean that would be an 870 00:43:36,800 --> 00:43:38,600 interesting thing. But again, like the SEC 871 00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:41,600 basically killed specs, so it never got to a point where it 872 00:43:41,600 --> 00:43:44,900 could be such a large part of the market that, you know, it 873 00:43:46,400 --> 00:43:48,400 You know, like the bad fundamentals of all those 874 00:43:48,400 --> 00:43:50,900 businesses could be like, you know, have larger Ripple 875 00:43:50,900 --> 00:43:53,400 effects. I don't know, I don't know. 876 00:43:53,400 --> 00:43:55,600 I mean it's very strange to cover because of that. 877 00:43:55,600 --> 00:43:56,800 Right? Like you want to write the 878 00:43:56,800 --> 00:44:00,300 Lord's Trend piece to explain the State of Affairs, it just 879 00:44:00,300 --> 00:44:02,500 seems like it's mostly just a valuation reset, right. 880 00:44:02,500 --> 00:44:04,700 Just a lot of companies that were growth, right? 881 00:44:04,700 --> 00:44:07,300 That's makes clear and I mean that's where it's been super 882 00:44:07,300 --> 00:44:11,300 interesting because you saw like well I mean that, you know, it 883 00:44:11,308 --> 00:44:13,600 companies had fallen a lot and then they rebound a lot. 884 00:44:13,600 --> 00:44:17,300 I mean, it's all you see a lot of Arresting price Discovery 885 00:44:17,300 --> 00:44:19,700 happening which you know, makes the market more fun. 886 00:44:19,800 --> 00:44:21,800 Yeah. And like when the supply chain 887 00:44:21,800 --> 00:44:24,300 is like at the center of a lot of the problems and it's such a 888 00:44:24,300 --> 00:44:26,900 complicated right? You know ASP races were in say 889 00:44:26,900 --> 00:44:30,200 now they're low, you know, we had all this coverage about gas 890 00:44:30,200 --> 00:44:32,900 prices and now it's like they're low again. 891 00:44:32,900 --> 00:44:34,800 I mean other still high, but they're not as high. 892 00:44:34,800 --> 00:44:37,100 They're prettier way down and they are down. 893 00:44:37,200 --> 00:44:38,900 I'm still paying more than five dollars a gallon. 894 00:44:39,000 --> 00:44:41,600 Yeah, you live in California, I mean, I'm saying you're crazy a 895 00:44:41,607 --> 00:44:44,200 lot, but I used to think people who live in California, New 896 00:44:44,200 --> 00:44:47,200 York. Yeah, being shocked about gas 897 00:44:47,200 --> 00:44:49,100 prices. I mean, to be clear, we should 898 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:52,800 have gas taxes like high, gas prices make sense. 899 00:44:53,700 --> 00:44:55,500 Yeah, that's, that's, that's a difficult argument. 900 00:44:55,500 --> 00:44:57,600 I saw people out there making it basically. 901 00:44:57,600 --> 00:45:01,400 We, I'm like saying the higher than Tracy, that forces people 902 00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:04,500 to not use their yes. And it's like, yeah, the market 903 00:45:04,500 --> 00:45:06,400 is supposed to word. It's a regressive, it's a 904 00:45:06,400 --> 00:45:09,900 regressive tax, most of the time like it's like taxing 905 00:45:09,900 --> 00:45:11,600 cigarettes. Ultimately like the people that 906 00:45:11,600 --> 00:45:15,000 don't have money, still have to use cars, and if you raise gas 907 00:45:15,000 --> 00:45:16,900 prices, They're not going to suddenly be able to do their 908 00:45:16,900 --> 00:45:19,700 jobs by taking public transit. Which by the way, rich people 909 00:45:19,700 --> 00:45:21,500 don't do. And like, if this was done 910 00:45:21,500 --> 00:45:24,700 hand-in-hand from like making public transit functional and 911 00:45:24,700 --> 00:45:27,900 like something that people all over cities and like Suburban 912 00:45:27,900 --> 00:45:30,200 areas could use then I could like begin to hear that 913 00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:32,200 argument. But I would think your crew you 914 00:45:32,200 --> 00:45:35,500 know the the sort of Market based thinking would be you're 915 00:45:35,500 --> 00:45:39,000 creating more support for public transit. 916 00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:43,100 If people feel squeezed by taking their cars and pandering 917 00:45:43,100 --> 00:45:47,900 to people and the poorest People obviously don't have cars so 918 00:45:47,900 --> 00:45:52,400 we're talking it is a middle-class shoe and then there 919 00:45:52,400 --> 00:45:55,200 is like, people can still have cars, you know, there are, there 920 00:45:55,200 --> 00:46:00,000 are in there are sort of Middle Ground Solutions, Beyond just, 921 00:46:00,500 --> 00:46:03,600 you know, not going anywhere. You can drive less. 922 00:46:03,700 --> 00:46:06,200 I would actually be in favor of having a guest on here to talk 923 00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:07,800 through some of this stuff. Because I do think it's 924 00:46:07,800 --> 00:46:09,500 interesting. I always thought like the 925 00:46:09,500 --> 00:46:13,000 transit aspect of the gig economy was the most interesting 926 00:46:13,000 --> 00:46:15,400 part of the be that I probably should have written more about. 927 00:46:15,500 --> 00:46:17,600 Bout. You did some of the gas stories? 928 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:19,600 Yeah, I did the gas stories. And I also wrote a bit about 929 00:46:19,600 --> 00:46:22,300 companies that were trying to use because like, uber pool as 930 00:46:22,300 --> 00:46:24,500 you like to say, was a failure. Yes. 931 00:46:24,500 --> 00:46:27,000 And but they like, the idea of it is obviously a good one, 932 00:46:27,000 --> 00:46:31,200 which is like, how do we create efficiencies in car sharing? 933 00:46:31,200 --> 00:46:33,800 Which it's obviously not. That is not happened. 934 00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,300 We've just like clogged cities with gig workers who were just 935 00:46:37,300 --> 00:46:39,800 trying to pick up fares and like made traffic worse. 936 00:46:40,100 --> 00:46:42,100 So, Uber pool was supposed to be solution to that, but it didn't 937 00:46:42,100 --> 00:46:44,300 work for a meal, you know, a million reasons. 938 00:46:44,500 --> 00:46:48,100 But the technology Behind it. If it were actually perfected, 939 00:46:48,100 --> 00:46:50,700 could be good, right? Like, you could have a sort of 940 00:46:50,700 --> 00:46:53,300 like smart routing public transit system that is like 941 00:46:53,300 --> 00:46:56,700 equivalent to an Uber pool, but actually makes economic sense 942 00:46:56,700 --> 00:46:58,200 because you're using larger vehicles. 943 00:46:58,500 --> 00:47:01,100 I find all that stuff really interesting and it's an area 944 00:47:01,100 --> 00:47:03,700 that Uber has absolutely failed in, but there are some startups 945 00:47:03,700 --> 00:47:05,400 that are trying to do it. I don't know. 946 00:47:05,400 --> 00:47:10,800 I'm so skeptical that anyone who says they can try and do, I just 947 00:47:10,800 --> 00:47:15,000 feel like uber We talked about this company way too much, but, 948 00:47:15,000 --> 00:47:17,500 Uber through, what what's the number now? 949 00:47:17,500 --> 00:47:21,300 Like, 30 plus billion dollars at these problems, like, if we 950 00:47:21,300 --> 00:47:25,100 haven't experimented enough on what's possible with routing, 951 00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:29,700 what's possible with carbon like they've failed, you know, there 952 00:47:29,700 --> 00:47:32,400 was a huge subsidy to make this possible, right, and they 953 00:47:32,400 --> 00:47:35,300 couldn't make it work, consumers weren't willing to pay for it. 954 00:47:35,300 --> 00:47:39,300 So I don't think some small piddly startup is just going to 955 00:47:39,308 --> 00:47:41,900 like, I mean, this happens obviously, you know, in 956 00:47:41,900 --> 00:47:42,700 comments. Get sloppy. 957 00:47:42,700 --> 00:47:46,400 But I just feel like we just went through a period of massive 958 00:47:46,400 --> 00:47:49,400 research in this and I just don't think it works. 959 00:47:49,400 --> 00:47:53,500 I think it makes much more sense to just like improve the bus 960 00:47:53,500 --> 00:47:55,900 system. You know, like the buses Newark. 961 00:47:55,900 --> 00:47:59,000 I mean, the bus just doesn't come like you go and wait for 962 00:47:59,000 --> 00:48:00,200 it. Like I don't know why it doesn't 963 00:48:00,200 --> 00:48:04,500 count but like I really like just my just some tweaks to the 964 00:48:04,500 --> 00:48:07,300 municipal bus services in the biggest cities in the world 965 00:48:07,300 --> 00:48:10,600 seems more valuable than like, I don't know. 966 00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:14,000 Even though I tend to believe in Solving these things on on 967 00:48:14,000 --> 00:48:17,300 busing them, pretty, right? This is quite a change from from 968 00:48:17,300 --> 00:48:18,600 last week. When you were saying that you 969 00:48:18,600 --> 00:48:21,700 thought Amazon could could fix our Health Care system, because 970 00:48:21,700 --> 00:48:24,400 they're a great company. Well, part of the problem is 971 00:48:24,400 --> 00:48:28,100 that a company would be competing against a subsidized 972 00:48:28,100 --> 00:48:30,100 service. So if you were to take this 973 00:48:30,100 --> 00:48:34,600 subsidy that we use for buses and handed over to a company or 974 00:48:34,600 --> 00:48:39,200 sort of competing companies, maybe I would be bullish on 975 00:48:39,200 --> 00:48:41,300 that. Meanwhile, Amazon is moving into 976 00:48:41,300 --> 00:48:44,900 competing against like Like doctors offices, right? 977 00:48:45,100 --> 00:48:46,900 Other companies? Sure, sure. 978 00:48:47,000 --> 00:48:48,100 Yeah. It's a different art I'm saying. 979 00:48:48,100 --> 00:48:52,500 Don't compete against a subsidized service that seems 980 00:48:52,500 --> 00:48:56,100 like a loser. I don't think it's hard to be so 981 00:48:56,100 --> 00:48:58,400 much more efficient that you can be do something. 982 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,600 So, I mean, what these startups man, we really should bring 983 00:49:01,600 --> 00:49:03,400 someone on if you're interested in this because there are a lot 984 00:49:03,400 --> 00:49:06,100 out there and they are smart people that their argument is 985 00:49:06,100 --> 00:49:08,600 basically just trying to win contracts with public transit. 986 00:49:08,800 --> 00:49:12,300 So it's like we have great routing technology, we can input 987 00:49:12,300 --> 00:49:16,200 that In your buses and make them kind of be like ride hail 988 00:49:16,200 --> 00:49:19,600 adjacent, you know, like uber pools but with larger vehicles 989 00:49:19,900 --> 00:49:21,500 and it wouldn't be like some company doing it. 990 00:49:21,508 --> 00:49:23,700 They would be providing the technology that undergirds it 991 00:49:23,700 --> 00:49:27,200 and maybe the app or something not not much money, maybe maybe 992 00:49:27,200 --> 00:49:29,400 do it again, I got some it not, it's not a great. 993 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,900 If I mean, these companies have been pitching me for my like 994 00:49:31,900 --> 00:49:34,000 four years, I just sort of avoid them at all. 995 00:49:34,000 --> 00:49:37,600 I mean, none of them have well, these down to, it's really hard. 996 00:49:37,600 --> 00:49:40,900 I mean, like these basically say for most companies, if your 997 00:49:40,900 --> 00:49:43,400 client is the government. We're not all that interested 998 00:49:43,400 --> 00:49:46,500 unless it's the government trying to kill people and then 999 00:49:46,500 --> 00:49:49,000 there's a lot of door and that if sure if you want to help the 1000 00:49:49,000 --> 00:49:52,400 government do what it does. Best the course of a honest of 1001 00:49:52,400 --> 00:49:57,500 the state, exactly what we were once great at and Erica killing 1002 00:49:57,500 --> 00:49:59,400 people. It's Kia, the military 1003 00:49:59,400 --> 00:50:01,800 industrial complex was like a great opportunity. 1004 00:50:01,800 --> 00:50:03,500 Yeah. I mean that people these are 1005 00:50:03,500 --> 00:50:07,500 extremely bullish on enderal. I do think people really look to 1006 00:50:07,500 --> 00:50:10,900 that as a model and so I think there's going to be a lot of 1007 00:50:10,900 --> 00:50:13,400 investing in that space. I mean And recent obviously as 1008 00:50:13,400 --> 00:50:17,100 American dynamism. So it's red hot. 1009 00:50:17,200 --> 00:50:19,200 Yeah. Cal is starting to throw like 1010 00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:22,200 clothes off my bed so we probably have to wrap it up 1011 00:50:22,200 --> 00:50:24,800 there. Soon was there anything else you 1012 00:50:24,800 --> 00:50:26,700 want to talk about? We didn't really get into the 1013 00:50:26,700 --> 00:50:29,600 Trump FBI's. Well without Katie I feel like 1014 00:50:29,600 --> 00:50:32,200 it's yeah we can we can put a pin in that. 1015 00:50:32,800 --> 00:50:35,900 I have so many questions so many questions. 1016 00:50:36,500 --> 00:50:38,700 I feel like we've just moved fully into the Burn After 1017 00:50:38,700 --> 00:50:42,100 Reading version of reality. Anyway, this was good. 1018 00:50:42,100 --> 00:50:43,800 I'm I'm glad to be back. Yeah. 1019 00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:46,300 I mean I'm glad to take a vacation but I had I had a lot 1020 00:50:46,300 --> 00:50:50,100 of thoughts that I had no Outlet, no Forum to put them in 1021 00:50:51,000 --> 00:50:53,500 so I guess if nothing else. That's what this podcast is for. 1022 00:50:54,100 --> 00:50:55,800 I can't even promise. What will happen next week? 1023 00:50:55,800 --> 00:50:57,900 We've previewed a couple of guests coming up soon. 1024 00:50:57,900 --> 00:50:59,900 We'll have Mark Bergen on. Oh yeah. 1025 00:50:59,900 --> 00:51:02,300 About YouTube, we have a few other ideas. 1026 00:51:02,300 --> 00:51:05,100 We've been. We've been working on, so stay 1027 00:51:05,100 --> 00:51:07,200 tuned. Thanks for listening and we'll 1028 00:51:07,200 --> 00:51:09,200 see everyone back here next week. 1029 00:51:11,100 --> 00:51:23,100 Goodbye. Goodbye, goodbye. 1030 00:51:23,100 --> 00:51:25,700 Goodbye, goodbye, goodbye, goodbye. 1031 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:26,100 Goodbye.