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Welcome to studying law around 
the world. 

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I'm Claudio. 
Claus in each episode. 

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I talk with lawyers, law 
students, and professors from 

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different parts of the world to 
talk about legal education, 

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careers, and what the profession
looks like in real life. 

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We talk about the hard parts, 
the surprises, and the decisions

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that shaped their paths. 
Whether you're planning to study

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abroad, thinking about working 
in another legal system, or just

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curious about how law works 
around the world, this podcast 

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is for you. 
So many of the guests on this 

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podcast have talked about how 
important it is to have strong 

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writing skills as a lawyer. 
It's true, written communication

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is essential in this profession,
but it can also be one of the 

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trickiest skills to master. 
If you find your writing feels a

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bit clunky, or you're getting a 
lot of edits on your work, or 

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perhaps you're breaking into an 
English speaking jurisdiction 

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for the first time, Grammatica 
International can help. 

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I'm Rebecca Lockwood, the 
lawyer, mediator and educator 

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behind Grammatica, and we help 
lawyers and law students to 

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write more sharply, speak more 
clearly, and advance their 

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careers with group training and 
one-on-one skills coaching 

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designed just for legal 
professionals. 

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I have worked with so many 
lawyers like you who are 

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exceptionally smart, qualified 
and capable, but need a bit of 

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guidance to stand out in a 
competitive legal market. 

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And I get it myself, having 
lived and worked in five 

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countries during my 17 years in 
law and education. 

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Whether you're looking to 
sharpen your writing skills 

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generally, refresh your CV, or 
draft an application for a law 

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program, Grammatica can help. 
Visit gramatica.co to learn 

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more. 
Today I have the opportunity to 

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host Talita Crank, who has an 
incredible international career.

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She has done an LM and a JD in 
Indiana and now works at a 

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multinational company in the US.
Thank you so much for joining us

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today, Talita. 
Thank you for having me. 

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I'm very happy to share a little
bit of my story and inspire 

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other students, attorneys and 
international people like me. 

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And you start off our 
conversation today. 

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I'd love to hear a little bit 
about yourself, if you could 

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start by introducing yourself 
and also sharing a little bit 

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about your journey from Jerome 
Peso in Brazil to becoming an 

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international attorney in the 
US. 

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But in my career back in Brazil 
in 2007 when I started law 

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school there and I came from a 
family of attorneys, so was easy

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to choose which professional I 
wanted because since I was very 

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young, I used to go to my mom's 
law firm and help her with 

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administrative things. 
So I grew up in a law firm. 

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Then I graduated in grazing 
2011. 

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I took the Brazilian Bar I exam 
when I was sewing law school and

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legal license in 2012 and I 
joined the Ministry of Public of

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Paraiba, which is our state 
prosecutors office. 

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At that time. 
I wanted to be a prosecutor and 

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I stayed there for 3 1/2 years 
and I've never thought about 

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having an international career 
before. 

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I wanted to be a state 
prosecutor. 

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But then life happened and I met
my husband in Brazil and he's 

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American. 
And when the relationship 

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started to be more serious in 
that we decided to get married 

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and moved to the US, I still 
wanted to be a lawyer. 

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So I'm one of those people who 
chose to be a lawyer twice and I

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had to restart my career in 
Indiana. 

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At that time, I could not just 
take an element in the bar exam 

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like some states in the US 
allows you to do. 

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I had to to do the entire JD 
Juris Dr. the course, the 

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three-year full time course to 
be able to sit for the bar 

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Indiana. 
So then I started my career back

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in high school doing an LLM a 
finished in one year and a half.

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And then I started the JD after 
graduation. 

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So was back-to-back. 
I was in law school during the 

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pandemic, so it took me a while 
to graduate. 

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So instead of three, I graduated
in four with LLM and JD. 

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I, I took like like 5 years of 
law school again, five years and

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I have to be more specific was 
like a journey everything again.

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And during that time I joined 
association, I was president of 

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the Masters of Law association. 
I worked for the attorney 

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General Indiana. 
So I had the opportunity of 

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doing a lot of internships 
again, meeting new people. 

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So even though I was back in 
high school was a wonderful time

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because I had the opportunity to
actually have my career in the 

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US too, like from the beginning 
and build that. 

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So after life school, I decided 
that I was wanting to practice 

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immigration law because I wanted
to help immigrants like me 

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basically, and I had already 
some clients for all my presence

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in the Internet. 
And I opened my own law firm, 

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Crank Law. 
After a year and a half with my 

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law firm, I received an 
invitation from a recruiter to 

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come and join the process, the 
selection process of a 

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multinational in the United 
States. 

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So today I relocated from 
Indiana to Colorado and I'm 

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integration manager and council 
for this multinational company. 

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Amazing that's that's quite the 
journey and an incredible story.

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Something that I loved you to go
and luck was people who come in 

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the podcast with guests. 
Here is a little bit of the the 

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back story of of those choices 
in in the career they took. 

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And I'd love to ask, going back 
to Brazil, how those early 

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experiences that you had working
in human rights and prosecution 

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shaped the kind of lawyer you 
wanted to? 

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Become, I think what I have 
learned throughout my career 

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with very diverse experiences 
that I had in the past was 

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there's there are people behind 
each case. 

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It is not just paperwork. 
So I'll be on the prosecutor 

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side. 
I've been on the attorney side. 

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I was a mediator judge by King 
Brazil and all this position 

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helped me to learn that there 
are people behind and our 

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profession gives us a lot of 
powers. 

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So humanize the papers, know 
that it's alive, their people, 

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their dreams, their stories 
behind those cases. 

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It is what I could get the most 
from all my experiences. 

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It's not just writing and 
reading and correcting, but it's

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also learning that their lives 
at that are on our hands. 

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And thinking now about the work 
you have an international 

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company and also the work you 
had in your firm, I'd love to 

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hear a little bit of, you know, 
maybe trends or challenges that 

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you see right now in corporate 
immigration. 

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Well, with the current 
administration right now, we are

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under Trump. 
We have been having a lot of 

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challenges because policies are 
changing daily. 

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Basically every day they're new 
thing going on, a new executive 

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order, a new policy. 
So keeping up to date to those 

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decisions are being very hard. 
Also, the termination of a lot 

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of programs that we rely on like
humanitarian paroles, increasing

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fees, changing procedures. 
So it is a very challenging 

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administration. 
All those decisions impact our 

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business directly. 
For example, some of our current

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employees were terminated due to
the revocation of some paroles, 

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some work permits. 
So our budget, it's suffers the 

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impact when the government 
increases fees overnight. 

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So I think those are the biggest
challenges we are having right 

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now under the Trump 
administration. 

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And as an attorney, we need to 
be up to date to everything to 

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advise the business. 
So every day I start my day and 

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I I joke that I don't know what 
is going to happen because maybe

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during the day still having this
seizure that will impact my job 

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directly is being definitely 
very challenging. 

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I. 
See, I understand early in this 

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podcast you mentioned you have a
an online presence on the 

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Internet of the Brazilian public
and you've received the awards, 

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you've been interviewed by CNN 
and spoken at universities are 

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associations. 
So I also wanted to ask, how has

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sharing your voice publicly 
shaped your career and you 

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opportunities you've been 
involved? 

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At definitely helped me a lot 
with networking. 

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My online presence was very 
organic because I started back 

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in 2016 when I started studying 
English in the US. 

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So I couldn't drive because of 
all the paperwork and documents 

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we had. 
Like when we changed countries, 

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we know we just need to do 
everything again. 

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So I didn't have a drivers 
license and I had to wait for my

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husband to leave work to pick me
up at school. 

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And during that time, I had to 
do something. 

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So I started sharing via 
Instagram story like this is my 

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life in the United States and 
this is my school and this is 

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the university and look how is 
the classroom. 

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But back on that time, not a lot
of people just to do that. 

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So it became interesting and 
people knew that I was 

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determined to have my career 
back and become a lawyer in the 

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United States. 
So people actually were 

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interested to follow that 
journey and they started 

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following me and going through 
everyday school, everyday life. 

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And, you know, following those 
things, I was able to inspire a 

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lot of young attorneys, a lot of
international people to start 

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their international career too. 
Because sometimes you think it's

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impossible. 
It's so hard. 

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It is hard, it is, but it's not 
impossible. 

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You know, it takes a lot of 
determination, it takes a lot of

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hard work, but it's not 
impossible. 

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So sometimes when people were 
seeing that, they could see that

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it was possible. 
And because of that, I was able 

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to have a network of attorneys, 
international attorneys, people 

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from all around the world. 
And those people were helping me

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when I graduated and I became a 
lawyer, either referring me, 

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recommending me for clients or 
even for a opportunity. 

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My job opportunity today came 
from a person who Naomi from 

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Instagram and recommended me to 
a recruiter. 

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And you know, now I am now. 
And then I invited another 

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friend to kind of join a 
selection process in my current 

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company and she got a job too. 
So you know, the power of 

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networking, think, expose 
yourself to people helps a lot 

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on the long run. 
I started my journey 2016 and 

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you see I still have 
consequences that come in like 

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came from people who were, you 
know, following me back in 2016.

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Networking, definitely. 
That's fantastic. 

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And, and looking back, what are 
some of the, the lessons that 

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you've learned through this this
journey? 

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So I know you've mentioned, you 
know, networking has been so 

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important in all of that. 
I also loved what you said about

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humanizing the documents and 
seeing the person and their 

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dreams behind every case. 
But I also know you learned a 

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lot about resilience, 
leadership, and navigating these

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very different legal systems. 
Definitely resilience because it

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took a lot of years, hard work, 
study I'm to get what I am 

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today. 
Coming to a new country is not 

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easy at all, especially with a 
different language. 

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So I had to learn English. 
I knew English from Brazil, but 

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of course my English was not as 
fluent as is today. 

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So I had to learn the language 
plus legal English, plus going 

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back to a different system from 
civil law to common law. 

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So everything, my life just went
upside down when I started my 

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journey in the United States. 
So resilience to understand that

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things take time, but those 
things will last forever. 

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Today I have a career, I have 
two diplomas that I conquered 

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and nobody can get away from me.
So as a woman, especially an 

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immigrant, this is very powerful
because I know today my 

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education brings me jobs, brings
me opportunities. 

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And even though I mean, in the 
United States without my family,

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I, I can still survive here. 
You know, I have a profession 

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that I can raise my child, I can
make money, I can have a life 

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here. 
And those were consequences of 

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those difficult times I had to 
go through to conquer my career 

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here. 
So that is the most powerful 

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lesson I've learned. 
Things take time, they are slow,

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they are more difficult for 
immigrants, but we can't give 

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up. 
Other things that I learned 

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during this journey, of course, 
is the power of networking, 

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power of communication, the 
power of telling your story, the

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power of knowing that your 
differences are also your 

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powers. 
So the fact that I have an 

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accent, that I speak Portuguese,
that I keep from Brazil, that I 

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have a different legal 
background, in the beginning was

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intimidating because as I was 
thinking, oh, I have an accent, 

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my English is not as good. 
Sometimes I can't commit some 

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errors. 
But then after a while, I 

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discovered that this is my main 
power. 

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The place I worked today wanted 
me because I was different, 

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because I was the first, because
I had the legal background 

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somewhere else, because I was 
able to relate to other 

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immigrants. 
I was able to not be just a 

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council, not be just a lawyer, 
but the point of contact and be 

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a human. 
Because as I said, the soft 

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skills today are valid 
everywhere. 

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So I think for people who come 
from another country is learning

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that your differences are your 
strength and know how to use 

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that in your favor. 
Fantastic. 

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And to wrap up today's episode, 
I wanted to ask you what advice 

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would you give to lost students 
or young lawyers who are 

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thinking about building an 
international career? 

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Definitely learn English, that's
the first thing I can tell you. 

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Doesn't matter where you are 
right now, but learning a second

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language, especially English, 
can open doors everywhere, even 

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in Brazil. 
I work for a multinational 

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company today that also brings 
people from Brazil. 

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So not only the people who are 
in the United States can get 

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opportunities, but you can get 
opportunities in your home 

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country. 
So if you join a multinational 

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in your home country, maybe this
multinational can bring you 

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somewhere else. 
But those things will happen if 

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you are very dedicated, if you 
perform well and if you learn 

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English or maybe a second 
language in the country, you'll,

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you'll want it to go. 
So this is the first advice I 

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give to anyone. 
Then research, research a lot, 

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come with a plan, have a plan, a
financial plan, a plan for 

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scholarship, plan for your 
university, a plan for your 

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city, a plan for everything. 
Just plan your life, plan the 

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life of your dreams and start 
from the bottom. 

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Like you start researching small
things like what is the cost of 

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the L and what is the cost of 
the JD. 

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Is there any way that I can get 
a scholarship, what I can do in 

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Brazil that can help me to get 
another opportunity in a 

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different country? 
I talk a lot about Brazil cause 

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Brasilia, but what are the 
opportunities you have in your 

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home country that can help you 
in the long run? 

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What what type of law I can 
start working in Brazil, but can

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also serve as an experience to 
my next step internationally. 

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So coming with a plan helps you 
in the long run. 

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So try to find people that have 
done the journey you want to 

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pursue. 
So we talked a lot of about 

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networking, but learning is 
where the advice is. 

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Those people can give to you 
what the challenges those people

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face before can help you to have
a big picture of all the 

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challenges you're gonna face and
plan and talk and meet people 

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and invite people for a coffee. 
Invite people to be your mentor.

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Have mentors. 
That helps a lot. 

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So those are the type of advice 
I give to people. 

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I think putting yourself out 
there and getting information, 

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getting feedback will help you a
lot on the long run. 

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Amazing. 
Thank you so much for taking the

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time to sharing those. 
Thank you so much. 

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Thank you for the opportunity of
sharing my story. 

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Do that like it's definitely 
possible. 

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It takes time, but it's 
possible. 

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Today in the United States, I 
conquered all my dreams, and all

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those dreams came from 
education. 

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I dreamed why I wasn't my school
to work for a multinational 

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company, to work for a diverse 
place, to be able to share my 

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culture, to be able to work with
everything I have to offer, 

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which is my language, my 
culture, my law school in 

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00:18:28,680 --> 00:18:31,470
Brazil, my law school in the US,
my English. 

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Everything was very important to
me. 

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And I found a position today 
that I'm able to do everything. 

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So it's definitely possible it 
also I'm available. 

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I'm still available for 
everybody who needs me. 

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Like any advice, anything other 
young professional, all the 

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attorneys need, I'm available. 
I'm on the Internet as rewire. 

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So just reach out if you need 
some encouragement in this 

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journey. 
And thank you again for having 

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me here and a congratulations on
your project. 

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Thank you all for tuning into 
today's episode and thanks 

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again, Talita for all the 
incredible advice. 

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Thank you. 
Bye. 

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Bye.