1 00:00:12,870 --> 00:00:14,820 Welcome to studying law around the world. 2 00:00:15,010 --> 00:00:17,860 I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with 3 00:00:17,870 --> 00:00:20,840 lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts 4 00:00:20,850 --> 00:00:24,740 of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the 5 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:26,420 profession looks like. In real life. 6 00:00:26,430 --> 00:00:29,470 We talk about the hard parts, the surprises and the decisions. 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,259 That shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study 8 00:00:32,270 --> 00:00:35,520 abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just 9 00:00:35,530 --> 00:00:38,440 curious about how law works around the world. 10 00:00:38,730 --> 00:00:44,350 This podcast is for you. This episode of Studying War 11 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:48,340 Around the World is proudly sponsored by ITL Prep from imand 12 00:00:48,390 --> 00:00:52,260 Exam Prep, the comprehensive resource designed specifically 13 00:00:52,330 --> 00:00:55,420 for internationally trained lawyers preparing for the Inca 14 00:00:55,430 --> 00:00:57,960 exams. We understand that the NCA 15 00:00:57,970 --> 00:01:00,200 accreditation journey can feel overwhelming. 16 00:01:00,290 --> 00:01:03,760 You can face many obstacles getting to success courses that 17 00:01:03,770 --> 00:01:06,060 cost too. Much offer too little. 18 00:01:06,210 --> 00:01:08,720 Or leave you more confused than when you started. 19 00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:12,720 That's why Inland Exam Prep created ITIL Prep a smarter, 20 00:01:12,790 --> 00:01:16,120 more reliable way to succeed. 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It's built. 32 00:01:49,250 --> 00:01:52,720 With you in mind and right now we're offering something special 33 00:01:52,790 --> 00:01:56,220 as an exclusive offer for the Studying Law Around the World 34 00:01:56,230 --> 00:02:00,740 podcast listeners. ITIL Prep is offering 50% off 35 00:02:00,790 --> 00:02:03,780 all courses for the 1st 50 purchases. 36 00:02:03,830 --> 00:02:07,600 Simply use the promo code ITL 50 at checkout. 37 00:02:07,670 --> 00:02:11,310 Casebooks and elder resources must be purchased separately. 38 00:02:11,360 --> 00:02:19,570 Visit imams today, that's emond, and use promo code ITL 50 to 39 00:02:19,580 --> 00:02:24,010 claim your 50% discount on NCA exam preparation courses. 40 00:02:28,130 --> 00:02:31,520 Today, I have the opportunity to have Carlos Romero as one of our 41 00:02:31,530 --> 00:02:34,360 guests. He has recently finished his LLM 42 00:02:34,370 --> 00:02:37,820 at University of Chicago and is now an International Associate 43 00:02:37,830 --> 00:02:40,270 at White and Case. Thank you so much for taking the 44 00:02:40,280 --> 00:02:43,080 time to being with us and to answering some of my questions, 45 00:02:43,090 --> 00:02:44,520 Carlos. Peter, be here. 46 00:02:44,530 --> 00:02:47,720 Claudio actually part of your. Audience because I've heard. 47 00:02:47,770 --> 00:02:50,890 So many of your episodes. So it's very nice to be on this 48 00:02:50,900 --> 00:02:54,060 side of the microphone today. Honored, happy and excited to be 49 00:02:54,070 --> 00:02:54,450 here. Thank. 50 00:02:54,460 --> 00:02:59,300 You thank you, thank you. And for for listeners who are 51 00:02:59,530 --> 00:03:02,540 getting to hear about you for the first time, can you tell us 52 00:03:02,550 --> 00:03:04,960 a little bit about yourself? Of course, of course. 53 00:03:04,970 --> 00:03:09,830 Well, and I'm, I'm married and my wife is also my, my business 54 00:03:09,840 --> 00:03:13,630 partner and we had two daughters, a newborn actually. 55 00:03:13,700 --> 00:03:16,290 And we also have a dog. So that's a pretty big part of 56 00:03:16,460 --> 00:03:19,750 our family, our Mexican. And as you said, currently 57 00:03:19,760 --> 00:03:22,240 working at wedding case and international arbitration 58 00:03:22,250 --> 00:03:24,690 practice based in Washington, DC. 59 00:03:24,920 --> 00:03:28,600 And my time at the firm will come to an end by the end of 60 00:03:28,610 --> 00:03:30,550 this month, in Halloween actually. 61 00:03:30,660 --> 00:03:33,270 So. Our plan is to relocate back to 62 00:03:33,320 --> 00:03:35,230 Chihuahua, Mexico where I'm from. 63 00:03:35,240 --> 00:03:39,150 They expect to rejoin my wife in our legal translation firm, but 64 00:03:39,160 --> 00:03:43,270 we started six years ago and I'm open to other businessmen 65 00:03:43,280 --> 00:03:46,770 dentures as long as I can be based in in Chihuahua. 66 00:03:46,820 --> 00:03:51,110 And last but not least, I enjoy talking about Ellen programs in 67 00:03:51,120 --> 00:03:54,720 careers for lawyers in Mexico and and abroad. 68 00:03:54,770 --> 00:03:57,540 So that's that clothing. And your junker writing to some 69 00:03:57,550 --> 00:04:00,600 of the questions that I prepared for our conversation here today. 70 00:04:00,710 --> 00:04:03,700 I wanted to ask you about the this whole experience, right. 71 00:04:03,710 --> 00:04:07,930 So you were a lawyer, you worked with legal translation and then 72 00:04:07,940 --> 00:04:12,360 you decided to start an LM. So I'd love to to start hearing 73 00:04:12,370 --> 00:04:15,040 a little bit about that. You know, looking back, what was 74 00:04:15,050 --> 00:04:18,220 that decision like? How did you set yourself up to 75 00:04:18,230 --> 00:04:20,240 do that? And University of Chicago is a 76 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:23,500 pretty prestigious university. So I'd love to hear about your 77 00:04:23,710 --> 00:04:26,110 your story and experience there. Thanks. 78 00:04:26,750 --> 00:04:30,760 I was warning the US raised in Chihuahua and they moved to 79 00:04:30,810 --> 00:04:34,240 Monterrey, Mexico, which is a bigger city to go to law school. 80 00:04:34,290 --> 00:04:38,390 And when I was an intern at a corporate law firm there, I 81 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,710 noticed that many partners had LLM degrees. 82 00:04:41,820 --> 00:04:48,590 So that was back in 2012. So when I graduated in 2013, I 83 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,210 was always keeping an eye on LLM programs. 84 00:04:51,220 --> 00:04:55,790 I was very excited about that. But no time went by and and I 85 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:58,790 was not applying. And another you went by and that 86 00:04:58,800 --> 00:05:02,570 was not applying. And then I switched jobs a lot 87 00:05:02,580 --> 00:05:05,950 and then I got married to my law school sweetheart. 88 00:05:06,020 --> 00:05:10,200 And then at some point 10 years went by and and we were talking 89 00:05:10,210 --> 00:05:14,130 discussing about another program on on a long road trip we had 90 00:05:14,250 --> 00:05:16,630 and she was like all in very supportive. 91 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:20,700 And at that point, we already had some nice enough savings to 92 00:05:21,750 --> 00:05:25,010 we pay for the tuition and the living expenses. 93 00:05:25,070 --> 00:05:28,000 So we decided to move forward after 10 years. 94 00:05:28,050 --> 00:05:31,760 So I, I started applying to a bunch of law schools, 12 law 95 00:05:31,770 --> 00:05:35,960 schools in the US and I was accepted, admitted some law 96 00:05:35,970 --> 00:05:39,230 schools, rejected from some and whitelisted and others. 97 00:05:39,240 --> 00:05:42,670 So I was playing this game of getting like in waitlisted and 98 00:05:42,680 --> 00:05:45,060 scholarships and scholarship negotiations. 99 00:05:45,070 --> 00:05:47,880 And I learned a lot during that process. 100 00:05:48,010 --> 00:05:52,740 And, and I was first going to Berkeley and then Georgetown and 101 00:05:52,750 --> 00:05:55,480 then finally I was admitted to University of Chicago. 102 00:05:55,660 --> 00:05:59,330 And it was a like, in my opinion, like the best law 103 00:05:59,340 --> 00:06:03,170 school that admitted me. So I decided to to enroll there 104 00:06:03,240 --> 00:06:06,650 in and we moved to Chicago. It was it was the process of 105 00:06:06,900 --> 00:06:10,650 moving to the US. Fantastic and and building on 106 00:06:10,660 --> 00:06:13,550 this law school experience and what prepared you for? 107 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,550 For the role you currently. Have as well. 108 00:06:15,720 --> 00:06:18,810 I'm curious about, you know, what kind of skills you used up 109 00:06:18,890 --> 00:06:22,630 in your day-to-day role and then also a little bit of the story 110 00:06:22,640 --> 00:06:24,650 of how you're building over the years. 111 00:06:25,000 --> 00:06:29,570 The most challenging assignment that I had during my fellowship, 112 00:06:29,580 --> 00:06:34,750 so my position is like Latin American fellowship was to, to 113 00:06:34,760 --> 00:06:38,810 do some research and drafting an initial assessment, a memorandum 114 00:06:38,980 --> 00:06:42,920 regarding some investor state dispute on Mexican tax law 115 00:06:42,930 --> 00:06:45,560 matters. I guess I was very lucky because 116 00:06:45,610 --> 00:06:47,980 first of all, I'm familiar with Mexican law. 117 00:06:48,050 --> 00:06:52,140 So that's, that's convenient. And also I had previous 118 00:06:52,150 --> 00:06:54,360 experience as a tax lawyer in Mexico. 119 00:06:54,490 --> 00:06:59,980 So I guess that really helped me to cut could chase try to do 120 00:06:59,990 --> 00:07:04,860 some drafting that was a shoulder than the usual Mexican 121 00:07:05,170 --> 00:07:08,200 long documents that we are familiar with. 122 00:07:08,270 --> 00:07:12,180 The simpler drafting was a skill that I, I wasn't familiar with, 123 00:07:12,190 --> 00:07:15,540 but it was easier for me because I understand the, the substance 124 00:07:15,550 --> 00:07:18,360 of the matter in this case. So that was, that was pretty 125 00:07:18,370 --> 00:07:21,080 lucky. And also I, I also had 126 00:07:21,090 --> 00:07:24,700 experience as in house counsel in Mexico in, in that kind of 127 00:07:24,710 --> 00:07:28,870 knew that in-house lawyers prepare shoulder documents than 128 00:07:28,960 --> 00:07:31,920 those very, very long memorandums and laughed. 129 00:07:31,980 --> 00:07:36,070 I guess it was very useful to see other documents previously 130 00:07:36,290 --> 00:07:38,410 drafted by the firm, you know, and I'm talking about 131 00:07:38,480 --> 00:07:42,570 memorandums and also request for arbitrations because I also want 132 00:07:42,580 --> 00:07:45,270 to be involved in the drafting of the request of arbitration 133 00:07:45,340 --> 00:07:48,450 and seeing other documents using them as templates was very 134 00:07:48,460 --> 00:07:50,410 useful. Period Feedback from my 135 00:07:50,420 --> 00:07:52,790 supervisor was really helpful point. 136 00:07:52,840 --> 00:07:56,110 So I guess that was the biggest or most challenging, challenging 137 00:07:56,120 --> 00:07:57,900 experience they faced as a as a film. 138 00:07:58,660 --> 00:08:00,550 I see. That's so interesting. 139 00:08:00,620 --> 00:08:03,730 And something that that I've noticed is that you ride on 140 00:08:03,740 --> 00:08:08,010 LinkedIn about topics related to LOM, which is so interesting. 141 00:08:08,020 --> 00:08:12,020 And as somebody who is very interesting on the, the programs 142 00:08:12,030 --> 00:08:15,220 and entered the whole logistics and economics of foreign 143 00:08:15,230 --> 00:08:17,140 attorneys studying in North America. 144 00:08:17,210 --> 00:08:19,860 I wanted to ask you a little bit about, you know, if a foreign 145 00:08:19,870 --> 00:08:24,240 attorney wants to have some work experience in the US after their 146 00:08:24,250 --> 00:08:27,780 LM, what have you seen to be some of the possibilities and 147 00:08:27,790 --> 00:08:31,960 maybe even the most realistic path that they can do And, and 148 00:08:31,970 --> 00:08:35,289 even how do they prepare for that in, in the first year when 149 00:08:35,299 --> 00:08:37,940 they were still in the LM? Course course clouded. 150 00:08:37,950 --> 00:08:40,000 Please prepare for a long answer. 151 00:08:40,570 --> 00:08:42,200 Yeah, I'm happy to go back and forth. 152 00:08:42,530 --> 00:08:46,570 Well, as many of you know, and when you pursue an alarm in the 153 00:08:46,580 --> 00:08:51,800 United States, you are able to do like the OPT, the optional 154 00:08:51,810 --> 00:08:54,780 practical training. So that's, that allows you to 155 00:08:54,790 --> 00:08:56,800 work in the US for 12 months, right? 156 00:08:56,890 --> 00:08:59,240 I'm talking about migration wise. 157 00:08:59,290 --> 00:09:02,830 If you want to stay longer in the US you can do that with the 158 00:09:02,840 --> 00:09:07,300 H1B visa which now if it requires $100,000. 159 00:09:07,350 --> 00:09:13,400 Luckily for Mexican attorneys and Canadian attorneys 1000 USMC 160 00:09:13,410 --> 00:09:17,960 AD said it that TNB said which Dawson require that fee right. 161 00:09:18,130 --> 00:09:21,780 Having said that, only a very small percentage of allium 162 00:09:21,790 --> 00:09:24,600 students actually land a job in the US. 163 00:09:24,750 --> 00:09:26,480 A very, very, very small percentage. 164 00:09:26,590 --> 00:09:30,990 And most of the jobs offer for 11 grads are one year positions. 165 00:09:31,050 --> 00:09:35,760 Very few are permanent positions where elements usually but not 166 00:09:35,770 --> 00:09:39,760 always start as first year associates in in big law. 167 00:09:39,770 --> 00:09:47,600 That means a salary is $225,000 at the the big picture right? 168 00:09:47,650 --> 00:09:51,560 In terms of actually landing those jobs, which is the hard 169 00:09:51,570 --> 00:09:53,310 part. Preparing to land the job in the 170 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:57,910 US usually starts way before starting your your limit. 171 00:09:58,460 --> 00:10:02,110 This program is known as foreign associate International visiting 172 00:10:02,120 --> 00:10:05,450 professional International fellowships are usually used by 173 00:10:05,660 --> 00:10:11,850 a big fears to strengthen their ties with clients or other firms 174 00:10:11,860 --> 00:10:13,190 abroad. So you need you need to 175 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:16,670 understand how these foreign attorney programs work and how 176 00:10:16,680 --> 00:10:20,230 can you fit in that logic. What business case can you build 177 00:10:20,300 --> 00:10:23,590 and present to to US firms to to try to get higher? 178 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:28,090 And so this one year positions are usually offered by U.S. law 179 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:31,870 firms to clients. And by that I mean to lawyers 180 00:10:31,940 --> 00:10:36,390 working as in-house counsel in usually big companies in your 181 00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:41,480 home jurisdiction who which have international disputes or 182 00:10:41,490 --> 00:10:44,700 international transactions. And therefore these companies 183 00:10:44,710 --> 00:10:50,140 higher U.S. law folks, right? So there's one bucket like OPT 184 00:10:50,150 --> 00:10:54,280 positions offered to clients. And there's also another group 185 00:10:54,290 --> 00:10:59,440 of attorneys who work in big law firms in their home countries. 186 00:10:59,590 --> 00:11:04,020 This law firms usually work as local council along with U.S. 187 00:11:04,030 --> 00:11:07,880 law firms in this big deals, big international dies or 188 00:11:07,890 --> 00:11:11,140 international disputes, right? So the law firms want to make 189 00:11:11,150 --> 00:11:13,860 friends or straight from the relationship with this, the you 190 00:11:14,410 --> 00:11:17,640 want to do that with this international, I don't know, 191 00:11:17,650 --> 00:11:20,540 like Mexican or Canadian or any kind of law firm. 192 00:11:20,550 --> 00:11:26,090 Sabra and day fire the the the usually mid level associate so 193 00:11:26,100 --> 00:11:29,040 they can become friends and eventually get some business in 194 00:11:29,050 --> 00:11:31,030 the future. And then there's also, in a 195 00:11:31,040 --> 00:11:34,890 lesser extent, LM grads who don't belong to the previous 196 00:11:34,900 --> 00:11:38,370 groups, but they have some specific background that is 197 00:11:38,460 --> 00:11:40,710 attracted to this use lawful strike. 198 00:11:40,900 --> 00:11:42,720 So please contribute whenever you want. 199 00:11:42,820 --> 00:11:47,850 So if you are an alien working at a very big firm or a very big 200 00:11:47,860 --> 00:11:52,350 company in your home country, you can ask your supervisors, 201 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,350 partners or the general counsel to recommend you to a use law 202 00:11:56,360 --> 00:12:00,710 firm they usually work with. However, if you do that and you 203 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,670 actually works, you will be kind of in depth with your supervisor 204 00:12:05,810 --> 00:12:08,460 and maybe you will be inclined to return to your previous job 205 00:12:08,470 --> 00:12:12,040 after working in the US. However, you work at a big 206 00:12:12,050 --> 00:12:14,840 company or a big firm in your home country and you don't wanna 207 00:12:14,850 --> 00:12:19,680 go back there after the 11. You can try finding a job on 208 00:12:19,690 --> 00:12:22,960 your own. Maybe a useful will be happy to 209 00:12:22,970 --> 00:12:25,960 have you because they think you have a great background and you 210 00:12:25,970 --> 00:12:28,780 will eventually return to your home country and you will land 211 00:12:28,790 --> 00:12:32,550 the great job and that can potentially in the future lead 212 00:12:32,650 --> 00:12:37,140 to new business for the US fair. Whatever you you finish up, you 213 00:12:37,150 --> 00:12:40,720 end up working right in house Rd. a local funeral. 214 00:12:40,950 --> 00:12:46,890 So they they think the bear and well, however, if you don't work 215 00:12:46,940 --> 00:12:50,430 at a big company in your home country or a big firm, it's 216 00:12:50,490 --> 00:12:52,690 usually way more complicated to land the job. 217 00:12:52,740 --> 00:12:56,570 But you need to figure out what in your background can make you 218 00:12:56,580 --> 00:13:00,130 useful to you as sprints, right? Maybe you have experience in a 219 00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:04,350 specific industry like the mining industry, oil and gas, 220 00:13:04,520 --> 00:13:08,490 aviation, etcetera. Maybe you have skills that are 221 00:13:08,580 --> 00:13:11,950 in demand at that specific point in the in a particular firm. 222 00:13:12,140 --> 00:13:16,290 For instance, if there's a an international dispute, sperm 223 00:13:16,340 --> 00:13:20,150 doing a lot of work in Latin America, maybe at that point, 224 00:13:20,260 --> 00:13:23,310 maybe they wouldn't be interested in hiring people who 225 00:13:23,320 --> 00:13:27,010 speak Spanish, who know the domestic law of a particular 226 00:13:27,020 --> 00:13:31,070 country in America, people who have a particular nationality. 227 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,970 So in different points of time, different people can be more 228 00:13:34,980 --> 00:13:37,490 demand. So what do you need to do as an 229 00:13:37,500 --> 00:13:42,070 LPN student or grab? You need to to find out which 230 00:13:42,080 --> 00:13:44,550 law firms will be more interested in hiring someone 231 00:13:44,560 --> 00:13:47,070 with your backpack and, and, and how do you do that? 232 00:13:47,140 --> 00:13:50,350 Well, I mean, there's no recipe, but you can bring since you can 233 00:13:50,360 --> 00:13:54,230 go online and Google like U.S. law firm rankings. 234 00:13:54,240 --> 00:13:56,410 And then you can see a ranking of big law firms. 235 00:13:56,520 --> 00:13:59,150 And then you can choose whatever law firm you want. 236 00:13:59,640 --> 00:14:03,360 You want to try first and type the name of the law firm and 237 00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:07,080 then add Latin America practice, for instance, wedding case Latin 238 00:14:07,090 --> 00:14:11,370 Americans or any And then you'll see if there's actually a Latin 239 00:14:11,380 --> 00:14:15,430 America like this or at Europe or Asia or Africa. 240 00:14:15,600 --> 00:14:19,990 You name it and you'll find out if they have actually a lot of 241 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:23,850 things that's going on in your region or your country and also 242 00:14:24,090 --> 00:14:26,980 the name of the partners, the name of the senior associates 243 00:14:26,990 --> 00:14:31,340 and and you can actually see which lovers are having a lot of 244 00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:34,300 business in in your region. And then you you can reach out 245 00:14:34,310 --> 00:14:37,260 to that practically. But now you will do so with a 246 00:14:37,270 --> 00:14:41,430 more laser focused in which law firms actually will be more 247 00:14:41,440 --> 00:14:44,760 likely to hireright, they didn't do that, but actually the day, 248 00:14:44,930 --> 00:14:48,790 but I think that will be very helpful for students to try to 249 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,490 don't waste time, right. So I guess yeah, your turn of. 250 00:14:52,910 --> 00:14:56,040 All right, so well, I I think I want to say something really 251 00:14:56,050 --> 00:15:01,120 quickly that we are obviously as as good lawyers and as a forever 252 00:15:01,130 --> 00:15:04,460 disclaimer for the podcast. This is not legal advice when we 253 00:15:04,470 --> 00:15:07,140 talk about immigration here is just so we can talk about a few 254 00:15:07,210 --> 00:15:10,300 educational options. But I really like what you said, 255 00:15:10,590 --> 00:15:13,530 first see the different options and see how much of A hassle it 256 00:15:13,540 --> 00:15:16,690 will be for the firm to keep you around if they do have an 257 00:15:16,700 --> 00:15:19,330 interest in doing that. And then it's interesting to 258 00:15:19,340 --> 00:15:22,740 know that because maybe you have to advocate for your case when 259 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:25,090 if you do get an interview and they'll be like, oh, it's going 260 00:15:25,100 --> 00:15:27,810 to be really hard to hire you because of immigration purposes, 261 00:15:27,880 --> 00:15:30,710 then you already know how the process works and how 262 00:15:30,720 --> 00:15:33,290 straightforward it is. So I really like that. 263 00:15:33,340 --> 00:15:37,330 But then I like what you just explained of like, maybe if you 264 00:15:37,340 --> 00:15:40,200 have a specific skill or if you have something that the firm 265 00:15:40,210 --> 00:15:43,890 does a lot, that's how you would really connect to the firm in 266 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,870 many ways. And I find that to be very 267 00:15:46,880 --> 00:15:48,400 interesting. And then you also mentioned 268 00:15:48,410 --> 00:15:51,770 about your experience on, you know, working in tax law back 269 00:15:51,780 --> 00:15:55,270 home in Mexico right now, having to working in, you know, a tax 270 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:57,600 research about Mexico in your firm. 271 00:15:57,610 --> 00:16:00,960 So it really shows the value of having this foreign associates. 272 00:16:01,110 --> 00:16:03,300 And I find it very interesting that you explained a little bit 273 00:16:03,310 --> 00:16:06,480 of the social say like politics of this programs, right, and how 274 00:16:06,490 --> 00:16:09,220 the firms maintain those relationships alive, which which 275 00:16:09,230 --> 00:16:12,200 is incredible, honestly. And I'd, I'd love to hear you 276 00:16:12,210 --> 00:16:15,820 know, a little more about as you kind of learned about all of 277 00:16:15,830 --> 00:16:17,580 these experiences and possibilities. 278 00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:21,060 Did you also ended up, you know, bringing touch with people who 279 00:16:21,070 --> 00:16:24,080 were fellows in other offices and, and heard a little bit 280 00:16:24,090 --> 00:16:26,920 about their experience as you went throughout yours? 281 00:16:26,930 --> 00:16:29,620 And then we can go on and talk a little more about about your 282 00:16:29,630 --> 00:16:32,040 experience with LinkedIn, but I have a specific question for 283 00:16:32,050 --> 00:16:33,160 that after. Course. 284 00:16:33,170 --> 00:16:34,430 Yeah, happy. To check. 285 00:16:34,440 --> 00:16:38,290 On that too, yeah. So when I was applying to the 286 00:16:38,600 --> 00:16:42,750 program, so was in touch with LLM alumni from Latin America. 287 00:16:42,920 --> 00:16:46,350 So I end up meeting a guy from Mexico who went to use Chicago 288 00:16:46,360 --> 00:16:48,990 as well. And then he landed this 289 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:51,490 fellowship position of case a year before me. 290 00:16:51,500 --> 00:16:54,370 So he talked to me about about it at a didn't know. 291 00:16:54,460 --> 00:16:58,470 I didn't know it existed. It was very useful to to network 292 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:01,310 with people working in the US a year before me, right? 293 00:17:01,400 --> 00:17:05,210 And yes, other classmates from Chicago and then landed similar 294 00:17:05,220 --> 00:17:08,910 positions in some in a few states, some landed permanent 295 00:17:08,920 --> 00:17:11,569 positions as well. So it's interesting to to know 296 00:17:11,640 --> 00:17:14,710 the differences, right? So these positions are usually 297 00:17:14,760 --> 00:17:16,990 one year, but they're not all equal. 298 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:20,369 Some positions pay more, some of the points pay more. 299 00:17:20,500 --> 00:17:23,319 Other law firms are more demanding, whether it offers 300 00:17:23,329 --> 00:17:26,599 aren't really there's not that many much more to do. 301 00:17:26,609 --> 00:17:30,380 At some point, some law firms ask you to do stuff, which is 302 00:17:30,390 --> 00:17:34,200 very challenging, while others is like a pretty first year 303 00:17:34,350 --> 00:17:37,260 basic stuff you were doing like a bunch of years ago back in 304 00:17:37,270 --> 00:17:40,800 your country. So it's really hard to to know. 305 00:17:40,870 --> 00:17:43,700 I mean, you cannot get picky right? 306 00:17:43,710 --> 00:17:46,970 If you get up, if you're lucky to get a position, you usually 307 00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:48,920 take it right. But if you are in a position 308 00:17:48,970 --> 00:17:51,880 buried two people do to actually choose from different programs. 309 00:17:51,950 --> 00:17:56,000 It seems it's very useful to talk to people to understand how 310 00:17:56,010 --> 00:17:58,960 much are you getting paid? How much is are you paying on 311 00:17:58,970 --> 00:18:00,850 taxes? How expensive is still living in 312 00:18:00,860 --> 00:18:03,340 that country? What's the how demanding is a 313 00:18:03,350 --> 00:18:05,480 job? How many hours you put into and 314 00:18:05,490 --> 00:18:08,900 how's the work environment? And in my case, it was a 315 00:18:08,940 --> 00:18:11,880 fantastic experience people. I moved from Chicago to BC. 316 00:18:11,890 --> 00:18:14,160 I loved it. I loved the work, I love the 317 00:18:14,170 --> 00:18:16,920 colleagues, I love the firm. You know, I will really miss 318 00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:20,960 this, which was a long time goal to me and I will. 319 00:18:20,970 --> 00:18:24,010 I don't know, I have mixed feelings there, but it's coming 320 00:18:24,020 --> 00:18:26,150 to an end. Yeah, yeah, I don't know. 321 00:18:26,440 --> 00:18:28,150 I kind of. I don't know if I'm missing 322 00:18:28,160 --> 00:18:29,690 something. But no, that was great. 323 00:18:29,700 --> 00:18:33,450 It was, it was super cool that that the networking aspect of it 324 00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:36,210 also played their role and finding this position and 325 00:18:36,220 --> 00:18:38,720 learning that this even exists in the 1st place. 326 00:18:38,820 --> 00:18:40,890 I think that's a very important point. 327 00:18:40,900 --> 00:18:43,890 You don't, it's hard to think about a specific strategy if you 328 00:18:43,900 --> 00:18:46,090 don't even know those possibilities exist. 329 00:18:46,220 --> 00:18:48,730 So I think that's a, that's a great starting point. 330 00:18:48,800 --> 00:18:50,810 And LLM programs are nine months long. 331 00:18:50,820 --> 00:18:54,340 So it's, you know what, what if you're on time? 332 00:18:54,350 --> 00:18:56,530 You're, you're, you're, you're already late. 333 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,630 You got to be like 15 minutes earlier to your appointment to, 334 00:19:00,640 --> 00:19:04,610 to actually, you know, I saw the Brazilian guys, they already 335 00:19:04,620 --> 00:19:09,560 knew how the US law firm market, how to play the game. 336 00:19:09,670 --> 00:19:13,120 And I wasn't familiar with that. Yeah, it's important to to 337 00:19:13,130 --> 00:19:16,350 understand how it works, how the job per works, how the 338 00:19:16,360 --> 00:19:19,720 networking works. And and you don't learn that in. 339 00:19:20,050 --> 00:19:23,540 No, I, I can definitely see how this kind of information usually 340 00:19:23,550 --> 00:19:26,360 stays siloed thing in some specific places. 341 00:19:26,430 --> 00:19:29,100 And it's interesting because you can't blame those who want to 342 00:19:29,110 --> 00:19:32,480 kind of keep it among themselves or you would have to go to then 343 00:19:32,490 --> 00:19:35,200 to talk about it. And then it keeps this kind of 344 00:19:35,210 --> 00:19:37,180 opportunity in a in a select few ends. 345 00:19:37,190 --> 00:19:40,920 So I love what is happening. You know, you know. 346 00:19:40,930 --> 00:19:44,800 Way I, I try to use my podcast as well as a tool for people, 347 00:19:44,870 --> 00:19:48,180 you know a lot in Canada and then in the US as well, but you 348 00:19:48,230 --> 00:19:50,560 really know about the possibilities, right? 349 00:19:50,610 --> 00:19:53,350 Because once you know that that's even possible, you know, 350 00:19:53,360 --> 00:19:56,690 the name of what you look for, then you have, you know, so many 351 00:19:56,700 --> 00:20:00,010 resources to go after, but before that, it's really tricky 352 00:20:00,020 --> 00:20:01,910 to even know things are possible. 353 00:20:01,920 --> 00:20:04,370 So I really appreciate you bringing that up. 354 00:20:04,460 --> 00:20:07,090 And then I, I'd love to go on another topic. 355 00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:10,890 So you've been writing in Spanish on LinkedIn or in 356 00:20:10,900 --> 00:20:14,560 English as well about LM's careers fellowships. 357 00:20:14,570 --> 00:20:17,150 And it's been really interesting to follow what you've been 358 00:20:17,160 --> 00:20:20,870 putting there, be it, you know, numerical statistics or just 359 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:22,920 really the thoughts you've been sharing out there. 360 00:20:23,040 --> 00:20:26,470 And I'd love to hear how did you decide to start that? 361 00:20:26,720 --> 00:20:30,040 I look up to you too, because you always you also put a lot of 362 00:20:30,050 --> 00:20:32,530 time into this. You know, at the beginning I 363 00:20:32,540 --> 00:20:36,290 started doing this after the 11 more than the regular basis and 364 00:20:36,300 --> 00:20:39,820 I first started posting about forward this issues and 365 00:20:39,930 --> 00:20:43,740 statutory amendments in. I quickly realized that nobody 366 00:20:43,750 --> 00:20:46,380 cared about that. I always had like crickets in. 367 00:20:46,390 --> 00:20:50,540 Response SO. I started posting about my LM 368 00:20:50,550 --> 00:20:54,600 experience and some thoughts and I quickly realized there was an 369 00:20:54,610 --> 00:20:57,850 audience for that. So it was I started posting more 370 00:20:57,860 --> 00:21:01,280 regularly about that and I didn't sit for the bar. 371 00:21:01,510 --> 00:21:04,580 So I had more time during the summer before starting my 372 00:21:04,690 --> 00:21:07,140 position at the firm. So I did some research and 373 00:21:07,150 --> 00:21:10,820 numbers and all that and in that worked well and I decided to do 374 00:21:10,830 --> 00:21:13,260 it throughout the year for a couple of reasons. 375 00:21:13,310 --> 00:21:17,790 First, I wanted to to build a network of people who were more 376 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:23,010 likely to answer me a call or respond my messages if there was 377 00:21:23,020 --> 00:21:26,240 any business development opportunity that arose. 378 00:21:26,340 --> 00:21:29,990 So when I was working out, when I joined the firm, then I'm I'm, 379 00:21:30,040 --> 00:21:32,460 I'm on parental leave now. That's why I talk like in the 380 00:21:32,470 --> 00:21:34,370 past when I was working. So. 381 00:21:34,440 --> 00:21:39,550 Whenever there was a dispute arising in Latin America, I, I 382 00:21:39,560 --> 00:21:43,270 always check if I had any contact, any people I knew had 383 00:21:43,360 --> 00:21:47,210 exchanged some messages via LinkedIn working at that company 384 00:21:47,280 --> 00:21:49,870 in, in Uruguay, New Mexico, children, whatever. 385 00:21:49,920 --> 00:21:55,010 And if I did, I proactively mention that to my supervisors, 386 00:21:55,020 --> 00:21:57,910 you know, like I know, I know someone working in that firm, 387 00:21:57,920 --> 00:22:00,290 you've been in touch. Maybe we can reach out to them 388 00:22:00,300 --> 00:22:03,630 to try to, to figure out if we can be their council eventually. 389 00:22:03,640 --> 00:22:07,960 I mean, that's a very long shot, but I think that was the, the 390 00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:11,140 idea to try to, to make some friends around the way along the 391 00:22:11,150 --> 00:22:12,900 way. Well, every time I post 392 00:22:12,910 --> 00:22:15,970 something on LinkedIn, if someone likes it or comment or 393 00:22:15,980 --> 00:22:19,260 whatever, I send them a connection request and the start 394 00:22:19,270 --> 00:22:23,300 of conversation in many of those new connections want to speak 395 00:22:23,310 --> 00:22:25,400 about LPN programs or colleges in the US. 396 00:22:25,550 --> 00:22:29,780 And I talked to as many as I can and, and just hope for the best. 397 00:22:29,790 --> 00:22:33,470 And eventually it will lead to a friendship or a business 398 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,220 opportunity. Or whatever. 399 00:22:35,350 --> 00:22:38,960 And also I do this because I, I know this is temporary, right? 400 00:22:38,970 --> 00:22:42,880 Like my position, I'm, I'm more popular now that I'm at a 401 00:22:42,890 --> 00:22:46,260 wedding case than than before. So I'm trying to build a network 402 00:22:46,270 --> 00:22:53,830 at this point in courtesy something if you can and if, if 403 00:22:53,840 --> 00:22:58,510 I can build a personal brand, a personal brand now and then that 404 00:22:58,520 --> 00:23:01,270 can bring me to new business opportunities in the future. 405 00:23:01,330 --> 00:23:05,800 I want to live back in Mexico where I'm from in Chihuahua and 406 00:23:05,810 --> 00:23:08,190 there's not a big legal hub there. 407 00:23:08,260 --> 00:23:10,950 So I'm hoping that it will be network. 408 00:23:10,960 --> 00:23:15,210 I can work remotely for a company or maybe build something 409 00:23:15,220 --> 00:23:18,370 from Chihuahua that doesn't limit to the city and based they 410 00:23:18,380 --> 00:23:21,540 can be a nation wide business or international business or 411 00:23:21,550 --> 00:23:23,390 whatever. Last but not least, you know, 412 00:23:23,400 --> 00:23:27,190 meaning people in LinkedIn such as yourself and getting to know 413 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,340 people with different walks of life helps you spot new 414 00:23:30,350 --> 00:23:33,710 opportunities. So that's the that's my idea and 415 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,740 hopefully fingers crossed it will work at some eventually 416 00:23:36,930 --> 00:23:39,140 because now I discussed this with my wife a lot. 417 00:23:39,230 --> 00:23:42,600 I put a little time into this, but it gets also it's an 418 00:23:42,610 --> 00:23:46,080 addiction at some point as well. Absolutely, absolutely. 419 00:23:46,130 --> 00:23:48,860 It's, it's interesting, you know, the, the podcast for, for 420 00:23:48,870 --> 00:23:51,300 a long time and it's chewing a in a realistic way. 421 00:23:51,310 --> 00:23:54,720 It is just is a hobby, right? So it's just being such an 422 00:23:54,730 --> 00:23:57,840 interesting thing to do. I just enjoy talking to people 423 00:23:57,850 --> 00:24:00,920 and just having the opportunity to do these and, and share it 424 00:24:00,930 --> 00:24:02,580 out. I've I've talked with a few 425 00:24:02,590 --> 00:24:05,480 people where I mentioned that there was a few goals of mine 426 00:24:05,490 --> 00:24:08,540 related to these helping me to talk to other people, helping me 427 00:24:08,550 --> 00:24:11,820 to keep consistent and networking and and so forth. 428 00:24:11,870 --> 00:24:14,860 But it really is that I noticed I was having lots of really 429 00:24:14,870 --> 00:24:18,060 interesting conversations and then I didn't have a way to 430 00:24:18,070 --> 00:24:21,580 refer back to those conversations as well as some 431 00:24:21,590 --> 00:24:24,540 conversations just felt too good not to be shared. 432 00:24:24,650 --> 00:24:27,740 So that's where, you know, the whole promise premise of 433 00:24:27,750 --> 00:24:30,920 starting a podcast started. And, and I totally see what 434 00:24:30,930 --> 00:24:33,150 you're saying there. And it really becomes an 435 00:24:33,160 --> 00:24:35,730 addiction in a way. When we talked about, you know, 436 00:24:35,790 --> 00:24:38,280 these, these possibilities and fellowships and all of that. 437 00:24:38,290 --> 00:24:42,270 I, I ran all these different searches using all the tools I 438 00:24:42,280 --> 00:24:46,400 know to see if I could, you know, come up with the ultimate 439 00:24:46,410 --> 00:24:50,200 list of like the 100 AM law firms that have those kinds of 440 00:24:50,210 --> 00:24:52,000 programs. And, you know, it's, it's just 441 00:24:52,010 --> 00:24:54,820 the kind of thing that really, it's just interesting to see 442 00:24:54,830 --> 00:24:57,960 what's going on out there in the world and also the possibilities 443 00:24:57,970 --> 00:25:00,200 and share some good stuff with people out there. 444 00:25:00,210 --> 00:25:02,130 So I, I really shared that passion. 445 00:25:02,140 --> 00:25:05,700 No way. I love that your your podcast 446 00:25:05,710 --> 00:25:08,750 has evolved from studying studying law and now practicing 447 00:25:08,760 --> 00:25:10,700 law as well. That's absolutely right. 448 00:25:10,710 --> 00:25:12,880 That's absolutely right. It has, It really has. 449 00:25:12,890 --> 00:25:15,040 It's funny. I started interviewing people by 450 00:25:15,050 --> 00:25:17,300 asking, how do you become a lawyer in your country? 451 00:25:17,310 --> 00:25:20,440 So I had at some point talked with, you know, 14 people. 452 00:25:20,530 --> 00:25:22,480 It was part of a law school project. 453 00:25:22,490 --> 00:25:25,460 So I would be asking you questions in English, 454 00:25:25,530 --> 00:25:29,240 translating my question to Portuguese, and then I would 455 00:25:29,250 --> 00:25:31,960 hear your answer and translate your answer to Portuguese right 456 00:25:31,970 --> 00:25:34,040 after that. So it was quite the process. 457 00:25:34,050 --> 00:25:36,220 By the end of the recording, I was so exhausted. 458 00:25:36,630 --> 00:25:40,520 And soon I learned that the audience that was listening to 459 00:25:40,530 --> 00:25:42,720 me was mostly one that could understand English. 460 00:25:42,730 --> 00:25:45,040 So there was no need to actually be translating it. 461 00:25:45,330 --> 00:25:48,300 So what it took off that wouldn't really like it took off 462 00:25:48,310 --> 00:25:50,160 and and I felt like I should continue on. 463 00:25:50,290 --> 00:25:53,780 I decided to continue in English only and it's been it's been 464 00:25:53,790 --> 00:25:57,720 much easier in a way. As as you said, I'm, I'm posting 465 00:25:57,830 --> 00:26:01,260 mostly in Spanish because I thought it was there, there was 466 00:26:01,270 --> 00:26:04,580 a big audience, but I don't know, I always think it at some 467 00:26:04,590 --> 00:26:07,340 point maybe I should switch to English to try to land the 468 00:26:07,350 --> 00:26:08,860 bigger audience. I'll think about that. 469 00:26:08,870 --> 00:26:11,880 And now that you said now that you share your process and it's 470 00:26:11,890 --> 00:26:12,700 interesting. Thanks. 471 00:26:12,710 --> 00:26:15,960 Claudia yeah, I mean, how is the, the good thing is to run 472 00:26:15,970 --> 00:26:18,720 some testing, right. Sometimes even though your 473 00:26:18,730 --> 00:26:22,160 audience might be able to read it in Spanish, they they might 474 00:26:22,170 --> 00:26:26,060 prefer to to engage in stuff that that is in Spanish instead 475 00:26:26,070 --> 00:26:28,590 of English as well. So yeah, there's, there's lots 476 00:26:28,600 --> 00:26:31,450 you to see, but yeah, it's, it's definitely a possibility. 477 00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:34,830 And before I get to, to sidetrack here, I, I thought I'd 478 00:26:34,840 --> 00:26:37,850 ask you. So for those lawyers who are now 479 00:26:37,860 --> 00:26:41,860 thinking or preparing to do an LM in the US or to continue 480 00:26:41,870 --> 00:26:45,190 their careers, I thought I'd ask you if you have a couple of tips 481 00:26:45,460 --> 00:26:49,090 and strategies that what, what could be done to improve your 482 00:26:49,100 --> 00:26:53,230 possibilities and to really maximize those chances of that 483 00:26:53,240 --> 00:26:55,230 experience being the best they can be. 484 00:26:55,290 --> 00:26:59,250 And if anything, at least that people can make educated choices 485 00:26:59,260 --> 00:27:02,250 so they know what's possible and available to them. 486 00:27:03,010 --> 00:27:07,610 You were thinking about doing an LPN in your still home country. 487 00:27:07,820 --> 00:27:11,800 I'll suggest you try to land a job in one of the biggest fears 488 00:27:11,810 --> 00:27:14,610 in your country or one of the biggest companies in in your 489 00:27:14,620 --> 00:27:17,310 country. I will I will really maximize 490 00:27:17,320 --> 00:27:20,370 your chances of landing a job in the in the future. 491 00:27:20,420 --> 00:27:23,430 So if you are still on time to do that, I will highly suggest 492 00:27:23,620 --> 00:27:25,590 doing that. But if you're not, if you're 493 00:27:25,680 --> 00:27:29,230 already applying to LLM programs and already studying loan 494 00:27:29,240 --> 00:27:34,070 program, I will suggest not to focus so much on your grades. 495 00:27:35,370 --> 00:27:39,090 And it's I mean, it's it's complicated because you know you 496 00:27:39,150 --> 00:27:41,700 as an online student, the academic students, right? 497 00:27:41,770 --> 00:27:45,400 You want to learn about, but you also need to realize you were 498 00:27:45,410 --> 00:27:48,180 London land the job and you don't and you you don't have it 499 00:27:48,190 --> 00:27:50,760 lined up. You need to realize that no one 500 00:27:50,770 --> 00:27:55,680 fails in almost no one. So you don't need to like to 501 00:27:55,750 --> 00:27:58,880 spend all your time started with and you need to spend more time 502 00:27:58,890 --> 00:28:02,730 in networking. So I would suggest to attend all 503 00:28:02,740 --> 00:28:09,370 this Washington arbitration week in conference on a indicate any 504 00:28:09,380 --> 00:28:12,610 kind of matters, right? So if you go to happy hours and 505 00:28:12,620 --> 00:28:16,820 you go to lunch tiles and you spend time meeting people, I I 506 00:28:16,830 --> 00:28:20,470 think that will be a better use of time that hitting the books 507 00:28:20,480 --> 00:28:23,390 in the in the library. However, there's not much you 508 00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,570 can do to land the job in the US while you're studying LPN 509 00:28:27,580 --> 00:28:30,550 program if you don't have any background that is interesting 510 00:28:30,560 --> 00:28:33,550 for the law firms, right? So, as I said, trying to land a 511 00:28:33,560 --> 00:28:36,370 job in your home country in a big law firm or in a big company 512 00:28:36,380 --> 00:28:39,610 will be way more important that whatever you do during your 513 00:28:39,620 --> 00:28:42,580 land. You can, you can even see people 514 00:28:42,590 --> 00:28:45,250 landing in this positions, this foreign trade positions who 515 00:28:45,260 --> 00:28:48,230 don't even hold an elephant diploma with. 516 00:28:48,440 --> 00:28:53,060 So you see what's what's more important your your background, 517 00:28:53,170 --> 00:28:56,800 where you work, or if you earn the most fancy. 518 00:28:56,870 --> 00:28:59,380 Ellen and amazing. Well, thank you. 519 00:28:59,390 --> 00:29:02,080 Thank you really so much, Carlos, for taking the time to 520 00:29:02,190 --> 00:29:05,570 to share your, your thoughts and your experience with this very, 521 00:29:05,580 --> 00:29:08,520 very interesting topic. I appreciate you being in the 522 00:29:08,530 --> 00:29:11,260 podcast today and I appreciate you all taking the time to 523 00:29:11,270 --> 00:29:16,330 listen to it. We experience to be here. 524 00:29:16,440 --> 00:29:19,970 I was very honored to get your mutation and hopefully we can 525 00:29:20,720 --> 00:29:23,490 have a a few more conversations in the. 526 00:29:23,870 --> 00:29:27,350 We absolutely, we absolutely will all right have have a good 527 00:29:27,360 --> 00:29:27,820 one.