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Welcome to studying law around 
the world I'm Claudio Claus in 

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each episode, I talk with 
lawyers, law students, and 

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professors from different parts 
of the world to talk about legal

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education, careers, and what the
profession looks like in real 

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life we talk about the hard 
parts, the surprises, and the 

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decisions that shaped their 
paths whether you're planning. 

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To study abroad. 
Thinking about working in 

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another legal system or just 
curious about how law works 

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around the world? 
This podcast is for you. 

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Today I have the opportunity to 
interview Jimmy O Deppe. 

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She is a lawyer in Canada and in
Nigeria, and today I'll be 

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talking with her to learn about 
her story, her practice, and her

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career. 
Thank you so much for taking the

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time to join us today. 
To start us off, I'd love to ask

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you if you could introduce 
yourself to our listeners. 

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Thanks Claudio, and it's really 
a pleasure to be on this podcast

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today. 
My name is Jimmy Odepa. 

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I, I'm a dual qualified lawyer. 
That means I was qualified in 

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Nigeria in 2004. 
I got called, I got called to 

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the bar in Nigeria in 2004 and 
in Canada in 2021. 

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I'm, I'm a business lawyer and 
what I tell my clients is that 

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I'm the lawyer that stays with 
him. 

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I work mostly with founders and 
startups and SME's actually. 

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And what I tell them is that I'm
the lawyer that stays with them 

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from the time they do they, they
incorporate. 

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I'm in the middle when they're 
signing contracts, drafting 

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contracts, reviewing contracts 
in amalgamating or buying 

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businesses and their lawyer in 
the middle. 

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And if they choose to sell 
eventually and that lawyer that 

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would be right there at the end 
if they want to sell the 

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corporation or or they want to 
wind couple dissolved and so on 

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that business lawyer. 
But I work mostly with founders 

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and startups in Canada. 
Yeah, pleased to be here. 

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Fantastic. 
And, and I saw you had a 

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wonderful career and, and 
studies and all of that. 

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So I'd love to hear a little bit
about your experiences or 

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decisions that you feel that 
have had the biggest impact to 

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lead you to where you are today.
And, and just to give you a 

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little context, a lot of our 
listeners here are early career 

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professionals, people just 
leaving law school. 

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So we always love to, to bring a
little bit of a perspective that

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you know what, what kinds of 
things helped you to take those 

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those big decisions to take 
those lips. 

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A lot of our listeners are 
internationally trained lawyers 

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as well, starting a career in a 
new country. 

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So I'd love to hear your take. 
Thanks so much for giving that 

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context. 
I think what has got me to where

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I am today, I would say the 
biggest decision is the ability 

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to pivot at different 
intersections. 

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So I've, you know, I've been 
called to the bar almost over 20

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years ago, right? 
So a different someone. 

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I'm a career oriented person, 
but I'm also a very family 

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oriented person. 
So I got called to the bar 

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22,000 and 4 started my career 
and then got married and then 

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decided I wanted to raise my 
family right. 

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So I went into business, the 
business of law. 

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I had a, I had, I had a, a law 
firm back in Nigeria himself and

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I also had another business in 
the middle. 

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And then at a point I decided I 
wanted to do my masters in law. 

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This was like 10 years into 
after call, after my call to the

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bar in Nigeria, right? 
I decided I wanted to do it and 

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I wanted an international 1. 
So I came to the University of 

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Ottawa, you know, truly when I 
was living in Nigeria, people 

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asked me that are you OK? 
Because I was doing fine. 

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I was comfortable in Nigeria, 
but I knew that was just the 

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right decision for me for my 
career at that time. 

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And I, I made the move and 
that's why I said the ability 

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to, to just make a change when 
you know it's time. 

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You are In Sync with your career
and your whatever other thing 

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matters to you. 
If it's family, if it is 

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whatever matters to you, right, 
you are In Sync with it and you 

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can tell yourself different 
intersections in your life that 

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OK, this is the next move. 
I'm really settled and there's 

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I'm comfortable here, but I'm 
making this move, you know, So I

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think that's, I think that's, 
that's for me, that's been not 

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once, not twice, just that 
ability to pivot and say, OK, 

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it's time, it's time to move 
into this, you know? 

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Yeah, that has really been 
helpful. 

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Yeah, say, well, I really 
appreciate you sharing that. 

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And just like you said in the 
beginning, you work closely with

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a lot of founders with startups 
as well. 

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I'm curious to hear about what 
may be pushed you toward this 

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area of law and and not only why
you started, but why you chose 

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to stay. 
Yeah, that's a good question. 

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I thank you. 
So I started back in law school,

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my first law school, because now
I've had two law schools where 

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my my law school back in 
Nigeria, I was young and, you 

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know, very opinionated and all 
that. 

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And my best subject was criminal
law. 

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I loved criminal law and I loved
the law of evidence. 

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It was my best in law school. 
So I was so sure that once I 

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graduated, I was going to be a 
criminal law lawyer and 

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everybody knew that, look, 
you're going to be good. 

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And so after law school, I went 
straight into criminal law and 

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we didn't 11 any half years of 
being in criminal law in 

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Nigeria. 
I know it's different in Canada,

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but in Nigeria I knew it wasn't 
for me. 

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It wasn't for me. 
I actually was in a very 

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celebrated case back in Nigeria 
where there was, it was a 

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celebrated case, criminal law 
case and with senior lawyers. 

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And I didn't like the way it's 
panned out, that case. 

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And I knew I had to change. 
I knew, but I didn't know what 

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was in it for me, what where 
else to go. 

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I didn't. 
So mentors I didn't have any 

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mentor I didn't have, OK, where 
can I go? 

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I love criminal law is not 
working for me and all that, but

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I stumbled on corporate law. 
I would say I stumbled on 

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corporate law and stumbled on 
corporate law said you don't 

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have to go to court. 
You deal with your documents, 

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you deal with businesses. 
Like really? 

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Well, that's true. 
They showed us this and we had 

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business law classes in law 
school. 

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I can try this as a lawyer and I
tried it, join the business law 

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firm and that was it. 
I'm talking 18 years ago now and

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that was it. 
So I can say corporate law found

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me, but I had that experience, 
costs of what I thought was 

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going to be my life after law 
school, but then it wasn't what 

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I wanted. 
And then I changed the corporate

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law and I think that's what's 
kept me there. 

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Like I fell in love with it so 
much that even coming to Canada,

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I said I'm doing corporate 
business law. 

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I'm not going. 
I was so sure. 

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Yeah. 
So that's it for me. 

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Amazing. 
And and heading into a bit of 

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like a substantial law part of 
this interview as well. 

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I wanted to ask you, if a 
founder is just starting out 

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here in Canada, what are a few 
of the first steps that they 

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should focus on to avoid 
problems later? 

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Yeah, absolutely. 
In Canada, it's funny, it's the 

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same in Nigeria as well. 
But in Canada, I would always 

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tell founders start, have you 
know when they say foundation, 

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if the foundation of a house is 
not good or is destroyed, that 

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house is not going to stand. 
So it's the same with businesses

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or for founders, entrepreneurs 
or semis. 

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If you're starting starts with 
the right foundation and the 

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right foundation is 1. 
If you want to incorporate, for 

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example, some, some founders 
started as probably sole 

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proprietors and then they decide
before we start all this funding

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and bringing on investors, we 
want to incorporate. 

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Then they go do it themselves, 
which can be OK until when it's 

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not. 
So I say I, I, I don't say just 

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walk. 
It's always better to walk with 

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the lawyer when you want to do 
your incorporation. 

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Why Most founders within a year 
or two of starting that that 

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business or within a year or two
of incorporating, you want to 

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start doing things, you want to 
start raising funds. 

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So you don't want to do that 
without a proper structure. 

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There's a way you can 
incorporate where it's like 

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almost structureless and the 
only thing that corporation can 

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do for you is to work for you 
alone. 

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But the moment you want to bring
on investors, they start 

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realizing, oh, I didn't, I 
didn't set up this to 

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accommodate an investor or to 
accommodate, you know, so when 

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you work with the lawyer, that's
one of the things the lawyer 

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does for you. 
They they want to know what's 

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your plan for the future? 
Is this cooperation just for 

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just a shell corporation? 
Maybe you want to buy another 

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business with it, But if it's 
you're a founder and in the next

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two years you're going to bring 
on investor, you want to have 

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those classes of shares for 
investors that will accommodate 

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no matter the the number of 
investors you're bringing in. 

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So the lawyer will set it up for
you. 

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So that's one have that right 
foundation in incorporating. 

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Another thing will be have a 
shelters agreement or a founders

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agreement in place. 
The founders agreement. 

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There's nothing like we agreed 
via text message or via e-mail. 

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No, please put that and letter 
lawyer drafted for you, because 

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the way we see things, it's 
different from the way I mean, 

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whatever you put together 
online. 

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Most times, of course, there are
times it will work for you, but 

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most times. 
So you want to have that in 

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place. 
You and the co-founder. 

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If you have cofounder 
cofounders, you want to know 

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the, the, the you have to have 
to have a capitalization table, 

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right? 
Who owns what? 

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Do you own 10% of this 
corporation? 

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Do I own the remaining 90%? 
It has to be clearly set out 

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because these are these are the 
places where we meet with 

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Confucian when a founder and 
cofounder come maybe three years

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down the line, the business is 
already making good money. 

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And then you're like, oh, I own 
90% you wanted and then the the 

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coupon is saying no, I want 30% 
and you, but there's no written 

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agreement, right? 
So that's why you have to have a

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solid to have a a solid founders
agreement or a shareholder 

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agreement. 
You want to have that. 

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You also want to protect your 
intellectual property. 

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That is so key. 
It's very easy when you're just 

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starting out and probably you 
have a brilliant idea and then 

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you get a subcontract 
contractor, subcontractor to 

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work on it for you. 
What founders don't know is that

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that contractor can claim that 
IP eventually can say, OK, these

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IP belongs to me, I created it. 
But then if you assign the IP 

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properly right from the 
beginning, then it's clearly 

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stated. 
I would say, usually I would say

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let the corporation own the IP. 
So even if the contractor that 

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designed it is going it belongs 
to the corporation or if it's an

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employee that builds that type, 
it belongs to the corporation. 

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So I think those three things 
foundation incorporation, 

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founders agreement is solid 1 
and assign your IP will always 

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be the first set of things out 
there will see and found that 

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she looked out for. 
Very interesting. 

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Thank you for sharing that. 
Also, if I may ask another 

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question for, for you know this 
legal information here for, for 

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founders, but also, you know, 
looking ahead, what kind of 

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advice would you give to to 
founders who want to scale 

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without losing control or 
creating a big legal mess that 

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they cannot fix later beyond, 
you know, consult with a lawyer?

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Yeah, yeah. 
I think it's still going to be 

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back toward the things I just 
discussed. 

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You don't want problems down the
line. 

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Just set it up properly from the
beginning. 

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And if you don't do anything, 
make sure you have a founders 

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agreement. 
Have a founders agreement that 

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will save you mediation or 
litigation down the line because

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everything would be in the 
founders agreement and you can 

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have a clause, always have a 
clause that it can be reviewed. 

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The founders agreements can be 
reviewed in writing. 

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It can be amended in writing. 
So probably 2 years down the 

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line, you notice that there's 
some things that you didn't 

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cover in the founders agreement,
then you can amend it in writing

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is already there, right? 
Like we can amend this and I'll 

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say if there's just one thing, 
then to be the founders 

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agreement, have one in place. 
Perfect. 

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And Jimmy, in the beginning of 
our session today, I asked you 

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to mention a little bit about 
your experience. 

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What are things that that really
helped you to get to where you 

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are today and all of that. 
And going back to a little bit 

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of that conversation, I wanted 
to ask you if there is a few 

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pieces of advice that you would 
either give your younger self. 

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You know, I love that you 
mentioned how you really liked a

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course in law school, but then 
the practice so different and I 

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love how you experience with 
that and shows kind of out of 

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practice. 
So I'm wondering if there is any

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kind of advice you'd give a 
newer and early career 

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professional who are just 
starting out or maybe starting 

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for the second time here in 
Canada and really want to build 

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a meaningful and successful 
career. 

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Right, right. 
The only thing that comes to my 

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mind is intern, intern, intern, 
intern. 

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Like I even right from law 
school just started interning. 

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I've walked somewhere before in 
Canada, one of the, one of the 

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cities and I, I recall them 
having kids from high school 

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though, just come maybe like 3 
weeks and some of them will come

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to my office to discuss with me.
Like I really love criminology 

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and I love, you know, they're 
always very full of, I'm like, 

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yeah, why not try this? 
I mean, these are kids in high 

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school. 
I just thinking about, they're 

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not yet thinking about lawfully,
but they're thinking they love 

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some parts of law. 
So just by interning and being 

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in that space. 
And there was one I remember 

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after finishing summer with us, 
she said I'm not doing law. 

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She was sure so interning any 
opportunity you find intern if 

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you can intern in a big law firm
if you have that I whether I 

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it's not even a Canadian thing. 
I mean, I think practicing law 

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in multiple jurisdiction opens 
your eyes to some things that 

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this happens everywhere in the 
world. 

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So whether you're in Nigeria or 
you're in Canada or you're in 

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the US, if you practice first, 
you start your career in the big

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law from the what we call big 
law, it's kind of set you set 

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you up the things you, the kind 
of kind of things you learn, the

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kind of files you deal with and 
even that name, it's just so 

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helpful as your career 
progresses. 

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So definitely in turn, if you 
can intern in a big lot, do it. 

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If you can't, intern where you 
find and then work your way to 

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the top. 
But that's it. 

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That's yeah. 
I love that. 

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Really a lot of a focus on that 
practical experience and, and I 

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think that's so wise. 
Time and time again, I've 

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noticed that there's, there's a 
few courses that really interest

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me like constitutional law, but 
it turns out that it becomes a a

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little bit high, harder to be a 
constitutional lawyer. 

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So it's been interesting to see,
you know, have colleagues who 

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actually succeeded quite a bit 
in working for boutique firms 

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that basically are challenging 
the charter and challenging the 

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decisions made by the government
and all of that. 

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But it's, it's very much within 
a niche area compared to the 

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other areas of law where you 
have, you know, a more constant 

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flow of work and all of that. 
So it's just been very 

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interesting to to hear your 
advice. 

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I really appreciate you taking 
the time to sharing it with us 

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today. 
Thank you. 

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Thanks for having me. 
Absolutely, and thank you all 

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for tuning into today's episode 
and keep tuned for the next one.