1 00:00:12,870 --> 00:00:14,810 Welcome to studying Law Around the World. 2 00:00:15,010 --> 00:00:17,860 I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with 3 00:00:17,870 --> 00:00:20,840 lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts 4 00:00:20,850 --> 00:00:24,740 of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the 5 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:26,420 profession looks like in real life. 6 00:00:26,430 --> 00:00:28,680 We talk about the hard parts, the surprises. 7 00:00:28,690 --> 00:00:31,570 And the decisions that shaped their paths, whether you're 8 00:00:31,580 --> 00:00:32,780 planning. To study abroad. 9 00:00:32,870 --> 00:00:34,380 Thinking about working in another. 10 00:00:34,390 --> 00:00:37,940 Legal system or just curious about how law works around the 11 00:00:37,950 --> 00:00:39,000 world? This. 12 00:00:39,010 --> 00:00:45,160 Podcast is for you. If you're an internationally 13 00:00:45,170 --> 00:00:48,480 trained lawyer or law student working in or trying to break 14 00:00:48,490 --> 00:00:52,880 into an English speaking common law system, you know that legal 15 00:00:52,890 --> 00:00:56,300 writing is one of the biggest challenges and one of the most 16 00:00:56,310 --> 00:01:00,260 important skills to master. That's where Grammatica comes 17 00:01:00,270 --> 00:01:02,460 in. I'm Rebecca Lockwood, the 18 00:01:02,470 --> 00:01:05,310 lawyer, mediator, educator and founder of Grammatica 19 00:01:05,319 --> 00:01:08,780 International. We help lawyers and law students 20 00:01:08,790 --> 00:01:10,620 to write sharper. Speak. 21 00:01:10,630 --> 00:01:15,300 Clearer and land more interviews with on demand online courses, 22 00:01:15,350 --> 00:01:19,100 live workshops and one-on-one consulting designed just for 23 00:01:19,110 --> 00:01:21,980 legal professionals. I have worked with so many 24 00:01:21,990 --> 00:01:25,340 lawyers like you who are exceptionally smart, qualified 25 00:01:25,350 --> 00:01:28,640 and capable but need some guidance to really stand out in 26 00:01:28,650 --> 00:01:31,760 a competitive legal market. And I get it myself, having 27 00:01:31,770 --> 00:01:34,860 lived and worked in five countries during my 17 years in 28 00:01:34,870 --> 00:01:37,900 law and education. Whether you're looking to 29 00:01:37,910 --> 00:01:41,540 sharpen your writing skills generally, refresh your CD, or 30 00:01:41,550 --> 00:01:44,560 draft an application for a law program, Grammatica can help. 31 00:01:45,230 --> 00:01:53,110 Visit Grammatico to get started. Today I have the opportunity to 32 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:58,310 interview Doctor Daria Levinah. She is a fantastic professional 33 00:01:58,320 --> 00:02:02,070 that has a breadth of experience that is just so incredible to 34 00:02:02,080 --> 00:02:05,110 hear about. She's got the opportunity to 35 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:09,550 study and work in a journey that spends Russia, Germany, USA, 36 00:02:09,560 --> 00:02:12,170 Italy, so very, very international. 37 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,550 And she is a Harvard alum as well. 38 00:02:14,620 --> 00:02:17,150 Thank you so much for joining us today, Daria. 39 00:02:17,220 --> 00:02:18,760 Really appreciate you being here. 40 00:02:19,930 --> 00:02:23,260 Thank you so so much for having me that it's an absolute 41 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:26,860 pleasure to be here and do share what I know what the perspective 42 00:02:26,870 --> 00:02:29,260 elephants. I really appreciate it. 43 00:02:29,410 --> 00:02:33,300 And to start on today's conversation, I'd love for you 44 00:02:33,310 --> 00:02:35,580 to introduce yourself and also tell us. 45 00:02:35,590 --> 00:02:38,800 A little bit about what? Originally motivated you to 46 00:02:38,810 --> 00:02:42,600 pursue an LM and and how that has just really shaped 47 00:02:42,610 --> 00:02:46,700 everything you do these days. So I'm originally from Russia 48 00:02:46,750 --> 00:02:49,000 and I did my first law degree there. 49 00:02:49,070 --> 00:02:53,700 I worked there for a few years as well for a German law firm I 50 00:02:53,770 --> 00:02:55,840 like. I used to be an arbitration 51 00:02:55,910 --> 00:03:00,720 lawyer and after a few years of working in a firm, which I 52 00:03:00,730 --> 00:03:04,690 really, really liked because it wasn't me nice firm and a we had 53 00:03:04,700 --> 00:03:09,130 such an amazing team. But I just felt that I sort of 54 00:03:09,140 --> 00:03:12,330 reached the ceiling in terms of like the project that are 55 00:03:12,500 --> 00:03:16,770 projects that I've been working on and I didn't know what to do 56 00:03:16,860 --> 00:03:21,420 next professionally. And I've seen people around me 57 00:03:21,430 --> 00:03:25,660 like more senior professionals go do LM abroad. 58 00:03:25,670 --> 00:03:28,720 And I just thought that I wanted to try that as well. 59 00:03:28,790 --> 00:03:32,720 Like I, I felt like I've done a few shorter study abroad 60 00:03:32,730 --> 00:03:36,040 programs, like summer schools, for instance, I, I went to The 61 00:03:36,050 --> 00:03:39,420 Hague Academy to the Paris habituation, getting the fancy 62 00:03:39,430 --> 00:03:42,720 evaporation and stuff. Like I, I was able to secure 63 00:03:42,730 --> 00:03:46,480 scholarships for that. And it was, it was a lot of fun. 64 00:03:46,630 --> 00:03:50,500 But at some point it just felt that I wanted to pursue a longer 65 00:03:50,510 --> 00:03:54,680 program abroad and just have a taste of it and also and try to 66 00:03:54,690 --> 00:03:58,420 understand what to do next profession, like professionally. 67 00:03:58,430 --> 00:04:03,090 And I first applied to Europe. I applied to limits, the Masters 68 00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:06,100 International Dispute Settlement in Geneva and two schools in the 69 00:04:06,110 --> 00:04:11,690 UK and I had like my eyes set on Oxford because not just because 70 00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:15,190 of the title, but because they had their unusually 2 fully 71 00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,240 funded scholarships for people with my demographic parameters. 72 00:04:18,250 --> 00:04:19,730 And I thought that that was fantastic. 73 00:04:19,740 --> 00:04:23,630 But I didn't get into Oxford. I didn't get into Cambridge, and 74 00:04:23,640 --> 00:04:26,850 I got into mids Geneva with a full scholarship. 75 00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:29,550 But by that time I decided that I didn't want to do arbitration 76 00:04:29,560 --> 00:04:31,930 anymore. And so I declined those offers 77 00:04:31,940 --> 00:04:37,040 and reapplied to the US. And at that time I got into NYU 78 00:04:37,050 --> 00:04:41,210 and Harvard and I managed to secure funding, which was very 79 00:04:41,220 --> 00:04:46,420 hard, but sort of that that was the story behind my decision to 80 00:04:46,430 --> 00:04:53,100 pursue them. This episode of Studying War 81 00:04:53,110 --> 00:04:57,090 Around the World is proudly sponsored by ITL Prep from imant 82 00:04:57,140 --> 00:05:01,010 Exam Prep, the comprehensive resource designed specifically 83 00:05:01,080 --> 00:05:04,170 for internationally trained lawyers preparing for DMCA 84 00:05:04,180 --> 00:05:06,710 exams. We understand that the NCA 85 00:05:06,720 --> 00:05:08,930 accreditation journey can feel overwhelming. 86 00:05:09,040 --> 00:05:12,510 You can face many obstacles getting to success courses that 87 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:16,650 cost too much, offer too little, or leave you more confused than 88 00:05:16,660 --> 00:05:19,250 when you started. That's why imund Exam Prep 89 00:05:19,260 --> 00:05:23,170 created ITIL Prep, a smarter, more reliable way to succeed. 90 00:05:23,220 --> 00:05:26,710 Our module based self study courses and expert LED review 91 00:05:26,720 --> 00:05:29,590 sessions are designed. By actual law professors. 92 00:05:29,630 --> 00:05:33,630 Many of whom are Itls themselves or teach at international law 93 00:05:33,640 --> 00:05:36,030 schools. They know the Inca process, they 94 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:39,190 understand your journey, and they've built these courses to 95 00:05:39,200 --> 00:05:42,570 guide you clearly through the NCA syllabi, helping you gain 96 00:05:42,580 --> 00:05:46,390 the understanding you need to be at your best for success on your 97 00:05:46,400 --> 00:05:48,790 exams. With ITLL Prep, you'll gain 98 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:52,380 confidence and clarity, whether it's foundational concepts or 99 00:05:52,390 --> 00:05:54,930 your tackling specialized Canadian law topics. 100 00:05:55,320 --> 00:05:59,010 It's affordable, it's flexible, it's built with you in mind. 101 00:05:59,080 --> 00:06:01,830 And right now we're offering something special as an 102 00:06:01,840 --> 00:06:05,470 exclusive offer for the Studying Law Around the World podcast 103 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:09,490 listeners. ITIL Prep is offering 50% off 104 00:06:09,550 --> 00:06:12,530 all courses for the 1st 50 purchases. 105 00:06:12,580 --> 00:06:15,380 Simply use the promo code ITL 50. 106 00:06:15,460 --> 00:06:19,300 The checkout casebooks and other resources must be purchased 107 00:06:19,310 --> 00:06:23,380 separately. Visit imams Today, That's 108 00:06:23,430 --> 00:06:30,680 Edmond, and use promo code ITL 50 to claim your 50% discount on 109 00:06:30,730 --> 00:06:32,820 NCA exam preparation. Courses. 110 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,790 That's amazing. So you you've received some of 111 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,670 the most competitive scholarships and grants in the 112 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:41,610 world. Really. 113 00:06:41,680 --> 00:06:44,070 What are some kinds of things that you can share with our 114 00:06:44,180 --> 00:06:47,930 listeners here that's strong applicants tend to get right and 115 00:06:47,940 --> 00:06:50,430 also where they get many things wrong. 116 00:06:50,440 --> 00:06:52,930 I know you've worked with people helping them with those 117 00:06:52,940 --> 00:06:55,270 applications as well. So what are some thoughts you 118 00:06:55,280 --> 00:06:56,510 have on that? Oh yeah, I have. 119 00:06:56,520 --> 00:06:59,990 I have a lot of thoughts because it just, it really, really like 120 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:02,930 helping people with applications and it writes about it a lot. 121 00:07:02,940 --> 00:07:07,840 And I would say one of the mistakes is not understanding 122 00:07:07,850 --> 00:07:09,980 that when you write applications, especially when 123 00:07:09,990 --> 00:07:14,530 you write essays, regardless of whether you use AI tools or not, 124 00:07:14,620 --> 00:07:18,440 there are different stages. Like nobody sits down in front 125 00:07:18,450 --> 00:07:23,320 of the laptop and produces an amazing aside from scratch 126 00:07:23,330 --> 00:07:25,880 looking then hour. That just doesn't happen. 127 00:07:25,990 --> 00:07:29,740 And so like when I work with Llama applicants, helping them 128 00:07:29,790 --> 00:07:32,740 develop their LM applications, there, there is a lot that I 129 00:07:32,750 --> 00:07:35,700 help them do in terms of, for instance, analyzing their 130 00:07:35,710 --> 00:07:40,490 profile, talking to them about the experiences they have. 131 00:07:40,500 --> 00:07:43,580 They're meaningful to them and that shape them as lawyers and 132 00:07:43,590 --> 00:07:47,000 as professionals and working that into the application 133 00:07:47,010 --> 00:07:52,280 instead of just trying to squeeze a perfect essay from 134 00:07:52,350 --> 00:07:54,820 from the start. I would say that's that's the 135 00:07:54,830 --> 00:07:57,300 biggest. One well, thank you for sharing 136 00:07:57,310 --> 00:07:59,870 that. So as as you just said, you've 137 00:07:59,880 --> 00:08:04,160 helped other people just to apply to top LLM programs, but 138 00:08:04,170 --> 00:08:08,510 also to PhD programs, and maybe what's one piece of advice 139 00:08:08,520 --> 00:08:11,890 you'll find yourself given over and over again to students? 140 00:08:11,960 --> 00:08:15,230 Yeah. So I would actually develop this 141 00:08:15,240 --> 00:08:18,870 idea that I just talked about, about how we are presented with 142 00:08:18,880 --> 00:08:21,810 this view of writing that it's a linear process. 143 00:08:21,820 --> 00:08:25,310 And I think a lot of it comes from the movies. 144 00:08:25,320 --> 00:08:28,850 Because like when, when you see a movie and there is someone who 145 00:08:28,860 --> 00:08:34,730 is a writer who writes, like you see someone who, whose process 146 00:08:34,740 --> 00:08:38,770 is just that they, they sit down and then initially they are 147 00:08:38,780 --> 00:08:43,470 tortured and it doesn't come together, but then they just 148 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:47,130 write and it all comes together perfectly. 149 00:08:47,140 --> 00:08:50,590 And I don't know if they get recognition or something like 150 00:08:50,600 --> 00:08:52,910 that. And the reason this is how 151 00:08:52,920 --> 00:08:56,670 writing is presented in movies because like when you make a 152 00:08:56,680 --> 00:08:59,650 movie, you need to visualize something. 153 00:08:59,660 --> 00:09:02,810 And there is, there's a lot of in writing that you actually 154 00:09:02,820 --> 00:09:05,830 can't visualize. For instance, a load of writing 155 00:09:05,840 --> 00:09:10,470 for me happens when I first, like I had A and a session where 156 00:09:10,520 --> 00:09:14,050 I just was brainstorming, I was idea generating, but then I 157 00:09:14,060 --> 00:09:17,170 would go on a walk and a lot of my writing happens on walks. 158 00:09:17,180 --> 00:09:21,930 And so like something that I really recommend often, as you 159 00:09:21,940 --> 00:09:25,590 mentioned, this is the piece of advice I give over and over is 160 00:09:25,600 --> 00:09:29,430 that when you're working on, on your applications, your work 161 00:09:29,440 --> 00:09:32,330 essentially will be consistent of two types of work. 162 00:09:32,400 --> 00:09:35,230 One is focused work or focused writing. 163 00:09:35,300 --> 00:09:39,010 You will be sitting in front of the laptop or you will be taking 164 00:09:39,020 --> 00:09:42,310 notes, like on paper or whatever works for you. 165 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,450 And that's one part. But then there will be a lot of 166 00:09:45,460 --> 00:09:49,110 what is called diffuse thinking. And a lot of thinking will 167 00:09:49,120 --> 00:09:52,790 happen unexpectedly, like when you were queuing at a grocery 168 00:09:52,800 --> 00:09:55,830 store or when you were taking a walk or when you are talking to 169 00:09:55,840 --> 00:09:58,030 a friend. And I think it's really, really 170 00:09:58,040 --> 00:10:01,190 important to account for both because both are really, really 171 00:10:01,200 --> 00:10:04,050 important. And that that's just the, the, I 172 00:10:04,060 --> 00:10:09,570 think the most important piece of advice that I I give to LM 173 00:10:09,580 --> 00:10:12,470 and also PhD applicants. Fantastic, amazing. 174 00:10:12,540 --> 00:10:15,670 Another one of the topics that I'm sure you end up discussing a 175 00:10:15,680 --> 00:10:19,430 lot with people is is funding and negotiating offers. 176 00:10:19,500 --> 00:10:21,950 So I'm sure that's something that people feel nervous about 177 00:10:21,960 --> 00:10:26,230 about really. And when you raised $92,000 to 178 00:10:26,240 --> 00:10:29,990 attend Harvard, what helped you to approach that process with 179 00:10:30,000 --> 00:10:33,510 confidence? Yeah, I think, well, the primary 180 00:10:33,520 --> 00:10:39,530 element was that I was very lucky that I didn't now how 181 00:10:39,600 --> 00:10:43,280 American system of education worked, and it may sound naive 182 00:10:43,290 --> 00:10:47,270 and it was, but especially because I I did all those 183 00:10:47,280 --> 00:10:50,490 shorter study abroad trips in Europe and I always got a 184 00:10:50,500 --> 00:10:54,580 scholarship for that. I sort of like whenever someone 185 00:10:54,590 --> 00:10:58,670 told me, well, in the US you need a lot of money to study at 186 00:10:58,680 --> 00:11:02,070 a top university, I sort of discarded this because, I mean, 187 00:11:02,280 --> 00:11:05,090 I thought that if you work hard, you always get a scholarship 188 00:11:05,100 --> 00:11:06,650 because that's how it works for me. 189 00:11:06,900 --> 00:11:10,310 And I just didn't understand that the whole structure of how 190 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:12,510 education works in the US is very, very different. 191 00:11:12,620 --> 00:11:19,610 And what was really helpful was that I just look on the most 192 00:11:19,660 --> 00:11:24,650 fundamental ideological premise. I refuse the idea that education 193 00:11:24,660 --> 00:11:28,070 should accessibility of education should depend on 194 00:11:28,080 --> 00:11:31,870 socioeconomic circumstances. It is unfortunately, that we are 195 00:11:31,880 --> 00:11:35,290 conditioned to believe that we're too, except because most 196 00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:37,930 most economies in the world are capitalist. 197 00:11:37,980 --> 00:11:40,330 But I don't think it's OK. And I think it was really, 198 00:11:40,340 --> 00:11:43,230 really helpful for me to keep applying for scholarships and 199 00:11:43,240 --> 00:11:47,780 keep raising money because I just couldn't understand how the 200 00:11:47,790 --> 00:11:51,080 fact that I don't have reach parents could be limited to 201 00:11:51,090 --> 00:11:53,510 education. It just didn't work in my hand. 202 00:11:53,520 --> 00:12:00,860 And I think it was the single most helpful frame of mind that 203 00:12:00,870 --> 00:12:03,400 I had. And, and I just, I really, I 204 00:12:03,410 --> 00:12:07,140 really wanted to come across and to, to, to just pass it on to 205 00:12:07,150 --> 00:12:10,700 other people because I think one day we will probably live in a 206 00:12:10,710 --> 00:12:13,340 world where education is accessible. 207 00:12:13,410 --> 00:12:16,380 And if you have rich parents, you, yes, you reach parents will 208 00:12:16,390 --> 00:12:18,720 pay for that. But if you don't, you probably 209 00:12:18,730 --> 00:12:21,980 will get a scholarship because I think that's how it should work. 210 00:12:22,050 --> 00:12:25,200 And then something else that also really helped me was that 211 00:12:25,690 --> 00:12:29,060 I, I never stopped after getting a rejection. 212 00:12:29,130 --> 00:12:32,500 I used all of the rejections and failures as just as a 213 00:12:32,510 --> 00:12:35,180 redirection. And what I notice a lot of times 214 00:12:35,190 --> 00:12:39,430 is that people who are people who are not successful, they do 215 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:43,970 have strong potential, but they just they stop trying or they 216 00:12:43,980 --> 00:12:47,550 try less than people who turn out to be successful. 217 00:12:47,620 --> 00:12:49,810 That's all this did not a full picture. 218 00:12:49,860 --> 00:12:53,630 And obviously there are so many factors involved, but if there's 219 00:12:53,640 --> 00:13:00,170 one thing that I would like your pass on is that very often the 220 00:13:00,180 --> 00:13:03,700 difference between the success and failure is just the number 221 00:13:03,710 --> 00:13:07,600 of attempts, like smart attempts because you, you do, you do need 222 00:13:07,610 --> 00:13:12,580 to to evaluate what didn't work, what you could improve. 223 00:13:12,630 --> 00:13:15,060 But but in a nutshell, that that's it. 224 00:13:17,710 --> 00:13:20,930 You know, as we've been hearing from lawyers around the world on 225 00:13:20,940 --> 00:13:24,040 this show, one thing that's universal is the challenge of 226 00:13:24,050 --> 00:13:26,780 managing massive amounts of case materials. 227 00:13:26,830 --> 00:13:29,820 Whether you're dealing with witness statements in Sydney or 228 00:13:29,830 --> 00:13:34,200 reviewing contracts in Chicago, the volume can be overwhelming. 229 00:13:34,250 --> 00:13:38,120 That's why I wanted to tell you about Rev. Instead of analyzing 230 00:13:38,130 --> 00:13:42,400 documents one at a time, you upload everything to 1 workspace 231 00:13:42,470 --> 00:13:47,840 PDF's, audio recordings, video depositions, transcripts, Revs 232 00:13:47,850 --> 00:13:52,300 AI analyzes them altogether and spots connections you'd never 233 00:13:52,310 --> 00:13:55,760 catch working file by file. Every insight comes with 234 00:13:55,770 --> 00:13:59,060 clickable citations that take you right back to the source. 235 00:13:59,110 --> 00:14:02,090 So when the AI finds a contradiction between witness 236 00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:04,570 statements, you can verify it instantly. 237 00:14:04,620 --> 00:14:07,680 Whether you're a law student or practicing attorney building 238 00:14:07,690 --> 00:14:11,470 your international career, Rev Insights gives you that edge our 239 00:14:11,480 --> 00:14:14,980 guests always talk about. Check it out at rev.com. 240 00:14:19,330 --> 00:14:20,980 Amazing. Well, that was interesting. 241 00:14:20,990 --> 00:14:23,960 Thank you for sharing your your opinion, point of view on that 242 00:14:24,030 --> 00:14:26,680 and you've moved. From the law. 243 00:14:26,690 --> 00:14:30,580 Practice into academia and consulting after your experience 244 00:14:30,590 --> 00:14:32,670 at Harvard. So I'd love to hear a little 245 00:14:32,680 --> 00:14:34,620 more about about that transition. 246 00:14:34,690 --> 00:14:37,020 What helped you to make that transition? 247 00:14:37,070 --> 00:14:41,180 How did you know it was the next step for you and how have you 248 00:14:41,190 --> 00:14:42,800 enjoyed it? Sure. 249 00:14:42,890 --> 00:14:47,800 So I think I am a very well suited to pursuing projects that 250 00:14:47,870 --> 00:14:50,840 that require a lot of autonomy. I'm just, I'm very good with 251 00:14:50,850 --> 00:14:54,320 self direction and, and I really like when I have a large project 252 00:14:54,330 --> 00:14:57,820 that I can structure in a way that I want and then nobody 253 00:14:57,830 --> 00:15:01,130 bothers me. And academia and my own 254 00:15:01,140 --> 00:15:04,890 consultancy, they are very good, very natural avenues. 255 00:15:04,960 --> 00:15:08,140 We're realizing that because I've seen that a lot of people 256 00:15:08,150 --> 00:15:11,770 who start PHD's say then really, really struggle because they 257 00:15:11,780 --> 00:15:14,270 don't like that they need to solve direct. 258 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,010 They like having someone to tell them what to do. 259 00:15:17,060 --> 00:15:21,320 And that's just a different, there's a different, um, what 260 00:15:21,330 --> 00:15:24,340 it's called just a different way to operate in the world. 261 00:15:24,390 --> 00:15:26,290 And everybody is different. So it's, it's really, really 262 00:15:26,300 --> 00:15:29,600 important to account for that. But for me that this transition 263 00:15:29,610 --> 00:15:32,380 was primarily due to the fact that I just, I really like 264 00:15:32,390 --> 00:15:35,020 having my own projects and I learned a lot. 265 00:15:35,270 --> 00:15:39,560 But when I was working as a practicing attorney and, and 266 00:15:39,570 --> 00:15:44,300 that was incredibly valuable, but he was just, I felt that it 267 00:15:44,310 --> 00:15:47,610 limited me too much and what I wanted to pursue any, I couldn't 268 00:15:47,620 --> 00:15:50,490 also choose projects. For instance, there are topics 269 00:15:50,500 --> 00:15:53,020 that are really interesting for me that I want to pursue. 270 00:15:53,070 --> 00:15:56,580 Like when I did my PhD at the European University Institute in 271 00:15:56,590 --> 00:16:00,700 in Italy, I was really interested in the questions of 272 00:16:00,710 --> 00:16:03,880 court design and how one designs that are quartz. 273 00:16:03,930 --> 00:16:06,360 But if I were practicing attorney, I wouldn't just be 274 00:16:06,370 --> 00:16:09,780 able to choose what to work on. I would have clients and clients 275 00:16:09,790 --> 00:16:11,840 would tell me what their problems are and I would need to 276 00:16:11,850 --> 00:16:14,180 solve them. So that's a very different way 277 00:16:14,190 --> 00:16:15,820 to exist. Yeah, there's there's really 278 00:16:15,830 --> 00:16:18,440 there's just no right or wrong. It's just what what works for 279 00:16:18,450 --> 00:16:24,310 you and for me academia and owning my own consultancy or at 280 00:16:24,320 --> 00:16:28,630 the moment the best, the best way to realize what it like. 281 00:16:28,710 --> 00:16:32,390 Amazing looking at the global League education space today, 282 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:35,530 what trends do you think will be important for the next 283 00:16:35,540 --> 00:16:38,780 generation of lawyers? And this could be no advice for 284 00:16:38,840 --> 00:16:42,170 people who are thinking or considering going in an LM soon, 285 00:16:42,240 --> 00:16:44,810 or even these other thoughts that you might have in that 286 00:16:44,820 --> 00:16:46,930 sense as well. Yeah, absolutely. 287 00:16:46,940 --> 00:16:52,570 So my, my personal policy is to be aware of the trans, but not 288 00:16:52,580 --> 00:16:55,630 necessarily let them guide professional life choices in a 289 00:16:55,640 --> 00:17:00,190 sense that I don't think it's wise to fully depend on a trend 290 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:04,650 and to let it decide for you. But it's, but rather start with 291 00:17:04,720 --> 00:17:07,520 understanding what it is that you and you'd like to look like 292 00:17:07,530 --> 00:17:11,119 and, and see how, given what's happening in the world, you can 293 00:17:11,310 --> 00:17:13,819 realize that. But, but Speaking of broader 294 00:17:13,829 --> 00:17:16,839 trends, I think one of the things that I've been seeing 295 00:17:16,849 --> 00:17:21,280 recently is that that you previously people would only 296 00:17:21,290 --> 00:17:27,180 consider alarm programs in the, in the conventional West, in 297 00:17:27,190 --> 00:17:30,560 continental Europe or the UK or the US. 298 00:17:30,570 --> 00:17:35,340 And now the programs in in Southeast Asia, for instance, 299 00:17:35,350 --> 00:17:39,170 they are becoming more popular. And I think that's a really good 300 00:17:39,180 --> 00:17:45,940 trend because look, it's just people are moving from or seed 301 00:17:46,620 --> 00:17:50,890 superiority of the West and just embracing the diversity of the 302 00:17:50,900 --> 00:17:55,950 world and learning to appreciate all the variety that exists in 303 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:57,610 the world, including the legal world. 304 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:00,010 And I think that's a very welcome and development. 305 00:18:00,020 --> 00:18:04,770 I mean, another trend, he's obviously a, I mean, everybody's 306 00:18:04,780 --> 00:18:07,610 talking about it. So I just, I'm very reluctant to 307 00:18:07,680 --> 00:18:11,570 talk too much about it because I think like our listeners are 308 00:18:11,580 --> 00:18:15,080 getting my news about AI left and right, but like something 309 00:18:15,090 --> 00:18:18,400 that's applicable to your applications and the legal skill 310 00:18:18,410 --> 00:18:21,030 set as well is that at the moment, what I see a lot of 311 00:18:21,040 --> 00:18:24,870 people, they treat AI as a replacement for their work and, 312 00:18:25,460 --> 00:18:29,070 and that's not effective. OK, had multiple people come to 313 00:18:29,080 --> 00:18:32,560 me go over the past year, for instance, and they asked me to 314 00:18:32,570 --> 00:18:34,660 review their alarm personal statements. 315 00:18:34,670 --> 00:18:38,520 And it was quite evident that parts were AI generated. 316 00:18:38,590 --> 00:18:43,240 And it was evident because AI is not good at idea generation And 317 00:18:43,250 --> 00:18:47,020 you just, you can very easily spot those fully AI generated 318 00:18:47,030 --> 00:18:49,920 essays. And I seen the same few months 319 00:18:49,930 --> 00:18:53,520 ago when I was, I was a member of the selection committee for 320 00:18:53,530 --> 00:18:56,860 regional arbitration Academy. And there were just people who 321 00:18:56,950 --> 00:19:00,600 they will copy pasted things from the apparently they just 322 00:19:00,770 --> 00:19:05,020 the, the uploaded their CD's and then they copy pasted where the 323 00:19:05,030 --> 00:19:08,720 AI generated without even reducing the formatting of the 324 00:19:08,730 --> 00:19:11,060 I, you know, like the, the, the bold parts. 325 00:19:11,070 --> 00:19:13,610 And obviously that was like a immediate rejection. 326 00:19:13,680 --> 00:19:16,930 And what I think is important to understand, and I think it's 327 00:19:16,940 --> 00:19:20,290 going to be a trend, is that AI is not gonna replace people. 328 00:19:20,300 --> 00:19:23,150 It's gonna it's gonna enhance people. 329 00:19:23,220 --> 00:19:26,510 And that applies to applications as well. 330 00:19:26,600 --> 00:19:30,500 Because if you are a good writer, hey, I can do a lot for 331 00:19:30,510 --> 00:19:32,280 you. Like especially the editing part 332 00:19:32,390 --> 00:19:35,460 and especially for instance, checking the English grammar. 333 00:19:35,670 --> 00:19:37,960 Because the Lord developed most dilemma applicants are not 334 00:19:37,970 --> 00:19:40,620 English native speakers and English is a huge barrier. 335 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:42,470 But it can help with English grammar. 336 00:19:42,520 --> 00:19:45,520 But treating it as a substitution is just not going 337 00:19:45,530 --> 00:19:49,940 to help because because it's the same as hiring an intern and 338 00:19:49,950 --> 00:19:54,010 instead of teaching that intern, just giving them the just giving 339 00:19:54,020 --> 00:19:58,840 the intern the entire projects. So yeah, look, I think that the 340 00:19:58,850 --> 00:20:03,280 trend is just too. To learn how to enhance your 341 00:20:03,290 --> 00:20:07,020 skill set and your legal acumen with AI. 342 00:20:07,090 --> 00:20:11,600 But not not just outsourced to it like entire projects because 343 00:20:11,670 --> 00:20:16,880 at least as I currently stands, it's just not producing optimal 344 00:20:16,890 --> 00:20:19,200 results. I'd say these are the trends. 345 00:20:19,260 --> 00:20:21,350 No, that's amazing. I really appreciate you bringing 346 00:20:21,360 --> 00:20:23,100 that up. I I think those are very 347 00:20:23,170 --> 00:20:25,340 important conversations that we. We need to. 348 00:20:25,350 --> 00:20:28,560 Continue having We can't really outsource our thinking 349 00:20:28,570 --> 00:20:31,160 completely, so it it definitely needs a lot of editing and 350 00:20:31,170 --> 00:20:33,340 definitely needs a lot of teaching and instructing. 351 00:20:33,350 --> 00:20:35,390 And we, we. Definitely need to learn how to 352 00:20:35,400 --> 00:20:38,280 be better prompters, but not only that, we need to just, you 353 00:20:38,290 --> 00:20:41,480 know, continue exercising our critical thinking and making 354 00:20:41,490 --> 00:20:43,240 sure that we especially in this. Kind of. 355 00:20:43,250 --> 00:20:45,690 Essay where you want to know who you are, right? 356 00:20:45,700 --> 00:20:48,300 And I really appreciate you bringing that up. 357 00:20:48,370 --> 00:20:51,710 And to wrap today's episode, I, I wanted to hear from you, you 358 00:20:51,720 --> 00:20:55,440 know, for someone listening who dreams of studying abroad but is 359 00:20:55,450 --> 00:20:59,010 unsure if they have what it takes, what would you encourage 360 00:20:59,020 --> 00:21:02,120 them to remember before giving up on that goal? 361 00:21:02,230 --> 00:21:05,920 Absolutely. I would say don't quite believe 362 00:21:05,930 --> 00:21:09,720 in having what it takes. What I believe in is building a 363 00:21:09,730 --> 00:21:14,580 strong profile, building a store and application and then really 364 00:21:14,590 --> 00:21:17,220 separating things that you can't control and things that you 365 00:21:17,230 --> 00:21:20,030 can't. And in my personal experience, 366 00:21:20,040 --> 00:21:24,760 like, unless, unless you are someone who hasn't, just hasn't 367 00:21:24,770 --> 00:21:28,400 been doing nothing your whole life, and then suddenly you 368 00:21:28,410 --> 00:21:31,270 decided that you want to go to Harvard, unless you are that 369 00:21:31,380 --> 00:21:33,210 there is really a lot you can do. 370 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:37,640 And, and the problem that I see most often is not that people 371 00:21:37,880 --> 00:21:41,130 who want to apply to a really good university, It's not that 372 00:21:41,140 --> 00:21:44,070 they're not qualified or it's not that they don't have what it 373 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,270 takes, but it's that they're so close to their professional 374 00:21:48,280 --> 00:21:51,550 background for their personal background that they don't see 375 00:21:51,600 --> 00:21:55,970 how much value they have and how much they can offer this world. 376 00:21:56,100 --> 00:22:00,310 So what I what I've liked you, what I would like to have a 377 00:22:00,320 --> 00:22:04,350 listeners to remember is that like whenever you have those 378 00:22:04,360 --> 00:22:08,890 thoughts that I'm just not good enough or it's not going to work 379 00:22:08,900 --> 00:22:12,760 out for me. Maybe treat those thoughts as 380 00:22:13,620 --> 00:22:18,090 the knot, not as the truth, but not as a fact, because those 381 00:22:18,100 --> 00:22:22,730 thoughts, they often cover up as truth, but treat them as the, 382 00:22:22,740 --> 00:22:24,290 as, as who they are, their thoughts. 383 00:22:24,300 --> 00:22:28,790 And, and if you want to give it a shot, try anyway and just 384 00:22:28,960 --> 00:22:31,650 approach it in a more like scientific way, like ability 385 00:22:31,660 --> 00:22:34,870 hypothesis, like what if, what if I'm qualified? 386 00:22:34,940 --> 00:22:40,330 What if I can do ABC and then see whether it works out and, 387 00:22:40,340 --> 00:22:44,830 and then just received what what I call compassionate detachment. 388 00:22:44,880 --> 00:22:48,990 First of all, compassion to yourself because because life is 389 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:52,760 hard and, and applications are hard and, and there are things 390 00:22:52,770 --> 00:22:55,550 that he can't control and there are things that he can't. 391 00:22:55,620 --> 00:22:57,750 And unfortunately that that's just how it works. 392 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:03,280 But don't throw yourself over an opportunity unless unless you've 393 00:23:03,290 --> 00:23:08,420 tried and you actually have given it's like enough in terms 394 00:23:08,430 --> 00:23:13,540 of the strategy and research and and just doing whatever you can 395 00:23:13,600 --> 00:23:15,400 in these circumstances that you are in. 396 00:23:15,560 --> 00:23:17,340 Let's say that that's what I would like. 397 00:23:17,390 --> 00:23:19,560 I will listen extremer. Amazing. 398 00:23:19,650 --> 00:23:22,160 Well, thank you so much once again for being in the podcast 399 00:23:22,170 --> 00:23:24,270 today. Thank you all for tuning into 400 00:23:24,280 --> 00:23:26,880 this episode. Thank you so so much for having 401 00:23:26,890 --> 00:23:29,200 me. I really hope it's been helpful. 402 00:23:31,630 --> 00:23:34,640 Whether you're studying law in Mumbai or practicing in 403 00:23:34,650 --> 00:23:38,600 Manhattan, Rev can help you transcribe and analyze all your 404 00:23:38,610 --> 00:23:43,740 case materials with verifiablecitations.learnmore@rev.com.