1 00:00:12,940 --> 00:00:15,510 Hello, everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:18,350 Studying Law around the World. Today I'll have the opportunity 3 00:00:18,360 --> 00:00:22,170 to welcome Calling Levy. Calling is a general counsel and 4 00:00:22,180 --> 00:00:26,850 educator and author and advisor and so many other important 5 00:00:26,860 --> 00:00:29,550 roles. He's also an advocate for mental 6 00:00:29,560 --> 00:00:32,950 health and lots of good things out there on the Internet. 7 00:00:33,040 --> 00:00:36,770 So please join me in welcoming. Thank you so much for joining us 8 00:00:36,780 --> 00:00:38,550 today. Thanks so much for having me. 9 00:00:38,620 --> 00:00:41,380 Fantastic. Well, I know that you know, way 10 00:00:41,390 --> 00:00:44,380 you're, you don't need much of an introduction. 11 00:00:44,390 --> 00:00:46,620 I feel like a lot of people who might be listening to the 12 00:00:46,630 --> 00:00:50,160 podcast already know you follow you on social media and all of 13 00:00:50,170 --> 00:00:52,240 that. But I'd love to hear a little 14 00:00:52,310 --> 00:00:56,040 bit about, you know, your path and especially because I feel 15 00:00:56,050 --> 00:00:59,240 like you're legal journey has taken many unique turns and 16 00:00:59,250 --> 00:01:01,880 you've built such a nice practice for yourself. 17 00:01:01,890 --> 00:01:04,660 So I'd love to hear a little more about, you know, that this 18 00:01:04,670 --> 00:01:08,390 direction that your career has taken and and how you got where 19 00:01:08,400 --> 00:01:11,700 you're at. If someone had asked me, you 20 00:01:11,710 --> 00:01:16,220 know, do you envision yourself doing what you do now? 21 00:01:16,270 --> 00:01:19,880 When I started as a lawyer, as with a lot of folks who would be 22 00:01:19,890 --> 00:01:23,030 asked this question, I would say yeah, no, you're you're crazy. 23 00:01:23,040 --> 00:01:26,500 There's absolutely no way I be 4:00 AM doing what I am doing. 24 00:01:26,570 --> 00:01:30,270 But that just speaks to, I think this unpredictable journey that 25 00:01:30,280 --> 00:01:32,150 I've been on. And yet at the same time, 26 00:01:32,160 --> 00:01:35,010 looking back, the journey kind of makes sense to me. 27 00:01:35,020 --> 00:01:38,590 So one in the talk back a little bit, when I graduated from 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:42,170 college, I worked for a year for a big law firm in New York as a 29 00:01:42,180 --> 00:01:43,860 paralegal, do an ediscovery work. 30 00:01:43,870 --> 00:01:46,630 And because I was interested in technology, I was interested in 31 00:01:46,640 --> 00:01:48,270 going to law. So I wanted to get a little bit 32 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:51,790 of experience in before I pursued law school. 33 00:01:51,840 --> 00:01:54,970 So this, you know, opportunity struck me as sort of the perfect 34 00:01:54,980 --> 00:01:57,530 way to to achieve that goal. And it did. 35 00:01:57,540 --> 00:01:59,370 It gave me exposure to technology. 36 00:01:59,380 --> 00:02:02,530 I was able to understand how discovery works. 37 00:02:02,540 --> 00:02:05,230 Some of the tools are used in that in that space. 38 00:02:05,240 --> 00:02:08,210 But at the same time, I also saw the disconnect between the 39 00:02:08,220 --> 00:02:12,080 lawyers that I was performing this worked for at their request 40 00:02:12,090 --> 00:02:14,780 and the technology I was using. The lawyers didn't seem all that 41 00:02:14,790 --> 00:02:16,000 interested in the technology at all. 42 00:02:16,010 --> 00:02:18,780 They seemed interested in just getting the data they needed to 43 00:02:18,790 --> 00:02:20,620 get to achieve what they want to achieve. 44 00:02:20,670 --> 00:02:22,980 Come Fast forward a little bit to law school. 45 00:02:23,030 --> 00:02:26,140 Law school for me was a bit of a disappointment in that there was 46 00:02:26,150 --> 00:02:29,020 very little discussion of technology and law school. 47 00:02:29,030 --> 00:02:32,200 A lot of it was focused just on theory and kind of the history 48 00:02:32,210 --> 00:02:36,260 of how the law came to be, as many law schools remain focused 49 00:02:36,270 --> 00:02:39,120 on that. And yet I just became more and 50 00:02:39,130 --> 00:02:43,280 more convinced that either I was crazy or that there really was a 51 00:02:43,290 --> 00:02:47,340 gap between the practice of law and the reality on the ground in 52 00:02:47,350 --> 00:02:50,080 terms of how technology was impacting other industries like 53 00:02:50,090 --> 00:02:52,500 healthcare, insurance, and other spaces. 54 00:02:52,510 --> 00:02:55,630 So we're going graduated from law school and started working 55 00:02:55,640 --> 00:02:59,170 as a lawyer. I kind of became more and more 56 00:02:59,180 --> 00:03:02,910 interested in discovering whether indeed there were other 57 00:03:02,920 --> 00:03:05,780 folks that were trying to kind of bridge the gap between the 58 00:03:05,790 --> 00:03:08,520 legal world and the tech world. And little behold, there were 59 00:03:08,530 --> 00:03:12,570 folks that were doing that. And so I was, I guess at the 60 00:03:12,580 --> 00:03:14,900 time, bold enough to reach out to some of these folks and 61 00:03:14,910 --> 00:03:17,610 engage with them to learn more about the space, what they were 62 00:03:17,620 --> 00:03:21,150 trying to do to bridge that gap. And those conversations helped 63 00:03:21,160 --> 00:03:23,370 educate me, orientate me to the space. 64 00:03:23,380 --> 00:03:26,730 And I reached the point where I was wanting to share some of my 65 00:03:26,740 --> 00:03:28,890 lessons from those conversations with others. 66 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:31,890 And that really started sort of me off on this journey into 67 00:03:31,900 --> 00:03:34,270 legal tech and also was providing me with a foundation 68 00:03:34,280 --> 00:03:36,310 to build off of. That's fantastic. 69 00:03:36,320 --> 00:03:39,990 Thank you sharing that. It's, it's been so interesting 70 00:03:40,000 --> 00:03:44,270 to see how different lawyers have, you know, implemented 71 00:03:44,340 --> 00:03:49,030 different, you know, technology in all their different 72 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:51,930 principles into their career. Recently I spoke with a lawyer 73 00:03:51,940 --> 00:03:55,150 who went into privacy and they were just telling me a little 74 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,590 bit about it might not be the case anymore, but just about, 75 00:03:58,600 --> 00:04:02,350 you know, a year, 2 ago, you could fast track your career so 76 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:06,280 much using this specific niche because there aren't any lawyers 77 00:04:06,290 --> 00:04:08,390 who have been 10 years into this topic. 78 00:04:08,440 --> 00:04:11,620 But to continue our conversation here, I'd love to hear a little 79 00:04:11,630 --> 00:04:14,240 more about, you know, you've held these many hats I mentioned 80 00:04:14,250 --> 00:04:17,490 before, GC educator, author, advisor. 81 00:04:17,500 --> 00:04:21,089 How do you balance all of these roles while staying grounded in 82 00:04:21,100 --> 00:04:22,850 your core purpose? Yeah. 83 00:04:22,860 --> 00:04:26,320 You know, I'm, I'm just the type that like just stay busy and 84 00:04:26,330 --> 00:04:29,020 being engaged in a variety of different activities. 85 00:04:29,030 --> 00:04:32,460 So I think that I stay grounded through kind of just couple 86 00:04:32,470 --> 00:04:35,690 things. One, we're on minding myself 87 00:04:35,760 --> 00:04:40,240 that it's important to take a step back and to be grateful for 88 00:04:40,250 --> 00:04:44,610 what I've achieved and what I'm doing to, to really just at 89 00:04:44,620 --> 00:04:49,650 times kind of refocus myself on why became a lawyer in the 1st 90 00:04:49,660 --> 00:04:53,250 place, which was to help people and to also challenge myself 91 00:04:53,260 --> 00:04:56,790 intellectually. And then lastly, I think that 92 00:04:56,800 --> 00:04:59,010 being engaged in all these different activities allows me 93 00:04:59,020 --> 00:05:02,230 to remain connected to the community that empowers me and I 94 00:05:02,240 --> 00:05:05,290 find so inspiring. So that is in part what 95 00:05:05,300 --> 00:05:08,610 motivates me to remain active in doing what I do because I'm so 96 00:05:08,620 --> 00:05:12,190 inspired by others I encounter in the community and in seeking 97 00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,830 to help. No, that's beautiful. 98 00:05:13,840 --> 00:05:16,380 I love that. And continuing on that sense 99 00:05:16,390 --> 00:05:20,100 that you're online presence is pretty, it's pretty interesting. 100 00:05:20,110 --> 00:05:22,400 It's incredibly intentional, inspiring. 101 00:05:22,470 --> 00:05:25,680 You've raised awareness to so many important topics. 102 00:05:25,750 --> 00:05:30,100 So if I may ask you, what role has LinkedIn playing played in 103 00:05:30,110 --> 00:05:32,880 shaping your voice and building meaningful, meaningful 104 00:05:32,890 --> 00:05:35,980 connections within the legal community and more specifically 105 00:05:35,990 --> 00:05:37,280 in legal tech? Yeah. 106 00:05:37,290 --> 00:05:40,320 So it's interesting that LinkedIn has been, I think, a 107 00:05:40,330 --> 00:05:45,340 really beneficial platform for me because I kind of intuitively 108 00:05:45,350 --> 00:05:50,000 understood the value of the platform, which was to share 109 00:05:50,010 --> 00:05:53,440 informative content and to build connections with others. 110 00:05:53,490 --> 00:05:56,780 And LinkedIn really facilitates that through a variety of ways. 111 00:05:56,870 --> 00:06:00,200 And one of those ways was how I first sort of got my start on 112 00:06:00,210 --> 00:06:02,870 the platform, which is to comment on other people's posts 113 00:06:02,880 --> 00:06:06,630 and kind of provide my own thoughts and try to engage with 114 00:06:06,640 --> 00:06:09,940 them. And much to my surprise and some 115 00:06:09,950 --> 00:06:13,860 part, those folks did engage with me in response to the 116 00:06:13,870 --> 00:06:16,960 comments that I made, which then prompted me to reach out to them 117 00:06:16,970 --> 00:06:18,520 and connect with them and learn from them. 118 00:06:18,530 --> 00:06:22,820 So I'd say that LinkedIn really has been a key tool in my 119 00:06:22,830 --> 00:06:26,640 toolbox in terms of building my legal tech community, in terms 120 00:06:26,650 --> 00:06:30,520 of building my own expertise in this space, and then helping to 121 00:06:30,530 --> 00:06:34,920 support and inform others. And it remains a very powerful 122 00:06:34,930 --> 00:06:37,520 tool, one that I very much love to use. 123 00:06:37,700 --> 00:06:41,300 And I think it's important for me and also likely for others as 124 00:06:41,310 --> 00:06:45,460 well to not be distracted by kind of the metrics and terms of 125 00:06:45,470 --> 00:06:49,220 numbers or numbers of followers or connections or number of 126 00:06:49,230 --> 00:06:53,220 views on a post are really just be focused on providing 127 00:06:53,290 --> 00:06:56,210 informative and inspiring content for others. 128 00:06:56,220 --> 00:06:59,240 And so long as you do that consistently, I think that 129 00:06:59,250 --> 00:07:01,260 you'll gain benefit from using the platform. 130 00:07:01,470 --> 00:07:03,110 Indeed, that's been the case for me. 131 00:07:03,170 --> 00:07:06,380 I love the idea of using it with authenticity as well. 132 00:07:06,430 --> 00:07:08,860 I just find it awesome. The idea that you can use it 133 00:07:08,870 --> 00:07:13,120 authentically and you're writing speaks to transformation, but 134 00:07:13,130 --> 00:07:16,540 also practicality. So if I may ask you a little bit 135 00:07:16,550 --> 00:07:20,840 about first in the legal space, how do you continue to encourage 136 00:07:20,850 --> 00:07:24,930 legal professionals to embrace more innovation, to embrace more 137 00:07:24,940 --> 00:07:27,320 technology into their day-to-day practice? 138 00:07:27,370 --> 00:07:31,370 And then seeing that in the fast-paced world we're at, how 139 00:07:31,380 --> 00:07:33,270 do you put all these things together? 140 00:07:33,280 --> 00:07:35,370 How can you continually do this work? 141 00:07:35,420 --> 00:07:37,930 Yeah. So, you know, for me, what I 142 00:07:37,940 --> 00:07:41,890 really try to do is make technology as practical and as 143 00:07:41,900 --> 00:07:46,270 real per se as I can for others. And the way that I primarily do 144 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:50,940 that is through date, through, you know, showing examples, case 145 00:07:50,950 --> 00:07:54,330 studies, sharing data and statistics, really just trying 146 00:07:54,340 --> 00:07:57,450 to kind of ground it in some reality. 147 00:07:57,460 --> 00:07:59,810 Because too often, I think especially in the tech world, 148 00:07:59,820 --> 00:08:02,400 this is not just isolated to legal tech. 149 00:08:02,410 --> 00:08:06,290 It's really, I think, a broad based issue with technology 150 00:08:06,300 --> 00:08:10,300 where there is so much noise and so much hype around technology, 151 00:08:10,310 --> 00:08:14,700 especially these days around AI. And I see myself and other, and 152 00:08:14,710 --> 00:08:17,110 I'm attracted to others who try to cut through all the noise and 153 00:08:17,120 --> 00:08:20,300 the hype and try to provide sort of a real sense of what's 154 00:08:20,310 --> 00:08:23,140 possible, what's not possible, what could be possible. 155 00:08:23,200 --> 00:08:26,560 And it's a constant challenge, but it's one that I happily take 156 00:08:26,570 --> 00:08:28,640 on because I do think it's important for people to 157 00:08:28,650 --> 00:08:32,580 understand a couple of things, that technology is here to stay 158 00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:35,960 and that it shouldn't be something that's intimidating or 159 00:08:35,970 --> 00:08:38,860 overwhelming, but really should be something that helps them be 160 00:08:39,210 --> 00:08:42,679 them being others, being more productive with their time and 161 00:08:42,690 --> 00:08:46,160 what they're doing. That's incredible and it's 162 00:08:46,170 --> 00:08:49,960 showing that I've I've seen where you where you said that 163 00:08:49,970 --> 00:08:52,960 standing still is not an option in this market. 164 00:08:53,030 --> 00:08:57,880 So how does that you know and helps you to stay curious to 165 00:08:57,950 --> 00:09:02,000 help others and also to avoid the complacency in in the 166 00:09:02,010 --> 00:09:05,340 workplace? Yeah, so I am just one who is 167 00:09:05,350 --> 00:09:10,160 never happy to just not be learning or what have you. 168 00:09:10,170 --> 00:09:15,960 So for me, I just see myself as a constant learner because I see 169 00:09:15,970 --> 00:09:19,110 learning as a lifelong process. It doesn't have a defined 170 00:09:19,120 --> 00:09:21,530 endpoint, doesn't really have an endpoint at all. 171 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,730 So that means that I constantly have to learn and have to adapt. 172 00:09:25,740 --> 00:09:28,690 And I think that's important for all of us to do because none of 173 00:09:28,700 --> 00:09:31,290 us knows everything or is good at everything. 174 00:09:31,300 --> 00:09:34,530 So we all have to be acknowledged sort of wrong 175 00:09:34,880 --> 00:09:38,570 shortcomings and our strengths as well as our weaknesses. 176 00:09:38,580 --> 00:09:41,510 And so I often kind of been reminded of the fact that the 177 00:09:41,520 --> 00:09:46,150 more I know, the more reminded of how much there is to learn. 178 00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:48,830 And so that inspires me to keep on learning and keep on 179 00:09:48,840 --> 00:09:50,710 experimenting. I think as we've seen with 180 00:09:50,720 --> 00:09:54,030 technology being very changeable, very dynamic, that 181 00:09:54,040 --> 00:09:56,990 learning really is something that needs to be constantly 182 00:09:57,060 --> 00:10:00,290 focused on and done because otherwise you're going to lose 183 00:10:00,300 --> 00:10:02,130 sight of what's going on in front of. 184 00:10:02,140 --> 00:10:05,300 You yeah, absolutely. And, and talking about that same 185 00:10:05,310 --> 00:10:08,800 topic about the workplace and and where you're at, I'd love to 186 00:10:08,810 --> 00:10:10,940 hear a little bit about happiness at work. 187 00:10:10,950 --> 00:10:15,080 A few weeks ago, I feel like we both saw one of chat about post 188 00:10:15,130 --> 00:10:18,560 chat about and I think his post was very interesting. 189 00:10:18,570 --> 00:10:20,960 He talked about intentionality and and all of that. 190 00:10:20,970 --> 00:10:24,260 And I feel we both connected in that in in commenting to that. 191 00:10:24,310 --> 00:10:28,120 So I'd love to hear from you. What does a a fulfilling career 192 00:10:28,130 --> 00:10:31,460 look like to you and how have you built that into your 193 00:10:31,470 --> 00:10:32,840 professional life? Yeah. 194 00:10:32,850 --> 00:10:37,260 So for me, a fulfilling career means one that is focused on 195 00:10:37,270 --> 00:10:40,720 helping others and that is provided me with a sense of 196 00:10:40,770 --> 00:10:44,240 contentment and happiness. And because of my passion for 197 00:10:44,250 --> 00:10:48,100 legal tech, my role as general counsel Malbec and my role as 198 00:10:48,110 --> 00:10:51,160 sort of legal tech educator gives me a strong sense of 199 00:10:51,170 --> 00:10:54,280 fulfillment and contentment because I'm helping others, I'm 200 00:10:54,290 --> 00:10:56,780 helping myself. And so it's just sort of a 201 00:10:56,830 --> 00:10:59,240 really rewarding place to be. And I feel very lucky and 202 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:01,940 grateful to be in this position because it certainly took a lot 203 00:11:01,950 --> 00:11:05,220 of work and time to get there. But now that I'm here, I'm 204 00:11:05,230 --> 00:11:08,800 really, really, just, as I said before, grateful to be doing 205 00:11:08,810 --> 00:11:11,520 what I'm doing at this point. Amazing. 206 00:11:11,590 --> 00:11:14,460 And in that sense, you know, a lot of people are starting up 207 00:11:14,470 --> 00:11:17,680 their careers and I feel like the legal field has so many 208 00:11:17,690 --> 00:11:20,610 different things that you can explore and maybe you're not, 209 00:11:20,620 --> 00:11:24,110 you know, feeling that you're super happy at your first job. 210 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,290 So I'd love to hear, you know, what kind of advice would you 211 00:11:27,300 --> 00:11:30,730 give to someone trying to find know that in that intersection, 212 00:11:30,740 --> 00:11:33,710 that sweet spot about where they're what they're good at, 213 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:36,780 what they care about, where they can make a difference and 214 00:11:36,790 --> 00:11:38,390 putting that all together. Yeah. 215 00:11:38,400 --> 00:11:41,830 So I think it starts from kind of asking yourself the question 216 00:11:41,880 --> 00:11:45,610 of why, you know, why are you pulled in a certain direction? 217 00:11:45,620 --> 00:11:48,350 Why do you want to do something a certain way? 218 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:51,190 What is the motivation? What what is pulling you or 219 00:11:51,200 --> 00:11:54,570 pushing you in that direction? And use that then to guide you 220 00:11:54,580 --> 00:11:57,150 as you would kind of explore opportunities. 221 00:11:57,160 --> 00:12:00,110 Because I think the more you know yourself, the more you 222 00:12:00,120 --> 00:12:03,010 listen to yourself and what drives you, the more likely 223 00:12:03,020 --> 00:12:05,770 you're going to feel fulfillment and whatever it is you're doing 224 00:12:05,820 --> 00:12:09,160 and, or find something that is most aligned with who you are 225 00:12:09,170 --> 00:12:11,600 and what you want to be doing. And that sometimes takes some 226 00:12:11,610 --> 00:12:13,970 work, it takes some experimentation and sometimes 227 00:12:13,980 --> 00:12:16,420 even takes failing. But that's part of the process, 228 00:12:16,430 --> 00:12:18,020 frankly. So you kind of have to kind of 229 00:12:18,070 --> 00:12:21,460 sit with that sort of sense of, you know, you may be 230 00:12:21,470 --> 00:12:24,480 uncomfortable at times, you may fail at times, but that's just, 231 00:12:24,550 --> 00:12:27,170 we all fail. We all feel unhappy at times, 232 00:12:27,180 --> 00:12:29,320 such as part of the journey of life. 233 00:12:29,330 --> 00:12:32,100 So we have to kind of be comfortable being uncomfortable, 234 00:12:32,110 --> 00:12:33,760 as I like to say. I love that. 235 00:12:33,870 --> 00:12:36,320 And during the same topic calling, if I may ask you 236 00:12:36,330 --> 00:12:38,980 thinking about, you know, again, those people who are starting up 237 00:12:38,990 --> 00:12:41,460 their careers and all of that. In your personal opinion, would 238 00:12:41,470 --> 00:12:45,080 you feel that maybe you might need to start where you don't 239 00:12:45,090 --> 00:12:49,010 necessarily love the work yet in order to build that future 240 00:12:49,020 --> 00:12:52,520 practice that then you come to love and appreciate and be able 241 00:12:52,530 --> 00:12:55,890 to, you know, have a little bit more of a decision making power 242 00:12:55,900 --> 00:12:58,940 and and help on, you know, shaping that workplace. 243 00:12:58,950 --> 00:13:01,500 Do you feel like that has some truth to it? 244 00:13:01,810 --> 00:13:05,240 Had some kind of have you seen that happening in other people's 245 00:13:05,250 --> 00:13:10,280 lives or has that, does that resonate in any way with your 246 00:13:10,290 --> 00:13:12,780 career experience? Yeah, well, I can speak from a 247 00:13:12,790 --> 00:13:14,980 couple of different angles. One from personal experience 248 00:13:14,990 --> 00:13:19,200 where, yeah, I've, I've had a couple of roles where I wasn't 249 00:13:19,270 --> 00:13:22,750 happy a lot of the time, but I was getting these skills and 250 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,860 experience I knew I needed to get to be doing what I want to 251 00:13:26,870 --> 00:13:29,810 be doing eventually. So I had to kind of tolerate it 252 00:13:29,820 --> 00:13:32,840 for as long as they could or as long as they felt like I I was 253 00:13:32,850 --> 00:13:35,650 able to and needed to. So I do think that especially 254 00:13:35,660 --> 00:13:38,650 for younger lawyers or other legal professionals, 255 00:13:38,660 --> 00:13:41,570 unfortunately, the reality really is that sometimes you 256 00:13:41,580 --> 00:13:44,690 have to take a job you don't necessarily love because of the 257 00:13:44,700 --> 00:13:47,500 experience and the opportunities may afford you. 258 00:13:47,540 --> 00:13:51,930 And ideally, that would be at a company where you, you know, at 259 00:13:51,940 --> 00:13:55,610 least can focus on doing your job and not have to worry about 260 00:13:55,620 --> 00:13:58,090 sort of internal politics or other personalities. 261 00:13:58,100 --> 00:14:01,050 But the fact of the matter is sometimes you have to because we 262 00:14:01,060 --> 00:14:03,310 all have different personalities and we're all not going to be, 263 00:14:03,370 --> 00:14:04,910 you know, best friends with everyone. 264 00:14:04,970 --> 00:14:07,580 So I think that's important skill as well as being able to 265 00:14:07,590 --> 00:14:09,950 kind of just understand how to get along with people that you 266 00:14:09,960 --> 00:14:13,870 don't necessarily want to get along with or, you know, frankly 267 00:14:13,880 --> 00:14:15,910 don't even want anything to do with it depending on the 268 00:14:15,920 --> 00:14:17,750 situation. So, yeah, I do think that 269 00:14:17,760 --> 00:14:20,600 sometimes, you know, it's build a foundation requires doing 270 00:14:20,610 --> 00:14:22,600 things you don't necessarily want to love to do. 271 00:14:22,610 --> 00:14:26,300 Because the other part of it is regardless of what job you have, 272 00:14:26,350 --> 00:14:29,400 at any stage of your career, there's a high likelihood of you 273 00:14:29,410 --> 00:14:32,580 having to do at least one thing you're not really going to want 274 00:14:32,590 --> 00:14:35,780 to have to do. So the more you can get used to 275 00:14:35,790 --> 00:14:39,300 and be OK with that situation, the better off you'll be over 276 00:14:39,310 --> 00:14:41,140 the long term. Fantastic. 277 00:14:41,230 --> 00:14:42,860 Well, I really appreciate your time. 278 00:14:42,870 --> 00:14:46,740 I really appreciate your answers here in the podcast today, and 279 00:14:46,840 --> 00:14:48,440 thank you so much for joining us. 280 00:14:48,510 --> 00:14:50,860 Thanks so much for having me, I really enjoy this conversation. 281 00:14:50,870 --> 00:14:53,560 It's always great to talk with you and thank you all for tuning 282 00:14:53,570 --> 00:14:55,670 into this episode and we'll see you on the next one.