1 00:00:06,580 --> 00:00:08,370 Welcome to your studying law around the world. 2 00:00:08,720 --> 00:00:11,570 I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode I talk with 3 00:00:11,580 --> 00:00:14,550 lawyers, law students and professors from different parts 4 00:00:14,560 --> 00:00:17,290 of the world. She talk about legal education, 5 00:00:17,360 --> 00:00:20,530 careers and what the profession looks like in real life. 6 00:00:21,230 --> 00:00:24,340 We talk about the hard parts, the surprises and the decisions. 7 00:00:24,350 --> 00:00:27,470 That shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study 8 00:00:27,480 --> 00:00:31,100 abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just 9 00:00:31,110 --> 00:00:35,230 curious about how law works around the world, this podcast 10 00:00:35,240 --> 00:00:38,740 is for you. This episode is sponsored by 11 00:00:38,750 --> 00:00:41,400 Contender. How are you doing on LinkedIn? 12 00:00:41,890 --> 00:00:46,640 If you're like 99% of lawyers. Your answer is not great, which 13 00:00:46,650 --> 00:00:49,220 makes sense. You learned LinkedIn as the 14 00:00:49,230 --> 00:00:53,680 place to stash a digital resume and share firm pressers, so no 15 00:00:53,690 --> 00:00:56,960 wonder your LinkedIn presence is somewhere between vanilla and 16 00:00:56,970 --> 00:00:59,310 nonexistent. But I've got good. 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:02,970 News Since we all learned LinkedIn the wrong way, it's 18 00:01:02,980 --> 00:01:05,960 pretty easy to attract more positive attention for you or 19 00:01:05,970 --> 00:01:08,350 your business. Since 2022. 20 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:10,410 Contender. Has been the premier agency. 21 00:01:10,420 --> 00:01:13,890 Helping lawyers go from invisible train possible to 22 00:01:13,900 --> 00:01:16,930 ignore on LinkedIn. To learn more, check out 23 00:01:16,940 --> 00:01:22,460 www.contenderllc.com. Tell them Claudio sent you. 24 00:01:30,180 --> 00:01:33,030 Today, I'm here again with Erica Bailey. 25 00:01:33,120 --> 00:01:35,170 Thank you so much for joining us today, Erica. 26 00:01:35,300 --> 00:01:38,350 I'm both happy and sad. It's great to be here. 27 00:01:38,410 --> 00:01:39,630 Yeah. No, it's great. 28 00:01:39,640 --> 00:01:43,450 You mentioned that because there is a particular reason for this 29 00:01:43,460 --> 00:01:46,710 episode to be that. And can you, can you take over 30 00:01:46,720 --> 00:01:49,350 and tell us a little more of what we're doing here today? 31 00:01:49,400 --> 00:01:52,070 For sure. So hi everybody, this is Erica 32 00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:54,190 Bailey. I am the graduate Career Advisor 33 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:57,060 at the Faculty of Law, University of Toronto and Ayesha 34 00:01:57,070 --> 00:01:59,720 and her pronouns. And this is the very last time 35 00:01:59,730 --> 00:02:04,880 that Claudio is allowing me the grace and the gift of hosting 36 00:02:04,950 --> 00:02:08,449 this podcast on his behalf. Very quick recap for anyone 37 00:02:08,460 --> 00:02:11,300 who's not yet listened in, but you're joining us for the first 38 00:02:11,310 --> 00:02:15,360 time this time last year, this guy by the name of Claudio 39 00:02:15,370 --> 00:02:17,890 reached out and he's like, I'm going to be GPL student, I run 40 00:02:17,900 --> 00:02:20,080 this podcast, I want to interview you. 41 00:02:20,130 --> 00:02:22,960 I was like, who is this person? What are we going to do? 42 00:02:22,970 --> 00:02:25,220 And so I would have thought about it. 43 00:02:25,230 --> 00:02:27,720 I thought, sure, I can interview, but I'm not as 44 00:02:27,730 --> 00:02:30,020 interesting as Claudio is for sure. 45 00:02:30,090 --> 00:02:33,410 And I thought, no, let's see if he'd be willing to Co host. 46 00:02:33,420 --> 00:02:36,820 So he has graciously allowed us to have now our fifth 47 00:02:36,830 --> 00:02:39,530 conversation. I think it is and where I 48 00:02:39,540 --> 00:02:43,290 interview him because this time last year he wasn't even in 49 00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:47,210 Canada but was preparing to come and to begin his program. 50 00:02:47,220 --> 00:02:51,000 And I thought what an incredible opportunity to interview an 51 00:02:51,040 --> 00:02:54,390 internationally trained lawyer who is figuring out how to 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:57,710 license in another country and to learn about the junctures at 53 00:02:57,720 --> 00:03:00,910 which, you know, we can reflect on what happens when you're sort 54 00:03:00,920 --> 00:03:02,730 of trying to qualify somewhere else. 55 00:03:02,740 --> 00:03:06,450 So that's why we're doing this. And so I guess maybe for those 56 00:03:06,460 --> 00:03:08,880 who haven't listened, are those who love the episodes so much 57 00:03:08,890 --> 00:03:11,160 they want to recap. Claudio, why don't you walk us 58 00:03:11,170 --> 00:03:13,550 through a little bit about some of the key points that we've 59 00:03:13,560 --> 00:03:16,050 touched on in the past episodes? Absolutely. 60 00:03:16,060 --> 00:03:20,030 So it, it, it all started with, you know, being show in Brazil, 61 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,910 getting my bags ready and basically sharing a little bit 62 00:03:22,920 --> 00:03:26,030 of what it felt like what it was doing at this time of year. 63 00:03:26,040 --> 00:03:29,430 Last year I was applying for summer in articling jobs, right. 64 00:03:29,440 --> 00:03:32,750 So it, it's such an interesting timeline of how that goes. 65 00:03:32,800 --> 00:03:34,970 I got the chance to share a little bit of what it was like 66 00:03:34,980 --> 00:03:38,150 to prepare to leave and, and coming over, talked a little bit 67 00:03:38,160 --> 00:03:41,950 about why I chose Canada, making plans with families and also 68 00:03:41,960 --> 00:03:45,930 getting ready to to start this new journey and then got here 69 00:03:45,940 --> 00:03:49,030 and started a new episode. Then sharing a little bit about 70 00:03:49,040 --> 00:03:52,350 the essentials or, or the first few things you do once you move 71 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,720 to the new country. So all the essentials from 72 00:03:55,770 --> 00:03:59,440 setting up a bank account, phone plan, all kinds of things. 73 00:03:59,450 --> 00:04:03,380 And then school started finally. So got you learned a lot and 74 00:04:03,390 --> 00:04:06,440 share some of the insights from those first few classes we've 75 00:04:06,450 --> 00:04:08,420 had. And they were very, very 76 00:04:08,430 --> 00:04:11,580 foundational, were very important to everything else we 77 00:04:11,650 --> 00:04:14,120 built upon in the upcoming classes. 78 00:04:14,130 --> 00:04:17,339 And our third episode, if I'm not wrong, talked a little more 79 00:04:17,350 --> 00:04:21,279 about the job market and what the interview experience was 80 00:04:21,290 --> 00:04:23,040 like. And, and all of that, a little 81 00:04:23,050 --> 00:04:26,180 bit of the ups and downs of the regulated recruits, which 82 00:04:26,190 --> 00:04:30,340 included, you know, rejections, waiting for results and also 83 00:04:30,350 --> 00:04:33,920 staying grounded, leaning on family, finding my strengths 84 00:04:33,930 --> 00:04:36,800 and, and learning a little more about myself in the process. 85 00:04:36,810 --> 00:04:39,880 I really enjoyed that part. And then talked about, you know, 86 00:04:39,890 --> 00:04:43,700 in our previous episode about my project for the school's 75th 87 00:04:43,710 --> 00:04:47,280 anniversary, interviewing 75 lawyers, which was amazing. 88 00:04:47,290 --> 00:04:51,120 And talked a little more about networking, about community, 89 00:04:51,190 --> 00:04:55,000 about the idea of not wanting to just get a job, but actually 90 00:04:55,070 --> 00:04:58,460 build some more meaningful relation in this process. 91 00:04:58,550 --> 00:05:00,640 And so that leads us to our final one, doesn't it? 92 00:05:00,690 --> 00:05:01,820 That's right. That's right. 93 00:05:01,830 --> 00:05:03,380 That's that's what I'm thinking here. 94 00:05:03,430 --> 00:05:05,520 Yeah, for sure. And so here we are. 95 00:05:05,530 --> 00:05:09,070 You're about to write your final exams, I think, and so I was 96 00:05:09,080 --> 00:05:12,410 wondering if you could reflect back on this final semester of 97 00:05:12,420 --> 00:05:14,610 time. What stands out for you? 98 00:05:14,620 --> 00:05:16,970 What's the hardest part? What do you want people to know 99 00:05:16,980 --> 00:05:19,200 about this sort of concluding their studies if they're 100 00:05:19,210 --> 00:05:22,060 pursuing a program of study to complete their National 101 00:05:22,070 --> 00:05:24,290 Committee on Accreditation Assessments? 102 00:05:24,340 --> 00:05:28,630 Yeah, it's incredible to be at this stage for so many different 103 00:05:28,640 --> 00:05:32,090 reasons, right? So I believe that the first big 104 00:05:32,100 --> 00:05:36,130 one that really comes to mind is I loved this feeling of 105 00:05:36,180 --> 00:05:39,850 finishing something I started. So many times in life I've. 106 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:43,090 I've questioned myself whether I'm able to finish projects that 107 00:05:43,100 --> 00:05:47,280 I start because I really try to put a lot of energy, time and, 108 00:05:47,290 --> 00:05:50,580 and intention in all the projects that I get myself 109 00:05:50,590 --> 00:05:53,110 involved in. And sometimes when you put a lot 110 00:05:53,120 --> 00:05:55,960 of that writing in the beginning, it can be, it can be 111 00:05:55,970 --> 00:05:58,300 hard to get to the end with the same enthusiasm. 112 00:05:58,310 --> 00:06:03,320 And honestly, I've been so blessed and happy to have such a 113 00:06:03,330 --> 00:06:06,220 supporting community that allowed me to continue this 114 00:06:06,230 --> 00:06:09,360 process with that, just that much of, of excitement, 115 00:06:09,370 --> 00:06:11,540 enthusiasm, friendship and all that. 116 00:06:11,620 --> 00:06:15,260 So I'm just very happy to be in this community that cheers me on 117 00:06:15,270 --> 00:06:17,220 and to be a part of this community. 118 00:06:17,230 --> 00:06:20,220 Also cheering on the the new students that are coming in that 119 00:06:20,230 --> 00:06:21,600 are reaching out and all of that. 120 00:06:21,700 --> 00:06:24,350 But it's, it's very interesting to this, you know, kind of 121 00:06:24,360 --> 00:06:28,130 ending at a little cycle that it's just one of the steps of 122 00:06:28,140 --> 00:06:30,950 becoming a lawyer here. But it's just very important 123 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:34,150 one. So very excited, very in a tense 124 00:06:34,160 --> 00:06:38,290 mode, as finals week always is. But I think that if anything, 125 00:06:38,300 --> 00:06:41,430 it's because we care a lot about showing that we learned those 126 00:06:41,440 --> 00:06:45,170 contents and making sure that we have the best material selection 127 00:06:45,180 --> 00:06:48,630 to make sure that we go into the exams with all the resources we 128 00:06:48,640 --> 00:06:50,810 need. So it's it's been amazing in 129 00:06:50,820 --> 00:06:53,030 that sense. It's a it's definitely a 130 00:06:53,040 --> 00:06:56,790 bittersweet moment. You're speaking about community 131 00:06:56,800 --> 00:06:59,070 and I wonder if we could go back into that for a moment. 132 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:01,890 And you know, for certainly for anyone who's contemplating 133 00:07:01,900 --> 00:07:04,580 starting a journey like this, they may be wondering why you're 134 00:07:04,590 --> 00:07:07,610 talking about community. Who are who would you consider 135 00:07:07,620 --> 00:07:10,990 part of your community and how did you discover them and build 136 00:07:11,000 --> 00:07:12,620 them? Coming new to Canada like? 137 00:07:12,630 --> 00:07:16,370 That no, absolutely. So I, I think that the closest 138 00:07:16,380 --> 00:07:19,970 community we build is those colleagues that are with you 139 00:07:19,980 --> 00:07:23,290 every weekend, right? So naturally those conversations 140 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:26,950 don't end when class is over. We continue chatting during the 141 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:29,870 week. We've met for lunches and coffee 142 00:07:29,880 --> 00:07:32,690 chats and all of that so that we could get to know each other a 143 00:07:32,700 --> 00:07:36,030 little better. And now everybody knows a little 144 00:07:36,040 --> 00:07:38,690 more about their counterparts and all of that. 145 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:41,410 So definitely built a lot of friendships in that sense and, 146 00:07:41,420 --> 00:07:43,970 and community. And that's I think the, the 147 00:07:43,980 --> 00:07:46,590 closest community we get. And then there's kind of a 148 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,460 second level community, which are the, the other colleagues 149 00:07:49,470 --> 00:07:52,930 that are not necessarily that close group of friends, but also 150 00:07:52,940 --> 00:07:55,550 that you, you know, you see them every weekend and you chat a 151 00:07:55,560 --> 00:07:58,450 little bit and you always know a little bit about their lives and 152 00:07:58,460 --> 00:08:00,250 say, Hey, how's your, how's your son doing? 153 00:08:00,260 --> 00:08:02,260 How is that thing doing? Specifically? 154 00:08:02,270 --> 00:08:04,230 You mentioned you were going on interviews this week. 155 00:08:04,240 --> 00:08:07,170 How did that go? It's definitely a point of 156 00:08:07,180 --> 00:08:10,880 contact there and as part of that community as well in that, 157 00:08:10,890 --> 00:08:14,280 in that same level, if we were to make a category, I believe 158 00:08:14,290 --> 00:08:18,270 that the team that works at the university also, it is part of 159 00:08:18,280 --> 00:08:21,470 that because they always see us over the weekend, always 160 00:08:21,540 --> 00:08:23,770 checking up on us and seeing how things are. 161 00:08:23,780 --> 00:08:26,830 And just like we do with our friends saying like, Hey, how's 162 00:08:26,840 --> 00:08:28,850 your son doing? How's your daughter doing? 163 00:08:28,920 --> 00:08:32,809 You guys should know that And and, you know, remind us that 164 00:08:32,820 --> 00:08:35,590 you know who we are. So it's, it's very amazing to 165 00:08:35,600 --> 00:08:39,270 make us really see that this is not just about, you know, number 166 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,350 or a profession or, you know, just a professional 167 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:44,490 responsibility you have as part of your job. 168 00:08:44,540 --> 00:08:48,620 But that does have, you know, a, a much deeper layer to that and 169 00:08:48,630 --> 00:08:50,950 then the brother alumni community that we get to 170 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:53,330 interact in different events and, and throughout the law 171 00:08:53,340 --> 00:08:55,230 school. But I definitely would say that 172 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:58,330 that the closed community are those friends that you see every 173 00:08:58,340 --> 00:08:59,420 weekend. Absolutely. 174 00:08:59,430 --> 00:09:03,090 And we often say that the value of the program is as much what 175 00:09:03,100 --> 00:09:07,010 you put into it and engage with it, meaning that you're setting 176 00:09:07,020 --> 00:09:09,390 up the chats that you're going for that coffee with someone 177 00:09:09,400 --> 00:09:11,850 just meant that you're reaching to new people in the class. 178 00:09:11,940 --> 00:09:14,690 But also you're reaching out to those alumni, you're attending 179 00:09:14,700 --> 00:09:18,390 employer events that you are finding other members who can be 180 00:09:18,400 --> 00:09:21,300 part of your community that can support you during what can be 181 00:09:21,310 --> 00:09:24,620 quite a dynamic Changing is sometimes challenging time. 182 00:09:24,630 --> 00:09:27,760 And so I think, you know, especially to yourself and many, 183 00:09:27,770 --> 00:09:30,480 many others in this year's cohort, we saw a lot of 184 00:09:30,490 --> 00:09:32,920 engagement. And so the great outcomes are 185 00:09:32,930 --> 00:09:35,920 because of the great input. And so I just need to sort of 186 00:09:35,930 --> 00:09:39,500 add that as we sort of shifting our roles here from interviewer 187 00:09:39,510 --> 00:09:41,960 to interviewee, I just thought it's important to reflect on 188 00:09:41,970 --> 00:09:43,840 that. And, you know, as you were to 189 00:09:43,850 --> 00:09:46,970 reflect back, so this time last year, you were like trying to 190 00:09:46,980 --> 00:09:48,860 figure out how you going to put your whole life in a bunch of 191 00:09:48,870 --> 00:09:52,100 bags and bring your soon to be slightly larger family in on a 192 00:09:52,110 --> 00:09:55,740 plane land in Canada. If you could go back to July 193 00:09:55,750 --> 00:10:01,440 2024, Claudio, and give yourself three points of advice, would 194 00:10:01,450 --> 00:10:03,480 you tell your. Past self Well, that's a good 195 00:10:03,490 --> 00:10:06,060 one. So I, I believe that the, the 196 00:10:06,070 --> 00:10:09,300 first thing that comes to mind is definitely something that 197 00:10:09,310 --> 00:10:12,540 we've discussed in previous episodes and it is to get as 198 00:10:12,550 --> 00:10:16,800 much information as you can. Definitely this ride has been 199 00:10:16,810 --> 00:10:21,200 somewhat smooth for me because I got the opportunity to hear from 200 00:10:21,210 --> 00:10:24,060 a lot of people and to get as much information as I could. 201 00:10:24,110 --> 00:10:27,340 So I don't feel like I, I came in blind in any part of the 202 00:10:27,350 --> 00:10:29,460 process. If I didn't understand it 203 00:10:29,470 --> 00:10:32,600 completely, at least I had a general idea of it. 204 00:10:32,670 --> 00:10:36,060 So I didn't feel in any moment that, you know, something caught 205 00:10:36,070 --> 00:10:39,190 me off guard or something, you know, this appeared out of 206 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:42,720 nowhere and they had no clue. And that's thanks to that, 207 00:10:42,790 --> 00:10:46,080 thanks to looking for information, having lots of 208 00:10:46,150 --> 00:10:49,220 generous people that that we're willing to share that. 209 00:10:49,230 --> 00:10:51,800 And I would definitely recommend the same. 210 00:10:51,890 --> 00:10:55,260 And so I would say, you know, make sure that if you're coming 211 00:10:55,270 --> 00:10:59,240 to the GPL program, that you do participate actively in the 212 00:10:59,250 --> 00:11:01,530 Pathways to Licensing program to start with. 213 00:11:01,540 --> 00:11:04,940 That's our graduate career program where we get to learn 214 00:11:04,950 --> 00:11:09,400 all about employment in the NCAA journey in Canada. 215 00:11:09,450 --> 00:11:11,960 So that's one of the very important points. 216 00:11:11,970 --> 00:11:14,980 And of course, talk to other people that have gone through it 217 00:11:15,140 --> 00:11:17,960 so they can tell you a little more about this timeline and how 218 00:11:17,970 --> 00:11:21,180 you can figure that out. And, and especially how that's 219 00:11:21,190 --> 00:11:23,250 possible. Have a lot of people did it and 220 00:11:23,260 --> 00:11:26,020 you can do it to. It might feel a little daunting 221 00:11:26,030 --> 00:11:28,400 when you first hear about how many steps there are. 222 00:11:28,450 --> 00:11:31,700 But once you're in it, promise that it flows a lot smoother 223 00:11:31,710 --> 00:11:34,020 than it seems. And I think that that's a big 224 00:11:34,030 --> 00:11:38,730 number one thing #2 would assuming that same arena would 225 00:11:38,740 --> 00:11:40,620 be to, to get, you know, people, right? 226 00:11:40,630 --> 00:11:43,940 So be it for, you know, building that community we were just 227 00:11:43,950 --> 00:11:45,980 talking about. It's really hard to do things 228 00:11:45,990 --> 00:11:47,570 all on your own. Yeah. 229 00:11:47,630 --> 00:11:50,600 Even if you're, if you feel like your personality is one that 230 00:11:50,610 --> 00:11:53,520 doesn't allow you to be energized, especially when 231 00:11:53,530 --> 00:11:55,970 you're, you know, interacting with other people, if that makes 232 00:11:55,980 --> 00:12:01,520 you tired, I would say that it's worth it beach for having people 233 00:12:01,530 --> 00:12:05,840 to, you know, just chat when you need to have people that can 234 00:12:05,850 --> 00:12:08,360 tell you a little more about a subject you didn't understand 235 00:12:08,370 --> 00:12:11,820 well in class or be it for people who are just not willing 236 00:12:11,830 --> 00:12:15,780 to maybe open some door for you and sponsor you along the way. 237 00:12:15,830 --> 00:12:19,060 So there's, there's lots of different reasons why building 238 00:12:19,070 --> 00:12:22,700 community makes sense and it makes sense to stay healthy and 239 00:12:22,760 --> 00:12:25,340 to have a sustainable career anywhere you go. 240 00:12:25,410 --> 00:12:29,220 So I would say look into meeting people looking to continually do 241 00:12:29,230 --> 00:12:34,380 that. And then for #3 say that an 242 00:12:34,390 --> 00:12:38,260 important step is also take one step at a time, right? 243 00:12:38,270 --> 00:12:40,980 So even though you want to be well informed about what's 244 00:12:40,990 --> 00:12:44,980 ahead, take time, take a deep breath and take one step at a 245 00:12:44,990 --> 00:12:47,590 time. So as I said, it might feel like 246 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:51,300 there's so much to be done, but if you go ahead and do one step 247 00:12:51,310 --> 00:12:54,300 at a time within the timeline, everything works out. 248 00:12:54,370 --> 00:12:56,760 Just like I said, lots of people went through this process 249 00:12:56,770 --> 00:12:59,400 before. So it, it's not like uncharted 250 00:12:59,410 --> 00:13:02,120 waters. And we definitely can, can make 251 00:13:02,130 --> 00:13:05,520 sure that with some organization and making sure that we keep our 252 00:13:05,530 --> 00:13:07,870 sanity, we can do one step at a time. 253 00:13:07,880 --> 00:13:12,290 And that just is a good way to to make it work, not only in the 254 00:13:12,300 --> 00:13:16,440 NCAA journey to become a lawyer, but also for most things in 255 00:13:16,450 --> 00:13:19,360 life, right? I feel like just making, making 256 00:13:19,370 --> 00:13:23,100 sure you you take your time to do things really, really helps. 257 00:13:23,110 --> 00:13:26,040 And even in that sense that I mentioned earlier, when you 258 00:13:26,050 --> 00:13:29,250 start something with too much enthusiasm, there's this little 259 00:13:29,260 --> 00:13:32,210 risk of burning out. So if you can step back for a 260 00:13:32,220 --> 00:13:35,120 second and just reflect on, you know, I'm informed of what's 261 00:13:35,130 --> 00:13:36,720 ahead. There's nothing I can do for 262 00:13:36,730 --> 00:13:38,560 now. So I'll just be aware that 263 00:13:38,570 --> 00:13:40,920 that's going to happen in due time. 264 00:13:40,980 --> 00:13:43,640 But right now I'm just going to concentrate on what's in front 265 00:13:43,650 --> 00:13:46,840 of me. So not wanting to be no, you 266 00:13:46,850 --> 00:13:49,580 know, mindfulness coach or anything like that, but I do 267 00:13:49,590 --> 00:13:53,050 think that's a, that's a genuine piece that maybe even I could 268 00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:56,900 use a little more of as I go to in my day-to-day life here. 269 00:13:57,070 --> 00:13:58,640 Thank you. You know, those are sort of 270 00:13:58,650 --> 00:14:01,860 points of wisdom and I often think of wisdom not as you know 271 00:14:01,870 --> 00:14:03,900 something, but you know how to apply it. 272 00:14:03,970 --> 00:14:09,300 And you know, it's now July 2025 and you are finishing the 273 00:14:09,310 --> 00:14:11,860 program, you're halfway done your summer placement. 274 00:14:11,950 --> 00:14:15,940 And I'm curious how these three points of advice and any other 275 00:14:15,950 --> 00:14:19,190 thoughts you may have you want to share about how does that 276 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:23,300 show up in your current moment in time and in at this phase in 277 00:14:23,310 --> 00:14:25,970 your in your journey becoming a licensed lawyer in another 278 00:14:25,980 --> 00:14:28,330 country? Hmm, no, absolutely. 279 00:14:28,340 --> 00:14:30,920 So speaking on those three points, right on the first point 280 00:14:30,930 --> 00:14:34,260 to be about being informed of what's ahead and making informed 281 00:14:34,270 --> 00:14:38,430 decisions that that never ends. So any career you're building, 282 00:14:38,440 --> 00:14:41,930 any educational pursuit, you always have to to be somewhat 283 00:14:41,940 --> 00:14:44,670 aware of what's ahead. So regardless of which stage you 284 00:14:44,680 --> 00:14:49,740 are right now, my, my focus is under understanding and making 285 00:14:49,750 --> 00:14:52,580 sure that I fulfill all the requirements to take the bark 286 00:14:52,590 --> 00:14:54,830 Sam. And then I'm looking into what 287 00:14:54,840 --> 00:14:57,430 the bar exam looks like. What do I have to study for it 288 00:14:57,440 --> 00:15:01,120 and how do I study for it? So those are my next few steps 289 00:15:01,210 --> 00:15:04,680 that I look ahead. But right now concentrating into 290 00:15:04,690 --> 00:15:08,880 my final exams for the GLM. So I'm still having to write a 291 00:15:08,890 --> 00:15:12,760 contract exam this Sunday. And then that's all all done. 292 00:15:12,830 --> 00:15:17,060 So it's, it's only once you go, But yeah, definitely having to 293 00:15:17,070 --> 00:15:19,760 take a look at that, looking at what's ahead, but leaving the 294 00:15:19,770 --> 00:15:22,320 moment my my third piece that I shared. 295 00:15:22,390 --> 00:15:24,840 And then on the sense of building community, I did say 296 00:15:24,850 --> 00:15:27,890 that my community where those people that I was seeing every 297 00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:30,480 weekend, right? But now it's the next challenge 298 00:15:30,490 --> 00:15:33,620 of making sure that we should stay in touch and connect. 299 00:15:33,630 --> 00:15:36,790 Even though everybody's going to be spreading a little more. 300 00:15:36,800 --> 00:15:39,000 We're not going to be seeing each other every weekend. 301 00:15:39,050 --> 00:15:42,260 How do you continually nourish those relationships? 302 00:15:42,270 --> 00:15:45,880 Right, Because definitely we care about you, each other, but 303 00:15:45,890 --> 00:15:49,220 it's not, it's definitely something that that in my end at 304 00:15:49,230 --> 00:15:52,580 least, I feel like goes way beyond what the GPL is and it 305 00:15:52,590 --> 00:15:56,660 goes way more into our lives and real friendships that should 306 00:15:56,710 --> 00:15:59,520 should hopefully be life long lasting. 307 00:15:59,570 --> 00:16:02,140 So I believe that that's what comes to mind. 308 00:16:02,210 --> 00:16:04,680 And beyond that, of course, you know, making friendships at 309 00:16:04,690 --> 00:16:08,720 work, meeting people outside the program, obviously, and just, 310 00:16:09,850 --> 00:16:13,470 yeah, taking one step at a time. How is it going through some 311 00:16:13,480 --> 00:16:16,540 replacement, I mean, you know, without telling, you know, tales 312 00:16:16,550 --> 00:16:20,720 out of school, but how are you finding the application of the 313 00:16:20,730 --> 00:16:24,520 knowledge that you've learned your past, you know, experience 314 00:16:24,570 --> 00:16:26,940 and how are you finding it showing up or or being 315 00:16:26,950 --> 00:16:29,440 challenged in your summer placement, right? 316 00:16:29,450 --> 00:16:32,860 Now, absolutely. So in my personal experience, we 317 00:16:32,870 --> 00:16:36,980 start our GLM with a class on legal research and writing. 318 00:16:36,990 --> 00:16:39,700 And when I first saw it, I'm like, oh, that's great. 319 00:16:39,710 --> 00:16:42,480 We'll reveal a lot of stuff that I already know about. 320 00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:46,240 We'll see maybe something new or not, but it was just incredibly 321 00:16:46,250 --> 00:16:48,620 helpful. Honestly, legal research and 322 00:16:48,630 --> 00:16:52,910 writing and negotiation have been two of the most useful 323 00:16:52,920 --> 00:16:57,280 classes because of course, all of the, the, the hard subjects 324 00:16:57,340 --> 00:17:00,210 that go deep into the large, so important to understand the 325 00:17:00,220 --> 00:17:03,130 context and all of that. But if it feels very much that 326 00:17:03,140 --> 00:17:05,970 those classes are things that in a way I could, you know, 327 00:17:05,980 --> 00:17:07,770 research, read a book and all of that. 328 00:17:07,780 --> 00:17:10,990 But this is specific abilities and skills that we got to 329 00:17:11,000 --> 00:17:13,390 practice and hear feedback on and all of that. 330 00:17:13,460 --> 00:17:16,540 It wouldn't be as easy to just get out of, you know, watching a 331 00:17:16,550 --> 00:17:19,930 video or reading a book. So in my day-to-day practice, I 332 00:17:19,940 --> 00:17:21,910 find myself reviewing those notes. 333 00:17:21,980 --> 00:17:24,859 There's a lot of principles that go into legal writing, 334 00:17:24,869 --> 00:17:26,560 especially for memos and all of that. 335 00:17:26,569 --> 00:17:30,420 There's substantive headings and point first writing where we 336 00:17:30,430 --> 00:17:33,560 start with the conclusion. So all of those principles that 337 00:17:33,570 --> 00:17:37,240 we learned about last August or last September, they keep coming 338 00:17:37,250 --> 00:17:41,260 up in a weekly basis in my work. And I feel there is some some 339 00:17:41,270 --> 00:17:44,220 some sense of pride to to be like, Hey, I remember that I 340 00:17:44,230 --> 00:17:46,740 studied this in class. Now it's time to put it into 341 00:17:46,750 --> 00:17:49,280 practice. So I think that's one one of the 342 00:17:49,290 --> 00:17:51,860 points. And then as you might previous 343 00:17:51,870 --> 00:17:55,750 practice as well, a lot of being a lawyer in general, especially 344 00:17:55,760 --> 00:17:58,520 if you don't have, you know, a lot of support team that you can 345 00:17:58,530 --> 00:18:02,170 assign things to is being able to figure things out, solve 346 00:18:02,180 --> 00:18:04,610 problems. And that comes with lots of 347 00:18:04,620 --> 00:18:07,010 different ways. It can be, you know, when you're 348 00:18:07,060 --> 00:18:09,550 finding some kind of Rd. block and you just have to pick up the 349 00:18:09,560 --> 00:18:12,950 phone and call that third party and say, Hey, this is what's 350 00:18:12,960 --> 00:18:14,670 happening, This is what we need to do. 351 00:18:14,780 --> 00:18:17,460 What do you say, you know, get to to understand those 352 00:18:17,470 --> 00:18:19,810 situations? And then a second part of it is 353 00:18:19,820 --> 00:18:22,890 being tech savvy as well. You know, maybe I don't know how 354 00:18:22,900 --> 00:18:25,870 something works specifically, but I kind of take a look, 355 00:18:25,880 --> 00:18:29,090 figure it out, Google it, watch a quick YouTube video of how to 356 00:18:29,100 --> 00:18:32,730 do it, and then boom, it's done faster than asking somebody else 357 00:18:32,740 --> 00:18:35,750 to explain me how they usually do it right. 358 00:18:35,790 --> 00:18:38,870 So there's a lot of that, a lot of figuring things out. 359 00:18:38,950 --> 00:18:42,320 I feel like that's one of the the marks of my experience for 360 00:18:42,330 --> 00:18:44,240 sure. Hmm, Yeah, it's interesting 361 00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:46,820 because as much as you know, substantive knowledge is so 362 00:18:46,830 --> 00:18:50,900 important, it's the ability to behave and to practice, 363 00:18:50,910 --> 00:18:53,700 literally do the work and constantly learn and learn and 364 00:18:53,710 --> 00:18:56,550 learn in the work that you're takes that knowledge and it 365 00:18:56,560 --> 00:18:58,700 makes it come alive in in a place of work doesn't. 366 00:18:58,710 --> 00:19:01,160 It absolutely. That makes a lot of sense and 367 00:19:01,210 --> 00:19:03,810 aligns very much with what what it all looks like in a 368 00:19:03,820 --> 00:19:05,760 day-to-day basis. Brilliant, Really. 369 00:19:05,850 --> 00:19:08,800 Are there some additional thoughts you want to leave with? 370 00:19:08,810 --> 00:19:11,260 People who are listening to people who are in programs of 371 00:19:11,270 --> 00:19:13,900 study that help them meet their NCAA assessed requirements. 372 00:19:13,910 --> 00:19:17,100 People who are internationally trained, others who are doing 373 00:19:17,110 --> 00:19:20,200 the challenge exams, but especially to future lawyers or 374 00:19:20,210 --> 00:19:22,560 people who are sort of trying to figure out how to become a 375 00:19:22,570 --> 00:19:24,300 lawyer in another country. You may want to speak 376 00:19:24,310 --> 00:19:26,830 specifically to Canada, but there's some final points you 377 00:19:26,840 --> 00:19:29,760 want them to know. Yeah, I, I would say that a lot 378 00:19:29,770 --> 00:19:33,240 of it would probably come from that same place that I started 379 00:19:33,250 --> 00:19:37,380 this conversation in the sense that, you know, it feels very, 380 00:19:37,450 --> 00:19:40,620 very hard when you first look at all the different steps you 381 00:19:40,630 --> 00:19:42,840 have. But a lot of people who are in 382 00:19:42,850 --> 00:19:45,270 this profession should start with are people who've gone 383 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:48,800 through extensive, you know, education, extensive 384 00:19:48,850 --> 00:19:52,490 standardized testing. So it, it's not like we haven't 385 00:19:52,500 --> 00:19:55,710 done hard things before. So this might be just another 386 00:19:55,720 --> 00:19:58,830 one of those. And just a point maybe specific 387 00:19:58,840 --> 00:20:01,450 to to this experience that I'm leaving. 388 00:20:01,460 --> 00:20:04,360 But I believe it's very much the shared experience that my 389 00:20:04,370 --> 00:20:08,290 colleagues have as well, is that this is a place talking about 390 00:20:08,340 --> 00:20:12,290 this point in time and these geographic area where people are 391 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:14,570 really open to sharing their experiences. 392 00:20:14,640 --> 00:20:17,670 If you reach out. I'm just very, very glad to feel 393 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:20,590 like I do have somewhat of a community in the profession 394 00:20:20,640 --> 00:20:25,310 because lawyers are open to sharing what what's what took 395 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:28,310 them to where they are, how their life goes on in a 396 00:20:28,320 --> 00:20:29,970 day-to-day basis. And. 397 00:20:30,050 --> 00:20:32,830 Many of the times they're just not in a position where they 398 00:20:32,840 --> 00:20:36,550 could help you in the sense of give you something immediate. 399 00:20:36,560 --> 00:20:39,810 And, and I understand the frustration sometimes when my 400 00:20:39,820 --> 00:20:42,430 colleagues are looking for articling or looking for a 401 00:20:42,440 --> 00:20:44,860 summer job. And those lawyers that are so 402 00:20:44,870 --> 00:20:48,510 nice with you and that have the nicest conversations just don't 403 00:20:48,520 --> 00:20:52,000 have any hiring power or any, any influence in the process in 404 00:20:52,010 --> 00:20:54,450 the sense that they can do that directly. 405 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,700 But still they are willing and generous to share their time 406 00:20:57,710 --> 00:21:00,980 and, and to chat with you. So I would definitely say that 407 00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:03,690 that's important to me in the sense of building a community, 408 00:21:03,700 --> 00:21:06,590 understanding what goes on. I, I think it would be maybe 409 00:21:06,600 --> 00:21:09,580 boring, just talk with people who are all decision makers, 410 00:21:09,590 --> 00:21:11,950 right? So you definitely, there's a, 411 00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:15,040 there's a, definitely a bright side to that, to speaking to 412 00:21:15,050 --> 00:21:18,460 people who maybe don't have that, that level within the firm 413 00:21:18,530 --> 00:21:21,880 that maybe can even speak a little bit more candidly about 414 00:21:21,890 --> 00:21:24,460 what, what it looks like and and so forth. 415 00:21:24,510 --> 00:21:27,000 So I would say, you know, go ahead. 416 00:21:27,010 --> 00:21:29,820 If you're, if you're thinking about it, if you're trying to 417 00:21:29,830 --> 00:21:33,240 put your pros and cons on the table, it's definitely a reward, 418 00:21:33,250 --> 00:21:36,390 a rewarding career. It's very interesting one and 419 00:21:36,450 --> 00:21:39,730 all of that into consideration, but also it's, it's a profession 420 00:21:39,740 --> 00:21:42,620 that's true rewards people in the financial sense. 421 00:21:42,630 --> 00:21:46,160 Well, so it's if anything, there is another attractive to that 422 00:21:46,170 --> 00:21:50,560 and it is a place that does accept international presence, 423 00:21:50,610 --> 00:21:54,060 regardless of what you might hear around or that you might 424 00:21:54,070 --> 00:21:57,060 experience in one more isolated experience. 425 00:21:57,130 --> 00:22:00,180 There are internationally trained lawyers in high places 426 00:22:00,250 --> 00:22:04,440 in all different kinds of firms. So don't, don't be discouraged 427 00:22:04,510 --> 00:22:07,540 if you heard a bad experience that somebody had or if you had 428 00:22:07,550 --> 00:22:11,020 one bad experience yourself or maybe a few more than one. 429 00:22:11,070 --> 00:22:13,880 But I don't think it's worth giving up on your dream and your 430 00:22:13,890 --> 00:22:17,940 career just because of those. So I would say keep on keeping 431 00:22:17,950 --> 00:22:20,940 on. Inspiring moment to pause and 432 00:22:20,950 --> 00:22:24,540 reflect on so much of the conversation that we've had not 433 00:22:24,550 --> 00:22:26,620 only in this podcast, but throughout the year. 434 00:22:26,630 --> 00:22:30,100 And perhaps we need to formally give you your mic back because I 435 00:22:30,110 --> 00:22:32,210 think this is the final of our conversations. 436 00:22:32,220 --> 00:22:34,730 But I just before I give you the officially give you the mic 437 00:22:34,740 --> 00:22:37,620 back, I just want to thank you for trusting me with this 438 00:22:37,630 --> 00:22:42,140 conversation, with the emergent quality of conversation and how 439 00:22:42,150 --> 00:22:44,100 it can lead in such surprising ways. 440 00:22:44,110 --> 00:22:47,650 But that inside there's so much wealth of wisdom and knowledge 441 00:22:47,660 --> 00:22:49,310 that you've been able to share with everyone. 442 00:22:49,320 --> 00:22:52,400 And thank you not only for that, for your vulnerability and your 443 00:22:52,410 --> 00:22:56,320 openness, your generosity. And so I've wished to now 444 00:22:56,330 --> 00:23:00,730 formally resign my my role as Co host and to once again thank you 445 00:23:00,740 --> 00:23:03,850 for the honor in being in community with you and to be in 446 00:23:03,860 --> 00:23:07,130 dialogue with you. Well, the, the, the, the filling 447 00:23:07,140 --> 00:23:10,550 of gratitude is just the same. Yarway, Erica, thank you so much 448 00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:12,990 for taking the time to be a part of this project. 449 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:16,550 I really appreciate your insights, your questions, and 450 00:23:16,620 --> 00:23:19,600 being able to have you as a helpful advisor. 451 00:23:19,720 --> 00:23:23,410 And one that I'm so happy to think about what kind of a 452 00:23:23,420 --> 00:23:27,350 career you have where you can see people's lives changing and, 453 00:23:27,360 --> 00:23:29,790 and all these experiences happening and know that you 454 00:23:29,800 --> 00:23:32,070 played the role in that. Also, once you acknowledge how 455 00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,240 much of A role you played in in my own career as I go on my next 456 00:23:35,250 --> 00:23:38,290 steps, I really appreciate all your help and we will definitely 457 00:23:38,300 --> 00:23:40,550 stay in touch. Even if you don't come back as a 458 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:42,790 co-host. I hope that our conversations 459 00:23:42,800 --> 00:23:44,910 never end. And I really appreciate your 460 00:23:44,920 --> 00:23:47,440 time here once again. And thank you guys for tuning 461 00:23:47,450 --> 00:23:50,130 into this series, within this series, in the show. 462 00:23:55,260 --> 00:23:57,300 Thanks for listening. And we'll see you on the next 463 00:23:57,310 --> 00:23:59,750 episode. This episode was sponsored by 464 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:01,930 Contender. Check them out at 465 00:24:01,940 --> 00:24:04,030 contenderllc.com.