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Welcome to your studying law 
Around the world. 

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I'm Claudio Claus. 
In each episode, I talk with 

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lawyers, law students, and 
professors from different parts 

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of the world to talk about legal
education, careers, and what the

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profession looks like in real 
life. 

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We talk about the hard parts, 
the surprises and the decisions 

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that. 
Shaped their paths. 

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Whether you're planning to study
abroad, thinking about working 

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in another legal system, or just
curious about how law works 

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around the world, this podcast 
is for you. 

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This episode is sponsored by 
Contender. 

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Tell them Claudio sent you. 
Today I have the opportunity to 

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receive Brian Pots on the 
podcast. 

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He's a partner at a big law firm
and will talk with us today 

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about mentoring, about his 
experience in law tech, and also

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about his social media presence,
especially on LinkedIn, and 

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about a special project called 
Legal Mentor Network. 

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Thank you so much for joining us
today, Brian. 

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Yeah. 
Thank you for having me. 

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It's great to be. 
Here, I really appreciate it. 

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And to start off this episode, 
I'd love to ask you if you could

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tell us a little bit about 
yourself, tell our audience 

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about who you. 
Are oh, OK, great. 

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Well, I'm a lawyer. 
I'm a partner at a large U.S. 

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law firm called Hush Blackwell. 
It's about 1100 lawyers, but 

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what I really love to do is help
people. 

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And so I've sort of made a name 
for myself and the mentoring 

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category. 
And frankly, in a lot of other 

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areas, I've started a lot of 
companies now I, I've just sort 

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of leaned in to a lot of 
different things and it's almost

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all come from helping random 
people for free and not asking 

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anything from them. 
And so it's, it's been a bit of 

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a, a interesting endeavor since 
I started. 

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And honestly, it kind of started
with the Legal Mentor Network, 

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but the five years since that 
has blown up have just been 

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incredible. 
That's amazing. 

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Yeah. 
As I, as I was looking over 

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information about you and your 
profile preparing for this 

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interview, I saw you, you've 
built quite impressive range of 

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projects across law, business 
stack. 

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And if I may ask, what would you
say was the moments that that 

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really shaped that path for you 
as a builder? 

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Yeah. 
So I used to write a lot of 

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articles because I thought I 
wanted to be a law professor 

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because they have the best job, 
they work nine months a year and

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make good 6 figures. 
But I in 2017, I kind of took 

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time to reflect on the like 100 
articles I'd written and how 

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much time I'd spent basically 
giving my ideas away. 

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And I thought, wait, there must 
be more productive use of my, 

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you know, time. 
And I was like, I saw somebody 

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go through an incubator with 
their startup, a woman I knew. 

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And I was like, that's the 
coolest thing I've ever seen. 

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I'm a litigator. 
I didn't even know this existed 

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really. 
You know, I'd heard of startups,

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but, and so in 2017, I started 
starting companies and then I 

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ended up starting the Legal 
Mentor Network. 

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And since then I've co-founded 5
different companies and been 

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continued to be a very 
productive partner at Amlaw 100 

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law firm. 
So it's been incredible and I 

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got to build the Legal Mentor 
network, which has just been the

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gift that keeps on giving. 
That's amazing. 

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And talking about the Legal 
Mentor Network, I saw that one 

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of your biggest posts that 
really made you LinkedIn famous,

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so to say, was when you put up 
some information about a, a 

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rejection that you received 
early on in your career. 

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So what helped you to, you know,
keep going on after that that 

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first experience? 
Yeah, so back in 2002, I was in 

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law school. 
I was too well and I applied to 

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every one of the top 100 law 
firms in multiple offices and I 

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got form rejection letters from 
all 100 like one sentence, thank

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you for your interest. 
But all the positions are filled

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and I threw them all in a box. 
And about almost 20 years later 

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in 2020, eighteen years later, I
found them. 

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And I thought it would be funny 
to frame the one from my then 

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current law firm where I was a 
equity partner and put it on my 

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wall in my office. 
So I framed it and I came in and

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it was like a Tuesday during 
COVID. 

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And I've I had some pretty good 
social media experience, but not

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really on LinkedIn. 
I hadn't really done anything on

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LinkedIn. 
And I made this LinkedIn post 

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where I took a picture of my 
rejection letter from my law 

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firm from 2002. 
And I was in the heading of my 

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obviously bio on LinkedIn. 
I was a partner at that law firm

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now. 
And I said, law students, if at 

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first you don't succeed, try, 
try again. 

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And 5 million people saw it. 
And that post is what led to 

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directly to the Legal Mentor 
network now, which is ended up 

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with over 5000 law students and 
young lawyers from around the 

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world. 
A lot of LLM students getting 

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free mentorship from lawyers 
like me all through an online 

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portal. 
And just this year, we've had 22

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events in 12 different cities 
around the US just bringing 

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together lawyers and law 
students and encouraging them to

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mentor, wanted each other. 
So it's been just an incredible 

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ride. 
And one of the things that I've 

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learned from it, as I said 
before, is just help people for 

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no reason, no intention of 
getting anything from them, and 

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watch what happens. 
It'll take a while and you you 

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don't expect anything and you 
don't know what it's going to 

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be, but good things will happen.
That's amazing. 

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You love that and a lot of the 
audience are are really like 

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either law students or people in
the early years of their career.

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So that kind of advice is just 
OK. 

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Thank you so much for sharing 
that. 

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And, and if I may go on in the 
legal mentor network, I must 

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mention the audience and all 
that. 

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I'm a member myself. 
And, and just like Brian, I 

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said, people all over the world 
are in it. 

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So I, I'm currently in Toronto. 
I, I was first trained in Brazil

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and I got you connect with a lot
of lawyers here in Toronto. 

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So it's not a US only network, 
but it's really everywhere. 

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And it was just incredible to 
get some connections there 

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because really. 
Are people who are willing to. 

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To connect with you so not no 
kind of cold calling somebody or

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going on LinkedIn talking to 
somebody who might not be 

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interested in chatting, but in 
the other way in the legal 

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mentor network are people who 
actually said they are willing 

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to give up their time and chat 
with you and. 

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It's a lot of impressive people.
That's the cool thing is it's 

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not just if you go on the 
website and you look at some of 

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the mentors, and I always 
recommend if you go sign up on 

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the website to actually e-mail 
the mentors at their work e-mail

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address because lawyers aren't 
good at tech and checking 

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another portal message is just 
not likely. 

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But yeah, they're like 800 at 
every big company, every big law

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firm, small law firms, all 
different kinds of practice 

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areas, government, NGO's. 
It's it turns out there are a 

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lot of lawyers out there who are
willing to help other younger 

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lawyers. 
And I just happened to stumble 

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upon them on LinkedIn. 
That's amazing. 

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And you an incredible bridge for
all of them that that way, I 

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guess I could say like 
mentorship really is at the 

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heart of of your story and what 
you do, at least in this 

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project. 
But I'd love to hear a little 

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more about your thoughts on on 
what good mentorship looks like 

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and what kinds that you will 
make sure that that your young 

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associates have in that context.
Yeah. 

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I mean, mentorship can mean a 
lot of different things to a lot

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of different people. 
Really. 

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I try not to sort of pigeonhole 
anyone into a specific do this 

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or do that with mentoring. 
I think really it's all about 

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the relationships and just being
able as a young attorney or law 

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student to have an actual real 
relationship with a lawyer who 

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isn't your boss necessarily or 
has no specific oversight of 

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you, who's there to help you, 
and that's it. 

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I mean, honestly, a lot of 
times, one of the funniest 

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things that happens, and it's 
almost always, this happens so 

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regularly. 
It's funny that every lawyer 

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who's been out somewhere between
5 and 15 years, I say you should

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sign up to be a mentor. 
And they say I'm not qualified 

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to do that. 
And I literally laugh at them 

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because I've talked to so many 
law students. 

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Most of the time what they're 
asking is pretty basic stuff. 

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And they just need to, you know,
someone to listen and someone to

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help them guide them on their 
way. 

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And so, but you know, you have 
for so long when you're young 

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lawyer been the one who can't 
help anybody and needs help from

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other people. 
So getting people to switch that

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mindset is, is has been 
challenging, but just know if 

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you're thinking to yourself now,
I couldn't be a mentor. 

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That's not right. 
I love that. 

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For one thing, if you think 
about it like law students could

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already help out people who are 
trying to get into law school 

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or, you know, there's always 
somebody who is one step behind 

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you in a way, looking into that 
same profession or that same 

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path. 
There's always something to 

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share. 
So I really like that 

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encouragement. 
You can't lose. 

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When you help other people, 
that's great, That's great. 

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I'm continuing on here. 
Brian, what, what are some of 

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your thoughts on, you know, top 
recommendations for lost 

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students listening to today's 
podcast and young associates as 

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well. 
So we already talked about the 

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importance of, you know, giving 
back and, and staying connected,

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talking to people. 
What are some other things that 

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you would say, maybe to your 
younger self or things that even

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you did in your career early on 
that that you think really set 

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you up for success? 
Yeah, I mean, it's what I 

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recommend is a pretty rigid, 
that rigid, but pretty specific 

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program, basically when you're 
looking for a job as a young 

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lawyer. 
And it's based on 2 facts that 

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most people don't understand. 
The first one is that you're 

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going to be most able to get the
job you want in the city you 

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want three to five years after 
you graduate, not right when you

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graduate. 
And then the other one is that 

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75 to 80% of the jobs that 
you're going to get in your life

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are going to come from people 
you know or have met, not 

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randomly applying online. 
And so when you put these two 

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things together, the strategy is
pretty clear. 

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And that is you should a not 
just try to get the job you want

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coming out of law school, you 
should think about what other 

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jobs could I get that would give
me training for the job I want 

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or whatever and one other. 
So what I recommend is that you 

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pick five cities where you're 
willing to live for two years, 

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not your whole life. 
And literally your job is to get

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on as many zooms as you can with
lawyers in those cities who do 

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what you do. 
That's it. 

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Not necessarily people that can 
hire you. 

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In fact, it's better to try to 
talk to people who you don't 

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think can hire you because they 
will be the ones that refer you 

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to somebody else who can. 
They will be the ones who 

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circumstances change and we'll 
end up hiring you later. 

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But if you're methodical about 
it and you think about and use 

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geography to your advantage, 
notice you're in Toronto, you're

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not in New York, you're not in 
LA. 

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I often tell people when you're 
picking your five cities, make 

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sure three of them are not New 
York, DC, LA, and Chicago. 

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Because 70% of all law students 
who are graduating from law 

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school want to go to New York, 
DC, LA, Chicago. 

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And so obviously the pile of 
resumes in those places is going

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to be a lot higher. 
So that doesn't mean you 

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shouldn't try to go to one of 
those cities. 

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It just means maybe you should 
have some safety cities like you

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have safety schools and you 
should think about the law 

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schools that are around those 
cities because lawyers are still

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regional. 
And so for example, I hope 

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you're not, nobody's from 
Florida listening to this, but 

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the state of Florida has 12 law 
schools in the highest ranked is

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University of Florida. 
So if you're applying to the 

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same big law firm that has an 
office in Boston, NY or Tampa, 

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which one do you think you're 
going to get more interest from?

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It's this Tampa office. 
And so you can use geography to 

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your advantage. 
And if you're methodical about 

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trying to meet with people and 
generally to do that sounds 

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hard, How do I meet with all 
these lawyers? 

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And the answer is easy. 
You spam them and you ask for 

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advice, not a job. 
Don't use the word job or say 

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anything about a job until you 
get on a Zoom. 

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Ask for advice, advice, advice, 
and just keep doing it and it 

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will work. 
It might take you hundreds of 

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Zooms, but I'm telling you it 
will. 

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Work that's incredible. 
And as I was thinking here, this

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very much applies to those 
people wanting a job in the 

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legal field. 
But then once you enter into the

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job market, you're, you're in a 
firm, it feels like that doesn't

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change much because your 
thoughts to the other lawyers, 

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you're talking to the clients. 
Yeah. 

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And you become, that's why you 
become. 

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Well, it shouldn't change, but 
it often does, because what 

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happens is that people get 
hired. 

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They go to a law firm, and then 
they think their only job is to 

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make sure that the law firm 
partners are happy, which is 

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their main job. 
But they forget that they need 

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that. 
This is a relationship game. 

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This entire industry, in almost 
every industry is about 

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relationships, ultimately. 
And if you're in your office for

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10 years as an associate, 
billing hours and not talking to

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anyone except the partners you 
work for, it's going to be 

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really hard when you have to 
transition to go find work. 

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So keep talking to people, keep 
meeting people, keep meeting 

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lawyers or professionals, Just 
get known, be nice to people, 

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help them, and good things will 
happen. 

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It's counterintuitive and hard 
for some people to believe, but 

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it's. 
True, fantastic to to wrap up 

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today's episode here, if I could
ask you as well as you, you 

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know, your own journey when you 
were, you know, looking into 

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different places and all of 
that. 

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You said that usually some of 
the jobs you have in your career

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will come through those 
connections. 

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Was that some of your 
experiences? 

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Well, did you you know in the? 
The only job I could get out of 

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law school was at a law firm 
where I knew someone. 

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And then after that I did get a 
job randomly spamming people in 

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a city and meeting with people. 
And then my third job, a 

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recruiter called me when I was 
in that three to five year 

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window. 
And that's how I ended up at 

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Foley and Lardner where I made 
partner. 

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And then now I've been a big law
partner since. 

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So this it happened to me, but 
it turns out it actually is a 

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pretty good strategy to get 
where you want to go and your 

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career in the legal field. 
I didn't know it at the time, 

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but it certainly has been a 
helpful has been helpful to me. 

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Incredible. 
I'm sure it will be helpful to 

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anybody who who really tries it 
out. 

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And I appreciate you taking the 
time to chat with us today. 

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Brian, thank you so much. 
Yeah, no problem. 

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And if anybody wants a free copy
of my book, I gave it away in a 

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LinkedIn post and it tells you 
which states. 

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I have law schools that aren't 
very highly ranked. 

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There's all kinds of stuff in 
there that's useful. 

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I've got spam emails that you 
can use to get people to meet 

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with you. 
So anyway, that's free. 

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The price is right. 
So everybody should look at 

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that. 
And I know you probably have a 

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lot of international students 
and there's two chapters in that

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book dealing with just the 
question of A, should you get an

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00:16:06,910 --> 00:16:10,590
LM and B, if you are, how should
you, how can you leverage that 

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into a job in the US So that 
hopefully be helpful for some of

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your listeners. 
Absolutely. 

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That's awesome. 
So if you're listening in, make 

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sure that you go follow Brian on
LinkedIn and all social media 

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and also sign up should the 
legal mentor Network. 

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Yeah, thanks for having me. 
Well, thank you and thank you 

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all for tuning into today's 
episode and. 

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We'll see you. 
On the next one. 

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Thanks for listening, and we'll 
see you on the next episode. 

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This episode was sponsored by 
Contender. 

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00:16:39,490 --> 00:16:42,580
Check them out at 
contenderllc.com.