1 00:00:12,430 --> 00:00:14,500 Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 00:00:14,510 --> 00:00:17,220 Studying Law around the world. And today I have the opportunity 3 00:00:17,230 --> 00:00:21,510 to host Dean Vau Miten Berry. She's the Associate Dean for 4 00:00:21,520 --> 00:00:24,940 Graduate studies, graduate and international programs at 5 00:00:24,950 --> 00:00:28,300 Cardozo School of Law. She leads the LLM and JSD 6 00:00:28,310 --> 00:00:31,720 programs, work closely with faculty and senior leadership, 7 00:00:31,730 --> 00:00:34,100 and builds international partnerships that expands 8 00:00:34,110 --> 00:00:37,680 opportunities for students. She holds an LLM in Corporate 9 00:00:37,690 --> 00:00:41,720 Law from Cardozo and also an MLB from the University of Tirana in 10 00:00:41,730 --> 00:00:43,320 Albania. Where does Rose? 11 00:00:43,330 --> 00:00:46,490 She also directed the Heyman Centre on Corporate Governance, 12 00:00:46,580 --> 00:00:50,070 where she organized major events and LED research on corporate 13 00:00:50,080 --> 00:00:52,970 and financial regulation. Thank you so much for joining us 14 00:00:52,980 --> 00:00:55,070 today, Denval. Thank you, Claudio. 15 00:00:55,080 --> 00:00:57,250 It's my pleasure. I really appreciate you taking 16 00:00:57,260 --> 00:01:00,370 the time to being in the podcast today, and this podcast is 17 00:01:00,380 --> 00:01:03,690 brought to you by Cardozo Law, so we are very thankful for you 18 00:01:03,700 --> 00:01:05,790 being here today. But I wanted to ask you a little 19 00:01:05,800 --> 00:01:09,670 more about what inspired Cardozo Law School launch an online LLM 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:12,090 in General Studies and why now? Right. 21 00:01:12,100 --> 00:01:15,910 It's a great question, Claudio, because everything we do at 22 00:01:15,920 --> 00:01:19,130 Cardozo, as you know, Cardozo School of Law is a top law 23 00:01:19,140 --> 00:01:22,410 school in the middle of Manhattan in a very busy city of 24 00:01:22,420 --> 00:01:24,670 New York. And the launch of this program 25 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:29,950 goes to the core of what we do, staying ahead of market trends 26 00:01:29,960 --> 00:01:33,930 and really responding to the latest developments in the legal 27 00:01:33,940 --> 00:01:36,530 market. And as you know, in the last 10 28 00:01:36,540 --> 00:01:40,550 to 20 years, we have seen great advancements of technologies and 29 00:01:40,560 --> 00:01:44,050 such advancements have caused great globalization of 30 00:01:44,100 --> 00:01:48,100 businesses and therefore interconnecting economies and 31 00:01:48,150 --> 00:01:50,690 making the legal profession more globalized. 32 00:01:50,700 --> 00:01:55,190 With evolvement of technology, there is evolving landscape in 33 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,650 legal regulations and interconnectedness in economies 34 00:01:58,660 --> 00:02:03,410 creates more complex laws and laws and cases that span across 35 00:02:03,420 --> 00:02:05,550 borders. So highlighting how 36 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:09,229 globalization has shaped the legal profession creates a 37 00:02:09,240 --> 00:02:13,540 demand in the market for talent that has those skills, lawyers 38 00:02:13,550 --> 00:02:17,590 and students that have a global understanding of the issues as 39 00:02:17,600 --> 00:02:19,780 well as how to solve those legal issues. 40 00:02:19,870 --> 00:02:23,260 And Cardozo has ran successfully, successfully for 41 00:02:23,270 --> 00:02:26,940 20 years at the General Studies in person in our campus. 42 00:02:26,950 --> 00:02:29,340 LM and I was part of the program. 43 00:02:29,350 --> 00:02:32,010 We welcome students from 70 countries. 44 00:02:32,020 --> 00:02:35,000 We have welcomed students from all those countries around the 45 00:02:35,010 --> 00:02:37,260 globe. And to see their success, to see 46 00:02:37,270 --> 00:02:39,840 them transforming their lives through this program and 47 00:02:39,850 --> 00:02:44,100 becoming lawyers in New York and practicing either in New York or 48 00:02:44,110 --> 00:02:47,420 other jurisdictions in the United States or abroad has 49 00:02:47,430 --> 00:02:50,060 given us the idea that maybe with all this growth, 50 00:02:50,070 --> 00:02:53,410 interconnectedness and globalization of services, there 51 00:02:53,420 --> 00:02:56,980 is a demand for lawyers who cannot come to New York and they 52 00:02:56,990 --> 00:02:59,470 can access a bar in the United States. 53 00:02:59,540 --> 00:03:02,750 They can access understanding of US from the comfort of their 54 00:03:02,760 --> 00:03:05,950 homes without leaving their jobs, giving them flexibility, 55 00:03:05,960 --> 00:03:09,490 affordability, and excellent legal education where they are. 56 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:11,570 So it's a combination of things, right? 57 00:03:11,580 --> 00:03:16,150 Market trends, market demand for legal skills that transcend 58 00:03:16,220 --> 00:03:20,150 across cultures and borders, as well as our experience and our 59 00:03:20,160 --> 00:03:24,110 depth in training already for decades, international lawyers 60 00:03:24,120 --> 00:03:26,610 to do to become dually qualified. 61 00:03:26,680 --> 00:03:30,000 And so those two meet together in this platform online to bring 62 00:03:30,010 --> 00:03:32,810 the best education we can in a flexible way. 63 00:03:32,820 --> 00:03:34,190 That's it. Fantastic. 64 00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:36,650 That's awesome. I really like Mutual, learned 65 00:03:36,660 --> 00:03:39,280 the motivation behind it, and I think it makes me even 66 00:03:39,290 --> 00:03:41,020 interested myself in the program. 67 00:03:41,030 --> 00:03:45,140 So who is this program designed for and what kind of career goes 68 00:03:45,180 --> 00:03:47,580 can it help international lawyers achieve? 69 00:03:47,650 --> 00:03:50,200 Well, it's designed for people like you, people who have 70 00:03:50,210 --> 00:03:53,520 studied law in perhaps two countries, one country, people 71 00:03:53,530 --> 00:03:57,510 who want to practice in areas of law that are transcending 72 00:03:57,520 --> 00:04:01,050 cultures and countries, corporate law, global dispute 73 00:04:01,060 --> 00:04:04,200 resolution, for example, intellectual property law and 74 00:04:04,270 --> 00:04:06,620 litigation. There is so much international 75 00:04:06,630 --> 00:04:09,560 litigation happening. With this in mind, if you are a 76 00:04:09,570 --> 00:04:12,190 lawyer or a law student who wants to serve with 77 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:16,790 international clients, who wants to see global issues and solve 78 00:04:16,800 --> 00:04:19,950 global issues in law, this is the program designed for you. 79 00:04:19,959 --> 00:04:23,830 And whether you have 20 years of experience or 0 experience, you 80 00:04:23,840 --> 00:04:27,310 can definitely get this dual qualification and access the 81 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:29,590 benefits of the programs. And what are some of the 82 00:04:29,600 --> 00:04:32,260 benefits? The number one I would say is 83 00:04:32,270 --> 00:04:36,190 eligibility for a US bar examination, meaning you're 84 00:04:36,260 --> 00:04:40,810 going through an LLM degree, whether in person or online, to 85 00:04:40,820 --> 00:04:44,010 meet the bar requirements of a certain jurisdiction in the 86 00:04:44,020 --> 00:04:46,910 United States. In our live program, as I said, 87 00:04:46,920 --> 00:04:49,870 for decades we have helped lawyers meet the New York bar 88 00:04:49,880 --> 00:04:51,930 requirements. But since New York has 89 00:04:51,940 --> 00:04:56,130 restrictions on online learning, we looked at other bars like the 90 00:04:56,140 --> 00:05:00,770 Washington DC or California bar to see how our students or our 91 00:05:00,840 --> 00:05:04,170 international lawyers and access those jurisdictions. 92 00:05:04,180 --> 00:05:08,090 And this program is designed specifically for those bars, 93 00:05:08,100 --> 00:05:11,910 Washington, DC as well as California, because they allow 94 00:05:11,960 --> 00:05:15,570 education online for lawyers. So just to complete these 95 00:05:15,580 --> 00:05:21,530 credits, 26 credits for the DC bar or 24 for California, allow 96 00:05:21,540 --> 00:05:25,730 students to take that bar and become dually qualified in their 97 00:05:25,740 --> 00:05:28,520 home jurisdiction as well as in these jurisdictions. 98 00:05:28,580 --> 00:05:31,770 So that's number one benefit. You can become an attorney at 99 00:05:31,780 --> 00:05:35,830 law in DC or in California through this program #2 is 100 00:05:35,840 --> 00:05:39,250 global career mobility. If you have the opportunity to 101 00:05:39,260 --> 00:05:42,310 be in America and you are already an immigrant, for 102 00:05:42,320 --> 00:05:45,640 example, like I was, and you are working and you can't go to a 103 00:05:45,650 --> 00:05:49,820 live in person, you know, rigorous demanding live program, 104 00:05:49,830 --> 00:05:53,600 you cannot quit your job or you cannot travel to New York, but 105 00:05:53,610 --> 00:05:57,400 you do have the, the, the eligibility to work in America. 106 00:05:57,470 --> 00:06:01,600 This could help you get that attorney job, whether it's in DC 107 00:06:01,610 --> 00:06:06,440 on California and not be limited to either paralegal or law clerk 108 00:06:06,450 --> 00:06:09,000 jobs. You can do more than just those, 109 00:06:09,010 --> 00:06:12,470 you know, entry level. A lot of international lawyers 110 00:06:12,480 --> 00:06:15,130 come to America and because they're familiar with legal 111 00:06:15,140 --> 00:06:19,140 skills, they do enter the legal careers with entry level jobs, 112 00:06:19,150 --> 00:06:21,030 whether it's paralegal or clerks. 113 00:06:21,040 --> 00:06:24,650 And to have the opportunity to have the bar and work as an 114 00:06:24,660 --> 00:06:27,700 attorney at law in DC or California, this is a great 115 00:06:27,710 --> 00:06:29,430 thing. So they can grow in their 116 00:06:29,440 --> 00:06:31,630 profession. But also for those who are not 117 00:06:31,640 --> 00:06:35,400 able to work in America, they can grow their careers back 118 00:06:35,410 --> 00:06:37,710 home, right? Career advancement in home 119 00:06:37,720 --> 00:06:41,370 jurisdiction because you're now having an nuanced understanding 120 00:06:41,380 --> 00:06:45,470 not only of your local laws and local jurisdiction, but also of 121 00:06:45,480 --> 00:06:49,690 U.S. law and international law. Lawyers often strengthen their 122 00:06:49,700 --> 00:06:53,030 expertise in handling cases or clients with US connections, 123 00:06:53,110 --> 00:06:56,220 making them more competitive in the legal market back home. 124 00:06:56,310 --> 00:07:00,120 For example, I meet often with employers in France, law firm 125 00:07:00,130 --> 00:07:03,930 partners or companies who are hiring lawyers, and they always 126 00:07:03,940 --> 00:07:08,960 say that French lawyer with an 11° and a bar from the US will 127 00:07:08,970 --> 00:07:12,520 always be taking an advantage in our hiring because we are 128 00:07:12,530 --> 00:07:15,990 servicing US clients, we are servicing international clients, 129 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:20,140 or we often work with US lawyers in matters that are happening in 130 00:07:20,150 --> 00:07:23,670 France because the interconnecting economy that we 131 00:07:23,680 --> 00:07:26,950 talked about. So to have the opportunity to be 132 00:07:26,960 --> 00:07:30,150 in Paris, but let's say triple your salary, because you're 133 00:07:30,160 --> 00:07:33,140 working with more sophisticated law firms and more sophisticated 134 00:07:33,150 --> 00:07:36,080 clients, that helps you make that career advancement. 135 00:07:36,150 --> 00:07:39,190 Your home jurisdiction #3 is the networking. 136 00:07:39,260 --> 00:07:43,090 When you enter an American law school like Cardozo, which is so 137 00:07:43,100 --> 00:07:47,450 rich in terms of presence in the world, diverse countries. 138 00:07:47,460 --> 00:07:50,370 We, as I said, have had students from 70 countries. 139 00:07:50,440 --> 00:07:53,170 But also to be at the heart of New York City, you have a 140 00:07:53,180 --> 00:07:57,710 network of people, legal minds, colleagues, alumni, professors 141 00:07:57,760 --> 00:08:01,030 that are extremely important for your growth, right? 142 00:08:01,040 --> 00:08:03,690 Whether you are looking for helping your client in another 143 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:05,880 jurisdiction, in another country, and you're calling your 144 00:08:05,890 --> 00:08:10,150 classmate to help you with that matter in a trusted, smart way, 145 00:08:10,200 --> 00:08:13,710 that alone helps you in the future help you, helps you 146 00:08:13,720 --> 00:08:16,080 better serve that client. Or it could be that you're 147 00:08:16,090 --> 00:08:19,310 looking to expand your practice in another country, in another 148 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,000 jurisdiction, and Cardozo community will be there for you 149 00:08:23,010 --> 00:08:25,920 to help you grow. So it's extremely important to 150 00:08:25,930 --> 00:08:29,940 understand the value of an LM, not just as learning and books 151 00:08:29,950 --> 00:08:32,940 and meeting eligibility requirements and succeeding in 152 00:08:32,950 --> 00:08:36,140 the bar, but it's that career advancement that comes with 153 00:08:36,230 --> 00:08:39,460 being present, whether it's online or in person with the 154 00:08:39,470 --> 00:08:43,640 community that is very giving a very rich, diverse, engaged and 155 00:08:43,650 --> 00:08:46,480 caring community. And that was how I experienced 156 00:08:46,490 --> 00:08:49,520 Cardozo as a student. I'm here to speak not just as a 157 00:08:49,530 --> 00:08:52,280 Dean, but also as an international student myself. 158 00:08:52,330 --> 00:08:55,220 When you come to New York, whether you are online or in 159 00:08:55,230 --> 00:08:58,380 person, and we have done a lot of testing of online learning 160 00:08:58,390 --> 00:09:02,380 because of COVID, you are part of a family and family of 161 00:09:02,390 --> 00:09:05,660 lawyers, family of legal thinkers and people who will 162 00:09:05,670 --> 00:09:08,760 challenge you professionally. But that presence, whether it's 163 00:09:08,770 --> 00:09:11,640 in person or online, sometimes can come with anxiety. 164 00:09:11,710 --> 00:09:13,800 And to know that you are learning in a community that 165 00:09:13,810 --> 00:09:17,940 cares for you takes away that anxiety and frees you to grow, 166 00:09:17,950 --> 00:09:21,080 frees you to challenge yourself and to grow in heights that you 167 00:09:21,090 --> 00:09:23,700 never thought possible. So I found my degree to be 168 00:09:23,710 --> 00:09:27,400 transformative and I wish to see all international lawyers and 169 00:09:27,410 --> 00:09:31,120 students who wish to to get into this program to see it as a 170 00:09:31,130 --> 00:09:34,500 transformative opportunity. So for bar eligibility, 171 00:09:34,550 --> 00:09:38,900 networking and seeing that career advancement as three main 172 00:09:38,910 --> 00:09:41,810 benefits of this program. That's amazing, I can see that. 173 00:09:41,820 --> 00:09:45,070 Those definitely make the the the LM from Cardozo difference 174 00:09:45,080 --> 00:09:48,050 than other programs that are open to foreign trained lawyers. 175 00:09:48,060 --> 00:09:50,870 And as you said, this big highlights the ability to 176 00:09:50,880 --> 00:09:54,140 qualify for both the Washington, DC and the California bar exams. 177 00:09:54,150 --> 00:09:57,070 And that's definitely an asset. One thing that that I may ask 178 00:09:57,080 --> 00:10:01,150 here, many listeners and and really friends and and people I 179 00:10:01,160 --> 00:10:03,930 know, they really wonder about quality when it comes to online 180 00:10:03,940 --> 00:10:05,990 education. So I was wondering, what does 181 00:10:06,000 --> 00:10:09,510 Cardozo do to make sure that online students get a true law 182 00:10:09,520 --> 00:10:11,880 school experience? That's a great question and 183 00:10:11,890 --> 00:10:14,090 that's my worry too, right at the Dean. 184 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,280 I want to make sure that students online are engaged and 185 00:10:17,290 --> 00:10:19,930 they are getting everything that we offer. 186 00:10:19,940 --> 00:10:22,850 Number one is the quality of the faculty that will teach in this 187 00:10:22,860 --> 00:10:25,070 program. They are superb. 188 00:10:25,080 --> 00:10:28,860 And I don't say that just because we do have superb 189 00:10:28,870 --> 00:10:31,580 faculty. I say it because they truly are 190 00:10:31,590 --> 00:10:35,420 very engaged in everything we do in terms of innovation. 191 00:10:35,490 --> 00:10:38,770 This is not a faculty that says, OK, whatever you decide as the 192 00:10:38,780 --> 00:10:41,460 Dean or whatever the committee decides will just make it 193 00:10:41,470 --> 00:10:43,490 implement. No, they want to question it. 194 00:10:43,590 --> 00:10:46,420 They want to probe it. How do we make it better? 195 00:10:46,470 --> 00:10:49,820 Can I teach in it? Like these are top, top faculty 196 00:10:49,880 --> 00:10:54,820 who are writers and thinkers and shaping the law like brilliant 197 00:10:54,830 --> 00:10:57,720 scholars, but also who have a passion for teaching. 198 00:10:57,790 --> 00:11:01,580 And they will find the time to to want to teach in an online 199 00:11:01,590 --> 00:11:04,360 program, not just to the JD students like it happens in 200 00:11:04,370 --> 00:11:07,200 certain schools or just the live LM. 201 00:11:07,370 --> 00:11:10,220 They just want to teach the bring the quality that we're 202 00:11:10,230 --> 00:11:12,480 known for to their online learning. 203 00:11:12,540 --> 00:11:16,230 So TAP faculty who have a passion for teaching that will 204 00:11:16,240 --> 00:11:21,570 be present in this program #2 is really making students feel 205 00:11:21,580 --> 00:11:24,990 comfortable from the start. I engage in conversations with 206 00:11:25,000 --> 00:11:28,030 them from the start, from the moment they're applying because 207 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,570 as a Dean, I don't just want to delegate and, and I know that my 208 00:11:31,580 --> 00:11:34,100 team is amazing. I just want to get to know their 209 00:11:34,110 --> 00:11:36,490 mindset. Why are they doing this program? 210 00:11:36,560 --> 00:11:40,370 How can we help them from the start by understanding their 211 00:11:40,380 --> 00:11:42,720 goals? Because if you don't it, when 212 00:11:42,730 --> 00:11:45,110 you come as an international lawyer and you only have this 213 00:11:45,120 --> 00:11:48,650 one year or two years if you want to do it part time to meet 214 00:11:48,660 --> 00:11:52,390 such a high bar, like becoming an attorney in a sophisticated 215 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:56,620 jurisdiction, whether it's California, New York, or DC, to, 216 00:11:56,690 --> 00:12:01,480 to have such a high bar, a very busy year, there is so much 217 00:12:01,490 --> 00:12:04,300 demanded of you. The yellow lamb has to start 218 00:12:04,310 --> 00:12:07,480 much earlier than when it begins, when the, the, the 219 00:12:07,590 --> 00:12:10,800 classes begin, right? It starts with writing down your 220 00:12:10,810 --> 00:12:13,980 goals, getting us to know your goals, getting us to help you 221 00:12:13,990 --> 00:12:17,640 shape the schedule that will get you to those goals, right? 222 00:12:17,730 --> 00:12:20,820 Ambition is great. But there is like in any 223 00:12:20,830 --> 00:12:23,790 marathon, there is a lot of work that has to happen between start 224 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:26,050 and finish. And if you don't pace yourself, 225 00:12:26,060 --> 00:12:29,570 if you don't know the rules of the game, and if you just think 226 00:12:29,580 --> 00:12:33,670 that you, you can do it all while while working, it's fine. 227 00:12:33,680 --> 00:12:36,660 But you need that kind of supervision and that kind of 228 00:12:36,670 --> 00:12:39,930 engagement from us because we have done it for 15 years, 20 229 00:12:39,940 --> 00:12:42,260 years. And to all those years of 230 00:12:42,270 --> 00:12:44,980 experience and all those stories of success from all these 231 00:12:44,990 --> 00:12:48,170 countries, 70 countries. Let those be your lessons. 232 00:12:48,180 --> 00:12:52,580 So that whether you are a mother working or a father working with 233 00:12:52,630 --> 00:12:56,110 kids and busy schedules and you really don't want to postpone 234 00:12:56,120 --> 00:12:58,060 your dreams. We know you can do it, but you 235 00:12:58,070 --> 00:13:02,070 gotta kind of listen to our advice and take it step by step 236 00:13:02,150 --> 00:13:06,260 and trust the that we have built a very caring program. 237 00:13:06,330 --> 00:13:09,930 So it's faculty brilliance, a caring environment from, from 238 00:13:09,940 --> 00:13:13,800 the top, from us, the Deans, the, the, the team, student 239 00:13:13,810 --> 00:13:16,460 advising team and then technology, right? 240 00:13:16,470 --> 00:13:20,210 You cannot forget how about advancements have happened the 241 00:13:20,220 --> 00:13:23,240 last five years alone, in the last year alone, even including 242 00:13:23,250 --> 00:13:25,280 AI. We are a school that are keeping 243 00:13:25,290 --> 00:13:29,120 an eye on every advancement of technology, how to put it to 244 00:13:29,130 --> 00:13:32,600 use, how to make the learning more effective, more fun with 245 00:13:32,610 --> 00:13:36,740 more cases, more examples, and to create those discussion 246 00:13:36,750 --> 00:13:40,200 forums and communities online so that for those people who have 247 00:13:40,210 --> 00:13:43,900 time and they can join, they have a secondary place to learn, 248 00:13:43,910 --> 00:13:47,300 not just the professor, but also their peers and others. 249 00:13:47,310 --> 00:13:51,220 We, we include alumni engagements with alumnis and 250 00:13:51,230 --> 00:13:56,980 talks about from time management to success after law school. 251 00:13:57,100 --> 00:14:00,020 Because at the end of the day, you want to see that end result 252 00:14:00,030 --> 00:14:02,560 and get a better job or you know, whatever you want to 253 00:14:02,570 --> 00:14:05,070 achieve with degrees. So there is a little bit of 254 00:14:05,080 --> 00:14:08,510 everything and it's up to you to to engage. 255 00:14:08,520 --> 00:14:13,380 And I was a very busy student. Like I wanted A's, I wanted to 256 00:14:13,390 --> 00:14:15,780 do well. So I went to many events, but I 257 00:14:15,790 --> 00:14:18,370 was very quiet. I wasn't as engaged in the first 258 00:14:18,380 --> 00:14:20,790 semester especially. And that's OK. 259 00:14:20,860 --> 00:14:22,410 You're going to find your own pace. 260 00:14:22,420 --> 00:14:25,610 This is your own, you make your own LM in this program. 261 00:14:25,660 --> 00:14:28,240 But understanding that you're not going to fall through the 262 00:14:28,250 --> 00:14:32,870 cracks because we will make sure that you are engaged is key. 263 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:37,550 And I'm hopeful that with this kind of strategy and philosophy 264 00:14:37,560 --> 00:14:41,030 of care, they will complete the program, they will feel more 265 00:14:41,040 --> 00:14:44,470 engaged, and they can take initiatives just like in life 266 00:14:44,480 --> 00:14:47,240 programs, right? During COVID, we did a lot of 267 00:14:47,250 --> 00:14:51,020 online conferences and discussions with alumni all over 268 00:14:51,030 --> 00:14:54,340 the world, with professionals. And that exists. 269 00:14:54,350 --> 00:14:57,440 The online sphere continues, Zoom calls continue. 270 00:14:57,450 --> 00:15:02,350 Even though live campuses have come back and work has come 271 00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:05,240 back, a lot of things still happen online. 272 00:15:05,250 --> 00:15:08,820 So this is an opportunity for students who have initiatives to 273 00:15:08,830 --> 00:15:13,620 organize events on their own and with us with alumni to kind of 274 00:15:13,630 --> 00:15:16,870 see that professional growth in addition to their learning. 275 00:15:16,970 --> 00:15:19,980 So it's a little bit of both. It's us caring for you, but also 276 00:15:19,990 --> 00:15:23,860 the students taking that active role in getting the most out of 277 00:15:23,870 --> 00:15:25,540 it. And of course, the technology 278 00:15:25,550 --> 00:15:30,170 allows them access to library services, library tools for 279 00:15:30,180 --> 00:15:32,510 lawyers. Access to library and resources 280 00:15:32,520 --> 00:15:35,410 is like tools and knives for surgeons, right? 281 00:15:35,420 --> 00:15:38,630 All the medical tools. So we are doing our best to give 282 00:15:38,640 --> 00:15:41,730 online students as much access to what we offer to live 283 00:15:41,740 --> 00:15:45,430 students as possible. And if they take full advantage 284 00:15:45,440 --> 00:15:48,310 of these tools, they will have a great experience and thrive. 285 00:15:48,320 --> 00:15:51,570 That's fantastic. So going into the the needy 286 00:15:51,580 --> 00:15:54,550 greedies of the program here, I'd love to hear a little more 287 00:15:54,560 --> 00:15:57,570 about, you know, what kinds of courses the students can expect 288 00:15:57,580 --> 00:16:00,950 to take and how this curriculum prepares them for practice. 289 00:16:01,040 --> 00:16:04,410 And if we can go a little bit on our most classes, you know, 290 00:16:04,420 --> 00:16:08,190 mandatory and all students will take the same program or how 291 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,050 much can you personalize it and make it customized to your own 292 00:16:11,180 --> 00:16:14,360 experience and are there really to prepare that for practice, be 293 00:16:14,370 --> 00:16:17,520 it in the US or internationally? It's another great question 294 00:16:17,530 --> 00:16:21,850 because we want to be effective and to save time to these 295 00:16:21,860 --> 00:16:24,280 students, right? So the majority of the classes 296 00:16:24,290 --> 00:16:27,840 are going to be bar required courses, bar related courses 297 00:16:27,950 --> 00:16:32,450 because the main purpose is to be successful with the bar, 298 00:16:32,460 --> 00:16:34,160 whether it's the sea or California. 299 00:16:34,210 --> 00:16:36,300 So yes, they are fundamental courses. 300 00:16:36,310 --> 00:16:39,980 They are aware they create a well-rounded lawyer right for 301 00:16:40,030 --> 00:16:43,500 all the major subjects in explored in law schools in the 302 00:16:43,510 --> 00:16:45,900 United States. But they are guided by three 303 00:16:45,910 --> 00:16:48,940 main requirements from the bars. And that's in the live program 304 00:16:48,950 --> 00:16:51,960 too, although the live program has more offerings because 305 00:16:51,970 --> 00:16:55,570 obviously it's, it's easier to run something in person then 306 00:16:55,620 --> 00:17:00,310 than it is to be online. But the three main kind of pools 307 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:04,109 or requirements that the we have to follow with the bar is at #1 308 00:17:04,119 --> 00:17:07,480 for whether it's Washington, DC or California bar, they require 309 00:17:07,490 --> 00:17:10,349 students to finish in an ABA approved school. 310 00:17:10,460 --> 00:17:13,810 So Anella Lamb that meets 32 that requirement, right? 311 00:17:13,819 --> 00:17:17,490 And Cardozo is an LM is a, is a school that is may be approved. 312 00:17:17,500 --> 00:17:21,210 And the LM program falls into that category of meeting the 313 00:17:21,280 --> 00:17:24,950 eligibility requirements. And under that umbrella of being 314 00:17:24,960 --> 00:17:29,150 in an ABA approved school, the L program has to include credit 315 00:17:29,160 --> 00:17:32,900 hours of study in courses covering subjects tested on the 316 00:17:32,910 --> 00:17:36,310 DC or California bar. What are these courses, right? 317 00:17:36,380 --> 00:17:39,640 You want to explore things that are already tested. 318 00:17:39,730 --> 00:17:43,060 That means it's contracts, it's going to be towards property, 319 00:17:43,070 --> 00:17:46,260 criminal law, constitutional law, Civil Procedure. 320 00:17:46,310 --> 00:17:50,770 So as we go, students can take a workload that works for them, 321 00:17:50,780 --> 00:17:52,680 right? Flexibility is the priority 322 00:17:52,690 --> 00:17:54,650 here. So you might take two courses in 323 00:17:54,660 --> 00:17:58,100 the spring, for example, Civil Procedure and constitutional law 324 00:17:58,170 --> 00:18:01,460 and then two courses in the summer, 2 courses in the fall 325 00:18:01,470 --> 00:18:04,190 depending on your schedule. Or you can meet all the 326 00:18:04,200 --> 00:18:07,740 requirements within 12 months. We are building this as we go 327 00:18:07,750 --> 00:18:10,920 and based on the fee, the feedback of of the students, we 328 00:18:10,930 --> 00:18:12,860 will continue to shape the curriculum. 329 00:18:12,910 --> 00:18:16,500 But for the start is definitely all the courses that are tested 330 00:18:16,510 --> 00:18:20,760 in the bars and are creating a well-rounded understanding of 331 00:18:20,770 --> 00:18:24,370 the US laws. In addition, we have a class 332 00:18:24,380 --> 00:18:28,330 introduction to U.S. law to give students that entry kind of 333 00:18:28,340 --> 00:18:32,410 point into the federal and state system of the US, the legal 334 00:18:32,420 --> 00:18:36,270 system, understanding the role of statutory law in case law, 335 00:18:36,280 --> 00:18:39,830 federal, state. So not many programs include an 336 00:18:39,840 --> 00:18:43,040 introduction to U.S. law when it comes to online learning. 337 00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:46,230 And then the other thing that we have highlighted as an elective 338 00:18:46,240 --> 00:18:49,750 is legal writing course. That doesn't happen often in 339 00:18:49,760 --> 00:18:52,900 online programs, but we think it's very important for 340 00:18:52,910 --> 00:18:55,810 international lawyers to hone their writing skills when 341 00:18:55,820 --> 00:18:58,810 writing to different audiences in the United States. 342 00:18:58,900 --> 00:19:01,550 So we're also going to make legal writing as one of the 343 00:19:01,560 --> 00:19:04,840 options in the program. And yes, some students might be 344 00:19:04,910 --> 00:19:08,560 if those students that choose a 12 month, you know, period of 345 00:19:08,570 --> 00:19:12,100 study, they might have all the classmates that program taking 346 00:19:12,110 --> 00:19:14,720 all the classes together. And then those that are part 347 00:19:14,730 --> 00:19:18,780 time might see a rotation and meet new students in the 348 00:19:18,790 --> 00:19:21,700 following year. But the idea is to focus on the 349 00:19:21,710 --> 00:19:24,540 substance and content required by the bars. 350 00:19:24,550 --> 00:19:27,080 And then finally, the third thing is that they have to 351 00:19:27,090 --> 00:19:29,860 complete the program. Partial completion is not enough 352 00:19:29,870 --> 00:19:32,680 for the bar. So you know, you are in an ABA 353 00:19:32,690 --> 00:19:37,140 approved school with a rich and rigorous curriculum that helps 354 00:19:37,150 --> 00:19:40,680 you meet and exceed in bar Washington, DC and, and 355 00:19:40,690 --> 00:19:43,280 California with tap professionals from all over the 356 00:19:43,290 --> 00:19:46,510 world that we select. And then you have to complete, 357 00:19:46,580 --> 00:19:48,310 right? Those three have to go in 358 00:19:48,380 --> 00:19:52,350 together in order for you to, to to do the bar exam in DC and 359 00:19:52,360 --> 00:19:54,710 California. So that's been guiding us 360 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,530 mostly. We may add more electives as we 361 00:19:57,540 --> 00:20:02,000 go, but knowing that most people are paying the the tuition 362 00:20:02,010 --> 00:20:05,040 dollars to be successful with the bar, those are the courses 363 00:20:05,050 --> 00:20:08,080 that we have prioritized. Fantastic, and I really 364 00:20:08,090 --> 00:20:11,260 appreciated what you said about, you know, making sure that 365 00:20:11,270 --> 00:20:13,860 students feel like they don't fall through the cracks. 366 00:20:13,870 --> 00:20:17,320 That will definitely be one of the the very key points here. 367 00:20:17,330 --> 00:20:21,460 So so support really is often key to succeed in any program 368 00:20:21,550 --> 00:20:24,780 and in graduate programs when you're an international students 369 00:20:24,850 --> 00:20:27,190 even more so. I was wondering if you could 370 00:20:27,200 --> 00:20:29,890 tell us a little more maybe about, you know, what kind of 371 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:34,340 advising mentorship, faculty access the students who have 372 00:20:34,410 --> 00:20:37,000 throughout these specific online program. 373 00:20:37,070 --> 00:20:40,100 Well, the good news is that the online program offers the same 374 00:20:40,110 --> 00:20:44,990 rigorous academic program that we offer on campus, meaning the 375 00:20:45,000 --> 00:20:48,690 faculty is very driven to make sure the students are 376 00:20:48,700 --> 00:20:50,910 successful. That's how we have become one of 377 00:20:50,920 --> 00:20:52,710 the top schools in New York, right? 378 00:20:52,720 --> 00:20:56,410 Because the faculty cares and I as a Dean care. 379 00:20:56,460 --> 00:20:58,190 How does that what? Right? 380 00:20:58,260 --> 00:21:01,870 We see the activity of students. Technology allows us to see 381 00:21:01,880 --> 00:21:05,350 everything the students are doing online, sometimes more and 382 00:21:05,360 --> 00:21:07,590 better than in live programs, right? 383 00:21:07,660 --> 00:21:10,630 Because you go in a classroom in law school in America and there 384 00:21:10,640 --> 00:21:14,730 could be 100 student, you are engaging in the Socratic method. 385 00:21:14,780 --> 00:21:17,590 But sometimes the student might skip a reading or might skip an 386 00:21:17,600 --> 00:21:20,310 assignment and you won't know as as, as a professor in a live 387 00:21:20,320 --> 00:21:23,530 program online. We can see if you skipped, if 388 00:21:23,540 --> 00:21:26,580 you didn't answer questions, if you're not doing your lessons, 389 00:21:26,590 --> 00:21:30,120 all your activity is monitored. And that's a great tool for 390 00:21:30,130 --> 00:21:31,900 faculty. Who cares, right? 391 00:21:31,970 --> 00:21:35,420 They can flag a student and say, hey, wow, I see this student 392 00:21:35,470 --> 00:21:38,720 didn't meet, didn't meet the assignment this week. 393 00:21:38,790 --> 00:21:40,980 Can you give him a call? Should I give him a call? 394 00:21:41,030 --> 00:21:43,320 What's going on? Perhaps there is a one-on-one 395 00:21:43,330 --> 00:21:46,670 that they need with me, time with me, time with a peer, time 396 00:21:46,680 --> 00:21:50,340 with an advisor. So, so that faculty monitoring 397 00:21:50,350 --> 00:21:53,270 is key and it comes from a place of care, right? 398 00:21:53,280 --> 00:21:55,200 Because we want this program to be successful. 399 00:21:55,250 --> 00:22:00,130 Number 2 is it is true that when you study law in America, I say 400 00:22:00,140 --> 00:22:04,520 this to my students every year, there are some expectations that 401 00:22:04,530 --> 00:22:07,960 you don't see in colleges or back home when you are studying 402 00:22:07,970 --> 00:22:10,560 for an LLB. American law schools expect 403 00:22:10,570 --> 00:22:13,100 students to be very independent learners. 404 00:22:13,170 --> 00:22:16,580 They're supposed to know what are the issues of today being 405 00:22:16,590 --> 00:22:20,380 discussed in class, What is the syllabus ahead of class? 406 00:22:20,390 --> 00:22:24,360 What are the readings before class so that I can be prepared 407 00:22:24,490 --> 00:22:28,860 for that discussion assignment, quiz, whatever it is, right? 408 00:22:28,870 --> 00:22:32,620 And if there is a topic that you are asked to study, the 409 00:22:32,630 --> 00:22:35,670 materials given in classroom may not be enough. 410 00:22:35,710 --> 00:22:38,880 So if you still have questions, you are expected to go to the 411 00:22:38,890 --> 00:22:40,290 professor and ask those questions. 412 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:43,800 You're expected to do deeper research, whether it's in LEXIS, 413 00:22:43,950 --> 00:22:47,620 Westlaw, whatever tools, AI tools that they give you, you're 414 00:22:47,630 --> 00:22:51,410 expected to dive deeper because you have to understand the topic 415 00:22:51,420 --> 00:22:54,540 before you move forward. So that independence learning 416 00:22:54,550 --> 00:22:59,410 will be part of our orientation to students online with me so 417 00:22:59,420 --> 00:23:02,750 that they, they do see the difference between learning back 418 00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:07,050 home in an LLB program where a lot of our professors, how can I 419 00:23:07,060 --> 00:23:10,990 say you were given what to study and not much room to question 420 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:13,030 what you study or to question deeper. 421 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:16,210 You basically had to do as you're told, not in the United 422 00:23:16,220 --> 00:23:18,690 States. You have to do what you're told 423 00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:21,530 in the syllabus. But there is more of like that 424 00:23:21,600 --> 00:23:24,230 independent pursuit of that knowledge. 425 00:23:24,300 --> 00:23:26,940 And we're seeking individuals like that for this program. 426 00:23:26,950 --> 00:23:29,150 And we're lucky that in the live program, we've always had 427 00:23:29,160 --> 00:23:30,970 excellent students to do very well. 428 00:23:31,040 --> 00:23:34,600 And so that will translate online so that they can be 429 00:23:34,610 --> 00:23:38,040 engaged, they, they can enjoy the, the lessons, do those 430 00:23:38,050 --> 00:23:41,260 squeezes, do those case studies and whatever they're given 431 00:23:41,270 --> 00:23:43,280 online and probably a little more. 432 00:23:43,290 --> 00:23:45,800 So it's up to them how much involvement they want with the 433 00:23:45,810 --> 00:23:48,480 materials and the program. It's, it's both ways. 434 00:23:48,490 --> 00:23:52,380 The personalized academic support, I would add, is a very 435 00:23:52,390 --> 00:23:56,200 niche existence of Cardozo. It's a very unique aspect of 436 00:23:56,210 --> 00:23:58,820 Cardozo is why I chose this school in the 1st place. 437 00:23:58,830 --> 00:24:02,720 I felt like a, from admissions to student advising to 438 00:24:02,730 --> 00:24:06,540 professors, everybody cared about what I wanted to learn and 439 00:24:06,550 --> 00:24:09,900 how I wanted to get there. And maybe it has to do with the 440 00:24:09,910 --> 00:24:13,740 fact that we are very well positioned international 441 00:24:13,750 --> 00:24:16,600 program, but we don't have hundreds of students. 442 00:24:16,670 --> 00:24:20,980 Each fall we have about 60 to 70 students and each January we 443 00:24:20,990 --> 00:24:24,850 have about 30 to 40 students. So they're kind of smaller 444 00:24:24,860 --> 00:24:28,880 compared to other big programs. That smaller approach has given 445 00:24:28,890 --> 00:24:31,790 us the opportunity to get to know individually the students 446 00:24:31,800 --> 00:24:35,330 and to give them an individual attention and advice. 447 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:39,730 So as I said, from admissions to graduation and beyond, the 448 00:24:39,740 --> 00:24:42,120 students meet with me. They talk to me about their 449 00:24:42,130 --> 00:24:44,110 goals. If their goals are shifting, we 450 00:24:44,120 --> 00:24:46,290 discuss them. Again, nothing is set in stone. 451 00:24:46,300 --> 00:24:50,460 We want to see flexibility so that they can succeed and pursue 452 00:24:50,470 --> 00:24:53,850 what they're passionate about. So that kind of faculty care, 453 00:24:53,900 --> 00:24:58,110 individual expectation of being driven to study, to want to 454 00:24:58,120 --> 00:25:01,410 learn and to be engaged with the materials and that personal 455 00:25:01,420 --> 00:25:06,090 attention from me and my team really should be a great launch 456 00:25:06,100 --> 00:25:08,690 for these students. And there could be times when 457 00:25:08,700 --> 00:25:11,090 they wanna take a break. They could take a semester break 458 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:13,310 if they want to. We don't encourage it because 459 00:25:13,320 --> 00:25:15,790 there is there is a rhythm when it comes to law school. 460 00:25:15,800 --> 00:25:19,960 You want to stay in that rhythm. But they don't risk failure with 461 00:25:19,970 --> 00:25:23,190 these tools because it's designed to see them successful. 462 00:25:23,200 --> 00:25:27,070 And I truly feel like every student I've talked to so far 463 00:25:27,120 --> 00:25:29,350 for this program, they are amazing. 464 00:25:29,360 --> 00:25:32,310 Their goals are amazing. I push them to pursue them. 465 00:25:32,380 --> 00:25:34,670 I see that their challenges are there. 466 00:25:34,740 --> 00:25:38,050 There's challenges with every graduate program, especially for 467 00:25:38,100 --> 00:25:41,750 working professionals. But I can see them succeed and I 468 00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:44,380 can see them do the bar to become the attorneys they want 469 00:25:44,390 --> 00:25:46,950 to become. And I will be so proud when they 470 00:25:46,960 --> 00:25:49,050 succeed. So it's on me. 471 00:25:49,090 --> 00:25:51,240 I don't want them to fail. That's amazing. 472 00:25:51,290 --> 00:25:54,400 So I, I love that. I love how everybody set up to 473 00:25:54,410 --> 00:25:57,240 succeed in this program. And then if I may ask a little 474 00:25:57,250 --> 00:26:00,540 bit more about, you know, the online classroom environment and 475 00:26:00,550 --> 00:26:02,200 all of that. I'm curious too. 476 00:26:02,210 --> 00:26:05,080 Those students get to interact, collaborate. 477 00:26:05,140 --> 00:26:08,480 How do they stay connected? So how do the students end up, 478 00:26:08,490 --> 00:26:11,060 you know, getting to know their LM connections? 479 00:26:11,070 --> 00:26:13,580 I know that, you know, classmates are usually, you 480 00:26:13,590 --> 00:26:16,220 know, a great source of lifelong friendship. 481 00:26:16,230 --> 00:26:19,080 I'm sure you definitely connected with those spheres of 482 00:26:19,090 --> 00:26:22,200 yours during your LM. It is very much my experience as 483 00:26:22,210 --> 00:26:24,260 well. And how does that happen in this 484 00:26:24,270 --> 00:26:27,290 environment? About making friends for life, 485 00:26:27,300 --> 00:26:31,230 right in the Netherland program is so precious to select people 486 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,730 from all over the world who wish to become lawyers in 487 00:26:33,740 --> 00:26:36,210 sophisticated jurisdictions in the United States. 488 00:26:36,260 --> 00:26:41,130 Just saying that out loud, like an American going abroad to 489 00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:44,350 study law in a foreign language and become an attorney in one 490 00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:46,980 year is it would be a huge achievement. 491 00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:50,350 And so for all these people coming to New York or coming 492 00:26:50,360 --> 00:26:55,010 online to this program to meet the power requirements, it is a 493 00:26:55,020 --> 00:26:58,470 huge achievement. So those driven people and those 494 00:26:58,480 --> 00:27:02,050 driven lawyers want to connect. They're already kind of go 495 00:27:02,060 --> 00:27:05,570 getters, right? So it's impossible to avoid 496 00:27:05,580 --> 00:27:07,750 connecting in a classroom learning. 497 00:27:07,760 --> 00:27:10,270 The lessons will be asynchronous, but there will be 498 00:27:10,280 --> 00:27:14,180 group, team, team groups, right, for each class so students can 499 00:27:14,190 --> 00:27:18,180 see who's in that class, what's that person's e-mail and contact 500 00:27:18,350 --> 00:27:21,160 professor might do group studies depending on the topics. 501 00:27:21,170 --> 00:27:24,200 You're gonna have some theoretical aspects of learning 502 00:27:24,210 --> 00:27:27,380 as well as practical aspects and exercises and case studies. 503 00:27:27,590 --> 00:27:30,600 But also me being the leader of the program, I want to see 504 00:27:30,610 --> 00:27:33,640 students connecting already. We're doing that online with 505 00:27:33,650 --> 00:27:36,520 admissions questions, so when they meet each other and they 506 00:27:36,530 --> 00:27:40,150 learn from each other's goals already in Zoom, just like all 507 00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,180 the live students who are coming in August, so far they haven't 508 00:27:43,190 --> 00:27:46,070 met each other but online. So most of the friendships have 509 00:27:46,080 --> 00:27:48,480 been created before they come to New York. 510 00:27:48,550 --> 00:27:52,390 So that same methodology will be implemented online so that they 511 00:27:52,400 --> 00:27:55,450 know each other, they know their e-mail, their phone, there is a 512 00:27:55,460 --> 00:27:58,330 quick Zoom that they might want with me during office hours. 513 00:27:58,340 --> 00:28:01,640 So today with technology is extremely easy to stay connected 514 00:28:01,650 --> 00:28:03,330 wherever they are in the world, right? 515 00:28:03,340 --> 00:28:08,170 And I am confident that because of these tools, technological 516 00:28:08,180 --> 00:28:12,120 tools and that driven kind of classroom environment, because 517 00:28:12,130 --> 00:28:15,810 they are driven people, I think it will be a great way to stay 518 00:28:15,820 --> 00:28:18,370 connected. I've had students who say I wish 519 00:28:18,380 --> 00:28:21,320 to organize the talk on this development that happened in my 520 00:28:21,330 --> 00:28:24,450 country, Laws changed on privacy in my country. 521 00:28:24,460 --> 00:28:28,120 I'd like to hold the talk with classmates or with alumni in 522 00:28:28,130 --> 00:28:30,670 this area. And often we do those in Zoom. 523 00:28:30,720 --> 00:28:34,970 Possible to come to New York. So there will be a full array of 524 00:28:34,980 --> 00:28:37,910 opportunities for them to be engaged, whether it's with the 525 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:41,540 class program project, whether it's with one-on-one, with the 526 00:28:41,550 --> 00:28:43,770 professor, with me, with each other. 527 00:28:43,880 --> 00:28:47,170 The sky is the limit because the technology allows us to do that 528 00:28:47,180 --> 00:28:49,700 and sometimes time difference in the challenge. 529 00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:54,730 But it hasn't stopped us from doing business in all these 70 530 00:28:54,740 --> 00:28:56,990 countries. So it shouldn't stop, stop us 531 00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:58,670 online. That's fantastic. 532 00:28:58,730 --> 00:29:01,230 Another one of the big points that I thought it was very 533 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:04,390 interesting and I think we should talk about here is 534 00:29:04,400 --> 00:29:07,450 affordability for this program. Really big factor. 535 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:11,450 So I notice that it's about $1400 per credit. 536 00:29:11,540 --> 00:29:17,140 And I know sometimes finances do play a big role program. 537 00:29:17,250 --> 00:29:19,060 So yeah. If you don't mind me asking 538 00:29:19,070 --> 00:29:22,840 about that, how is Cardozo able to offer such a strong value 539 00:29:22,850 --> 00:29:26,460 even for international students? It comes from a place of care. 540 00:29:26,470 --> 00:29:30,600 A lot of our students that come from around the world really 541 00:29:30,610 --> 00:29:35,420 cannot afford the 100,000 plus that you need to come to a live 542 00:29:35,430 --> 00:29:37,840 LM, whether it's in New York or anywhere else. 543 00:29:37,890 --> 00:29:40,900 Helen programs are very expensive and only becoming more 544 00:29:40,910 --> 00:29:44,030 expensive. I postpone my studies by 8 years 545 00:29:44,040 --> 00:29:47,440 because I wasn't financially ready and I I've seen through 546 00:29:47,450 --> 00:29:50,550 all my travels around the world that people it's almost like 547 00:29:50,560 --> 00:29:53,920 catching up, treading water. Like you tried to save money to 548 00:29:53,930 --> 00:29:58,800 start an LLC, but it just goes up and up and it's a huge 549 00:29:59,690 --> 00:30:01,920 problem for most of international lawyers. 550 00:30:02,390 --> 00:30:06,340 So out of 21 million lawyers that exist around the world, 551 00:30:06,390 --> 00:30:11,560 only 0.03% are able to come to a Netherland program in the United 552 00:30:11,570 --> 00:30:14,560 States. So it's a very small number of 553 00:30:14,570 --> 00:30:17,980 people. Because of affordability and 554 00:30:18,090 --> 00:30:21,630 given the support of our alumni, the great scholarships we've 555 00:30:21,640 --> 00:30:25,940 been able to raise, we're able to launch this program with that 556 00:30:25,950 --> 00:30:30,020 philosophy that made our programs very successful life. 557 00:30:30,070 --> 00:30:33,180 The philosophy of care, passion for teaching, passion for 558 00:30:33,190 --> 00:30:37,380 success, the need and wants to grow our reputation globally. 559 00:30:37,450 --> 00:30:40,980 So it's an investment on the part of Cardozo right to want to 560 00:30:40,990 --> 00:30:44,110 become more globally recognized, more present. 561 00:30:44,160 --> 00:30:47,690 And given that this program was shaped by the demand in the 562 00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,570 market, lawyers who said we can't come to New York, it's 563 00:30:50,580 --> 00:30:53,030 impossible to leave the kids or the the job. 564 00:30:53,080 --> 00:30:56,610 So we're hopeful that by discounting or lowering the 565 00:30:56,620 --> 00:31:00,070 tuition investing in this program, we can attract the best 566 00:31:00,080 --> 00:31:02,950 and the brightest around the world who cannot come to New 567 00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,000 York. And then it will grow and it 568 00:31:05,010 --> 00:31:07,950 will be, you know, fruitful for Cardozo as well As for the 569 00:31:07,960 --> 00:31:11,450 future of online students. So it's a little bit of, it 570 00:31:11,460 --> 00:31:14,470 takes both of us to make it successful, our investment, but 571 00:31:14,480 --> 00:31:19,230 also the applicants who are who are getting into this program to 572 00:31:20,470 --> 00:31:22,630 trust that this will work for them. 573 00:31:22,840 --> 00:31:26,130 Even though it's discounted, it's still a lot of money for 574 00:31:26,140 --> 00:31:29,070 most countries right now. For example, in order to do the 575 00:31:29,080 --> 00:31:32,290 DC bar, the LM will require 26 credits. 576 00:31:32,300 --> 00:31:36,150 That's about $38,500 for the whole program. 577 00:31:36,220 --> 00:31:41,670 Yes, it's much cheaper than the 75,000 or so that we charge for 578 00:31:41,680 --> 00:31:45,190 the Life Tuition program. So it is hugely discounted, but 579 00:31:45,200 --> 00:31:47,060 it's still a lot of money for many people. 580 00:31:47,070 --> 00:31:51,670 We have secured an additional 10% discount for strong students 581 00:31:51,680 --> 00:31:55,510 and those who apply early. I was just told today that the 582 00:31:55,600 --> 00:31:58,850 committee will extend the early application deadline to 583 00:31:58,860 --> 00:32:02,030 September 1st so that more people can get a discount of 584 00:32:02,040 --> 00:32:04,670 10%. Used to be July 15th. 585 00:32:04,680 --> 00:32:08,250 We extended it a little bit because some candidates are 586 00:32:08,260 --> 00:32:11,610 still working on their paperwork to submit their applications. 587 00:32:11,620 --> 00:32:14,770 And yeah, we wanna make it as affordable as possible, 588 00:32:14,780 --> 00:32:18,570 understanding that it's a huge investment on our part, but with 589 00:32:18,580 --> 00:32:23,180 the goal that in the next 5 years it will transform people, 590 00:32:23,190 --> 00:32:25,830 hundreds of people's lives. International lawyers who want 591 00:32:25,840 --> 00:32:28,210 to access US learning and US Baric. 592 00:32:28,220 --> 00:32:31,320 Them that's fantastic. I love that it's really mission 593 00:32:31,330 --> 00:32:35,410 driven and something that I that I was also thinking you you did 594 00:32:35,420 --> 00:32:39,450 mention that you have alumni across over 70 countries and I 595 00:32:39,460 --> 00:32:42,790 was preparing for this podcast. I I did a little research and 596 00:32:42,800 --> 00:32:47,310 also learned that you have over 16,000 yes, as well. 597 00:32:47,320 --> 00:32:49,830 So that's a very strong alumni network. 598 00:32:49,880 --> 00:32:51,720 Yeah. I'd love to ask a little bit as 599 00:32:51,730 --> 00:32:54,170 well if there is any plans. You know, you, you did mention 600 00:32:54,180 --> 00:32:57,210 that there is sometimes Courier talks that those alumni 601 00:32:57,220 --> 00:33:00,430 communities are plugged in, but how does the online MLM also 602 00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:02,350 help? The students should tap into 603 00:33:02,360 --> 00:33:05,670 that network of alumni for career opportunities. 604 00:33:05,760 --> 00:33:08,900 The same approach that we use for live students, right? 605 00:33:08,910 --> 00:33:12,120 LLM students are very busy. As I said, they are asked to do 606 00:33:12,130 --> 00:33:15,830 a lot within a year or two, meet all the bar requirements, study 607 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:19,810 hard, learn to think like US lawyers, go deeper into their 608 00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:23,090 writing skills and research skills in a new jurisdiction 609 00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:25,890 like the US, right? It's a lot of demand. 610 00:33:25,900 --> 00:33:28,760 They're going to be busy, but by presenting them with 611 00:33:28,770 --> 00:33:32,250 opportunities to learn from the stories of previous students, 612 00:33:32,340 --> 00:33:35,610 even if it's once a month, a large stock in Zoom with a 613 00:33:35,620 --> 00:33:39,410 German lawyer or a French lawyer or a Chinese lawyer, he gets 614 00:33:39,420 --> 00:33:43,510 them outside of the books and the intensity of legal studies 615 00:33:43,520 --> 00:33:47,420 in the day-to-day life, it makes them think like, oh, I can be 616 00:33:47,430 --> 00:33:51,290 that lawyer or I can do, I can solve such issues, or that 617 00:33:51,300 --> 00:33:54,750 student was in my shoes two years or three years ago and now 618 00:33:54,760 --> 00:33:57,170 look where they are. It gives you that inspiration. 619 00:33:57,180 --> 00:34:00,250 And often this happens online, even for the live students. 620 00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:04,390 Additionally, when you graduate, every year we hold the global 621 00:34:04,400 --> 00:34:07,430 alumni event and we change the different cities. 622 00:34:07,440 --> 00:34:10,530 Last year it was in London. This past May, the previous year 623 00:34:10,540 --> 00:34:13,360 was in Milan. The year before that it was in 624 00:34:13,370 --> 00:34:15,070 Paris. Next year is gonna be in 625 00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:17,580 Bologna. So every year we meet with 626 00:34:17,590 --> 00:34:21,280 international lawyers and online students will be part of those 627 00:34:21,330 --> 00:34:24,380 invitations where they're not excluded from the community. 628 00:34:24,429 --> 00:34:29,219 Whether you finished the LM 1020 years ago or you are just 629 00:34:29,230 --> 00:34:32,050 graduating from the online program, you will be part of 630 00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:35,639 those networks and community engagement. 631 00:34:35,690 --> 00:34:38,480 Because as I said, it hasn't stopped us being across the 632 00:34:38,489 --> 00:34:41,620 world, hasn't stopped us from building that community, and it 633 00:34:41,630 --> 00:34:45,139 shouldn't stop the LM online students from being part of it. 634 00:34:45,150 --> 00:34:48,100 And it does start with you. Like, how much do you want to be 635 00:34:48,110 --> 00:34:51,260 engaged? If you are seeking a mentor, an 636 00:34:51,270 --> 00:34:54,480 alumni mentor from your country, we will help you with that. 637 00:34:54,489 --> 00:34:58,200 Whether you are five students on campus or online, there is no 638 00:34:58,210 --> 00:35:01,590 difference. We want to see you be inspired 639 00:35:01,600 --> 00:35:03,990 and connected to previous students and alumni. 640 00:35:04,060 --> 00:35:06,990 Also, business associations and organizations. 641 00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:10,360 Every activity that we do around the world with various 642 00:35:10,370 --> 00:35:14,090 organizations and employers, all nine students will be invited to 643 00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:17,070 those. I want them to see the online 644 00:35:17,080 --> 00:35:21,230 experience not as less than the live experience, but actually as 645 00:35:21,240 --> 00:35:23,970 more because they should have more time. 646 00:35:23,980 --> 00:35:26,880 They don't have to commute to New York or to Cardozo. 647 00:35:27,120 --> 00:35:31,230 They should have more time to do more with the cellular right, in 648 00:35:31,240 --> 00:35:33,970 terms of networking, especially if they're practicing lawyers 649 00:35:33,980 --> 00:35:37,190 already and they know exactly what they want out of this LM. 650 00:35:37,280 --> 00:35:40,030 They should be articulating that from the start. 651 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:44,710 And we will help them connect to those people and, and leaders 652 00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:48,590 and alumni and whatever they're looking for, because that's what 653 00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:52,810 the community of a law school is, is not just to learn, but 654 00:35:52,820 --> 00:35:56,310 it's also to connect and give and take just as a community 655 00:35:56,320 --> 00:35:59,110 does. So I'm more excited to see how 656 00:35:59,120 --> 00:36:03,060 this class, the new class starts in January, will engage with 657 00:36:03,070 --> 00:36:06,050 these tools and we'll continue to learn from what they need so 658 00:36:06,060 --> 00:36:07,970 that we make this experience better. 659 00:36:07,980 --> 00:36:11,110 Accessing networks and being important members of that 660 00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:13,230 network is hugely important to me. 661 00:36:13,280 --> 00:36:16,010 So we'll be continuing to evolve on that. 662 00:36:16,020 --> 00:36:18,770 Amazing. Well, now let's talk about, you 663 00:36:18,780 --> 00:36:21,670 know, people who are interested in joining the program, you 664 00:36:21,680 --> 00:36:23,300 know, about this extended deadline. 665 00:36:23,310 --> 00:36:26,100 So whoever is interested can definitely, you know, start 666 00:36:26,110 --> 00:36:29,920 putting things together. Sometimes an LM is the fruit of 667 00:36:29,930 --> 00:36:32,020 much organization and, and, and all of that. 668 00:36:32,030 --> 00:36:35,300 But also I feel like sometimes and in different circumstances, 669 00:36:35,310 --> 00:36:37,980 it also could be, you know, something that you look now, you 670 00:36:37,990 --> 00:36:41,220 see that it's possible within, you know, your financial 671 00:36:41,230 --> 00:36:44,690 circumstances or your career ambitions right now. 672 00:36:44,700 --> 00:36:47,570 And maybe you want to do that right now after hearing all the 673 00:36:47,650 --> 00:36:50,860 awesome benefits. So if I'm considering applying 674 00:36:50,870 --> 00:36:54,200 Denval, what advice would you give to help? 675 00:36:54,210 --> 00:36:57,320 You know, students put together a strong and compelling 676 00:36:57,430 --> 00:37:00,460 application that will help them to get into the program. 677 00:37:00,530 --> 00:37:03,310 It's another great question because often as sporting 678 00:37:03,320 --> 00:37:06,420 lawyers and students, you feel intimidated by the application 679 00:37:06,430 --> 00:37:08,430 process. In American law schools, we have 680 00:37:08,440 --> 00:37:13,000 heard a lot of stories of how competitive it is and how hard 681 00:37:13,010 --> 00:37:16,420 it is to get in and how much paperwork is required. 682 00:37:16,430 --> 00:37:18,610 And personal statement. What is personal statement? 683 00:37:18,620 --> 00:37:21,540 Nobody asked us a personal statement back home, right? 684 00:37:21,830 --> 00:37:26,580 So it could be, it can sound intimidating, but it's just like 685 00:37:26,590 --> 00:37:30,800 every other written project. The moment you start doing it, 686 00:37:30,850 --> 00:37:34,570 it will come. So start by checking the 687 00:37:34,580 --> 00:37:38,100 requirements on the website, looking at the actual 688 00:37:38,170 --> 00:37:41,380 application form. It's simply as easy as that. 689 00:37:41,450 --> 00:37:44,480 Fill out an application form. You will be part of our system, 690 00:37:44,570 --> 00:37:47,140 which means you will be part of our invitations to the Zoom. 691 00:37:47,220 --> 00:37:49,330 All we do Zoom calls on admission. 692 00:37:49,340 --> 00:37:51,970 If you're stuck with admission questions, you'll have that 693 00:37:51,980 --> 00:37:54,390 support, right? Then the good news is that you 694 00:37:54,400 --> 00:37:57,450 can apply directly to Cardozo, which is $0.00. 695 00:37:57,460 --> 00:38:01,140 You don't have to pay any fees, or you can apply via LSC, the 696 00:38:01,150 --> 00:38:05,390 Law School Assembly Council, and if you have a file there, you 697 00:38:05,400 --> 00:38:08,820 can directly send it to Cardozo. We don't charge fees. 698 00:38:08,830 --> 00:38:12,890 As I mentioned, LSC has their own fees, but if you're already 699 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:16,530 part of that system, we allow you that flexibility to apply 700 00:38:16,540 --> 00:38:19,690 there. And we think that lawyers that 701 00:38:19,750 --> 00:38:23,370 share their stories and their goals honestly, without making 702 00:38:23,380 --> 00:38:26,090 it fancy, without making it complicated. 703 00:38:26,160 --> 00:38:30,330 I'm a lawyer who emigrated in America and I wanted to become 704 00:38:30,340 --> 00:38:32,440 an attorney in New York. Here is my story. 705 00:38:32,450 --> 00:38:36,720 I left my country in a war time and I had to learn a new 706 00:38:36,730 --> 00:38:39,670 language and learn how to survive in a new country and I 707 00:38:39,680 --> 00:38:41,280 did it and now I'm ready for law school. 708 00:38:41,290 --> 00:38:44,360 That's what I wrote right Here is my letter of recommendation. 709 00:38:44,490 --> 00:38:47,340 You could send 2 letters of recommendations if you are a 710 00:38:47,350 --> 00:38:50,720 working professional, maybe one letter from a supervising 711 00:38:50,730 --> 00:38:55,220 attorney that has senior work or one letter from a professor. 712 00:38:55,230 --> 00:38:57,280 Sometimes letters of recommendations come from 713 00:38:57,290 --> 00:38:58,560 clients. It doesn't matter. 714 00:38:58,610 --> 00:39:02,300 So you need a strong personal statement with honest truth as 715 00:39:02,310 --> 00:39:05,560 to what you want out of this program and who you are as you 716 00:39:05,570 --> 00:39:08,380 may the letter of recommendation and your law school transcript. 717 00:39:08,390 --> 00:39:11,660 It's not complicated, right? If you have additional paperwork 718 00:39:11,670 --> 00:39:13,920 that you want to send, for example, if you have written 719 00:39:13,930 --> 00:39:18,070 something, an article or a blog, or if you are active in your 720 00:39:18,080 --> 00:39:22,670 profession, but maybe you hold Cle credits in your country or 721 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:24,690 the equivalent of that, just tell us. 722 00:39:24,800 --> 00:39:28,720 We want strong students and strong students are eligible for 723 00:39:28,730 --> 00:39:32,820 the Dean Merit Scholarship even beyond the September 1st or 15th 724 00:39:32,830 --> 00:39:34,570 deadline. I think it's September 15th. 725 00:39:34,640 --> 00:39:38,010 I will clarify it, But basically we're trying to encourage 726 00:39:38,020 --> 00:39:41,090 students to apply even in their business schedules to get either 727 00:39:41,100 --> 00:39:44,510 the early application discount, the 10% or the Dean Merit 728 00:39:44,520 --> 00:39:47,130 Scholarship. And by putting a strong 729 00:39:47,200 --> 00:39:50,570 application, you can benefit. A strong application is also 730 00:39:50,580 --> 00:39:54,150 important because there might be opportunities that professors or 731 00:39:54,160 --> 00:39:59,110 Deans want to you to access. And let's say they see the 732 00:39:59,120 --> 00:40:02,290 resume of the student and they say, oh, client was looking or 733 00:40:02,300 --> 00:40:04,590 an alarm was looking for a similar resume. 734 00:40:04,680 --> 00:40:07,890 Should I introduce them or should they apply to in, in our 735 00:40:07,900 --> 00:40:09,870 system? And when you encourage them to 736 00:40:09,880 --> 00:40:12,710 apply, apply. Having that strong file in 737 00:40:12,720 --> 00:40:16,170 admissions can help because we can look at the notes, we can 738 00:40:16,180 --> 00:40:18,810 look at those recommendations. It's like you already have this 739 00:40:18,880 --> 00:40:22,590 marketing tool with our system. Why not have it strong? 740 00:40:22,600 --> 00:40:25,350 Some people don't even write their name correctly and then 741 00:40:25,360 --> 00:40:27,790 they are about to graduate and they say, oh, I didn't write it 742 00:40:27,800 --> 00:40:29,650 correctly. I'd like to to change it. 743 00:40:29,660 --> 00:40:32,070 And why is it that you don't write your name correctly? 744 00:40:32,080 --> 00:40:35,530 You're a lawyer, right? So take your time, write it 745 00:40:35,540 --> 00:40:38,790 well, do a thorough application, write your law school name 746 00:40:38,800 --> 00:40:39,940 correctly. Don't take up. 747 00:40:40,030 --> 00:40:42,790 The deviations because all of those records will go to the 748 00:40:42,800 --> 00:40:45,520 bar. All of those records will be as 749 00:40:45,530 --> 00:40:47,460 part of your marketing as a lawyer. 750 00:40:47,530 --> 00:40:50,090 And don't feel intimidated. If you have questions, call the 751 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,760 admissions team. If you're stuck with a document, 752 00:40:52,770 --> 00:40:54,870 call us. If you're looking for English 753 00:40:54,880 --> 00:40:59,940 proficiency exams, usually we prefer TOEFL and IELTS, but 754 00:40:59,980 --> 00:41:03,260 students during COVID have taken other exams and will allow it, 755 00:41:03,270 --> 00:41:05,840 right? So if you are driven and you are 756 00:41:05,910 --> 00:41:08,840 really seeking to get into the program, there should be no 757 00:41:08,850 --> 00:41:10,690 barriers. You should definitely stay in 758 00:41:10,700 --> 00:41:14,220 touch with us and submit a strong application. 759 00:41:14,270 --> 00:41:17,460 Lastly, and should wrap up today's episode, what kind of 760 00:41:17,470 --> 00:41:20,880 impact do you hope that this online LLM will have on legal 761 00:41:20,890 --> 00:41:24,150 education and on the careers of this students enjoying it? 762 00:41:24,260 --> 00:41:28,730 Well, I want them to really think about the benefits of this 763 00:41:28,740 --> 00:41:32,200 investment. When I came into the States, I 764 00:41:32,210 --> 00:41:35,210 thought just working in a law firm and I had, I was very lucky 765 00:41:35,220 --> 00:41:37,550 to have a great job in a law firm in New Jersey and then 766 00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:39,950 another law firm. And there, there are some great 767 00:41:39,960 --> 00:41:43,750 opportunities to work in America or abroad in what you have 768 00:41:43,760 --> 00:41:46,490 achieved so far with the education you have so far. 769 00:41:46,500 --> 00:41:49,970 But nothing transformed me like this program. 770 00:41:50,040 --> 00:41:53,770 The way I think, the way I speak, the way I see the world, 771 00:41:53,820 --> 00:41:57,330 even though I'm not practicing law per se, just to be an 772 00:41:57,340 --> 00:42:03,160 inspiration to others and to think deeper, more critically, 773 00:42:03,210 --> 00:42:08,860 solve problems better to just such a versatile kind of number 774 00:42:08,870 --> 00:42:10,480 of skills that you get out of it. 775 00:42:10,550 --> 00:42:13,520 And then to do the bar exam and to say that I passed the bar 776 00:42:13,530 --> 00:42:16,560 exam with my first try and now I'm an attorney in New York or 777 00:42:16,570 --> 00:42:20,040 in DC or wherever you are. I think it elevates you in a 778 00:42:20,050 --> 00:42:23,100 different level whether you are back home or in the United 779 00:42:23,110 --> 00:42:26,060 States. And I enjoyed that wasn't it was 780 00:42:26,070 --> 00:42:28,560 a rigorous program. I worked very hard. 781 00:42:28,630 --> 00:42:31,160 It is not easy. I'm not saying this is easy, but 782 00:42:31,170 --> 00:42:34,140 it's very rewarding. So each day brings you this 783 00:42:34,150 --> 00:42:36,680 transformation that is beautiful. 784 00:42:36,750 --> 00:42:39,560 And so I want to see those students not delay this 785 00:42:39,570 --> 00:42:42,200 investment. I know we always think of costs 786 00:42:42,210 --> 00:42:45,990 when studying law, especially in in America, but it's more like 787 00:42:46,000 --> 00:42:48,270 value. What is the value that I want to 788 00:42:48,280 --> 00:42:50,830 get from this program? And let's work together to make 789 00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:54,690 it happen because I promise you this investment will be worth 790 00:42:54,700 --> 00:42:57,290 it. And to see their their careers, 791 00:42:57,340 --> 00:43:00,190 sometimes their careers are even better than what they expected. 792 00:43:00,200 --> 00:43:03,290 That's my favorite thing. I see some of the students five 793 00:43:03,300 --> 00:43:07,150 years out, 10 years out of LM and they say, I never thought I 794 00:43:07,160 --> 00:43:10,330 could be this at Google. I never thought I could be the 795 00:43:10,340 --> 00:43:13,810 head of IP at Microsoft. I never I love that. 796 00:43:13,820 --> 00:43:17,650 So I can't wait to see where the students will head by completing 797 00:43:17,660 --> 00:43:19,210 our program. They will surprise me. 798 00:43:19,220 --> 00:43:22,090 I know only for the best. That's amazing, Denval. 799 00:43:22,100 --> 00:43:24,850 Thank you again for taking the time to answering all of these 800 00:43:24,860 --> 00:43:27,450 questions and letting our listeners know a little more 801 00:43:27,460 --> 00:43:29,690 about Cardozo's new online program. 802 00:43:29,780 --> 00:43:33,110 We appreciate you all for taking the time to listen and also 803 00:43:33,120 --> 00:43:36,410 invite you to take the time to read through the show notes 804 00:43:36,420 --> 00:43:37,770 here. Below I'll put all the 805 00:43:37,780 --> 00:43:40,610 information about the program here so you can get to know even 806 00:43:40,620 --> 00:43:44,330 more and also know how to contact the admissions team, so 807 00:43:44,340 --> 00:43:47,730 thank you. All so much power to receiving 808 00:43:47,740 --> 00:43:50,450 your application, including yours perhaps Claudio. 809 00:43:50,500 --> 00:43:51,690 That's right. That's right. 810 00:43:51,700 --> 00:43:53,880 Well, thank you all so much, and we'll see you on the next 811 00:43:53,890 --> 00:43:55,270 episode. See you soon.