1 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,430 Hello everybody. Welcome to another episode of 2 00:00:18,440 --> 00:00:22,850 Studying Law Around the World. In this episode, I'll be glad to 3 00:00:22,860 --> 00:00:25,750 have Erica Bailey with me. She's the graduate career 4 00:00:25,760 --> 00:00:29,730 advisor at the Faculty of Law at University of Toronto, and she 5 00:00:29,740 --> 00:00:32,490 has been in the podcast before. We've done a few episodes 6 00:00:32,500 --> 00:00:37,210 before, and we do a special format when she joins me here. 7 00:00:37,260 --> 00:00:40,590 So, Erica, can you tell our listeners a little bit about 8 00:00:40,600 --> 00:00:44,350 yourself and also tell us a little recap on what we're doing 9 00:00:44,360 --> 00:00:47,440 here together? Hi everybody, It's great to meet 10 00:00:47,450 --> 00:00:49,400 you. My name is Erica Bailey and I 11 00:00:49,410 --> 00:00:53,560 use she and her pronouns and as Claudio says, I'm the graduate 12 00:00:53,570 --> 00:00:56,220 career advisor. I have the great distinction and 13 00:00:56,230 --> 00:00:59,330 privilege to be able to support internationally trained lawyers 14 00:00:59,390 --> 00:01:02,160 in the global professional Master of Laws and Master of 15 00:01:02,170 --> 00:01:06,100 Laws programs. And when Claudio was still an 16 00:01:06,110 --> 00:01:10,160 incoming student, as you probably have quickly learned 17 00:01:10,170 --> 00:01:14,780 his very eager to outreach to new people kind of person and he 18 00:01:14,790 --> 00:01:17,440 said I'd like to interview you about, I can't even remember the 19 00:01:17,450 --> 00:01:21,950 topic labour market or resumes. I don't even remember and I 20 00:01:21,960 --> 00:01:24,480 thought, you know, my story and my insights aren't as 21 00:01:24,490 --> 00:01:27,540 interesting as what it might be for all of you who are listening 22 00:01:27,550 --> 00:01:29,740 today, because I think it's important to understand what's 23 00:01:29,750 --> 00:01:33,520 it like to go into an international program of study? 24 00:01:33,590 --> 00:01:34,980 What are some of the considerations? 25 00:01:34,990 --> 00:01:36,260 What's it like to live through it? 26 00:01:36,270 --> 00:01:38,820 And so Claudio, I think is a perfect specimen. 27 00:01:39,290 --> 00:01:42,280 So I invited that we turn the tables a little bit. 28 00:01:42,290 --> 00:01:45,080 So we you're used to hearing Claudio doing the interviews. 29 00:01:45,090 --> 00:01:48,740 And so in this time I'll be interviewing Claudio to really 30 00:01:48,750 --> 00:01:51,860 think about his own experience, not just as you know, in the 31 00:01:51,870 --> 00:01:54,160 program here at the University of Toronto and the Global 32 00:01:54,170 --> 00:01:57,390 professional Master of Laws, but broadly as an internationally 33 00:01:57,400 --> 00:02:00,760 trained lawyer, new in Canada. What does that mean for him and 34 00:02:00,770 --> 00:02:04,510 his career and his licensing journey, his learning about the 35 00:02:04,520 --> 00:02:06,990 law here? So that's why we are doing it 36 00:02:07,000 --> 00:02:08,479 this way. Today amazing. 37 00:02:08,490 --> 00:02:10,690 And we'll, we'll continue on this journey. 38 00:02:10,759 --> 00:02:13,680 On the previous episodes, we talked about, you know, living 39 00:02:13,690 --> 00:02:17,580 my home country, what was it like, what I had to prepare, 40 00:02:17,660 --> 00:02:21,310 what was in my luggage, and then went on to talk about how the 41 00:02:21,320 --> 00:02:23,670 first semester felt like. Talked a little bit about the 42 00:02:23,680 --> 00:02:25,870 recruitment, the first few exams. 43 00:02:25,880 --> 00:02:29,250 So it's just been very interesting to do all of that. 44 00:02:29,260 --> 00:02:32,050 And honestly, for me, it's been some kind of, you know, 45 00:02:32,060 --> 00:02:35,510 journaling, you know, where I get the chance to go back and, 46 00:02:35,520 --> 00:02:39,430 and listen to the thoughts of what was my mindset back then or 47 00:02:39,440 --> 00:02:43,090 what things I was thinking. And this year has just gone by 48 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:46,610 so quickly, especially the academic year, the way it's set 49 00:02:46,620 --> 00:02:49,610 out. And I'm now taking my last two 50 00:02:49,620 --> 00:02:51,770 courses of the GPL. Can you believe that? 51 00:02:51,780 --> 00:02:55,170 Eric I can and I cannot. Every year it feels faster and 52 00:02:55,180 --> 00:02:57,990 faster, but I also know it goes so quickly. 53 00:02:58,060 --> 00:03:00,930 I can't believe like we, we had a really hard winter this year 54 00:03:00,940 --> 00:03:04,110 and so this whole winter semester has passed without us 55 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:06,370 having a conversation. And I think it might be 56 00:03:06,380 --> 00:03:09,750 interesting to hear about your experiences of studying law 57 00:03:09,760 --> 00:03:12,790 while in one of the coldest winters in recent memory in 58 00:03:12,800 --> 00:03:14,110 Canada. How did winter? 59 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:17,760 How did your winter term go? Well, it's very interesting. 60 00:03:17,770 --> 00:03:21,360 I feel like I get asked that by my family and friends a lot. 61 00:03:21,370 --> 00:03:25,340 And one thing that is very real is that you just really feel 62 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:29,820 cold when you go outside, right? So literally like it's going to 63 00:03:29,830 --> 00:03:32,920 the train station or going, you know, from your car to point A 64 00:03:32,930 --> 00:03:34,940 to B. But usually you don't feel the 65 00:03:34,950 --> 00:03:37,920 cold as much. What I really noticed that maybe 66 00:03:37,930 --> 00:03:41,440 I hadn't noticed as much before is really the amount of sunlight 67 00:03:41,450 --> 00:03:44,960 you have every day, right? So it, it does in a way, like 68 00:03:44,970 --> 00:03:48,220 take a toll on your body. You know, when the sun comes out 69 00:03:48,230 --> 00:03:52,330 just like 9:00 AM and goes away at 4:00 PM, there's definitely 70 00:03:52,340 --> 00:03:54,520 some some effects that that does your body. 71 00:03:54,530 --> 00:03:58,300 I feel like, and that was one of the the big observations for me 72 00:03:58,310 --> 00:04:01,470 during this summer semester. But you know, it, it's part of 73 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:03,640 the experience. And it was quite nice, you know, 74 00:04:03,650 --> 00:04:06,760 getting to see the snow, getting to see the campus all white. 75 00:04:06,770 --> 00:04:10,140 So I feel like that that was one of the highlights of studying 76 00:04:10,150 --> 00:04:12,010 during the winter. Did you get out and play in the 77 00:04:12,020 --> 00:04:14,910 snow at all? Yep, Yep, Head should do that, 78 00:04:14,920 --> 00:04:17,360 right? So we had a little baby and we 79 00:04:17,370 --> 00:04:20,240 just had to introduce her to the snow as well. 80 00:04:20,250 --> 00:04:22,320 So yeah, just had a good time. Great. 81 00:04:22,330 --> 00:04:24,540 That's wonderful. And So what were some of the 82 00:04:24,550 --> 00:04:28,120 courses like for you over the winter term and how are you 83 00:04:28,130 --> 00:04:30,560 finding it, especially someone who's civil law trained, how are 84 00:04:30,570 --> 00:04:32,880 you finding the comparison between common law and civil 85 00:04:32,890 --> 00:04:34,470 law? And how are you, how are you 86 00:04:34,480 --> 00:04:36,920 thinking now that might be different than when you either 87 00:04:36,970 --> 00:04:39,700 started in January or even looking further back to 88 00:04:39,710 --> 00:04:41,100 September? Absolutely. 89 00:04:41,110 --> 00:04:44,660 So last semester we had admin law and tort law. 90 00:04:44,670 --> 00:04:49,180 And I feel like the the obvious big difference is the difference 91 00:04:49,190 --> 00:04:51,620 that common law uses precedence, right. 92 00:04:51,630 --> 00:04:54,190 So use cases. And it was very interesting 93 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:58,160 especially in tarts how we studied a lot of UK cases and 94 00:04:58,170 --> 00:05:02,600 then a few USA cases and then how, how it kind of evolved in 95 00:05:02,610 --> 00:05:04,650 Canada. So it was just very interesting 96 00:05:04,660 --> 00:05:08,170 to see the very like international nature of some of 97 00:05:08,180 --> 00:05:12,110 the subjects. Whereas in a civil law 98 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,290 jurisdiction, or at least in Brazil specifically, most of it 99 00:05:16,300 --> 00:05:19,170 is, is very much you go to the code, you read the code and you 100 00:05:19,180 --> 00:05:23,290 see, you know, yes, no, So it's, it's a lot less nuanced in no 101 00:05:23,300 --> 00:05:26,890 way, at least from my personal perspective, from what I was 102 00:05:26,900 --> 00:05:29,770 able to gather, but it, it was very interesting. 103 00:05:29,780 --> 00:05:33,310 It was just a semester full of learning. 104 00:05:33,360 --> 00:05:37,810 Definitely very interesting subjects to, to go over how much 105 00:05:37,860 --> 00:05:39,910 administrative law is in our day-to-day life. 106 00:05:39,920 --> 00:05:45,030 It's just incredible to see. And then tarts, we hear about, 107 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:48,790 you know, slip and fall and all these things and we don't maybe 108 00:05:48,800 --> 00:05:51,430 don't give too much thought about how that process goes, but 109 00:05:51,440 --> 00:05:53,990 it was just very, very interesting to study. 110 00:05:54,220 --> 00:05:56,970 And those were classes I took all throughout the semester. 111 00:05:57,020 --> 00:05:59,260 And then at the end of the semester, I took an intensive 112 00:05:59,270 --> 00:06:03,350 course negotiation, and that was just very, very interesting to 113 00:06:03,400 --> 00:06:06,010 different than the the semester long classes. 114 00:06:06,020 --> 00:06:08,650 The negotiation course was a lot more practical. 115 00:06:08,720 --> 00:06:12,930 So we got the chance to first of all, get to talk with a lot of 116 00:06:12,940 --> 00:06:16,870 colleagues that I hadn't talked much with, which was amazing 117 00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:19,230 because just our cohort is so big, right? 118 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:22,210 So we don't really get you chat a lot of with everybody. 119 00:06:22,220 --> 00:06:24,720 And it was just great. She in no way meets these people 120 00:06:24,730 --> 00:06:27,250 that I'm sharing a classroom for a year now. 121 00:06:27,260 --> 00:06:30,870 And on another note, it was just great to, you know, learn more 122 00:06:30,880 --> 00:06:33,950 about what negotiation principles look like. 123 00:06:33,960 --> 00:06:37,270 We hear about negotiation sounds fun and all of that, but there's 124 00:06:37,280 --> 00:06:40,490 actually kind of like a science behind it, how you should go 125 00:06:40,500 --> 00:06:43,950 about it, how you know, how you start a negotiation makes a 126 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:45,800 difference and, and all of those things. 127 00:06:45,810 --> 00:06:48,220 So it was this is very, very enjoyable semester. 128 00:06:48,260 --> 00:06:50,340 Good to hear. I mean, I, I, I think you know, 129 00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:52,420 absolutely you're learning a lot about the content. 130 00:06:52,430 --> 00:06:57,210 And I'm curious, can you, can you identify if at all ways in 131 00:06:57,220 --> 00:07:03,380 which you think or respond to information on the study of law 132 00:07:03,390 --> 00:07:06,780 differently than you did before? Have you learned some skills or 133 00:07:06,850 --> 00:07:09,840 perhaps there's been a challenge this semester that perhaps is 134 00:07:09,850 --> 00:07:12,940 really made you dig deep and and try new resiliency skills that 135 00:07:12,950 --> 00:07:14,880 would be important for. You absolutely. 136 00:07:14,890 --> 00:07:18,560 So on a first note, of course there is, I feel like there's a 137 00:07:18,570 --> 00:07:22,860 maturity, a point to it. So when I was doing my 138 00:07:22,870 --> 00:07:26,110 bachelors, I was too, you know, out of high school, like as a, 139 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:29,880 as a first opportunity you don't get, you don't spend too much 140 00:07:29,890 --> 00:07:32,780 time thinking about how you learn early on. 141 00:07:32,790 --> 00:07:36,830 So as you mature, you kind of know better what's effective for 142 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,420 you, what's not. So there's definitely that point 143 00:07:39,430 --> 00:07:43,690 where I no longer try to copy what everybody else is doing, 144 00:07:43,700 --> 00:07:46,830 but I know a little bit better of like this is how I should 145 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:49,340 take my notes so that I can learn a little more. 146 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:51,930 But something that happened in the semester as well is that we 147 00:07:51,940 --> 00:07:53,770 had a few changes at the faculty. 148 00:07:53,860 --> 00:07:57,590 And now the way we get tested on exams changed a little bit. 149 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:02,150 And because of that, it also made most of us change the way 150 00:08:02,160 --> 00:08:04,170 we were preparing for exams, right? 151 00:08:04,220 --> 00:08:07,970 So beforehand, we were able to bring just a, an extensive 152 00:08:07,980 --> 00:08:10,990 amount of material. And now in this new approach, 153 00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,110 we're not doing as much. So it definitely made me think 154 00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,030 about, you know, how can I make better notes? 155 00:08:16,040 --> 00:08:19,430 How can I use post dates and and highlighter and all these things 156 00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:21,920 to make after that? I can go through my notes 157 00:08:21,930 --> 00:08:25,610 quickly during an exam. So it was just an interesting 158 00:08:25,620 --> 00:08:27,680 semester to to get adapted to change. 159 00:08:27,690 --> 00:08:31,020 We always know that change is the biggest constant in life, 160 00:08:31,070 --> 00:08:33,809 but it was definitely an interesting challenge, you know, 161 00:08:33,820 --> 00:08:36,940 to go about this again, to go about beforehand, I was I was 162 00:08:36,950 --> 00:08:41,700 taking this like 100 page file to an exam because I'm like, if 163 00:08:41,710 --> 00:08:44,840 I don't remember anything, I'll be able to find it there, right. 164 00:08:44,890 --> 00:08:47,750 But you know, in the end, it was just kind of like a comfort in 165 00:08:47,760 --> 00:08:50,100 the back of your mind that you'd have. 166 00:08:50,170 --> 00:08:54,080 And now it was a lot more, you know, to the point a lot more 167 00:08:54,710 --> 00:08:57,340 what does really matter for me to take to this exam? 168 00:08:57,350 --> 00:09:00,580 Let me make sure that I have this summarized and that I know 169 00:09:00,590 --> 00:09:04,780 how to get to it quickly. So it was definitely interesting 170 00:09:04,790 --> 00:09:06,820 in this sense, basically trying a new. 171 00:09:07,340 --> 00:09:09,450 That's great. I mean, in some ways being able 172 00:09:09,460 --> 00:09:12,670 to be discerning, to really understand the material, just 173 00:09:12,680 --> 00:09:15,450 not know where to find things because finding material like 174 00:09:15,460 --> 00:09:17,720 finding information is not what people need. 175 00:09:17,730 --> 00:09:21,050 They need lawyers to be really critically thinking about it, to 176 00:09:21,060 --> 00:09:24,180 have a strong analysis to to make sense of it, to know what's 177 00:09:24,190 --> 00:09:27,950 relevant, what's not, to be able to do quick recall as necessary. 178 00:09:27,960 --> 00:09:30,290 And so it sounds like you've started developing that skill in 179 00:09:30,300 --> 00:09:31,980 a good way. Yeah, absolutely. 180 00:09:32,040 --> 00:09:35,650 It's so interesting how in different stages of your life, 181 00:09:35,660 --> 00:09:37,970 some skills are more necessary than others, right. 182 00:09:38,060 --> 00:09:40,770 So I guess when you have that comfort of having all the 183 00:09:40,780 --> 00:09:44,960 material in front of you, maybe you don't necessarily exercise 184 00:09:44,970 --> 00:09:48,490 that muscle as much of discernment and of summarizing 185 00:09:48,540 --> 00:09:52,090 and of focusing on what really matters as a whole. 186 00:09:52,180 --> 00:09:55,560 And then when you know, this situations put you in a position 187 00:09:55,570 --> 00:09:59,130 where you know, you kind of have to do that, then you tend to 188 00:09:59,140 --> 00:10:01,620 develop that even more. So it was definitely a good 189 00:10:01,630 --> 00:10:05,100 opportunity to to get to the point to, you know, develop 190 00:10:05,110 --> 00:10:10,140 those skills further and to just really test it out and see what 191 00:10:10,150 --> 00:10:13,320 worked best, which I think is really valuable in life. 192 00:10:13,330 --> 00:10:17,140 You just test something out, see if it works out, and if it works 193 00:10:17,150 --> 00:10:19,640 out, you stick to it. Or if you see there's any way to 194 00:10:19,650 --> 00:10:21,820 improve it, you do it for the next round. 195 00:10:21,830 --> 00:10:25,400 So that's that's what's winter semester was a lot about. 196 00:10:26,080 --> 00:10:28,010 Yeah, for sure. And I think that winter 197 00:10:28,020 --> 00:10:31,170 semesters all like to me, the word that is often used as 198 00:10:31,180 --> 00:10:34,130 resiliency. But resiliency can look and feel 199 00:10:34,140 --> 00:10:37,350 a lot like many things, right? But it sounds to me like that 200 00:10:37,360 --> 00:10:40,450 creative engagement to say, right, something's changed. 201 00:10:40,460 --> 00:10:42,470 And that is such a remarkable skill. 202 00:10:42,480 --> 00:10:45,990 And it's it's so necessary in so many areas of our lives, not 203 00:10:46,000 --> 00:10:48,010 just academics, but also in your careers. 204 00:10:48,100 --> 00:10:50,710 Absolutely. No, I, I totally have to agree 205 00:10:50,720 --> 00:10:52,550 with that. I love that you said that 206 00:10:52,560 --> 00:10:55,580 resiliency looks different and looks like a lot of different 207 00:10:55,590 --> 00:10:59,630 things because it really does. I feel like we only really think 208 00:10:59,640 --> 00:11:02,820 about it when, when you know, somebody asks something 209 00:11:02,830 --> 00:11:05,360 specific. Are you hearing inside or you 210 00:11:05,370 --> 00:11:09,290 hear somebody's experience? But it really is after all this 211 00:11:10,530 --> 00:11:15,260 opportunity that you get to, you know, adapt again or are you do 212 00:11:15,270 --> 00:11:18,360 something differently that you're used to doing in in a 213 00:11:18,370 --> 00:11:21,440 different way. So it was it was interesting to 214 00:11:21,450 --> 00:11:23,860 see. There's this common joke that 215 00:11:23,870 --> 00:11:27,880 goes around talking about when you join a new firm or when you 216 00:11:27,890 --> 00:11:30,170 start a new job. They basically say that it's 217 00:11:30,350 --> 00:11:34,680 basically you are a new character in the 55th season of 218 00:11:34,690 --> 00:11:37,340 that show, right? So everybody has all the inside 219 00:11:37,350 --> 00:11:40,280 jokes, everybody know what's going on and you're just 220 00:11:40,290 --> 00:11:42,920 basically training there to figure it out. 221 00:11:43,050 --> 00:11:46,700 And I feel like life does that to you time and time again. 222 00:11:46,710 --> 00:11:50,760 So be it a team changing side, your firm, be, you know, going 223 00:11:50,770 --> 00:11:54,140 into a different department at the university or just going 224 00:11:54,150 --> 00:11:56,900 into a class with classmates that didn't choose to take that 225 00:11:56,910 --> 00:12:00,090 same class. It it happens more than we we'd 226 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:03,710 like to acknowledge maybe, and it's just good. 227 00:12:03,720 --> 00:12:06,290 It's good to be out of your comfort, even though it's super 228 00:12:06,300 --> 00:12:09,470 cliche to say that growth happens out of your comfort 229 00:12:09,480 --> 00:12:14,780 zone, but it's really a true statement. 100% and they use 230 00:12:14,790 --> 00:12:17,430 that point, I think, because I know you've not only learned it 231 00:12:17,440 --> 00:12:19,350 by doing it, but you've learned it through hearing it. 232 00:12:19,360 --> 00:12:23,190 And so for those listeners who are familiar with your very, 233 00:12:23,240 --> 00:12:26,630 very beautifully written at LinkedIn activities, they know 234 00:12:26,640 --> 00:12:29,490 that you have been interviewing, even had created a little bit of 235 00:12:29,500 --> 00:12:32,410 a project for yourself interviewing lawyers here in 236 00:12:32,420 --> 00:12:34,530 Canada. And so I'm curious if you'd like 237 00:12:34,540 --> 00:12:38,840 to discuss some of the, what was the seed of that idea and how 238 00:12:38,850 --> 00:12:41,130 did it go? And what are some of the some of 239 00:12:41,140 --> 00:12:43,490 the things you've learned through your networking that you 240 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:47,070 think you'd like to share here? Absolutely. 241 00:12:47,120 --> 00:12:50,600 So when I first started at UFT, and I think I even mentioned 242 00:12:50,610 --> 00:12:54,470 this in one of the podcasts we recorded together, there was a 243 00:12:54,480 --> 00:12:58,010 big celebration for the 75 years of the universe of the Faculty 244 00:12:58,020 --> 00:13:00,330 of Law, specifically in the university. 245 00:13:00,480 --> 00:13:04,070 And we got to attend an event in a gala and all of that. 246 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,230 And we even sat together, right, And sat close to each other. 247 00:13:07,660 --> 00:13:12,040 And honestly, it was just so incredible for me to be sitting 248 00:13:12,050 --> 00:13:17,090 in front of, you know, all of these basically legal royalty of 249 00:13:17,100 --> 00:13:17,990 Canada. Yeah. 250 00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:20,770 Basically there were, you know, former Supreme Court justices, 251 00:13:20,780 --> 00:13:24,390 ambassadors, judges, professors, partners of law firms. 252 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,680 So there was a lot of very important people altogether in 253 00:13:27,690 --> 00:13:30,970 the same conference. And it was just very inspiring 254 00:13:30,980 --> 00:13:34,000 to see. But I also felt like, you know, 255 00:13:34,010 --> 00:13:37,790 at first, it's awesome that I get to belong into this. 256 00:13:37,930 --> 00:13:41,560 So I felt that strongly. And then I was also thinking, 257 00:13:41,570 --> 00:13:43,520 how can I engage with these people? 258 00:13:43,530 --> 00:13:45,620 Like, I want to talk to them, right? 259 00:13:45,670 --> 00:13:48,200 This is a quick event, but I also want to get to know a 260 00:13:48,210 --> 00:13:50,580 little bit more about their lives, about their stories. 261 00:13:50,590 --> 00:13:54,120 And after that event, and I've been active on LinkedIn for a 262 00:13:54,130 --> 00:13:58,340 while, but I got to see a few people that I followed in the US 263 00:13:58,410 --> 00:14:01,680 and what they were doing as JD students, they had a challenge 264 00:14:01,770 --> 00:14:05,720 to meet with 100 lawyers through their three years of law school. 265 00:14:06,030 --> 00:14:08,970 So if you think about it, three years, 100 people, it's not that 266 00:14:08,980 --> 00:14:12,060 big of a deal, right? Like it's challenging. 267 00:14:12,070 --> 00:14:17,850 It's one every two weeks or so. Exactly, yes, and, and all of 268 00:14:17,860 --> 00:14:20,640 these things just got cooking in my mind and I'm like, you know 269 00:14:20,650 --> 00:14:25,340 what, I want to meet with 75 lawyers because it's 75 years of 270 00:14:25,350 --> 00:14:27,470 the faculty. I want to meet with the lawyers 271 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:28,900 here. Let's do it. 272 00:14:28,910 --> 00:14:32,290 So I just basically put it out there on on LinkedIn that I was 273 00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:37,640 going to start this project and I was overwhelmed by the the 274 00:14:37,890 --> 00:14:42,020 openness of the community. You know, so many people told me 275 00:14:42,030 --> 00:14:44,840 incredible things. I've heard things like my days 276 00:14:44,850 --> 00:14:47,420 are very stress filled, high stakes. 277 00:14:47,430 --> 00:14:49,880 I have to do everything with so much care. 278 00:14:49,950 --> 00:14:53,420 And sometimes when a student reaches out and I get to just 279 00:14:53,510 --> 00:14:57,040 lightheartedly talk with them for a couple of minutes, it just 280 00:14:57,050 --> 00:14:59,260 really breaks out the tension of my day. 281 00:14:59,370 --> 00:15:02,400 I'm like, Oh my goodness, am I helping you by by asking your 282 00:15:02,410 --> 00:15:07,600 questions? It was just very, very nice to 283 00:15:07,610 --> 00:15:10,840 get the opportunity to know people in different generations 284 00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:12,900 to hear about their law school memories. 285 00:15:13,090 --> 00:15:16,020 A lot of the people that I interviewed are UFT alumni, 286 00:15:16,030 --> 00:15:18,910 right? So it was just very interesting 287 00:15:18,920 --> 00:15:21,580 to hear all the different things that they took out of 288 00:15:21,590 --> 00:15:24,000 university. They would ask me about the name 289 00:15:24,010 --> 00:15:26,530 of a few professors and I'm like, I'm, I'm not sure if 290 00:15:26,540 --> 00:15:29,840 they're there sure or not, but it was just very interesting to 291 00:15:29,850 --> 00:15:31,800 get to know the community a little better. 292 00:15:31,870 --> 00:15:36,560 And I, and I feel in a way even more a part of it now that I'm 293 00:15:36,570 --> 00:15:39,480 connected to, you know, different generations of the, 294 00:15:39,490 --> 00:15:41,920 the university as I went about the project as well. 295 00:15:41,930 --> 00:15:45,640 I got the chance to partner with the advancement office and will 296 00:15:45,650 --> 00:15:49,440 be coming out with a booklet soon with insights from these 297 00:15:49,450 --> 00:15:52,340 lawyers that I got to interview. So their quotes picture. 298 00:15:52,350 --> 00:15:55,510 So we'll get you to know who is the person behind the quotes 299 00:15:55,520 --> 00:15:58,490 that I have been sharing. And I'm so excited for that part 300 00:15:58,500 --> 00:16:01,350 of the project as well. I'm so excited for that as well. 301 00:16:01,360 --> 00:16:03,930 And I, I think you know Claudio, there might be people listening 302 00:16:03,940 --> 00:16:09,190 saying 75 new people and you reach 75 when how many people 303 00:16:09,380 --> 00:16:11,350 you, you managed to reach your goal, right? 304 00:16:11,780 --> 00:16:12,950 That's right. That's right. 305 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:18,410 So as I was about to start my summer job, I was like, I have 306 00:16:18,420 --> 00:16:21,010 to finish this because I don't know how my schedule is going to 307 00:16:21,020 --> 00:16:23,610 be and all of that. So I definitely reached out to a 308 00:16:23,620 --> 00:16:27,240 lot of people during the month of March and most of our coffee 309 00:16:27,250 --> 00:16:29,910 chats happened between March and April. 310 00:16:30,060 --> 00:16:34,700 And yeah, I was able to actually meet with a little over 75 311 00:16:34,710 --> 00:16:37,510 because what happened is that I had to reach out to a lot of 312 00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:39,530 people to get you here back, right? 313 00:16:39,540 --> 00:16:42,110 So I probably reached out to you over 200 lawyers. 314 00:16:42,940 --> 00:16:46,630 What ended up happening is that when I finished my 75, then a 315 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:49,710 few people got back to me and they were like, so sorry, I was 316 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,830 so busy, I got your e-mail. Would you still wanna meet? 317 00:16:52,880 --> 00:16:55,430 And I'm like, absolutely, let's do this. 318 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,390 Great, I'm glad you you said no, no, that you didn't, you didn't 319 00:16:59,400 --> 00:17:01,850 say no that I think it's really good that you keep those 320 00:17:01,860 --> 00:17:05,030 connections going. I imagine that there are. 321 00:17:05,040 --> 00:17:08,089 So for those who are listening, you probably can guess that 322 00:17:08,099 --> 00:17:10,960 Claudia was pretty extroverted, well at least presents as such 323 00:17:10,970 --> 00:17:13,310 and so really comfortable going out and meeting new people. 324 00:17:13,319 --> 00:17:15,990 But was there a moment where you felt a little nervous there 325 00:17:16,000 --> 00:17:18,869 probably be helpful for those who are maybe a little more 326 00:17:18,880 --> 00:17:21,310 introverted or a little uncertain about how do you 327 00:17:21,319 --> 00:17:24,390 approach Canadian people like how do you talk to Canadians? 328 00:17:24,450 --> 00:17:27,569 So I'm curious, what did you learn about talking to Canadian 329 00:17:27,579 --> 00:17:30,980 lawyers that might be helpful from an international 330 00:17:30,990 --> 00:17:32,290 perspective? Oh, absolutely. 331 00:17:32,300 --> 00:17:33,730 Yeah. Thank you so much for bringing 332 00:17:33,740 --> 00:17:36,100 that up. I think I was very lucky to 333 00:17:36,110 --> 00:17:40,710 actually have coffee chats with just tremendous, generous people 334 00:17:40,720 --> 00:17:43,180 right at the beginning. That helped me to get a good 335 00:17:43,190 --> 00:17:45,600 start. A few of the actually one of the 336 00:17:45,610 --> 00:17:48,060 first lawyers that I talked with, she asked me like, how 337 00:17:48,070 --> 00:17:49,580 many of these have you done before? 338 00:17:49,590 --> 00:17:52,760 I think I don't know how well it was going, but she brought this 339 00:17:52,770 --> 00:17:55,300 up and I'm like, I'm just starting. 340 00:17:55,390 --> 00:17:59,540 And she was like, how about I lead this coffee chat today just 341 00:17:59,550 --> 00:18:03,040 so you know how it's usually done and you can kind of like 342 00:18:03,050 --> 00:18:06,020 take the most out of it because maybe you don't know what 343 00:18:06,030 --> 00:18:09,120 questions to ask about what I've done and all of that. 344 00:18:09,130 --> 00:18:14,360 So I was really like, so lucky to get that kind of mentorship 345 00:18:14,370 --> 00:18:18,480 about how to go about it, coffee chat in practice that I couldn't 346 00:18:18,530 --> 00:18:22,090 like see it going that well without this kind of guidance, 347 00:18:22,100 --> 00:18:24,140 you know? So why don't you uncover a 348 00:18:24,150 --> 00:18:25,910 little bit what does a good coffee? 349 00:18:25,920 --> 00:18:28,610 How does a good coffee chat go? People want to know. 350 00:18:29,280 --> 00:18:32,070 Absolutely. So I think it always starts with 351 00:18:32,220 --> 00:18:36,110 respectful invite. So I was usually going to reach 352 00:18:36,120 --> 00:18:40,080 out to people on LinkedIn or through e-mail asking, telling 353 00:18:40,090 --> 00:18:42,310 them a little bit about what I was doing. 354 00:18:42,320 --> 00:18:45,950 And I always make a point, made a point to try and find 355 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:47,730 something unique about those people, right. 356 00:18:47,740 --> 00:18:51,350 So there was all kinds of things that you can find out on 357 00:18:51,360 --> 00:18:53,270 LinkedIn that people want you to know about. 358 00:18:53,280 --> 00:18:56,910 Then I feel like it does, it is meaningful in a way that you 359 00:18:56,920 --> 00:18:58,790 mention things that they put out there, right? 360 00:18:58,800 --> 00:19:00,610 They put it out there on purpose. 361 00:19:00,740 --> 00:19:03,190 They want people to know that about themselves. 362 00:19:03,320 --> 00:19:05,640 So it's always been helpful in my opinion. 363 00:19:05,650 --> 00:19:07,990 She reach out and she mentioned something unique about their 364 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,960 profile, right. So usually you see IP lawyers, 365 00:19:10,970 --> 00:19:15,850 you usually see that they have a medical, health or engineering 366 00:19:15,860 --> 00:19:17,830 background. But then when I found a few of 367 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,830 the lawyers that were working with IP and they had a social 368 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,450 sciences background, I, I kind of pointed that out. 369 00:19:23,460 --> 00:19:25,250 I was like, I'm that's so exciting. 370 00:19:25,320 --> 00:19:27,550 So happy to hear about your perspective. 371 00:19:27,600 --> 00:19:30,800 So I think I always try to find something that was interesting 372 00:19:30,810 --> 00:19:32,470 that they had put out there publicly. 373 00:19:32,480 --> 00:19:35,030 And I thought that that was helpful because it was a good 374 00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:38,780 conversation starter to so I would go to the coffee chat, you 375 00:19:38,790 --> 00:19:42,200 know, just exchange greetings, tell them a little bit about the 376 00:19:42,210 --> 00:19:46,400 project about myself and especially get you here about 377 00:19:46,410 --> 00:19:48,700 them, right. So I always tried to prepare a 378 00:19:48,710 --> 00:19:51,480 couple of questions, not in every coffee chat. 379 00:19:51,490 --> 00:19:54,680 I used the questions I prepared, but I just didn't want to be 380 00:19:54,690 --> 00:19:58,160 kind of caught off guard. And something that I learned 381 00:19:58,210 --> 00:20:02,020 with the the big number that maybe I wouldn't notice if I was 382 00:20:02,030 --> 00:20:06,020 just talking to 10 people is that knowing any life 383 00:20:06,030 --> 00:20:09,740 relationship, sometimes there's chemistry and sometimes there's 384 00:20:09,750 --> 00:20:11,820 just not. Sometimes I don't know, people 385 00:20:11,830 --> 00:20:13,890 are busy. They just have something else on 386 00:20:13,900 --> 00:20:16,620 their mind and it just doesn't go great. 387 00:20:16,700 --> 00:20:18,740 Not every coffee chat will go great. 388 00:20:18,750 --> 00:20:21,420 That's what I learned about it. You know, a lot of people are 389 00:20:21,430 --> 00:20:22,940 very. They just have a very different 390 00:20:22,950 --> 00:20:25,300 personality. They just are very much on task, 391 00:20:25,310 --> 00:20:26,640 right? And they're like, what do you 392 00:20:26,650 --> 00:20:29,200 wanna know? And very directed their 393 00:20:29,210 --> 00:20:30,900 questions. They don't, they don't enjoy 394 00:20:30,910 --> 00:20:35,480 maybe just chatting about trivialities and all of that. 395 00:20:35,490 --> 00:20:39,160 So it was, it was definitely a learning experience about humans 396 00:20:39,170 --> 00:20:41,460 in general. But then in the profession, he 397 00:20:41,470 --> 00:20:45,560 taught me a lot that people, they value that other people 398 00:20:45,570 --> 00:20:48,620 take the time to take a look at their profile and make 399 00:20:48,690 --> 00:20:52,500 thoughtful questions that could look like, for example, as I 400 00:20:52,510 --> 00:20:55,420 mentioned, the thing about IP law, right, I usually notice 401 00:20:55,430 --> 00:20:58,180 that IP lawyers have an engineering or, or health 402 00:20:58,190 --> 00:21:00,340 background. I notice that you have a social 403 00:21:00,350 --> 00:21:01,900 sciences 1. Can you tell me a little bit 404 00:21:01,910 --> 00:21:05,560 about how did you navigate that? Is it common like most of your 405 00:21:05,570 --> 00:21:08,160 colleagues do have that or is this just a misconception that 406 00:21:08,170 --> 00:21:11,010 I'm having? And then when I went and talked 407 00:21:11,020 --> 00:21:13,680 with lawyers that clerked for judges, for example, I mentioned 408 00:21:13,690 --> 00:21:16,620 to them that I wanted you to transactional work. 409 00:21:16,700 --> 00:21:19,290 And when I came to Canada and mentioned that I had clerked, 410 00:21:19,950 --> 00:21:22,960 people were like, wait, that's not usually how it goes. 411 00:21:22,970 --> 00:21:25,920 Usually people who clerk are going into litigation. 412 00:21:25,970 --> 00:21:29,520 So it was just very interesting to see the different things that 413 00:21:29,530 --> 00:21:32,900 the career does here and that it does in in other countries. 414 00:21:33,170 --> 00:21:37,640 But trying to relate to people trying to explain my experience. 415 00:21:37,790 --> 00:21:39,960 That was all part of what made it meaningful. 416 00:21:39,970 --> 00:21:44,240 And then I feel like, of course, part of it was being lucky that 417 00:21:44,310 --> 00:21:47,620 the lawyers that agreed should be a part of these. 418 00:21:47,680 --> 00:21:51,080 They were just open and and just easy going about it. 419 00:21:51,150 --> 00:21:55,580 And I think that that's what you find most of the time in my 420 00:21:55,710 --> 00:21:58,960 small pool of of people that I interviewed, that's what I 421 00:21:58,970 --> 00:22:00,940 found. They wanted to be connected to 422 00:22:00,950 --> 00:22:04,300 the faculty, Sue, and they felt like they were giving back to 423 00:22:04,310 --> 00:22:05,840 the community when they were chatting with. 424 00:22:05,850 --> 00:22:10,030 Me, I think people listening might smell first of all, 80 or 425 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:13,190 whatever 82 you ended up with is not a small pool. 426 00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:16,510 It is quite a large number of people to interview over the 427 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:21,310 course of what has essentially been gosh like 8 months. 428 00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:25,490 So that's 10 people a month. So I'm sure there's, if we were 429 00:22:25,500 --> 00:22:27,850 to spread them all out, which we obviously you did not. 430 00:22:27,860 --> 00:22:33,290 But you know, people might wonder how did you decide who to 431 00:22:33,300 --> 00:22:36,320 reach out to? How did you take it when you got 432 00:22:36,380 --> 00:22:39,170 no one responding? Yeah, I, I think people might 433 00:22:39,180 --> 00:22:41,680 not know where to start. So how did how did you start 434 00:22:41,690 --> 00:22:43,710 researching the individuals with whom you might meet? 435 00:22:44,510 --> 00:22:48,850 They're absolutely first of all, when I decided to, to use the 436 00:22:48,860 --> 00:22:52,830 number kind of, it felt off a little bit. 437 00:22:52,840 --> 00:22:57,630 You should like number people at first because I didn't want it 438 00:22:57,640 --> 00:23:01,390 to be like, you are lawyer #7 you are lawyer #10 you know, I 439 00:23:01,400 --> 00:23:04,690 definitely didn't want it to feel or especially for people to 440 00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:07,780 feel like they were just, I'm just doing this coffee chat 441 00:23:07,790 --> 00:23:11,440 because I want to check another number in my list, right? 442 00:23:11,450 --> 00:23:15,470 So I, I, I did everything within my power to make sure that I let 443 00:23:15,480 --> 00:23:17,910 them know that they weren't just, you know, somebody else 444 00:23:17,920 --> 00:23:21,820 that I was checking off my list. And that was important to me 445 00:23:21,830 --> 00:23:23,480 first. You should not see people as 446 00:23:23,490 --> 00:23:25,820 numbers. But as I went about to the 447 00:23:25,830 --> 00:23:28,340 selection of the individuals, there were a few different 448 00:23:28,350 --> 00:23:31,810 things. So I knew kind of what I wanted 449 00:23:31,820 --> 00:23:35,520 to get out of this experience, right? 450 00:23:35,530 --> 00:23:37,840 I wanted to talk with people in different fields. 451 00:23:37,930 --> 00:23:41,300 I wanted to make sure that I talked with, you know, a lot of 452 00:23:41,310 --> 00:23:43,660 people in private practice, a lot of people in public 453 00:23:43,670 --> 00:23:45,780 practice. I wanted to talk with people 454 00:23:45,790 --> 00:23:48,900 that went to other countries. I got to talk with lawyers that 455 00:23:48,910 --> 00:23:53,360 are working in Switzerland, that are working in Singapore and all 456 00:23:53,370 --> 00:23:56,280 were UFT trains. I also wanted to talk with 457 00:23:56,290 --> 00:23:57,940 lawyers from different generations. 458 00:23:57,950 --> 00:24:02,380 I didn't want to talk only with 2024 graduates, which were super 459 00:24:02,390 --> 00:24:06,440 open, but I also wanted to see how how far back could I go. 460 00:24:06,730 --> 00:24:10,520 Definitely all of these criteria helped me to to take a look at 461 00:24:10,530 --> 00:24:13,770 the right and LinkedIn was mostly what I used. 462 00:24:13,780 --> 00:24:17,840 I used the UFT lock connect as well because then that also 463 00:24:17,850 --> 00:24:21,060 added a layer of people willing to talk. 464 00:24:21,070 --> 00:24:24,420 And then LinkedIn helped me to filter out a lot of that because 465 00:24:24,430 --> 00:24:26,900 a lot of people have their graduation dates and you can 466 00:24:27,010 --> 00:24:30,060 filter out through that. So that was also helpful. 467 00:24:30,130 --> 00:24:33,780 It felt like the farther away people have graduated, a little 468 00:24:33,790 --> 00:24:37,420 bit harder to reach out to them. But happily I was able to have a 469 00:24:37,430 --> 00:24:41,310 reasonable amount of people that graduated or before the 2000s, 470 00:24:41,360 --> 00:24:44,350 so I was just very happy with the the final results. 471 00:24:44,360 --> 00:24:48,070 But the earliest graduation date person that you spoke with? 472 00:24:48,120 --> 00:24:51,050 OK. Let me just tell you in a second 473 00:24:51,100 --> 00:24:54,830 it it's interesting because it was actually just a Sabella, the 474 00:24:54,840 --> 00:24:59,170 person that I spoke to that has the earliest graduation date and 475 00:24:59,560 --> 00:25:03,830 I just have to just check here really quickly when that was. 476 00:25:05,460 --> 00:25:09,810 She is one of the most highly respected individuals in Canada 477 00:25:09,820 --> 00:25:13,110 for the work that she's done as a woman leading the in the 478 00:25:13,120 --> 00:25:15,730 judiciary space. And I'm sure there's people as 479 00:25:15,740 --> 00:25:18,570 you're searching and buying you a little time, but I think it 480 00:25:18,580 --> 00:25:21,850 might be interesting for people to note that when people say 481 00:25:21,860 --> 00:25:25,460 yes, lawyers are willing to talk to you, adjust this with, you 482 00:25:25,470 --> 00:25:29,340 know, she, she actually would sit down and speak with you for, 483 00:25:29,410 --> 00:25:33,000 you know what, half an hour. And it is absolutely generous, 484 00:25:33,010 --> 00:25:36,360 of course, but they really do value the opportunity to meet 485 00:25:36,370 --> 00:25:39,760 with people who are coming into the practice of law and want to 486 00:25:39,770 --> 00:25:43,120 talk to you, want to provide advice because so many of these 487 00:25:43,130 --> 00:25:45,120 individuals are there to serve community. 488 00:25:45,130 --> 00:25:47,820 And so I think for those listening, it's it's a really 489 00:25:47,830 --> 00:25:51,440 important lesson that yes, actually, they many will say 490 00:25:51,450 --> 00:25:54,080 yes. And as Claudio is also quite 491 00:25:54,090 --> 00:25:58,250 well outlined, making it personal, indicating why you're 492 00:25:58,260 --> 00:26:02,040 doing this, showing that you've done some thoughtful research on 493 00:26:02,050 --> 00:26:05,150 the individual helps the yes come faster. 494 00:26:05,210 --> 00:26:07,060 All right, so did you find the date? 495 00:26:07,330 --> 00:26:10,630 I have actually, yes. So she's from the graduating 496 00:26:10,640 --> 00:26:15,290 class of 1970. So she's graduated 55 years ago. 497 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,810 And that's, it was just incredible for me to, to see, 498 00:26:18,860 --> 00:26:23,100 you know, the impact that she's done in all these years and to 499 00:26:23,110 --> 00:26:26,470 understand a little better of what, what a big, what a big 500 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:31,570 leap it was to study at UFT back then to from what I've been 501 00:26:31,580 --> 00:26:34,410 seeing more and more. There's, there's a rich history 502 00:26:34,540 --> 00:26:38,970 of what legal education looked like and how much university and 503 00:26:38,980 --> 00:26:43,850 Law Society were very aligned. And then we have UFT law coming 504 00:26:43,860 --> 00:26:47,050 up as, as a very different proposal and a very different 505 00:26:47,060 --> 00:26:50,170 idea to the community. So it's definitely a school that 506 00:26:50,180 --> 00:26:54,300 has that story of being, you know, groundbreaker. 507 00:26:54,310 --> 00:26:57,410 And, and I think that from what I've heard a little bit, there 508 00:26:57,420 --> 00:27:00,190 was even the first few graduating classes, they were 509 00:27:00,200 --> 00:27:02,840 not even sure if they would be recognized or not. 510 00:27:02,850 --> 00:27:07,260 So there there's so much to the story and it's just awesome to 511 00:27:07,270 --> 00:27:10,460 to get to hear a little bit more about it, understand it and see 512 00:27:10,470 --> 00:27:14,040 the impact that so many alumni have been doing all through the 513 00:27:14,050 --> 00:27:15,360 years. Absolutely. 514 00:27:15,410 --> 00:27:18,440 Speaking the impact, what impact has this project had on you? 515 00:27:18,490 --> 00:27:20,700 Wow. In so many ways, in so many 516 00:27:20,710 --> 00:27:22,900 things, I feel like it definitely has. 517 00:27:22,950 --> 00:27:27,160 It has given me some clarity of things that I had a vague idea 518 00:27:27,170 --> 00:27:30,040 of. But hearing people saying it 519 00:27:30,090 --> 00:27:33,380 over and over again definitely gave me a lot of more of an 520 00:27:33,390 --> 00:27:37,340 understanding of what the community thinks in a way. 521 00:27:37,410 --> 00:27:40,780 So there was a lot of things about, you know, hard skills and 522 00:27:40,790 --> 00:27:45,000 soft skills, but oftentimes I heard the words of, you know, 523 00:27:45,010 --> 00:27:48,920 keep an open mind. A lot, a lot of the graduates 524 00:27:49,610 --> 00:27:52,620 ended up getting somewhere that they had no idea where they were 525 00:27:52,630 --> 00:27:55,720 going to go. A few people had a very specific 526 00:27:55,730 --> 00:27:59,220 going mind and they were like, I'm going to do this. 527 00:27:59,230 --> 00:28:02,380 One example, there was a graduate who who is a university 528 00:28:02,390 --> 00:28:05,560 president and he went to law school knowing he wanted to do 529 00:28:05,570 --> 00:28:08,080 this and he did it. And and it was just incredible 530 00:28:08,090 --> 00:28:11,960 to see that, to see, you know, the both ways are possible. 531 00:28:11,970 --> 00:28:16,320 People who were not sure they went to, you know, Bay Streets, 532 00:28:16,330 --> 00:28:20,080 did their time there, didn't love it, went somewhere else and 533 00:28:20,090 --> 00:28:23,200 and just found passion for law over again. 534 00:28:23,290 --> 00:28:26,000 So it was just incredible to see, you know, all the different 535 00:28:26,010 --> 00:28:27,600 things you can do with a law degree. 536 00:28:27,650 --> 00:28:29,910 I spoke with, you know, a reasonable amount of lawyers 537 00:28:29,920 --> 00:28:33,040 that are no longer practicing lawyers and that are in other 538 00:28:33,050 --> 00:28:35,960 areas be, you know, public policy, international 539 00:28:35,970 --> 00:28:39,060 organizations. So it's just, it was just very, 540 00:28:39,070 --> 00:28:43,920 very interesting in that way and, and it shaped the way I see 541 00:28:43,930 --> 00:28:46,460 the graduates. I'm looking around my colleagues 542 00:28:46,470 --> 00:28:49,480 now and just super curious, you know, what's going to happen, 543 00:28:49,490 --> 00:28:53,060 you know, 5-10 years from now because it's just a lot of 544 00:28:53,070 --> 00:28:56,240 impact can be done in a short amount of time these days. 545 00:28:56,250 --> 00:28:57,800 Absolutely. And I think one of the things 546 00:28:57,810 --> 00:29:01,580 that maybe is implicit in sort of the project and possibly the 547 00:29:01,590 --> 00:29:04,620 impact for you is the fact that you now have 80 plus new 548 00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:08,080 connections you wouldn't have had if you hadn't done the 549 00:29:08,090 --> 00:29:10,300 project. But also if you situate that 550 00:29:10,310 --> 00:29:13,040 within the program itself and the closeness with which you 551 00:29:13,050 --> 00:29:16,420 have built relationships, friendships with, you know, your 552 00:29:16,430 --> 00:29:19,390 colleagues in the class, they have their own connections. 553 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:23,600 And so together, you have a strong fabric of individuals 554 00:29:23,610 --> 00:29:26,770 with whom you may be able to speak, you share contacts and 555 00:29:26,780 --> 00:29:30,050 knowledge. And that is really one of the 556 00:29:30,060 --> 00:29:34,370 most sort of the fundamental aspects of networking is that 557 00:29:34,440 --> 00:29:36,950 together, when you have those connections, you can get more 558 00:29:36,960 --> 00:29:40,610 information, thoughtful insights, different 559 00:29:40,620 --> 00:29:43,750 perspectives, and that you can share that sort of sense of 560 00:29:43,760 --> 00:29:46,190 community with many, many other people. 561 00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:48,690 And so I think that may be inherent in that is the fact 562 00:29:48,700 --> 00:29:51,850 that you are much more closely connected to people in the 563 00:29:51,860 --> 00:29:55,410 practice of law than you ever have been before, but also that 564 00:29:55,460 --> 00:29:58,770 you are available to build those connections with other people 565 00:29:58,780 --> 00:30:01,190 too, and they with you. So I think that that's an 566 00:30:01,200 --> 00:30:06,340 exciting outcome as well. Has been, and it led, you know, 567 00:30:06,350 --> 00:30:10,600 to new speakers at the podcast. He led to people that weren't 568 00:30:10,610 --> 00:30:14,320 connected to the university that we still chatted and we, we 569 00:30:14,330 --> 00:30:17,180 said, Hey, let's have a podcast in the future because I'd love 570 00:30:17,190 --> 00:30:20,620 to, you know, get to hear more about that there. 571 00:30:20,630 --> 00:30:23,000 It was incredible to me that people were reaching out about 572 00:30:23,010 --> 00:30:24,380 it. Something that was interesting 573 00:30:24,390 --> 00:30:28,580 too, is that when I, when I shared these two initiatives 574 00:30:28,590 --> 00:30:32,940 that I have one being the podcast and separately, the 75 575 00:30:32,950 --> 00:30:36,740 lawyer project. It's hard for, you know, for 576 00:30:36,750 --> 00:30:39,840 everybody to, you know, come and know all about my life, right? 577 00:30:39,850 --> 00:30:43,660 So it happened that a lot of people were like, Oh, so we are 578 00:30:43,670 --> 00:30:47,160 recording a podcast and I'm like, OK, let me just try to 579 00:30:47,170 --> 00:30:49,400 explain this again, right? I have these two different 580 00:30:49,410 --> 00:30:54,090 projects that I work on, like 75 project lawyer is not a podcast 581 00:30:54,160 --> 00:30:55,990 and we're just getting done with that. 582 00:30:56,000 --> 00:30:58,440 And the podcast is just something that I do for fun and 583 00:30:58,450 --> 00:31:00,570 that I have been doing for a couple of years now. 584 00:31:00,640 --> 00:31:04,970 But it was just interesting also to see how in a way your, your 585 00:31:04,980 --> 00:31:07,320 image gets, you know, attached to all these things. 586 00:31:07,330 --> 00:31:11,250 And then I just had to unroll it a little bit and say like, OK, 587 00:31:11,260 --> 00:31:15,970 so box day, box B, box C kind of go over all of that. 588 00:31:16,020 --> 00:31:19,530 But it was just just being quite quite an incredible experience. 589 00:31:19,540 --> 00:31:23,950 And I feel like that's one of the big like untangles of going 590 00:31:23,960 --> 00:31:27,690 to law school, going through this route for licensing is that 591 00:31:27,700 --> 00:31:30,530 you get to meet a lot more people because it can be a very 592 00:31:30,540 --> 00:31:32,730 lonely Rd. if you're just challenging the exams. 593 00:31:32,740 --> 00:31:35,870 And I'm glad there's more and more communities and 594 00:31:35,880 --> 00:31:37,990 organizations that are helping out with that. 595 00:31:38,130 --> 00:31:41,840 But honestly, belonging to a community, having colleagues 596 00:31:41,850 --> 00:31:44,340 that are going through the same process and then getting to 597 00:31:44,390 --> 00:31:47,940 reach to all these people that have gone through, you know, 598 00:31:48,010 --> 00:31:50,500 their law school experience, their bar exams, and they are in 599 00:31:50,510 --> 00:31:53,960 practice for so many years. It's just a very, very 600 00:31:53,970 --> 00:31:56,210 interesting. And especially to see that, you 601 00:31:56,220 --> 00:32:00,140 know, it's possible that, you know, different ways will work 602 00:32:00,150 --> 00:32:04,220 out in the end, just gives a lot of a lot of hope, excitement 603 00:32:04,230 --> 00:32:07,460 and, and even meaning. As you know, older graduates are 604 00:32:07,470 --> 00:32:10,690 now talking about, you know, the legacy they want to give or how 605 00:32:10,700 --> 00:32:14,040 much they want to give back to the university and how much they 606 00:32:14,050 --> 00:32:16,380 feel like it changed their life completely. 607 00:32:16,470 --> 00:32:20,280 There's a few of the graduates that I spoke to that are working 608 00:32:20,890 --> 00:32:24,100 fewer at the law school with, you know, alumni relations now 609 00:32:24,110 --> 00:32:27,410 and the alumni board. I forgot the the specific name 610 00:32:27,420 --> 00:32:30,700 of the association, but it's just very interesting to see 611 00:32:30,710 --> 00:32:34,210 these people that have graduated 3040 years ago and that are 612 00:32:34,220 --> 00:32:36,290 coming back and that they feel that they are very much 613 00:32:36,300 --> 00:32:39,550 connected to the university and they want to give back and 614 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:41,330 mentor the next generation. Shoot. 615 00:32:41,340 --> 00:32:43,350 Absolutely. And I think that's probably a 616 00:32:43,360 --> 00:32:46,690 beautiful sort of pause. You know, I, I think hopefully 617 00:32:46,700 --> 00:32:49,710 people who are listening in are, are realizing just how 618 00:32:49,720 --> 00:32:53,480 interconnected and how important networking is, not because of 619 00:32:53,490 --> 00:32:56,970 the job, you know, that is of course going to be part of it. 620 00:32:57,020 --> 00:33:00,490 But I think the larger point is, is that people want to feel 621 00:33:00,500 --> 00:33:04,110 connected, they care, they want to leave a legacy, they want to 622 00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:08,310 make a positive impact. And your invitation to do so, I 623 00:33:08,320 --> 00:33:12,540 think has made you know it's 80 plus people feel more connected 624 00:33:12,670 --> 00:33:16,840 with each other and you and the university because you genuinely 625 00:33:16,850 --> 00:33:19,560 wanted to meet with them. So I wanted to just congratulate 626 00:33:19,570 --> 00:33:23,280 you on what has been a remarkable project and I know it 627 00:33:23,290 --> 00:33:26,670 will unfold and unfurl and really interesting ways over the 628 00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:28,860 years. Ahead, I'm just very happy to 629 00:33:28,870 --> 00:33:33,300 have, you know, the support of the university in many ways to 630 00:33:33,310 --> 00:33:36,240 have all the, all the team following up with me and seeing 631 00:33:36,250 --> 00:33:38,940 how is it going, saying how is it going when we, when we, you 632 00:33:38,950 --> 00:33:41,790 know, crossed paths in the corridors, going to class and 633 00:33:41,800 --> 00:33:44,400 all of that. And it really wouldn't be 634 00:33:44,410 --> 00:33:46,680 possible without being a part of this community. 635 00:33:46,690 --> 00:33:51,110 So I'm just very thankful for for this time that I have had 636 00:33:51,120 --> 00:33:55,420 the opportunity to be at UF, you know, to get to know you Erica 637 00:33:55,430 --> 00:33:58,440 personally, to get to know, you know, the, the other members of 638 00:33:58,450 --> 00:34:00,250 the team. But it's just being an 639 00:34:00,260 --> 00:34:02,990 incredible experience. And I've noticed more and more 640 00:34:03,060 --> 00:34:05,870 the importance of having some kind of, you know, personal 641 00:34:05,880 --> 00:34:09,530 project or something that you get to, you know, experience on. 642 00:34:09,540 --> 00:34:13,280 And, and a lot of people did that through undergrad and, and 643 00:34:13,290 --> 00:34:14,980 all of that. But it was just a great 644 00:34:14,989 --> 00:34:18,920 opportunity for me to get, you know, more people, but also to 645 00:34:18,929 --> 00:34:23,020 get to do something and, and remind myself that I can do hard 646 00:34:23,030 --> 00:34:26,429 things and I can start and finish projects and just, you 647 00:34:26,440 --> 00:34:29,310 know, just that kind of experience really. 648 00:34:29,370 --> 00:34:32,199 Yeah, that's excellent advice, Excellent advice, Claudia. 649 00:34:32,250 --> 00:34:34,020 Amazing. Well, thank you so much for 650 00:34:34,030 --> 00:34:37,500 joining me once again, Erica. It's it's much appreciated. 651 00:34:37,510 --> 00:34:40,219 And I don't know if I want you to come back because I keep 652 00:34:40,230 --> 00:34:43,880 thinking that if you come back here, it probably means that the 653 00:34:43,889 --> 00:34:47,040 program is over. That may have to happen. 654 00:34:47,050 --> 00:34:49,600 I mean, you know, if you want to come back for another program, 655 00:34:49,610 --> 00:34:52,120 you let us know. You know, we, we also know that 656 00:34:52,130 --> 00:34:56,380 success means that in, you know, the, the autumn, you will be 657 00:34:56,389 --> 00:34:59,710 wearing your graduation towns along with your classmates, 658 00:34:59,720 --> 00:35:03,580 walking out of Convocation Hall onto front campus, celebrating 659 00:35:03,590 --> 00:35:07,490 this moment of accomplishment. And we, we take such great joy 660 00:35:07,500 --> 00:35:11,510 in watching you all work hard, go through the lumps and bumps 661 00:35:11,520 --> 00:35:14,130 of the program and to flourish in the ways that you all 662 00:35:14,140 --> 00:35:17,190 uniquely are flourishing. So yeah, I know we should have 663 00:35:17,200 --> 00:35:21,100 another conversation before we go, but I think for today we'll 664 00:35:21,320 --> 00:35:23,370 we'll just say let's keep talking sometimes. 665 00:35:23,620 --> 00:35:26,070 There you go, there you go. For sure we will. 666 00:35:26,080 --> 00:35:28,570 Thank you so much for joining. Once again, thank you all for 667 00:35:28,580 --> 00:35:31,380 tuning into this episode and we'll talk soon.