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Welcome to studying law around 
the world I'm Claudio Claus in 

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each episode, I talk with 
lawyers, law students, and 

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professors from different parts 
of the world to talk about legal

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education, careers, and what the
profession looks like in real 

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life we talk about the hard 
parts, the surprises, and the 

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decisions that shaped their 
paths whether you're planning. 

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To study abroad. 
Thinking about working in 

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another legal system or just 
curious about how law works 

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around the world? 
This podcast is for you. 

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Today I have the opportunity to 
host Patricia Gannon. 

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She has over 30 years in the 
legal profession. 

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She is the founder and CEO of 
Flatform 9, an incredible app 

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where legal minds can connect. 
It's an interactive podcast, and

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we'll hear all about it today. 
Thank you so much for making the

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time to be in the podcast, 
Patricia. 

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Great to be with you. 
Really appreciate it. 

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And to start off our 
conversation, I'd love for you 

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to introduce yourself to our 
listeners and maybe what 

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inspired you, you know, in this 
journey from an international 

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law firm founder to attack 
entrepreneur. 

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Well, it's an interesting life 
and you never know where you're 

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going to end up, right? 
So you got to be kind of open 

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minded and flexible along the 
way. 

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My background is I am an Irish 
qualified lawyer. 

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I studied law in Trinity College
in Dublin. 

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I was always interested in 
international law and in the 

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comparatives. 
You know, I would because I love

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to travel now. 
This is why I love your podcast,

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love the idea of, you know, 
getting some personal experience

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and then understanding 
professionally what's going on 

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in different parts of the world.
So I knew kind of from day one 

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when I studied law, I was not 
going to spend my whole career 

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in Ireland. 
So for me, moving around was 

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key. 
I spent some time at a German 

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interdisciplinary law firm in 
Munich. 

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I spent some time at the 
European Commission in Brussels.

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And then I ended up for my sins 
down in the Balkans, which was a

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super interesting move for me 
because it was obviously it was 

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a personal story to start with. 
But then together with my 

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partner, we built what became 
the largest law firm in former 

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Yugoslavia with over 200 lawyers
in eight markets. 

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So that was kind of a, you know,
you know, not something I 

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thought I would be doing, but 
the opportunity presented itself

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and I guess having a bit of an 
open mindset, I just thought, 

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let's try this, what can we 
lose? 

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And it was a great journey. 
Fantastic. 

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Let's dive right into that. 
Tell me a little bit more about,

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you know, building the largest 
law firm in the Balkans. 

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Looking back, are there a few, 
you know, important lessons 

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about leadership, trust, culture
that really stayed with you? 

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Oh my gosh, yes, absolutely. 
I mean, firstly, I think timing 

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is key. 
You know, in life, you know, 

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there's the right time and the 
wrong time. 

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And also mindset is key, which 
is, you know, there's the right 

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mindset that makes it work or 
there's the wrong mindset and it

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fails, right. 
So there's getting that sort of 

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right is kind of important. 
And for us, because there were 

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no law firms in that part of the
world in the way we know in the 

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Western world. 
So we were the first fully 

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integrated, multiple sort of 
practice area, uh, oriented 

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firm. 
So a structure where lawyers 

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didn't just sort of 
historically, they used to just 

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share the expenses in a in a 
common often space, but each 

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lawyer was very much an 
individual on their own. 

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So the idea of building a firm 
where people would be trained to

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perform in the same way where 
you build a brand, that's one of

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the things I love to do. 
I like building brands. 

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I think they need to mean 
something. 

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So that means that you hire the 
right people who fit into your 

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brand, you communicate in 
similar way, you know, around 

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your brand, you attract the same
type of clients. 

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So it's really, really important
on brand. 

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So if I look back at I spent 20 
years doing that, So growing 

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from zero to, you know, to this 
number and successfully 

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economically in a world which 
was just emerging from, you 

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know, the war in Yugoslavia was,
was kind of key, I guess 

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determined, you know, this, this
original determination to build 

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something that was unique. 
I think that was probably the 

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first driver. 
Secondly, really bringing the 

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younger lawyers along with us. 
I think for me and anyone who 

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knows me and a lot of people do 
over these years, and they do 

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know that I love bringing 
younger lawyers with me on the 

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journey. 
So sharing the experience, 

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bringing them to events, being 
very open about how you get 

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clients, all of that stuff is 
super, super important. 

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And today probably even more 
than ever in terms of sort of, I

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guess leadership style, I tend 
to be fast and furious a little 

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bit. 
Um, it might be difficult, but I

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would hope fair, you know, a 
determined direct. 

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I mean, that's the Irish. 
I guess I'm a, I do talk a lot. 

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She'll have already observed, 
and that's all to the Irish 

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inmate. 
But I think that's important in 

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building, you know, 
relationships with people. 

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Oh, that's amazing, but what a 
story. 

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So considering all of that 
contacts, you know, I, I believe

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that many lawyers think a lot 
about career transitions. 

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There's a lot of hesitation in 
the field anywhere in the world 

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talking to over 100 lawyers now.
It's been very clear that that's

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kind of widespread. 
And I'm curious to know, you 

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know, for you personally, what 
gave you the confidence, you 

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know, step into something new 
after, you know, a long time in 

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a successful legal career? 
No, you're absolutely right, and

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I didn't do it overnight. 
I mean, as is normal with 

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lawyers, you sort of you think 
about things for quite a while 

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before you do them. 
And so for me, it was about IGS 

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successfully exit and sold my 
business. 

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So #1 you know, leads to stage 
of my life where I'd had one 

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successful career and I didn't 
want to do the same thing again.

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That was clear. 
And then came COVID, you know, 

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which had a huge impact on all 
of us in terms of evaluating 

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what, what we wanted to do. 
So I went back and spent quite a

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bit of time, including with, you
know, a coach on, you know, 

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looking at what are my core 
values, you know, for whatever 

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length of time I have on the 
planet, you know, what are the 

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core values that are important 
to me. 

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And I feel I'm very much in a 
privileged position in that I 

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can actually build something 
that adheres to my core values, 

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which are one, I think I've 
alluded to it earlier is 

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bringing younger lawyers along 
on their journey earlier in 

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their career to I'm a 
fundamental believe believer in 

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human communication. 
I think we need to communicate 

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even more effectively in an age 
of AI than less effectively. 

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We need to have the skills and 
the confidence to do so, which, 

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you know, increasingly we're 
seeing people on that. 

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It's on the decline. 
People are less comfortable 

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about live sessions or maybe 
less comfortable about speaking.

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And we hear there's a lot of 
texting and what's happening and

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all of that going on. 
But let's look at the human 

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voice because that's ultimately 
and, and even today, that's 

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ultimately how we're connecting 
with people now. 

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So I managed to do and then 
combining that with efficiency. 

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So I'm all about efficiency. 
So rather than sending, for 

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example, lawyers all over the 
world to different events and 

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stuff, let's find a way where we
can bring the events to them in 

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the place that where they're 
always present, which is on 

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their devices. 
That's amazing. 

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That's amazing. 
So just before I ask you a 

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little more about, you know, 
your, your app and all of that, 

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I wanted to ask you, you know 
what, what role has, you know, 

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networking, building communities
played in your life? 

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Vital, absolutely vital. 
Firstly, I, I now know I'm a 

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Nash worker. 
I'm a, I'm a connector. 

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I love connecting people, even 
if I get nothing out of it, but 

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I have, I like putting people 
together there. 

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That's a certain personality 
type and I clearly have it. 

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I am also an entrepreneur. 
Now I realise that much later, 

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not not lawyer, lawyer, but 
actually an entrepreneur, which 

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is that I, I see opportunity 
everywhere, you know, and you 

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actually have to tame that down 
sometimes. 

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Networking is super important, 
building your own network of 

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people, like minded people and 
even different people to 

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yourself. 
This is where, you know, in a 

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very polarized world, I felt 
it's really important to bring 

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together people that you don't 
necessarily agree with, but you 

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can have a professional, 
respectful conversation about 

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how you disagree with each 
other. 

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And keeping a space open to be 
able to do that is key for me. 

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Amazing. 
Now let's dive in and learn a 

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little bit about Platform 9. 
I want to hear, you know what it

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is. 
Can you tell our listeners and 

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and also how does it change the 
way the lawyers connect and 

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learn? 
Yeah, love us. 

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I mean, it is kind of still a 
unique product. 

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There doesn't seem to be 
anything like it's in the world,

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which is either a good thing or 
a very bad thing. 

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And we'll find out where a 
startup obviously as a startup 

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platform 9 does. 
It is like an interactive 

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podcast, if that's the best way 
to describe it. 

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Some of you guys might have been
on Clubhouse in the early days 

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during COVID. 
Similar model to clubhouse in, 

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you know, in terms of the back 
end, as in it's, uh, it's a, 

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it's a conversation. 
So rather than a panel or even a

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webinar where people have ready 
made content and they're really 

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just in a way regurgitating 
ready made content, right? 

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This is actually quite authentic
because yes, we have our 

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moderators who speak a little 
bit about the topic, that of of 

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the day and of the session, but 
ultimately we open up of the 

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conversation to everybody in the
audience. 

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So people like to participate. 
What makes it different to a 

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podcast is you can raise your 
hand and you can have your say. 

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That's quite nice. 
That's amazing. 

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That's quite incredible. 
I was reading a little bit about

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your platform and the the 
materials you put out there and 

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they say it's very much 
described as, you know, people 

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first space in legal tech. 
And I love how you explained a 

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little bit about, you know, the 
concept and how people can 

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participate. 
I'm curious to know, you know, 

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how do you make sure it stays, 
it stays human centred in this, 

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you know, fast moving AI world? 
We are so right and it is a 

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challenge, you know, the shiny, 
shiny AI, shiny shiny parts is, 

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is something that we, you know, 
we use AI for our session 

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memories. 
That's at our integration with 

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AI. 
And but we are human first 

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because people still want to be 
part of communities. 

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And you know, we've made that a 
choice at this at this time and 

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that it's really only individual
lawyers. 

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They gather in forums. 
Those forums are specific 

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communities of lawyers. 
So right now, you know, we have 

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international arbitration, we 
have coaching, we've business 

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development, we have law firm 
management, we have students, we

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have, you know, practice AI act.
We have a whole load of very 

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specific forums. 
Because what we realized is that

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of LinkedIn is a fantastic tool 
for lawyers and clearly the most

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important one out there when it 
comes to professionals, but it's

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actually isn't really a good 
community building. 

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And we felt using voice around 
regular content, you know, 

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hosted in your forum so that 
every, you know, say your forum 

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does a session every Tuesday at 
12. 

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You know, you're going to hear 
the voices of people like 

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yourself who have similar 
interests or our practical 

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issues with their with their 
practice and that they want to 

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learn from. 
So, you know, the sessions are 

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live, they're recorded, they're 
then transcribed and summarized 

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with AI. 
And which means that we get like

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literally for 1/2 an hour. 
We micro dose, by the way, on 

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content. 
We're not doing more than half 

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an hour. 
Lawyers, as we all know, have a 

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tendency to speak and can be 
somewhat long winded. 

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So we decided at a very early 
stage, let's keep it to 30 

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minutes more regular, 30 
minutes. 

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Short, snappy, to the point, 
properly summarized, is exactly 

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the kind of content our lawyers 
want. 

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Amazing. 
And I wanna hear it. 

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We were just at the beginning of
February. 

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Now, as we record this podcast, 
I wanna hear what kinds of 

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conversations are are happening 
in the platform and also, you 

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know what makes it special and 
that you don't see out there. 

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I know it's a good point. 
Like yesterday I made a great 

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session with the lovely Helen 
Burness, who is an expert in, in

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LinkedIn for lawyers. 
So we did and we had a really 

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interactive session because 
there was lots of people there. 

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Um, you know, we maybe 3540 
people live who asked very 

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practical questions about how 
the algorithm has changed on 

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LinkedIn, how we can, you know, 
tweak our content to be more 

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relevant and to build the 
community. 

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I mean, it is clearly in this 
day, it was one of the points 

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she made I thought was 
wonderful. 

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LinkedIn is the ultimate 
business marketplace, but it is 

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very much about it is people 
buying people. 

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And what we took away from all 
of that is that, you know, yes, 

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you demonstrate on your LinkedIn
strategy, you may demonstrate 

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your expertise and, and you 
know, you just demystify some of

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your practice area, but 
ultimately you have, it's your 

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personal brand. 
So we do talk a lot about how 

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lawyers and younger, you know, 
not younger lawyers, but all 

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lawyers really needs to develop 
a personal brand, which needs to

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be authentic and consistent 
without taking up too much time.

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I think that's the other 
feature, all the lawyers we talk

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to, everyone is super time poor.
So how can we find ways in which

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we can be efficient with our 
time and yet build our personal 

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brand? 
So that makes it quite 

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difference. 
What have we got? 

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Tomorrow we're doing a wonderful
session on the European AI Act 

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and there are new guidelines 
expected in Europe. 

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This is hugely important to 
everybody. 

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We've done comparisons last year
with the Americans. 

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We're also taking a look at in 
the future with China. 

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So we're looking at blocks of 
different regulation all over 

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the world. 
And that's something we quite 

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like to do on this app. 
We quite like to be able to 

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compare and contrast what's 
going on in different parts of 

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the world. 
And that's been a bit of fun. 

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People like that, that makes it 
different. 

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I think not. 
Absolutely, absolutely no. 

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I love that. 
I'm also curious to know, you 

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know, how are you seeing young 
lawyers using the platform? 

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And also, you know, how can each
group learn from each other, 

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thinking about, you know, senior
professionals joining in, early 

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career professionals joining in.
Good point. 

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We did a lovely session last 
year, probably end of April. 

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We did, um, a legal career week 
and we specifically targeted 

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universities in the UK and 
Ireland. 

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We're going global, but we're 
not doing it every country. 

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And at the same time, obviously 
we're doing it baby step, baby 

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step and, and understanding the 
community better. 

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So a lot of our, lot of our time
and energy is spent on deep 

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diving into the personas that 
we're trying to attract and they

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are all slightly different 
personas. 

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So for, if you look at our law 
students, our aim with the law 

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students was to help them 
understand the opportunities 

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that are available to them once 
they get their degree and also 

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to take a look at the practical 
skills that they need in order 

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to get those jobs. 
So we did a week long of 

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sessions where we brought in 
some early careers people from 

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some of the bigger firms. 
We took a full deep dive into 

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the methodology that they use 
when they're hiring. 

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So how they're using AI, when 
they're evaluating the CVS, how 

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they integrate the what they're 
looking for, what are the legal 

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skills of the non legal skills 
is another really important 

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factor. 
And there's a lot of focus on 

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that now. 
So we would also do things like 

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we did a little 3 minute 
elevator pitch. 

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We were literally, people were 
on the on and I remember turning

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around and just say, OK guys, 
you know, Tom, you were there, 

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00:14:59,740 --> 00:15:02,040
you know, you got 3 minutes to 
tell me why you shouldn't hire 

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00:15:02,050 --> 00:15:04,600
you. 
And Tom, you know, fumbles his 

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00:15:04,610 --> 00:15:08,290
way through, you know, I because
I got a 21IN whatever and I love

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00:15:08,300 --> 00:15:10,130
law and whatever. 
It's like, no, that's not going 

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00:15:10,140 --> 00:15:11,600
to hack it. 
Now we gotta, we gotta do better

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00:15:11,610 --> 00:15:13,730
than that. 
So actually it's, you know, it's

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done in a very safe space and 
then in a very generous way. 

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But the idea is to get people to
think a little bit more about 

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how they present themselves. 
So that was a really interesting

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00:15:23,500 --> 00:15:26,210
thing last year. 
We've had wonderful drawed 

305
00:15:26,220 --> 00:15:30,590
Haddon last on last week, who 
um, is running a newsletter AI 

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00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:35,480
and how AI and being educated in
AI is affecting his traineeship 

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00:15:35,490 --> 00:15:37,130
at the moment. 
So that was quite interesting. 

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And we will build out 
communities and that look mash 

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00:15:40,020 --> 00:15:44,670
the impact of AI used in law 
firms on their training and the 

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00:15:44,680 --> 00:15:48,610
concerns that many of them have 
about how this will change their

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role in the future and their 
progression in the futures. 

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All of these discussions are 
very real. 

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And that's that particular 
segment. 

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00:15:54,940 --> 00:15:57,880
Clearly the, you know, two or 
three years post qualified will 

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00:15:57,890 --> 00:16:01,270
have different issues. 
Um, many that are on, you know, 

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00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,410
a senior associate levels 
looking at career progression. 

317
00:16:04,500 --> 00:16:07,330
They're looking at ways in which
they can validate to their 

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00:16:07,340 --> 00:16:10,490
employer that they have a 
thought leadership role, that 

319
00:16:10,500 --> 00:16:13,890
they have something to say. 
And they have a very nice medium

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00:16:13,900 --> 00:16:16,350
with platform 9. 
And to be able to say it in, you

321
00:16:16,360 --> 00:16:18,840
know, to build their own 
community in their way, we've 

322
00:16:18,850 --> 00:16:21,740
got to let younger lawyers do 
some things in their way. 

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00:16:22,530 --> 00:16:25,430
Using and looking ahead, what 
what's next for for the 

324
00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:28,940
platform? 
Continuing to grow we've just 

325
00:16:28,950 --> 00:16:31,910
signed, um, we're signing paid 
pilots now with large 

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00:16:31,920 --> 00:16:34,680
organizations like the Law 
Society in Ireland has just 

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00:16:34,690 --> 00:16:39,360
signed a large, um, a large 
pilot for a large number of 

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00:16:39,370 --> 00:16:42,340
in-house councils in Ireland. 
That's this is kind of 

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00:16:42,350 --> 00:16:43,750
exclusive. 
We haven't really publicly 

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00:16:43,760 --> 00:16:45,710
announced yet, but anyways, 
we're working on it in the 

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00:16:45,720 --> 00:16:47,960
background and we've just 
introduced new features on the 

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00:16:47,970 --> 00:16:50,300
app. 
So, uh, live from 1st of March, 

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00:16:50,310 --> 00:16:53,620
we now you can join using your 
LinkedIn makes it much easier to

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00:16:53,630 --> 00:16:57,360
get on to the app and we are 
building out the forums in full 

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00:16:57,370 --> 00:16:59,420
force. 
So lots of communities are being

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00:16:59,430 --> 00:17:04,119
built on this app and we have 
introduced a Twitter like 

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00:17:04,130 --> 00:17:07,579
function which allows lawyers 
even outside of the live 

338
00:17:07,589 --> 00:17:09,410
sessions and listening into the 
recordings. 

339
00:17:09,420 --> 00:17:12,089
You know, we realize it wasn't 
live enough, there wasn't enough

340
00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:14,390
going on. 
So we've introduced this kind of

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00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:17,270
stickiness feature, which is 
like Twitter. 

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00:17:17,280 --> 00:17:19,579
So basically, you know, you 
listen into it and you, you've 

343
00:17:19,589 --> 00:17:22,270
got something to say or you got 
a comparative or you've got your

344
00:17:22,280 --> 00:17:25,190
office newsletter they'd like to
share with the particular group.

345
00:17:25,240 --> 00:17:29,050
Um, that way we keep people on 
longer and they get more value 

346
00:17:29,060 --> 00:17:32,130
out of it. 
As a final thing here to to 

347
00:17:32,140 --> 00:17:35,170
close today's episode, I wanted 
to ask you if you were, you 

348
00:17:35,180 --> 00:17:40,050
know, to give your younger self 
living in this generation, I 

349
00:17:40,060 --> 00:17:43,010
kind of advice that you you wish
you had heard early in your 

350
00:17:43,020 --> 00:17:46,890
career as a lawyer and that you 
know, is informed by all the, 

351
00:17:46,980 --> 00:17:50,350
the intelligence that you've 
collected and wisdom throughout 

352
00:17:50,360 --> 00:17:52,450
your life. 
What would you you know 

353
00:17:52,460 --> 00:17:55,190
recommend or what kind of advice
would you give yourself? 

354
00:17:55,360 --> 00:17:58,570
I think at the end of the day, 
probably took a lot of things 

355
00:17:58,580 --> 00:18:00,850
far too seriously. 
I, I love what I do. 

356
00:18:00,860 --> 00:18:03,950
I've always loved what I do and 
I builder, I'm full of energy, 

357
00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,410
I'm blessed with energy. 
So I think look after your 

358
00:18:06,420 --> 00:18:09,050
energy. 
Try not to be affected by 

359
00:18:09,060 --> 00:18:11,750
negativity around you. 
There's so much negativity out 

360
00:18:11,760 --> 00:18:13,610
there. 
Just try to protect yourself 

361
00:18:13,620 --> 00:18:17,370
from that negativity by being 
associated with other positive, 

362
00:18:17,380 --> 00:18:21,710
enabling people who are somewhat
hopeful for the future and, and 

363
00:18:21,720 --> 00:18:23,430
enjoy it. 
Do what you enjoy. 

364
00:18:23,440 --> 00:18:27,070
The resilience is a story that 
we, we get a lot, You know, 

365
00:18:27,080 --> 00:18:29,940
older lawyers tend to be a 
little skeptical about the 

366
00:18:29,950 --> 00:18:32,470
levels of resist, you know, 
resilience that younger lawyers 

367
00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:34,850
might have. 
And I just think they're growing

368
00:18:34,860 --> 00:18:38,460
up in a fundamentally different 
world and there's a lot of 

369
00:18:38,470 --> 00:18:40,660
external pressure. 
There's a lot of, you know, the 

370
00:18:40,670 --> 00:18:43,300
multitasking is huge. 
The new technology is huge. 

371
00:18:43,310 --> 00:18:45,920
There's a fear factor out there.
What does that mean? 

372
00:18:46,130 --> 00:18:49,320
I would just say keep an open 
agile mindset. 

373
00:18:49,630 --> 00:18:52,700
You are the, what you're doing 
today may be very different in 

374
00:18:52,710 --> 00:18:55,880
five years time. 
And just being curious enough to

375
00:18:55,890 --> 00:18:58,860
explore it, just try it. 
What do you lose? 

376
00:18:58,870 --> 00:19:00,140
What do you know? 
What do you lose it? 

377
00:19:00,150 --> 00:19:03,300
You know, and, and forgive 
yourself if it's not perfect. 

378
00:19:03,310 --> 00:19:06,480
Lawyers tend to be really, 
really hard on themselves. 

379
00:19:06,650 --> 00:19:08,660
You know, we're not perfect. 
We're not machines. 

380
00:19:08,670 --> 00:19:11,400
You've got the AI for that. 
You know, we're, we're the human

381
00:19:11,410 --> 00:19:14,320
part, right? 
So find the right people around 

382
00:19:14,330 --> 00:19:18,270
you, develop your own personal 
resilience by by taking breaks 

383
00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:20,620
and not being so hard on 
yourself, and just keep an open 

384
00:19:20,630 --> 00:19:22,210
mind. 
Yeah, that'd be about it. 

385
00:19:22,500 --> 00:19:24,570
Amazing. 
I really appreciate it and thank

386
00:19:24,580 --> 00:19:26,550
you all for tuning into today's 
episode. 

387
00:19:27,280 --> 00:19:28,510
Loved it. 
Thank you. 

388
00:19:28,560 --> 00:19:29,060
Great one.