1 00:00:12,070 --> 00:00:14,850 Hello everybody, Welcome to another episode of Studying Law 2 00:00:14,860 --> 00:00:17,360 Around the World. Today I have the opportunity to 3 00:00:17,370 --> 00:00:21,240 be chatting with Mercedes Garcia will be speaking about her 4 00:00:21,250 --> 00:00:25,320 career in Argentina, her career in Canada and just lots of 5 00:00:25,330 --> 00:00:29,200 different insights that we're so excited to bring to you today. 6 00:00:29,250 --> 00:00:32,560 I got the chance to meet Mercedes a couple of weeks back 7 00:00:32,570 --> 00:00:36,700 at a mining conference at the PDC, which is a very, very 8 00:00:36,710 --> 00:00:38,950 interesting event that happens here in Canada. 9 00:00:39,010 --> 00:00:41,920 And we connected then and since then I have been chatting a 10 00:00:41,930 --> 00:00:46,140 little bit, got started thinking about doing a podcast episode 11 00:00:46,150 --> 00:00:48,450 together. So thank you so much for joining 12 00:00:48,460 --> 00:00:51,050 us today, Mercedes. Well, hello everybody. 13 00:00:51,060 --> 00:00:52,990 Thank you for having me. Claudio. 14 00:00:53,000 --> 00:00:57,110 It's a big pleasure to be part of your podcast because as you 15 00:00:57,120 --> 00:01:00,860 mentioned, it was a complete surprise to me meeting you at at 16 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:04,069 PDC in the context we met because both of us were 17 00:01:04,080 --> 00:01:07,610 volunteering. And as part of that meeting 18 00:01:07,620 --> 00:01:11,570 someone that has the same career path and that we have so many 19 00:01:11,580 --> 00:01:15,310 things in common because Claudio is Brazilian, I am Argentinian 20 00:01:15,320 --> 00:01:20,810 and the like, we are all Latin American feelings here doing 21 00:01:20,820 --> 00:01:24,740 more or less the same. I, I felt in, in, in in a 22 00:01:24,750 --> 00:01:27,480 comfortable position from the very first time. 23 00:01:27,490 --> 00:01:30,450 And then when I knew that she had this, this podcast, I have 24 00:01:30,460 --> 00:01:34,940 been listening to it actively. And don't get me wrong, I love 25 00:01:34,950 --> 00:01:37,580 it. And I take notes of every single 26 00:01:37,590 --> 00:01:40,600 guest you have. So I hope that I can bring some 27 00:01:40,610 --> 00:01:43,800 ideas to to your listeners. Thank you so much. 28 00:01:43,870 --> 00:01:45,700 It's really great to have you here today. 29 00:01:45,790 --> 00:01:49,960 And to start our conversation today, I'd love to hear a little 30 00:01:49,970 --> 00:01:53,240 bit about, you know, your early steps of your legal career. 31 00:01:53,310 --> 00:01:56,980 What draw draw you to law? Did you always wanted to be a 32 00:01:56,990 --> 00:01:59,180 lawyer? How did that happen to you? 33 00:01:59,230 --> 00:02:02,370 Well, I was born and raised in a little farm town. 34 00:02:02,380 --> 00:02:07,050 My parents are farmers and I, I'm going to spoil it. 35 00:02:07,060 --> 00:02:11,370 I, I was the first university graduate from both sides of my 36 00:02:11,380 --> 00:02:13,810 families. I was the, the first one that 37 00:02:13,820 --> 00:02:17,590 wanted to have a, a university degree, but I started 38 00:02:17,640 --> 00:02:19,710 translation. I wanted to be a legal 39 00:02:19,720 --> 00:02:23,420 translator, but I went to study to Buenos Itis. 40 00:02:23,430 --> 00:02:26,510 I was 17 years old. There was not so much Internet 41 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:28,710 around, so you could only see the programs. 42 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:31,940 And at some point I started the initial courses and I, and 43 00:02:31,950 --> 00:02:34,290 people would ask me what, what are you going to do as a 44 00:02:34,300 --> 00:02:36,440 translator? And it was like, well, I'm going 45 00:02:36,450 --> 00:02:39,010 to translate documents and they were like, you're going to be 46 00:02:39,020 --> 00:02:43,690 replaced like by computers. And then I started doing my own 47 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:45,790 search. I started going to the law 48 00:02:45,800 --> 00:02:48,890 school and I realized that the translation apartment was so 49 00:02:48,900 --> 00:02:52,910 small, so small in such a big building to have an idea, the 50 00:02:52,920 --> 00:03:00,230 law school has 24,000 students at the time and the translator 51 00:03:00,240 --> 00:03:03,170 career has less than 1000 of all those students. 52 00:03:03,180 --> 00:03:07,270 So you can like you are kind of a pariah at the law school and 53 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,800 like you are given the last courses and everything. 54 00:03:09,810 --> 00:03:13,990 And it said I think that I won't be liking doing these things 55 00:03:14,000 --> 00:03:17,290 this way and this is the right time for me to change. 56 00:03:17,360 --> 00:03:21,400 So I changed and I know I never told anyone until I had made the 57 00:03:21,410 --> 00:03:23,830 decision. I, I did the change into law 58 00:03:23,840 --> 00:03:28,530 school and with me, I, I had like that interest because I 59 00:03:28,540 --> 00:03:32,460 liked international commerce, international trade, I liked 60 00:03:32,470 --> 00:03:36,190 economy and other things and politics as well. 61 00:03:36,290 --> 00:03:40,230 So I found my well away at law school that it's like, it's not 62 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,860 that I wanted to be a lawyer all the time. 63 00:03:42,910 --> 00:03:46,680 I think that it has been a transition and, and, and a path 64 00:03:46,690 --> 00:03:51,380 that has been a continuous discovery of subjects of people 65 00:03:51,390 --> 00:03:55,140 of different frameworks. And well, it has put me in 66 00:03:55,150 --> 00:03:59,320 different situations to analyze life and any human interaction. 67 00:03:59,330 --> 00:04:02,440 That's what what attracts me about love that gives you a 68 00:04:02,450 --> 00:04:06,390 framework to analyze anything that is in this planet, at least 69 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:08,740 still, I still haven't done anything about spatial. 70 00:04:08,750 --> 00:04:11,600 But, and then, well, as I mentioned in the beginning, I 71 00:04:11,610 --> 00:04:15,110 wanted to be a business lawyer and I, I wanted to be the person 72 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,089 that would help my friends to have their businesses. 73 00:04:18,100 --> 00:04:22,570 And when I was going to get my degree, I, I realized that I 74 00:04:22,580 --> 00:04:27,070 didn't know really much what to do being 22 years old with, with 75 00:04:27,080 --> 00:04:30,190 a law degree. So I called my parents again, 76 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:31,910 farmers and I said, I don't know what to do. 77 00:04:31,920 --> 00:04:35,210 I think that I should pursue tax because I think that, that I'm 78 00:04:35,220 --> 00:04:38,110 really interested in what's going on in that world. 79 00:04:38,180 --> 00:04:40,610 And my parents said, OK, what's, what do you need? 80 00:04:40,620 --> 00:04:43,290 As like I need 6 extra months at school. 81 00:04:43,380 --> 00:04:45,830 And I said, OK, you can take it. Now is the time. 82 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:50,290 So I, I finish with them a major in tax law and then I can say 83 00:04:50,300 --> 00:04:53,370 that their, I discovered my, my passion. 84 00:04:53,420 --> 00:04:57,780 And so I finished law school, I started working at the province 85 00:04:57,790 --> 00:05:01,200 of Buenos Aires in the pre training zone for a while. 86 00:05:01,250 --> 00:05:05,340 Then one of my mentors knew that I was interested in tax and she 87 00:05:05,350 --> 00:05:10,400 recommended me to start working at the National Tax Court as, as 88 00:05:10,410 --> 00:05:12,860 a pro bono student because there were no positions for me. 89 00:05:12,870 --> 00:05:16,670 So I went there and I, I worked for a year trying to learn about 90 00:05:16,680 --> 00:05:19,600 the tax institutes and writing sentences. 91 00:05:19,670 --> 00:05:23,220 After my second week there and having written my first 92 00:05:23,290 --> 00:05:26,820 sentence, the judge said, I think that you are a really good 93 00:05:26,830 --> 00:05:28,500 feedback. I can't pay you. 94 00:05:28,510 --> 00:05:31,000 So he recommended me to go to a law firm. 95 00:05:31,010 --> 00:05:34,000 And at that law firm, I would do all the things that were 96 00:05:34,010 --> 00:05:37,880 unrelated to, to the, the part of the tribunal I was dealing 97 00:05:37,890 --> 00:05:41,710 with. And then at the law firm I grew 98 00:05:41,720 --> 00:05:46,530 up, then I went to a company to do, to do taxation of 99 00:05:46,540 --> 00:05:49,510 international assignments and more tax planning. 100 00:05:49,560 --> 00:05:54,070 Then I, I moved into a law firm as the head of the tax 101 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:56,950 department. I was there for two years as the 102 00:05:56,960 --> 00:05:58,750 head. And then, well, you know, 103 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:03,520 Argentinians reality is, is kind of particular, I thought that in 104 00:06:03,530 --> 00:06:06,770 the beginning that taxation would be the, one of the most 105 00:06:06,780 --> 00:06:11,420 important issues to deal when, when deciding businesses and 106 00:06:11,430 --> 00:06:13,990 deals. And by that time, Argentina had 107 00:06:14,000 --> 00:06:16,450 exchanged like foreign exchange controls. 108 00:06:16,460 --> 00:06:21,530 And I felt that my role was important, but there was much to 109 00:06:21,540 --> 00:06:24,440 say about the role of a lawyer in transactions. 110 00:06:24,450 --> 00:06:28,840 And at the same time I had lots of responsibilities and I liked 111 00:06:28,850 --> 00:06:31,520 the position. But I was offered a job at the 112 00:06:31,530 --> 00:06:35,700 Ministry of Economy and Public Finance and like, I had a 113 00:06:35,710 --> 00:06:39,460 substantial offer. I could go to work at a cabinet 114 00:06:39,470 --> 00:06:43,310 and like, I slept a couple of weeks with that idea. 115 00:06:44,000 --> 00:06:47,450 And then I, I moved to the Ministry of Economy and Public 116 00:06:47,460 --> 00:06:51,390 Finance to, to the cabinet of, of a secretary. 117 00:06:51,440 --> 00:06:55,550 And then I stayed at the ministry at the, at the legal 118 00:06:55,560 --> 00:06:59,030 and administrative Secretariat or an under secretariat. 119 00:06:59,040 --> 00:07:03,770 And then I went to the place where any like public lawyer was 120 00:07:03,780 --> 00:07:06,510 to work in Argentina, which is the Argentine legal counsel and 121 00:07:06,520 --> 00:07:10,270 Solicitor General Office. This is the lawyer that overseas 122 00:07:10,280 --> 00:07:14,630 all the, all the lawyers that defend the interests of the 123 00:07:14,640 --> 00:07:18,190 state in, in terms of institutional and economic 124 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:23,170 matters. So I worked there since 2017 up 125 00:07:23,180 --> 00:07:27,490 until January 2020. And well, then there was a 126 00:07:27,500 --> 00:07:31,990 change of government and I, I developed many different skills 127 00:07:32,000 --> 00:07:35,130 working at the government because I, I turned like, I 128 00:07:35,140 --> 00:07:39,090 started as a tax lawyer and I ended up being a public finances 129 00:07:39,100 --> 00:07:41,270 and transparency lawyer. And like when the government 130 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:44,710 changed, I was in like as an enemy, which had to me is like 131 00:07:44,720 --> 00:07:48,450 an absolute compliment because I was on the side of pavlic 132 00:07:48,520 --> 00:07:52,250 information transparency and I was implementing, implementing, 133 00:07:52,260 --> 00:07:55,110 sorry, the corruption policies. And then they said, Oh, we don't 134 00:07:55,120 --> 00:07:56,910 like you. So I was fired. 135 00:07:56,920 --> 00:08:01,350 And after that I joined a medium sized law firm that deals with 136 00:08:01,360 --> 00:08:05,070 capital markets and lots of energy transactions. 137 00:08:05,080 --> 00:08:07,510 But in the meantime, the pandemic started. 138 00:08:07,940 --> 00:08:12,940 I I had a a small baby because my son turned 2 years old when 139 00:08:12,950 --> 00:08:16,500 we were in the middle of the lockdown and I stayed at the 140 00:08:16,510 --> 00:08:20,460 firm for six months, but I decided to move to Canada. 141 00:08:20,510 --> 00:08:24,560 So long short, Long story short, that's my path into long. 142 00:08:24,570 --> 00:08:28,030 Wow, it's just fascinating to see how many things you can do 143 00:08:28,040 --> 00:08:31,330 with a law degree and also just understanding the different 144 00:08:31,340 --> 00:08:35,200 scenarios you've worked in, in, in the both private and public 145 00:08:35,210 --> 00:08:37,880 administrations. So that does give you quite an 146 00:08:37,890 --> 00:08:42,220 advantage to understand how these these different places 147 00:08:42,230 --> 00:08:43,220 really work. Right. 148 00:08:43,230 --> 00:08:45,840 That's so amazing. And, you know, I was going to 149 00:08:45,850 --> 00:08:49,180 ask you about, you know, working in public and private and how 150 00:08:49,190 --> 00:08:51,760 those roles, you know, were different, how they shaped the 151 00:08:51,770 --> 00:08:54,830 way you see legal practice. I'd love to hear a little bit 152 00:08:54,840 --> 00:08:57,890 more about that, considering that you had such an extensive 153 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:00,550 experience. And you know what, if I may ask 154 00:09:00,560 --> 00:09:03,710 you before we go into that, what are you working with right now? 155 00:09:03,760 --> 00:09:08,490 Yes, I'm, I'm, I'm currently working at a law firm, Toronto 156 00:09:08,500 --> 00:09:13,510 based law firm in mining, but we provide more corporate and 157 00:09:13,520 --> 00:09:15,770 securities advice to mining companies. 158 00:09:15,780 --> 00:09:22,570 And these mining companies are either junior or producing 159 00:09:22,580 --> 00:09:24,200 company. So it's, it's interesting 160 00:09:24,210 --> 00:09:27,830 because we can see all the, all the aspects from, from the 161 00:09:27,840 --> 00:09:30,240 exploration to the production stage. 162 00:09:30,250 --> 00:09:34,990 And basically we are the in-house, the in-house lawyers. 163 00:09:35,060 --> 00:09:39,890 So we attend to the board meetings, committee meetings. 164 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:44,430 We, we do all the disclosure work, but we also are part of 165 00:09:44,440 --> 00:09:47,940 the transactions. So we are from the very 166 00:09:47,950 --> 00:09:52,590 beginning when junior company wants to explore or like when 167 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:57,250 they even want to come out to the public and do an IPO or 168 00:09:57,260 --> 00:10:00,410 something like that. And then it's all the path that 169 00:10:00,420 --> 00:10:04,590 the companies go until they find mineral and that they can 170 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:06,670 produce. And then there are other 171 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:09,910 companies that are already producing and they have, they 172 00:10:09,920 --> 00:10:13,830 have different levels of, of issues and they have different 173 00:10:13,840 --> 00:10:18,450 legal needs. But basically this 360 approach 174 00:10:18,460 --> 00:10:22,390 on which are the clients needs and how to help them better to 175 00:10:22,400 --> 00:10:24,970 succeed at their, at their business. 176 00:10:24,980 --> 00:10:30,150 This is a fully remote firm and regular we, we try to, to take 177 00:10:30,160 --> 00:10:34,370 our clients as, as if we were part of their business. 178 00:10:34,380 --> 00:10:37,990 We know that we are part of their business and that's 179 00:10:38,060 --> 00:10:39,170 that's. Fantastic. 180 00:10:39,180 --> 00:10:41,810 And it's such a, such a really interesting work that you're 181 00:10:41,820 --> 00:10:45,140 doing right now and, and a very interesting sector especially. 182 00:10:45,190 --> 00:10:48,670 But I'd love to hear a few of your comments, if we could on, 183 00:10:48,680 --> 00:10:52,260 you know, working for public entities versus working for 184 00:10:52,310 --> 00:10:55,320 private entities as someone who's got quite a bit of 185 00:10:55,330 --> 00:10:59,100 experiencing both. I, I think that that working 186 00:10:59,310 --> 00:11:04,380 from in, in both sectors, I always say that I work in from 187 00:11:04,430 --> 00:11:10,180 both sides of the counter. So this gives you a sort of 360° 188 00:11:10,190 --> 00:11:14,160 view on how the law operates. And it's not theory is 189 00:11:14,170 --> 00:11:17,490 everything. You see how how power is 190 00:11:17,500 --> 00:11:23,520 structured and how, how decision making is, is how decision 191 00:11:23,530 --> 00:11:25,840 making works. Actually in the the public 192 00:11:25,850 --> 00:11:29,960 sector, they find that specifically at the Ministry of 193 00:11:29,970 --> 00:11:33,510 Economy and at the General Treasury attorney's office. 194 00:11:33,520 --> 00:11:37,950 What I learned the most, the most was how to approach the law 195 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:42,440 and the importance of precedent and, and which are like, how do 196 00:11:42,450 --> 00:11:47,030 you move yourself within the incentives and how do you guide 197 00:11:47,040 --> 00:11:50,590 the incentives of the citizens and other stakeholders? 198 00:11:50,600 --> 00:11:55,970 Because you use, you use the law as a tool for public policy and 199 00:11:55,980 --> 00:12:00,430 you need to have that deep sense of institutional responsibility 200 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:04,510 and you need to be thinking all the time, ultimately how one 201 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:07,870 decision can ripple across all the institutions. 202 00:12:07,880 --> 00:12:12,600 You think more, you know, systemic policy and impact 203 00:12:13,290 --> 00:12:17,060 framework is like, you don't take you don't make any decision 204 00:12:17,070 --> 00:12:19,860 in a vacuum. All those decisions need to be 205 00:12:19,910 --> 00:12:23,810 seen as a whole. Might like my specialization 206 00:12:23,820 --> 00:12:26,280 there. Then like move towards like 207 00:12:26,330 --> 00:12:28,180 budget. Where is the money? 208 00:12:28,290 --> 00:12:31,650 Because that was like first, the first question you ask yourself 209 00:12:31,660 --> 00:12:35,210 when you are a public, a public lawyer is like, do you have the 210 00:12:35,220 --> 00:12:37,670 competence to do this? And then if you have the 211 00:12:37,680 --> 00:12:40,600 competence, where's the money? That where's my, my main 212 00:12:40,610 --> 00:12:42,740 question. Sometimes I would go to, to 213 00:12:42,750 --> 00:12:45,070 meetings and they were all we need to do this. 214 00:12:45,080 --> 00:12:48,340 And this is like, I'm, I'm here because I'm the person that's 215 00:12:48,350 --> 00:12:51,660 holding the budget. And I don't see that you have 216 00:12:51,730 --> 00:12:53,850 budget to do that. It's fantastic. 217 00:12:53,920 --> 00:12:56,190 But we can't allocate more resources. 218 00:12:56,260 --> 00:12:59,490 And by the way, I studied law and economics after tax. 219 00:12:59,580 --> 00:13:03,770 So like to me it was everything fascinating and well, in the 220 00:13:03,780 --> 00:13:09,330 private sector, you, you, you are you are more focused on the 221 00:13:09,380 --> 00:13:14,030 individual client needs. You are also all the time very 222 00:13:14,040 --> 00:13:19,330 aware of the risk that every single decision entails and you 223 00:13:19,340 --> 00:13:26,330 are prone to seek a strategy in a fast-paced in a fast-paced 224 00:13:26,340 --> 00:13:28,930 environment. There's no difference between 225 00:13:28,990 --> 00:13:32,350 the executive power and the private sector because many 226 00:13:32,360 --> 00:13:35,050 people say, Oh no, we're OK. Yeah, bureaucracy sometimes is 227 00:13:35,060 --> 00:13:37,310 necessary. But when you are working at like 228 00:13:37,360 --> 00:13:40,370 secretary or ministry level, there's no bureaucracy. 229 00:13:40,380 --> 00:13:43,030 They want everything for the day before yesterday. 230 00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:47,390 And and there's, there's not such such limitation. 231 00:13:47,400 --> 00:13:50,730 The only limitation you have is the budget and the budget 232 00:13:50,740 --> 00:13:53,050 timeline. Sometimes you are the one that 233 00:13:53,060 --> 00:13:55,770 is saying, hey, we need to do this before, I don't know, 234 00:13:55,840 --> 00:13:58,870 December the 18th because the year ends, but we need to have 235 00:13:58,880 --> 00:14:01,130 the budget closed. And then you won't have any 236 00:14:01,140 --> 00:14:05,670 money until we put, until the president actually puts the, the 237 00:14:05,680 --> 00:14:08,360 next budget. Emotion like you are all the 238 00:14:08,370 --> 00:14:13,100 time running behind, running behind the wheel is there's no 239 00:14:13,110 --> 00:14:14,940 difference. There's no difference between 240 00:14:14,950 --> 00:14:17,920 like a, a private and, and, and a public law setting. 241 00:14:17,930 --> 00:14:22,940 And, and well, it's like, to me, the, the, the aspect that both 242 00:14:22,950 --> 00:14:26,840 worlds have in common is that, that you can reach those micro 243 00:14:26,850 --> 00:14:31,480 and macro perspectives. And legal advice in the end of 244 00:14:31,490 --> 00:14:33,120 the day, is not just about the rules. 245 00:14:33,130 --> 00:14:36,720 It's about understanding a lot the context, the purpose, the 246 00:14:36,730 --> 00:14:39,900 consequences. And any client, any client from 247 00:14:39,910 --> 00:14:43,320 the private or the public sector, they are going to need 248 00:14:43,330 --> 00:14:46,840 clarity, speed and strategy. And sometimes they need someone 249 00:14:46,850 --> 00:14:51,710 that speaks like with the the wisdom is, is not that we are 250 00:14:51,720 --> 00:14:54,850 more intelligent, but sometimes you need to bring common sense 251 00:14:54,860 --> 00:14:58,250 to the to the room. And I think that that's, that 252 00:14:58,260 --> 00:15:02,710 that's the difference. I don't know, perhaps in the 253 00:15:02,720 --> 00:15:05,770 practice. And I'm bringing that to Canada. 254 00:15:05,840 --> 00:15:08,650 Well, now I work with highly regulated clients. 255 00:15:08,660 --> 00:15:11,550 There's no difference. There's like they, they, they 256 00:15:11,560 --> 00:15:15,890 have corporate Securities and Exchange rules to abide by. 257 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:19,290 When you are a tax lawyer, you have also like a really complex 258 00:15:19,300 --> 00:15:22,090 background that goes from the constitution, like different 259 00:15:22,100 --> 00:15:25,790 procedures, criminal law, contractual or everything gets 260 00:15:25,800 --> 00:15:28,050 into together. And this is. 261 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:32,090 This is also that both practices have in common is you need to 262 00:15:32,100 --> 00:15:35,820 make more sense about those frameworks and and navigate 263 00:15:35,830 --> 00:15:38,350 things that are that seem complex, but you need to 264 00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,210 understand the rules. That's amazing. 265 00:15:40,220 --> 00:15:42,380 That's so amazing. I really like what you said, you 266 00:15:42,390 --> 00:15:47,710 know, at at some raise ending some specific scenarios, there's 267 00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:49,990 not that much of a difference as you'd think. 268 00:15:50,040 --> 00:15:54,730 That's amazing and and something that I noticed that we haven't 269 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:56,930 touched on, but that I know you did. 270 00:15:57,000 --> 00:16:00,510 You also taught a couple of classes, a couple of courses in 271 00:16:00,520 --> 00:16:03,830 university, right, for nearly a decade, if I'm correct. 272 00:16:03,920 --> 00:16:06,760 And I'd love to hear a little more about, you know, how was 273 00:16:06,770 --> 00:16:09,190 that teaching and keeping it practice? 274 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:13,290 Is that common in Argentina for experienced lawyers should be 275 00:16:13,340 --> 00:16:16,110 teaching in university at the same time as they practice. 276 00:16:16,120 --> 00:16:19,610 And I'd love to hear a little more about, you know, all the 277 00:16:19,620 --> 00:16:23,510 mentoring and all of that that goes into, you know, basically 278 00:16:23,580 --> 00:16:26,230 raising the next generations of lawyers in your country. 279 00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:28,950 Well, thank you. There's, there's and thank you 280 00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:32,070 for that, that question because no one really asks about the 281 00:16:32,080 --> 00:16:35,820 teaching aspects. And I found that teaching was, 282 00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,770 was a privilege. But I need to say something 283 00:16:38,780 --> 00:16:41,820 before I went to the public university in Argentina, you 284 00:16:41,830 --> 00:16:44,700 have public schools and you go to public university. 285 00:16:44,710 --> 00:16:49,650 If you can, there's also the private option like after, like 286 00:16:49,660 --> 00:16:53,350 my life in the UVA University of Buenos Aires, I also went to, 287 00:16:53,360 --> 00:16:57,690 to, to private university. And when you go to public 288 00:16:57,700 --> 00:17:02,590 university, you know that your law degree is being paid by 289 00:17:02,600 --> 00:17:05,589 taxpayers money. And I was a tax lawyer. 290 00:17:05,660 --> 00:17:09,660 I, I need to repeat that. And I also as a service 291 00:17:09,670 --> 00:17:16,210 provider, we are not only privileged because we have this, 292 00:17:16,220 --> 00:17:19,710 this profession that ultimately you are a guardian of your 293 00:17:19,720 --> 00:17:24,230 constitution and you also have to give back a little bit of 294 00:17:24,280 --> 00:17:26,849 what you got through that institution. 295 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:32,310 And we have that call when we go to the university and we learn 296 00:17:32,320 --> 00:17:36,570 from all those professors that perhaps like, it's a completely 297 00:17:36,620 --> 00:17:40,910 ignoram and pro bono career. You do it because you love it. 298 00:17:40,990 --> 00:17:45,190 No one pays you, you need to pay almost to go to the university 299 00:17:45,200 --> 00:17:49,590 and teach. And, and it's, it's part, it's, 300 00:17:49,600 --> 00:17:53,290 it's a privilege and, and, and it's something that that also 301 00:17:53,340 --> 00:17:57,780 makes you keep yourself sharp because if you are, you are part 302 00:17:57,790 --> 00:18:00,440 of the practice. And if you lose the connection 303 00:18:00,450 --> 00:18:06,470 with students or what is being talked around the school is, is 304 00:18:06,480 --> 00:18:10,460 something that I don't know, you can always find your north as 305 00:18:11,300 --> 00:18:14,850 it's like a compass. And teaching also forces you to 306 00:18:14,860 --> 00:18:18,770 revisit those core values, the principles to stay current. 307 00:18:18,780 --> 00:18:22,350 Because sometimes I don't know, the things that I would teach at 308 00:18:22,360 --> 00:18:26,930 at law school were in the back of my mind when I was working, 309 00:18:26,940 --> 00:18:29,770 but I did not have the opportunity to explain all the 310 00:18:29,780 --> 00:18:33,450 constitutional tax principles to the public officers I was I was 311 00:18:33,460 --> 00:18:34,970 working for. They would not care. 312 00:18:34,980 --> 00:18:38,630 And it's also something that helps you break down complex 313 00:18:38,640 --> 00:18:43,250 ideas into something accessible. It's also a way to make some, 314 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:47,350 some people motivated and to discover other things because it 315 00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:49,620 happened to me. As I mentioned, I didn't know 316 00:18:49,630 --> 00:18:52,760 what to do when I realized that I was going to turn 22 years old 317 00:18:52,770 --> 00:18:54,300 and I was going to have a low degree. 318 00:18:54,390 --> 00:18:59,280 And then I looked into the university and I, I really like, 319 00:18:59,330 --> 00:19:03,340 or that's something that I used to enjoy was making the, the 320 00:19:03,350 --> 00:19:07,300 students connect the dots, thinking outside, outside the 321 00:19:07,310 --> 00:19:11,360 box and, and putting them in a way that they could think about 322 00:19:11,430 --> 00:19:15,280 the public institutions, no matter which type of law would 323 00:19:15,290 --> 00:19:18,920 they, would they, they, they practice And well, I'm going to 324 00:19:18,930 --> 00:19:22,960 steal directly from Jorge Luis Borquez, the best author of the 325 00:19:22,970 --> 00:19:26,360 Argentinian literature that he used to say that he would learn 326 00:19:26,370 --> 00:19:29,960 all the time from his students. He, like, he, he said that he 327 00:19:29,970 --> 00:19:33,710 had a sort of impostor syndrome when he would teach because you 328 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,930 learn more from your students than than what you can learn 329 00:19:36,940 --> 00:19:38,890 from yourself when, when studying. 330 00:19:38,900 --> 00:19:43,700 And it also shaped the way I, I communicated and how I related 331 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,410 to other professionals and other people in professional settings. 332 00:19:47,420 --> 00:19:51,670 Because as a lawyer, you are not always working with lawyers. 333 00:19:51,680 --> 00:19:55,450 You work with law clerks, you have the receptionists, you have 334 00:19:55,500 --> 00:19:58,670 like all the people that's helping you in every setting you 335 00:19:58,680 --> 00:20:01,750 walk. And sometimes teaching helps you 336 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,310 to break down those, those concepts to make the, the, the 337 00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:09,690 tasks or or or or or making things or, yes, getting things 338 00:20:09,700 --> 00:20:11,950 done simply. So that's amazing. 339 00:20:11,960 --> 00:20:14,280 That's amazing. And I'm just thinking here, you 340 00:20:14,290 --> 00:20:17,540 know, juggling that career that you had pitching and all of that 341 00:20:17,550 --> 00:20:22,000 together and, and now having this role that you have within 342 00:20:22,010 --> 00:20:24,860 the mining industry, within securities law. 343 00:20:24,910 --> 00:20:28,810 So it's really a big tapestry of legal concepts and all the 344 00:20:28,820 --> 00:20:31,190 different areas of law that you got the chance to touch. 345 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,960 And I'm sure more and more you see that there are very, very 346 00:20:34,010 --> 00:20:36,500 intertwined. And if I may ask you then 347 00:20:36,510 --> 00:20:39,860 regarding your, your current involvement with mining laws and 348 00:20:39,870 --> 00:20:42,800 securities, what are some of the things that you find most 349 00:20:42,810 --> 00:20:44,880 rewarding about working in this space? 350 00:20:44,890 --> 00:20:47,760 You mentioned quickly that, you know, you make it for your 351 00:20:47,770 --> 00:20:50,540 clients so that they can feel that you're a part of the 352 00:20:50,550 --> 00:20:52,860 company, that's that you're a part of the business. 353 00:20:52,930 --> 00:20:55,000 But I'd love to hear a little more about that. 354 00:20:55,170 --> 00:20:59,150 It's, I know it's different. I used to be the, the lawyer 355 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,670 that my clients would, would call because I was always on 356 00:21:02,680 --> 00:21:04,510 advising. It's like, guys, please don't 357 00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,620 make decisions. And here my, my role is, is 358 00:21:07,630 --> 00:21:11,790 completely different because I need to, I also need to, to say 359 00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:17,170 as like I was at a super senior stage and then when I moved to 360 00:21:17,180 --> 00:21:21,330 Canada, I, I started as anyone starts, it's like, I started 361 00:21:21,340 --> 00:21:23,670 articling like not article, not the LP. 362 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,970 I went to the LP and I joined the firm and it's, it's 363 00:21:26,980 --> 00:21:31,190 something that goes step by step and I like the environment 364 00:21:31,200 --> 00:21:36,750 because I know that the mining companies want to drill is like, 365 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:38,920 what do they want? They want to drill, they want to 366 00:21:38,930 --> 00:21:41,260 produce. And to do that, they need to get 367 00:21:41,270 --> 00:21:45,660 money and we need to make them like collect that mining that 368 00:21:45,670 --> 00:21:47,800 money, sorry, through, through financings. 369 00:21:47,810 --> 00:21:51,060 And it's like, OK, there's, there's an efficiency rule 370 00:21:51,070 --> 00:21:56,020 behind they, they need to, they need to comply with lots of 371 00:21:56,030 --> 00:21:59,520 disclosure and they had, they need to have smooth 372 00:21:59,570 --> 00:22:02,020 transactions. And this is, I think that this 373 00:22:02,030 --> 00:22:05,140 is the, the biggest learning that I'm having in Canada 374 00:22:05,150 --> 00:22:08,330 because I always wanted to work with capital markets. 375 00:22:08,340 --> 00:22:11,360 But unfortunately in Argentina, capital markets are really 376 00:22:11,370 --> 00:22:13,720 underdeveloped. And like during my last six 377 00:22:13,730 --> 00:22:17,040 months in my country, I could actually work, but only from the 378 00:22:17,050 --> 00:22:19,640 tax perspective. So here I'm kind of amazed 379 00:22:19,650 --> 00:22:22,740 looking had everything and which are the things that I can bring 380 00:22:22,750 --> 00:22:26,000 to the table and which are the things that I can I can learn. 381 00:22:26,010 --> 00:22:30,360 It's like I, I I'm considering I consider myself a. 382 00:22:30,370 --> 00:22:32,800 Learner that's amazing. And, and taking that into 383 00:22:32,810 --> 00:22:37,100 consideration, you've, you know, you've gone through the 384 00:22:37,110 --> 00:22:39,380 licensing process. You mentioned quickly that you 385 00:22:39,390 --> 00:22:43,210 did the LP went, went through your articles, did your bar exam 386 00:22:43,220 --> 00:22:45,540 and all of that. And I'd love to hear a little 387 00:22:45,550 --> 00:22:48,250 more about this experience here in Canada. 388 00:22:48,300 --> 00:22:51,070 I saw in your profile you did instead of a little more about 389 00:22:51,080 --> 00:22:53,590 mining law, you said it about ESG. 390 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,590 So you've done, you know, quite a while around that, I would say 391 00:22:57,600 --> 00:23:02,730 in the sense in this, in this realm as well of legal education 392 00:23:02,740 --> 00:23:06,030 initiatives and considering your, your background or your 393 00:23:06,040 --> 00:23:08,510 thought in the past. Can you tell me a little more 394 00:23:08,520 --> 00:23:11,260 about, you know, your involvement with, with lawyers 395 00:23:11,270 --> 00:23:15,010 with licensing candidates? I know you're a mentor to many 396 00:23:15,020 --> 00:23:17,570 as well. Well, I think that that was, 397 00:23:17,960 --> 00:23:23,760 should start with the fact that when I joined Osgood, I, I, I 398 00:23:23,770 --> 00:23:26,780 moved to Canada without really knowing what to do. 399 00:23:26,790 --> 00:23:29,880 When I left Argentina, it was, it was like the move was a 400 00:23:29,890 --> 00:23:33,720 personal, it was a professional and also an emotional move 401 00:23:33,760 --> 00:23:36,380 because there were things that were not working for me in my 402 00:23:36,390 --> 00:23:39,080 country and was COVID, as I mentioned. 403 00:23:39,150 --> 00:23:43,700 And, and at some point I was looking for a new chapter or a 404 00:23:43,710 --> 00:23:47,860 new, a new place to grow, to raise my son and also challenge 405 00:23:47,870 --> 00:23:50,760 myself. And when I was there trying to 406 00:23:50,770 --> 00:23:54,100 figure out what to do, the first thing that happened to me is 407 00:23:54,110 --> 00:23:57,620 that there were some colleagues that reached me out and they 408 00:23:57,630 --> 00:23:59,260 said, Hey, I can help you with this. 409 00:23:59,270 --> 00:24:02,650 I can help you with that. And it was like before I started 410 00:24:02,660 --> 00:24:05,530 connecting with people, they already connected with me and 411 00:24:05,540 --> 00:24:08,990 they were willing to help. And that willingness to help is 412 00:24:09,000 --> 00:24:11,710 like in the case of university, it's, it's, it's a matter of 413 00:24:11,720 --> 00:24:14,490 service. And I, I started doing exactly 414 00:24:14,500 --> 00:24:18,010 the same and organically with, with other people that were, 415 00:24:18,020 --> 00:24:21,290 were going through the same path, like helping them. 416 00:24:21,340 --> 00:24:24,210 I don't know when you settle in Canada, which are the things 417 00:24:24,220 --> 00:24:27,110 that you need to ring, which are the things that you need to do. 418 00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:30,790 Like all the licensing process itself is quite a complicated 419 00:24:30,800 --> 00:24:32,650 process. If you don't know the rules, you 420 00:24:32,660 --> 00:24:37,490 need to plan ahead. Everything I, I, I, I can't say 421 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,550 that I found myself like lost, but sometimes there are so many 422 00:24:41,560 --> 00:24:44,650 things that you need to tie up aside from the fact that you are 423 00:24:44,660 --> 00:24:48,970 in a new country that is like, I speak way slower than in 424 00:24:48,980 --> 00:24:51,290 Spanish. Sometimes I don't know which 425 00:24:51,300 --> 00:24:54,010 language I'm speaking. I don't know if any 426 00:24:54,020 --> 00:24:56,590 internationally trained lawyer has the same issue. 427 00:24:56,600 --> 00:24:59,290 But sometimes I want to say a word and I don't even remember 428 00:24:59,300 --> 00:25:02,910 the word I want to say in any of the two languages I speak. 429 00:25:02,920 --> 00:25:07,090 So I, I started doing that more, more naturally, like trying to 430 00:25:07,100 --> 00:25:10,150 connect with people based on their, on their needs and as 431 00:25:10,160 --> 00:25:13,650 part of a service or an act of service to people that were, 432 00:25:13,660 --> 00:25:17,590 were actually needing that. And well, during the licensing 433 00:25:17,600 --> 00:25:21,870 process, like I'm also a mom, I was also like doing the dishes, 434 00:25:21,930 --> 00:25:25,260 planning meals, taking the kid to sending the, the kid to 435 00:25:25,270 --> 00:25:28,980 school, like planning camps and all those things while all this, 436 00:25:29,530 --> 00:25:31,500 like all the process was going on. 437 00:25:31,510 --> 00:25:34,280 So I started connecting with people that had more or less the 438 00:25:34,290 --> 00:25:37,870 same, the same needs. And that was kind of natural. 439 00:25:37,930 --> 00:25:45,400 And then what happened is I, I had to, to write the exams and I 440 00:25:45,410 --> 00:25:49,150 failed my first exam. I failed barristers was like, 441 00:25:49,160 --> 00:25:52,940 and when I was at the at the exam, I realized that oh, I'm 442 00:25:52,950 --> 00:25:57,570 failing was like, I knew that I I then when I saw these 443 00:25:57,580 --> 00:26:01,110 statistics, it was not so bad, but it's like to me it was 444 00:26:01,120 --> 00:26:05,450 something brutal because how am I going to fail an exam? 445 00:26:05,500 --> 00:26:08,990 I have, I don't know how many thousand hours of university 446 00:26:09,000 --> 00:26:12,030 classes. And this is me admitting that 447 00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,590 I'm failing. And so I started connecting with 448 00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:17,950 my peers at the LP and with other people that would need 449 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,090 help. I started getting together with 450 00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:25,110 peers and ultimately I also like it was the shot to my ego was 451 00:26:25,120 --> 00:26:29,130 like, I'm not going to I, I'm not going to minimize that 452 00:26:29,140 --> 00:26:36,170 because and I, I, I felt bad, but still I did not have really 453 00:26:36,180 --> 00:26:40,010 much time because I have, I had to write the, the solicitors 454 00:26:40,060 --> 00:26:47,840 exam within 13 days. So in 13 days I changed the, I 455 00:26:47,850 --> 00:26:50,410 changed the framework. I realized which were the things 456 00:26:50,420 --> 00:26:53,330 that I, I was wrong. I was more familiar with the 457 00:26:53,340 --> 00:26:57,480 solicitors aspect because I was already working as a corporate 458 00:26:57,490 --> 00:26:59,200 lawyer. I used to be a tax lawyer in 459 00:26:59,210 --> 00:27:00,870 Argentina. There were many transferable 460 00:27:00,880 --> 00:27:02,920 skills, but still I wanted to pass it. 461 00:27:02,990 --> 00:27:06,960 And after, after that, when I signed up for the new exam, I 462 00:27:06,970 --> 00:27:11,720 joined, I joined Piper Riley Thompson in the Ontario parks at 463 00:27:11,730 --> 00:27:15,320 the, the, the Ontario Brixham coach and the bar exam bootcamp. 464 00:27:15,330 --> 00:27:20,860 And I, I, I knew how to do it, but I really realized that 465 00:27:20,870 --> 00:27:23,390 sometimes I needed to feel vulnerable. 466 00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:26,780 That was like, that was the biggest acknowledgement in the 467 00:27:26,790 --> 00:27:28,750 boot camps. I was all the time asking 468 00:27:28,760 --> 00:27:30,950 questions and trying to help others. 469 00:27:31,000 --> 00:27:34,690 So after I passed the exam, Piper called me and she's like, 470 00:27:34,700 --> 00:27:39,070 I need to revamp this, this bar bar exam boot camp because I, I 471 00:27:39,080 --> 00:27:42,090 wrote the exam like 3 or 4 years ago and it's like you have a 472 00:27:42,100 --> 00:27:46,110 different perspective. So I joined her to rethink it a 473 00:27:46,120 --> 00:27:48,510 little bit from, from the new perspectives. 474 00:27:48,520 --> 00:27:52,570 And I also kept on talking with other colleagues and trying to 475 00:27:52,580 --> 00:27:58,050 help because like, I know that that can, the, the Canadian lost 476 00:27:58,060 --> 00:28:01,910 student, the one that comes out from the university has only 477 00:28:01,920 --> 00:28:05,190 big, like only one big issue, all the debt. 478 00:28:05,240 --> 00:28:08,980 They are like they need to, they need to pay the, the school debt 479 00:28:09,140 --> 00:28:14,240 and they, they have that Gordon, but they are young and they have 480 00:28:14,250 --> 00:28:17,360 support. But I realized that as an 481 00:28:17,370 --> 00:28:21,790 internationally trained lawyer, I'm I, I also, I also went 482 00:28:21,800 --> 00:28:26,400 through a grievance period. It was like, that's a part of 483 00:28:26,410 --> 00:28:29,800 our journey that no one really talks about, like the 484 00:28:29,810 --> 00:28:33,180 immigration grievance because you decide to move to another 485 00:28:33,190 --> 00:28:37,300 country to get a new challenge to do whatever, but you can't 486 00:28:37,350 --> 00:28:40,860 leave your country behind. Whereas the people that live at 487 00:28:40,870 --> 00:28:43,580 your country, your former colleagues, they think, no, you 488 00:28:43,590 --> 00:28:46,540 left us because you have a better life standard. 489 00:28:46,550 --> 00:28:50,220 And it's not the same because you, you came here for 490 00:28:50,230 --> 00:28:54,720 something, but it's not the same building that the same ties, the 491 00:28:54,730 --> 00:28:58,230 affections, the friendships. And I found myself in that 492 00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,090 situation situation. And I realized the only way I'm 493 00:29:01,100 --> 00:29:06,590 all I'm going to succeed at, at it's not at this profession is 494 00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:09,170 that as a human being is connecting with other people 495 00:29:09,180 --> 00:29:12,430 that have the same needs. And like, on one hand, I started 496 00:29:12,440 --> 00:29:16,550 helping Piper at the Ontario bar exam coach, but I also started 497 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,970 looking for help from people that went through the same path 498 00:29:19,980 --> 00:29:22,260 that could be, could advise me better. 499 00:29:22,560 --> 00:29:27,580 And I also started using the services of the LSO, the MAP, 500 00:29:27,640 --> 00:29:31,190 asking for counseling. And actually, I will be joining 501 00:29:31,200 --> 00:29:34,590 the, the, the peer support program because I think that 502 00:29:34,600 --> 00:29:39,200 it's important that I can give something back because that form 503 00:29:39,210 --> 00:29:43,180 part, although it forms part of like our licensee fees, I know 504 00:29:43,190 --> 00:29:46,200 that there are others like facing the same issues. 505 00:29:46,210 --> 00:29:50,380 And if I can't help anyone navigate them and offer like 506 00:29:50,390 --> 00:29:54,970 some type of solace, I, I will be happy as I don't know it's, 507 00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:59,310 it goes, it goes beyond the the legal profession. 508 00:29:59,320 --> 00:30:01,890 No, that's amazing. I'm glad you touched on on so 509 00:30:01,900 --> 00:30:04,030 many interesting points, you know, about the profession, the 510 00:30:04,040 --> 00:30:06,820 licensing process, immigration processes. 511 00:30:06,830 --> 00:30:08,980 And that's true. Really, I think we don't we 512 00:30:08,990 --> 00:30:12,610 don't yet talk enough about all of these different aspects that 513 00:30:12,620 --> 00:30:15,570 that make us human right and that make us here living this 514 00:30:15,580 --> 00:30:17,300 experience. That's amazing. 515 00:30:17,310 --> 00:30:19,210 Thank you so much for sharing those thoughts. 516 00:30:19,220 --> 00:30:23,040 I actually had the opportunity to have a podcast with Piper in 517 00:30:23,050 --> 00:30:26,250 the past, so I'll make sure to put it in the show notes here. 518 00:30:26,260 --> 00:30:28,930 So those that are listening and that once you hear a little more 519 00:30:28,940 --> 00:30:33,640 about the Ontario bar exam, get the chance to hear that from her 520 00:30:33,650 --> 00:30:37,790 too, because I think she brings also lots of interesting advice 521 00:30:37,800 --> 00:30:41,550 and interesting insights. Mercedes, to wrap up today's 522 00:30:41,560 --> 00:30:45,220 episode here. And I might catch you a little 523 00:30:45,230 --> 00:30:49,240 bit off guard here, but I'm I'm sure you'll be able to to help 524 00:30:49,250 --> 00:30:51,580 me with this. I'm thinking if you were to give 525 00:30:51,590 --> 00:30:54,940 one piece of advice to people who are listening to the podcast 526 00:30:54,950 --> 00:30:57,700 today and they're just, you know, beginning their licensing 527 00:30:57,710 --> 00:31:00,040 process, what kind of advice would you give then? 528 00:31:00,050 --> 00:31:05,440 What would you tell them? I would ask them to ask for help 529 00:31:05,490 --> 00:31:08,180 for sure. There's there's like what they 530 00:31:08,190 --> 00:31:10,090 find. This is amazing. 531 00:31:10,100 --> 00:31:14,340 There's a lot of talent out there and there's a lot of 532 00:31:14,350 --> 00:31:16,920 people willing to help. There's something that as 533 00:31:16,930 --> 00:31:19,680 lawyers, we love. We love talking about ourselves 534 00:31:19,770 --> 00:31:26,270 and, and don't get me wrong, we, we can get help. 535 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,650 There are, there are means. I, I wish that I could be even 536 00:31:29,660 --> 00:31:35,350 more helpful for one to ones. But get help, know the rules, be 537 00:31:35,360 --> 00:31:39,290 nice to yourself because there's one part that no one talks 538 00:31:39,300 --> 00:31:41,630 about. It's like I screwed up my 539 00:31:41,640 --> 00:31:43,870 sleeping patterns when I moved to Canada. 540 00:31:43,940 --> 00:31:46,970 At some point, I was sleeping poorly, I was eating poorly, I 541 00:31:46,980 --> 00:31:49,420 was distressed. And sometimes you need to treat 542 00:31:49,430 --> 00:31:51,410 yourself well. And that's something that I 543 00:31:51,420 --> 00:31:54,450 learned more from Piper. Like it took me awhile to 544 00:31:54,460 --> 00:31:57,610 realize that sometimes. Well, I, I don't need to feel 545 00:31:57,620 --> 00:32:01,270 everything as a shame if I'm not spending, I don't know, half an 546 00:32:01,280 --> 00:32:04,260 hour studying or half an hour doing. 547 00:32:04,310 --> 00:32:07,240 I don't know by that time, practice questions. 548 00:32:07,290 --> 00:32:11,540 But in the margin, like whatever, whatever it happens in 549 00:32:11,550 --> 00:32:15,280 your life is going to affect the way you perform. 550 00:32:15,330 --> 00:32:18,320 So you need to be happy. It's like you and and 551 00:32:18,330 --> 00:32:22,500 unhappiness is like it's the small thing and you need to give 552 00:32:22,550 --> 00:32:24,530 give yourself grace. Amazing. 553 00:32:24,540 --> 00:32:27,300 Thank you so much. And I'm sure our listeners, our 554 00:32:27,310 --> 00:32:29,890 listeners here will appreciate these advice as well. 555 00:32:29,950 --> 00:32:32,420 So thank you so much for joining us today. 556 00:32:32,610 --> 00:32:35,160 Thank you. Everybody who who's listening to 557 00:32:35,170 --> 00:32:38,480 this episode as well and we'll see you on the next episode. 558 00:32:38,490 --> 00:32:41,090 Check out the show notes where I'll put you know, the bioform 559 00:32:41,100 --> 00:32:45,880 Mercedes as well as the link for Pipers episode and we'll see you 560 00:32:45,890 --> 00:32:47,520 on the next. Take care everyone.