1 00:00:12,870 --> 00:00:14,820 Welcome to studying law around the world. 2 00:00:15,010 --> 00:00:17,860 I'm Claudio Claus. In each episode, I talk with 3 00:00:17,870 --> 00:00:20,840 lawyers, law students, and professors from different parts 4 00:00:20,850 --> 00:00:24,740 of the world to talk about legal education, careers, and what the 5 00:00:24,750 --> 00:00:26,420 profession looks like. In real life. 6 00:00:26,430 --> 00:00:29,470 We talk about the hard parts, the surprises, and the decisions 7 00:00:29,480 --> 00:00:32,259 that shaped their paths. Whether you're planning to study 8 00:00:32,270 --> 00:00:35,520 abroad, thinking about working in another legal system, or just 9 00:00:35,530 --> 00:00:39,640 curious about how law works around the world, this podcast 10 00:00:39,650 --> 00:00:44,360 is for you. So many of the guests on this 11 00:00:44,370 --> 00:00:47,660 podcast have talked about how important it is to have strong 12 00:00:47,670 --> 00:00:51,290 writing skills as a lawyer. It's true, written communication 13 00:00:51,350 --> 00:00:55,180 is essential in this profession, but it can also be one of the 14 00:00:55,190 --> 00:00:58,510 trickiest skills to master. If you find your writing feels a 15 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:01,430 bit clunky, or you're getting a lot of edits on your work, or 16 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:03,970 perhaps you're breaking into an English speaking jurisdiction 17 00:01:03,980 --> 00:01:07,290 for the first time, Grammatica International can help. 18 00:01:07,520 --> 00:01:10,370 I'm Rebecca Lockwood, the lawyer, mediator and educator 19 00:01:10,380 --> 00:01:13,590 behind Grammatica, and we help lawyers and law students to 20 00:01:13,600 --> 00:01:16,780 write more sharply, speak more clearly, and advance their 21 00:01:16,790 --> 00:01:19,730 careers with group training and one-on-one skills coaching 22 00:01:19,780 --> 00:01:21,790 designed just for legal professionals. 23 00:01:22,180 --> 00:01:24,880 I have worked with so many lawyers like you who are 24 00:01:24,890 --> 00:01:28,470 exceptionally smart, qualified and capable, but need a bit of 25 00:01:28,480 --> 00:01:31,110 guidance to stand out in a competitive legal market. 26 00:01:31,660 --> 00:01:33,990 And I get it myself, having lived and worked in five 27 00:01:34,000 --> 00:01:37,250 countries during my 17 years in law and education. 28 00:01:37,760 --> 00:01:39,910 Whether you're looking to sharpen your writing skills 29 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:43,380 generally, refresh your CV, or draft an application for a law 30 00:01:43,390 --> 00:01:48,160 program, Grammatica can help. Visit Gramatica Co to learn 31 00:01:48,170 --> 00:01:56,450 more. Today, I have the opportunity to 32 00:01:56,460 --> 00:02:00,830 be hosting Lotus Menezes. She has an incredible story. 33 00:02:00,840 --> 00:02:07,230 She's an Osgood LM graduate, and she has built a wonderful career 34 00:02:07,470 --> 00:02:11,390 across multiple continents, and I'm so excited to talk with her 35 00:02:11,400 --> 00:02:12,930 today. Thank you so much for joining us 36 00:02:12,940 --> 00:02:16,620 today, Lotus. Action and I really appreciate 37 00:02:16,710 --> 00:02:20,840 being here and the time you're taking through to fund with me 38 00:02:20,850 --> 00:02:22,610 today. Well, I appreciate you making 39 00:02:22,620 --> 00:02:26,340 the time to being here and to start us off today, I'd love for 40 00:02:26,350 --> 00:02:29,900 you to introduce yourself, share a little bit about your journey 41 00:02:29,950 --> 00:02:33,940 with our audience today. OK, so I'm from Contenir 42 00:02:33,950 --> 00:02:37,890 originally I went to boarding school at the age of 9 to Kenya 43 00:02:38,090 --> 00:02:40,840 and then I went to law school in South Africa. 44 00:02:40,910 --> 00:02:43,880 Was I inspired to get into all from the outset? 45 00:02:44,030 --> 00:02:47,680 The honest answer is no. I was initially interested in 46 00:02:47,730 --> 00:02:52,020 the RNOR fine art literature and history and growing up in the 47 00:02:52,030 --> 00:02:56,820 80s and 90s in Tanzania that the art scene was not as developed 48 00:02:56,830 --> 00:02:59,240 as it is starting to get developed right now. 49 00:02:59,290 --> 00:03:04,420 So Korea in that area was not really something that was viable 50 00:03:04,430 --> 00:03:07,840 at the time. So I, I've got to my parents who 51 00:03:07,850 --> 00:03:11,820 looked back at my interests and we report of law because of, you 52 00:03:11,830 --> 00:03:13,580 know, the literature and history component. 53 00:03:13,910 --> 00:03:16,620 Then you know, that basically what I did. 54 00:03:16,630 --> 00:03:20,160 And then I went to law school in South Africa, mainly because it 55 00:03:20,170 --> 00:03:22,750 was jurisdictional. There were very good law schools 56 00:03:22,760 --> 00:03:25,340 in South Africa. I went to an English boarding 57 00:03:25,350 --> 00:03:29,640 school in Kenya, but and a lot of my student, all peers were 58 00:03:29,650 --> 00:03:32,360 going to England, which was the natural progression. 59 00:03:32,410 --> 00:03:35,900 I couldn't do that though. We opted for South Africa and 60 00:03:35,910 --> 00:03:39,200 literally went through a textbook of all the university. 61 00:03:39,310 --> 00:03:42,910 And you know, back then we were looking at textbooks not and 62 00:03:42,920 --> 00:03:45,050 not, you know, work sites and things like that. 63 00:03:45,120 --> 00:03:49,010 And so I applied to a few and the one that accepted me with 64 00:03:49,020 --> 00:03:52,510 the humidity and at the time they were part of the thing, an 65 00:03:52,520 --> 00:03:55,910 LLB program that was four years. And because I had done my A 66 00:03:55,920 --> 00:03:59,170 level, I was able to get into it without doing an undergraduate 67 00:03:59,180 --> 00:04:01,470 degree. And so that's where we are now. 68 00:04:01,530 --> 00:04:04,650 I got into law in that. Way fantastic. 69 00:04:04,660 --> 00:04:07,490 That's incredible. And I'm I'm so glad you got the 70 00:04:07,500 --> 00:04:09,120 chance to spend some time in Cape Town. 71 00:04:09,130 --> 00:04:11,720 What a beautiful city. Yeah, you've spent some time 72 00:04:11,730 --> 00:04:13,510 there too. And really, it is the Mother 73 00:04:13,520 --> 00:04:15,730 City. It's a city that stays in your 74 00:04:15,740 --> 00:04:20,870 heart and had so much to offer. It was actually my first 75 00:04:20,880 --> 00:04:24,640 international experience. I got to go to summer school 76 00:04:24,650 --> 00:04:27,310 there and it was definitely, definitely one of the 77 00:04:27,320 --> 00:04:30,310 highlights. I remember it very, very kindly 78 00:04:30,560 --> 00:04:33,030 when I think about it. And I'm so glad we're connected 79 00:04:33,040 --> 00:04:36,210 that way as well. But I'd love to hear more on, 80 00:04:36,220 --> 00:04:40,080 you know, after relocating a few different times and restarting 81 00:04:40,090 --> 00:04:43,750 your career in in some sort of way, I'd love to hear what 82 00:04:43,810 --> 00:04:46,690 helped you just stay focused and motivated through these 83 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:49,710 transitions. Yeah, so I mean, I've thought of 84 00:04:49,720 --> 00:04:53,490 moving around when I was 9. So for me, transition was the 85 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:56,110 constant and the norm rather than the exception. 86 00:04:56,120 --> 00:04:58,700 You know, going to boarding school, age of nine and coming 87 00:04:58,710 --> 00:05:01,650 back every three months. I was always in an in between 88 00:05:01,660 --> 00:05:05,800 world change and moving around with constant what helped me 89 00:05:05,810 --> 00:05:10,540 stay motivated with staying connected to my network in 90 00:05:10,550 --> 00:05:15,520 school and at home and bridging Nightbot gap and providing a 91 00:05:15,530 --> 00:05:19,170 sort of perspective for myself. You know, when I was to just 92 00:05:19,180 --> 00:05:22,540 give you a basic example, when I was in boarding school, I would, 93 00:05:22,550 --> 00:05:25,930 you know, write letters about how we were recognized through, 94 00:05:26,490 --> 00:05:29,760 you know, my friend at home. And then when I was at home, I 95 00:05:29,770 --> 00:05:32,540 wiggle for keeping in touch with my boarding school friend. 96 00:05:32,670 --> 00:05:34,830 And so I did that and all the time, you know, through 97 00:05:34,840 --> 00:05:38,720 university it was payphones and then, you know, now we have 98 00:05:38,730 --> 00:05:41,240 things like what's up and LinkedIn and so we can really 99 00:05:41,250 --> 00:05:43,380 stay connected. So that's what they helped me 100 00:05:43,390 --> 00:05:47,170 stay grounded, being connected to my communities, then to my 101 00:05:47,220 --> 00:05:50,110 ecosystem all around in different jurisdictions. 102 00:05:50,180 --> 00:05:53,030 That's outstanding and talking about specifically about the 103 00:05:53,040 --> 00:05:56,550 process of becoming a lawyer in Canada where there are few, you 104 00:05:56,560 --> 00:06:00,950 know, unexpected challenges or even unexpected supports that 105 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,850 helped you to shape this experience here. 106 00:06:05,150 --> 00:06:08,780 With the fact that I thought of my process right at the start of 107 00:06:08,790 --> 00:06:11,730 COVID and at the risk of, you know, talking about the Covic 108 00:06:11,740 --> 00:06:16,700 endemic, it really it changed the way that I was focused on my 109 00:06:16,750 --> 00:06:20,600 qualification program process. If we go back a little bit, when 110 00:06:20,610 --> 00:06:24,520 I started, there was various options to requalify if you had 111 00:06:24,530 --> 00:06:26,180 a law degree in a different country. 112 00:06:26,400 --> 00:06:30,000 So you can either do the MPA but should still relevant today or 113 00:06:30,010 --> 00:06:31,510 you could do it in the form of a mark. 114 00:06:31,770 --> 00:06:35,480 Because I was moving around a lot and I picked the time off to 115 00:06:35,490 --> 00:06:39,180 be a mother and you know, focus on family life. 116 00:06:39,190 --> 00:06:43,320 I decided when I was back in in Canada to go back into a 117 00:06:43,330 --> 00:06:48,440 university session and requalify do my NCAA requirements, but 118 00:06:48,450 --> 00:06:51,700 also add other interests into those courses. 119 00:06:51,710 --> 00:06:56,790 So I took elected like copyright law, which hopefully was a pin 120 00:06:56,800 --> 00:07:01,660 to, you know, further my interest in the art and ridging 121 00:07:01,670 --> 00:07:05,080 off and all together. So there were various options 122 00:07:05,150 --> 00:07:10,800 and CA you know, you see University of Toronto and Osgood 123 00:07:10,810 --> 00:07:14,400 and I chose Osgood mainly because that was the program 124 00:07:14,410 --> 00:07:16,960 that worked near at the time. It was every everything was 125 00:07:16,970 --> 00:07:19,200 online. I could do it from the comfort 126 00:07:19,210 --> 00:07:22,800 of my home. And you know, that was the real 127 00:07:22,850 --> 00:07:25,230 difference for me. I don't think I would have gone 128 00:07:25,240 --> 00:07:27,600 back if it was in person at the time. 129 00:07:27,610 --> 00:07:29,700 So that was the difference for me personally. 130 00:07:29,710 --> 00:07:32,900 Can we explore a little more about your experience said and 131 00:07:32,910 --> 00:07:36,440 Austin where there are few things also that beyond the the 132 00:07:36,450 --> 00:07:39,980 online way that was delivered that that helped you in that 133 00:07:40,040 --> 00:07:43,760 really stood out to you and and also did it shape the way your 134 00:07:43,770 --> 00:07:47,180 legal career has been going in Canada anyway? 135 00:07:47,270 --> 00:07:49,670 Yeah, absolutely. I mean, frankly, the lecturers 136 00:07:49,680 --> 00:07:52,920 who were involved in all these courses were fantastic. 137 00:07:53,230 --> 00:07:55,780 They really delivered the course as well. 138 00:07:55,790 --> 00:07:58,610 We felt connected, even though we were online, we felt really 139 00:07:58,620 --> 00:08:01,310 connected. I loved the flow of the courses. 140 00:08:01,320 --> 00:08:04,030 You know, you could do something like the law of obligations, 141 00:08:04,090 --> 00:08:07,720 including, you know, contract law and the and tort law into 142 00:08:07,730 --> 00:08:11,040 one. And so the method of the, the 143 00:08:11,050 --> 00:08:14,790 formula and the method of the courses were really engaging. 144 00:08:14,880 --> 00:08:17,970 You know, even aside we had Korea services, we had people 145 00:08:17,980 --> 00:08:21,940 trying to help us, you know, frame how we, we were going to 146 00:08:22,260 --> 00:08:26,910 further our offer our LM. So there was a lot of support 147 00:08:26,920 --> 00:08:30,730 within the program, as well as the fact that we had a suddenly 148 00:08:30,740 --> 00:08:33,370 we had 200 people who were our peers. 149 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:35,919 And these are the people who are going to go into the Canadian 150 00:08:35,929 --> 00:08:38,530 labour market. And we were growing together and 151 00:08:38,539 --> 00:08:41,070 already building our base. Even though we were new coming 152 00:08:41,549 --> 00:08:46,030 though, Osgood provided that kind of platform in shaping and 153 00:08:46,040 --> 00:08:50,650 creating an international legal community, which I, you know, I 154 00:08:50,660 --> 00:08:52,670 thought was incredible. Incredible. 155 00:08:52,680 --> 00:08:56,360 So that you also studied entertainment law and I'd love 156 00:08:56,370 --> 00:08:58,700 to hear what drew you to that field. 157 00:08:58,770 --> 00:09:01,980 I know you are an artist yourself and interested in the 158 00:09:01,990 --> 00:09:04,700 arts, so can I hear a little more about that? 159 00:09:04,750 --> 00:09:07,190 Sure. So as I said, you know, way back 160 00:09:07,200 --> 00:09:10,560 at school I was interested in the literature and authors 161 00:09:10,570 --> 00:09:14,140 always being a part of my life. And I always have a sketchbook 162 00:09:14,150 --> 00:09:17,130 by my guide. Why payment law? 163 00:09:17,140 --> 00:09:21,770 Well, I could offer an entertainment law certificate at 164 00:09:21,780 --> 00:09:25,010 the beginning of each year. And so after doing copyright 165 00:09:25,020 --> 00:09:29,470 law, I decided that I really wanted to get into the the 166 00:09:29,480 --> 00:09:32,070 workings of entertainment law. Let's go back a little bit. 167 00:09:32,080 --> 00:09:34,910 While I was finishing my masters, I was also a legal 168 00:09:34,920 --> 00:09:37,530 intern for an entertainment company called Thunderbird 169 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:40,850 England in Vancouver. I was working remotely and that 170 00:09:40,860 --> 00:09:45,010 kind of helped me understand the nature of entertainment law. 171 00:09:45,760 --> 00:09:49,750 A little bit of a, an overview. So I was doing, you know, right, 172 00:09:51,190 --> 00:09:55,250 distribution agreements. I was, you know, doing certain 173 00:09:55,260 --> 00:09:58,270 things that were all involved in payment goal and in the 174 00:09:58,280 --> 00:10:01,490 animation field. So while I was doing that at 175 00:10:01,530 --> 00:10:06,100 during my LM, I thought I really needed to focus on, you know, 176 00:10:06,150 --> 00:10:08,460 honing my skills in and Seminole. 177 00:10:08,670 --> 00:10:11,960 And so I decided to do a certification, which was an 178 00:10:11,970 --> 00:10:15,610 intent to cause about a week. And because I was a recent 179 00:10:15,620 --> 00:10:18,210 student, I got a discount for it. 180 00:10:18,220 --> 00:10:21,020 So, you know, that helps because these courses are not, you know, 181 00:10:21,030 --> 00:10:24,060 they're not feed. But I took it and I really, 182 00:10:24,070 --> 00:10:26,380 really enjoyed. It from what I saw here, your 183 00:10:26,390 --> 00:10:30,080 work at Barrick Gold involved cross-border legal matters in 184 00:10:30,090 --> 00:10:33,250 mining and natural resources, and I'd love to hear what did 185 00:10:33,260 --> 00:10:37,170 this experience teach you about working with global teams and 186 00:10:37,180 --> 00:10:41,430 global clients as well. OK, So I thought of working for 187 00:10:41,440 --> 00:10:45,430 Barack as the company Barack had the preference in Tanzania when 188 00:10:45,440 --> 00:10:50,280 I was in a law firm in Tanzania. So I I worked on employment 189 00:10:50,290 --> 00:10:52,930 issues, I worked on corporate masses. 190 00:10:53,140 --> 00:10:55,690 And then when I moved to South Africa, I worked for another 191 00:10:55,700 --> 00:10:59,730 Wolfram in South Africa, but also was engaged with some of 192 00:10:59,740 --> 00:11:03,370 the work that Barack was doing back in Tanzania. 193 00:11:03,380 --> 00:11:08,270 And South Africa is connected to barrack innocent from from 194 00:11:08,320 --> 00:11:13,150 outside structure that's illegal, you know a junior in a 195 00:11:13,160 --> 00:11:16,110 law firm on cases working with Barack. 196 00:11:16,400 --> 00:11:20,650 And then when I came to to Canada, I needed needed to 197 00:11:20,660 --> 00:11:25,770 requalify and argue the opportunity to fulfill my 4 198 00:11:25,780 --> 00:11:29,830 month requirement because I did my placement through the east 199 00:11:30,220 --> 00:11:33,230 and I needed one year 4 month session. 200 00:11:33,240 --> 00:11:35,090 So Barry gave me that opportunity. 201 00:11:35,160 --> 00:11:38,890 I ended up staying for a year and working in corporate 202 00:11:38,900 --> 00:11:45,460 commercial math is so moving around different jurisdictions 203 00:11:45,550 --> 00:11:51,160 with one company really helped me understand the way the 204 00:11:51,170 --> 00:11:54,760 company worked and you're having jurisdiction, but also, you 205 00:11:54,770 --> 00:11:56,480 know, dealing with local council. 206 00:11:56,490 --> 00:12:00,660 I with local council at one stage just understanding how the 207 00:12:00,710 --> 00:12:04,280 different legal framework to give you an example, you know, 208 00:12:04,290 --> 00:12:08,320 dispute resolution, some jurisdictions want to, you know, 209 00:12:08,330 --> 00:12:12,060 it, it's heavy heavy. There's others want you negate 210 00:12:12,070 --> 00:12:16,640 and so agreement change based on the jurisdiction based on that. 211 00:12:16,690 --> 00:12:19,520 You know, in Tanzania, education was really difficult. 212 00:12:19,530 --> 00:12:23,740 We almost never went for mitigation route because it was 213 00:12:24,310 --> 00:12:26,400 the process was really long and arduous. 214 00:12:26,510 --> 00:12:29,010 Then there was no kind of time limit to it. 215 00:12:29,150 --> 00:12:33,850 So we always advise people to negotiate or even arbitrate and 216 00:12:33,860 --> 00:12:38,190 like age, you know. So that's just an example of how 217 00:12:38,200 --> 00:12:40,570 the different jurisdictions work with one company. 218 00:12:40,580 --> 00:12:43,490 So that one company obviously does similar things around 219 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:46,430 different shapes teachings and we just have to figure out how 220 00:12:46,440 --> 00:12:50,650 those vehicle feared deal with certain issues, essentially a 221 00:12:50,660 --> 00:12:54,940 communication and a conversation with different legal community. 222 00:12:54,950 --> 00:12:56,860 Amazing. Well, from what I understand, 223 00:12:56,870 --> 00:13:00,080 you're now at Blakes and I'd love to hear how has your role 224 00:13:00,090 --> 00:13:03,410 evolved and and what are you most excited about in your 225 00:13:03,420 --> 00:13:04,350 current league of? Work. 226 00:13:04,410 --> 00:13:07,870 So I've come back to law firm and, you know, in Toronto and 227 00:13:08,180 --> 00:13:12,920 I'm really learning how the law firm environment and private 228 00:13:12,930 --> 00:13:17,150 practice work because I was in private practice in, in, in 229 00:13:17,160 --> 00:13:20,000 Tanzania and Africa. Now in Canada. 230 00:13:20,070 --> 00:13:23,920 Things have all heard all have, you know, AI, We have systems in 231 00:13:23,930 --> 00:13:28,000 place back when I was writing down my hours. 232 00:13:28,010 --> 00:13:31,120 Now I can input into the system. So things have changed and 233 00:13:31,170 --> 00:13:33,850 evolved. I've only been here six months. 234 00:13:33,860 --> 00:13:38,500 So I'm still very much in the learning environment, but it's a 235 00:13:38,510 --> 00:13:42,180 very collegial environment and I'm still mostly doing corporate 236 00:13:42,190 --> 00:13:45,300 commercial work and, you know, with mining company. 237 00:13:51,620 --> 00:13:54,490 If you're an internationally trained lawyer or law student 238 00:13:54,500 --> 00:13:58,330 working in or trying to break into an English speaking common 239 00:13:58,340 --> 00:14:02,010 law system, you know that legal writing is one of the biggest 240 00:14:02,020 --> 00:14:05,460 challenges and one of the most important skills to master. 241 00:14:06,280 --> 00:14:08,170 That's where Grammatica comes in. 242 00:14:08,580 --> 00:14:11,630 I'm Rebecca Lockwood, the lawyer, mediator, educator and 243 00:14:11,640 --> 00:14:13,620 founder of Grammatica International. 244 00:14:14,510 --> 00:14:18,860 We help lawyers and law students to write sharper, speak clearer, 245 00:14:18,950 --> 00:14:23,360 and land more interviews with on demand online courses, live 246 00:14:23,370 --> 00:14:26,730 workshops and one-on-one consulting designed just for 247 00:14:26,740 --> 00:14:29,600 legal professionals. I have worked with so many 248 00:14:29,610 --> 00:14:32,960 lawyers like you who are exceptionally smart, qualified 249 00:14:32,970 --> 00:14:36,260 and capable, but need some guidance to really stand out in 250 00:14:36,270 --> 00:14:39,380 a competitive legal market. And I get it myself, having 251 00:14:39,390 --> 00:14:42,480 lived and worked in five countries during my 17 years in 252 00:14:42,490 --> 00:14:45,540 law and education. Whether you're looking to 253 00:14:45,550 --> 00:14:49,160 sharpen your writing skills generally, refresh your CD, or 254 00:14:49,170 --> 00:14:52,200 draft an application for a law program, Grammatica can help. 255 00:14:52,860 --> 00:15:00,680 Visit Grammatico to get started. Amazing. 256 00:15:00,730 --> 00:15:03,780 Well, I also know that you're very involved with community 257 00:15:03,790 --> 00:15:07,680 organizations and I know that to some extent they play a big role 258 00:15:07,690 --> 00:15:09,620 in your life. And I know you're a natural 259 00:15:09,630 --> 00:15:11,740 connector. So I'd, I'd love to hear a 260 00:15:11,750 --> 00:15:14,460 little bit about that too. Why do you think this community 261 00:15:14,550 --> 00:15:16,600 engagement is? Important for lawyers? 262 00:15:16,610 --> 00:15:20,490 Well, I mean, studying law in South Africa and in Tanzania and 263 00:15:20,500 --> 00:15:24,580 you know, qualifying in Tanzania and Canada, the, the one mandate 264 00:15:24,630 --> 00:15:27,160 is clear. When you become a lawyer, you 265 00:15:27,170 --> 00:15:30,000 have to get back. And essentially that's why I, 266 00:15:30,350 --> 00:15:34,960 I'm in community work. I do it for full there is reason 267 00:15:34,970 --> 00:15:38,460 to connect you know to understand what's going on, but 268 00:15:38,470 --> 00:15:42,040 also to kind of give back. Although volunteer work I do and 269 00:15:42,050 --> 00:15:46,810 and and lecture at cable the Canadian Association of black 270 00:15:46,820 --> 00:15:49,140 oil that I'm going into my second year now. 271 00:15:49,370 --> 00:15:53,860 I've just joined the Ontario Power Association as a member at 272 00:15:53,870 --> 00:15:59,600 large for the corporate council in house section and I'm also 273 00:15:59,650 --> 00:16:06,000 new to duty council for artists legal advice services, Allah 274 00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:10,720 approve Bruno organization. As you can see, I'm, you know, 275 00:16:11,460 --> 00:16:15,630 Paraguay, I come from a joint cable, the Oba and I'm very 276 00:16:15,640 --> 00:16:20,570 interested in in confu roles and alas, is the asset side. 277 00:16:20,580 --> 00:16:24,630 So I've been kind of strategic. There's a lot of volunteer 278 00:16:24,640 --> 00:16:28,110 opportunities out there, but overtime I've become chicky 279 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,470 chick about the volunteer opportunity that wants to do 280 00:16:30,480 --> 00:16:34,250 because that's the area I want to go in and understand, but 281 00:16:34,260 --> 00:16:37,630 also give back. So it gives me great pleasure to 282 00:16:37,640 --> 00:16:41,250 be able to, you know, speak to us novelists and say, you know, 283 00:16:41,260 --> 00:16:43,550 these are your rights, your licensing, right? 284 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:47,610 This is what you can do as an artist myself, I feel like I can 285 00:16:47,620 --> 00:16:49,960 relate. So that is the main reason, you 286 00:16:49,970 --> 00:16:53,690 know when you become a lawyer, you must get back for it and and 287 00:16:53,700 --> 00:16:57,580 that many professions, including the low profession. 288 00:16:57,690 --> 00:17:02,160 Amazing to to wrap up today's episode, I'd love to hear about, 289 00:17:02,230 --> 00:17:06,260 you know, a final thing for internationally trained lawyers 290 00:17:06,310 --> 00:17:09,180 specifically who might be listening to this episode. 291 00:17:09,230 --> 00:17:14,060 What's 1 idea, mindset, strategy, or you know, even a 292 00:17:14,069 --> 00:17:18,420 piece of advice that you help, that you have that helped you to 293 00:17:18,430 --> 00:17:22,130 integrate and, and build this very meaningful career that 294 00:17:22,140 --> 00:17:25,260 you've built here in Canada. That's a great question. 295 00:17:25,270 --> 00:17:29,020 And then actually it ties in with the kind of work that I do 296 00:17:29,450 --> 00:17:34,490 at the career support for I speak to international lawyers 297 00:17:34,500 --> 00:17:39,210 who are trying to, you know, alongside due qualify and do the 298 00:17:39,220 --> 00:17:42,970 NCAA through the masters, try and figure out how to get a job 299 00:17:42,980 --> 00:17:46,870 within this market. What I always say to them is, 300 00:17:46,940 --> 00:17:51,530 you know, it may be difficult to get in first, but you need to 301 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,910 really put yourself out there and go to every event. 302 00:17:54,920 --> 00:17:57,910 The market is really small. The legal market is really 303 00:17:57,920 --> 00:18:00,730 small. So choose your direction, choose 304 00:18:00,740 --> 00:18:03,720 the area before you interested it and then be involved. 305 00:18:03,900 --> 00:18:09,390 Go to networking event, go to seminars and webinars and and so 306 00:18:09,480 --> 00:18:13,010 integrate with people. But what helped me say 307 00:18:13,700 --> 00:18:17,730 integrated is sneaking people who had done this process, 308 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,750 whether it was the Osgood or the NCAA or another university, and 309 00:18:21,760 --> 00:18:25,370 the people who are with me and understanding what we all want 310 00:18:25,380 --> 00:18:28,970 to do and also trying to help what I'm trying to do right now, 311 00:18:29,050 --> 00:18:30,630 people who are coming off the beat. 312 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:36,370 So the strategy is constant communication and free flow of 313 00:18:36,380 --> 00:18:38,610 information. So, you know, people reach out 314 00:18:38,620 --> 00:18:41,710 to me all the time. Cold call on Lincoln or anything 315 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:44,130 saying, hey, can I talk to you about your experience? 316 00:18:44,200 --> 00:18:49,450 And I'm always willing to give my time because I know what it's 317 00:18:49,460 --> 00:18:52,230 like to be that when I first came here, we didn't have as 318 00:18:52,240 --> 00:18:56,810 many people posting on LinkedIn or, you know, having caused the 319 00:18:56,980 --> 00:19:00,130 to understand what the the weak qualification process was. 320 00:19:00,300 --> 00:19:04,050 But now we do, we have a choice. We have so many organizations 321 00:19:04,060 --> 00:19:06,910 out there who are giving us a lot of information. 322 00:19:06,920 --> 00:19:09,510 And sometimes it may be an information overload. 323 00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,550 But yeah, so I think it just staying grounded with the people 324 00:19:12,560 --> 00:19:15,390 who've gone before, the people who are doing it with you and 325 00:19:15,400 --> 00:19:18,120 the people who are coming up. I love that and what a way to 326 00:19:18,130 --> 00:19:19,600 build the community as well, huh? 327 00:19:20,480 --> 00:19:23,470 Well, what was I really appreciate you taking the time 328 00:19:23,480 --> 00:19:25,830 to being in the podcast today. I really appreciate your 329 00:19:25,840 --> 00:19:29,530 insights and just wanted to say thank. 330 00:19:29,540 --> 00:19:32,560 You, well, I want to thank you to Claudia because what you're 331 00:19:32,570 --> 00:19:35,620 doing is incredible. You called me a connector, but 332 00:19:35,630 --> 00:19:38,730 you are a super connector and giving your time. 333 00:19:38,740 --> 00:19:42,730 And what about it off as just also a dream during COVID, 334 00:19:42,740 --> 00:19:46,610 right? You're 75 lawyers and now it's 335 00:19:46,660 --> 00:19:50,460 exponential. And I really applaud what you're 336 00:19:50,470 --> 00:19:52,210 doing. The approach that you bring to 337 00:19:52,220 --> 00:19:56,530 it is so professional. And I I'm wishing you luck and 338 00:19:56,540 --> 00:20:01,660 I'm looking forward to the Oreo. Crusade that and thank you all 339 00:20:01,670 --> 00:20:04,490 for tuning into today's episode and hope to see you on the next 340 00:20:04,500 --> 00:20:04,740 one.