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Welcome to Studying Law Around 
the World. 

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I'm Claudio Claus. 
In each episode, I talk with 

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lawyers, law students, and 
professors from different parts 

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of the world to talk about legal
education, careers, and what the

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profession looks like in real 
life. 

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We talk about the hard parts, 
the surprises, and the decisions

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that shaped their paths. 
Whether you're planning to study

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abroad, thinking about working 
in another legal system, or just

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curious about how law works 
around the world, this podcast 

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is for you. 
Today I'm hosting Kenny Alami, 

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he has a very, very interesting 
career and an interesting 

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process and company that he's 
been building for law firms. 

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Specifically his company is 
called Nod Operations. 

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And I'm so excited to to learn a
little bit from you. 

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Kenny. 
Thank you so much for making the

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time to be in the podcast today.
Pretty excited to chat. 

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I think it's going to be. 
Fun, awesome, and she started 

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conversations today. 
I'd love for you to introduce 

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yourself. 
Sure. 

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So yeah, name is Kenya, Amy, I'm
the founder of Nob Paration. 

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So you can think of us as a tech
firm and we help professional 

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services firms Essentially 
whatever they can do with your 

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computer, we help them do with 
the computer rather than that do

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it manually. 
So we worked with 60 something 

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clients, usually between 4 and 
50 people in the team. 

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And to give you a bit of the 
high level vision that we have 

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for the future, which we think 
is exciting and is getting 

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closer and closer is ready to 
make work as fun as possible and

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potentially, you know, just 
being almost not work. 

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So that you know, you get to 
enjoy working with your clients,

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with your team. 
But at the moment, the mission 

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is really helping people, you 
know, leverage technology and AI

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in their businesses as much as 
possible, so they get rid of the

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tedious and. 
Repetitive work amazing. 

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So I, I see there's a lot of 
intersection of management, AI 

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tech management. 
There's lots of things that that

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come about in that topic and I 
wanted to ask you to tell us a 

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little more about your 
experience with technology and 

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even how that shaped the 
approach that you have to 

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business operations nowadays. 
Yeah. 

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So I mean, I think the approach 
is really to make it useful to 

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humans to, you know, people 
working in in those firms is 

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really is really the big thing 
because with the advent of, you 

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know, tech and AI and, you know,
in the Silicon Valley, you feel 

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like everyone wants to use tech 
to solve everything all the 

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time. 
And sometimes you realize that 

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people don't understand the 
problems that they are facing in

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businesses. 
So I find that really the most 

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important before even thinking 
about, hey, do we need 

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technology or which tool we 
need, which take we need is 

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really understand. 
OK, what's the problem that we 

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are facing where the problem 
that we're trying to face, but 

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mostly also, you know, we are 
working with clients. 

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So when you're working with 
clients is, hey, what's 

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providing value to the people 
that we're working with? 

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And then once you have dads and 
you identify, OK, like you know,

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we know what would bring value 
to our clients that you can 

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reach activity and retro 
engineer from there and say, OK,

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this is the problem that we have
to solve to provide that value. 

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And then what kind of tools and 
solutions can we, you know, just

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put in place to solve those 
problems. 

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So really the approach is, yeah,
taking it from from that 

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perspective. 
So like, OK, what's the value 

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that would would be providing to
to our clients and to the team, 

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not the other way? 
Sounds amazing. 

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So I did read some of the things
you've put out there on, on 

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LinkedIn and, and on your 
website. 

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And I think that one of the 
things that I saw that kind of 

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repeats a few times is that, you
know, many business owners, 

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probably law firm partners and, 
and operators, administrators, 

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they can feel stuck despite 
having really, you know, 

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thriving operations. 
But really on the administrative

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side, there's some 
complications, right, that make 

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it feel like things are not 
progressing as well as they 

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should. 
And I'm curious, you know in 

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your experience what what you've
been seeing around, what are 

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some of the most common 
bottlenecks that you see in 

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business operations, especially 
in the law firm contacts? 

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I feel the most common one is, 
is really, you know, being too 

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reactive. 
Most people, I think you could 

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throw a stone out there and most
people, you know, like you would

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just hit like a busy person. 
Like everyone is super busy all 

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the time. 
And nowadays it's even worse 

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because there's just so much 
information, so much to consume,

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so much going on, a lot of 
change, and it's just 

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overwhelming and everyone seems 
to be extremely busy. 

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And I find that a lot of the 
times people are very reactive 

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and they don't necessarily take 
the time to, you know, just 

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carve maybe 30 minutes or an 
hour to really try to be a bit 

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more strategic. 
Reflect on their systems, 

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reflect on, you know, the 
experiences that they have with 

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clients Or even, you know, just 
maybe have a bit more of those 

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conversations on like, hey, how 
can we do better or what can we 

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change? 
But also, you know, like 

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stemming out of that, then, you 
know, documenting all those 

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things to to make them easier to
train all the people you know, 

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in their firms to, you know, 
solve those problems faster and 

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things like that. 
So and that, that creates, you 

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know, a bunch of cascading 
problems when you get into that 

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situation because it's, it's 
just hard to, you know, when 

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you're reacting all the time. 
It's it's just hard to take the 

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time to pose and yeah, just to, 
you know, solve those problems 

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strategically and, and have a 
clear mind and, and be clear 

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headed. 
Absolutely no, I can, I can 

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totally see that. 
I think in more, you know, 

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colloquial terms, we would say 
usually you're always kind of 

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putting out fires, right? 
So there's not, there's not 

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really like a structure for 
planning and for being able to 

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follow the, the routine you've 
planned. 

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If kind of every day there's new
urgent things that show up and 

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and then you kind of become 
reactive to that, right. 

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So I really appreciate you 
bringing that up. 

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I totally agree with that, 
right. 

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I see that happening. 
And when you, when you bring the

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aspect of, you know, having a 
good sense of what are the 

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actual problems of business as, 
or what's the lack that's 

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happening there? 
I'm curious, you know, how did 

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you know, discovering tools and,
and now specifically talking 

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about, you know, automation 
tools change the way you saw 

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these problems and, and maybe 
even your career and the impact 

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that you've been having with 
your clients as those coming to 

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place. 
So I started in operations and 

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project management and I've 
always, you know, been tinkering

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with technology since a very 
young age. 

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So, you know, I've always had a 
thing or trying to, you know, 

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learning how to code, how to use
at some point I was trying to 

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make some games and stuff like 
that. 

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So I've really been like into, 
into technology. 

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But really where I'm coming from
is project management, the 

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reindeer standing, right? 
OK, how do we organize ourselves

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to deliver a project and 
justice, make sure that, you 

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know, we stay on track and we 
think strategically whenever 

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something comes along. 
And I think that's been pretty 

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valuable rather than, you know, 
coming from a purely technical 

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side, because technology is just
so complex that, you know, you 

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can lose yourself in the 
details. 

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And I'm assuming, you know, you 
probably also gone through that 

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when maybe you use like cloud, 
cloud or like those Viper game 

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coding tools. 
And then you just go through 

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like a rabbit hole. 
And once you're in there, you 

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just lose track of like, yeah, 
OK, but what am I doing that? 

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What am I doing? 
What I'm, what I'm doing, you 

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know, why is it useful? 
What's the goal I'm trying to 

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achieve and how is that aligning
with that goal what I'm doing 

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right now? 
So, you know, kind of the 

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combination of, of the two is 
quite useful in the sense of 

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asking those questions of like, 
OK, what I'm doing right now is 

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really helpful, you know, for 
the firm. 

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Is that really helping the 
people to make their work more 

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efficient? 
Or I would just, you know, using

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AI or tag because, you know, 
everyone's using a or tag or is 

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it really, you know, solving a 
problem that we have? 

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So in that sense, I feel it's, 
it's quite useful not to be 

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bogged down by, by those details
too much and being able to, you 

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know, see kind of the horizon. 
Fantastic. 

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You know, very, very interesting
to to take that into 

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consideration. 
I love that when I think about 

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love firms and, and I think 
about the overall like things 

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that are seeing in the media and
sometimes how it's portrayed, 

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there is this impression maybe 
that law firms are very 

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traditional space or that it's 
very conservative, risk averse. 

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And in some instances can be, 
you know, complicated when it 

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comes to technology and all of 
that. 

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But it's, it's obvious that as 
the world evolves and maybe even

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as COVID made it kind of 
impossible, not you more and 

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more law firms of all sizes are 
really leading into technology 

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big time. 
So I wanted to ask you a little 

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more, you know, how have you 
helped legal teams to adopt 

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technology? 
And, and I'm sure there's, you 

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know, all these concerns about 
compliance, quality and so 

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forth, privacy. 
But what are some of the, the 

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steps that you go through? 
And maybe if you can share with 

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us you know a little more about,
you know, the, the work you've 

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done so far and what kind of 
tools specifically that looks 

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like. 
For sure. 

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I mean, I think what's the most 
important I would say is picking

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the right tools and the right 
foundation. 

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And what I mean by that is, you 
know, you don't want to build 

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your firm on Word and 
spreadsheets in terms of, you 

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know, the business side of 
things. 

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You don't want to have, you 
know, all your invoices stuck in

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in Word or keeping track of your
project in the spreadsheet 

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because it's brutal. 
And, you know, maybe it would 

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work for one or two persons, but
once you're past a certain size,

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you know, there's good software 
and there is people that have 

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been thinking about the problems
like, you know, keeping track of

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cases or keeping track of 
projects or keeping track of, 

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you know, yourselves, you know, 
the relationships that you have 

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or the the leads that you bring 
in the firm. 

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And you essentially, if you just
use a spreadsheet, you're kind 

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of trying to almost spend the 
same amount of time, you know, 

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build those, rebuild those tools
in the spreadsheet. 

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Whereas like you could, you 
know, just get one off the shelf

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and get straight off a tool 
that's very efficient and allows

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you to solve those problems way 
faster. 

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You know, like keeping track of 
your leads or sending contracts 

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automatically, you know, keeping
track of your deadlines and in a

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case management software, things
like that. 

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So I would say that's probably 
the most important, you know, 

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making sure that you have those 
tools, that they are obviously 

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have a good user experience, so 
it's pleasant to learn them and 

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to navigate them. 
And the other thing they are 

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kind of still on the business 
requirement side is also making 

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sure that they're open. 
And what I mean by that is that 

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they have what's called an API, 
which is essentially a way to 

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connect your tools 
automatically. 

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So, you know, you can transfer 
data, but you can also do 

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automated actions in it. 
It's going to be even more 

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important to make sure that you 
have those open software when 

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you know, people start having 
like AI agents and you can ask 

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and they are like, hey, just 
like, you know, go get this data

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in this tool and go do that 
other thing on that tool and 

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summarize all the data from 
those four different tools. 

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And if you have all the software
that I closed and specially 

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like, hey, you can't have your, 
I can't have access to any of 

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that stuff, You're just going to
be way slower than those people 

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that, you know, have those tools
at their disposal. 

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So that's kind of like, you 
know, the business for 

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requirement side. 
And then obviously you have, 

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let's say, the more security 
side of things, compliance side 

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of things. 
That's also super important 

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because, you know, we're talking
about pulling data in the cloud 

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on the server somewhere or, you 
know, getting data out or in 

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other software. 
So, you know, when the data is 

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in your in your in your tool, 
you just want to make sure that 

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it's secure enough that no one 
can get in it and steal your 

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data or do anything with it. 
And similarly, you know, when 

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you take it in and out of the 
stuff that you want to make sure

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that no one can catch it. 
O when you choose the software, 

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you need to make sure you do a 
bit of research on like, Hey, 

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how are they handling my data? 
Is it safe? 

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I believe you need to make sure 
you understand at least the big 

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lines of it. 
Like, you know, hey, I can, you 

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know, assess quickly for 
software is safe for now. 

235
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But, you know, seeing like those
requirements. 

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So then you don't expose 
yourself to maybe some guy that 

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just vibe coded CRM and you just
gave it money and then somehow 

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it's super dangerous because 
anyone can enter it. 

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So, yeah, you just want to make 
sure, you know, you do a bit of,

240
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of due diligence there and maybe
learn a bit about, you know, 

241
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what makes the software secure. 
Don't need to be a cyber expert,

242
00:12:56,690 --> 00:13:00,090
but knowing that the big trends 
and the big lines are are 

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important. 
Amazing, and I think that one of

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the interesting things that we 
can see now we've we've AI and 

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with this advancement is that 
even if you're not necessarily 

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well versed in these pools, you 
can always maybe go and ask an 

247
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AI bought about like how to how 
to learn those or how to do 

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these assessments. 
Recently I've I've participated,

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we've we've a project that 
basically was creating some of 

250
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the guidelines of how do you 
even, how do you even, you know,

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choose software when it comes to
legal? 

252
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Because really with all the hype
going on, there really needs to 

253
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be some kind of a playbook, 
right, for, for being able to 

254
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buy AI. 
And it's a little different than

255
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just buying softwares, right? 
So it was basically an idea of, 

256
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of having legal benchmarks for 
an evaluation framework. 

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So you know what, you ask 
vendors and, and all of that. 

258
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And it was very interesting to 
see how the profession kind of 

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came together to, to really like
bring better standards, right? 

260
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So everyone kind of knew what 
was going on, everybody's trying

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to figure it out. 
But it's really good when this 

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kind of collaboration comes 
about. 

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00:14:10,860 --> 00:14:14,590
And on the other hand, I feel 
like technology evolves at such 

264
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a pace that we are kind of 
always trying to catch up to it,

265
00:14:17,700 --> 00:14:20,410
right? 
Obviously everywhere, every 

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00:14:20,420 --> 00:14:25,100
every third article, every 3rd, 
you know, news, it's something 

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00:14:25,110 --> 00:14:28,220
about AI. 
So from your experience, when is

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AI the right solution and when 
are those simple systems more 

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effective being you know, from 
the cost side or from really the

270
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the functionality that it has to
be done? 

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So there is a spectrum from, you
know, if you're, let's say you 

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have a specific, you know, 
process, if it's very 

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deterministic. 
And by that I mean if the rules 

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are always the same, you know, 
let's say if you're always copy 

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pasting the same thing and 
always the same info that you're

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00:14:56,560 --> 00:14:59,520
copy pasting, that's that means 
it's very deterministic. 

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And then you have on the other 
side of the spectrum, you know, 

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things are a bit more uncertain.
So you don't the outcome that 

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you're going to get may vary 
widely. 

280
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I feel that on this side where 
it's very uncertain, AI is 

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usually better and on the side 
where it's very deterministic, 

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then you can use, you know, 
tools, you know, code or scripts

283
00:15:18,850 --> 00:15:23,060
or ZAP here some of those things
that it's easier to have 

284
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specific rules in place. 
To give you an example, at some 

285
00:15:26,610 --> 00:15:32,550
point there was a family law 
firm in California and they had 

286
00:15:32,860 --> 00:15:39,940
something like 550,000, you 
know, names in the database that

287
00:15:39,950 --> 00:15:41,360
they had to do conflict checks 
on. 

288
00:15:41,410 --> 00:15:45,730
And it was pretty tedious 
because they were doing that in 

289
00:15:45,740 --> 00:15:47,710
HubSpot. 
And, you know, the search in 

290
00:15:47,720 --> 00:15:50,770
HubSpot is not very good. 
So there was a potential, you 

291
00:15:50,780 --> 00:15:53,310
know, to miss something. 
And they approached me and they 

292
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:55,910
were like, Hey, we'd like to use
AI to do that. 

293
00:15:55,920 --> 00:15:59,950
But quickly I realize like, hey,
like 50,000 names fitting that 

294
00:15:59,960 --> 00:16:03,650
to an AI that sounds like it's 
going to be very slow and the 

295
00:16:03,660 --> 00:16:06,760
potential that it misses 
something is pretty high. 

296
00:16:06,820 --> 00:16:09,850
So in the end, we ended up, you 
know, to be too technical, but 

297
00:16:09,860 --> 00:16:12,660
putting everything in database 
and doing, finding a solution 

298
00:16:12,670 --> 00:16:17,130
that's actually, we've had for a
bunch of years now before I that

299
00:16:17,200 --> 00:16:20,510
is quite reliable that, you 
know, just with code, a way to 

300
00:16:20,520 --> 00:16:23,950
search all those names and find 
similarities in the names or 

301
00:16:23,960 --> 00:16:26,420
even like, you know, in the 
sounds, if there are similar 

302
00:16:26,430 --> 00:16:28,330
sounds. 
And so there are tools to do 

303
00:16:28,340 --> 00:16:32,000
that that literally would happen
in milliseconds rather than 

304
00:16:32,010 --> 00:16:35,870
potentially minutes with an AI. 
So in those specific instances, 

305
00:16:35,880 --> 00:16:38,840
you know, there are tools that 
we've had for a decade or so 

306
00:16:38,850 --> 00:16:42,560
before AI came around that we 
can use to address these use 

307
00:16:42,570 --> 00:16:45,220
cases. 
But on the other hand, let's say

308
00:16:45,230 --> 00:16:48,980
you're always when countering 
cases that are, you know, very 

309
00:16:48,990 --> 00:16:53,580
different from each other. 
And maybe in the in the example 

310
00:16:53,590 --> 00:16:56,050
of contracts that are widely 
different, you know, in widely 

311
00:16:56,060 --> 00:17:00,340
different industries, you can 
still extract principles. 

312
00:17:00,350 --> 00:17:03,780
Like, you know, for example, if 
you were to teach me how to 

313
00:17:03,790 --> 00:17:07,140
analyze those contracts, you 
could do the same for an AI and,

314
00:17:07,150 --> 00:17:09,920
you know, try to teach it and 
formalize that knowledge. 

315
00:17:09,930 --> 00:17:12,569
And they said, like, here's the 
contract, you know, go through 

316
00:17:12,579 --> 00:17:14,650
it and help me, you know, 
analyze it. 

317
00:17:14,660 --> 00:17:16,589
Here's the things they need to 
look out for. 

318
00:17:16,599 --> 00:17:20,170
In that case, AI is a bit, you 
know, more useful because you 

319
00:17:20,180 --> 00:17:23,750
had to just like create all 
those rules and script them in, 

320
00:17:23,859 --> 00:17:26,430
in some sort of programming 
would just take you forever, 

321
00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:27,480
right? 
And it's. 

322
00:17:27,540 --> 00:17:29,350
It doesn't make sense to. 
To amazing. 

323
00:17:29,360 --> 00:17:33,430
Well, thank you for for going a 
little bit more deep into that. 

324
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:35,370
I liked that. 
I think you used the word 

325
00:17:35,380 --> 00:17:39,330
superpower should describe, you 
know, when operations become the

326
00:17:39,340 --> 00:17:43,030
superpower for illegal 
businesses, so they go from, you

327
00:17:43,040 --> 00:17:47,030
know, a problem, a bottleneck 
complication in the business 

328
00:17:47,140 --> 00:17:49,090
should being the businesses 
superpower. 

329
00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:52,560
And honestly, I see this very 
often when I read, you know, 

330
00:17:52,570 --> 00:17:54,790
LinkedIn, there's a lot of 
thought leaders that, that 

331
00:17:54,860 --> 00:17:57,640
constantly talk about the 
importance of invoicing and how 

332
00:17:57,650 --> 00:18:01,180
it's such a, such a struggle, it
seems throughout the, the 

333
00:18:01,190 --> 00:18:05,110
profession throughout, you know,
different size of firms and all 

334
00:18:05,120 --> 00:18:06,880
of that. 
So I'm, I'm curious, you know, 

335
00:18:06,890 --> 00:18:11,770
can you give some examples of a 
business that that transform in 

336
00:18:11,780 --> 00:18:15,980
that way making, you know, 
really that operation from a 

337
00:18:15,990 --> 00:18:20,480
bottleneck from a difficult 
painful thing to really that 

338
00:18:20,810 --> 00:18:25,080
superpower of the business? 
Well, there's a good example 

339
00:18:25,090 --> 00:18:29,640
that I came across in the last 
couple of weeks that I thought 

340
00:18:29,650 --> 00:18:34,040
was was pretty interesting. 
Probably heard about about him. 

341
00:18:34,110 --> 00:18:36,240
I don't remember the name of his
firm, but I think his name was 

342
00:18:36,250 --> 00:18:38,830
Zach Shapiro. 
I think he's article went 

343
00:18:38,840 --> 00:18:46,920
everywhere in the legal world, 
but I really liked what he built

344
00:18:47,000 --> 00:18:50,130
and what he highlighted. 
So, you know, I think he's been 

345
00:18:50,140 --> 00:18:54,370
using like cloth in general, 
like clockwork and cloud code 

346
00:18:54,440 --> 00:18:57,510
and essentially what it's done 
is, you know, he's been talking 

347
00:18:57,840 --> 00:19:02,310
with those tools a lot and 
having lots of chats and really 

348
00:19:02,380 --> 00:19:08,260
is brainstorm with the IA way to
formalize all his his knowledge 

349
00:19:08,350 --> 00:19:10,540
in what they call different 
skills, which are essentially 

350
00:19:10,550 --> 00:19:14,860
just a collection of, you know, 
text files that just explain, 

351
00:19:14,930 --> 00:19:18,000
you know, have your processes 
and your instructions and all 

352
00:19:18,010 --> 00:19:21,240
your principles, maybe 
references on what good looks 

353
00:19:21,250 --> 00:19:23,660
like. 
So and the I can reference that.

354
00:19:23,730 --> 00:19:26,100
And now, I mean, he claims that 
now he can just send the 

355
00:19:26,110 --> 00:19:28,860
contract or something like that.
And then, you know, the I just 

356
00:19:28,910 --> 00:19:31,300
like does all their work 
automatically. 

357
00:19:31,350 --> 00:19:34,580
But what I liked and white 
highlighted, I feel like is 

358
00:19:34,590 --> 00:19:38,100
where this is going is that, you
know, I don't think we've it's 

359
00:19:38,110 --> 00:19:40,340
not natural for us to learn 
software. 

360
00:19:40,390 --> 00:19:43,400
Like it's not natural for us to 
be like, Oh, I'm going to click 

361
00:19:43,410 --> 00:19:45,420
here. 
If I want to get an invoice, I 

362
00:19:45,430 --> 00:19:48,820
have where do I get this invoice
and how do I issue an invoice? 

363
00:19:48,830 --> 00:19:51,310
You know, I have to click in 
this menu and maybe I have to 

364
00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,670
right click here. 
Then I need to search the name, 

365
00:19:53,680 --> 00:19:55,870
but I don't remember the name. 
Where was it? 

366
00:19:55,880 --> 00:19:59,210
And like, I don't it, it doesn't
feel natural to do that. 

367
00:19:59,220 --> 00:20:02,190
Whereas, you know, talking 
outline, like I'm talking to 

368
00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,550
you've been doing that for 
hundreds of thousands of years, 

369
00:20:05,560 --> 00:20:07,690
right. 
So what I liked about what he 

370
00:20:07,700 --> 00:20:10,150
was saying is like he couldn't 
learn software. 

371
00:20:10,360 --> 00:20:14,050
And I heard that so often when 
people are like, Hey, I just in 

372
00:20:14,060 --> 00:20:17,350
love from like, I don't have the
time to run software and people 

373
00:20:17,360 --> 00:20:18,830
buy software, but I don't use 
it. 

374
00:20:18,840 --> 00:20:21,010
And I'm like, yeah, it just 
makes a lot of sense to be like,

375
00:20:21,020 --> 00:20:24,770
Hey, I just talk to the and just
helps me figure things out, 

376
00:20:24,780 --> 00:20:28,470
helps me do my work. 
I can brainstorm with it and you

377
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,580
know, eventually you can have. 
Di do stuff in in other 

378
00:20:31,590 --> 00:20:34,740
softwares for use. 
I feel like, you know, we can 

379
00:20:34,750 --> 00:20:37,280
start doing that right now, and 
I feel this is kind of like the 

380
00:20:37,290 --> 00:20:40,620
superpowers that he's 
describing, and I feel like he's

381
00:20:40,630 --> 00:20:43,680
probably also only scratching 
the surface of that, even though

382
00:20:43,690 --> 00:20:45,740
it's super impressive. 
It's like, hey, it's stuff that 

383
00:20:45,750 --> 00:20:49,080
would take me days, not take me,
you know, maybe hours and 

384
00:20:49,090 --> 00:20:52,240
research and drafting. 
And then you can really focus on

385
00:20:52,250 --> 00:20:55,110
just providing that value and 
nurturing their relationship 

386
00:20:55,120 --> 00:20:57,300
with your clients, you know, 
making sure you're there, you're

387
00:20:57,310 --> 00:20:59,740
there. 
So I really like this story for 

388
00:20:59,810 --> 00:21:02,000
that aspect of you have been 
leveraging. 

389
00:21:02,010 --> 00:21:05,200
It's being super useful, but 
also just, you know, talking 

390
00:21:05,270 --> 00:21:08,160
like you were talking to a human
and and having a chronic just 

391
00:21:08,170 --> 00:21:11,500
feels way more natural than you 
know, banging your head against 

392
00:21:11,510 --> 00:21:12,940
self threader you can't figure 
out. 

393
00:21:13,010 --> 00:21:15,490
For sure though, absolutely. 
Yeah, thank you for for 

394
00:21:15,500 --> 00:21:18,200
mentioning that. 
When when you look ahead now, 

395
00:21:18,260 --> 00:21:22,230
what kind of trends in 
automation and operations are 

396
00:21:22,240 --> 00:21:25,470
you most excited about, 
especially when we look at, you 

397
00:21:25,480 --> 00:21:29,450
know, small and mid sized? 
Law firms, I think, yeah, it is 

398
00:21:29,460 --> 00:21:32,960
the the AI agent. 
I know, I think it was last 

399
00:21:32,970 --> 00:21:35,210
year, yeah, last year where 
everyone was like, oh, it's the 

400
00:21:35,220 --> 00:21:37,470
year of the AI agent. 
And everyone was talking about 

401
00:21:37,480 --> 00:21:39,990
AI agents, but they were quite 
not there. 

402
00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:42,930
And when you were looking at it.
So like, yeah, this is not, you 

403
00:21:42,940 --> 00:21:47,150
know, reliable or really great 
at what it's doing. 

404
00:21:47,200 --> 00:21:49,490
And I think that's that's where 
it's going. 

405
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:53,330
It seems like because, you know,
it just makes more sense to, you

406
00:21:53,340 --> 00:21:56,210
know, have something you talk 
to, whether it's on WhatsApp, 

407
00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,500
sounds like, or wherever, and 
that it can help you, you know, 

408
00:21:59,510 --> 00:22:02,500
do like you were. 
So, you know, you were talking 

409
00:22:02,510 --> 00:22:06,480
about invoicing, like why would 
you have to logging into Cleo 

410
00:22:06,490 --> 00:22:08,780
and try to remember how to do 
it? 

411
00:22:08,870 --> 00:22:12,080
I mean, if you're using Cleo, 
you know, or any of those other 

412
00:22:12,090 --> 00:22:15,100
tools that you might be using 
for invoicing, why couldn't you 

413
00:22:15,110 --> 00:22:19,240
just ask the other like the 
unpaid, you know, it says for 

414
00:22:19,250 --> 00:22:23,140
the last three months and then, 
you know, the ones that are 

415
00:22:23,150 --> 00:22:28,040
appendix, send them over or even
have have it done automatically 

416
00:22:28,050 --> 00:22:32,130
like that. 
If it feels like that's that's 

417
00:22:32,140 --> 00:22:35,070
where you would want to do so 
you don't have to just like have

418
00:22:35,080 --> 00:22:38,350
to do all those work that that 
potentially your computer could 

419
00:22:38,360 --> 00:22:41,230
do. 
And that that ties back to what 

420
00:22:41,240 --> 00:22:44,100
I was telling, you know, like 
closer to the beginning of the 

421
00:22:44,110 --> 00:22:47,250
conversation, like having those 
open software and, you know, 

422
00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:51,530
making sure while you know, the 
models are getting better and 

423
00:22:51,540 --> 00:22:54,510
everyone's trying to figure out,
you know, making sure you have 

424
00:22:54,520 --> 00:22:59,190
those tools that are open that 
your processes or however, you 

425
00:22:59,200 --> 00:23:03,240
know, you do, whether it's legal
work or more on the business 

426
00:23:03,300 --> 00:23:05,170
side of things. 
You know, having everything 

427
00:23:05,180 --> 00:23:08,890
documented, you know, all your 
data is safely organize, your 

428
00:23:08,900 --> 00:23:11,510
files organized, you know your 
client data organized so that 

429
00:23:11,520 --> 00:23:16,330
when you can actually safely 
plug an agent into that, you 

430
00:23:16,340 --> 00:23:17,930
know, they know where things 
are. 

431
00:23:18,000 --> 00:23:20,990
It's easy to figure out, like it
would be easy for a human to 

432
00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:22,770
figure out. 
So then you can actually 

433
00:23:22,780 --> 00:23:27,670
leverage them rather than, you 
know, putting in a in, in in the

434
00:23:27,680 --> 00:23:30,650
middle of that it wouldn't 
understand, OK, why do I need to

435
00:23:30,660 --> 00:23:35,110
do and what I need to get those 
invoices or this client data or 

436
00:23:35,490 --> 00:23:37,940
anything like that, You won't be
able to leverage it. 

437
00:23:37,950 --> 00:23:42,210
So I would say, well, you know, 
those capabilities are becoming 

438
00:23:42,220 --> 00:23:44,270
greater and greater. 
Just making sure, you know, 

439
00:23:44,280 --> 00:23:47,260
you're getting ready and you 
have the foundations in place in

440
00:23:47,270 --> 00:23:50,960
your firm is is probably a good 
call because I think it's, yeah,

441
00:23:50,970 --> 00:23:53,430
it's about to be very exciting 
and very powerful. 

442
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,010
I feel like very fast. 
So, you know, being ready to 

443
00:23:56,020 --> 00:23:58,630
catch that wave is if it's going
to be very important. 

444
00:23:58,640 --> 00:24:00,590
Fantastic. 
Well, can you thank you so much 

445
00:24:00,600 --> 00:24:03,990
for making the time to to be in 
the podcast and to share some of

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your thoughts and and some of 
how this, you know, whole 

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process works. 
I really appreciate you be 

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coming in the. 
Show cheers. 

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Thank you. 
Appreciate. 

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It thank you all for tuning in 
and we will see you on the next 

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episode.