1 00:00:01,040 --> 00:00:03,200 In today's conversation we're going to talk about a Mishnah 2 00:00:03,200 --> 00:00:05,800 that really got me thinking about this topic of the Eskova 3 00:00:05,800 --> 00:00:07,880 around work. It really led me on this journey 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:10,840 of exploration that culminated and having this podcast of Shark 5 00:00:10,840 --> 00:00:13,760 Tank in a series about Perky Avos and that is the mission on 6 00:00:13,760 --> 00:00:17,160 Peric Dalid Mishna Yud which says Rebbe mayor Omer having a 7 00:00:17,160 --> 00:00:21,600 myth ASIC Vasopa Torah minimize your work and make sure to focus 8 00:00:21,640 --> 00:00:23,720 on learning Torah. And what specifically got me 9 00:00:23,720 --> 00:00:26,960 really thinking hard about this is a specific Mara Muckle that 10 00:00:27,280 --> 00:00:30,120 analyzes this Mishnah, which we're going to get to in a few 11 00:00:30,120 --> 00:00:31,600 minutes. Yeah, this is really interesting 12 00:00:31,600 --> 00:00:35,160 because the last couple of weeks the the Mishnais that we've seen 13 00:00:35,160 --> 00:00:39,320 have been more positive about a person's involvement in in Derek 14 00:00:39,320 --> 00:00:41,200 Eretz and Malaka, Hovasa, Malaka. 15 00:00:41,560 --> 00:00:44,240 And now this week we seem to be coming from a very different 16 00:00:44,240 --> 00:00:48,400 perspective having midnight the ASIC try to try to downplay the 17 00:00:48,400 --> 00:00:49,840 amount of time that you're spending on work. 18 00:00:49,840 --> 00:00:53,720 We're going to have to try to see how can we square these two, 19 00:00:53,840 --> 00:00:56,240 what seem like different perspectives, both within 20 00:00:56,240 --> 00:00:58,800 Picchio's, so I'm excited to jump right in. 21 00:00:59,080 --> 00:01:02,840 This episode is sponsored the ela nishmus Mai Obama henyarilla 22 00:01:02,920 --> 00:01:05,360 bas Eliezer. Anybody who has any thoughts, 23 00:01:05,360 --> 00:01:08,880 any comments, any cargos and ideas, please reach out. 24 00:01:08,880 --> 00:01:11,080 We'd love to hear from you. Yeah, and a quick reminder that 25 00:01:11,080 --> 00:01:12,320 we have our quiet WhatsApp group. 26 00:01:12,320 --> 00:01:14,120 The link is in the show notes there as well, where we have 27 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,200 some bonus content, some special projects coming up. 28 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,680 Those are all available exclusively to our WhatsApp 29 00:01:18,680 --> 00:01:20,720 group members. So I'm Yakko Wolf. 30 00:01:21,000 --> 00:01:23,120 I'm Sri Goldstein. And this is starting. 31 00:01:38,200 --> 00:01:40,680 So we're discussing the Mishnah in Parikh Daal and Mishnah Yudh 32 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,600 Rabbi Mayor Omer, having in mind the ASIC Vasopa Torah. 33 00:01:44,080 --> 00:01:46,400 And the first question that really jumps out of anyone 34 00:01:46,400 --> 00:01:50,240 reading this Mishnah is it seems, so disconnected from 35 00:01:50,240 --> 00:01:52,400 reality. We know that work is such a big 36 00:01:52,400 --> 00:01:55,000 part of people's lives, and really the only options are are 37 00:01:55,000 --> 00:01:58,560 you working full time or full time plus full nights and full 38 00:01:58,560 --> 00:02:01,320 weekends or not? So work is such a big part of 39 00:02:01,320 --> 00:02:02,760 people's lives, it takes up so much time. 40 00:02:02,920 --> 00:02:05,960 So how do we approach this Mishnah which says you're really 41 00:02:05,960 --> 00:02:07,080 not supposed to be working so much? 42 00:02:07,080 --> 00:02:09,520 That's the very simple reading. And the first question I want to 43 00:02:09,520 --> 00:02:12,240 ask you or to see is, do you know any individuals who are in 44 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:15,840 our age or our stage of life who have family, who actually live 45 00:02:15,840 --> 00:02:19,040 this Mishnah and don't have to just work full time or full time 46 00:02:19,040 --> 00:02:23,320 plus plus or two or three jobs? Taking it objectively, no. 47 00:02:24,080 --> 00:02:26,520 If I If I do and you're one of my friends, reach out. 48 00:02:27,120 --> 00:02:28,480 Yeah. So this is a big, big challenge, 49 00:02:28,480 --> 00:02:31,720 and I just really want to understand how this Mishnah 50 00:02:31,720 --> 00:02:34,000 plays into our current reality. And we're going to get to that 51 00:02:34,120 --> 00:02:36,560 in a few moments. But before we do, I I want to 52 00:02:36,560 --> 00:02:38,000 lay an outline of what we're going to do. 53 00:02:38,120 --> 00:02:39,800 The first thing that we're going to do is we're going to see him 54 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:43,120 a locus between Durham Khal and the Rambam and how they quote 55 00:02:43,240 --> 00:02:45,360 and use this Mishnah in different context. 56 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:47,600 The second thing we're going to do is we're going to focus on 57 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:50,560 Rabbi Mayer and who he was and some of his opinions in other 58 00:02:50,560 --> 00:02:52,840 places and how that might influence our understanding of 59 00:02:52,840 --> 00:02:54,360 this Mishnah. And the third thing that we're 60 00:02:54,360 --> 00:02:58,880 going to do is to see Rubena Yone's approach and see how he 61 00:02:58,880 --> 00:03:01,640 connects this to a Kumar and Brachos, which actually really 62 00:03:01,640 --> 00:03:04,680 gets back to the very first question of why it's so hard to 63 00:03:04,680 --> 00:03:06,520 actually live this Mishnah in reality. 64 00:03:07,240 --> 00:03:09,720 So the first thing is the Ramphal versus the Ramba. 65 00:03:09,920 --> 00:03:13,160 Now the Ramphal in Missilesi Sharp in Parakeet, he talks 66 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:17,520 about things that prevent a person from reaching zeros, the 67 00:03:17,520 --> 00:03:20,040 beginning chapters, their own causes. 68 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:23,480 The most important Meda of being Eva Hashem is the heroes being 69 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:26,400 careful and cautious and self aware of what your 70 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,320 responsibilities are and how you're performing in doing those 71 00:03:29,320 --> 00:03:31,480 responsibilities and living those values that you're 72 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:33,520 supposed to be living up to. And so he says that that's a 73 00:03:33,520 --> 00:03:35,120 very, very important fundamental Meda. 74 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:37,240 That's the very basics of being Eva Hashem. 75 00:03:37,440 --> 00:03:38,760 And he also goes into the negative. 76 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:42,280 What things prevent the person from having this Meda of as the 77 00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:45,200 heroes? And in Parek hey he writes as 78 00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,080 follows. Kinehatipo Vahatirda being so 79 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:52,440 busy and and distracted. Pardibarnome Lamala Kibiyosa 80 00:03:52,440 --> 00:03:57,800 Adam Tarudu Binyanne Olamo Hiney Makshavosa Asuros Bizike Hamasa 81 00:03:57,800 --> 00:04:00,800 Asher Alayhem. When a person is mind is 82 00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:04,640 preoccupied with his inyani Olam haze, his work and other things. 83 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,040 His thoughts are asurus bizike Amaka. 84 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:08,760 They're Hamasa. They are handcuffed. 85 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:13,800 He is chained to this pattern of thinking about his business, the 86 00:04:13,840 --> 00:04:17,519 EF Sharlaim Latte Lev El Hamas and that restricts him from 87 00:04:17,519 --> 00:04:22,520 thinking clearly and deeply about his service of Kurdish 88 00:04:22,520 --> 00:04:25,800 Bahu, the Hakamai Malema Shalom Bureau Otamze. 89 00:04:26,280 --> 00:04:28,840 Hazal knew this phenomenon that people who are so busy with 90 00:04:28,840 --> 00:04:32,080 their work and so involved in their business, they knew this 91 00:04:32,200 --> 00:04:36,320 and therefore Hazal say and Otos Parekhdalid have been my basic 92 00:04:36,520 --> 00:04:40,120 vasoke Batora. So this mission according to 93 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:42,880 Kyle, is a response to the phenomenon where people get so 94 00:04:42,880 --> 00:04:45,600 involved in the work that it distracts them from votus hashem 95 00:04:45,880 --> 00:04:48,160 and therefore a person is supposed to minimize the amount 96 00:04:48,160 --> 00:04:51,600 he's working and focus on Torah. Torah is obviously the most 97 00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:55,040 positive source of zeros, as the Mr. Sharman mentioned in the 98 00:04:55,040 --> 00:04:57,080 previous chapters. And so you're supposed to lean 99 00:04:57,080 --> 00:04:59,920 in the on the positive distance yourself from the negative and 100 00:04:59,920 --> 00:05:03,560 that's how you live a cohesive life of a Hashem of zeros. 101 00:05:03,920 --> 00:05:08,440 And then he continues, Kenya ASIC Muhahula Adam let's A 102 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:12,280 person needs to work in order to have sustenance, in order to 103 00:05:12,280 --> 00:05:13,880 live, in order to not die of starvation. 104 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:20,760 You don't need to work so much. You can work enough to live a 105 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,560 simple life and therefore you'll have more headspace and more 106 00:05:24,560 --> 00:05:27,560 availability to focus on. And then he throws in a very 107 00:05:27,560 --> 00:05:31,320 fascinating nugget at the end. All came to Stavinu Likvoi Itim 108 00:05:31,320 --> 00:05:33,960 Latora. So interestingly he points out 109 00:05:33,960 --> 00:05:37,400 that the practical way to have such a framework in your life is 110 00:05:37,400 --> 00:05:39,680 to be Covia. Itim Latora Rehearsh also makes 111 00:05:39,680 --> 00:05:41,280 a similar comment. We're not going to get into that 112 00:05:41,280 --> 00:05:43,400 right now, but that's a very interesting point he throws in 113 00:05:43,400 --> 00:05:45,240 there as well. Now, one thing that really 114 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:48,480 struck me at this Missiles to Charm is the fact that it seems 115 00:05:48,480 --> 00:05:52,520 to echo a very real phenomenon that we might see that people 116 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:57,600 get so busy and so involved and it becomes such a force in their 117 00:05:57,600 --> 00:06:01,280 life that sometimes it can crowd out their Torah and the 118 00:06:01,280 --> 00:06:02,840 ruchnias. Sometimes I think about the fact 119 00:06:02,840 --> 00:06:05,680 that we say and tell him Ma Hafti saw saka call iomisi Kasi, 120 00:06:05,800 --> 00:06:08,440 that when a person really loves Torah, he always wants to talk 121 00:06:08,440 --> 00:06:10,360 about Torah. And if you see people schmoozing 122 00:06:10,360 --> 00:06:13,320 on Shabbos or just that social events often times work is their 123 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:15,480 topic of conversation. So on the one hand, their own 124 00:06:15,480 --> 00:06:19,040 call definitely seems to be very fitting to a reality that we can 125 00:06:19,040 --> 00:06:21,520 see on the ground. On the other hand, what comes 126 00:06:21,520 --> 00:06:23,600 out is that the central part of our life which takes up so much 127 00:06:23,600 --> 00:06:27,360 of our time and energy, is really all counterproductive to 128 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,880 our service of Kurdish borough. It's all a hindrance. 129 00:06:29,880 --> 00:06:32,160 It's all an obstacle to what we're really supposed to be 130 00:06:32,160 --> 00:06:34,000 doing in our life. And that bothered me a lot. 131 00:06:34,280 --> 00:06:36,760 Then I noticed that the Ramam actually phrases things very 132 00:06:36,760 --> 00:06:38,840 differently. The Ramam is actually found not 133 00:06:38,840 --> 00:06:40,880 here in Pirkievos or not on the out of Kazaka. 134 00:06:41,080 --> 00:06:44,120 It's found in the parish and Mish Nios on San Hedren, where 135 00:06:44,120 --> 00:06:46,800 the Mishnah famously says that a Misaki Pokubia, someone who 136 00:06:46,800 --> 00:06:50,480 gambles, is pasolidos. And there are two reasons given 137 00:06:50,480 --> 00:06:52,840 in the mission and the Gomorrah whether this has to do with the 138 00:06:52,840 --> 00:06:56,080 idea of a smachta, illegal obtaining of money, a form of 139 00:06:56,080 --> 00:06:58,880 gezel, or whether it has to do with the fact that a person who 140 00:06:58,880 --> 00:07:02,480 is gambling all day is not Osek bishuvosa ullum. 141 00:07:02,480 --> 00:07:05,600 He's not involved in developing society, not involved in 142 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:08,440 developing the world. So I want to read the Rambam, He 143 00:07:08,440 --> 00:07:11,600 says as follows. The Sodhu Bitaratenu is a 144 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,200 fundamental principle in our Torah. 145 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:18,520 She in roila Adamahasikis asas ella beechad mishnay dwarp. 146 00:07:18,760 --> 00:07:22,800 There are only two legitimate things that a person should be 147 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:24,560 focusing on in their time in El Hazette. 148 00:07:25,120 --> 00:07:29,440 Oh Beech hochma la hash Limbaugh as osmo either hochma which is 149 00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:32,200 probably referenced to Talmotora to make him a better, more 150 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,280 spiritually refined person. The second possible legitimate 151 00:07:36,280 --> 00:07:39,680 project that a person could be focused on is work business in 152 00:07:39,680 --> 00:07:43,560 order to be Miyashe Vesaola. And then he goes on and says the 153 00:07:43,560 --> 00:07:47,840 Roy Limite Bizet Ullah Harbos Baris shown, the latter one 154 00:07:47,840 --> 00:07:50,640 should be minimized and the former should be prioritized 155 00:07:50,920 --> 00:07:54,560 Kimosha Umru, Havimaid ASIC, the Asok Batora. 156 00:07:55,000 --> 00:07:56,480 So here we have something very, very different. 157 00:07:56,560 --> 00:07:59,520 The Ramam says that there are two very, very important things 158 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,040 that we're supposed to be involved in, #1 is working, 159 00:08:03,080 --> 00:08:06,400 which is Yeshua Sholam, and #2 is Torah, which is spiritual 160 00:08:06,400 --> 00:08:09,040 growth and spiritual refinement. And those are both the two 161 00:08:09,240 --> 00:08:11,560 fundamental pillars that we're supposed to be focused on. 162 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:15,720 Between the two, the Ramam says the folks is supposed to be on 163 00:08:15,920 --> 00:08:19,000 Torah and that should take the most important place. 164 00:08:19,160 --> 00:08:23,160 But the other thing is not a a necessary evil like the Ramham 165 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,840 have you believe. It's just a secondary important 166 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:28,840 value that we have. And what this seems to come out 167 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,720 is that according to the Rambam, we know we learned last week 168 00:08:31,840 --> 00:08:34,640 Yafa Talmotora in Der Karets. There are these two parts that 169 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:38,039 are supposed to play a part in our life and the Ramam says, 170 00:08:39,200 --> 00:08:42,320 well you know, from that mission it's not immediately clear which 171 00:08:42,320 --> 00:08:44,480 one is more important. And it's interesting that the 172 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:47,440 ballet at Tosos both in Yuma and Daf Peh hey and in Brachos and 173 00:08:47,440 --> 00:08:50,120 Daf Lam and hey have this discussion about when you have 174 00:08:50,120 --> 00:08:52,280 the lashon of Yaffa blank in blank. 175 00:08:52,440 --> 00:08:54,680 Is that mean that the 1st is more important or the 2nd is 176 00:08:54,680 --> 00:08:56,440 more important. And there's even opinion which 177 00:08:56,440 --> 00:08:58,800 seems to indicate that work is more important and many a hard 178 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:00,520 enough struggle to understand what that could even mean. 179 00:09:00,520 --> 00:09:02,880 The Nefesha Haim I believe in others. 180 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:05,800 OK put that aside. The Ramam says that these two 181 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,520 things are both important, which we talked about last week, Yaffa 182 00:09:08,520 --> 00:09:11,080 Tamatar in there Earth. But the relationship between 183 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:14,360 these two important values is that Torah is #1 and work and 184 00:09:14,360 --> 00:09:19,040 you use all of our number two and we can take this and broaden 185 00:09:19,040 --> 00:09:21,760 this out a little bit to look at the Ram Khal in general and the 186 00:09:21,760 --> 00:09:23,840 Ram Khal in general. So the Ram Khal in general we 187 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:26,480 spoke about last week and he makes it very, very clear in the 188 00:09:26,480 --> 00:09:29,920 missiles a charm, that he has what you very, so beautifully 189 00:09:29,920 --> 00:09:33,280 described as an Ulam Haba Haskafa, that Ulum haze is 190 00:09:33,280 --> 00:09:37,720 really just a way to prepare ourselves for Ulum Haba and 191 00:09:37,720 --> 00:09:42,120 therefore all things which are needs to survive and thrive and 192 00:09:42,120 --> 00:09:44,640 ulhas that are really not fundamental or really not 193 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:47,600 essential to our Boris Hashem. Everything that really is truly 194 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:51,320 important is things that prepare us for Ulan Haba and everything 195 00:09:51,320 --> 00:09:52,920 that's Ulhas that is just a Khatimse. 196 00:09:53,040 --> 00:09:57,640 It's just a means to the ends and therefore that allows and 197 00:09:57,640 --> 00:10:00,760 explains this approach that working is a necessary evil. 198 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:04,960 But the Rambam in other places indicates that he has the other 199 00:10:05,040 --> 00:10:08,280 approach, the approach that you attributed to rehearsh and to 200 00:10:08,280 --> 00:10:12,640 Solovacek SO1 Beautiful example where the Rambam formulates this 201 00:10:12,800 --> 00:10:14,840 is a Hilka Shabbos where he talks about the Halaka. 202 00:10:15,200 --> 00:10:18,160 The Pikuagna fish is Dorca Shabbos, and the Halaka is that. 203 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,800 Not only is Pikuagna fish Dorca Shabbos, but if there's a 204 00:10:21,040 --> 00:10:26,120 situation it's like a Trila for Godoli to have that mitzvah of 205 00:10:26,120 --> 00:10:29,280 saving a life on Shabbos. And he explains the Ashkovic 206 00:10:29,280 --> 00:10:31,560 idea which stands behind this halacha as follows. 207 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:34,720 Halla Mata you learn, says the Rambam in Hoka Shabba's Perik 208 00:10:34,760 --> 00:10:38,600 Bayes halacha, gimmel Shaheen mishpeteha Torah, Nikama BA 209 00:10:38,600 --> 00:10:41,000 Olam. The rules and laws of the Torah 210 00:10:41,000 --> 00:10:44,280 are not some sort of angry vengeance in the world, Ella 211 00:10:44,280 --> 00:10:46,480 rahamim vechassed vishalamba ullam. 212 00:10:46,480 --> 00:10:49,960 Rather, they're a source of mercy and kindness and peace in 213 00:10:49,960 --> 00:10:52,120 the world. So you see from this halacha 214 00:10:52,120 --> 00:10:56,560 that prioritizes life over Shabbos that the whole idea of 215 00:10:56,560 --> 00:11:00,320 Torah is to be a source of bracha and khasset and goodness 216 00:11:00,320 --> 00:11:03,480 and light in this world. In Olmhazak, which would track 217 00:11:03,480 --> 00:11:06,440 with what we said before, that the Rahman views working as a 218 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,120 important part of our religious life. 219 00:11:08,440 --> 00:11:10,960 It takes a backseat to Torah, but it's still an important part 220 00:11:10,960 --> 00:11:14,080 of who we are as Abdul Hashem. Fantastic there's there's so 221 00:11:14,080 --> 00:11:16,920 much so much to say here just about Durham Kao. 222 00:11:17,360 --> 00:11:20,920 As much as the Rum Kao and Sharm presents that the ultimate goal 223 00:11:21,120 --> 00:11:25,560 is to is to get yourself to Orlum Haba and then the Tanu 224 00:11:25,560 --> 00:11:27,280 gate. Orlum Hatwell think it's 225 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,120 important to add, let's say a little bit of perspective or 226 00:11:30,120 --> 00:11:32,840 deepen that a little bit from Durham in their Hashem. 227 00:11:33,720 --> 00:11:37,600 The second Parekh, I think of the first shark in Derek Hashem 228 00:11:37,920 --> 00:11:41,200 the Ram Khal talks about the essential nature of Agashwar, 229 00:11:41,200 --> 00:11:45,800 who as native Hashem as a perfect being wants to give as 230 00:11:45,800 --> 00:11:47,920 much good as possible. And the entire system of 231 00:11:47,920 --> 00:11:54,040 Ullahaba is really just Hashem's opportunity to actualize this 232 00:11:54,080 --> 00:11:58,720 essence of goodness and give us the the best goodness possible. 233 00:11:59,480 --> 00:12:02,600 So the this orientation of trying to get to Lam Haba is not 234 00:12:02,600 --> 00:12:06,000 just almost like a spiritual hedonism, we're just trying to 235 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,520 get gain as much pleasure and enjoyment as possible. 236 00:12:08,520 --> 00:12:12,480 But it's really in an expression of Pakashvarov, whose ultimate 237 00:12:13,200 --> 00:12:17,560 goodness is his positive nature as a as an altruist, as as a 238 00:12:17,560 --> 00:12:19,880 native. That's that's really where it's 239 00:12:19,920 --> 00:12:21,440 sourced. That's really this where it 240 00:12:21,440 --> 00:12:24,480 comes from through Macao. When it comes to the round bound 241 00:12:25,000 --> 00:12:29,560 there there's so many just maybe add add a little bit to the 242 00:12:29,560 --> 00:12:32,760 McCarthy quoted one. I think really beautiful 243 00:12:32,760 --> 00:12:37,080 formulation comes actually from the Rambam's son Rambam has a 244 00:12:37,400 --> 00:12:40,280 has a Paris Alatora via we have pieces of the Paris Alatora. 245 00:12:40,640 --> 00:12:44,120 So Schmotzi attest valve to the puzzle of attempt to leave 246 00:12:44,120 --> 00:12:48,800 Mamlakhas Kohanin to goy Kadosh, the Rambam quotes his father 247 00:12:49,120 --> 00:12:52,720 saying following he says Parish Mamlakhas Kohanin Shakoen, Shell 248 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:57,680 Koleda Huhamanig Chua neph. Bachela vad Doug Mashela, The 249 00:12:58,000 --> 00:13:00,880 Cohane of every community, of every kind, of every Asian, 250 00:13:01,320 --> 00:13:03,920 meant to be its leader. He's the most honorable 251 00:13:03,920 --> 00:13:07,280 representation, the model for those for that congregation, for 252 00:13:07,280 --> 00:13:10,120 that group, Shanchi hai, the yeku bikvosa. 253 00:13:10,760 --> 00:13:13,040 People of that group should follow that, that leader, that 254 00:13:13,040 --> 00:13:15,760 role model, the M2 said there at Hayasha Al Yado. 255 00:13:16,840 --> 00:13:19,640 So what's this idea of Kai Yisrael being on Lehas Kohanim 256 00:13:20,160 --> 00:13:22,880 yamarti? You attend Vishmiras torasi 257 00:13:23,040 --> 00:13:29,560 manhige haulam hayas shalaham alayhem kiafasa Cohen El adazo 258 00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:33,000 through Claudia Israel. Following the Torah you'll be 259 00:13:33,000 --> 00:13:36,040 the leaders to the other nations of the world, having this 260 00:13:36,040 --> 00:13:41,080 relationship of a Cohen to his group, to his people yell. 261 00:13:42,560 --> 00:13:45,400 The nations of the world will follow in your footsteps, 262 00:13:47,680 --> 00:13:51,800 they'll imitate your actions and they'll do what you do. 263 00:13:52,160 --> 00:13:55,800 Zeh Tom Shakey Balti. The perish zeh mean ABBA 264 00:13:55,800 --> 00:13:58,120 marizal. This is the explanation for this 265 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,640 that I got from my father. So Rahman Ramam, quoting the 266 00:14:01,640 --> 00:14:04,840 Ramam himself says that the really the mission statement of 267 00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:07,160 Claudius Rahm. This is in the this is in the 268 00:14:07,160 --> 00:14:13,240 The introduction to my attend to you says I'm giving you the 269 00:14:13,240 --> 00:14:15,400 story. I'm appointing Claire Israel as 270 00:14:15,400 --> 00:14:19,600 my model nation in order to help the nations of the world learn 271 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:21,360 what they're supposed to be doing. 272 00:14:21,800 --> 00:14:24,240 I think dovetails beautifully with something that our first 273 00:14:24,240 --> 00:14:26,040 says. There's definitely a special 274 00:14:26,040 --> 00:14:28,440 relationship that may as well have with Karish Barku. 275 00:14:28,760 --> 00:14:31,440 But in terms of our purpose, in terms of our role, we actually 276 00:14:31,440 --> 00:14:34,760 to a certain extent we almost like serve the Musolam in that 277 00:14:34,760 --> 00:14:36,640 we serve as their role models, right. 278 00:14:36,640 --> 00:14:38,480 The same way a leader serves his people. 279 00:14:38,720 --> 00:14:42,120 We as the leaders of humanity to a certain extent serve the 280 00:14:42,120 --> 00:14:46,800 Musolam in this role as the the role models as the exemplars of 281 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:49,520 the Derek Hashem. So again, it's a very olam haza 282 00:14:49,680 --> 00:14:52,440 focused orientation and understanding of what Tori and 283 00:14:52,440 --> 00:14:54,200 mitzvahs are meant to be accomplishing really what what 284 00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:59,080 we exist four that that's why I guess one additional point of my 285 00:14:59,080 --> 00:15:01,520 welcome within the round bun. Yeah, thanks for sharing those 286 00:15:01,520 --> 00:15:03,320 additional insights. And really there are so many my 287 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,040 Mccullos and there are round bums all over the place and we 288 00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:07,760 are limited in our format here on the podcast. 289 00:15:07,920 --> 00:15:10,400 I invite all listeners who want to dive even deeper to these 290 00:15:10,400 --> 00:15:12,920 issues to reach out, and we can send even more Mccorros for 291 00:15:12,920 --> 00:15:14,760 those who are interested in studying this further. 292 00:15:15,360 --> 00:15:17,640 I I think it is important to say that there is the other side of 293 00:15:17,640 --> 00:15:20,680 the David Hall Hayao Maba just to make sure that we mention I 294 00:15:20,680 --> 00:15:22,640 think the round bombs perspective is a little is a 295 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:25,280 little bit more nuanced. If you look in let's say you 296 00:15:25,280 --> 00:15:28,720 started Dala at the very end of the chapter the Ramon based on 297 00:15:28,720 --> 00:15:32,400 Dalin talks about his his understanding of how the world 298 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:34,240 works. So the spheres and everything 299 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:36,640 that's going on there must become my serratious. 300 00:15:37,000 --> 00:15:39,520 At the very end of that Parek the Ramon talks about the 301 00:15:39,520 --> 00:15:41,600 importance of learning tour within this framework. 302 00:15:41,640 --> 00:15:46,960 What he says there is that even though even though he's all 303 00:15:46,960 --> 00:15:52,200 called Havaya and Gomorrah and understand mitzvahs in a deep 304 00:15:52,200 --> 00:15:56,440 way called a Dover cotton as opposed to which is the Rambam 305 00:15:56,440 --> 00:15:58,160 says it's still important for those things to come. 306 00:15:58,160 --> 00:16:07,040 First, why the old Shane Atova Hagadola? 307 00:16:07,360 --> 00:16:11,520 So far this sounds very much in line with the. 308 00:16:12,960 --> 00:16:16,920 Then he adds on this final phrase, Kadalinho kayeholam 309 00:16:16,920 --> 00:16:19,280 haba. The Rambam says on the one hand, 310 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:21,560 we're looking to facilitate, you should have Olam, you should 311 00:16:21,640 --> 00:16:23,560 have that. But on the other hand, with this 312 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,000 goal of Kadalinho, kayeholam haba. 313 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:28,480 So the Rambam seems to almost like play both sides of the 314 00:16:28,480 --> 00:16:30,520 court, at least not Martin Macomb. 315 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:33,840 So it's important to see as much as you can in terms of Martin 316 00:16:33,840 --> 00:16:36,280 McCombs and try to build a cohesive picture. 317 00:16:37,400 --> 00:16:39,920 The second thing that we're going to focus on here is the 318 00:16:39,920 --> 00:16:41,720 author of this mission, which is Robbie Mayor. 319 00:16:42,000 --> 00:16:44,840 Now if you look at other places, Robbie Mayor is oftentimes 320 00:16:44,840 --> 00:16:48,440 quoted as having a very Torah centric stance on different 321 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,720 issues. The most famous example is the 322 00:16:50,720 --> 00:16:52,680 very end of Kedushin where there's a statement from Rabin 323 00:16:52,680 --> 00:16:56,000 Horai who says that I'm not teaching my son any trade mania 324 00:16:56,000 --> 00:17:00,480 Hani as called uma shivalam, but any mammatus beni ella Torah. 325 00:17:00,480 --> 00:17:02,200 I'm only going to teach my son Torah. 326 00:17:02,480 --> 00:17:05,680 Now many according understand that Rabin Horai rejects the 327 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,160 gamar and kedushin that we discussed at length in the first 328 00:17:09,160 --> 00:17:13,359 episode about which says, which seems to say clearly the brace 329 00:17:13,359 --> 00:17:14,839 out. There's an obligation of a 330 00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:18,640 father to teach his son a trade based on a Puskin Kohala's rehai 331 00:17:18,640 --> 00:17:21,359 and Emisha Sharahata. So a lot of the aquarium is 332 00:17:21,359 --> 00:17:25,079 Sabir Halaha and submission VOB de gross Moshe, the Hassam Sofr. 333 00:17:25,079 --> 00:17:27,119 They all say the Rabinarai disagrees. 334 00:17:27,200 --> 00:17:28,920 You don't have to teach your son a trade. 335 00:17:29,080 --> 00:17:31,360 You can teach your son just Torah. 336 00:17:32,000 --> 00:17:35,080 Now the Gemara in Irvin and other places says the Rabinorai 337 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,040 is Rabbi Mayor. So you see that Rabin mayor has 338 00:17:38,040 --> 00:17:40,960 this approach which says that Torah is the most important 339 00:17:40,960 --> 00:17:44,160 thing and therefore Torah can even come at the expense of 340 00:17:44,240 --> 00:17:47,720 being and you can focus only on Torah and you don't need to 341 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:52,280 teach your son a Parnassa. Now we just mentioned that there 342 00:17:52,280 --> 00:17:55,720 might be a mahalkas between different tanam. 343 00:17:55,840 --> 00:18:02,160 As to the where the Stam Tanah and says you have teachers on a 344 00:18:02,160 --> 00:18:06,320 trade and the Khan of Ruby? No Roy Ruby Meyer says you don't 345 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,240 have teachers on a trade. Now we mentioned two weeks ago 346 00:18:09,240 --> 00:18:11,960 there's a mission which says Ejoba Samalaka which might very 347 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:15,400 well be based on the same idea of Reiki and Emisha Ashura 348 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,000 Hafta. So it could be that there are 349 00:18:17,000 --> 00:18:19,440 two different opinions. One opinion says that work is 350 00:18:19,440 --> 00:18:21,880 the central part of life and our father should teach us on an 351 00:18:21,880 --> 00:18:25,840 illness and it's a central part of the brisk of the bar who is 352 00:18:25,840 --> 00:18:28,360 supposed to love what you do and appreciate what you do as part 353 00:18:28,360 --> 00:18:31,160 of who you are, as Nevada Hashem Mary Mayor might disagree. 354 00:18:31,160 --> 00:18:34,040 He says that a person should ideally only be focused on Torah 355 00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:36,880 and not on any otherworldly pursuits. 356 00:18:36,880 --> 00:18:39,880 That's the ideal that Ravi Mayor and Ravi Norai seem to express. 357 00:18:40,160 --> 00:18:43,520 Now, there are two things that we need to keep in mind here. 358 00:18:43,520 --> 00:18:46,160 Number one is that it's very interesting that nowadays we 359 00:18:46,160 --> 00:18:49,400 also see that there are comedians and swaths of Torah 360 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:51,640 jewelry who have this Torah centric approach. 361 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,040 And there are other swaths of Torah jewelry which have a more 362 00:18:54,200 --> 00:18:58,360 broad and approach to different parts of life and society and 363 00:18:58,360 --> 00:19:01,080 about us, Hashem. Just one quick anecdote that I 364 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,360 heard from my Rebbe in Bayeri here in Karen Biavna, who he 365 00:19:04,360 --> 00:19:06,640 learned in Panovich. And he says that back in the day 366 00:19:06,640 --> 00:19:09,160 he was once walking in the streets of Nabrok and he heard 367 00:19:09,320 --> 00:19:13,120 two kids getting into an argument and one kid cursed at 368 00:19:13,120 --> 00:19:14,760 the other kid. Howdy, curse at the other kid, 369 00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:18,800 he said, you are an Amaretz. And the kid got so insulted he 370 00:19:18,800 --> 00:19:22,440 ran away in tears that he was cursed to this awful fate of 371 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,200 being an Amaretz. Now if you take Ramirez's 372 00:19:25,200 --> 00:19:27,480 approach, that seems to be true. And there's actually another 373 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:29,440 statement where Ray Mayor, who says that if you marry off your 374 00:19:29,440 --> 00:19:32,160 downtime and Mrs. It's like you're stuffing her in front of 375 00:19:32,160 --> 00:19:34,640 a lion. That's the Gabbar in Psalm test. 376 00:19:34,840 --> 00:19:36,280 Now what exactly that Gabbar means? 377 00:19:36,320 --> 00:19:39,440 OK, not for now, but there is such an approach which says that 378 00:19:39,440 --> 00:19:43,200 Torah is the most important thing for a Jew to focus on and 379 00:19:43,200 --> 00:19:46,240 everything else is really very, very secondary or not nearly as 380 00:19:46,240 --> 00:19:48,720 important. Whereas it could be that already 381 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,160 back in the Mishnah we have two opinions and two approaches 382 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:54,160 Animaholkas and that could be the underpinnings of what we 383 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:55,840 have today. The different approaches within 384 00:19:55,840 --> 00:19:59,200 the Torah world to Torah versus work Torah versus other parts of 385 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,720 Oas Hashem could be rooted all the way back in the times of the 386 00:20:03,000 --> 00:20:05,280 Mishnah. The second thing to keep in mind 387 00:20:05,280 --> 00:20:08,400 here is that even within Rabin Meyer there are some Arma komas 388 00:20:08,400 --> 00:20:11,320 that need to be worked out. So for example Ray Meyer himself 389 00:20:11,320 --> 00:20:15,240 says in Kedushin that Lola Milami, Adamus, Beno, umnas 390 00:20:15,240 --> 00:20:17,440 Kalab and Akia. So he doesn't say don't. 391 00:20:17,520 --> 00:20:20,120 Teach your son any trade, he says you teach him a soft and 392 00:20:20,120 --> 00:20:22,400 easy trade. The other thing to keep in mind 393 00:20:22,440 --> 00:20:25,120 is that our mayor himself had a job, the Gomar and Aravin says 394 00:20:25,120 --> 00:20:29,040 he was a sofr, A sofr stump. Going back to that Gomar and 395 00:20:29,040 --> 00:20:30,920 Kedushin. The example of Omnus Kalavin 396 00:20:30,920 --> 00:20:33,880 IKEA is a Mahda de Talmusa, which is someone who does 397 00:20:33,880 --> 00:20:35,520 needlework. So that's the ideal profession 398 00:20:35,520 --> 00:20:38,720 to rugby Mayor and Remair himself was a sofa Stam, not a 399 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:40,840 needle worker. So all these things need to be 400 00:20:40,840 --> 00:20:42,400 worked out. But in general, you do see 401 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:45,640 Remair in a bunch of places being Torah centric in his 402 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,360 Ashkova and in his approach. And it could be. 403 00:20:47,360 --> 00:20:50,680 That's what's driving the mission of my basic Masoka 404 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:52,480 Torah. And it could be that other 405 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,160 sources disagree and those might line up better with the mission 406 00:20:55,160 --> 00:20:57,800 of Jehovah Samacha. Love and appreciate work as a 407 00:20:57,800 --> 00:21:00,800 central part of your I. Don't think Potovich has a 408 00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:03,280 monopoly. I'm considering Amharids to be 409 00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:05,880 fairly derogatory. I would be pretty. 410 00:21:05,880 --> 00:21:08,680 I'm pretty insulted if somebody called me in al arts as well. 411 00:21:09,160 --> 00:21:12,000 And I did not have this quest to learn in Panovich Shiva. 412 00:21:12,680 --> 00:21:14,640 Nor do I have that the Torah centric. 413 00:21:14,680 --> 00:21:16,800 The Torah only Torah centric is not the right way to say it. 414 00:21:16,800 --> 00:21:21,120 To her only perspective within this this point about Ray Mayor, 415 00:21:21,120 --> 00:21:23,680 it's really interesting. I guess one of the questions 416 00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,400 they ask is whether Rabin Mayor was giving Hajraha in Khinar or 417 00:21:28,400 --> 00:21:30,080 Hashkafa. Was he saying that when it comes 418 00:21:30,080 --> 00:21:33,160 to teaching, a father should focus on teaching his children 419 00:21:33,160 --> 00:21:37,560 Torah only and and minimize the amount of time or cut out any 420 00:21:37,560 --> 00:21:41,680 sort of education towards a trade or NASA and the kid will 421 00:21:41,680 --> 00:21:43,640 have to figure that out later on on his own. 422 00:21:44,800 --> 00:21:48,360 Or if he was saying I think the only thing that really matters 423 00:21:48,360 --> 00:21:51,480 is Torah only and everything else should really be ignored or 424 00:21:51,480 --> 00:21:54,120 cancelled or or avoided as much as possible. 425 00:21:55,800 --> 00:21:57,960 Something which I think reinforces that that first 426 00:21:58,040 --> 00:22:01,280 perspective, that is a point. And the Gemara talks about her 427 00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,680 mayor being a super Stan and says that he would make a 428 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:07,240 certain amount of three seller a week. 429 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,560 Yeah, 3 seller a week. He would use one seller for a 430 00:22:10,640 --> 00:22:14,680 Chilistia for food and he would clothe himself with the another 431 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,360 seller. And then the third seller he 432 00:22:16,360 --> 00:22:19,400 would use to be Mafarney Sport used to support. 433 00:22:20,360 --> 00:22:23,680 So students asked him, Maggie. Yeah, Albanaha, Shayna, 434 00:22:23,680 --> 00:22:26,240 Tamanaha, Columbia. What's going to be with your 435 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:27,840 children? You're not putting aside any 436 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,600 money into a savings fund, the trust fund for your kids, but 437 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:31,960 how are your kids going to support themselves? 438 00:22:31,960 --> 00:22:33,040 Are they going to buy that apartment? 439 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:37,880 So he answered them. IMI Yuta Dikin Yellaham Parnasa. 440 00:22:37,880 --> 00:22:45,880 Mesa Shamis Bara Conti. The mayor says the mayor's 441 00:22:45,880 --> 00:22:49,120 response is it's not my responsibility to be to take 442 00:22:49,120 --> 00:22:51,360 care of my kids. It's if there's any given things 443 00:22:51,360 --> 00:22:53,080 to serve it, then I got a spark is going to take care of them. 444 00:22:53,400 --> 00:22:56,120 So that perspective would really fit very nicely with the mayor 445 00:22:56,120 --> 00:22:58,560 saying I I'm not going to take on the responsibility of 446 00:22:58,560 --> 00:23:00,080 teaching my children, my children to trade. 447 00:23:00,320 --> 00:23:03,360 They'll learn it when they're older and if if Hashem wants 448 00:23:03,360 --> 00:23:05,600 them to be supported, so then they'll be supported. 449 00:23:05,600 --> 00:23:07,040 That's not my job. That's not my focus. 450 00:23:07,280 --> 00:23:09,000 I'm just going to teach them till we're only it's not 451 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,960 necessarily, not not really giving Hadrafa and Hashkafa more 452 00:23:12,960 --> 00:23:16,280 generally saying that nobody should work, people should, 453 00:23:17,040 --> 00:23:19,000 should avoid working as much as possible. 454 00:23:19,160 --> 00:23:20,600 Yeah. Another interesting ride to that 455 00:23:20,680 --> 00:23:24,120 is a the SAT Merebi in Contra state role called Contra's 456 00:23:24,120 --> 00:23:26,040 Lushina Kodesh. It's printed in the back of Veil 457 00:23:26,040 --> 00:23:28,640 Moshe. He has a isode which he points 458 00:23:28,640 --> 00:23:31,280 out that when abrasive brings multiple items there's 459 00:23:31,280 --> 00:23:33,480 significance to the order which which the Bryce or the mission 460 00:23:33,480 --> 00:23:35,600 brings those items. So introduction on Contessa 461 00:23:35,600 --> 00:23:40,000 Madolf it says Tanner Abanan of Mulo will lift also. 462 00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:43,000 So first yeah Mila, then your opinion on Ben Ulamdo Torah. 463 00:23:43,120 --> 00:23:45,120 Ulasio Isha. So when he's young he goes to 464 00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:47,920 yeshiva, he learns Torah, then he marries him off, gets 465 00:23:47,920 --> 00:23:50,000 married. Ulamdo Umnus is after he's 466 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,680 married and he has the responsibility for his 467 00:23:51,680 --> 00:23:54,080 household. So then you Start learning a 468 00:23:54,080 --> 00:23:56,240 trade, not before that. So that also would go 469 00:23:56,360 --> 00:24:01,040 consistently with with what you were saying that maybe as a kid 470 00:24:01,440 --> 00:24:04,560 the focus completely on Torah and after the boy is married and 471 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:07,360 has responsibility for his home, only then should he be focusing 472 00:24:07,360 --> 00:24:10,680 on having a paranasa. Now we move on to our final 473 00:24:10,680 --> 00:24:13,120 section and I want to go back to the question that we mentioned 474 00:24:13,120 --> 00:24:16,360 in the beginning which is the Mishnah seems so disconnected 475 00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,920 from reality. People work so hard, they work 476 00:24:18,920 --> 00:24:20,600 multiple jobs, they work late hours. 477 00:24:20,720 --> 00:24:23,120 So what does it mean to be mimic basic vasok patara. 478 00:24:23,320 --> 00:24:25,600 So there are a few things that we could say about this, but I 479 00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:28,560 want to focus on rubina yona on the Mishnah and he says as 480 00:24:28,560 --> 00:24:31,200 follows just a few short words but important and a lot of depth 481 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,720 that we have to unpack here. Rubina Yona writes shatase 482 00:24:34,760 --> 00:24:39,600 malaktha arai vitorasa keva. Now where's that phrase from? 483 00:24:40,080 --> 00:24:43,840 So in the first pack of Perky Avos Shamai says asei toras Kava 484 00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,040 or keva. But he doesn't say that makka, 485 00:24:46,040 --> 00:24:47,200 right? That's not from there. 486 00:24:47,560 --> 00:24:49,920 This phrase is actually from a gomar and brachos on the flamin. 487 00:24:49,920 --> 00:24:52,840 Hey Ahmed base the sugya of Rashvi and Rabishmal, which 488 00:24:52,840 --> 00:24:54,640 we've discussed and he says as follows. 489 00:24:54,880 --> 00:25:01,360 Umm, Rabbi, Rabbi Light Bo Ray, Shiloh kadoras Hari shownim 490 00:25:01,560 --> 00:25:06,920 doras Hari shownim ASU tarasan keva molacht on a right, the 491 00:25:06,920 --> 00:25:09,720 zoo, the zoo, Niskayan biadam. So the earlier generations were 492 00:25:09,720 --> 00:25:11,000 so much greater than these generations. 493 00:25:11,000 --> 00:25:12,640 Why? Because they made their Torah 494 00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:17,000 keva and their malacha arai and both were niskaya biadam. 495 00:25:17,000 --> 00:25:21,960 Both were successful and sustained within their lives. 496 00:25:22,400 --> 00:25:24,960 Dorsach ronim shazu malakthan keva. 497 00:25:25,200 --> 00:25:30,040 The Tarasan Arai in the later generations says the Kamara flip 498 00:25:30,040 --> 00:25:33,320 the script, they made their malacha keva and their Torah 499 00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:36,000 arai, the zoo, the zoo Lotus Kamabiyadan. 500 00:25:36,000 --> 00:25:38,720 And neither one of them was successful, Not in the Torah and 501 00:25:38,720 --> 00:25:41,920 not in their malacca. And the most obvious question 502 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:44,200 that jumps out from this Gemara is, well, if they were so 503 00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:45,720 unsuccessful, so why do they do it? 504 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:50,000 If there's a proven successful model of Torah, Sakiva and 505 00:25:50,000 --> 00:25:53,400 Malaktharay, then why were those acronym going away from that 506 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:56,120 model? And I don't know if I have a 507 00:25:56,120 --> 00:25:58,880 great answer, but what I see from here is that it's very 508 00:25:58,880 --> 00:26:02,040 difficult practically to live this, the Mishnah, to live this 509 00:26:02,040 --> 00:26:05,240 idea, if you understand that Torres Keva laka, right. 510 00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,200 And in my basic but Torah are all along the same lines. 511 00:26:08,320 --> 00:26:11,040 So you see that even in times of the Gemara, they were pining for 512 00:26:11,040 --> 00:26:13,320 the olden days where those started showing they were able 513 00:26:13,320 --> 00:26:15,600 to really do this well. And even at times the Gemara, 514 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:19,520 they weren't really able to do it as the Mishnah suggested. 515 00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:26,200 So as they like to say, right? So if during times the Gemara 516 00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:30,880 this was a struggle to really have that ideal lifestyle and 517 00:26:30,880 --> 00:26:33,360 then Allah has come of Akama, what we have nowadays seems to 518 00:26:33,360 --> 00:26:35,480 express that challenge and difficulty as well. 519 00:26:36,080 --> 00:26:38,280 I will just say that it doesn't mean that we take this Mishnah 520 00:26:38,280 --> 00:26:40,880 and and throw it out. I think that it's important to 521 00:26:40,880 --> 00:26:44,280 use this Mishnah as a form of aspiration and a form of ideal 522 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,280 that we should never give up on and forget about each person. 523 00:26:47,280 --> 00:26:49,920 You know look wherever he is and wherever he's at, he should 524 00:26:49,920 --> 00:26:52,000 understand that there is this ideal which is very very 525 00:26:52,000 --> 00:26:53,240 difficult and very, very challenging. 526 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:56,720 But as much as possible to try to remember that it's an ideal 527 00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:59,800 and to try at certain places to live it as much as possible. 528 00:26:59,920 --> 00:27:02,080 What some of the how far should make a Duke on the Mishnah of 529 00:27:02,080 --> 00:27:05,440 having might be ASIC Meaning doesn't mean work a tiny bit. 530 00:27:05,520 --> 00:27:08,880 It means trim down, minimize your work as much as possible, 531 00:27:08,880 --> 00:27:11,360 even if it means only carving out little bits and pieces of 532 00:27:11,360 --> 00:27:14,280 time to be covariate and Matura to learn a little bit more as 533 00:27:14,280 --> 00:27:17,280 much as possible. So I think that we see from here 534 00:27:17,280 --> 00:27:19,880 very interestingly that this idea is a struggle that goes 535 00:27:19,880 --> 00:27:21,600 back hundreds and thousands of years. 536 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,040 But that being said, it should still be something that we have 537 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,560 in mind and try to will to wish to want to aspire to as much as 538 00:27:28,560 --> 00:27:31,680 possible and in little bits and pieces to try and implement it 539 00:27:31,680 --> 00:27:33,800 wherever we can. Yeah, I think I think one way of 540 00:27:33,800 --> 00:27:37,000 kind of presenting that is you could read this mission as an 541 00:27:37,000 --> 00:27:39,680 objective statement or a subjective statement if it's 542 00:27:39,760 --> 00:27:43,200 objective where like the Commission is telling us to only 543 00:27:43,200 --> 00:27:45,880 spend a couple of hours and on our work. 544 00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:47,920 So then it's hard to see how that's going to fit with our 545 00:27:47,920 --> 00:27:51,160 reality and it's hard to see how that fit with reality ever. 546 00:27:52,040 --> 00:27:54,400 Well we have, we have the Rambam telling us in the beginning of 547 00:27:55,320 --> 00:28:01,280 that the the ideal work week of of Newman is 3 hours on work and 548 00:28:01,280 --> 00:28:03,440 nine hours on learning. So it's it's hard to see how 549 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,640 that was ever the reality. Definitely when you when you 550 00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:08,960 hear the Rambam's description of his own work week, it doesn't 551 00:28:08,960 --> 00:28:12,280 sound like that. And I think if you take, if you 552 00:28:12,280 --> 00:28:16,920 take the mission subjectively as however much time that you need, 553 00:28:17,160 --> 00:28:21,480 however much time you're putting in for your needs, try to be 554 00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:25,440 memied that try to cut out a little bit of that time and and 555 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:28,640 hide that away or put that away for learning. 556 00:28:29,640 --> 00:28:32,640 So and that that entails making choices that that entail 557 00:28:32,640 --> 00:28:35,280 prioritizing. Do we really need the extra? 558 00:28:35,840 --> 00:28:38,960 Do I really need to put in the extra few hours that would make 559 00:28:38,960 --> 00:28:42,360 me the extra however much money? Or can I get by without that? 560 00:28:42,720 --> 00:28:45,600 I think this might be more of a challenge for freelancers, for 561 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:47,960 entrepreneurs who are setting their own schedules, and for 562 00:28:47,960 --> 00:28:51,400 people who are working for AS as employees. 563 00:28:52,560 --> 00:28:55,760 There's always this tension of do I really need to put in an 564 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:58,320 extra hour right now, or can I can I take an hour Seder? 565 00:28:58,840 --> 00:29:01,440 Do I really need a rush off to work or can I take some time 566 00:29:01,440 --> 00:29:03,320 first? Can I make a whatever it is to 567 00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,800 have the guidance of this mission of how they denied the 568 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:09,960 the, the basic and I think in the subjective sense it 569 00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:12,600 definitely can be applied and really should be applied to the 570 00:29:12,600 --> 00:29:14,920 current reality. That's a a great point and it 571 00:29:15,040 --> 00:29:16,520 really goes back into a number of you. 572 00:29:16,520 --> 00:29:18,800 So those and I think it leads on to another conversation which we 573 00:29:18,800 --> 00:29:22,320 don't have time for right now, which is that is work just there 574 00:29:22,320 --> 00:29:25,200 in order to feed your family. If so anything that's beyond 575 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,920 those means is extra and should be avoided. 576 00:29:28,160 --> 00:29:31,360 On the other hand, as we were saying, if it's part of your in 577 00:29:31,360 --> 00:29:35,320 life to Miyashi Olam to provide value to society in the world 578 00:29:35,320 --> 00:29:37,440 beyond us, so then there's a different way of thinking about 579 00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,280 things. That's the first point that you 580 00:29:39,560 --> 00:29:41,280 that you that comes out of what you're saying. 581 00:29:41,480 --> 00:29:43,680 The other thing is the whole financial planning aspect of it, 582 00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,280 which is not really our topic so much on Stark Tank, but I think 583 00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,280 it is something very interesting and deserves further 584 00:29:48,280 --> 00:29:51,360 exploration. I will just tease the audience 585 00:29:51,360 --> 00:29:53,920 and say that there are three mission Brewers in three 586 00:29:53,920 --> 00:29:56,680 different places that all imply different things as to what 587 00:29:56,680 --> 00:29:59,680 level of financial stability and backing a person should be 588 00:29:59,680 --> 00:30:01,960 striving for. A discussion for another day and 589 00:30:01,960 --> 00:30:04,280 how those 3 fit together. But it's a very fascinating 590 00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:06,920 topic that we're going to go into at some point down the line 591 00:30:06,920 --> 00:30:09,280 by Rotha Shem Rootsie. Do you have any other final 592 00:30:09,280 --> 00:30:11,040 party thoughts about our conversation today and about 593 00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:12,760 this Mishna? I'm going to throw something 594 00:30:12,880 --> 00:30:15,840 controversial. Maybe I'll get cancelled. 595 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:17,280 Yeah. Or react and we'll see. 596 00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:20,480 We'll see what you think about this you at some point you just 597 00:30:20,480 --> 00:30:25,200 said that there should always be an aspiration to make Torah the 598 00:30:25,200 --> 00:30:26,440 most important part of your life. 599 00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,640 Now you were saying in the context of this Mishnah, if you 600 00:30:28,640 --> 00:30:31,840 want to accept the teaching of the Mishnah as opposed to saying 601 00:30:31,840 --> 00:30:34,000 that this was only true 1000 years ago but it's no longer 602 00:30:34,000 --> 00:30:35,600 relevant. You're saying that if you want 603 00:30:35,600 --> 00:30:40,320 to accept the the teaching of the Mishnah and and prioritize 604 00:30:40,320 --> 00:30:43,120 learning and and downplay the importance of work. 605 00:30:43,120 --> 00:30:45,160 So there's there's an important message here there's important 606 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:48,080 value which I that I really accept fully agree with, but the 607 00:30:48,080 --> 00:30:50,680 the formulation of making Torah the most important part of your 608 00:30:50,680 --> 00:30:52,360 life. So I actually think that that I 609 00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:55,160 would disagree with that I would and I would say differently and 610 00:30:55,160 --> 00:30:58,720 I think that formulation fits very nicely with let's say the 611 00:30:59,040 --> 00:31:02,080 Torah only perspective which might be might be related to 612 00:31:02,080 --> 00:31:04,920 their own file presumably is more closely related to the 613 00:31:04,920 --> 00:31:06,720 Nefsheim, which I don't think we've spoken about so much. 614 00:31:06,720 --> 00:31:09,360 Maybe a couple weeks ago we spoke about, but I think the 615 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:13,360 formulation that I would prefer that I would, I would say 616 00:31:13,360 --> 00:31:16,920 myself, is not making Tobra the most important part of our life, 617 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:20,720 but Avodos Hashem and recognizing the breadth and the 618 00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:24,040 expansiveness of Avodos Hashem, an important part of that, a 619 00:31:24,040 --> 00:31:25,920 huge part of that is Talma Torah. 620 00:31:25,920 --> 00:31:28,600 But like we're saying, an important part of that is also 621 00:31:28,600 --> 00:31:30,200 the issue we show. Well, an important part of that 622 00:31:30,200 --> 00:31:31,960 is our families. An important part of that is our 623 00:31:31,960 --> 00:31:36,080 relationships, not the classic broad life that that would be a 624 00:31:36,080 --> 00:31:39,400 better fit with the, let's say, reverse or salvation. 625 00:31:40,000 --> 00:31:43,320 Solemn has a orientation as opposed to the Toro only 626 00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,600 perspective of making Torah, which let's let's take that in a 627 00:31:46,600 --> 00:31:49,760 narrow sense, tomatura being the most important part of of our 628 00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:50,840 life. That's not to downplay the 629 00:31:50,840 --> 00:31:54,480 importance of tomatura at all, but it is to recognize what's 630 00:31:54,480 --> 00:31:56,480 meant to be the top of that totem pole. 631 00:31:57,040 --> 00:31:59,200 Yeah, I certainly accept that formulation, and it's certainly 632 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:02,080 the way I was raised by my parents and my rebellion and my 633 00:32:02,080 --> 00:32:04,200 community, and I certainly try to live that way as well. 634 00:32:04,600 --> 00:32:08,480 There are people who make statements which seem to imply 635 00:32:08,480 --> 00:32:10,760 not that way. There's a a phrase which is 636 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,040 attributed to a certain Godel, or maybe it was said about a 637 00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:17,840 certain Godel that for him I'll I'll have Torah, I'll have Torah 638 00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:21,760 Torah. So it's a little bit humorous 639 00:32:21,760 --> 00:32:25,240 and it's a Zeo from the mission. So if you want to start changing 640 00:32:25,720 --> 00:32:28,240 marmacomas to Hazel, have fun. That's not what I do. 641 00:32:28,240 --> 00:32:30,280 So yeah, there, there. And the question then becomes, 642 00:32:30,280 --> 00:32:31,680 so is that a legitimate approach? 643 00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:32,640 Is that an illegitimate approach? 644 00:32:32,640 --> 00:32:34,360 It's certainly not the way I try to live my life. 645 00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,040 But I think that it understands marmacomas. 646 00:32:36,040 --> 00:32:38,520 We have to just be open to understanding how we might want 647 00:32:38,520 --> 00:32:40,760 to read these things and what they represent and and what 648 00:32:41,120 --> 00:32:44,320 different opinions might be legitimate within the literature 649 00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:46,280 of the vast literature of Hazel and what might be beyond the 650 00:32:46,280 --> 00:32:48,600 pale of what we actually believe in as a legitimate Torah 651 00:32:48,600 --> 00:32:51,040 approach. This has been a lot of fun and I 652 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:52,400 think there's so much important stuff here. 653 00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,280 I partly thought is as follows. There was an economist in the 654 00:32:55,280 --> 00:32:58,200 1930s. His name was John Maynard 655 00:32:58,200 --> 00:33:01,320 Keynes, and he wrote an essay called Economic Possibilities 656 00:33:01,320 --> 00:33:04,200 for Our Grandchildren. And there he predicted that 657 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,800 technological advancements and economic growth would lead to 658 00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:08,800 significant increases in productivity. 659 00:33:08,800 --> 00:33:11,280 Again, this is almost 100 years ago, allowing people to work 660 00:33:11,280 --> 00:33:15,400 much shorter hours, possibly as little as 15 hours a week, while 661 00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:16,880 maintaining a high standard of living. 662 00:33:16,880 --> 00:33:19,160 And I believe he, he said within 100 years that will be at this 663 00:33:19,160 --> 00:33:23,080 point where people work 15 hours a week because technology is so 664 00:33:23,080 --> 00:33:27,120 advanced and economic growth has been so flourishing. 665 00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,680 So we're there, right? We're now 94 years since he 666 00:33:31,680 --> 00:33:34,080 wrote that essay and we're obviously, as we said before, 667 00:33:34,080 --> 00:33:38,040 nowhere close to this reality. But on the other hand, we do see 668 00:33:38,040 --> 00:33:40,880 some trends starting to emerge. For example, there are scholars 669 00:33:40,880 --> 00:33:43,960 who believe that a four day work week can produce the same 670 00:33:43,960 --> 00:33:47,280 results for a business as a five day work week because people are 671 00:33:47,280 --> 00:33:50,120 can be so productive because people waste so much time 672 00:33:50,120 --> 00:33:51,480 browsing TikTok during their work day. 673 00:33:51,680 --> 00:33:54,840 For all these various reasons we could go down to four days of 674 00:33:54,840 --> 00:33:57,800 work a week and allow an extra day of our weekend to focus on 675 00:33:57,800 --> 00:34:00,120 other things that are important to us beyond just the office. 676 00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,640 So that is a movement which is still on the fringes of the 677 00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:05,480 business world but is gaining some momentum and is gaining 678 00:34:05,480 --> 00:34:07,680 some steam. And now we have generative AI in 679 00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,280 chat, CPT and and job market shifting to respond to these 680 00:34:11,280 --> 00:34:13,360 advanced in technology. So I would just say it's very, 681 00:34:13,360 --> 00:34:15,600 very interesting to see how things are going to play out 682 00:34:15,600 --> 00:34:18,280 over the next few years to see how these advances in technology 683 00:34:18,280 --> 00:34:22,880 actually do affect what we our lives look like in terms of work 684 00:34:23,040 --> 00:34:24,719 and things that beyond just our office and our work. 685 00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:27,320 That'll be very interesting to see how much we're able to be in 686 00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:49,080 my BASIC in the coming years. Thank you so much for tuning in 687 00:34:49,080 --> 00:34:50,800 to start today. Please make sure we'll leave a 688 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:52,800 five star review and help us grow our show. 689 00:34:53,239 --> 00:34:55,199 So next time, keep on staging. Clever.