1 00:00:00,720 --> 00:00:03,800 The Gomar and Kedushan says that a father is obligated to teach 2 00:00:03,800 --> 00:00:06,200 his son a trade so that he has the ability to earn a 3 00:00:06,200 --> 00:00:09,160 respectable living. I really lucked out on this one. 4 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:12,640 Today we are speaking with my father COO of our crowd, a 5 00:00:12,640 --> 00:00:15,480 Jerusalem based VC firm and Chairman of Kavanar, one of 6 00:00:15,480 --> 00:00:17,120 Israel's leading mental health providers. 7 00:00:17,640 --> 00:00:20,240 For the last 30 years. My father has created a unique 8 00:00:20,240 --> 00:00:23,280 synergy between his tech career and his classic efforts, and I 9 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:26,680 think we can divide them broadly into 3 buckets #1. 10 00:00:26,840 --> 00:00:30,520 Career Coaching and networking, #2 Nonprofit fundraising and 11 00:00:30,520 --> 00:00:34,040 consulting, and #3 maybe most importantly, just being a 12 00:00:34,040 --> 00:00:37,040 Mensch, listening, supporting, and pitching in wherever is 13 00:00:37,040 --> 00:00:39,040 needed. Abe and I speak about these 14 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:42,120 issues all the time and I am so excited to let you in on the 15 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:44,760 conversation. My name is Yakko Wolf and this 16 00:00:44,760 --> 00:01:00,960 is Start Tank. Hi, ABBA, Welcome to the show 17 00:01:00,960 --> 00:01:03,520 and thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me. 18 00:01:03,680 --> 00:01:06,680 This is fun. So you talk a lot to young 19 00:01:06,680 --> 00:01:09,160 people about their careers and about their life. 20 00:01:09,680 --> 00:01:13,480 And I feel like sometimes we can discuss having a successful 21 00:01:13,480 --> 00:01:16,240 career and how to build that up. We can talk about having work 22 00:01:16,240 --> 00:01:18,520 life balance and how to make sure that our family and other 23 00:01:18,520 --> 00:01:20,800 values stay strong. And I tell you, those two 24 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:24,280 conversations at best are disconnected from each other and 25 00:01:24,280 --> 00:01:26,880 at worst they can come into friction with each other. 26 00:01:26,880 --> 00:01:29,560 So if you're talking about taking on a side hustle or going 27 00:01:29,560 --> 00:01:32,240 for that NBA degree, staying late to take on other projects 28 00:01:32,240 --> 00:01:34,480 in the office. So maybe we can try to figure 29 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,640 out a way to talk about these two topics not in a way which 30 00:01:36,640 --> 00:01:39,920 are disconnected or in friction, but rather in a way where the 31 00:01:39,920 --> 00:01:42,680 advice that builds a great career is the same advice and 32 00:01:42,680 --> 00:01:45,720 creates A synergy with having a balanced life and life outside 33 00:01:45,720 --> 00:01:49,920 of the office as well. So the entire journey in terms 34 00:01:49,960 --> 00:01:55,840 of work and earning A Parnassa and earning a living obviously 35 00:01:55,840 --> 00:02:00,520 is 1, which consumes great deal of our both emotions and energy, 36 00:02:00,520 --> 00:02:04,160 especially at the earlier stages when we're unsure and uncertain 37 00:02:04,160 --> 00:02:07,680 of what the future holds and everybody wants to feel good and 38 00:02:07,680 --> 00:02:09,680 secure. That's a very human tendency 39 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,080 about their ability, not just in the short term but in the long 40 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:17,720 term, to be able to see their family in most cases, especially 41 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,480 in our population. Also in terms of living with 42 00:02:20,480 --> 00:02:24,600 dignity, as many of our own Tilos, our own prayers referred 43 00:02:24,600 --> 00:02:27,400 to. And like everything, obviously 44 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:31,480 it's a combination of our effort, RH Douglas and the 45 00:02:31,600 --> 00:02:36,040 Hazbaka Pratis, divine supervision that we're blessed 46 00:02:36,040 --> 00:02:40,240 with, which we don't control. So everybody has their own 47 00:02:40,240 --> 00:02:43,680 strengths, everyone has their own tendencies, and everyone, 48 00:02:43,680 --> 00:02:46,280 more more importantly, has their own values. 49 00:02:46,320 --> 00:02:49,280 I think a lot of the conversation has to start about 50 00:02:49,280 --> 00:02:52,640 what your values are and what your priorities are, and 51 00:02:52,640 --> 00:02:57,320 hopefully if those two are in synergy, then the rest becomes, 52 00:02:57,400 --> 00:03:00,640 I won't say easy, but a lot more simple to approach. 53 00:03:01,160 --> 00:03:04,880 So if we specifically are talking about a general path, a 54 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:08,120 general career choice, nobody really knows for sure what 55 00:03:08,120 --> 00:03:11,480 they'll be able to succeed in. But very often we start with 56 00:03:11,880 --> 00:03:15,800 what we've seen at home, both in terms of what our parents or 57 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,720 friends or family do day by day, but also in terms of how they 58 00:03:20,240 --> 00:03:23,080 handle it, right? So when someone grows up in an 59 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:26,000 environment where, you know, working endlessly around the 60 00:03:26,000 --> 00:03:29,840 clock, logging in from home, as we say nowadays, not when I was 61 00:03:29,840 --> 00:03:33,120 growing up, that also impacts the path that we take. 62 00:03:33,360 --> 00:03:36,840 But it's important to always start by taking that piece of 63 00:03:36,840 --> 00:03:39,880 paper and making sure that in front of our own eyes all the 64 00:03:39,880 --> 00:03:43,560 time we're keeping our value sets in check and our priorities 65 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:47,640 in check. And just to that end, I do like 66 00:03:47,640 --> 00:03:51,680 to tell people who are early on and starting out that our lives 67 00:03:51,680 --> 00:03:53,520 are really a set of concentric circles. 68 00:03:53,920 --> 00:03:58,280 You're always the at at the epicenter, but over time, things 69 00:03:58,280 --> 00:04:02,080 change when you're single, maybe your immediate outside circle or 70 00:04:02,080 --> 00:04:05,960 your parents or your friends. As you get married, hopefully it 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,680 becomes your wife. As you have children, they get 72 00:04:08,680 --> 00:04:11,040 into the picture. So where exactly in the 73 00:04:11,040 --> 00:04:14,280 concentric circles is your employer and your work life? 74 00:04:14,560 --> 00:04:19,399 And keeping that radar screen clear is the key to ultimately 75 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,160 achieving that, if we want to call it work life balance, but 76 00:04:23,160 --> 00:04:26,520 more appropriately the work life synergy as you properly use that 77 00:04:26,520 --> 00:04:28,040 word. So you mentioned having 78 00:04:28,040 --> 00:04:30,880 concentric circles, being aware of yourself and your values. 79 00:04:31,200 --> 00:04:35,080 How does that not only helps prioritize and map out your work 80 00:04:35,080 --> 00:04:37,600 and your life and all the different parts, but also make 81 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:39,040 your career great and successful? 82 00:04:39,800 --> 00:04:42,920 So yeah, self-awareness has various elements to it. 83 00:04:43,240 --> 00:04:47,480 When we're young, we generally are aware of what we're good at 84 00:04:47,640 --> 00:04:50,840 and we're taking pride in what we good at and what we're good 85 00:04:50,840 --> 00:04:54,960 at and the natural blessings or talents or skills that are 86 00:04:54,960 --> 00:04:57,800 God-given. And both parents and kids I 87 00:04:57,800 --> 00:05:02,160 think typically zone in on that. And I think that also does 88 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:05,720 correlate a little bit early stage in in your career to not 89 00:05:05,720 --> 00:05:09,520 obsessing with what you love or what emotionally attracts you, 90 00:05:09,880 --> 00:05:12,440 but where you can be effective, where you can be a builder, 91 00:05:12,440 --> 00:05:17,640 where you can be a producer. And that really is how you begin 92 00:05:17,640 --> 00:05:22,520 to build your own, not just your own work value, but it also does 93 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:26,520 allow you to then become more aware of whether that also 94 00:05:26,520 --> 00:05:29,320 dovetails with what you enjoy and what you believe it. 95 00:05:29,760 --> 00:05:34,040 So self-awareness, as I think is a combination of your own 96 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:39,600 strengths, your beliefs, and again, depending on at what 97 00:05:39,600 --> 00:05:42,760 point in your life you're starting to work, what else 98 00:05:42,760 --> 00:05:44,400 around you needs to be considered. 99 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,160 So those three elements are key. As an example, if I am able to 100 00:05:49,160 --> 00:05:53,360 start to achieve in a work environment that I believe to be 101 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:57,640 suitable for me, and my choice is not purely based on how much 102 00:05:57,640 --> 00:06:01,520 it pays, then I will ultimately be able to start to figure out, 103 00:06:01,520 --> 00:06:04,520 and this only comes at a certain point in one's professional 104 00:06:04,520 --> 00:06:07,120 evolution. OK, so now that I know what I 105 00:06:07,120 --> 00:06:12,000 can do, what can I do with what I do and where else can I apply 106 00:06:12,000 --> 00:06:15,160 those skills? And one might often be surprised 107 00:06:15,160 --> 00:06:19,680 about, especially in the day and age that we live in given the 108 00:06:19,680 --> 00:06:23,520 technology, given the flexibility, given wide range of 109 00:06:23,520 --> 00:06:27,360 work environments to choose from, what else one can pursue 110 00:06:27,640 --> 00:06:29,720 over time? And I think it's very important 111 00:06:29,720 --> 00:06:33,840 not to pigeonhole oneself in a long term vision, but rather 112 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,880 cultivate over time what it is that that moves you and what it 113 00:06:38,880 --> 00:06:41,160 is that that can create that impact. 114 00:06:41,160 --> 00:06:43,760 Because ultimately that's the satisfaction at work, right? 115 00:06:43,760 --> 00:06:48,440 We spend an enormous percentage of our lives over time involved 116 00:06:48,440 --> 00:06:52,720 in work and work as we in Hebrew is avoda. 117 00:06:53,120 --> 00:06:56,720 And yet we're always striving as religious Jews and religious 118 00:06:56,720 --> 00:07:00,640 people to perform our avoda. And that's where the two can 119 00:07:00,640 --> 00:07:03,480 meet. Where is it that my that all 120 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,800 that time that I invest is not just to see the paycheck in the 121 00:07:06,800 --> 00:07:09,560 bank at the end of the week or the end of the month or at the 122 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:12,720 end of the day, But what is it that is giving? 123 00:07:12,760 --> 00:07:16,520 What is it that I'm giving into greater society, greater 124 00:07:16,520 --> 00:07:19,760 culture, community as a result of those efforts? 125 00:07:19,760 --> 00:07:24,160 Because without that, I think one will for a long time not be 126 00:07:24,160 --> 00:07:28,200 satisfied with that investment. And that satisfaction is really 127 00:07:28,200 --> 00:07:32,240 what's going to make one, and I use air quotes happy in their 128 00:07:32,240 --> 00:07:35,240 work. And happiness is something which 129 00:07:35,240 --> 00:07:39,080 we have to be not counting on someone else to provide for us, 130 00:07:39,080 --> 00:07:41,280 but something that we are accountable to create for 131 00:07:41,280 --> 00:07:43,480 ourselves. That's true in every walk of 132 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:45,480 life, but certainly when it comes to work. 133 00:07:45,920 --> 00:07:47,160 So if I. Understand correctly. 134 00:07:47,160 --> 00:07:50,680 You're saying that there's no point in having a very specific 135 00:07:50,680 --> 00:07:54,120 long term vision, but there is a lot of value in making sure that 136 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:56,600 in the early stages you're building skills so that as 137 00:07:56,880 --> 00:07:59,520 things come along, you're able to apply those skills in the 138 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:02,640 more meaningful areas of life, even though the opportunity to 139 00:08:02,640 --> 00:08:05,360 match your skills and your passions might not be there at 140 00:08:05,360 --> 00:08:07,240 the very early stages. Did I understand that correctly? 141 00:08:07,680 --> 00:08:10,840 I think so. The I know that every specific 142 00:08:11,120 --> 00:08:15,880 case is going to be different. And again, it's important not to 143 00:08:15,880 --> 00:08:19,520 not to blanket every unique individual circumstance in 144 00:08:19,520 --> 00:08:24,040 general rules, but obviously many of our friends, many of our 145 00:08:24,040 --> 00:08:27,360 family are getting themselves trained in law, getting 146 00:08:27,360 --> 00:08:29,960 themselves trained in medicine. I mean people trained in 147 00:08:29,960 --> 00:08:34,640 finance, getting themselves trained in technology and what 148 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:39,280 we choose to train in is clearly a choice that that does have 149 00:08:39,280 --> 00:08:42,200 long term impact. You can't necessarily decide 150 00:08:42,200 --> 00:08:44,800 after a year and a half of being a doctor that you want to become 151 00:08:44,800 --> 00:08:47,040 a lawyer, although I know people have done that too. 152 00:08:47,560 --> 00:08:50,960 But once you take that path, which again is generally built 153 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,960 on what it was you were good at in school or where your academic 154 00:08:55,360 --> 00:08:59,320 performance was, was greatest. But even as you do that and even 155 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:02,680 as you're coming out of university or training online 156 00:09:02,680 --> 00:09:07,040 and something, it's very important to keep in mind that 157 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:12,080 there really is no area in life in which you automatically are 158 00:09:12,080 --> 00:09:14,920 signed up to a certain level of satisfaction. 159 00:09:15,320 --> 00:09:19,200 And what I mean by that is that whether you're in the finance 160 00:09:19,200 --> 00:09:22,720 world or the medical world or what have you, you have to put 161 00:09:22,720 --> 00:09:26,440 yourself in a culture. You have to create for yourself 162 00:09:26,560 --> 00:09:31,760 a culture in which your values and beliefs can not just 163 00:09:31,760 --> 00:09:35,240 coexist, but ideally blend with with what it is that you are 164 00:09:35,240 --> 00:09:38,160 expected to deliver and what it is that you're being compensated 165 00:09:38,160 --> 00:09:41,560 to do. And it's not always easy, but it 166 00:09:41,560 --> 00:09:43,720 is our individual responsibility. 167 00:09:43,720 --> 00:09:47,240 The same way that when we build a home and when we raise our 168 00:09:47,240 --> 00:09:51,280 children, there's lots of external factors that we can 169 00:09:51,280 --> 00:09:55,560 point to and say if only that were different or if only our 170 00:09:55,560 --> 00:09:58,200 community was different, that's not going to be a very 171 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:02,520 satisfying or successful formula in had the vartaloi Ella B. 172 00:10:02,880 --> 00:10:04,480 We have to really understand that. 173 00:10:04,480 --> 00:10:08,760 And each and every individual is accountable and capable of 174 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:13,360 creating that. Whether you want to say whether 175 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:15,920 it's true that every day you wake up and have another set of 176 00:10:15,920 --> 00:10:18,840 decisions to make, That's obviously the case on a micro 177 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:21,120 level. But on a macro level, you choose 178 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:24,200 a direction, you choose a path, and then it takes a lot of work, 179 00:10:24,240 --> 00:10:27,960 takes a lot of effort. But if one simply says I can't 180 00:10:27,960 --> 00:10:32,480 help it, my work environment is full of Schwartz or it's a dog 181 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:36,520 eat dog or rat race, then you got to figure out whether that's 182 00:10:36,520 --> 00:10:40,440 something which which can still fit the bill or whether you need 183 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:44,120 to move on, and whether that requires a small amount of 184 00:10:44,120 --> 00:10:47,960 sacrifice or large amounts of sacrifice in the long run. 185 00:10:47,960 --> 00:10:51,920 It's an absolutely, in my opinion, mandatory A sacrifice 186 00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,400 that one needs to make, as in all the things that we do. 187 00:10:55,920 --> 00:10:57,920 Can you give any examples of real life? 188 00:10:58,000 --> 00:11:01,160 How the self-awareness of the concentric circles help you 189 00:11:01,160 --> 00:11:06,280 navigate a difficult decision. So I'm now 30 years into my work 190 00:11:06,280 --> 00:11:10,160 career, which I'm fortunate to have spent half in the US and 191 00:11:10,160 --> 00:11:13,320 half in Israel, with a couple of years also in the United 192 00:11:13,320 --> 00:11:15,720 Kingdom. So I've had a taste of a lot of 193 00:11:15,720 --> 00:11:18,520 different environments. I have worked in the for profit 194 00:11:18,520 --> 00:11:20,320 world. I worked in the nonprofit world 195 00:11:20,360 --> 00:11:25,640 as a professional, and it hasn't been the neatest mapping of what 196 00:11:25,640 --> 00:11:27,640 one would call a career trajectory. 197 00:11:27,920 --> 00:11:31,240 But I think that's also a reflection of how I view the 198 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:35,600 same general principle of a career and a work life synergy. 199 00:11:35,960 --> 00:11:39,280 Opportunities have come up. I'm very fortunate, very blessed 200 00:11:39,280 --> 00:11:43,360 that I haven't really had to go too far and wide to seek those 201 00:11:43,360 --> 00:11:45,400 opportunities. But when opportunities come up, 202 00:11:45,400 --> 00:11:47,840 you do have some binary decisions to make. 203 00:11:48,080 --> 00:11:51,800 So for example, when I started out with an engineering degree, 204 00:11:52,000 --> 00:11:55,400 I felt like manufacturing was interesting to me. 205 00:11:55,480 --> 00:11:58,480 Creating things, producing things that you could touch and 206 00:11:58,480 --> 00:12:02,360 feel and see the outcome of was something which may be, you 207 00:12:02,360 --> 00:12:05,480 know, based on my own personality, I felt was most 208 00:12:05,480 --> 00:12:08,000 satisfying. But at some point, probably 209 00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:11,080 about five or six years in, that's when certain technologies 210 00:12:11,080 --> 00:12:14,760 were picking up in the enterprise area and realizing 211 00:12:14,760 --> 00:12:18,320 that maybe the next step was going to be that what you're 212 00:12:18,320 --> 00:12:21,040 producing is not necessarily something you can hold, but 213 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,960 something that you can measure. So it became something going 214 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:27,240 from more material to measurable and then after that. 215 00:12:27,520 --> 00:12:29,720 So that I think that's one specific example. 216 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:33,920 So you mentioned your early career and how at some point you 217 00:12:33,920 --> 00:12:37,120 shifted from manufacturing and engineering to software, but 218 00:12:37,120 --> 00:12:39,440 going back to that early engineering part of your life, 219 00:12:39,440 --> 00:12:41,960 can you tell us what the first stage in your career was when 220 00:12:41,960 --> 00:12:43,480 you left college? Sure. 221 00:12:43,480 --> 00:12:46,240 The first job I took was because I wanted to be able to pay for 222 00:12:46,240 --> 00:12:49,680 my wife's engagement ring, my future wife's engagement ring. 223 00:12:49,880 --> 00:12:53,680 So I interned during the summer of my after my junior year in a 224 00:12:53,680 --> 00:12:56,400 manufacturing environment, which I really enjoyed. 225 00:12:56,680 --> 00:12:59,520 My degree is in industrial engineering, which back then 226 00:12:59,520 --> 00:13:03,920 meant the science of combining the man and the machine was 227 00:13:04,200 --> 00:13:06,720 originated when the industrial revolution. 228 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:10,440 Efficiency, quality. How do you balance, be Human 229 00:13:10,440 --> 00:13:13,680 touch with the resources to create something at scale? 230 00:13:14,280 --> 00:13:18,600 And ironically, 30 years later, I find that to still be very 231 00:13:18,600 --> 00:13:21,040 true. By the way, which is one of my 232 00:13:21,040 --> 00:13:25,080 very first mentors used to say business would be easy if there 233 00:13:25,080 --> 00:13:27,600 were no people involved. And I think an extension of 234 00:13:27,600 --> 00:13:31,200 that, while that's very true and ironic, I think people are very 235 00:13:31,200 --> 00:13:34,200 easy when business isn't involved, when people aren't 236 00:13:34,200 --> 00:13:37,280 necessarily competing for the same position or trying to make 237 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,440 the bonus or trying to put their self over their environment, 238 00:13:41,800 --> 00:13:45,040 That's there's always that element of trying to combine the 239 00:13:45,040 --> 00:13:47,120 human need with the business need. 240 00:13:47,480 --> 00:13:50,640 I will go on a slight digression here and say that in some ways 241 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:53,920 that's the difference between Kodesh and Hull, right. 242 00:13:53,920 --> 00:13:57,960 Hull is anything that is material and in this world and 243 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:02,360 serving ourselves and Kodash is anything that's above the world 244 00:14:02,360 --> 00:14:05,360 and something which we serve for others. 245 00:14:05,560 --> 00:14:08,800 And so I think that's also not a bad compass to use. 246 00:14:09,280 --> 00:14:13,280 Even if even if your work feels very material, the way you 247 00:14:13,280 --> 00:14:16,640 approach that work can still have kedusha if it's not 248 00:14:16,640 --> 00:14:19,960 constantly about whether it's satisfying yourself, whether 249 00:14:19,960 --> 00:14:21,960 it's paying you the highest salary etcetera. 250 00:14:22,280 --> 00:14:24,480 So in the answer to your question, coming out of 251 00:14:24,480 --> 00:14:27,880 university, having had that manufacturing experience, while 252 00:14:27,880 --> 00:14:31,320 there were offers coming from an Ivy League school having a 253 00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:34,560 degree from Columbia to go into consulting and management 254 00:14:34,560 --> 00:14:37,080 consulting, which was also tracked for a lot of industrial 255 00:14:37,080 --> 00:14:39,360 engineers. The choice was to go into 256 00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:43,280 manufacturing where I had to actually produce something 257 00:14:43,280 --> 00:14:46,680 myself where I was on the line to test whether I could perform 258 00:14:46,680 --> 00:14:49,920 and I could deliver. And that did ultimately more 259 00:14:49,920 --> 00:14:53,440 than I ever thought it would, I think shape how I see other 260 00:14:53,440 --> 00:14:55,400 people starting their careers today. 261 00:14:55,400 --> 00:14:58,960 I work in venture capital, which is a very attractive area to a 262 00:14:58,960 --> 00:15:01,920 lot of people because it it looks like that's where all of 263 00:15:01,920 --> 00:15:04,160 the power sits. But I think that a very young 264 00:15:04,160 --> 00:15:07,080 person starting right away into venture capital is a little bit 265 00:15:07,080 --> 00:15:12,400 parallel to what it was in 1993 for someone in 19, four starting 266 00:15:12,400 --> 00:15:14,640 to go into consulting. You're starting to tell people 267 00:15:14,800 --> 00:15:16,360 whether what they're doing is valuable. 268 00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:19,120 You're trying to tell people what to do when you yourself 269 00:15:19,120 --> 00:15:21,480 haven't necessarily done it. When you yourself haven't 270 00:15:21,480 --> 00:15:24,240 actually built your own business, it's pretty hard to 271 00:15:24,240 --> 00:15:26,800 tell someone else what's right and wrong about the business 272 00:15:26,800 --> 00:15:29,480 they're trying to build or how much value it's worth, which is 273 00:15:29,480 --> 00:15:31,040 what venture capitalists have to do. 274 00:15:31,520 --> 00:15:34,560 So you're looking back 30 years down the line at that decision, 275 00:15:34,560 --> 00:15:37,800 but in the moment you had these offers from fancy consulting 276 00:15:37,800 --> 00:15:40,560 companies and from a factory, what do you do when you had that 277 00:15:40,560 --> 00:15:43,400 decision to make? So I started with my greatest 278 00:15:43,520 --> 00:15:47,680 mentor and resource which was my father and but it also did take 279 00:15:47,680 --> 00:15:51,240 into consideration watching some of my friends and how they were 280 00:15:51,240 --> 00:15:54,680 going about the same process because I wasn't alone in that 281 00:15:54,680 --> 00:15:56,480 journey. I'm graduated alongside a bunch 282 00:15:56,480 --> 00:15:58,320 of other people with a lot of other backgrounds. 283 00:15:58,760 --> 00:16:01,280 And actually knowing that their backgrounds and their cultures 284 00:16:01,280 --> 00:16:04,280 and their values, their beliefs were not exactly the same as 285 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:08,720 mine was actually quite informed a lot of my own decision seeing 286 00:16:08,720 --> 00:16:11,960 what kind of guided them to oh that's that's going to be in a 287 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,000 fancy office that's going to be allow me to do a lot of 288 00:16:15,080 --> 00:16:17,400 traveling. Those were not the things that 289 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:21,520 necessarily drove me, and I was able to not only compare with my 290 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:25,200 own father's guidance, but contrast with some of the folks 291 00:16:25,240 --> 00:16:27,280 who I was experiencing it alongside. 292 00:16:27,680 --> 00:16:30,320 And you made a decision to go with manufacturing. 293 00:16:30,760 --> 00:16:32,840 Where was that first job and what were you actually doing? 294 00:16:33,400 --> 00:16:38,800 So my first job was in a a food manufacturing facility in New 295 00:16:38,800 --> 00:16:42,200 Jersey called Interbaked Foods, which we basically baked 296 00:16:42,200 --> 00:16:45,920 cookies, except we did them on factory lines that were in 297 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:47,600 conveyors that were two miles long. 298 00:16:47,960 --> 00:16:51,840 We were baking them in the millions a day, made most of 299 00:16:51,960 --> 00:16:55,720 America's Girl Scout cookies, and I was assigned to a project 300 00:16:55,840 --> 00:17:00,200 to try to integrate some very advanced technology in the 301 00:17:00,200 --> 00:17:03,480 packing and warehousing of lots and lots of boxes of cookies and 302 00:17:03,480 --> 00:17:07,119 crackers on a daily basis. And you mentioned how obviously 303 00:17:07,119 --> 00:17:09,680 the world has changed so much in the 30 years since that first 304 00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:11,720 job. So you mentioned one take away 305 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:15,079 that you still live with, which is the difference between VCs 306 00:17:15,079 --> 00:17:16,920 and startups, the difference between consultants and 307 00:17:16,920 --> 00:17:19,839 manufacturers. Are there any other soft skills 308 00:17:19,839 --> 00:17:22,680 or other takeaways that really guide you to this day from those 309 00:17:22,680 --> 00:17:26,520 early experiences? Yeah, so I I was fortunate to be 310 00:17:26,520 --> 00:17:29,360 put very early on in in the managerial role. 311 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:32,760 I didn't feel well. I guess I felt fortunate from a 312 00:17:32,760 --> 00:17:36,000 self esteem standpoint, but the day-to-day work of trying to 313 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:39,680 manage certain people who were twice your age was not pleasant. 314 00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:43,920 The challenge of trying to be a an Orthodox Jew in a in an 315 00:17:43,920 --> 00:17:48,600 environment where most people weren't exactly keen on, on some 316 00:17:48,600 --> 00:17:52,080 of our difference in backgrounds and that presented me with 317 00:17:52,080 --> 00:17:55,200 tremendous challenges that I could not have been trained for. 318 00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:59,480 That no university will teach. And I think that, and I refer to 319 00:17:59,480 --> 00:18:03,320 the fact that every single person who who works around you 320 00:18:03,320 --> 00:18:06,400 and certainly those who report to you, your first priority has 321 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:11,960 to be to try to understand what makes them tick, understand what 322 00:18:11,960 --> 00:18:16,360 is important to them, and find a balance between getting out of 323 00:18:16,360 --> 00:18:19,080 each individual the most that they can give you. 324 00:18:19,560 --> 00:18:22,320 But that's not just about putting the right tools in front 325 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,200 of them. It's also giving them the 326 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,720 appreciation for what they're doing has meaning and how that 327 00:18:27,800 --> 00:18:29,320 makes them feel about themselves. 328 00:18:29,920 --> 00:18:34,120 So those are the soft skills that I think I like to believe 329 00:18:34,120 --> 00:18:37,160 have driven me to this day. And those are the soft skills 330 00:18:37,160 --> 00:18:40,480 that also make one should make one realize because not 331 00:18:40,480 --> 00:18:42,880 everybody is a manager, there are people who can sit their 332 00:18:42,880 --> 00:18:45,280 entire lives and just write code and do very well. 333 00:18:45,280 --> 00:18:49,840 In terms of Parnassa, there are those who can go into actuarial 334 00:18:49,840 --> 00:18:53,160 work and be extremely valuable just as a one man band. 335 00:18:53,640 --> 00:18:56,720 And again, that comes back to your self-awareness, that comes 336 00:18:56,720 --> 00:19:01,400 back to is that the type of is that the definition of is that 337 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,120 part of the definition of parnassa naka, parnassa kala una 338 00:19:05,120 --> 00:19:08,360 kiya to you. To some it is, to some it isn't. 339 00:19:08,640 --> 00:19:12,360 But again, each and every person has their area which they 340 00:19:12,360 --> 00:19:17,240 believe they can impact. And in my case, I felt like the 341 00:19:17,240 --> 00:19:21,800 ability to get the most out of people around me, the ability to 342 00:19:22,280 --> 00:19:26,720 create the best blend of the human relationship and the 343 00:19:26,720 --> 00:19:30,200 professional relationship. And I think as a result one of 344 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:32,800 the things that looking back I still have plenty to look 345 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,200 forward. But looking back certainly the 346 00:19:35,200 --> 00:19:38,600 relationships that I built in the work environment, many have 347 00:19:38,600 --> 00:19:41,800 lasted a lifetime and that's not something which I'll ever be 348 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,280 able to measure in a pension account or in a when looking 349 00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,840 back at product that we delivered or results that we 350 00:19:47,840 --> 00:19:52,040 delivered or. But it it's certainly over the 351 00:19:52,040 --> 00:19:56,240 long run is what for me personally, created a lot of job 352 00:19:56,240 --> 00:20:00,280 satisfaction to use of. Pretty lame cliche, what's? 353 00:20:00,880 --> 00:20:02,560 I want to hold on this point just for one more minute. 354 00:20:03,120 --> 00:20:05,840 It's really been special to see the relationships that you'll be 355 00:20:05,840 --> 00:20:08,440 able to cultivate, starting from some very high profile 356 00:20:08,440 --> 00:20:11,080 individuals, which we can't even mention here on recording all 357 00:20:11,080 --> 00:20:13,800 the way down to the maintenance and cleaning staff institutions 358 00:20:13,800 --> 00:20:15,880 that you work. All of them have a great love 359 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:19,120 and respect for you, but there's certain risks involved in 360 00:20:19,120 --> 00:20:23,080 creating personal relationships with your Business Contact and 361 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:27,120 also with bringing friends and family from outside of work into 362 00:20:27,120 --> 00:20:30,000 your business life. So do you have any advice on 363 00:20:30,000 --> 00:20:33,280 that possible tension to the risks involved in mixing those 364 00:20:33,280 --> 00:20:34,880 two? OK, so first of all a 365 00:20:34,880 --> 00:20:37,240 correction. I would say far from everyone 366 00:20:37,360 --> 00:20:40,720 who I worked with necessarily wanted to stay connected with me 367 00:20:40,720 --> 00:20:43,600 for the long run. No matter how hard one works, to 368 00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:47,880 try to create a an environment in which it's not what we call 369 00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,520 net sum 0 where we can both win. There are some people, based on 370 00:20:51,520 --> 00:20:55,040 their backgrounds and personal circumstances are not able to 371 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,400 accept that. And we can only do as much as we 372 00:20:57,400 --> 00:20:58,960 do. And it takes sometimes for some 373 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:01,960 of us a long time to recognize that not every one of those 374 00:21:02,080 --> 00:21:06,000 encounters is winnable. So we get over that as we get 375 00:21:06,000 --> 00:21:08,320 older. But in terms of, you mentioned 376 00:21:08,320 --> 00:21:10,920 some of the people I've worked with and mentors who I prefer 377 00:21:10,920 --> 00:21:13,920 not to call out by name. But the one of them used to 378 00:21:13,920 --> 00:21:17,840 quote the Godfather and say when Don Corleone says, hey, it's 379 00:21:17,840 --> 00:21:20,760 business, nothing personal. And I know most of your audience 380 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:23,600 doesn't watch movies, but they may have heard that quote. 381 00:21:23,880 --> 00:21:27,520 It's always personal. We can delude ourselves to say 382 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:31,720 you can separate them. But I think in the belief system 383 00:21:31,720 --> 00:21:35,040 that we're brought up in and the education that we get, there is 384 00:21:35,040 --> 00:21:39,320 nothing more primary than the personal relationship and the 385 00:21:39,680 --> 00:21:43,440 respect that one has to give to every cell and Elo Kim, every 386 00:21:43,440 --> 00:21:45,640 image of God that is put into every human being. 387 00:21:46,160 --> 00:21:49,360 And the minute you lose sight of that, I believe you lose the 388 00:21:49,360 --> 00:21:53,680 ability to stay on track. So you don't have to have been a 389 00:21:53,680 --> 00:21:56,280 student of Wizards for him. There's plenty of people who 390 00:21:56,280 --> 00:21:59,600 have not a shred of Jewish in them, not a shred of Torah in 391 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,480 them, who embody that in in their lives. 392 00:22:02,520 --> 00:22:06,280 And it's also very important to recognize that part, which is 393 00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:09,320 that it doesn't really matter whether they're Jewish or not, 394 00:22:09,320 --> 00:22:11,000 whether they have a keep on their head or not. 395 00:22:11,400 --> 00:22:14,560 I have some of my role models in that department. 396 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:18,280 Couldn't be farther from all of the above, but yet they had the 397 00:22:18,560 --> 00:22:22,640 the innate ability to recognize that human dignity is above all. 398 00:22:22,640 --> 00:22:25,280 And if you can stick to that consistently, despite some of 399 00:22:25,280 --> 00:22:28,760 the challenges you run into at work, then ultimately I think 400 00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,200 that's the satisfaction you enjoy in the long term. 401 00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:32,920 So I want to shift gears for a minute. 402 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:36,040 You're a manager. You've hired and fired a whole 403 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:37,480 bunch of people. You speak to young people all 404 00:22:37,480 --> 00:22:39,760 the time. So I want to ask you a question 405 00:22:39,760 --> 00:22:41,920 of personal advice for a theoretical individual. 406 00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:43,800 He did the last semester of college. 407 00:22:43,800 --> 00:22:46,320 He's finishing a degree in business and marketing, and he's 408 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:48,760 looking for his first real job. He's done some side gigs and 409 00:22:48,760 --> 00:22:50,360 marketing with nonprofits in the past. 410 00:22:50,720 --> 00:22:53,320 Totally hypothetical of course, and he's his last semester. 411 00:22:53,320 --> 00:22:55,120 He's looking ahead to his first full time job. 412 00:22:55,480 --> 00:22:58,800 What should he be focusing on? So I believe that every 413 00:22:58,920 --> 00:23:03,800 individual, even at a young age, has a story to tell and has a 414 00:23:04,520 --> 00:23:08,480 picture to reveal to the person who's interviewing in a job 415 00:23:08,480 --> 00:23:11,000 application process. Again, and it depends on whether 416 00:23:11,000 --> 00:23:14,080 you're complying to a very large company or a very small company 417 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:17,800 or for profit or a nonprofit. There's all sorts of shapes and 418 00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:22,800 sizes, but very often you submit your resume and it gets rejected 419 00:23:22,800 --> 00:23:25,880 because you didn't necessarily tick all the boxes for what the 420 00:23:25,880 --> 00:23:28,600 job requirements are. But at the end of the day, 421 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,240 you're going to be fortunate enough to get an interview. 422 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:34,640 And even if you don't, I would say before we even talk about 423 00:23:34,640 --> 00:23:37,920 interviewing, if you talk about networking, then I think that 424 00:23:37,920 --> 00:23:41,000 the most important part of seeking a job, whether it's at 425 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:44,600 the beginning or the middle or the end of a career, is about 426 00:23:44,600 --> 00:23:48,640 your network and about making sure that whoever's out there 427 00:23:48,640 --> 00:23:52,760 gets to know you, the person, as opposed to you, the professional 428 00:23:52,760 --> 00:23:56,320 resume. I tell entry level applicants, 429 00:23:56,600 --> 00:23:59,240 make sure that you look back on the things that you've done, and 430 00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:02,840 almost each and everyone of us has done something, whether it's 431 00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:05,000 in high school, whether it's in university, whether it's as a 432 00:24:05,000 --> 00:24:08,320 volunteer, whether it's a busboy or waiter in camp. 433 00:24:08,680 --> 00:24:12,960 There's something to be said for how you did the things that you 434 00:24:12,960 --> 00:24:15,600 got involved in, whether you got paid for it, whether you were 435 00:24:15,600 --> 00:24:18,560 volunteering for it, and figure out how to tell that story. 436 00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:22,080 Figure out how to capture that in a way that is relatable to 437 00:24:22,080 --> 00:24:25,440 other people and pretty hard to get specific because each and 438 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:27,640 every one of us has their own story. 439 00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:32,160 But if you're somebody who you know, who volunteered or worked 440 00:24:32,160 --> 00:24:35,440 for you outside and work with special needs kids, or was a 441 00:24:35,440 --> 00:24:38,840 counselor in camp, or was the head of a club in high school, 442 00:24:38,840 --> 00:24:43,320 or even if you were someone who coordinated Hogan Yeshiva, come 443 00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,680 to a specific audience, what was it that you did? 444 00:24:46,680 --> 00:24:49,000 What was it that you enjoyed about doing it? 445 00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:51,120 What was it that drove you to do it in the 1st place? 446 00:24:51,600 --> 00:24:55,160 It starts there and then with every you'll get your first 447 00:24:55,160 --> 00:24:56,880 experience in one way or another. 448 00:24:57,440 --> 00:25:00,400 And if you always go in with that approach, it will also help 449 00:25:00,400 --> 00:25:03,880 you keep your own temperature as you're doing the next things 450 00:25:03,880 --> 00:25:08,160 that you're doing and using that to that, that litmus test all 451 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:09,960 the time. Am I doing it for the right 452 00:25:09,960 --> 00:25:11,920 reasons? Am I doing it in the right way? 453 00:25:12,200 --> 00:25:16,600 Am I implementing my values in the things that I'm also keeping 454 00:25:16,600 --> 00:25:19,600 busy with and spending time during the day to turn that 455 00:25:19,600 --> 00:25:23,600 paycheck? And that can create a very solid 456 00:25:24,040 --> 00:25:26,600 Your resume might be your foundation, but but what you're 457 00:25:26,600 --> 00:25:29,800 doing with it is the the look and feel of the walls and the 458 00:25:29,800 --> 00:25:33,680 windows around it. OK, we're about to our last part 459 00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:35,680 of our conversation. You're also very active in the 460 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:38,320 nonprofit world. You're currently the chairman of 461 00:25:38,320 --> 00:25:40,520 Kabanar, which is one of Israel's leading mental health 462 00:25:40,520 --> 00:25:43,440 organizations. But it's not just a side gig. 463 00:25:43,440 --> 00:25:46,200 At one point, you were full time in the nonprofit world. 464 00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:49,040 Can you tell us how you shifted from the beginning of your 465 00:25:49,040 --> 00:25:52,400 career in baking cookies and in software to nonprofit? 466 00:25:52,880 --> 00:25:56,400 Yeah, it's it was both a function of personal 467 00:25:56,400 --> 00:25:58,480 circumstance and professional circumstance. 468 00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:03,240 We had just had our fourth child and the professional side was 469 00:26:03,240 --> 00:26:07,800 requiring a lot of travel, which I felt was certainly impacting 470 00:26:07,800 --> 00:26:11,200 potentially or feared that it was potentially impacting my my 471 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,120 presence in the house and my ability to be around for my kids 472 00:26:14,560 --> 00:26:18,120 and I. It was also a time where I had 473 00:26:18,120 --> 00:26:21,200 been in technology. I had been working for startup 474 00:26:21,200 --> 00:26:25,200 that was acquired by a public company and the tech bubble 475 00:26:25,440 --> 00:26:29,480 after the year 2000 had burst. I was very fortunate, I really 476 00:26:29,480 --> 00:26:31,880 was. My job was stable, but the work 477 00:26:31,880 --> 00:26:34,640 environment was had become a little bit. 478 00:26:34,640 --> 00:26:37,840 Referring to what we talked about before, it was not feeling 479 00:26:37,840 --> 00:26:39,680 very satisfying. A lot of people were working 480 00:26:39,680 --> 00:26:42,200 just to keep their jobs watching. 481 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:45,200 A lot of people getting laid off wasn't very enjoyable. 482 00:26:45,720 --> 00:26:49,640 So I had a sense that maybe that path was getting a little bit 483 00:26:49,640 --> 00:26:54,720 worn and I think at every point in the game, again, if you're I 484 00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:58,400 had a training that gave me the ability to perform in multiple 485 00:26:58,400 --> 00:27:01,760 types of environments. Maybe not everybody does right 486 00:27:02,160 --> 00:27:05,560 you're my my my wife is a doctor I don't know just how many 487 00:27:05,560 --> 00:27:08,040 different options she would have it faced with that challenge. 488 00:27:08,480 --> 00:27:11,880 But going all the way back to, I think one of the very first 489 00:27:11,880 --> 00:27:16,400 stories, maybe the first story of job decisions, you have the 490 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:21,520 story of of Kain and Hevel, and I think the Rashi on on Hevel 491 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,920 that he was a Roet zone. And I know that Jacob Wolf has 492 00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,960 written about the values of being a Roet zone in and of 493 00:27:27,960 --> 00:27:29,560 itself. For those who haven't read it, 494 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,000 you should look it up. Rashi says that Hevel was a Roet 495 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,000 zone because he recognized that the the ground was cursed. 496 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:38,680 So to do what was the most natural thing to do, which was 497 00:27:38,680 --> 00:27:41,280 to just work the land, He chose otherwise. 498 00:27:41,280 --> 00:27:44,640 And at the end of the story, you can see how that actually worked 499 00:27:44,640 --> 00:27:47,160 to his advantage. So sometimes you have to just 500 00:27:47,160 --> 00:27:48,480 look at the environment around you. 501 00:27:48,600 --> 00:27:52,440 But again, it's a combination of what you're good at and and 502 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,440 whether what you want to apply yourself to do is necessarily 503 00:27:55,440 --> 00:27:57,040 the most satisfying, the most beneficial. 504 00:27:57,080 --> 00:27:59,560 I did have the opportunity to work as a professional at 505 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:05,640 Maimonity school for almost five years and apply my managerial 506 00:28:05,640 --> 00:28:08,040 and business know how to the nonprofit environment. 507 00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:12,600 There again, I had actually been inspired and motivated by 508 00:28:13,240 --> 00:28:15,880 certain people who I had seen make that transition. 509 00:28:16,320 --> 00:28:20,360 And I think both in terms of contrasting the work environment 510 00:28:20,360 --> 00:28:22,000 20 years ago to what it is today. 511 00:28:22,360 --> 00:28:26,080 Certainly contrasting in the environment I live in today in 512 00:28:26,080 --> 00:28:29,800 Israel. The kind of that big wall 513 00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,840 between working for a for profit and nonprofit has come way, way 514 00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:36,400 down. And that even though, again, 515 00:28:36,800 --> 00:28:41,000 there's always a certain reality about what paycheck your 516 00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,480 employer can afford to give you. But depending on circumstance, I 517 00:28:44,480 --> 00:28:47,920 think everybody has the ability to, even if you're in the 518 00:28:47,920 --> 00:28:50,480 medical profession, there are areas to practice medicine that 519 00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:53,280 may not pay you as much and may not, you know, be as glorious. 520 00:28:53,640 --> 00:28:56,800 But you can really apply those skills and do things that create 521 00:28:56,800 --> 00:29:00,600 a different type of impact. And you have to really look at 522 00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:03,080 all those considerations at every point in time and not be 523 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:06,200 afraid that those decisions are going to be lifelong sentences. 524 00:29:06,640 --> 00:29:09,800 And I really, truly believe that one of the advantages for people 525 00:29:10,080 --> 00:29:14,560 starting now as a professional is that mix and that optionality 526 00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:17,840 along the way is only going to become more flexible. 527 00:29:18,120 --> 00:29:21,520 I think that's part of the the the technology world of the J 528 00:29:21,520 --> 00:29:24,840 Curve that we're living on. When I was growing up, it was 529 00:29:25,160 --> 00:29:28,720 pretty typical that people would stay with a company for 20 or 30 530 00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:31,880 or 40 years. And today, I think it's highly 531 00:29:31,880 --> 00:29:33,960 atypical that someone even stays with a company. 532 00:29:33,960 --> 00:29:35,920 When you're early in your career for more than two or three 533 00:29:35,920 --> 00:29:38,680 years, everybody is jumping to the next thing. 534 00:29:38,680 --> 00:29:41,840 You can apply for your next job literally while being on a zoom 535 00:29:41,840 --> 00:29:43,080 meeting. You can be on a LinkedIn 536 00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:46,640 interview on another screen and see that people should view that 537 00:29:46,640 --> 00:29:50,600 as a as both an opportunity and a little bit of a of an 538 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:55,680 indicator that you have much more ability today to focus on 539 00:29:55,680 --> 00:30:00,240 the right values of your career choice and not have to fear that 540 00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:02,720 you are going to sacrifice something 10 years down the 541 00:30:02,720 --> 00:30:05,640 road. So we talked a lot about 542 00:30:05,640 --> 00:30:08,840 different strategies and mindset shifts and taking control and 543 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:12,000 doing the best we can at putting ourselves in the best mindset in 544 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:15,120 the best situations that we can. But we did mention before that 545 00:30:15,200 --> 00:30:18,360 because Brokle runs this world and he has his ways of sending 546 00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:20,760 us messages. So do you have any stories where 547 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:22,880 in your life? Because Brokle reminded you how 548 00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:24,360 much he's in charge of everything that goes on. 549 00:30:24,520 --> 00:30:26,520 Always. And it happens, whether it's 550 00:30:26,520 --> 00:30:28,560 obvious or not. And sometimes it's obvious. 551 00:30:28,720 --> 00:30:32,560 I guess it's you're using the cold do D do fake model contrast 552 00:30:32,560 --> 00:30:34,680 between a life of fate and a life of destiny. 553 00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:36,560 Are you the object or you're the subject. 554 00:30:36,760 --> 00:30:39,360 For me there was definitely the most major. 555 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,800 There were two major actually episodes that I think I can look 556 00:30:42,800 --> 00:30:45,160 back on. The most obvious was referring 557 00:30:45,160 --> 00:30:47,240 to this kind of prior conversation, which maybe I 558 00:30:47,240 --> 00:30:50,200 should have mentioned at the time, that I was thinking about 559 00:30:50,200 --> 00:30:53,800 transitioning to something else after the tech bubble burst. 560 00:30:53,800 --> 00:30:58,160 And I didn't immediately go towards seeking A nonprofit job. 561 00:30:58,600 --> 00:31:02,760 But one of the things that was clearly on my mind was that I 562 00:31:02,760 --> 00:31:05,200 was doing a lot of travel between Boston and Los Angeles, 563 00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:09,960 And on a certain week in September of 2001, I had booked 564 00:31:09,960 --> 00:31:14,280 a ticket to continue my project in California, and I ended up 565 00:31:14,280 --> 00:31:16,920 rescheduling that trip. Because I didn't want to 566 00:31:16,920 --> 00:31:19,720 necessarily be in California during the week of Sleep close, 567 00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:23,960 I backed the trip up by a week. So I traveled on September 4th 568 00:31:24,000 --> 00:31:27,880 instead of September 11th from Boston to Los Angeles, and I 569 00:31:27,880 --> 00:31:30,640 don't think I need to tell much of the rest of that story. 570 00:31:31,080 --> 00:31:35,160 The fact that I personally felt like I had dodged a bullet to 571 00:31:35,280 --> 00:31:38,920 and recognize dramatic the the drama of what was going on 572 00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:43,480 around me, and the fact that we're always close to some sort 573 00:31:43,480 --> 00:31:46,360 of fate that we don't necessarily know, certainly did 574 00:31:46,360 --> 00:31:49,640 influence my decision not to take yet another job at the time 575 00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:51,240 that was going to require travel. 576 00:31:51,720 --> 00:31:54,880 It was why working at my modern school was so wonderful, even if 577 00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:57,880 the hours were very long. But I was always coming home at 578 00:31:57,880 --> 00:31:59,640 night, sometimes very late at night. 579 00:31:59,880 --> 00:32:05,160 And the other circumstance was in 2006, after the year after 580 00:32:05,160 --> 00:32:09,040 our family was on vacation in Israel in 2005, where we were 581 00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,000 having a vacation while the Dodger strip was being handed 582 00:32:12,000 --> 00:32:14,040 over to somebody else to control. 583 00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:17,680 A year later we were on another summer vacation in Cape Cod. 584 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:19,000 Sounds like we took a lot of vacation. 585 00:32:19,000 --> 00:32:20,280 Probably don't remember it that way. 586 00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,440 And while we were on vacation 6th, the Second Lebanon War was 587 00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:27,160 going on and one of our family members fell. 588 00:32:27,480 --> 00:32:30,640 And that's when my wife and I looked at each other and said 589 00:32:31,280 --> 00:32:33,920 time to get off the sidelines of Jewish history and get on to the 590 00:32:33,920 --> 00:32:37,440 playing field. And as hard it was challenging 591 00:32:37,440 --> 00:32:41,160 as it was to imagine continuing our careers at that point and 592 00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:44,560 rebuilding in Israel, it was something which, like you say, 593 00:32:44,720 --> 00:32:46,960 the world around us has to resonate with us. 594 00:32:46,960 --> 00:32:50,360 We have to hear the knocking on that door and we have to be all 595 00:32:50,360 --> 00:32:53,880 with listening, to be to the beat of our own heart and as a 596 00:32:53,880 --> 00:32:56,720 result, taking the next step in the direction we think is the 597 00:32:56,720 --> 00:32:58,360 right one. And hoping that we have the 598 00:32:58,360 --> 00:33:01,520 Siatha Dishmayats who go along with it in a way that comes out 599 00:33:01,520 --> 00:33:04,240 right for all of us, for our families, and for our for our 600 00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:07,520 own personal well-being. Thank you so much for all the 601 00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:09,320 wisdom you're constantly imparting on us, and especially 602 00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:10,880 for sitting down and sharing with us today. 603 00:33:11,440 --> 00:33:15,000 And I think I greatly appreciate what you are doing in this 604 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:18,080 effort with the podcasts. I think we live in a world of 605 00:33:18,680 --> 00:33:23,120 ridiculous amount of information and curated imagery of what made 606 00:33:23,120 --> 00:33:25,280 something a perfect work life outside of us. 607 00:33:25,760 --> 00:33:29,000 There's never been a more interesting time to be getting 608 00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,160 into the workspace, but also probably never a more 609 00:33:31,160 --> 00:33:34,480 challenging time to have the clarity on our decision making. 610 00:33:34,880 --> 00:33:38,720 And hopefully some of the other interviewees can do even a 611 00:33:38,720 --> 00:33:42,240 better job of guiding others to to take the right first step. 612 00:33:42,400 --> 00:33:45,760 And from there everybody should be blessed with Rahaba Hatslakha 613 00:33:45,760 --> 00:33:57,440 in their abode and their abode. Thank you so much for tuning in 614 00:33:57,440 --> 00:33:59,840 to start tank if you're still. Listening At this point, that 615 00:33:59,840 --> 00:34:02,240 means that you've enjoyed. Please take a moment to give us 616 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:04,040 a five star review. Make sure that you're. 617 00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:06,240 Subscribed and share this episode. 618 00:34:06,240 --> 00:34:09,199 With a few friends, I want to thank our production team Yoni 619 00:34:09,199 --> 00:34:11,400 Schwartz, Yitzuk Ribbon and Yossi Book. 620 00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:14,120 Until next week. Keep on stagging Cobra, thank. 621 00:34:16,400 --> 00:34:16,480 You.