The Gomar and Kedushan says that a father is obligated to teach
his son a trade so that he has the ability to earn a
respectable living. I really lucked out on this one.
Today we are speaking with my father COO of our crowd, a
Jerusalem based VC firm and Chairman of Kavanar, one of
Israel's leading mental health providers.
For the last 30 years. My father has created a unique
synergy between his tech career and his classic efforts, and I
think we can divide them broadly into 3 buckets #1.
Career Coaching and networking, #2 Nonprofit fundraising and
consulting, and #3 maybe most importantly, just being a
Mensch, listening, supporting, and pitching in wherever is
needed. Abe and I speak about these
issues all the time and I am so excited to let you in on the
conversation. My name is Yakko Wolf and this
is Start Tank. Hi, ABBA, Welcome to the show
and thank you for joining us. Thanks for having me.
This is fun. So you talk a lot to young
people about their careers and about their life.
And I feel like sometimes we can discuss having a successful
career and how to build that up. We can talk about having work
life balance and how to make sure that our family and other
values stay strong. And I tell you, those two
conversations at best are disconnected from each other and
at worst they can come into friction with each other.
So if you're talking about taking on a side hustle or going
for that NBA degree, staying late to take on other projects
in the office. So maybe we can try to figure
out a way to talk about these two topics not in a way which
are disconnected or in friction, but rather in a way where the
advice that builds a great career is the same advice and
creates A synergy with having a balanced life and life outside
of the office as well. So the entire journey in terms
of work and earning A Parnassa and earning a living obviously
is 1, which consumes great deal of our both emotions and energy,
especially at the earlier stages when we're unsure and uncertain
of what the future holds and everybody wants to feel good and
secure. That's a very human tendency
about their ability, not just in the short term but in the long
term, to be able to see their family in most cases, especially
in our population. Also in terms of living with
dignity, as many of our own Tilos, our own prayers referred
to. And like everything, obviously
it's a combination of our effort, RH Douglas and the
Hazbaka Pratis, divine supervision that we're blessed
with, which we don't control. So everybody has their own
strengths, everyone has their own tendencies, and everyone,
more more importantly, has their own values.
I think a lot of the conversation has to start about
what your values are and what your priorities are, and
hopefully if those two are in synergy, then the rest becomes,
I won't say easy, but a lot more simple to approach.
So if we specifically are talking about a general path, a
general career choice, nobody really knows for sure what
they'll be able to succeed in. But very often we start with
what we've seen at home, both in terms of what our parents or
friends or family do day by day, but also in terms of how they
handle it, right? So when someone grows up in an
environment where, you know, working endlessly around the
clock, logging in from home, as we say nowadays, not when I was
growing up, that also impacts the path that we take.
But it's important to always start by taking that piece of
paper and making sure that in front of our own eyes all the
time we're keeping our value sets in check and our priorities
in check. And just to that end, I do like
to tell people who are early on and starting out that our lives
are really a set of concentric circles.
You're always the at at the epicenter, but over time, things
change when you're single, maybe your immediate outside circle or
your parents or your friends. As you get married, hopefully it
becomes your wife. As you have children, they get
into the picture. So where exactly in the
concentric circles is your employer and your work life?
And keeping that radar screen clear is the key to ultimately
achieving that, if we want to call it work life balance, but
more appropriately the work life synergy as you properly use that
word. So you mentioned having
concentric circles, being aware of yourself and your values.
How does that not only helps prioritize and map out your work
and your life and all the different parts, but also make
your career great and successful?
So yeah, self-awareness has various elements to it.
When we're young, we generally are aware of what we're good at
and we're taking pride in what we good at and what we're good
at and the natural blessings or talents or skills that are
God-given. And both parents and kids I
think typically zone in on that. And I think that also does
correlate a little bit early stage in in your career to not
obsessing with what you love or what emotionally attracts you,
but where you can be effective, where you can be a builder,
where you can be a producer. And that really is how you begin
to build your own, not just your own work value, but it also does
allow you to then become more aware of whether that also
dovetails with what you enjoy and what you believe it.
So self-awareness, as I think is a combination of your own
strengths, your beliefs, and again, depending on at what
point in your life you're starting to work, what else
around you needs to be considered.
So those three elements are key. As an example, if I am able to
start to achieve in a work environment that I believe to be
suitable for me, and my choice is not purely based on how much
it pays, then I will ultimately be able to start to figure out,
and this only comes at a certain point in one's professional
evolution. OK, so now that I know what I
can do, what can I do with what I do and where else can I apply
those skills? And one might often be surprised
about, especially in the day and age that we live in given the
technology, given the flexibility, given wide range of
work environments to choose from, what else one can pursue
over time? And I think it's very important
not to pigeonhole oneself in a long term vision, but rather
cultivate over time what it is that that moves you and what it
is that that can create that impact.
Because ultimately that's the satisfaction at work, right?
We spend an enormous percentage of our lives over time involved
in work and work as we in Hebrew is avoda.
And yet we're always striving as religious Jews and religious
people to perform our avoda. And that's where the two can
meet. Where is it that my that all
that time that I invest is not just to see the paycheck in the
bank at the end of the week or the end of the month or at the
end of the day, But what is it that is giving?
What is it that I'm giving into greater society, greater
culture, community as a result of those efforts?
Because without that, I think one will for a long time not be
satisfied with that investment. And that satisfaction is really
what's going to make one, and I use air quotes happy in their
work. And happiness is something which
we have to be not counting on someone else to provide for us,
but something that we are accountable to create for
ourselves. That's true in every walk of
life, but certainly when it comes to work.
So if I. Understand correctly.
You're saying that there's no point in having a very specific
long term vision, but there is a lot of value in making sure that
in the early stages you're building skills so that as
things come along, you're able to apply those skills in the
more meaningful areas of life, even though the opportunity to
match your skills and your passions might not be there at
the very early stages. Did I understand that correctly?
I think so. The I know that every specific
case is going to be different. And again, it's important not to
not to blanket every unique individual circumstance in
general rules, but obviously many of our friends, many of our
family are getting themselves trained in law, getting
themselves trained in medicine. I mean people trained in
finance, getting themselves trained in technology and what
we choose to train in is clearly a choice that that does have
long term impact. You can't necessarily decide
after a year and a half of being a doctor that you want to become
a lawyer, although I know people have done that too.
But once you take that path, which again is generally built
on what it was you were good at in school or where your academic
performance was, was greatest. But even as you do that and even
as you're coming out of university or training online
and something, it's very important to keep in mind that
there really is no area in life in which you automatically are
signed up to a certain level of satisfaction.
And what I mean by that is that whether you're in the finance
world or the medical world or what have you, you have to put
yourself in a culture. You have to create for yourself
a culture in which your values and beliefs can not just
coexist, but ideally blend with with what it is that you are
expected to deliver and what it is that you're being compensated
to do. And it's not always easy, but it
is our individual responsibility.
The same way that when we build a home and when we raise our
children, there's lots of external factors that we can
point to and say if only that were different or if only our
community was different, that's not going to be a very
satisfying or successful formula in had the vartaloi Ella B.
We have to really understand that.
And each and every individual is accountable and capable of
creating that. Whether you want to say whether
it's true that every day you wake up and have another set of
decisions to make, That's obviously the case on a micro
level. But on a macro level, you choose
a direction, you choose a path, and then it takes a lot of work,
takes a lot of effort. But if one simply says I can't
help it, my work environment is full of Schwartz or it's a dog
eat dog or rat race, then you got to figure out whether that's
something which which can still fit the bill or whether you need
to move on, and whether that requires a small amount of
sacrifice or large amounts of sacrifice in the long run.
It's an absolutely, in my opinion, mandatory A sacrifice
that one needs to make, as in all the things that we do.
Can you give any examples of real life?
How the self-awareness of the concentric circles help you
navigate a difficult decision. So I'm now 30 years into my work
career, which I'm fortunate to have spent half in the US and
half in Israel, with a couple of years also in the United
Kingdom. So I've had a taste of a lot of
different environments. I have worked in the for profit
world. I worked in the nonprofit world
as a professional, and it hasn't been the neatest mapping of what
one would call a career trajectory.
But I think that's also a reflection of how I view the
same general principle of a career and a work life synergy.
Opportunities have come up. I'm very fortunate, very blessed
that I haven't really had to go too far and wide to seek those
opportunities. But when opportunities come up,
you do have some binary decisions to make.
So for example, when I started out with an engineering degree,
I felt like manufacturing was interesting to me.
Creating things, producing things that you could touch and
feel and see the outcome of was something which may be, you
know, based on my own personality, I felt was most
satisfying. But at some point, probably
about five or six years in, that's when certain technologies
were picking up in the enterprise area and realizing
that maybe the next step was going to be that what you're
producing is not necessarily something you can hold, but
something that you can measure. So it became something going
from more material to measurable and then after that.
So that I think that's one specific example.
So you mentioned your early career and how at some point you
shifted from manufacturing and engineering to software, but
going back to that early engineering part of your life,
can you tell us what the first stage in your career was when
you left college? Sure.
The first job I took was because I wanted to be able to pay for
my wife's engagement ring, my future wife's engagement ring.
So I interned during the summer of my after my junior year in a
manufacturing environment, which I really enjoyed.
My degree is in industrial engineering, which back then
meant the science of combining the man and the machine was
originated when the industrial revolution.
Efficiency, quality. How do you balance, be Human
touch with the resources to create something at scale?
And ironically, 30 years later, I find that to still be very
true. By the way, which is one of my
very first mentors used to say business would be easy if there
were no people involved. And I think an extension of
that, while that's very true and ironic, I think people are very
easy when business isn't involved, when people aren't
necessarily competing for the same position or trying to make
the bonus or trying to put their self over their environment,
That's there's always that element of trying to combine the
human need with the business need.
I will go on a slight digression here and say that in some ways
that's the difference between Kodesh and Hull, right.
Hull is anything that is material and in this world and
serving ourselves and Kodash is anything that's above the world
and something which we serve for others.
And so I think that's also not a bad compass to use.
Even if even if your work feels very material, the way you
approach that work can still have kedusha if it's not
constantly about whether it's satisfying yourself, whether
it's paying you the highest salary etcetera.
So in the answer to your question, coming out of
university, having had that manufacturing experience, while
there were offers coming from an Ivy League school having a
degree from Columbia to go into consulting and management
consulting, which was also tracked for a lot of industrial
engineers. The choice was to go into
manufacturing where I had to actually produce something
myself where I was on the line to test whether I could perform
and I could deliver. And that did ultimately more
than I ever thought it would, I think shape how I see other
people starting their careers today.
I work in venture capital, which is a very attractive area to a
lot of people because it it looks like that's where all of
the power sits. But I think that a very young
person starting right away into venture capital is a little bit
parallel to what it was in 1993 for someone in 19, four starting
to go into consulting. You're starting to tell people
whether what they're doing is valuable.
You're trying to tell people what to do when you yourself
haven't necessarily done it. When you yourself haven't
actually built your own business, it's pretty hard to
tell someone else what's right and wrong about the business
they're trying to build or how much value it's worth, which is
what venture capitalists have to do.
So you're looking back 30 years down the line at that decision,
but in the moment you had these offers from fancy consulting
companies and from a factory, what do you do when you had that
decision to make? So I started with my greatest
mentor and resource which was my father and but it also did take
into consideration watching some of my friends and how they were
going about the same process because I wasn't alone in that
journey. I'm graduated alongside a bunch
of other people with a lot of other backgrounds.
And actually knowing that their backgrounds and their cultures
and their values, their beliefs were not exactly the same as
mine was actually quite informed a lot of my own decision seeing
what kind of guided them to oh that's that's going to be in a
fancy office that's going to be allow me to do a lot of
traveling. Those were not the things that
necessarily drove me, and I was able to not only compare with my
own father's guidance, but contrast with some of the folks
who I was experiencing it alongside.
And you made a decision to go with manufacturing.
Where was that first job and what were you actually doing?
So my first job was in a a food manufacturing facility in New
Jersey called Interbaked Foods, which we basically baked
cookies, except we did them on factory lines that were in
conveyors that were two miles long.
We were baking them in the millions a day, made most of
America's Girl Scout cookies, and I was assigned to a project
to try to integrate some very advanced technology in the
packing and warehousing of lots and lots of boxes of cookies and
crackers on a daily basis. And you mentioned how obviously
the world has changed so much in the 30 years since that first
job. So you mentioned one take away
that you still live with, which is the difference between VCs
and startups, the difference between consultants and
manufacturers. Are there any other soft skills
or other takeaways that really guide you to this day from those
early experiences? Yeah, so I I was fortunate to be
put very early on in in the managerial role.
I didn't feel well. I guess I felt fortunate from a
self esteem standpoint, but the day-to-day work of trying to
manage certain people who were twice your age was not pleasant.
The challenge of trying to be a an Orthodox Jew in a in an
environment where most people weren't exactly keen on, on some
of our difference in backgrounds and that presented me with
tremendous challenges that I could not have been trained for.
That no university will teach. And I think that, and I refer to
the fact that every single person who who works around you
and certainly those who report to you, your first priority has
to be to try to understand what makes them tick, understand what
is important to them, and find a balance between getting out of
each individual the most that they can give you.
But that's not just about putting the right tools in front
of them. It's also giving them the
appreciation for what they're doing has meaning and how that
makes them feel about themselves.
So those are the soft skills that I think I like to believe
have driven me to this day. And those are the soft skills
that also make one should make one realize because not
everybody is a manager, there are people who can sit their
entire lives and just write code and do very well.
In terms of Parnassa, there are those who can go into actuarial
work and be extremely valuable just as a one man band.
And again, that comes back to your self-awareness, that comes
back to is that the type of is that the definition of is that
part of the definition of parnassa naka, parnassa kala una
kiya to you. To some it is, to some it isn't.
But again, each and every person has their area which they
believe they can impact. And in my case, I felt like the
ability to get the most out of people around me, the ability to
create the best blend of the human relationship and the
professional relationship. And I think as a result one of
the things that looking back I still have plenty to look
forward. But looking back certainly the
relationships that I built in the work environment, many have
lasted a lifetime and that's not something which I'll ever be
able to measure in a pension account or in a when looking
back at product that we delivered or results that we
delivered or. But it it's certainly over the
long run is what for me personally, created a lot of job
satisfaction to use of. Pretty lame cliche, what's?
I want to hold on this point just for one more minute.
It's really been special to see the relationships that you'll be
able to cultivate, starting from some very high profile
individuals, which we can't even mention here on recording all
the way down to the maintenance and cleaning staff institutions
that you work. All of them have a great love
and respect for you, but there's certain risks involved in
creating personal relationships with your Business Contact and
also with bringing friends and family from outside of work into
your business life. So do you have any advice on
that possible tension to the risks involved in mixing those
two? OK, so first of all a
correction. I would say far from everyone
who I worked with necessarily wanted to stay connected with me
for the long run. No matter how hard one works, to
try to create a an environment in which it's not what we call
net sum 0 where we can both win. There are some people, based on
their backgrounds and personal circumstances are not able to
accept that. And we can only do as much as we
do. And it takes sometimes for some
of us a long time to recognize that not every one of those
encounters is winnable. So we get over that as we get
older. But in terms of, you mentioned
some of the people I've worked with and mentors who I prefer
not to call out by name. But the one of them used to
quote the Godfather and say when Don Corleone says, hey, it's
business, nothing personal. And I know most of your audience
doesn't watch movies, but they may have heard that quote.
It's always personal. We can delude ourselves to say
you can separate them. But I think in the belief system
that we're brought up in and the education that we get, there is
nothing more primary than the personal relationship and the
respect that one has to give to every cell and Elo Kim, every
image of God that is put into every human being.
And the minute you lose sight of that, I believe you lose the
ability to stay on track. So you don't have to have been a
student of Wizards for him. There's plenty of people who
have not a shred of Jewish in them, not a shred of Torah in
them, who embody that in in their lives.
And it's also very important to recognize that part, which is
that it doesn't really matter whether they're Jewish or not,
whether they have a keep on their head or not.
I have some of my role models in that department.
Couldn't be farther from all of the above, but yet they had the
the innate ability to recognize that human dignity is above all.
And if you can stick to that consistently, despite some of
the challenges you run into at work, then ultimately I think
that's the satisfaction you enjoy in the long term.
So I want to shift gears for a minute.
You're a manager. You've hired and fired a whole
bunch of people. You speak to young people all
the time. So I want to ask you a question
of personal advice for a theoretical individual.
He did the last semester of college.
He's finishing a degree in business and marketing, and he's
looking for his first real job. He's done some side gigs and
marketing with nonprofits in the past.
Totally hypothetical of course, and he's his last semester.
He's looking ahead to his first full time job.
What should he be focusing on? So I believe that every
individual, even at a young age, has a story to tell and has a
picture to reveal to the person who's interviewing in a job
application process. Again, and it depends on whether
you're complying to a very large company or a very small company
or for profit or a nonprofit. There's all sorts of shapes and
sizes, but very often you submit your resume and it gets rejected
because you didn't necessarily tick all the boxes for what the
job requirements are. But at the end of the day,
you're going to be fortunate enough to get an interview.
And even if you don't, I would say before we even talk about
interviewing, if you talk about networking, then I think that
the most important part of seeking a job, whether it's at
the beginning or the middle or the end of a career, is about
your network and about making sure that whoever's out there
gets to know you, the person, as opposed to you, the professional
resume. I tell entry level applicants,
make sure that you look back on the things that you've done, and
almost each and everyone of us has done something, whether it's
in high school, whether it's in university, whether it's as a
volunteer, whether it's a busboy or waiter in camp.
There's something to be said for how you did the things that you
got involved in, whether you got paid for it, whether you were
volunteering for it, and figure out how to tell that story.
Figure out how to capture that in a way that is relatable to
other people and pretty hard to get specific because each and
every one of us has their own story.
But if you're somebody who you know, who volunteered or worked
for you outside and work with special needs kids, or was a
counselor in camp, or was the head of a club in high school,
or even if you were someone who coordinated Hogan Yeshiva, come
to a specific audience, what was it that you did?
What was it that you enjoyed about doing it?
What was it that drove you to do it in the 1st place?
It starts there and then with every you'll get your first
experience in one way or another.
And if you always go in with that approach, it will also help
you keep your own temperature as you're doing the next things
that you're doing and using that to that, that litmus test all
the time. Am I doing it for the right
reasons? Am I doing it in the right way?
Am I implementing my values in the things that I'm also keeping
busy with and spending time during the day to turn that
paycheck? And that can create a very solid
Your resume might be your foundation, but but what you're
doing with it is the the look and feel of the walls and the
windows around it. OK, we're about to our last part
of our conversation. You're also very active in the
nonprofit world. You're currently the chairman of
Kabanar, which is one of Israel's leading mental health
organizations. But it's not just a side gig.
At one point, you were full time in the nonprofit world.
Can you tell us how you shifted from the beginning of your
career in baking cookies and in software to nonprofit?
Yeah, it's it was both a function of personal
circumstance and professional circumstance.
We had just had our fourth child and the professional side was
requiring a lot of travel, which I felt was certainly impacting
potentially or feared that it was potentially impacting my my
presence in the house and my ability to be around for my kids
and I. It was also a time where I had
been in technology. I had been working for startup
that was acquired by a public company and the tech bubble
after the year 2000 had burst. I was very fortunate, I really
was. My job was stable, but the work
environment was had become a little bit.
Referring to what we talked about before, it was not feeling
very satisfying. A lot of people were working
just to keep their jobs watching.
A lot of people getting laid off wasn't very enjoyable.
So I had a sense that maybe that path was getting a little bit
worn and I think at every point in the game, again, if you're I
had a training that gave me the ability to perform in multiple
types of environments. Maybe not everybody does right
you're my my my wife is a doctor I don't know just how many
different options she would have it faced with that challenge.
But going all the way back to, I think one of the very first
stories, maybe the first story of job decisions, you have the
story of of Kain and Hevel, and I think the Rashi on on Hevel
that he was a Roet zone. And I know that Jacob Wolf has
written about the values of being a Roet zone in and of
itself. For those who haven't read it,
you should look it up. Rashi says that Hevel was a Roet
zone because he recognized that the the ground was cursed.
So to do what was the most natural thing to do, which was
to just work the land, He chose otherwise.
And at the end of the story, you can see how that actually worked
to his advantage. So sometimes you have to just
look at the environment around you.
But again, it's a combination of what you're good at and and
whether what you want to apply yourself to do is necessarily
the most satisfying, the most beneficial.
I did have the opportunity to work as a professional at
Maimonity school for almost five years and apply my managerial
and business know how to the nonprofit environment.
There again, I had actually been inspired and motivated by
certain people who I had seen make that transition.
And I think both in terms of contrasting the work environment
20 years ago to what it is today.
Certainly contrasting in the environment I live in today in
Israel. The kind of that big wall
between working for a for profit and nonprofit has come way, way
down. And that even though, again,
there's always a certain reality about what paycheck your
employer can afford to give you. But depending on circumstance, I
think everybody has the ability to, even if you're in the
medical profession, there are areas to practice medicine that
may not pay you as much and may not, you know, be as glorious.
But you can really apply those skills and do things that create
a different type of impact. And you have to really look at
all those considerations at every point in time and not be
afraid that those decisions are going to be lifelong sentences.
And I really, truly believe that one of the advantages for people
starting now as a professional is that mix and that optionality
along the way is only going to become more flexible.
I think that's part of the the the technology world of the J
Curve that we're living on. When I was growing up, it was
pretty typical that people would stay with a company for 20 or 30
or 40 years. And today, I think it's highly
atypical that someone even stays with a company.
When you're early in your career for more than two or three
years, everybody is jumping to the next thing.
You can apply for your next job literally while being on a zoom
meeting. You can be on a LinkedIn
interview on another screen and see that people should view that
as a as both an opportunity and a little bit of a of an
indicator that you have much more ability today to focus on
the right values of your career choice and not have to fear that
you are going to sacrifice something 10 years down the
road. So we talked a lot about
different strategies and mindset shifts and taking control and
doing the best we can at putting ourselves in the best mindset in
the best situations that we can. But we did mention before that
because Brokle runs this world and he has his ways of sending
us messages. So do you have any stories where
in your life? Because Brokle reminded you how
much he's in charge of everything that goes on.
Always. And it happens, whether it's
obvious or not. And sometimes it's obvious.
I guess it's you're using the cold do D do fake model contrast
between a life of fate and a life of destiny.
Are you the object or you're the subject.
For me there was definitely the most major.
There were two major actually episodes that I think I can look
back on. The most obvious was referring
to this kind of prior conversation, which maybe I
should have mentioned at the time, that I was thinking about
transitioning to something else after the tech bubble burst.
And I didn't immediately go towards seeking A nonprofit job.
But one of the things that was clearly on my mind was that I
was doing a lot of travel between Boston and Los Angeles,
And on a certain week in September of 2001, I had booked
a ticket to continue my project in California, and I ended up
rescheduling that trip. Because I didn't want to
necessarily be in California during the week of Sleep close,
I backed the trip up by a week. So I traveled on September 4th
instead of September 11th from Boston to Los Angeles, and I
don't think I need to tell much of the rest of that story.
The fact that I personally felt like I had dodged a bullet to
and recognize dramatic the the drama of what was going on
around me, and the fact that we're always close to some sort
of fate that we don't necessarily know, certainly did
influence my decision not to take yet another job at the time
that was going to require travel.
It was why working at my modern school was so wonderful, even if
the hours were very long. But I was always coming home at
night, sometimes very late at night.
And the other circumstance was in 2006, after the year after
our family was on vacation in Israel in 2005, where we were
having a vacation while the Dodger strip was being handed
over to somebody else to control.
A year later we were on another summer vacation in Cape Cod.
Sounds like we took a lot of vacation.
Probably don't remember it that way.
And while we were on vacation 6th, the Second Lebanon War was
going on and one of our family members fell.
And that's when my wife and I looked at each other and said
time to get off the sidelines of Jewish history and get on to the
playing field. And as hard it was challenging
as it was to imagine continuing our careers at that point and
rebuilding in Israel, it was something which, like you say,
the world around us has to resonate with us.
We have to hear the knocking on that door and we have to be all
with listening, to be to the beat of our own heart and as a
result, taking the next step in the direction we think is the
right one. And hoping that we have the
Siatha Dishmayats who go along with it in a way that comes out
right for all of us, for our families, and for our for our
own personal well-being. Thank you so much for all the
wisdom you're constantly imparting on us, and especially
for sitting down and sharing with us today.
And I think I greatly appreciate what you are doing in this
effort with the podcasts. I think we live in a world of
ridiculous amount of information and curated imagery of what made
something a perfect work life outside of us.
There's never been a more interesting time to be getting
into the workspace, but also probably never a more
challenging time to have the clarity on our decision making.
And hopefully some of the other interviewees can do even a
better job of guiding others to to take the right first step.
And from there everybody should be blessed with Rahaba Hatslakha
in their abode and their abode. Thank you so much for tuning in
to start tank if you're still. Listening At this point, that
means that you've enjoyed. Please take a moment to give us
a five star review. Make sure that you're.
Subscribed and share this episode.
With a few friends, I want to thank our production team Yoni
Schwartz, Yitzuk Ribbon and Yossi Book.
Until next week. Keep on stagging Cobra, thank.
You.