1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,720 You are about to hear a conversation with a world around 2 00:00:02,720 --> 00:00:05,680 posting whose she earned have 10s of thousands of weekly 3 00:00:05,680 --> 00:00:07,400 listeners, you might be wondering. 4 00:00:07,520 --> 00:00:10,440 That's very nice, but this is Stark Tank, which is about the 5 00:00:10,440 --> 00:00:13,200 challenges and opportunities of being a mentor in the workforce. 6 00:00:13,280 --> 00:00:16,600 What's the connection? Well, our guest today, Rick and 7 00:00:16,600 --> 00:00:19,480 Flip Breidowitz, went to Harvard Law School, started out as an 8 00:00:19,480 --> 00:00:22,160 attorney, and continued on to a career as a tenured law 9 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,360 professor. We spoke about his secular 10 00:00:24,360 --> 00:00:27,080 career, his journey to the Ravenant, and what he thinks is 11 00:00:27,160 --> 00:00:29,880 the most underrated aspect of our spiritual lives. 12 00:00:30,600 --> 00:00:32,920 Before we begin this week's episode, I want to share a quick 13 00:00:32,920 --> 00:00:35,680 announcement. Purim is 6 weeks away and 14 00:00:35,680 --> 00:00:38,920 honestly, I have never learned Hills Purim properly, but that 15 00:00:38,920 --> 00:00:41,480 is about to change. I have signed up the virtual 16 00:00:41,480 --> 00:00:44,160 halakha program Perm Leemood, which will allow me to learn the 17 00:00:44,160 --> 00:00:46,800 soggies inside with a structured, clear framework. 18 00:00:47,320 --> 00:00:50,600 VHP developed a digital platform that allows for flexibility and 19 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:54,040 integration into our busy lives. This is for Stark learners who 20 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:57,000 are looking for the real deal. The Perm course is free for a 21 00:00:57,000 --> 00:00:59,720 limited time, so if you want to join me, click on the link in 22 00:00:59,720 --> 00:01:01,520 the show notes. I would also like to thank 23 00:01:01,520 --> 00:01:03,840 Virtual Halacha program for sponsoring this episode. 24 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,400 Now it's time for this week's conversation with Ravi Itzhak 25 00:01:07,400 --> 00:01:10,120 Rightowitz. My name is Jacob Wolf and this 26 00:01:10,360 --> 00:01:28,400 is Stark Tank, so it's a great honor to have 27 00:01:28,400 --> 00:01:29,640 you here. And thank you so much for 28 00:01:29,640 --> 00:01:32,320 joining us today. Thank you so much for having me. 29 00:01:33,440 --> 00:01:37,120 Our goal today is to trace your journey as a row of Atomic 30 00:01:37,120 --> 00:01:39,400 Hochman, but also a professional who made a Parnassa. 31 00:01:39,880 --> 00:01:41,320 So let's start from the very, very beginning. 32 00:01:41,320 --> 00:01:43,320 Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and where 33 00:01:43,320 --> 00:01:47,320 you grew up? So I grew up in the Hartford CT, 34 00:01:48,040 --> 00:01:50,640 which had a very small Orthodox community. 35 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:55,640 It was not a yeshiva town per SE, but it was a very, very warm 36 00:01:55,640 --> 00:02:00,480 and loving loving place. And my parents sent me to the 37 00:02:00,480 --> 00:02:04,760 local day school and in those days there was no Salman Sheftu, 38 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:06,960 there's no Conservative or Reform day schools. 39 00:02:06,960 --> 00:02:12,240 So as a result, even the Orthodox Toram Soros schools had 40 00:02:12,240 --> 00:02:14,120 largely non schomer Shabbos kids. 41 00:02:14,120 --> 00:02:17,800 So most of my class, it was a Coed school #1 and most of my 42 00:02:17,800 --> 00:02:19,520 classmates were not shomer Shabbos. 43 00:02:20,120 --> 00:02:23,640 But you know, one of the things you learn in smaller towns is 44 00:02:23,640 --> 00:02:25,640 you get along, you respect people. 45 00:02:25,720 --> 00:02:28,520 I think there's some very valuable lessons there. 46 00:02:29,160 --> 00:02:33,640 And amazingly enough, although most of the kids in the day 47 00:02:33,640 --> 00:02:37,960 school were not shomer Shabbos at all, many of them, I'm not 48 00:02:37,960 --> 00:02:41,920 sure if it's a majority, but many of them went on to yeshivos 49 00:02:41,920 --> 00:02:45,680 after after graduating 8th grade, whether it was near 50 00:02:45,680 --> 00:02:48,680 Israel, Baltimore which I went to, which was very popular for 51 00:02:48,680 --> 00:02:52,920 Hartford or why you, or Philadelphia or or Scranton. 52 00:02:53,560 --> 00:02:55,840 And this was because there were certain rabbis. 53 00:02:55,840 --> 00:02:59,360 That was a Rabbi Bats if Weidl of Rough in particular, who had 54 00:02:59,360 --> 00:03:03,560 such a sweet, non judgmental way of talking to people that he 55 00:03:03,560 --> 00:03:07,520 literally could go into somebody on Shabbos who was watching TV 56 00:03:07,920 --> 00:03:10,440 and just talk to them about sending their kid to yeshiva. 57 00:03:11,200 --> 00:03:14,080 And he was remarkably successful. 58 00:03:14,120 --> 00:03:16,160 That that taught me a very important lesson. 59 00:03:16,760 --> 00:03:21,960 That kind of kindness and openness is much more effective 60 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:25,240 in transforming people than simply being critical and 61 00:03:25,240 --> 00:03:28,920 judgmental. So I went to near Israel because 62 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,920 there were many, many Hartford boys who had gone to near Israel 63 00:03:31,920 --> 00:03:33,840 and they would learn with us in the summer. 64 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:37,240 And I really was very excited about that and we had an annual 65 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,800 class trip. So I visited Neri Israel in 6th, 66 00:03:40,800 --> 00:03:44,720 6th grade, 7th grade and 8th grade and I really was so much 67 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:46,520 taken. It was like the highlight of my 68 00:03:46,840 --> 00:03:49,920 of my ear. So eventually I went to Neri. 69 00:03:49,920 --> 00:03:53,280 So my parents were originally very reluctant because they they 70 00:03:53,280 --> 00:03:55,840 had thought that Neri Israel kids didn't go to college, they 71 00:03:55,840 --> 00:03:58,480 didn't become professionals, although that's not entirely 72 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:01,800 true. And they were going to send me 73 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:05,000 the Shiva diversity, which I imagine would have been OK also, 74 00:04:05,000 --> 00:04:07,760 but but I really wanted. My heart was set at Neri Israel 75 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:11,560 and I had some rabbis who were great, great advocates for me. 76 00:04:12,200 --> 00:04:17,040 But I my my ability to go was conditional on my pursuing 77 00:04:17,040 --> 00:04:20,640 college and and a professional education, which is one of the 78 00:04:20,640 --> 00:04:24,200 reasons why I felt I had to do what what I did. 79 00:04:24,760 --> 00:04:27,520 And that really interesting, the fact that near you Stroll was 80 00:04:27,520 --> 00:04:29,720 connected to the smaller communities like Hartford. 81 00:04:29,880 --> 00:04:32,320 And so you had that presence in your life already beforehand. 82 00:04:32,680 --> 00:04:33,840 So you want to go to near Austral. 83 00:04:33,840 --> 00:04:35,720 Your parents were a little bit reluctant, but you ended up 84 00:04:35,720 --> 00:04:37,440 going. So how did that transition go 85 00:04:37,440 --> 00:04:39,120 from Hartford moving on to near Austral? 86 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:42,800 So I came to near Austral for high school. 87 00:04:42,800 --> 00:04:48,800 I I was a 14 year old boy in 1967 or 8. 88 00:04:48,800 --> 00:04:51,960 I'm not sure I have to go back and compute my age and I 89 00:04:51,960 --> 00:04:56,640 remember that I was so homesick. I was so heartbroken at being 90 00:04:56,640 --> 00:04:58,920 separated. Of Connecticut to Baltimore is 91 00:04:58,920 --> 00:05:03,760 around 300 mile journey and I had never really been away from 92 00:05:03,760 --> 00:05:07,280 home before and I remember crying on the phone to my 93 00:05:07,280 --> 00:05:11,520 parents and they said, you know, we think you should stay again. 94 00:05:11,520 --> 00:05:14,320 It was such a lovely thing they said, but if you want us to 95 00:05:14,320 --> 00:05:15,720 come, we will come and pick you up. 96 00:05:15,720 --> 00:05:18,360 But you know, we think it'll be better for you to stay. 97 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:20,760 And that was a remarkable sacrifice. 98 00:05:20,760 --> 00:05:24,200 In fact, my father told me later that after they got off the 99 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:28,040 phone, they were crying because they they they really wanted me 100 00:05:28,040 --> 00:05:30,960 to be with them, but they understood what was the 101 00:05:30,960 --> 00:05:34,240 important thing. I didn't know that until until 102 00:05:34,360 --> 00:05:37,560 later. And I was in Nerysreal, and 103 00:05:37,680 --> 00:05:41,480 Nerysreal is, was and is a college yeshiva in the sense 104 00:05:41,480 --> 00:05:44,600 that Buckram are allowed to go to college. 105 00:05:45,040 --> 00:05:49,080 Meaning at night there's there was a bus that took us twice a 106 00:05:49,080 --> 00:05:53,080 week for classes and the like. Now it's a little different. 107 00:05:53,080 --> 00:05:56,120 Now the yeshiva itself can offer a bachelor's, so you can go to 108 00:05:56,120 --> 00:05:58,840 Graduate School without ever taking secular courses. 109 00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:02,800 In my day, the yeshiva gave you 50% of your credits, but you had 110 00:06:02,800 --> 00:06:07,240 to get the remainder from Johns Hopkins or Loyola or Towson or 111 00:06:07,240 --> 00:06:10,040 something like that. So I was under the old system 112 00:06:11,000 --> 00:06:15,560 and no Brooke Hashem I I I learned to Nerysreal. 113 00:06:15,760 --> 00:06:19,120 I also went to college along with, you know, most of my my 114 00:06:19,120 --> 00:06:23,800 fellow students. I got a Smirka from Rudiman 115 00:06:23,800 --> 00:06:26,480 Sequino le Brecha, one of the Godoli Adore, the founding 116 00:06:26,480 --> 00:06:33,520 Rosheshiva of Nerysreal. But then at some point I 117 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:35,600 finished college. I had smirka. 118 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:37,840 The question would be what should I do? 119 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,960 Before we move on, I just want to ask about your Smirka 'cause 120 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,280 you know, Aruv and you said that you got Smirka back in the 121 00:06:43,280 --> 00:06:46,040 Israel, So what did that entail? Yeah, so. 122 00:06:46,760 --> 00:06:50,960 So now Israel does not really have an organized Smirka program 123 00:06:50,960 --> 00:06:53,560 to this very day. They don't unlike let's say Yu. 124 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:58,760 So in their Israel, Smirka basically means that you took 125 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:04,960 time off to learn Yoridea, no say Kalem in Taruvo, 126 00:07:04,960 --> 00:07:10,600 Spaserbachalov, Malika, sometimes Shakita, Veilas and 127 00:07:10,600 --> 00:07:13,640 the like. And that could be in addition to 128 00:07:13,640 --> 00:07:16,000 your regular Sedarim. Or that could be you could 129 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:21,440 replace a seder with Yoridea. So really we didn't have Shiorim 130 00:07:21,440 --> 00:07:23,000 in Yoridea. And you know, one could argue 131 00:07:23,000 --> 00:07:27,240 that that wasn't the best way of getting Samira, but we simply 132 00:07:27,240 --> 00:07:31,000 learnt the Shukranoric and the no, say Kaylin and sometimes the 133 00:07:31,000 --> 00:07:34,120 Gomorrah sugias, which is the, you know, the most important way 134 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,400 of learning it. And then we got bikinis. 135 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,480 So we did get Buffinis. We got Buffinis from the Rosh 136 00:07:39,480 --> 00:07:43,480 Hashima's Guenel of Breva and the main Bokraine was also a 137 00:07:43,480 --> 00:07:56,960 great man. My Rebhie why you and other 138 00:07:56,960 --> 00:08:00,560 other places have more of an organized program where they 139 00:08:00,560 --> 00:08:03,560 have courses in counseling and you know various other issues. 140 00:08:03,920 --> 00:08:08,760 Rebut him a face in my case and I think every nerys almost must 141 00:08:09,320 --> 00:08:11,680 that aspect was on the job experience. 142 00:08:11,680 --> 00:08:14,840 We need to say we didn't get it so much in yeshiva. 143 00:08:14,840 --> 00:08:17,000 We got it as we took the positions. 144 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:20,520 So we got it. I will say that Nerysville as a 145 00:08:20,560 --> 00:08:24,800 Yeshiva and all of the Rabayim were models of interpersonal 146 00:08:24,800 --> 00:08:28,560 sensitivities, although they didn't give us a course in how 147 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,760 to counsel people or or or or or whenever. 148 00:08:32,080 --> 00:08:37,400 But I think we, we did absorb a lot of positive attitudes from 149 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,039 the Ribeyam themselves, from the Rashiva himself. 150 00:08:40,480 --> 00:08:44,480 So I guess you could say in a very indirect way that was kind 151 00:08:44,480 --> 00:08:48,240 of a Smecha training program, but there was no organized 152 00:08:48,240 --> 00:08:49,600 courses. I mean, there were no Shih Ori 153 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:52,240 Mignarradea. There were no shihorim in 154 00:08:52,600 --> 00:08:55,440 management of a show. It was just learning the 155 00:08:55,720 --> 00:08:57,680 Helencos and then getting tested on them. 156 00:08:59,320 --> 00:09:01,720 And you mentioned that at a certain point in your time in 157 00:09:01,760 --> 00:09:04,040 Austral, there was an inflection point where you sort of had to 158 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:06,160 decide what the next stage was going to be. 159 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:07,800 So can you tell us about what happened there? 160 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,600 It was a confluence of a lot of different factors. 161 00:09:11,960 --> 00:09:16,280 And number one, I had gotten Samika and I had gotten my 162 00:09:16,280 --> 00:09:21,480 bachelor's from college #2. I was thinking about my parental 163 00:09:21,480 --> 00:09:25,080 commitment, my commitment to my parents, who very much, I mean, 164 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,440 listen, a lot of people simply change their mind and say, hey, 165 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:32,840 you know, I'm in yeshiva, I'm going to stay #3I myself had a 166 00:09:32,840 --> 00:09:37,160 certain restlessness at that stage of my life where I needed 167 00:09:37,160 --> 00:09:41,320 to explore different options. I I wasn't sure at that point in 168 00:09:41,320 --> 00:09:46,240 my life whether full time learning was the the direction 169 00:09:46,240 --> 00:09:50,160 that I should take or I needed to be involved in some secular 170 00:09:50,760 --> 00:09:53,320 pursuit. And that, of course was really 171 00:09:53,320 --> 00:09:58,080 the essence of the dilemma. My many of my Russia Shivas felt 172 00:09:58,080 --> 00:10:01,480 they wanted me to stay in full time learning. 173 00:10:01,760 --> 00:10:04,280 They didn't want me to leave the yeshiva, they didn't want me to 174 00:10:04,280 --> 00:10:08,240 pursue a secular career. It was a very, very agonizing 175 00:10:08,760 --> 00:10:12,560 decision, a very difficult decision, my Russia, Shiva 176 00:10:12,560 --> 00:10:15,280 insisted. Then I talked to Raviakov 177 00:10:15,280 --> 00:10:17,160 Kamenetsky, He's a Colonel of Ravi Yadav. 178 00:10:17,160 --> 00:10:19,800 Kamenetsky is was Ravidovan's first cousin. 179 00:10:20,280 --> 00:10:23,680 They were very close. And Raviakov, of course, was 180 00:10:23,680 --> 00:10:27,760 known as not just a guttal Batora, but just a very wise 181 00:10:27,760 --> 00:10:31,400 person who was exceptional, you know, understanding people and 182 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:34,240 giving Asus. So Ravridovan wanted me to talk 183 00:10:34,240 --> 00:10:36,840 to Raviakov Kamenetsky and I remember going up to Muncie. 184 00:10:36,840 --> 00:10:40,720 I think I was 22 at the time. That was a pretty long time ago 185 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:45,360 and I was just amazed Raviakov. I thought Raviakov would talk to 186 00:10:45,360 --> 00:10:49,520 me for 10 minutes or something. He gave me 3 hours of his time 187 00:10:49,520 --> 00:10:55,000 sitting in shirt sleeves at his kitchen table and he acted as if 188 00:10:55,000 --> 00:10:57,000 he had nothing else to do in the world. 189 00:10:57,000 --> 00:11:00,600 It was just the most amazing thing he spoke with the 190 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:03,840 kindness, with humor, with a constant smile. 191 00:11:04,560 --> 00:11:07,840 And the one thing I remember which is still very exceptional 192 00:11:07,840 --> 00:11:11,440 to me is that I came with a particular question about going 193 00:11:11,440 --> 00:11:14,440 to law school. And you know, he never answered 194 00:11:14,440 --> 00:11:18,080 the question. He just wanted to be sure that I 195 00:11:18,080 --> 00:11:22,800 understood all of the different factors and he wanted me to come 196 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,480 to the realization of what is the right resolution. 197 00:11:25,480 --> 00:11:30,960 For me. And to me, this is a model of 198 00:11:30,960 --> 00:11:35,120 how a parent should behave with their children and how a Rep 199 00:11:35,200 --> 00:11:37,960 should behave with this. I'll need him not to kind of 200 00:11:37,960 --> 00:11:44,280 micromanage, not to no demand a certain conformity, but to give 201 00:11:44,280 --> 00:11:48,640 the person the kalem, the utensils to be able to come to 202 00:11:48,640 --> 00:11:52,400 their own inner understanding. So Yaakov would say that you 203 00:11:52,400 --> 00:11:54,320 think of this, and what about this? 204 00:11:54,320 --> 00:11:56,200 And what about this? And what about that? 205 00:11:56,760 --> 00:12:00,240 But he never told me to go and he never told me not to go. 206 00:12:00,720 --> 00:12:05,680 And the Mascanas Hadjvarim was. I'm not telling you what to do, 207 00:12:05,680 --> 00:12:10,520 but but whatever you do you have to use in your Abbotta Sashem. 208 00:12:10,840 --> 00:12:15,320 You cannot have a dichotomy between a professional life and 209 00:12:15,320 --> 00:12:19,240 a spiritual life. You have to bring spirituality 210 00:12:19,600 --> 00:12:25,040 into every aspect of your life. And this really was a you sowed 211 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:29,160 God Alma oath. I have to admit that some of my 212 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,720 rebellion in Derry, Israel, didn't believe my account of 213 00:12:32,720 --> 00:12:37,040 that conversation because it may not have been what they would 214 00:12:37,040 --> 00:12:39,520 have expected. Yakov spoken Yiddish. 215 00:12:39,520 --> 00:12:42,240 My Yiddish wasn't great. Maybe I misunderstood, but I'm. 216 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:48,440 I'm pretty sure I got the gist of of of Raviakov's point and it 217 00:12:48,440 --> 00:12:50,640 was remarkable. It really was one of the great, 218 00:12:50,640 --> 00:12:55,640 great experiences of my life to see the Metos of the God old, to 219 00:12:55,640 --> 00:12:59,640 see his kindness, to see his wisdom and to see the fact that 220 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:01,560 he wasn't going to tell me what to do. 221 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:07,600 He wanted me to kind of be Mevarer, to clarify my own 222 00:13:07,600 --> 00:13:12,120 question, and his job was to be a facilitator, to bring out 223 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:16,720 those Coke hosts from within me. That's really a remarkable thing 224 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:21,480 because we often have a tendency to try to remake people in our 225 00:13:21,480 --> 00:13:27,000 image, and Raviakov showed me that that is not necessarily the 226 00:13:27,000 --> 00:13:32,720 Dara Katora. So, so once in a way, he made 227 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:36,360 the question harder, because by telling, by essentially telling 228 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:41,280 me it's up to me, you know, I didn't have the solace of being 229 00:13:41,280 --> 00:13:44,880 told what to do. But at that point I I did decide 230 00:13:44,880 --> 00:13:49,760 that I needed to just explore those other options as well as 231 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,680 fulfill what I thought was my obligation to my parents. 232 00:13:52,960 --> 00:13:55,440 I don't mean a halakhic obligation, Technically Tom 233 00:13:55,440 --> 00:13:57,240 Mater would override, keep it up the aim. 234 00:13:57,560 --> 00:14:00,720 So I'm not suggesting any Sakhalaka here, but for me at 235 00:14:00,720 --> 00:14:05,720 least, I did feel a a moral obligation and I went to law 236 00:14:05,720 --> 00:14:07,760 school. I was there for for three years. 237 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:16,160 That interaction with Raviakov Kamenetsky is remarkable on so 238 00:14:16,160 --> 00:14:18,800 many levels. If I understood correctly, three 239 00:14:18,800 --> 00:14:21,680 things happened there. Number one is you got a sense of 240 00:14:21,680 --> 00:14:24,680 personal responsibility that you can't outsource these decisions. 241 00:14:25,080 --> 00:14:28,840 #2 You got the self-confidence of a Godel Batora that you have 242 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,920 the ability and the competence to make those decisions. 243 00:14:31,720 --> 00:14:35,680 And that leads to #3, which is you were set up in a way that 244 00:14:35,680 --> 00:14:38,040 wherever you ended up in life, you were always going to feel 245 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,000 like you're in a La Catrilla situation because there's no 246 00:14:41,320 --> 00:14:44,080 right and wrong answer. Then whatever you end up 247 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:46,640 deciding is going to be la Catrilla and you'll never feel 248 00:14:46,800 --> 00:14:48,640 like your life is a form of bidievid. 249 00:14:48,800 --> 00:14:52,680 Did I understand that correctly? I think that is correct and I I 250 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:55,480 also want to point out that the the, although I don't think 251 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,520 Raviakov used the lunch on, but I have heard that very phrase 252 00:15:00,360 --> 00:15:02,680 that your life has to be la Katifela. 253 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:07,160 I heard it from another pivotal, legendary figure of Neri's 254 00:15:07,160 --> 00:15:08,600 realm. That was Harevnav's Ali 255 00:15:08,600 --> 00:15:13,120 Neuberger Zicardo Lebrafa, who was Reverterman's right hand man 256 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:15,800 in terms of being the executive director of Neri Strael. 257 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:20,240 Very, very legendary person. And he would constantly tell the 258 00:15:20,240 --> 00:15:26,160 Tamidum of Neri Israel, your life has to be a la Katsila and 259 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:33,640 not a Beaday for making a Kiddush Hashem and serving Claw 260 00:15:33,640 --> 00:15:36,880 Israel. So you're transitioning from 261 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:39,840 near Israel to Harvard, and you have this mandate from Avako 262 00:15:39,840 --> 00:15:43,280 Kamenetsky to find ways to incorporate Avodah Hashem and 263 00:15:43,280 --> 00:15:45,520 making a Kiddush Hashem at that point in time. 264 00:15:45,520 --> 00:15:47,880 Did you have any idea what that might end up looking like? 265 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:51,400 Or was it sort of this journey similar to Avram Avinu where he 266 00:15:51,400 --> 00:15:54,200 was going to a land by Carswara? Who said when you get there, 267 00:15:54,200 --> 00:15:56,600 you'll realize that you got there without really knowing the 268 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:00,680 destination, without a clearly delineated path from point A to 269 00:16:00,680 --> 00:16:03,360 point B? You know, at the time I I didn't 270 00:16:03,360 --> 00:16:06,000 have a clear sense of what would happen because there were a lot 271 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,680 of different things that could happen, many of which did 272 00:16:08,680 --> 00:16:10,880 happen. It could be they'll go to law 273 00:16:10,880 --> 00:16:13,800 school and have a law degree, but then I'll you know be full 274 00:16:13,800 --> 00:16:15,560 time Rob on this or full time Dina. 275 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:20,560 It could be that my prognosa will be from law and then I will 276 00:16:20,560 --> 00:16:24,080 learn and teach Torah on the side as an avocation. 277 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:27,840 I'm meaning I didn't have a clear Mossad of of what my 278 00:16:27,840 --> 00:16:32,440 career path would be. I was aware of the different 279 00:16:32,440 --> 00:16:36,160 choices and you know, perhaps, maybe through laziness or 280 00:16:36,160 --> 00:16:39,240 inertia, I kind of said, well, let's see, let's see what 281 00:16:39,240 --> 00:16:41,160 happens. Let's see where this journey 282 00:16:41,520 --> 00:16:44,920 takes us. I had, I think, I think I had 283 00:16:45,520 --> 00:16:51,040 good cavanos in terms of wanting to do something for the Jewish 284 00:16:51,040 --> 00:16:53,240 people or for at least the community. 285 00:16:54,000 --> 00:16:58,360 But I didn't have a specific sense at the time where this 286 00:16:58,360 --> 00:17:01,880 would leave lead. But you know, as I say, as as I 287 00:17:01,880 --> 00:17:04,319 progressed, even in law school, things became a little more 288 00:17:04,319 --> 00:17:08,400 clear to me simply because different opportunities fell 289 00:17:08,400 --> 00:17:11,520 into my lap. Whether it was learning with 290 00:17:11,520 --> 00:17:14,960 people. Whether it was I I remember I 291 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,160 was a relatively close to the bust of the rabbis according to 292 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:21,000 the Raja Rev Levitzer Karowitz in Boston. 293 00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:24,839 And a few times even as a law student, I had the honor of 294 00:17:25,319 --> 00:17:28,240 substituting for him in a Demoris year that he gave. 295 00:17:28,240 --> 00:17:30,240 You know, I was not a substitute for him, obviously. 296 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:32,520 But whatever he did, Demoris Sharon Shabbos. 297 00:17:32,520 --> 00:17:36,640 So I, I, I did that. So I found myself being nim 298 00:17:36,640 --> 00:17:40,160 shocked towards teaching, towards being involved in 299 00:17:40,160 --> 00:17:47,160 Torafino in various ways. So that at least convinced me or 300 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:52,960 persuaded me that whatever my career would be, whatever my job 301 00:17:52,960 --> 00:17:57,040 would be, there would be a very strong component of of teaching 302 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,320 Torah. That's that's really what I 303 00:17:58,320 --> 00:18:02,720 loved, what I love to do. And you mentioned how in Boston 304 00:18:02,720 --> 00:18:04,520 you had a connection with the Boston Rebbe. 305 00:18:04,680 --> 00:18:07,640 Boston is my old hometown and people have a misconception that 306 00:18:07,640 --> 00:18:10,560 Boston is a city of crazy drivers and sports teams. 307 00:18:10,760 --> 00:18:13,960 But they're has always been a very strong to our presence in 308 00:18:13,960 --> 00:18:15,400 the city. So maybe you can tell us a 309 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,600 little bit about your recollections of the Jewish 310 00:18:17,600 --> 00:18:19,520 community of Boston back when you spent time there. 311 00:18:21,000 --> 00:18:23,200 Well, it's a few things. You know, my first year of law 312 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:26,000 school, I lived in the Young Israel neighborhood. 313 00:18:27,000 --> 00:18:29,160 Well, I lived in Brookline, MA. That's the worst thing I want to 314 00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,440 say. I did not live in Cambridge. 315 00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:35,040 So you know The Maine as you know The Maine Orthodox 316 00:18:35,040 --> 00:18:38,960 community of the Boston area is concentrated in Brookline and 317 00:18:38,960 --> 00:18:43,840 Brighton at least that it was as so my first year of law school I 318 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:47,880 lived in the young Israel community near Green Street and 319 00:18:47,880 --> 00:18:50,480 the Rev at the time was actually a very great man. 320 00:18:50,480 --> 00:18:53,080 It was knifter fairly recently reviewed the Kellemer. 321 00:18:53,680 --> 00:18:57,960 He was a young Rev then his most of his career he spent in 322 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:01,080 Northwoodmere. But I knew him as a young Rev 323 00:19:01,080 --> 00:19:04,600 and I remember immediately I had just come from there Israel. 324 00:19:04,960 --> 00:19:08,320 So maybe I had the arrogance of the Yeshiva Bucker who thinks 325 00:19:08,320 --> 00:19:13,560 that Shilraban and Maram Maratha and I I quickly discovered, I 326 00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,680 quickly discovered what a phenomenal Thomas Tougham. 327 00:19:16,680 --> 00:19:19,000 He was like the first day that that I met him. 328 00:19:19,480 --> 00:19:22,160 So that was a very, very impressive person. 329 00:19:22,200 --> 00:19:24,480 But he was also very kind person. 330 00:19:24,480 --> 00:19:28,720 And there's a recent biography Hanuf Teller wrote about Rev 331 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:30,400 Kellemer. And the stories there are 332 00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,720 really, really, really amazing. I can't say I knew him well and 333 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:37,440 I didn't know most of those types of stories, but that's the 334 00:19:37,440 --> 00:19:41,040 type of person he was for the second and third year of law 335 00:19:41,040 --> 00:19:44,160 school. I was near the bust, near bust, 336 00:19:44,160 --> 00:19:48,160 near show and I was Zoka to know the bust near Rebbe. 337 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,720 I spent many, many shop me and 100 other people. 338 00:19:50,720 --> 00:19:55,520 I spent many, many Shabbos by the bust near Rebbe and I knew 339 00:19:55,520 --> 00:19:58,480 his son who's now the busting rebbe in Harnow for Mayor 340 00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:00,960 Horowitz. I knew him as even as a single 341 00:20:00,960 --> 00:20:03,880 person. He had gotten married while I 342 00:20:03,880 --> 00:20:07,360 was there. And the one thing I'll say about 343 00:20:07,360 --> 00:20:10,960 the Bustner Rebbe, which is quite amazing, you know, the 344 00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:12,960 Buster Rebbe was of course a Thomas Crockham. 345 00:20:13,320 --> 00:20:15,880 But when the Buster Rebbe would talk, it would tend to be 346 00:20:15,880 --> 00:20:20,720 relatively simple thoughts. He did not speak in complicated 347 00:20:21,840 --> 00:20:25,440 way, convoluted ways. And I always wondered that the 348 00:20:25,440 --> 00:20:28,560 people who came to his Shabbos table were Harvard, MIT. 349 00:20:28,560 --> 00:20:30,240 They were like super intellectuals. 350 00:20:30,600 --> 00:20:34,320 Why were they coming to this relatively simple experience? 351 00:20:35,080 --> 00:20:39,160 But then I realized very quickly that it was the warmth, It was 352 00:20:39,160 --> 00:20:42,960 the caring once again, kind of when I talked about it, heart, 353 00:20:42,960 --> 00:20:46,400 my heart for the experience. It was the sense of, you know, 354 00:20:46,400 --> 00:20:51,400 being at home and and as I say and and and that that further 355 00:20:51,400 --> 00:20:56,200 reinforced an idea that's fundamental to me, that the love 356 00:20:56,200 --> 00:21:00,160 and and caring that a person gets as much more influential. 357 00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:03,360 And whether they become religious, then the formal 358 00:21:03,360 --> 00:21:07,160 philosophical arguments for the existence of God or the proof of 359 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:11,360 Torah Minashamaya, it is the warmth that brings people to 360 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:13,880 Akhileshbar. And the Basni Rebbe was 361 00:21:13,880 --> 00:21:16,720 exceptional in that way in terms of his care, in terms of his 362 00:21:16,720 --> 00:21:21,800 compassion. He organized the international 363 00:21:21,800 --> 00:21:25,920 project of Rofe for medical care for people who came all over the 364 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:27,680 world for medical care in Boston. 365 00:21:28,000 --> 00:21:30,760 And the Rebbe not only gave them accommodations and lodging and 366 00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:33,440 food, but he also arranged their medical care. 367 00:21:33,440 --> 00:21:36,600 He arranged appointments with the most eminent physicians. 368 00:21:37,000 --> 00:21:41,960 I remember one time I was diving next to a person in the the 369 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:46,520 rebbe's base Madras, and somebody told me later that 370 00:21:46,520 --> 00:21:48,080 person who was of Schmuler Rozovsky. 371 00:21:48,080 --> 00:21:50,640 I had never even heard of REF Schmuler Rozovsky. 372 00:21:50,960 --> 00:21:53,560 He was the Rashiva Potovich. He was Mama Shegodel. 373 00:21:53,720 --> 00:21:58,160 I I use his Swarim today with tremendous tremendous enthusiasm 374 00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,840 and he was just stopping next to me like a ball of bus. 375 00:22:00,840 --> 00:22:04,040 He's unfortunately was going to Boston for cancer treat but the 376 00:22:04,040 --> 00:22:07,240 busty rebbe like treated them dealt with everybody from the 377 00:22:07,240 --> 00:22:11,000 God Olshibige dolum to really the people who were you know not 378 00:22:11,000 --> 00:22:14,960 necessarily famous not necessarily well known and his 379 00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:20,800 house was open 24/7, 24/7 mamish for any type of Cyrus. 380 00:22:20,800 --> 00:22:25,920 So from him I saw kindness and warmth and compassion. 381 00:22:26,880 --> 00:22:29,840 And I'm digressing a little bit here, but how did the Boston 382 00:22:29,840 --> 00:22:32,240 Irby end up with all these college kids at his campus? 383 00:22:32,240 --> 00:22:34,080 Did he go out to the campus and recruit? 384 00:22:34,240 --> 00:22:35,520 How did they find out about this? 385 00:22:36,040 --> 00:22:39,600 As far as I know, and I I I can't say I know this for sure. 386 00:22:39,880 --> 00:22:41,760 I don't think he did any recruiting at all. 387 00:22:41,760 --> 00:22:46,320 It was all word of mouth. The concept was that people were 388 00:22:46,320 --> 00:22:51,000 starving for connection. They were starving for some type 389 00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,920 of Yiddish guide. They wanted to get out of the 390 00:22:53,920 --> 00:22:56,520 sterile, you know, intellectualism of the 391 00:22:56,520 --> 00:23:01,520 university campus. And you know, one guy went and 392 00:23:01,520 --> 00:23:03,800 eventually it spreads that this is the place to go. 393 00:23:03,800 --> 00:23:06,320 I I don't think it it wasn't like combat or anything. 394 00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:10,080 He wasn't doing recruiting. People just gravitate. 395 00:23:10,160 --> 00:23:15,080 And typically there were more than 100 people at his Shabbos 396 00:23:15,080 --> 00:23:18,480 table, I think. And one thing I remember that's 397 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,920 so interesting, they started Hasidis and Kabbalah. 398 00:23:22,480 --> 00:23:25,240 He would never make kiddish between 6:00 and 7:00 because 399 00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:29,680 that's the time that the Mazel of Mars Madam is so late. 400 00:23:29,920 --> 00:23:31,840 And it's a bad, it's not auspicious. 401 00:23:32,360 --> 00:23:37,720 So I remember that if we finished my rymph 5:45, there 402 00:23:37,720 --> 00:23:42,640 was a mad, insane rush to get up there and do kiddish, because if 403 00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:46,840 it was 70, I'm sorry, If it was 601, we wouldn't have to wait a 404 00:23:46,840 --> 00:23:50,000 whole hour. So I remember, I remember that 405 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:55,680 rush to kind of get kiddush in before Mazal Madhim Madhim came. 406 00:23:56,320 --> 00:23:58,640 And did you get a chance to meet Rossolovicic? 407 00:23:59,160 --> 00:24:02,760 Brookline, of course, had another phenomenal, phenomenally 408 00:24:02,760 --> 00:24:06,880 great man That was Raviosevo Solovicic, known as the Rav. 409 00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:12,080 And of course the Rav was the the head Rosheshiva and Magid 410 00:24:12,080 --> 00:24:14,240 Shirovaiyu and the one who gave Samira. 411 00:24:14,640 --> 00:24:19,680 So his working week was in New York, but he came to Boston. 412 00:24:20,120 --> 00:24:22,840 He lived in Boston actually, and he came back to Boston every 413 00:24:22,840 --> 00:24:24,520 Shabbos or to Brooklyn every Shabbos. 414 00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,520 And you know, he was the founder of the Maimonides School and 415 00:24:28,520 --> 00:24:32,200 that's where he Dobbins. It was not my neighborhood, but 416 00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:35,720 I would go there occasionally and I would sometimes go to the 417 00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:38,800 Moss a Shabbos. He gave a Mos a Shabbos home 418 00:24:38,800 --> 00:24:41,120 share. Then he gave me a Sunday morning 419 00:24:41,120 --> 00:24:44,160 Gomorrah share as well as, you know, kino's, you know, special 420 00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:46,120 events. I did not go to the Sunday 421 00:24:46,120 --> 00:24:49,600 morning Gomorrah share, but I did go occasionally to the 422 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:54,120 Mosaic Shabbos Commishir. And what can I say about the 423 00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:58,960 Ralph, the Ralph's brilliance? Everybody knows his clarity, his 424 00:24:58,960 --> 00:25:01,080 beautiful way of explaining things. 425 00:25:01,360 --> 00:25:05,080 But I do want to point out that although I I can't say I knew 426 00:25:05,080 --> 00:25:07,000 him well, I'm not going to make that claim at all. 427 00:25:07,440 --> 00:25:10,520 But he too, People look at him as a cult of Litvak, a cold 428 00:25:10,520 --> 00:25:13,200 Lithuanian who was only, you know, a thinker. 429 00:25:13,880 --> 00:25:16,680 He was. He had his remittance, were very 430 00:25:16,680 --> 00:25:22,320 very warm and kind and friendly people and they too had guests 431 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:24,320 on shoppers. Now now he they didn't have like 432 00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:26,000 the bus to ready. They didn't have 100 people. 433 00:25:26,480 --> 00:25:30,080 But you know college students found their way to the RAVS 434 00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:34,640 table and they too benefited from from not only his 435 00:25:34,640 --> 00:25:38,360 brilliance but also his warmth. So it's important for people to 436 00:25:38,360 --> 00:25:41,040 know that there is another side to RAVS. 437 00:25:41,040 --> 00:25:44,480 Olivetic decides being the brilliant, the obviously 438 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,600 brilliant, brilliant thinker, an enormous Talmud Khachem that he 439 00:25:48,600 --> 00:25:51,080 was. He was a person who genuinely, 440 00:25:51,080 --> 00:25:57,680 genuinely cared for people and his share was phenomenal. 441 00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:02,680 His share was brilliant and you know they say there are people 442 00:26:02,680 --> 00:26:04,560 who are much, much. I mean, I can't, can't really 443 00:26:04,560 --> 00:26:08,200 say I was close to him and all I I may have spoken 4 words to him 444 00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,320 and may have met him, but I did hear him a number of times and 445 00:26:11,360 --> 00:26:14,040 again it blew me. It certainly blew me away. 446 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,920 Returning back to your story, we talked about how you were able 447 00:26:17,920 --> 00:26:21,320 to go to law school in Harvard, also find opportunities to teach 448 00:26:21,320 --> 00:26:23,280 Torah on the side. So when you finished and 449 00:26:23,280 --> 00:26:24,920 graduated, what was the next step for you? 450 00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:30,080 So the next stage was I moved to Chicago, and that made no sense 451 00:26:30,080 --> 00:26:32,240 at all because I'm not from Chicago. 452 00:26:32,560 --> 00:26:36,000 But I had a very good friend from there, Israel, who lived in 453 00:26:36,000 --> 00:26:38,080 Chicago, and he wanted me to visit him. 454 00:26:38,760 --> 00:26:41,800 So I told him I can't afford the the airfare. 455 00:26:42,240 --> 00:26:46,280 So he said why don't you sign up for an interview with a law firm 456 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:48,520 cause in in Harvard. I I went to Harvard to law 457 00:26:48,520 --> 00:26:52,160 school and there you had law firms who came to the law school 458 00:26:52,160 --> 00:26:55,280 to interview you and if they liked you after an initial 459 00:26:55,280 --> 00:26:58,640 interview they would pay for a trip so they could check you out 460 00:26:58,640 --> 00:27:00,000 in the firm you could check them out. 461 00:27:00,320 --> 00:27:03,480 So he said why don't you just sign up for a interview Chicago 462 00:27:03,480 --> 00:27:06,000 law firm interview and then they'll pay for your trip. 463 00:27:06,600 --> 00:27:09,080 So I said hey that's dishonest. What are you talking about? 464 00:27:09,400 --> 00:27:12,240 I'm going to get a free trip to Chicago, and I have no intention 465 00:27:12,240 --> 00:27:16,440 whatsoever to work in Chicago. So he said, you know, you never 466 00:27:16,440 --> 00:27:18,120 know, you may like it in Chicago. 467 00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:23,280 So I signed up for some Chicago Law School law firm interviews 468 00:27:23,720 --> 00:27:27,880 and I got my trip to Chicago. I visited my friends and lo and 469 00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:30,480 behold, that Kurdish Farka didn't want me to be dishonest. 470 00:27:30,800 --> 00:27:34,200 So I actually took a job with a law firm in Chicago. 471 00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:38,720 I lived in West Rogers Park. I lived in Chicago for four 472 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:41,840 years. I was OK to meet my wife in 473 00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:44,560 Chicago. So now I understand why I went 474 00:27:44,720 --> 00:27:50,400 to to Chicago and Chicago too, was, was, and it still is a 475 00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:53,000 lovely, lovely, lovely Jewish community. 476 00:27:53,000 --> 00:27:55,440 You know, the Midwest is different than the Northeast. 477 00:27:56,080 --> 00:28:00,760 The Midwest is very, very warm. When people are in shopping, in 478 00:28:00,760 --> 00:28:03,840 store lines, food store lines, they talk to each other. 479 00:28:04,400 --> 00:28:10,000 But you don't see that much on the east, on the East Coast and 480 00:28:10,080 --> 00:28:12,920 birth Hashem. Today, many years later, Chicago 481 00:28:12,920 --> 00:28:15,960 has much more to ridiculous a different color limit the like 482 00:28:16,200 --> 00:28:19,720 that weren't there when I was there, but even then there was a 483 00:28:19,720 --> 00:28:23,080 solid frim community, a facidish community, a Shiva Shiva 484 00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:28,280 community that was tells Yeshiva of Chicago that that is still 485 00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:30,760 there. And that's where, although I was 486 00:28:30,760 --> 00:28:34,160 working as a lawyer in a big law firm, I was working as a lawyer 487 00:28:34,720 --> 00:28:37,840 full time. But that's really where I began 488 00:28:38,120 --> 00:28:40,960 to do more and more teaching. I did teaching. 489 00:28:40,960 --> 00:28:45,700 There was a balchuva yeshiva in Chicago, only more of a part 490 00:28:45,700 --> 00:28:47,200 time yeshiva. There weren't any full time 491 00:28:47,200 --> 00:28:50,880 students. It was called Mick Del Tora Rab 492 00:28:50,920 --> 00:28:55,480 of Ram Alter Rabbi Aaron Levitansky, Ravi Isaf Heisler. 493 00:28:56,160 --> 00:29:01,240 They established this, this Mysat, and I don't know exactly 494 00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,720 how they knew about me. See, I I don't, I really don't 495 00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:06,560 know like why was I approached? That's kind of a little bit of a 496 00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:10,160 mystery because I was just a guy who moved to Chicago and doing a 497 00:29:10,160 --> 00:29:13,240 lesson. But somehow I I got involved and 498 00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:17,960 that's where my teaching began in a stronger way. 499 00:29:18,200 --> 00:29:20,680 In law school, I was teaching isolated individuals. 500 00:29:20,680 --> 00:29:24,480 I was not giving any classes. In Chicago is where I began to 501 00:29:24,480 --> 00:29:28,200 teach classes. I remember now teaching halakha, 502 00:29:28,200 --> 00:29:32,280 teaching Tanakh, the safer shmuelo, for example, Jhome 503 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,440 shyorim. So you could say that I got my 504 00:29:35,440 --> 00:29:40,120 feet wet in the four years than I spent in in Chicago. 505 00:29:41,120 --> 00:29:43,840 And then what caused you to leave Chicago and what was the 506 00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:46,520 next step? So what caused me to leave 507 00:29:46,520 --> 00:29:50,640 Chicago was this. Even though I was working as a 508 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:54,760 as a law firm, I really wanted to be a law professor. 509 00:29:54,760 --> 00:29:58,840 Number one, I like teaching even law #2. 510 00:29:58,840 --> 00:30:02,800 The hours would be much easier as a law professor, which would 511 00:30:02,800 --> 00:30:06,440 give me more time for learning and for teaching teaching Torah. 512 00:30:07,000 --> 00:30:11,200 So I applied. There's a nationwide registry 513 00:30:11,200 --> 00:30:14,040 where if you're interested in law teaching, you submit a 514 00:30:14,040 --> 00:30:16,360 resume, and then different law schools invite you. 515 00:30:16,920 --> 00:30:20,800 So for a while, I actually taught at the University of 516 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:25,360 Illinois in Champaign, Urbana. I was commuting, it was a two 517 00:30:25,400 --> 00:30:27,200 200 miles. So I would take this little 518 00:30:27,200 --> 00:30:31,640 commuter airline Brit Airways and I was gone for three days a 519 00:30:31,640 --> 00:30:33,480 week and then home for the rest of the week. 520 00:30:34,120 --> 00:30:37,480 And I remember the commuter airway in Chicago winters, you 521 00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,520 know, you feel like the plane is going to be blown out of the 522 00:30:40,520 --> 00:30:44,600 sky, etcetera, kind of scary. And I taught in Champaign, 523 00:30:44,600 --> 00:30:49,280 Urbana for a year and a half, and I liked it a lot. 524 00:30:49,640 --> 00:30:51,760 But they gave me an ultimatum at some point. 525 00:30:51,760 --> 00:30:55,240 They basically said you need to be here more more often than you 526 00:30:55,280 --> 00:30:58,000 are. So you have to move down here. 527 00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,560 Either you move down here or, you know, you got to find 528 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,720 another job. So my wife and I, I had just 529 00:31:03,720 --> 00:31:05,840 gotten married. I had taken the Champagne Urbana 530 00:31:05,840 --> 00:31:07,640 job before I was married. I was engaged. 531 00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,400 We got married. So number one, to be there for 532 00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,080 part of the week is very difficult for Shana Rishona. 533 00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:17,800 But to move to champagne in those days, there was no mikvah. 534 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,360 There was no very, very tiny Orthodox presence. 535 00:31:21,360 --> 00:31:26,000 There were only two professors who were Shoba Shabbos, so we 536 00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:27,960 were agonizing over this decision. 537 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,160 Should we move to Champaign, Urbana. 538 00:31:30,160 --> 00:31:34,040 We were actually on the verge of doing it, but at the last minute 539 00:31:34,040 --> 00:31:37,360 we thought it wouldn't be good for our Jewish life, for our 540 00:31:37,360 --> 00:31:40,040 firm type. So as a result, I had to leave 541 00:31:40,040 --> 00:31:42,760 the University of Illinois, even though I was very happy there. 542 00:31:43,440 --> 00:31:48,360 So when I applied for other schools, the one school, there 543 00:31:48,360 --> 00:31:50,480 were only maybe two or three schools that may be an offer, 544 00:31:50,480 --> 00:31:54,440 but the one school that sounded the best was the University of 545 00:31:54,440 --> 00:31:57,600 Maryland that was located in Baltimore. 546 00:31:58,240 --> 00:32:00,760 And I thought that was providential in some ways 547 00:32:00,760 --> 00:32:04,560 because I learned to know Israel and to be able to go back to 548 00:32:04,560 --> 00:32:08,440 Baltimore would be kind of a return to my yeshiva roots. 549 00:32:08,960 --> 00:32:14,200 So because of that, after four years in Chicago, my wife and I, 550 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:15,880 we didn't have children at the time. 551 00:32:16,400 --> 00:32:21,640 We relocated to Baltimore, MD. I was not around in Baltimore. 552 00:32:21,640 --> 00:32:25,840 I again, I was a law professor at the University of Maryland, 553 00:32:26,720 --> 00:32:31,120 but in Baltimore too, I gave El Shiora, and here the teaching 554 00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:36,120 got a little more heavy. I gave a Dafyomi share for four 555 00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,800 years. And Brofishan Brofishan. 556 00:32:41,360 --> 00:32:45,200 It enabled me at that time to teach a large part of shots, 557 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:49,400 including receptus of cod ship, very difficult receptus and the 558 00:32:49,400 --> 00:32:53,480 like. So my teaching expanded in 559 00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,080 Baltimore. I was told, you know, I was 560 00:32:57,080 --> 00:33:00,320 working with another bolt shuva organization, Ace Higham, which 561 00:33:00,320 --> 00:33:03,880 is still there, established by a hover of my reporter. 562 00:33:03,880 --> 00:33:06,720 He should be well and still running it in Baltimore. 563 00:33:07,560 --> 00:33:13,040 And I was there for four years and I was not yet a rough. 564 00:33:13,040 --> 00:33:15,560 And then we have the next stage of moving to Silver Spring. 565 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,720 Before we move on to the Silver Spring years, I want to follow 566 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:20,720 up with a question about your time in Baltimore. 567 00:33:21,040 --> 00:33:23,640 So you mentioned that you were working as a law professor and 568 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,040 you were ramping up your Torah teaching on the side. 569 00:33:26,280 --> 00:33:28,720 Tell us a little bit practically how that worked, how you made 570 00:33:28,720 --> 00:33:31,760 time for everything. Well, I I was a full time law 571 00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:35,000 professor and of course that included writing articles. 572 00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:40,160 But a law professor's teaching load, Maybe I shouldn't say this 573 00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:46,040 is relatively light. It's between 4 to 8 hours a 574 00:33:46,040 --> 00:33:48,280 week. 8 hours would be an absolute maximum. 575 00:33:48,280 --> 00:33:53,160 Now obviously, you know, 8 hours of classroom time requires 576 00:33:53,160 --> 00:33:58,480 preparation as well. Some people say, oh, I think 577 00:33:58,480 --> 00:34:01,760 that's obsessive, that you need 10 hours of preparation for 578 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:04,440 every hour of classroom time. That's that ain't not the case. 579 00:34:04,680 --> 00:34:07,560 But you need preparation, particularly when you're a 580 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:09,280 beginning teacher. You know, once you've taught a 581 00:34:09,280 --> 00:34:12,360 course, for a lot of times the preparation time goes down 582 00:34:12,520 --> 00:34:16,639 dramatically, as it did indeed, but initially it took a lot of 583 00:34:16,639 --> 00:34:19,080 effort. But basically the classroom 584 00:34:19,080 --> 00:34:22,920 hours were relatively light. The preparation I could handle 585 00:34:22,920 --> 00:34:26,440 during the day, but even during the day I had time in my office 586 00:34:26,880 --> 00:34:30,239 to sit and learn and and the like. 587 00:34:30,239 --> 00:34:32,159 And then in the evenings I I taught. 588 00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,360 So as I thought, as I said, one of the reasons I went into 589 00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,520 teaching was because it gave me a more flexible schedule. 590 00:34:39,639 --> 00:34:42,120 Oh, as well as summer's off. Let me point that out as well, 591 00:34:42,400 --> 00:34:46,960 that unless you're teaching in the summer school, you know, in 592 00:34:46,960 --> 00:34:50,560 law school, spring semester is over in May and it doesn't start 593 00:34:50,560 --> 00:34:54,639 again till the end of August. So you have a big, big chunk of 594 00:34:54,639 --> 00:34:57,280 time where you don't have a commitment. 595 00:34:57,280 --> 00:34:59,560 Now, obviously if you're doing scholarship, you know you have 596 00:34:59,560 --> 00:35:02,880 to write as well. But one interesting thing about 597 00:35:02,880 --> 00:35:07,320 law school is that they consider Jewish law as an academic 598 00:35:07,320 --> 00:35:10,280 subject. So for example, if I would write 599 00:35:10,280 --> 00:35:15,200 an article which thinks I did on, you know, the Jewish law's 600 00:35:15,200 --> 00:35:19,440 perspective on abortion or Jewish law's perspective on the 601 00:35:19,440 --> 00:35:24,440 law of war, that would be acceptable scholarship for law 602 00:35:24,440 --> 00:35:28,600 school, even though it involves learning total. 603 00:35:28,600 --> 00:35:33,680 In fact, I got tenure based on a book I wrote about Aguna right, 604 00:35:33,680 --> 00:35:37,840 about the halautic and legal issues of protecting agunauts 605 00:35:38,200 --> 00:35:40,960 who are women who do not get, who cannot get a get from their 606 00:35:40,960 --> 00:35:44,600 husband. So in a sense, the academic part 607 00:35:44,600 --> 00:35:48,880 of it allowed me dovetail with a lot of Torah learning, although 608 00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:51,080 not necessarily the Torah I was teaching. 609 00:35:51,680 --> 00:35:54,080 So I was able to do a lot of learning as a law professor. 610 00:35:54,080 --> 00:35:57,720 And at night I I did teaching, I did Dafyomi, I did other she or 611 00:35:57,720 --> 00:36:01,600 other she or as as well. I want to say one thing I don't 612 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:02,920 I don't want to say that I was unique. 613 00:36:03,480 --> 00:36:08,600 Many, many have followed a similar path in which they're 614 00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:13,120 they're professional, very well regarded professionals who still 615 00:36:13,360 --> 00:36:17,040 teach Torah and learn Torah A tremendous amount of the day. 616 00:36:17,680 --> 00:36:20,360 I have one more question about your time in Chicago and 617 00:36:20,360 --> 00:36:22,880 Baltimore, and that is the question of identity. 618 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:26,360 At this point you didn't have any formal rabbinic position, so 619 00:36:26,360 --> 00:36:29,400 how do you think about yourself? What was your self conception at 620 00:36:29,400 --> 00:36:32,280 that point? Well, I I certainly did not 621 00:36:32,280 --> 00:36:34,480 consider myself a rug because I was not a rug. 622 00:36:34,480 --> 00:36:37,120 I had Smeagol, but I was not a rug with a shill or anything 623 00:36:37,120 --> 00:36:40,240 like that. But I considered myself, you 624 00:36:40,240 --> 00:36:44,040 know, hopefully you know, a a Ben Tora who regarded his 625 00:36:44,040 --> 00:36:47,680 learning and teaching of Torah as the icker activity of his 626 00:36:47,680 --> 00:36:52,560 life and the law teaching was was a parnosa was a parnosa that 627 00:36:52,560 --> 00:36:56,320 I I found interesting and I found it enabled me to learn and 628 00:36:56,320 --> 00:36:58,320 it allowed me to support my family. 629 00:36:59,200 --> 00:37:02,080 And it also was a little bit of a tool of outreach. 630 00:37:02,080 --> 00:37:05,240 I mean there are a few people who became from because 631 00:37:05,240 --> 00:37:08,840 initially initially, you know, they were law students of mine 632 00:37:08,840 --> 00:37:11,880 and they saw the Yamilka and the citizens and you know that 633 00:37:11,880 --> 00:37:14,760 attracted him. So at least indirectly I there 634 00:37:14,760 --> 00:37:17,800 was a little bit of a key roof component as well. 635 00:37:18,280 --> 00:37:22,800 But I think I regarded myself as as a Bala bus who considered the 636 00:37:22,800 --> 00:37:27,360 Tyra to be the icker, the icker thing in his life which isn't a 637 00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,120 perfectly good because in Baltimore that was a model. 638 00:37:31,120 --> 00:37:33,000 You know there are certain communities where sometimes 639 00:37:33,000 --> 00:37:36,600 that's a little difficult era. Just for example sometimes in 640 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,320 Yerushalayim it's difficult for a ballabass to have a a 641 00:37:40,360 --> 00:37:44,480 definition does basically he's not in Kohel. 642 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,160 In other words, he's defined by a negative, I think in a place 643 00:37:48,160 --> 00:37:52,240 like Baltimore because of the hush guff of their Israel, the 644 00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:55,600 the Balabas that was Kabaya, itam Letaira, you know, had a 645 00:37:55,600 --> 00:38:00,320 very esteemed and respected role in the community, and I think 646 00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:03,320 that's a good thing. Can you unpack that a little 647 00:38:03,320 --> 00:38:05,520 more? What was it about Naisirah that 648 00:38:05,520 --> 00:38:08,480 was so conducive to becoming a professional who was also a 649 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:13,400 Ventura? O Moreno Herrera Shiva Sequena 650 00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:21,240 Labrafa Rivisa Yakovitsa Grou was rooted in the idea of Tyra 651 00:38:21,240 --> 00:38:23,640 his everything. Tyra's the most important for 652 00:38:24,600 --> 00:38:28,120 and ideally a person should make himself in the I love little 653 00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:32,680 Tyra as a Rebbe, as a Margaret Sheer, as a Marvitz, Tyra as a 654 00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:36,440 Roshi Shiva. And yet what's so interesting is 655 00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,080 that even the many, many tomidim of Neri Israel who did not go 656 00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:46,480 into the full time Kinnock world, did not remain in the 657 00:38:46,480 --> 00:38:50,040 Yeshiva world, became doctors, lawyers, accountants, 658 00:38:50,480 --> 00:38:53,880 businessmen. One of the most common things 659 00:38:53,880 --> 00:38:58,920 that the Rutshiva was Mushrish in all of his Talmudin was that 660 00:38:58,920 --> 00:39:04,760 whatever you do, your Taiya and your Akhrayas to Claulius well 661 00:39:05,720 --> 00:39:09,360 has to be the fundamental central point of your life. 662 00:39:10,440 --> 00:39:16,160 So in a sense what the Rutshiva took from Slobodkin that Taira 663 00:39:16,160 --> 00:39:21,040 is the Igoritheus was received by the tamidum whether they 664 00:39:21,040 --> 00:39:25,280 stayed in the yeshiva world or whether they did it Boruchachen. 665 00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:30,440 Many, many, many tamidum of Neri Israel are in the yeshiva world 666 00:39:30,560 --> 00:39:34,680 with Abras Floren but either a bonus or whatever it would be 667 00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:39,600 Clay Kaidek. But even those who are not, you 668 00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:43,480 find that they are the muggi de Shir of Dafyomi, that they are 669 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:46,680 giving shiur and that they have carusas that they learn hours 670 00:39:46,680 --> 00:39:49,240 before they go to work and hours after they come back. 671 00:39:50,600 --> 00:39:53,840 And not only in their learning, but they're also people who tea. 672 00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:58,520 There are people who take Akrayas for the day, skulls for 673 00:39:58,520 --> 00:40:02,120 the Mikvahs for the Scholes, for the community, Kayla. 674 00:40:03,520 --> 00:40:08,120 So in a sense one of the peduchen, I think. 675 00:40:09,000 --> 00:40:11,840 That Dravidiman pioneered in there Israel, he was not the 676 00:40:11,840 --> 00:40:16,080 only one, but certainly was one of the major major forces, is 677 00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:21,920 the idea, as Shlomo Hamelov says in Michelay, but called you up 678 00:40:23,520 --> 00:40:28,040 in all of your pathways. You come to know God. 679 00:40:28,760 --> 00:40:33,440 You know Hashem not only if your vocation happens to be in Aveda 680 00:40:33,440 --> 00:40:38,320 Sakaedesh, but even if your vocation happens to be in a 681 00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:41,920 secular field. It's Moloktatha Rai. 682 00:40:42,520 --> 00:40:46,640 Your moloka is an important part of your life, but it's not the 683 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:50,440 acre. The acre is your Torah, your 684 00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:55,120 mitzvahs, your heseds, your involvement in the needs of 685 00:40:55,120 --> 00:40:58,160 Claudius Rail. And that would also add, as 686 00:40:58,160 --> 00:41:01,520 least as an aside, that there was she would put in extreme 687 00:41:01,520 --> 00:41:06,080 importance on Shalom bias on the relationship of a husband and a 688 00:41:06,080 --> 00:41:09,440 wife, and the need for a husband to care for his wife and show 689 00:41:09,440 --> 00:41:12,120 her that he cared. That too was one of the great, 690 00:41:12,120 --> 00:41:17,200 great lessons that he inspired. So as a result, I think that 691 00:41:17,200 --> 00:41:22,680 every Talmud of Neri Israel absorbed in their lifebloods the 692 00:41:22,680 --> 00:41:27,920 Kashivas of Tyra, and it becomes manifest in many, many different 693 00:41:27,920 --> 00:41:31,640 ways. But once again, there was no 694 00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:35,680 sense that that you're either in full time learning or forget 695 00:41:35,680 --> 00:41:38,640 about it. Rather everybody Kufinkeihei 696 00:41:39,640 --> 00:41:43,600 considers the Lima Datera to be the essential aspect of it. 697 00:41:45,120 --> 00:41:47,400 And when did you actually join the Rabbinate? 698 00:41:48,000 --> 00:41:52,280 So what happened was I I was in Baltimore just as a law 699 00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:59,360 professor from 1983 to 1988. In 1988 I was approached by a 700 00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:05,000 Shoal in Silver Spring that had been around for many many years 701 00:42:05,000 --> 00:42:09,000 but without a Rav because some of the founding Balabatim, some 702 00:42:09,000 --> 00:42:11,000 of them are still there in the shelf to this day. 703 00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,880 You know were had Smeekhra, they were Yodea Seifer, they were 704 00:42:14,880 --> 00:42:18,240 Lambdonum and they kind of ran things but at some point they 705 00:42:18,240 --> 00:42:22,480 decided they needed a Rav and they always said it was very 706 00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:24,840 accurate to get a Rav because they wanted a Rav. 707 00:42:24,840 --> 00:42:29,520 It was both knowledgeable in toe wrap and had a good secular 708 00:42:29,520 --> 00:42:32,880 background because so many of the the membership in the 709 00:42:32,880 --> 00:42:36,360 Woodside Synagogue of Silver Spring themselves were graduates 710 00:42:36,360 --> 00:42:39,160 of Harvard Law School or very, you know, very prominent 711 00:42:39,720 --> 00:42:42,400 lawyers. Washington is a very big lawyer 712 00:42:42,400 --> 00:42:45,760 town. And a lot of the from people of 713 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:49,760 my show who live in Silver Spring, a suburb of Washington, 714 00:42:50,040 --> 00:42:52,720 came there to be government lawyers, government service 715 00:42:52,720 --> 00:42:54,280 lawyers. So they weren't rich because 716 00:42:54,280 --> 00:42:56,920 they were government lawyers, but they were bright, They were 717 00:42:56,920 --> 00:43:00,080 smart. And as a result, they they had 718 00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:03,560 difficulty finding a Ralph and they asked me to try out. 719 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:05,400 How did they find me? Once again, it's a bit of a 720 00:43:05,400 --> 00:43:08,640 mystery, but I think somebody in the show knew me from their E 721 00:43:08,640 --> 00:43:12,080 Rail like a younger one of the younger people was in their E 722 00:43:12,080 --> 00:43:15,240 Rail alumnus. So they had me come for a 723 00:43:15,240 --> 00:43:16,760 prepper. They had become for Shabba 724 00:43:16,760 --> 00:43:20,720 Saglar doll to speak like four or five times. 725 00:43:20,720 --> 00:43:24,680 I remember there was a long, grueling interview about what do 726 00:43:24,680 --> 00:43:28,760 I think about your mod Smollett? You know, it's a show that has 727 00:43:29,320 --> 00:43:32,840 diverse points of the spectrum, but they did. 728 00:43:32,840 --> 00:43:35,360 They did to hire me. They did hire me. 729 00:43:36,160 --> 00:43:39,480 They could only offer me a part time salary, so they actually 730 00:43:39,480 --> 00:43:41,880 required that. I maintain my law school 731 00:43:41,880 --> 00:43:44,720 affiliation with the University of Maryland. 732 00:43:45,200 --> 00:43:48,760 But as I say, once I became a route #1, I had to relocate from 733 00:43:48,760 --> 00:43:51,800 Baltimore to Silver Spring, even though the University of 734 00:43:51,800 --> 00:43:53,520 Maryland law school was still in Baltimore. 735 00:43:53,520 --> 00:43:55,640 So I had to do that commute every day, which, you know, 736 00:43:55,800 --> 00:43:58,680 wasn't so bad, but it was a a commute. 737 00:43:59,320 --> 00:44:02,840 But as I tell people, the way I describe it at that point is 738 00:44:03,320 --> 00:44:06,560 that most of my salary comes from law school teaching. 739 00:44:06,560 --> 00:44:09,080 Most of my time was devoted to abundance. 740 00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,320 There's no such thing as a part time Robinus. 741 00:44:12,600 --> 00:44:16,080 There was only a part time salary for a full time Robinus. 742 00:44:16,600 --> 00:44:21,200 And that became, you know, my primary vocation for more than 743 00:44:21,200 --> 00:44:25,680 22 years, 23 years, although one year was a sabbatical. 744 00:44:25,760 --> 00:44:29,840 Richest rail actually 1999 and Bertha Sham. 745 00:44:29,840 --> 00:44:33,400 It's a lovely community you know Obviously we have we have every 746 00:44:33,400 --> 00:44:35,400 community has its problems and its tensions. 747 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:38,320 But I'm I'm still in very close contact. 748 00:44:38,320 --> 00:44:43,600 Even though it's been 13 years, 14 years, Paul, since I left. 749 00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,240 I'm still in contact with many, many members of the of the 750 00:44:47,240 --> 00:44:50,080 community. So it's a very, very important 751 00:44:50,080 --> 00:44:53,000 part of our lives. This is where we raid. 752 00:44:53,000 --> 00:44:55,560 We have only one one son who lives in Baltimore. 753 00:44:56,320 --> 00:45:00,200 This is where we raised our son and it was a lovely community to 754 00:45:00,200 --> 00:45:04,920 raise children in. It's really special to hear 755 00:45:04,920 --> 00:45:07,760 about all the tremendous Seattle Deshmaya that you experienced 756 00:45:07,760 --> 00:45:10,280 from Boston to Chicago and Baltimore, and then with the 757 00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:11,680 keel and Silver Spring finding you. 758 00:45:11,920 --> 00:45:14,160 And that makes this next question a little bit of a funny 759 00:45:14,160 --> 00:45:15,240 one. But I think it's interesting to 760 00:45:15,240 --> 00:45:17,440 think about. Do you ever think about what 761 00:45:17,440 --> 00:45:20,040 might be different if you were a young man growing up today, how 762 00:45:20,040 --> 00:45:25,760 that might look? Well, you know, it's it's a it's 763 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,040 a little hard it's a little hard to say I I I I think in some 764 00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:32,000 ways and and it's hard to me because my my experience is 765 00:45:32,000 --> 00:45:35,160 colored by living in Erich, Israel for a lot of years. 766 00:45:35,720 --> 00:45:40,120 But I see in in the yeshiva world today a certain 767 00:45:40,160 --> 00:45:45,400 narrowness, a certain exclusion, a certain inability to 768 00:45:45,400 --> 00:45:50,160 appreciate the diversity and differences that exist within 769 00:45:50,160 --> 00:45:52,640 people. There's more of a push towards 770 00:45:52,640 --> 00:45:57,560 conformity towards A1 size fit all in which you either go with 771 00:45:57,560 --> 00:46:01,040 the system or you know, or we simply have no use for you. 772 00:46:01,840 --> 00:46:04,840 Maybe I'm exaggerating and maybe I'm being overly negative and I 773 00:46:04,840 --> 00:46:07,400 and I apologize if that's the case. 774 00:46:08,640 --> 00:46:13,800 But I think when I look at the great Brachon that Hashem gave 775 00:46:13,800 --> 00:46:18,400 me was kind of being in environments that that were 776 00:46:18,400 --> 00:46:23,520 responsive to individuality. It understood that people have 777 00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:26,600 different drafted, people have different talents and that 778 00:46:26,600 --> 00:46:29,080 Shlomo Melov says Hannokal and I will P Darka. 779 00:46:29,080 --> 00:46:32,240 You have to educate a person according to their their deareth 780 00:46:33,040 --> 00:46:37,480 and not try to remake them. And as a result, I think that 781 00:46:37,480 --> 00:46:40,960 helped me personally a lot. To whatever degree I'm able to 782 00:46:40,960 --> 00:46:45,920 help others, I try to pass that lesson, lesson on or pass that 783 00:46:45,920 --> 00:46:48,800 approach on. Today, I think it's a little 784 00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:50,760 harder. I'm not, I'm not sure exactly 785 00:46:50,760 --> 00:46:53,160 why. Maybe it's as the world gets 786 00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:57,040 more decadent, so we got to go to the other extreme of, you 787 00:46:57,040 --> 00:47:01,040 know, circling the wagons. That sometimes happens, but I 788 00:47:01,040 --> 00:47:04,680 think there's there's less tolerance, less openness, less 789 00:47:04,680 --> 00:47:08,760 understanding of individual dynamics. 790 00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:12,160 I'll use diversity, although diversity is kind of a TRAF word 791 00:47:12,160 --> 00:47:15,160 with the average stuff and everything else, but I think 792 00:47:15,160 --> 00:47:17,520 there's less appreciation for diversity and and one of the 793 00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,200 great things of Neri Israel as the yeshiva historically, and 794 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:24,600 this goes back to Rev Ruderman being a Talmud of the altar of 795 00:47:24,600 --> 00:47:29,600 Slobatka, was that it emphasized godless Sodom and it emphasized 796 00:47:29,600 --> 00:47:32,040 the individuality of each person. 797 00:47:32,280 --> 00:47:35,400 It was not a cookie cutter, one-size-fits-all. 798 00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,640 And I think unfortunately we're seeing less and less of that in 799 00:47:39,640 --> 00:47:42,280 the modern world. So it's hard to know how things 800 00:47:42,280 --> 00:47:44,640 would have come out. They may not have come out the 801 00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:46,080 same way. So it's a breath. 802 00:47:46,080 --> 00:47:49,440 When a person is put into a certain timeframe, that's also a 803 00:47:49,440 --> 00:47:51,440 breath. There's a reason why the Amber 804 00:47:51,440 --> 00:47:53,560 strip put him in that particular time. 805 00:47:54,840 --> 00:47:57,840 As I'm listening to you tell your story, I noticed how at 806 00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:03,040 almost all of the stops, you recall and remember the warmth 807 00:48:03,200 --> 00:48:06,720 that you felt, whether it's Hartford and in Baltimore and 808 00:48:06,720 --> 00:48:11,120 Chicago and Silver Spring. And I now understand and 809 00:48:11,120 --> 00:48:14,240 appreciate better the warmth that I feel as a distant Talmud. 810 00:48:14,240 --> 00:48:16,560 Listening to your sherim, there's really such a tremendous 811 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:19,200 warmth that comes through even through my earphones while I'm 812 00:48:19,200 --> 00:48:21,720 doing other things. And I wanted to ask you if you 813 00:48:21,720 --> 00:48:25,400 have any parting thoughts or advice about the place that that 814 00:48:25,400 --> 00:48:27,680 warmth should play in our lives as Jews today. 815 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:32,440 To me, you know, sometimes people think, think this is is a 816 00:48:32,440 --> 00:48:34,240 kidding from saying something unusual. 817 00:48:34,760 --> 00:48:39,280 To me, I just don't understand why people instinctively don't 818 00:48:39,280 --> 00:48:43,680 see how simple and important this is. 819 00:48:44,120 --> 00:48:49,440 The idea that, you know, people in this modern age and are so 820 00:48:49,440 --> 00:48:53,920 lonely, they feel so lost, they feel so disconnected, and they 821 00:48:53,920 --> 00:48:56,480 feel they're being judged, they're being criticized, 822 00:48:56,880 --> 00:49:01,320 they're being broken down. And just a single word, a single 823 00:49:01,320 --> 00:49:03,800 sentence that I care about you that I'm not sure of you. 824 00:49:04,160 --> 00:49:07,480 And even in care of, it's very important sometimes. 825 00:49:08,360 --> 00:49:11,280 No, the message that's given to a Balchuva or to a potential 826 00:49:11,280 --> 00:49:14,120 Balchuva is like, you're a nobody, but we'll make you 827 00:49:14,120 --> 00:49:19,200 somebody that doesn't work the way you're macare somebody is 828 00:49:19,200 --> 00:49:22,880 not by showing how bad they are, it's by showing them how good 829 00:49:22,920 --> 00:49:25,760 they already are. And then they're motivated to 830 00:49:25,760 --> 00:49:31,040 become, to become better. So the idea of building people 831 00:49:31,080 --> 00:49:37,320 up is such a usote in life and in Judaism and in Torah and in 832 00:49:37,320 --> 00:49:39,600 Kira. Build people up. 833 00:49:39,600 --> 00:49:43,800 Don't knock them down, don't criticize, don't denigrate. 834 00:49:44,320 --> 00:49:47,440 Understand that if people are not living up to the standard 835 00:49:47,440 --> 00:49:50,440 that you wish they would live up to, maybe they're not ready for 836 00:49:50,440 --> 00:49:53,880 that, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is without value, 837 00:49:54,800 --> 00:49:55,960 the time. You know, I'm learning. 838 00:49:55,960 --> 00:49:57,000 I happen to be giving. Sure. 839 00:49:57,000 --> 00:50:01,480 I'm now in the beautiful, magnificent cypher Tom Reduvira, 840 00:50:01,480 --> 00:50:04,000 which, you know, everybody should learn and tell me what's 841 00:50:04,000 --> 00:50:07,440 all about this. And he talks about the notion of 842 00:50:07,440 --> 00:50:12,000 having coverage for everybody. Everybody has something 843 00:50:12,000 --> 00:50:16,240 worthwhile about. And again, unfortunately in the 844 00:50:16,240 --> 00:50:19,920 Torah world, sometimes we're very much into denigration how 845 00:50:19,920 --> 00:50:22,880 bad this is. And that is and that is and that 846 00:50:22,880 --> 00:50:24,840 is. And I understand the need for 847 00:50:24,840 --> 00:50:27,960 that because we need to sometimes clarify what are 848 00:50:27,960 --> 00:50:29,680 kosher ideas, what are traif ideas. 849 00:50:29,680 --> 00:50:35,600 So I'm not dismissing the need to condemn many, many things, 850 00:50:36,440 --> 00:50:40,880 but it turns into such a personal nastiness and sarcasm 851 00:50:41,120 --> 00:50:45,840 and cynicism that ultimately I think you know yourself get 852 00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,840 destroyed with those anatus, you're destroying yourself with 853 00:50:49,840 --> 00:50:54,640 that negativity. So I look at no in the bed, look 854 00:50:54,640 --> 00:50:56,120 at someone like Ralph Cook going all the way. 855 00:50:56,120 --> 00:51:00,080 You know, many, many years ago as someone who saw even in 856 00:51:00,080 --> 00:51:04,520 secular Zionism, he saw a goodness that was working 857 00:51:04,920 --> 00:51:07,040 beneath the the surface appearances. 858 00:51:07,600 --> 00:51:10,560 And I think that we should need to cultivate that meat in 859 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:12,200 ourselves. And I think I'm La Misa. 860 00:51:12,480 --> 00:51:16,000 I think that's what Ramosha Cadivara was saying in the Timer 861 00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:18,560 Zabira. Rabbi Yitzhak Breidowitz, it's 862 00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,960 been a great honor and really illuminating to hear all of your 863 00:51:20,960 --> 00:51:22,680 insights today. Thank you so much for joining 864 00:51:22,680 --> 00:51:24,440 us. You should have much much. 865 00:51:24,440 --> 00:51:26,840 That's a lot and breatha in everything that you're doing. 866 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:28,480 Thank you. Thank you. 867 00:51:36,040 --> 00:51:38,840 Thank you so much for tuning in. To start take, if you're still 868 00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:40,760 listening at this point that means that you've enjoyed. 869 00:51:41,080 --> 00:51:43,840 Please take a moment to give us a five star review, make sure 870 00:51:43,840 --> 00:51:47,040 that you're subscribed and share this episode with a few friends. 871 00:51:47,400 --> 00:51:50,080 I want to thank our production team Yoni, Schwartz, Yitzuch, 872 00:51:50,080 --> 00:51:53,560 Ribbon and Yossi Book. Until next week, keep on Stag 873 00:51:53,560 --> 00:51:54,120 and Cobra. Thank. 874 00:51:56,160 --> 00:51:56,240 You.