You are about to hear a conversation with a world around
posting whose she earned have 10s of thousands of weekly
listeners, you might be wondering.
That's very nice, but this is Stark Tank, which is about the
challenges and opportunities of being a mentor in the workforce.
What's the connection? Well, our guest today, Rick and
Flip Breidowitz, went to Harvard Law School, started out as an
attorney, and continued on to a career as a tenured law
professor. We spoke about his secular
career, his journey to the Ravenant, and what he thinks is
the most underrated aspect of our spiritual lives.
Before we begin this week's episode, I want to share a quick
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VHP developed a digital platform that allows for flexibility and
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Now it's time for this week's conversation with Ravi Itzhak
Rightowitz. My name is Jacob Wolf and this
is Stark Tank, so it's a great honor to have
you here. And thank you so much for
joining us today. Thank you so much for having me.
Our goal today is to trace your journey as a row of Atomic
Hochman, but also a professional who made a Parnassa.
So let's start from the very, very beginning.
Can you tell us a little bit about your childhood and where
you grew up? So I grew up in the Hartford CT,
which had a very small Orthodox community.
It was not a yeshiva town per SE, but it was a very, very warm
and loving loving place. And my parents sent me to the
local day school and in those days there was no Salman Sheftu,
there's no Conservative or Reform day schools.
So as a result, even the Orthodox Toram Soros schools had
largely non schomer Shabbos kids.
So most of my class, it was a Coed school #1 and most of my
classmates were not shomer Shabbos.
But you know, one of the things you learn in smaller towns is
you get along, you respect people.
I think there's some very valuable lessons there.
And amazingly enough, although most of the kids in the day
school were not shomer Shabbos at all, many of them, I'm not
sure if it's a majority, but many of them went on to yeshivos
after after graduating 8th grade, whether it was near
Israel, Baltimore which I went to, which was very popular for
Hartford or why you, or Philadelphia or or Scranton.
And this was because there were certain rabbis.
That was a Rabbi Bats if Weidl of Rough in particular, who had
such a sweet, non judgmental way of talking to people that he
literally could go into somebody on Shabbos who was watching TV
and just talk to them about sending their kid to yeshiva.
And he was remarkably successful.
That that taught me a very important lesson.
That kind of kindness and openness is much more effective
in transforming people than simply being critical and
judgmental. So I went to near Israel because
there were many, many Hartford boys who had gone to near Israel
and they would learn with us in the summer.
And I really was very excited about that and we had an annual
class trip. So I visited Neri Israel in 6th,
6th grade, 7th grade and 8th grade and I really was so much
taken. It was like the highlight of my
of my ear. So eventually I went to Neri.
So my parents were originally very reluctant because they they
had thought that Neri Israel kids didn't go to college, they
didn't become professionals, although that's not entirely
true. And they were going to send me
the Shiva diversity, which I imagine would have been OK also,
but but I really wanted. My heart was set at Neri Israel
and I had some rabbis who were great, great advocates for me.
But I my my ability to go was conditional on my pursuing
college and and a professional education, which is one of the
reasons why I felt I had to do what what I did.
And that really interesting, the fact that near you Stroll was
connected to the smaller communities like Hartford.
And so you had that presence in your life already beforehand.
So you want to go to near Austral.
Your parents were a little bit reluctant, but you ended up
going. So how did that transition go
from Hartford moving on to near Austral?
So I came to near Austral for high school.
I I was a 14 year old boy in 1967 or 8.
I'm not sure I have to go back and compute my age and I
remember that I was so homesick. I was so heartbroken at being
separated. Of Connecticut to Baltimore is
around 300 mile journey and I had never really been away from
home before and I remember crying on the phone to my
parents and they said, you know, we think you should stay again.
It was such a lovely thing they said, but if you want us to
come, we will come and pick you up.
But you know, we think it'll be better for you to stay.
And that was a remarkable sacrifice.
In fact, my father told me later that after they got off the
phone, they were crying because they they they really wanted me
to be with them, but they understood what was the
important thing. I didn't know that until until
later. And I was in Nerysreal, and
Nerysreal is, was and is a college yeshiva in the sense
that Buckram are allowed to go to college.
Meaning at night there's there was a bus that took us twice a
week for classes and the like. Now it's a little different.
Now the yeshiva itself can offer a bachelor's, so you can go to
Graduate School without ever taking secular courses.
In my day, the yeshiva gave you 50% of your credits, but you had
to get the remainder from Johns Hopkins or Loyola or Towson or
something like that. So I was under the old system
and no Brooke Hashem I I I learned to Nerysreal.
I also went to college along with, you know, most of my my
fellow students. I got a Smirka from Rudiman
Sequino le Brecha, one of the Godoli Adore, the founding
Rosheshiva of Nerysreal. But then at some point I
finished college. I had smirka.
The question would be what should I do?
Before we move on, I just want to ask about your Smirka 'cause
you know, Aruv and you said that you got Smirka back in the
Israel, So what did that entail? Yeah, so.
So now Israel does not really have an organized Smirka program
to this very day. They don't unlike let's say Yu.
So in their Israel, Smirka basically means that you took
time off to learn Yoridea, no say Kalem in Taruvo,
Spaserbachalov, Malika, sometimes Shakita, Veilas and
the like. And that could be in addition to
your regular Sedarim. Or that could be you could
replace a seder with Yoridea. So really we didn't have Shiorim
in Yoridea. And you know, one could argue
that that wasn't the best way of getting Samira, but we simply
learnt the Shukranoric and the no, say Kaylin and sometimes the
Gomorrah sugias, which is the, you know, the most important way
of learning it. And then we got bikinis.
So we did get Buffinis. We got Buffinis from the Rosh
Hashima's Guenel of Breva and the main Bokraine was also a
great man. My Rebhie why you and other
other places have more of an organized program where they
have courses in counseling and you know various other issues.
Rebut him a face in my case and I think every nerys almost must
that aspect was on the job experience.
We need to say we didn't get it so much in yeshiva.
We got it as we took the positions.
So we got it. I will say that Nerysville as a
Yeshiva and all of the Rabayim were models of interpersonal
sensitivities, although they didn't give us a course in how
to counsel people or or or or or whenever.
But I think we, we did absorb a lot of positive attitudes from
the Ribeyam themselves, from the Rashiva himself.
So I guess you could say in a very indirect way that was kind
of a Smecha training program, but there was no organized
courses. I mean, there were no Shih Ori
Mignarradea. There were no shihorim in
management of a show. It was just learning the
Helencos and then getting tested on them.
And you mentioned that at a certain point in your time in
Austral, there was an inflection point where you sort of had to
decide what the next stage was going to be.
So can you tell us about what happened there?
It was a confluence of a lot of different factors.
And number one, I had gotten Samika and I had gotten my
bachelor's from college #2. I was thinking about my parental
commitment, my commitment to my parents, who very much, I mean,
listen, a lot of people simply change their mind and say, hey,
you know, I'm in yeshiva, I'm going to stay #3I myself had a
certain restlessness at that stage of my life where I needed
to explore different options. I I wasn't sure at that point in
my life whether full time learning was the the direction
that I should take or I needed to be involved in some secular
pursuit. And that, of course was really
the essence of the dilemma. My many of my Russia Shivas felt
they wanted me to stay in full time learning.
They didn't want me to leave the yeshiva, they didn't want me to
pursue a secular career. It was a very, very agonizing
decision, a very difficult decision, my Russia, Shiva
insisted. Then I talked to Raviakov
Kamenetsky, He's a Colonel of Ravi Yadav.
Kamenetsky is was Ravidovan's first cousin.
They were very close. And Raviakov, of course, was
known as not just a guttal Batora, but just a very wise
person who was exceptional, you know, understanding people and
giving Asus. So Ravridovan wanted me to talk
to Raviakov Kamenetsky and I remember going up to Muncie.
I think I was 22 at the time. That was a pretty long time ago
and I was just amazed Raviakov. I thought Raviakov would talk to
me for 10 minutes or something. He gave me 3 hours of his time
sitting in shirt sleeves at his kitchen table and he acted as if
he had nothing else to do in the world.
It was just the most amazing thing he spoke with the
kindness, with humor, with a constant smile.
And the one thing I remember which is still very exceptional
to me is that I came with a particular question about going
to law school. And you know, he never answered
the question. He just wanted to be sure that I
understood all of the different factors and he wanted me to come
to the realization of what is the right resolution.
For me. And to me, this is a model of
how a parent should behave with their children and how a Rep
should behave with this. I'll need him not to kind of
micromanage, not to no demand a certain conformity, but to give
the person the kalem, the utensils to be able to come to
their own inner understanding. So Yaakov would say that you
think of this, and what about this?
And what about this? And what about that?
But he never told me to go and he never told me not to go.
And the Mascanas Hadjvarim was. I'm not telling you what to do,
but but whatever you do you have to use in your Abbotta Sashem.
You cannot have a dichotomy between a professional life and
a spiritual life. You have to bring spirituality
into every aspect of your life. And this really was a you sowed
God Alma oath. I have to admit that some of my
rebellion in Derry, Israel, didn't believe my account of
that conversation because it may not have been what they would
have expected. Yakov spoken Yiddish.
My Yiddish wasn't great. Maybe I misunderstood, but I'm.
I'm pretty sure I got the gist of of of Raviakov's point and it
was remarkable. It really was one of the great,
great experiences of my life to see the Metos of the God old, to
see his kindness, to see his wisdom and to see the fact that
he wasn't going to tell me what to do.
He wanted me to kind of be Mevarer, to clarify my own
question, and his job was to be a facilitator, to bring out
those Coke hosts from within me. That's really a remarkable thing
because we often have a tendency to try to remake people in our
image, and Raviakov showed me that that is not necessarily the
Dara Katora. So, so once in a way, he made
the question harder, because by telling, by essentially telling
me it's up to me, you know, I didn't have the solace of being
told what to do. But at that point I I did decide
that I needed to just explore those other options as well as
fulfill what I thought was my obligation to my parents.
I don't mean a halakhic obligation, Technically Tom
Mater would override, keep it up the aim.
So I'm not suggesting any Sakhalaka here, but for me at
least, I did feel a a moral obligation and I went to law
school. I was there for for three years.
That interaction with Raviakov Kamenetsky is remarkable on so
many levels. If I understood correctly, three
things happened there. Number one is you got a sense of
personal responsibility that you can't outsource these decisions.
#2 You got the self-confidence of a Godel Batora that you have
the ability and the competence to make those decisions.
And that leads to #3, which is you were set up in a way that
wherever you ended up in life, you were always going to feel
like you're in a La Catrilla situation because there's no
right and wrong answer. Then whatever you end up
deciding is going to be la Catrilla and you'll never feel
like your life is a form of bidievid.
Did I understand that correctly? I think that is correct and I I
also want to point out that the the, although I don't think
Raviakov used the lunch on, but I have heard that very phrase
that your life has to be la Katifela.
I heard it from another pivotal, legendary figure of Neri's
realm. That was Harevnav's Ali
Neuberger Zicardo Lebrafa, who was Reverterman's right hand man
in terms of being the executive director of Neri Strael.
Very, very legendary person. And he would constantly tell the
Tamidum of Neri Israel, your life has to be a la Katsila and
not a Beaday for making a Kiddush Hashem and serving Claw
Israel. So you're transitioning from
near Israel to Harvard, and you have this mandate from Avako
Kamenetsky to find ways to incorporate Avodah Hashem and
making a Kiddush Hashem at that point in time.
Did you have any idea what that might end up looking like?
Or was it sort of this journey similar to Avram Avinu where he
was going to a land by Carswara? Who said when you get there,
you'll realize that you got there without really knowing the
destination, without a clearly delineated path from point A to
point B? You know, at the time I I didn't
have a clear sense of what would happen because there were a lot
of different things that could happen, many of which did
happen. It could be they'll go to law
school and have a law degree, but then I'll you know be full
time Rob on this or full time Dina.
It could be that my prognosa will be from law and then I will
learn and teach Torah on the side as an avocation.
I'm meaning I didn't have a clear Mossad of of what my
career path would be. I was aware of the different
choices and you know, perhaps, maybe through laziness or
inertia, I kind of said, well, let's see, let's see what
happens. Let's see where this journey
takes us. I had, I think, I think I had
good cavanos in terms of wanting to do something for the Jewish
people or for at least the community.
But I didn't have a specific sense at the time where this
would leave lead. But you know, as I say, as as I
progressed, even in law school, things became a little more
clear to me simply because different opportunities fell
into my lap. Whether it was learning with
people. Whether it was I I remember I
was a relatively close to the bust of the rabbis according to
the Raja Rev Levitzer Karowitz in Boston.
And a few times even as a law student, I had the honor of
substituting for him in a Demoris year that he gave.
You know, I was not a substitute for him, obviously.
But whatever he did, Demoris Sharon Shabbos.
So I, I, I did that. So I found myself being nim
shocked towards teaching, towards being involved in
Torafino in various ways. So that at least convinced me or
persuaded me that whatever my career would be, whatever my job
would be, there would be a very strong component of of teaching
Torah. That's that's really what I
loved, what I love to do. And you mentioned how in Boston
you had a connection with the Boston Rebbe.
Boston is my old hometown and people have a misconception that
Boston is a city of crazy drivers and sports teams.
But they're has always been a very strong to our presence in
the city. So maybe you can tell us a
little bit about your recollections of the Jewish
community of Boston back when you spent time there.
Well, it's a few things. You know, my first year of law
school, I lived in the Young Israel neighborhood.
Well, I lived in Brookline, MA. That's the worst thing I want to
say. I did not live in Cambridge.
So you know The Maine as you know The Maine Orthodox
community of the Boston area is concentrated in Brookline and
Brighton at least that it was as so my first year of law school I
lived in the young Israel community near Green Street and
the Rev at the time was actually a very great man.
It was knifter fairly recently reviewed the Kellemer.
He was a young Rev then his most of his career he spent in
Northwoodmere. But I knew him as a young Rev
and I remember immediately I had just come from there Israel.
So maybe I had the arrogance of the Yeshiva Bucker who thinks
that Shilraban and Maram Maratha and I I quickly discovered, I
quickly discovered what a phenomenal Thomas Tougham.
He was like the first day that that I met him.
So that was a very, very impressive person.
But he was also very kind person.
And there's a recent biography Hanuf Teller wrote about Rev
Kellemer. And the stories there are
really, really, really amazing. I can't say I knew him well and
I didn't know most of those types of stories, but that's the
type of person he was for the second and third year of law
school. I was near the bust, near bust,
near show and I was Zoka to know the bust near Rebbe.
I spent many, many shop me and 100 other people.
I spent many, many Shabbos by the bust near Rebbe and I knew
his son who's now the busting rebbe in Harnow for Mayor
Horowitz. I knew him as even as a single
person. He had gotten married while I
was there. And the one thing I'll say about
the Bustner Rebbe, which is quite amazing, you know, the
Buster Rebbe was of course a Thomas Crockham.
But when the Buster Rebbe would talk, it would tend to be
relatively simple thoughts. He did not speak in complicated
way, convoluted ways. And I always wondered that the
people who came to his Shabbos table were Harvard, MIT.
They were like super intellectuals.
Why were they coming to this relatively simple experience?
But then I realized very quickly that it was the warmth, It was
the caring once again, kind of when I talked about it, heart,
my heart for the experience. It was the sense of, you know,
being at home and and as I say and and and that that further
reinforced an idea that's fundamental to me, that the love
and and caring that a person gets as much more influential.
And whether they become religious, then the formal
philosophical arguments for the existence of God or the proof of
Torah Minashamaya, it is the warmth that brings people to
Akhileshbar. And the Basni Rebbe was
exceptional in that way in terms of his care, in terms of his
compassion. He organized the international
project of Rofe for medical care for people who came all over the
world for medical care in Boston.
And the Rebbe not only gave them accommodations and lodging and
food, but he also arranged their medical care.
He arranged appointments with the most eminent physicians.
I remember one time I was diving next to a person in the the
rebbe's base Madras, and somebody told me later that
person who was of Schmuler Rozovsky.
I had never even heard of REF Schmuler Rozovsky.
He was the Rashiva Potovich. He was Mama Shegodel.
I I use his Swarim today with tremendous tremendous enthusiasm
and he was just stopping next to me like a ball of bus.
He's unfortunately was going to Boston for cancer treat but the
busty rebbe like treated them dealt with everybody from the
God Olshibige dolum to really the people who were you know not
necessarily famous not necessarily well known and his
house was open 24/7, 24/7 mamish for any type of Cyrus.
So from him I saw kindness and warmth and compassion.
And I'm digressing a little bit here, but how did the Boston
Irby end up with all these college kids at his campus?
Did he go out to the campus and recruit?
How did they find out about this?
As far as I know, and I I I can't say I know this for sure.
I don't think he did any recruiting at all.
It was all word of mouth. The concept was that people were
starving for connection. They were starving for some type
of Yiddish guide. They wanted to get out of the
sterile, you know, intellectualism of the
university campus. And you know, one guy went and
eventually it spreads that this is the place to go.
I I don't think it it wasn't like combat or anything.
He wasn't doing recruiting. People just gravitate.
And typically there were more than 100 people at his Shabbos
table, I think. And one thing I remember that's
so interesting, they started Hasidis and Kabbalah.
He would never make kiddish between 6:00 and 7:00 because
that's the time that the Mazel of Mars Madam is so late.
And it's a bad, it's not auspicious.
So I remember that if we finished my rymph 5:45, there
was a mad, insane rush to get up there and do kiddish, because if
it was 70, I'm sorry, If it was 601, we wouldn't have to wait a
whole hour. So I remember, I remember that
rush to kind of get kiddush in before Mazal Madhim Madhim came.
And did you get a chance to meet Rossolovicic?
Brookline, of course, had another phenomenal, phenomenally
great man That was Raviosevo Solovicic, known as the Rav.
And of course the Rav was the the head Rosheshiva and Magid
Shirovaiyu and the one who gave Samira.
So his working week was in New York, but he came to Boston.
He lived in Boston actually, and he came back to Boston every
Shabbos or to Brooklyn every Shabbos.
And you know, he was the founder of the Maimonides School and
that's where he Dobbins. It was not my neighborhood, but
I would go there occasionally and I would sometimes go to the
Moss a Shabbos. He gave a Mos a Shabbos home
share. Then he gave me a Sunday morning
Gomorrah share as well as, you know, kino's, you know, special
events. I did not go to the Sunday
morning Gomorrah share, but I did go occasionally to the
Mosaic Shabbos Commishir. And what can I say about the
Ralph, the Ralph's brilliance? Everybody knows his clarity, his
beautiful way of explaining things.
But I do want to point out that although I I can't say I knew
him well, I'm not going to make that claim at all.
But he too, People look at him as a cult of Litvak, a cold
Lithuanian who was only, you know, a thinker.
He was. He had his remittance, were very
very warm and kind and friendly people and they too had guests
on shoppers. Now now he they didn't have like
the bus to ready. They didn't have 100 people.
But you know college students found their way to the RAVS
table and they too benefited from from not only his
brilliance but also his warmth. So it's important for people to
know that there is another side to RAVS.
Olivetic decides being the brilliant, the obviously
brilliant, brilliant thinker, an enormous Talmud Khachem that he
was. He was a person who genuinely,
genuinely cared for people and his share was phenomenal.
His share was brilliant and you know they say there are people
who are much, much. I mean, I can't, can't really
say I was close to him and all I I may have spoken 4 words to him
and may have met him, but I did hear him a number of times and
again it blew me. It certainly blew me away.
Returning back to your story, we talked about how you were able
to go to law school in Harvard, also find opportunities to teach
Torah on the side. So when you finished and
graduated, what was the next step for you?
So the next stage was I moved to Chicago, and that made no sense
at all because I'm not from Chicago.
But I had a very good friend from there, Israel, who lived in
Chicago, and he wanted me to visit him.
So I told him I can't afford the the airfare.
So he said why don't you sign up for an interview with a law firm
cause in in Harvard. I I went to Harvard to law
school and there you had law firms who came to the law school
to interview you and if they liked you after an initial
interview they would pay for a trip so they could check you out
in the firm you could check them out.
So he said why don't you just sign up for a interview Chicago
law firm interview and then they'll pay for your trip.
So I said hey that's dishonest. What are you talking about?
I'm going to get a free trip to Chicago, and I have no intention
whatsoever to work in Chicago. So he said, you know, you never
know, you may like it in Chicago.
So I signed up for some Chicago Law School law firm interviews
and I got my trip to Chicago. I visited my friends and lo and
behold, that Kurdish Farka didn't want me to be dishonest.
So I actually took a job with a law firm in Chicago.
I lived in West Rogers Park. I lived in Chicago for four
years. I was OK to meet my wife in
Chicago. So now I understand why I went
to to Chicago and Chicago too, was, was, and it still is a
lovely, lovely, lovely Jewish community.
You know, the Midwest is different than the Northeast.
The Midwest is very, very warm. When people are in shopping, in
store lines, food store lines, they talk to each other.
But you don't see that much on the east, on the East Coast and
birth Hashem. Today, many years later, Chicago
has much more to ridiculous a different color limit the like
that weren't there when I was there, but even then there was a
solid frim community, a facidish community, a Shiva Shiva
community that was tells Yeshiva of Chicago that that is still
there. And that's where, although I was
working as a lawyer in a big law firm, I was working as a lawyer
full time. But that's really where I began
to do more and more teaching. I did teaching.
There was a balchuva yeshiva in Chicago, only more of a part
time yeshiva. There weren't any full time
students. It was called Mick Del Tora Rab
of Ram Alter Rabbi Aaron Levitansky, Ravi Isaf Heisler.
They established this, this Mysat, and I don't know exactly
how they knew about me. See, I I don't, I really don't
know like why was I approached? That's kind of a little bit of a
mystery because I was just a guy who moved to Chicago and doing a
lesson. But somehow I I got involved and
that's where my teaching began in a stronger way.
In law school, I was teaching isolated individuals.
I was not giving any classes. In Chicago is where I began to
teach classes. I remember now teaching halakha,
teaching Tanakh, the safer shmuelo, for example, Jhome
shyorim. So you could say that I got my
feet wet in the four years than I spent in in Chicago.
And then what caused you to leave Chicago and what was the
next step? So what caused me to leave
Chicago was this. Even though I was working as a
as a law firm, I really wanted to be a law professor.
Number one, I like teaching even law #2.
The hours would be much easier as a law professor, which would
give me more time for learning and for teaching teaching Torah.
So I applied. There's a nationwide registry
where if you're interested in law teaching, you submit a
resume, and then different law schools invite you.
So for a while, I actually taught at the University of
Illinois in Champaign, Urbana. I was commuting, it was a two
200 miles. So I would take this little
commuter airline Brit Airways and I was gone for three days a
week and then home for the rest of the week.
And I remember the commuter airway in Chicago winters, you
know, you feel like the plane is going to be blown out of the
sky, etcetera, kind of scary. And I taught in Champaign,
Urbana for a year and a half, and I liked it a lot.
But they gave me an ultimatum at some point.
They basically said you need to be here more more often than you
are. So you have to move down here.
Either you move down here or, you know, you got to find
another job. So my wife and I, I had just
gotten married. I had taken the Champagne Urbana
job before I was married. I was engaged.
We got married. So number one, to be there for
part of the week is very difficult for Shana Rishona.
But to move to champagne in those days, there was no mikvah.
There was no very, very tiny Orthodox presence.
There were only two professors who were Shoba Shabbos, so we
were agonizing over this decision.
Should we move to Champaign, Urbana.
We were actually on the verge of doing it, but at the last minute
we thought it wouldn't be good for our Jewish life, for our
firm type. So as a result, I had to leave
the University of Illinois, even though I was very happy there.
So when I applied for other schools, the one school, there
were only maybe two or three schools that may be an offer,
but the one school that sounded the best was the University of
Maryland that was located in Baltimore.
And I thought that was providential in some ways
because I learned to know Israel and to be able to go back to
Baltimore would be kind of a return to my yeshiva roots.
So because of that, after four years in Chicago, my wife and I,
we didn't have children at the time.
We relocated to Baltimore, MD. I was not around in Baltimore.
I again, I was a law professor at the University of Maryland,
but in Baltimore too, I gave El Shiora, and here the teaching
got a little more heavy. I gave a Dafyomi share for four
years. And Brofishan Brofishan.
It enabled me at that time to teach a large part of shots,
including receptus of cod ship, very difficult receptus and the
like. So my teaching expanded in
Baltimore. I was told, you know, I was
working with another bolt shuva organization, Ace Higham, which
is still there, established by a hover of my reporter.
He should be well and still running it in Baltimore.
And I was there for four years and I was not yet a rough.
And then we have the next stage of moving to Silver Spring.
Before we move on to the Silver Spring years, I want to follow
up with a question about your time in Baltimore.
So you mentioned that you were working as a law professor and
you were ramping up your Torah teaching on the side.
Tell us a little bit practically how that worked, how you made
time for everything. Well, I I was a full time law
professor and of course that included writing articles.
But a law professor's teaching load, Maybe I shouldn't say this
is relatively light. It's between 4 to 8 hours a
week. 8 hours would be an absolute maximum.
Now obviously, you know, 8 hours of classroom time requires
preparation as well. Some people say, oh, I think
that's obsessive, that you need 10 hours of preparation for
every hour of classroom time. That's that ain't not the case.
But you need preparation, particularly when you're a
beginning teacher. You know, once you've taught a
course, for a lot of times the preparation time goes down
dramatically, as it did indeed, but initially it took a lot of
effort. But basically the classroom
hours were relatively light. The preparation I could handle
during the day, but even during the day I had time in my office
to sit and learn and and the like.
And then in the evenings I I taught.
So as I thought, as I said, one of the reasons I went into
teaching was because it gave me a more flexible schedule.
Oh, as well as summer's off. Let me point that out as well,
that unless you're teaching in the summer school, you know, in
law school, spring semester is over in May and it doesn't start
again till the end of August. So you have a big, big chunk of
time where you don't have a commitment.
Now, obviously if you're doing scholarship, you know you have
to write as well. But one interesting thing about
law school is that they consider Jewish law as an academic
subject. So for example, if I would write
an article which thinks I did on, you know, the Jewish law's
perspective on abortion or Jewish law's perspective on the
law of war, that would be acceptable scholarship for law
school, even though it involves learning total.
In fact, I got tenure based on a book I wrote about Aguna right,
about the halautic and legal issues of protecting agunauts
who are women who do not get, who cannot get a get from their
husband. So in a sense, the academic part
of it allowed me dovetail with a lot of Torah learning, although
not necessarily the Torah I was teaching.
So I was able to do a lot of learning as a law professor.
And at night I I did teaching, I did Dafyomi, I did other she or
other she or as as well. I want to say one thing I don't
I don't want to say that I was unique.
Many, many have followed a similar path in which they're
they're professional, very well regarded professionals who still
teach Torah and learn Torah A tremendous amount of the day.
I have one more question about your time in Chicago and
Baltimore, and that is the question of identity.
At this point you didn't have any formal rabbinic position, so
how do you think about yourself? What was your self conception at
that point? Well, I I certainly did not
consider myself a rug because I was not a rug.
I had Smeagol, but I was not a rug with a shill or anything
like that. But I considered myself, you
know, hopefully you know, a a Ben Tora who regarded his
learning and teaching of Torah as the icker activity of his
life and the law teaching was was a parnosa was a parnosa that
I I found interesting and I found it enabled me to learn and
it allowed me to support my family.
And it also was a little bit of a tool of outreach.
I mean there are a few people who became from because
initially initially, you know, they were law students of mine
and they saw the Yamilka and the citizens and you know that
attracted him. So at least indirectly I there
was a little bit of a key roof component as well.
But I think I regarded myself as as a Bala bus who considered the
Tyra to be the icker, the icker thing in his life which isn't a
perfectly good because in Baltimore that was a model.
You know there are certain communities where sometimes
that's a little difficult era. Just for example sometimes in
Yerushalayim it's difficult for a ballabass to have a a
definition does basically he's not in Kohel.
In other words, he's defined by a negative, I think in a place
like Baltimore because of the hush guff of their Israel, the
the Balabas that was Kabaya, itam Letaira, you know, had a
very esteemed and respected role in the community, and I think
that's a good thing. Can you unpack that a little
more? What was it about Naisirah that
was so conducive to becoming a professional who was also a
Ventura? O Moreno Herrera Shiva Sequena
Labrafa Rivisa Yakovitsa Grou was rooted in the idea of Tyra
his everything. Tyra's the most important for
and ideally a person should make himself in the I love little
Tyra as a Rebbe, as a Margaret Sheer, as a Marvitz, Tyra as a
Roshi Shiva. And yet what's so interesting is
that even the many, many tomidim of Neri Israel who did not go
into the full time Kinnock world, did not remain in the
Yeshiva world, became doctors, lawyers, accountants,
businessmen. One of the most common things
that the Rutshiva was Mushrish in all of his Talmudin was that
whatever you do, your Taiya and your Akhrayas to Claulius well
has to be the fundamental central point of your life.
So in a sense what the Rutshiva took from Slobodkin that Taira
is the Igoritheus was received by the tamidum whether they
stayed in the yeshiva world or whether they did it Boruchachen.
Many, many, many tamidum of Neri Israel are in the yeshiva world
with Abras Floren but either a bonus or whatever it would be
Clay Kaidek. But even those who are not, you
find that they are the muggi de Shir of Dafyomi, that they are
giving shiur and that they have carusas that they learn hours
before they go to work and hours after they come back.
And not only in their learning, but they're also people who tea.
There are people who take Akrayas for the day, skulls for
the Mikvahs for the Scholes, for the community, Kayla.
So in a sense one of the peduchen, I think.
That Dravidiman pioneered in there Israel, he was not the
only one, but certainly was one of the major major forces, is
the idea, as Shlomo Hamelov says in Michelay, but called you up
in all of your pathways. You come to know God.
You know Hashem not only if your vocation happens to be in Aveda
Sakaedesh, but even if your vocation happens to be in a
secular field. It's Moloktatha Rai.
Your moloka is an important part of your life, but it's not the
acre. The acre is your Torah, your
mitzvahs, your heseds, your involvement in the needs of
Claudius Rail. And that would also add, as
least as an aside, that there was she would put in extreme
importance on Shalom bias on the relationship of a husband and a
wife, and the need for a husband to care for his wife and show
her that he cared. That too was one of the great,
great lessons that he inspired. So as a result, I think that
every Talmud of Neri Israel absorbed in their lifebloods the
Kashivas of Tyra, and it becomes manifest in many, many different
ways. But once again, there was no
sense that that you're either in full time learning or forget
about it. Rather everybody Kufinkeihei
considers the Lima Datera to be the essential aspect of it.
And when did you actually join the Rabbinate?
So what happened was I I was in Baltimore just as a law
professor from 1983 to 1988. In 1988 I was approached by a
Shoal in Silver Spring that had been around for many many years
but without a Rav because some of the founding Balabatim, some
of them are still there in the shelf to this day.
You know were had Smeekhra, they were Yodea Seifer, they were
Lambdonum and they kind of ran things but at some point they
decided they needed a Rav and they always said it was very
accurate to get a Rav because they wanted a Rav.
It was both knowledgeable in toe wrap and had a good secular
background because so many of the the membership in the
Woodside Synagogue of Silver Spring themselves were graduates
of Harvard Law School or very, you know, very prominent
lawyers. Washington is a very big lawyer
town. And a lot of the from people of
my show who live in Silver Spring, a suburb of Washington,
came there to be government lawyers, government service
lawyers. So they weren't rich because
they were government lawyers, but they were bright, They were
smart. And as a result, they they had
difficulty finding a Ralph and they asked me to try out.
How did they find me? Once again, it's a bit of a
mystery, but I think somebody in the show knew me from their E
Rail like a younger one of the younger people was in their E
Rail alumnus. So they had me come for a
prepper. They had become for Shabba
Saglar doll to speak like four or five times.
I remember there was a long, grueling interview about what do
I think about your mod Smollett? You know, it's a show that has
diverse points of the spectrum, but they did.
They did to hire me. They did hire me.
They could only offer me a part time salary, so they actually
required that. I maintain my law school
affiliation with the University of Maryland.
But as I say, once I became a route #1, I had to relocate from
Baltimore to Silver Spring, even though the University of
Maryland law school was still in Baltimore.
So I had to do that commute every day, which, you know,
wasn't so bad, but it was a a commute.
But as I tell people, the way I describe it at that point is
that most of my salary comes from law school teaching.
Most of my time was devoted to abundance.
There's no such thing as a part time Robinus.
There was only a part time salary for a full time Robinus.
And that became, you know, my primary vocation for more than
22 years, 23 years, although one year was a sabbatical.
Richest rail actually 1999 and Bertha Sham.
It's a lovely community you know Obviously we have we have every
community has its problems and its tensions.
But I'm I'm still in very close contact.
Even though it's been 13 years, 14 years, Paul, since I left.
I'm still in contact with many, many members of the of the
community. So it's a very, very important
part of our lives. This is where we raid.
We have only one one son who lives in Baltimore.
This is where we raised our son and it was a lovely community to
raise children in. It's really special to hear
about all the tremendous Seattle Deshmaya that you experienced
from Boston to Chicago and Baltimore, and then with the
keel and Silver Spring finding you.
And that makes this next question a little bit of a funny
one. But I think it's interesting to
think about. Do you ever think about what
might be different if you were a young man growing up today, how
that might look? Well, you know, it's it's a it's
a little hard it's a little hard to say I I I I think in some
ways and and it's hard to me because my my experience is
colored by living in Erich, Israel for a lot of years.
But I see in in the yeshiva world today a certain
narrowness, a certain exclusion, a certain inability to
appreciate the diversity and differences that exist within
people. There's more of a push towards
conformity towards A1 size fit all in which you either go with
the system or you know, or we simply have no use for you.
Maybe I'm exaggerating and maybe I'm being overly negative and I
and I apologize if that's the case.
But I think when I look at the great Brachon that Hashem gave
me was kind of being in environments that that were
responsive to individuality. It understood that people have
different drafted, people have different talents and that
Shlomo Melov says Hannokal and I will P Darka.
You have to educate a person according to their their deareth
and not try to remake them. And as a result, I think that
helped me personally a lot. To whatever degree I'm able to
help others, I try to pass that lesson, lesson on or pass that
approach on. Today, I think it's a little
harder. I'm not, I'm not sure exactly
why. Maybe it's as the world gets
more decadent, so we got to go to the other extreme of, you
know, circling the wagons. That sometimes happens, but I
think there's there's less tolerance, less openness, less
understanding of individual dynamics.
I'll use diversity, although diversity is kind of a TRAF word
with the average stuff and everything else, but I think
there's less appreciation for diversity and and one of the
great things of Neri Israel as the yeshiva historically, and
this goes back to Rev Ruderman being a Talmud of the altar of
Slobatka, was that it emphasized godless Sodom and it emphasized
the individuality of each person.
It was not a cookie cutter, one-size-fits-all.
And I think unfortunately we're seeing less and less of that in
the modern world. So it's hard to know how things
would have come out. They may not have come out the
same way. So it's a breath.
When a person is put into a certain timeframe, that's also a
breath. There's a reason why the Amber
strip put him in that particular time.
As I'm listening to you tell your story, I noticed how at
almost all of the stops, you recall and remember the warmth
that you felt, whether it's Hartford and in Baltimore and
Chicago and Silver Spring. And I now understand and
appreciate better the warmth that I feel as a distant Talmud.
Listening to your sherim, there's really such a tremendous
warmth that comes through even through my earphones while I'm
doing other things. And I wanted to ask you if you
have any parting thoughts or advice about the place that that
warmth should play in our lives as Jews today.
To me, you know, sometimes people think, think this is is a
kidding from saying something unusual.
To me, I just don't understand why people instinctively don't
see how simple and important this is.
The idea that, you know, people in this modern age and are so
lonely, they feel so lost, they feel so disconnected, and they
feel they're being judged, they're being criticized,
they're being broken down. And just a single word, a single
sentence that I care about you that I'm not sure of you.
And even in care of, it's very important sometimes.
No, the message that's given to a Balchuva or to a potential
Balchuva is like, you're a nobody, but we'll make you
somebody that doesn't work the way you're macare somebody is
not by showing how bad they are, it's by showing them how good
they already are. And then they're motivated to
become, to become better. So the idea of building people
up is such a usote in life and in Judaism and in Torah and in
Kira. Build people up.
Don't knock them down, don't criticize, don't denigrate.
Understand that if people are not living up to the standard
that you wish they would live up to, maybe they're not ready for
that, but that doesn't mean what they're doing is without value,
the time. You know, I'm learning.
I happen to be giving. Sure.
I'm now in the beautiful, magnificent cypher Tom Reduvira,
which, you know, everybody should learn and tell me what's
all about this. And he talks about the notion of
having coverage for everybody. Everybody has something
worthwhile about. And again, unfortunately in the
Torah world, sometimes we're very much into denigration how
bad this is. And that is and that is and that
is. And I understand the need for
that because we need to sometimes clarify what are
kosher ideas, what are traif ideas.
So I'm not dismissing the need to condemn many, many things,
but it turns into such a personal nastiness and sarcasm
and cynicism that ultimately I think you know yourself get
destroyed with those anatus, you're destroying yourself with
that negativity. So I look at no in the bed, look
at someone like Ralph Cook going all the way.
You know, many, many years ago as someone who saw even in
secular Zionism, he saw a goodness that was working
beneath the the surface appearances.
And I think that we should need to cultivate that meat in
ourselves. And I think I'm La Misa.
I think that's what Ramosha Cadivara was saying in the Timer
Zabira. Rabbi Yitzhak Breidowitz, it's
been a great honor and really illuminating to hear all of your
insights today. Thank you so much for joining
us. You should have much much.
That's a lot and breatha in everything that you're doing.
Thank you. Thank you.
Thank you so much for tuning in. To start take, if you're still
listening at this point that means that you've enjoyed.
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I want to thank our production team Yoni, Schwartz, Yitzuch,
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and Cobra. Thank.
You.