Sholam Alaikum and welcome to Stark Tink.
Stark Tink is a podcast about the challenges and opportunities
of Bega Mentora in the workforce.
As we approach PESA, we are bringing you a mega collection
of De Veritura from Benitura in the workforce across the world.
You will hear from Reviakov, Danischewski, Rev Jonathan Levy,
Rev Max Berger, Zach Lennick, Mark Tobin, and Doctor Morty
Goldenberg. And as we prepared to release
this week's episode, we snuck in one more Advertora with my good
friend Joel von Messel. At the end you will hear some
ideas of mine, which I shared on the Greatest PowerShot Podcast
hosted by Raymond Ashkenazi, a Stark Tank listener, and Emma
Diane. This extra long episode would
not be possible without the extra editing help from Slomo
Price. So thank you, Slomo, wishing you
and your families, Ahad Kashir, Vasamya Rabi, Yakov Donatowski,
welcome to starting and thank you for joining us today.
Thanks for having me. So before we talk to her
together, maybe just a little quick introduction about
yourself, your background, connecting Torah and the world
of mental health before we jump into the meat of the
conversation. Sure.
So I am. I live in Chicago.
I'm a therapist as well as I try to teach Torah and write and all
sorts of things of that sort. And for me, Torah has always
been something that very naturally connected to the inner
life and inner world of myself and, and, and in thinking that
other people as well. And then I also, as I in my
professional life developed more in terms of working as a
therapist. So certainly that kind of
connection and and building that bridge kind of came more more
alive and in a more pronounced way.
Amazing and you've written a bunch of books.
We'll talk about them at the end of this conversation.
We'll link them in the show notes, especially your new how
God that was just came out. So as we're approaching Pesach,
what's on your mind? What you think is the most
important messages that especially people who are trying
to live a life of, you know, working, learning, family and
all that should be taking with us?
What's, what's sort of what's the idea that you want to share
with us today? Sure.
So if we're thinking about people Vinay Toran in the
workforce, something that I I think about is connecting it to
Pesach. What I'll mention is that
there's a line we say in Ashrae, of course, from Tehillim Dora
lidori shabak Masaha generation to generation will praise your,
your handiwork Hashem. There's a line in the Haggadah
that we say, behold Dora vador Hayev Adam lero sisatzmu kilu
yatsumi Mitzrayim that in each and every generation a person's
person should see themselves as if they're leaving Mitzrayim.
And I noticed the similarity of of the phrase Dor lidor, Dor
vador in those two phrases. But on the other hand, there's a
difference Dor lidor with alamid and Dor vador with above.
And what I think the difference is, is that the lamid indicates
kind of a transitioning, a passing on from one generation
to the next. There's a continuity.
I think about it like a relay race, like you're holding the
baton and you run to the next person, you hand it over.
That's Dor lidor Dor vador. Behold, Dor vador in my and mine
indicates the opposite. There's a differentiation.
There's a splitting each and every generation, particularly
individually. So why in one way it's when one
place it's one way and one place it's the other.
I think perhaps because when it comes to you Shabbat Masaka, to
talking about a college baraku, to praising Hashem that's passed
from one generation to the next, that's door lador.
When it comes to Lyro says at smoke, you will yatzumi
mitzrayim seeing yourself and experiencing it's Yas mitzhayim
that needs to be individualized for each generation because no
previous generation has the same circumstance, the same world,
the same experience of life that we do in our current moment.
And so that by definition needs to be the whole door vador, not
door lidor. I share that in this context
more as a framing of that in Yiddish kite, I think there's
two aspects, as the Baal Shemtov said, there's Elokaenu and
there's Elokaev Husseinu, as we say in Schwann Astray, there is
the world of what's passed down to us.
And then there's the world of what we create.
There's the God of our forefathers and there's the God
that's personally ours. And I think that a, a balanced,
rounded, wholesome Yiddish kite contains both.
And I bring that out in this context of Stark Tank.
Love the name, by the way, because, because I think about
people as they grow in life, in age and in the amount of things
that we juggle. I think for most of us, there
are exceptions. But for most of us, when we were
in yeshiva and we had three stars a day or whatever it was,
or even if we had more time later when we started working,
there was a lot of what I would call the Dora lidor learning a
lot of time and space and capacity to learn in that kind
of, let's call it more classical model, right?
Having an assafter that I'm learning through, or sigyas that
I'm learning through, or an era of halacha that I'm learning
through and doing it in that kind of classical way.
That's the Dor lador. I think as we get older and life
circumstance become more complex and often times we become spread
more thin, we certainly need to still hold on to the Dor lador.
I'm not advocating for getting rid of that, but I think there's
another component of learning Torah that becomes very relevant
and very important for some people.
I think it becomes actually essential, and that's the Dor
vador that a person needs to find their own own experience of
what Torah says and speaks and means to them in a way that's
out-of-the-box for everyone That's different.
So I don't want to speak to it too, too much, but something
that's not necessarily the classical base medrish of
sitting with my, my Gemara and looking in the back at the rush
and then looking all finding their own bond and the Rashba
and and and and and and and. Fine, you know, working through
the reply and the whole thing. Because I don't necessarily have
3 1/2 hours today and tomorrow and the next day and the next
day, but I might have 5 minutes here, I might have two minutes
here or 30 seconds there. And what happens if I open up a
pastor or a Mishnah and without all the Rishonim?
And I asked myself what this means to me, what it's speaking
to me, what it's saying, what I, what I feel when I open this up.
Like Your Salvation once said that too many people forget to
ask themselves when they're learning Torah, when they're
reading something and home specifically, he said this about
what mood does it put me in? Not what do I think and how do I
analyze this, but what mood does it put me in?
That I think is the Behold door vador, because I think there's a
new aspect of Torah that's emerging specifically in our
generation, which is a Torah of what what comes up inside of me
when I encounter, when I put myself in the presence of Torah.
Not to replace the Dora Ladora, God forbid, but as an extra,
another mahalo that I think everyone needs, but especially
those whose lives become spread more thin, more complex, more
complicated, and are still trying to hold on tight to
Torah. This is another way of holding
on to Torah. So I really like that.
I'm curious, do you remember sort of the origin of that idea
or where you came up with that? The reason why I'm asking is
because it's like one of the tensions that we talk about on
this podcast, you know, our Bam and yeshiva, our Bam and
yeshiva. And they have never necessarily
had to some of them whatever I'm journalizing a little bit, but
but you know, they live in a certain world and then we're
going to live in a world that they don't necessarily live in
with their whole Kishka's. So is this something that you
did get Yeshiva or you figured out on your own through your own
experiences? Yeah, it's a great question.
So I'll give some credit for a second to a couple of people.
One of them would be Rivari Waxman in Shalavan, who was one
of the first real Rabaim I had. And I remember once even I, I
don't think we talked about this explicitly necessarily, but I
think he planted certain seeds that later really got watered
and and developed and became and and grew more above the surface.
So I can remember even like looking back one time and I
don't think I registered this in the way that I'm talking about
it now, but This is why I say it was like he planted a seed.
I remember once we had a like a comes it's, or whatever it was
now we call it, if I bring in, you know, whatever, whatever it
was. And, and I remember afterwards,
he and I went off to the base of Madrich and he's like Yaakov,
come, let's go learn. We went up to the base of
Madrich and he opened the mission.
We just opened the mishnias and he read the mission and he just
sat there. He's like, let's just learn a
Mishnah. And we just learned the Mishnah
And he was like, wow, like to learn a Mishnah and like, what's
the mission of saying not what's it saying?
Analyzing it from the again, classical base measures wave.
I was like, just what's the mission of saying?
What do you feel when you learn this mission of?
And it was more at that time this just like, whoa,
interesting, out-of-the-box, weird experience, but I think it
planted a seed I I encountered in my life personally in the
therapy world for sure as well. And also in a number of Torah
sources, I would say many maybe most pronounced among them the
villenegon or the gras in beer and Michel and elsewhere as well
as in its seven, a few places in Hammock Davar, as well as the
Torah of, of cook and also in the Torah of of of Hasidos.
This comes up a lot the belief and the role of Ruach ha kodesh
in learning Torah. And I know this may might sound
crazy to some people, but the truth is if you learn the sugya
in Baba Basra Adafi Baseman Bayes, if you learn through the
Yushantha there and bond there, it's about you'll see there that
Nivu is not over Nivua transferred into a place of Rafa
Kodesh. And the way I understand that is
that there's a certain intuition that a person can experience
where they can actually access something, that Tora is speaking
to them from a place of intuition.
And I, I became very passionate about this, about the
importance, what I would say the lost art of intuition.
It's very important therapeutically, it's very
important life wise. And I think it's very important
in Tora as well that there's a, there's a, there's a real source
of knowledge that comes from a place of more of a free
association, more of a sitting with something, not trying to
analyze it, just sitting with it and seeing what emerges, seeing
what emerges inside of us as we're in that, the presence of
that text, the presence of those words, what do I feel?
What do I notice? What, what comes to mind for me.
And I would say just to mention one other person who really
brought this out, like in the most strong way for me is your
dove zinger and Arita Shahl. He has a mahalo where he really
develops the role of intuition and listening to what's
happening inside yourself in a way that I think is is really,
very, very powerful and really, really influenced me a lot.
I'll give just as another example to this, not necessarily
in the context of Torah, but in the context of life.
So you know the the Gemara says that the Hassidim re shown him
would be show a Shah Akhas podem to Fila.
They would sit for an hour before domining and also shown
Shah Akhrat Fila after domining. And so the part the part before
domining is the more well known everyone talks about.
You know that person has to be be Isha Hadas.
You have to settle your mind to be able to have cabana.
Great. So they did that for an hour.
You know, how about you know, to think of doing that?
But OK, they did that for an hour.
We understand theoretically what they were doing, but what were
they doing after domining? Showing Shaka Shaka, what were
they doing? They're not settling their mind
to be able to Dobbin. They just finished dobbining.
So if Dove suggested that what they were doing is they were
receiving the answer to their tefila, they were sitting and
hearing Hashem speak back to them.
They just spoke to Hashem and now He's going to answer me.
Answer me doesn't mean that He's going to give me the thing I
dove in for. You know, give us all the things
we dove in for. But that's not what it means
that He answered. What it means He answers me is
that He talks to me. He tells me things.
And if we stop and listen, Hashem speaks to us.
I believe Hashem speaks to every single one of us.
Where does He speak to all of us from within ourselves?
A person can hear how I'm talking to them.
So I started trying to do this after daubening.
I don't sit Shahas. I don't, I don't, I don't do
that. Maybe one day.
But what I do do is I used to as I'm wrapping my feeling, I used
to take out my phone and start catching up on everything
already. Now when I'm wrapping my
feeling, I don't I try, I try not to take out my phone and I
just wrap my feeling and ask myself, what does this show I'm
telling me for today? What does this show want for me
today? And I, I get a simple message,
says it takes a minute, one line and I get a message and I don't
know if I sound crazy, but I really believe it.
I really, really believe it. Bemuna Shlema, I believe that
Hashem is talking to me in that moment.
And sometimes he tells me, Yaakov, be calm today.
Sometimes he tells me, Yaakov, be positive today.
Sometimes he says, Yaakov, go learn some halacha as he says,
Yaakov, you know, go call this person and reconnect and make
Shalom whatever it might be. But I but I think that that we
can hear Hashem speak to us through our intuition and
through Torah. Amazing.
So if anyone's watching on video, they'll see that Yaakov
is in Brooklyn away from his home homecourt advantage in in
Chicago. And I don't know if the audio
editing will cut out or not. We got some some Brooklyn
honking there, which for me is amazing because it really is the
soundtrack of my youth growing up in Brooklyn, the, the, the
distinct honks of, of Brooklyn. So I appreciate that a lot.
So you're you're there not because you necessarily want to
be there or whatever or not because you enjoy the trip to
Brooklyn on its own terms, but because you just can't with a
Haggadah. So they tell us a little, just
briefly, about the Hagada and where our listeners can find.
Yeah, thank you. Yeah, and I apologize for the
beeping that one those couple of beeps were very special.
I don't know if I've ever heard such a such aggression and and
length extension of the airtime on that on that beep was it was
impressive. So hopefully the audio will it
will work here. But so I'll tell you just as you
know, there's so many things to say about the Haggadah bar
Hashem that just came out. But but maybe I'll continue this
theme of what I'm talking about just to continue bringing this
idea home, because I really I really feel passionately that
it's important for everyone, but especially for a work working
balabas and so on. Stark Tank.
I'm happy for the opportunity to emphasize this.
I wrote this Haggadah in a very different way than my other.
You know, I wrote I wrote a book attached and I have a couple of
other swarm that are in the works.
They take years. The swarm take years and they're
a process of looking up a lot of things, footnoting, backing
things up, finding the sources, working through things, adding,
taking out the whole a this Haggada.
I don't even want to say I wrote it.
This had got that happened in like 2 months and what happened
was that there was a whole story.
I'm not going to go into the details right now, but I had an
opportunity where I had a chunk of time in the day, very kind of
early when nothing else was going on, and I just kind of sat
with the Haggadah. I opened up the text of Haggada
and I just looked at the Haggada one, one line at a time. 1 Simon
about that at a time. I just sat with it.
I said what? What do I?
Notice what's coming up? What am I experiencing?
And I just typed and that was it.
Sometimes I felt naturally aligned with what was in the
Haggadah in front of me. And it was like, it was magical.
There were fireworks, like ideas just flowed.
Sometimes I felt totally just disconnected from the Haggadah.
Like there's nothing here. It doesn't speak to me.
What I'm experiencing right now in my life has nothing to do
with this. And I don't really know what it
means. And OK, whatever it's, I know
the line and we've all heard it 100 times.
But right. And then sometimes I actually
felt at odds with what the Haggadah was saying, you know,
like lean and feel free. But I'm actually feeling very
unfree right now in a certain life circumstance or Bahui feel
sad. I'm, I'm not feeling more at
all. I'm actually feeling
ecstatically happy about something just happened.
And I would sit with that and allow my feelings and the
objective message of the Haggadah to speak to each other,
to have conversation. And what emerged was something
that blew my mind like this haggadah that just came out like
it, it blows my mind. Like I don't even feel like I
wrote it. It just kind of happened.
And I think that's the Torah of the Torah of, of, of what can
happen from a person tuning into their, to the natural flow of
the Ruach ha kodesh that I think every one of us actually has the
capacity for. So this Haggadah is really a
deeper experiential haggadah. It's not a collection of, of, of
votes or Dere Torre or stories. You know, I was speaking
somewhere recently and there was a lady who came to buy the
Haggada and she came up to me very excited with that, that she
said, I'm so excited to, to bring this home to get this for
my husband. He loves having new DeVry tire
at the seder every year. And I wanted to say to her, you
know, here's your money back and and your husband's not going to
like my Haggada. It's not a collection of DeVry
Torah. It's really about accessing A
deeper inward, inward experience of the Seder.
I'm just going to end the baby strange question, but but I, I,
I can't help myself at this point.
I'll just say it, you know, very bluntly, please, according to
the the mahat that you're saying, wouldn't it be better
for everyone to instead of going to the link in the channel story
Haggada to. Go get their own.
Haggada write their own Haggada because if the if evidence here
is about what each and every person should finally in
themselves to the Haggada. Do you want to sort of give
still a pitch for, even though people should really be doing
that, why they should steal what they're going to find in that
gather that they can't get on their own?
I love that question so much and and I completely agree.
And I actually wrote about that in the introduction that my goal
in writing, the in, in, in, well, again, I didn't have a
goal in writing and it just happened.
But my goal in publishing the Haggadah was not that people
take the content of my Haggadah, It's that people learn from the
form of the Haggadah. There are no sources in the
Haggadah. There are no footnotes in the
Haggadah. Intentionally, I didn't want
that to get in the way of the experiential Torah that's
available to each person. And what I was trying to do in
in publishing this agata is to give people a form to learn
from. And if you don't like, if you do
or don't like the content of the Haggadah is not an indication
for me of the Haggadah being successful.
What's an indication of the Haggadah being successful is if
you start to do what I did, not that you have the conclusion I
had, you might have a completely different Torah.
But if you learn from what I was trying to do, which I think is
something that is really the Torah of this generation, again,
not in place of Dor Lador, but in addition to Dor Lador, the
behold or vado, the Torah of our generation, I believe is this
Torah that emerges from the inside.
And again, like I keep emphasizing, I think that's true
for everyone, and especially for those of us maybe who spent a
good amount of years building the bedrock, the foundation of
Dora Lidor. Because, by the way, the level
of what can happen for you in your intuitive Torah.
The level of. Depth and richness that can come
up is in the behold door Vador is influenced from the Dor
lador. The more Torah that a person has
swimming inside of them, whether they remember it or not, but the
more Torah knowledge that swims and lives inside of you, the
more capacity you have for your intuitive Torah to be deep and
and and meaningful and profound and well-rounded and developed
etcetera. So for those of us who have
spent a lot of years in the darla door learning and now have
more limited time and challenge in doing that, we should still
make time to do it, but we should also engage this new
opportunity of of intuitive Torah.
OK, beautiful. Rabbi Yakov Donshevsky, thank
you for joining us. And we'll include that
information out of the Gaza in the show below.
And I look forward to staying in touch.
Thank you. So.
Much for having me. We are joined now by Jonathan
Levy. Jonathan, welcome to Stark Tank.
Thank you for coming today. Thank.
You, Yakov, appreciate it. So before we get into the Ray
Torah, maybe just a little quick background about yourself, some
of the work that you're doing, the Torah you're teaching, the
real estate that you're involved in before we jump in.
Sure, sure. Sure.
My name is Jonathan Levy. I I split my time.
As Yaakov was saying, I teach a lot of Torah.
Thank God I have the hoot of teaching a lot of Torah.
That would be kind of morning activity.
My main focus is historically has been, you know, my, my crowd
that I'm teaching is not. It is more of like a standard,
you know, working crowd. So a lot of it, it started off
as humash, humash, hafsara, maybe like some pirkha both.
And then it kind of like it became a real thing.
It evolved into Navi. So we did the Naveen Rishonim
and then it started, it became Ketuvim.
So now we're, I don't know, like 70% through the Tanakh, just I'm
like 70% through teaching the Tanakh.
Which is great. I'm currently teaching the book
of Yaskel and that would be like one part of my life.
I'm an assistant rabbi in a, in a bit Knesset in Great Neck, NY
called Shadow Hamim. And I'm the Hazan there as well.
So I'm the Hazan assistant rabbi.
And that's, that would be like filling in and speaking and
doing some teaching on the weekends.
And then as it pertains to my work, I own a company called RJL
Capital Advisors. The company focuses on sourcing
joint venture equity for commercial real estate operators
in the United States. And Bakasham, it's a good
business. It's a, it's an active business
that takes up my weekdays, the vast majority of my weekdays.
And then Bakasham, I married and I have 3 kids, so it's a full
life. I think that the theme of the
podcast is people that study Torah and focus on Torah and
balance that with working. And I'll say it's actually
there's a three legged stool here because it's working.
And then, you know, family also, which everybody should be so far
to have. So it's a very, very busy
lifestyle, but worthwhile. You know, it's great to be able
to meaningful things and or an upon us and and so on.
And give you mentioned your your wonderful family.
So a Masalto on your recent edition, which is really less
than a month old to masalto on that.
So may share with us some Torah from great necks and Torah from
the humash, the Tanaka saying also you want to share with us
as we approach Haga Pesa. Sure, sure.
So, so I'll, I'll tell you my, my main, my main thing when it
comes to Torah, I'll tell you like a personal preference I
have what I'm learning the humash or when I'm studying a
text of Tanakh. I very.
Much like the the non perush Tanakhs in which you could see
the text. Because what happens is I use
miko, get the load daily, right? My computer from 10:00 AM to
11:00 AM is study of how much. The problem is half the time
there are no sukim on the page. In general, my whole mindset
with Torah is that I feel like we often, very often are
studying the Leafs or leaves on trees and are missing some very,
very big picture items, which you need to, you can only see if
you take a step back and think of things holistically.
So whenever I think of something like Davar Torah about Pesach,
that that really speaks to me. It won't be like a specific
vort. I'll tell you what really speaks
to me about about Pesach is is Yaakov.
What would you say? How would you characterize in in
one sentence what Yitsyat Misraim was?
I thought. I'm the host of this podcast,
but I thought I'll say Misha Abdullah Gula.
I would say correct or in English terms would be like a
slave revolt, right? I don't think we as Amisaral
appreciate how big of a deal a building a religion around a
slave revolt actually is, first of all.
A little bit. Of a hidush here, why were the
midstream and this is a personal Hidushaman, you could take a
little bit. Why were the midstream so eager
to give Binet Israel their takshi team and whenever
whatever when Binet straw were leaving Egypt?
So my theory is that we know from some of Yousef Misraim was
a bit of a dem. The like a political structure
of Misraim was that parole was at the top with his Hartum meme,
let's say call it his his, you know, people that helped him
preserve power. Pretty much everybody in Egypt
was a slave. So when one type of slave.
I think there every Sachs says that the pyramid was not just a
a physical structure, but also a reflection of the society.
Beautiful. I never.
Heard that, I never heard that, but yes, I definitely and and
therefore when I'm Israel essentially said the slaves have
value too. All of the other midstream were
also slaves were like, wow, this is a novel.
This is a novel thing that slaves could actually, you know,
in a society, it's hot, very, very highly structured and
hierarchical to say that the people on the bottom are the
beloved of God. And it's not might that makes
you right, but it's well, the what actually makes you right is
left to be seen because that that comes that's at Mamaha
Sinai, right. That's when you got the Torah.
But the first thing that I think we we have to appreciate about
Pesach is that we introduced as Amisrel this concept to the
world that the powerful are not right now if we take it for
granted, because all of us are thinking in Western terms, which
was completely rooted in biblical Yahaduta ideology.
So we take all these things for granted and then we, we forget
how big of a hidush they were at the time.
So I think Rabbi Sachs has a fascinating article where he, I
don't remember it in detail, but he, he, he analyzes 1 of Freud's
books. You may know if you read or by
Sachs, he 1 of Freud had a book about right?
Or Freud had a book about, I think it was about Moshe Rabenu,
where he claimed that the whole story that's written in the, in
the Torah is probably a forgery. And the actual story is that
Moses came from Paroz lineage and the reason corn throw away
sacks. The reason Freud says that is
because for a a people at the time of you see what means time
to think that the goel would come from lowly slave stock and
instead of being of priestly lineage.
What's such a Hridouche that Freud says it's impossible that
the Jews thought of that it must be that this is actually not the
real story of am Israel and that am Israel is really is really
like every other myth or the story of has to match every
other myth in which, for example, I got I don't know it's
either, but what's that the story of Achilles.
The whole idea is that he's actually from royal lineage,
like all the whole, the whole theory behind the way they
thought of society is that lineage matters and your
bloodline is what matters and forget and power is good.
And AMI cell came and turned all of that on its head.
And I think that's like the most fundamental message.
That's why when they're revolutionary societies, AKA
like the United States, when they're building a revolution,
what where do they take their inspiration from?
It's like you look at the founding fathers.
They all took their inspire then and their inspiration that they
take is very, very, very focused on the Old Testament.
Many of the founding fathers weren't very much into
Christianity at all, but they were very inspired by the
biblical stories and by Judaism. So again, I know it's a little
bit long winded, but I would say that's like the the major thing
that speaks to me from a a high level about Yitzeim and the
story of Pesach and how we should be thinking about it
philosophically. And I'll tell you one more
thing. I think it's the foundation of
anti-Semitism as well. There is a probably the best
book I ever read on anti-Semitism is a book called
Who Is Afraid of the Big Bad Jew?
I think it's. A Jew that lives in arts Israel
who wrote the book? I mean, you could look at it.
I forgot the name of the rabbi who wrote it.
And he goes through the writings of Hitler in detail.
And you think that Hitler was like a crazed maniac, but he was
actually very philosophically astute.
And then he's like, I look around and I, I don't think
anybody realize anybody realizes what the Jews did.
They turned the moral story on its head.
They said that the person who is downtrodden is to be respected.
That's not the way of the world. The natural way of the world is
that if you look in the jungle, the strongest animal wins.
So why all of a sudden, when it comes to to human beings, should
we flip it on its head and say the downtrodden should be cared
for or the downtrodden cared for in the jungle?
So that Hitler's whole claim was that the Jewish people by
changing this, this thing and making it that your power and
your might doesn't make you any better, but your goodness and
your commitment to God and the Torah makes you better.
He claims that that was a Hitler's claim was that that was
a corruption of the natural world order that needed to be
fixed. And I think one of the reasons
anti Semites aren't necessarily consciously aware of what
they're doing. But I think if a person is in a
mentality of anti-Semitism, it's often because they know that the
Torah and the Jewish values get in the way of something that
they want. And in most cases that's power
because the Torah doesn't respect power.
Amisa were the first people that introduced the concept of
parole, the despot being an evil man that deserves to be punished
and how only God has power. And that means all humans are
essentially 0 and equal before God.
So. I think I.
Think Pesach is is fundamental in that it teaches us these very
found these foundational lessons about philosophy.
And I think it's also the story of how anti-Semitism comes about
because our message is the worst message for someone who wants to
Lord over others and play the political game and dominate and
establish a new world order in their image.
And I think that's why Israel gets a lot of Flack.
I don't think Israel is hated around the world because we
aren't moral enough. I think it's because the
tendency of mankind is to not be moral and they're intimidated by
how moral Amisala actually is. So those are some some thoughts
on Tessa. And yeah, again, those are the
things that speak to me. So that's.
That's really beautiful. Maybe just to follow up on one
or two things. So first of all, I I appreciate
the finish about the the gold and silver.
I I've always been fascinated by that.
So yeah, that takes such a central role.
One of the only details of the whole story that makes it into
the briefing I'm carrying back in Parshad that is seems to be
such a core part of the story. I always I've been fascinated by
that and and I appreciate that idea.
I like that a lot. And I also, you know, it was
interesting how you took the idea of the slaver revolt story
and made it applicable to today through the idea of
anti-Semitism, which is unfortunately something that we
need to be thinking about and talking about is I guess another
modern application. Maybe also like a a big picture
idea here, which is that but we live in the world which is so
blessed with so much wealth and so many good values around us,
especially as you said, compared to sort of previous generations.
Do you think this is like broader voda, broader mentality
that we need to all be really focusing on, which is, you know,
yes, there are things that still need to be accomplished, but we
also need so to be so, you know, grateful for so many things that
we have today. It's a broader thing which you,
as you pointed out, you know, some of these things that we
just assume are so pasutas the economic stability that we have,
these physical safety that we have, the values that you
indicated that which are really based on our values are are
really so amazing. Is that a broader thing that you
see people or that you suggest or try to try to inculcate that
people focus on more? Yeah, in fact, I think here's
what I really think if Amisrel were to realize how many of the
beautiful things that we have in the modern Western world are
attributable directly to the Torah and can see the
philosophical link behind the Torah idea and human
flourishing. I think many.
More people would love the Torah in a purely rational way.
Meaning. Meaning, I think one of the I
think we take for granted so much.
The Torah. Promise that you want to hear an
interesting What's the difference between and Sorry I
keep asking you questions. I know it's not my role, but I
wasn't a 13. The hafta part of the Kreyachema
and the Hayam Shamoa. In Vayam, Shamoa includes a lot
of the physical right and. Well, includes a lot of like
actual, right? So do you know what the
difference is? The other difference is that
vyapti is set in the singular and vyam shamo is set in the
plural. Now the reason that's the case
is because in in my opinion, and I've heard this said by other
Rabbani, the vyapti is set in the singular and every
individual, their life is not. There's no direct link between
how they, how much they keep and the brahot that they're going to
see in their life. You know, you have people that
are big sadikim and they have usurim and difficulty throughout
their entire life, right? But when it comes on a societal
level, if a society on the whole culturally follows the Torah,
then there is 100% guarantee that that society will see
generalized baraka. Doesn't mean that no individual
will get cancer in that society, but doesn't mean that in that
society there will be general baraka in which they'll be
general abundance because they all kept the Torah.
Now, you could see that as like a mystical thing or you could
see that as a direct connection between once you inculcate the
vow, Let's say you take the last five of the Certa debro, right,
And you put them as mainstays in the society, meaning you have
nobody's murdering, nobody's stealing nobody's, you know,
there's general sexual propriety, you have honest court
systems and people aren't jealous for one another.
That I don't know of itself is going to create a society that's
very good, right? And I think one of the things
that that people miss is that they just don't understand the
philosophical wisdom of the Torah enough because they're
already in the system and they're already in the system
that the Torah created. So they don't realize that if
the Torah wasn't there to create that system for for them, they
wouldn't have seen any of the baraka.
But if someone does become aware of that, then all of a sudden
you develop a profound love and amazement at the Torah for being
so wise. And I think that's something AMI
could use, especially, frankly, in Eretz Israel, in which like
there's a whole societal move, like the whole purpose, I would
say of the Jewish state is to create a society and based on
the values of the Torah. Well, the more you cling to
those values, the more bracha you will see.
And if people could just draw that philosophical connection
and see how it's actually directly correlates, then I
think there's develops a lot bigger of a, of an appreciation
for the Torah in general. Amazing.
Jonathan, I really enjoy learning from your interesting
Hidushima, your interesting approach, which is not the
common sort of ideas that I used to learning from.
So if any of our listeners want to learn more from you and your
Shiri and where can they find them?
OK, so Apple Podcasts and Spotify, you could type in my
name, Jonathan Levy on either or any podcast channel.
I think it's. I use this Liv.
I right, Liv? I it's unique spelling, it's the
everything is spelled as Sparadi.
So it's like the parasha podcast, right?
PARASHA and so that would be the parasha one that I did a few
years ago that we've gone through the entire whole match.
I think twice on the podcast, but I re upload because people
like to keep up with it weekly. Again, it's all in this mold of
more like philosophical thinking.
I would say one of my a big influence of mine is Rabbi
Jonathan Sacks huge influence of mine, but like very much a a
student of the peshat of the text.
So it's not heavy on Mifarshim, but it's heavy on good
discussion. The Navi podcast, that would be
the second one. That's the one in which we're
currently in the middle of Sefia scale.
And then again, all of like the actual names of the books are
going to be written in Svara D Yeah, scale is a hey, each
instead of a whatever. And then the Katuvin podcast is
a work in progress. I do have a podcast called the
Tahilim podcast that we went through all 150 chapters of
Tahilim and I did a Swara D Kriya of those chapters.
So I'm very precise with Dick Duke.
So if you want to know how to read according to Swaradi, I
mean, according to all pronunciation, but Sparadi tunes
the helium, then that would be a good podcast you could check out
as well. And yeah, that's, that's it.
That's my work. OK.
Amazing, Jonathan, thank you so much.
I look forward to staying in touch.
I really. Appreciate, Yakov.
Thank you so much. Bye, bye.
Stop joining us now. Is Max Berger.
Max, welcome to Stark Tank. Thank you for coming.
It's. A pleasure to be here.
I'm, I'm humbled to be here. A few weeks ago I saw you had
Yessi Landis on and he said Katonte Mikola Kasadin, because
of all the great rabonim you've had here on this show.
And I'm thinking he's a founder of a Unicorn, so I'm even more
Katonte. So it's great to be here and I'm
happy to be here. Yeah.
So before we jump into talking towards a little quick
background yourself, you are some people call you a startup
rabbi. So how'd you get that title and
where did that lead you to I. Guess I gave it to myself at my
at my previous job I I coined the term Chief Rabbi of my of my
office. I worked at Next Gear Ventures
in the early stage precede seed venture capital firm in Tel
Aviv. It started kind of organically
my background up until that when I grew up in New Rochelle, NY.
A beautiful, lovely community. Highly recommend to everyone.
I went to SAR Academy and then SAR high school.
I spent two years in Ishibadakoto.
I spent a year teaching in TVA the the Yeshiva of Ytva Hobart
to Tommy Deem. And.
Then went to Tel Aviv University, did a degree there,
and then started working in venture capital.
I think one of the threads that kind of went from yeshiva
through TVA, through Tel Aviv University and into my work was
a desire to teach and to share ideas that were meaningful to
me. Now, the language that I was
able to express those ideas were in Torah very naturally.
So that Torah contains very, very deep truths about the world
and about our lives, and that became the language I learned
how to express it in. So when I was in yeshiva in
Shanabet, I gave a Shanabet kabura that was really
meaningful for me. And when I went to TVAI was able
to expand that kabura into something much bigger.
I thought there was a a time when maybe I would I was
thinking about pursuing Chinook more formally as a Rebbe
realized that wasn't exactly for me.
Then I went to Tel Aviv University.
I was studying philosophy and Jewish studies.
Like, OK, maybe I'll start teaching here, not as a Rebbe,
but as a professor. So maybe trading the I guess in
both, both professions professions, you're probably
wearing a cardigan. So that's what that's the the
Satoshi between them. And when I went to work in
venture capital, it was it was a different type of environment
altogether. First of all, it was the first
time I think being visibly religious was something I
actually noticed. I didn't really think about it
growing up much in anywhere up until that point.
But I remember in my interview going into the kitchen and
making myself a coffee and thinking, am I able to use the
spoons here? I mean, it was a secular
environment. To my knowledge, there wasn't
anyone else who was religious there.
And I started. To think, wait a minute, I'm in
Tel Aviv, I'm in Israel. I'm in supposedly in a, in a, in
a Jewish state. What would this, what was, is
this going to look like for me as a Jew?
And on my first day, I remember introducing myself to everyone
and everyone's like, oh, you must live in Jerusalem.
I'm like, because I'm wearing Ekipa.
It was, it was kind of jarring and nobody meant any malice in
that comment, but I realized that wearing Ekipa in Israel,
is, is, is is pregnant with a lot of meaning.
I mean, it has a political value.
It has an identity value. And I don't know, it started to
be something I was thinking about in a more intentional way
and, and maybe as a joke or maybe in a serious way, but not
in any no one expected this moment to become something
bigger than what it was. We were at an event, maybe it
was a a birthday happy hour at the office and someone said Max
share a share a share something from the parsha.
I think it was mostly a joke. But again, this was a language I
had learned how to express myself in.
And I shared an idea about leadership and about what the I
don't remember the exact board, but I remember having to do with
Moshe. I remember being about Vayamina
Bashemu Moshavdo and thinking about the people believing in
this leader. And, and I connected something
about what the Jewish people were going through in that
week's parsha into what was going in on in our office at the
time. And people were really moved by
it. For me, it was just devoid.
It was cute. But I think for people who have
not experienced that kind of thing before, it was, it was, it
was pretty meaningful. And then it became sort of the
thing that when Pesach came around, I gave a board on
Pesach. And when she was came around, I
gave a board on she was. And each time I was weaving in
these ideas from the Torah into ideas from our lives.
And eventually then I, I coined the term chief rabbi of the
office and, and it became something that stuck with me.
OK, so cool. So let's.
Tell us a little bit about Pesach.
What's on your mind as we approach this holiday, given all
the sort of ways of thinking that you've developed as you
described? Sure.
I mean PESA. Is a, is a, Is a really good
holiday on this regard, particularly when we we talk
about, when we think about matzo and and Hummet.
And I think the reason why those are interesting is because they
map really interestingly onto identity.
What do I mean by that? I think in the workplace in
general, and I was alluding to this earlier, one of the most
difficult things for people when they enter into a workplace is
where to bring their particular identities.
I mean, work is something that has a lot of performativity in
it. You want to be a good employee,
you want to make money, you know, with her.
If you make money that has to do with yourself worth it has to do
with your status. It also has to do with simply
can I provide for myself and for my family.
So you so you want to perform well and there's a sort of
cultural assimilation that happens as you as you get deeper
into it. I mean, I think there's a moment
when everyone realizes they got swallowed up in it.
If you're in the working world, it's the first time you send an
e-mail and you sign it. Best.
I don't think anyone does that in real life.
Nobody signs a conversation. Nobody says, hey, is is good
having lunch with you. Best Max you, you say goodbye,
you say thanks, you say whatever.
But this is something that's you.
You learn how to perform like the way your workplace expects
you to. And I think where this gets
difficult is the more you learn how to perform it in the way
that's kind of expected in that environment, and the farther
away you get from yourself, there becomes this dissonance
that leads to unfulfillment because you have this authentic
self, you deeply that's kind of buried up somewhere there and
you have this performative self you bring to the workplace.
And when you spend your entire day like that, it becomes, it
becomes pretty draining and unfulfilling.
And there's a lot of risk of bringing that authentic self
into the workplace because A, there's rejection in the way
that being authentic anywhere is rejection.
But B, you know, if you lose your livelihood, you're kind of
screwed if if you attach your worth to what job you have.
So being authentic is a real risky endeavour.
On the other hand, being authentic isn't necessarily
always good. I mean, I'm a performance isn't
inherently bad. It's more of like a technique.
I'm aware of the fact that I'm performing right now to you.
I know that if I don't say anything, interestingly enough,
you probably won't post this. This is literally performative.
I need to sound good enough for you to post this, and I know
that there are probably people more learned than I am that are
going to listen to this, and I know I need to perform for them.
That when I say something about matzo and hummates that I
alluded to, it needs to track with the mokoros properly that I
don't sound like it. I'm arts and I know that there
are going to be people that I'll probably repost this on my
LinkedIn, probably will. So I know that potential future
employers of mine might see this.
So there is an element to which it's important.
But what happens is when performativity becomes it's an
end in and of itself, when it becomes your identity of I'm
good or I'm bad because I did well here and there.
So it becomes that's when it becomes unfulfilling.
Where it comes to the Matzo's, I think the Gemara asks a question
by the Gemara Brachos on Yudziano Metallif asks a
question I think is my exact question I'm asking here, which
is. I want.
To be authentic, I know I'm happiest when I'm connected to
myself. I know I'm I'm happiest when I'm
doing the right thing, whatever that is.
Why don't I do it? Why don't I do it?
So the question that Kumar asks is, is Golubiadua.
It's known that our ratzone is to do your ratzone cutter
sparkle. So Mama Aki, what's what's
preventing us? And, and I'll say the answer is
backwards there. It gives 2 answers.
One of them is she would mafias. Something outside.
Your your control if it's a boss.
So it's a boss ultimately, if you're working, doing something
boring that's not so fulfilling to you, ultimately you have to
do that. You need to, there's no element
to which you have to do that. On the one hand, the second
answer, which connects to Paysaf is it says the orb to ISA.
It's the, it's the yeast in the dough.
And I want to address those two separately.
So the first one is what do you do when you don't really have a
choice but to perform? We don't really have a choice
but to hit your, your monthly quotas.
You don't have a choice but to speak exactly the way you're
expected to speak and you feel disconnected.
So one of the ideas here is that it's OK sometimes to perform as
long as you know that you're perform.
I remember when I came back from yeshiva, I was during COVID, I
was very, I was in that classic stage when you get very harif
and you get very judgmental of everyone.
I was in Hack Hotel, which is a pretty sione yeshiva, and I had
this tension between wanting to be authentic, wanting to tell my
parents you have to make aliyah, and also being the hobby them
also doing Cuba. Dave and I said to my rabbi at
the time, I said, how do I square that?
How do I square the fact that me being authentically myself might
offend them and the fact that there's a mitzvah to respect
them? And I also know that they don't
really want me to give up on the authentic part of me.
They actually expect in our relationship for me to be
authentic. So how do I put that all
together? How do I be authentic and
perform kind of at the same time here?
And he said to me, there's something called winter.
And I said, Robbie, I have no idea what that means.
How is that an answer? And he said, is a tree not
authentically being a tree during the winter just because
it's not expressing all of its fruits, it's not inauthentic as
a tree. It just understands that in that
particular time and environment, being in the summer version of a
tree is unhealthy for the tree. So I think that's that's kind of
1 Mahalo, if that's actually helpful here.
It's OK to accept that there are times of winter.
It's OK to. Accept that today I can be OK.
The way we deepen this is in the second answer, which is the
Saorbisa. What is Saorbisa?
It's the ego. It's the Itara, the Saor.
This leavening. Agent gives the bread an
illusion that it created something of itself.
It creates something within its own ingredients that it could
then look at and say, look how great I am.
I'm bread. I could be.
I could be a crustini, I could be sourdough, I could be a
pizza, I could be a fancy matza. I could be literally anything.
I could be beautiful. People can love me.
People can appreciate me, people can adore me.
It's very performative. That's the sor.
And on the other hand, what is matzo?
What is matzo that doesn't have that leavening agent?
It's lechem only it has another, not another in the sense that
it's it's, it thinks slowly of itself, but it has this in a
deeper level. It has this real sense of
another. I understand that that which is
beyond me or that which I have is not from me.
I didn't create that. I am not my performativity.
I'm something deeper. I have a core, I have an
essence. So when it comes to the matzo,
the matzo has no sense of illusion that it is anything
other than its essence. And what is that essence?
It's ultimately that it it's from the bare ingredients of
it's it's from Hashem. It's identity doesn't come from
being tied to its performance when it comes back to the
workplace. The point of or one idea to take
into Pesach is how can I learn how to recenter my identity in
the matzo of who I am? It's not that it's bad to
perform. You have to perform and
sometimes that performance looks like winter.
Sometimes that performance looks like summer.
But the question is, am I connected to the tree?
Am I connected to the core of who I am?
Naming that dynamic I think is one of the biggest things I've
seen with the friends of mine who are enjoying their work
versus the ones who are not. The ones who are fulfilled the
work and the ones who are not Why?
Because it allows you to be playful with the dynamic.
That's exactly what I did at work.
When I started giving Debray Torre, I understood that I was
playing a role. I was paid money to do a certain
role. I was expected to do due
diligence on startups. That's why I was being paid
money. And I'm going to do that.
I'm going to do that well. But because I understand that
that's a performance and that that's not going to affect who I
am at my core, I could actually slowly start to introduce more
of who I am without being scared it's going to affect myself,
worth or my status. So when we go into pay sock, I
think this piece is spend a week shedding yourselves of of the
identities and all of them good and bad.
Shed yourself a performance for one week.
The goal is not matzo forever, the goal is to recenter yourself
in matzo so when you go back to bread, you understand the core
and that's true of your religious identities.
I remember to say yeshiva, it was like if my rabaine think I'm
doing well or if my fellow friends think I'm doing well,
then I'm then I'm doing well in yeshiva.
That's performative in some sense.
Does it mean I was being a better evidence or not?
Not necessarily. If I am at at home and my
siblings see me as being a good son to my parents or my parents
see me being as a good son, am I?
Am I? Am I necessarily doing that
right? It's not so clear.
And I think part of it is, is, is it is sustainable over time?
And when you only perform without the sense of self, when
you're stuck in the OR when you're stuck in the ego, over
time, you lose connection to yourself.
So it's, it's a unfulfilling, but B, it's ultimately not
effective. You'll burn out.
So between these two answers, some things are out of your
control. There's Shiba mafios to that.
Pesach says go eat matzo. Go learn that a winter tree is
still a tree. It's still valuable and
ultimately, if you don't want to live in winter, you could look
for other jobs. But if you don't have a choice,
learn how to find value in that. But the second piece is what's
in your control is learning how to rid yourself of learning how
to be Movata yourself of all of this, of the self identification
with all the different expressions of your
performativity. So yeah, that's that's that's
something I've been thinking about.
I think about it now. I mean, this is in I'm, I'm
literally doing this in real time, as I mentioned before.
I mean, it's really hard to breakthrough the performative
layer because I know even sharing the whole piece about
how vulnerable it is to call out performativity, that's
performing vulnerability. It's really hard to breakthrough
the soul or it's really hard to breakthrough the ego.
You need to, to actually take time to eat matzo, to eat matzo,
to meditate on the matzo. So, you know, going into Pesach,
I, I give us that bracha that we, we all, everyone who's
listening, me and you, we all have that ability to do that.
So that's a really a powerful and deep idea.
I guess one of the things that I've thought about a lot, and
it's maybe a little bit of a different angle on the same
question, is that, you know, when the Rama in hill Jose Deo
says that a person is basically a product of their surroundings.
So there he seems to say, like, you're going to be influenced by
the people around you. You should try to influence your
you should try to put yourself around the right people because
that influence is going to happen.
And again, taking a step back from that, I seem to understand
that he's, he doesn't really recognize that distinction so
much between the performative and the true self because he's
saying, you know, it's hard to draw that line.
What's coming from around you is going to inclate into you.
And therefore you better try to put yourself in the best peer
pressure that you can. So I guess how do you think
about that idea and how it tracks on this sort of the, the
distinction that you tried to draw?
And there's a compelling distinction between the
performative and the peer pressure versus what's really
there underneath. It's a great.
Question. Part of it is is self.
Awareness. And honesty.
Like rigorous honesty, I think a lot of people are like are
capable of being a little bit honest with themselves.
It's very hard to be rigorously honest.
You know, that's why I was trying to get out of the end
there is it's really hard to do this.
It's really, really hard to get to the matzo of your artist like
inner work to really see what's, what's the matzo of women?
What's the, what do I, what's really at stake for me at work?
Why, why really can I leave this job or why really can I not
bring more of myself to to my relationships?
I think the reason why I say self-awareness is because it's
the album's obviously right in that the environments have an
impact on you. My environment had an impact.
Yeah, I work and there is an element in which you, if you
have a choice, you can make choices.
And that's where I think there's kind of the two parts here is
sometimes it's Shiba Mafios. I don't think anyone living
under, under Adam's rule or under, under any of the, the
different Shibuddin we've been under, I don't think anyone
chose that. So on some level you don't have
a choice. We didn't have a choice, but to
live under that, that she would. If you're in that environment.
To that I say there's like a level of work you have to do on
pesos and around and around the clock of what am I performing
and, and, and what am I losing from that performance.
Ultimately, you're the one who gets on, who gets disconnected.
You're the one who's unfulfilled.
You're the one who's performing a relationship.
I mean, I think people see that in all aspects.
They're like, it's not just work.
People see that in their friendships.
People see that in their relationship with Hashem.
People see that in their marriages where maybe it looks
like a relationship, maybe it looks like a great relationship
to the outside, but inside the relationship is killing the
participants. So I think when it.
Comes to to to the question of whether it's out of your
control. There's an element of you got to
do what you can do. When it's in your control, it
might be even harder. And when it's in your control,
then I'd say be honest and choose environments that are
good for you professionally and religiously, personally, however
you want to look at it. Amazing these.
Are really fascinating ideas and I, you know, hope that everyone
listening is able to sort of find the the freedom, whether
it's the freedom within within a external situation or freedom to
choose between situations, whether they're at those
junctures. I want you have to see after
this Maya to make those right decisions and to, as you said,
be really honest to themselves, as hard as that can be.
And I think also just one other thing that I think about to
appreciate that what you're saying is that, you know, we
think about like our issue of years of being so stark and so
strong or whatever. But like if you think about, you
know, life about being that real honesty and that real maturity,
that real depth that is required for these types of internal
conversations, there's no way that we're doing that properly
at 18/19/20. I'm still not doing it properly.
But it can only get that, that, you know, clearly see that you
improve and get mature in that regard over time.
So that's a really, you know, really wonderful ideas.
Max, appreciate you sharing with us and I look forward to staying
in touch. Awesome, thanks for having me.
We are joined. Now by my good friend Zach
Lenok. Zach, welcome to Stark Tank.
Thank you for joining us today. Thank.
You it's, it's really a beautiful studio you have here.
I gotta say thank you so much. Likewise for you over there and
hobo. So you need to tell our audience
briefly before we jump into the Torah discussion about yourself,
what you do professionally, some of the Torah you're teaching
online, in person. Yes.
My name is Zach Lenok. I am a real estate agent here in
Israel, primarily focused on helping people move to Israel,
at least invest in Israel. I think if you, you know, on
something here, you've got a foot in the dorm, way more
likely you're going to spend a lot more time here.
That's the the passion behind it.
And I taught in yeshivas for nights there for like 5 years.
I recently moved to Rehobo. So now when I get the chance,
I'll teach like a kabura. And mostly it's focused around
the holiday that you know, that's happening.
There's always a holiday to talk about.
There's always something upcoming.
So that's primarily what the sharing more about.
Yes, that's a great segue. We are here, we are pass out.
Is is right on the doorstep. So make sure it has some tower
from Hobo, some tower from Zach's base measures as we
approach Haga Pasa. Yeah, yeah.
From from the base, I had to kick everybody out so that we
can do that. So what we're approaching now is
unique because there's a few holidays we have.
I mean, really it's just a show as we're going that are not only
the holiday itself, but there's also a man, there's this man
that surrounds this man. Here's his man, suppose his man.
So this man I feel like is really what's influencing or you
know what I mean, kind of giving all of the meaning behind all of
the actions and all of the different mitzvahs that are
surrounding the day. So the real goal on some level
is that you achieve something called heroes.
And it's not just that we're remembering something that
happened thousands of years ago to our people, but we're
reincorporating every holiday. We're reincorporating what that
means nowadays. It would be very hard to imagine
a meaningful life without a concept of freedom and without a
consistent. Feeding.
Of that concept of freedom, right?
Whatever freedom meant to you when you were 20s hopefully
means a lot more when you're 25, hopefully means a lot more than
you're 30 and so on and so forth.
So every time you come back in contact with the holiday, with
the Zaman, you have all that year of experience to bring it
with you. You have a lot more working with
you. There's a year of growth.
And so, you know, the, the connection to the idea of Harry
should grow as well. And there's something that I
think is it's really beautiful because as you may have been
able to guess, I grew up in America.
And so the American conception of freedom is something that
exists in an instant that is more or less the extent of how
at least I think primarily it's spoken about and presented
freedom is that no one's stopping you.
You can do whatever you want. Today I could do this tomorrow,
I could do that. I can do whatever you want.
I'm free. And yet.
And so we have this, you know what I mean?
That was my basis understand of of Paris.
And you could not have a more contrasted day in the entire
year. OK, here's Montreal Seno.
This is your chance to recognize, remember, you know,
reinvigorate the meaning of freedom back into your life.
The pinnacle of that whole thing comes with the, you know, the
core of Pesach and the Seder night.
There is no night in your entire life that has more rules
regulations. Now you pick this up.
Now you put it down. Now you smack the matzo.
Now you eat the matzo. You have to eat this amount of
matzo or it doesn't count. Do it again.
You have to drink this. You have to drink it leaning.
You didn't lean. Do it again.
There's nothing about the night which allows for tremendous
amount of deviation. Literally had it's called order.
You have a night of order. That's what Seder means in order
and you haven't I got it tells you exactly what you need to say
the whole time. So the contrast is so stark that
it's it's almost it's just wild, right?
What you would imagine that Aloha should say is here are all
the different components, let's say of pleasure that exists
during a meal, Whatever you're more comfortable with do, but
you should think about that. Have a sensitivity to it has us
have a sensitivity to whether or not you like leaning or not.
Have a sensitivity to how much matzo is comfortable for you.
Be pay attention, take a second, take 5 seconds.
Is that good? No more.
OK, good. You're free mat, you can do
whatever you want. It's the exact opposite.
I don't care how your tummy feels, you're shoving more matzo
down your throat whether you like it or not.
And so I think that it's clear that the Jewish recognition, the
Jewish understanding of Harris is so opposite of that.
And I don't think that it's actually, I don't, I don't think
that it's totally opposite because you do need to be able
to do whatever you want in a given instant to have hairs.
That's a necessary embedded, you know, feature of it.
But the problem with that is that it's, it's like we said,
it's an it's an instant, the real question of Harris.
I think that makes it a lot more powerful.
And there we say eBay, Cornell, me show, Sigpa Torah.
And Torah is all about commitments, consistency.
You know what I mean? Hashem never actually says at
any point you're going to go to be a free man.
He says, I'm going to take you out of Mitzrayim from this
slavery to my slavery. Just pick your slavery.
And I think that the real, the real difference between a free
man and a slave is that the free man gets to choose his slavery.
I'll explain what that means because if I now have the
ability to make a choice that's meaningful, it's not the ability
to choose between what color shirt I'm going to wear today.
That's not necessarily a meaningful decision or what ice
cream flavor we're going to get. The meaningful decision is what
do I want to become? What is something that I can see
in my future that would be worth attaining, that would provide
meaning in my life? And another way of looking at
that same question, or really the practical way of looking at
that same question is. What?
Set of rules would I need to commit to on a consistent basis
for how long to achieve that, to achieve that being my favorite
example of this just because he had the you know, the whole
brand behind it was Kobe Bryant. Kobe Bryant decides he's going
to be the best basketball player ever.
OK. He doesn't sleep whenever he
wants to sleep, he doesn't eat whatever he wants to eat.
He doesn't go wherever he wants to go.
He doesn't do whatever he wants to do.
He doesn't say whatever he wants to say.
He doesn't. There's an immense amount of
rules that something meaningful that making a meaningful choice
would then bind you to. And the only difference in terms
of the amount of work that's involved between the freeman and
the slave is the same amount. And I think that that's why when
Alvaro Mavino wants to understand how Hashem is going.
To embed. A nation with the same desire
for freedom, that same Harris that he spent his life fighting
for, He says, how are you going to do that?
How are you going to find a way to embed that in a nation?
What does that mean? Not everyone is going to choose
this, he says, oh, because they're going to know everything
about slavery. They're going to know exactly
what it takes. They're going to.
It's the same amount of work. You're not working any less
hard. I mean, if you're really free,
right, we're slave to our Taivas, we're a slave to a lot
of things that in really inhibit our freedom.
But if you're really free, there's no less work than a
slave. The only difference is that the
freeman gets to choose a slavery, the slave just gets a
given to him. Can you clarify?
The difference between or the comparison to, you know, a
basketball player, Kobe Bryant and all these other athletes who
really is incredible to think about a little bit how much they
restrict themselves and push themselves and set all sorts of.
I once heard Tom Brady has like this ridiculous diet, right?
He doesn't eat tomatoes because like they might cause some type
of infection or I don't know, whatever it is.
I can send like his food like just taste disgusting because
he's so committed to eating only the very healthiest and best
foods. But I guess that mushal is, is
interesting because they're, you know, they want to achieve
something. They are deciding that this is
the best way for them to achieve it.
And it's so basically they're, they're, they're serving
themselves and using the rules as a way to serve something
themselves. Whereas we believe that we're
serving Khashbar, who we are his Avadim and we are designed to be
as Avadim. So there is, I think, a
distinction in my mind between those two.
So you can just clarify to what extent you think that that
mushal is what point you're trying to bring out And, and
where does that muscle end? I I.
Actually think that it's and that it's the same because we
don't actually say that the goal is to be the avid.
The goal is to be the Ben horn and the Ben horn is the one
who's osik batora. And anybody who's really given
up that much for Torah always recognize that it's a self
becoming. It's not like I've done this all
for God in a totally selfless way that has nothing to do with
my particular being, my life, my relationships, whatever.
I just put all that aside for a Shem.
No, no, the point is that you utilize everything that you have
that is your, you know, unique individuality.
You recognize what it is that you could be how what, what kind
of Shem ask for you? How could you maximize the
potential that he's put at your doorstep and finding a way to do
that. So we, we would say something
like this. We would say, I want to be a
Bentora. Oh, you want to be Bentora?
You have the freedom to do that. It's not the freedom to lift
your hand now or do this or walk over there.
That's the freedom to get up every morning at 5:30 and learn
the doff before you go to Nate's, before you do this.
And then eat, but not eat too much.
Because if Ventura doesn't eat too much and make sure that
you'd spend a whole minute, maybe or two minutes or
whatever, you know, saying you're after bracha.
And that means that you were going to act a certain way.
You're going to dress a certain way you're going to go doesn't
mean actually any of the particulars, but it means that
there's there's a way that influences really what it comes
out with is that the more. The.
More meaningful, the more potent the choices.
The more potent the Harris is, the more it's going to influence
every aspect of your life so you can make it right.
That's the greater choice. The greater meaning of the
choice is how many different parts of your life is it going
to affect. And then I think it really comes
out, which is why that Pesach is so focused on the, on the, and
there's a lot of different examples of that, but
specifically brought out, I think in the Corbin pass out
that it has to be eaten with one group of people and it has to
be, you know, you can't break any of the bones.
The Mara talks a lot about this as well.
But that the, the, the yefood Hashem means that there's a
oneness in your life that when we say she might saw some
looking at Shamahad, that means that there's no part of your
life that's not involved in that there's no part of your life
that Hashem is not involved with.
It's the way you go to sleep. It's the way you wake up, it's
the way you talk, it's the way you think, it's the way you eat.
It's it's influencing every single aspect of every single
second of every single day and only right.
That's why it's the ultimate choice.
That's why it's the real freedom, because it actually has
the capacity to make a choice so meaningful that no second of
your life from that point on doesn't is not a reflection of
it. It's interesting because.
The way I've thought about this, and maybe we're we're saying the
same thing in different words. Maybe not.
You can tell me if you how you see it, but I actually think
that the the muscle to the, you know, the the extreme athletes
of Ventura is actually a very, very good one.
With the caveat that I think every Jew, because Monica has
certain obligations and certain demands and requires a certain
level of commitment that we expect of every single last
farmer and garbage man electrician who's part of our
nation. Then there's the concept of, you
know, the Chevit levy his I don't calls it Nisa Olibo who he
wants something more. He wants to be a big common
hobby. He's driven by that and he's
going to put himself farther and farther and farther.
So I think it's like these two components where there is a
certain level of commitment that we don't believe, as you
correctly referenced before this American dream of like, I could
do whatever I want and that's the life.
Like we don't believe in that. Everyone has a certain baseline
level of laws and obligations they're committed to.
And then there are people who are going to want to do more and
there is room for that, right? If you over regulated and over
legalize it, then there's no room for that individual
expression. And that's where the Harris
comes in that you now there are there's a lot of different roles
and call you strong and you have a choice to within the framework
of halacha and the and the laws to push yourself in certain
directions and be certain things right there.
There. There are certain things that
are obligated with all the things that are obligated,
right? You're in real estate and on
marketing and those are both fine, right?
There are people who learn more and learn less and live here and
live there, so they have a lot of room for individuality and
for heroes, but there's also boundaries and laws that govern
all of us. That's sort of how I think about
a general dynamic. Is that what you're driving it
also, or are you thinking about it differently?
I definitely think that that's the case.
And I do think that even though we're looking at the same exact
mitzvah, which would be something, let's say, you know,
to be one of the broader mitzvahs that that, you know,
tend to be dovek to Hashem or something like that.
It's so broad, even though we're both looking at the same exact
thing, the way that it expresses itself is so radically different
person to person because it's what it's what you can give, you
know what I mean? And and So what you can give is
not what he can give is not what I can give, is not what they can
give is not what you know what I mean.
So the way that it shows up, it's true that it was, it's not
about it's not about being hyper regulated.
It's about being hyper conscious and that every second of your
day is a second that you're paying attention.
It doesn't mean that every second of the day I can point to
the Shokanura and say, look, I'm being my kind that exact Alaqa
in this very moment. It's the point of the day that
every single reflection of what you do is saying, look, I was
that's why I love the idea of Alaqa because I was holy with
Hashem through that exact thing. I was thinking about him the
whole time. It didn't it didn't leave my and
so when I think about him, when you think about him, whatever
ever goes about in a different way and you know the different
activities that are part of whatever it is.
But I I don't think that the the guidelines albeit are supposed
to affect every oz and every second of your life are
necessarily so regimented as it might come off by the.
Way I think so as an aside, you know, we're trying to do a short
segment here. I think this is like a massive
question that that permeates so much what we do, how we think
about freedom, especially those of us who grow up in the the
Western society influenced by American thinking.
There are certainly good healthy overlaps are certainly dangerous
diversions. So I think and then there are a
lot, lots of things that sort of restrict our freedom and and and
enhance our freedom. So I think this is like a a
massive question that that that deserves a lot more than we're
giving it. So any other final, final
thoughts about the Sugya of Abdus and heiress and Abdus
Hashem before we wrap up There's?
One last one that I think touches on a little bit of the
point that we were mentioning, which is that there is an
aspect, right? Everything kind of that we've
said is much more about the, the, the TAMID, right?
The ability to do something consistency over a long period
of time is what creates that freedom.
And there's a lot of truth to that, but there's also the
recognition that you're not bound by your past to produce
your future. And I think that.
The way that it shows up is so. Cool in the.
Seder, because, and the Seder is trying to in many ways capture
what the Corbin Pesach. You know what we don't have any
more with the Corbin Pesach. And what's crazy about the
Corbin Pesach is that's one of the, I think there's only two
carbonos that ever move the tummet, right?
It brings it up a few hours to leave all the time to shut
everybody's sheep. And I think that that's exactly
why we're supposed to ask so many questions in the seder,
because you're supposed to be paying attention.
You're supposed to be you move the tummet, right?
We move the thing that's normal, what's usually happening to keep
yourself aware and keep yourself paying attention to what's going
on. And I think that the way that
that the questions that speak to me, the questions that stick out
to me, that's the direction that each person is supposed to go.
And that's the part that's keeping everybody, you know what
I mean, paying attention. And that the Harris is not, is
not just regimen and it's not just exactly, you know what I
mean, following the the guideline, something that you're
always paying attention to. And ideally, the more you're
paying attention, the more you realize that your regiment also
even gets updated or you know what I mean?
Like you add things to it because, oh, I did, I could do
this better. I could do the better.
I had AI had a something hit me that I realized there was an
aspect of it that it wasn't even tapping into whatever it is.
And so I also, I also really like that that's the one of the
greatest expressions of Harris is being able to ask why?
Because a slave doesn't have that and that hides.
Back to where you opened with or you opened with these monkey
receiving this Mon and that always come and you have to
constantly be revisiting. So you brought that all the way
full circle. That's really interesting and
thank you for sharing that. Zach, You also didn't mention in
your in your intro that you are creating a lot of content in a
lot of different platforms and maybe just a brief link tree
audio version of where people can find you and connect with
you. I'm on.
Instagram Zach under score in under score Israel.
I put stuff up on YouTube. I have a podcast myself called
the DHR podcast who I was lucky enough to host Yakovan trying to
help people understand what's going on in different
communities and really what their choices look like on the
other side of the sea. And even if people are already
here, just what else is out there?
Because a lot of times people come to very safe hubs and so
you want to maybe branch out a bit.
So I try to go around interviewing people of different
communities, showing people what you know, what I mean, what
Ingles are doing out here. Yeah, I thought.
I was like, I live in a cool place.
Then you went to a Hilltop in the show and I'm like, oh, I got
nothing on that guy. He is playing a whole other.
I don't know, honestly, I could imagine somebody doing it.
The idea of taking your whole family out there is just so
different from the life that I'm leaving.
It's just so crazy, you know what I mean?
To just be able to say like, yeah, tomorrow the government
might come and pick up my house and take it.
Crazy. But I, yeah, so I do that and
I'm putting out WhatsApp statuses all the time.
And I like to just show people what's going on in Israel.
Little bit of Torah, never go wrong with a little bit of Torah
and and then apartments, real estate updates, insights, stuff
like that. Awesome.
Zach Lennick, thank you for
coming off to starting today and look forward to staying in
touch. Thanks.
So. Much Yakov.
I had a real pleasure. We're joined.
Now by my good friend Mark Tobin.
Mark, welcome to starting. Thanks for joining us.
Thank you for. Having me, Yakov.
So just maybe a brief introduction to our listeners
about yourself, who you are, what you do, and then we'll get
into some Torah. Sure.
My name is Mark Tobin. I made Alia almost 28 years ago
it'll be 28 years this summer I'm the father of four and all
four married children, the grandfather of five.
I live in Bachemish, made Alia directly to Bachemish from Boca
Raton, FL and I currently have two things that I do. 1 is I run
a company that I started in 2020 which which license intellectual
property. And the other thing I do is I I
I deal in the area of wealth management.
I manage a family office for a family here in Israel.
Amazing. So we're coming up.
Pasak is very much on the horizon, getting closer every
minute. So maybe share with us some of
your favorite ideas, the rhetora that you're thinking about as we
approach the Seder, OK? Two of the the themes that I try
to focus on on Pesa, especially the last few years are one is
the the idea of Leila Seder being the Rosh Hashanah of
Emunah as the TiVo Chalon puts it.
The, the idea of Itzi at Mitzrayim being this time of
incredible Amuna. And, and it's our ability to, to
take that amuna and bring us through the year, use the stator
as a springboard to move forward.
And we know that every day we have the mitzvah of zeitziat
Mitzrayim. But there's a special thing
about the seder, about being with the family, about being all
around the table. Especially I think that it falls
into very much into the idea of you got to tell the BIMCA this
idea that we're sitting around a table with our children, with
our grandchildren, and the idea that we are trying to
incorporate the idea of a muna into our our children's lives
and into our grandchildren's lives.
You know, the one thing is we know that that we're told about
the Seder. What if you tell more of the
Seder, you tell more of the story, you're considered that
you're doing a mitzvah better. I think it's the only mitzvah
that it's like that. The more the better that we do
that. And I think that especially when
you take into the Amuna component of it, the more a
moment Amuna you could, you can, you can bring forth, the better
you are in your life. So I think that that's a really
interesting thing. Last year I learned a very
interesting thing idea and I got it from a Haggadah that I that
I, that I used from a Rabbi Gidon Weitzman, who's a student
of our cook. And one of the ideas that I
really like that he talked about was in the Arba Bunning, the
four children, he groups them together in different groups.
He groups the the Tom and the hafam together.
And he has a very interesting point.
He says the first thing is in the in the Torah, the answer
that is given to the Tom appears in in safer Schmut.
And the answer that's given to the hafam is in safer Dvari.
And he makes a very nice point that first, before we get into
being a hafam, we have to be a Tom.
We have to be simple. We have to just ask the simple
question, what is this? What is this all about?
And I think that very much ties into the idea of a muna.
And muna has to be the basis of our life.
If we don't have the muna, halakha doesn't have much much
value to us. That if we have the basis in
Amuna, the halakha flows and and we're able to really appreciate
it. The other thing that I saw on
the Arbabani is this idea about the hafam.
How do we answer the hafam? So the Huckum's question is, ma
who Omer Maha you do it for? Who came with Fatima, shared
Siva Hashem, the afata Amor locate Hilhota Pesa and we give
him the answer. But he asked this question about
all the Hulkima and then Fatima, all the laws and all the
statute. Everything he wants to know, he
wants to know the hallaha fully. And we give him that answer.
We answer him, we tell him everything about Hilhod Pesa.
We tell him all the laws, all the statutes, but it ends the
end of the answer to the fathom is in Maftiri Maha Pesaf
afikomen. And the last thing that you
should eat on the day at the seder is the afikomen.
And so the question is why is that added in of all the, of all
the things that we tell them, why do we have to highlight that
particular engine? And I think it's a very nice
point that made that I heard from a very good friend of mine,
Alan Jackowitz, He said we have to instruct him on the Tom of
the pesa, which is the afikomen at the end of the seder, because
we need tying this into a muna. The idea that you leave the
Seder, you have to have the Tom. The time is not only the time of
the Pesach, of the carbon Pesach, but the time of where
we're going. The time of the idea of the
Pesach is to bring us closer to the Gula, right?
The ultimate the Pesach will not be us sitting around our Seder
tables in no fare Viv or in Brooklyn or wherever it is.
It will be when we're sitting at the Beta Mcdash in our Kabura
and we're eating the the carbon Pesach at the end of our Seder.
And I think that. That's a really important
message that DRY halacha has, has a place, Halafa has a place,
but in the end of the day, we have to give the final message.
The final message is you need the time, and that's the time of
mitzvot. That's the time of yahadut.
That's the time of a muna that's going to get us forward.
And I think that that's an incredible, incredible way of
looking forward. Also, I saw a really important
thing from Uri Shirky, who's a rub at Mahone Niya.
And this really deals with the issue of how we look at
ourselves, right? The Rambam changes the gear set
of Le wrote it's at SMO. You know, you should see
yourself as being part on the seder.
And he says Lahar wrote you should experience.
It's more of an experience. And Ravshirky says the following
on the on the bracha in the in the Amida says with the Khazena
and nabushuvhat, let's see on right.
And maybe we hold, Maybe we behold.
Your. Return and see the returns at
Cione. Most people look at that as a as
a future. We should see it in the future.
But Shirky has an interesting insight and he says, no, it's
not the future, it's right now. At each particular point, we
need to see ourselves as the goola is unfolding.
And that I think is also the message of the seder that we
have to give off, especially this year.
This year when we see the open miracles that are happening in
front of us, we're on the cusp of the goola.
And I think that's for this, this year, this Seder 2026, that
is I think the ultimate message that we want to be giving to our
children, to our grandchildren and to ourselves that we have,
we are living in miraculous times and we're living at a time
when Bezrat Tashem next year, if not this year, we'll be sitting
in Yerushalayim. We'll be getting our carbon
peso, hopefully not from Amazon, but from the fields of Beit
Shemesh. And we'll be eating in the in
the Beita Mcdash. That's my.
Main I mean. It's a beautiful, beautiful
idea. Then it's interesting how the,
you know, you spoke about the, the simple questions being the
prerequisite, and you also spoke about having the children and
giving them a MUNA. So students are very much
connected, right? Having the kids around forces us
to deal with, you know, the, you know, the kids of that age
always asking what's this, what's this, what's this, what's
this? The very simple questions.
But that's saying that we all need to be asking ourselves and
re re examining, reimagining. And reconnecting to those very
basic fundamental principles as we March forward and strengthen
our mood now hopefully as we continue to to March towards the
Gula. So Mark, thank you for these
beautiful de Vitora and I look forward to staying in touch.
OK. Thank you.
We are. Now joined by Morty Goldenberg.
Morty, welcome to Shark Tank. Thank you for joining us.
Thank you for having me. So before.
We jump into some pace after Vitora.
Maybe just give a very brief, brief intro to yourself, what
you do professionally, some of the Torah you're learning and
teaching in Boca Raton. My name is Morty Goldenberg.
I'm originally from Staten Island, NY.
We've been in Boca Raton, FL for about 10 years.
I am an orthodontist here in the community and Sheeran.
Thank God we're supposed to give a lot of Sheeran here in the in
Boca. We've been doing a Amid Shibui
and amid a week program for about 8-9 years and we've been
up to finish five miss sectors. We are now in our 6th miss
sectors. So it's an incredible testament
to the will of the Jewish people to do one on the week for
certain people who that's appropriate for and you can
accomplish an incredible amount amazing it's.
Beautiful. So let's talk some Torah, maybe
share with us a favorite idea, an inspirational idea, something
that you connect to very deeply about haga pasa habali new
latova. One of my favorite parts on the
Haggadah is actually tucked away in the end of Rev Avram Shores
Hagada. And he quotes a beautiful idea.
You know, we go through this, this beautiful night of
inspiration of Emuna and Bhitakhon and Nisora talking to
our children. And at the end of all of that,
we end off with these like Children's Games, these like
echo Mio de who knows one I know one, we all love the songs, we
all love the stories. But like, how is that the
pinnacle of where we're supposed to get to at the end of the
Hagadah? So he starts off with an
interesting point from his father, an interesting hara from
his father of the Dali shore. And he says that someone once
came up to him and said, you know, I don't understand the
Gemara. We we're supposed to wear
taylas, right? And we're learning enough of us
now we're supposed to learn wear taylas.
So we. See.
Taylas, it's DOMA, Liam and the Kisi are covered and we think
all these lofty sites he goes. I look at my sits as I don't
really think of the kisi are covered when I look at them.
I don't understand how I'm supposed to do that sort of.
Gadalia. Answered and he said, can I ask
you a question? You know, the Gemara says that
you're not supposed to look at big dates of, on him, colored
clothing, women's colored clothing, because it might lead
to illicit thoughts, inappropriate thoughts.
Does that come on and make sense to you?
And he goes, sure, yeah, when you see those clothing, that's
what you think about. He says that's the problem.
It's all about association. It's where your mind truly is.
If your mind isn't goshmius, then those things are going to
lead off a trickle effect to where you're eventually going to
think of at the end of the line, he says.
But if your mind is called Kulo Torah, you're thinking about a
Kurdish baraku, then that's sight of blue.
All it's going to lead to is this trickle effect that's going
to lead to the Kisea covered. So what I'm sure explains from
from Ivan Gorvitz, as he says at the end of this whole seder,
what we're trying to see is did the seder work?
Did this night of emunah have an impact on you?
When I say the number one, do you think about 11 million?
That's what I want to get to in revenue this year.
When I say the number 3, 3. I want to.
Have three locations for my business, so I could really do
all those things that I want to do.
Or when I say the number one, do you think of that's a Venus
Shabbat Shamayan? When I say 3, does that make you
think of the oboes? It's like the religious Roar
Shark Inkbot test. When you see.
This image, what does it make you think about what we're
trying to accomplish is to test us at the end of the seder after
this incredible night to Venmuna be Tahoonen lofty de Freitura.
When I say these things, where is your mind holding to me that
always spoke to me because again, we're living in a in a
world where we're called Shakua in the world of Gashmi surround
us. But we have to carve out these
little areas of life where our mind is really free to express
itself. And we're we're we're, we're,
we're able to change our thoughts and to think about
things on a more lofty and higher plane.
That's a beautiful. Idea, maybe just one or two
follow up questions. You know, you're out there
running your, you know, being orthodontist, helping people.
I don't know if you run your own practice, your personal
practice, but you know, it's one thing to sit Seder night.
After a few hours. Without your phone and to get to
that point of association and a MUNA.
But you know, how do we take that after Pesach beyond when
we're actually going back to the office, back into business and
actually build foundations? Is it about having such a high
experience that there's enough residue to take us into the
months follow or is is there a specific skill into applying it
when we're actually, you know, when the rubber hit the road?
So I think. Robbie Goldberg always says he
quotes from a famous podcaster. I don't remember the name
offhand, but he says that we tend to think of greatness as a
destination, but it's not. It's a verb.
It's made out of small little moments in time that you decide
to become great in the moment. And I think what he always talks
about and what we learned in this farm is that like, you
can't have lofty ideas just sitting up there.
It's got to become concretized. So to me, it's the idea of these
moments of inspiration throughout the month, throughout
the year. We take them and even if it's
only for a short time, to make a plan, to create a system of what
is my plan over the next month? Even if it doesn't last longer
than that, How am I going to carve away on a Monday night?
I'm going to Start learning from 8:00 to 8:30, but Kavua, every
Monday night, 8 to 830, learn something.
Or I'm going to call up a friend that I haven't spoke to in a
long time and ask him if he wants to learn on the phone with
me. So to me, I think the greatest
inspiration we can get is by really concretizing that into
solid and and relatable actions that you can accomplish and do
that right afterwards. And again, even if it doesn't
last for so long, but at least it'll take you the month and
when that month is gone, figure out.
Another. Plan.
Think out. Something else?
OK, Morty Goldenberg, this is a very special.
I appreciate you coming on and sharing some great with our
professor. Wishing you and your family,
your community, you as. Well, all the best joining us
now. My good friend, you all about
myself, you all welcome. Thank you for joining us.
Nice to be here, so maybe just tell.
Us briefly about yourself, what you professionally, some of the
learning that you're involved in.
Sure. So I live in London, born and
grew up in London. I know you after from my years
in Karen Biovner. Now back in London.
I'm married with three kids and I work at PwC.
I'm in a corporate tax team and I've tried to keep learning
since Yeshiva. Some in the morning and some in
the evening. In the evening base mostly.
Unfortunately I've lost lost my harvest of my brother who I've
lived with for a few years. We've just got married so I'm in
the on the hunt for a new harvester or Hashem.
The evening base is a really good place to land.
OK, so. As we get ready for Pasatiya,
what do you want to share with us?
OK, so. I found a fascinating medres
which really I think touched the calls with me as a an
accountant. Well, at least I qualify as an
accountant. And so I wanted to share this
medres but also maybe tie in and make it relevant for for
specifically for peso and the seda.
So as we set the Seda and worked through the Hydra, I think
sometimes it's helpful to take a step back and reflect on where
are we going? We say in the Khoda, you say
sophomas and Marshall. It's to know where you're going
in order that you have. It doesn't really necessarily
matter which way you get to there.
There can be multiple pass to your goal, but you need to be
clear on your goal and where are we trying to get to?
So Dagoda takes us on a journey, right?
The the the resonance to talk about.
I have column notice I start smoking.
He'll he'll be awesome and it's time you're a journey through
the story. But we're trying to get
somewhere and I think there's two places in the Hagadah which
really bring out where where we're going.
At the end of the Hagadah, we say everyone will sing the
shaman Ababi or Shalaim. And I think that not just an
afterthought or something that we think about the end, but
really that's the the point of our God or the aim.
We're we're aiming, we're aiming for your Shaline.
We're aiming for the base stomach dosh.
And I think the other place that you see this clearly is in, in
Diano. So we're going through step by
step the the the hustled and the kindnesses our first worker did
for us and the journey of Beninstra from it's Trium.
But it doesn't end when they get the time.
It's Trium. It doesn't end at Hassini.
The last line is the one of on earth base of Africa.
We get to Shalaim and build the base.
I mean, Josh, in fact, we don't. That's not really part of the
story at all. But nevertheless, that's the the
end goal. That's the last acts of festival
hospital does for us. And I think it's important to
think about this that the drill is not just about leaving
slavery. It's not just about coming out
and it's trying, but we're trying to get somewhere.
And the place that I've seen this recently and really also
brings us home is their their own barn inside in US is
famously inside. Thomas Safer Schmers talks about
why Safer Schmers doesn't just end when they come on Mitzrayim
or even with Matanzoa. But actually it keeps growing
all the way through the Mishkron.
And he says this similar idea that for the veneer's trial, our
purpose is to be a Merkova for a psychological presence in the
world. And OK, we don't go all the way
to Australia and say for Schmertz, but at least that the,
the intermediate stop is the Mishkron where we're able to
have a college Welker's presence amongst us.
And then we can have safer by April, which is about the
Mishkan and and super when we we're joining church's role,
which is to embed that even more permanently.
But ultimately the purpose for us as a people, a Jewish people,
is is to Polish Baka's presence amongst us constantly,
permanently, wherever, wherever we are, and particularly in a in
a permanent homeland there. So, so now I'm going to turn to
that medrish and and bring it in.
So actually on on this very similar theme.
This is the last medrish Raba in Safish moths.
So literally right at the end, the last few, the last piece
looking at talking, commenting on the Posuk.
When? Akashwalkosh Shinod comes down
into the Mishkan and I'm going to read through just some of the
relevant, relevant comments of the the medrish.
So the Med just brings deposit from Shashim, which says say NRN
A Benosi and Amela Shlomo. So go out and and see, I know
Shlomo Bartolo IMO biem hassanosso biem SIM Plaslibo.
So literally the the crown is malady of him on his wedding day
and Byung SIM Chaslibo day that he has Simcha.
So the Med just gives a few different shots in what's
referred to Bien Hastenoso, Bien SEM Hastenoso, and I'm going to
bring two of them. So the first one is Bien
Hastenoso is the Sinai. So it's referring to Claudius
Troll, and has seen as compared to a wedding between Habboschbok
and Claudius Troll. And then Biemsen Hastlibo is
Bieu Shalaim. So again, you have this dynamic
of the initial interaction, your moment of inspiration, the
Biemsen Haslibo. The real similar comes over time
when you when you settle down and and you make it, make
something permanent. And the second interpretation,
the majorship is, is actually the same idea.
Dovasa BM Classonosa is by Mishkan, the VM SIM class Libo
is the BIS Amidosh. So the same dynamic you have
that initial moment of inspiration.
The mission was temporary 40 years, but then you know SIM
class Libo is that permanent relationship of the BIS Amidosh
and. Through this measure.
She Ushalaim is referred to as Simchas Libo and the measures
carries on and says another posit about Ushalaim.
It says Ushalim is referred to as Euphaineau from the sauce
colorets lens of that posit is Howard CEO in the art of seed
software and Curiosmela Korovs Ushalim is referred to as
masseuse colorets. This idea of Simcha, which I
think then comes back to really relevantly for, for the Shalas
Rodolim in the midst of Simcha. But Simcha is, it's not just a
moment of inspiration, but it's really embedding a deep
relationship not with Akash Bahu.
And, and, and that's part of that was having your Shalayam as
a permanent home. And this is where the, the
accounting measures comes in, because it, the, the measures
then brings a memory of Rabbiophenon.
And he said, so after, after work out, it's actually what
this the measures means. But he says cheer partial hash
Buenos hoista huts new Shalayam. I think something there was an
accounting office booth somewhere where the the traders
could go the homie Shemavakis the hash shave when they wanted
to to to do their accounts an audit.
Holy Flashon they have they should go there.
Llama. Why should a yacht shove you
Shalayim V8 star They shouldn't have the annual audit.
They shouldn't rate that the profit and loss accounts.
I think shot is that then not just stomach counting is
painful, but potentially the traders would make a loss and
then they'd get distressed and then there just says Lafician
nitrates, masseuse cholera. It's your Shalaim has this
definition as as the moccan of Simcha and it's not just a point
in time. It shouldn't be something that's
temporary. This was an embedded definition
for your Shalaim and the way you should envision yourself
whenever you're in your Shalaim. Therefore, moments of distress.
If you're potentially going to come into a moment of distress
or moment of negativity, you should try and take that outside
your Shalaim. So now all for the accountants
who currently watch in your Shalaim.
I'm not commenting, but I think this idea is really powerful and
just thinking about the nature of Shalaim from a theoretical
perspective and what it's supposed to represent in their
comment on on those officers in your Shalaim and all your other
your other desk previously. But I think this really helps
you Shalaim and what we're looking for and what we're
aiming for through the on turf. And I I think just when we talk
about your shall I maybe should take this idea of my social art
and and embed it even farther and maybe a step deeper in that
a number of my abdomen Yeshiva will often talk about your
Shalaim and how it's got its name.
How do we how where's the name come from?
So this might be more well known but the two different episodes
in safer bracious and Navrom and Al Qaeda again in Hamario pulls
the site Hashemiyura Hashemiyuraya and the place
where experienced Hashem. It was invisible Hashem but also
a mockrim of era. So they have this idea of
presence of and era and then also martyid Sedek came out to
green avrom the food after the the war with the the Fort James.
His market said that my like Shaolin.
So shrine has this fusion of Hashem's presence.
Yura Yuraya also a year Yura sashem as the highest level of
Yura. And then Shaolin you have your
Schleim Shamnat. So you have your Schleim
Shamnat. So it's the place where we
interact like the presence is there.
It's the continuation of the Mishkan into this I made dosh.
Also this idea of Shamus. You have this idea of the
ultimate place of Harshbuckle's presence in the wild that fuses
the physical with the spiritual. So maybe if you can bring
accounting, then you can give it a divine purpose.
You can you, you, you have a career where you're constantly
able to see how Harshbuckle's presence.
Then maybe there's a a way of, of having your career within
your slime as well. So I think your slime as the
pinnacle of the Hadrador and and the peso story, clearly you have
to go through that journey. You have to go into Mitzrayim,
you have to come out of Mitzrayim.
But I think the idea that I wanted to bring out is always to
have that context, always to have that goal in mind that
you're aiming for Irshalayim. We're aiming for lives which are
fused with the spiritual within the physical presence wherever
you go, which should be that Merkova on the chariot by
political presence. Even for those of us who's still
living in Cos Laureate, that's also possible even if we're not
living in the. And so when we reach that point
of obviously we want it to be literally, we want it without
them, that the Gulo will come soon.
I think I'll just finish off with that, the end of this
medrush, which says Mishekhorva when Yoshin was destroyed, Orva,
that that element of Schleim was initially lost or exiled.
So it's spread out in the world. But Shayevna will bring, will
build Yoshilai and again the master, the sofas will bring
that all back again. That's what we're aiming for the
one that get on to then you have sources in the simpler toys of
the folds in raw as part of and you'll have some we'll have
solitaire. I'm back my Leonard.
I'll back you should I'm here be a minor.
Mean, I mean it's. A fascinating idea that connects
to a number of sort of themes that I think about a lot #1 is,
you know, we think about Simca. So a lot of association with
some color people will think, you know, in some color of us
are behind and they'll think about their Sue does.
But what that really, you know, originally means and and where
salvation talks about this that you know, the true simplest, the
Samaka financial to be in the Masonic touch with the real
carbonos than the than the sakam.
That's the the true form of ultimate form of Simcha, as
you're alluding to, And also the you know, this year, especially
I I don't, I don't enjoy being the triumphal and type.
To stick. It to, you know, brothers and
Clarets, but there are certainly people who who try to have their
cake and eat it too by living at Clarets and coming to artists
all come to shine for their Gollum and years like this.
It definitely makes you think about the the that dynamic and
and, you know, appreciate those who are actually in your shine
full time and they're not the ones who are who are who need to
rely on who need to rely on various geopolitical turns
events in order to actually do that.
So thank you for that. Y'all.
Thank you for taking the time on this a busy Arab hug season and
appreciate you know your friendship and your and your
being a role model for me for many many years and look forward
to staying in touch. My pleasure and I will continue
to listen, obviously. Thank.
You and. As we're getting ready for PESA,
we're getting ready to step into Yatsiyami Taim, to relive
Yatsiyami Taim not just as a story we tell, but as something
that we're meant to actually experience.
We pause the regular parasha cycle because the focus becomes
the story and retelling of the story of Itsami.
Time, where we came from, what it means to leave, and what
freedom is supposed to look like.
To help us think about that, we're joined this week by Yaakov
Wolf, who is who lives in Israel in the Negev and is the host of
Stark Tank, an amazing podcast that I recommend for everyone to
listen to. We're going to link you here who
has some ideas, but you tell me time, money and dignity that
we're really excited to discuss. NACO, thank you so much for
joining us this week. It's a great pleasure to be
here. I recently discovered this
podcast and I was so excited. It's really amazing what you
guys are doing and the using the podcast platform to bring in
people from around the world to learn to our together is
amazing. So thank you for inviting me.
Thank you so much. I'd love to get right into it.
What are your thoughts? And you see how much time and
how we can bring this to our everyday lives?
Yeah. So it's really just a couple
words in the Hagadashal pest off, but when you think about
them, there's some a lot to to talk about, which is that when
Akashboro, who tells Avraham ahead of time that there's going
to be a Shibuti mitraim and also a gula, he says they're going to
go down, they're going to come out and they're going to come
out. 2 words were Hushka doll and you know one element of the
story, the many layers to the past off story.
The fact is that they took with them silver and gold and other
things from from the Egyptians. And so OK, it's just one detail,
but when you think about it, this is there are two suck him
the where our cars bro who describes the whole story to
Avril Mavino and he doesn't go into that many details.
He doesn't talk about which Mako they're going to be.
He doesn't talk about mom and her Sinai or create the arms.
He doesn't go into detail anything except for this a quick
and YouTube Huska doll. They're going to go out and
they're going to be taking a lot of silver and gold with them.
And so that, you know, there's a little puzzling.
Why, why would that detail be highlighted top from if you
knew? Why is that an important part of
the story that that bears mentioning versus all of the
other details? So I have some ideas.
I'm going to show them in the moment.
I'm just curious off the bat, you guys, do you have you
thought about this? Do you know when you think about
the the the Huska doll that came out, why you think it's
important? I'm happy to hear if you guys
have any first takes before I before I jump in.
So I think it's something very much, I think it was very much
about Rene Serial's dignity here, where they've been slaves
and they're working for these people and for Hashem.
If they needed to leave in a place where they felt empowered,
where they felt that they were able to not take revenge
necessarily, but able to leave from a positive place.
And being able to go from, you know, the slaves to the people
who are leaving with all of their captures, rehash and all
the money that they have, I think really was able brought
them to a place where now they were able to really see God in
the midbad and and go forward and get out of a mentality of
slavery. I don't know.
I'm not. So sure, my first thought was
maybe that Fatim and this whole army said I'll becoming a
nation, like to be a nation that's going to be an order that
going and have a standing in the world.
You need to have what have the means to be able to do so.
So that was my first impression of this.
Like it kind of goes with getting the land.
Once you get the land, you also have to have like financial
means to be able to do stuff, but I'm not really sure.
So it's actually fascinating that you guys said that because
we've cooked in his commentary to Brahot.
So I'm Brahot and Daftet. There's a very interesting
Gamara. There are a few sort of
commentaries or or subtext to the story that I brought there,
and it's very interesting. It seems to indicate there that,
you know, the Jews didn't really want the gold so much a cutters
borough who told Moshe go tell them, even though they just want
to get out and they want to forget out everything that just
happened. I had a promise to averma Vino
and I'm going to keep it and you guys have to go and, and help me
fulfill that promise. And Vera Cook says something and
he basically of didn't totally understand, but he basically
brings the two points that you guys just brought.
And I, I I'm not really sure how he puts them together because he
sort of out, he like toggles back and forth between them.
We're not going to read things inside today, but he basically
brings the two points that you guys said #1 As Rayon correctly
pointed out, part of human dignity is to understand what
property is, what money is to, you know, part of the the way of
cutters brothel set up the world is that we have certain desires
and those desires drive us to certain important things like
that have families to have property.
Those desires can certainly be misused, but they are we can't
say well, because it's dangerous and there could be bad things.
We're not going to we're not going to do it at all.
So it's certainly important to understand that dynamic to
appreciate the role of money and, and, and its role in human
dignity. And that was sort of part one
that we've cooked points out in, in Ayaan Brockholt and Duft
Tech. But the other thing he points
out, and this brings us to Emma's point.
And maybe it's like a half a step back.
You know, the turret tells us a number of times that Ivor Mavino
was very rich. He had to connect a doll.
He had a lot of a lot of property going on.
And why was that important? Wasn't he a holy Sonic who is
hoping, who is only focused on on Ruchnio and spirituality?
So the truth is that we know that Avraminu had basically was
Aceo of a large Cusset empire. There were soup kitchens, there
were hostels, there were all these things going on.
And in order to be CEO of a large empire, you need to have
ACFO. You need to have a bank account.
You to understand how everything is is, is being financed and
being and and being powered in order to be able to do the
Cusset And then the Cusset, which obviously in Avram's case
was also a key reminded and bring people closer to
Akhileshbar, who so we know that's true, but our cook takes
it a step further to Emma's point, which is that Ivan was
not just an individual. He was a a pre foreshadowing of
a national identity. And so if it's just one person,
okay, maybe a person has a little more money, a little less
money. That's that's already not such a
big deal. But if you have a nation, the
nation is critical that a nation has national infrastructure and
is able to support itself into and to be a, an entity that that
wields power. And it's very interesting.
I actually was thinking about this a little bit.
You know, Israel is known in many circles as a startup nation
and there's all this high tech and there's all this great, you
know, innovation going on in Tel Aviv and it's all all amazing.
Fine. So I actually on my podcast, I
got a chance to interview Moise Navone, who is one of the
founding engineers of Mobileye. The, the, the self driving or
the, the, the, the, the car automation technology company,
how you call it? A very well known company, very
successful company. And I asked him this question.
He's also has Sumika and he teaches a lot of Torah and he's
a big Tommy Kakkam. So I asked him, you know, Israel
is known as a startup nation. That's, that's nice.
But like, is that really what it's all about?
Is that why Cutter Bra, who chose our CNA to become the
startup nation? We're supposed to be the nation
of ethics and of values and of morality and, and more.
He's in addition to being a Robin Tommy Kakkam, he also
applies all of his different knowledge bases in order to be a
leader in AI ethics discussions. And he testifies in the Knesset.
So, you know, thinking about the relationship between the ethics
discussion and the innovation discussion, I asked him, you
know, which one's more important to us as a nation?
Obviously the morality and the ethics and why are people so
excited and obsessed over the technology part of it?
And he basically answered along the same lines that we're
saying. He said, you know, if we were
just this never country poor, no technology, nothing to offer
other people and we stand up to the world and say we have ethics
and we have morals and we're going to help the world through
this tricky age of AI. No one would listen and no one
would care. Because we have the prowess and
the technology and the the seat of the table that the the sort
of the physical innovation, the non spiritual innovation that we
have that allows us to then use that.
Platform. To be a voice ethics and
morality. So I think all those things come
together that the money and the rahuska Dal that Benesch all
took out was part of a their individual dignities as humans
coming out of slavery to freedom, but also a
foreshadowing of their national identity that needs power, that
needs relevance. These are all things that are
cooked sort of bundles together in his parish on in a on Brahos
and daft tech. That was sort of the first year
that I wanted to discuss with you guys and so.
Very much you see this here as this just being the way the
Benesch Sido could move forward, but isn't Isn't it possible that
they were able to get there without this?
They're like, why weren't the Makot and you tell me tonight,
I'm sure why wasn't that enough? Why they also need this
additional push. So I think as.
You, I think you're alluding to the question is that the Makot
and all those things were part of the spiritual level and the
spiritual foundations of Amitri. And those are certainly the most
important. But there are, as we are talking
about, there are other aspects that we also have to keep in
mind, which is the, you know, the full person.
And we say that, you know, Lola Adam, Erasia Mayan, there has to
be an Adam who's Erasia Mayim and the Erasia Mayim part is
when we see these amazing miracles and receive the Torah
and the values and the, and the, and Muna and the faith that we
received on that night. But there's also the Adam
passage of it and we know that a slave who is being, you know,
tortured and that doesn't have his own dignity and doesn't have
his own decision making process, he's not really a person.
So you have to be an Adam. And also at Eurasia Mine really
beautiful. Point, thank you so much for
sharing that and I'm curious, bringing it back to us a little
bit. I know you spoke about, you
know, what that means for us today on a national level.
What does this mean for us on a personal level?
Like what does it mean for us to be, you know, stuck in its yummy
time today? What does it mean for our
personal, you know, money and dignity to be able to pull us
out, right? Like on a national level, that's
phenomenal. But how do we bring that to our
personal lives every day? Right, It's interesting because
especially, you know, today we have overall amazing wealth in
our communities and it's a great bracha from a cutters bar who So
it's not just the fact that we have a nation and we have to be
responsible as a nation to, to, to do a lot of things.
And we need the money too, but also individuals, many people
have been blessed with with this tremendous wealth.
And that wealth, you know, leads us to responsibility.
And it also has this dangers. And there are people who are
addicted to money, the people who are addicted to gambling,
which just has to do with addiction to money.
So it's certainly something that we have to be very weary of that
the the blessings of wealth are amazing and their potential.
And a person can do such wonderful things and a person
can also do such terrible things when they're so obsessed with
their money. I'll just point out, you know, I
when I started in yeshiva, I learned the misate Shireen and
he says there a para K based on the mission of Para Kiabos, that
a person should really try to work minimally and and gain
whatever, you know, earn whatever minimal earnings he can
to sustain himself. And then he should use all the
leftover time and energy for Torah and for mitzvos, which is
a an interesting idea. But there's actually a mission
of Brewer in HUD Bay's. I don't remember the exact same
and it might be around the race. I'm sorry, I don't have it in
front of me right now. It's after he'll hold Minka and
he says says everything should be the shame shamayim.
And he says even a rich person who has all the money that he
needs, but he wants to do more business in order to give more
stock up. He wants to do more business to
create more jobs and employment for other people.
So he's myself shame shamayim and that is certainly something
which is kosher and normal. So it's not just about making
enough money just to get by. If a person has the ability to
use money wisely and use it well and wield that in a healthy way
to serve the Jewish people, to serve.
There's certainly place for a person who says I have plenty of
money for myself, but I want more to do more good with that
money. Should we go to the next
chapter? Yes.
What is? What is Yeah I What is the next
chapter? So the second idea and the
Gamaran Sanhedrin points out that there's a halaha in in
Seifer Dvar that when you let out a slave, you're supposed to
give him Hanakai, supposed to give him some sort of
remuneration, an exit bonus of some sort as Akar Tatov and and
gratitude for the fact that he helped you grow your, your,
you're in business and your industry.
And he was a slave contributing to that.
So when you let him go, you're supposed to give him you're
supposed to give him something to to take with him.
So the Gamaran Hedren says that this money is similar to that
halakhah of Hanukkah. Slave goes free.
He's supposed to get some value from the slave owner that is
releasing him. Now, I think this is very
interesting on a number of levels.
First of all, we know that Avraham Avinu, we're going back
to Avram, who's promised that we've been at Tareem was a man
of great justice. Because brah, who says I'm going
to choose you? Because I know that you are
going to teach your children and your grandchildren and the
nation after you to be people who do Stockholm spot people who
do justice. So it's interesting to note that
this is an act of justice, not just in right.
This is the second idea that this taking of the silver and
gold is not necessarily about becoming wealthy or becoming
rich. It's about going to to your
previous master and demanding an act of justice because a slave
can get into the mentality of I'm a slave.
I don't deserve anything. I don't demand anything, but a
Jew has to demand justice. Now it's also interesting to
note that I, I, I, I would guess that the hundreds of years of
slave labor don't really correlate to the amount of money
that they were able to stuff into their one suitcase to get
out in San Antonio. That's, that's my, my, my guess.
But I think that, you know, similar to what we, we, you
know, the, the Jewish people experienced in the 50s with the,
with the whole deliberation about receiving money from
Germany for the Holocaust. So it's not really about the
money that the money's going to cover the cost and we're going
to break even. It's about a symbolic act to say
we are getting closure or the sacks also rights was very
beautifully in this context as well that we are coming to a
circle, we are going to demand justice.
And the way of sack says it is that in order to be free you
have to let go of hate. In order to let go of hate you
need that symbolic act of justice.
So I think that's another important idea.
Obviously in Israel today, the last couple years, the justice
system has been at the heart of a very, very fierce debate.
I'm knocking into that now. But I think as a general
principle, we know that, you know, denim and courts are
something even been enough are obligated to do because it's
certainly important for society to have justice and an
individual level also to be able to demand justice, understand
justice and be involved in justice as a first act during
the statement time. So that's another idea that we
see based on the Kamarasun hedge, that this was an act of
demanding a certain legally required payment.
And even if it wasn't really getting them rich, it wasn't
really helping them. Again, it may or may not.
But putting aside whatever actual benefit they got from the
money afterwards, the act of going to their to their to their
masters and demanding some level of closure and some level of
justice was very important. And maybe that's why Ivor
Mavino, the man of justice, was being would be this idea.
I thought about it a couple times.
And this year I noticed that it actually works perfectly with
the same pasta because the pasta says the guy meant to go.
I sure. Yeah.
Vodu Don anohi I'm going to judge them.
So that also connects the two parts of the public because the
the, the judgement that the Mitchum received, the NASA
weren't just passive spectators at the justice, they were now
active parts of the justice by going to demand the payment that
they legally deserved. That's a really cool point about
being active and I think that's something I never realized
before, so I like that a lot. I also think this idea ties
into, right, we were tying the whole idea into the Eva debris
and them getting money, tying us back to the idea of the Eva
debris, right? We're saying that he gets paid
when he's leaving. And I heard that the idea behind
that was also so that they don't do it again, right?
Because a lot of times, what is the reason that someone gets
sold in slavery? Like if you do a crime and you
don't have the means to pay it back, then you end up selling
yourself to slavery and whatever.
So you're giving them the financial means to make
something better of themselves. And I think that also ties back
to our first point that we were saying about of Kook that but I
sell we're getting the financial means to make some things of
them to make something of themselves in the same way that
the slave is getting the financial means to make
something of himself, right. I think it's a.
Very good point. And also maybe you could further
connected to ideas by saying, you know what we spoke about the
responsibility of wealth. So having justice systems and
having the morality involved as a backbone to go with that
wealth helps you navigate the various to go with the various
complexities of an economy and of a business world.
So these things are certainly layers of of connection between
or cooks idea and this one and I appreciate you sharing that one
as well. And this also this idea that you
bring also, you know, really solves a lot of the theological
problems that a lot of people have with this, with this part
of of the text. And I think that very much
explains it. But I'm curious if you think
that this was, you know, something that was essential to
their to them leaving or if this was a side point, like was this,
you know, the catalyst of this an important part to show that
this is, as you were saying, like shows us what we need about
our legal system or just side point and, you know, grounding
this in halacha as well. Yeah, it's a good question.
I, I, I, I don't have a great answer because the story of
Pasach is so deep and so complex and there's so many angles to it
and layers to it. So I guess it's, it's hard for
me to sort of define what is the core and what is the periphery.
It's all part of one very rich and beautiful system that that
all comes together beautiful. And you're point #3 OK.
Point #3 so this one maybe doesn't connect back to Ivorma
venue so much. Maybe you guys will help me
connect it. But there is a a very beautiful
Josh of the run. It's drish number you'd alef his
11th Josh up and he has some other questions on this whole.
So yeah. So first of all, you know, it's
not so clear from the Sookie and where they borrowing and they
ran away with it. Did they ask for to keep that
sort of one question? But then he asked a deeper
question, a very penetrating question in my mind.
Imagine you're a Jew, you're a slave in mid time.
You've been working, suffering terrible conditions for your
whole life, your father's whole life, your grandfather's whole
life already a couple generations.
And then there's a guy he shows up one day and he says, hey
guys, my name is Michelle Abenu Kazpak who sent me to take you
out of mid time. So I'll ask you guys.
Emma Raymond, you're a Jew. This guy comes, what would you
expect? Let's say you're a a believing
Jew and you remember the promise that I'm going to take you out.
So what would you expect the next few days and weeks to look
like? Assuming you believe this guy
and he's telling you the absolute truth that he was sent
by a Karish Baraku to take the nature out of me trying.
What happened right away? And Emma what?
Do you think would happen if Paro started to make any trouble
to this guy who claims to be actually a Karish Baraku God
would? Blast him.
Right, exactly. That's exactly what I would,
what I would. But I would also expect, I would
expect this guy to go to power and say we're leaving now.
And if anything you say to the contrary, I'm going to kill all
of you with some nuclear bomb that will completely smash you
and everything, any remnant of your society, right, Because bro
could do that. He's calling a hole and and so
you're a Jew and you believe that this guy Moshe Rebein with
Semakars Barhoop. And then what do you see?
You know, we're going to do this maca and then we're going to ask
again to go for a couple more days.
And then we're going to bring our wives or we're going to
bring our children and we're going to bring this Zeva and
then we'll be another maca. It really is eerily reminiscent
of, you know, it's, it's, it's crazy to think about.
But last year, PESA, we were in this this this cycle of, you
know, we're going to negotiate and we're going to have this
deal. We're going to have that deal.
And they are serious and we are not serious and this president
is pressuring and these whole things.
They seem like, you know, petty if we're really being guided by
because there's who and his all powerful hand.
Would you really expect such a long laborious process of
negotiation and this and that. So that's the the Ron's deeper
question to this whole up figure.
And his answer is that the Rehouskadol was actually a key
part because the Rehouskadol was what baited the midstream to
come to Kratz because they were, according to Khazal and all the
communicate this as well, because they were upset that
Benazzhell took their money and they were going to bring it back
and they ran away with it. That's one of the things that
power did to motivate his troops after all they had been through
to come with him to try to catch up and try to bring Benazzhell
back. That's what brought them to the
ambush at Krattyamsu and the amazing Kedusha, the amazing
revelation of a Karashbar whose presence that you know, the even
the simple maid servant saw a Karashbar whose presence as
clearly as if it were the Navya Kheskal and that tremendous Kish
Hashem was all due to this whole entire process where the
midstream thought, power thought and and some of this from
thought. It's not for real.
It can't be real. I can't be at this real like
comes bro who he's maybe in their world view of God, which
is, you know, where we're fighting with and we should
really keep up with. So if I comes bro who I just
taking major out right away, we would not have Kratam souf.
And according to the Ron, the entire climax of the story is
the kratom that we had at kratom souf.
And the money was the way that we were able to bait the midterm
into coming out and chasing after us because they thought
that was their money and that we were actually playing games with
them. We were being small minded.
We're being cheap, we're being liars or whatever it may be.
That was part of the the plot that brought us to the Kratom
souf and the Ron finishes off very beautifully.
It's really almost like emotional to to read it.
I think I have the quote here. He says.
If you don't mind, I'll read just a couple lines here.
And we see in the Gulami time should be OTA it at SMO in the
exact same time Shaita Gu la BA euro in maximum nigali at the
same night the Brazil we're leaving the Tri M in calls that
euro in parallel Mamacim sham Sibaku atom, the FLP team.
How you Neil M la Amoda Sibatam? He says.
Even been Israel, the night they were leaving the triam, after
all this had happened to them, they were leaving the time, it
was the night of the right, the famous night that we are going
to celebrate in just a few days. Been Israel had a level of doubt
and a level of confusion. And then here comes a really
beautiful line says the run writing 800 years ago call
chicane anagnu all the more so us Sherawish and yes, Halim, we
should think of ourselves as idiots.
You tear the Gulati Da as it comes to understanding the
process of the future Gula and I think that is such a true
statement in the runs time and certainly in today's time, as I
indicated before and that was already last year Pasa.
Fast forward to this year, Pasa, all that's going on and all the
complexities and all the challenges and people running to
shelters and no one knows what's going to be with the war and
this and that along with tremendous miracles.
So it's normal and OK to realize that along with tremendous
brachot, tremendous Kita shacham, tremendous victories,
there can also be doubts and confusions because we don't know
what Akash Brachu has in store for us.
We saw it last time around with the hostages.
There's nothing. We'll see it now, this time with
the war on Iran and possession. We'll see it with the entire
Talika, the Gula, that even things that seem so strange and
so challenging and so puzzling and so painful and so and so
awful. We've all been through so much.
We've all, you know, lost such precious people around us,
friends, family members, all these things, you know, all the
pain is so confusing and so challenging.
But in the end of the day, when everything is clarity, we will
look back as the gamar. And Sakhim says that even, you
know, nowadays we have a a bifurcation of certain things we
say the bracha of Atova MIT and certain things we say the bracha
of the Anhimet. Because in our world we see them
as two different ways of our cars, bracha acting toward us,
the gamar. And Sakhim says.
That lati level we're gonna have complete clarity and realize how
everything is a Tovami team and so will be sofa to see that
being a menu. Amen.
And really what I think a beautiful way to end off that,
you know, is always trying to bring this back into Gila and
ask that question. But I didn't even have to do
that this week. And I think that there's so much
that we're all thinking about, especially you and the rest of
AMI Sadeel, who's living in Editsville right now with all
the struggles. And it's very easy for us to
stay in America, like, oh, look at all these miracles.
Look at what they're doing to Iran while we're sitting here.
But for the people who are running to shelters in the
middle of the night, it's, it's much harder to say.
And looking at this Iran, looking to see how it's right.
I'm in this small point almost of leaving with Rehash Kadal
what that shows us about how we should be living today, how we
we should be thinking about Gayla and thinking about our
relationship with Hashem and the future give a lot of that comes.
So thank you so much for coming on sharing these beautiful three
points with us that will for sure uplift all of our seders
and uplift the way we think about money the way we think
about every single point that occurred in it's time as we're
living by Hayom Hazeh Shabbat Shalom.
Thank you for. Coming.
Thank you guys for. Having me.