1 00:00:00,040 --> 00:00:02,960 So Stark Tank listeners have been treated to four incredible 2 00:00:02,960 --> 00:00:04,360 episodes, which are by David Lappin. 3 00:00:04,600 --> 00:00:07,080 And for the episode that's going to be dropping on air of Tish 4 00:00:07,080 --> 00:00:09,680 Above Monday, the day before Tish Above, we're actually gonna 5 00:00:09,680 --> 00:00:12,680 do one more a bonus episode. And the reason why is because in 6 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,000 one of our offline conversations, I was reflecting 7 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:17,960 with where I lap in on the fact that both of us have experienced 8 00:00:17,960 --> 00:00:20,640 a loss over the last month and 1/2 or so. 9 00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:23,640 I mentioned on this podcast before that I lost my 10 00:00:23,640 --> 00:00:26,200 brother-in-law, Ali Moshe Zimbalist Hashemi com demo in 11 00:00:26,320 --> 00:00:28,640 Gaza and every lap. And maybe you can share with our 12 00:00:28,640 --> 00:00:30,680 listeners the loss that you've experienced in your family. 13 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:34,360 Thanks, Yakov. Yes, the very sad and tragic 14 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:39,040 niece, my brother's daughter, who passed away after a few 15 00:00:39,040 --> 00:00:43,800 years of struggling with cancer, left a large family, little 16 00:00:43,800 --> 00:00:48,080 children, just a wonderful human being, a wonderful, wonderful 17 00:00:48,080 --> 00:00:50,920 woman, wonderful family. And it's been painful for the 18 00:00:51,040 --> 00:00:54,880 for all of us and for the family, immediate family most of 19 00:00:54,880 --> 00:00:56,880 all. So yes, dealing with loss and 20 00:00:56,880 --> 00:00:59,360 and of course in in it's a Charlotte at the moment. 21 00:01:00,480 --> 00:01:03,400 We're all touched by loss every day. 22 00:01:03,400 --> 00:01:05,560 You've been touched very, very closely. 23 00:01:06,960 --> 00:01:11,040 But but we've all got friends and friends of friends and, and 24 00:01:11,040 --> 00:01:14,280 relatives who are experiencing loss. 25 00:01:15,200 --> 00:01:19,280 So, so it's something big. This Shivos of the Tamas was 26 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,360 different for me from, from anyone before. 27 00:01:22,520 --> 00:01:25,120 The Slykhas were different. The, the feeling of it was 28 00:01:25,120 --> 00:01:30,040 different, the, the feeling of walls being breached and what 29 00:01:30,040 --> 00:01:34,520 happened after that at the time of the Kurban, our walls being 30 00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:38,760 breached and not only our physical wall and around Gaza, 31 00:01:38,760 --> 00:01:43,600 but but the whole wall of, of protection of the Jewish people 32 00:01:43,600 --> 00:01:47,280 that that has been breached by horrible anti-Semitism and what 33 00:01:47,280 --> 00:01:51,400 and what that feels like. So, so the Shiva Sabatamis, it 34 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:55,640 caught me by surprise really how deeply emotive it was for me 35 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,640 and, and therefore the three weeks and, and, and and Tish 36 00:01:59,640 --> 00:02:02,400 above all together. And I think that dealing with 37 00:02:02,400 --> 00:02:05,920 loss, understanding loss, understanding hardship is 38 00:02:05,920 --> 00:02:09,400 something that is important not only in the three weeks, just 39 00:02:09,400 --> 00:02:12,160 just part of our lives. Yeah. 40 00:02:12,160 --> 00:02:17,080 And we had two interesting offline conversations and the 41 00:02:17,080 --> 00:02:20,000 first one is actually nothing to really do with our broader 42 00:02:20,000 --> 00:02:22,360 conversations about work and being a Bentora and a career. 43 00:02:22,520 --> 00:02:23,960 The second one actually brings it closer. 44 00:02:23,960 --> 00:02:26,520 So we're going to share some of these ideas for our listeners as 45 00:02:26,520 --> 00:02:27,960 well. So what I had shared with you 46 00:02:28,320 --> 00:02:31,560 was the fact that the Ramban in Parshas Bhaira, when he talks 47 00:02:31,560 --> 00:02:35,280 about the misayon of Avraham, he has a great line where he writes 48 00:02:35,440 --> 00:02:38,320 person who's doing the the the God who is trying the human 49 00:02:38,600 --> 00:02:43,400 Yitzhabebo lahot sihadavar minhaka al apoel lihiot lo 50 00:02:43,400 --> 00:02:46,600 saharma setov lo sahar lave tov bilvat. 51 00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:49,720 So human beings oftentimes have a lave tov, they have pent up 52 00:02:49,880 --> 00:02:52,760 potential, but oftentimes it's not brought out. 53 00:02:52,960 --> 00:02:55,200 And then he's silent as a Karishbar whose way of showing 54 00:02:55,200 --> 00:02:57,920 his love to Sadiq Imrama. The Ramban goes on in the next 55 00:02:57,920 --> 00:03:01,320 few lines to show how much he loves them and to allow them to 56 00:03:01,360 --> 00:03:03,880 realize that potential. So with the obvious caveat that 57 00:03:03,880 --> 00:03:06,840 we have no idea why Karishbar, who brings these awful tragedies 58 00:03:06,840 --> 00:03:09,600 on us, but the Ramban is giving us at least one angle and one 59 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,160 insight, which says that it's meant to allow us to realize 60 00:03:14,160 --> 00:03:17,040 potential that we didn't realize we weren't able to actually 61 00:03:17,040 --> 00:03:20,120 actualize and and bring out to the actual world around us. 62 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:24,280 And I was thinking a lot about this line, reflecting on, you 63 00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:26,120 know, the reactions of some of the family members and the 64 00:03:26,120 --> 00:03:28,920 people around and really noticing them grow up in a very, 65 00:03:28,920 --> 00:03:31,800 very impressive way throughout the tragedy that we experienced 66 00:03:31,800 --> 00:03:34,520 in our family. And they really drove home their 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:37,240 own bonds line, which is that it really allowed a lot of people 68 00:03:37,240 --> 00:03:40,320 to express some very, very impressive sights to them that I 69 00:03:40,320 --> 00:03:42,080 had never seen before. Even though they're very close 70 00:03:42,320 --> 00:03:44,960 friends and family members, I had never seen that and was only 71 00:03:44,960 --> 00:03:46,440 able to be brought out through the. 72 00:03:46,440 --> 00:03:49,240 And the other thing that it reminded me of was the line that 73 00:03:49,240 --> 00:03:52,120 I believe is attributed to Michelangelo where he said that 74 00:03:52,120 --> 00:03:55,160 the key to being a great sculptor is seeing the sculpture 75 00:03:55,160 --> 00:03:58,640 within the block beforehand. And the sculptor is just meant 76 00:03:58,640 --> 00:04:00,960 to discover that he's not creating something new. 77 00:04:01,080 --> 00:04:05,080 It's all there inside, but he is able to chip away and uncover 78 00:04:05,080 --> 00:04:07,400 that. And that imagery really hit home 79 00:04:07,400 --> 00:04:10,640 because the process that we've gone through is one that I 80 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:12,680 wouldn't wish on anyone. It's awful, it's terrible, it's 81 00:04:12,680 --> 00:04:14,880 tragic. The emotions, the sadness, the 82 00:04:15,120 --> 00:04:18,240 the tears is really terrible. But in the end of the day, when 83 00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:19,760 you come out is something very, very beautiful. 84 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:22,960 So I think about that, that imagery of, you know, a nail and 85 00:04:22,960 --> 00:04:25,440 a hammer chipping away at a block is obviously very 86 00:04:25,440 --> 00:04:27,360 uncomfortable for the block, but you end up with something very 87 00:04:27,360 --> 00:04:29,680 beautiful in the end. So I relap and I share this with 88 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:31,360 you and you had some very interesting Mara Macombos and 89 00:04:31,400 --> 00:04:33,720 Kazel that reflect a very similar idea as well. 90 00:04:33,720 --> 00:04:38,840 Yes, I the the idea of Minakok and La Paul is so important 91 00:04:38,840 --> 00:04:41,160 because we all have good intentions. 92 00:04:41,960 --> 00:04:44,960 It's not just what I always used to understand that Ramban just 93 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:48,560 it's an opportunity to test to what extent you really mean it, 94 00:04:48,560 --> 00:04:50,160 to what extent it's really important to you. 95 00:04:50,560 --> 00:04:52,120 But it, it's so much more than that. 96 00:04:52,120 --> 00:04:56,120 It it's, it's very much like that, that that Jimmy example 97 00:04:56,120 --> 00:05:00,920 that I've that I've given that it's only when you resist 98 00:05:00,920 --> 00:05:03,560 gravity that you develop strength. 99 00:05:03,560 --> 00:05:05,840 So the NACE is not, is not a test. 100 00:05:06,360 --> 00:05:10,440 The NACE is the method of trans of converting potential into 101 00:05:10,440 --> 00:05:12,680 actual. It's not just testing whether 102 00:05:12,680 --> 00:05:16,080 your potential is really there and what you, what you're able 103 00:05:16,080 --> 00:05:18,360 to do. It actually is the the method. 104 00:05:18,360 --> 00:05:21,200 And when you go to the gym and you lift those weights, it's not 105 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:23,480 testing whether you're serious about exercising. 106 00:05:23,680 --> 00:05:25,240 It's actually building your strength. 107 00:05:25,720 --> 00:05:29,000 And, and we saw that what you've seen in your immediate family, 108 00:05:29,280 --> 00:05:33,080 we saw nationally, didn't we, after October the 7th, where we 109 00:05:33,080 --> 00:05:36,800 saw a nation that was so fractured that, that was on the, 110 00:05:36,960 --> 00:05:40,480 on the edge of implosion. And we just saw it in, in 111 00:05:40,480 --> 00:05:44,400 minutes, come together heroically and, and achieve A 112 00:05:44,400 --> 00:05:49,680 level of, of unitedness, of, of oneness, even a level of, of 113 00:05:49,680 --> 00:05:53,480 emunah and be token that was far beyond anything it had had in, 114 00:05:53,480 --> 00:05:56,480 in recent times. And, and it's just tragic that 115 00:05:56,480 --> 00:05:58,840 we need an October the 7th to do that. 116 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:03,840 It's tragic that we need loss and hardship to, to bring that 117 00:06:03,840 --> 00:06:06,480 craft into power, but that is life. 118 00:06:06,560 --> 00:06:09,000 It's, it's not even about tragedy. 119 00:06:09,000 --> 00:06:13,320 If we look at it and, and say that is life managing the 120 00:06:13,320 --> 00:06:16,480 friction of life and, and overcoming it. 121 00:06:17,040 --> 00:06:20,480 That is what life is. Life is that the overcoming that 122 00:06:20,480 --> 00:06:23,360 struggle and the fulfillment that comes from overcoming it. 123 00:06:23,680 --> 00:06:26,160 That sense of accomplishment that comes overcomes from 124 00:06:26,160 --> 00:06:28,200 overcoming it. A psychologist who recently 125 00:06:28,200 --> 00:06:30,200 started talking about the importance of grit. 126 00:06:31,160 --> 00:06:34,720 Just that determination that that desire to the, the 127 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:37,800 fulfillment 1 gets from seeing something through to the end, as 128 00:06:37,800 --> 00:06:40,320 hard as that is, and overcoming that, particularly in our 129 00:06:40,320 --> 00:06:44,320 society, which has become so convenience focused, so comfort 130 00:06:44,320 --> 00:06:46,640 focused, so entertainment focused. 131 00:06:47,120 --> 00:06:50,120 And, and, and that's not life. Those are all escapes from life. 132 00:06:50,640 --> 00:06:53,360 And, and the idea that I mentioned in a, in a medicine 133 00:06:53,360 --> 00:06:56,640 Pasha's hookahs, the, the biggest hawk of all hawk is 134 00:06:56,640 --> 00:06:59,920 something which doesn't seem to have a rational explanation that 135 00:06:59,920 --> 00:07:05,120 the biggest hawk of all is, is Sadiq Viralo and I, and I guess 136 00:07:05,120 --> 00:07:07,360 Russia Batovila as well. But just let's focus on Saadiq 137 00:07:07,360 --> 00:07:10,200 Viralo. And that's the, the, the focus 138 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,200 of, of Saifur Iyev. And according to Khazal, Saifur 139 00:07:14,200 --> 00:07:17,680 Iyev was, was written by Moshe, according to some as according 140 00:07:17,680 --> 00:07:20,440 to some view. So Moshe Rabaenu himself finds 141 00:07:20,440 --> 00:07:25,760 it necessary to explore Saadiq Viralo through the experience 142 00:07:25,760 --> 00:07:29,440 of, of Iyev, because at the end of it, it's a hoax. 143 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:31,800 It, it's something that that Hashem does. 144 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:34,600 And Hok doesn't mean an irrational law. 145 00:07:34,600 --> 00:07:38,240 Hok is like a law of nature. It's it's kakuk into the into 146 00:07:38,240 --> 00:07:40,600 the world. It's the way the world works. 147 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,720 The word Sadiq, Viralo is part of the way the world works 148 00:07:43,720 --> 00:07:47,440 because by, it's Sadiq, by a righteous work person having to 149 00:07:47,440 --> 00:07:52,440 grapple with hardship that grows his sitkus, that takes his, his 150 00:07:52,440 --> 00:07:55,800 piety and converts it from potential into, into actual. 151 00:07:56,360 --> 00:07:59,960 And that very word of hukka cacti, Gazzara, gazzarati vende 152 00:07:59,960 --> 00:08:02,960 karachutlahara. Because I'll say, I've, I've 153 00:08:03,960 --> 00:08:08,240 made this law, I've legislated this gazzara and you have no 154 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,200 permission to question it because it's an inherent law of 155 00:08:12,200 --> 00:08:13,960 nature. You don't question gravity. 156 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,520 You don't question the, the, the, the, the laws of, of, of 157 00:08:17,520 --> 00:08:19,480 nature, because that's how the world is built. 158 00:08:19,720 --> 00:08:22,680 This too is one of the laws with which the world is built. 159 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:27,560 And those very words support your your illustration because 160 00:08:27,560 --> 00:08:33,640 hokhakti hakika means sculpting, it means chiseling, and gazera 161 00:08:33,640 --> 00:08:36,919 gazzati means cutting. So the metaphor that that came 162 00:08:36,919 --> 00:08:40,600 up to me when I learned the madrish was a sculptor sculpting 163 00:08:40,600 --> 00:08:43,480 a rock as you described, or a tailor cutting a suit of 164 00:08:43,480 --> 00:08:46,840 clothing out of the cloth. And while we look at it always 165 00:08:46,840 --> 00:08:50,960 from the perspective of the customer or the viewer or the OR 166 00:08:50,960 --> 00:08:54,320 the tailor or the sculptor, what is it like to be the rock? 167 00:08:54,560 --> 00:08:56,560 What is it like to be the the cloth? 168 00:08:56,960 --> 00:09:00,320 And to realize how much loss, how much has to be chipped away 169 00:09:01,680 --> 00:09:04,760 from that rock? Because as Michelangelo said, 170 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:07,000 every block of stone has a statue inside it. 171 00:09:07,000 --> 00:09:09,000 It's the task of the sculpture to discover it. 172 00:09:09,360 --> 00:09:11,680 Every one of us has greatness inside us. 173 00:09:12,040 --> 00:09:16,840 It's the job of life to help us discover it by chipping away the 174 00:09:16,840 --> 00:09:19,280 stuff that's blocking it, the stuff that's hiding it. 175 00:09:19,760 --> 00:09:22,640 It's the job of the, of the tailor to cut away the cloth 176 00:09:22,640 --> 00:09:26,800 that you don't need in order for the for the suits to emerge. 177 00:09:27,200 --> 00:09:30,560 And in life, there's just a lot of stuff that we carry with us 178 00:09:30,920 --> 00:09:34,440 that we don't need. But, but losing it is, is sad. 179 00:09:34,440 --> 00:09:36,720 There's, there's an incredible sense of loss. 180 00:09:37,680 --> 00:09:41,680 And, and I always think of the loss of Ghanaian as being 181 00:09:41,680 --> 00:09:47,320 something that embedded in the human psyche, a fear of loss 182 00:09:47,320 --> 00:09:48,920 that is bigger than any other fear. 183 00:09:49,320 --> 00:09:52,320 In fact, if you think of most of the things that people fear, you 184 00:09:52,680 --> 00:09:54,240 can think of it yourself as I do. 185 00:09:54,560 --> 00:09:57,280 If I list all the things I fear most, they're all loss. 186 00:09:57,720 --> 00:10:01,080 Loss of life, loss of love, loss of health, loss of money, loss 187 00:10:01,080 --> 00:10:05,360 of status, loss of home. They're all, they're all about 188 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:07,840 loss. We experience such profound loss 189 00:10:08,120 --> 00:10:11,600 when Adam lost Ganadin that we never want to go there again. 190 00:10:11,600 --> 00:10:13,600 We never want to have that sense of loss again. 191 00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,360 And so we try and avoid loss, even when that loss is positive, 192 00:10:17,360 --> 00:10:20,240 when that loss is going to be good for us and is going and is 193 00:10:20,240 --> 00:10:23,080 going to help us. Of course, we try to avoid loss. 194 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,920 But when we experience it the way the nation has and the way 195 00:10:26,920 --> 00:10:31,040 you personally or or my family has experienced it, just to 196 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:35,320 understand that that's going to unlock and unleash. 197 00:10:35,320 --> 00:10:37,040 And we've seen it in front of our eyes. 198 00:10:37,040 --> 00:10:40,880 We see the statue emerge in people that they themselves 199 00:10:40,880 --> 00:10:43,080 didn't know, that they they had that greatness. 200 00:10:44,160 --> 00:10:47,400 Naftali Bennett, without being political in any way, gave a 201 00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,000 little talk recently that I came across that was very profound. 202 00:10:52,040 --> 00:10:55,600 And he talked about the fact that the 50 years of prosperity 203 00:10:55,600 --> 00:10:59,960 that that followed the Second World War was probably because 204 00:10:59,960 --> 00:11:02,760 of the hardship that that generation went through. 205 00:11:03,760 --> 00:11:07,240 They went to war, they fought, they lost lives, they lost loved 206 00:11:07,240 --> 00:11:10,320 ones. That experience of those five 207 00:11:10,320 --> 00:11:15,360 years of war created a generation that was able to do 208 00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:19,440 what was accomplished over the next 50 or 60 years from 1945 to 209 00:11:19,880 --> 00:11:22,760 to the turn of the century, basically where we had the most 210 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:24,880 unbelievable period of prosperity. 211 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:29,120 And and he suggested that the hardship that Israel and 212 00:11:29,120 --> 00:11:33,000 Israelis are going through at the moment is such that that too 213 00:11:33,000 --> 00:11:36,840 will usher in A50 year period of unbelievable success and and 214 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:38,840 prosperity. Because we're producing the kind 215 00:11:38,840 --> 00:11:41,680 of people unlike what we're seeing in the United States, 216 00:11:41,680 --> 00:11:44,080 where we're seeing people who will do whatever they can to 217 00:11:44,080 --> 00:11:47,760 escape discomfort. We're seeing a nation embrace 218 00:11:47,760 --> 00:11:51,960 discomfort in the highest way possible, helping one another 219 00:11:51,960 --> 00:11:54,560 through the discomfort, comforting one another through 220 00:11:54,560 --> 00:11:58,840 their loss, taking the negative and turning it to to positive. 221 00:11:58,840 --> 00:12:01,560 We're just seeing such unbelievable greatness. 222 00:12:02,000 --> 00:12:05,760 And as we go through the the three weeks and tish above and 223 00:12:05,760 --> 00:12:09,600 we look at what we've lost, it's not just a matter of mourning a 224 00:12:09,600 --> 00:12:12,280 loss of the besamic this that happened thousands of years ago. 225 00:12:12,960 --> 00:12:17,160 It's about reliving feeling the loss and feeling the pain and 226 00:12:17,160 --> 00:12:21,040 using that feeling of loss, using the pain to take us to a 227 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:24,400 new to a new level, to take us somewhere where we couldn't have 228 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:26,920 got if we hadn't experienced the loss in the first place. 229 00:12:28,440 --> 00:12:30,600 Just to put a pin on one of the things that you mentioned, the 230 00:12:30,600 --> 00:12:34,520 imagery of the of the cloth and the tailor and the cutting of a 231 00:12:34,680 --> 00:12:37,480 zera Zera. It's interesting because when 232 00:12:37,480 --> 00:12:40,720 you tell someone that you're cut from a finer cloth, so they 233 00:12:40,720 --> 00:12:43,640 usually think of themselves as like really wearing a really 234 00:12:43,640 --> 00:12:46,000 fancy suit. But you don't realize that that 235 00:12:46,000 --> 00:12:48,640 fancy cloth before it was chopped up by the tailor was not 236 00:12:48,640 --> 00:12:50,480 worth a lot. And now that the tailor has made 237 00:12:50,480 --> 00:12:53,600 it into a fancy suit, it is now. But you need that process of the 238 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:55,400 cutting and not just the viner cloth. 239 00:12:55,400 --> 00:12:57,680 So I think that's really cool. I'm wondering, do you think 240 00:12:57,680 --> 00:12:58,960 there are any expressions of this? 241 00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:02,240 I always like to think of these things in a, in a, as you do in 242 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:04,080 the manconium, you know, thinking about the connection 243 00:13:04,080 --> 00:13:07,040 between the halacha and the Lumdas and the ashkafa in the 244 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,360 halacha savalas. Do you see this expressed, this 245 00:13:09,360 --> 00:13:13,360 idea of avalas being a way of not just wallowing in our pain 246 00:13:13,360 --> 00:13:17,640 and our suffering, but but really using it to to to propel 247 00:13:17,640 --> 00:13:20,520 ourselves forward? So interesting firstly in the 248 00:13:20,520 --> 00:13:24,640 experience of of Avalus and then in the, in the halachas, the 249 00:13:24,640 --> 00:13:28,120 experience of Avellis. I've just found here since since 250 00:13:28,120 --> 00:13:31,560 the war started a totally different experience of Avellis 251 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:35,320 from anything that I experienced in in Kutzlaat overseas. 252 00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,280 I've dreaded going to each beta veil that I've that I've gone to 253 00:13:42,000 --> 00:13:46,680 and come away feeling so uplifted and and inspired, where 254 00:13:46,680 --> 00:13:53,000 the the Avellis is more a celebration of the person who 255 00:13:53,000 --> 00:13:55,960 that person was, what they lived for and what they died for, 256 00:13:56,320 --> 00:13:58,120 whether they're religious or non religious. 257 00:13:58,120 --> 00:14:01,520 I've been to to to as as most of us have is to just a wide 258 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,320 spectrum. And it's the same always that 259 00:14:04,320 --> 00:14:07,400 it, it's almost you come there and it's almost as if it's kind 260 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,200 of like a party. And of course it isn't a party 261 00:14:10,280 --> 00:14:12,760 at all, but it's there's something very meaningful and 262 00:14:12,760 --> 00:14:15,640 very uplifting and very inspiring about it. 263 00:14:15,640 --> 00:14:19,160 So clearly part of the idea of our values is to bring people 264 00:14:19,160 --> 00:14:23,040 together to learn and to experience the loss together. 265 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:27,320 Part of the idea of, of Mishtatev butsaya or basimka is 266 00:14:27,800 --> 00:14:31,960 that I'm not limited only to the joy and the suffering that I 267 00:14:31,960 --> 00:14:35,080 have in my own life. The but that I'm able to share 268 00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:37,720 in the joy and suffering of others and get the benefits of 269 00:14:37,720 --> 00:14:40,440 that. That I, that it's not only my 270 00:14:40,440 --> 00:14:44,160 own losses, but if I can share in the losses of other people, I 271 00:14:44,160 --> 00:14:48,440 can share not only in the terms of, of being there for them, but 272 00:14:48,440 --> 00:14:52,240 also for their loss to be there for me and to help me gain 273 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:54,600 through that experience. And I think in Hilco Savalas, 274 00:14:55,040 --> 00:14:58,920 just the idea of the silence that that when you go to to a 275 00:14:58,920 --> 00:15:03,120 base Oval, you sit silently and unless the Oval wants to talk 276 00:15:03,880 --> 00:15:08,560 because it isn't about you comforting them, it's not. 277 00:15:08,560 --> 00:15:13,120 It's really about you just being there, thinking of the loss and 278 00:15:13,120 --> 00:15:17,600 feeling loss because by feeling it as well, by being mishtatev 279 00:15:17,600 --> 00:15:20,720 in that, in that loss, by sharing and partnering them in 280 00:15:20,720 --> 00:15:22,600 that loss, you get some of it too. 281 00:15:22,600 --> 00:15:25,320 And and we kind of feel the need to have to say something, to 282 00:15:25,320 --> 00:15:28,800 have to talk. No, it's about feeling and, and 283 00:15:28,800 --> 00:15:33,520 to be able to feel loss and stay with it and understand and feel 284 00:15:33,520 --> 00:15:35,240 the growth that comes through that loss. 285 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,840 That's interesting because it touched on saying, which I was 286 00:15:37,840 --> 00:15:39,920 reflecting on during the Shiva, which is that as you mentioned, 287 00:15:39,920 --> 00:15:42,120 the halacha is driven based on a pusk. 288 00:15:42,120 --> 00:15:45,240 I believe it's Nishao, which has hanik Dome that the availus is 289 00:15:45,240 --> 00:15:48,120 a, is an expression ideally of silence and you're not supposed 290 00:15:48,120 --> 00:15:50,400 to be talking. And the Shivaos are so bursting 291 00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:52,000 with energy. And I was just trying to like 292 00:15:52,000 --> 00:15:53,360 figure out like what to make of that. 293 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:54,880 You have any thoughts about that? 294 00:15:55,080 --> 00:15:59,000 I think when the energy bursts out of the Dome, it starts with 295 00:15:59,000 --> 00:16:01,920 silence. And when that silence, you can't 296 00:16:01,920 --> 00:16:04,040 take it anymore. And then the energy comes out. 297 00:16:04,040 --> 00:16:07,720 I think it's a, it's an energy that's rooted in the silence of, 298 00:16:07,760 --> 00:16:10,680 of the pain. And I, and I think it's a, it's 299 00:16:10,680 --> 00:16:12,720 a delicate balance to, to achieve. 300 00:16:13,160 --> 00:16:17,400 But I, I think when that, that, that dynamicism that happens in 301 00:16:17,400 --> 00:16:20,240 the, in the Beethoven is something that comes out of the 302 00:16:20,240 --> 00:16:23,440 feeling of the pain and it doesn't come to try and push the 303 00:16:23,440 --> 00:16:26,840 pain away. It is part of the pain to be 304 00:16:26,840 --> 00:16:31,000 able to to be able to hold at one moment the pain of loss and 305 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,560 the privilege of of life and to be able to feel both at the same 306 00:16:35,560 --> 00:16:37,080 time. To me, that's what you're trying 307 00:16:37,080 --> 00:16:38,160 to capture. Innovators. 308 00:16:38,280 --> 00:16:42,440 One of my thoughts on that issue was going even back, talk to 309 00:16:42,440 --> 00:16:45,320 rasadas before this happened on a more personal level is that I 310 00:16:45,320 --> 00:16:49,720 felt like growing up in such a secure and comfortable and safe 311 00:16:49,720 --> 00:16:52,840 environment, you know, suburban Boston and then Bachemesh and 312 00:16:52,840 --> 00:16:55,880 having my needs taken care of so wonderfully by my wonderful 313 00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:58,240 parents created a situation. Even going back to, you know, 314 00:16:58,240 --> 00:17:01,120 when they had Yoma Shawa as a kid like there was, I was wasn't 315 00:17:01,120 --> 00:17:04,680 able to start wrapping my head around such pain and tragedy and 316 00:17:04,680 --> 00:17:08,640 suffering because of the great personal comfort and safety that 317 00:17:08,640 --> 00:17:11,480 I had grown up with for 29 years before this all happened. 318 00:17:11,720 --> 00:17:14,440 And I even felt that a little bit afterwards, like a certain 319 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:18,200 level of denial because of the fact that I had grown up in such 320 00:17:18,200 --> 00:17:21,760 a secure upbringing. And, and even now I still sort 321 00:17:21,760 --> 00:17:25,040 of feel that true, even though the, the, the pain has really 322 00:17:25,040 --> 00:17:26,480 come to our door. And I certainly felt it. 323 00:17:26,599 --> 00:17:29,600 But on a certain level, I felt that the the comfortable 324 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:32,320 upbringing that I've had has protected me from really 325 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,720 understanding and and absorbing the tragedy that happened. 326 00:17:35,840 --> 00:17:39,400 You talk about it as a privilege and it is a privilege because 327 00:17:39,400 --> 00:17:44,080 not, not everybody has, has that privilege and pain and loss is 328 00:17:44,080 --> 00:17:46,560 not something one needs to chase as, as, as you've also 329 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:48,560 mentioned. But but when it comes and it 330 00:17:48,560 --> 00:17:53,680 does come, we all have have our periods, our times to experience 331 00:17:53,680 --> 00:17:56,600 it. When it, when it does come, the, 332 00:17:56,680 --> 00:17:59,600 the stronger one is and the stronger the one's upbringing 333 00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:02,480 is, the more one is equipped to handle it. 334 00:18:02,480 --> 00:18:04,920 It's, it's not a negative. I think it's a an absolute 335 00:18:04,920 --> 00:18:09,320 positive because loss is so powerful that no matter how much 336 00:18:09,600 --> 00:18:12,280 privilege and comfort you've come from, when it hits, you 337 00:18:12,280 --> 00:18:14,760 feel the pain. OK, there, there are a lot of 338 00:18:14,760 --> 00:18:17,800 potential segues we could do from this back to the business 339 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:19,960 world and the career role, but I'm actually not going to do it. 340 00:18:19,960 --> 00:18:23,160 I think that, you know, coming up on Tish above and with all 341 00:18:23,160 --> 00:18:25,280 that we've gone through, we're going to do one episode of star 342 00:18:25,280 --> 00:18:26,760 tank that goes a little bit off ground. 343 00:18:26,760 --> 00:18:28,560 Then it's my podcast. So we're going to do it the way 344 00:18:28,560 --> 00:18:30,360 I see fit. Think you're my lap. 345 00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,880 And I'll leave it to anyone else who wants to, to think about the 346 00:18:32,880 --> 00:18:35,800 house Lahore and the, and the, and the lessons they can take 347 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:37,240 away to their career if they want to. 348 00:18:37,240 --> 00:18:39,680 But I think it's also important to to, to just take a step back 349 00:18:39,680 --> 00:18:42,520 and say, this is Tish above. It's Tish above that is going to 350 00:18:42,520 --> 00:18:45,720 be like no other as you referred to before and hopefully bezrath 351 00:18:45,720 --> 00:18:48,240 Hashem, we can all find the strength to turn the pain and 352 00:18:48,240 --> 00:18:49,360 channel it into the right direction. 353 00:18:49,440 --> 00:18:49,840 Thank you.