Shalam Alaikum and welcome to Starktake, the podcast about the
challenges and opportunities of being a bentura in the
workforce. There's really only one thing
that you need to know about Doctor Edo Levi.
He makes braces fun. The rest is commentary.
Today we talk about his journey to orthodontistry.
We discuss the key finding joy at work or anywhere and his
Dafyo Me podcast off splaining before we jump in work reminder
that the best way to support stark thing is by subscribing
meeting the faster of you sharing your favorite episode
with a few friends. And now here's this week's
conversation. Doctor Ido Levy.
My name is Jaco Wolf. This is stark thing.
So I tried to get a podcast studio that would allow us to
set up with an orthodontist chair and allow Doctor Ida Levy
to interview me like he normally does with his fingers in my
mouth. But we weren't able to get that
to work. In any case, it's a great honor
to have Doctor Ida Levy, my orthodontist, here with us on
Shark Tank. Welcome and thank you for
joining us. Thank you so much for having me.
I joked with you before about how once I saw all the
incredible rabonim and inspirational figures that I
look up to so much as they started piling up and then you
had a Nobel laureate recently, I knew it was only a matter of
time before I get a phone call, right?
So. You've been an orthodontist for
how many years now? I've been an orthodontist since
2003. I graduated NYU School of
Orthodontics in 2003 and you mentioned you were in my chair.
That's because most of my career I was blessed to work in Ramabeh
Shemesh from 2003 to 2019. In fact, the funny story about
that, I was deciding when we're talk about the decision process,
but the decision came late. And so the decision to move to
Israel was towards the end of the orthodontic school.
So towards the end, so the way the scholastic year works is,
you know, is like, let's say in the fall you go by this, but in
orthodontics. So in the summer that year it
was done and Nephesh, but Nephesh was in its second year.
And I'm a close friend of Rabbi Fast and towards the end of
orthodontics school is when we started thinking where we're
going to be settling down because I've been in school for
so long. I've been in school for many,
many years. Orthodontic school is several
years after dental school. So dental school is 4 years and
then did residency in another three-year program in is usually
the case for specialty. So we were in school forever and
we already had four children and we had just, you know, turned
30. And at the time, to that point,
much like my mother had predicted, I had not yet held a
job. So I was thinking where we would
settle. That was a big part of our
decision now that we're going to make our first opportunity to
make money. And so we decided together that
we should give Israel. And you know, that was always
our dream. And so that was very, very
inspiring moment for us. And we've been inspired by other
people who had come before us. Michael Selesny, Oliver Shalom
bears mentioning somebody who passed away very young but would
have been a much better Stark tank candidate than I am.
And and so we we moved. The funny part of the story, I
suppose, is that the Nefesh Nefesh flight was before
graduation. So I, when I moved, maybe like
half a week before I officially graduated, and then the chairman
of the department called me and he said when I was in Israel.
And he said, you know, you didn't finish the program.
And I said, oh, you're so funny. I pretended like it was a joke.
And then he laughed along with me and sent me my diploma.
So immediately after orthodontic school at NYU, we started living
and working on my beach, which was a great blessing.
But we have to be very serious here for a second, because
you've been doing this for 20 years.
Let's be brutally honest. Who is your favorite patient of
all time? You know, it's very funny that
you ask because you are Aviva Learner's favorite patient.
She was the man. She was the office manager.
My favorite patient was the Homo Zimbalist.
So I have to say, you know, a lot of parents don't pick
favorites. And I have to say, I feel
blessed to really feel real, genuine feelings for my patients
and care about my patients, but I'm not afraid to rank them.
But you were ranked #2 I'm sorry to say.
And that Kama Zimbalist Zozai gives up his ramp #1 But you
married up, so kudos to you. Right, for those listeners who
don't yet know, Nahama Zimbalist is now Nahama Wolf.
She's my wife and and the, you know, the the fusion of us
together creates a super patient of magnitude that Doctor Levy
could never even imagine. So we are very grateful.
And I would always tell the shalt Han around by Shamesh,
including your wife who tried to set me up a number of times,
that I would only go out with girls who went to Doctor Levy
for their braces. That, that, that's very, that's
a very smart strategy. I don't want to disparage
anybody else, but, you know, I, I think the way that you
developed is a real testament to how much you got out of the
experience. So I'm very proud of you.
I'm also very proud of myself that I made it.
You know, most people don't realize what a big solicit is
to, to get to this level of stark tank.
I was starting to tell you that it is almost, well, it's
undoubtedly true that I'm the least qualified person that
you've ever had on this podcast, but it is also undoubtedly true
that I'm the most enthusiastic. Maybe those things correlate,
but I've never been so excited. As I told you, I've been a fan
of yours from when you were young and watching you grow up
and do this very serious thing. I wrote a very serious note to
you because this endeavor that you're doing, that you're trying
watching you navigate life like this and try to help others do
it, it's very inspiring. So I'm really just honored to
and and any opportunity to talk to you is the opportunity that I
welcome. Amazing, amazing.
So let's get into it. You said you started to talk
about a decision, but let's go really go back there.
You started in the place where most great things start in
Shabak, Karan Bhavana and then you ended up going down the
orthodontist route. So may tell us about that what,
what went into that decision? OK, well, a lot of times and I
prepared by listening to start tank.
People think and young people think this in general.
What went into the decision? Like it's a linear thing.
Pros and cons lists are important and that's certainly
true. But at the end of the day, I
feel like you get carried into whatever whatever drives you.
At least in my particular case, I had no idea and I couldn't
even tell you how people have an idea of how they choose their
career path. So what happened specifically to
me? You mentioned Karen Biobna was I
met my wife because she was a sister of a good friend of mine,
David Dickstein. And so I was very young and I
and I, as I mentioned, my mother had mentioned that not only did
I have no aspirations of employment, I had no prospects
of employment at any point. That's what she was trying to
explain to my in laws because we were so young and it was
frightening to a certain extent for sure.
So I asked my Rebbe at the time, I read Blockman what to do.
And I think that this is something that's really
important and this is something that you speak about all the
time. Obviously, consulting with
people, going around to people and seeing how they're actually
living their lives in the professions that you're
considering. These are the things that I
would recommend. My father passed away also when
I was 19. This was very destabilizing,
obviously. But specifically with regards to
your question, as far as career, right, He passed away very
suddenly. And he had been a neurologist,
OK? So I just assumed I went at 19
from always assuming that I would be a neurologist and work
with my dad because why not? I never really gave it thought
or really cared specifically so much about what I would do.
I figured I would just find joy in whatever I did.
And then when he passed away that was immediately vanished.
I realized I didn't care at all about medical school.
And so now the whole world was open to me.
I thought I was going to be maybe a rabbi because I was in
yeshiva and I was inspired. Or maybe I'd be like a therapist
rabbi, like like a rabbi wine rib in Baltimore, something like
that. You know, that's, that's what I
that's the direction I was going to.
Now my mother happens to be so long as the therapist.
So I wanted to be a therapist rabbi.
In that moment. My mother sat me down.
She said therapy, it's not for you, you know, one patient at a
time every 45 minutes. It's it's a nice idea, but it's
not for a Jewish boy like you. So that's what my mother told
me. And then I spoke to her
blockman. He said, Finnock and her bonus,
that's not for you. In retrospect, I guess everybody
who I asked, for whatever reason, thought that what they
were doing I wouldn't be good at.
So we're at my blockman. He said a very interesting
thing, and I think that might be instructive to some of your
listeners. He said the page stinks and it's
a difficult life. And I was not expecting that to
hear from my Rebbe. It was just real talk, you know?
And, and then he said, it's the kind of thing where if you want
to do it, it has to be the kind of thing where I tell you all
the reasons not to do it and discourage you in every possible
way. But you feel it in your bones so
passionately that you say, no, I'm still going to do it.
And so I think that speaks to how passionate, how passion can
drive you. And if the passion drives you,
then that's the right thing for you.
Well, in my particular case, I didn't have any specific
direction at that time. And so I asked him, well, how am
I supposed to get married? I met this girl, and he said,
we'll bring her here. So we went to Mclaughlin's
apartment, and this was before we even got engaged, I think.
But we were serious. And he kicked me out of the
room, and he met with her. And then he said, all right,
bring him back in. And he said, OK, just do
whatever she says. And so I think that can be
instructive, too, because marrying Stark is a very, very
important thing. And like I said, I congratulated
you for doing that. So if you were to ask me, this
obviously doesn't apply to everybody, but in my particular
case, the reason Atara and I when we were talking was leaning
towards this dentistry had nothing to do with the love for
teeth, although I do, I feel very blessed to have developed a
real passion for what I do. But I'm always about the people
anyway. So it gave me an opportunity to
and and you were kind enough to say that we've had
conversations, but most of them have been one sided because my
hands were in your mouth and that doesn't bother me either.
But the idea was to be able to go to Israel because at the time
the reputation was, well, it's dentistry is good in Israel.
And so after we graduated dental school, then I started realizing
my area of interest, and then we decided orthodontics together.
And then it went back to the original plan of Israel.
And the fact that we were able to carry out a plan that even
before we got married, we were able to do, is not something
that everybody can necessarily pull off.
And you do have to be emotionally flexible, I would
imagine, and we had to be very flexible in other areas,
including moving to Israel and back and hopefully back again.
But the short answer to your question was Ataras idea of
going into dentistry has turned out to be I think a great idea.
And I want to pick up on two of the things that you mentioned
there and all very interesting things.
One is that you said that specifically before your father
died, you were able to, you assume you're gonna be able to
find joy in everything that you did.
And then you also mentioned the fact that it's always about the
people and being with people is always great.
You know, Lo tove Adam Levado is always a big curse.
So according to that line of thinking, and I think about this
a lot, also, if you have a certain temperament, you could
find joy in meaning and happiness in any profession.
Whereas some people think, well I need to be an XY and Z
profession in order to find meaning it to find happiness.
I think you're bringing up a stellar point.
You know, Stark Tank is designed to help people make decisions in
life, and the decisions aren't necessarily always what's going
to define you. The way you deal with those
decisions and the consequences. Sometimes unintended
consequences might be how they define you.
I actually prepared to photography of Yaakov that has
to do exactly with that point. Yeah.
I gave this a lot of thought.
It's Noah, so it's going to be a little outdated, but this is
Sunday, so we're OK. You sent out something to me
about Parsha Snarf, that event that basically amounted to
putting in the work, right? Noah built the Teva.
The Parsha Snarf says that he was kind of caught off guard
when the rain came, right? Mcnay Mayhem, a bull.
He entered the Teva because of the stormy waters.
What do we mean because of stormy waters?
Hashem told him when it was going to be right and so.
And he built it for 120 years. So what do you think he was
building it for if not to enter the Teva?
So Rajshri of course points out that he was maman, but ain't no
maman. He was a little bit from a Tane
Yamuna in the sense that he wasn't so certain of himself.
We'll put it that way. We don't have to get
philosophical. But the point is that he didn't
have that self assurance of courage of his convictions, But
all the while he was building. And so I think if you were to
ask me, for example, am I fulfilling my, my mission in
life? It's hard to know.
You just have to always do the best you can and continue to
build. You know, if you're just a bird
that's circling around the Teva over and over and over again and
chasing your tail trying to find perfection, you're not going to
get anywhere. You know, the Yana went out
three times, had three missions. First it came back with nothing.
Then it came back with an olive branch, and then it came back,
and then it didn't come back at all the third time.
Well, which of those was the successful mission, Yaakov?
So I think we think in a linear way, like one of three, same
mission, same hishtadlas, 3 entirely different outcomes.
And yet in my opinion, all three were successful because you
learned something from all three.
So if you're paying attention and you're learning along the
way, then I think that's a successful thing.
And I can't imagine Hashem would ask anything more of you.
So I don't know if that answered your question, but it's about
the making the decision is about finding joy in what you're
doing. I always think if I was driving
a truck, I would listen to Stark Tank all day long and all the
podcasts. I would, you know, if I did
something like a menial task where I had an opportunity to
listen to podcasts, then that would be the joy that I would
find in that. I don't think that that would, I
don't think that that's, that not dealing with people is
really what I'm suited for, but I would find the joy in that.
And so I find the joint people as you mentioned.
And to me it's all about being surrounded by people.
That's also been very helpful in my decisions.
Remember, I told you to be very careful.
I needed to be on this. If I was going to do your
podcast, it'd have to be before our dear mutual friend Stephen
Glanz, right, who is a stark tank candidate of the highest
order in business and in learning.
He's a Rebbe now I'm with a Sarat.
He sold his company to Oracle. I recommend everybody to Google
that. But the reason I allow myself
that joke of of making fun of Steve is because I've been
blessed to have such dear friends and friends that those
people that are that surround you, a true friend.
Not only is somebody who can tell you you did a good job.
I don't have anybody in my life that's going to tell me I did a
good job on Stark Dank. They're going to tell me I was
too funny in the times of war or they'll tell me I was too
serious, that if you're having me on, then you're not having me
on to have a serious conversation.
Now you're only having me on for jokes.
They'll tell me every criticism on to the Sun.
And that's a beautiful thing because these are friends that
are comfortable, right, correcting you.
They know you. They care enough to know you and
to give you corrective advice. So I don't know if it comes up
on Stark Tank too often, but social person such as myself,
for me, it's all about the people that you're surrounded
with. And and that peer group is also
very, very important. Right.
I, I think you also spoke about the, you decision to go into
dentistry and it had all these different factors.
And so it sort of reminds me because like, especially in
like, you know, yeshiva coffee room hawk about dentistry.
So there are like 2, two things you'll hear. 1 is that like is
the profession to go into, to have lots of time to learn.
And the counter argument to that is like, well, you're spending
all day with your hands in people's mouths and, and
breathing their breath and just seeing what they had for their
last meal. So you seem to like transcend
all of that in the way you approach this.
Transcend is strong but that you're very kind.
I struggle with everything always and try to do the best I
can. There is an aspect of dentistry
that being your own boss I guess is one way of saying it.
I've never answered to anyone for how I'm spending my time
other than myself and you know, my creator.
That's tough thing. Even when you, maybe it's easier
when somebody's telling you what to do.
But the ability to balance work and life and family and
learning, it's up to you. You create your own right
schedule based on your values. And so dentistry certainly has
enabled me to do that. When I was when I was making
this decision, I was actually all over the place and I was
pretty stressed out, Yaakov, because I was already married.
And so now it's real. Or at least, you know, that's
how I felt. And so I went to a lot of people
to ask Gadolin. So I had one year left in
Sumitra Yu. I'd already done my shimush.
I was the rabbi of Stern College for it's a long story, but
anyways, the Shabbos rabbi at Stern College, this was like I
was married, like I was newly married.
Girls were coming up to me at Shabbos and asking me how like
Shila's I was like, let me get back to you in a couple of
months anyways. And so I had your Adea left.
I had to learn your Adea. That was the only thing I had
left. And I went to rehearsal Shafter
Shalita. And I asked them, I think I'm
probably going to do dental school should I finished.
And I went to somebody by the name of Frankel Shalita, who was
my Rabian High School. Basically Frankel said I was
telling him all my options. He said dentistry is awesome.
I was like, it's Usser said no, no, dentistry is awesome.
All my dentists have time to learn.
That was a very big deal for me to hear.
Then I went to a Schechter. Of course, I asked him should I
finish Sumika? And he said Sumika is not for
you. Just like anybody who I'd ever
asked who was in that position. He said you're gonna, Can you
believe he said this? This is a refresher, Schechter.
I promise you he said this and I was, and I'm still grateful to
him for this. To this day, he said, you're
going to dental school anyway as a dentist.
I'll give you a breather. You say you'll always have time
to learn. You'll have time to do Kirov and
and you're going to find your day very boring and technical
because he knows me. I know a lot of people find your
day very exciting. Maybe I would have now, you
know. But at the time, he said, you're
newly married, you're stressed out about your future.
Like the last thing you need is to break your head.
Knowing me over year a day, I thought there again, very
unexpected advice from a Rebbe, right?
And yeah, it's. Not too late, by the way.
Exactly. Well, that's what he said then.
And so he said you could always do it later.
It's not too late later. In the meantime, you'll have a
partner. So you'll get your life started,
You'll go to Eretz Estralla Fiosocha you'll and you'll make
your own schedule and you can do a lot more learning as an ATIS
and some then some certainly sure bottom have time to do.
You can create your own life and you're not defined by your
profession, Although again, these are landmark decisions
that it's, it's kind of almost a pocket, right?
It can take you any which way and one decision can have a
massive effect. But you can't over stress it
that because if you do, then you're more prone to make a bad
decision. You have to try to make the best
decision at the time and find the way to be the best version
of yourself along that path. So I I'm grateful for my urbane
and my friends who guided me to this point.
And you made reference to this journey that was really about
Aaliyah, and it worked, and then it wasn't working so well.
So can you tell that story in brief for those who aren't
familiar? Oh my gosh.
OK, Thanks a lot, Yaakov. I was, I sounded like such I, I
did not sound I OK. I was on a podcast called 1840.
I don't know if you've ever heard of it.
And they asked me that question. That was the premise of the
podcast. Me being on the podcast was
embarrassing in its own right because Steve Glanz, the
aforementioned Steve Glanz and all these other yeshivas, we
used to run these panels to show everybody you could beat Tama
Khakham and a professional and live in Israel.
It's a possibility, it's an option.
And so you can imagine people were going through yeshivas and
they knew me of the Aliyah option guy.
And then I had to go on a podcast about why I had to
leave. Erin Sasrell I also got a lot of
rabbis in trouble, by the way. And I don't think that's sort of
like the postscript. What basically happened was our
oldest kids moved to America. That's what basically happened.
And it was very much a consequence of our pin of
decisions at the time. And I think it actually does fit
in with some of the things that we're talking about because like
me, my children are very social people.
And so they were really connected to their peer group.
And even though they could have been Datilumi or they could have
been Kharidi, and that was kind of in Ramabech, how much they
were in the middle, they would have done best staying with a
critical mass of people who are exactly like them, where they
could just do what their friends are doing.
That's basically the people that we know that have navigated and
stayed on that fine, thin, razor thin line.
That's a challenging thing to do.
And you become sort of a singular person.
It's a lot easier if you're with a group.
That's true for most people. So most of their friends in
remote HMH actually were very comfortable finding their
theirs, their place. And so that's what we had hoped
would happen. But as it turns out, that didn't
happen to them. And their peer group were
Americans. So they ended up in America
because now they're both Hashem. They're in the situation where
they're following their their friends.
But that was a devastating thing for us to feel like family kind
of it's it's a lot of challenging feelings.
You feel like your family slipping away from you.
You feel like your dream of Israel is fading in front of
you. It was very, very hard.
Very hard. We ended up speaking to her
about him, I mentioned the rabunim that we spoke to, and
then some of those rabunim actually got in trouble because
some of my dear friends who gave me a hard time all the time
started giving those rabunim a hard time for giving us the
advice to move on. That said, in retrospect, this
has been a very healthy time for us.
So again, moved basically for family and now my mother-in-law
lives next door to me. It's kind of like a sitcom.
You know what a sitcom is Jacob and and and that's a big to and
she also and our old. Grandfather, we keep going on
this route, which I don't think you.
You know, my grandchildren also live in my community and and so
it's a very, it's a very important time career wise.
I'm sitting in this weird hotel in at a conference where I'm
speaking and it was a Seattle Deshmaya.
I found an office where I was able to really grow
professionally in the very specific mechanics of what I do.
And it was really career altering for me.
And as recently as over this past weekend, I met some very
prominent Israeli orthodontists that I've been trying to be in
touch with. And now I'm sort of a bar hafi
in their eyes, like they consider me a Makar.
And so that opens doors for us to come back and bring bring
back a lot of the things that we've gained in terms of family,
in terms of professional advancement.
These are things we can bring back to Israel.
We felt very grateful. My training in orthodontics.
There are some good friends of mine who are currently you know
some of my best friends are were Zoka to do that also would bring
their American training of orthodontics to Israel.
Now I'm on a higher level. I could bring that back to
Israel when we left my prayer was the prayer that we say and
share malus that no say alu. Most of you know we say those
words that we should be carrying bundles and it is my fervent
hope and prayer to be like gathering these bundles in
Khuzlarts and to carry them joyfully back and to share on
our way back. So, but it also speaks to our
initial discussion, which is weighing your options and
finding joy in what you do. I'm not fatalist.
My dear friend Rabbi Barack Safra always says that one of my
one of the things that he admires about me is that I don't
get into down mode. I've been very blessed to have a
positive attitude and for what some of the things we've been
through with, that's been super critical.
He says it also lignite and Leshva because he's saying it's
incredible how far down you can go and not get discouraged.
It's kind of, but by the same token, it's, it's been very,
it's been very helpful to be emotionally flexible, to be able
to handle life's challenges. I am acutely aware of some of
the life challenges that everyone faces and some of the
life challenges in particular going on in in Israel.
And they can really bring you down.
And it is not for me to tell people to keep their chin up
because I am not in their position currently.
And that's, that's a challenge that I don't know anybody that
can actually live up to. But certainly nobody would
disagree that moving on and choosing to live and choosing to
build is, is, is better than the alternative.
And so that requires strength is requires flexibility and it
requires, I think people who love you, who care enough to, to
support you around you. And so that, that's a that's,
that's been very big in my life. And so that's, that's where we
are right now. And I'm here for you, Yaakov.
That's very beautiful and you are and I appreciate that
there's a lot there and we're not going to do a whole Aliyah
podcast right now. But I think 1 angle that I
wanted to dive a little deeper into is the fact that, you know,
many of our listeners are, you know, raising kids and if
they're not Bazasham at the right time, they will be raising
children of their own. And we all have these hopes and
dreams and aspirations for our children, and yet we have such a
complex relationship with the yeah, we have this complex
dynamic where we have schools and Shoals and communities and
all these other outside influences on our children.
And so on the one hand, we want everything that they should be
just like we imagine them. On the other hand, there are all
these other influences from the outside.
So just can you zoom in on that a little bit and how you think
about that 'cause you said like it's your kids ended up making
the decision, taking a path that you weren't necessarily hoping
they would, but they did. And you're now doing your best
under those circumstances. Yeah, I think that that's very
case specific. You know, if I, I don't want to
embarrass you, but you know that your parents are renowned in our
in our peer circles as the number one parents that anyone
could ever have. Mom their their reputation is
that they're extremely caring and extremely intentional with
their parenting and that they are really incredible at and
it's obvious in the payrolls. It really incredible instilling
values in their kids. I think it's very important as a
parent not to be lazy and not to be selfish, but at the same time
to recognize that kids have to that it's their own lives.
And and so your parents strike that balance in such a beautiful
way. So you even me asking me your
parent in question would be like the brisk Karov asking me for
Svara and Dafiyomi. But I will tell you that to the
extent that your listeners, everyone's different, I think
that we have to be true to yourself.
OK, So we know a lot of families where everyone's kind of the
same ish, not the same, but you could tell that the was strong
and that the family has like a stamp that everyone has like,
like very, very deeply instilled consistent values that really
inform so much of their behavior and their choices.
In our particular family, we're very honest.
So that's kind of the the mantra it it can be, it could be
lignite, it could be tough because if somebody in school is
being mistreated by some by somebody in a position of
authority. So now you have a choice as a
parent, are you going to focus on the deference to authority,
which is a basic fundamental of Judaism and or are you going to
focus on being empathetic to that child and what they're
going through? And that is the fundamental
decision that really has that plays into every one of these
things. They I think that's the, I think
that's the decision that plays into every one of the things
that that you're talking about. Israel versus America, American
values versus Israeli values, etcetera.
So, so for example, Ramabhishchemish was, was a, our
kids were going to karate schools.
Certain values weren't exactly in concert with the values in
the home. That that's to be expected.
It can't be exact. So we have basic fundamental
values. We try to impart medo's
authenticity, right Joy. I would say that that's like the
three pillars. And so from that, every one of
our children does their own thing within that context.
But we err on the side of authenticity.
And if we think something is wrong, we're going to talk about
it. The Shabbas table, we sometimes
have yeshiva guys and we used to have it a lot more.
My wife really misses that. That's why we come every circus
and we host yeshiva guys and, and, and they watch the dynamic
at the table. And it may not be what they were
used to growing up, but we err on the side of just honesty and
authenticity. We talk about everything always.
And that's my style and authenticity just runs through
our family. And so in that sense, we're
playing to our strengths. If I tried to be dogmatic and
like yell at my kid if he came three minutes late for chakras
and explain to him like we're love these, we don't do that.
It wouldn't work. Because you if you try to be
something that you're not, you usually end up being a bad
version of the thing you're trying to be.
You know, it's just that, that well, the, the, the, the part
is, it's more what you do than what you preach.
So therefore know yourself as a parent, be honest with yourself
and, and show by example to the best that you can, and then just
be as honest as authentic as possible.
So that's our style. When they make their own
decisions, that's not a reflection on you or your
parenting per SE, That's you allowing them to be them.
And ultimately that is what you want because of their own
people. We experienced that multiple
times before we caught on, You know, all these, we were growing
up with these like why you yeshivish with like in Passaic
or whatever, with all these like little kids would pay us behind
their ears and all that. It's, it's cute.
But you know, at the end of the day, when they grow up to be
their own people, they have to be given the tools to be
authentic to themselves. And I think they can't give a
child a greater gift than that. That's very nice.
Let's transition because we're getting a little bit low on time
here to your Dafyomi Shir Dafyomi podcast.
I don't know how you like to define it and the Kabura.
You can tell me how you define it and just maybe start from the
beginning of how this all got started.
Well, thank you for the big plug.
I don't understand two things. When I was in 1840, for some
reason, Bashefkin was not concerned about my daily
schedule, which I was very offended by because he asks most
real people what their schedule is interested.
And he didn't plug my Dafiomi podcast.
So let's go. It's stop explaining.
You can get it, I think on iTunes or Spotify or everything.
And it's very me. And I'll tell you what I mean.
Well, first you asked how it started.
It's very me because I was never really consistent.
I was usually like a model of inconsistency with flashes of
brilliance, if I may say. But Rev Malinowitz that Sal, who
is our the Rev of our Shuler, Mapi Shemesh always encouraged
me to give Sheer as much as I could on a consistent basis.
I tried to make the Sheer when he wasn't around because a,
that's the last thing I needed was Rev Malinowitz was the chief
editor for Art Scroll at at a DAF sheer or even at a DAF
whatever review Sheer, which was whatever I was giving and also
like whatever I thought was beneath him and I didn't want
him there, but he came every time anyways.
And he would not be denied because he wanted to support
that idea. So shortly after we moved in
fall of 2019, he passed away. I had an opportunity to talk to
him for a long time just before he passed away, which was just
like a blessing. And so I was super inspired to,
I said, I'm going to do this for him.
You know, he was there for me. I'm going to do this for him.
So I decided I'm going to teach Daphiomi La Ilenishmaso.
I'm going to do a full cycle. I'm going to learn shots La
Ilenishmaso. Now it came at a decent time
because we just moved and I was, I was unemployed as if I just
come out of school. So I didn't have a job.
So I had plenty of time to prepare.
And then COVID hit. So then I had plenty of time to
prepare. The thing is not you can't just
show up and and tell people that you want to teach Duff.
Not everybody wants to hear Duff from you and I even went to a
few people and told them I want to give daf and they said that's
very nice. I hope that goes well for you.
Verb on him. You know, and but I met somebody
and they asked me how I was doing.
I kind of peripherally knew them.
And he asked me how you doing? And I said, I think by the time
the next cycle starts because I was like in like trying to get
Dafyomi cheer going mode. So for whatever reason, in a
regular social conversation, it was this dentist, Yoni Baron,
who was in the JCC pool in Baltimore.
He's asking me how I'm doing. And I'm telling him, I think by
the time that the next cycle starts, I'll be like a little
bit more acclimated, which was in January and you might recall
of 2020. Anyways, he's like, what you
learned off. And as fate would have it, they
have a 620 minion that was flailing and is now really
burgeoning. It's doing really well and at
the time they couldn't get 10 men for that minion and Sharp,
the name Jacob Shah resign, which is a show of Rabbi Rose.
She does the rabbi and previously was Rabbi Hauer at
the time. He's now with the OU.
Anyways, so he said we're desperate.
We're desperate because we need people at this minion.
So we need a Dafyomishir before that minion.
So I said wait, but what time do you say the minion was anyway?
5:30 AM. It was the craziest thing.
Mind you, I don't start work till 11, so it's not like I'm
rushing, but I was desperate so it was my only option.
So I took the opportunity and I'm shocked Yaakov, I thought I
was going to spend full all nighters crying preparing the
death. But Art squirrel was very
helpful and I'm doing it to Illinois Nishma or Molinos
anyway. So I could justify being very,
very assured to art squirrel with with my with my shot, if
you want to call it that. And I do it five days a week.
So if you're type A personality, there's a bunch of different
people, types of people do Dafiomi.
Most of them are type A checking it off.
They like the consistency and all of that.
So you would hate my podcast if you did that because I'm only
Monday through Friday so already you're not getting the full
amount right? Hopefully if I do a few cycles
I'll fill it all in. Also if I'm away like I am now,
I originally used to have fill insurance but I burnt them all
out because nobody wants to go to 530.
It used to be 535. It was a 45 minutes year, but
since October 7th we said we got to do something, so we moved it
to 5:30, which obviously we regret every single day, but
hopefully if at least it's a little close, maybe it's worth
it. My Daf style Thank you for
asking about my DAF style. It's actually I err on the side
of making it relatable to me. I find the material extremely
fascinating. I find it like a storyline, like
a narrative. I can't get past it.
I don't see it as like a chocolate vitaria.
I see it as a story. And every question, even if it's
something that's not halakhala maisa, it's like historically
fascinating to me. And the personalities are
fascinating to me. And as we've come from bracious,
bracious from Bracos all the way now and making it through all
the way to deep into Baba Basra, the personalities come out.
So, for example, I am rightfully accused of being a Reva
apologist. I I think those as far as are so
clear, I can't get over it. And we, you and I were always
aware of Yaal Kagam. But when I saw Yaal Kagam like
come to life, I was like, that's right.
Yaal Kagam Rava is of course always right.
Abaya is great, but like OK, so 6 times he's right.
So the personalities I don't psychoanalyze or anything like
that, but I get really into it when it comes to that.
Did you know that when I was working in, I had a satellite
when I work in Israel, I had a satellite office in the gush and
this woman by the name of Shira Schmidtman, she had, she was in
the middle of a PhD on Rami Bahama in Bar Ilan.
So I was always speaking to my patients, as you know, and like
gaining everything from everyone.
And I thought that that was incredible.
She actually, I think was Mahavan to Shakis Aria, some
crazy thing. Like her premise has something
to do with Rami Bahama being consistent with your Xiaomi.
It's beyond the scope of this podcast or even my Duff's
playing. But I will tell you that when
you know that somebody's on a PhD and Rami Bahama, you can't
read Rami Bahama in the Gemara without like paying closer
attention. So I noticed he was really
sharp. Like for Duffyomi, it's kind of
rough because every time we're about to finish the Duff Omarami
Bahama, we're like, uh oh. Because it's always super hoppy
question. It's always like really clever
and like at 5:30, you're not always in the mood for it when
you're trying to finish Duff. But we embrace it.
And by the way, he and Robert were the two best guys in this
year. Read the gomars.
You'll see it's it's not me speculating.
And this year, so anyways, just like the just like my work is
about the people, the Duff is about the people in the Duff.
It's about the people on the Duff.
It's about the. People on the Duff, it's the joy
in it. And so it's a very joyful Duff.
It's not a check off the list Duff and it's brought.
You don't need. To go to like external sources
to find like joy and shtick like it's all within the actual
material. Well, it's very kind of you to
say, and I don't know what you're referring to, but I feel
what you're saying very, very strongly.
I think that however people people consume Duff is
incredible and however and anybody who gives of themselves
to teach it is incredibly commendable.
Especially there's movements now of like just large movements of
people getting excited about Duff and I think that that's
incredible. But maybe because internally
there is that inner nerd in me, I don't find the external shtick
funny. I happen to be like a little bit
of a comedy snob. So the comedy doesn't speak to
me, but like the subtle comedy inside the actual Duff that
speaks to me. So it's a matter of taste.
And yeah, I find real joy in the in the Duff.
I feel, you know, Rabbi Kiva's laughter through Corbin and
things like that. It's a matter of perspective,
right? It's not like Leitanus is making
fun of serious things. That's late Sunnis.
That's as bad a thing as you could do.
But Simcha is making fun of non serious things and finding joy
in meaningful things and that's what we strive to do.
And so it's a very simple oriented Duff.
We find joy in those things. That's amazing and.
It has brought up. Because you I know I know you
wanted me to. I mean, I was going to actually
ask you about the process of how you do it, your schedule, but
because you really want to have this and he really have Avatar
Kennis. We can start from the night, you
know, Hila by everybody Booker. So I'll start with your nightly
schedule, then your daily schedule.
And I really do want to hear how you go about producing this year
on a five times a week basis. Well, you know what?
You are too kind. I I'm I'm having the best time.
This might be the best moment of my whole life.
And I think yeah. So I'll tell you I I get up.
I'm going to do not what you asked because my night time.
I just wanted to do what you asked me to.
Understand. No, I know you were trying to be
nice and, and I do appreciate it and that means more to me than
anything. But I got to get this year at
5:30. So I get up at either 5 or one
or five or eight, depending on how tired I know I am.
And then I get there. That's the astonishing thing,
Yaakov. I get there on time.
It's really messed up. If you know me, that's really,
it's an unprecedented thing that happens every day in the during
the middle of the week after that.
So we give daf and then we daf. And then after that, I have a
Carusa to prepare the next day's daf.
And so if you're doing the math, I get home, it's like 815 people
are like on their way out to school.
I've already taught DAF, Dabin and learned the next day's DAF.
That's in the ideal. And now I have time before I go
to work. So that's when I do my either
exercise or if I have to do more for DAF or if I have something
to take care of, then I work from about 5:50 roughly.
And then the evenings are something that we're working on.
That's family time. A lot of times historically it's
been second Caruso for daf sometimes Now Rabbi Marwick
Schlita, who I should mention in in everybody should come to
Sheree in Baltimore if you're in the Baltimore area and he's
trying to strengthen a night seder there.
So I'm always tweaking and tightening my schedule and I
want to be more productive in in those evening hours also while
at the same time being home for the family.
My family will tell you that by the time I get back from work,
I'm a little bit of a shmata. So I'm like passing out and
taking the. And when I'm telling you my
schedule, my family will tell you I'm skipping a couple of
naps in there because it is crazy to get up that early and
to be that productive. And then I normally go to sleep
late at night also. So it doesn't work unless you're
either disciplined, which I'm not, or you're taking naps,
which I'm great at. So I'm kind of playing to my
strengths. So to me, if I could take like a
power nap right when I get home from from work and then be fresh
for everyone in the evening, then that actually works for me.
But thank you for asking about my schedule.
I think that's so you're basically.
Doing like the Rambam's sleep, sleep, sleep schedule.
Well, that's, that's kind of you, yes.
I, I, I, I actually think that my schedule is above average.
So I'm glad that you asked, and I do forgive Bechefkin for not
asking, but I'm glad that it's out there now.
OK, it's been very fun and I and I, I get a lot of joy to
speaking to you just like all your patients do.
And I just, I guess just to finish off, I really want to
point out that you managed to take the experience of getting
braces and having your orthodontistry from something
which is so feared and so reviled to something so
enjoyable and exact thing that you like set out to do as like
your life's mission or you just sort of ended up there.
I think it's a combination. It's The funny thing that you
mentioned. We, we have this Invisalign
convention where I currently AM and from the beginning to end,
all they're talking about is the patient experience is what
matters. And they're kind of preaching to
to other dentists to try to do what we were always doing all
along. For us, it's about the people.
I am a connector and a communicator.
So when somebody comes, that's a very real thing for me.
You know how connected I am to your family and to your wife's
family. So the Zimbalists, you know, you
know, I'm not going to get it better than the Zimbalists.
So, so Speaking of the Kama and her family, so I had the
privilege of treating, I think all the siblings, including
Avraham, and including Elimo, Zecharzadek, Livraja.
And in the case of Elimo, he was a very challenging case
clinically. Like Nakama and like you, just
an Angel of a kid. Like just, I didn't know that he
was a builder. I didn't know that part of his
life, but I knew that he was just an unbelievable,
unbelievable, sweet kid and outstandingly so.
And so when he had complications and I moved, he was in the
middle of his case and the Zimbalists had a tough time.
You're Mccutanim. No, no, you're not even
Mccutanim. But you know what I mean.
Your parents, Mccutanim, they had a tough time finding
somebody to take on his case because he was in the middle of
like a case that nobody wanted to take on, more or less.
And I, because of the way I approach what I do, and I'm
about the people I felt, you know, their challenge, it was
something that they needed to take care of.
And it was a sincere thing. And so I said, you know what,
I'm just going to step up and treat him remotely with
Invisalign from here. And we're going to just stay in
touch because that will mean something to me anyways, to be
able to stay in touch with these people that I love so much.
And the more connected I am to people in Israel, the more
physical I get from that. Anyway, anybody who listens to
this podcast and even people who don't know that Ellie MO was
tragically killed and he was in the middle of treatment.
He and your mother-in-law, Sarah and I had a three-way chat
called Smiles R Us. And Oh, my goodness, when I
heard the news, I was like everyone and my wife's very,
very connected to what's going on in his zone.
And I am too. But, you know, I don't stay up
all night. I like check in the morning.
That's so like part of the routine, you know, how's it
going? But I just knowing how precious
he was and they all are. But, you know, obviously for
better, for worse, it's different when you know, and how
connected we were. I just, I, I was besides myself
and I didn't even know how I would call his mother to console
her. That's how devastating it was.
I didn't know like where to start with it.
Anyway, she called me amazingly, I think it was, it was like 4:00
in the morning, I think the day after the levaya.
I think it was maybe the first day of Shiva to let me know
because she wasn't sure if I had hurt.
I was going to call her when she called me.
I felt obviously the grief, but the connection was so strong.
Like it made it like, you know what?
In that moment of her and the whole family and Simi and and
and all the siblings in there and the moment of their immense
pain, I saw the seeds of like how people are there for each
other, connected to each other. If we hold on to each other so,
so tight, we can build. And that's what Ellima would
want. And that was meant so much to
me. My wife and I weren't on the
phone with her. We, we cried, you know, for a
guy who didn't know what to say. We ended up talking for like 45
minutes, you know, on the, on the morning of the first day of
Shiva, if I recall correctly. And it was just about all the
memories. And it was just so, so moving.
And then I have to go give daff. So I was like a mess.
So I start off saying we're going, we're going to learn this
Maseka Leila Nishmas Elimo it was.
Bumgundo Bastro when he was killed.
Baba Mizia right and story the ends of Baba Mizia right and so
we're going to we're going to do this CM Leila Nishmaso and then
there's this guy that some people have 100,000 listeners.
I have like 5 for my podcast, but there's but most of them are
like my friends. Like shout out to Matt Bornstein
who listens and we are good friends from but this guy never
knew me. He doesn't know me from anywhere
other than the podcast. His name is Moshe Aziz and Moshe
Aziz heard how broken up I was that morning and so he contacted
me and I'd never met him. He said I'm coming down in
Baltimore. He lives in New York so I'm
coming down to Baltimore. I'm going to sponsor a massive
seum and we're going to do Leo and which is Ellie MO.
So think about the connections. You know, we're talking about
being about the people. This is a guy who doesn't even
know me, let alone Elimo, and he feels so connected to Elimo that
he wants to give Hizuk and to connect.
It's unfortunately the way tragedy unfortunately can do
that. But when it does bring people
together, that's I think a really appropriate response.
Incredible. Hizuk.
I think that's what it's all about.
He didn't see him. It was amazing.
We spoke about Elimo and a lot of people actually joined the
Dafyomi. I mean some very prominent.
I have like a better Baba Basra crew, a bigger crew I should
say, because they were so inspired by it.
So it's inspiration leading to Torah, leading to real
connection, all of it just continuously feeding itself.
That's that's what we try to do. I, I yeah.
I know that you all miss him so terribly.
I know that his presences felt in the shul.
Rabbi Rosner, who, you know, maybe I should give a plug.
There's a guy Rabbi named Rabbi Shulam Rosner, who also gives a
Duffyomi. He's he's OK.
So he I'm a little bit of a Duffyomi kind of sore, by the
way. And I think Robert Rosner is
quite excellent. I'll give him a plug.
And he's your uncle. So his jewel is filled with all
of Ellie MO's things. And it was just so incredibly
talented. But for me, it was what an
incredibly gentle, generous soul he was.
And so we'll try to incorporate that in everything we do.
And, and I just hope that we could continue to keep all these
connections. I mean, you just contacting me,
it gives me physics if I ever have an opportunity to give you
physics. And that's what I was doing.
I was trying to give him physics.
That's where it started. So to me, it's an example of the
place where you put your establish and go a little bit
out of your comfort zone. That's where you create the more
most meaningful, you know, make the most meaningful progress,
create the most meaningful connections.
So, yeah. So shout out to to to your to
your beautiful family and hopefully we'll have the
strength to make right decisions You have Nahama.
So I'll tell you what Rod Blahman told me.
Do whatever Nahama says. That'll work.
You don't have to. You don't have to have any of
this anxiety about life decisions.
Yaaku, you're good. Thank you, thank you.
This has been very special. And I think just the the joy,
the positive attitude and finding the people and being
there for the people along, I think that's for me one of the
main takeaways of this fantastic conversation.
So Doctor Levy, thank you for joining us.
And we have to do this again, because there's so much more
that we didn't even cover yet. That's right.
If I if now if you don't call me, it's going to be awkward.
Yeah. I love, love to you and your
family to everyone in Israel. We're on our way back.
Never felt more confident of that.
We're working on it. OK.
So we should be able to go should go through all of life's
chapters. You talk about all the stations
you're earlier on in your in your stage than I am.
But I give you a bracha that every stage you should be able
to fulfill your potential beyond your wildest dreams and do as
you have been doing help others do that as well.
It's an incredible thing that you're doing and you should
continue to have the strength to do it and have be very much
Leah. Oh man, thank you.
That's our show for today. If you enjoy Stark Tank, you
will also enjoy The Stark Tank via WhatsApp, where we send
episode updates, exclusive bonus content and more.
The link is in the show notes.