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Hello everybody, I am Sean and 
this is Everyday Quality, a 

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podcast about quality management
systems and how to not let your 

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plant blow up. 
We'll work on a better intro. 

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Today I want to talk about a, a 
topic near and dear to 

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everybody's hearts and within 
the, the quality realm in the 

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ISO 9000A SITF, every, every 
standard has a version of 

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management review. 
And most, most of the time it's 

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the most boring meeting of the 
quarter or the year. 

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You know, you got to do it at 
minimum annually in most of our,

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our standards. 
I'm going to click a button and 

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pull that standard up real quick
here. 

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But generally it's a, a meeting 
that just goes over stuff that 

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you're already talking about. 
So why have it as its own little

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thing? 
And everybody's like, ah, we're 

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going to talk about KPIs are 
good. 

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And it's, it's boring. 
People perceive it as a, a 

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negative meeting. 
So that you you say the phrase 

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like, hey, it's time for 
management review and everybody 

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just kind of sighs and that's 
eared throughout the building. 

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You know, someone's got to go 
print out a whole bunch of 

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reports. 
Somebody's got to get the 

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PowerPoint presentation ready to
go. 

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You talk about what happened 
with your previous audits. 

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There's a whole bunch of stuff 
going on with, you know, all, 

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all of the, the required 
elements that you need to talk 

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about during the management 
review. 

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And it feels like a lot of very 
sudden work for a topic that, 

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you know, you have to talk 
about, you know, has a big old 

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impact. 
And generally it's something 

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that it should be a very good 
thing. 

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So, and I'm, I'm story time. 
I'm very guilty of this as well.

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Most of my management review 
meetings when I started this 

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were just PowerPoint 
presentations and you just got 

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to put up, you know, what 
actions did you take? 

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Were they effective? 
What at risk are you addressing?

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Show your KPIs for the process 
and then move on to the next. 

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And then hope someday later on 
the, the notes from the meeting 

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were sufficient enough to drive 
action later. 

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And that's a lot of hope, a lot 
of thinking that the process is 

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working when it's really not 
because management review is an 

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excellent tool. 
So what is management review 

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supposed to be? 
ISO 9001 section I misclicked, 

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sorry. 
Section 9.3 Top Management shall

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review the organization's 
quality management system at 

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planned intervals to ensure its 
continuing suitability, 

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adequacy, effectiveness and 
alignment with the strategic 

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direction of the organization. 
It's simple, it's a meeting, 

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you've got certain inputs that 
you got to do. 

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The status of actions for the 
last meeting. 

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Changes in external and internal
issues relevant to the QMS 

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Customer satisfaction. 
Did you meet your objectives? 

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Look at your conformity of 
products and services. 

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Look at your non conformities. 
Corrective actions, Monitoring, 

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measurement results, audit 
results, Performance of external

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providers. 
Adequacy of resources and 

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resources, I think it's defined 
earlier in the standard really, 

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people, machines, equipment, 
that kind of stuff. 

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Effectiveness factions taken to 
address risk and opportunities 

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as defined in Section 6.1. 
And then what opportunities does

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the place have for improvement? 
So those are all the stuff that 

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goes into it. 
Those are very important topics.

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Those are are good, good things.
So it's built meant to be this, 

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this giant leadership engagement
tool. 

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And in my experience, even 
before I was tasked with leading

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these kind of meetings, it was 
the quality manager sits down 

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and goes through the slides and 
then everybody leaves. 

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It's not an effective use of 
this because it is meant to be a

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that if we're talking plan, do 
check, act. 

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This is a very good time to 
check, make sure that your KPIs 

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are doing what they're supposed 
to be doing, making sure that 

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your system is functioning and 
it hits that main pillar of the 

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ISO 9000 system of leadership. 
Engaged leaders are better 

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leaders. 
They make better decisions, they

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make better choices and the 
difference between letter, never

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mind, but it's a very important 
tool. 

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So the standard says leadership 
has to review the performance, 

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risks, opportunities, resources,
different improvements. 

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It's a structured moment for top
management to look at everything

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as a system. 
It's difficult throughout normal

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operation to see the 
interconnectivity of quality and

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your machine set up side and 
your warehouse side and your 

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production side. 
But when you've got all of those

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leaders in our room and you're 
seeing how you know a quality 

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issue on Tuesday really changed 
how things worked on a 

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Wednesday, then you get to see 
those those interactions. 

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And if you take the time, the 
dedicated time to see, OK, we're

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off on our on time delivery 
goals, but this customer issue 

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is causing us to delay raw 
material purchasing. 

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That is a cool moment for 
everybody to just kind of see 

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what a quality system should be.
I'm a big advocate of the, I 

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wouldn't say big advocate, but 
changing the term quality 

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management system to a business 
management system is a pretty 

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good idea because it does show 
how you run the whole business, 

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not just the quality department,
not just the quality of your end

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of product. 
It's the whole thing and it all 

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interconnects. 
And that's what management 

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review is supposed to do is show
that that give that moment where

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everybody can have a look at the
system as a whole. 

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So it's kind of like a health 
check up for the, the whole 

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company. 
You're not just measuring, you 

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know, blood pressure here, 
you're checking the the 

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heartbeat, you're checking 
stress levels, you're not going 

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and doing a cholesterol deep 
dive, that kind of stuff. 

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So if you're treating this like 
a check up, you don't say like, 

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Yep, hey, cool, everything's 
still ticking along. 

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You're just looking at it to 
say, how healthy are we and how 

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do we get healthier? 
How do we change right now to 

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become a better organization? 
So with a a meaningful 

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management review meeting, 
you're going to ask yourself, 

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are processes effective? 
Are people supported? 

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Again, this is just the top 
leadership, top management of 

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the organization is going to sit
down and look at all of this 

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right there. 
Top management 931 top 

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management shall review. 
So this is the the decision 

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makers in the company and they 
need to get the information to 

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them that says if a process is 
effective or not, if their 

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people are supported or not. 
And are we improving or just 

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maintaining where we are? 
In some organizations that 

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maintenance stage maybe have 
plateaued. 

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You're not hitting that growth 
side, you're not in that 

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decline, but you're just kind of
doing your thing really, really 

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well. 
Maintaining is great, improving 

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always more fun. 
So you want to make sure that 

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you have the evidence to show to
top management what those 

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requirements might be. 
So when done right, this 

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management review should not be 
treated with fear. 

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It should be treated as an 
opportunity to once again check 

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on the efficacy of your system. 
All right, So what makes 

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standard management review stuff
not as exciting, kind of boring,

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in fact, why they usually suck. 
So the, the management review 

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should be a valuable thing, but 
when you're going into it with 

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the the checkbox mentality, like
we need to do this to make sure 

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our ISO auditor is happy, that 
is not going to make for an 

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effective meeting. 
So you've got a lot of stuff 

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coming in, You know, typically 
when we see management review, 

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you've got to get all your 
department info together. 

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You're going to run into data 
overload. 

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If you're going to about off 
about 14 different departments 

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and their KPIs and you've got 
charts and graphs and all of 

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this telling the story of just 
one department and then you do 

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that 14 times, nobody's going to
remember that. 

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It becomes just too much going 
on. 

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And if you've got 14 non 
interconnected departments 

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sharing their data, you've got 
no story. 

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Data is story. 
So you get numbers, but no 

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context. 
If you're just shouting out like

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we've got an 80% ROI on project 
Y, sure, great. 

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Why? 
How need that story to go along 

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with it? 
Otherwise nobody cares. 

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It's good numbers. 
They may not get celebrated if 

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you do hit the, the the targets 
because everybody's just so 

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bogged down in the rest of the 
data. 

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And then if you've got bad 
numbers, well, you've got 13 

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other departments that you got 
to look at. 

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So that info is going to get 
silenced. 

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You may have disengaged leaders.
A A popular thing when I first 

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started doing manager reviews 
was not having the right people 

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show up. 
So we would schedule three to 

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four months in advance and then 
everybody would schedule other 

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things on top of it. 
So we changed that. 

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We made it a a much easier 
process to participate in. 

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And if you make it easier for 
people to participate in a 

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meeting, to share their stories,
to get up in front of everybody 

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and say this is what we did, we 
had help from departments ABC, 

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that makes them more interested 
in taking part because it's not 

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a presentation is not a lecture 
that they're coming to, It's a 

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meeting. 
And meetings should be very 

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exciting things. 
So sometimes running into 

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leadership disengagement is a, a
big, big issue. 

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And the worst thing that I would
run into with those those early 

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mandatory review days was no 
follow up on actions taken. 

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You'd assign a scribe to to 
write down notes that jot down 

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action items. 
But then a week passes, those 

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notes haven't been distributed, 
those action items haven't been 

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assigned. 
We forget about them. 

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And then by the time the next 
management review meeting comes 

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around and you're discussing 
what actions were taken since 

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the last management review and 
the status of those, nobody 

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knows how to answer that because
nothing happens. 

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And then you've got to document 
that. 

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And your ISO auditor is going to
be pretty proud of you for 

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documenting it, but you didn't 
do anything. 

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So you aren't making the best 
use of this meeting. 

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So that is reasons this stuff 
could suck. 

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So how do we make it valuable? 
How do we fix management review?

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Well, we kind of hit on one 
earlier. 

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We want to be able to tell that 
story with the data. 

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Don't show a chart. 
Tell people what they need to 

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hear. 
You are the, the person 

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presenting data for your 
department, presenting your data

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for the company to dissect, go 
over look at it. 

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So you get a little bit of 
control of the story that you're

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going to tell in the 1st place. 
So if you come to your your 

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meeting and you say, well, hey, 
our complaints from customers 

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dropped by 40% quarter over 
quarter, don't leave it there. 

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You want to say our complaints 
dropped 40% quarter over 

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quarter, we suspect because of 
this packaging change and we 

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know that we're leading toward 
the packaging change because 

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they gave us feedback on that. 
So if you come up with here's 

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our numbers and here's what 
happened, then you get that 

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story going and that'll help you
with that actions taken and 

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effectiveness to address risk 
pretty well too. 

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So if your risk was complaints, 
what was your action taken? 

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Change the packaging, What is it
effective? 

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Was it effective? 
Yes, we dropped complaints 40% 

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quarter over quarter. 
So give the story, give more 

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info, it invites those follow up
questions. 

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It really sparks that discussion
because it could lead toward 

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other departments looking at 
maybe packaging wasn't a a 

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leading indicator of how to 
reduce complaints. 

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So that could spark other 
departments to say, oh hey, 

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let's look at our kind of dark 
horse candidates, see what we 

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can do to improve on those as 
well. 

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Next, you can really prioritize 
what matters. 

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The problem that I run into with
a once a quarter management 

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review is that you have to go 
through a lot of data. 

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And with management review, you 
don't really have to go through 

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every topic every single time. 
You don't have to go through 

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every metric every time, so long
as you've got that and you're 

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going to talk about it at some 
point throughout the year. 

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Tracking and trending. 
We'll talk about bowler charts 

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in a moment, but you don't have 
to go through everything. 

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You know what your, your 
strategic topics are and in the 

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standard right, So 9.3.1 to 
planned intervals to ensure its 

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continuing suitability, 
adequacy, effectiveness and 

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alignment with the strategic 
direction of the organization. 

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So if your strategic direction 
for the organization is mostly 

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going to be impacted by 
production, production's going 

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to get a lot more time than a 
purchasing team that has been in

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place for 25 years. 
So use use this meeting to 

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tackle those those high topics, 
you know, pick five of them, 

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five topics that are going to 
really impact the organization's

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directed in health. 
For this period of review, you 

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want to make sure that your 
meeting has a good cross section

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of the organization. 
So you've got your top 

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management. 
So maybe you've got a, a general

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manager, a quality manager, 
process manager, they, they need

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to all be there, but maybe some 
supervisors, process owners, 

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team leaders, you know, call up 
a customer that would be that 

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would look really cool to an 
external auditor could be risky.

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You're going to really know your
customers pretty well to to 

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bring them in on that sort of 
stuff. 

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But overall, their input, their 
feedback immediately would be 

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fantastic. 
So get that diversity of voice 

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opinion, find out from the 
people actually doing the work 

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what is happening on the floor, 
on the purchasing side, on the 

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warehousing side. 
The more you're able to get 

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people to participate in this, 
it does show that leadership 

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engagement because customer 
focus, internal and external 

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customers apply to that 
leadership engagement. 

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Big pillar there it's it's going
to look good and get your top 

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management more feedback. 
Just just, it's better to bring 

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in more people to these, these 
meetings to share updates, share

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stories, figure out what the 
data is actually telling us 

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behind the numbers. 
The boring meetings don't have 

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actions come up. 
So if you've got the 

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opportunity, if you have the 
opportunity to assign actions as

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you're going, you know, you want
to assign a scribe, assign an 

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action taker and somebody's 
going to write all those actions

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down. 
And we'll go over a format 

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suggestion in a couple minutes 
here, but the quicker that you 

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were able to write down those 
actions, assign them, point to 

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somebody, say their name and say
you were going to deliver this 

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within 30 days, the better it 
goes. 

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Accountability can be built into
this meeting very easily by just

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saying people's names and giving
them the actions. 

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Take time to celebrate the wins.
If you don't celebrate wins, 

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nobody thinks that winnings, 
that those wins matter and they 

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very much do. 
Every little improvement 

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opportunity gets you closer to 
meeting your metrics better. 

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So take a moment, say hey, 
congratulations on meeting that 

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40% reduction rate, that is 
awesome, good job. 

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What's next? 
That sort of stuff. 

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So recognize improvements, 
recognize good audit results, 

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recognize OEE gains, recognize 
customer feedback and a positive

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customer feedback, definitely 
address negative customer 

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feedback. 
That's beside the point, but 

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this is a meeting dedicated to 
progress. 

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This is a, a meeting to show, 
OK, this is what we did in the 

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last review period. 
It's all a lagging indicator. 

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Find successes, celebrate them, 
and then go on to address the 

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the things that didn't quite 
work because you're going to 

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have people here to engage with 
to draw ideas from and make it 

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just a better situation for your
organization. 

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Use a good dashboard that's, you
know, a wall of text doesn't 

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engage people. 
I'm sure we've all written work 

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instructions before. 
It's very difficult to get 

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people to read those. 
Now imagine doing that for 14 

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slides over a 2 hour meeting. 
It's not going to work. 

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Nobody's going to remember it. 
So use trend lines, use your 

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cool pie charts, get some real 
fun pictures up there to show 

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what the improvements you're 
talking about do and make that 

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a, an opportunity to to share 
visuals and not just words 

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'cause you're going to get way 
better engagement if you show 

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people easy to digest charts, 
graphs, pictures, that sort of 

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stuff. 
And finally, if you want a 

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really engaged meeting, making 
sure that people want to 

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participate in these, know that 
they need to participate these 

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and have a, a less dreadful 
approach to getting these 

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meetings done. 
Make sure you I'm going to I'm 

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going to use terrible corporate 
jargon. 

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I apologize, but close the loop 
here. 

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You want to start every meeting 
by revealing the last one. 

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Talk about your actions that 
have happened and then. 

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Reward and celebrate what 
actions have been closed out. 

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So that would be the best way to
to open and close the meeting by

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making sure that everybody knows
what the expectations are before

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the the next meeting arrives and
then he can close the loop for 

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the next one. 
The the point of management 

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review is to write down what 
your organization is. 

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So management review can serve 
as a a real mirror into what the

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the culture of your company is, 
what the priorities of your 

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company are. 
It's a it's that mirror. 

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It reflects all of what you are 
back at you. 

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So if your management review 
meeting is boring and rushed and

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full of yelling, then your 
culture needs some work. 

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If your management review is 
asking a lot of questions, 

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brings up real data, gets 
focused on making sure that 

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improvement is happening, then 
your culture's probably pretty 

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00:21:29,320 --> 00:21:32,040
good to take a moment. 
Use that management review 

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meeting to build what you want 
your culture to be like, because

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top management is really going 
to have the most effect on 

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culture. 
You can try to lead culture 

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changes, culture shifts from the
bottom up. 

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It's not going to happen. 
But if top management, the 

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people in this room looking at 
the data, deciding the strategic

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00:21:55,360 --> 00:21:59,840
direction, if they can figure 
all of this out in a curious, 

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honest and fact finding manner, 
then your culture's going to 

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win. 
It'll be great to do that. 

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So use management review has 
that meeting that will 

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ultimately create good results 
for everybody top down and good 

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results come from good culture, 
plain and simple. 

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All right, format. 
So we talked a lot about the 

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don't use PowerPoint, just I've 
I'm over PowerPoint for this 

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00:22:31,880 --> 00:22:36,840
particular meeting. 
What I suggest is a really 

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detailed Excel book. 
Everybody uses Excel or some 

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00:22:39,560 --> 00:22:42,400
form of it. 
Start with the bowler chart. 

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You've got all of your 
departments, all of their goals.

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You've got what the target was, 
the plan, and then you're going 

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00:22:54,120 --> 00:22:57,440
to report on the actual, put a 
spark line in there so you can 

341
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watch the trend. 
And then month after month, just

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write down what number you got 
and do that for every 

343
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department. 
Yeah, one goal, two goals. 

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Maybe make sure that you've got 
your wildly important goal 

345
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identified for each department 
and how that feeds into the 

346
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overall organization's goals. 
Track and trend those. 

347
00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:20,240
Get a sheet for customer 
feedback. 

348
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Track to track customer 
temperature. 

349
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You know, are they OK? 
Are they, they're white hot and 

350
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going to yell at everybody. 
That sort of stuff can be done 

351
00:23:33,520 --> 00:23:36,320
right here. 
Get an rolling action item list 

352
00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,520
so you can quickly assign and 
send out what actions everybody 

353
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needs to deal with. 
Make sure you've got your 

354
00:23:43,600 --> 00:23:46,440
quality policy somewhere in 
there. 

355
00:23:47,080 --> 00:23:50,320
Go through and review your 
corrective action log with all 

356
00:23:50,320 --> 00:23:53,360
of the people present. 
Get a risk register. 

357
00:23:53,640 --> 00:23:57,200
I like a good facility risk 
register and I've got a template

358
00:23:57,200 --> 00:23:59,000
you can download right at the 
website. 

359
00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:03,320
But a facility risk register can
be reviewed quickly. 

360
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:04,720
You can write down what you've 
done. 

361
00:24:04,720 --> 00:24:07,240
We can write down what 
effectiveness it had, was it 

362
00:24:07,240 --> 00:24:10,440
closed out, is it opened, is it 
an ongoing risk, that sort of 

363
00:24:10,440 --> 00:24:13,360
stuff. 
You can get all of this stuff 

364
00:24:13,520 --> 00:24:19,480
really monitored pretty well and
with a, a notebook, a note block

365
00:24:19,720 --> 00:24:22,800
in there as well. 
So you do have records and 

366
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documented information as 
evidence of the results of these

367
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management reviews. 
So Excel easy to access, just 

368
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,440
put it up on your shared server,
maybe for that SharePoint or a 

369
00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:41,720
local server, whatever you need 
to makes it easy, makes it live.

370
00:24:42,080 --> 00:24:51,080
It feels less like a untouchable
record than a like a a scribes 

371
00:24:51,080 --> 00:24:52,960
notes from a management review 
would be. 

372
00:24:54,640 --> 00:24:58,440
But if you use that Excel book, 
it's there, it's present, easy 

373
00:24:58,440 --> 00:25:01,160
to update, everybody really 
understands Excel. 

374
00:25:01,320 --> 00:25:04,320
PowerPoint doesn't have that 
same kind of usage. 

375
00:25:06,040 --> 00:25:08,880
It'll, it'll do wonders in 
making sure that you have the 

376
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,760
ability to share this 
information and take action on 

377
00:25:12,760 --> 00:25:16,080
it. 
And without action, meetings are

378
00:25:16,080 --> 00:25:18,360
useless. 
Meetings should have the ability

379
00:25:18,360 --> 00:25:21,480
to really impact your, your 
day-to-day routine in profound 

380
00:25:21,480 --> 00:25:24,320
ways. 
They're definitely more 

381
00:25:24,520 --> 00:25:29,480
impactful on your day then then 
say like a, a standard commute 

382
00:25:29,880 --> 00:25:32,480
because stuff should happen at 
meetings and stuff should 

383
00:25:32,480 --> 00:25:34,880
definitely happen at your 
management review meeting. 

384
00:25:35,160 --> 00:25:38,880
So hopefully it involves 
storytelling actions, making 

385
00:25:38,880 --> 00:25:44,080
sure you're getting stuff done. 
So OK, that is me ranting for 

386
00:25:44,400 --> 00:25:46,680
quite some time on management 
review. 

387
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:54,640
So we'll stop there for now. 
As we close out, if you have a a

388
00:25:54,640 --> 00:25:57,200
cool story about manager review,
please let me know. 

389
00:25:57,680 --> 00:26:05,240
You can send me a notes everyday
qualitypodcast@gmail.com. 

390
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:08,880
Let me find that out again. 
Yes, everyday 

391
00:26:08,880 --> 00:26:13,080
qualitypodcast@gmail.com is the 
best way to do that. 

392
00:26:13,160 --> 00:26:17,200
And you can download tons of 
stuff from Colorado Quality 

393
00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:21,800
Systems and reach out if you 
want any kind of consulting 

394
00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,760
advice as well. 
COQ, ms.com has that facility 

395
00:26:25,760 --> 00:26:31,080
risk register ready for download
and hopefully it'll be pretty 

396
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,280
helpful. 
OK, well, that will do it for 

397
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:39,640
this little rant. 
Thanks for for listening and 

398
00:26:39,640 --> 00:26:42,000
we'll be back soon with more. 
Thanks. 

399
00:26:42,000 --> 00:26:42,200
Bye.