1 00:00:04,200 --> 00:00:07,600 I'm at Cowan and this is scaling up. 2 00:00:15,800 --> 00:00:18,400 It's really simple to be laser focused when you're small, but 3 00:00:18,400 --> 00:00:21,400 as you get bigger, I think that the focus is the biggest risk 4 00:00:21,400 --> 00:00:24,200 that you have to address, and you need people in the business 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:27,100 that can call you out on it. So, I think it just comes down 6 00:00:27,100 --> 00:00:29,700 to great, people choosing some people as well, that have that 7 00:00:29,700 --> 00:00:31,900 experience that have been through that scale up Journey. 8 00:00:33,400 --> 00:00:37,700 This podcast aims to educate and Inspire by telling the stories 9 00:00:37,700 --> 00:00:41,000 of great growth companies As Told by their CEOs. 10 00:00:41,000 --> 00:00:45,300 And Founders TDM is an Australian based investment firm 11 00:00:45,300 --> 00:00:48,800 that invests globally in fast-growing public, and private 12 00:00:48,800 --> 00:00:53,300 companies for more insights visit our website TDM growth 13 00:00:53,300 --> 00:00:58,000 partners.com. Catherine McConnell, the founder 14 00:00:58,000 --> 00:01:02,500 and CEO of bright is my guest today on scaling up, bright is 15 00:01:02,500 --> 00:01:05,300 revolutionizing how Australians are financing and 16 00:01:05,300 --> 00:01:08,600 decentralizing, sustainable energy solutions in their homes. 17 00:01:09,000 --> 00:01:12,300 A former Macquarie banker and mother of two Catherine, 18 00:01:12,300 --> 00:01:15,500 initially mortgage, the family home to go after the opportunity 19 00:01:15,500 --> 00:01:18,900 of becoming the leading Consumer Finance business in the space, 20 00:01:19,300 --> 00:01:23,700 and that she has bright has now. Financed 10% of the solar 21 00:01:23,700 --> 00:01:26,800 installations in Australia and processed over Billion dollars 22 00:01:26,800 --> 00:01:29,200 of applications across 90 thousand homes. 23 00:01:29,500 --> 00:01:32,800 Recently having secured a hundred million dollar, funding 24 00:01:32,800 --> 00:01:36,300 round, brightest driven deeper into the value chain, becoming 25 00:01:36,300 --> 00:01:39,300 an energy retailer. This is a far-reaching 26 00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:42,400 conversation from the business itself being at the Forefront of 27 00:01:42,400 --> 00:01:45,400 sustainable investing. In Australia to the scaling. 28 00:01:45,400 --> 00:01:49,700 Challenges of remote onboarding at scale, bright is a beacon on 29 00:01:49,700 --> 00:01:52,800 so many fronts as to what is possible as one of Australia's 30 00:01:52,800 --> 00:01:55,000 fastest-growing private companies. 31 00:01:56,100 --> 00:01:59,000 Here at TDM, were always trying to create content relevant for 32 00:01:59,000 --> 00:02:01,800 Founders leadership teams and investors alike. 33 00:02:02,000 --> 00:02:04,600 And since our last podcast series, you may have missed some 34 00:02:04,600 --> 00:02:07,700 of this including Harry moots. Look at why the title 35 00:02:07,700 --> 00:02:09,900 acquisition by square makes perfect sense. 36 00:02:10,100 --> 00:02:13,100 Despite at first glance and audio streaming platform being 37 00:02:13,100 --> 00:02:15,900 bought by a payments business. Not feeling the most natural of 38 00:02:15,900 --> 00:02:19,900 fits the best place to find. All our TDM content is on our 39 00:02:19,900 --> 00:02:22,500 website or across our social channels. 40 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:25,500 The links are in the show notes and as always, you can get in 41 00:02:25,500 --> 00:02:28,200 touch with me. On Twitter at Eddie Cowan. 42 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,400 I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Kathryn 43 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:35,800 McConnell. Catherine, welcome to scaling 44 00:02:35,800 --> 00:02:37,700 up. I must admit I have wanted to 45 00:02:37,700 --> 00:02:41,000 have you on this show for a couple of Seasons now, but 46 00:02:41,200 --> 00:02:44,700 thankfully, finally have managed to track you down. 47 00:02:44,800 --> 00:02:47,600 I would love as a great place to start. 48 00:02:47,900 --> 00:02:51,600 To learn more about you, your own green Journey, your personal 49 00:02:51,600 --> 00:02:54,400 background and your reason for why. 50 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:59,100 When it came to founding bright and great to be here, great, to 51 00:02:59,100 --> 00:03:01,400 be able to finally have this chat. 52 00:03:01,600 --> 00:03:05,500 So, I've been on this journey since And so it's six years now 53 00:03:05,500 --> 00:03:08,400 that I've been the founder and CEO at bright. 54 00:03:08,500 --> 00:03:12,200 And so before being the founder and CEO at this Gala, I had a 55 00:03:12,200 --> 00:03:15,300 really long career in investment banking at Macquarie bank. 56 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:19,000 So I was there, 14 years in total also had worked in the 57 00:03:19,000 --> 00:03:21,400 government Treasury and Department of Finance. 58 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:26,600 And so never had aspirations to be an entrepreneur and you know, 59 00:03:26,600 --> 00:03:28,900 never in my wildest dreams would I have imagined that? 60 00:03:28,900 --> 00:03:31,500 I'd be where I am today. The background that I had in 61 00:03:31,500 --> 00:03:34,400 Investment Banking, particularly at Macquarie Bank I gave me a 62 00:03:34,400 --> 00:03:39,200 really strong understanding of risk structuring credit products 63 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,200 and particularly the area that I was in. 64 00:03:41,200 --> 00:03:44,600 I had really great insights into customer problems and customer 65 00:03:44,600 --> 00:03:46,800 friction points. And so, it was there that it was 66 00:03:46,800 --> 00:03:49,600 really a testing ground for me to be able to develop some 67 00:03:49,600 --> 00:03:52,100 different products. Be able to get some feedback on 68 00:03:52,108 --> 00:03:56,400 the ground and it was there that I personally got involved in 69 00:03:56,600 --> 00:03:59,600 solar and batteries. So, in 2010 at home, we got 70 00:03:59,600 --> 00:04:02,800 solar in 2015, we got our first battery. 71 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,100 So we were there. You know, very, very early 72 00:04:05,100 --> 00:04:08,200 adopters for home batteries. And so at that point, I guess by 73 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,400 2015, it was a combination of you know, deep technical 74 00:04:11,600 --> 00:04:14,100 understanding of the energy industry, the energy financing 75 00:04:14,100 --> 00:04:17,300 industry and problems on the ground combined with just 76 00:04:17,300 --> 00:04:20,899 personal interest in solar personal interest in batteries. 77 00:04:20,899 --> 00:04:23,500 And just the understanding of their financial sustainability 78 00:04:23,700 --> 00:04:26,600 that can provide, you know, when you get that feel home. 79 00:04:26,900 --> 00:04:30,200 And so, I left because I saw that, the current products on 80 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:33,200 the market weren't capable of solving the friction, and the 81 00:04:33,200 --> 00:04:36,000 problems that Existed. And I was a big believer in the 82 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:38,600 future of batteries and I thought if they weren't solving 83 00:04:38,600 --> 00:04:42,900 the problems of solar today, you know, batteries were never going 84 00:04:42,900 --> 00:04:47,400 to be taken up. And so I left because I thought 85 00:04:47,400 --> 00:04:50,300 that with my background and my personal interest that I could 86 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,900 could solve these problems. And the first problem I wanted 87 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:56,500 to solve was The Upfront cost. And so, if you could remove The 88 00:04:56,500 --> 00:04:59,300 Upfront cost for people that wanted to make their home, 89 00:04:59,300 --> 00:05:03,100 sustainable and wanting to get solar removing that upfront cost 90 00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:06,400 and spreading those Repayments over time, enabled that customer 91 00:05:06,400 --> 00:05:08,800 to be able to align the repayments With the Energy 92 00:05:08,800 --> 00:05:11,300 savings. They be making from solar and so 93 00:05:11,300 --> 00:05:13,500 it was pretty much a no-brainer, it was just, you know, 94 00:05:13,500 --> 00:05:16,900 economically made sense and then it had all of these other 95 00:05:16,900 --> 00:05:18,900 environmental and sustainable benefits. 96 00:05:18,900 --> 00:05:21,000 And so, for me, it just made sense. 97 00:05:21,100 --> 00:05:24,200 And I've been really lucky that I was able to build the business 98 00:05:24,200 --> 00:05:27,200 that solved that initial challenge that customers had in 99 00:05:27,200 --> 00:05:30,400 accessing a sustainable home. Well, dig into bright. 100 00:05:30,500 --> 00:05:33,000 I'm going to stick with this founding story for the moment, 101 00:05:33,000 --> 00:05:34,500 like so many. Founders. 102 00:05:34,500 --> 00:05:37,900 It feels as though you saw the problem initially from the 103 00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:41,500 consumer lens and there was a problem to be solved for the 104 00:05:41,500 --> 00:05:44,100 consumer. And then your domain expertise 105 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:48,700 around financing got plugged into what became evidently an 106 00:05:48,700 --> 00:05:51,100 obsession around. Solving this did you feel like a 107 00:05:51,100 --> 00:05:55,500 repressed entrepreneur in many ways at any stage, nothing 108 00:05:55,500 --> 00:05:57,300 smells like a vanilla corporate job. 109 00:05:57,300 --> 00:05:58,600 Like Macquarie Bank in Australia. 110 00:05:58,600 --> 00:06:00,300 There must have been something deep inside. 111 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:04,800 That said, I want to break free. No, I never did Lemonade's those 112 00:06:04,800 --> 00:06:08,100 never never had side businesses. I was actually really happy 113 00:06:08,100 --> 00:06:10,200 taking home a paycheck and a bonus once a year. 114 00:06:11,300 --> 00:06:14,000 I thought it was, you know, a lot of financial stability. 115 00:06:14,200 --> 00:06:17,100 There was a lot of prestige Associated working there. 116 00:06:17,400 --> 00:06:20,200 And for me, you know, I would have been really happy to have 117 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:21,900 risen up those ranks to be honest. 118 00:06:21,900 --> 00:06:25,100 And so it's quite interesting when I reflect on like, how I 119 00:06:25,100 --> 00:06:27,400 left, why I left like, what was that trigger? 120 00:06:27,800 --> 00:06:29,800 That's the most intriguing part still? 121 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:32,200 When I look back. It doesn't all make sense. 122 00:06:32,400 --> 00:06:35,600 It's why I left and I know I have the raisins and I know why 123 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,400 I say I did it, but it's quite a powerful thing. 124 00:06:38,500 --> 00:06:41,100 I guess that happened. That gave me the confidence to 125 00:06:41,400 --> 00:06:43,300 leave. It was their thread of personal 126 00:06:43,300 --> 00:06:46,300 values, amongst that was there something just wanting to do 127 00:06:46,300 --> 00:06:52,200 something better for the world. I had a strong belief that the 128 00:06:52,200 --> 00:06:57,400 benefits of solar were real and Battery opportunity and uptake 129 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:02,000 was going to be huge and I felt, I guess that at that time it was 130 00:07:02,000 --> 00:07:05,600 a A fringe issue and then absolute need for this type of 131 00:07:05,600 --> 00:07:10,200 product, wasn't a priority and the absolute need for why it 132 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:13,100 needed to be available at the point-of-sale, like just wasn't 133 00:07:13,100 --> 00:07:16,100 understood and the risk was saying, but the opportunity was 134 00:07:16,100 --> 00:07:18,100 insane. And so all of those things I 135 00:07:18,108 --> 00:07:22,800 guess, made me frustrated, and it made me frustrated because 136 00:07:22,800 --> 00:07:25,300 the benefit to the customer was just so real. 137 00:07:25,600 --> 00:07:28,900 That the opportunity ahead was so big and I just couldn't 138 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:31,500 couldn't do my day job anymore because I just couldn't see past 139 00:07:31,500 --> 00:07:33,600 that opportunity. And pass that problem. 140 00:07:33,600 --> 00:07:36,800 Sorry that was really the impetus for why I made the move 141 00:07:37,000 --> 00:07:40,000 in Australia and ultimately the world will be grateful for that. 142 00:07:40,000 --> 00:07:45,000 Let's dig into the business. Correct me if I'm wrong but act 143 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:47,500 14 bright. Let's say the first four or five 144 00:07:47,500 --> 00:07:50,300 years as you are starting to scale up was about this Consumer 145 00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:54,100 Finance piece for solar and batteries buy now pay later 146 00:07:54,100 --> 00:07:57,600 products for, not only those but also Home Improvements of which 147 00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:01,400 you've think Finance, maybe one in 10 new residential solar 148 00:08:01,400 --> 00:08:03,700 installations in. Australia, which is incredible 149 00:08:03,700 --> 00:08:06,700 and now Australia leads the world in rooftop solar 150 00:08:06,700 --> 00:08:10,400 penetration and you've been at the Forefront of that act to it. 151 00:08:10,400 --> 00:08:14,400 Seems from the outside is not just about financing the assets. 152 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:18,800 It's about becoming a retailer. And also helping the customers 153 00:08:18,900 --> 00:08:21,100 realize revenue from their solar and batteries. 154 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:24,400 And so this sort of Jen tailing is going to create a huge 155 00:08:24,400 --> 00:08:29,100 opportunity. The question is massive Market 156 00:08:29,200 --> 00:08:32,100 when you were sitting down thinking about bright and what 157 00:08:32,299 --> 00:08:37,400 Could become was it always the plan or has it just evolved that 158 00:08:37,400 --> 00:08:40,799 you really saw that the value chain was broken and needed 159 00:08:40,799 --> 00:08:45,600 fixing I'm absolutely fascinated by how the business plan in a 160 00:08:45,600 --> 00:08:49,600 sense has evolved over time actually found my first pitch 161 00:08:49,600 --> 00:08:53,100 that I did when I was trying to raise seed investment and so 162 00:08:53,100 --> 00:08:56,100 I've gone back and challenge myself, you know, because 163 00:08:56,100 --> 00:08:58,600 sometimes I think you can lose Clarity along the way, but I 164 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:02,100 found it and the big story was bright. 165 00:09:02,300 --> 00:09:04,800 Believes in the battery opportunity and brights, being 166 00:09:04,800 --> 00:09:08,000 created to enable the acceleration and the uptake of 167 00:09:08,000 --> 00:09:11,700 batteries. And so, what I believed in was 168 00:09:11,700 --> 00:09:15,100 that opportunity in the benefits that customers could get from, 169 00:09:15,500 --> 00:09:19,100 not just generating your own energy but storing that energy, 170 00:09:19,600 --> 00:09:21,700 just that storage of the energy that everyone. 171 00:09:21,700 --> 00:09:24,500 Believed in Zola everyone believed, you know, in 2010 172 00:09:24,500 --> 00:09:26,700 there was a solar boom and everyone knew that you can 173 00:09:26,700 --> 00:09:29,500 create your own energy but what was missing was like storing 174 00:09:29,500 --> 00:09:32,000 that energy so you could save that power When the Sun Goes 175 00:09:32,000 --> 00:09:35,300 Down, And you can power your own home and not just generate your 176 00:09:35,300 --> 00:09:38,100 own energy during the day, but use it during the night. 177 00:09:38,100 --> 00:09:40,700 And so that's what I wanted to unlock. 178 00:09:41,000 --> 00:09:44,600 And when I started the business, I thought Finance would unlock 179 00:09:44,600 --> 00:09:47,200 everything. So I thought the biggest barrier 180 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,800 was just The Upfront cost. Absolutely was for solar 3 181 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:52,400 million homes. We passed a milestone in 182 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,700 Australia, this week, 3, million homes have solar, but 110,000 183 00:09:56,700 --> 00:10:00,700 homes, have batteries in 2021. And so, you know, when I look 184 00:10:00,700 --> 00:10:04,300 back at 2015, I at 2020 would be the year would be in a battery. 185 00:10:04,300 --> 00:10:06,200 Boom. And it's not happening. 186 00:10:06,400 --> 00:10:09,000 And so, when I reflect on, you know, the problem I was all-in 187 00:10:09,000 --> 00:10:11,900 when I set up the business, the problem I was solving was I 188 00:10:11,900 --> 00:10:15,000 wanted people to get batteries and I want to remove the 189 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,000 friction that stop people from getting batteries and to do 190 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,500 that, I set up capabilities to remove The Upfront price, which 191 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:24,400 was financed. And so I thought Finance would 192 00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:27,100 solve everything and I guess the realization is last year. 193 00:10:27,300 --> 00:10:30,900 Finance isn't unlocking batteries and so as we dig 194 00:10:30,900 --> 00:10:35,500 deeper to look at why I guess the biggest reason that I say is 195 00:10:35,500 --> 00:10:39,400 that solar has a revenue stream that's packaged into that 196 00:10:39,400 --> 00:10:42,000 purchase. And so you get revenue from 197 00:10:42,000 --> 00:10:45,600 government STC, certificates up front set off against the out 198 00:10:45,600 --> 00:10:48,400 front price. You can also earn a revenue 199 00:10:48,400 --> 00:10:51,100 stream via a feed-in tariff, which is earned over time, and 200 00:10:51,100 --> 00:10:53,400 that's packaged in there. You know, with high confidence 201 00:10:53,400 --> 00:10:56,900 in that ongoing Revenue stream, that batteries don't have that. 202 00:10:57,200 --> 00:11:00,600 And so there's a problem there that we need to solve around how 203 00:11:00,600 --> 00:11:04,200 we can help our customers. I have power shift to their home 204 00:11:04,300 --> 00:11:06,600 and make sure it's fair that they earn the revenue stream 205 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:09,400 that batteries can generate. And so that's the part that we 206 00:11:09,400 --> 00:11:12,800 need to unlock and also just that Simplicity around how we 207 00:11:12,800 --> 00:11:16,100 can just make it such a simple experience for customers. 208 00:11:16,100 --> 00:11:19,500 When they buy that battery, that they can truly power their home, 209 00:11:19,700 --> 00:11:22,900 they can generate, they can store and all of their energy 210 00:11:22,900 --> 00:11:24,900 needs, all of the revenue, they can generate. 211 00:11:24,900 --> 00:11:27,100 I just packaged up seamlessly for that home. 212 00:11:27,800 --> 00:11:30,900 Love how you're thinking about it and just to kind of dig into 213 00:11:30,900 --> 00:11:34,100 the business model a little Bit more and the key competitive 214 00:11:34,100 --> 00:11:36,400 advantages of it and the opportunities. 215 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:39,700 As you see them, you keep calling out this frictionless 216 00:11:39,700 --> 00:11:42,900 customer experience because ultimately you are a consumer 217 00:11:42,900 --> 00:11:47,500 brand and so I'm really Keen to understand how you're thinking 218 00:11:47,500 --> 00:11:51,000 about building a consumer brand and that's obviously the tip of 219 00:11:51,000 --> 00:11:53,500 the iceberg and below. It is this really powerful 220 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:56,600 business model both on the consumer side and the funding 221 00:11:56,600 --> 00:11:58,600 side. So let's kind of walk through 222 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,600 that but maybe to start with how you're thinking about building a 223 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,800 brand For bright. That was a probably a 224 00:12:04,800 --> 00:12:07,400 realization last year to be honest. 225 00:12:07,400 --> 00:12:10,700 And so when I started the business, I started the business 226 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:12,900 by solving the customers problems through the 227 00:12:12,900 --> 00:12:16,000 distribution channel. So, developing a network of 228 00:12:16,000 --> 00:12:18,200 Partners around the country. So we've got about two and a 229 00:12:18,200 --> 00:12:21,000 half thousand companies that work with us and with their 230 00:12:21,000 --> 00:12:23,800 team, there's about seven or eight thousand people here on 231 00:12:23,800 --> 00:12:28,400 the ground who can use bright to unlock their customers sales and 232 00:12:28,400 --> 00:12:33,000 Ambitions to access solar. So that was Like what we focused 233 00:12:33,000 --> 00:12:35,300 on in the first phase of our growth, building up that 234 00:12:35,300 --> 00:12:36,800 channel. And so, it was only last year 235 00:12:36,800 --> 00:12:38,900 that we realized we hadn't really thought about brand 236 00:12:38,900 --> 00:12:40,800 awareness. I think last year I'd had prior 237 00:12:40,800 --> 00:12:43,600 to the start of last year I had spent 300,000 dollars in 238 00:12:43,600 --> 00:12:47,300 marketing and had one and a half people in the marketing team. 239 00:12:47,600 --> 00:12:52,200 And so part of our series see was to bring in the team, to 240 00:12:52,200 --> 00:12:55,600 develop the brand to identify what that brand was going to be 241 00:12:55,600 --> 00:12:59,300 in the value proposition. And we just a couple of weeks 242 00:12:59,300 --> 00:13:02,000 ago, launched the new logo the brand. 243 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:05,300 And we've got some TV ads coming on next week, ads on radio. 244 00:13:05,300 --> 00:13:09,600 So we now have our plan and we're starting to roll that out. 245 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:13,400 It's a testament to how great a customer experience. 246 00:13:13,400 --> 00:13:17,200 It is to think that six years in is the first real time that 247 00:13:17,200 --> 00:13:20,600 you've had to do any kind of above the line advertising that, 248 00:13:20,800 --> 00:13:23,400 that speaks volumes to the product Market fit. 249 00:13:23,400 --> 00:13:27,300 And you called out part of this frictionless experience is this 250 00:13:27,300 --> 00:13:31,500 Marketplace of Supply being the installers and obviously the 251 00:13:31,500 --> 00:13:34,100 demand coming The consumers. So not only are you trying to 252 00:13:34,108 --> 00:13:37,800 scale Consumer Finance company? But there's this Marketplace 253 00:13:37,800 --> 00:13:41,400 element but that, of course provides a wonderful Network 254 00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,300 effect. Once it starts flowing, it does 255 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:46,200 you often have the Chicken and the Egg problem? 256 00:13:46,300 --> 00:13:48,900 Effectively, what do you build first? 257 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,000 What do you grow first? Do you go first with brand so 258 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:54,800 then you can attract the partners you know or do you go 259 00:13:54,800 --> 00:13:57,200 first with partners and and so that's something that I've 260 00:13:57,200 --> 00:14:01,100 definitely been conscious or and I chose the former to go first. 261 00:14:01,400 --> 00:14:04,500 However Are you need brand awareness to help those Partners 262 00:14:04,500 --> 00:14:06,300 at the point of sale? You know, when they're saying 263 00:14:06,300 --> 00:14:09,000 how about bright? And so you have to co-invest in 264 00:14:09,000 --> 00:14:12,400 both sides and both sides, add weight to each other. 265 00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:14,900 So the more direct relationships we have with customers. 266 00:14:15,300 --> 00:14:19,100 What we do is we're able to provide qualified leads to our 267 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:20,800 vendors. That helps them increase their 268 00:14:20,800 --> 00:14:24,200 sales and I was speaking to one of the vendors a couple of weeks 269 00:14:24,200 --> 00:14:27,100 ago and he was saying he's getting so many qualified leads 270 00:14:27,100 --> 00:14:29,800 through bright that he's stopped his Google and Facebook ads 271 00:14:29,800 --> 00:14:32,000 because he can't actually service all of them. 272 00:14:32,200 --> 00:14:35,000 That he's getting through now. And so that's that's where we 273 00:14:35,000 --> 00:14:37,200 want to land. That's a great example, that 274 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,200 just that benefit that you can provide to both sides, both of 275 00:14:40,200 --> 00:14:43,100 our customer bases and then how that can create network effects 276 00:14:43,100 --> 00:14:46,400 effectively, and be this continuous cycle that 277 00:14:46,400 --> 00:14:51,100 effectively supports and feeds, both consumers, and also 278 00:14:51,100 --> 00:14:52,800 Partners who operate in that space. 279 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:57,200 Of course, the more supplies you have or Partners as your calling 280 00:14:57,200 --> 00:15:00,100 and the more utility for the consumers and also gives you 281 00:15:00,100 --> 00:15:04,300 more permission I guess to I add greater features and you know 282 00:15:04,300 --> 00:15:07,300 that creates more utility and all of a sudden that flywheel 283 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:09,500 can really start spinning quickly and it feels as though. 284 00:15:09,500 --> 00:15:13,100 That's probably where you're almost at at this point in time, 285 00:15:13,100 --> 00:15:15,600 things are really getting going for bright. 286 00:15:15,800 --> 00:15:18,700 I guess the only other thing I want to call out on the business 287 00:15:18,700 --> 00:15:20,300 model front. We've kind of touched on this 288 00:15:20,300 --> 00:15:22,800 consumer side. There has to be some secret 289 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,400 sauce on the financing side and that I'd call that the back end, 290 00:15:26,400 --> 00:15:30,000 the less sexy stuff, but ultimately the solar or the Home 291 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,000 Improvements, or the batteries need to be financed. 292 00:15:32,200 --> 00:15:34,200 This is where your domain expertise. 293 00:15:34,500 --> 00:15:37,900 Probably shines. Can you talk through the secret 294 00:15:37,900 --> 00:15:40,700 sauce of the financing? Peace, Fulbright. 295 00:15:41,200 --> 00:15:43,700 Yeah, absolutely. It's like the iceberg. 296 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:46,800 What's underneath is so much bigger than what presents on the 297 00:15:46,800 --> 00:15:51,200 surface. And from day one, I knew that in 298 00:15:51,200 --> 00:15:54,600 order to have a compelling proposition for consumers for 299 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,400 our customers, that we had to have a pathway to having very 300 00:15:58,400 --> 00:16:02,300 cost-effective capital. And so we also had to To 301 00:16:02,300 --> 00:16:06,500 effectively own the criteria around who we can lend to and 302 00:16:06,500 --> 00:16:08,200 then how we manage those customers. 303 00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,400 So, we effectively had to build our own debt warehouse and we 304 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:14,200 have to have a pathway to public debt markets. 305 00:16:14,500 --> 00:16:17,600 And so, right from day one, when I was Raising Equity, I was also 306 00:16:17,600 --> 00:16:20,000 raising debt. And so when I did my first seed 307 00:16:20,000 --> 00:16:22,700 round, I was also concurrently raising my first 10 million 308 00:16:22,700 --> 00:16:26,200 dollar debt warehouse. And so it was only, you know, so 309 00:16:26,200 --> 00:16:30,200 really three three to four years of being in the market. 310 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:32,700 We did our first 190 million Issuance. 311 00:16:32,700 --> 00:16:35,700 And it's very complex. It's very expensive to be able 312 00:16:35,700 --> 00:16:38,700 to put the structures in place to enable that from day one. 313 00:16:39,100 --> 00:16:43,100 And you know, I can do a whole session on this round, what you 314 00:16:43,100 --> 00:16:45,200 need to put up. But yeah, it's very expensive 315 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:48,200 and it's more complex actually than the equity and then 316 00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:51,200 thinking through how you set up the procedures behind that. 317 00:16:51,200 --> 00:16:54,600 So effectively when people give you money to be able to put in 318 00:16:54,600 --> 00:16:57,300 these debt warehouses, they want to have the confidence that the 319 00:16:57,300 --> 00:17:02,000 policies that you have will be executed and so consistently. 320 00:17:02,100 --> 00:17:06,000 How we write our owned, how we, you know, create credit, how we 321 00:17:06,000 --> 00:17:08,500 service those customers who are in our portfolio. 322 00:17:08,700 --> 00:17:12,099 When people are late in paying do we follow our policies around 323 00:17:12,099 --> 00:17:13,700 how we're going to collect that fun. 324 00:17:14,000 --> 00:17:17,900 And then, can we keep our number of customers who are paying late 325 00:17:17,900 --> 00:17:22,000 or aren't paying within the, the forecast that we've committed 326 00:17:22,000 --> 00:17:23,300 to? And so there's a lot of 327 00:17:23,300 --> 00:17:26,000 complexity there as an additional two regulations that 328 00:17:26,000 --> 00:17:29,400 you have to follow and so that in itself is a Minefield. 329 00:17:29,400 --> 00:17:31,900 But, you know, I think we're doing a great job. 330 00:17:32,200 --> 00:17:34,700 Evidenced by the fact. This year, we got a Triple-A 331 00:17:34,700 --> 00:17:37,700 rating in a green bond which shows it's really high. 332 00:17:37,700 --> 00:17:40,500 Quality credit, you know, the underlying portfolio. 333 00:17:40,700 --> 00:17:42,400 Absolutely. I think one thing to call out 334 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,600 that is Australia's first, 100% green, asset-backed, securitized 335 00:17:46,600 --> 00:17:49,900 Bond. So not just making it easy for 336 00:17:49,900 --> 00:17:52,000 the consumers, but on the financing side, you're really 337 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,800 breaking new ground. Absolutely. 338 00:17:54,800 --> 00:17:58,800 And so, what that does is initially when I started, I was 339 00:17:58,800 --> 00:18:02,500 using Equity, the McDonald family home loan, Maybe it was 340 00:18:02,500 --> 00:18:06,400 dead, but so I was using equity and to be able to fund that's 341 00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:09,700 not a scalable solution. Catherine, it's not. 342 00:18:09,900 --> 00:18:12,200 And then I, when I raised Equity, I was using equity and 343 00:18:12,200 --> 00:18:15,800 so, you know, it's fantastic to be able to access this step 344 00:18:15,800 --> 00:18:17,700 that's scalable. It's cost-effective. 345 00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:21,200 And then it means that the equity that I have, I can use in 346 00:18:21,200 --> 00:18:24,000 other areas of the business so I can use to be able to look at 347 00:18:24,000 --> 00:18:26,200 data and Automation and product creation. 348 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:29,200 It's just not sustainable having a business where you have a high 349 00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:32,900 cost of funds to be able to fund your, you know, loan, And 350 00:18:32,900 --> 00:18:34,100 created a lot of freedom and opportunity. 351 00:18:34,100 --> 00:18:37,400 Now, to be able to use that Equity to scale other parts of 352 00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:39,300 the business. It seems to me that this is 353 00:18:39,300 --> 00:18:43,000 really where the competitive Advantage is driven home for 354 00:18:43,000 --> 00:18:45,900 your business. Do you think that from a debt 355 00:18:45,900 --> 00:18:49,400 financing point of view that in fact you are at the Forefront of 356 00:18:49,400 --> 00:18:53,100 maybe the greatest Tailwind of Our Generation that is green 357 00:18:53,100 --> 00:18:55,800 investing. I think there was a statistic in 358 00:18:55,808 --> 00:18:58,200 The Economist the other day that investors have poured more than 359 00:18:58,200 --> 00:19:02,600 500 billion dollars this year alone into energy Position. 360 00:19:02,600 --> 00:19:04,700 And that's sort of shorthand for decarbonizing. 361 00:19:04,700 --> 00:19:07,600 Everything from energy to transport, you name it. 362 00:19:08,100 --> 00:19:12,000 It must feel as though the wind is in your sales when it comes 363 00:19:12,000 --> 00:19:15,200 to the financing peace. Yeah, I remember when I started 364 00:19:15,200 --> 00:19:18,200 I thought 2020 onwards. The towel wins would be there 365 00:19:18,200 --> 00:19:20,800 and I think that's why I left the urgency was there that he 366 00:19:20,800 --> 00:19:24,200 just had to see this in 2015 or you're going to miss the window 367 00:19:24,200 --> 00:19:27,300 of opportunity that I thought would come from 2020 and Beyond. 368 00:19:27,300 --> 00:19:29,700 And so, the opportunity comes on many fronts. 369 00:19:29,700 --> 00:19:33,600 It's not just with our customers who Wanting to be empowered and 370 00:19:33,600 --> 00:19:35,800 owning their own power, you know, they wanting to be power 371 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:37,100 generators. So it's not just with our 372 00:19:37,100 --> 00:19:39,800 customers. It is also with people who want 373 00:19:39,800 --> 00:19:43,400 exposure to this underlying asset class so they have ESG 374 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:47,500 requirements as companies. They may also have requirements 375 00:19:47,500 --> 00:19:50,000 that are pushed on them as fart of government. 376 00:19:50,000 --> 00:19:53,700 The cop 26 or Net Zero targets and then you will. 377 00:19:53,700 --> 00:19:57,500 So, you know, we're really lucky because our employees 378 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,300 particularly Millennials and gen said they also want to Work for 379 00:20:02,300 --> 00:20:05,200 companies with purpose and and they need this and they want 380 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:06,700 this. So you've got Tailwinds on so 381 00:20:06,700 --> 00:20:09,400 many fronts. We've got a war on Talent. 382 00:20:09,400 --> 00:20:11,500 We can actually hire the best people because they can work. 383 00:20:11,500 --> 00:20:15,200 In businesses that are have exposure to sustainability. 384 00:20:15,400 --> 00:20:18,500 We can actually support people corporates who want to invest in 385 00:20:18,500 --> 00:20:21,700 this type of asset class by creating a machine that can 386 00:20:21,700 --> 00:20:25,700 continue to deliver this type of debt opportunity and Underneath 387 00:20:25,700 --> 00:20:28,600 It, All were solving customers problems and creating, you know, 388 00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:31,000 greater affordability and sustainability for them. 389 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:34,200 So it's this. Triple threat and overnight 390 00:20:34,200 --> 00:20:38,800 success story. Everything always is, you're 391 00:20:38,800 --> 00:20:42,000 listening to scaling up with Ed coward, a podcast. 392 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:44,300 Brought to you by TDM growth Partners. 393 00:20:44,900 --> 00:20:49,000 Visit the website TDM growth Partners.com or for interesting 394 00:20:49,000 --> 00:20:52,800 insights and commentary. Follow us on Twitter at TDM 395 00:20:52,800 --> 00:20:57,100 underscore growth. We'll come back to the the 396 00:20:57,100 --> 00:20:59,400 hiring piece because I do want to carve out some time, 397 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,000 specifically from that. But while on the business model, 398 00:21:02,000 --> 00:21:05,300 are there any other scaling challenges you want to call out 399 00:21:05,300 --> 00:21:08,600 that I've kind of missed around, you know, the Consumer Finance 400 00:21:08,600 --> 00:21:11,400 piece or the marketplace piece, or the energy piece. 401 00:21:11,400 --> 00:21:15,000 But what have been the really big challenges that you've had 402 00:21:15,000 --> 00:21:17,800 to face as a founder and as a business over the last five or 403 00:21:17,800 --> 00:21:20,400 six years. So some of the challenges have 404 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:25,300 been around automation, the underlying customer demographic 405 00:21:25,300 --> 00:21:30,100 that we're Dealing with and also how we've approached the market. 406 00:21:30,100 --> 00:21:33,400 It's been via third parties so we weren't physically present at 407 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:36,100 that point of sale. There's a lot of risk there that 408 00:21:36,100 --> 00:21:38,400 you're exposed to and as you scale. 409 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:41,000 It's not you know you know exposed to hundreds of millions 410 00:21:41,000 --> 00:21:43,100 of dollars over this type of risk. 411 00:21:43,100 --> 00:21:45,900 And so that's been something we've absolutely focused on as 412 00:21:45,900 --> 00:21:49,200 we scale and I think it's a super power of our business but 413 00:21:49,200 --> 00:21:51,700 also the automation is really interesting because a lot of the 414 00:21:51,700 --> 00:21:54,900 demographics of the homeowners that we deal with, they don't 415 00:21:54,900 --> 00:21:56,100 trust you. No, sir. 416 00:21:56,100 --> 00:21:57,900 Where you have to do, bang, verification. 417 00:21:58,000 --> 00:22:00,100 They don't trust giving their password away to their bank 418 00:22:00,100 --> 00:22:03,400 account to someone. And so, you know, you do have a 419 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:06,600 lot of customers who want to interact with you and their 420 00:22:06,600 --> 00:22:09,600 preferences are. I think they've been accelerated 421 00:22:09,600 --> 00:22:11,200 through covid. Getting more comfortable with 422 00:22:11,200 --> 00:22:14,200 digital, but it's been something that we've had to navigate and 423 00:22:14,200 --> 00:22:16,400 we asked or navigating around Automation and just how to make 424 00:22:16,400 --> 00:22:19,500 it easy and a great experience that streamlined and scalable 425 00:22:19,500 --> 00:22:22,700 given the underlying demographics and sales 426 00:22:22,700 --> 00:22:24,700 environment. So, you know, I think there's 427 00:22:24,700 --> 00:22:27,400 been something we have. And we are getting better and 428 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:30,400 better at to be able to do this on an even bigger. 429 00:22:30,400 --> 00:22:33,200 Scale, you know, along the way that's created different 430 00:22:33,200 --> 00:22:36,200 problems and you don't want to pile on people, you want to, you 431 00:22:36,200 --> 00:22:39,100 know, create automation but then how you kind of balance this 432 00:22:39,100 --> 00:22:42,200 along the way when you are in this this type of growth, that's 433 00:22:42,200 --> 00:22:44,600 a good call out particularly around trying to scale the 434 00:22:44,600 --> 00:22:46,200 technology. It's something that I certainly 435 00:22:46,200 --> 00:22:49,000 hadn't touched on and maybe we can touch on it in the hiring 436 00:22:49,000 --> 00:22:51,900 peace. Let's change gears a little bit 437 00:22:51,900 --> 00:22:56,500 to the scaling of the people and culture of this is Probably the 438 00:22:56,500 --> 00:23:00,200 biggest scaling pain point for most Founders, particularly ones 439 00:23:00,200 --> 00:23:02,400 that are going through hyper-growth like yourself. 440 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:04,900 Let's start with your own leadership. 441 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:09,000 Scaling Journey may be what the company vision for the culture 442 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:12,300 was and how those values of the business came about. 443 00:23:12,400 --> 00:23:16,700 Yeah, as I've reflected along the way, a lot of my values at 444 00:23:16,700 --> 00:23:20,400 bright have been formed by how I have or have not been treated 445 00:23:20,400 --> 00:23:23,500 prior to starting bright in the last 11 years, I've always 446 00:23:23,500 --> 00:23:25,500 worked in a team that had only males. 447 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:28,600 You know, Mauser great. But, you know, the only thing on 448 00:23:28,600 --> 00:23:31,900 the team and I went through two pregnancies to maternity leaves, 449 00:23:31,900 --> 00:23:35,300 I needed flexibility, after I came back and it was really a 450 00:23:35,300 --> 00:23:36,900 different world than it is today. 451 00:23:36,900 --> 00:23:41,000 You know, I got promoted once in 11 years once in 11 years. 452 00:23:41,000 --> 00:23:43,800 And so it was quite frustrating because, you know, I had exactly 453 00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:46,900 the same skill sets, then as I do today, and it's just always 454 00:23:46,900 --> 00:23:49,400 amazing for me to say I'm doing today. 455 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,200 What I did then and won promotion. 456 00:23:51,200 --> 00:23:53,900 And so I always think about fairness, you know, I always 457 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:55,600 think about fairness as I watched colleague. 458 00:23:55,700 --> 00:23:59,000 Eggs, get promoted. And I felt a lot of anger, you 459 00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:01,500 know, I saw my husband working and then he also would have 460 00:24:01,500 --> 00:24:04,400 loved to have had more time with our kids and not to have had to 461 00:24:04,400 --> 00:24:07,200 have made the choice about has to fall on one person or both 462 00:24:07,200 --> 00:24:10,500 carried by both. And I also saw her along the way 463 00:24:10,500 --> 00:24:12,600 that, you know, there was a period where he was able to take 464 00:24:12,600 --> 00:24:14,900 some time off and be that primary care and how much 465 00:24:14,900 --> 00:24:16,300 happiness it gave him and the kids. 466 00:24:16,300 --> 00:24:20,400 And so I think values that bright has are based on values 467 00:24:20,500 --> 00:24:22,600 and experiences that I've had to date. 468 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:26,400 And so we have value I brought it together. 469 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:28,700 How we're stronger together, we're stronger as a team. 470 00:24:28,700 --> 00:24:32,000 The individual doesn't win. So you know that's a really big 471 00:24:32,000 --> 00:24:33,800 one. We have one called the ball. 472 00:24:33,800 --> 00:24:35,400 It's around High performing teams. 473 00:24:35,400 --> 00:24:38,400 It's also around how you act when you have to drop the ball. 474 00:24:38,400 --> 00:24:41,200 So you may have to drop the ball because you've got some personal 475 00:24:41,200 --> 00:24:43,600 commitments that you're a high performer, but you've got some 476 00:24:43,600 --> 00:24:46,200 things and you just you have to leave because you've got these 477 00:24:46,200 --> 00:24:48,400 things on and you're in the middle of something and it's how 478 00:24:48,400 --> 00:24:51,200 we support each other, you know, through life up and down and 479 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400 life is personal. It's not just work and I think 480 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:56,800 it's creating an inclusive. Eve, and really genuine 481 00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:00,700 environment where you can have a life outside of work and you can 482 00:25:00,700 --> 00:25:01,900 still be a really high performer. 483 00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:04,000 Awesome. Yeah, brought really has become 484 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,200 a beacon in this and is attracting great people because 485 00:25:07,200 --> 00:25:09,100 of it, I think. And again, correct me if I'm 486 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,300 wrong that over half your leadership, team is female. 487 00:25:11,300 --> 00:25:15,200 So that's playing out in part of your previous experience and 488 00:25:15,200 --> 00:25:18,600 this inclusion piece, you only need to read through the the 489 00:25:18,600 --> 00:25:21,700 reviews online, as to how you're scaling this culture, what about 490 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:24,300 your own role? How that's changed over the last 491 00:25:24,300 --> 00:25:28,200 five years, as a Founder then, more of a, you're still the 492 00:25:28,200 --> 00:25:31,500 founder, but more of a CEO and leader of people how that 493 00:25:31,500 --> 00:25:33,300 Evolution and how you've dealt with that. 494 00:25:33,300 --> 00:25:37,300 Because as it sounds, you weren't a leader of many at 495 00:25:37,300 --> 00:25:39,000 Macquarie. Yeah, I agree. 496 00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:42,200 I think at the end I had one person that was reporting into 497 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:43,100 me. So you've got hungry. 498 00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:48,300 Never let anyone I think in that first stage of growth year and 499 00:25:48,300 --> 00:25:51,700 doer and then as you scale you know you start to build teams 500 00:25:51,700 --> 00:25:54,900 and I you know, so I try to never micromanage and the reason 501 00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:57,700 why I Wouldn't try to do that is because I just don't have the 502 00:25:57,700 --> 00:25:59,600 skills that these people have that are coming on. 503 00:25:59,700 --> 00:26:02,600 Like I acknowledge that. And so, I think the leadership 504 00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:06,200 Journey for me, I've been the most aware of this over the last 505 00:26:06,200 --> 00:26:09,900 few years, as I'm bringing on just amazing talent into the 506 00:26:09,900 --> 00:26:12,300 company. And they look up to me for 507 00:26:12,400 --> 00:26:15,100 advice or direction. And, you know, you do have 508 00:26:15,100 --> 00:26:18,300 moments where you question your own ability to be able to give 509 00:26:18,300 --> 00:26:20,100 that to them. When you look back at your own 510 00:26:20,100 --> 00:26:21,700 experience and go, well, I'm not qualified. 511 00:26:21,800 --> 00:26:25,000 You know, should I have done something to have been qualified 512 00:26:25,000 --> 00:26:27,300 to be able to support? Them in the way they need. 513 00:26:27,500 --> 00:26:30,400 And so, you know, I think it's a really interesting challenge for 514 00:26:30,400 --> 00:26:35,200 Founders who find themselves that the CEO of Staff, with 200 515 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,900 500, 1000 people and tens of millions or hundreds of millions 516 00:26:38,900 --> 00:26:40,200 of Revenue that they're generating. 517 00:26:40,200 --> 00:26:44,400 And so it's absolutely. You need to be a fast learner at 518 00:26:44,400 --> 00:26:47,300 every single step of the way in every single part of your role. 519 00:26:47,700 --> 00:26:51,300 And I've been lucky to have had some people along the way that I 520 00:26:51,300 --> 00:26:54,100 can reach out to who've been through the same process, you 521 00:26:54,100 --> 00:26:57,000 know, with my own team. I learn a lot from them every 522 00:26:57,000 --> 00:26:59,800 single day but just thinking through, you know, what is 523 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,200 leadership? What is the job of a CEO? 524 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,700 And what does that mean? I need to provide the company 525 00:27:04,700 --> 00:27:08,000 and just the people who report to me really practically. 526 00:27:08,100 --> 00:27:10,700 It's something that I think through and read a lot on 527 00:27:10,800 --> 00:27:12,300 because I want to be great at this job. 528 00:27:12,400 --> 00:27:15,500 So yeah you're going to have to be to achieve the ambition and 529 00:27:15,500 --> 00:27:17,400 you will on that journey. Is there one thing that comes to 530 00:27:17,400 --> 00:27:21,600 mind that you are very focused on in terms of scaling, your own 531 00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:25,400 leadership capability. I've started probably reaching 532 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:28,200 out Formerly. Now, so we're going through a 533 00:27:28,200 --> 00:27:31,600 process in the company. We've engaged a company called 534 00:27:31,600 --> 00:27:36,200 culture equation. And so, going through exec team, 535 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:40,200 coaching individual coaching to be able to just have someone 536 00:27:40,200 --> 00:27:44,600 that you can speak to you, to be able to challenge you and to be 537 00:27:44,600 --> 00:27:47,500 able to talk through common pitfalls of downfalls that 538 00:27:47,500 --> 00:27:50,600 leaders or CEOs you know have had in the past and to be able 539 00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:53,400 to you know work through. Are they blind spots for you? 540 00:27:53,400 --> 00:27:55,800 So I think that's been interesting that something I've 541 00:27:55,800 --> 00:27:58,400 never done before. I'm finding that useful, you 542 00:27:58,400 --> 00:27:59,900 know? And the only other thing I think 543 00:28:00,100 --> 00:28:03,600 everyone has an individual style and so my style has been. 544 00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,600 I haven't wanted, you know, formal mentors, or formal 545 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,300 coaches. And I prefer to just reach that 546 00:28:09,300 --> 00:28:13,100 ad hoc, as I have a specific need, but I think that you just 547 00:28:13,100 --> 00:28:17,300 have to work out there, what best suits you you called out 548 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,400 earlier around the advantage of being this purpose native 549 00:28:21,400 --> 00:28:23,600 company. When it comes to hiring this 550 00:28:23,700 --> 00:28:27,800 younger generation, that is Certainly very focused on the 551 00:28:27,800 --> 00:28:31,300 time they spend and how they're going to spend it being aligned 552 00:28:31,300 --> 00:28:34,200 to their own personal values. What are the some of the 553 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:38,100 mechanics of hiring people? In this sort of purpose? 554 00:28:38,100 --> 00:28:41,800 Native, driven mindset, is there anything that you'd like to call 555 00:28:41,800 --> 00:28:44,300 out? I think, at the start it's easy 556 00:28:44,300 --> 00:28:48,500 because I could be involved in interviewing processes or your 557 00:28:48,500 --> 00:28:51,900 personal brand could be quite convincing or, you know, you 558 00:28:51,900 --> 00:28:54,000 could personally influence hiring. 559 00:28:54,300 --> 00:28:57,500 But when you're hiring, you know, So 50 plus people a month, 560 00:28:57,500 --> 00:28:59,800 you personally can't have that impact as a founder. 561 00:28:59,800 --> 00:29:02,600 And so the way you can do that is through your mission, your 562 00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,000 purpose, and your values and making sure they're clearly 563 00:29:06,000 --> 00:29:09,700 understood, making sure they lived by everyone in the company 564 00:29:09,800 --> 00:29:12,700 and making sure that, you know, external in people know what 565 00:29:12,700 --> 00:29:15,000 they are. And so they become, you know, 566 00:29:15,000 --> 00:29:17,800 they become your scaling engine or your scaling machine 567 00:29:17,800 --> 00:29:19,800 effectively. And that's what we really work 568 00:29:19,800 --> 00:29:22,100 through in the last year. I think it's really easy to say, 569 00:29:22,100 --> 00:29:25,200 you know, we've got these things and I can remember them and 570 00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:27,400 they're written. On the walls that, you know, 571 00:29:27,400 --> 00:29:29,900 we've been through a process where you know, we've challenged 572 00:29:29,900 --> 00:29:32,600 them within the business by starting to do a lot of work on 573 00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,500 what it's like when they're not lived really starting to think 574 00:29:35,500 --> 00:29:38,000 through feedback and how we get much better at candid feedback 575 00:29:38,000 --> 00:29:39,900 and calling out when they're not lived. 576 00:29:39,900 --> 00:29:44,000 And so I think that mission purpose and values, how you can 577 00:29:44,000 --> 00:29:47,800 scale the bleep, I hire amazing people and be able to attract 578 00:29:47,800 --> 00:29:50,600 people that really want that purpose, that genuine purpose. 579 00:29:50,600 --> 00:29:54,200 That's lived in the business, you called out just the hiring 580 00:29:54,200 --> 00:29:58,300 velocity that's going on. On 50 or so in the last month. 581 00:29:58,300 --> 00:30:01,000 That's insane to think that's happened. 582 00:30:01,100 --> 00:30:05,700 Remotely, and so coming out of covid, is there any advice that 583 00:30:05,700 --> 00:30:09,300 you have for other businesses that are hiring, you know, their 584 00:30:09,300 --> 00:30:12,000 systems and processes would have changed dramatically from the 585 00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:16,400 face-to-face nature to hiring a velocity under the pressure of 586 00:30:16,400 --> 00:30:20,500 having to do it remotely and also the policies around, you 587 00:30:20,500 --> 00:30:23,800 know what, this new age of work looks like now I've been really 588 00:30:23,800 --> 00:30:27,400 fortunate to have brought in an Chief people officer Kristin 589 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:30,300 Hunter and I think it's really important to look at, you know, 590 00:30:30,300 --> 00:30:33,300 who's in charge of that part of your business and make sure 591 00:30:33,300 --> 00:30:35,900 you've got an amazing person. You know, you may have just 592 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,700 focused in other areas of the business that drove growth or 593 00:30:38,700 --> 00:30:40,800 revenue or marketing, but, you know, every part of the 594 00:30:40,808 --> 00:30:42,500 business, you've got to have great talent. 595 00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:44,100 And then we, now, think about it. 596 00:30:44,100 --> 00:30:47,600 Also, as people operations, not just people and culture and you 597 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:49,600 think about scaling the operations, you know, in 598 00:30:49,600 --> 00:30:52,800 marketing or customer service, or, you know, credit, but people 599 00:30:52,800 --> 00:30:55,900 operations is where you have to think about, you know, Options 600 00:30:55,900 --> 00:30:57,700 as well. And so it's how you scale 601 00:30:57,700 --> 00:31:00,800 onboarding and it's how you scale time to competency. 602 00:31:01,000 --> 00:31:03,900 So how quickly can you actually get people, you know, ready and 603 00:31:03,900 --> 00:31:06,500 effective to be able to do their job because that enables you to 604 00:31:06,500 --> 00:31:09,500 be quicker to be able to support your customers and create 605 00:31:09,500 --> 00:31:11,900 revenues. So I think just a lot of the top 606 00:31:11,900 --> 00:31:14,000 of the funnel kind of metrics that you think about for 607 00:31:14,000 --> 00:31:17,300 customers, you've actually got to apply to your own people and 608 00:31:17,300 --> 00:31:20,100 really focus on those metrics and in the same way you would 609 00:31:20,100 --> 00:31:23,300 Revenue growth, that's a great call out and something very 610 00:31:23,300 --> 00:31:25,500 actionable for many of the founders. 611 00:31:25,700 --> 00:31:28,200 The listening. What about maintaining the 612 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,600 cultures that have developed much of which face-to-face all 613 00:31:32,600 --> 00:31:35,700 of a sudden? He finding that there's been a 614 00:31:35,700 --> 00:31:38,500 shift, considering the amount of people that are being on board 615 00:31:38,500 --> 00:31:41,500 remote, or is it been an effect on the organizational structure? 616 00:31:41,500 --> 00:31:45,100 And, and that has had a flow down, I'm curious because it is 617 00:31:45,100 --> 00:31:49,100 something that is real for every business and you're experiencing 618 00:31:49,100 --> 00:31:51,800 it at hyper growth and firsthand. 619 00:31:51,800 --> 00:31:53,400 So I'm sure you have some insights here. 620 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:56,000 Well, it's funny. It's all because I'm not the 621 00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:58,100 tech native. I'm the finance, the banker 622 00:31:58,100 --> 00:32:01,200 native. And so the preference from me, 623 00:32:01,200 --> 00:32:03,800 was always five days a week in the office and even after 624 00:32:03,800 --> 00:32:07,000 covid-19 0, I think I was doing, you know, four days in the 625 00:32:07,000 --> 00:32:10,100 office. So this time coming back, I'm 626 00:32:10,100 --> 00:32:11,800 one. No more than two days in the 627 00:32:11,808 --> 00:32:13,500 office. So, for me personally, like to 628 00:32:13,500 --> 00:32:17,300 huge mindset change from where, you know, where I've existed my 629 00:32:17,300 --> 00:32:21,400 whole life and I challenge my own views around our people 630 00:32:21,400 --> 00:32:23,300 being productive and home. You know, when we talk about 631 00:32:23,308 --> 00:32:26,000 let's return The office. I'd really challenge my own 632 00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:27,300 views around. What does that mean? 633 00:32:27,300 --> 00:32:30,200 Why do we need it? And when we do surveys and 61 634 00:32:30,200 --> 00:32:32,400 percent of our team say, they don't want to return to the 635 00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:35,700 office more than two days a week, you know, do you quickly 636 00:32:35,700 --> 00:32:37,700 jump to any conclusions or assumptions around? 637 00:32:37,700 --> 00:32:41,500 Why they've said that will challenge that and so I found it 638 00:32:41,500 --> 00:32:43,800 a really personally growth experience and really 639 00:32:43,800 --> 00:32:47,200 interesting because yeah productivity is high like our, 640 00:32:47,200 --> 00:32:49,600 you know, we're having record-breaking days yesterday 641 00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,300 was another record-breaking day and I think there were like 30 642 00:32:52,300 --> 00:32:55,300 people in the office and And so I think it's a really 643 00:32:55,300 --> 00:32:58,400 interesting time to be able to challenge every idea you've held 644 00:32:58,400 --> 00:33:00,000 around why you need to work in the office. 645 00:33:00,400 --> 00:33:03,400 And then you've got to look down also to the individual level and 646 00:33:03,400 --> 00:33:05,400 the team level. And normally you do it at a 647 00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,600 company whole level and you make a policy and that's what 648 00:33:07,600 --> 00:33:09,700 everyone lives with. But now you actually having to 649 00:33:09,700 --> 00:33:12,100 go through at A Team level and what works best for a team, 650 00:33:12,300 --> 00:33:14,800 which teams prefer to work remote, which teams actually 651 00:33:14,800 --> 00:33:18,500 really hunger and crave that interaction, because they're 652 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,100 more extroverts. And then also, you know, their 653 00:33:21,100 --> 00:33:23,800 individual circumstances for a team, they want to work for me. 654 00:33:24,000 --> 00:33:26,900 But the individual doesn't have that personal infrastructure at 655 00:33:26,900 --> 00:33:29,500 home to enable that. So it just adds a whole element 656 00:33:29,500 --> 00:33:33,000 of complexity there but I think that it's the future. 657 00:33:33,000 --> 00:33:36,800 It's what our people want and I think we have to move quicker to 658 00:33:36,800 --> 00:33:39,600 enable that for them. A great answer. 659 00:33:39,600 --> 00:33:45,300 Just switching tack momentarily to your Equity funding Journey. 660 00:33:45,500 --> 00:33:48,800 You've raised a lot of money now from some very high-profile 661 00:33:48,900 --> 00:33:53,700 investors, there must be this tension of wanting to grow. 662 00:33:53,900 --> 00:33:57,600 So fast and I'm sure you have that innate desire as well, but 663 00:33:57,600 --> 00:34:01,400 you are ultimately dealing in a Consumer Finance Company, 664 00:34:01,400 --> 00:34:04,900 amongst other things. And so this tension of scaling 665 00:34:04,900 --> 00:34:08,699 really quickly but also not breaking because to break 666 00:34:08,699 --> 00:34:13,300 creates a whole range of business risk that probably are 667 00:34:13,300 --> 00:34:16,300 recoverable. So curious how that tension 668 00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:19,199 plays out and how you think about it as the founder. 669 00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:23,199 For me, it's focus and you need people in the business that can 670 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:28,000 call you out on it because as you get bigger, the opportunity 671 00:34:28,000 --> 00:34:30,500 set of what you can do. Just grows and grows 672 00:34:30,500 --> 00:34:33,100 particularly when you have more capital and you just think what 673 00:34:33,100 --> 00:34:35,900 I could do that, I could buy that I could you know? 674 00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:39,699 And so it just gets bigger and the importance of focus gets 675 00:34:39,699 --> 00:34:42,900 more and more important because when you're smaller and you know 676 00:34:42,900 --> 00:34:45,500 you just laser focused on you know build the band PL business, 677 00:34:45,500 --> 00:34:48,600 the solar finance and that's all you've got to do and so it's 678 00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,300 really simple to be lazy. Because when you small but as 679 00:34:51,300 --> 00:34:54,600 you get bigger, I think that the focus is the biggest risk that 680 00:34:54,600 --> 00:34:58,900 you have to address and then being great at executing where 681 00:34:58,900 --> 00:35:00,800 you have a few different opportunities that you're facing 682 00:35:00,800 --> 00:35:02,400 and it's not their single opportunity. 683 00:35:02,600 --> 00:35:05,900 So I think it just comes down to great, people choosing some 684 00:35:05,900 --> 00:35:08,000 people as well, that have that experience that have been 685 00:35:08,000 --> 00:35:11,100 through that scale-up journey and really can help you identify 686 00:35:11,100 --> 00:35:14,100 those common mistakes that will happen because they've seen them 687 00:35:14,100 --> 00:35:16,600 happen and you don't just have to go through that slow 688 00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:19,100 agonizing process of learning it yourself. 689 00:35:19,100 --> 00:35:20,900 Yeah. Tickling a business like yours, 690 00:35:20,900 --> 00:35:23,100 you know, the mistakes. You don't want to have to learn 691 00:35:23,100 --> 00:35:26,000 yourself and a great call out to get the right people for the 692 00:35:26,000 --> 00:35:28,500 right stage of the journey. Some people are great startup 693 00:35:28,500 --> 00:35:32,400 people, some people really thrive in this scale up time 694 00:35:32,500 --> 00:35:35,100 Horizon and then of course they might not be the right people 695 00:35:35,100 --> 00:35:38,400 for you ultimately to be 100 billion dollar company, who 696 00:35:38,400 --> 00:35:40,600 knows. But there's no doubt in my mind 697 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:45,200 that the world needs more strong and empowered female Founders 698 00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,800 and leaders. What have been the biggest 699 00:35:47,800 --> 00:35:52,200 friction points for All female Founders to exist in Australia 700 00:35:52,200 --> 00:35:54,200 or the world. And what do you think will 701 00:35:54,200 --> 00:35:59,300 instigate change in this? Yeah, I think that paternity 702 00:35:59,300 --> 00:36:02,300 leave policy is a really, really big point. 703 00:36:02,300 --> 00:36:05,600 And so, I remember when I had kids, and I had a group of 704 00:36:05,600 --> 00:36:08,700 people girls actually, and we go walking at lunch in the botanic 705 00:36:08,700 --> 00:36:10,500 gardens. And, you know, we'd all had 706 00:36:10,500 --> 00:36:13,000 kids, and we were back three days a week and remember, just 707 00:36:13,000 --> 00:36:15,300 this conversation clearly and they all just went through. 708 00:36:15,300 --> 00:36:17,900 Well, you know, when I think about my cost of my nanny or my 709 00:36:17,900 --> 00:36:20,200 child care and this and there's that just doesn't it makes sense 710 00:36:20,200 --> 00:36:22,500 for me to be at work anymore. And and so my husband's going 711 00:36:22,500 --> 00:36:24,500 to, you know, my husband's going to work and I'm going to stay 712 00:36:24,500 --> 00:36:27,000 with the kids and I remember in that group, I was the only one 713 00:36:27,000 --> 00:36:29,200 who kept working, then it was because they had to make the 714 00:36:29,200 --> 00:36:31,400 choice. It was because only one person 715 00:36:31,400 --> 00:36:34,300 could get support with rental payments or you know the 716 00:36:34,300 --> 00:36:37,400 payments weren't flexible enough to be able to enable the female 717 00:36:37,400 --> 00:36:40,000 to be able to stay in the workplace and not feel stressed 718 00:36:40,000 --> 00:36:42,600 and that juggle. That's so real, couldn't be 719 00:36:42,600 --> 00:36:45,100 managed. And so I just think that when I 720 00:36:45,107 --> 00:36:48,100 look back at my amazing female friends, some of them aren't in 721 00:36:48,100 --> 00:36:50,100 the workforce so they're trying to get back in, but I had, you 722 00:36:50,100 --> 00:36:54,000 know, 10 years of a gap and it's hard for them to convince people 723 00:36:54,000 --> 00:36:57,400 that they have that skill. I think that's the biggest part 724 00:36:57,400 --> 00:37:00,000 of the funnel where you see females drop off females with 725 00:37:00,000 --> 00:37:03,500 amazing talent, you know, University degrees and 10 years 726 00:37:03,500 --> 00:37:07,800 of expertise and then they drop out for 10 years and so yeah, 727 00:37:07,800 --> 00:37:09,300 that's why I think it's harder to get female. 728 00:37:09,300 --> 00:37:12,500 Founders would be one reason and then I think the other reason is 729 00:37:12,500 --> 00:37:15,100 the capital that you need you have to be able to seed the 730 00:37:15,100 --> 00:37:18,000 business. It's really hard to go and get 731 00:37:18,000 --> 00:37:20,800 funding on just an ID and you've got to have had some traction, 732 00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,500 some product Market fit. And so if you're trying to get a 733 00:37:24,500 --> 00:37:27,700 female that has had some market experience and identified, a 734 00:37:27,707 --> 00:37:31,400 real problem that they may be trying to get a home, they may 735 00:37:31,400 --> 00:37:34,100 be juggling all these expenses or you know, juggling all these 736 00:37:34,100 --> 00:37:38,200 different pressures and I was really lucky that I could get a 737 00:37:38,207 --> 00:37:41,300 million dollars also home loan but my husband had a really seen 738 00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:42,900 your job. It will words, you know, I was 739 00:37:42,900 --> 00:37:46,400 on a fantastic package and we'd already accumulated a lot of 740 00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:50,200 savings through bonuses and this and that's a we had Money to be 741 00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,600 able to draw on and people don't have that usually. 742 00:37:53,900 --> 00:37:58,300 And so I think it's hard to get experienced female, Founders, 743 00:37:58,600 --> 00:38:01,400 because there are so many of these problems that I think have 744 00:38:01,400 --> 00:38:04,100 existed, but I think the world is changing and I think that's 745 00:38:04,100 --> 00:38:06,300 going to change the future fascinating inside. 746 00:38:06,300 --> 00:38:09,100 Is there a Best in Class? Parental leave policy that you 747 00:38:09,100 --> 00:38:12,900 wish was just perhaps government policy or something that you've 748 00:38:12,900 --> 00:38:15,100 seen. That is inspired how you've 749 00:38:15,100 --> 00:38:18,000 thought about maternity leave. So, we've just introduced a 750 00:38:18,000 --> 00:38:21,700 policy in the last Month, that's 20 weeks. 751 00:38:21,800 --> 00:38:25,000 Maternity leave for anyone who's been with us in past probation. 752 00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,000 So past six months, so that's 20 weeks of leave for either 753 00:38:29,000 --> 00:38:30,800 parent. So if you work for us and you 754 00:38:30,800 --> 00:38:33,100 know, your partner had the baby, you can still take that leave. 755 00:38:33,300 --> 00:38:35,500 We give four weeks additional for the birthing parent. 756 00:38:35,500 --> 00:38:38,100 So if you had the baby, you can take the 24 weeks off. 757 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:41,100 And so I think my husband was at bright, you know, he would have 758 00:38:41,100 --> 00:38:43,300 been able to have taken five months off. 759 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,700 And then he would have had flexibility over two years as to 760 00:38:46,700 --> 00:38:50,900 how he took that leave as well. And I think, That he then could 761 00:38:50,900 --> 00:38:55,000 have supported you know, he's me and you know, given me a lot of 762 00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:58,200 flexibility and that could have kept me in the workforce and so 763 00:38:58,400 --> 00:39:02,000 I just think those paternity leave policies a huge and we 764 00:39:02,000 --> 00:39:04,300 actually backdated that when we introduced it. 765 00:39:04,300 --> 00:39:07,200 So we had quite a few dads whose Partners have had a baby in the 766 00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:10,100 last year and so we went to them with this amazing. 767 00:39:10,200 --> 00:39:13,600 Listen, you've got some leave, you can take and the most 768 00:39:13,600 --> 00:39:16,900 amazing messages on slack, we're getting and with the photos. 769 00:39:16,900 --> 00:39:19,500 And I've even seen one of the dads changes email signature 770 00:39:19,700 --> 00:39:23,500 Sure to, you know, Dad and they just feel it's amazing. 771 00:39:23,700 --> 00:39:26,000 And that's one thing I'm really proud of actually. 772 00:39:26,100 --> 00:39:29,500 So you should be you're breaking the cycle for so many and it 773 00:39:29,500 --> 00:39:33,000 plays into my last question. That is around work-life 774 00:39:33,000 --> 00:39:35,500 balance. You have two kids, you're the 775 00:39:35,500 --> 00:39:38,100 CEO and founder of a hyper growing business. 776 00:39:38,800 --> 00:39:42,100 What advice do you have of finding that balance? 777 00:39:42,100 --> 00:39:45,100 That is so required to be in for the marathon. 778 00:39:45,100 --> 00:39:48,300 That is scaling a business? Yeah, I think it's best. 779 00:39:48,300 --> 00:39:51,400 We just acknowledging that. That Juggle he's real and so 780 00:39:51,400 --> 00:39:54,400 when you're in the middle of it all like you've got a pause for 781 00:39:54,400 --> 00:39:57,300 a bit and say like just your juggling all these different 782 00:39:57,300 --> 00:39:59,400 things just have a think about what you're juggling. 783 00:39:59,400 --> 00:40:01,800 And then just have a think about that impact on you, the impact 784 00:40:01,800 --> 00:40:04,800 on your family. Someone is taking the Short 785 00:40:04,800 --> 00:40:07,200 Straw out of all of this. And just make sure you're happy 786 00:40:07,200 --> 00:40:10,100 with who's taking the Short Straw, I think that's the thing 787 00:40:10,100 --> 00:40:12,100 you've got to think through because the momentum can really 788 00:40:12,100 --> 00:40:14,300 take pace. And, you know, for me, it's 789 00:40:14,300 --> 00:40:17,100 absolutely bright that I prioritized to the detriment of 790 00:40:17,100 --> 00:40:19,400 other people who are really important in my life and I 791 00:40:19,408 --> 00:40:21,900 think, When you reflect on that, it creates guilt, you know, and 792 00:40:21,900 --> 00:40:24,800 I just think if you want this to be a marathon, not a Sprint, I 793 00:40:24,800 --> 00:40:27,400 think you have to be really mindful of who those important 794 00:40:27,400 --> 00:40:29,900 relationships are in your life. What you need to do to 795 00:40:29,900 --> 00:40:32,900 prioritize them. And what the impact of your 796 00:40:32,900 --> 00:40:36,100 journey is on them and to really think through that and, you 797 00:40:36,100 --> 00:40:38,500 know, reflect on what you have to do to be able to support 798 00:40:38,500 --> 00:40:41,100 them. And so yeah, that's that advice, 799 00:40:41,100 --> 00:40:45,000 I'd give to be really mindful of that and to just know that it's 800 00:40:45,000 --> 00:40:47,500 real and know that it's going to be there for a long time and put 801 00:40:47,500 --> 00:40:49,500 in structures and things in place. 802 00:40:49,800 --> 00:40:52,400 To make it work. Awesome, Catherine. 803 00:40:52,500 --> 00:40:56,000 It's been an absolute pleasure to have you on the podcast. 804 00:40:56,200 --> 00:41:00,500 Thank you so much for your time. I feel as though I learn a hell 805 00:41:00,500 --> 00:41:02,800 of a lot about you and the business. 806 00:41:03,100 --> 00:41:05,200 And once again, thank you so much. 807 00:41:05,400 --> 00:41:07,600 Thank you, thanks so much. It was fantastic.