1 00:00:00,440 --> 00:00:02,080 Everybody, it's just me. Quick message. 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,840 To you before you get stuck in, this is just the first 30 3 00:00:04,840 --> 00:00:08,000 minutes of this episode. If you'd like access to the full 4 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:12,240 episode ad free without interruption, go to 10% true.com 5 00:00:12,320 --> 00:00:15,080 and take out a subscription. Thanks for your support. 6 00:00:15,840 --> 00:00:21,080 Year before I got there, they had a situation to occur where 7 00:00:23,440 --> 00:00:27,680 they had it and the other thing was out over the Yellow Sea, the 8 00:00:27,680 --> 00:00:30,800 line came across straight. Well, there was 8 air training, 9 00:00:30,800 --> 00:00:34,000 North Korean air, air training areas north of the line. 10 00:00:34,320 --> 00:00:36,440 And we had training areas just South of the line. 11 00:00:37,080 --> 00:00:39,960 And I'm talking like there were this line, we're within 5 miles 12 00:00:39,960 --> 00:00:44,520 of the line on either side. So the year before I got there, 13 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:50,120 they had incidents where a guy, North Korean and his BIG212 14 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,920 seat, Big 21 was out doing advanced handling or initial 15 00:00:55,120 --> 00:00:57,760 stuff that they do for their pilots when they go out there. 16 00:00:58,360 --> 00:01:02,600 And this guy spilled out of the airspace and spilled into our 17 00:01:02,600 --> 00:01:06,080 train airspace. S OK. 18 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:10,760 So they're looking at it, you know, of course on the board and 19 00:01:10,760 --> 00:01:14,120 they see this and they're going well, you know, in the in the H 20 00:01:14,120 --> 00:01:16,960 TAC where the combined forces are, all they're looking at is a 21 00:01:16,960 --> 00:01:18,760 radar track. You know, they got a radar 22 00:01:18,760 --> 00:01:20,840 track. We don't know what the guy's 23 00:01:20,840 --> 00:01:22,200 doing. Yeah, he's in the training area, 24 00:01:22,200 --> 00:01:23,560 maybe doing something or whatever. 25 00:01:23,560 --> 00:01:26,680 We don't know what's going on. OK, so they got this track. 26 00:01:26,680 --> 00:01:29,480 He's still South and he's S for a while. 27 00:01:30,560 --> 00:01:34,720 And the story was that it was a mission. 28 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,320 Like I said, the South Koreans were responsible for air 29 00:01:38,320 --> 00:01:41,880 defence. The American two star who was 30 00:01:41,880 --> 00:01:46,480 the lead two star for Air Force guy in Korea and ahead of this 31 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:50,640 combined force thing says change things now we'll let the 36 32 00:01:50,640 --> 00:01:53,400 handle it. So they scrambled, they 33 00:01:53,400 --> 00:01:57,920 scrambled the guys out of the 36 to head to the head to the West, 34 00:01:58,240 --> 00:02:03,520 to the centre step, you know, and this whole thing was like a 35 00:02:03,520 --> 00:02:06,680 chess match. But it also had to do like off 36 00:02:06,680 --> 00:02:08,680 of indications and signals and stuff. 37 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:12,320 Like, you know, they would do something and then we would do 38 00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:14,880 something and they would see that we did this. 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:17,160 And so they would make an another move. 40 00:02:17,160 --> 00:02:19,400 It was like a big, you know, move in the chess board. 41 00:02:19,520 --> 00:02:23,200 OK. So they saw the aeroplanes, They 42 00:02:23,200 --> 00:02:25,560 saw the aeroplanes scrambled. So we're scrambled. 43 00:02:25,560 --> 00:02:28,720 We're going out there. These guys are still monkeying 44 00:02:28,720 --> 00:02:36,000 around in our training airspace. And so for whatever reason, we 45 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,160 were supposed to go through a procedure where we had to be 46 00:02:39,160 --> 00:02:46,000 cleared to intercept, cleared to arm, clear to yeah, clear to 47 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:48,240 engage. They were all, and I may be 48 00:02:48,240 --> 00:02:51,400 missing a couple extra steps, but they're all separate steps 49 00:02:51,400 --> 00:02:55,800 that you you had to get clearance to do, you know, And 50 00:02:55,800 --> 00:02:58,200 then of course, the last one was, you know, clear the fire. 51 00:02:58,200 --> 00:03:02,040 OK, Supposedly the story was they're they're out there and 52 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:06,480 they're getting inside of 15 miles on this on this Mig and 53 00:03:08,360 --> 00:03:11,080 they request to think clearance to arm or something like that. 54 00:03:11,480 --> 00:03:14,040 And the two stars said that just give him clearance to fire. 55 00:03:16,800 --> 00:03:19,880 OK, so he gave him clearance to fire, which meant that they're 56 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,640 going to take they're going to take a they're going to look to 57 00:03:22,640 --> 00:03:27,280 take a face aim seven shot. OK, to the flight lead. 58 00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,920 In addition to that, what that meant was, Hey, I'm getting rid 59 00:03:30,920 --> 00:03:35,360 of my wing tanks. So he jettisons his wing tanks 60 00:03:35,480 --> 00:03:39,200 at that point in time. And supposedly the story was, 61 00:03:39,400 --> 00:03:45,760 was they they got to within prime Aim 7 conditions, what you 62 00:03:45,760 --> 00:03:49,720 could see at the time, which was Max circle expansion on the 63 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:53,560 radar scope and the circle's just about ready to contract, 64 00:03:53,720 --> 00:03:56,240 which meant that you're right in the heart of the envelope. 65 00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:10,540 Pin Bag, welcome back to 10th century. 66 00:04:10,540 --> 00:04:12,980 Good to see you again. Good to see you too, Steve. 67 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:16,320 Payback, you treated us last time around to a very 68 00:04:16,320 --> 00:04:19,279 interesting discussion around your time going through 69 00:04:19,800 --> 00:04:22,920 navigator training in the Air Force in the late 1970s, getting 70 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:26,680 to the FTU or the RTU for the F4 E at Macdill. 71 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:29,680 And you talked us through some of the structural changes or the 72 00:04:29,680 --> 00:04:32,720 organisational changes that were happening across PAC F and USAFE 73 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:36,280 E and Alaska Command with regards to introducing the F4E 74 00:04:36,280 --> 00:04:38,800 and replacing I guess some of the F4D units. 75 00:04:38,800 --> 00:04:43,000 And at that point, I think maybe this is where you want to pick 76 00:04:43,000 --> 00:04:44,680 up. You were getting ready to go to 77 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:47,000 your first assignment at Osan in Korea. 78 00:04:47,680 --> 00:04:50,600 Right. One thing I want to add on to 79 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:53,320 what I was talking about at the end yesterday where we talked 80 00:04:53,320 --> 00:04:58,880 about where the tactical air forces of Taf were in the seven 81 00:04:58,880 --> 00:05:02,960 in 76. I neglected to mention that 82 00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:07,640 Nellis both in the Tac Fighter Weapons Centre and in the 83 00:05:07,640 --> 00:05:12,080 Fighter F4 Fighter Weapons School there were given the lead 84 00:05:12,080 --> 00:05:14,600 as far as setting a lot of these things up. 85 00:05:15,200 --> 00:05:22,680 And in in 1976 when they published the Fighter weapons 86 00:05:22,680 --> 00:05:28,800 review for beginning in 1977, they came out with two volumes 87 00:05:28,800 --> 00:05:36,040 that are basically the Bible that all the units regardless of 88 00:05:36,040 --> 00:05:41,320 NDS, you know, we're using as far as setting up MQ training 89 00:05:41,320 --> 00:05:44,080 programmes. So I just wanted to show you a 90 00:05:44,080 --> 00:05:48,120 copy. This was the first one here and 91 00:05:48,400 --> 00:05:53,200 it's winter 76 and it was called the Training toward combat 92 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,040 capability. This was volume one. 93 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:03,920 This dealt with air to air items and it basically told you how 94 00:06:04,360 --> 00:06:07,600 told a person or a squadron how to set up their training 95 00:06:07,600 --> 00:06:14,160 programme and techniques and how to brief missions and stuff. 96 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:18,880 That was followed four months later by volume 2 with the brown 97 00:06:18,880 --> 00:06:20,960 cover. And the brown cover is because 98 00:06:21,160 --> 00:06:25,880 it was air to ground. And this dealt with how to deal 99 00:06:25,880 --> 00:06:29,400 with air to ground missions and how to deal with flying low 100 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:35,600 levels. And it also introduced this 101 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:41,880 little bugaboo pave spike to the Taff and how to set up your your 102 00:06:41,880 --> 00:06:45,680 initial qualification rides and pave spike. 103 00:06:46,640 --> 00:06:50,560 And of course, the guy that authored most of these was a guy 104 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,640 by the name of John Jumper. He was a Clapton at the time, 105 00:06:55,640 --> 00:06:59,440 the guy who was involved with a lot of this, a lot of this was 106 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:06,040 Ron Keyes, who also went on. And you also had some other 107 00:07:06,040 --> 00:07:10,080 noteworthy names like Joe Bob Phillips in there and stuff. 108 00:07:10,080 --> 00:07:16,520 So that's where the issue of where the Taft was going. 109 00:07:17,440 --> 00:07:21,880 And when I look back, you know, as far as fighter squadrons back 110 00:07:21,880 --> 00:07:26,120 then from my position now where I'm retired or actually, you 111 00:07:26,120 --> 00:07:31,800 know, when even when I was in the my last years in the, you 112 00:07:31,800 --> 00:07:37,680 know, before I retired from the Air Force, was that basically a 113 00:07:37,680 --> 00:07:39,920 fighter squadron? The success of a fighter 114 00:07:39,920 --> 00:07:45,200 squadron was like a three legged stool and you know with the 115 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:50,120 stool you wanna have all the legs equal to make it so that 116 00:07:50,120 --> 00:07:54,120 you can sit on it 'cause if one leg is shorter you're gonna be 117 00:07:54,120 --> 00:07:58,680 sliding stuff. Well, the three legs I construe 118 00:07:58,680 --> 00:08:02,400 to be technology and the technology is both of the 119 00:08:02,440 --> 00:08:06,200 aircraft and the weapon systems and the weapons that you're 120 00:08:06,200 --> 00:08:08,800 using on the particular aircraft. 121 00:08:09,400 --> 00:08:13,160 So that would drive most of the other legs. 122 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:19,160 The second leg is training and guidance and that's how well the 123 00:08:19,600 --> 00:08:22,160 the training material is, how well you train people. 124 00:08:22,360 --> 00:08:24,640 And then also what type of guidance do you give out in 125 00:08:24,640 --> 00:08:27,760 terms of now we call it, you know, three, we used to call it 126 00:08:27,760 --> 00:08:33,520 3-1 and 3-3, but now they're called the techniques and 127 00:08:33,520 --> 00:08:37,360 procedures I think it is. And then the third leg is 128 00:08:37,360 --> 00:08:40,000 basically leadership and experience. 129 00:08:40,919 --> 00:08:46,520 Now if one leg is lagging, then another leg can make up for it 130 00:08:46,600 --> 00:08:51,280 to sort of equalise stuff. But that, as I look back, 131 00:08:51,280 --> 00:08:55,000 became, hey, this is how this whole thing is supposed to work 132 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:57,880 and to have a successful fighter squad. 133 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:05,400 So with that, I graduated RTU. Back in those days, McDonnell 134 00:09:05,400 --> 00:09:08,600 Douglas was still able to give us our graduation model. 135 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:13,680 Now they, they, they ceased that in the 80s because it was 136 00:09:13,680 --> 00:09:18,160 considered to be something that you had to claim as far as money 137 00:09:18,160 --> 00:09:21,280 goes for the Air Force. So the Air Force told McDonald 138 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,280 Lucas, you can't give them their $10 models anymore. 139 00:09:24,760 --> 00:09:29,560 So I was one of the last classes, I guess that to get, 140 00:09:29,840 --> 00:09:31,920 you know, our free McDonnell Douglas model. 141 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:34,840 And of course, you know, we had a whole bunch of other McDonnell 142 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:40,080 Douglas items that we that we had back in those days too, like 143 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:45,800 patches and stuff like that. So I left Macdill, finished up 144 00:09:45,800 --> 00:09:48,960 the course the first week of December of 76. 145 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:53,720 I was basically off for a month for Christmas. 146 00:09:53,920 --> 00:09:58,120 And if you remember from the last time I hadn't done basic 147 00:09:58,120 --> 00:10:02,360 survival training, So basic survival training didn't start 148 00:10:02,360 --> 00:10:06,320 again until the 1st week of January 77. 149 00:10:07,640 --> 00:10:15,800 So January 77, I have to, I finish up doing SERE training, 150 00:10:16,200 --> 00:10:19,200 going through prison camp and, and all that. 151 00:10:19,640 --> 00:10:22,840 And that was an interesting experience going through the 152 00:10:23,880 --> 00:10:27,040 through the SERE because as I thought when we talked about, I 153 00:10:27,040 --> 00:10:30,600 had that delay going to navigator training by going to 154 00:10:30,600 --> 00:10:35,160 pre nap training, that set me six months ahead as far as my 155 00:10:35,160 --> 00:10:38,640 time in the Air Force. So the day I graduated RTU 156 00:10:38,640 --> 00:10:41,200 training, I pinned on 1st Lieutenant. 157 00:10:41,760 --> 00:10:46,880 So when I showed up at survival training, I was a first 158 00:10:46,880 --> 00:10:50,480 Lieutenant and going in route and stuff. 159 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:54,000 Well, that earmarked me out of the crowd of what was going 160 00:10:54,000 --> 00:10:57,840 through survival training. Survival training at the time 161 00:10:57,840 --> 00:11:03,320 when I was up there at Fairchild, we had mostly a lot 162 00:11:03,320 --> 00:11:08,040 of it enlisted because AWACS was being developed at the same 163 00:11:08,040 --> 00:11:12,120 time. So our ranking officer for the 164 00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:16,600 class going through survival training was what they now call 165 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,840 an air battle manager. Back then we just used to call 166 00:11:19,840 --> 00:11:24,160 the scope dope was the GCI controller that was a major and 167 00:11:24,160 --> 00:11:27,640 he was going to be getting a set of wings to go fly on an AWACS. 168 00:11:28,360 --> 00:11:32,160 And so he's looking out over for everybody, not only the 169 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:35,520 officers, but there are a lot of enlisted because there are a lot 170 00:11:35,520 --> 00:11:37,880 of enlisted that are going to fly on the AWACS. 171 00:11:39,480 --> 00:11:43,400 And so the first thing they did was they segregate the 172 00:11:43,400 --> 00:11:47,720 leadership from the masses. And the way they did it for us 173 00:11:48,600 --> 00:11:52,840 was they know who, when you arrive there, they have a 174 00:11:52,840 --> 00:11:55,880 background on you. So like, they knew my case. 175 00:11:56,440 --> 00:12:00,120 Yeah, he's a first Lieutenant, but he's also a fighter guy, 176 00:12:00,640 --> 00:12:03,200 graduated from fighter, from fighter training. 177 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:08,480 He's and he's going overseas. So the first phase of training 178 00:12:08,480 --> 00:12:12,200 they show you is the immediate capture, which is geared toward 179 00:12:12,440 --> 00:12:16,720 a guy flying fighters, where you bail out of your aeroplane, you 180 00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:20,400 land on the ground and you're immediately captured by enemy 181 00:12:20,400 --> 00:12:21,880 forces. And what they're trying to 182 00:12:21,880 --> 00:12:27,360 simulate is your immediate interrogation. 183 00:12:28,280 --> 00:12:31,680 So this would be like your militia or whatever trying to 184 00:12:31,680 --> 00:12:34,760 ask you what were you doing? What was your mission and all 185 00:12:34,760 --> 00:12:36,720 this. And of course they teach you all 186 00:12:36,720 --> 00:12:39,560 the techniques and stuff and which is basically like, I ain't 187 00:12:39,560 --> 00:12:45,400 telling you shit and stuff. So Fairchild was a was a large 188 00:12:45,400 --> 00:12:50,040 base where they where they ran the camp was down where, where 189 00:12:50,040 --> 00:12:51,680 they had some empty ammo bunkers. 190 00:12:53,040 --> 00:12:58,440 And so they captured me. And of course, all the guys that 191 00:12:58,440 --> 00:13:01,840 are running this camp, with the exception of a few officers, are 192 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:06,760 all enlisted guys. But they're not wearing American 193 00:13:06,760 --> 00:13:09,320 military uniforms. They're wearing stuff that sort 194 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:13,560 of looks Chai, calm, sort of looks sort of looks Soviet sort 195 00:13:13,560 --> 00:13:17,040 of looks like this or that, you know, for various adversaries. 196 00:13:18,200 --> 00:13:21,320 So they captured me and of course, it's me. 197 00:13:21,400 --> 00:13:27,520 And it's about 13 enlisted guys. So we go into this ammo bunker 198 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:30,640 and the guy starts to interrogate at me and he says, 199 00:13:30,640 --> 00:13:33,400 you better tell me what I want to know or I'm going to shoot 200 00:13:33,400 --> 00:13:38,520 you. And he pulls out a 45, OK, that 201 00:13:38,520 --> 00:13:40,760 he had on him. And I go, I ain't telling you 202 00:13:40,760 --> 00:13:42,360 anything. He says, OK, will you come with 203 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:44,920 me? He takes me outside of the ammo 204 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,560 bunker, takes the 45 and shoots around. 205 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,360 And then he says, now you go over here. 206 00:13:51,640 --> 00:13:53,960 So now I'm going over to another ammo bunker. 207 00:13:54,280 --> 00:13:57,680 And the whole reason why they did that was they wanted to 208 00:13:58,080 --> 00:14:02,160 instil in the rest of the guys that were in the ammo bunker was 209 00:14:02,320 --> 00:14:05,440 holy shit, they shot that guy 'cause he ain't coming back. 210 00:14:05,440 --> 00:14:07,800 And they throw another guy in so they'd sit. 211 00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:09,720 So they'd separate the leadership. 212 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:14,840 So anyhow, we ended up basically it was the senior captain who's 213 00:14:14,840 --> 00:14:21,760 gonna be an air battle manager. We had a a a senior, we had a 214 00:14:22,040 --> 00:14:26,640 middle grade captain who was going to fly. 215 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,520 I forget what the aeroplane was, but it wasn't a tactical 216 00:14:29,520 --> 00:14:34,080 fighter, but he come out of being a Titan missile crewman, 217 00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:37,680 crew lead back when we had Titan missiles in sack. 218 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:40,760 And then it was about, and the rest of us were all first 219 00:14:40,760 --> 00:14:44,400 lieutenants and we were all F4 guys and we're all going to 220 00:14:44,400 --> 00:14:48,360 various bases and stuff. And then the rest there was 221 00:14:48,360 --> 00:14:51,400 second lieutenants wandering around trying to figure out what 222 00:14:51,400 --> 00:14:55,960 to do with the enlisted guys. And so they kept us separating 223 00:14:56,280 --> 00:14:59,200 to see if they would establish a chain of command as to what's 224 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:03,360 going on. The other person that we had 225 00:15:03,360 --> 00:15:08,200 with us let me go back as we had a female staff Sergeant. 226 00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,160 And you probably wondered why was she there? 227 00:15:11,160 --> 00:15:15,440 Well, she was basically what was described as being like a 228 00:15:15,440 --> 00:15:18,920 stewardess for Mac and she had to go to this course. 229 00:15:19,520 --> 00:15:23,560 So of course they, they picked that on her for a lot of, for a 230 00:15:23,560 --> 00:15:27,520 lot of issues and stuff and basically a raster and stuff. 231 00:15:28,640 --> 00:15:35,240 And so we went through that and the one thing that you want to 232 00:15:35,240 --> 00:15:39,800 try to do is you want to try to escape from the camp, OK, But if 233 00:15:39,800 --> 00:15:42,680 you escape from the camp, it really doesn't matter because 234 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,560 you're going to they you go, OK, I made out of the camp and they 235 00:15:46,560 --> 00:15:48,040 go, OK, fine. Then they take you and they 236 00:15:48,040 --> 00:15:51,120 bring you back in the camp. But what they wanted to see you 237 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:54,040 do was what sort of ingenuity you could have. 238 00:15:54,040 --> 00:15:55,880 What could you bring out that'd be of value? 239 00:15:56,600 --> 00:16:01,840 So the one thing that we had was we had a copy of the class 240 00:16:01,840 --> 00:16:05,040 roster of everybody's name that was on the roster. 241 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:11,960 And we had the person that escaped was able to escape have 242 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,200 the roster. So that was a a thumbs up as far 243 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:18,400 as that for our class that we got the names out of who's in 244 00:16:18,400 --> 00:16:21,920 the prison camp. The other thing that we were 245 00:16:21,920 --> 00:16:28,080 able to bring into the camp was we were able to smuggle a watch 246 00:16:28,080 --> 00:16:30,680 it. And you may wonder what's what's 247 00:16:30,680 --> 00:16:34,280 the purpose of the watch? Well, you get your syllabus 248 00:16:34,280 --> 00:16:37,160 information and stuff and we knew that hey, the course is 249 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:43,160 supposed to last three days and the first, the whole first 250 00:16:43,160 --> 00:16:46,080 portion of it is to sensually deprive you of what you're 251 00:16:46,080 --> 00:16:48,440 doing. They blindfold you, they stick 252 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,360 in places where you lose sense of time. 253 00:16:50,840 --> 00:16:53,120 Well, one guy had a car, had to watch. 254 00:16:53,120 --> 00:16:55,880 And so we're able to keep eye of what's going on. 255 00:16:56,040 --> 00:16:58,240 We're able to keep track of what day it is. 256 00:16:58,880 --> 00:17:04,760 And so our, the exercise is supposed to end on Thursday so 257 00:17:04,760 --> 00:17:09,280 that we could depart on Friday for wherever we were going to 258 00:17:09,280 --> 00:17:13,880 our next assignment. So like I said, they kept all us 259 00:17:13,920 --> 00:17:17,200 seeing you guys segregated. The guy pulls out the watch and 260 00:17:17,200 --> 00:17:18,960 he goes, you know, hey, it's getting pretty late. 261 00:17:19,319 --> 00:17:23,760 It's like 7:00 in the evening. OK, Now where the camp is from 262 00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,319 the main base of Fairchild is you can look right across and 263 00:17:27,319 --> 00:17:31,200 see where the BOQ is, where your, where your room is, where 264 00:17:31,200 --> 00:17:36,800 you're staying. OK, the, but what was in between 265 00:17:36,800 --> 00:17:41,440 US and the BOQ was the sack alert facility. 266 00:17:42,000 --> 00:17:46,440 And so we've been briefed on when you escape, don't head off 267 00:17:46,440 --> 00:17:49,760 in this direction because what you'll do is you'll hit the sack 268 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:52,680 alert facility and the next thing, if you're lucky, you 269 00:17:52,680 --> 00:17:56,280 should be faced down in the concrete by some security force 270 00:17:56,280 --> 00:17:59,680 personnel. So we're looking at the watch 271 00:17:59,680 --> 00:18:01,680 and we're going, you know, hey, this is getting to be a bunch of 272 00:18:01,680 --> 00:18:06,320 BS and stuff. And so we just decide and we go 273 00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,360 out and we look and see what the enlisted guys have been doing 274 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,760 and they're digging a, they were building a big hole and we're 275 00:18:13,760 --> 00:18:16,840 going, what are you guys bigging a big hole for to say? 276 00:18:16,840 --> 00:18:19,240 Well, they told us they want us to make a swimming pool and 277 00:18:19,240 --> 00:18:22,720 we're going, no, what you're building is a AAA placement. 278 00:18:23,040 --> 00:18:26,040 And so we got them all out of that. 279 00:18:26,680 --> 00:18:33,520 And you know, another portion they had was to further try to 280 00:18:33,520 --> 00:18:38,400 disrupt the chain of command. They had a mock camp election. 281 00:18:38,400 --> 00:18:42,120 So when you did the camp election, of course, you put the 282 00:18:42,400 --> 00:18:46,440 senior ranking officer up while the camp commandant decided, no, 283 00:18:46,440 --> 00:18:48,960 he's not good enough, we're going to have an election. 284 00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,440 And I want to know what the qualifications were. 285 00:18:51,800 --> 00:18:54,840 Well, among the maintenance guys, we had a tech Sergeant who 286 00:18:54,960 --> 00:18:57,640 had a good background in maintenance and he had 287 00:18:57,640 --> 00:19:00,640 supervised like upwards of 150 people. 288 00:19:00,920 --> 00:19:04,520 And he was the commandant nominee for it. 289 00:19:04,720 --> 00:19:08,600 So we couldn't nominate the senior ranking officer. 290 00:19:08,800 --> 00:19:13,000 So it defaulted then to the next ranking officer to the the other 291 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:17,080 captain. And so we said now the captain 292 00:19:17,080 --> 00:19:21,560 is the next guy to be the senior ranking senior ranking guy. 293 00:19:22,440 --> 00:19:25,600 And the commandant goes, well, what are your qualifications? 294 00:19:26,280 --> 00:19:28,920 And this guy starts talking. He says, well, he says I'm going 295 00:19:28,920 --> 00:19:30,200 to be off. He goes, well, that's stuff. 296 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:33,120 And you're just an air crew. He goes, no, But before that I 297 00:19:33,120 --> 00:19:36,440 was the commander of a Titan missile crew, four man team, 298 00:19:36,440 --> 00:19:39,160 majority. And commandant goes, oh, tell me 299 00:19:39,160 --> 00:19:41,720 more So. And the rest of us go, hey, shut 300 00:19:41,720 --> 00:19:45,880 up, shut up. OK, so we get back. 301 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,320 So we're looking around. This is like the first time in 302 00:19:48,320 --> 00:19:52,760 two in a day and a half we see outside of what's going on and 303 00:19:52,760 --> 00:19:56,080 we're going, hey, knock that, knock that crap off. 304 00:19:56,200 --> 00:19:59,000 We're leaving. And they go, what do you mean 305 00:19:59,000 --> 00:20:02,680 we're leaving? We're going, hey, it's Thursday. 306 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:05,480 It's going on at 8:00. This thing was supposed to have 307 00:20:05,480 --> 00:20:08,320 ended about 1/2 an hour ago based on the syllabus. 308 00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,880 So we start going to the main gate. 309 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:14,880 And of course, one of the guards is there with his rifle and he 310 00:20:14,880 --> 00:20:17,360 goes, stop or, you know, or I'll fire on you. 311 00:20:17,680 --> 00:20:21,040 And we told him, we said, you go ahead and you can shoot one of 312 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,360 us, but the rest of us are going to shove that rifle up your ass. 313 00:20:26,080 --> 00:20:28,840 And so with that, it ended. They raised up the American 314 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:30,520 flag. And I go, OK, you guys all 315 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:32,560 graduate and stuff. So off we go. 316 00:20:33,800 --> 00:20:42,040 So this is now 1977 and the way we travel to Korea is by air 317 00:20:42,200 --> 00:20:45,440 contract there. So I go down to Travis Air Force 318 00:20:45,440 --> 00:20:48,480 Base and I get on a contract there. 319 00:20:48,480 --> 00:20:52,600 Stretch 8, the stretch 8, DC 8 stretch. 320 00:20:52,600 --> 00:20:56,280 So it holds about oh excess of 100 people. 321 00:20:56,560 --> 00:21:02,520 Now there's only about 20 guys on that plane that are Air Force 322 00:21:03,320 --> 00:21:06,120 and I'm the ranking Air Force guy being a first Lieutenant. 323 00:21:06,280 --> 00:21:09,280 OK. So the rest of the plane is 324 00:21:09,280 --> 00:21:14,320 filled up with Army guys going up to replace guys in the in the 325 00:21:14,320 --> 00:21:16,920 second Infantry division up on the DMZ. 326 00:21:18,160 --> 00:21:20,800 Takes us about 20 hours to get to Osan. 327 00:21:21,280 --> 00:21:24,880 We take off out of Travis. We have to fly up to Elmendorf 328 00:21:25,080 --> 00:21:29,000 or Anchorage to refuel. And then from Anchorage I think 329 00:21:29,000 --> 00:21:34,360 we flew direct to Osan, although we may have stopped at Yokota 330 00:21:34,360 --> 00:21:36,320 someplace like that to get more gas. 331 00:21:36,320 --> 00:21:41,960 But anyhow, we arrive at I, we landed Osan on a Saturday 332 00:21:41,960 --> 00:21:48,680 morning, 7:30 OK, so we're coming into Korea and it's my 333 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:52,880 first time looking into Korea. And the first thing that I 334 00:21:52,880 --> 00:21:56,440 noticed back then was, hey, we're flying over a country. 335 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,280 Yeah, there's some rice patties, but there's no trees. 336 00:21:59,400 --> 00:22:02,240 There's no trees on the hill or anything like that. 337 00:22:03,000 --> 00:22:08,400 And I found later on, talking to the local Koreans, that that was 338 00:22:08,600 --> 00:22:12,040 all leftover from when the Japanese occupied an annex 339 00:22:12,040 --> 00:22:13,600 Korea. They took all that. 340 00:22:13,600 --> 00:22:15,800 They deforested the entire peninsula. 341 00:22:17,360 --> 00:22:20,560 Yeah. Now, South Korea at that time 342 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:25,560 was mostly agrarian, so we were flying over rice paddies. 343 00:22:25,840 --> 00:22:29,360 Yeah, they had their big cities and stuff, but even Seoul was 344 00:22:29,360 --> 00:22:32,080 still rebuilding from the Korean War and stuff. 345 00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,040 So it wasn't anything like it is today. 346 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:39,720 They didn't have any industry. Most of the stuff that came over 347 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:46,480 came over from Japan. And part of, and when I talk 348 00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:49,360 about the history of the squad and I'll talk about how we get 349 00:22:49,360 --> 00:22:53,600 how some stuff got into Korea because it was courtesy of the 350 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:57,160 US Air Force and the, and the fighter squad is being 351 00:22:57,160 --> 00:23:02,600 relocated. So after the Korean War, we 352 00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,720 basically didn't have what you would call standard bases. 353 00:23:06,720 --> 00:23:11,680 We had bases there, but they were bases that we just pulled a 354 00:23:12,160 --> 00:23:15,240 alert on. And the type of alert was the 355 00:23:15,240 --> 00:23:18,800 same type of alert that was being pulled in Germany and 356 00:23:18,800 --> 00:23:22,040 France, which was was a Victor alert. 357 00:23:22,920 --> 00:23:26,880 So they're flying and we're flying on assets and stuff. 358 00:23:27,200 --> 00:23:30,920 So that's nuclear strike. Nuclear strike, OK, It's 359 00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:36,000 basically what's there. OK, That changed in 1968. 360 00:23:36,960 --> 00:23:42,040 What happened in 1968 was the North Korean Navy increased the 361 00:23:42,040 --> 00:23:46,360 size of their fleet by having a old cargo vessel that was now an 362 00:23:46,360 --> 00:23:50,120 intelligence ship called the Pueblo added to their inventory. 363 00:23:50,840 --> 00:23:55,360 So when the call went out from the Pueblo, hey, we're being 364 00:23:55,360 --> 00:24:00,680 harassed and stuff, there were no, there were no the closest 365 00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:05,480 air assets that were none nuclear alert were down in Naha, 366 00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:10,000 Okinawa. So while we're still fighting 367 00:24:10,000 --> 00:24:17,000 Vietnam, we sent TDY F4 squadrons from Seymour Johnson 368 00:24:18,160 --> 00:24:26,160 to be to be at the Kunsan and we sent F1 O sixes from initially 369 00:24:26,160 --> 00:24:28,920 start out, Minot I think. And then it went through all the 370 00:24:28,960 --> 00:24:34,560 Air Defence Command, F1 O sixes. Now the F that necessitated them 371 00:24:34,560 --> 00:24:39,760 modifying the F1O6 to become air refuel because the F1O6 up until 372 00:24:39,760 --> 00:24:41,840 that point wasn't air refuelable. 373 00:24:41,840 --> 00:24:45,040 And the only way you'd be able to make it would be to island 374 00:24:45,040 --> 00:24:48,840 hop and that would take too long to get there. 375 00:24:48,840 --> 00:24:53,440 So for a period of time you had the 10 sixes and you had the 376 00:24:53,440 --> 00:24:59,920 FTDYF fours roaming around in Korea besides your normal alert 377 00:24:59,920 --> 00:25:03,840 tasking. OK, the alert tasking back then 378 00:25:03,840 --> 00:25:07,600 started out with the one hundreds and F1 oh fives. 379 00:25:08,120 --> 00:25:13,440 As the Vietnam War progressed, those assets disappeared and 380 00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:17,240 they were replaced by F fours. And basically what it was, was 381 00:25:17,240 --> 00:25:21,360 as the 10 Fives were being shot down in Southeast Asia, they 382 00:25:21,360 --> 00:25:24,920 were going, they were being tasked to go down there, use 383 00:25:24,920 --> 00:25:30,160 that force out of Southeast Asia, went N to replace those in 384 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:34,200 the, in the units and stuff. The primary fighter squadrons 385 00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,480 that were in Japan at the time when, when I say Japan, I'm 386 00:25:37,480 --> 00:25:42,000 talking about the islands of Japan were the 35th to 36th and 387 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:44,760 the 80th squadrons. And they were, they were 388 00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:47,040 assigned to the ATAC Fighter Wing. 389 00:25:47,720 --> 00:25:52,360 However, now is that Bee determined that they wanted the 390 00:25:52,400 --> 00:25:56,400 ATAC Fighter Wing to be one of the wings down in Thailand. 391 00:25:57,160 --> 00:26:00,200 So they deployed, they took the name ATAC Fighter Wing. 392 00:26:00,520 --> 00:26:05,680 They went to Ubon and then the 35th, the 36th and the 30s and 393 00:26:05,680 --> 00:26:09,880 the 80th rotate around air divisions or whatever as far as 394 00:26:09,880 --> 00:26:14,800 reporting chain of command want up in Japan. 395 00:26:14,800 --> 00:26:17,200 OK. And they were primarily out of 396 00:26:17,200 --> 00:26:20,600 your coda, OK. And their whole purpose up there 397 00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:26,760 was they had to man the alert sites of Kunsan and Osan for for 398 00:26:26,760 --> 00:26:37,560 the alert. OK 1972 ish is when the we had 399 00:26:37,560 --> 00:26:41,880 our end the World War 2 treaty with the Japanese came to an 400 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:44,200 end. And so we're turning stuff back 401 00:26:44,200 --> 00:26:47,520 to the Japanese. One of the requirements they had 402 00:26:47,520 --> 00:26:50,640 was they didn't want any fighters on the main islands. 403 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,440 So now you got those 3 fighter squadrons, you need a place to 404 00:26:54,440 --> 00:26:56,760 go. And now the Air Force says, 405 00:26:56,760 --> 00:27:00,600 well, we'll just put them at the org sites and build up the org 406 00:27:00,600 --> 00:27:04,440 sites, OK. Kusan had more of an 407 00:27:04,440 --> 00:27:08,240 infrastructure. That was Kusan was also known as 408 00:27:08,240 --> 00:27:14,080 KA K8 man Korean airfield agents goes back to the Korean War Osan 409 00:27:14,080 --> 00:27:17,720 was K-55. Osan was starting to be built at 410 00:27:17,720 --> 00:27:23,080 the end of the Korean War. So Osan basically had nothing on 411 00:27:23,080 --> 00:27:25,400 it as far as sport. And that's why both of those 412 00:27:25,400 --> 00:27:29,120 bases were remote for so long. In fact, Kunsan is today.