Well, hey everybody, welcome to STRONGER Weekly, brought to you
by Purest Nutrition. I'm your host, Jesse Carajet.
Thanks for joining us today. I've got a great episode lined
up for you. Kaylin Pete, the program
specialist and spokesperson for the Family Online Safety
Institute, joins us to talk all things technology, social media,
AI through the lens of parenting.
How do we make sure we're communicating and educating our
kids around this technology, putting up guard rails to make
sure that they're using them safely, and having ongoing
conversations to ensure that we're keeping our kids safe
online. This is a continuation from last
week's episode where we unpacked the massive lawsuit that
actually found tech platforms liable for creating addictive
platforms that hook people and eventually could harm them,
especially kids. So it was a great conversation.
I think you're going to learn a lot about the big picture of
what's happening, but also get some practical tools and steps
as a parent or anyone really, to make sure that everyone is using
this technology safely. It is a very important topic
right now, and I'm so glad that Caitlin joined the show.
So she's going to join us here. But as we always do, we're first
going to jump into the health and fitness headlines.
Of the week. Let's dive in.
First up folks, What? If a few minutes of harder
exercise could be even more impactful than longer durations
of easy and moderate exercise, well, a new study says that it
just might. So.
Published in the European Heart Journal, researchers tracked
nearly 96,000 people using wrist worn accelerometers.
And they compare the total activity versus the proportion
of which was what is called intense or vigorous.
And the results, People who did more vigorous activity, even
just shorter bursts like running for the bus, had substantially
lower risks of heart disease, stroke, type 2 diabetes,
dementia, arthritis, chronic kidney disease, liver disease
and respiratory disease. So basically all the worst
things in the world that you don't want.
And the key finding, it's not just about how much you move
total, it's about how hard you push yourself.
So intensity does matters. So take away if you're currently
walking, try to throw in some jogs in the middle of it.
If you're cycling, throw in some sprints.
If you're not doing anything rigorous at all, start to do it
because quality of the work is more important than the quantity
of the work. Next up, if you've ever felt
like your BMI, your body mass index does not tell the whole
story of your health, new research says you might be
right. And this is something that I've
always noticed. My BMI, I don't know, it's like
2324. I'm supposed to be obese and I
am not, doesn't make sense to me.
So a new study to be presented at the European Congress on
Obesity used DXA. DEXA scans, the gold standard
for measuring body fat, to compare actual body composition
with BMI classification. Stay with me.
They found that more than 1/3 of adults were placed in the wrong
weight category based on those results.
So amongst those labeled obese by BMI standards, 34% should
have been classified as overweight.
Amongst those labeled overweight, more than half were
reclassified, most of them to normal weight and in the
underweight category, nearly 70% were actually normal weight.
So lead author Professor Marwyn L Goach put it simply quote a
large proportion of individuals are misclassified when relying
on the traditional BMI classification.
So the take away BMI is a rough down and dirty estimate.
It is not a diagnosis. Measures like waist
circumference or body fat percentage give a more complete
picture of your health. Guys, let's talk about
supplements real quick. There's so many options out
there. It is so important to find a
supplement company that focuses on quality ingredients.
They give you what you need and none of the junk that you don't.
Which is why Purest Nutrition is my supplement partner and I.
Absolutely. Love and I'm amped up about
their pre workout supplement. Guys, you got to try this.
I've taken every pre workout under the sun in the 20 years
that I've been lifting. I've taken junk.
I never really cared about the quality and the ingredients.
Sometimes that leaves me feeling jittery.
That's why purist pre workout is incredible.
Not only does it have the things that you need to have an amped
workout, things like caffeine, things like B vitamins, but it's
also got nootropics, things like Alpha GPC and L theanine, which
help counterbalance the up so that you just feel centered.
You have a great workout, but none of the jittery, none of the
nonsense, none of the artificial ingredients.
And I pair that with their creatine and it's the same
flavor and I love that. I love the Peach mango flavor.
I can put them both together, 10 milligrams creatine, get the
strength and the nootropic qualities, plus the pre workout
got an awesome workout. So you've got to try their
creatine and their pre workout. You can go to
purestnutrition.com. Again, that's Purest
nutrition.com to shop all of their products.
I couldn't recommend it more. Again, that's Purest
nutrition.com. You got to try their pre workout
and their creatine. Next up, got some news on
peptides. If you follow fitness or
longevity circles or news, you've probably heard of
peptides. They are compounds like BPC 157,
IPA, Morolin and Motcs. Don't worry, you don't have to
know what that is that people are using for things like tissue
repair, fat loss and anti aging. Some people muscular growth,
mental health I've heard as well.
Well, right now most of them are not FDA approved and compounding
pharmacies aren't allowed to make them, but that may change
soon. So as Health Secretary RFK
Junior said in February, he expected the FDA to reclassify
about 14 peptides within just weeks, opening the door for
compounding pharmacies to produce them legally a month
later. From then, no action had been
taking. The Wellness world is watching
clearly. And if you're an investor, you
should probably be watching clearly as well.
So the case for the change, why do this?
Right now? People are buying peptides from
overseas or Gray market websites selling quote, UN quote,
research grade products that aren't meant for humans at all.
And the black market and the Gray market are running amok.
That's a quote, said Scott Brunner of the Alliance for
Pharmacy Compounding. And then the concern is this.
Most of these compounds haven't even been tested for safety in
humans. And without rigorous testing in
trials, we don't even know if they can cause terrible things
like liver damage, immune reactions, or even just
literally like disease, physical harm.
So for now, it's something to keep an eye on.
If you're currently using peptides, please make sure you
are doing that under the guidance of a doctor.
You're fully vetting where you're sourcing them from and
justice be careful until our FDA or government has a better
chance to kind of vet put a process in place to make it safe
and accessible for everybody. Next up, added to the rando file
here. But the CDC has paused
diagnostic testing for more than two dozen infectious diseases,
including things like rabies, monkey pox and parasitic
infections. So the agency says it's part of
a routine quality review and expects many tests to return in
the coming weeks. But the move comes after
significant staffing cuts. The CDC lost an estimated 20 to
25% of its entire workforce over the past year alone.
The pox virus and rabies labs alone lost about half of their
staff, so it could be a connection there.
So some of the pause tests are available through commercial
labs, but others, especially for rare diseases, depend on CDC
expertise. So Scott Becker of the
Association of Public Health Laboratories called the pauses
quote concerning only if it's permanent.
State labs in New York and California can pick up some of
the slack, but not every state has the same capacity.
So interesting move here by the CDC.
And last up, folks, let's talk about fraud, particularly in the
state of California and perhaps across the country.
Federal officials have arrested eight people in the state of
California this week in a $50 million healthcare fraud scheme,
most of it involving fake Hospice care.
So more on that. The charges center on Hospice
facilities in the Los Angeles area that builds Medicare for
patients who are not terminally ill and did not even qualify for
Hospice services in the 1st place.
One pair of providers allegedly were recruiting and paying
patients $300 a month to sign up for Hospice care that they don't
even need. In other words, they're not
expected to die anytime soon. And then billing the government
for reimbursement. Just disgusting.
One facility had a survival rate of 97%, meaning on Hospice,
almost no one died. And just to put that into
context, in legitimate Hospice care, you can expect that to be
typically closer to about 80%. So CMS Administrator Doctor Oz
said the agency has already suspended 221 hospices in the
state of California in the last 10 weeks alone and is reviewing
every Hospice in the state. Get em.
It's a reminder fraud in healthcare does not just waste
taxpayer money. It undermines care for the
people who actually need it. I, I hate this stuff when I hear
the people who are doing this, this is taxpayer dollars and
people need it. There are people who genuinely
need the support. And then you have these
financial predators that are out there that see a loophole and
jump in and take advantage of that system, diverting the
actual care from people who need it to their own pockets, Right.
And it's disgusting. It's a true crime.
It does real harm. And I'm so glad our government
is focusing on this in California, and I hope they do
it throughout the country. So power to them.
All right, folks. And that's it for our Health and
Fitness News of the WEEK. Caitlin, welcome to the show.
Thanks for coming. Yeah.
So glad to be on here today. Excited to speak with you.
Yeah, the pleasure is all mine. Very, very timely topic we're
going to discuss here. And I know that parents kind of
like all over the country, given the news lately in the world of
social media and AI, are just kind of like looking for tips
and guidance on how to kind of manage this thing, especially
with their kids. But let's start here.
For people who don't know the Family Online Safety Institute,
AKA FOCI, can you just give an overview of what that is?
Yeah. Absolutely.
So here if OC, we're A5O1C3, so we're a non profit and our goal
is just to make the world safer for kids and their families.
So what's really special about our work is we kind of have
three PS in which we do this, which is policy practice and
parenting. And so we're really able to kind
of sit at the intersection of parents, educators, tech
companies, industry and policy makers to kind of figure out how
do we tackle these issues. You know that as you spoke to
earlier, everyone's kind of struggling with at the moment.
Yeah, and how long has Fosi been around?
Fosi's been around for 20 years, so actually this December we're
going to have our 20th kind of annual conference to to
celebrate 20 years of online safety work.
Wow, congratulations. How did it start and who started
it? Yeah, it.
Was started by Steven Bolcombe If you were kind of in the
online safety space or have heard about it, he is kind of
one of The Pioneers. He in the early 2000s at the
start of, you know, the web one point O realized that this web
world as we know it is progressing and there's a big
gap for kids specifically and how to make sure that they're
safe and supported. And so he created the family
online Safety Institute. We've been growing ever since.
Wow, shout out to him. He saw he saw a need a long time
ago and we're starting to realize now like, whoa, we, we
need some help guidance here. You mentioned partner with tech
companies. I know from doing some research,
Apple, Google, TikTok, Roblox, I don't know what that last one
is, but what is what is that partnership look like?
How does foci kind of lean in with them to make sure that
they're putting in some guardrails for safety?
Yeah. Absolutely.
I think just to kind of before I dive into that answer, I think
that, you know, sometimes when people hear foci and that we're
kind of working with tech, you know, may give rise to some
alarm. But I think it's really
important to note that, you know, these tech companies are
the ones that are making these platforms that, you know, we use
that children use. And so it's a balance of
figuring out when we're working with tech companies, where are
these gaps and how can they make features better so that they
support younger kids. And, you know, how can we do
product testing to make sure that before a new piece of
technology comes out that it's and it's ready and there's no
gaps that could potentially hurt younger kids, teens or families.
So definitely, definitely a big and good collaboration.
Got it. Now, does Fosi reach out to them
or do they reach out to you for that guidance?
Usually it's both. So when, for example, if a tech
company is releasing best practices for families, they'll
usually reach out to us and we'll proactively work with them
to figure out, OK, you know, what are the goals here?
What are we missing? How can we make this better?
Reversely, if if they don't reach out to us and they release
something and we're like, you know, you guys can do better,
right? Then we're kind of proactively
going to them and figuring out, you know, let's take this back a
step and figure out how can we improve this so that families
are better supported. Got it, got it.
And then kind of like back to that, maybe more like
mechanically like So what does that partnership look like once
you're engaged with them? Do you have team members that
kind of consult, embed themselves, meet with them
regularly? Just kind of unpack that if you
could, Yeah. Absolutely.
So kind of going back to our three PS kind of the main teams
that Foci are parenting, which I lead, we have a policy team and
then we have our practice team. And so each of us do regular
check insurance with members to support them on each of these
pillars, depending where they need help.
You know, recently there's been kind of a lot of online safety
kind of in federal legislative news.
And so our policy team has really been leaning in to
support members. But conversely, you know, if if
a member is creating, you know, a new resource for parents or
maybe they want to do a webinar, then, you know, I would reach
out and figure out how we can best support them.
So we try to make it very targeted so that it's not super
high level, but it's very niche and stuff that can be kind of
directly inputted into their work.
Yeah. And you mentioned you mentioned
policy lately. So let's let's move there.
Of course, there was this, they're calling it watershed,
you know, trial in California. And essentially just bear with
me here as I try to summarize for the audience if they're
they're not aware, but for a while now, and these are this is
how I would phrase it, social media platforms kind of posture
towards the the issue of kids getting addicted.
People get addicted is, hey, look, we made the platform.
We're not responsible for what's on it and what happens.
And you jump in and correct me if, if I'm miscategorizing
anything, right? But this, this so far, so good.
So the trial last week, essentially the a jury found
that the platforms are responsible in that they've
designed it in such a way that the platform itself uses
addictive features that then hook the people on the contents.
Am I still accurate? Yeah, which which people are
thinking is going to unlock now that they were found guilty of
that many, many copycat lawsuits and in fact over 2000 are
already kind of pending. Little diatribe here, but I've
noticed I'm getting served ads on my own Instagram from legal
firms who are like kind of looking for people to bring
those cases. I know that Met in particular
has laid off and fired hundreds and hundreds of employees in
anticipation of more lawsuits. And that's all context to kind
of just ask you if you can just give your thoughts or unpack
like what happened last week and what we might expect going
forward, especially in the world of social media specifically.
Yeah. Absolutely.
You know, it's funny that you mentioned those ads because
since last week I've also started to get those on my book
and Instagram. So, you know, maybe they're
talking everywhere. Yeah, but to be just very
specific. So Meta and YouTube were found
liable for addictive product designs that specifically caused
emotional distress to a user. And so this is really important
because from a legal perspective, this hasn't really
happened before. It it's important to give it
context that this is just one trial on behalf of one person.
But like you said it, it kind of represents a shift and that, you
know, social media companies and just tech industry in general
can start to be legally liable for, you know, the harms that
are potentially caused to their users.
So prior to this, you know, we didn't see this because there
are certain pieces of legislation in the US that
sometimes protect industry from what's on their platforms.
As you spoke to earlier, that's kind of the position of, you
know, we created this, but we're there's a disconnect on kind of
the direct impacts of what happens on that platform they
created. And now there's kind of more of
a connect and what a user experiences and how that impacts
their health specifically, you know, mental health, physical
health, and, you know, anything along the lines of that.
Yeah, and my, my guess here is now more than ever, those tech
companies are going to need the help of Foci and others.
I'm assuming your guys phones are ringing off the hooks.
Yeah. It's been a busy few weeks,
yeah. I bet real quick I hate the B
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men's grooming products. And I, I also know that there
are some countries across the world who are kind of ahead of
us addressing the issue of what to do with this social media
thing. Countries like Australia that
have actually they have social media bands.
I, I, I think for Australia it might be 16 and younger.
There's other countries up to 18.
Do you, in your opinion, if you had a crystal ball, do you think
that that's where we're heading in America I.
Don't believe so. I think that there's a lot of
moving pieces in the US specifically.
So it's kind of a unique case study where we see a bit of a
patchwork in terms of what states are doing versus what's
happening at the federal level. So the federal level, of course,
is moving very, very slowly, and states are kind of creating
different laws and pieces of legislation to make sure that
users are more protected. But there's nothing signaling a
nationwide ban that would pass in the US kind of anytime soon.
You know, from Fosi's perspective, we think that bans
in some circumstances can be a bit harmful because a blanket
ban doesn't take into account, you know, the individual needs
of kids or the families or even kind of the state.
We think that have targeted and thoughtful restrictions are more
balanced way to approach that instead of just, you know,
slapping a ban on something and kind of moving on.
Two follow up questions there. We'll start with the you said
targeted and thoughtful is. It possible?
Let's. Just say hypothetically US did
want to ban access to social media.
Is it? Possible.
Do we have the technology to target it in such a way that we
can prevent kiddos and teenagers from getting on platforms?
Yeah. I mean, I think that that opens
the door to another larger question, which is age
assurance, right? And so I think even in Australia
and some of the EU countries that have thought about bans and
have enacted them, you know, age assurance by definition is how
technology companies figure out how old a user is.
And so some of these ways can be, you know, you just
inputting, you know, I was born in 1970, right?
So they kind of take that at face value.
And you were, you know, 50 years old.
Other forms of age assurance are they're sometimes facial
indicators. So you know when you use an
iPhone, you have kind of the face Idi don't know if you've
ever used that before. And in this instance it would
use your face and estimate your age.
There's also Google has a kind of a cool thing where you self
declare so you input your age manually and based off of your
Google searches and your habits, it makes a further indication if
that age is accurate. So back to your question, I I
think that countries are struggling to figure out which
form of age assurance would be the best while also balancing
those kind of privacy concerns because users aren't jumping at
the opportunity to provide more information about themselves to
tech companies and not necessarily knowing where their
data is going. So that makes it a bit hard to
do it to do a ban. Got it.
And then my other, my other follow up question is that when
you in your answer there, you said it could be harmful to, to
ban kids or, you know, teenagers from social media.
What would be harmful about that?
What, what, what? What about Removing that access
could negatively impact their life.
Yeah, absolutely. You know, I think that sometimes
we don't give kids enough credit.
You know, I think that there is an implication that sometimes
kids go on social media and they're just kind of doom
scrolling and it's a completely negative experience.
But we actually did some research that was released in
December that said a majority of kids use social media for
connection. There's also a large portion of
children that use social media to explore identities.
So, you know, those belonging to the LGBTQ plus community.
So when you're removing this kind of digital world that
they've grown up in, it kind of makes them not only lose
connections, it prevents them from learning more about
themselves as they develop. And they kind of are hit with a
brick wall. So you take this away and
there's nothing to replace it. So, So what?
What do kids do you know? Yeah, yeah.
I mean, I, I suppose for that population, what would they do?
They would probably feel more isolated and alone in the world
with what they're dealing with. And I get that.
I totally get that. I think what it would probably
come down to is a is a cost benefit analysis, right?
If you remove something which is more important, right, What you
lose or, or what not. And, and I'm focusing a lot here
on like the social media that I think most people are accustomed
to. But I know that you work with
other types of tech companies. I mentioned Google, I mentioned
Apple and Roblox. What kind of work are you doing
with those types of organizations?
So. Google, for example, we have
been working with them a lot on AI, which is as you spoke to
earlier, kind of the new buzz worthy thing that everyone is
trying to deal with. So just figuring out how them
and some of our other members like Entropic, making sure that
their rental controls and that their AI is is safe for someone
like Roblox. You know, that's a bit of a
unique example because that's kind of a gaming platform where
you see a high use percentage for kids as well as a high use
percentage for adults. So making sure that those two
distinct groups stay distinct and there's not no potential for
overlap that would lead to harm. Got it, got it.
And on the topic of like the Robloxes of the world and even
maybe back to social media, when we talk about harm, I, I know
just for me being a consumer of news that some of that harm is
actually these platforms give access to these kids.
I don't know if I'm phrasing this right, but by predators,
people who want to engage, lure and do physical harm and
sometimes mentally, emotionally harm, especially with, with
Roblox, I've listed, I've I've heard some podcasts that talk
about that as a platform where predators are just kind of
waiting. Is that something that your
organization is is focusing on and even considering when you're
when you're thinking about the big picture with these
platforms, access to kids and how they might be harmed?
Yeah. Absolutely.
And and I think that goes back to what I was saying about age
assurance. And so for a lot of these
platforms, when you have a younger demographic and an older
demographic, sometimes the younger, younger demographic is
finding ways to get on parts of the platform or parts of an app
that are meant for older people. And that's when a lot of these
negative interactions are happening.
To text credit, a lot of these companies that we work with have
wonderful trust and safety teams and their rental controls, if
used correctly, are, are very, very good at setting a baseline
to make sure that your child is foundationally safe.
Again, these aren't waterproof solutions, but you know, it's a
very good baseline to for parents to use.
I think some of these those issues come up when parents are
busy and parents are overwhelmed.
But you know, when if a child downloads roadblocks and you
just kind of give them the app and they run off and play with
it as they will instead of a parent looking into the app,
what are the risks? What are the parental controls?
Have I used the parental controls correctly to make sure
it's kind of a guided process instead of just diving into the
deep end, you know? Yeah, you mentioned parental
controls if used correctly. That's the question, right?
Last week on our episode, we, I, I kind of asked the rhetorical
question of, you know, when it comes to kids safety online or
on social media, how much responsibility goes to the
parents? And let's just make an
assumption here, assuming, assuming they have parents who
are engaged, right? And how much of the
responsibility goes to the tech companies themselves?
And I'll just kind of pitch you that that question like where,
where does that responsibility lie?
That's. A tough question.
You know, I think everyone's really struggling with this, but
but I think, you know, like it's assigning a specific percentage
is a bit harmful. I think that it to to look at it
more as a communal effort is, is pretty essential because, you
know, everyone has a role to play or a role to play.
You know, parents, they're kind of the first line of defense,
right? So what you're teaching your
children, even outside of the digital world is going to
reflect how they behave inside of the digital world.
You know, tech obviously needs to be held accountable and they
need to make sure that their platforms are safe for kids.
And then another dynamic, which I think sometimes people miss is
just from, you know, an education perspective, are
children in schools getting the tools that they need to learn
these basic skills to use online?
You know, sometimes I think we look at the online world and we
just assume that kids know how to act and how not to act, but
that's not necessarily the case. So, you know, are we providing
them as educators the tools that they need?
So it's really everyone does play a part.
I wouldn't say it's, you know, specifically 30%, thirty
percent, 30%, but you know, it's, it's, it's, it's important
for everyone. Well put, and I and I know that
Fosi has. Seven steps to good digital
parenting. Which kind of a framework to
help parents to learn? How to be?
Better parents with this stuff and we're going to kind of land
this plane there. But because we we started on AIA
little bit, if I'm not mistaken, Foci just released research on
how teens are using generative AII Would love to hear.
I think I know what that is. I want to hear your explanation.
But like, what are they doing with it?
Should parents be concerned about this generative AI?
Can you unpack that a little bit?
Yeah. Absolutely.
So just to provide kind of a foundation and Gen.
AI is the tools that you see like ChatGPT or claws.
These are tools that you kind of input a prompt and then it gives
you a response back. And so we released a research
report, I believe in November called Generative AI and
uncertain times. And the the goal of this was
really to see not only how kids were using Gen.
AI, but to figure out how their parents also thought they were
using it because sometimes there can be, you know, a bit of a
disconnect there. And so we found that more than
half of teens were using this more than once a week, which is
pretty significant. We also found that nearly 60% of
parents didn't have rules around Gen.
AI. So we have this majority of
teens that are using this almost daily, but the majority of
parents don't really know one, what this technology may be and
to kind of any use rules around it.
And so we really kind of figured out that this is embedded into
teens everyday life, but there's a gap that exists that, you
know, we, we need to to close. Any any research or any stats
around at what age kids are picking this stuff up?
Yeah. So our study measured teens as
well as the parents of the teens, but I would say important
distinction here. So sometimes kids can be
introduced to AI as young as two or three years old.
And this is not in the ChatGPT sense that that you would kind
of think, But you know, when a child is engaging, for example,
with an Alexa, so kind of that speaker that they can have a
conversation with or prompt to play a song or even a lullaby,
that is Gin AI. So again, different forms of Gin
AI. But you know, the the
introduction can happen very, very young and kind of
progresses all the way to the teen years.
Wow, different forms. Very important to note.
I didn't even think about that. And I, and we have Alexa and,
and there's times where like we're sitting around the dinner
table and let's just say my, my second grader ask a question
like, you know, Daddy, you know who, who is the 20th president
of the United States? And I've actually had this
instinct that I'm not modeling something that's healthy.
And you can tell me, but I'll turn and go Alexa, who is the
20th president. And she's picking up that if she
doesn't know an answer, she can walk across the room and do it.
And there was 1 moment where she asked me if she can take Alexa
into her room and listen to music.
And I said sure because I thought that's what she was
going to do. And then I walked by her room
and she was having a conversation with Alexa.
Would you say that's a pink, red, yellow flag for me to make
sure I'm putting guardrails around that?
You know I. Never like to assign specific
labels, but I would say I, I would hope that the Alexa had
parental controls because, you know, if your child has Alexa in
her room without parental controls, I mean, the
conversations and information that she could access could be
very much not appropriate for her age.
And you know, in some circumstances, very harmful
information that she could have access to.
So I wouldn't say maybe an Alexa in in a bedroom is the best
idea. But again, you know, parenting
is a journey, so it's not wrong or right.
It's next time making sure that you know you change that
behavior a little bit. Yeah, and it was probably, I
just overlooked, I thought, I think, hey, this is the speaker,
it's music and she knows how to ask for play the Zombies
soundtrack, right? And I wasn't thinking that she'd
be engaging with AI and look at that lesson for me right off the
bat. A quick anecdote, if if there's
been I've been doing this podcast for over 2 years and
covering the news for about a year and if there's a if there's
if I had to choose one news article or story that just
really made me angry. I just I thought emotions was
somewhat recently on Capitol Hill, a committee on this very
topic invited parents whose children were groomed.
That's the word they used toward suicide in private conversations
with these generative AIS or Gen.
AIS. I'm sure you were watching the
news. How did that land with you and
your, your organization? And, and what are what are those
companies doing about that? So I, I think the core problem
here is that when AI was created, it was kind of a rush
to the finish line and, you know, more innovation, more
innovation making it better and faster.
And so it was largely rolled out, but with no kind of
parental controls or no ability to see how it could be used in
the worst cases. And so we've seen in our
research as well that there is a portion of teens that rely on
Gen. AI and chat bots for emotional
support. You know, maybe they're not
getting the support at home. Some have said that it's easier
to talk to a chat bot than a human because it's free of shame
and judgement. And so when you have some of
these platforms that have no mental health training and no
medical background responding to kids who are in mental health
crisis, that's when you end up with situations like you saw on
the Hill where you know, they're not given the appropriate
supports and a chat bot says something that's completely
inappropriate or not supportive enough and that causes no
physical harm to the child. So that's that's definitely
something that we've been working on.
Is there a potential for them to put guardrails on that where
they can, they can get to a point where like, hey, there's
a, there's a boundary here. If, if a kids asking basic
questions like what is anxiety, what is panic disorder,
whatever. But then at a certain point they
they stop that conversation and just train those models to be
more responsible. Yeah, absolutely.
Some of the the more recent models like Claws, Anthropic and
ChatGPT, now, when they sense a conversation going in a certain
way, they'll stop the conversation and they'll
provide, for example, you know, the resource to the National
Suicide Prevention Hotline. So instead of taking these
conversations all the way to the end like they previously did,
without these guardrails, there's more guardrails, right?
So these conversations don't end up somewhere that's very
dangerous. But users have support.
They're still able to have these conversations, but not to the
extent they were prior. Yeah.
And and do you think in the future, or maybe they're already
doing this, but are there like versions of these platforms,
ChatGPT, Anthropic that are more custom made in specific for
teens? In other words, some of the
features are cut off and parents can like help them set it up on
their kids phone and just know and have the Peace of Mind that
it has limitations versus the adult version we have.
Seen a number of startups, some of these AI companies targeted
at, you know, kids below 13, above 8, which allow them to
have, you know, simple help with homework or ask simple questions
similar to what you did with your daughter, you know, who was
the 34th president. Or they can have very surface
level conversations that provide them with information instead of
deeper conversations. We've also seen some targeted at
teens. These are a little more
questionable I would say, but there is a want in the industry
for more specific apps for under thirteens and above thirteens
that aren't these ones, I thought.
I saw recently that I think Meta may have like rolled out a teen
version of Instagram or something like that.
Is that ring true? Yeah.
That's Meta's teen accounts. Teen accounts they've.
Been doing a. Big marketing push, Yeah, I've
seen that as well. I saw that.
As well. Yeah.
Talk a little bit about that. Is that new or is that has that
been around and now they're just promoting it more so it's.
Interesting because Instagram has always had parental controls
where a parent can implement screen time restrictions or
content restrictions for teens. So I think this is more of a
marketing strategy where now there's something called a teen
account where a parent can create this account for someone
under the age of 18 and they have more insight into what the
teen is doing. So they can see the pages that
they're liking. They can see to some degree the
people that they may be DM ING as well as general.
I believe it gives overview as to what type of content the teen
saw that day. So it's kind of a more of an
open door into what your teen is doing instead of just kind of
baseline 2 hours a day on the on the app or the app turns off at
10:00 for bedtime. It's it's more descriptive of
the behavior. I, I sense that you might, you
might not like what I'm about to say, but as it relates to like
privacy for like my own kids, there is none like.
So what I, what I would want is like if I, let's just say, let
hypothetically my, my kids are young, right?
Eight. My oldest kid is 8.
But when she gets to this age where she's asking to use these
technologies, if there's a version that is called safe teen
safe for her. Let's go back to ChatGPT.
What I would hope for, what I would want is if there's certain
keywords, like if she, if she types in the word suicide into
this platform, I want to push notification with an alarm bell
and I want her phone to turn off.
But I don't know if I don't know if there's any potential for
that level. So yeah.
I think you and a parent, you and a lot of parents want the
same thing, to be honest. Yeah, there are there, there are
several applications that I think are at the device level
that's similar to what you're saying, kind of read a child's
activity throughout a phone or an app.
And when they get those, you know, keywords like harm, you
know, suicide, eating disorder, those triggers, I think
notifications get sent to the parents.
So there are apps like that out there, one of which is called
Bark. But there is that idea of the
intrusiveness versus the privacy of, you know, a child or a teen.
Those, those are very much a balance and it's hard to find
that balance. Yeah, I.
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Because. Your nutrition should work as
hard as you do 1. More question on AI and then I
want to move towards practical advice that you would give
parents that are listening. But I know that there's AI
powered toys. I know that they are those
things. I don't know what they are.
I know there's AI tutors, AI companions.
Can you talk a little bit about those types of features that
could be really helpful for from an educational standpoint, I
guess? One of the main AI toys that's
hit the market recently is called Grok.
I'm not sure if you've heard Grok before.
I've heard. Of it, yes, yes.
So this is an AI kind of plushy. Our our CEO Stephen Balcom
actually has one that sits in his desk right behind him.
But a toy like this is specifically marketed towards
children, and it has some of those parental controls that we
were talking about. And so a child can have very
simple conversations with this plush to develop some of its
social emotional speaking skills.
But when, for example, the child is finished speaking with the
plush, a parent would get a written overview of the entire
discussion. So again, there's still a
question of, you know, should a child be speaking to a plush in
general or would these social emotional skills be better
developed with, you know, a human, a parent, a teacher,
which I tend to to learn more to that side.
But nonetheless, there are products that are starting to be
marketed for those developmental aspects and those educational
aspects. Is there any risk?
This is my goofy mind at work here, but when I think about
like an AI powered toy talking to my kid, is there any risk
that someone's going to like, hack that thing and turn it into
like, Chucky from Child's Play and it's going to start saying
all these evil things to my child?
Yeah. You know, that's a great
question. You know, I'm not too into the
the technical side of hacking and those things, but these toys
are connected to the Internet, right?
That's how they're generating these responses.
But I would assume they're they're pretty kind of locked in
terms of, you know, any Chucky style people kind of taking it
and, you know, heading South. So I hope so that would.
Be horrifying if I look across the room and all of a sudden
just look in its eyes around. Thanks for humoring my sense of
humor. Alright, let's if it's OK with
you, let's go to some practical steps.
So what if if you could, why don't you walk us through either
the seven steps to good digital parenting.
However, you want to speak to my listeners to give them some
practical advice, yeah. Absolutely.
So I think maybe a high level of our, our seven steps would be
really great. You know, we created these seven
steps because as I've spoken to before, parents are, are just
overwhelmed, right? There's so many applications,
there's so many devices and parents don't really know kind
of where to start. And in some cases parents,
right, are working several jobs, maybe they're a single parent.
So we created the several 7 steps to give a concrete on a
road map into what parents should do to create a healthy
digital foundation for their kids.
And so at its core, the most important thing that we stress
to parents, you know, every event that we do is
communication. And so that's talking with your
child early and often and even more than that, creating a space
where they feel comfortable, right?
So if something doesn't feel right, you know, if something
has happened on one of these online platforms, they don't go
back and reclude, but they come to you and they, they are
comfortable discussing it. So open conversations is always
our number one. From there, a really important
part is just staying informed. Again, I know that there is a
lot going on in the digital world.
But you know, to your point, without the Roblox earlier, you
know, if you have an 8 or 9 year old child that wants to download
an app like that, just making sure that you do the research
before you download it and just hand kind of the iPad over to
your to your child to understand, OK, what are the
mechanics of this? What are the risks and what are
the benefits, right. Because not all technology is
just a negative, which I think we sometimes get a little stuck
in, especially in today's, you know, world.
And I and I think that the next step is just also building on
with that, just making sure that you're using parental controls.
And so these are kind of the first defense of being able to
make sure that there's some foundation of safety.
And so every app, mostly every app, mostly every device has
some set of parental controls. And so just finding the one that
works best for you and your family and that aligns with the
maturity of your child because there's different and some may
work better and some may not work at all.
I guess kind of one of the last things is we like to have
parents model positive behavior. And this one's really, really
important. And I think it's sometimes a bit
difficult for parents, but I'll just give you an example.
You know, if you have the expectation that your child
shouldn't be on their phone at the dinner table, but you're on
your phone, you know, most of the day or even at the dinner
table, it's kind of hard for you to implement that boundary when
your child is seeing that you don't do that yourself.
So just making sure that you have a tech balance, that you're
following these kind of safe practices and then kind of
expecting your child to do that as well because modeling is
important. Children are always kind of
watching us, looking to us to see how they should behave.
Yeah, walk the walk. Yeah.
What's your thoughts on this? I've already had conversations
with my 8 year old where she's asking for access to something,
right? Like she wants to, she wants to
go on see this thing, she wants to maybe have YouTube on where
she can just kind of like browse a different short or something
to watch. And when I try to explain to her
or think through how to explain to her why she can't, one of the
things in the back of my mind is I don't want to plant the seed
that this is a dangerous world, right?
Like you don't want to put so much fear in them that they
start to see the world around them as a dangerous place.
But I kind of do want her to have that awareness, right?
Like to any any thoughts or even just kind of like respond to
that. But like, how do parents
communicate to kids why they can't have access to these
platforms, but doing it in such a way that you're also not
creating this fear or anxiety about the world around them, I.
Think that what we really like to lean into is not putting a
hard boundary of you can't have this app, but we like to say not
right now. And so instead of them kind of
creating this image that they're never going to get it, that
they're never going to have it right in the conversation goes
left there. You know, if you, you frame it
as a delay, Well, this, these are the reasons why this app may
not be right for us right now, but let's revisit this in a
month or let's revisit this when you're, you're 10.
And so it opens the door, you know, in a child's mind to,
okay, you know, I can eventually get there because if you give
them a hard boundary and you say it's unsafe, you know, it, it
goes in one ear, not the other. And especially if a child goes
into their, you know, classroom and they see that their, their
friends have it and they don't, it's it's going to create a
constant back and forth and. That on that last point, that
that can be frustrating for me when the the parents of the kids
that my kids are friends with are not aligned with my wife and
I on our own boundaries in education.
And then they come back into the house and of course they're
citing their other friends that are using these things.
And I have to try to explain. So people listening, please get
get, get, get. Better with this stuff.
You mentioned screen time earlier.
I'm sensing that maybe there's not a hard and fast rule, but as
best you could, do you have any guidelines or recommendations,
maybe by age for kids, like how much time they should be
spending in these platforms or with technology in general?
I think. That it's important to note that
not all screen time is created equal, right?
And so I think when we a few years ago there was these the
kind of hard guidelines of, you know, no more than two hours a
day or no more than three hours a day.
Well, you know, now that kids are 2026 and in classrooms, kids
are mostly relying on laptops or different forms of, you know,
digital technology. So that in and of itself, they
could leave school one day and have, you know, 5 or 6 hours
worth of screen time. But this is, you know, educated
screen time. And so we really like to say
that, you know, when kids are younger, the screen time should
mostly always be monitored, right?
So when they're at their toddler age, And this is because, you
know, a child's mind is still forming and you can't just give
them an iPad and, you know, let them go off and do what they
want, right. When you set these boundaries
earlier, a child is going to carry them into adulthood.
We like to say that, you know, starting around 7:00 or 8:00,
that's kind of when a child gets their their training wheels.
And so, you know, maybe you have conversations with them about
letting them have some of these gaming apps, but making sure
again, they're using parental controls and that screen time
doesn't become something that replaces other activities.
That's one of the most important things that we like to tell
people because if a child, child uses their iPad instead of, you
know, going out to play or doing some type of sport, you know,
that's when screen time starts to become detrimental.
And then I think for teens, screen time is really something
that you have to monitor their emotional state and their
emotional behavior. And so if you see that screen
time or, you know, being on TikTok or, you know, Instagram
is starting to have a negative impact, you know, maybe they're
leaning more into comparison or they're seeing content that's
making them feel angry or hyper political.
That's when the screen time discussion needs to be had
because clearly it's not providing them with a positive,
it's it's landing in a negative. Yeah, and it sounds like it all
comes back to parents being intentional and aware and
attuned with their kid in order to even pick up on those things.
I'm going to have some fun here with you now, if you're willing.
It's funny. Yeah.
It's funny in that I just love to see my guests kind of think
they're these things. But I always love to before I go
into a little bit more on like where parents can get involved
with and learn from foci. I'd love to close with a rapid
fire, if that's OK. So as you can and and getting to
know you here over the last hour I I'm.
Sensing that some of these questions you may answer
broadly, but we'll. See how it goes.
But here's rapid fire for Kaylin, right?
So first one, should kids have smartphones before high school?
It. Depends on the circumstance of
the family and the maturity of the child.
So I can't give a hard answer to that one.
But if it works for your family, yes.
If it doesn't, then no. OK.
Fair enough. Next one.
At what age should kids get social media?
Is it going to be? It depends, you know.
I would say it should be minimum 13 but no younger than 13
because that's the baseline where a lot of these social
platforms have team specific accounts.
So anything younger is inappropriate.
I would say what is? That fifth grade, 6th grade,
typically in America, I think it's a little.
I think it's like 7th, 7th. Grade.
OK, I think it's a. Little Yeah, so. 13 love it.
One thing you wish every parent knew about online safety.
If you had to pick one, I. Would say that open
communication and conversations are the most important part of
online safety and that what reflects in the reality real
world is going to reflect in the digital world.
Got. It and last one, what is the
biggest mistakes that you commonly see parents make when
it comes to technology for their kids?
Paris. Provide their kids with devices
and apps without doing the research beforehand and then
that leads to not positive consequences.
Yeah. A little bit of laziness or
ignorance or whatever it is awesome.
Thanks for humoring me there. Great answers there, I really
appreciate it. This has been this has been
awesome. I've learned a lot.
I hope everyone listening has learned a lot.
Where can people learn more from foci and are there any
particular resources that you would want to point parents or
anyone really that wants to learn more toward?
Absolutely. So we have a website which is
kind of home to all of our resources at foci.org and I
would recommend two places on our website.
I know that throughout this conversation, I've noted a
little bit of our research. So if you go to our website and
click the research tab, you can have access to all of our recent
research on GIN, AI and phone bands if you'd like to learn
more. And then under our parenting
tab, I would suggest the Seven steps to go digital parenting
because it's a great foundation. If you're new to online safety
or just looking to learn a little bit more about it, those
are great places to start. Awesome.
And you have you have an Instagram account yourself or is
fosi on social media Fosi? Is on social media.
Yep, we're on all platforms, either FOSI or family online
Safety Institute so you can find us on LinkedIn and scram TikTok
threads and all those good thoughts.
Awesome. And I will grab all of the links
here that Caitlin mentioned. I'll put them in the episode
description for people listening.
You can just Scroll down and click on them and make it easier
for you. Caitlin, this is a exactly what
I hoped it would be and more and I'm so grateful that you came on
the show. Thank you.
It was so great speaking with you.
I hope I was ever able to teach everyone a little bit about
online safety. I know it's not the most
glamorous topic, but it's been great.
Yeah, really. You certainly did.
Thank you so much, Kaylin, Pete, everybody.
Well, thanks for listening to that conversation with Kaylin.
I certainly hope it was helpful and informative and inspired
you, especially if you're a parent.
To take a. More active role, being
attentional and attuned with your children, especially if you
are giving them this technology. Just some of my, I think most
important takeaways there that I learned with her.
Number one is that it all comes down to the parents.
I asked her that question in the episode How much of the
responsibility goes to the parents versus the tech
platforms? And she didn't give an exact
percentage, but she kept coming back to the fact that as
parents, if we are going to introduce the technology, we
have to be informed and we have to monitor the usage to keep
them safe. So I think parental involvement
was probably the number one take away that I had from that
episode. I think if I had to pick another
one, it would be that. And and this was something that
I kind of wrestled with within the interview.
But there are benefits to these technologies, right?
I'm as a parent, I quickly jumped to like, the worst case
scenario, is my child going to become isolated, depressed?
Am I giving access to my child to people who would do her harm?
And I think there's potential benefits in these technologies.
And I think another take away is that I was really appreciative
that Caitlin gave sort of a hard and fast answer when I asked
her, you know, at what age should kids be on social media?
And she said quickly, 13, right? Like no younger than 13.
I love the black and white answer.
Of course, that could be case by case.
You may delay it even further. Personally, I'm not letting my
kids touch social media until they're 18.
That's just my personal stance. But I love that she she gave
that answer of 13. And then lastly, I just think
that, you know, it's pretty clear that not every tech
company is taking this. As.
Seriously. Meaning that there are some tech
companies that are leaning in with foci, taking their
consultation and implementing those, you know, suggestions to
keep their platform safe and then others are not.
So again, it comes down to the parent to do that research and
figure out what is what. So again, just an awesome
conversation with Kaylin. You can Scroll down and I'm
going to link to all of the resources that she mentioned.
And before we part ways, I have to ask if you could, if you're
listening to this right now and you haven't followed us yet.
Wherever you found us, we would absolutely love it if you could
follow our show. We love seeing ratings and
reviews. If you want to get in touch with
us, you can always e-mail us at contact@strongerweekly.com.
againthatscontact@strongerweekly.com. We love hearing from our fans
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could wind up on the show or even influencing a topic for the
show. Just give us feedback.
Tell us you hate us. You love us, whatever it is.
We just love hearing from MU. And lastly, if you think that
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would just love it if you could share it with them because if
you do those things, it just gives us more of a shot to find
more people so that we can help them grow stronger weekly.
So thanks so much for Kaylin joining the show.
Thanks for Foci for the work that you're doing.
Thanks for everybody that tuned in.
We really appreciate you spending some time with us and
we will see you next week. Be strong.