1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:08,000 Welcome back, everyone. I am Cass PNC. 2 00:00:08,000 --> 00:00:10,480 I'm joined as usual, by my partner in crime, Mr. Bennett 3 00:00:10,480 --> 00:00:11,560 Tomlin. How are you today? 4 00:00:11,680 --> 00:00:13,360 I'm doing pretty good. How are you, Cass? 5 00:00:13,440 --> 00:00:15,480 Doing good we are going to be talking about. 6 00:00:16,360 --> 00:00:21,040 I feel like this is just a topic that never goes away as much as 7 00:00:21,040 --> 00:00:24,680 I want it to. Our boy Justin Son and his 8 00:00:24,680 --> 00:00:29,980 stable coin, True USD. I guess I shouldn't be saying 9 00:00:29,980 --> 00:00:33,100 his stable coin, but that's what we all know it as at this point. 10 00:00:33,460 --> 00:00:36,740 But yeah, we're going to get into all the weird shit that's 11 00:00:36,740 --> 00:00:40,740 been going on with it. It's been just a strange even we 12 00:00:40,740 --> 00:00:44,180 were talking about it last time with the data Finavation boys. 13 00:00:44,260 --> 00:00:47,380 There's been some weird updates, the lawsuit, etc. 14 00:00:48,220 --> 00:00:50,300 So, so let's start, Let's start there. 15 00:00:50,300 --> 00:00:51,700 Let's start with the lawsuit. Sure. 16 00:00:52,220 --> 00:00:55,860 So just for some context, last time we talked about this with 17 00:00:55,860 --> 00:00:59,370 Jonathan Reiter and Patrick Tan. The world, or at least the 18 00:00:59,370 --> 00:01:04,410 knowledgeable connected world, assumed true USD was connected 19 00:01:04,410 --> 00:01:07,330 to Justin's son. We knew Justin's son was a 20 00:01:08,250 --> 00:01:12,890 partner market maker, but we assumed that since December 2020 21 00:01:12,890 --> 00:01:15,810 when Tech Terex bought the brand name, that Justin's son has 22 00:01:15,810 --> 00:01:17,770 owned it, but that was not publicly known. 23 00:01:18,170 --> 00:01:20,890 In the interim, since we did that last episode, a couple of 24 00:01:20,890 --> 00:01:24,250 things have been revealed. One of those things, as you 25 00:01:24,250 --> 00:01:27,210 mentioned is that former Trust token CEO. 26 00:01:27,610 --> 00:01:32,850 Daniel Jiang on is suing Arch Block, formerly Trust Token, and 27 00:01:32,850 --> 00:01:37,890 in the course of that lawsuit includes some conversations, 28 00:01:37,890 --> 00:01:44,010 negotiations and information about a period in 2020 when the 29 00:01:44,170 --> 00:01:50,810 Tron Foundation was trying to purchase True USD in a in a deal 30 00:01:50,810 --> 00:01:55,810 that was being negotiated by Can Son, a lawyer, and Justin Son in 31 00:01:55,810 --> 00:01:58,770 the Tron Foundation. To purchase true USD. 32 00:01:58,970 --> 00:02:01,970 So that came out. The other piece of information 33 00:02:01,970 --> 00:02:05,410 just before we really get into this conversation is Adam 34 00:02:05,410 --> 00:02:11,490 Cochran, a venture capitalist did some digging into True USD 35 00:02:11,810 --> 00:02:17,890 and identified a bunch of other links that show up like it seems 36 00:02:17,890 --> 00:02:21,610 Jennifer Xiang may also be on some of the BitTorrent related 37 00:02:21,610 --> 00:02:24,020 companies. And stuff like that and has all 38 00:02:24,020 --> 00:02:28,580 these other pre-existing connections to Justin Son which 39 00:02:28,580 --> 00:02:31,820 really kind of undercuts their December 2020 statement that 40 00:02:32,020 --> 00:02:34,540 Justin Son has no involvement at all. 41 00:02:34,860 --> 00:02:36,900 So those were like the two pieces of information that have 42 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:38,260 come out. They've taken it from Justin 43 00:02:38,260 --> 00:02:39,380 Son. I just want us to hit the. 44 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:41,060 I want us to hit the brakes here for a second. 45 00:02:41,060 --> 00:02:43,700 I just want us to hit the brakes, throw the car into 46 00:02:43,700 --> 00:02:47,300 reverse, because I think we've we've kind of jumped into a lot 47 00:02:47,300 --> 00:02:48,860 here. I know we've talked about true 48 00:02:48,860 --> 00:02:53,340 USD, we've talked about these stable coins before and I know 49 00:02:53,340 --> 00:02:58,140 that a stable coin, as far as complexity goes, it can be, they 50 00:02:58,140 --> 00:03:03,020 can be very complex and they can be not complex true USD at what 51 00:03:03,020 --> 00:03:06,260 its base value is it, but what it's supposed to be, it's 52 00:03:06,260 --> 00:03:08,380 supposed to be one of these simpler stable coins. 53 00:03:08,380 --> 00:03:11,540 So that isn't what I want to get into us reversing and 54 00:03:11,540 --> 00:03:14,480 discussing. I do want us to talk about True 55 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:17,160 Phi. I want us to talk about Arc, 56 00:03:17,240 --> 00:03:19,360 Arc, Block. I want us to talk about these 57 00:03:19,360 --> 00:03:24,360 entities that have been and Tectary XI want us to talk about 58 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:28,400 these entities that have been popping up doing one or two 59 00:03:28,400 --> 00:03:31,040 things, disappearing, rebranding, renaming. 60 00:03:31,240 --> 00:03:33,560 These are the corporate shenanigans that were used to 61 00:03:33,560 --> 00:03:35,640 because we've been dealing with this with Tether and these other 62 00:03:35,640 --> 00:03:39,200 entities forever. But let's talk about it So true 63 00:03:39,200 --> 00:03:41,580 Phi. What was true? 64 00:03:41,660 --> 00:03:43,820 What was true? What was true Phi? 65 00:03:43,820 --> 00:03:46,580 Or what is true Phi? What was the trust token 66 00:03:46,620 --> 00:03:49,260 ecosystem? What was this lending program? 67 00:03:49,260 --> 00:03:51,900 Et cetera. Yeah, so this is a little 68 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:55,300 complicated, but a US based company called Trust Labs was 69 00:03:55,300 --> 00:03:59,780 started back in like 2017 to start doing tokenized assets, 70 00:03:59,780 --> 00:04:02,740 focusing most of their effort on stablecoins. 71 00:04:02,740 --> 00:04:04,420 So they had a couple of other efforts. 72 00:04:04,740 --> 00:04:09,700 They eventually launched A variety stablecoins True USD, 73 00:04:09,740 --> 00:04:12,060 AUD, GB. A piece of British Pound, Hong 74 00:04:12,060 --> 00:04:15,140 Kong dollar and probably Euro if I didn't say that already. 75 00:04:15,900 --> 00:04:18,220 Then they started launching some other things. 76 00:04:18,220 --> 00:04:21,500 They did a fundraise with their True Token, where Alameda 77 00:04:21,500 --> 00:04:25,380 Research was a lead investor and the True Token was meant to 78 00:04:25,380 --> 00:04:30,140 govern the True Fi lending platform, which was a lending 79 00:04:30,140 --> 00:04:34,580 platform designed for uncollateralized loans of 80 00:04:34,740 --> 00:04:39,060 primarily stable coins to people extended through this platform. 81 00:04:39,540 --> 00:04:41,580 Well, let me to research who again as we mentioned was one of 82 00:04:41,580 --> 00:04:45,820 the lead investors in the True Token was extended millions of 83 00:04:45,820 --> 00:04:50,020 dollars of uncollateralized loans through this platform from 84 00:04:50,140 --> 00:04:53,500 an entity called Trust Trading, which is a wholly owned 85 00:04:53,500 --> 00:04:58,500 subsidiary of Arch Block, which is what Trust Token rebranded to 86 00:04:58,740 --> 00:05:01,140 after they sold off true USD and all that. 87 00:05:01,560 --> 00:05:03,440 Besides that, there's. Yeah. 88 00:05:03,440 --> 00:05:05,520 And so that's Arch Block. That's True Fi. 89 00:05:05,800 --> 00:05:08,400 Alameda Research, as we mentioned, was a lead investor 90 00:05:08,400 --> 00:05:11,200 in True Token was getting loans from True Fi. 91 00:05:11,400 --> 00:05:14,520 According to Chain, Argos Research was like the largest 92 00:05:14,560 --> 00:05:21,120 mentor and Redeemer of True USD, followed by I think Justin's son 93 00:05:21,120 --> 00:05:26,120 was in second place. And so, yeah, that was broadly 94 00:05:26,120 --> 00:05:28,160 like the set of entities we're looking at here. 95 00:05:28,670 --> 00:05:30,710 We should also probably mention Tecterics, right? 96 00:05:30,910 --> 00:05:34,630 Tecterics, which is nominally an Asian Asiabased conglomerate. 97 00:05:34,830 --> 00:05:37,990 That seems like it's actually incorporated out of the British 98 00:05:37,990 --> 00:05:42,990 Virgin Islands, where they which was used to purchase initially 99 00:05:42,990 --> 00:05:48,070 just kind of the name True USD, and Arch Block was still in 100 00:05:48,070 --> 00:05:49,990 charge of a lot of the administration. 101 00:05:50,350 --> 00:05:53,910 A few months ago, Protos reported that the private keys 102 00:05:53,910 --> 00:05:57,110 and the rest of the stuff that Arch Block had been managing. 103 00:05:57,530 --> 00:06:01,730 Had been transferred over to Techterics and shortly after we 104 00:06:01,730 --> 00:06:05,130 published that True USD came out and announced their 105 00:06:05,130 --> 00:06:08,690 international transition. And so now True USD is kind of 106 00:06:09,090 --> 00:06:12,450 more fully separate from Arch Block which used to be trust 107 00:06:12,450 --> 00:06:16,250 token and seems to be basically wholly and fully controlled by 108 00:06:16,250 --> 00:06:17,690 Justin Son. Yeah, that's right. 109 00:06:17,690 --> 00:06:20,050 We don't have any. Like I don't think there's any 110 00:06:20,050 --> 00:06:22,010 way to fully prove it at this point. 111 00:06:22,370 --> 00:06:29,690 So, you know, allegedly there's the word allegedly tectari X and 112 00:06:29,690 --> 00:06:33,250 true USD, and the rest of this stuff is now completely 113 00:06:33,250 --> 00:06:36,370 controlled by Justin Son, allegedly. 114 00:06:37,490 --> 00:06:39,690 But there's also been some weird shenanigans with that. 115 00:06:39,690 --> 00:06:44,090 I mean in terms of its collateral, in terms of where 116 00:06:44,090 --> 00:06:46,970 its collateral is, I think we got into it with the boys last 117 00:06:46,970 --> 00:06:48,810 time. So we don't necessarily need to 118 00:06:48,810 --> 00:06:51,010 get into the the the depths of that. 119 00:06:51,050 --> 00:06:54,210 So but Sir, sorry to interrupt you, but you bring that up and I 120 00:06:54,210 --> 00:06:56,370 didn't think we had to get into it, but there was a little bit 121 00:06:56,370 --> 00:06:59,370 of a note in Daniel's lawsuit that makes me think we need to 122 00:06:59,370 --> 00:07:01,050 bring it up. Because one of the things we 123 00:07:01,050 --> 00:07:03,890 talked about is how the collateral being held at Flow 124 00:07:03,890 --> 00:07:08,010 Bank is no longer appropriately being held in escrow and instead 125 00:07:08,010 --> 00:07:11,450 being held directly by agents of tecterics or whatever. 126 00:07:11,970 --> 00:07:14,770 What was mentioned in Daniel's lawsuit is that. 127 00:07:15,110 --> 00:07:19,350 Techterics is currently trying to or trust Token Arch Block. 128 00:07:19,350 --> 00:07:22,750 There's currently an attempted restructuring of some of these 129 00:07:22,750 --> 00:07:26,790 entities that'll put them in Switzerland, and Daniel is 130 00:07:26,790 --> 00:07:31,190 opposed to that restructuring, believing it unfairly deprives 131 00:07:31,190 --> 00:07:34,230 him of. Wealth that is supposed to be 132 00:07:34,230 --> 00:07:36,230 his. But so that was kind of the 133 00:07:36,230 --> 00:07:39,230 interesting wrinkle to me is that we saw all this money moved 134 00:07:39,230 --> 00:07:42,270 to Switzerland in this account that was not appropriately 135 00:07:42,270 --> 00:07:45,750 escrowed and then we hear that there is an attempted 136 00:07:45,750 --> 00:07:48,550 restructuring going on in that same jurisdiction. 137 00:07:48,750 --> 00:07:53,270 I I want to point out that this lawsuit was filed pro se and. 138 00:07:54,590 --> 00:07:57,990 It reads like it is, and it reads like it, which isn't. 139 00:07:57,990 --> 00:08:01,390 It's an important point because for anyone who's not aware, that 140 00:08:01,390 --> 00:08:04,800 means that there's no lawyer involved in this, that this guy 141 00:08:04,800 --> 00:08:08,200 is is doing this lawsuit on his own, without the help of a 142 00:08:08,200 --> 00:08:12,560 lawyer. And yeah, that it doesn't stand 143 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:14,640 much of a chance is basically what that means. 144 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:19,200 Because generally, whether you're defending yourself in a 145 00:08:19,200 --> 00:08:22,640 court of law or you are suing someone else in a court of law, 146 00:08:23,160 --> 00:08:25,640 if you're doing it on your own with the help, without the help 147 00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,480 of legal assistance, you're probably not going to get very 148 00:08:29,480 --> 00:08:32,650 far. And so, yeah, we we can presume 149 00:08:32,650 --> 00:08:34,770 as much. Also because this guy claims 150 00:08:34,770 --> 00:08:40,809 that he's owed $96 million and you would be able to get a 151 00:08:40,809 --> 00:08:43,730 lawyer to agree to terms if that, if they actually thought 152 00:08:43,730 --> 00:08:45,930 you had a chance of seeing that $96 million. 153 00:08:46,170 --> 00:08:48,690 It doesn't sound like any lawyer thought he had a chance of 154 00:08:48,690 --> 00:08:52,010 seeing that $96 million and so. And we should also, I just 155 00:08:52,010 --> 00:08:54,570 wanted to add that caveat to the to the lawsuit. 156 00:08:54,770 --> 00:08:58,250 And this is kind of a countersuit because. 157 00:08:58,760 --> 00:09:01,240 Large Black, formerly Trust Token, has had a separate 158 00:09:01,240 --> 00:09:06,160 lawsuit against him for deleting their internal slack when he was 159 00:09:06,160 --> 00:09:10,320 voted out of the CEO position and that's been ongoing for over 160 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:14,760 like 2 years now. That is a lengthy, I guess he's 161 00:09:14,760 --> 00:09:18,200 been pushing for a lot of discovery information and and 162 00:09:18,200 --> 00:09:21,640 vice versa. And yeah, it's been a slow 163 00:09:21,640 --> 00:09:25,040 process. Slow legal wrangling, Yeah, a 164 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:26,950 lot of weird claims and and. Yeah. 165 00:09:26,950 --> 00:09:30,150 So I I think the most important claims we should take out of it 166 00:09:30,150 --> 00:09:34,550 are not some of the ones about behavior of certain executives 167 00:09:34,790 --> 00:09:36,230 that were given without evidence. 168 00:09:36,430 --> 00:09:38,670 The part that seems more plausible to me are the parts 169 00:09:38,670 --> 00:09:41,550 where we can see some of the messages regarding these 170 00:09:41,550 --> 00:09:45,590 negotiations and some of the names mentioned I that. 171 00:09:45,840 --> 00:09:48,680 Has a lot more credence to it and some of the other 172 00:09:48,720 --> 00:09:50,680 allegations contained in it. It doesn't. 173 00:09:50,680 --> 00:09:52,400 It doesn't to me. So there, there. 174 00:09:52,720 --> 00:09:54,960 I believe Bennett is. One of the things he's speaking 175 00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:58,600 about, for instance, is that there is a text message exchange 176 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,040 with Justin Son. It's hard to call it even in 177 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:03,280 exchange, because it's almost all. 178 00:10:03,400 --> 00:10:08,840 One sided Daniel sending messages to Justin Son, which 179 00:10:08,840 --> 00:10:12,870 leads me to believe he was sending these messages knowing 180 00:10:12,870 --> 00:10:14,870 full well that he was going to be screenshotting this 181 00:10:14,870 --> 00:10:17,910 conversation because he was like, OK, I'm going to look good 182 00:10:17,910 --> 00:10:21,670 right here. Whereas he doesn't show us the 183 00:10:21,670 --> 00:10:25,270 entirety of this conversation when it started, what was said, 184 00:10:26,150 --> 00:10:30,190 what the hopes and and aspirations were for this, for 185 00:10:30,190 --> 00:10:34,310 this takeover. All he shows is him saying to 186 00:10:34,310 --> 00:10:35,950 Justin that he thinks it's a bad idea. 187 00:10:36,270 --> 00:10:38,030 Grain of salt. There there is. 188 00:10:38,350 --> 00:10:40,510 One other thing I want to highlight though is. 189 00:10:41,070 --> 00:10:45,230 He does include the name of a lawyer who is supposedly helping 190 00:10:45,230 --> 00:10:49,190 Justin's son negotiate this and point specifically to a lawyer 191 00:10:49,190 --> 00:10:53,710 named Can's son, which we don't know if there's any relation to 192 00:10:53,710 --> 00:10:55,830 Justin there. It's a relatively common name, 193 00:10:55,990 --> 00:10:58,070 so we don't want to jump to too many assumptions. 194 00:10:58,370 --> 00:11:01,690 But this lawyer is interesting because they worked for Fenwick 195 00:11:01,690 --> 00:11:07,490 and West, which is a firm that represented the BitTorrent 196 00:11:07,490 --> 00:11:12,250 Foundation in 2018 or 2019 when the Tran Foundation was 197 00:11:12,250 --> 00:11:16,610 acquiring it. And then Can Son left Fenwick 198 00:11:16,610 --> 00:11:19,810 and West, where they were working with Daniel Friedberg to 199 00:11:19,810 --> 00:11:24,890 go be a General Counsel at FTX underneath Daniel Friedberg. 200 00:11:26,270 --> 00:11:28,870 And so that name was an interesting best career 201 00:11:28,870 --> 00:11:30,430 decision. Can we just say? 202 00:11:31,470 --> 00:11:35,390 I think it is telling in the context of some of the other 203 00:11:35,390 --> 00:11:38,750 Alameda research connections I alluded to before. 204 00:11:39,030 --> 00:11:41,350 Right. Alameda Research was the largest 205 00:11:41,390 --> 00:11:44,390 or was a lead. True token investor was getting 206 00:11:44,390 --> 00:11:48,110 like the largest loans out of anyone on the true platform was 207 00:11:48,110 --> 00:11:52,990 the largest issuer and Redeemer of true USD like that is. 208 00:11:53,520 --> 00:11:57,520 The important context when we're considering this lawyer's 209 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,440 trajectory? Sure, sure, We've gone into 210 00:12:01,440 --> 00:12:05,280 their escapades before. We urge people, I urge anyone to 211 00:12:05,280 --> 00:12:08,000 listen to our episode with Jason Brawl. 212 00:12:08,560 --> 00:12:13,720 We talk about the some of the lawyers that are now getting 213 00:12:13,720 --> 00:12:16,840 mentioned a lot, and we were talking about it years before 214 00:12:16,840 --> 00:12:19,400 all of this nonsense. These guys have been involved in 215 00:12:19,400 --> 00:12:22,640 crypto for a while, I think. I mean for I remember when you 216 00:12:22,640 --> 00:12:26,920 and I were first getting into cryptocurrency, so many people, 217 00:12:27,000 --> 00:12:31,080 so many of the people who were putting a lot of money into it 218 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:35,160 were poker votes, like it was pretty commonplace. 219 00:12:35,160 --> 00:12:38,760 I don't know if there's that same association these days, but 220 00:12:39,130 --> 00:12:41,250 it certainly was a big a big deal before. 221 00:12:41,490 --> 00:12:49,850 I know now that with roll bit getting such a a big platform 222 00:12:49,850 --> 00:12:54,570 from a bunch of individuals on cryptocurrency Twitter that 223 00:12:54,570 --> 00:12:59,610 perhaps we're seeing this kind of poker gaming, illegal 224 00:12:59,610 --> 00:13:03,610 gambling stuff getting popular again and we'll see where that 225 00:13:03,610 --> 00:13:06,010 goes. But for a while there, it seemed 226 00:13:06,010 --> 00:13:07,890 like there was at least a break. Yeah. 227 00:13:07,930 --> 00:13:10,850 So I I think there's a couple of dynamics there and I think 228 00:13:10,850 --> 00:13:12,530 there's a reason it's coming back too. 229 00:13:12,770 --> 00:13:15,490 You'll remember when we had Jason on to talk about, he 230 00:13:15,490 --> 00:13:18,330 talked about like pre Black Friday in the lead up where 231 00:13:18,330 --> 00:13:22,050 there was starting to be more and more pressure on some of 232 00:13:22,050 --> 00:13:25,410 these poker sites. It became harder and harder to 233 00:13:25,410 --> 00:13:27,810 deposit and withdraw money from these sites. 234 00:13:28,050 --> 00:13:30,850 And so the poker players who were still using them got 235 00:13:31,010 --> 00:13:33,170 comfortable. Using more and more 236 00:13:33,250 --> 00:13:36,970 unconventional methods of moving money in order to continue 237 00:13:37,010 --> 00:13:40,930 having this opportunity. Mentioned jewelry exactly like 238 00:13:40,930 --> 00:13:42,610 jewelry, being a very common thing. 239 00:13:42,610 --> 00:13:45,570 Which is like the same way that Backpage was doing it for a 240 00:13:45,570 --> 00:13:49,210 while for some of their stuff. And so what's interesting to me 241 00:13:49,450 --> 00:13:52,770 is that I think this allowed them to be well positioned to 242 00:13:52,770 --> 00:13:56,770 take advantage of crypto early on because they were familiar 243 00:13:56,770 --> 00:13:59,850 with many of these unconventional rails that crypto 244 00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:04,200 companies began to rely on. As crypto companies began to get 245 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,880 banked at signature in Silvergate and everywhere else, 246 00:14:08,200 --> 00:14:12,320 some of that barrier to entry decreased and it became easier 247 00:14:12,320 --> 00:14:16,080 for some of these people to use it, I think as we've seen the 248 00:14:16,120 --> 00:14:19,580 debanking of crypto. It will become like the 249 00:14:19,620 --> 00:14:22,940 proportion of people like that, poker players and stuff like 250 00:14:22,940 --> 00:14:26,900 that will again kind of shift more towards over representation 251 00:14:27,140 --> 00:14:29,660 as some of the barriers to trading crypto go up. 252 00:14:29,820 --> 00:14:32,660 OK yeah, that's an interesting, interesting perspective I hadn't 253 00:14:32,660 --> 00:14:35,380 been thinking about. We obviously had to continue the 254 00:14:35,380 --> 00:14:38,420 continuous line of these lawyers, the legal, the legal 255 00:14:38,580 --> 00:14:42,380 representation for for major cryptocurrency exchanges. 256 00:14:42,700 --> 00:14:47,180 And yeah, and other entities have has for some reason always 257 00:14:47,180 --> 00:14:50,860 skewed toward the same legal representation of the worst 258 00:14:51,260 --> 00:14:54,780 outfits in the poker world back in the day. 259 00:14:54,980 --> 00:14:58,340 So I don't know what that means. I'm just saying that they were 260 00:14:58,340 --> 00:15:02,340 hiring the legal representation for the worst companies in poker 261 00:15:02,340 --> 00:15:05,020 back in the day, whatever, whatever that means. 262 00:15:05,820 --> 00:15:08,900 But anyway, so there's some other stuff though in regard to 263 00:15:08,900 --> 00:15:12,660 Justin's son outside of just this lawsuit. 264 00:15:13,330 --> 00:15:16,090 One of the big things that's been that has been getting a lot 265 00:15:16,090 --> 00:15:21,450 of attention, actually, I not just you and you know, and the 266 00:15:21,450 --> 00:15:26,010 Data Finavation boys. But but other people too have 267 00:15:26,010 --> 00:15:31,130 been focused on this wrapped Bitcoin, which seems to have 268 00:15:31,290 --> 00:15:34,850 vanished into thin air, which is like pretty sure something 269 00:15:34,850 --> 00:15:38,210 Bitcoin can't can't do, right? Like it can't just vanish off 270 00:15:38,210 --> 00:15:39,730 the blockchain. How does that happen? 271 00:15:39,730 --> 00:15:43,520 There was a boating accident. Yeah, So what, we're on the 272 00:15:43,720 --> 00:15:46,920 block. There are a couple versions of 273 00:15:46,920 --> 00:15:51,120 wrapped Bitcoin on Tron. There's one very small one 274 00:15:51,120 --> 00:15:53,600 that's done by like the same people who did wrapped Bitcoin 275 00:15:53,680 --> 00:15:56,960 on Aetherium. Custody is done by Bitco, and 276 00:15:56,960 --> 00:16:00,240 it's very easy to find the addresses for that one, but no 277 00:16:00,240 --> 00:16:02,560 one uses it. The one everyone uses is a 278 00:16:02,560 --> 00:16:05,280 product that was initially offered by Polonia X. 279 00:16:05,630 --> 00:16:09,270 Poloni X, as we've mentioned on here before, seems to have been 280 00:16:09,270 --> 00:16:10,910 acquired by Justin, Son, will say. 281 00:16:10,910 --> 00:16:13,950 Seems to be, since he wants to pretend he didn't do it, that 282 00:16:13,950 --> 00:16:17,150 one you no one can find the backing for. 283 00:16:17,590 --> 00:16:20,790 I've gone looking, I have not been able to find the backing. 284 00:16:21,910 --> 00:16:26,230 Protos asked Poloni X where the backing is and they said you're 285 00:16:26,230 --> 00:16:29,790 not a customer. We can't tell you that, and no 286 00:16:29,790 --> 00:16:31,510 one else seems to be able to find it. 287 00:16:32,120 --> 00:16:37,280 And that is not great because, well, it's thousands and 288 00:16:37,280 --> 00:16:41,160 thousands of Bitcoin, including a significant portion of the 289 00:16:41,160 --> 00:16:45,240 Bitcoin reserves at will be like customer reserves that are 290 00:16:45,240 --> 00:16:49,000 supposed to be allocated for customers are not in regular 291 00:16:49,000 --> 00:16:52,320 Bitcoin like you would expect. They're in this wrapped Bitcoin 292 00:16:52,560 --> 00:16:56,640 that is from Polonia X where no one can find where the tokens 293 00:16:56,640 --> 00:16:59,280 are custody. Besides, will be you see a bunch 294 00:16:59,280 --> 00:17:04,990 of them go to Sunswap. To just lend those protocols. 295 00:17:05,069 --> 00:17:06,589 I know this sorry sorry yeah sorry. 296 00:17:06,670 --> 00:17:09,230 So for anyone who's yeah we'll pause again here. 297 00:17:09,869 --> 00:17:15,589 Justin son is so self obsessed that everything he creates has 298 00:17:15,589 --> 00:17:19,869 to in some way like have his name associated with it. 299 00:17:20,710 --> 00:17:24,270 Obviously just lend is as in Justin Son. 300 00:17:24,270 --> 00:17:28,030 Justin Son lend. Just lend and then there's a 301 00:17:28,230 --> 00:17:30,690 What was it, son? Sun. 302 00:17:30,690 --> 00:17:31,170 Swap. Yeah. 303 00:17:31,530 --> 00:17:33,730 You can swap at Sun's little decks. 304 00:17:34,010 --> 00:17:37,050 And so yeah, there are thousands of Bitcoin that are supposedly 305 00:17:37,050 --> 00:17:39,770 on the Tron network, where no one can find the corresponding 306 00:17:39,770 --> 00:17:43,210 bitcoins on the Bitcoin network. The entity that's supposed to be 307 00:17:43,210 --> 00:17:46,970 custodying them and managing these swaps won't tell anyone 308 00:17:47,250 --> 00:17:50,010 where they're stored. And that same entity, sorry, 309 00:17:50,050 --> 00:17:53,530 that same entity promised back in November that they would 310 00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:55,410 release a Proof of reserves shortly. 311 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:58,680 They have yet to release any kind of like Merkel. 312 00:17:58,680 --> 00:18:02,240 Proof of reserves, OK. And when protests asked them 313 00:18:02,240 --> 00:18:04,160 about, they said they're still working on it. 314 00:18:04,400 --> 00:18:07,400 We asked them why eight months wasn't enough time to finish it, 315 00:18:07,560 --> 00:18:09,040 and they just said we're still working on it. 316 00:18:09,160 --> 00:18:12,440 This brings around a larger point that I'm sure we've 317 00:18:12,440 --> 00:18:16,200 touched on before, but this this is something I've noticed a lot 318 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,600 more lately, which is that when when were these wrapped Bitcoin 319 00:18:20,800 --> 00:18:27,730 originally like created? By 2018 Okay this speaks to, so 320 00:18:28,050 --> 00:18:32,530 I think one of the ongoing. 20, 2020 Okay. 321 00:18:32,530 --> 00:18:35,530 Nonetheless, 3 years. So this speaks to me. 322 00:18:35,530 --> 00:18:40,930 To me, this speaks to there's this consistent narrative that 323 00:18:41,090 --> 00:18:44,250 the blockchain and cryptocurrency provides 324 00:18:44,250 --> 00:18:50,240 transparency because you can, you can go on these scanning, 325 00:18:50,640 --> 00:18:53,080 you can use scanning tools, you can use bread crumbs, you can 326 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:57,760 use, you can use all of these things to try to get get 327 00:18:58,040 --> 00:19:01,160 information that you wouldn't be able to otherwise, for instance 328 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:03,640 from the Federal Reserve or or whatever they want to say. 329 00:19:04,640 --> 00:19:08,600 Unfortunately, what you just what you just proved is that 330 00:19:09,060 --> 00:19:11,140 this dude did this thing in 2018. 331 00:19:11,180 --> 00:19:14,940 No one knows where these coins are now, however long they've 332 00:19:14,940 --> 00:19:17,380 been gone. If they ever were wrapped in the 333 00:19:17,380 --> 00:19:23,630 1st place like no one knows, no one knows and that it's there is 334 00:19:23,630 --> 00:19:26,630 no that the what transparency. This is obfuscation. 335 00:19:26,630 --> 00:19:29,990 This is this is creating extra steps that people just don't 336 00:19:29,990 --> 00:19:31,990 fucking care about. Nobody's going to bother 337 00:19:32,190 --> 00:19:34,950 checking to ensure that the rapid quite like nobody fucking 338 00:19:34,950 --> 00:19:37,630 cared. Nobody cared in 2020, like 339 00:19:37,870 --> 00:19:40,990 hardly anyone cares, right? Like now people care because 340 00:19:40,990 --> 00:19:44,430 they're like dude, are there just millions of dollars just 341 00:19:44,430 --> 00:19:47,030 upped and walked away? What What happened? 342 00:19:47,030 --> 00:19:49,630 Right. But like, if Protos hadn't done 343 00:19:49,630 --> 00:19:52,780 this and people hadn't been asking some questions 344 00:19:52,780 --> 00:19:58,020 eventually, who knows, right? And that I just, it just bugs me 345 00:19:58,020 --> 00:20:00,500 because there's this narrative of it being so transparent and 346 00:20:00,500 --> 00:20:02,860 the reality is. Where's the transparency? 347 00:20:02,860 --> 00:20:07,060 This is obfuscation. It's an extra layer to trying to 348 00:20:07,260 --> 00:20:10,660 even if you say, like we proved it, there's no Bitcoin here. 349 00:20:10,980 --> 00:20:13,820 They just go, Oh well, we're auditing it and figuring it out. 350 00:20:13,820 --> 00:20:16,180 We'll get back to you. Like what does that even mean? 351 00:20:16,260 --> 00:20:18,780 Where are they? Just give me an address, put 352 00:20:18,780 --> 00:20:20,780 them in an address, give me the address. 353 00:20:20,940 --> 00:20:24,140 Then we can all say, hey, that address has them, and if someone 354 00:20:24,140 --> 00:20:26,180 moves them, we can go. Why the fuck are you moving? 355 00:20:26,180 --> 00:20:28,460 The ones that are supposed to be in that address, but they don't 356 00:20:28,460 --> 00:20:31,310 want to do that. And I think, Kelly, yeah, yeah, 357 00:20:31,310 --> 00:20:33,110 I think kind of what we're getting at here like through 358 00:20:33,110 --> 00:20:36,390 like the reason this to me is connected to true USD beyond 359 00:20:36,390 --> 00:20:39,390 just the fact that it's Justin is it points towards kind of 360 00:20:39,390 --> 00:20:42,110 this pattern of what you're talking about, claiming 361 00:20:42,110 --> 00:20:45,790 transparency, claiming this openness while doing everything 362 00:20:45,790 --> 00:20:48,310 possible to try to obscure the true intention. 363 00:20:48,590 --> 00:20:51,830 With true USD that's obscuring the nature of the ownership, 364 00:20:51,950 --> 00:20:55,190 where the collateral is stored, how it's stored and what that 365 00:20:55,190 --> 00:20:56,910 means. Even the nature of like we 366 00:20:56,910 --> 00:21:00,110 talked about this when the chain Argos guys run it seemed like at 367 00:21:00,110 --> 00:21:03,070 the stations for true USD restarted once they started 368 00:21:03,070 --> 00:21:07,310 manually sharing the information for this non escrow bank account 369 00:21:07,470 --> 00:21:10,030 with the network firm and so that. 370 00:21:10,500 --> 00:21:13,980 Isn't particularly transparency. That's not using the blockchain 371 00:21:13,980 --> 00:21:16,900 for your best effect. Same with this WBTC. 372 00:21:17,100 --> 00:21:19,940 There are millions of dollars of value being placed in these 373 00:21:19,940 --> 00:21:24,300 protocols and being treated as if it is fully collateralized by 374 00:21:24,300 --> 00:21:27,140 Bitcoin with no other claim against it, without the 375 00:21:27,140 --> 00:21:29,020 evidence. That's true. 376 00:21:29,660 --> 00:21:31,820 And like this is a pattern throughout all of Justin's 377 00:21:31,820 --> 00:21:34,540 things and we've talked about on some of his Tron projects, but 378 00:21:34,540 --> 00:21:36,980 just sticking close to him for now, like. 379 00:21:37,730 --> 00:21:41,050 He there's this other new project they launched recently 380 00:21:41,050 --> 00:21:46,250 called Stake USDT. And stake to USDT is supposedly 381 00:21:46,250 --> 00:21:51,010 controlled by a new entity called the RWA Dow for real 382 00:21:51,010 --> 00:21:53,650 world assets Dow. And the idea is they're going to 383 00:21:53,650 --> 00:21:57,090 take all these stable coins and they're going to invest them in 384 00:21:57,090 --> 00:22:01,210 something in the real world and pay the yield back to token 385 00:22:01,210 --> 00:22:04,410 holders. Unfortunately, there doesn't 386 00:22:04,410 --> 00:22:09,020 seem to actually be a Dow. There was no they claim they did 387 00:22:09,020 --> 00:22:13,380 this in collaboration with just Lendau, but there's no proposal 388 00:22:13,460 --> 00:22:16,700 on just Lendau related to this. No discussion of this in the 389 00:22:16,700 --> 00:22:23,660 Just Lendau governance forums. And 85% of this state USDT goes 390 00:22:23,660 --> 00:22:28,020 to Whoopi, which again is almost certainly Justin's son owned. 391 00:22:28,020 --> 00:22:31,260 But we have to say Justin's son advised because Justin's son, 392 00:22:31,580 --> 00:22:36,110 Justin's son still feels the need to lie about this. 85% of 393 00:22:36,110 --> 00:22:39,750 the total supply of this neutron token that's being invested in 394 00:22:39,750 --> 00:22:43,790 something with no disclosure goes to this exchange and is 395 00:22:43,790 --> 00:22:48,270 included in the Nansen dashboard that who will be published to 396 00:22:48,270 --> 00:22:52,030 try to prove they have all the assets they claim So and and 397 00:22:52,030 --> 00:22:55,990 this yeah this gets me back into so whoa be like I just want to I 398 00:22:55,990 --> 00:22:59,750 want to point out to everyone and I know some people are aware 399 00:22:59,950 --> 00:23:06,410 of how I have my my own personal animosity towards Justin son 400 00:23:07,010 --> 00:23:10,570 that he is my Moby Dick my my white whale if you will. 401 00:23:10,570 --> 00:23:11,930 Right. Watch our Watch your episode 402 00:23:11,930 --> 00:23:17,570 with Josh, Cincinnati and Lawrence for that one, right And 403 00:23:17,650 --> 00:23:22,130 many other episodes as well. When you look at at everything 404 00:23:22,210 --> 00:23:27,210 combined for this, for this gentleman, he's not allowed in 405 00:23:27,210 --> 00:23:29,410 mainland China anymore. I want to make this clear. 406 00:23:29,410 --> 00:23:34,070 Under under his passport, that is his Chinese passport, he is 407 00:23:34,070 --> 00:23:35,590 no longer allowed in the country. 408 00:23:36,550 --> 00:23:41,390 When he does go, you can almost guarantee that he is using a 409 00:23:41,390 --> 00:23:45,590 Saint Kitts and Nevis passport, or his Granada passport, or his 410 00:23:45,590 --> 00:23:49,270 Malta passport, or his whatever passport, his Central African 411 00:23:49,270 --> 00:23:52,310 Republic passport, whichever one he wants to pop out and use, 412 00:23:53,110 --> 00:23:55,790 he's using one of those instead. Why? 413 00:23:55,870 --> 00:24:02,370 Well, obviously because the the CCP wouldn't want him coming 414 00:24:02,370 --> 00:24:04,370 back. Why? 415 00:24:04,450 --> 00:24:06,330 Well, you got to ask them, I don't know. 416 00:24:06,330 --> 00:24:08,570 I don't know why they. What would happen if he did 417 00:24:08,890 --> 00:24:14,530 return under his passport, But he isn't and right, Yes, go 418 00:24:14,530 --> 00:24:18,170 ahead and watch our episode about Xiaodong and Renren bit. 419 00:24:18,810 --> 00:24:22,890 But there there's also the issue of him establishing all these 420 00:24:22,890 --> 00:24:26,370 companies in Hong Kong. Not under his. 421 00:24:26,890 --> 00:24:30,660 Again, not under his Chinese name. 422 00:24:30,820 --> 00:24:34,380 He's only doing it with his Saint Kitts and Nevis passport. 423 00:24:34,580 --> 00:24:41,100 He's using other individuals to including, apparently, his 424 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:45,260 parents, possibly as like individuals who are owning these 425 00:24:45,260 --> 00:24:48,140 companies or representing these companies like Tectari X. 426 00:24:48,380 --> 00:24:53,980 Like the things he's doing to jump through hoops to try to get 427 00:24:53,980 --> 00:24:58,190 through the legal system in ways that he must think are 428 00:24:58,190 --> 00:25:02,590 effective. It just screams red flags on 429 00:25:02,590 --> 00:25:05,670 everything he touches. So whether it's Polonia X will 430 00:25:05,670 --> 00:25:10,110 be USDD, which is just the stupidest fucking stable coin in 431 00:25:10,110 --> 00:25:12,910 history, or there's the other one, what was it? 432 00:25:12,910 --> 00:25:15,710 JUSD or USDJ? Whatever the hell it is, That 433 00:25:15,710 --> 00:25:19,830 one is US actually above, right USDJ, perpetually above a 434 00:25:19,830 --> 00:25:21,390 dollar. I think it's probably trading 435 00:25:21,390 --> 00:25:23,830 for $1.12 right now or something like that. 436 00:25:23,830 --> 00:25:25,150 It doesn't. It doesn't matter. 437 00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:29,520 None of this matter. True USD, true USD now. 438 00:25:30,160 --> 00:25:32,680 All of it. And this is this has been my one 439 00:25:32,680 --> 00:25:38,160 of my issues for a long time, is that for for probably 2-3 four 440 00:25:38,160 --> 00:25:42,120 years now people have been saying Justin is rich, Justin is 441 00:25:42,120 --> 00:25:44,720 so rich. This was then. 442 00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:47,360 This is so similar to the SBF narrative to me because when 443 00:25:47,360 --> 00:25:51,500 they go, he's so rich. I go, OK, where though with 444 00:25:51,500 --> 00:25:53,500 what? With what assets, what real 445 00:25:53,500 --> 00:25:57,460 world assets does this guy have that suggest he actually has 446 00:25:57,460 --> 00:25:59,180 money? And when you look at the shit 447 00:25:59,180 --> 00:26:01,740 he's doing with his crypto currencies, the stuff he's 448 00:26:01,740 --> 00:26:05,500 hiding, the stuff he's stealing, the lawsuits he's involved in, 449 00:26:05,740 --> 00:26:08,780 like the the Woby people are suing him because he has 450 00:26:08,780 --> 00:26:11,220 continued to use the Woby name. When he said he wasn't going to 451 00:26:11,420 --> 00:26:15,780 Like all of these things combined to show an individual, 452 00:26:15,780 --> 00:26:19,380 I wouldn't. I wouldn't trust for any amount 453 00:26:19,380 --> 00:26:22,360 of money, any amount of money. I wouldn't hand this guy a 454 00:26:22,360 --> 00:26:23,960 nickel. I don't know what this guy would 455 00:26:23,960 --> 00:26:26,960 do with it. Like this guy screams bad news 456 00:26:27,160 --> 00:26:30,520 and you just you're just naming more things to me where I'm 457 00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:32,280 like, uh huh. And this is to be expected. 458 00:26:32,280 --> 00:26:34,400 OK. He says he wrapped the Bitcoin, 459 00:26:34,400 --> 00:26:36,960 but he didn't do it. Then he sent all his money to 460 00:26:36,960 --> 00:26:41,120 Wobe and then he then he stole customer funds and then he did. 461 00:26:41,400 --> 00:26:43,480 Sure, none of this is surprising to me. 462 00:26:44,320 --> 00:26:46,310 Yeah. And I think that's kind of what 463 00:26:46,310 --> 00:26:50,270 we're getting at here is these events exist in a pattern of 464 00:26:50,270 --> 00:26:53,030 behavior for Justin Son. And the reason I think it's 465 00:26:53,030 --> 00:26:56,230 important to highlight these specific ones is the same reason 466 00:26:56,230 --> 00:26:59,750 we wanted to have Jonathan and Patrick of Chain, Argo Son is 467 00:26:59,750 --> 00:27:06,750 because this kind of offshore financial system involving many 468 00:27:06,750 --> 00:27:11,070 of these actors, Alameda Research FTX, Justin Son, True 469 00:27:11,070 --> 00:27:13,650 USD. And of course, our friends at 470 00:27:13,650 --> 00:27:18,930 the world's most transparent stablecoin Tether has its uses 471 00:27:18,930 --> 00:27:24,210 from like light Gray but never fully white to like fully dark 472 00:27:24,210 --> 00:27:29,490 black black market stuff. And many of the behaviors in 473 00:27:29,490 --> 00:27:34,370 maneuvering seem like someone who has fewer dollars than 474 00:27:34,370 --> 00:27:38,530 they're supposed to for all the people they owe and think if 475 00:27:38,530 --> 00:27:40,650 they can keep things moving for long enough. 476 00:27:41,120 --> 00:27:46,000 That fact won't come out, and sometimes these entities end up 477 00:27:46,000 --> 00:27:49,000 in that position because bank accounts get seized, bank 478 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:52,320 accounts get frozen, Money they thought they had ends up not 479 00:27:52,320 --> 00:27:55,680 being money they have, and that could be part of this, right? 480 00:27:55,680 --> 00:27:59,920 Like True USD presumably lost some money at Prime Trust, 481 00:27:59,920 --> 00:28:04,120 though apparently it's only 20 K And so yeah, you have kind of 482 00:28:04,120 --> 00:28:06,530 this. Pattern, where sometimes these 483 00:28:06,530 --> 00:28:09,650 entities seem really wealthy because they're behaving really 484 00:28:09,650 --> 00:28:12,730 wealthy, but they're behaving really wealthy to continue the 485 00:28:12,730 --> 00:28:15,850 fiction that they have all that money because they need to have 486 00:28:15,850 --> 00:28:18,210 all that money or they're in much deeper shit. 487 00:28:18,290 --> 00:28:20,770 One of the important parts that I think everyone has already 488 00:28:20,770 --> 00:28:27,880 kind of forgotten about the FTX in Alameda Fiasco was that he 489 00:28:27,880 --> 00:28:31,400 was marking illiquid assets as though he could sell them on the 490 00:28:31,440 --> 00:28:34,960 open market for the value they were trading at on FTX or 491 00:28:34,960 --> 00:28:37,560 whatever that day. Like insanity, You're going to 492 00:28:37,560 --> 00:28:41,120 be taking massive haircuts if you try to sell these positions. 493 00:28:41,530 --> 00:28:45,010 And we don't know what the other investments are for things like 494 00:28:45,010 --> 00:28:47,250 true USD, right? We don't know what these other 495 00:28:47,250 --> 00:28:48,970 investments are. We don't know what these things 496 00:28:48,970 --> 00:28:51,570 are that are actually backing this thing at this point, other 497 00:28:51,570 --> 00:28:55,730 than they're being marked to some imaginary value that says 498 00:28:55,730 --> 00:28:57,930 that they're fully backed and we don't know what it's backed 499 00:28:57,930 --> 00:28:59,770 with. And this is like this is part of 500 00:28:59,770 --> 00:29:01,670 the issue, right? Yeah. 501 00:29:01,750 --> 00:29:04,630 And like even specifically in true USD, we already talked 502 00:29:04,630 --> 00:29:06,990 about how some of the things aren't appropriately held in 503 00:29:06,990 --> 00:29:10,630 escrow, but they won't make any kind of representations about 504 00:29:10,630 --> 00:29:14,470 the quality of securities being held at First Digital in Hong 505 00:29:14,470 --> 00:29:16,750 Kong where they're holding a significant portion of their 506 00:29:16,750 --> 00:29:19,830 assets. And 1st Digital themselves just 507 00:29:19,830 --> 00:29:23,430 launched their own stable coin, which immediately got listed on 508 00:29:23,430 --> 00:29:25,600 Finance like. Immediately. 509 00:29:25,600 --> 00:29:29,240 Like two days after lunch was already listed they said so they 510 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:32,760 so to be fair and just so everyone is aware they they 511 00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:38,000 started the the stablecoin in in partnership with finance and and 512 00:29:38,120 --> 00:29:42,800 and like will be in these in like these and Justin Son and CZ 513 00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,080 like they they they were working together with them for sure from 514 00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:51,030 the very get go and like like there's no that's not that isn't 515 00:29:51,030 --> 00:29:53,790 surprising to me but I do want people to realize that first 516 00:29:53,790 --> 00:29:56,430 digital is a trust based out of Hong Kong. 517 00:29:56,710 --> 00:29:59,670 Do do we really think that they're moving billions of U.S. 518 00:29:59,670 --> 00:30:03,710 dollars into and out of Hong Kong through this, Through this, 519 00:30:03,710 --> 00:30:06,350 Through this trust? Maybe. 520 00:30:06,750 --> 00:30:08,790 I doubt it. It's like we talked about with 521 00:30:08,790 --> 00:30:13,030 Jonathan and Patrick. If they are, it's in a more 522 00:30:13,030 --> 00:30:16,900 convoluted transaction. Right, involving other 523 00:30:16,900 --> 00:30:21,180 counterparties or entities or structures between the US 524 00:30:21,180 --> 00:30:24,780 dollars and the assets that end up at first digital backing true 525 00:30:24,780 --> 00:30:26,740 USD. And that's been kind of the 526 00:30:26,740 --> 00:30:30,620 point of complexity at the heart of these stable coins since we 527 00:30:30,620 --> 00:30:35,900 started covering Tether in 2017. The mechanics they claim don't 528 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:39,230 match up with their behavior. Like the mechanics of them, 529 00:30:39,270 --> 00:30:43,790 collecting a U.S. dollar from someone, storing it in a bank 530 00:30:43,790 --> 00:30:47,350 account and only then issuing the asset and then wiring that 531 00:30:47,350 --> 00:30:50,830 dollar back out only when it's redeemed does not match up with 532 00:30:50,830 --> 00:30:54,670 the behavior of really any of the stable coins, USDC and 533 00:30:54,670 --> 00:30:56,830 Paxos, whatever. Find the US based ones we're not 534 00:30:56,830 --> 00:31:01,560 going to worry about, but like. That has been true since the 535 00:31:01,560 --> 00:31:04,200 beginning. We have heard for years with 536 00:31:04,200 --> 00:31:07,840 varying degrees of accuracy that Tethers transactions actually 537 00:31:07,840 --> 00:31:11,800 involved a much more convoluted set of counterparties that was 538 00:31:11,800 --> 00:31:16,920 meant to kind of aid in capital flight, transform and maybe into 539 00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:19,600 Tethers that can be used there, right? 540 00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,960 And so we need to remember when we're talking about Justin and 541 00:31:22,960 --> 00:31:25,560 all this, that one of the principal use cases for many of 542 00:31:25,560 --> 00:31:29,020 these fake dollars. Is capital flight right? 543 00:31:29,060 --> 00:31:31,140 Is money trying to get out of China? 544 00:31:31,260 --> 00:31:34,500 Yeah, I mean it's been a point that Protos has been 545 00:31:34,500 --> 00:31:40,540 particularly keen to make about FTX, about these entities and 546 00:31:40,540 --> 00:31:42,180 about some other, some other stuff lately. 547 00:31:42,180 --> 00:31:46,780 Like I do think, you know, you don't have to be like whether 548 00:31:46,780 --> 00:31:50,460 you agree, whether you think Chinese capital flight is a good 549 00:31:50,460 --> 00:31:52,300 or bad thing, it doesn't really matter. 550 00:31:52,300 --> 00:31:54,100 It just is a thing that's happening. 551 00:31:54,100 --> 00:31:57,820 And clearly you know someone's mad about it, right? 552 00:31:57,820 --> 00:32:01,980 You're breaking those rules and you're not obeying the laws. 553 00:32:02,220 --> 00:32:03,780 And someone's going to be pissed. 554 00:32:04,020 --> 00:32:06,580 Either it's going to be the US or it's going to be China, or 555 00:32:06,580 --> 00:32:09,180 it's going to be both. Well, and it has been China. 556 00:32:09,180 --> 00:32:11,460 China's busted. A couple of them tether what 557 00:32:11,460 --> 00:32:13,380 they call money laundering rings, which always sits 558 00:32:13,380 --> 00:32:16,250 somewhere between like. Money laundering, gambling 559 00:32:16,250 --> 00:32:19,250 proceeds and capital flight are all kind of described by the 560 00:32:19,250 --> 00:32:22,530 Chinese state apparatus as like broadly the same type of thing, 561 00:32:22,530 --> 00:32:25,290 but they've busted a couple of tether based rings in the last 562 00:32:25,290 --> 00:32:28,490 couple months, so they don't seem happy about that. 563 00:32:28,610 --> 00:32:32,130 No, I mean the Chinese government has made it very 564 00:32:32,130 --> 00:32:34,130 clear how they handle this stuff. 565 00:32:34,250 --> 00:32:37,700 And that is basically shoot first, ask questions later. 566 00:32:38,540 --> 00:32:42,620 They they're not. Jiao Dong was sitting in a jail 567 00:32:42,620 --> 00:32:46,300 cell for a year before he had a trial and the trial lasted for 568 00:32:46,300 --> 00:32:49,140 like 3 days and he was guilty, right. 569 00:32:49,420 --> 00:32:53,580 Like these this, they they don't operate the way we do here. 570 00:32:53,620 --> 00:32:55,620 And I'm not suggesting that's a good thing. 571 00:32:55,620 --> 00:32:58,700 I'm suggesting that's a real thing and that that is what you 572 00:32:58,700 --> 00:33:03,120 have to consider if you're going to be doing business in these 573 00:33:03,120 --> 00:33:05,160 places or with people in these places. 574 00:33:05,160 --> 00:33:10,960 And I think like Justin Son is a prime example of the way, you 575 00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:12,760 know, I don't know what you want to call it illicit, I don't know 576 00:33:12,760 --> 00:33:16,800 how you want to term it. Just funds that are, like 577 00:33:16,800 --> 00:33:18,760 questionable. Questionable in their sourcing, 578 00:33:18,760 --> 00:33:22,160 questionable in how they were acquired, questionable in in 579 00:33:22,160 --> 00:33:25,800 what they're destined to do. Funds the way those funds are. 580 00:33:26,160 --> 00:33:30,640 Is reticent to accept, which is crazy because the banking system 581 00:33:30,640 --> 00:33:33,260 is. Will happily accept most money 582 00:33:34,540 --> 00:33:35,380 you got to be? Really. 583 00:33:35,420 --> 00:33:37,900 Billing you a window to shove your cash through if you need 584 00:33:37,900 --> 00:33:40,780 to. This is exactly right. 585 00:33:41,100 --> 00:33:45,140 So if you can't get HSBC on board, what the hell are you 586 00:33:45,140 --> 00:33:47,540 doing? Yeah, I don't know. 587 00:33:47,580 --> 00:33:49,580 A million questions about Justin Son still. 588 00:33:49,820 --> 00:33:52,820 So I'm glad we're bringing him up again even though I hate 589 00:33:52,820 --> 00:33:56,190 talking about it. And yeah, we'll see what 590 00:33:56,190 --> 00:33:57,790 happens, we'll see what happens with True. 591 00:33:57,790 --> 00:34:00,190 Is there anything else that you wanted to touch on with these 592 00:34:00,430 --> 00:34:03,550 with these platforms, these Justin Sun related platforms and 593 00:34:03,950 --> 00:34:06,710 vehicles? Well, I just want people to know 594 00:34:06,710 --> 00:34:09,909 that I know the Casquin exchange proof of reserves has been 595 00:34:09,909 --> 00:34:12,590 delayed for eight months, but we're still hard at work on it 596 00:34:12,590 --> 00:34:15,630 and we expect to have it out any day now and we guarantee it'll 597 00:34:15,630 --> 00:34:19,040 show you that we have assets. Yeah, we are using a top 100 598 00:34:19,040 --> 00:34:22,600 auditor. So I don't know why anyone could 599 00:34:22,600 --> 00:34:27,199 claim otherwise. And I I look forward honestly, 600 00:34:27,199 --> 00:34:30,360 I'm looking forward to us getting the the audit done 601 00:34:30,480 --> 00:34:33,320 because I'm tired of people fighting my cast coin bags. 602 00:34:34,480 --> 00:34:41,320 Remember guys, that yes, we are under investigation by the DOJ 603 00:34:41,320 --> 00:34:46,550 and the SEC and the CFTC, but under investigation means that 604 00:34:46,550 --> 00:34:48,750 they haven't charged you with anything yet.