1 00:00:05,200 --> 00:00:07,700 Welcome back. Everyone, I'm Caspian Sea and I 2 00:00:07,700 --> 00:00:10,800 am here with my partner in crime, as usual. 3 00:00:10,800 --> 00:00:12,600 Bennett Tomlin, how are you doing? 4 00:00:12,600 --> 00:00:14,900 Well, how are you kiss? I'm doing good. 5 00:00:15,100 --> 00:00:17,700 Thank you. Today, we're going to Broach a 6 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:22,800 pretty intense topic which is the fact that El Salvador is 7 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,800 adopting Bitcoin as legal tender. 8 00:00:26,200 --> 00:00:28,000 I'm not going to delve too deep into that, right? 9 00:00:28,000 --> 00:00:29,800 At the get-go. I'd prefer that. 10 00:00:30,000 --> 00:00:32,700 We look into every aspect of this as we discuss it. 11 00:00:32,700 --> 00:00:38,100 So then at Tomlin, can you tell us a bit about what this means 12 00:00:38,100 --> 00:00:41,400 in general? Whether it means the standard 13 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:44,200 definition of legal tender or if we're talking about something 14 00:00:44,200 --> 00:00:47,500 different, give a broad scope of that if you can. 15 00:00:48,500 --> 00:00:51,600 Yeah, so generally, when countries talk about legal 16 00:00:51,600 --> 00:00:55,700 tender, they're using it to mean that the bill, the bank note, 17 00:00:55,700 --> 00:00:59,100 whatever has to be accepted by the government in terms of 18 00:00:59,100 --> 00:01:01,600 paying your taxes. Other debts to the government. 19 00:01:01,600 --> 00:01:04,500 El Salvador's specific definition of legal tender goes 20 00:01:04,500 --> 00:01:08,200 a little bit further and it is required that all economic 21 00:01:08,200 --> 00:01:11,000 agents, who are able must now, accept Bitcoin. 22 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:15,100 So Merchants business, people stuff like that are now required 23 00:01:15,100 --> 00:01:17,200 to accept Bitcoin if at all possible. 24 00:01:17,800 --> 00:01:21,200 If we reflect on what that means in the US legal tender tends to 25 00:01:21,200 --> 00:01:25,700 mean that you can pay outstanding debts to the federal 26 00:01:25,700 --> 00:01:28,800 government with US Bank notes, Federal Reserve, notes or 27 00:01:28,800 --> 00:01:33,200 coinage. Those rules do not extend to the 28 00:01:33,200 --> 00:01:36,700 state level, and they do not extend to private merchants and 29 00:01:36,700 --> 00:01:39,400 vendors. So this is the Crux of the 30 00:01:39,400 --> 00:01:41,800 issue. I would say for hardcore 31 00:01:41,800 --> 00:01:47,100 bitcoiners who want a toe the line between being pro Bitcoin 32 00:01:47,100 --> 00:01:50,200 and anti statist. Would do you think that's right? 33 00:01:50,300 --> 00:01:54,500 I think this is an important issue in that regard because 34 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,700 often in the Bitcoin ideology and in the narratives, that 35 00:01:58,700 --> 00:02:00,800 surround it. You see this Very much 36 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,200 anti-state and anti coercion philosophy. 37 00:02:04,500 --> 00:02:08,500 And this seems inherently to be coercive by the state. 38 00:02:08,600 --> 00:02:12,200 And so would generally be rejected by bitcoiners, but it 39 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:15,600 also represents like such an important moment in Bitcoins 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:19,000 history from their perspective. It's a country adopting it as 41 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:21,700 legal tender, which is thing that hasn't happened before. 42 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:25,100 And so I think you see a lot of conflict among them because of 43 00:02:25,100 --> 00:02:27,400 that. Dissonance, that's in those two 44 00:02:27,400 --> 00:02:29,900 things. Yeah, and I'm going to go ahead 45 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:33,400 Give a little bit of background on El Salvador. 46 00:02:33,400 --> 00:02:36,100 El Salvador is really small and I think most people in the 47 00:02:36,100 --> 00:02:38,000 world, don't know a lot about El Salvador. 48 00:02:38,000 --> 00:02:43,000 I myself was pretty unaware of a lot of the history of El, 49 00:02:43,000 --> 00:02:46,600 Salvador issues in El Salvador, kind of started at the same time 50 00:02:46,600 --> 00:02:48,800 that they started with other countries in the region. 51 00:02:48,800 --> 00:02:53,500 So Panama Belize, Costa Rica, Guatemala Honduras. 52 00:02:53,500 --> 00:02:56,900 Nicaragua all of them have had issues with the Western world 53 00:02:57,100 --> 00:02:59,700 and they all started to have issues with the Western World 54 00:02:59,700 --> 00:03:03,700 in. The late 1800s, early 1900s Us 55 00:03:03,800 --> 00:03:07,300 and other Western countries started to have a very 56 00:03:07,300 --> 00:03:11,600 influential role. In El, Salvador and elsewhere in 57 00:03:11,600 --> 00:03:15,800 Central America in this time. And since so, specifically with 58 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:20,600 El Salvador, if you look at the Civil War that began in the 59 00:03:20,800 --> 00:03:27,500 1980s and ended in the 1990s, the US definitely supported the 60 00:03:27,800 --> 00:03:33,000 more authoritarian. Into regime and at the same 61 00:03:33,000 --> 00:03:39,700 time, Cuba, and the USSR and other Soviet allies supported, 62 00:03:39,700 --> 00:03:44,800 the leftists in El Salvador, but it caused a crisis there. 63 00:03:45,300 --> 00:03:49,100 It's also on the ring of fire which is a geographic region, 64 00:03:49,100 --> 00:03:52,400 prone to earthquakes and seismic activity. 65 00:03:52,400 --> 00:03:54,500 Including you know volcanic eruptions. 66 00:03:54,600 --> 00:03:59,500 This provides a couple good things, it provides geothermal 67 00:04:00,000 --> 00:04:02,400 Electricity. It's provided them with very 68 00:04:02,400 --> 00:04:06,400 nutrient, rich, soil, and the ability to grow fruits, 69 00:04:06,400 --> 00:04:09,900 vegetables, coffee, a lot of wonderful things simultaneously. 70 00:04:09,900 --> 00:04:15,000 We've had volcanic eruptions and super deadly, earthquakes, 71 00:04:15,000 --> 00:04:18,600 because, as usual, when you look at earthquake deaths, you can 72 00:04:18,600 --> 00:04:20,399 look around the world whether it's in Iran. 73 00:04:20,399 --> 00:04:24,200 China, Indonesia, India, the places that suffer the most 74 00:04:24,200 --> 00:04:28,500 deaths and injuries during an earthquake or places that don't 75 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:31,700 have proper infrastructure. Well, Japan could have a 76 00:04:31,700 --> 00:04:35,100 nine-point whatever earthquake most people would be fine. 77 00:04:35,300 --> 00:04:39,500 But a place like El Salvador when they have like a 6.5, it 78 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:42,600 results in thousands and thousands of deaths because they 79 00:04:42,600 --> 00:04:45,800 are not properly built for that but Bitcoin is supposed to solve 80 00:04:45,800 --> 00:04:48,000 a lot of this or hopefully solve a lot of this. 81 00:04:48,000 --> 00:04:52,900 Can we talk about what that would look like Bennett we can 82 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:58,200 try I think what you're seeing here is that because El Salvador 83 00:04:58,200 --> 00:04:59,800 has a lot of these problems in a lot of these. 84 00:05:00,000 --> 00:05:03,700 Problems are rooted in like American imperialism and like 85 00:05:03,700 --> 00:05:06,000 these influence of these other countries from outside to them. 86 00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:10,700 And due to the fact that El Salvador had to basically dollar 87 00:05:10,700 --> 00:05:13,400 eyes and give up their own currency, the cologne, which has 88 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:17,300 limited their ability to improve their infrastructure and do a 89 00:05:17,300 --> 00:05:19,500 lot of the stuff they would need to start to modernize their 90 00:05:19,500 --> 00:05:22,000 country. There was a lot of incentives in 91 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:26,100 place for them to look to Alternatives and so if they can 92 00:05:26,100 --> 00:05:30,100 adopt something like Bitcoin and because of that increased, The 93 00:05:30,100 --> 00:05:33,800 number of remittances coming in with remittances counting for 94 00:05:33,800 --> 00:05:36,600 twenty percent of their GDP, that helps them build up an 95 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:39,900 aggregate, the amount of money in El Salvador or you see it 96 00:05:39,900 --> 00:05:44,000 potentially as a way to attract new investment, new businesses. 97 00:05:44,000 --> 00:05:47,400 And so I think what they're hoping is that the adoption of 98 00:05:47,407 --> 00:05:49,800 Bitcoin will help bring new money into the country. 99 00:05:50,100 --> 00:05:55,500 Well, I think there's also a bet that Bitcoin will continue to 100 00:05:55,500 --> 00:06:00,200 increase in value and so that by having a holding a Bitcoin After 101 00:06:00,200 --> 00:06:03,300 people have exchanged it through the trust that the country's 102 00:06:03,300 --> 00:06:06,300 reserves could also benefit from increases in the price of 103 00:06:06,300 --> 00:06:09,200 Bitcoin. Francis Coppola spoke about 104 00:06:09,200 --> 00:06:12,400 this. The idea being that it seems 105 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:17,400 risky to bet some of your country's reserves on bitcoin. 106 00:06:17,800 --> 00:06:21,200 But because El Salvador is a dollarized economy without a 107 00:06:21,200 --> 00:06:26,000 mint that can get them dollars or something equivalent to 108 00:06:26,000 --> 00:06:28,900 dollars. They are relying on either 109 00:06:28,900 --> 00:06:32,900 exports being Better than Imports or remittances, giving 110 00:06:32,900 --> 00:06:36,500 them far greater assets coming in than going out. 111 00:06:36,600 --> 00:06:39,400 That that is not what is happening in El Salvador. 112 00:06:40,200 --> 00:06:43,100 And so you look for yield in other places because you're 113 00:06:43,100 --> 00:06:45,800 forced to, it isn't a matter of Desire. 114 00:06:45,800 --> 00:06:50,600 It's not like El Salvador is looking to take more risk on the 115 00:06:50,600 --> 00:06:53,500 little money that it has. I think a lot of bitcoiners and 116 00:06:53,500 --> 00:06:58,500 other people would suggest that the reason they're doing this is 117 00:06:58,500 --> 00:07:00,900 because in a sense They're being forced to. 118 00:07:00,900 --> 00:07:02,600 Do you think there's any truth to that? 119 00:07:03,100 --> 00:07:07,500 I think there is a bit of Truth in that and the current 120 00:07:07,500 --> 00:07:09,300 president of El Salvador buchelli. 121 00:07:09,300 --> 00:07:15,300 He has in large part tried to deal with a lot of the issues El 122 00:07:15,300 --> 00:07:17,700 Salvador's doing by spending pretty rapidly. 123 00:07:18,200 --> 00:07:21,000 However, that has now, put El Salvador in the position where 124 00:07:21,000 --> 00:07:23,800 it's been harder and harder for them to get new money. 125 00:07:23,900 --> 00:07:26,600 Debt to get new debt in their cost of their debt, has 126 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:28,900 continued to go up, which is put them in a difficult financial 127 00:07:28,900 --> 00:07:31,900 position. They were negotiating for a 128 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:34,400 large loan from the international monetary fund. 129 00:07:34,700 --> 00:07:39,800 But the IMF generally, when they give you money, there's lots of 130 00:07:39,800 --> 00:07:43,500 strings attached to. It often involving cuts to 131 00:07:43,500 --> 00:07:46,500 programs austerity and other things that can make it 132 00:07:46,500 --> 00:07:49,400 difficult to sustain your economy. 133 00:07:49,700 --> 00:07:53,700 And so, I think in that difficult position they were in, 134 00:07:53,700 --> 00:07:57,000 you can kind of see why trying to find an alternative outside 135 00:07:57,000 --> 00:07:59,300 of. That system would be appealing. 136 00:07:59,900 --> 00:08:02,400 I know that there's a lot of countries that have had to face 137 00:08:02,400 --> 00:08:06,100 the IMF and the World Bank when it came to, the way they are 138 00:08:06,100 --> 00:08:09,700 Distributing wealth or whatever. I think in most of those cases, 139 00:08:09,700 --> 00:08:15,400 they cave to the demands of the IMF or the World Bank but and, 140 00:08:15,400 --> 00:08:17,800 and again, maybe, maybe, you know better than I do. 141 00:08:17,800 --> 00:08:21,300 I know who would know for sure is, Peter, Peter Ryan, but I 142 00:08:21,300 --> 00:08:27,000 feel like a good example of a country saying, no to the IMF 143 00:08:27,000 --> 00:08:30,300 would be Ireland. Did they say no to I am after, 144 00:08:30,300 --> 00:08:32,700 you know, if that's true. I don't remember that specific 145 00:08:32,700 --> 00:08:35,100 story. There was one story that Peter 146 00:08:35,100 --> 00:08:37,200 shared about in Ireland's history. 147 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:40,900 When a bunch of Bankers went on strike and everyone expected, 148 00:08:40,900 --> 00:08:43,900 the country would shut down and going to like this whole 149 00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:47,200 economic collapse. But instead, the Pub's started, 150 00:08:47,200 --> 00:08:50,700 like, issuing credit to various people and everything like 151 00:08:50,700 --> 00:08:53,900 continue to function on this system by OU's, but I don't 152 00:08:53,900 --> 00:08:57,800 remember specifically about Ireland in 2008. 153 00:08:58,500 --> 00:09:00,800 I guess the only point I'm trying to make here is that when 154 00:09:00,800 --> 00:09:02,900 the IMF and the World Bank turn against you? 155 00:09:03,000 --> 00:09:06,600 It becomes a significant uphill battle, if it wasn't already and 156 00:09:06,600 --> 00:09:10,700 that isn't to disparage, anyone who's trying to put push forward 157 00:09:10,700 --> 00:09:14,200 on this, it's just that it becomes increasingly uphill, 158 00:09:14,200 --> 00:09:16,200 especially in a poverty-stricken country. 159 00:09:16,500 --> 00:09:20,600 I'm growing concerned because I'm seeing the powers that be if 160 00:09:20,600 --> 00:09:24,800 you will turn against a very small country for its decision 161 00:09:24,800 --> 00:09:28,900 to adopt Bitcoin. And while I think Very 162 00:09:28,900 --> 00:09:31,400 legitimate concerns there. I mean we do not know a lot 163 00:09:31,400 --> 00:09:35,100 about naive buchelli, he's clearly done things that are 164 00:09:35,100 --> 00:09:40,100 borderline authoritarian. So I wouldn't put that kind of 165 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:43,100 move past him. Now, you have to ask yourself 166 00:09:43,100 --> 00:09:47,700 when there's a country that's been in such dire need of help. 167 00:09:47,700 --> 00:09:53,700 And so stricken with corruption, if sometimes the hard 168 00:09:53,700 --> 00:09:58,300 authoritative hand of someone is required and I hate to to 169 00:09:58,300 --> 00:10:02,700 suggest that because it's the classic slippery slope argument. 170 00:10:02,700 --> 00:10:06,500 But I guess what I'm suggesting is that it's too early to call 171 00:10:06,500 --> 00:10:10,200 him a dictator. I will not call him that for 172 00:10:10,200 --> 00:10:14,100 right now. I think marching your military 173 00:10:14,100 --> 00:10:17,200 into the legislature to pass your bills and to fire. 174 00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:21,000 The people investigating, you is certainly an extraordinarily bad 175 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:22,800 look. And looks a lot, like, 176 00:10:22,800 --> 00:10:24,900 authoritarianism from where I'm sitting. 177 00:10:25,500 --> 00:10:29,100 I also don't want to go too far because he does seem to be A 178 00:10:29,500 --> 00:10:31,900 democratically elected leader of this country. 179 00:10:32,100 --> 00:10:34,100 He is still extraordinarily powerful. 180 00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:37,400 And like we mentioned previously, there is a bad 181 00:10:37,400 --> 00:10:41,400 history of American and other intervention in El Salvador and 182 00:10:41,400 --> 00:10:44,900 so I don't want to do anything that would suggest that I think 183 00:10:44,900 --> 00:10:47,000 that is necessarily the solution here. 184 00:10:48,700 --> 00:10:52,100 We've touched the surface of a couple issues here. 185 00:10:52,100 --> 00:10:57,500 There's one that we don't know the implications of Bitcoin 186 00:10:57,600 --> 00:11:00,500 being forced upon the populace to. 187 00:11:01,100 --> 00:11:06,600 This is a very volatile region and it is prone to big problems, 188 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:11,000 whether its political or economical three, we don't know. 189 00:11:11,000 --> 00:11:14,300 The intentions of the current leader though, it's okay to hope 190 00:11:14,300 --> 00:11:16,900 they're good but also expect the worst. 191 00:11:16,900 --> 00:11:18,300 I think both of those things are fine. 192 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:22,400 But we haven't touched on another major issue which is 193 00:11:22,700 --> 00:11:28,000 that this all seems to have been at least partially instigated by 194 00:11:28,100 --> 00:11:32,100 strike and Jack mahler's. Can we talk about how this is 195 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:35,300 actually being implemented? Like can we talk about strike 196 00:11:35,300 --> 00:11:39,400 and and lightning and layer to your much more informed than I 197 00:11:39,400 --> 00:11:41,900 am about this stuff? I can try. 198 00:11:42,000 --> 00:11:45,300 It's still a little bit unclear, exactly how this implementation 199 00:11:45,300 --> 00:11:48,400 is going to work the previous implementation. 200 00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:53,500 Of Strike, Global basically involved, someone having cash in 201 00:11:53,500 --> 00:11:58,100 account at strike at one end, it being converted to bitcoin the 202 00:11:58,100 --> 00:12:01,500 Bitcoin, being transferred, and then sold for tethers. 203 00:12:01,600 --> 00:12:04,000 And the person than having to others in their account, that 204 00:12:04,000 --> 00:12:07,000 they can withdraw the newer implementation. 205 00:12:07,000 --> 00:12:09,100 According to mailers, when he was on Peter McCormick's 206 00:12:09,100 --> 00:12:12,300 podcast, is that it will not depend on Tether. 207 00:12:12,300 --> 00:12:15,100 They're integrating directly with both the banks and the cash 208 00:12:15,100 --> 00:12:18,000 point services in El Salvador but there's still some other 209 00:12:18,000 --> 00:12:19,800 questions. What exactly this is going to 210 00:12:19,800 --> 00:12:22,100 look like El. Salvador's said, they're putting 211 00:12:22,100 --> 00:12:25,200 up a hundred fifty million dollars in a trust with the 212 00:12:25,200 --> 00:12:28,700 state bank, so that businesses and Merchants will be able to 213 00:12:28,700 --> 00:12:31,900 instantaneously convert is what they said, but it hasn't been 214 00:12:31,900 --> 00:12:34,700 explained how that's going to work technically, where the 215 00:12:34,700 --> 00:12:38,500 exchange rate for that is going to be derived from or any, or if 216 00:12:38,500 --> 00:12:40,600 it can go the other way. Can someone put dollars into 217 00:12:40,600 --> 00:12:42,700 that count and purchase any Bitcoins that have been 218 00:12:42,700 --> 00:12:44,900 exchanged since the trust? There was also a recent 219 00:12:44,900 --> 00:12:48,400 announcement that they're doing effectively, like an airdrop of 220 00:12:48,500 --> 00:12:52,400 Five dollars in Bitcoin to anyone who signs up and that 221 00:12:52,400 --> 00:12:54,200 totals out to each, El Salvadorian. 222 00:12:54,200 --> 00:12:56,800 Citizen at a little over, a hundred million dollars. 223 00:12:56,800 --> 00:13:00,500 Odds are not, everyone is going to sign up, but it's with the 224 00:13:00,500 --> 00:13:03,100 150 million dollars for a country with El Salvador, with 225 00:13:03,100 --> 00:13:06,700 pretty thin reserves. That's potentially a lot of 226 00:13:06,700 --> 00:13:08,900 money to be putting into a project like this. 227 00:13:09,000 --> 00:13:12,600 The other thing with strike in general is that it is this 228 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:14,800 custodial lightning solution, right? 229 00:13:14,900 --> 00:13:18,400 And so you don't control your private Keys, you don't control 230 00:13:18,500 --> 00:13:22,600 Your lightning node here. You're basically, depending on 231 00:13:22,600 --> 00:13:26,500 strike to provide these services for you strike opens up a couple 232 00:13:26,500 --> 00:13:30,200 of channels to other liquidity providers, so that you can often 233 00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:33,300 find a route to other nodes and other providers but not 234 00:13:33,300 --> 00:13:36,100 necessarily and Strikes nodes themselves. 235 00:13:36,200 --> 00:13:39,700 Are you cannot connect two strikes nodes without permission 236 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:41,700 from strikes. Oh it's so you're somewhat 237 00:13:41,700 --> 00:13:44,000 Limited in what other channels can be added. 238 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:47,600 All of this together leaves us kind of confused at this moment 239 00:13:47,600 --> 00:13:49,300 about how all these different different pieces are going to go 240 00:13:49,300 --> 00:13:52,500 together and that's particularly troubling because they're all 241 00:13:52,500 --> 00:13:55,400 supposed to be totally implemented, like, 60 days from 242 00:13:55,400 --> 00:13:57,300 now. And, when the bill was passed it 243 00:13:57,300 --> 00:14:00,900 at this timeline of 90 days, we're like 15 or 20 days past 244 00:14:00,900 --> 00:14:03,300 that from now. And So within like, two and a 245 00:14:03,300 --> 00:14:06,700 half months, they expect to have this entire system, integrated 246 00:14:06,700 --> 00:14:09,800 across all these Banks into the State Banks and all the cash 247 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:14,000 point services and have training set up with equipment to give 248 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:17,000 out to people, so that they can start accepting Bitcoin and that 249 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:22,200 sounds Narrowly difficult. I also heard another point and I 250 00:14:22,200 --> 00:14:26,000 don't know how much this has been refuted or how well it will 251 00:14:26,000 --> 00:14:30,000 be refuted by the time this comes out but strike by zap, 252 00:14:30,000 --> 00:14:34,400 doesn't have the proper licensing, for all the US states 253 00:14:34,400 --> 00:14:37,700 that it claims it does, I've heard there's there's ways to 254 00:14:37,700 --> 00:14:40,900 get around that. So it's so it might have no, no 255 00:14:40,900 --> 00:14:44,500 ripple effect whatsoever, it's certainly a thing. 256 00:14:44,500 --> 00:14:46,500 I was questioning when I saw that, I think the article is 257 00:14:46,500 --> 00:14:49,200 from decrypt and they got some It's from like some of the 258 00:14:49,200 --> 00:14:52,700 Anderson cruel lawyers on it and basically their take was it 259 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:55,600 looks like strangers and kill but I do like that. 260 00:14:55,600 --> 00:14:59,600 You said Anderson Krill just because Pally is always talking 261 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:04,200 about hearing. Yeah, and so it seemed their 262 00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:07,500 interpretation was it is that strike was likely not in 263 00:15:07,500 --> 00:15:09,800 complete compliance. And that's, especially 264 00:15:09,800 --> 00:15:11,400 difficult. If you're hoping to get a lot of 265 00:15:11,400 --> 00:15:14,500 your remittance dollars coming back from the United States, 266 00:15:14,500 --> 00:15:16,400 right? You don't want the company 267 00:15:16,400 --> 00:15:19,200 providing that service to end up in the A series of us 268 00:15:19,200 --> 00:15:23,700 Regulators, I'm not a lawyer. I don't feel qualified to a pine 269 00:15:23,700 --> 00:15:27,400 and whether or not they're fully compliant, but my impression was 270 00:15:27,400 --> 00:15:30,000 that there may be issues there. Same impression you had. 271 00:15:30,600 --> 00:15:32,800 I don't know if we've come to any kind of conclusion about 272 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:34,300 this. I don't think we have, I think 273 00:15:34,300 --> 00:15:37,600 we're trying to hedge our bets. The aspect that has been most 274 00:15:37,600 --> 00:15:43,600 interesting to me, is that coiners, who I fully expected to 275 00:15:43,600 --> 00:15:48,300 support this move, have largely been against it and individuals, 276 00:15:48,400 --> 00:15:54,800 Owls, like Francis Coppola and others have been not supportive, 277 00:15:54,800 --> 00:15:58,800 but not opposed. And I think that is surprising 278 00:15:58,900 --> 00:16:02,000 for me. And I opening to, because the 279 00:16:02,000 --> 00:16:05,900 reasons that for instance, Francis Coppola gives for 280 00:16:05,900 --> 00:16:09,200 supporting this are not out of like some Pro status 281 00:16:09,200 --> 00:16:11,600 perspective, she's not saying like good. 282 00:16:11,600 --> 00:16:14,200 I'm glad the state is getting involved in Bitcoin, that's not 283 00:16:14,200 --> 00:16:19,300 her argument at all. It's a very monetary Fiscal to 284 00:16:19,300 --> 00:16:23,100 perspective. And also I see people like Niraj 285 00:16:23,300 --> 00:16:28,000 talking about it and saying like this is fucked up and gross, not 286 00:16:28,000 --> 00:16:33,300 that loudly and I find myself agreeing with both of them and I 287 00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:36,300 don't know what to make of it in the end. 288 00:16:36,300 --> 00:16:39,700 I do think this could very well be a good thing for El Salvador. 289 00:16:39,700 --> 00:16:42,500 I actually want to say that I do think this could be good for El 290 00:16:42,500 --> 00:16:45,500 Salvador, on the other hand, it's very scary and I think 291 00:16:45,500 --> 00:16:48,900 there's a lot of reasons to be incredibly worried about Out it 292 00:16:48,900 --> 00:16:51,900 I agree with a lot of that. I think we've seen reasonable 293 00:16:51,900 --> 00:16:56,000 objections from a lot of people across the Bitcoin or ideologies 294 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:59,100 thought Spectrum object to especially the article in the 295 00:16:59,100 --> 00:17:03,600 bill that requires people to accept Bitcoin that specifically 296 00:17:03,600 --> 00:17:07,200 seems to be against basically everyone's philosophy and what 297 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:09,800 should be included in a bill like this, but it's been 298 00:17:09,800 --> 00:17:12,900 included. And so, my biggest fear with 299 00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,700 this is actually a little bit different and it's related to 300 00:17:16,700 --> 00:17:18,300 like the position El Salvador's in. 301 00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:20,400 They don't print their own money. 302 00:17:20,700 --> 00:17:25,000 They so they're unable to print to pay their debts to handle 303 00:17:25,000 --> 00:17:26,400 their spending to do some of that. 304 00:17:27,300 --> 00:17:33,200 And so I am curious if at some point for Kelly or someone like 305 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:36,300 him would not use like a combination of dollars in 306 00:17:36,300 --> 00:17:39,300 Bitcoin, in the reserves to try and start their own fiat 307 00:17:39,300 --> 00:17:42,100 currency again. And that's like, what the 308 00:17:42,200 --> 00:17:45,900 long-term play is as a chance to give El Salvador, their own 309 00:17:45,900 --> 00:17:51,100 Sovereign currency. Again beyond that I hope that 310 00:17:51,400 --> 00:17:55,600 when the money comes into the country to set up the volcano 311 00:17:55,600 --> 00:17:59,300 Bitcoin minds and to provide these various wallets in these 312 00:17:59,300 --> 00:18:02,000 Services. I hope enough of that money ends 313 00:18:02,000 --> 00:18:05,200 up going to build out infrastructure to strengthen the 314 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:08,800 power grid to improve access to the internet and technology, and 315 00:18:08,800 --> 00:18:12,700 to help modernize El Salvadoran. That those ways because I'm 316 00:18:12,700 --> 00:18:15,100 optimistic that those investments in the 317 00:18:15,108 --> 00:18:19,800 infrastructure could benefit, El Salvador, Regardless of how this 318 00:18:19,800 --> 00:18:23,300 experiment turns out. I think there's a lot to like 319 00:18:23,700 --> 00:18:26,000 about this. And there's a lot to dislike 320 00:18:26,100 --> 00:18:28,300 about this, from what I'm hearing. 321 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,300 You have people who support this move in some sense, but really 322 00:18:32,300 --> 00:18:36,000 do not like a lot of the aspects of this bill and I think a lot 323 00:18:36,000 --> 00:18:39,600 of people throughout the world can empathize with that. 324 00:18:39,600 --> 00:18:44,300 So maybe you support building infrastructure in America but 325 00:18:44,300 --> 00:18:48,200 you think climate change isn't real like these these things. 326 00:18:48,400 --> 00:18:53,200 Has become political and weird and it happens very quickly. 327 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:56,600 So we don't know. Intentions and we don't know the 328 00:18:56,600 --> 00:19:00,000 future. So we we have to hope that this 329 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:02,700 is going to be good for, for everyone, in El Salvador. 330 00:19:02,700 --> 00:19:05,800 And I do hope that I think I'll Salvador is gotten the short end 331 00:19:05,800 --> 00:19:09,500 of the stick for a very long time and it has been no help of 332 00:19:09,500 --> 00:19:12,300 the United States where I live and we're not being held 333 00:19:12,300 --> 00:19:15,700 accountable for that. And so if that means that they 334 00:19:15,700 --> 00:19:19,600 have to seek a way to free themselves, Of being dollarized 335 00:19:19,600 --> 00:19:22,800 that's fine. Unfortunately there's no example 336 00:19:22,800 --> 00:19:26,700 of any country that has ever dollarized, D Dollar Rising 337 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,500 successfully. So I hope this is a first and I 338 00:19:30,500 --> 00:19:37,200 hope also that buchelli doesn't do more tactics that feel 339 00:19:37,200 --> 00:19:41,200 authoritarian and then eventually become authoritarian. 340 00:19:41,500 --> 00:19:44,800 I can have my thoughts on it but who cares unless you speak to 341 00:19:44,800 --> 00:19:48,000 the Salvadoran people. The one thing I want to add is 342 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,100 that That well this does seem to be an attempt to D dollar eyes, 343 00:19:51,100 --> 00:19:54,100 that is a prospect that's far out in the future. 344 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,100 They still have a huge amount of their debt currently denominated 345 00:19:57,100 --> 00:20:00,200 in u.s. dollars and they're going to 0 U s-- dollars on that 346 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,200 debt for the foreseeable future. And so I'll Salvador's still 347 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:07,100 going to be dependent on getting US Dollars into their country to 348 00:20:07,100 --> 00:20:12,300 continue paying those but I as well, hope that this plays out 349 00:20:12,300 --> 00:20:16,600 well for El Salvador, and is a useful tool for their population 350 00:20:16,600 --> 00:20:22,700 and for their country as a whole, So complex issue we don't 351 00:20:22,700 --> 00:20:25,900 have the hardest opinion on this as opposed to most other things 352 00:20:25,900 --> 00:20:29,000 that we care about, but we wanted to kind of explain it to 353 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:33,000 everyone in the most critical, but careful way possible. 354 00:20:33,200 --> 00:20:35,200 We're actually going to be releasing two episodes this 355 00:20:35,200 --> 00:20:37,100 week. So this episode is going to be 356 00:20:37,100 --> 00:20:39,900 our first episode and then in a few days we're going to be 357 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:43,200 releasing an episode about regulatory capture, yeah to 358 00:20:43,200 --> 00:20:44,400 episode week enjoy.