1 00:00:05,400 --> 00:00:09,200 Welcome back everyone. I am Caspian Sea and I'm joined 2 00:00:09,200 --> 00:00:11,800 as usual by my partner in crime mr. 3 00:00:11,800 --> 00:00:14,500 Bennett Tomlin Howard you. Today I'm doing well. 4 00:00:14,500 --> 00:00:17,500 How are you kiss? I'm doing pretty good today. 5 00:00:17,700 --> 00:00:22,400 We're here to discuss. Lawsuit against Celsius by a 6 00:00:22,400 --> 00:00:24,600 former Trader who is employed by them. 7 00:00:24,600 --> 00:00:28,500 So this is Chief. I Incorporated versus Celsius 8 00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:33,000 Network. The plaintiff is chi Phi and the 9 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:37,500 defendant is Celsius Network. First of all, I want to start 10 00:00:37,500 --> 00:00:41,100 this out by saying, even from someone who is not a lawyer, the 11 00:00:41,100 --> 00:00:46,300 the lawsuit is so silly that it's both egregious and crazy 12 00:00:46,300 --> 00:00:50,200 and believable, but also insane. So I want to start this out. 13 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,600 Letting everybody know that this this lawsuit itself starts out 14 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:58,300 as a handshake deal between two parties. 15 00:00:58,900 --> 00:01:01,000 Look, I don't know anything about business. 16 00:01:01,500 --> 00:01:03,500 I don't know anything about lawsuits. 17 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:07,900 We aren't lawyers. But as much as I don't know 18 00:01:07,900 --> 00:01:11,100 about law or business. Here's what I'll say you're 19 00:01:11,100 --> 00:01:14,200 doing a billion-dollar deal with a company, don't you a handshake 20 00:01:14,200 --> 00:01:15,800 deal? It's pretty much that simple. 21 00:01:16,300 --> 00:01:20,800 Get it into a contract, a contract for a 10,000 dollar 22 00:01:20,808 --> 00:01:22,900 deal. Why wouldn't you contractual 23 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:25,100 eyes? A billion-dollar deal? 24 00:01:25,500 --> 00:01:28,700 I don't know, and I'm sure that I couldn't tell you the answer 25 00:01:28,700 --> 00:01:31,800 to that. That in regards to this but this 26 00:01:31,800 --> 00:01:35,500 lawsuit is far outside the scope of that so Bennett tillison, 27 00:01:35,500 --> 00:01:38,600 talk to us about like all the Ridiculousness of what this 28 00:01:38,600 --> 00:01:41,900 lawsuit fully presents. Well I'm not going to get into 29 00:01:41,900 --> 00:01:44,800 all of it just in this initial intro but you're right. 30 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,200 This whole thing is just layers of absurdity piled on top of 31 00:01:48,200 --> 00:01:50,400 each other. Like you mentioned, it was a 32 00:01:50,400 --> 00:01:53,200 handshake deal with they were managing hundreds of millions of 33 00:01:53,200 --> 00:01:56,800 dollars of funds which is unfortunately not unheard of in 34 00:01:56,808 --> 00:01:58,700 crypto as we discussed in episode. 35 00:01:58,900 --> 00:02:02,200 Ed's one, two, and three with bitfenix and tether giving about 36 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,000 a little over a billion dollars actually to crypto Capital core 37 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,800 without ever signing a contract of any sort. 38 00:02:08,000 --> 00:02:10,900 So it's certainly not unheard of but it's also definitely not a 39 00:02:10,900 --> 00:02:15,600 best practice and so Jason Stone at zero X underscore be one on 40 00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,300 Twitter started. A cryptocurrency company called 41 00:02:18,300 --> 00:02:21,200 Chi Phi, which was handling, is taking a little bit of some 42 00:02:21,200 --> 00:02:24,900 other stuff like that until machine ski somehow became aware 43 00:02:24,900 --> 00:02:28,000 of them and decided to bring them into the fold to help 44 00:02:28,000 --> 00:02:30,600 manage cells. Is defy activities for them. 45 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:34,400 There's a lot of different details and allegations in the 46 00:02:34,400 --> 00:02:36,800 suit and we'll get into more of them throughout this episode. 47 00:02:37,100 --> 00:02:41,200 But this Arrangement was weird from the start Celsius set up 48 00:02:41,300 --> 00:02:45,100 this at 0, XB 1 address and started transferring hundreds of 49 00:02:45,100 --> 00:02:47,200 millions of dollars of customer funds in. 50 00:02:47,600 --> 00:02:52,000 Then they would have Jason. Basically, use a VPN to remotely 51 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,900 access the computer that the keys were stored on from which 52 00:02:54,900 --> 00:02:58,100 he would then make the transactions, he was supposed to 53 00:02:58,100 --> 00:03:00,400 be paid. Paid a portion of the profits, 54 00:03:00,400 --> 00:03:02,500 he learned in doing these activities. 55 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:06,600 And was also apparently, told by Celsius that he didn't need to 56 00:03:06,600 --> 00:03:09,700 worry about hedging because they were taking care of all of the 57 00:03:09,700 --> 00:03:13,100 hedging on their side. Listen, I'm not a traitor. 58 00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:14,300 There's a lot of things we aren't. 59 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:16,500 We're just going to list all the things we aren't on this episode 60 00:03:16,500 --> 00:03:19,800 and Traders among them. I'm not an expert on hedging 61 00:03:19,800 --> 00:03:23,700 strategies but like, he complains at one point in this 62 00:03:23,700 --> 00:03:26,700 lawsuit that they had not sufficiently hedged for the 63 00:03:26,700 --> 00:03:30,200 potential impermanent loss. He withdrew all of his funds 64 00:03:30,200 --> 00:03:33,100 from the illiquid shit coins that he had been healed farming. 65 00:03:33,700 --> 00:03:36,800 There's a lot of this that is really, really weird like the 66 00:03:36,800 --> 00:03:40,300 fact that he could only use these wallets remotely had to go 67 00:03:40,300 --> 00:03:44,200 into Celsius to do it that he believed they had some team 68 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:47,300 hedging at all. Now I specifically asked you a 69 00:03:47,308 --> 00:03:49,500 question. This is point number if I'm 70 00:03:49,500 --> 00:03:53,800 correct number 39 on this lawsuit, this is the first time 71 00:03:53,800 --> 00:03:55,800 I found myself a little bit confused. 72 00:03:56,300 --> 00:04:00,500 It says at all times. This maintain complete control 73 00:04:00,500 --> 00:04:03,300 over the oxb. One account. 74 00:04:03,300 --> 00:04:05,500 Indeed. For most of the time that stone 75 00:04:05,500 --> 00:04:08,900 worked with Celsius, he could only access the oxb. 76 00:04:08,900 --> 00:04:13,300 One account by using a VPN to log into a computer controlled 77 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:17,000 by Celsius that was already logged into the oxb. 78 00:04:17,000 --> 00:04:19,600 One account. Now, I understand what that 79 00:04:19,600 --> 00:04:23,400 means in terms of remote access that part, I totally understand 80 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:28,500 why is he having to use a VPN to login under remote access just 81 00:04:28,500 --> 00:04:31,600 to make It safe and secure, so that his computer wherever he's 82 00:04:31,600 --> 00:04:35,400 at, which is not close to where this physical computer is at has 83 00:04:35,400 --> 00:04:39,300 a safe Network tunnel to transmit packets from his 84 00:04:39,300 --> 00:04:41,600 location. To Celsius is Network where 85 00:04:41,600 --> 00:04:44,400 they've got more control over the security implementation and 86 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:46,700 stuff. So as far as we know, he's 87 00:04:46,700 --> 00:04:50,000 accessing this, these hundreds of millions of dollars that have 88 00:04:50,000 --> 00:04:54,200 been granted to him by Celsius via a laptop in a coffee shop. 89 00:04:54,200 --> 00:04:56,900 For all we know is that right? Oh yeah, he could theoretically 90 00:04:56,900 --> 00:05:00,600 be using a laptop but I I think that this computer and Celsius 91 00:05:00,600 --> 00:05:03,100 is and is probably as part of their corporate Network who 92 00:05:03,100 --> 00:05:04,400 cares. Yeah. 93 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,700 And that's it feels weird. It's a very strange way to be 94 00:05:07,700 --> 00:05:10,500 handling, hundreds of millions of dollars of customer funds and 95 00:05:10,500 --> 00:05:12,800 like this is the other weird part is like in the lawsuit he 96 00:05:12,800 --> 00:05:15,400 complains that Celsius told him they were using these hedging 97 00:05:15,400 --> 00:05:19,200 strategies and stuff but like if Celsius had a team of like 98 00:05:19,200 --> 00:05:22,000 quants and Traders who are capable of hedging against all 99 00:05:22,000 --> 00:05:25,300 of the impermanent loss in the other things, well he's healed 100 00:05:25,300 --> 00:05:28,600 farming, these shit coin firms, they wouldn't need him. 101 00:05:29,100 --> 00:05:31,400 Like if they had the people who are capable of doing this kind 102 00:05:31,400 --> 00:05:33,800 of advanced hedging strategies, they never would have had to 103 00:05:33,808 --> 00:05:36,000 brought him in. And like even the part like 104 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:38,600 we're talking about this weird private access to the computer 105 00:05:38,900 --> 00:05:44,100 that was true up until Celsius got hacked via DNS attack and 106 00:05:44,100 --> 00:05:46,700 then at that point they just gave him the private keys, they 107 00:05:46,700 --> 00:05:50,000 just shared the keys with Jason. So like that's honestly even 108 00:05:50,000 --> 00:05:54,300 worse to me than like Celsius, making him login and being able 109 00:05:54,300 --> 00:05:55,700 to have some control over the computer. 110 00:05:55,700 --> 00:05:58,700 It's happening again, is they just gave this guy before? 111 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,500 Or there was a signed agreement. As far as I can tell the private 112 00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:04,000 keys to a wallet there, depositing hundreds of millions 113 00:06:04,000 --> 00:06:05,700 of dollars of customer funds into. 114 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,500 That's insane. Okay, so hold on, hold on. 115 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:12,300 Wow Bennett. I'm suddenly realizing how far 116 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:16,200 outside the scope of not just normal Finance, but just just 117 00:06:16,200 --> 00:06:19,700 reality we are right now. And I want to, I want to slow us 118 00:06:19,700 --> 00:06:22,400 down here for a second and point our listeners to a couple 119 00:06:22,400 --> 00:06:27,700 things, one in episode 26, we talked about defy and lending 120 00:06:27,700 --> 00:06:31,100 platforms that Utilizing defy like Celsius. 121 00:06:31,600 --> 00:06:34,700 We also mentioned next own block by block by has been in trouble. 122 00:06:35,000 --> 00:06:37,500 Nexo says, they're not in trouble, but at least two out of 123 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:40,000 three of the companies that we mentioned in that episode have 124 00:06:40,000 --> 00:06:44,500 talked about how they are now in trouble in episode, I believe 125 00:06:44,500 --> 00:06:48,700 79. We talked to Mike, Burgers Berg, 126 00:06:48,800 --> 00:06:52,300 who was one of the people who was talking about how systemic, 127 00:06:52,300 --> 00:06:57,100 and scary Celsius is risks were as a lending platform. 128 00:06:57,400 --> 00:07:01,000 So for anyone that needs Catch up on the deeper tidbits of this 129 00:07:01,000 --> 00:07:02,800 doesn't understand what even Celsius. 130 00:07:02,800 --> 00:07:06,500 Network is urge you to listen to those episodes, they're worth 131 00:07:06,500 --> 00:07:10,000 listening to. Obviously I have a bias there, 132 00:07:10,300 --> 00:07:13,500 but I think we need to quickly just go over. 133 00:07:13,700 --> 00:07:17,700 What Celsius network was promising to customers. 134 00:07:17,800 --> 00:07:23,400 And what this gentleman, Jason Stone and Chi Phi or whatever 135 00:07:23,600 --> 00:07:28,400 was doing what even was this that was happening and why is it 136 00:07:28,800 --> 00:07:31,900 Into all the yields that were being promised during defy 137 00:07:31,900 --> 00:07:36,300 summer. So Celsius promised to pay their 138 00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:39,600 customers a yield if they deposited their cryptocurrencies 139 00:07:39,600 --> 00:07:42,500 in there, right? Nominally as a cryptocurrency 140 00:07:42,500 --> 00:07:45,100 lending platform, this yield was supposed to be generated by 141 00:07:45,100 --> 00:07:46,600 servicing. Other people who wanted to 142 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,400 borrow cryptocurrencies. Right borrowing and lending, 143 00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:50,600 they make two sides of the thing. 144 00:07:50,600 --> 00:07:53,300 Everyone's happy, but that wasn't enough interest in 145 00:07:53,300 --> 00:07:55,700 borrowing, cryptocurrencies, in order to pay the rates that 146 00:07:55,700 --> 00:07:59,300 Celsius wanted to pay to attract more customers and So just I'm 147 00:07:59,308 --> 00:08:01,700 going to read directly from the lawsuit here because it's 148 00:08:01,700 --> 00:08:05,700 stunning in 2020 Stone. Spoke with machine ski and other 149 00:08:05,700 --> 00:08:08,300 managers of Celsius. Numerous times to discuss the 150 00:08:08,308 --> 00:08:11,300 possibility of Celsius. Using Keefe has expertise to 151 00:08:11,300 --> 00:08:14,600 deploy Advanced strategies to make money on its customer 152 00:08:14,600 --> 00:08:19,100 deposits that summer plaintiff and Celsius cut a handshake 153 00:08:19,100 --> 00:08:21,100 deal. Where plaintiff would manage 154 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:25,300 billions of dollars in customer crypto deposits in return for a 155 00:08:25,300 --> 00:08:28,600 share of the profits generated from those crypto deposits. 156 00:08:29,000 --> 00:08:34,400 It continues on point 38 honor around, August 1920, 20 without 157 00:08:34,400 --> 00:08:37,000 a formal agreement. In place Celsius began 158 00:08:37,000 --> 00:08:39,600 transferring hundreds of millions of dollars in crypto 159 00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,299 assets to Stone and his team Celsius, created a new etherium 160 00:08:43,299 --> 00:08:46,400 wallet address referred to as the 0xb one account and 161 00:08:46,400 --> 00:08:49,000 transferred. Nearly all the assets Stone was 162 00:08:49,000 --> 00:08:53,600 to deploy into that address Celsius wanted to pay higher 163 00:08:53,600 --> 00:08:56,400 yields than their lending and borrowing business could 164 00:08:56,400 --> 00:08:58,600 maintain. So they brought on this. 165 00:08:58,700 --> 00:09:02,200 Random guy who had done a little bit in cryptocurrency before to 166 00:09:02,200 --> 00:09:05,900 effectively, take their customer deposits and deposit them into 167 00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:08,100 these yield firms. As you mentioned, summer of 168 00:09:08,100 --> 00:09:12,700 defy, that world doing these wild dilutive token, economics, 169 00:09:13,000 --> 00:09:14,800 where they would print a whole bunch of new tokens. 170 00:09:14,800 --> 00:09:17,200 Give them out the beginning, and if you got in early and sold 171 00:09:17,200 --> 00:09:20,000 quick enough, there was a period where people were making a lot 172 00:09:20,000 --> 00:09:23,900 of money but like fundamentally yield farming, strategies are 173 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:27,300 not a value creation or value accrual mechanism, right? 174 00:09:27,400 --> 00:09:32,800 It's dilution of the Can supply. It's it's it's Ponzi nameks. 175 00:09:32,900 --> 00:09:37,500 There we go. There we fucking go to Ponzi 176 00:09:37,500 --> 00:09:39,600 scheme. Let's not call it ponds and 177 00:09:39,600 --> 00:09:41,700 Amex, please. It's not Panza, not mix. 178 00:09:41,700 --> 00:09:45,700 It's a fucking Ponzi scheme. I'm so tired of this bullshit 179 00:09:45,700 --> 00:09:50,400 dude. And at 0x At 0xb went Jason 180 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:52,700 Stone. The Twitter account was a 181 00:09:52,700 --> 00:09:55,700 massive promoter of what I have publicly called a Ponzi scheme 182 00:09:55,700 --> 00:09:57,100 before. Olympus Dow. 183 00:09:57,500 --> 00:10:00,800 And so yeah, it's hilarious to read this lawsuit, where he 184 00:10:00,800 --> 00:10:04,300 repeatedly, accuses Celsius network of being a Ponzi. 185 00:10:04,600 --> 00:10:08,700 Well, he was actively using customer deposits from Celsius 186 00:10:08,700 --> 00:10:12,700 to invest in ponzi's. It's it's absurd. 187 00:10:13,300 --> 00:10:17,300 It's bad satire it's I made a handshake deal to do. 188 00:10:17,300 --> 00:10:21,500 What sounds Illegal for this? What looks like a criminal 189 00:10:21,500 --> 00:10:23,200 Enterprise and now, they're not paying me. 190 00:10:23,200 --> 00:10:25,800 So I'm going to sue them in New York state. 191 00:10:26,100 --> 00:10:28,900 It's I don't know what it is. Yeah. 192 00:10:28,900 --> 00:10:33,200 And to explain why Bennett feel so frustrated here. 193 00:10:33,200 --> 00:10:36,600 Because I think I want to lay this down in the most laymen 194 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:42,400 above layman terms, is if your party to the idea of a Ponzi 195 00:10:42,400 --> 00:10:46,300 scheme or obvious, fraud scam, something like that and you're 196 00:10:46,300 --> 00:10:50,600 like, man, I made this Deal. And we were making money off 197 00:10:50,600 --> 00:10:53,300 this Broad in this scam and I made this deal with this other 198 00:10:53,300 --> 00:10:55,900 party about the money we were making on this fraud in this 199 00:10:55,900 --> 00:10:58,900 scam and then that other party didn't pay me. 200 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:03,700 I it's kind of like calling the cops to be like hey my drug 201 00:11:03,700 --> 00:11:05,800 dealer. Didn't give me good drugs and 202 00:11:05,800 --> 00:11:08,500 it's like oh do you think this is going to end well for you 203 00:11:08,600 --> 00:11:11,600 like do you think the cops are going to come and be like oh we 204 00:11:11,600 --> 00:11:13,400 totally understand. You got ripped off for those 205 00:11:13,400 --> 00:11:16,500 drugs, you were attempting to illegally by like, no. 206 00:11:16,500 --> 00:11:20,300 Like nobody's gonna have any He or sorrow for you and your 207 00:11:20,300 --> 00:11:23,900 circumstance. Now again, I don't know the 208 00:11:23,900 --> 00:11:26,800 rules and regulations of this civil lawsuit and what's going 209 00:11:26,800 --> 00:11:29,800 to be presented by the end of all this, who knows? 210 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:35,400 But what I do see is basically a guy who's working in and 211 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:37,600 supporting a bunch of Ponzi schemes. 212 00:11:37,700 --> 00:11:41,400 I mean, let's call it what it is and then getting mad. 213 00:11:41,400 --> 00:11:43,800 When the company that's providing him, the funds to 214 00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:47,800 support those Ponzi schemes. Doesn't necessarily pay out the 215 00:11:47,800 --> 00:11:50,300 promise Yield that they suggested. 216 00:11:50,300 --> 00:11:52,700 So, like, scammers getting scammed. 217 00:11:52,900 --> 00:11:55,700 I don't know boo-fucking-hoo, as far as I'm concerned. 218 00:11:55,800 --> 00:11:58,600 But you've done a deeper dive into some of the other 219 00:11:58,600 --> 00:12:01,700 interesting aspects of this. So, so let's talk about some of 220 00:12:01,700 --> 00:12:05,200 these like nft. Let's talk about the nf tease. 221 00:12:05,300 --> 00:12:08,100 This isn't one of the most important details in the lawsuit 222 00:12:08,100 --> 00:12:10,500 but it is one of the most intriguing to me. 223 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:16,000 So right before he told Celsius that he was resigning, there's a 224 00:12:16,008 --> 00:12:20,400 couple of really weird thing. Is that happen first? 225 00:12:20,500 --> 00:12:24,100 He says, in this is like Point ninety in the lawsuit, I think. 226 00:12:25,300 --> 00:12:31,400 Sorry, 89 he says that he had gotten pre-approval to buy a 227 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:35,800 bunch of n FTS as part of his profit-sharing agreement. 228 00:12:36,000 --> 00:12:39,400 And like, if you look on the blockchain on March 6th, which 229 00:12:39,400 --> 00:12:43,500 is three days before he gave notice on March 9th, you see a 230 00:12:43,500 --> 00:12:51,100 ton of NF T's go out of the 0xb one wallet and go go to the 0 x 231 00:12:51,100 --> 00:12:54,500 50 DD wallet and will link a link this on the website and 232 00:12:54,500 --> 00:12:56,500 stuff for people who want to actually see these. 233 00:12:56,800 --> 00:12:59,100 And a lot of benefit he's suddenly go out from this 234 00:12:59,100 --> 00:13:01,100 account. He was controlling to Celsius to 235 00:13:01,100 --> 00:13:03,600 this other one. He controls supposedly as part 236 00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,900 of his profit-sharing agreement, which he claims Celsius isn't 237 00:13:07,900 --> 00:13:10,000 honoring. So I guess those n FTS were 238 00:13:10,000 --> 00:13:11,900 insufficient for his share of the profits. 239 00:13:12,100 --> 00:13:15,000 But right, after this and point ninety one, he makes a really 240 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:18,300 interesting point which is after Stone left Celsius. 241 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:22,900 Fi Celsius maintain access and control of the 0xb one wallet 242 00:13:22,900 --> 00:13:27,100 Celsius, CEO, Alex Mission, ski use that control for his own 243 00:13:27,100 --> 00:13:30,800 personal benefit and one example Celsius is CEO transferred 244 00:13:30,800 --> 00:13:34,000 valuable and FTS from the 0xb one account to his wife's 245 00:13:34,000 --> 00:13:37,700 wallet. I was a cryptically tweeting 246 00:13:37,700 --> 00:13:40,900 about this yesterday before we recorded this because I think I 247 00:13:40,900 --> 00:13:44,500 figured out if this allegation is true, which while it it might 248 00:13:44,500 --> 00:13:48,900 be, you can easily find transactions that go to Known 249 00:13:48,900 --> 00:13:52,000 one of Chrissy's wallets, but none of these NF teas are 250 00:13:52,000 --> 00:13:55,500 particularly valuable. There's one from Badger Dow 251 00:13:55,600 --> 00:13:59,400 where which Celsius lost a bunch of money and there's another 252 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:02,700 Badger and then there's some like, weird crown with a unicorn 253 00:14:02,700 --> 00:14:04,700 on it. None of those are particularly 254 00:14:04,700 --> 00:14:09,300 valuable all of them are flagged as spam on ether, scan and so I 255 00:14:09,308 --> 00:14:13,000 am incredibly dubious that that would be the valuable NF teas 256 00:14:13,000 --> 00:14:17,000 that are being discussed in this, but a few days after Jason 257 00:14:17,000 --> 00:14:20,300 gave his notice the zero. B1 wallet starts acquiring a 258 00:14:20,400 --> 00:14:23,600 bunch of NF teas, and then transferring them to a wallet 259 00:14:23,600 --> 00:14:32,300 that has since never been used and this is the 0 x 3 72, 84 and 260 00:14:32,300 --> 00:14:37,000 it received five people and FTS many of them, much more valuable 261 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:40,500 three that they paid about 200,000 for another one. 262 00:14:40,500 --> 00:14:42,800 They paid like 120,000 for sorry. 263 00:14:42,800 --> 00:14:45,900 For they paid like 200,000 a piece for and when they paid 264 00:14:45,900 --> 00:14:50,200 like 100,000 for to copy. He's of Into The Ether, one of a 265 00:14:50,200 --> 00:14:53,800 bowl with shit all around it. Another one of like an infected 266 00:14:53,800 --> 00:14:56,800 thing and so get you Pikachu, infected Pikachu. 267 00:14:57,100 --> 00:15:00,600 Yes, in fact it Pikachu I want to make sure transcon lovers 268 00:15:00,600 --> 00:15:05,100 hate this shit because yeah, fuck these fuck these people. 269 00:15:05,500 --> 00:15:08,000 This section of the podcast is probably better on our YouTube 270 00:15:08,000 --> 00:15:11,600 channel dinner then on our podcast feeds. 271 00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:15,000 But yeah, so these five people in ft's were transferred from 0 272 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,400 XB 1 to this other wallet that is scents. 273 00:15:17,400 --> 00:15:20,000 Never been used. And so, my guess is, if that 274 00:15:20,000 --> 00:15:23,300 allegation is true, those five people and FTS are the ones that 275 00:15:23,300 --> 00:15:24,800 are being discussed there. Yeah. 276 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:28,100 And I want to just I, I know this is not necessarily like 277 00:15:28,100 --> 00:15:32,800 Finance related or or defy related or or anything in terms 278 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,800 of, to the point of them getting in trouble. 279 00:15:35,800 --> 00:15:39,600 But what I do want to say is that Alex machine ski and his 280 00:15:39,600 --> 00:15:43,900 wife Chrissy Mission ski. I have been very, very, very, 281 00:15:43,900 --> 00:15:49,900 very active on social media in general and And about a month 282 00:15:49,900 --> 00:15:54,900 ago, Alex disappeared. When Celsius finally collapsed 283 00:15:55,000 --> 00:15:59,100 Alex machine ski vanished from twitter.com and now Chris 284 00:15:59,100 --> 00:16:00,900 emissions. She is kind of holding the torch 285 00:16:00,900 --> 00:16:04,400 and saying it's all Fudd, you know, just build, who knows what 286 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:06,400 she does. But cool. 287 00:16:07,500 --> 00:16:13,100 Meanwhile Newt Goldstein the real name of the the chief chief 288 00:16:13,100 --> 00:16:16,100 technology officer or Chief Financial Officer. 289 00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:18,900 I think it's Chief Financial Officer of See it. 290 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:21,700 He is also stop tweeting completely and entirely. 291 00:16:21,700 --> 00:16:26,200 So these people who were very, very active on social media, 292 00:16:26,300 --> 00:16:29,600 completely disappeared. And now I understand if you're 293 00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,800 in media, I understand if you, for instance, run a podcast or 294 00:16:34,000 --> 00:16:37,300 have a YouTube channel, why you need to maintain a very active 295 00:16:37,300 --> 00:16:41,000 presence on social media? I understand why someone like 296 00:16:41,000 --> 00:16:45,700 rowing, like Brian Cohen. The CEO of chewy and GameStop 297 00:16:45,700 --> 00:16:48,300 and a host of other companies why he's acting. 298 00:16:48,400 --> 00:16:51,300 Active to a degree on Twitter and stuff like that. 299 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,000 He also is vague, right? He's also not implicating 300 00:16:55,000 --> 00:16:58,800 himself in like fraud. He's just saying stupid stupid, 301 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:03,400 funny things, or whatever. Like, I think these people have 302 00:17:03,400 --> 00:17:07,200 become targets. Not just of regulators and law 303 00:17:07,200 --> 00:17:11,599 enforcement and now everyone who they owe money to, but they've 304 00:17:11,599 --> 00:17:15,599 become targets of ridicule on social media because people like 305 00:17:15,599 --> 00:17:20,900 Alex and schinsky and Do Kwan And suzu. 306 00:17:21,000 --> 00:17:24,099 And Kyle Davies are all gone. Now, right? 307 00:17:24,099 --> 00:17:26,800 These are bankrupt, entities, and people. 308 00:17:26,900 --> 00:17:30,400 And these were the same people who were telling everyone have 309 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,000 fun staying poor. These are the same people 310 00:17:33,000 --> 00:17:35,500 saying, unbanked yourself. These are the same people 311 00:17:35,500 --> 00:17:42,300 telling you that this 17 percent yield on us DT or sell token was 312 00:17:42,300 --> 00:17:46,700 absolutely for real. And now they're gone and I think 313 00:17:46,700 --> 00:17:48,800 it just you know what it says To me. 314 00:17:49,100 --> 00:17:51,800 They spoke to a fucking lawyer is what it says to me. 315 00:17:52,000 --> 00:17:54,000 Not much else. Probably lots of them. 316 00:17:54,300 --> 00:17:57,300 Yeah, well and it's funny that you mention the cell token 317 00:17:57,300 --> 00:18:00,900 because that was another fun allegation in this lawsuit that 318 00:18:00,900 --> 00:18:04,300 named names. And I want to point out before 319 00:18:04,300 --> 00:18:06,600 you get started. Here about sell token, we you 320 00:18:06,600 --> 00:18:10,200 and I have repeatedly on Twitter, discussed how cell 321 00:18:10,200 --> 00:18:14,400 token like reflects Celsius Network and people involved with 322 00:18:14,400 --> 00:18:17,900 Celsius or gain getting yield from Celsius or whatever would 323 00:18:18,400 --> 00:18:23,200 To us and say, Celsius token is in no way related to her Celsius 324 00:18:23,200 --> 00:18:25,700 Network, really? Like it's it doesn't even if it 325 00:18:25,700 --> 00:18:28,300 goes to zero wouldn't matter for Celsius Network. 326 00:18:28,600 --> 00:18:32,500 This lawsuit says otherwise so go ahead and now please go into 327 00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:34,300 that. Yeah and so it specifically 328 00:18:34,300 --> 00:18:38,600 alleges and name names. It says that Connor, Nolan head 329 00:18:38,600 --> 00:18:43,200 of coin deployment at Celsius. Told stone that Celsius had used 330 00:18:43,300 --> 00:18:48,000 4,500 Bitcoin with a value of about 90 million dollars to 331 00:18:48,000 --> 00:18:50,000 purchase. Purchase the Celsius token on 332 00:18:50,000 --> 00:18:54,000 the open market between February of 2020 and November of twenty 333 00:18:54,000 --> 00:18:56,600 20 in order to inflate the price. 334 00:18:57,000 --> 00:18:59,100 Yeah, so let's just look at what the price did during that 335 00:18:59,100 --> 00:19:02,200 period. It went from 17 cents all the 336 00:19:02,200 --> 00:19:08,000 way up to, like two dollars. So that's, that's a nice, little 337 00:19:08,700 --> 00:19:11,400 10 bagger. The purpose of this was 338 00:19:11,400 --> 00:19:14,500 supposedly twofold one. Since you got a higher interest 339 00:19:14,500 --> 00:19:17,400 rate, if you took your payment in Celsius token by increasing 340 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,900 the value of the cell, Is token. They limited how much they had 341 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:23,200 to give out to customers. The other part is Chrissy, Alex, 342 00:19:23,200 --> 00:19:26,100 and the rest of the Celsius team, have a lot of Celsius 343 00:19:26,100 --> 00:19:28,900 token and Dirty Bubble. Media, who you mentioned we've 344 00:19:28,900 --> 00:19:32,000 had on before has done some work in trying to document alleged 345 00:19:32,000 --> 00:19:36,100 sales of Celsius, token by Alex and Chrissy and so, by 346 00:19:36,100 --> 00:19:38,800 increasing the value of Celsius token, they were personally 347 00:19:38,800 --> 00:19:41,800 enriching themselves and making it easier for them to exit their 348 00:19:41,800 --> 00:19:45,100 position and profit from this. And like, again, this is a 349 00:19:45,108 --> 00:19:48,000 lawsuit, these are allegations. But that one, if it's true is 350 00:19:48,300 --> 00:19:53,100 just using customer deposits to pump your own token so that you 351 00:19:53,100 --> 00:19:59,600 can exit is bad. It's it's fraud, it's morally 352 00:19:59,600 --> 00:20:02,400 abhorrent. It's proof that our Regulators 353 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:07,500 have been overly inactive. It's a negative mark on anyone 354 00:20:07,500 --> 00:20:11,100 who's been defending Celsius over the last couple of years, 355 00:20:11,900 --> 00:20:17,200 Adam back regardless. They also want to state that I 356 00:20:17,500 --> 00:20:19,900 mentioned to you. That as I was looking through 357 00:20:19,900 --> 00:20:24,700 this lawsuit, it truly sounds to me like there's a lot of 358 00:20:24,700 --> 00:20:28,000 commingling going on between this Chi, Phi, entity and 359 00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,700 Celsius Network, and like there's it's all the same money 360 00:20:31,700 --> 00:20:33,000 guys. It's all the same money, who 361 00:20:33,000 --> 00:20:35,700 cares? I need people to understand that 362 00:20:35,700 --> 00:20:40,100 isn't how business works. That isn't how business works. 363 00:20:40,100 --> 00:20:43,100 You don't just co-mingle funds, I wouldn't just go. 364 00:20:43,300 --> 00:20:48,200 Hey, so about cast coin and crypto critics cornered out. 365 00:20:48,300 --> 00:20:50,100 Ow. I know all the funds are over 366 00:20:50,100 --> 00:20:52,400 there. I just spun up a new entity 367 00:20:52,400 --> 00:20:55,700 called cast, coined a bow. So it's a combination of kind of 368 00:20:55,700 --> 00:20:58,200 both. Maybe we can just combine all 369 00:20:58,200 --> 00:21:00,000 the funds and I can kind of control them. 370 00:21:00,600 --> 00:21:03,200 That isn't how business works. It's not how business Works to 371 00:21:03,200 --> 00:21:05,800 any sister likes it though. Oh, Danny says to loves 372 00:21:05,800 --> 00:21:08,700 everything that's a scam. So to see food they all these, 373 00:21:08,900 --> 00:21:11,100 these guys all love everything that's a scam. 374 00:21:11,100 --> 00:21:14,700 If they long it you should watch the fuck out. 375 00:21:14,800 --> 00:21:19,200 These people are scammers. I like I think What's becoming a 376 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:22,800 parent with all of this is our previous episode, right? 377 00:21:22,800 --> 00:21:28,600 The our contagion episode where it's all of these Bad actors are 378 00:21:28,700 --> 00:21:33,500 trying to scam these other Bad actors and there's a movie 379 00:21:33,900 --> 00:21:38,400 called Dirty Rotten Scoundrels. It's from 1988, it's pretty 380 00:21:38,400 --> 00:21:42,100 silly, pretty stupid and it stars, Steve Martin and Michael 381 00:21:42,100 --> 00:21:45,800 Caine and their to scammers who are trying to out scam. 382 00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:48,600 One another and in the end the one Woman. 383 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:52,900 They're trying to scam ends up scamming both of them and I 384 00:21:52,900 --> 00:21:55,400 can't help. But think of that movie, I can't 385 00:21:55,400 --> 00:21:58,600 help but think of that in this sting and be like, oh, so 386 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:02,400 scammer, one thinks they can scam scammer to scammer. 387 00:22:02,400 --> 00:22:07,700 Two things they can scam scammer 1, 2, & 3 & 1 2, & 3. 388 00:22:07,700 --> 00:22:09,800 Like everyone is scamming everybody. 389 00:22:10,100 --> 00:22:13,600 And at the end, someone is getting a big Big W. 390 00:22:13,700 --> 00:22:18,100 Like I don't know who yet, I suspect s BF + CZ. 391 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:23,000 Aren't doing too shabby right now, but all of this makes me 392 00:22:23,000 --> 00:22:27,000 think that none of these people have the customers intention. 393 00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:31,100 All of web three is spun. Is this Big W for for the people 394 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:35,700 for retail for all of us? Like it's a retail win? 395 00:22:35,700 --> 00:22:36,800 I was, you know what I was doing? 396 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,200 As I was going through FTX officials YouTube the other day 397 00:22:40,500 --> 00:22:43,900 and I was watching their podcast that they do with their head of 398 00:22:43,908 --> 00:22:47,400 trading and she's saying like yeah I think a lot of the 399 00:22:47,400 --> 00:22:51,300 trading that we Do is against retail and you're just like, I 400 00:22:51,300 --> 00:22:53,900 hope that's not true. I hope that retail is not 401 00:22:53,900 --> 00:22:58,500 heavily invested in this FTX. Is you to Burrell amida's fft 402 00:22:58,500 --> 00:23:02,500 xft ex-official. I mean, this was the Alameda, it 403 00:23:02,500 --> 00:23:04,700 was behind research had. Right. 404 00:23:04,700 --> 00:23:05,200 Right. Right. 405 00:23:05,200 --> 00:23:08,700 No, it was Caroline. Carol, wait, because Ryan's 406 00:23:09,000 --> 00:23:11,800 Caroline Ellison. It was Caroline Ellison. 407 00:23:12,000 --> 00:23:15,600 Head of trading it at Alameda research on the FTX official 408 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:18,100 website, actually, ex-official pod. 409 00:23:18,300 --> 00:23:22,200 Gasps talking about defy summer talking about how like yeah I 410 00:23:22,200 --> 00:23:25,200 think a lot of these trades were against it was so like she 411 00:23:25,200 --> 00:23:28,100 starts it off saying like, huh? Like I went into it, thinking 412 00:23:28,100 --> 00:23:31,100 like this is all so stupid, such a dumb scam, like first were 413 00:23:31,100 --> 00:23:34,000 farming comp, then we're farming, whatever, like it all 414 00:23:34,000 --> 00:23:37,500 seemed, so Dominus game and you're like yeah, it is a 415 00:23:37,500 --> 00:23:39,900 fucking scam. Like, I don't know man, the 416 00:23:39,900 --> 00:23:43,200 whole thing has been very off-putting, but I think that 417 00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:46,800 what this lawsuit gives to me and hopefully, I think you're in 418 00:23:46,800 --> 00:23:49,800 the same campus me. Is that we're seeing the full? 419 00:23:49,800 --> 00:23:52,400 This is the full collapse. Like, I don't know how far it 420 00:23:52,400 --> 00:23:53,800 goes. I don't suspect. 421 00:23:53,900 --> 00:23:56,500 I'm not saying Bitcoin 20. I'm not saying etherium 20, 422 00:23:56,500 --> 00:23:59,500 we're not being insane. I'm saying, we're seeing the 423 00:23:59,500 --> 00:24:01,800 scammers. The yield Farmers. 424 00:24:01,900 --> 00:24:06,300 The lenders, the exchanges, everyone's turning against each 425 00:24:06,300 --> 00:24:11,200 other because there is no yield. There's no fucking yield guys, 426 00:24:11,400 --> 00:24:13,900 it's clear to me. This is this is the end game 427 00:24:13,900 --> 00:24:18,100 right here, go to your local government, seek out a core. 428 00:24:18,300 --> 00:24:22,000 Order against somebody in defy. I'm so happy. 429 00:24:22,000 --> 00:24:26,600 This is where it ends is in a government structured court of 430 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,400 law because of course, it does well and he separated from 431 00:24:30,400 --> 00:24:34,600 Celsius in April of 2021 and has been trying to get paid since 432 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,800 and launch this lawsuit after they shut down withdrawals and 433 00:24:37,800 --> 00:24:39,300 stuff. Because he's like oh they're 434 00:24:39,300 --> 00:24:40,800 really not going to be able to pay. 435 00:24:40,800 --> 00:24:43,400 Now better make sure I make my claim public since the 436 00:24:43,400 --> 00:24:46,100 documentation for it is going to be lacking. 437 00:24:46,100 --> 00:24:48,100 When the bankruptcy lawyers get in there. 438 00:24:48,200 --> 00:24:50,700 There's not gonna be a lot of paperwork that proves I was 439 00:24:50,700 --> 00:24:53,800 doing what I say I was doing and so I better get this on a record 440 00:24:53,800 --> 00:24:56,300 somewhere is really what it kind of feels like to me. 441 00:24:56,800 --> 00:24:59,500 And you're right that like cryptocurrency industry is 442 00:24:59,500 --> 00:25:02,600 deeply and she was--. And all of these entities are 443 00:25:02,600 --> 00:25:06,600 tied together in these absurd ways and Via these lending 444 00:25:06,600 --> 00:25:09,100 agreements. Actually, speaking about lending 445 00:25:09,100 --> 00:25:11,700 agreements is another part of this lawsuit, which I think is 446 00:25:11,700 --> 00:25:14,900 going to end up overlooked by a lot of people that I thought was 447 00:25:14,900 --> 00:25:17,900 quite important. So Celsius ended up with a 448 00:25:17,908 --> 00:25:21,400 pretty Massive hole in their books because they were doing 449 00:25:21,400 --> 00:25:25,400 very shoddy accounting. They logged the liabilities that 450 00:25:25,400 --> 00:25:28,700 they were going to 0 customers who wanted to get paid interest 451 00:25:28,700 --> 00:25:32,800 in dollars and then crypto prices went up and they forgot 452 00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:35,500 to mark to Market and they had been giving out a bunch of those 453 00:25:35,500 --> 00:25:38,700 crypto assets to this one guy to send into random yield farms. 454 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:42,300 And so, then when people tried to withdraw Celsius, had to go 455 00:25:42,300 --> 00:25:46,100 back and buy more aetherium and stuff on the Open Market at a 456 00:25:46,100 --> 00:25:48,100 higher price than their customers deposited. 457 00:25:48,200 --> 00:25:52,100 That in order to function during this period to make this work 458 00:25:52,100 --> 00:25:54,900 Celsius started taking loans while they were taking loans 459 00:25:54,900 --> 00:25:58,400 before this to several of these appear to be based on point 460 00:25:58,400 --> 00:26:00,300 eighty in the lawsuit sell token. 461 00:26:00,400 --> 00:26:04,500 Collateralized loans where lenders agreed to give out loans 462 00:26:04,500 --> 00:26:07,300 against Celsius token to Celsius. 463 00:26:07,500 --> 00:26:11,200 So that Celsius could cover a hole in their books caused by 464 00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:16,200 their own flawed accounting. Now, this wasn't the only lonely 465 00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:20,300 ended up taking because the lawsuit So claims that the loan 466 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:24,100 that Celsius ended up getting from tether was negotiated 467 00:26:24,100 --> 00:26:27,100 effectively as like a bailout as together, trying to find a way 468 00:26:27,100 --> 00:26:30,300 to keep Celsius solvent. You may remember tether being 469 00:26:30,300 --> 00:26:35,700 the lead investor in Celsius is series a equity round, which is 470 00:26:35,800 --> 00:26:39,900 very similar to allegations that came out around December 2020. 471 00:26:39,900 --> 00:26:44,300 About Babel Finance in China is that they had started to 472 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:46,700 leverage, their customer deposits in order to make more 473 00:26:46,700 --> 00:26:50,200 money that They ended up in a position where they were over 474 00:26:50,200 --> 00:26:52,600 committed and didn't have the liquidity to handle more 475 00:26:52,600 --> 00:26:56,900 withdrawals and so they were able to negotiate a bailout from 476 00:26:56,900 --> 00:27:01,000 tether under special loan terms that gave them enough time to be 477 00:27:01,000 --> 00:27:04,300 able to get through that. Since then, now, more recent 478 00:27:04,300 --> 00:27:06,900 times Babble has also had to shut off withdrawals. 479 00:27:07,300 --> 00:27:10,900 As has Celsius this other one that got this loan from tether. 480 00:27:11,200 --> 00:27:16,100 And so the behaviors of Babel, allegedly and Celsius allegedly 481 00:27:16,400 --> 00:27:18,100 and the involvement of tether in both. 482 00:27:18,300 --> 00:27:22,800 In allegedly, very similar manners is just endlessly. 483 00:27:22,900 --> 00:27:27,000 Fascinating to me, and really points to kind of the same kind 484 00:27:27,000 --> 00:27:28,300 of thing. You're talking about. 485 00:27:28,300 --> 00:27:32,400 This was deeply interested Celsius is a lending platform 486 00:27:32,400 --> 00:27:36,200 and like lenders were taking their native token to land them 487 00:27:36,200 --> 00:27:37,900 more think. So they could keep functioning 488 00:27:38,300 --> 00:27:43,400 and it's just a lot of critics talk about how market cap and 489 00:27:43,400 --> 00:27:46,900 stuff and a lot of the money values in crypto aren't actually 490 00:27:46,900 --> 00:27:49,600 what they seem The liquidity isn't really there. 491 00:27:49,600 --> 00:27:52,800 In the numbers are artificially inflated and this is an example 492 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:57,000 of how dangerous artificially inflated numbers become when 493 00:27:57,000 --> 00:28:00,500 people don't pause and wonder what if this is artificially 494 00:28:00,500 --> 00:28:02,800 inflated. What if the liquidity leaves? 495 00:28:02,800 --> 00:28:04,300 What if the confidence is shaken? 496 00:28:04,600 --> 00:28:07,500 And so then lenders extend loans against cell token and sell 497 00:28:07,500 --> 00:28:10,100 token starts to collapse. In Celsius starts to collapse 498 00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:13,200 and three arrows, Capital runs out a liquidity because they 499 00:28:13,200 --> 00:28:17,400 decided to make a levered play into a staked ether. 500 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:20,500 Derivative It's absurd, and it's stupid. 501 00:28:20,500 --> 00:28:22,400 And when it starts to go, you're right. 502 00:28:22,400 --> 00:28:27,000 It can kind of just unwind all at once and start to collapse, 503 00:28:27,200 --> 00:28:29,600 hopefully. Hopefully clearing out a lot of 504 00:28:29,608 --> 00:28:32,200 the assholes, huh. There's always more though. 505 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:36,900 It's just such a magnificently stupid point and beautiful 506 00:28:36,900 --> 00:28:39,600 point. I want to say but such a stupid 507 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:44,000 point in that I want people to fully comprehend. 508 00:28:44,000 --> 00:28:47,900 What Bennett is expressing here and we have gone over this 509 00:28:47,900 --> 00:28:49,800 before. For the leverage isn't even 510 00:28:49,800 --> 00:28:52,000 fully expressed when you say like Leverage. 511 00:28:52,000 --> 00:28:55,100 When people talk about leverage, they talk about being able to 512 00:28:55,100 --> 00:29:00,300 get to to 100x leverage on a purchase of a dumb token or 513 00:29:00,300 --> 00:29:02,500 whatever at bit Max right like this. 514 00:29:02,500 --> 00:29:05,000 This is what people talk about when they talk about leverage. 515 00:29:05,000 --> 00:29:07,400 When we talk about leverage, we're not just talking about 516 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,500 leverage, we're talking about the idea that you're both 517 00:29:10,500 --> 00:29:15,300 investing in a company and then like lending them money at the 518 00:29:15,300 --> 00:29:18,000 same time and then getting interest payments back. 519 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,500 But you have equity in the company that you're getting 520 00:29:20,500 --> 00:29:24,400 interest payments back from like, it's all a Confluence of 521 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:28,900 bullshit, and in, and it's gross, it's gross in, this is 522 00:29:28,900 --> 00:29:31,400 always gross. It's very gross and finance. 523 00:29:31,500 --> 00:29:35,100 Because what we have here is a bunch of companies that are 524 00:29:35,100 --> 00:29:37,500 propping each other up repeatedly. 525 00:29:37,700 --> 00:29:42,100 And like you said, the unwind isn't just like a gentle unwind 526 00:29:42,100 --> 00:29:45,900 of like a bunch of gross assets and and that has its own issues 527 00:29:45,900 --> 00:29:51,200 and murkiness and problems. But this is a quick slick fast, 528 00:29:51,300 --> 00:29:55,300 ridiculous unwind where everything depends on everything 529 00:29:55,300 --> 00:29:58,400 else. So as soon as three AC3 sorry 530 00:29:58,500 --> 00:30:03,000 three arrows Capital goes under Celsius is fucked and then 531 00:30:03,000 --> 00:30:06,100 Voyager is fucked and then after he acts is lending billions of 532 00:30:06,100 --> 00:30:09,800 dollars out to everybody. And so CZ is saying all we can 533 00:30:09,800 --> 00:30:12,600 lend out money and and Justin son is now saying he can lend 534 00:30:12,600 --> 00:30:14,000 out billions of dollars to everyone. 535 00:30:14,300 --> 00:30:16,200 Okay. I guess I don't know. 536 00:30:16,500 --> 00:30:19,200 I guess we'll find out I guess. Find out if these people can 537 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,800 actually do it because they're saying it because they probably 538 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:27,400 are going to need to at least take on hundreds of millions of 539 00:30:27,400 --> 00:30:32,400 dollars to sustain the collapsing system, much like the 540 00:30:32,400 --> 00:30:34,600 US government. Did in 08, they're going to try 541 00:30:34,600 --> 00:30:39,300 to do it privately and without taxpayer support and I wish them 542 00:30:39,300 --> 00:30:40,700 luck. Good luck, guys. 543 00:30:40,700 --> 00:30:43,100 JPMorgan in the 1920s. Right, sure. 544 00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:44,300 Well, it's exactly what you're saying. 545 00:30:44,300 --> 00:30:47,200 And then like, even the stable Queens themselves often act as 546 00:30:47,208 --> 00:30:49,300 kind of a tie Type of Leverage, right? 547 00:30:49,300 --> 00:30:53,100 Like to Heather is partially backed by secured loans which 548 00:30:53,100 --> 00:30:56,400 are collateralized by Bitcoin. They extend to other denominated 549 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:59,500 loans so that entities like Celsius and EXO can lend tethers 550 00:30:59,500 --> 00:31:01,900 out so they can be used to purchase more cryptocurrencies. 551 00:31:02,100 --> 00:31:04,700 Tether itself is backed by Bitcoin and then other stable 552 00:31:04,700 --> 00:31:07,900 coins like die are entirely or credit based model where they're 553 00:31:07,900 --> 00:31:10,500 almost entirely used for that kind of Levering up, right? 554 00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:13,100 You deposit your ether so you can get dice, you can buy more 555 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:15,600 ether so you can deposit it and get more died in lever up that 556 00:31:15,600 --> 00:31:18,700 way. And so there's many Places where 557 00:31:18,700 --> 00:31:20,900 that Leverage is embedded and you think with something like 558 00:31:20,900 --> 00:31:24,100 diets public, you've got time to get your collateral in but then 559 00:31:24,200 --> 00:31:27,000 sometimes you don't like we saw with Celsius and we talked about 560 00:31:27,000 --> 00:31:29,100 this a little bit. When Dirty Bubble media was on 561 00:31:29,300 --> 00:31:32,200 like their died position ended up in danger because they're 562 00:31:32,200 --> 00:31:34,400 other loans were being actively liquidated. 563 00:31:34,400 --> 00:31:37,700 And they were having trouble. Getting enough liquidity to buy 564 00:31:37,700 --> 00:31:40,500 enough died to pay down the loan and avoid that position from 565 00:31:40,500 --> 00:31:43,500 getting liquidated. And so even loans that scene 566 00:31:43,600 --> 00:31:47,500 secure seem adequately, collateralized can very quickly 567 00:31:47,500 --> 00:31:50,600 become Inadequately collateralized and unsafe. 568 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,500 Especially if there's other people in the space who were 569 00:31:53,500 --> 00:31:57,200 extending loans against similar assets that have liquidation 570 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,600 points at a similar level one, liquidates and pushes below the 571 00:32:00,600 --> 00:32:03,400 liquidation point of another and you start to see the cascading 572 00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:06,300 liquidations and so fundamentally. 573 00:32:06,400 --> 00:32:11,600 But I hope this massive leverage washout in crypto does is it 574 00:32:11,600 --> 00:32:15,000 eliminates a lot of the actors who have been using that really 575 00:32:15,000 --> 00:32:18,800 irresponsibly and hopefully starts to shift Culture away 576 00:32:18,800 --> 00:32:21,500 from one. That is so predisposed towards 577 00:32:21,500 --> 00:32:25,400 focusing just on trying to eke out every bit of manufactured 578 00:32:25,400 --> 00:32:28,700 money from the retail investors who you're trying to attract on 579 00:32:28,700 --> 00:32:34,700 your podcast right? Like Like, it's a bad world 580 00:32:34,700 --> 00:32:40,000 where FTX brings on the head Trader of FTX CEOs, trading firm 581 00:32:40,300 --> 00:32:42,000 and they go, yeah, we go against retail. 582 00:32:42,000 --> 00:32:44,500 We want to take money from retail and like, every clear, I 583 00:32:44,508 --> 00:32:48,000 don't think she even fully comprehended what she was saying 584 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:49,900 when she said that. Like the guy was just saying 585 00:32:49,900 --> 00:32:53,100 like who's doing this with you guys and she's like I'm not sure 586 00:32:53,100 --> 00:32:56,400 but I think it's like retail and you're just like so you're just 587 00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:59,400 scalping retail you're just fucking scalping retail. 588 00:32:59,400 --> 00:33:01,600 It's what SPF said on odd. Lots right? 589 00:33:01,700 --> 00:33:03,600 We put the money. The Backs everyone else follows 590 00:33:03,600 --> 00:33:05,600 in, in puts their money in the box and then we take out our 591 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:07,900 money and most of their money too, right. 592 00:33:08,500 --> 00:33:11,000 They tell you what they're doing, they're telling you 593 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:12,800 exactly what they want to do to exploit you. 594 00:33:12,800 --> 00:33:15,900 And you can see that these are not honest, actors, these are 595 00:33:15,900 --> 00:33:18,700 not good actor. So that's what the overwhelming 596 00:33:18,700 --> 00:33:21,200 amount of evidence about cryptocurrency actors as shown. 597 00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,300 That's not to say there aren't good actors. 598 00:33:23,300 --> 00:33:25,400 That's not to say that aren't good people in cryptocurrency 599 00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:27,900 just that there's so many of these entities that are so 600 00:33:27,900 --> 00:33:32,000 absolutely mercenary and so absolutely focus on eking out 601 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:34,000 every Possible. That is outside. 602 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:37,000 The scope of cryptocurrency. I want to be clear, this is a 603 00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:39,200 finance issue. This is a finance issue. 604 00:33:39,200 --> 00:33:42,000 This is a finance issue. I repeated over and over again. 605 00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:44,700 So people understand we aren't just strictly focused on this. 606 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:47,600 We are focused on finance. This is not like this is a 607 00:33:47,600 --> 00:33:50,700 Traders, get blown up to, but this is, this is a greed, this 608 00:33:50,700 --> 00:33:54,000 is a greed issue. This is a Never Enough issue. 609 00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,400 This is this is outside. The scope far outside the scope 610 00:33:57,400 --> 00:33:59,700 of cryptocurrency and we understand that. 611 00:33:59,700 --> 00:34:03,500 And we're not going to deny that but arm In point that we've been 612 00:34:03,500 --> 00:34:07,300 focused on for all of this time has been cryptocurrency. 613 00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:10,699 So I think it's like we know that this this exists outside of 614 00:34:10,699 --> 00:34:14,100 cryptocurrency, we know that Banks aren't the best entities 615 00:34:14,100 --> 00:34:16,400 in the world. You know, we know, we know, 616 00:34:16,500 --> 00:34:19,900 Social Security is weird and like, we understand all of that. 617 00:34:19,900 --> 00:34:23,100 We're not denying that. It's about where you can make 618 00:34:23,199 --> 00:34:28,500 dramatic change right now. So I appreciate everybody saying 619 00:34:28,500 --> 00:34:32,000 that there are problems outside the scope of cryptocurrency and 620 00:34:32,000 --> 00:34:35,600 and Contagion in regard to Celsius and these lending 621 00:34:35,600 --> 00:34:38,600 platforms and tether. You're right, we're not denying 622 00:34:38,600 --> 00:34:43,199 that, but yeah, I am so happy to see the FDIC moving against 623 00:34:43,199 --> 00:34:45,600 Voyager or at least investigating them. 624 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:48,000 I don't want to say moving against but investigating 625 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,800 Voyager. We have these bankruptcies, 626 00:34:50,800 --> 00:34:54,699 which is going to entail government looking into these 627 00:34:54,699 --> 00:34:56,900 companies and deciding what the hell is going on. 628 00:34:56,900 --> 00:35:01,100 And whether it's okay, I'm actually more optimistic now 629 00:35:01,200 --> 00:35:03,900 than I was two or three. Years ago with the state of 630 00:35:03,900 --> 00:35:08,800 cryptocurrency. I'm not, I don't know how I 631 00:35:08,800 --> 00:35:11,900 honestly don't know how you couldn't be like seeing these 632 00:35:11,900 --> 00:35:15,600 Bad actors. Not just blow themselves up, but 633 00:35:15,600 --> 00:35:19,000 get blown up by Regulators. Get taken down by Regulators, 634 00:35:19,000 --> 00:35:21,500 get called out, get investigated. 635 00:35:21,600 --> 00:35:25,600 I am far more optimistic now than I have been pretty much 636 00:35:25,600 --> 00:35:29,000 ever covering the space and we've been here for almost five 637 00:35:29,000 --> 00:35:29,600 years now. Right? 638 00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,100 There's four or five years. I mean, sure, we've talked a 639 00:35:32,107 --> 00:35:34,200 little It recently about how we've seen a little bit more law 640 00:35:34,200 --> 00:35:37,500 enforcement regulator action which is a promising development 641 00:35:37,600 --> 00:35:40,100 and like I said earlier in this I hope this kind of wash out 642 00:35:40,100 --> 00:35:43,300 removes some of the Bad actors in some of the worst actors. 643 00:35:43,500 --> 00:35:46,500 And I think this has drawn a spotlight that it'll make it 644 00:35:46,600 --> 00:35:49,500 harder for crypto to get away with some of the things it's 645 00:35:49,500 --> 00:35:52,500 done in the past. But I think also in the broader 646 00:35:52,500 --> 00:35:56,100 context, the US regulatory state is actively being gutted by the 647 00:35:56,100 --> 00:35:59,100 Supreme Court was a good chance that Congress will end up 648 00:35:59,100 --> 00:36:00,900 either. So split that nothing will ever 649 00:36:00,900 --> 00:36:04,100 pass or Republican. Old with an anti regulatory Bent 650 00:36:04,100 --> 00:36:07,700 by the beginning of 2023 and there is still a non zero 651 00:36:07,700 --> 00:36:09,600 percent chance. We end up with someone like 652 00:36:09,600 --> 00:36:14,000 Trump back in the Oval Office in 2025 with an active goal of 653 00:36:14,000 --> 00:36:15,900 dismantling. The regulatory state in putting 654 00:36:15,900 --> 00:36:18,800 in people who won't regulate that is, not to mention that 655 00:36:18,800 --> 00:36:22,000 crypto has done a much better job now than it has at any point 656 00:36:22,000 --> 00:36:26,100 in the past of buying influence and getting into positions where 657 00:36:26,100 --> 00:36:28,800 there are powerful people advocating for cryptocurrency 658 00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:32,100 and effectively owned by the cryptocurrency ecosystem. 659 00:36:32,500 --> 00:36:35,500 And so, yes, right now in the past few months, we've had 660 00:36:35,500 --> 00:36:38,300 several positive developments has started to give me hope 661 00:36:38,300 --> 00:36:40,600 Regulators seeming to become more active, the Department of 662 00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:43,200 Justice bringing down indictments, but the larger Meta 663 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,300 Picture still seems to me to suggest that things are about to 664 00:36:46,300 --> 00:36:48,400 become worse. Not better. 665 00:36:48,500 --> 00:36:51,300 When it comes to us covering cryptocurrency in the scams. 666 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:54,400 Yeah, I tried to end it on a good note and Bennett just 667 00:36:54,400 --> 00:36:56,800 fucking destroyed that. So there you go everybody. 668 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:59,700 Now you understand, then it hates anything. 669 00:36:59,700 --> 00:37:03,500 That is good and optimistic that is the It is, it's not just me. 670 00:37:03,900 --> 00:37:07,100 It is largely been as fault on that note. 671 00:37:07,100 --> 00:37:09,800 I think we're going to call that in episode. 672 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:16,600 And guys, I am deeply down, I fully invested in Celsius and 673 00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:21,000 that was, that was all of crypto critics Corners, reserves, that 674 00:37:21,000 --> 00:37:24,400 was how I was going to pay our producer and deal with 675 00:37:24,400 --> 00:37:28,400 everything. So if y'all can support us by 676 00:37:28,500 --> 00:37:31,800 donating, all of your cell token to the burn address. 677 00:37:32,300 --> 00:37:35,000 Please don't listen to me, hit the like And subscribe button. 678 00:37:35,000 --> 00:37:36,600 It's far easier than anything else. 679 00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:39,900 I'm saying or suggesting. Thanks for listening everyone 680 00:37:39,900 --> 00:37:42,600 and we'll we'll talk to you. I guess soon.