1 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,400 Welcome back everyone. I am Cass P Antsy. 2 00:00:07,400 --> 00:00:09,720 I'm joined as usual by my partner in crime, Mr. Bennett 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:11,160 Tomlin. Both good today. 4 00:00:11,200 --> 00:00:14,000 We have already recorded an episode, so we're dumping in, 5 00:00:14,120 --> 00:00:15,600 Dumping in. It's probably the wrong way to 6 00:00:15,600 --> 00:00:20,080 put it. Can't even stop at the episodes. 7 00:00:20,200 --> 00:00:22,320 We're flying through one of our mouths. 8 00:00:22,320 --> 00:00:24,640 We're vomiting and spewing all over you. 9 00:00:25,370 --> 00:00:28,090 Hey, roll in. Not the way I wanted to start 10 00:00:28,090 --> 00:00:30,450 this episode, but there you go. Welcome back everyone. 11 00:00:30,690 --> 00:00:35,250 We're going to be talking about a subject that I wrote in op-ed 12 00:00:35,410 --> 00:00:41,410 about and Bennett wrote a piece about as well in the newsletter 13 00:00:41,410 --> 00:00:44,930 for Protos, something we both seem to care about that the 14 00:00:44,930 --> 00:00:48,250 reaction to was pretty mixed, which is I expected. 15 00:00:48,250 --> 00:00:50,710 Honestly, I expected more vitriol from my for my 16 00:00:50,710 --> 00:00:52,830 statement, but yeah, it was pretty mixed and some people 17 00:00:52,830 --> 00:00:55,630 liked it, some people hated it. We're both making the argument 18 00:00:55,630 --> 00:01:00,870 that while it is pretty funny in a sense to see SBF struggling 19 00:01:00,870 --> 00:01:04,910 and in pain, I think everybody gets some real value out of that 20 00:01:04,910 --> 00:01:07,950 in terms of their like, yes guy who's hurt so many people. 21 00:01:07,950 --> 00:01:10,470 This is and legitimately right. Like this guy has damaged 22 00:01:11,010 --> 00:01:14,370 thousands of people, probably ruined dozens if not hundreds of 23 00:01:14,370 --> 00:01:18,050 people's lives for a significant if not forever amount of time. 24 00:01:18,090 --> 00:01:20,770 So seeing him in pain, people are enjoying a lot. 25 00:01:20,850 --> 00:01:24,810 But I think that it's a more important point that's being 26 00:01:24,810 --> 00:01:27,770 stated by him. And basically he went to court 27 00:01:27,970 --> 00:01:31,890 and said that he's not getting his medications on time. 28 00:01:31,890 --> 00:01:34,020 He's on as far as we know. I don't know how many 29 00:01:34,020 --> 00:01:36,660 medications he on he's on, but we know for sure that he's on N 30 00:01:36,660 --> 00:01:40,220 Sam and he's on Adderall. Now Adderall I'm sure most 31 00:01:40,220 --> 00:01:43,260 people are familiar with is for treatment of ADHD and some other 32 00:01:43,260 --> 00:01:47,520 mental disorders. N Sam is a pretty serious drug 33 00:01:47,600 --> 00:01:50,360 as far as I can tell, in terms of, like, its effects on you. 34 00:01:50,360 --> 00:01:53,680 And it seems like he's taking a lot of it for both of them, for 35 00:01:53,680 --> 00:01:54,600 both the. I guess. 36 00:01:54,600 --> 00:01:55,440 I don't know. I don't know. 37 00:01:55,440 --> 00:01:57,680 I'm not a doctor. I don't know what a lot is. 38 00:01:57,840 --> 00:02:00,080 Basically, he's not getting his drugs and he's not getting the 39 00:02:00,080 --> 00:02:02,480 vegan meals he wants. He wants vegan meals and he's 40 00:02:02,480 --> 00:02:05,200 not getting those vegan meals because I guess the prison 41 00:02:05,200 --> 00:02:06,600 system is basically like, why should he? 42 00:02:06,600 --> 00:02:09,120 He's not special. But there therein lies the 43 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:11,600 problem, which is, don't you think prisoners should be 44 00:02:11,600 --> 00:02:13,560 getting the medical treatment they need? 45 00:02:13,640 --> 00:02:17,560 And don't you think they should be getting basic food given to 46 00:02:17,560 --> 00:02:21,240 them, even if it's something demanded like vegan food or 47 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:23,160 vegetarian food? Yeah, why don't you get us 48 00:02:23,160 --> 00:02:26,680 started off on? That I think this issue is kind 49 00:02:26,680 --> 00:02:30,000 of multifactorial and multifaceted, and I understand 50 00:02:30,000 --> 00:02:32,160 why a lot of people are having the feelings they're have 51 00:02:32,440 --> 00:02:33,840 having. It's like, first I want to 52 00:02:33,840 --> 00:02:37,560 acknowledge that, like Sam Bankman, Freed's experience with 53 00:02:37,640 --> 00:02:41,480 the justice system has been one very much shaped by his 54 00:02:41,480 --> 00:02:42,650 privilege. Right. 55 00:02:42,810 --> 00:02:45,650 Like he was able to find the people to put up his massive 56 00:02:45,650 --> 00:02:48,290 bond. And even after, like, repeated 57 00:02:48,730 --> 00:02:52,050 bail violations, connecting to the VPN, doing all these other 58 00:02:52,050 --> 00:02:55,770 things, he remained free until he started doing what? 59 00:02:55,890 --> 00:02:58,130 I'm not going to say he's legally witness tampering 60 00:02:58,130 --> 00:03:01,130 because I'm not a prosecutor. But that feels a lot like 61 00:03:01,130 --> 00:03:03,450 witness intimidation. Soon as he started doing that, 62 00:03:03,450 --> 00:03:06,090 now he has to go back to prison. And so, yeah, Sam, in case 63 00:03:06,090 --> 00:03:08,210 anyone is unfamiliar, let's let me stop you right there. 64 00:03:08,210 --> 00:03:10,890 In case anyone's unfamiliar, just just so you're you're you 65 00:03:10,890 --> 00:03:13,850 understand, Sam Bang and Freed released Caroline Ellison's 66 00:03:13,890 --> 00:03:15,970 personal Diaries. Now, Caroline Ellison was the 67 00:03:15,970 --> 00:03:19,170 head of trading over at Alameter Research at the time of the 68 00:03:19,170 --> 00:03:21,890 collapse, and he released these very personal, kind of 69 00:03:21,890 --> 00:03:25,330 sensational Diaries to the New York Times, which is just wild, 70 00:03:25,370 --> 00:03:27,890 as you said. Like you, he had been 71 00:03:27,890 --> 00:03:31,770 reprimanded before for his bail violations and kind of pulled to 72 00:03:32,050 --> 00:03:33,490 He was skating on thin ice already. 73 00:03:33,610 --> 00:03:36,290 And I do get why people are like, well, if you didn't want 74 00:03:36,290 --> 00:03:39,130 to go back to jail and get treated like crap, maybe you 75 00:03:39,130 --> 00:03:40,850 should have thought about that. Understood. 76 00:03:41,140 --> 00:03:42,460 But anyway, sorry, I just wanted to give. 77 00:03:43,980 --> 00:03:47,940 Like, that's absolutely true. Sam Bankman freed, was lucky to 78 00:03:47,940 --> 00:03:50,540 get the bail conditions he did and should not have been 79 00:03:50,540 --> 00:03:54,580 violating them, and repeated violation of bail means he 80 00:03:54,580 --> 00:03:58,900 should be in pretrial detention. And like one of the other things 81 00:03:58,900 --> 00:04:00,820 that's come up is Lauren's tribe. 82 00:04:00,820 --> 00:04:04,100 A constitutional lawyer wrote a motion, wrote a letter to the 83 00:04:04,100 --> 00:04:07,660 court describing Sam Bankman Freed's treatment and like 84 00:04:07,660 --> 00:04:10,530 insisted that if. Sam Bankman Freed were to be 85 00:04:10,530 --> 00:04:13,330 detained where he was time out. Being detained, not having 86 00:04:13,330 --> 00:04:18,010 access to computer would make Prep preparing his defense much 87 00:04:18,010 --> 00:04:19,769 more difficult. And that represented like a 88 00:04:19,769 --> 00:04:23,490 potential constitutional issue, and I think there's a bit of 89 00:04:23,490 --> 00:04:26,730 merit there, but and this gets into like the bigger problem 90 00:04:26,730 --> 00:04:30,530 here, that these problems are so much bigger than Sam Bankman 91 00:04:30,530 --> 00:04:33,860 freed. Right, like not just Sam 92 00:04:33,860 --> 00:04:35,340 Bankman. Freed should be able to get 93 00:04:35,340 --> 00:04:38,740 their medications and, like a diet in accordance with their 94 00:04:38,740 --> 00:04:42,300 moral wishes. Everyone being held in pretrial 95 00:04:42,300 --> 00:04:46,380 detention is presumed innocent until proven guilty. 96 00:04:46,770 --> 00:04:51,610 These are people who deserve to be like to have reasonable 97 00:04:51,610 --> 00:04:54,610 standards while they're being detained, should have access to 98 00:04:54,610 --> 00:04:57,450 things that help them prepare their defenses, should be able 99 00:04:57,450 --> 00:04:58,970 to receive medications they need. 100 00:04:59,170 --> 00:05:02,970 And the United States justice system fails to provide that for 101 00:05:02,970 --> 00:05:08,210 such a vast number of inmates including because he is there 102 00:05:08,210 --> 00:05:10,570 right now. Sam Bankman Freed Yeah. 103 00:05:10,570 --> 00:05:13,450 I mean, I think actually part of this for me calls into attention 104 00:05:13,450 --> 00:05:18,650 how serious the issues are in the Estes and penal systems of 105 00:05:18,730 --> 00:05:20,130 the United States of America, right? 106 00:05:20,130 --> 00:05:24,370 Because here we have possibly one of the most famous white 107 00:05:24,370 --> 00:05:28,530 collar criminals of all time, not just of the past year or two 108 00:05:28,690 --> 00:05:30,170 of all time. He's up there with Elizabeth 109 00:05:30,170 --> 00:05:34,090 Holmes and Bernie Madoff. Like this guy is going to go 110 00:05:34,090 --> 00:05:38,130 down in history as one of the biggest financial scammers and 111 00:05:38,210 --> 00:05:41,670 possibly allegedly maybe he'll get off and no crimes were 112 00:05:41,670 --> 00:05:46,030 committed in fucking La La land. But anyway, my point here being 113 00:05:46,110 --> 00:05:50,190 that this guy is as big as it gets and the fact he's still 114 00:05:50,190 --> 00:05:53,110 being mistreated in prison or in, sorry, excuse me, in 115 00:05:53,110 --> 00:05:56,670 pretrial detention, in jail, speaks to how broken the system. 116 00:05:56,670 --> 00:05:59,760 Because imagine how the people with no voice are are doing 117 00:05:59,760 --> 00:06:02,480 right now. Imagine how the people who don't 118 00:06:02,480 --> 00:06:07,280 have money to pay for bail Even so end up in prison for or in 119 00:06:07,280 --> 00:06:10,480 jail for, in jail for weeks if not months before they go to 120 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:13,320 trial. Like these are real issues that 121 00:06:13,400 --> 00:06:18,320 are happening every day to millions of people, not not just 122 00:06:18,360 --> 00:06:20,560 SBF. And that's the important part of 123 00:06:20,560 --> 00:06:22,880 this. That's why I'm glad it's being 124 00:06:23,080 --> 00:06:25,120 it's being, there's some attention being brought to it. 125 00:06:25,240 --> 00:06:29,270 Whether or not people agree with whether SBF should be given 126 00:06:29,270 --> 00:06:31,350 these basic human rights, I think he should. 127 00:06:31,910 --> 00:06:34,750 Whether other people think so, I guess, is just how angry they 128 00:06:34,750 --> 00:06:35,790 are with him. Yeah. 129 00:06:35,790 --> 00:06:39,190 I especially understand why, like other people who have had 130 00:06:39,190 --> 00:06:42,790 experiences with the criminal justice system might end up 131 00:06:42,790 --> 00:06:45,390 feeling particularly frustrated themselves. 132 00:06:45,390 --> 00:06:49,590 Because they'll be. They may see it as I had it even 133 00:06:49,590 --> 00:06:54,030 worse than that, and I didn't even steal $9 billion from my 134 00:06:54,030 --> 00:06:57,560 customers, you know? And so I'd certainly understand 135 00:06:57,560 --> 00:06:59,880 there's lots of reasons for lots of people to be lashing out. 136 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,600 But like you said, fundamentally The thing is people deserve 137 00:07:04,720 --> 00:07:06,960 rights. They deserve to have access to 138 00:07:07,080 --> 00:07:10,320 these things that help them form their defenses, and they deserve 139 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:14,120 a strenuous defense on their behalf in the justice system. 140 00:07:14,560 --> 00:07:18,440 And those things are important. Those things we should strive to 141 00:07:18,440 --> 00:07:20,600 provide those to everyone and a lot of. 142 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:22,840 Everyone happens to include him, yes. 143 00:07:22,960 --> 00:07:26,240 And a lot of these, a lot of these issues are totally fixable 144 00:07:26,400 --> 00:07:28,720 as far as I'm concerned, like vegan meals. 145 00:07:28,920 --> 00:07:31,680 There's a lot of people pushing back on my statements about 146 00:07:31,680 --> 00:07:32,760 that. I was like, oh, he'd give him 147 00:07:32,760 --> 00:07:34,040 his vegan meals, just give it to him. 148 00:07:34,120 --> 00:07:36,480 Everyone's like, well, he doesn't necessarily deserve to 149 00:07:36,480 --> 00:07:37,760 have. It's not like it's covered by 150 00:07:37,760 --> 00:07:42,000 the Constitution And IE, there are prisoners who are Jewish or 151 00:07:42,000 --> 00:07:46,280 Muslim in prison who are given kosher meals and halal meals 152 00:07:46,280 --> 00:07:48,920 right to meet to meet their religious needs. 153 00:07:49,040 --> 00:07:52,870 The the pushback for the veganism that I heard was, well, 154 00:07:52,870 --> 00:07:55,950 this isn't a religious thing. I want to push back on that and 155 00:07:55,950 --> 00:07:58,630 just say one. Vegan meals are incredibly easy 156 00:07:58,630 --> 00:08:01,430 to cook. We're talking about rice, bread 157 00:08:01,710 --> 00:08:04,390 and vegetables. Like, if you're not already, if 158 00:08:04,390 --> 00:08:07,150 you don't already have those things available for prisoners, 159 00:08:07,270 --> 00:08:09,790 there's a problem. Those all of those ingredients 160 00:08:09,790 --> 00:08:12,670 should be actively there for you to be able to make this thing. 161 00:08:12,790 --> 00:08:16,550 I know that they make vegetarian meals for vegetarian because 162 00:08:17,150 --> 00:08:20,430 probably because there's Hindu prisoners and they need to, some 163 00:08:20,430 --> 00:08:23,910 of them need to follow strict vegetarian meals and guidelines, 164 00:08:23,910 --> 00:08:26,310 right? But we are equipped to handle 165 00:08:26,310 --> 00:08:28,670 this. We have the money, we have the 166 00:08:28,830 --> 00:08:31,670 the rules and regulations in place that this should not be an 167 00:08:31,670 --> 00:08:33,789 issue. It's crazy to me to push back on 168 00:08:33,789 --> 00:08:36,470 the idea that like, well, and this guy can eat vegan food in 169 00:08:36,470 --> 00:08:38,150 prison. The thing I want to highlight 170 00:08:38,150 --> 00:08:41,350 there is there often are legal protections for people with 171 00:08:41,350 --> 00:08:44,470 sincerely held religious beliefs to get access to certain things. 172 00:08:44,510 --> 00:08:46,990 Like you're talking about kosher halal and things like that. 173 00:08:47,400 --> 00:08:50,480 And often our prison system fails to do what it's legally 174 00:08:50,480 --> 00:08:52,760 supposed to in many of those cases as well. 175 00:08:53,080 --> 00:08:56,760 And like, again, this is just an example of the pattern in 176 00:08:56,760 --> 00:08:59,680 history of human rights abuses across the US penal system. 177 00:08:59,920 --> 00:09:02,040 Like, there's a reason international human rights 178 00:09:02,040 --> 00:09:05,160 organizations regularly raise alarms about the US prison 179 00:09:05,160 --> 00:09:06,640 system. And it's because there are 180 00:09:06,640 --> 00:09:10,200 regular and massive human rights abuses in our prison system. 181 00:09:10,360 --> 00:09:11,000 Yep. And there's. 182 00:09:11,040 --> 00:09:12,760 And that's also. That brings up another point 183 00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:15,910 that I brought up which is you know, people I think like to 184 00:09:15,910 --> 00:09:18,630 assume like, Oh well, this guy's a big fucking scammer. 185 00:09:18,710 --> 00:09:21,830 He deserves to rot in jail and get Shiv and get treated like 186 00:09:21,830 --> 00:09:23,190 shit. I hope, I hope that's what 187 00:09:23,190 --> 00:09:28,870 happens and and I go, OK, just to for some perspective here, 5% 188 00:09:28,870 --> 00:09:31,950 of the entire US population is going to spend some time behind 189 00:09:31,950 --> 00:09:33,550 bars. So you're going to, if you're 190 00:09:33,550 --> 00:09:36,710 not the one who ends up behind you in jail at some point, or in 191 00:09:36,710 --> 00:09:41,430 prison at some point, someone you know absolutely will. 100% 192 00:09:41,430 --> 00:09:44,790 sure, 100% sure, right? If you go outside and meet 193 00:09:44,790 --> 00:09:48,910 people, someone you know will go to jail or prison, do you want 194 00:09:48,910 --> 00:09:51,750 them to be treated respectfully and with dignity, or do you not 195 00:09:51,750 --> 00:09:53,550 give a shit? Do you really think, like anyone 196 00:09:53,550 --> 00:09:56,710 who's in jail, anyone who's in prison deserves the worst kind 197 00:09:56,710 --> 00:09:58,800 of treatment? It's time to reflect on these 198 00:09:58,800 --> 00:10:01,400 things. You know, we live in a society. 199 00:10:01,400 --> 00:10:03,080 I it's it. It's true, though. 200 00:10:03,320 --> 00:10:06,640 Like we shouldn't be the the fact these are it's such 201 00:10:06,640 --> 00:10:09,200 punitive measures, right? Instead of worrying about 202 00:10:09,200 --> 00:10:12,440 recidivism, instead of worrying about rehabilitation, instead of 203 00:10:12,440 --> 00:10:14,600 worrying about making sure that these people don't repeat their 204 00:10:14,600 --> 00:10:18,760 fucking problems when they go back into society, We're focused 205 00:10:18,760 --> 00:10:20,800 on hurting people as much as possible. 206 00:10:21,100 --> 00:10:24,460 And the reality is, if Sam Bankman Freed gets 15 years in 207 00:10:24,460 --> 00:10:29,540 prison or something 10/15/20 and is treated like horseshit the 208 00:10:29,540 --> 00:10:33,460 entire time, like no human rights, do you think he's going 209 00:10:33,460 --> 00:10:37,300 to come out a like capable and reasonable human being? 210 00:10:37,460 --> 00:10:40,340 At least if you try to rehabilitate him, he's not 211 00:10:40,340 --> 00:10:43,060 necessarily going to be as bad. At least you can say you tried 212 00:10:43,420 --> 00:10:46,420 like just damaging someone repeatedly. 213 00:10:46,580 --> 00:10:48,780 We know what that does to people, so I just don't 214 00:10:48,780 --> 00:10:51,390 understand this at all. And I think people need to 215 00:10:51,390 --> 00:10:55,710 reevaluate their It's like vengeance is just so easy and I 216 00:10:55,710 --> 00:10:58,870 think people really need to reevaluate where their morals 217 00:10:58,870 --> 00:11:01,470 and ethics lie. When it comes to this, I get it. 218 00:11:01,470 --> 00:11:04,710 It's easy to hate SVF. He is a total scammer. 219 00:11:04,750 --> 00:11:08,030 He lies constantly. The dude cannot open his mouth 220 00:11:08,070 --> 00:11:11,270 and speak any honest truth for years on end. 221 00:11:11,470 --> 00:11:14,280 He's like the his behavior is disgusting. 222 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,320 He's as despicable as it gets without getting into like, 223 00:11:17,320 --> 00:11:19,640 murder and other horrifying crimes. 224 00:11:19,640 --> 00:11:20,960 Right. He's disgusting. 225 00:11:21,040 --> 00:11:22,800 Fine. He's also a human being. 226 00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,720 Like, I don't know, man. It just the the reaction was 227 00:11:25,720 --> 00:11:28,320 just so it was kind of like, man, I I don't understand how so 228 00:11:28,320 --> 00:11:30,280 many people think this is acceptable, you know? 229 00:11:30,280 --> 00:11:32,200 Yeah, and like, that's what you're up. 230 00:11:32,200 --> 00:11:34,600 What Ed was about. And there was definitely a lot 231 00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:37,800 of people who agree that human beings deserve treatment as 232 00:11:37,800 --> 00:11:43,450 human beings, which is good. The other thing I want to talk 233 00:11:43,450 --> 00:11:46,810 about besides this, which is also something we talked about a 234 00:11:46,810 --> 00:11:48,970 little bit in our Reggie Fowler episode of People Want to go 235 00:11:48,970 --> 00:11:52,810 back and Listen to that. There's been still conspiracy 236 00:11:52,810 --> 00:11:56,090 theory theories about Sam Bankman freed and his ongoing 237 00:11:56,090 --> 00:12:00,000 criminal prosecution. Including the fact that as part 238 00:12:00,000 --> 00:12:03,080 of our extradition treaty with the Bahamas, we have certain 239 00:12:03,080 --> 00:12:06,320 responsibilities about when charges are introduced and when 240 00:12:06,320 --> 00:12:09,560 people are extradited, and those were not necessarily followed 241 00:12:09,560 --> 00:12:13,080 with Sam Bankman Freed, which has since required certain 242 00:12:13,080 --> 00:12:16,360 charges to be removed from like the current trial date. 243 00:12:16,780 --> 00:12:20,260 And the allegations either incorporated in to other 244 00:12:20,260 --> 00:12:24,380 existing charges or other charges are pending reintroduce, 245 00:12:24,580 --> 00:12:27,460 reintroduction for month. Trial date, yes. 246 00:12:27,620 --> 00:12:30,180 And so those charges are not really going away. 247 00:12:30,460 --> 00:12:33,060 And as we've talked about before in the case of Sam Bankman 248 00:12:33,060 --> 00:12:36,380 Freed, if prosecutors really wanted, they could go through 249 00:12:36,380 --> 00:12:39,860 and add one wire fraud charge for like every single person who 250 00:12:39,860 --> 00:12:43,340 sent money to Alameda Research under like the false pretenses 251 00:12:43,340 --> 00:12:45,340 that it was going to FTX or something, right. 252 00:12:45,620 --> 00:12:48,780 And so prosecutors. Can and potentially will still 253 00:12:48,780 --> 00:12:52,620 scale up his prosecution in the future if that's what they think 254 00:12:52,620 --> 00:12:55,540 is justified inappropriate. So I've just been a little bit 255 00:12:55,540 --> 00:12:58,700 frustrated with some of the conspiracy theories around those 256 00:12:58,700 --> 00:13:02,220 dropping of charges. And like the other thing I'm 257 00:13:02,220 --> 00:13:04,900 going to emphasize, just to kind of make sure people understand 258 00:13:04,900 --> 00:13:08,820 this just because Sam Bankman Freed, is pleading not guilty. 259 00:13:09,080 --> 00:13:13,040 Right now does not mean he will continue to plead not guilty. 260 00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,120 Often you are required to plead not guilty initially, even if 261 00:13:17,120 --> 00:13:20,240 you think you are guilty, just because, like, the system's not 262 00:13:20,240 --> 00:13:23,840 ready for you to plead guilty yet and like, that's an actual 263 00:13:23,840 --> 00:13:26,280 thing that exists. And, and I want to be clear here 264 00:13:26,280 --> 00:13:29,320 too, if you have a capable legal team behind you, which as far as 265 00:13:29,320 --> 00:13:31,840 I know he does, you're generally not going to plead guilty right 266 00:13:31,840 --> 00:13:32,480 away. Why? 267 00:13:32,480 --> 00:13:34,760 Well, you're not going to get anything in return, right? 268 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,960 If they don't offer you anything and you go, I plead guilty, 269 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:40,000 well, they're going to accept your guilty plea and they are 270 00:13:40,000 --> 00:13:41,560 going to hang you from the gallows. 271 00:13:41,560 --> 00:13:43,680 You've got to get something in return and to get something in 272 00:13:43,680 --> 00:13:45,880 return, you're going to play a little bit of a game. 273 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,880 And that unfortunately, whether we like it or not, is a part of 274 00:13:48,880 --> 00:13:51,720 the legal system, right? So you have to have something 275 00:13:51,720 --> 00:13:55,690 for them for you to plead guilty, give them something and 276 00:13:55,690 --> 00:13:57,690 them to be like, OK, well then we'll cut you a deal. 277 00:13:57,850 --> 00:13:59,850 And that's what SPF is hoping will happen. 278 00:13:59,850 --> 00:14:00,970 That doesn't mean that's what happens. 279 00:14:00,970 --> 00:14:03,930 That doesn't mean he gets only five years or only 10 years or 280 00:14:04,130 --> 00:14:06,810 who knows. But that's what SPF wants to 281 00:14:06,810 --> 00:14:08,690 happen, and we don't know if it will. 282 00:14:08,770 --> 00:14:11,290 Yeah, Sam Bankman. Freed's goal, as far as I can 283 00:14:11,290 --> 00:14:15,650 tell right now, is basically to muddy the waters, cast doubt on 284 00:14:15,650 --> 00:14:18,170 key witnesses and the evidence they're introducing. 285 00:14:18,370 --> 00:14:22,130 Try to place the blame like his Mens Rea, his head state for 286 00:14:22,130 --> 00:14:24,770 many of these decisions. Say that that state was. 287 00:14:24,850 --> 00:14:27,890 Induced by legal counsel and other things to make it so that 288 00:14:27,890 --> 00:14:30,890 prosecutors don't want to add more charges that will be hard 289 00:14:30,890 --> 00:14:32,690 to prove. So that like you're saying he 290 00:14:32,690 --> 00:14:35,370 can eventually come up with some deal where he shares whatever 291 00:14:35,370 --> 00:14:38,240 information he does have? In exchange for a reduced 292 00:14:38,240 --> 00:14:41,360 sentence, yada yada yada. That's the met up, probably, of 293 00:14:41,360 --> 00:14:44,000 what his team is planning to do. The other thing I want to 294 00:14:44,000 --> 00:14:47,080 emphasize to people is from where I'm sitting, and again, 295 00:14:47,200 --> 00:14:50,360 we're not lawyers, we're definitely not prosecutors, not 296 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:53,160 experts. But it seems quite likely to me 297 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,720 that Sam Bankman Freed is going to prison for much longer than 298 00:14:56,720 --> 00:14:58,640 Sam Bankman Freed would want to go to prison. 299 00:14:59,000 --> 00:15:00,520 Anytime is more than he wants for. 300 00:15:00,680 --> 00:15:03,000 Sure, yeah. But there are already guilty 301 00:15:03,000 --> 00:15:06,920 pleas from almost all the rest alike the top executives at. 302 00:15:07,120 --> 00:15:11,000 FTX, they have full cooperation access to all the 303 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:15,080 communications, like all the text messages, all the records, 304 00:15:15,080 --> 00:15:19,000 all the logs. They have such an over what, 4 305 00:15:19,000 --> 00:15:21,840 million pages or something was the initial like discovery 306 00:15:21,840 --> 00:15:24,480 they're sending over to him. There are massive. 307 00:15:24,910 --> 00:15:26,670 Quantities of evidence? Math. 308 00:15:26,950 --> 00:15:31,470 Powerful, cooperating witnesses. Like, he's in a really bad place 309 00:15:31,470 --> 00:15:33,710 and that's just for evidence. I want, I want people to 310 00:15:33,710 --> 00:15:36,070 understand that this is just, this is we're just saying like, 311 00:15:36,070 --> 00:15:37,990 oh shit, there's a lot of evidence against this guy. 312 00:15:38,190 --> 00:15:39,550 So he's in trouble on that front. 313 00:15:39,550 --> 00:15:42,750 But I want to point people to a recent guilty white collar 314 00:15:42,750 --> 00:15:46,190 criminal, Elizabeth Holmes, OK? She is going to be doing nine 315 00:15:46,190 --> 00:15:49,910 years in a federal prison, OK? She just had her second baby. 316 00:15:49,990 --> 00:15:51,830 She was pregnant during the trial. 317 00:15:52,150 --> 00:15:55,470 If that isn't going to win you some, you know, benefit of the 318 00:15:55,470 --> 00:15:59,790 doubt and some Oh my gosh, well, at least you know, she's a she's 319 00:15:59,790 --> 00:16:02,310 a mother now. We got to we got to make sure 320 00:16:02,310 --> 00:16:04,310 that she's able to spend time with her kids and they don't 321 00:16:04,310 --> 00:16:05,950 grow up without a mom and blah, blah, blah. 322 00:16:06,150 --> 00:16:08,910 She's doing 9 years behind bars for her crimes. 323 00:16:09,070 --> 00:16:11,710 She didn't hurt nearly as many people as Sam Bankman freed. 324 00:16:11,910 --> 00:16:15,030 She only hurt mostly just very wealthy people. 325 00:16:15,310 --> 00:16:18,780 So, like, in terms of that, just reflect on that, right? 326 00:16:18,900 --> 00:16:22,060 That's nine years for someone who did essentially a smaller 327 00:16:22,060 --> 00:16:26,180 fraud that hurt less people and is a more sympathetic character. 328 00:16:26,340 --> 00:16:27,940 You think SPF is going to get off? 329 00:16:28,020 --> 00:16:30,420 Fucking wake up, dude. There's not a chance in the 330 00:16:30,420 --> 00:16:31,700 world. I'll bet anyone. 331 00:16:31,820 --> 00:16:33,940 If you think he's not going to, if you think he's genuinely 332 00:16:33,940 --> 00:16:36,300 going to do no time, I'll bet anybody. 333 00:16:36,460 --> 00:16:39,790 I'll bet anyone. Yes, he donated to President 334 00:16:39,790 --> 00:16:43,030 Biden, right? And was part of some conspiracy 335 00:16:43,070 --> 00:16:47,390 involving Szalinski and he met. Ups but I know he was involved 336 00:16:47,990 --> 00:16:48,710 right? Whatever. 337 00:16:48,710 --> 00:16:52,630 I just don't it's so it's so I'm so past it and then and for me 338 00:16:52,670 --> 00:16:56,430 the one thing I also want to emphasize here is how obviously 339 00:16:56,430 --> 00:17:01,830 failed the Cash Cash bail bond mechanism is in general right. 340 00:17:01,990 --> 00:17:04,430 And I think proof of this is SBF. 341 00:17:04,670 --> 00:17:09,490 SBF gets $250 million bail bond. Obviously the the way it works 342 00:17:09,490 --> 00:17:12,170 in case anyone's unfamiliar as you pay it roughly 10% of that 343 00:17:12,170 --> 00:17:14,530 and you can get out if you don't have the money to pay for it 344 00:17:14,530 --> 00:17:17,450 yourself or the collateral to pay for itself for yourself. 345 00:17:17,450 --> 00:17:20,170 You can usually get a bail bondsman to take on that that 346 00:17:20,170 --> 00:17:22,730 collateral obligation for you partially and then you have to 347 00:17:22,730 --> 00:17:24,970 pay back a loan on that obligation. 348 00:17:25,130 --> 00:17:28,050 What did this accomplish right. We have to reflect on this. 349 00:17:28,050 --> 00:17:29,690 What did it accomplished? He put up 200. 350 00:17:29,690 --> 00:17:32,890 They put up $250 million to get Sandbank and Freed out of 351 00:17:32,890 --> 00:17:35,910 detention. Then he goes out, He starts 352 00:17:36,070 --> 00:17:38,470 spreading rumors, getting in touch with journalists. 353 00:17:38,470 --> 00:17:41,550 He's not supposed to breaking all the rules of the bail that 354 00:17:41,550 --> 00:17:44,230 he was given with this money and this collateral. 355 00:17:44,470 --> 00:17:45,950 And now he's back in detention again. 356 00:17:46,110 --> 00:17:47,750 So it accomplished nothing. It allowed him to break some 357 00:17:47,750 --> 00:17:50,390 rules and as you said, muddy the waters and make things more 358 00:17:50,390 --> 00:17:53,390 complex and weird. Another individual who just got 359 00:17:53,470 --> 00:17:56,510 a big gigantic, I think the largest in history in terms of 360 00:17:56,510 --> 00:18:00,640 actually being paid for, Joe Lewis, who is the owner of 361 00:18:00,800 --> 00:18:05,280 Tottenham Hotspur and the Albany, which is where SBF was 362 00:18:05,280 --> 00:18:09,200 living when he got in trouble. This guy just got in trouble 363 00:18:09,200 --> 00:18:12,640 too, for insider trading and fraud, and he put up a $300 364 00:18:12,640 --> 00:18:17,040 million bail with his yacht and private jet. 365 00:18:17,200 --> 00:18:19,200 So what do we think of this is going to do? 366 00:18:19,200 --> 00:18:20,160 I mean, this guy's A billionaire. 367 00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,440 He can buy a new jet tomorrow, he can buy a new yacht tomorrow. 368 00:18:23,600 --> 00:18:26,000 It doesn't matter. He can go run away if he needs 369 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:27,650 to. Nothing is going to stop him 370 00:18:27,650 --> 00:18:31,410 from doing that, right unless you put an ankle monitor around 371 00:18:31,410 --> 00:18:33,250 him. You ensure that you're tracking 372 00:18:33,250 --> 00:18:36,450 him with GPS and satellite tracking, that you ensure that 373 00:18:36,450 --> 00:18:38,970 he isn't leaving the country. You take his passport, you there 374 00:18:39,170 --> 00:18:42,290 are protocols to ensure it, and none of it has to do with money. 375 00:18:42,450 --> 00:18:44,890 We need to get rid of this cash bail bond system like 376 00:18:45,170 --> 00:18:47,250 immediately. It doesn't make any sense at 377 00:18:47,250 --> 00:18:48,650 all. I strongly agree. 378 00:18:48,930 --> 00:18:52,570 I think the cash bail bond system is like one of the. 379 00:18:53,370 --> 00:18:56,290 Clearest examples in our criminal justice system of how 380 00:18:56,290 --> 00:18:59,890 we have codified a certain privilege for the most privilege 381 00:18:59,930 --> 00:19:03,530 right that once you have money, you can avoid these things that 382 00:19:03,530 --> 00:19:05,530 others can't. And as you're saying, the only 383 00:19:05,530 --> 00:19:08,330 real differentiator between these cases is whether or not 384 00:19:08,330 --> 00:19:11,050 you have money when you're accused of a crime. 385 00:19:11,370 --> 00:19:13,410 That shouldn't be the goal of our system. 386 00:19:13,450 --> 00:19:16,970 The Platonic ideal of our legal system is one that treats like 387 00:19:17,010 --> 00:19:21,010 the most downtrodden and the most like wealthy and powerful. 388 00:19:21,500 --> 00:19:25,900 As equal as you possibly can. And like there's limits within 389 00:19:25,900 --> 00:19:28,180 reason of how far you can take that perhaps. 390 00:19:28,340 --> 00:19:32,020 But like that's the ideal. And cash bail bond is just one 391 00:19:32,020 --> 00:19:33,860 example of where we don't even try to do that. 392 00:19:33,860 --> 00:19:36,780 Yeah, that's right. It's just an obvious advantage 393 00:19:36,780 --> 00:19:41,500 for rich people and really no advantage for for anyone who 394 00:19:41,820 --> 00:19:44,100 doesn't have the income to to deal with this kind of thing. 395 00:19:44,100 --> 00:19:47,560 Yeah, it's just a very gross, gross, broken, broken system 396 00:19:47,560 --> 00:19:50,360 that needs fixing. Well, and if you listen to like, 397 00:19:50,360 --> 00:19:54,080 testimony of certain convicts and stuff, like when you are 398 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:59,920 destitute, prosecutors and Da's have been accused of using that 399 00:19:59,920 --> 00:20:02,880 as leverage, basically because they know you're going back into 400 00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,240 whatever horrible detention facility you're in. 401 00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:09,520 They know you're more desperate to strike a deal or to say 402 00:20:09,520 --> 00:20:11,600 whatever, to do whatever, because you don't want to go 403 00:20:11,600 --> 00:20:12,320 back. Right. 404 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:15,120 And to be clear, like it's one of the founding principles of 405 00:20:15,120 --> 00:20:17,680 our country is kind of this innocent until proven guilty, 406 00:20:17,880 --> 00:20:20,320 right? That you aren't going to be 407 00:20:20,320 --> 00:20:23,480 treated like you are guilty even if everyone, like watched you do 408 00:20:23,480 --> 00:20:26,040 the crime. Like, until we prove it in a 409 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:30,760 court of law, you are innocent. And so at like, reasonable bail 410 00:20:30,880 --> 00:20:35,030 without having to pay an arm and a leg, just seems like the right 411 00:20:35,030 --> 00:20:38,990 thing to do here as a country to follow our guiding principles. 412 00:20:39,030 --> 00:20:40,990 I like maybe I'm shouting into the void here. 413 00:20:40,990 --> 00:20:43,270 But like this, it's just, it's just something I think is 414 00:20:43,270 --> 00:20:45,910 necessary for us to talk about and something I really do think 415 00:20:45,910 --> 00:20:47,830 can be fixed within our lifetime. 416 00:20:48,030 --> 00:20:51,110 Like, I don't expect the entire penal system to get overturned. 417 00:20:51,110 --> 00:20:54,030 I hate the idea that private prisons do what they do in our 418 00:20:54,030 --> 00:20:55,590 country. I think that, yeah, that they 419 00:20:55,590 --> 00:20:57,670 exist like that. They aren't more heavily 420 00:20:57,670 --> 00:21:00,150 regulated. Like that's why there's so many 421 00:21:00,150 --> 00:21:02,710 people in prison in our country. I have no doubt about that. 422 00:21:02,710 --> 00:21:05,590 But, like, if we're not going to change that anytime soon, and 423 00:21:05,590 --> 00:21:09,310 we're not, then the least we can do is ensure that Bail bond is 424 00:21:09,310 --> 00:21:12,110 working properly, that prisoners are getting their medicine, that 425 00:21:12,110 --> 00:21:13,790 prisoners are getting the food that they need. 426 00:21:14,210 --> 00:21:15,850 Like obviously within reason, right? 427 00:21:15,850 --> 00:21:19,690 If somebody says I'm on an only wog you steak diet or something, 428 00:21:19,690 --> 00:21:21,090 I understand being like, go fuck yourself. 429 00:21:21,130 --> 00:21:22,850 Who's going? To be the first indicted 430 00:21:22,850 --> 00:21:26,490 bitcoiner to argue that they have a moral conviction that 431 00:21:26,650 --> 00:21:29,330 requires them to have only red meat, I would think they would 432 00:21:29,330 --> 00:21:32,130 already be in there, right? There's got to be a few dudes 433 00:21:32,130 --> 00:21:34,810 who were already in prison trying to argue that already 434 00:21:34,810 --> 00:21:37,010 that I don't fucking buy. There's a limit limit to how 435 00:21:37,090 --> 00:21:39,290 even how far I will go in terms of my sympathy. 436 00:21:39,330 --> 00:21:42,140 But yes, I do think we need to reform this stuff. 437 00:21:42,140 --> 00:21:43,980 SPF is a good jumping off point for that. 438 00:21:43,980 --> 00:21:46,340 So we thought it was worth talking about, understand some 439 00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:48,260 people are just going to be like, why does SPF? 440 00:21:48,260 --> 00:21:49,860 Like SPF isn't going to change this. 441 00:21:49,860 --> 00:21:54,940 And it's like, but we can make this a point of of retention of 442 00:21:54,940 --> 00:21:57,860 this information for everyone in crypto to be like, we need to 443 00:21:57,860 --> 00:22:00,060 change this. A lot of people do focus on this 444 00:22:00,060 --> 00:22:02,140 stuff and they understand the corruptness of it in 445 00:22:02,140 --> 00:22:05,500 cryptocurrency and that's good. But a lot of people also don't 446 00:22:05,860 --> 00:22:10,020 care about criminal reform and just in the justice system, and 447 00:22:10,020 --> 00:22:12,700 I think it's probably time to think about it because some of 448 00:22:12,700 --> 00:22:14,100 you are definitely going to go to prison.