1 00:00:00,400 --> 00:00:02,600 Hi everyone. I try not to start episodes with 2 00:00:02,600 --> 00:00:06,300 a long monologue, but I'm going to quickly let you guys know 3 00:00:06,300 --> 00:00:11,100 that we are releasing a podcast with the support and help of 4 00:00:11,100 --> 00:00:14,700 protoss which you can follow at Proto's on Twitter. 5 00:00:15,000 --> 00:00:20,600 It's a long-form investigative. Look into the blockchain city, 6 00:00:20,600 --> 00:00:26,500 which is not a city but was an idea that Jeffrey Burns had and 7 00:00:26,500 --> 00:00:28,800 tried to implement in the Nevada desert. 8 00:00:28,800 --> 00:00:31,000 We reference that throughout about this episode of bunch of 9 00:00:31,000 --> 00:00:32,800 times. So I wanted to let you guys know 10 00:00:32,800 --> 00:00:36,000 that it will be out on March 1st Tuesday. 11 00:00:36,500 --> 00:00:39,100 And if you have some time on your hands and have an 12 00:00:39,100 --> 00:00:42,100 opportunity, if you could just go over there, you can find it 13 00:00:42,100 --> 00:00:44,300 on your favorite podcasting platform. 14 00:00:44,400 --> 00:00:48,900 Innovated blockchain City. Now, without further Ado, crypto 15 00:00:48,900 --> 00:00:56,100 critics corner. Welcome back everyone. 16 00:00:56,100 --> 00:01:00,800 I am Caspian Sea and I'm joined as usual by my partner in crime. 17 00:01:01,000 --> 00:01:03,300 Mr. Bennett Tomlin. How are you today? 18 00:01:03,500 --> 00:01:04,300 I'm doing well. Cass. 19 00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:05,700 How are you? I'm doing good. 20 00:01:05,900 --> 00:01:07,700 We're joined by a really special guest today. 21 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:13,000 Dr. Angela Vergara, who teaches at Caltech and specializes in 22 00:01:13,000 --> 00:01:16,800 kind of the history of company towns, which is the topic that 23 00:01:16,800 --> 00:01:18,400 we are going to be broaching today. 24 00:01:18,600 --> 00:01:20,800 Angela. Welcome on and thank You for 25 00:01:20,800 --> 00:01:22,600 joining us? Hello? 26 00:01:22,900 --> 00:01:25,600 And it's great to be back in the program and talking about 27 00:01:25,600 --> 00:01:27,300 company towns. I really like. 28 00:01:27,900 --> 00:01:32,200 Yeah, hopefully you can all hear her speak on our other podcasts. 29 00:01:32,200 --> 00:01:34,200 Innovated blockchain City Bennett. 30 00:01:34,200 --> 00:01:37,800 Why don't you as as you did last time go ahead and start us out 31 00:01:37,800 --> 00:01:39,800 sure. So I think that one thing that 32 00:01:39,800 --> 00:01:43,600 would be useful for us to start on is if you could just give us 33 00:01:43,700 --> 00:01:46,700 a little bit of an introduction into the history of the concept 34 00:01:46,700 --> 00:01:49,700 of company towns and where it originated. 35 00:01:49,800 --> 00:01:51,400 Sure. So I think as we've been 36 00:01:51,400 --> 00:01:54,500 talking, I'm in the air. Other episod company towns have 37 00:01:54,500 --> 00:01:57,000 a long history. I think mostly they got back to 38 00:01:57,000 --> 00:02:01,900 the 19th century, as ways, in which employers, try to 39 00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:06,800 regulate, or more than regulate to do, to start a company many 40 00:02:06,800 --> 00:02:09,900 times in remote places. So I think the first company 41 00:02:09,900 --> 00:02:13,900 towns who are linked to factor or in industries that were 42 00:02:13,900 --> 00:02:18,000 really far away sometimes from other cities or mining camps 43 00:02:18,000 --> 00:02:23,300 that were also sort of remote. So it's an effort to build House 44 00:02:23,300 --> 00:02:27,100 workers, but at the same time, we take the ideas of controlling 45 00:02:27,100 --> 00:02:30,100 the workforce. So was not only way to provide 46 00:02:30,100 --> 00:02:33,700 housing, but there is something always in company tells of how 47 00:02:33,700 --> 00:02:36,900 you going to control the workforce, how you're gonna 48 00:02:36,900 --> 00:02:41,000 somehow prevent conflicts, and how you also going to change 49 00:02:41,000 --> 00:02:44,000 people's behavior like that. You can have a sort of a 50 00:02:44,000 --> 00:02:47,700 productive. So, those ideas goes back to the 51 00:02:47,700 --> 00:02:52,100 19th century to the sort of industrial growth expansion in 52 00:02:52,100 --> 00:02:57,200 mining from Auntie are some of the text out towns and then you 53 00:02:57,200 --> 00:03:00,500 can see the first one sometimes in Europe, the us. 54 00:03:00,700 --> 00:03:04,000 But they quickly expand also to other parts of the world. 55 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:09,400 What are some of the problems inherent in the company? 56 00:03:09,400 --> 00:03:11,400 Town model? Wasn't there. 57 00:03:11,400 --> 00:03:14,800 So the province of the mother, I think the different, I'm 58 00:03:15,300 --> 00:03:17,900 different dimensions. I think first there's a question 59 00:03:17,900 --> 00:03:21,400 that were private property and because they were private 60 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:25,300 property, they were always Attention with a state with a 61 00:03:25,300 --> 00:03:28,700 national state and with public authorities in the sense that 62 00:03:28,700 --> 00:03:32,300 the company may want to keep things in a certain way within 63 00:03:32,300 --> 00:03:35,200 the company, but we have to think that this Whole Town's, 64 00:03:35,200 --> 00:03:38,200 their cities that people leaving their family, their kids, that 65 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:41,300 women are men. So maintaining that within a 66 00:03:41,300 --> 00:03:46,100 private entity becomes a source of conflict, intentions who was 67 00:03:46,100 --> 00:03:50,200 going to administer Justice, who was in charge of Public Safety, 68 00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:55,100 who was in charge of Education. And health and epidemics and 69 00:03:55,100 --> 00:03:58,300 nautical stuff. So, I would say that the first 70 00:03:58,700 --> 00:04:02,800 conflict has to do with State and in terms of responsibility 71 00:04:02,800 --> 00:04:05,200 for the people who litter and second. 72 00:04:05,200 --> 00:04:08,000 There is the question of Labor tension. 73 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:11,500 You always have Labor tension in a factory in a mine. 74 00:04:12,000 --> 00:04:14,600 But what becomes really implemented accompanied the 75 00:04:14,608 --> 00:04:18,899 house is that you have a sort of intersection between these Urban 76 00:04:18,899 --> 00:04:23,900 demands and the labor demands. So when unions An organization 77 00:04:23,900 --> 00:04:27,500 negotiate with a company. It will not only be about salary 78 00:04:27,900 --> 00:04:32,200 but also could be about sewage of Corsa B about the park. 79 00:04:32,400 --> 00:04:37,100 So that also intensify in many ways, a lot of the labor 80 00:04:37,100 --> 00:04:39,100 conflict. We think company towns. 81 00:04:39,500 --> 00:04:44,400 Do you find that company towns? Well, obviously, that there's 82 00:04:44,400 --> 00:04:47,000 that first kind of there's there's a few iterations, right? 83 00:04:47,000 --> 00:04:50,200 I think, if we go, we want to share with people kind of the 84 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:52,300 history of company towns, it kind of starts. 85 00:04:52,900 --> 00:04:55,600 Even before when most people think it starts like in the, in 86 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,500 the 1700s when there's factory work. 87 00:04:58,500 --> 00:05:01,200 Now, once once they've invented factories, you can kind of 88 00:05:01,200 --> 00:05:04,400 figure out a way to force, a Township on this Factory 89 00:05:04,400 --> 00:05:07,600 concept, but then it goes on and like you said, it, it starts to 90 00:05:07,600 --> 00:05:11,100 be this separation outside of a city. 91 00:05:11,100 --> 00:05:14,200 Almost like, if I think you can even go back to like, Pullman 92 00:05:14,200 --> 00:05:17,700 Illinois and, and like, that. It wasn't quite in Chicago. 93 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:21,800 It was outside of Chicago and, and then even further right, 94 00:05:21,800 --> 00:05:24,800 you're talking about Towns and stuff where they were thousands 95 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:27,600 and thousands of feet up on a Mountaintop where it was 96 00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:30,400 difficult to and difficult and treacherous to get to. 97 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:36,000 But I guess I'm wondering if it's kind of inherent to any 98 00:05:36,000 --> 00:05:39,400 industry. That is experiencing kind of 99 00:05:39,400 --> 00:05:42,900 explosive growth. Well, I think the most typical 100 00:05:42,900 --> 00:05:46,100 case for this work with the mining industry and I think you 101 00:05:46,108 --> 00:05:48,200 mentioned that with the sort of isolate come. 102 00:05:48,200 --> 00:05:52,000 So I think the expansion of industrial mining especially in 103 00:05:52,000 --> 00:05:53,200 the 19th century. Century. 104 00:05:53,200 --> 00:05:56,400 But I also threw out the first part of the 20th century, you 105 00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,800 really have that connection between company towns and 106 00:05:59,800 --> 00:06:04,400 Industrial Mining and especially thinking about how mining was 107 00:06:04,600 --> 00:06:09,500 not, just a all kind of pre-modern expectation and cower 108 00:06:09,500 --> 00:06:11,800 at work. But how they also became heavily 109 00:06:11,800 --> 00:06:16,200 industrialized and as the word industrialize they did not only 110 00:06:16,500 --> 00:06:20,200 had a by itself but they have refineries, they have smelters, 111 00:06:20,200 --> 00:06:22,600 they're happy and they have all kinds of stuff. 112 00:06:22,800 --> 00:06:26,900 And also they were much more connected with markets and I am 113 00:06:27,100 --> 00:06:29,500 publication plan that they need to ship stuff. 114 00:06:29,800 --> 00:06:34,200 And that increases sort of like the size of the workforce. 115 00:06:34,200 --> 00:06:37,500 They need to really train the workforce and because of that, 116 00:06:37,500 --> 00:06:41,500 to maintain them for a very long time, to bring families and all 117 00:06:41,500 --> 00:06:44,200 of that. So I think we really see this 118 00:06:44,200 --> 00:06:46,500 sort of explosion, of company towns. 119 00:06:46,700 --> 00:06:50,200 Not only the us, but especially you see the Southwest but also 120 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:54,300 in Canada and also most Not the part of Latin America and 121 00:06:54,300 --> 00:06:57,700 Africa, you really start seeing this company doesn't link to 122 00:06:57,700 --> 00:07:00,700 Industrial Mining and they will last for a long time. 123 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,800 I mean, I was set in the late 20th century when the Mother 124 00:07:03,800 --> 00:07:06,700 start declining as a sort of alternative for the mining 125 00:07:06,700 --> 00:07:10,400 industry. Yeah, you specifically mentioned 126 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:16,000 in your book, El Salvador chili. Sorry, if any of not the country 127 00:07:16,000 --> 00:07:19,600 El Salvador El, Salvador, El Salvador Chile, which was a city 128 00:07:19,600 --> 00:07:22,600 that had a lot of people for a brief period of time. 129 00:07:23,400 --> 00:07:28,300 And that was run by Anaconda Copper company, which also set 130 00:07:28,300 --> 00:07:30,800 up a company town called Anaconda. 131 00:07:30,800 --> 00:07:35,100 Montana in America. Both of these towns had 132 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:38,500 populations that ranged from like, 25,000 to like, I don't 133 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:41,700 know, 50,000 or something, and they're now, like, shells of 134 00:07:41,700 --> 00:07:45,300 their former selves, but it is interesting that when I like 135 00:07:45,300 --> 00:07:50,300 looked into Anaconda that it's like, Arco Arco is, what owns 136 00:07:50,300 --> 00:07:52,500 everything that was once anaconda. 137 00:07:52,500 --> 00:07:58,300 And Even still the ramifications are clearly being felt. 138 00:07:58,300 --> 00:08:03,400 And I presume that, I believe our Co close those down, but I 139 00:08:03,400 --> 00:08:06,600 think they would have to be now dealing with all of the 140 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,600 absolutely disgusting clean up that these places left behind in 141 00:08:10,600 --> 00:08:13,400 order that these companies Left Behind where they were, I think 142 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,700 you mentioned very clearly. It's true with many of these 143 00:08:16,700 --> 00:08:20,500 mining camp that is what happened with the company lips. 144 00:08:21,100 --> 00:08:23,900 What happened? When these companies were bought 145 00:08:23,900 --> 00:08:27,400 by different companies such as the case of our go with anaconda 146 00:08:27,700 --> 00:08:30,800 or what happened, when it was replaced by a state company that 147 00:08:30,800 --> 00:08:31,700 will happen. The case. 148 00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:34,799 Oh, chilly. What do you do with right for 149 00:08:34,799 --> 00:08:36,900 you? Do is properties of what you do 150 00:08:36,900 --> 00:08:38,400 with it. Clean up of the mess. 151 00:08:38,600 --> 00:08:42,900 They saw Central to most of the company history. 152 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:45,700 So I think there is a question of responsibility. 153 00:08:45,800 --> 00:08:49,200 They say never clearing company towns have responsible. 154 00:08:49,200 --> 00:08:52,200 They offered people while being somehow the response, what they 155 00:08:52,200 --> 00:08:55,100 are for the environment. And sometimes it depends on the 156 00:08:55,100 --> 00:08:58,700 kind of laws state laws of federal laws, or country laws, 157 00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:02,600 and how they would define those responsibilities, but I think 158 00:09:02,600 --> 00:09:05,900 the fact that and I think in some ways, the same the main 159 00:09:05,900 --> 00:09:09,500 tension and I thought you said, I mean you have 20,000 people 160 00:09:09,500 --> 00:09:14,500 live in dark, you know, and then they might close down and then 161 00:09:14,500 --> 00:09:17,300 what happened with the people? Could stay store today supposed 162 00:09:17,300 --> 00:09:20,500 to leave and relocate. Can they stay? 163 00:09:20,800 --> 00:09:24,700 Who is responsible for giving them a new kind of life or new 164 00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:27,300 kind of chop. And I think the only issue that 165 00:09:27,300 --> 00:09:32,900 continue to be very present in many of the mining camps as that 166 00:09:33,000 --> 00:09:36,900 which is somehow and age, you know, like their mind is not a 167 00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:40,000 productive anymore or they becoming too toxic. 168 00:09:40,100 --> 00:09:44,000 There is one of the other issues and I think that is very 169 00:09:44,000 --> 00:09:47,200 eccentric understanding how it Think about company tells how we 170 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:49,700 think about company responsibility. 171 00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:52,400 How we think about what should be a round of public institution 172 00:09:52,400 --> 00:09:56,100 in regulating this displays. I think related to that. 173 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:58,900 And you mention this when you were talking earlier about how 174 00:09:58,900 --> 00:10:03,800 one of the primary sources of friction is in the division of 175 00:10:03,900 --> 00:10:07,600 responsibilities in powers between the company itself, and 176 00:10:07,600 --> 00:10:10,900 whatever, other governments exist, in that region, and this 177 00:10:11,000 --> 00:10:14,200 is both providing services. So who's going to enforce the 178 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,600 law? Educate the children? 179 00:10:15,700 --> 00:10:18,100 And provide the health care and besides that, like you're 180 00:10:18,100 --> 00:10:21,700 talking about their end. There can be a point where if 181 00:10:21,700 --> 00:10:24,600 those responsibilities are delegated to the company and the 182 00:10:24,608 --> 00:10:28,100 company's ceases to exist that you need to those Services, 183 00:10:28,100 --> 00:10:31,000 still need to be provided. So are there any like specific 184 00:10:31,000 --> 00:10:34,300 examples or things that are important to keep in mind? 185 00:10:34,300 --> 00:10:38,300 When looking at the tension between the existing 186 00:10:38,300 --> 00:10:41,800 governmental structures and the structures of the company in 187 00:10:41,808 --> 00:10:43,600 these types of cases? What? 188 00:10:43,700 --> 00:10:48,500 I think I mean it keeps changing but I will say that this what is 189 00:10:48,500 --> 00:10:52,400 important in most of these? When it company town saraiva 190 00:10:52,400 --> 00:10:55,800 when he's proposed. I think there is the question of 191 00:10:55,800 --> 00:10:58,400 who owns what that should be resolved. 192 00:10:58,600 --> 00:11:02,100 And I think for instance the workers and families have the 193 00:11:02,100 --> 00:11:04,100 right to own a home. You're not. 194 00:11:04,100 --> 00:11:07,700 Can they purchase that land, you know, and I think or it will 195 00:11:07,700 --> 00:11:12,400 always be a company house. So I think those issues can be 196 00:11:12,400 --> 00:11:16,000 resolved and A point in history. Some company does Forrester 197 00:11:16,000 --> 00:11:19,500 encourage homeownership because they want people to stay. 198 00:11:19,800 --> 00:11:24,000 And they also want some hard to distance himself from the 199 00:11:24,000 --> 00:11:27,700 administration of the most everyday issue of a city. 200 00:11:27,700 --> 00:11:33,100 I think it's also critical to, to see and understand the role 201 00:11:33,100 --> 00:11:36,100 of the police, you know, and especially law enforcement 202 00:11:36,100 --> 00:11:39,100 within the town because in history, I mean, you brought the 203 00:11:39,100 --> 00:11:42,600 case of Pullman before, but you do have two other cases in which 204 00:11:42,800 --> 00:11:46,400 the sort of Camp. Gart are private police 205 00:11:46,500 --> 00:11:51,400 considered of collaborate. With the local police force and 206 00:11:51,400 --> 00:11:54,400 were do things. Start, and end. 207 00:11:54,400 --> 00:11:57,400 Can you call the police to repress a strike? 208 00:11:57,400 --> 00:11:59,800 Can you call them to resort to like resolve? 209 00:11:59,800 --> 00:12:02,300 A domestic dispute who's in charge of that? 210 00:12:02,300 --> 00:12:07,600 And I think that is key to resolve and last I will say, is, 211 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:11,000 he's the right? The needs to always be there is 212 00:12:11,000 --> 00:12:14,000 a right or the state or the community to really Really 213 00:12:14,000 --> 00:12:17,900 supervise things, you know, it cannot be a private company 214 00:12:17,900 --> 00:12:21,700 where nobody knows what's happening inside, you know, and 215 00:12:21,700 --> 00:12:26,600 I was recently reading about those all plutonian camps in the 216 00:12:26,600 --> 00:12:29,300 former Soviet Union that they were completely secret. 217 00:12:29,300 --> 00:12:32,500 I like and I think that is an example you need to know what 218 00:12:32,500 --> 00:12:35,800 happened or it needs to be regulated and the question of 219 00:12:35,800 --> 00:12:39,600 our environmental damage. I think Center or the impact on 220 00:12:39,600 --> 00:12:44,700 people's bodies and disease continues to be a very Central I 221 00:12:44,700 --> 00:12:47,400 find it interesting that you're mentioning like like a private 222 00:12:47,400 --> 00:12:49,600 police force, private security Force, kind of like keeping 223 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:51,500 everybody in line in the company town. 224 00:12:51,500 --> 00:12:55,500 Because something that I realized when we I took, I took 225 00:12:55,500 --> 00:13:00,100 a trip to Story County for our other podcast and something that 226 00:13:00,100 --> 00:13:03,800 didn't fit in the actual podcast, is that the courthouse 227 00:13:04,000 --> 00:13:08,300 in Story County. Nevada is actually one of only 228 00:13:08,300 --> 00:13:13,500 two courthouses in America. Where Justice is in blindfolded. 229 00:13:13,600 --> 00:13:18,100 Justice is seeing everything and is making a decision based on 230 00:13:18,100 --> 00:13:19,500 everything that Justice is seeing. 231 00:13:19,500 --> 00:13:24,300 Which goes just tells you like. I mean Story County was formed 232 00:13:24,400 --> 00:13:27,200 as a silver, mining town. It was like this. 233 00:13:27,200 --> 00:13:32,300 This is this place was formed just because of silver and they 234 00:13:32,300 --> 00:13:36,000 almost maybe it was by accident. But in a sense, they almost 235 00:13:36,000 --> 00:13:39,700 acknowledged like yeah, Justice isn't blind here. 236 00:13:39,700 --> 00:13:42,900 We're picking a side before you ever get into the courtroom and 237 00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:46,000 I think it was To add something to that because like in the case 238 00:13:46,000 --> 00:13:49,100 of Chilean mining camps During the period of an account. 239 00:13:49,100 --> 00:13:51,500 For instance. I mean there was Public Service. 240 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:55,200 There was the Nashua police station there but the company 241 00:13:55,200 --> 00:13:58,700 will provide the house and will provide the benefits and it will 242 00:13:58,700 --> 00:14:02,300 provide special food for them. So there was a way in which they 243 00:14:02,300 --> 00:14:04,600 all influence. So, even if they were public 244 00:14:04,600 --> 00:14:08,700 service store because it was a company town, the company will 245 00:14:08,700 --> 00:14:13,800 interfere somehow in all the administration of justice, or Or 246 00:14:14,500 --> 00:14:17,500 online enforcement. So you can see, it was always 247 00:14:17,500 --> 00:14:22,700 unclear how much the company could manipulate many of these 248 00:14:22,700 --> 00:14:25,000 are Services. I didn't want to bring up one 249 00:14:25,000 --> 00:14:28,400 other thing that you reminded me of which was palko, which I 250 00:14:28,408 --> 00:14:30,300 assume. You're also quite familiar with 251 00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:34,500 the Pacific Lumber Company, which was located in our state, 252 00:14:34,500 --> 00:14:38,300 California and you were talking about this ownership of homes 253 00:14:38,300 --> 00:14:40,700 and all of this stuff. And I and I just can't help but 254 00:14:40,700 --> 00:14:45,100 think of Palco because Palco People were happy weird 255 00:14:45,100 --> 00:14:47,800 legitimately happy there as when it was a company town, which I 256 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,900 found. So like it's kind of riveting 257 00:14:49,900 --> 00:14:52,700 because it goes in the face of everything we hear about company 258 00:14:52,700 --> 00:14:54,600 towns. They're so cruel to their 259 00:14:54,600 --> 00:14:57,500 employees usually or there so they don't care about the 260 00:14:57,500 --> 00:14:59,600 environment or they don't care about palko. 261 00:14:59,600 --> 00:15:02,200 Actually did care about the environment Palco did care about 262 00:15:02,200 --> 00:15:05,300 the employees and then one day it didn't matter because an 263 00:15:05,300 --> 00:15:08,200 investor came in. Took over the company, sold off 264 00:15:08,200 --> 00:15:10,900 the assets. Change the way they were doing 265 00:15:10,900 --> 00:15:13,500 Lumber mining in up there in Northern. 266 00:15:13,600 --> 00:15:17,500 California and ultimately, I think the people who had at some 267 00:15:17,500 --> 00:15:21,000 point been guaranteed a home had to, you know, essentially read 268 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,300 by repurchase their home, back from it, some fucking Equity 269 00:15:24,300 --> 00:15:28,600 Firm, excuse me, but so it just kind of flies in the face of 270 00:15:28,600 --> 00:15:32,000 everything that was originally promised to them. 271 00:15:32,500 --> 00:15:36,900 I think is some one thing that's interesting is How people 272 00:15:36,900 --> 00:15:40,600 remember their life in company town and I think most of the 273 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:43,700 time than tend to be very positive and some time for 274 00:15:43,700 --> 00:15:46,500 historians is hard because, you know, all this history of 275 00:15:46,500 --> 00:15:50,100 Grievances and conflict and tension and then you talk to 276 00:15:50,100 --> 00:15:53,100 people and they seem to have had a great life. 277 00:15:53,300 --> 00:15:55,200 At least. I remember as you said for the 278 00:15:55,200 --> 00:15:59,300 lamp that they had home and then something happened and 279 00:15:59,300 --> 00:16:03,100 everything changed. When I'm confronted with that. 280 00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:07,600 I always thought that it wasn't a lot of a A memory a lot about 281 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,000 how they remember their family or have the remember the 282 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:14,000 community or had the remembered to have, have a sense of place 283 00:16:14,000 --> 00:16:17,600 in some ways. And that the change was some - 284 00:16:17,800 --> 00:16:22,300 mostly because he means jobs, are became less secure or 285 00:16:22,300 --> 00:16:25,900 because working condition change or because a company, didn't 286 00:16:25,900 --> 00:16:30,300 really care anymore, but I think sometime is the contrast and not 287 00:16:30,300 --> 00:16:33,800 sorry that the past was so good, but it's a way to somehow they 288 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:38,800 reflect on their past. Many times it also, I think is 289 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,400 the people who had to talk to her, especially about the 290 00:16:41,400 --> 00:16:44,300 history of company tiles or those memories, where people, 291 00:16:44,300 --> 00:16:46,300 not to say that work there, but they were kids. 292 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:50,200 So the memories are also, different is like, in some ways 293 00:16:50,200 --> 00:16:52,300 you can be fun to grab in a company town. 294 00:16:52,300 --> 00:16:56,100 You know, it's really the say, if you run around and you know, 295 00:16:56,100 --> 00:17:00,100 everybody, your purse just work right there. 296 00:17:00,100 --> 00:17:02,900 There's not commute. There's a very strong sense of 297 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:06,500 community. So that also shape memories and 298 00:17:06,500 --> 00:17:09,200 personal accounts are company Towns at that. 299 00:17:09,200 --> 00:17:11,200 Sounds like adjusted. But in really quick and I'm not, 300 00:17:11,200 --> 00:17:13,599 there's no question here, but that does sound like one of the 301 00:17:13,599 --> 00:17:16,300 only benefits that you might see in a company town. 302 00:17:16,300 --> 00:17:20,400 So it's interesting to hear that we were talking about ways that 303 00:17:20,400 --> 00:17:22,400 the company can use their position of power in the fact 304 00:17:22,400 --> 00:17:26,300 that they administer all these services to manipulate various 305 00:17:26,300 --> 00:17:29,200 things and exert their power in different ways. 306 00:17:29,200 --> 00:17:32,600 I think one of the Striking examples of the way, they can do 307 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:36,300 that and did do that was by issuing. 308 00:17:36,500 --> 00:17:41,100 Or company money, where the workers were being paid in a 309 00:17:41,100 --> 00:17:43,400 form of currency. That was generally not broadly 310 00:17:43,400 --> 00:17:47,000 accepted outside of the company town and then was accepted at 311 00:17:47,000 --> 00:17:50,600 the company stores where the company could set the prices. 312 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:55,000 Do you have any thoughts, or historical examples of script 313 00:17:55,000 --> 00:17:57,800 that you think would be useful to share? 314 00:17:58,100 --> 00:18:03,800 Well, I think the script was was coming in the 19th century and 315 00:18:03,800 --> 00:18:06,200 the lobby before, too. I know. 316 00:18:06,300 --> 00:18:10,400 It's very common in the mining camps especially call and I'm 317 00:18:10,600 --> 00:18:14,400 and in the case of Chile for instance, in the nitrate economy 318 00:18:14,600 --> 00:18:16,400 that it was most in the Atacama Desert. 319 00:18:16,400 --> 00:18:18,600 That was awesome. Like sort of little camps, but 320 00:18:18,600 --> 00:18:23,000 the scripts were eventually abolish unless made unlawful in 321 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:24,200 the beginning of the 20th century. 322 00:18:24,200 --> 00:18:27,500 Most of the labor laws prohibit that you could pay people in the 323 00:18:27,508 --> 00:18:30,400 script and the Really push for cash. 324 00:18:30,500 --> 00:18:32,700 So, it's Chris eventually disappear. 325 00:18:32,700 --> 00:18:35,800 I don't think they were present in any of the most modern camps 326 00:18:35,800 --> 00:18:40,000 or the 73 tends to be something more color like this old way of 327 00:18:40,000 --> 00:18:43,500 doing stuff. But I think, even if the script 328 00:18:43,500 --> 00:18:47,200 was not there, there were ways in which the company control 329 00:18:47,200 --> 00:18:50,900 consumption, and at first people to the camp, which is the role 330 00:18:50,900 --> 00:18:54,400 of the script, the script is to put people in depth or maybe 331 00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,800 people that you cannot really live because you're her script 332 00:18:57,800 --> 00:19:00,000 and you had to spend them. You have no cash, but 333 00:19:00,000 --> 00:19:03,200 eventually, what many of the comes did, was they still have a 334 00:19:03,200 --> 00:19:06,500 company store. They paid him in cash, but They 335 00:19:06,500 --> 00:19:09,900 may have a depth so that was another way of trapping people 336 00:19:10,100 --> 00:19:13,900 or they get so many benefits houses or any other things like 337 00:19:13,900 --> 00:19:17,400 that, that some have this supplement their income, that 338 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:21,400 they cannot live anywhere else, you know, so I think we tend to 339 00:19:21,400 --> 00:19:24,900 focus much on the script because it's really this symbol of 340 00:19:24,900 --> 00:19:28,500 Habeas and then really the sort of that life in the mining camp 341 00:19:28,500 --> 00:19:31,400 that night then Center it. But as we move in the 20th 342 00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:34,500 century, we also need to pay attention to other ways in which 343 00:19:34,500 --> 00:19:36,200 the companies continue to manipulate. 344 00:19:36,400 --> 00:19:40,000 People's income and I think the company store especially in 345 00:19:40,000 --> 00:19:43,800 place that were far away. Sometimes when benefit or 346 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:47,700 credit, you know, or you can buy things here cheaper than other 347 00:19:47,700 --> 00:19:50,300 places. So you're somehow trap you 348 00:19:50,300 --> 00:19:53,200 depend on the company. Well, one of the examples you 349 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:57,000 gave there was striking for me just because it's not a way I 350 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,800 had thought of it before. We're in by offering certain 351 00:20:00,800 --> 00:20:03,300 benefits to their workers like the house. 352 00:20:03,300 --> 00:20:06,200 Like the things like that, that is that they would not. 353 00:20:06,300 --> 00:20:09,100 Not be able to afford on their salary outside the town, you 354 00:20:09,100 --> 00:20:11,700 effectively, make it. So they're chained to that house 355 00:20:11,700 --> 00:20:15,000 and therefore to that company in order to continue serving that 356 00:20:15,000 --> 00:20:17,100 way. Yes, that was just very striking 357 00:20:17,100 --> 00:20:18,400 for me. That's not really a question. 358 00:20:18,400 --> 00:20:21,200 But it was just well II. If I can jump in there too. 359 00:20:21,200 --> 00:20:25,000 Then I I think we can lead this into a question because I think 360 00:20:25,000 --> 00:20:28,700 the reality is that the company store or for that matter company 361 00:20:28,700 --> 00:20:31,100 scripture all these things. The reason they can exist in the 362 00:20:31,100 --> 00:20:35,300 first place is because you're so far removed from society that 363 00:20:35,300 --> 00:20:37,900 there is no. Kitchen, wherever you are. 364 00:20:37,900 --> 00:20:42,400 And in that sense, I do think this relates so much to what are 365 00:20:42,400 --> 00:20:46,600 other podcast is talking about because they perp it's almost 366 00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:51,700 like they purposely set this new blockchain technological City in 367 00:20:51,700 --> 00:20:56,000 the middle of the Nevada desert and you go why like I get it 368 00:20:56,000 --> 00:20:59,400 land is cheap, but is that a good enough reason to try to 369 00:20:59,400 --> 00:21:02,500 move 35,000 people to the middle of nowhere? 370 00:21:02,600 --> 00:21:08,400 Where water is not to be found and Pensive to put to bring in, 371 00:21:08,400 --> 00:21:11,200 or is there something, is there something else going on there? 372 00:21:11,200 --> 00:21:13,200 Right? Like is, is it just good 373 00:21:13,200 --> 00:21:16,600 intentions and cheap land or or do you think this is like, the 374 00:21:16,600 --> 00:21:19,400 modern spin that continues to happen to this day? 375 00:21:19,900 --> 00:21:22,700 I mean, there is the question of remote and you mentioned about 376 00:21:22,700 --> 00:21:27,000 that this remote places, where you Need the continued to offer 377 00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:28,400 people. Something. 378 00:21:28,500 --> 00:21:32,700 I mean, you have to satisfy the consumption in it, you know, you 379 00:21:32,700 --> 00:21:36,800 have to provide for all of this but I think in some ways I'm 380 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:39,200 quite we consider the continuity. 381 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:45,700 So the company towns is that they are using that as a tool to 382 00:21:45,700 --> 00:21:48,600 control workers, you know, or to shape them. 383 00:21:48,600 --> 00:21:51,200 I mean, this even discussion about whether they want to 384 00:21:51,200 --> 00:21:54,700 manipulate consumption certain point to get people to consume. 385 00:21:54,800 --> 00:21:58,600 Some certain products in the old time, for instance, that while 386 00:21:58,600 --> 00:22:01,500 people are present in in your restaurant. 387 00:22:01,500 --> 00:22:03,900 They want to americanize that Workforce. 388 00:22:04,100 --> 00:22:07,600 So they encourage women to buy food that were considered 389 00:22:07,600 --> 00:22:10,300 American food and to cook in that way. 390 00:22:10,700 --> 00:22:15,000 So they were using consumption, not only as a way to attract 391 00:22:15,000 --> 00:22:18,700 people because of money and dependency, but also, as a way 392 00:22:18,700 --> 00:22:23,100 to transform people, or made him behave in certain ways, I think 393 00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:27,100 modern companies are Many companies are much more complex, 394 00:22:27,400 --> 00:22:31,500 and I would say more evil sometimes and the have more 395 00:22:31,500 --> 00:22:33,700 interest. So, you don't know, you know why 396 00:22:33,700 --> 00:22:36,700 they bring certain kind of teepees and love other ones 397 00:22:36,900 --> 00:22:39,900 where they have a link with a company, you know, it's harder 398 00:22:40,000 --> 00:22:43,500 now to see who owns a company. There's so many different 399 00:22:43,500 --> 00:22:45,800 interests. So I be careful with the 400 00:22:45,800 --> 00:22:49,400 question of consumption because I think many companies make have 401 00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:53,300 an investment in saying, we want people to consume this or we 402 00:22:53,300 --> 00:22:57,200 want people to really We watch these movies and not other mob 403 00:22:57,200 --> 00:22:59,600 is the stream. These are not other things. 404 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,900 So I think those ways of social control or such as Engineers. 405 00:23:04,900 --> 00:23:07,000 We used to say, for the 20th century. 406 00:23:07,200 --> 00:23:12,900 I still present but it is in this new complex behavior of 407 00:23:13,000 --> 00:23:15,700 modern capital. I think in companies that has so 408 00:23:15,700 --> 00:23:18,700 many different interests. I would say, there's always a 409 00:23:18,700 --> 00:23:21,000 profit of what they're doing. Obviously. 410 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:26,100 You're an academic you you work at Cal, Eight Los Angeles, but 411 00:23:26,100 --> 00:23:28,400 something that I was I was doing on for a while. 412 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,600 Before we jumped on this call was this idea that obviously we 413 00:23:32,600 --> 00:23:34,300 see all these issues with company towns. 414 00:23:34,300 --> 00:23:38,800 They're so they're so kind of almost obvious in the in the 415 00:23:38,808 --> 00:23:41,600 problems that they seemed to cause with the environment with 416 00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:46,300 the people with with history. Like they just leave a horrible 417 00:23:46,300 --> 00:23:49,500 Mark generally, but then I thought about what defines like 418 00:23:49,500 --> 00:23:51,900 a company town, right? And the definition of a company 419 00:23:51,900 --> 00:23:54,100 town without getting into strict definitions. 420 00:23:54,100 --> 00:23:56,900 Here is the Idea that like you have a single employer in, a 421 00:23:56,908 --> 00:24:02,800 relatively remote area, that is kind of dictating how people are 422 00:24:02,800 --> 00:24:06,500 making their decisions and setting the overall salaries. 423 00:24:06,500 --> 00:24:08,700 And there's like, there's a lot of, there's a lot of things that 424 00:24:08,708 --> 00:24:12,100 play obviously, but I'm kind of wondering what the major 425 00:24:12,100 --> 00:24:16,900 difference is between a college town and a company town, because 426 00:24:16,900 --> 00:24:20,200 college towns seem to exist everywhere in America. 427 00:24:20,400 --> 00:24:23,600 And if you think about it on its base level, it's quite similar 428 00:24:23,600 --> 00:24:26,200 to what a company town. Is right, you have a single 429 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,000 employer that's employing. Most people that's bringing in 430 00:24:29,000 --> 00:24:31,200 new people constantly. There's a constant stream of new 431 00:24:31,200 --> 00:24:34,700 people coming in just because of this one thing, the decisions 432 00:24:34,700 --> 00:24:37,500 around that University or going to make or break the community 433 00:24:37,500 --> 00:24:41,800 around it, but I think people are okay with college towns and 434 00:24:41,800 --> 00:24:44,700 people almost like, college towns. 435 00:24:44,900 --> 00:24:47,300 So, what is the big difference there? 436 00:24:47,800 --> 00:24:51,200 You know, I think that's a really A funny question for me 437 00:24:51,200 --> 00:24:54,400 because when I was doing my research, the first time I got 438 00:24:54,400 --> 00:24:57,400 into, Company towns. I was a grad student and I live 439 00:24:57,400 --> 00:25:00,200 at UCSD, in La, Jolla in San Diego. 440 00:25:00,500 --> 00:25:03,100 And then I used to joke. I live in a company Town drama. 441 00:25:03,100 --> 00:25:05,800 Static company town, I get paid, but you see Richard. 442 00:25:06,000 --> 00:25:08,000 I pay my rent, the you see Richard? 443 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:11,100 I buy my food is that you see, Richard and everything is 444 00:25:11,100 --> 00:25:14,200 controlled by them. And I always thought this is the 445 00:25:14,208 --> 00:25:18,700 most classic case of a company Town, especially those college 446 00:25:18,700 --> 00:25:22,100 town that became sort of far away from City that sort of 447 00:25:22,100 --> 00:25:26,300 model of building them far away from Downtown areas and then 448 00:25:26,300 --> 00:25:28,500 your lived. Are you consumed or you get your 449 00:25:28,500 --> 00:25:30,900 meals? And I love that for some reason, 450 00:25:30,900 --> 00:25:34,800 I think people have accepted that because they supposed to be 451 00:25:35,400 --> 00:25:38,900 tolerant community in some ways. I guess, or there is an 452 00:25:38,900 --> 00:25:41,900 intellectual sort of learning environment. 453 00:25:42,200 --> 00:25:48,100 The fact that most of the people are young and then miners in 454 00:25:48,100 --> 00:25:52,800 some ways as a lot of them and you need to protect them and you 455 00:25:52,800 --> 00:25:56,600 need to take care of them. So there is part of that that 456 00:25:56,600 --> 00:26:00,200 layers to accept them college town, but I think there are 457 00:26:00,200 --> 00:26:02,900 controversial in their own ways. The fact that many of them 458 00:26:02,900 --> 00:26:07,100 invest in real estate, the fact that the charge housing in a 459 00:26:07,100 --> 00:26:09,700 very sometime in flavor, rent us. 460 00:26:09,700 --> 00:26:12,500 There's a lot of kids with the you see right now and it's not a 461 00:26:12,508 --> 00:26:16,200 controversy with that. So I think I would not put a 462 00:26:16,208 --> 00:26:22,000 completely out of company, a company town, I think, but they 463 00:26:22,000 --> 00:26:24,600 don't really have everybody I think. 464 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,800 Difference with college town is that their employees don't 465 00:26:27,800 --> 00:26:31,400 really live there, you know, staff people and faculty tend to 466 00:26:31,500 --> 00:26:35,200 migrate out to the periphery at the cottage style. 467 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,700 So maybe they don't really have control so much over them as 468 00:26:38,700 --> 00:26:42,300 they do / / student. But then suddenly what are the 469 00:26:42,300 --> 00:26:46,400 differences I think is that they company town. 470 00:26:46,400 --> 00:26:50,400 The produce is really labor relation, you know, and it's 471 00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:53,700 only a labor relations and that is the main element in the 472 00:26:53,700 --> 00:26:56,200 college town there. Is this sort of educational 473 00:26:56,200 --> 00:27:00,000 mission that maybe influences the should relation with 474 00:27:00,000 --> 00:27:03,300 student, but we may want to explore more other people. 475 00:27:03,300 --> 00:27:06,500 Also told through another mother don't think about military bases 476 00:27:06,500 --> 00:27:12,600 or such company towels. So we have in, I was said if 477 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:16,800 emission that becomes basic flexible and I think, although 478 00:27:16,800 --> 00:27:19,100 we also thinking about what you said about. 479 00:27:19,100 --> 00:27:22,400 Yes, it's a single company, but sometimes there's more than one 480 00:27:22,400 --> 00:27:24,600 company that they share a camp. Like there are several. 481 00:27:24,800 --> 00:27:28,100 Industrial complex, you know, or like industrial sauce. 482 00:27:28,500 --> 00:27:31,300 And that's a very common princess, Central America, or 483 00:27:31,300 --> 00:27:34,000 the Caribbean and other parts of Latin America. 484 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:38,200 So I think we did that in should keep changing. 485 00:27:39,200 --> 00:27:42,300 But I would keep the Labor Relations at the center of every 486 00:27:42,800 --> 00:27:46,500 other company town. Do you think there are any 487 00:27:46,500 --> 00:27:50,900 examples of? Well executed in Good Company 488 00:27:50,900 --> 00:27:54,500 towns or is the model inherently flawed? 489 00:27:54,700 --> 00:27:57,500 Other exploitive, good company towns. 490 00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:03,000 I think some of that company towns, the word that eventually 491 00:28:03,000 --> 00:28:06,100 gave up, for instance, the question of Housing and they 492 00:28:06,100 --> 00:28:10,600 promote her home ownership. I think that's the time for is 493 00:28:10,600 --> 00:28:15,200 not Torrance in California in the lay, some of the Aerospace, 494 00:28:15,600 --> 00:28:19,100 you know, those things. I think they avoid the kind of 495 00:28:19,100 --> 00:28:24,600 conflict that mining camps had, you know, so thousands that also 496 00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:28,200 That somehow became part of the city. 497 00:28:28,200 --> 00:28:33,300 So they couldn't really maintain that very strict, boundary 498 00:28:33,300 --> 00:28:37,300 between camp and the real City. And I think a lot of them other 499 00:28:37,300 --> 00:28:41,300 towns in California Adventure game that I think, eventually 500 00:28:41,300 --> 00:28:45,600 any camp that allowed for what it was possible to have a strong 501 00:28:45,600 --> 00:28:49,700 union movement. It was conditions will improve 502 00:28:50,200 --> 00:28:54,100 you know, so I think even some mining camps but what the union 503 00:28:54,100 --> 00:28:59,700 was a Able to negotiate where was able to somehow act as a 504 00:28:59,708 --> 00:29:03,100 balance to the power. The company there were companies 505 00:29:03,100 --> 00:29:05,700 were there were places where conditions were good. 506 00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,100 I mean, there are still a lot of tension because you were 507 00:29:08,100 --> 00:29:13,400 isolated, but at least people earn a decent salary, they have 508 00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:18,400 right and all kind of stuff. So I think places were there 509 00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:20,600 were more regulation more control. 510 00:29:20,600 --> 00:29:24,200 You eventually have a good motor company town. 511 00:29:24,700 --> 00:29:29,500 Sounds to me like the best case scenario for company towns is 512 00:29:29,500 --> 00:29:32,800 basically where you need to construct a bunch of 513 00:29:32,800 --> 00:29:36,400 infrastructure in some remote, or difficult to access area that 514 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,100 the state would not necessarily be incentivized to create, but 515 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:41,400 the company is because they can extract value. 516 00:29:41,700 --> 00:29:46,000 And then after that, when the laborers are able to get enough 517 00:29:46,000 --> 00:29:50,800 power and influence to protect themselves from the company that 518 00:29:50,800 --> 00:29:52,700 was able to build that infrastructure in the first 519 00:29:52,700 --> 00:29:54,500 place. You think that's in. 520 00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:58,700 Accurate summary of the Dynamics there that seemed are places 521 00:29:58,700 --> 00:30:04,400 where people have power and right and where the company 522 00:30:04,400 --> 00:30:08,800 don't have this absolute control over, people are places that 523 00:30:08,800 --> 00:30:10,900 really have thrived in some ways. 524 00:30:11,300 --> 00:30:16,200 I think also places where environmental regulations are 525 00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:19,200 clear, you know, and I think that, especially when we think 526 00:30:19,200 --> 00:30:22,800 about this possum, that shot out or places or this mining camps 527 00:30:22,800 --> 00:30:24,500 are having software loaded there. 528 00:30:24,700 --> 00:30:28,900 It's just that you need to have a token Force, very strict 529 00:30:28,900 --> 00:30:32,100 environmental regulations of because it's so easy to pollute 530 00:30:32,100 --> 00:30:34,200 and destroy everything when they're far away from 531 00:30:34,200 --> 00:30:36,500 authorities. You know, that nobody's really 532 00:30:36,500 --> 00:30:39,500 seeing what's happening the river or anything like that. 533 00:30:39,800 --> 00:30:44,700 So I think also were there is that clear loss regulate what 534 00:30:44,700 --> 00:30:48,000 the company can do, but in terms of people who are all symptoms 535 00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:51,100 of the natural environment, I keep thinking, now about your 536 00:30:51,100 --> 00:30:56,400 point about like military towns being a A good comparison to a 537 00:30:56,400 --> 00:30:57,900 company Town, even though you're right. 538 00:30:57,900 --> 00:31:00,400 Like, it's not quite the same in terms of Labor. 539 00:31:01,200 --> 00:31:04,600 Being the only like clearly, the government will spend exorbitant 540 00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,400 amount, exorbitant amounts of money, even if they're not 541 00:31:07,400 --> 00:31:11,200 extracting anything or whatever. Like, and I reflect on America 542 00:31:11,200 --> 00:31:13,300 and wall. I think there's things like 543 00:31:13,300 --> 00:31:17,700 college towns, army, bases, and, and, you know, Amazon warehouse 544 00:31:17,700 --> 00:31:22,100 is where a lot of people live nearby and that gets relatively 545 00:31:22,100 --> 00:31:24,500 close to what a company town could be. 546 00:31:25,500 --> 00:31:28,700 I do Wonder. I've spent some time in China. 547 00:31:28,900 --> 00:31:34,300 And I wonder if the closest thing to a company town today is 548 00:31:34,900 --> 00:31:39,500 reminiscent of what's going on in China now, which is where 549 00:31:39,500 --> 00:31:44,500 they will essentially, in places like sinkiang or Tibet. 550 00:31:44,500 --> 00:31:48,600 They will ship people out to start building up infrastructure 551 00:31:48,600 --> 00:31:51,900 in these places that for hundreds, thousands of years, 552 00:31:52,000 --> 00:31:54,500 have not had any real, like we're going. 553 00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:55,400 You know what? We're going to build a 554 00:31:55,400 --> 00:31:58,300 high-speed rail line out there. We're going to build up a bunch 555 00:31:58,300 --> 00:32:01,300 of cities. We're going to not only change. 556 00:32:01,300 --> 00:32:04,900 Like you were saying before like teaching people in Chile to cook 557 00:32:04,900 --> 00:32:07,700 with American food or something. Like you know, what you're all 558 00:32:07,700 --> 00:32:09,300 Han Chinese. Now, you're going to learn how 559 00:32:09,300 --> 00:32:12,500 to cook, Han Chinese food enough of this Weger stuff. 560 00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,100 So I wonder if this is like the closest thing that we currently 561 00:32:16,100 --> 00:32:19,600 have to what a company Town used to be. 562 00:32:20,200 --> 00:32:21,600 I think you're completely, right? 563 00:32:21,700 --> 00:32:24,500 And I think I'm the kind of industrial. 564 00:32:24,700 --> 00:32:28,200 Girl, that you're having in China right now and at the same 565 00:32:28,200 --> 00:32:33,200 time, but I think is the normal secrecy around many of these 566 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:36,300 towns, and also the relationship, the comic a 567 00:32:36,308 --> 00:32:40,700 relation between the Chinese government and private under 568 00:32:40,700 --> 00:32:44,300 private sector. I think it makes many of these 569 00:32:44,300 --> 00:32:47,500 camps are this industrial towns or cities. 570 00:32:47,500 --> 00:32:52,500 It really a very clear case of company towns or didn't order a 571 00:32:52,500 --> 00:32:55,800 new form of company town. I I think you also point out. 572 00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:58,900 And I think that's also interesting for like, is 21st 573 00:32:58,900 --> 00:33:02,400 century new wave of company, towns, maybe of the use of 574 00:33:02,400 --> 00:33:05,600 Migrant workers of this Workforce that you move and this 575 00:33:05,600 --> 00:33:09,400 place from different places and you're throwing another case 576 00:33:09,400 --> 00:33:11,500 there. There's Nursery company thumb, 577 00:33:11,500 --> 00:33:14,600 but it could be similar that are fishing boats. 578 00:33:14,900 --> 00:33:18,500 This largest amount of them are Chinese out that this like 579 00:33:18,500 --> 00:33:21,000 massive bolts that may have 300 400. 580 00:33:21,000 --> 00:33:24,500 People working darf for months and years like around. 581 00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:29,900 Ocean and people leave work either, and the get pay at the 582 00:33:29,900 --> 00:33:32,000 end of trip. And, I mean, it's not the 583 00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:36,100 company town in some ways. But on the other hand, is 584 00:33:36,100 --> 00:33:40,400 another form of providing for almost everything that workers 585 00:33:40,400 --> 00:33:46,300 need in this sort of, a floating Camp around to reassess tractor 586 00:33:46,300 --> 00:33:50,600 resources and also controlling people 24 hours a day. 587 00:33:50,600 --> 00:33:53,400 And I think, I mean, maybe it was extreme cases. 588 00:33:53,400 --> 00:33:56,500 Damn, right here. But it makes you think about new 589 00:33:56,500 --> 00:34:00,400 labor conditions and and an employer's power. 590 00:34:00,600 --> 00:34:02,100 And and what you're talking about right? 591 00:34:02,100 --> 00:34:07,000 There is actually something that is so popular, it like Bennett 592 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:09,900 and I deal mostly with people who were interested in 593 00:34:09,900 --> 00:34:16,100 cryptocurrency and interested in in self sovereignty. 594 00:34:16,300 --> 00:34:19,100 I guess you could put it in quotes, self sovereignty and so 595 00:34:19,100 --> 00:34:22,900 they dream about something like let's build a big platform in 596 00:34:22,900 --> 00:34:24,500 the middle of the ocean and make it our own. 597 00:34:24,500 --> 00:34:27,699 Country and they don't think about any of the stuff you're 598 00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:31,600 talking about right now, which is like and then you have to be 599 00:34:31,600 --> 00:34:35,900 there forever. Like good luck, getting off of 600 00:34:35,900 --> 00:34:41,400 your island country Nation where you guys have your own money and 601 00:34:41,400 --> 00:34:45,600 you have, you know, people in tuvalu and nehru and stuff. 602 00:34:45,600 --> 00:34:47,900 This is a real life struggle for them. 603 00:34:47,900 --> 00:34:52,100 They like can't leave their Island home, even if they want 604 00:34:52,100 --> 00:34:54,400 to write. And I and like I say, it's just 605 00:34:54,500 --> 00:34:57,900 such a it's such a compelling point that it it strikes home 606 00:34:57,900 --> 00:35:01,900 really hard for the the people that we are constantly dealing 607 00:35:01,900 --> 00:35:05,200 with in our everyday lives and that what's going to add their 608 00:35:05,200 --> 00:35:10,200 that the way to understand this new sort of maybe less permanent 609 00:35:10,200 --> 00:35:14,500 camps of this, something more extreme conditions is that fact 610 00:35:14,500 --> 00:35:17,500 that many company towns by the late 20th century? 611 00:35:17,500 --> 00:35:20,800 The stock closing down because it became too expensive. 612 00:35:20,800 --> 00:35:24,000 It was too expensive principal maintain families provide for 613 00:35:24,000 --> 00:35:27,200 school. Send at least her and parks and 614 00:35:27,200 --> 00:35:31,100 hospital and a lot that so many Mining and at the same time they 615 00:35:31,100 --> 00:35:33,400 became too toxic. So you couldn't really help 616 00:35:33,400 --> 00:35:35,700 families. There's so many mining mining 617 00:35:35,700 --> 00:35:40,300 times what they did. They sort of send the families 618 00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,300 the regular City and the start bringing workers for lunch 619 00:35:44,300 --> 00:35:46,300 shift. So it became very common which 620 00:35:46,300 --> 00:35:50,200 is coming their oil industry, but also night has become 621 00:35:50,200 --> 00:35:54,400 another or third like a forest camp and and fish. 622 00:35:54,500 --> 00:35:58,900 Fishing camps is that you bring? Yes male workers usually for 623 00:35:58,900 --> 00:36:02,400 like a week or two weeks. They work them like 12 hours a 624 00:36:02,400 --> 00:36:04,600 day and then they send them back to the city. 625 00:36:04,900 --> 00:36:08,100 So they just maintain them for this very short period of time. 626 00:36:08,100 --> 00:36:11,300 They have a sort of a dormitory or something like that, what 627 00:36:11,300 --> 00:36:14,000 they feed them and give them everything they need. 628 00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:19,500 But then they don't really look after the more kind of community 629 00:36:19,500 --> 00:36:23,200 housing and services that they need if they were really living 630 00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:27,300 there. I think this postmodern cases 631 00:36:27,300 --> 00:36:30,800 are fishing factories floating around the rod and all that kind 632 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:33,500 of stuff. The reflect that shift of how 633 00:36:33,500 --> 00:36:39,100 you just had a short period of time or how you create a subtle 634 00:36:39,100 --> 00:36:40,500 shift, your work for a few months. 635 00:36:40,500 --> 00:36:42,900 Then you go back to your family and things like that. 636 00:36:43,200 --> 00:36:46,600 I guess, my final, my final question for you would just be, 637 00:36:46,800 --> 00:36:49,400 what do you think? I mean, considering you spent a 638 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:54,100 significant amount of time studying company towns and not 639 00:36:54,100 --> 00:36:57,000 just the History, but kind of like the future of them. 640 00:36:57,000 --> 00:37:00,400 Essentially. What do you hope the future for 641 00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:04,000 these kind of Concepts looks like since the presumption is 642 00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:07,500 that they will exist. But also, what do you want 643 00:37:07,500 --> 00:37:09,400 people to take away from their history? 644 00:37:09,500 --> 00:37:13,100 I guess. Well, I think that think about 645 00:37:13,100 --> 00:37:16,900 the future and thinking that just are going to need to 646 00:37:17,300 --> 00:37:20,900 producing remote region. You're still gonna have people 647 00:37:20,900 --> 00:37:24,400 migrating and moving around and then and then you stay. 648 00:37:24,600 --> 00:37:31,900 Have to regulate how private Capital invest and Outland and 649 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,400 do all the cool stuff. So I'm in this one official I 650 00:37:36,400 --> 00:37:40,100 think is Angus back to some of the elements is really thinking 651 00:37:40,100 --> 00:37:41,700 about, right? And regulations. 652 00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,700 So how do we regulate this activities new? 653 00:37:44,700 --> 00:37:48,300 We can obviously lead them to Auto regulate themselves because 654 00:37:48,300 --> 00:37:52,000 it done self-regulate, you know, so you need to have regulations 655 00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:55,600 that are clear. You really need to To let people 656 00:37:55,600 --> 00:37:58,900 to organize, you know through labor unions but also through 657 00:37:58,900 --> 00:38:00,900 neighborhood association or whatever. 658 00:38:00,900 --> 00:38:04,300 It is a place where the community can Thrive and can 659 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:08,100 have a voice, you know, and can negotiate and can decipher to do 660 00:38:08,100 --> 00:38:12,200 with an end or decide what color they want to paint the house or 661 00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,600 whatever they want, you know, so having a space for Community 662 00:38:15,600 --> 00:38:19,500 participation in terms of the workplace labor unions, but 663 00:38:19,500 --> 00:38:22,400 also, I think it's important to have neighborhood association or 664 00:38:22,400 --> 00:38:27,800 some form of And then the third element that I think with any 665 00:38:27,800 --> 00:38:31,900 remote activity or things that were move away from City right 666 00:38:31,900 --> 00:38:33,600 now. We need to think about some of 667 00:38:33,600 --> 00:38:36,200 our mental cost. So where they're moving into the 668 00:38:36,200 --> 00:38:40,900 mill, the Amazon to extract some fruit or whatever they want to 669 00:38:40,900 --> 00:38:44,000 do, or they're going to dig something in the middle of the 670 00:38:44,400 --> 00:38:46,600 Sonora, Desert. We really need to know what 671 00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:50,600 they're doing. So I think the third element 672 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:54,700 needs to be an environmental regulation, which I think, Most 673 00:38:54,700 --> 00:38:58,700 of these companies even if it is a warehouse, you know, the 674 00:38:58,700 --> 00:39:03,200 amount of fuel emissions or whatever that you have sometimes 675 00:39:03,200 --> 00:39:07,800 on these places are dangerous. So I think the environment will 676 00:39:07,800 --> 00:39:10,500 be my third aspect. Well, thank you. 677 00:39:10,500 --> 00:39:14,200 Dr. Angela Vergara. I will if anyone wants to find 678 00:39:14,200 --> 00:39:16,800 you you were you seem to be a little bit active on Twitter. 679 00:39:17,300 --> 00:39:21,200 So I will go ahead and link to your Twitter profile in the 680 00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:26,200 episode. It's at Vergara the RG ARA 681 00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:32,200 underscore and ha Ang Ela. So if anyone wants to find you, 682 00:39:32,200 --> 00:39:34,400 they can find you there. And thank you so much for 683 00:39:34,400 --> 00:39:36,700 joining us. It's been lovely speaking to you 684 00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:39,500 both times, and I feel like I learned a ton each time. 685 00:39:39,500 --> 00:39:42,300 So, thank you now, many thanks was really fun. 686 00:39:42,300 --> 00:39:45,200 Always talking about company towns and thinking about the 687 00:39:45,207 --> 00:39:48,700 future in creative ways of thank you for having me.