1
00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:07,500
Welcome back. 
Everybody, I'm Caspian Sea and I

2
00:00:07,500 --> 00:00:11,000
am here as usual, my partner in 
crime Bennett Tomlin. 

3
00:00:11,300 --> 00:00:15,500
Today, we are going over my 
article that I wrote a few years

4
00:00:15,500 --> 00:00:17,400
ago. 
Now, that is about a time. 

5
00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:20,500
I went to Hong Kong to try to 
find it FedEx and tether, it's 

6
00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:22,500
my favorite story that I've ever
written. 

7
00:00:22,900 --> 00:00:25,800
It's what I love to do the most,
which is go and try to find 

8
00:00:25,800 --> 00:00:28,500
things out on the ground. 
I'm looking forward to talking 

9
00:00:28,500 --> 00:00:31,500
about it and describing it. 
It so Cass. 

10
00:00:31,700 --> 00:00:35,100
Why did you fly to Hong Kong 
looking for bitfenix? 

11
00:00:35,400 --> 00:00:41,400
So bitfenix and tether and their
Associated companies are a 

12
00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,000
global conglomeration of of 
nonsense, right? 

13
00:00:45,000 --> 00:00:47,800
These guys exist in the British 
Virgin Islands, they exist in 

14
00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:51,000
Taiwan, they exist in Hong Kong,
they exist in Switzerland and 

15
00:00:51,000 --> 00:00:57,200
London and a million places, but
the harder we looked you me bit 

16
00:00:57,200 --> 00:01:00,100
for next. 
Eight coin, the more it Has 

17
00:01:00,100 --> 00:01:02,100
revealed that all of these 
companies. 

18
00:01:02,300 --> 00:01:05,500
The one thing they had in common
was that they had an address in 

19
00:01:05,500 --> 00:01:09,800
Hong Kong. 
So my best bet if I was going to

20
00:01:09,800 --> 00:01:14,100
try to find them, was to go to 
the place where all of their 

21
00:01:14,100 --> 00:01:17,900
offices existed, I don't know if
it's important to explain to 

22
00:01:17,900 --> 00:01:22,300
people what tether and bitfenix 
mean to me and you and us, it 

23
00:01:22,300 --> 00:01:26,300
started us on this Venture into 
cryptocurrency and fraud and 

24
00:01:26,300 --> 00:01:31,200
scams and exit scams and hacks. 
They are Why I'm so obsessed 

25
00:01:31,200 --> 00:01:33,100
with this. 
Now tether is a 60 billion 

26
00:01:33,100 --> 00:01:36,100
dollar, stable coin now. 
And bitfenix is one of the 

27
00:01:36,200 --> 00:01:39,300
exchange leaders. 
It's dropped off big big time 

28
00:01:39,300 --> 00:01:42,300
over the past several years, but
it's one of the bigger exchanges

29
00:01:42,300 --> 00:01:46,400
and I just wanted to find them. 
That's the shorter answer. 

30
00:01:46,800 --> 00:01:51,300
So you fly to Hong Kong looking 
for these incredibly important 

31
00:01:51,300 --> 00:01:53,600
companies to the cryptocurrency 
space. 

32
00:01:53,700 --> 00:01:57,100
You head off. 
First looking for the offices of

33
00:01:57,100 --> 00:01:58,800
I Phenix. 
One of the companies that 

34
00:01:58,800 --> 00:02:01,900
operates the bitfenix. 
Platform and of course you found

35
00:02:01,900 --> 00:02:03,800
it. 
Well staffed by competent 

36
00:02:03,800 --> 00:02:06,500
professionals who are running a 
massive exchange of course. 

37
00:02:08,699 --> 00:02:13,500
Yeah, the first place that my 
friend and I Griff went to was a

38
00:02:13,500 --> 00:02:18,400
place in a very well-known Tower
in Hong Kong called the Bank of 

39
00:02:18,400 --> 00:02:21,200
America tower. 
It's this very central location,

40
00:02:21,800 --> 00:02:26,800
within the financial district of
Hong Kong a bunch of walkways 

41
00:02:27,200 --> 00:02:31,500
flow into and out of it. 
It's just A hub of activity. 

42
00:02:31,500 --> 00:02:35,300
During the normal work day, it 
was really easy for us to get 

43
00:02:35,300 --> 00:02:38,900
past all the guards and we went 
to the appropriate floor and 

44
00:02:38,900 --> 00:02:40,100
when we got there. 
Yeah. 

45
00:02:40,100 --> 00:02:43,200
No it wasn't professionals. 
It was a construction site. 

46
00:02:43,300 --> 00:02:46,000
There was no one there and that 
was it. 

47
00:02:46,400 --> 00:02:49,500
Well, I'm sure when you headed 
out to one of their other 

48
00:02:49,500 --> 00:02:53,000
addresses to find like we're bit
for next technology was 

49
00:02:53,000 --> 00:02:54,300
headquartered. 
Of course, they are. 

50
00:02:54,300 --> 00:02:58,700
You would find the expected like
JL V, DV the CEO of bitfenix had

51
00:02:58,700 --> 00:03:02,400
to be in the office when you 
went to That out to be honest by

52
00:03:02,400 --> 00:03:05,900
this time, I was I went to Hong 
Kong under the suspicion that I 

53
00:03:05,900 --> 00:03:09,500
wasn't going to find anything. 
So I was pretty sure that I 

54
00:03:09,508 --> 00:03:13,200
would walk away empty-handed. 
I wasn't very concerned that I 

55
00:03:13,200 --> 00:03:16,600
would actually StumbleUpon 
anything until my friend Griffin

56
00:03:16,600 --> 00:03:19,400
was like, so what are you going 
to ask them if they're there and

57
00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:23,400
it just dawned on me like oh 
man, I don't know what I'm going

58
00:03:23,400 --> 00:03:25,500
to ask and I don't even know how
I'm going to react if we 

59
00:03:25,500 --> 00:03:28,400
actually stumble into bitfenix 
headquarters. 

60
00:03:28,700 --> 00:03:31,600
Thankfully that's not what we 
Old into what we found on the 

61
00:03:31,600 --> 00:03:36,100
other side of the door for J & K
Holdings Limited. 

62
00:03:36,100 --> 00:03:41,500
I think was the name of the 
company was to Chinese women who

63
00:03:41,800 --> 00:03:45,200
knew English. 
And when I asked them, if anyone

64
00:03:45,200 --> 00:03:48,200
worked there from bitfenix, if 
anyone worked there from tether,

65
00:03:48,300 --> 00:03:50,300
she said, no. 
And then I asked if they worked 

66
00:03:50,300 --> 00:03:53,500
with them and she said, they 
send us paperwork from time to 

67
00:03:53,500 --> 00:03:55,000
time. 
This certainly was not the 

68
00:03:55,008 --> 00:03:58,500
place. 
If you were say a customer who 

69
00:03:58,500 --> 00:04:00,800
feels like you've gotten 
screwed, And need your support 

70
00:04:00,800 --> 00:04:03,100
ticket answered. 
It is not the place you would go

71
00:04:03,100 --> 00:04:05,300
to. 
Okay, fine. 

72
00:04:05,300 --> 00:04:09,300
So bitfenix doesn't have any 
offices in Hong Kong, and you've

73
00:04:09,300 --> 00:04:11,700
checked out these two buildings 
already, but there was, of 

74
00:04:11,700 --> 00:04:15,200
course, the third address for 
tether and you had to finish out

75
00:04:15,200 --> 00:04:18,100
the loop and that one was 
surprising. 

76
00:04:19,899 --> 00:04:23,800
Well, yeah, it wasn't, but it 
was a beautiful building. 

77
00:04:23,800 --> 00:04:29,700
It was this 1980s kind of chic 
Marine, green, blue building. 

78
00:04:29,900 --> 00:04:34,600
And there was a guard Manning 
the station, and he asked us 

79
00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:36,800
questions before he let us 
through and it just felt like, 

80
00:04:36,800 --> 00:04:40,300
oh man, maybe this could 
actually be the place, but when 

81
00:04:40,300 --> 00:04:44,100
we got up there, the woman made 
it clear that she was 

82
00:04:44,100 --> 00:04:48,400
uncomfortable with the questions
that I was proposing and the 

83
00:04:48,400 --> 00:04:50,800
more I tried to ask. 
So I started with the same kind 

84
00:04:50,800 --> 00:04:52,600
of questions, like, is this 
tether headquarters? 

85
00:04:52,600 --> 00:04:54,000
It's listed as tether 
headquarters. 

86
00:04:54,000 --> 00:04:55,000
No. 
Okay. 

87
00:04:55,000 --> 00:04:57,200
Have you ever worked with 
Heather? 

88
00:04:57,200 --> 00:05:01,000
And it became these kind of 
awkward pauses of like Um, 

89
00:05:01,500 --> 00:05:04,400
they're not here. 
I wasn't sure. 

90
00:05:04,700 --> 00:05:07,300
It felt like she knew more than 
she was letting on but I don't 

91
00:05:07,300 --> 00:05:09,100
know what that means. 
It certainly wasn't the tether 

92
00:05:09,100 --> 00:05:13,700
headquarters and so this one 
would have been the sign that 

93
00:05:13,700 --> 00:05:16,700
said proxy management, 
Consultants limited. 

94
00:05:16,700 --> 00:05:18,800
So let's talk about now for 
people. 

95
00:05:18,800 --> 00:05:22,100
Why does bitfenix into other 
have so many addresses yet? 

96
00:05:22,100 --> 00:05:24,700
No, employees at any of them? 
Yeah. 

97
00:05:24,700 --> 00:05:27,600
Well these aren't these 
obviously aren't branches or 

98
00:05:27,600 --> 00:05:32,500
headquarters what these all are.
Are the Hong Kong version of a 

99
00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:37,900
p.o. box where you have these 
people accepting mail on behalf 

100
00:05:37,900 --> 00:05:40,400
of you? 
The business has incorporated on

101
00:05:40,400 --> 00:05:43,600
behalf of you. 
You can skirt a lot of rules and

102
00:05:43,600 --> 00:05:46,500
regulations in Hong Kong. 
There's a lot of places like 

103
00:05:46,500 --> 00:05:50,700
this, and you'll see it's a 
common occurrence in corporate 

104
00:05:50,700 --> 00:05:54,000
culture in general, but I think 
it's extra common. 

105
00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:57,800
When it comes to cryptocurrency 
and we do see them do very 

106
00:05:57,800 --> 00:06:01,500
specific, things like they are. 
Often located in British Virgin 

107
00:06:01,500 --> 00:06:04,700
Islands. 
The Caymans Panama places that 

108
00:06:04,700 --> 00:06:09,600
are known for being shelters for
money laundering and tax Haven 

109
00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:13,000
tax evasion Havens. 
All these addresses, you went to

110
00:06:13,000 --> 00:06:16,000
check out. 
We're never really bitfenix 

111
00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:19,200
offices or addresses or places 
of business in any meaningful 

112
00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,300
sense in the same way that 
coinbase is not headquartered in

113
00:06:23,300 --> 00:06:26,600
Delaware, where their 
corporation was created, but the

114
00:06:26,600 --> 00:06:29,300
opposite while coin basis, 
suggesting they don't have a 

115
00:06:29,308 --> 00:06:30,200
headquarters. 
Ders. 

116
00:06:30,200 --> 00:06:34,000
The reality is that if there's 
an exit scam and all of the 

117
00:06:34,000 --> 00:06:37,900
funds on coinbase disappear, 
everyone knows they can go to 

118
00:06:37,900 --> 00:06:41,300
San Francisco where all of the 
employees for coinbase who 

119
00:06:41,300 --> 00:06:45,100
aren't remote work. 
So the idea that there isn't a 

120
00:06:45,100 --> 00:06:48,100
headquarters for coinbase, 
that's booked it man and the 

121
00:06:48,100 --> 00:06:50,500
same for any of these things. 
Like, if Gemini exit scam 

122
00:06:50,500 --> 00:06:52,800
tomorrow, you can go to New 
York. 

123
00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,000
Go find me. 
Fitbit for necks and tether. 

124
00:06:55,200 --> 00:06:56,500
They walk away with all of your 
money. 

125
00:06:56,500 --> 00:06:58,700
Where you going? 
How are you getting it back? 

126
00:06:59,300 --> 00:07:04,200
I mean, We'd probably have to go
somewhere in jails probably 

127
00:07:04,200 --> 00:07:07,300
still over in what Hong Kong or 
Singapore. 

128
00:07:07,300 --> 00:07:12,300
Juan Carlos somewhere in France.
Maybe Paulo might be in France 

129
00:07:12,300 --> 00:07:14,600
or in Italy. 
I honestly don't even know where

130
00:07:14,600 --> 00:07:17,000
they are and I followed the 
stuff obsessively. 

131
00:07:17,000 --> 00:07:17,600
Yeah. 
Yeah. 

132
00:07:17,600 --> 00:07:20,000
Which is wild. 
These are these are the 

133
00:07:20,000 --> 00:07:24,100
executives of the, some of the 
largest cryptocurrency companies

134
00:07:24,100 --> 00:07:26,800
in the world and people just 
don't even know where they 

135
00:07:26,800 --> 00:07:28,700
exist. 
At the end of the day, you know,

136
00:07:28,700 --> 00:07:31,300
they argued that Matter. 
And I guess there's a truth to 

137
00:07:31,300 --> 00:07:33,700
that because there is no 
headquarters, there's no place 

138
00:07:33,700 --> 00:07:36,300
to go and love level a complaint
against them. 

139
00:07:36,300 --> 00:07:39,400
I guess you can bring a lawsuit 
in the British Virgin Islands. 

140
00:07:39,500 --> 00:07:43,300
Everything is purposely opaque. 
Yeah. 

141
00:07:43,300 --> 00:07:46,000
And we've talked about this 
before about how a lot of 

142
00:07:46,000 --> 00:07:49,400
cryptocurrency businesses rely 
on this kind of almost 

143
00:07:49,400 --> 00:07:53,600
regulatory obscurity and 
Arbitrage, where they're trying 

144
00:07:53,600 --> 00:07:55,800
to set up different parts of 
their business. 

145
00:07:55,800 --> 00:07:58,900
Through these various thin shell
companies across as many 

146
00:07:58,900 --> 00:08:02,800
jurisdictions as One to make it 
hard to bring a suit to to take 

147
00:08:02,800 --> 00:08:04,400
advantage of any little 
Advantage. 

148
00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,900
They can get in those places and
three, because they don't want a

149
00:08:07,900 --> 00:08:11,000
single place where you can point
to and say that's bitfenix, 

150
00:08:11,000 --> 00:08:14,200
that's coinbase. 
That's whoever which obviously, 

151
00:08:14,200 --> 00:08:17,000
I like for some company, like, 
coin based that just doesn't 

152
00:08:17,000 --> 00:08:23,200
work, but when you're buying 
ants and CD is obviously King, 

153
00:08:23,600 --> 00:08:26,400
you can say there's no offices 
or headquarters, but I guess if 

154
00:08:26,400 --> 00:08:28,900
they just catch CZ that kind of,
does it, doesn't it? 

155
00:08:30,100 --> 00:08:31,700
Yeah, it's easy gets 
compromised. 

156
00:08:31,700 --> 00:08:35,400
I can't imagine finances in a 
great position which is 

157
00:08:35,500 --> 00:08:39,600
honestly, probably part of the 
reason why jlb TV maintains such

158
00:08:39,600 --> 00:08:43,900
a low profile because he does 
live in a politically 

159
00:08:43,900 --> 00:08:48,300
contentious area with rapidly 
changing rules and regulations, 

160
00:08:48,300 --> 00:08:51,000
surrounding finance and 
cryptocurrencies in general. 

161
00:08:51,200 --> 00:08:54,000
So it's probably to his 
advantage that he's very rarely 

162
00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:57,400
seen in public and almost never 
makes statements or things like 

163
00:08:57,400 --> 00:08:58,900
that. 
Yeah. 

164
00:08:58,900 --> 00:09:02,700
And I don't know. 
One Carlos deal, is he used to 

165
00:09:02,700 --> 00:09:05,700
be heard from all the time to 
like, one Carlo used to be the 

166
00:09:05,700 --> 00:09:07,700
customer support on bitcoin 
talk. 

167
00:09:07,700 --> 00:09:10,500
It would only sometimes call his
customers morons. 

168
00:09:10,900 --> 00:09:15,600
I think it's all just trying to 
craft a narrative that bitfenix 

169
00:09:15,600 --> 00:09:18,300
in tether are a modern financial
company. 

170
00:09:18,300 --> 00:09:22,100
The idea of having an office 
full of employees is last 

171
00:09:22,100 --> 00:09:24,700
century. 
We can be so much more efficient

172
00:09:24,700 --> 00:09:28,300
by recruiting around the globe 
for the best possible talent. 

173
00:09:28,400 --> 00:09:29,900
And so they create this story. 
Right. 

174
00:09:29,900 --> 00:09:31,800
That this is the best way to run
their business. 

175
00:09:31,900 --> 00:09:34,200
When in reality the reason 
they're doing this way is so 

176
00:09:34,200 --> 00:09:36,900
they can set up these different 
shell corporations so they can 

177
00:09:36,900 --> 00:09:40,400
take advantage of these 
different regulations and try to

178
00:09:40,400 --> 00:09:43,300
enact that. 
And so the story they're telling

179
00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:46,600
the narrative about 
decentralization is both. 

180
00:09:47,300 --> 00:09:49,800
It's meant to cover up. 
The fact that they're trying to 

181
00:09:49,800 --> 00:09:53,000
take advantage of looser 
Financial regulations without 

182
00:09:53,000 --> 00:09:57,100
something like the Panama papers
in a crypto form or something. 

183
00:09:57,500 --> 00:10:00,100
I just don't know how you put a 
stop to that because These 

184
00:10:00,100 --> 00:10:05,300
people can churn up a hundred 
different shell corporations and

185
00:10:05,300 --> 00:10:09,600
dissolve them the next week and 
we would it would take us years 

186
00:10:09,600 --> 00:10:11,500
to catch up. 
Yeah, it does. 

187
00:10:11,500 --> 00:10:14,000
That was part of the way crypto 
Capital core survived. 

188
00:10:14,000 --> 00:10:17,200
As long as it did is they just 
kept creating new shell 

189
00:10:17,200 --> 00:10:20,000
corporations and they were 
willing to continually lie to 

190
00:10:20,000 --> 00:10:22,300
Banks and say, what do you mean 
this is a real estate company. 

191
00:10:22,500 --> 00:10:24,200
What do you mean? 
This is a mining company. 

192
00:10:24,400 --> 00:10:26,500
Sure, these transactions look 
like they're from crypto 

193
00:10:26,500 --> 00:10:29,100
currency exchanges, but we're 
real estate company owned. 

194
00:10:29,100 --> 00:10:30,200
Oh, there goes that. 
Account. 

195
00:10:30,200 --> 00:10:33,300
Luckily we've got two more. 
We started this week and there's

196
00:10:33,300 --> 00:10:35,100
always going to be somebody 
who's willing to do that for 

197
00:10:35,100 --> 00:10:36,400
them. 
And there's, we've talked about 

198
00:10:36,400 --> 00:10:38,700
ways to shut down tether and 
bitfenix before. 

199
00:10:38,700 --> 00:10:42,100
So we don't need to rehash that,
but I do think that offshore 

200
00:10:42,100 --> 00:10:47,400
incorporation and Offshore 
Banking is probably more useful 

201
00:10:47,400 --> 00:10:51,300
and more dangerous for criminals
than cryptocurrency. 

202
00:10:51,400 --> 00:10:56,200
Could possibly ever be? 
It's less easily, traceable. 

203
00:10:56,200 --> 00:10:58,100
Then like, the major 
cryptocurrencies, right? 

204
00:10:58,200 --> 00:11:01,300
Like you and I have tracked me 
You're important events on the 

205
00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:03,500
Bitcoin, in the theory and black
Jean and we could see them 

206
00:11:03,500 --> 00:11:06,300
happening because you can see 
the transactions, you shovel 

207
00:11:06,300 --> 00:11:09,300
money through three shell 
corporations across four across 

208
00:11:09,300 --> 00:11:12,600
three different countries. 
Several different banks, we lose

209
00:11:12,600 --> 00:11:15,200
the ability to track that to 
have any insight into that and 

210
00:11:15,200 --> 00:11:18,100
you need subpoena power and you 
need subpoena power across 

211
00:11:18,100 --> 00:11:20,200
multiple jurisdictions. 
Yeah. 

212
00:11:20,200 --> 00:11:22,700
I mean I even the Enron guy Loop
hi. 

213
00:11:22,800 --> 00:11:25,200
Who's one of the only ones who 
didn't get charged? 

214
00:11:25,300 --> 00:11:29,000
I've been looking into him and 
he has the loop High foundation 

215
00:11:29,100 --> 00:11:34,600
in Isis, which I can't legally 
acquire any information about a 

216
00:11:34,600 --> 00:11:38,800
501 c 3, there's no way for me 
to acquire how much money gets 

217
00:11:38,800 --> 00:11:43,600
donated to them every year by 
whom and for what, but it is a 

218
00:11:43,800 --> 00:11:48,400
registered charity and 
foundation and it is 501, c 3, 

219
00:11:48,500 --> 00:11:50,600
which is just, that's America, 
man. 

220
00:11:50,700 --> 00:11:55,000
You don't have to go across the 
globe to find the exact kind of 

221
00:11:55,000 --> 00:11:58,300
thing that's happening. 
Now, that's happening before in 

222
00:11:58,300 --> 00:12:01,900
Hong Kong and And British Virgin
Islands happening. 

223
00:12:01,900 --> 00:12:08,000
Now in places like Nevada and 
Delaware Montana Texas, Wyoming,

224
00:12:08,000 --> 00:12:09,500
right? 
All of these places. 

225
00:12:09,500 --> 00:12:16,100
Now are actually adopting the 
system of offshore incorporation

226
00:12:16,100 --> 00:12:19,000
and Offshore Banking. 
While it's not obviously 

227
00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:22,900
offshore, I'm just saying it's 
like yeah, it just changes the 

228
00:12:22,900 --> 00:12:27,800
dynamic fully individuals can 
choose whether or not they went 

229
00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:31,000
to provide money. 
Me or whatever to corporations 

230
00:12:31,000 --> 00:12:33,500
that use these kind of 
techniques but shell 

231
00:12:33,500 --> 00:12:36,500
corporations and using stuff 
like that to launder. 

232
00:12:36,500 --> 00:12:41,000
Money is still an effective 
tactic used by criminals and 

233
00:12:41,000 --> 00:12:43,900
yeah and a lot of the stuff you 
go in there and all of these 

234
00:12:43,900 --> 00:12:47,100
companies are dissolved in gone.
You can follow these guys only 

235
00:12:47,100 --> 00:12:53,200
as long as the trail is hot and 
as soon as it goes even I'll 

236
00:12:53,200 --> 00:12:55,800
never forget. 
That reviewed Yosef thing where 

237
00:12:55,800 --> 00:12:59,600
I tracked her and stupidly 
announced it that I was tracking

238
00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,300
Her in Israel. 
And then I lost the trail 

239
00:13:02,300 --> 00:13:03,600
because I spoke about it 
publicly. 

240
00:13:03,600 --> 00:13:07,300
So I think it's really easy for 
researchers and journalists and 

241
00:13:07,300 --> 00:13:11,200
writers to be looking into 
something, be right there and 

242
00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:17,100
feel like you're so close to 
seeing how the ugly underbelly 

243
00:13:17,500 --> 00:13:21,100
of these industries work. 
And I think crypto is just like 

244
00:13:21,100 --> 00:13:25,200
so entwined with offshore 
incorporation and Offshore 

245
00:13:25,200 --> 00:13:30,300
Banking that underbelly is much 
even see deer than See, and it 

246
00:13:30,300 --> 00:13:35,400
has been really eye-opening for 
me my first time really looking 

247
00:13:35,400 --> 00:13:39,000
into the Panama papers in the 
paradise papers was when we were

248
00:13:39,000 --> 00:13:42,900
first looking into bitfenix in 
tether, and we saw that Phil 

249
00:13:42,900 --> 00:13:45,500
Potter and Juan Carlo and all 
the Incorporated. 

250
00:13:45,500 --> 00:13:49,400
Both of these two companies down
there, and it sits with me that 

251
00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,600
there's a whole bunch of 
information that you, and I 

252
00:13:51,600 --> 00:13:55,000
specifically have learned from 
those documents about crypto 

253
00:13:55,000 --> 00:13:57,800
Capital core about bitfenix 
about tether about these 

254
00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:02,100
important multi-billion. 
Other entities that we would not

255
00:14:02,100 --> 00:14:05,500
have known if the most active, 
on sake of papers, and the app 

256
00:14:05,500 --> 00:14:07,700
will be papers. 
Hadn't been leaked the Panama 

257
00:14:07,700 --> 00:14:09,500
Paradise, papers hadn't come 
out. 

258
00:14:09,900 --> 00:14:11,800
People don't understand this. 
I think it's true. 

259
00:14:11,800 --> 00:14:15,200
People have no idea that to find
out information on a Bahamas, 

260
00:14:15,200 --> 00:14:19,000
based company or a British 
Virgin Islands based company, 

261
00:14:19,300 --> 00:14:21,200
you have to pay money. 
Like you have to pay a 

262
00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:25,200
significant chunk of change. 
So these places make it so that 

263
00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:30,300
journalists and researchers and 
armchair detectives like Can't 

264
00:14:30,300 --> 00:14:33,900
possibly afford to actually find
out all the information on your 

265
00:14:33,900 --> 00:14:36,200
company and it's all of them. 
It's Singapore. 

266
00:14:36,300 --> 00:14:39,100
It's British Virgin Islands its 
Puerto Rican like it's all of 

267
00:14:39,108 --> 00:14:41,500
them they do this on purpose. 
Yeah. 

268
00:14:41,900 --> 00:14:43,200
Hong Kong is a little bit 
better. 

269
00:14:43,300 --> 00:14:45,600
I've bought from Hong Kong 
before and there's her at least 

270
00:14:45,600 --> 00:14:48,300
a lot cheaper than British 
Virgin Islands, but you do need 

271
00:14:48,300 --> 00:14:50,900
to call up your credit card 
company first and go. 

272
00:14:50,900 --> 00:14:54,200
Hey I'm about to be processing 
several somewhat small 

273
00:14:54,200 --> 00:14:57,100
transactions. 
To this weird Hong kong-based 

274
00:14:57,200 --> 00:14:59,600
credit card processing company. 
That's intentional. 

275
00:14:59,700 --> 00:15:02,600
Don't freeze my card just as an 
aside. 

276
00:15:02,700 --> 00:15:05,400
Yeah, hopefully there's some I 
think armchair armchair 

277
00:15:05,400 --> 00:15:09,000
detectives can often provide a 
good resource even for 

278
00:15:09,000 --> 00:15:12,200
professionals, I think if you 
stumble upon something that's 

279
00:15:12,200 --> 00:15:16,100
really beautiful and amazing and
it blows your mind, there's 

280
00:15:16,100 --> 00:15:18,100
nothing wrong with trying to 
share that with the right. 

281
00:15:18,100 --> 00:15:21,600
People who might be able to 
utilize it in a bigger way than 

282
00:15:21,600 --> 00:15:26,000
you or help you try to surface 
more information about it. 

283
00:15:26,100 --> 00:15:29,300
It can also be very dangerous. 
So like I want people to do that

284
00:15:29,300 --> 00:15:31,500
kind of Fact-checking. 
Like if you stumble upon some 

285
00:15:31,500 --> 00:15:35,100
Hong Kong company that you think
might be connected to something 

286
00:15:35,100 --> 00:15:39,200
that you're fascinated in. 
Don't just say it, is that you 

287
00:15:39,200 --> 00:15:43,400
have to take the time if you 
don't have the cash, save up the

288
00:15:43,400 --> 00:15:46,600
cash to order those documents. 
Like I people need to start 

289
00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,700
incorporating those own 
journalistic, Discretions into 

290
00:15:49,700 --> 00:15:52,800
how they decipher what reality 
is. 

291
00:15:53,500 --> 00:15:56,100
I certainly agree and I think 
that's that's how you. 

292
00:15:56,100 --> 00:15:59,600
And I generally try and think 
when we find facts will try to 

293
00:15:59,700 --> 00:16:03,100
Sit verify it check into these 
things at least a little bit and

294
00:16:03,100 --> 00:16:06,200
that's helped us. 
Then discover even more things 

295
00:16:06,200 --> 00:16:10,000
about the. 
Yeah, people try to rush out in 

296
00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,700
article as fast as possible 
because crypto currency moves 

297
00:16:13,000 --> 00:16:16,200
stupid fast way faster than any 
other industry I've ever seen. 

298
00:16:16,300 --> 00:16:19,700
And sometimes it helps to not 
have to be the one that's 

299
00:16:19,700 --> 00:16:22,600
breaking it. 
And if you can take the time to 

300
00:16:22,600 --> 00:16:26,600
do a much deeper dive, that is 
actually going to be a much more

301
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,500
valuable resource than the 
breaking news. 

302
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:33,200
A lot of the time, that's 
generally My Philosophy. 

303
00:16:33,300 --> 00:16:36,800
I assume I'm not good enough to 
be the fastest, so I should 

304
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:39,000
spend a little bit of extra time
and make it better. 

305
00:16:39,300 --> 00:16:41,500
Totally agree. 
And I work this, I work the same

306
00:16:41,500 --> 00:16:44,600
exact way as you. 
It's best to take those longer 

307
00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:48,200
form deep, Dives, just examine 
really what's going on 

308
00:16:48,200 --> 00:16:50,900
especially because there are 
people with the resources and 

309
00:16:50,900 --> 00:16:53,800
connections, who can kind of 
verify some of the stuff a lot 

310
00:16:53,800 --> 00:16:57,200
faster than we possibly could 
write or it could at least 

311
00:16:57,200 --> 00:17:00,600
verify it to the degree. 
They think it's Yeah, there's 

312
00:17:00,600 --> 00:17:02,800
certainly people with the 
network to understand this 

313
00:17:02,800 --> 00:17:07,099
Nuance. 
So we started with talking about

314
00:17:07,099 --> 00:17:10,400
why you wanted to go and see if 
it connects into other of 

315
00:17:10,400 --> 00:17:12,900
offices. 
We've discussed why these 

316
00:17:12,900 --> 00:17:16,099
corporations both in 
cryptocurrency and more broadly 

317
00:17:16,099 --> 00:17:18,599
in the world of Shadow and 
criminal Finance. 

318
00:17:18,599 --> 00:17:21,599
Use these type of Corporations. 
Do you have any other closing 

319
00:17:21,599 --> 00:17:23,200
thoughts? 
Yeah. 

320
00:17:23,200 --> 00:17:27,800
I think that there's a huge 
value to on the ground 

321
00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:31,400
journalism and journalism. 
Lists or not journalists going 

322
00:17:31,400 --> 00:17:34,900
out, reporting on stuff and 
doing their best to report it in

323
00:17:35,100 --> 00:17:38,700
the most professional manner as 
possible because we live in such

324
00:17:38,700 --> 00:17:41,400
an online world. 
Now that yeah, like a lot of the

325
00:17:41,400 --> 00:17:44,700
reporting can be done by just 
thoroughly, reading a court 

326
00:17:44,700 --> 00:17:49,500
document or going on open 
corporates and trying to shuffle

327
00:17:49,500 --> 00:17:53,500
through names and officers and 
corporate entities. 

328
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:58,700
No doubt most research. 
Nowadays doesn't need to be on 

329
00:17:58,700 --> 00:18:01,700
the ground. 
But I think there's a huge value

330
00:18:01,700 --> 00:18:05,000
to that, especially since covid 
and all this other kit that 

331
00:18:05,000 --> 00:18:06,200
we've dealt with, for the past 
year. 

332
00:18:06,200 --> 00:18:09,800
I think that has largely been 
ignored and that it's time to 

333
00:18:09,800 --> 00:18:13,800
bring that back, especially with
cryptocurrency where you have 

334
00:18:13,800 --> 00:18:17,800
billionaires refusing to be 
identified as like citizens of a

335
00:18:17,800 --> 00:18:20,300
country. 
And we need people actually 

336
00:18:20,300 --> 00:18:24,400
fact-checking others and going 
and trying to find out what the 

337
00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,300
fuck is going on. 
I think that's a good place to 

338
00:18:27,300 --> 00:18:29,400
end it. 
All right, on that note. 

339
00:18:29,600 --> 00:18:31,400
Note. 
Join us next time when we 

340
00:18:31,400 --> 00:18:32,500
discuss. 
Who knows? 

341
00:18:32,500 --> 00:18:33,700
What? 
Probably some other 

342
00:18:33,700 --> 00:18:37,400
cryptocurrency fraud or scammer 
will talk to you guys soon. 

343
00:18:37,400 --> 00:18:30,000
Thanks for listening. 
Note. 

344
00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:31,800
Join us next time when we 
discuss. 

345
00:18:31,800 --> 00:18:32,800
Who knows? 
What? 

346
00:18:32,800 --> 00:18:36,200
Probably some other 
cryptocurrency fraud or scammer 

347
00:18:36,400 --> 00:18:38,200
will talk to you guys soon. 
Thanks for listening.