1 00:00:05,100 --> 00:00:07,900 Welcome back everyone. I am Caspian Sea. 2 00:00:07,900 --> 00:00:10,300 I'm joined as usual by my partner in crime. 3 00:00:10,400 --> 00:00:12,000 Mr. Bennett Tomlin, how are you today? 4 00:00:12,100 --> 00:00:14,600 I'm exhausted. It's been a busy few days. 5 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:18,100 It's been a busy week plus four for both of us. 6 00:00:18,100 --> 00:00:20,500 I think we should start just by talking about what we've been 7 00:00:20,500 --> 00:00:23,800 busy with. So what you and I both went to 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:27,200 this past week was consensus, which if you're unfamiliar with 9 00:00:27,200 --> 00:00:30,400 consensus it is I believe this is still true. 10 00:00:30,400 --> 00:00:34,700 The Largest cryptocurrency related conference in the world 11 00:00:35,300 --> 00:00:39,000 and it's hosted by coin desk. And yeah this was our first time 12 00:00:39,000 --> 00:00:41,600 going to it it's been going on for a long time. 13 00:00:41,600 --> 00:00:45,500 How long, 20, 2016 2015? I don't know, maybe even at 14 00:00:45,500 --> 00:00:50,300 least 2015, it might have started even before then because 15 00:00:50,400 --> 00:00:54,100 the wing disc, this was Quinn, Des 10th year, but it wasn't 16 00:00:54,100 --> 00:00:56,000 consensus its 10th year. So I think it might have been 17 00:00:56,000 --> 00:00:58,800 like 2015. So yeah, this is a big deal to 18 00:00:58,800 --> 00:01:01,900 the Crypt. Currency industry. 19 00:01:02,700 --> 00:01:04,300 And it was our first time going there Bennett. 20 00:01:04,300 --> 00:01:07,700 You got there before I did. Why don't you talk about the the 21 00:01:07,700 --> 00:01:10,400 first day at consensus for you sure? 22 00:01:10,400 --> 00:01:13,800 Which was actually the second day of consensus, I made it in 23 00:01:13,800 --> 00:01:17,000 on Wednesday afternoon, but I'd been up since like 3 a.m. in the 24 00:01:17,000 --> 00:01:21,500 morning and just could not bear walking into a conventional full 25 00:01:21,500 --> 00:01:23,800 of cryptocurrency. People, it would have put me 26 00:01:23,800 --> 00:01:26,900 right over the edge. And so instead, I came in on 27 00:01:26,900 --> 00:01:31,000 Thursday morning and set through quite a few sessions that Day 28 00:01:31,100 --> 00:01:34,600 trying to get an understanding of what this is like, and it is 29 00:01:34,700 --> 00:01:39,000 an utterly strange experience. Like, as I was walking into 30 00:01:39,000 --> 00:01:41,400 consensus, I had two pieces of paper. 31 00:01:41,400 --> 00:01:45,000 Shoved into my hand. One was a card, Donna wallet, 32 00:01:45,000 --> 00:01:49,600 full of a dog themed shit coin called husky, presumably named 33 00:01:49,600 --> 00:01:53,600 after, Charles hoskinson, who only, sometimes pretends to be 34 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:56,900 Satoshi Nakamoto and the other piece of paper was for a 35 00:01:56,900 --> 00:02:00,500 multi-chain event headlined by been. 36 00:02:00,800 --> 00:02:04,700 Also known as B boy, you get past that through the metal 37 00:02:04,700 --> 00:02:06,900 detectors and finally into the exhibition Hall. 38 00:02:07,100 --> 00:02:10,600 And the very first thing you see is a protocol advertise, a 39 00:02:10,600 --> 00:02:14,700 product advertising, how their proof of SQL is going to 40 00:02:14,700 --> 00:02:19,400 revolutionize cryptocurrency, if you finally push back there and 41 00:02:19,400 --> 00:02:22,000 through the rest of the booths that are similarly ridiculous, 42 00:02:22,000 --> 00:02:24,800 you can make your way to the stages and the very first 43 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:28,100 session I decided to see was one entitled, remember why? 44 00:02:28,100 --> 00:02:32,800 We're here kryptos true purpose. This was led by Michael Casey of 45 00:02:32,800 --> 00:02:36,500 coin desk and included Erik Voorhees of shape-shift Neha, 46 00:02:36,500 --> 00:02:39,500 narula of the digital currency initiative, out of the MIT media 47 00:02:39,500 --> 00:02:43,100 lab and Caitlin Long of custodian bank, and it was a 48 00:02:43,100 --> 00:02:46,500 disaster. Mia had to fact-check both 49 00:02:46,500 --> 00:02:49,600 Caitlin Long and Erik Voorhees during the session of it 50 00:02:49,700 --> 00:02:51,700 Caitlyn. Because she said right now, 51 00:02:51,700 --> 00:02:54,400 eight billion people could download, lightning software and 52 00:02:54,400 --> 00:02:58,200 start transacting and fee it back by SATs and he had to go 53 00:02:58,400 --> 00:03:00,500 know the network cannot handle that. 54 00:03:00,600 --> 00:03:02,500 We cannot on board that many users. 55 00:03:02,500 --> 00:03:04,200 We cannot open that many channels. 56 00:03:04,200 --> 00:03:09,600 That's not how this works. People in the world could 57 00:03:09,600 --> 00:03:14,300 download the lightning Network software and start transacting 58 00:03:14,300 --> 00:03:17,600 in Fiat currencies. That are collateralized my SATs 59 00:03:18,600 --> 00:03:21,300 it's easy to do. There are there are likely 60 00:03:21,300 --> 00:03:25,600 channels right now that anyone in the world could use to create 61 00:03:25,600 --> 00:03:29,800 US dollar and transact in a u.s. dollar without permission. 62 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:33,400 Just something I want to point out really fast maybe a lot of 63 00:03:33,408 --> 00:03:35,800 people don't know this. Then networks as they exist 64 00:03:35,800 --> 00:03:38,300 today cannot handle eight billion people. 65 00:03:38,400 --> 00:03:40,800 Using them in a non-custodial fashion. 66 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:44,000 We need real serious engineering, breakthroughs to 67 00:03:44,000 --> 00:03:48,000 make that work. And Eric got fact check because 68 00:03:48,000 --> 00:03:51,900 he said oh what was it? It was the etherium thing, he 69 00:03:51,900 --> 00:03:54,000 got the wrong year for a theory. Yeah. 70 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:59,000 Eric was saying that the 2017, I co bubble was a good thing 71 00:03:59,000 --> 00:04:01,100 because at least etherium came out of it. 72 00:04:01,600 --> 00:04:04,400 For those that don't remember the etherium Ico started in like 73 00:04:04,400 --> 00:04:08,100 late, 2014 in the chain actually launched in 2015. 74 00:04:08,400 --> 00:04:13,300 Is not 2017, whatever, whatever. Regardless it, the entire 75 00:04:13,300 --> 00:04:15,600 session was supposed to be about why we're here. 76 00:04:15,600 --> 00:04:18,000 And there couldn't even seem to be during this consensus. 77 00:04:18,000 --> 00:04:21,600 Any kind of agreement on why that is Eric cared about the 78 00:04:21,600 --> 00:04:24,500 Austrian money. Part Caitlin kept talking about 79 00:04:24,500 --> 00:04:27,700 an honest Ledger, whatever. That means Neha, the spent half 80 00:04:27,700 --> 00:04:30,100 of her speaking time fact-checking the other people 81 00:04:30,100 --> 00:04:35,500 on the panel like and there was no like real thrust to it and 82 00:04:35,500 --> 00:04:38,200 like that was kind of the pattern 3 out. 83 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:42,500 Many of the sessions were disappointing in a lot of 84 00:04:42,500 --> 00:04:44,600 different ways. Well, we're going to have plenty 85 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:48,600 of time during this whole entire conversation to rag on some of 86 00:04:48,600 --> 00:04:51,800 these totally irrelevant discussions with. 87 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:55,600 Yeah, we'll get there. I think you were tweeting about 88 00:04:55,600 --> 00:04:58,400 probably the most important one so why don't you go ahead and 89 00:04:58,400 --> 00:05:02,400 get into that instead? So FTX was a crypto currency 90 00:05:02,400 --> 00:05:07,200 exchange as none of, you know, and there was a panel on it 91 00:05:07,200 --> 00:05:11,000 called FTX what? Have been moderated by Polk 92 00:05:11,000 --> 00:05:14,100 award winning journalist, Tracy Wang and including Brett 93 00:05:14,100 --> 00:05:17,700 Harrison and Anthony Scaramouche Brett Harrison for those who 94 00:05:17,700 --> 00:05:20,300 don't know is the former president of FTX u.s. in the 95 00:05:20,308 --> 00:05:25,000 current CEO and founder of architect a firm doing crypto 96 00:05:25,000 --> 00:05:30,200 currency trading infrastructure. I think, doesn't matter, Anthony 97 00:05:30,200 --> 00:05:32,300 Scaramouche. He of course, is the former 98 00:05:32,500 --> 00:05:37,500 Trump guy who now runs skybridge capital and they were talking 99 00:05:37,500 --> 00:05:39,700 about and TX. And there were several 100 00:05:39,700 --> 00:05:43,000 interesting parts will start the one that happened earlier on. 101 00:05:43,000 --> 00:05:44,500 And then we'll get to the really big one. 102 00:05:45,500 --> 00:05:50,200 Scary Meucci was asked about FTX Ventures investment in skybridge 103 00:05:50,200 --> 00:05:53,400 capital, which I had largely forgotten about, like it was 104 00:05:53,400 --> 00:05:57,000 included on the list of Investments that the financial 105 00:05:57,000 --> 00:06:00,300 times had been able to compile, but like it's scary. 106 00:06:00,300 --> 00:06:06,000 Meucci who cares? But apparently, I've TX 107 00:06:06,000 --> 00:06:08,000 Ventures. Had purchased a 1/3 stake in 108 00:06:08,000 --> 00:06:09,800 sky. Which capital with the 109 00:06:09,800 --> 00:06:12,300 understanding that eventually, they would acquire the whole 110 00:06:12,300 --> 00:06:15,100 firm. Sakura Mochi also revealed 111 00:06:15,200 --> 00:06:19,200 during that question that as a condition of that deal, he had 112 00:06:19,200 --> 00:06:23,800 to buy ten million dollars in ftt in FTX token. 113 00:06:24,100 --> 00:06:27,300 And like when he was being asked by Tracy, are you worried about 114 00:06:27,300 --> 00:06:30,900 these funds being clawed back? He's like our lawyers are 115 00:06:30,900 --> 00:06:34,400 talking to the bankruptcy. Court will do what we need to 116 00:06:34,400 --> 00:06:37,000 do. We ended up losing money on our 117 00:06:37,000 --> 00:06:39,900 ftt token. Which again I was not aware, was 118 00:06:39,900 --> 00:06:42,700 a condition of their deal that they had to like basically it 119 00:06:42,700 --> 00:06:46,400 was like a mini round trip like the FTX Sequoia one, right? 120 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:50,200 But done through skybridge instead and so that was 121 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:52,300 interesting if we want to talk about that. 122 00:07:05,900 --> 00:07:09,200 What kind of afraid of that skybridge state? 123 00:07:09,200 --> 00:07:11,200 Are you trying to unwind with you? 124 00:07:11,200 --> 00:07:14,800 But the problem is, the bankruptcy. 125 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:17,700 Proceedings are always take a long time. 126 00:07:17,700 --> 00:07:20,100 I don't want to be cynical about it, but there's a tremendous 127 00:07:20,100 --> 00:07:23,300 amount of legal fees to get running in a bankruptcy 128 00:07:23,300 --> 00:07:25,400 proceeding. And so there's an incentive to 129 00:07:25,700 --> 00:07:30,300 slow things down. We contacted the investment 130 00:07:30,300 --> 00:07:34,400 bankers and Bankruptcy lawyers related to the stake. 131 00:07:35,100 --> 00:07:37,400 I've talked about this before so it would be pretty open about 132 00:07:37,400 --> 00:07:38,500 it. What? 133 00:07:38,500 --> 00:07:42,200 Sam bong was a 30% interest with an understanding that he would 134 00:07:42,200 --> 00:07:45,200 have to go right there by the remaining part of the company, 135 00:07:45,200 --> 00:07:48,400 over a two-year period. And so I think the good news for 136 00:07:48,400 --> 00:07:51,500 us there was less of a concern about having minority 137 00:07:51,500 --> 00:07:54,400 shareholder, right? So there's no economics 138 00:07:54,400 --> 00:07:58,000 associate with that piece. He's not the bankruptcy States. 139 00:07:58,000 --> 00:08:01,600 Not entitled to Preferred income or anything like that, and It 140 00:08:01,600 --> 00:08:04,500 had no management control or board seat. 141 00:08:04,500 --> 00:08:09,000 So it's really that valuable to anybody other than us and I 142 00:08:09,000 --> 00:08:13,500 guess at some point will be able to buy it back or frankly not 143 00:08:13,500 --> 00:08:15,600 buy it back. And so if we don't buy it back, 144 00:08:15,600 --> 00:08:18,300 it's okay with me as well because, you know, we took 145 00:08:18,500 --> 00:08:22,200 capital on to our balance sheet, some of it, we lost in the ftt 146 00:08:22,200 --> 00:08:27,900 token, I sold that token at a loss, but I just to clarify some 147 00:08:27,900 --> 00:08:31,200 of the portion of the funds that Sam gave. 148 00:08:31,500 --> 00:08:34,200 As part of the assessment, we got cash. 149 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:38,000 We agreed by 10 million dollars of the ftt token. 150 00:08:38,900 --> 00:08:41,799 But I also, you know, bought a pretty large position in 151 00:08:41,799 --> 00:08:42,900 Bitcoin. Yeah. 152 00:08:42,900 --> 00:08:45,900 I think I think there's a yeah, there's some crazy criminal shit 153 00:08:45,900 --> 00:08:49,900 goin on there that is being admitted to which is wild. 154 00:08:49,900 --> 00:08:53,200 And I'm just if anyone is unfamiliar with Sky Britt and 155 00:08:53,200 --> 00:08:57,300 Scaramouche be like these guys were accumulating a ton of money 156 00:08:57,900 --> 00:09:01,900 and I am just looking at his Wikipedia page and This is just 157 00:09:01,900 --> 00:09:06,100 beautiful. As of March, 20 23 Sky, Bridges 158 00:09:06,100 --> 00:09:08,200 assets. Had dwindled to about 2 billion 159 00:09:08,200 --> 00:09:11,800 dollars from a peak of nine billion dollars in 2015. 160 00:09:11,900 --> 00:09:17,400 So, despite the market in general going only up between 161 00:09:17,400 --> 00:09:21,000 2015. And now, I mean, that's wild, 162 00:09:21,000 --> 00:09:23,900 right investors? Lost about thirty percent of 163 00:09:23,900 --> 00:09:28,300 their value from the beginning of 2020 through 2023, 39% in 164 00:09:28,300 --> 00:09:31,100 calendar 2022. The fund had reduced the 165 00:09:31,100 --> 00:09:32,700 ability. You have investors to withdraw 166 00:09:32,700 --> 00:09:36,700 funds and reduced Staffing. So if you need just a basic 167 00:09:36,700 --> 00:09:39,900 summary of Scaramouche cheese investment strategy and how good 168 00:09:39,900 --> 00:09:43,500 he is with other people's money. I think that kind of just Gets 169 00:09:43,500 --> 00:09:48,300 You Through the basics. But yeah, go into kind of yeah. 170 00:09:48,300 --> 00:09:50,400 Like the details of why and Bert. 171 00:09:50,800 --> 00:09:51,400 Yeah. Yeah. 172 00:09:51,700 --> 00:09:56,100 So apparently I'm like November 6 or November 7th a few days 173 00:09:56,100 --> 00:09:59,800 before they were like really getting ready to declare 174 00:09:59,800 --> 00:10:03,300 bankruptcy. Apparently our friend Anthony 175 00:10:03,300 --> 00:10:08,200 skier, Meucci the mooch, got a call from Joseph, Blankman Sam 176 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,200 Bateman fried's father in which sandbank manfred's. 177 00:10:11,200 --> 00:10:14,500 Father, Joseph Blankman a Stanford law, professor 178 00:10:15,000 --> 00:10:18,000 convinced scare Meucci. That there was currently an 179 00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:20,500 asset. Liability mismatch was the word 180 00:10:20,500 --> 00:10:24,800 that scary mooji used at FTX somewhere around a billion 181 00:10:24,800 --> 00:10:29,400 dollars is what he initially got the impression of and so scary 182 00:10:29,400 --> 00:10:31,300 Meucci decided to take this information. 183 00:10:31,400 --> 00:10:33,400 Shouldn't from say embankment fried's. 184 00:10:33,400 --> 00:10:37,300 Father and fly down to the Bahamas to hang out in the war 185 00:10:37,300 --> 00:10:41,200 room with Karry Wang, sandbank manfried and ishod sing, Carolyn 186 00:10:41,200 --> 00:10:45,400 Ellison in the rest of the friends to help them with their 187 00:10:45,400 --> 00:10:49,200 fundraising for their emergency, liquidity money, what happened 188 00:10:49,200 --> 00:10:50,900 to me is? I was actually speaking in 189 00:10:50,900 --> 00:10:54,300 Sarasota Florida, there was Rumblings that day. 190 00:10:54,300 --> 00:10:58,900 I think it was November the 6th or something like that or 191 00:10:58,900 --> 00:11:00,900 seventh the Monday was the seventh. 192 00:11:01,300 --> 00:11:05,300 And that I got back to New York and I spoke to Sam's dad about 193 00:11:05,300 --> 00:11:07,500 the problem. And it was intimated to me that 194 00:11:07,500 --> 00:11:12,500 it was a, an asset liability mismatch that they were meeting 195 00:11:12,500 --> 00:11:14,700 redemptions. And there were assets available, 196 00:11:14,700 --> 00:11:17,900 but they weren't necessarily liquid and they needed time to 197 00:11:17,900 --> 00:11:21,800 get the liquidity and they were looking for some rescue things. 198 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,200 And so at that time I was a good citizen and a partner in the 199 00:11:26,200 --> 00:11:28,000 business effectively, the only piece my business. 200 00:11:28,000 --> 00:11:31,000 I'm certainly trying to help them on their fundraising round. 201 00:11:32,100 --> 00:11:35,400 And then I talked to his dad later in the day, how much money 202 00:11:35,400 --> 00:11:38,600 were there. They were talking about and I've 203 00:11:38,600 --> 00:11:44,000 said this, we're talking about a billion dollars which seems a 204 00:11:44,008 --> 00:11:46,100 lot of money, but certainly would be manageable in the 205 00:11:46,100 --> 00:11:48,300 context of the size of the business. 206 00:11:48,300 --> 00:11:51,600 But later in the evening that number went from a billion of 207 00:11:51,600 --> 00:11:56,300 for naplan and then I said, okay, there's obviously a 208 00:11:56,308 --> 00:12:00,100 problem and it's a bigger problem that they want to admit 209 00:12:00,100 --> 00:12:04,500 to And so I made the decision that evening, I just got on my 210 00:12:04,500 --> 00:12:08,500 phone, I booked myself a JetBlue flight down to the Bahamas, and 211 00:12:08,500 --> 00:12:10,700 I wanted to see for myself, what was going on? 212 00:12:10,700 --> 00:12:14,200 You know, listen, I put my name and reputation at stake, I could 213 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:19,000 introduce and a lot of me, Paul bread and I one short year ago 214 00:12:19,000 --> 00:12:20,300 and I believe you were there with us. 215 00:12:20,600 --> 00:12:24,400 We had crypto Bahamas at the bottom are o, tell Brett and I 216 00:12:24,400 --> 00:12:27,800 were going to as the dinner for the likes of Tony Blair and Bill 217 00:12:27,800 --> 00:12:30,800 Clinton and a whole host of luminaries. 218 00:12:31,400 --> 00:12:34,800 Sure, here ago, invest forward sort of stole hard to believe 219 00:12:34,800 --> 00:12:38,400 that where we are right now and so I need needed to see it for 220 00:12:38,400 --> 00:12:41,000 myself. And so I went down there and I 221 00:12:41,008 --> 00:12:45,600 would say that the War Room was despondent and I would say that 222 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,600 it was clear to a few people that there was a very small 223 00:12:49,600 --> 00:12:53,900 group of people that had done some things that they didn't let 224 00:12:53,900 --> 00:12:57,900 the other group of people into. Now, there's a few interesting 225 00:12:57,900 --> 00:13:02,200 pieces of this story one, Joseph bank, man, By knowing the 226 00:13:02,200 --> 00:13:06,200 finances of FTX specifically enough to know that there was a 227 00:13:06,208 --> 00:13:09,800 whole Joseph Batman, being empowered to reach out to 228 00:13:09,800 --> 00:13:14,300 advisors about FTX to potentially bring in assistance 229 00:13:14,300 --> 00:13:16,300 to deal with the whole Scaramouche. 230 00:13:16,300 --> 00:13:20,200 He decided he should be in the fucking war room in the Bahamas 231 00:13:20,200 --> 00:13:23,600 for his expertise and fundraising money. 232 00:13:25,000 --> 00:13:28,300 And the fact that they were trying to fundraise money with 233 00:13:28,300 --> 00:13:31,200 this still developing story about this hole in there. 234 00:13:31,300 --> 00:13:34,300 Balance sheet mascara, Meucci also during that section said, 235 00:13:34,300 --> 00:13:37,400 like I heard 1 billion. When they called, by the end of 236 00:13:37,408 --> 00:13:40,700 the day, it was 4.5 billion and then it was whatever. 237 00:13:40,700 --> 00:13:43,900 And so like during this period, apparently scare Meucci was 238 00:13:43,900 --> 00:13:48,400 still down there in the Bahamas. Helping them try to fundraise to 239 00:13:48,400 --> 00:13:51,000 deal with this asset liability mismatch. 240 00:13:51,500 --> 00:13:54,200 There's also probably a bad way to phrase it, right? 241 00:13:54,200 --> 00:13:56,800 And he tried to cover it up quickly like some of the assets 242 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,900 just aren't liquid. But we've talked about this a 243 00:13:59,908 --> 00:14:01,900 little bit on here before. There's a Difference between 244 00:14:01,900 --> 00:14:03,800 illiquidity and insolvency, right? 245 00:14:03,800 --> 00:14:07,100 And often when it comes down to is like a duration issue, if you 246 00:14:07,100 --> 00:14:10,400 have certain assets that take a certain amount of time to reach 247 00:14:10,400 --> 00:14:12,900 their value, you can end up in cases where you are a liquid but 248 00:14:12,900 --> 00:14:16,300 not necessarily in solve it. That should never happen for a 249 00:14:16,308 --> 00:14:19,100 crypto currency exchange. Right, none of these assets 250 00:14:19,100 --> 00:14:21,200 really have that type of duration risk. 251 00:14:21,200 --> 00:14:24,700 If there was an asset liability mismatch, that means when scare 252 00:14:24,700 --> 00:14:27,800 Meucci got that news, he knew there was some bigger issue. 253 00:14:27,900 --> 00:14:29,700 They were running fractional-reserve, there'd been 254 00:14:29,700 --> 00:14:31,100 a hack, there'd been funds or ass. 255 00:14:31,400 --> 00:14:33,400 It's what's that were not obtainable. 256 00:14:33,600 --> 00:14:37,100 And so he knew that information for days before they declared 257 00:14:37,100 --> 00:14:40,000 bankruptcy. Well, they were fundraising. 258 00:14:40,100 --> 00:14:42,800 Yeah, really. Not a good look and, you know, 259 00:14:42,900 --> 00:14:45,300 to me, it sounds like there's a lot of illegal things going on 260 00:14:45,300 --> 00:14:47,800 there, who knows? Maybe nothing illegal happened. 261 00:14:47,800 --> 00:14:49,500 Maybe there was nothing unsavory. 262 00:14:49,600 --> 00:14:52,300 It was all totally moral and aboveboard. 263 00:14:53,200 --> 00:14:56,900 It's definitely gonna make it more Awkward for Joseph Bank. 264 00:14:56,900 --> 00:15:00,600 Men in any of his conversations with Regulators or prosecutors, 265 00:15:01,300 --> 00:15:04,100 Now, have to explain why this person is making these claims 266 00:15:04,100 --> 00:15:07,300 about his knowledge, because I believe his public claims so far 267 00:15:07,300 --> 00:15:09,700 have been like, I was just helping out with some of the 268 00:15:09,700 --> 00:15:12,500 charity stuff and filled out a couple contracts. 269 00:15:12,700 --> 00:15:16,000 I didn't know what was going on. Yeah, yeah. 270 00:15:16,900 --> 00:15:18,700 Yeah. So that I, yeah, I think that 271 00:15:18,700 --> 00:15:20,800 was probably the most interesting thing. 272 00:15:21,000 --> 00:15:24,400 I know that, I know that also what happened on that day was or 273 00:15:24,400 --> 00:15:27,700 maybe it was on the first day was I was told a story about 274 00:15:27,800 --> 00:15:32,400 Laura Shin with and Dan Horovitz. 275 00:15:32,400 --> 00:15:33,600 Whoo. Dan. 276 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:38,900 Horvitz what has worked for the SEC and the cftc, Dan horovitz, 277 00:15:38,900 --> 00:15:43,300 and flourish in were having a discussion about something 278 00:15:43,300 --> 00:15:48,900 related to Securities and supposedly Dan horovitz got 279 00:15:48,900 --> 00:15:54,300 booed and heckled by a bunch of people who were claiming that he 280 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:58,500 had helped them lose a bunch of money, which just shows you how 281 00:15:58,600 --> 00:16:01,100 people own up and acknowledge and take responsibility. 282 00:16:01,200 --> 00:16:04,400 Leti for their own actions. In this industry where you know, 283 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:07,600 you're supposed to do, don't trust verify and do your own 284 00:16:07,600 --> 00:16:10,400 research and all that. So glad to see people taking 285 00:16:10,400 --> 00:16:14,800 responsibility for their actions and not blaming government 286 00:16:14,800 --> 00:16:17,200 Regulators for cryptocurrency stuff. 287 00:16:18,000 --> 00:16:21,500 But yeah, so then what else did you go to before? 288 00:16:21,500 --> 00:16:27,000 I arrived what else happened? Sure, I listen to Phillip, 289 00:16:27,000 --> 00:16:30,200 Davis, the Prime Minister of the Bahamas, talk about the Dare act 290 00:16:30,200 --> 00:16:33,800 and how great it is. And how wonderfully it is helped 291 00:16:33,800 --> 00:16:37,700 put and really how even at this point they're glad FTX came to 292 00:16:37,700 --> 00:16:41,700 the Bahamas because it put the Bahamas on the crypto regulatory 293 00:16:41,700 --> 00:16:46,100 map and that's what they wanted. More than anything else. 294 00:16:46,500 --> 00:16:52,400 Heard that then I went to listen to in a 16z general partner. 295 00:16:52,700 --> 00:16:55,800 So you're in Christendom talk about how web 3 can fix social 296 00:16:55,800 --> 00:16:58,700 media and consumer apps. And apparently the answer to 297 00:16:58,700 --> 00:17:02,600 that is ownership let people make money. 298 00:17:02,900 --> 00:17:06,099 Also don't have Financial incentives because it means you 299 00:17:06,099 --> 00:17:09,500 can't scale. Also wasn't part of. 300 00:17:09,500 --> 00:17:14,300 The wasn't part of the question. Like what role VC's play in this 301 00:17:14,300 --> 00:17:17,000 and how they don't harm? Decentralized Finance. 302 00:17:17,000 --> 00:17:19,800 If the goal is for it to be decentralized Finance like 303 00:17:19,800 --> 00:17:22,200 aren't there aren't there bad that wasn't touch done? 304 00:17:22,599 --> 00:17:25,200 Oh, I thought that that was part of it that there was like the 305 00:17:25,200 --> 00:17:28,400 wrong incentives for venture capital and I was like, I just 306 00:17:28,400 --> 00:17:30,200 thought it was so. So yes, there was kind of a 307 00:17:30,208 --> 00:17:34,200 question about this. Like because Christian had made 308 00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,900 this claim that like in order for these web three social 309 00:17:36,900 --> 00:17:40,600 networks to scale you needed to be very careful about putting 310 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,800 Financial incentives in early, which is also a crazy thing to 311 00:17:43,800 --> 00:17:46,100 say when your portfolio includes D. 312 00:17:46,100 --> 00:17:50,600 So right where the entire point of that this bit clout was to 313 00:17:50,600 --> 00:17:54,500 have these massive Financial incentives in right away as your 314 00:17:54,500 --> 00:17:56,600 way to bootstrap the network, right? 315 00:17:56,600 --> 00:18:00,100 What's your thesis here? That includes both bit clout and 316 00:18:00,100 --> 00:18:03,600 not having In Tibbs, why are you investing in all these tokens 317 00:18:03,600 --> 00:18:07,000 social media things if you don't want Financial incentives. 318 00:18:07,100 --> 00:18:11,200 But yes, Angela who was the one from forecast, Labs, who was 319 00:18:11,200 --> 00:18:14,700 basically asking these questions of Christian asked about, like, 320 00:18:15,200 --> 00:18:17,100 if that's true that you don't want to include these Financial 321 00:18:17,100 --> 00:18:18,700 incentives. How do you build it in a way 322 00:18:18,700 --> 00:18:22,200 where it still matches with the VC expectations of an eventual, 323 00:18:22,400 --> 00:18:25,500 eventual hundred or a thousand x times return, right? 324 00:18:26,000 --> 00:18:30,300 And Christian kind of dodged the question and said, oh it's not 325 00:18:30,300 --> 00:18:33,800 that Financial Incentives are bad or returns or bad, you just 326 00:18:33,800 --> 00:18:37,100 gotta wait you gotta scale you got to figure it out first and 327 00:18:37,100 --> 00:18:41,400 like yeah sure but that net and like the most frustrating thing 328 00:18:41,400 --> 00:18:45,800 during this is during this entire session, this 20 minute 329 00:18:45,800 --> 00:18:49,700 long session at no point. Did they ever actually answer 330 00:18:49,700 --> 00:18:53,400 the title of the session? How web three can help fix 331 00:18:53,400 --> 00:18:56,900 social media and consumer apps. Web three was never even really 332 00:18:56,900 --> 00:19:00,800 defined except that web 3 means ownership. 333 00:19:00,800 --> 00:19:04,200 And I Just reminds me also of when we were watching there was 334 00:19:04,200 --> 00:19:07,800 like a little point. We went to the coin desk TV area 335 00:19:07,800 --> 00:19:10,700 and they were discussing the metaverse. 336 00:19:10,700 --> 00:19:13,700 He and like one of one of the things they explicitly said, 337 00:19:13,700 --> 00:19:18,300 he's a real Global Network of thought leadership, that was the 338 00:19:18,300 --> 00:19:19,900 worst definition I've ever heard. 339 00:19:19,900 --> 00:19:22,400 But I also heard someone say, well, we can't really Define it, 340 00:19:22,400 --> 00:19:24,400 which is like. So both of these answers are 341 00:19:24,400 --> 00:19:27,900 terrible because either you can't Define it at all, or your 342 00:19:27,900 --> 00:19:31,700 definition makes me think it should immediately be Burn to 343 00:19:31,700 --> 00:19:33,600 the ground. Like, I don't want a 344 00:19:33,608 --> 00:19:36,300 decentralized network of thought leaders. 345 00:19:36,700 --> 00:19:40,200 Um, so yeah, it just sounds very, very similar to it is. 346 00:19:40,200 --> 00:19:43,400 Convergences of thought, leaders, right? 347 00:19:43,800 --> 00:19:45,800 These are real phrases that were used. 348 00:19:45,800 --> 00:19:48,100 By the way. You guys are not making me some, 349 00:19:48,200 --> 00:19:54,200 I'm not that creative, but when after that, after hearing this, 350 00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:57,000 a 16z partner, say nothing for 20 minutes. 351 00:19:57,000 --> 00:20:00,000 After promising, it was going to be the most entertaining, 15 352 00:20:00,000 --> 00:20:02,600 minutes, I had that day. Day, it wasn't. 353 00:20:02,600 --> 00:20:04,500 The music was far more entertaining. 354 00:20:04,700 --> 00:20:06,200 Sorry. Christian and you can't measure 355 00:20:06,200 --> 00:20:09,800 up to the mooch. I then listen to Paul Gray Wall 356 00:20:09,800 --> 00:20:12,100 from coinbase. Talk about their Wells notice 357 00:20:12,800 --> 00:20:16,000 and basically they're mad because the SEC, let them go 358 00:20:16,000 --> 00:20:19,900 public and they set and he said how in the world. 359 00:20:20,000 --> 00:20:22,800 How in the world? Because the SEC let coinbase go 360 00:20:22,800 --> 00:20:29,700 public. Why is Chief legal officer? 361 00:20:29,900 --> 00:20:32,200 Clearly having a good? Ellen, what's going on around 362 00:20:32,200 --> 00:20:35,900 him and his the general thrust of their argument is that this 363 00:20:35,900 --> 00:20:39,900 was our business back. When we filed, our S1 to go 364 00:20:39,900 --> 00:20:42,300 public context. Here, let me sit down for a 365 00:20:42,308 --> 00:20:44,700 second. The s-1 is the registration 366 00:20:44,700 --> 00:20:48,200 document you file with the SEC in preparation for public. 367 00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:51,500 Issuance of Securities, it has a certain amount of things you 368 00:20:51,500 --> 00:20:54,500 need to disclose that were established initially in the 369 00:20:54,500 --> 00:20:57,500 1933 Securities act and have been expanded as part of the 370 00:20:57,500 --> 00:21:01,300 rulemaking process. Since then coinbase is, We 371 00:21:01,300 --> 00:21:04,700 thrust is that we said, this is our business back, then why did 372 00:21:04,700 --> 00:21:07,700 they say rs1 was okay. And we were good to go public. 373 00:21:07,700 --> 00:21:10,800 If we were breaking the law and this gets into, and we've talked 374 00:21:10,800 --> 00:21:14,100 about this with the SEC before the SEC is primarily a 375 00:21:14,100 --> 00:21:16,200 disclosure and enforcement regime. 376 00:21:16,400 --> 00:21:20,000 And what I mean when I say that is their role is to make sure 377 00:21:20,000 --> 00:21:23,500 the companies they regulate are filing their, for their required 378 00:21:23,500 --> 00:21:26,100 disclosures. And then when they find a 379 00:21:26,108 --> 00:21:31,000 breach, to enforce against the actors, they are not, they do 380 00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,700 not Prevent things, they are not set up for that. 381 00:21:33,700 --> 00:21:39,300 That's not in their mandate and the 1933 Securities act itself 382 00:21:39,300 --> 00:21:42,500 said neither, the fact that the registration statement for 383 00:21:42,500 --> 00:21:46,500 security has been filed or is an effect nor the fact that a stop 384 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:50,300 order is not in effect with respect there, too shall be 385 00:21:50,300 --> 00:21:53,200 deemed a finding by the commission that registration 386 00:21:53,200 --> 00:21:56,800 statement is true and accurate on its face or that it does not 387 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,800 contain an untrue statement of fact or omit to state of 388 00:21:59,800 --> 00:22:03,400 material fact. Or be held to mean that the 389 00:22:03,400 --> 00:22:08,400 commission has in any way passed upon the merits of or given 390 00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:13,000 approval to such security. It shall be unlawful to make, or 391 00:22:13,000 --> 00:22:15,700 caused to be made to any prospective purchaser. 392 00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:19,000 Any representation. Contrary to the foregoing 393 00:22:19,000 --> 00:22:21,900 provisions of this section. That's the 1933 act, that 394 00:22:21,900 --> 00:22:24,500 defined like that the role of the SEC at this point. 395 00:22:24,500 --> 00:22:27,600 We talk about this back in our episode on the SEC and 396 00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:31,000 apparently, and like, this is my frustration is Paul knows that. 397 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,900 Paul Gray will knows that, that's the fcc's role what 398 00:22:33,900 --> 00:22:36,800 they're trying to do with the video release and playing to the 399 00:22:36,800 --> 00:22:40,300 media is to muddy. The waters is to make it seem 400 00:22:40,300 --> 00:22:43,700 like there's ambiguity there. I even went back to coin basis 401 00:22:43,700 --> 00:22:47,500 S1 just to make sure and they had like a thousand words in 402 00:22:47,500 --> 00:22:50,500 total of risk, factors related to potentially changing legal, 403 00:22:50,500 --> 00:22:53,600 or regulatory risks, that was disclosed to investors. 404 00:22:53,600 --> 00:22:56,900 And that's the scc's like stance on disclosure if it's in the 405 00:22:56,900 --> 00:22:59,600 risk factors, the investors new, right? 406 00:22:59,600 --> 00:23:04,000 And so like the the entire thrust of their argument was why 407 00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,900 were we allowed to go public? Because you filled out the form 408 00:23:06,900 --> 00:23:10,600 accurately and I, I don't know. This, this goes back to the 409 00:23:10,600 --> 00:23:14,000 lawsuit that they're bringing against the SEC or the filing 410 00:23:14,000 --> 00:23:16,500 that they played, it doesn't, it doesn't right. 411 00:23:16,500 --> 00:23:19,100 Because like there's the, there's the coinbase has 412 00:23:19,100 --> 00:23:21,500 received a Wells notice. This was their Wells submission. 413 00:23:21,500 --> 00:23:24,800 Basically their argument back to the SEC saying, here is why it's 414 00:23:24,800 --> 00:23:29,000 not worth suing us separate from that they had previously filed, 415 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,700 an administrative requests related, 2 SEC rule making and 416 00:23:33,700 --> 00:23:39,200 they now filed a request in a Delaware Court to try to compel 417 00:23:39,500 --> 00:23:44,400 the SEC to either say, they will create a new rule or explicitly. 418 00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:47,900 Say no, we are not going to create a new rule for you 419 00:23:47,900 --> 00:23:50,300 coinbase. And so all the SEC is going to 420 00:23:50,300 --> 00:23:53,600 do is say okay this went from pending to denied. 421 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:58,400 Congratulations lawsuit over so that that's most that's but like 422 00:23:58,400 --> 00:24:01,000 it's still like you're saying part of their broader media, 423 00:24:01,100 --> 00:24:03,000 Strategy. They're trying to flood the 424 00:24:03,000 --> 00:24:06,700 plane and muddy the whole thing with this kind of conflicting 425 00:24:06,700 --> 00:24:09,300 information and make it seem one way. 426 00:24:09,300 --> 00:24:12,900 Even if that's not reality, they also just like their entire art 427 00:24:12,900 --> 00:24:14,200 to me. Their entire argument is 428 00:24:14,200 --> 00:24:17,200 baseless and like I hear a lot of cheerleaders and people who I 429 00:24:17,208 --> 00:24:18,900 respect to like I don't want to suggest. 430 00:24:18,900 --> 00:24:22,600 That only cheerleaders are the ones saying that coinbase stands 431 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:24,700 a chance here. I don't think they do. 432 00:24:25,000 --> 00:24:27,600 Maybe I'll be proven wrong. I've seen lawyers say there's 433 00:24:27,600 --> 00:24:29,600 they have a chance here, maybe I'm wrong. 434 00:24:29,600 --> 00:24:33,300 I'm not a lawyer but like To me, their argument seem trivial and 435 00:24:33,300 --> 00:24:38,600 baseless and destined to fail, but, you know, we'll find out, I 436 00:24:38,608 --> 00:24:40,800 don't know. Yeah. 437 00:24:41,100 --> 00:24:43,000 Yeah, there was one. Last session. 438 00:24:43,000 --> 00:24:44,700 I was able to handle that day before. 439 00:24:44,700 --> 00:24:47,400 I just had to leave the convention center before I did 440 00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,200 something rash and that was in the compliance trenches with 441 00:24:52,200 --> 00:24:55,400 Finance, which was Danny Nelson, interviewing tigran Jamboree in 442 00:24:55,400 --> 00:24:57,100 the head of Investigations for finance. 443 00:24:57,900 --> 00:25:00,900 And again, this was a couple of interesting statements coming. 444 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:04,700 I'm from one of these people with the end of investigation, 445 00:25:04,700 --> 00:25:09,400 saying, one point that he helped kick off the North Koreans who 446 00:25:09,400 --> 00:25:12,900 were trying to use by Nance to launder funds, which does give 447 00:25:12,900 --> 00:25:18,900 the impression they were there before also, when asked so the 448 00:25:18,900 --> 00:25:21,700 cftc lawsuit in some of the supporting materials revealed 449 00:25:21,700 --> 00:25:26,200 that by Nancy Angels had told Mainland Chinese users where by 450 00:25:26,200 --> 00:25:30,400 Nance was supposedly, not operating that if they got the 451 00:25:30,500 --> 00:25:30,900 pot. Wow. 452 00:25:31,000 --> 00:25:35,600 Paulo is citizenship they could still use that to verify it by 453 00:25:35,600 --> 00:25:38,200 Nance. Do you run was asked about this 454 00:25:38,200 --> 00:25:43,100 and basically said, kyc is only a piece of our compliance work 455 00:25:43,100 --> 00:25:49,300 and he repeatedly called these IDs fake IDs like four separate 456 00:25:49,300 --> 00:25:53,400 times during the course of this brief question. 457 00:25:53,400 --> 00:25:57,500 And the reason I'm highlighting these things here is because I 458 00:25:57,500 --> 00:26:02,100 think they are potentially challenging Changing if they're 459 00:26:02,100 --> 00:26:06,000 found to be untrue. So, for example, if in the near 460 00:26:06,000 --> 00:26:09,800 future, prosecutors in western Washington where to file an 461 00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:13,400 indictment against someone that happened to include that Finance 462 00:26:13,400 --> 00:26:17,000 was serving Lazarus group money launderers, or something like 463 00:26:17,000 --> 00:26:18,900 that. It would be embarrassing. 464 00:26:18,900 --> 00:26:21,700 If you had just been on stage saying you would kick them all 465 00:26:21,700 --> 00:26:26,100 off or if you kept referring to something as a fake ID, it would 466 00:26:26,100 --> 00:26:28,400 be embarrassing. If it turned out that there was 467 00:26:28,400 --> 00:26:30,900 a bunch of people using that ID on the exchange. 468 00:26:31,100 --> 00:26:35,300 Look for and so I thought those two comments during that we're 469 00:26:35,300 --> 00:26:36,800 really the most interesting to me. 470 00:26:37,000 --> 00:26:39,600 Yeah, yeah. Either way. 471 00:26:39,600 --> 00:26:40,600 Oh yeah. Not looking good. 472 00:26:40,600 --> 00:26:42,100 And what was it did? Yeah. 473 00:26:42,200 --> 00:26:44,300 What did he say? If someone is going to jail? 474 00:26:44,300 --> 00:26:47,200 It's not me. I yeah, that's a, that's 475 00:26:47,200 --> 00:26:49,000 something, you know? Yeah. 476 00:26:49,000 --> 00:26:52,900 And they also like reiterated and talked again about how they 477 00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,200 collaborate with law enforcement, like some of the 478 00:26:55,200 --> 00:26:58,700 funds seized in the recent, indictment of some of those 479 00:26:58,700 --> 00:27:01,400 North Korean money launderers, were funds by That they had 480 00:27:01,400 --> 00:27:04,600 helped turn over to the feds and they talked about how they go 481 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:07,700 around and help train law enforcement and that like, their 482 00:27:07,700 --> 00:27:11,700 team of 200 investigators or whatever is mostly former law 483 00:27:11,700 --> 00:27:14,100 enforcement in some former chain analysis. 484 00:27:14,500 --> 00:27:17,000 So they were, they spent part of their session bragging about 485 00:27:17,000 --> 00:27:19,500 that as well. I am curious because, you know, 486 00:27:19,600 --> 00:27:22,700 the ones that get shut down that we hear about, you know, Silk 487 00:27:22,700 --> 00:27:27,300 Road or Liberty reserve. I suspect that there they never 488 00:27:27,300 --> 00:27:30,400 cooperate with law enforcement or never, did you know? 489 00:27:31,100 --> 00:27:35,900 And I do wonder if these guys get brownie points for for 490 00:27:35,900 --> 00:27:38,300 playing ball a bit. So yes, we talked about this a 491 00:27:38,308 --> 00:27:40,300 little bit in our recent finance and trouble episode. 492 00:27:40,300 --> 00:27:44,900 I think it was 114 about the cftc case and basically my 493 00:27:44,900 --> 00:27:48,300 thought then was, and this was in part based on the finance, 494 00:27:48,300 --> 00:27:51,700 spokesperson response, right? Is that we've been working with 495 00:27:51,700 --> 00:27:56,200 the cftc for two years in, this was very unexpected, we know 496 00:27:56,200 --> 00:27:59,000 that they have the former Chief of em Lars, the money, less 497 00:27:59,100 --> 00:28:02,200 money, laundering and asset recovery, he's inside the doj 498 00:28:02,400 --> 00:28:06,600 negotiating on their behalf in Washington, my gut instinct. 499 00:28:06,600 --> 00:28:09,600 With the way, the whole by Nance thing ends up playing out is an 500 00:28:09,600 --> 00:28:13,600 agreement for a deferred prosecution, possibly with some 501 00:28:13,600 --> 00:28:17,900 agreement that Chang Chen Zhao has to divest or something, but 502 00:28:17,900 --> 00:28:20,200 I expect that by Nance will still be able to continue 503 00:28:20,200 --> 00:28:24,700 operating in some form of conditional and them actually 504 00:28:24,700 --> 00:28:29,400 doing the things they say they do like kyc and every user like 505 00:28:29,400 --> 00:28:33,100 kicking people off for wash. Eating like not trading against 506 00:28:33,100 --> 00:28:35,400 their customers know, all the things they say they're already 507 00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:37,100 doing. They'll have to actually do it 508 00:28:37,100 --> 00:28:39,600 at that point. Like we seen every other time in 509 00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:43,600 exchange adds mandatory kyc the volume will go somewhere else. 510 00:28:43,700 --> 00:28:45,400 So that was the that was the first day. 511 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:49,100 I think it's worth saying, it's worth mentioning to people that 512 00:28:49,100 --> 00:28:53,100 we didn't pay our employer didn't even have to pay for our 513 00:28:53,100 --> 00:28:55,700 tickets. Yeah, thankfully we were 514 00:28:55,700 --> 00:28:57,800 speaking. So we got free tickets in there 515 00:28:57,800 --> 00:29:00,900 but normally the kind of tickets that we were granted would cost 516 00:29:01,000 --> 00:29:02,300 cost. I think you told me three 517 00:29:02,300 --> 00:29:04,800 thousand dollars. Yeah, I think that's what it was 518 00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:07,400 for the pro passes, so it's not cheap. 519 00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:10,000 Let me put it that way. This event is not cheap to get 520 00:29:10,000 --> 00:29:13,700 into, I think you're right in the idea like the badges where I 521 00:29:13,700 --> 00:29:16,500 was like, wow, these people are awkward and this is sad. 522 00:29:17,900 --> 00:29:21,500 If your whole goal, some kind of takes their cast our listeners, 523 00:29:21,500 --> 00:29:25,800 don't necessarily know why, the badges were said, hey, yeah, 524 00:29:25,800 --> 00:29:28,900 well, I mean, to me, there's, it's just this, like bright pink 525 00:29:29,000 --> 00:29:30,900 badge that you did wearing while walking. 526 00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:33,500 Around in public. That was screaming. 527 00:29:33,500 --> 00:29:36,000 Look, I met a cryptocurrency conference. 528 00:29:36,400 --> 00:29:39,100 I'm I'm one of the cool kids, I don't know. 529 00:29:39,100 --> 00:29:43,900 It just was incredibly sad to me, but I'm going to caveat this 530 00:29:43,900 --> 00:29:48,200 with if you were there to network like you said and you 531 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:50,700 know, if you're paying three thousand dollars or fifteen 532 00:29:50,700 --> 00:29:52,800 hundred dollars or two thousand dollars or whatever it costs, 533 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,600 you know to go there, I guess you better be networking because 534 00:29:56,600 --> 00:30:01,300 that's expensive then, you know I guess I get It. 535 00:30:01,300 --> 00:30:03,900 I still think it's a little unforgiving forgivable, but 536 00:30:03,900 --> 00:30:06,500 whatever, and I'm just commenting on some of the basic 537 00:30:06,500 --> 00:30:10,700 stuff here really quick, which is yeah, getting kind of I 538 00:30:10,700 --> 00:30:12,900 fucked. As soon as you walked into the 539 00:30:12,900 --> 00:30:18,700 convention center, by all of those booths, that made no 540 00:30:18,700 --> 00:30:20,800 sense. I mean, most of the stuff was 541 00:30:20,800 --> 00:30:23,400 stuff that we probably hadn't even heard of, but then, there 542 00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:31,500 was always stuff like, you know, Tron, Dow and circle and You 543 00:30:31,500 --> 00:30:32,900 name it. It was probably there. 544 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:35,900 Well. And and again, some of these 545 00:30:35,900 --> 00:30:38,800 booths were like explicitly deceptive. 546 00:30:38,900 --> 00:30:43,500 I tweeted about it where they said, like they had this chart 547 00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:47,700 that had them appearing to have like 80% of the spot volume of 548 00:30:47,700 --> 00:30:50,400 by Nance. When in actuality they have like 549 00:30:50,500 --> 00:30:54,200 12 percent of the spot volume of by Nance, right? 550 00:30:54,300 --> 00:30:56,600 But they couldn't show that on the graph because it would look 551 00:30:56,600 --> 00:30:58,300 bad. So they're bar instead looks 552 00:30:58,300 --> 00:31:01,300 basically the same as by Nance's, and that's Yes, that's 553 00:31:01,300 --> 00:31:04,100 a massive exchange. That's just fucking lying 554 00:31:04,100 --> 00:31:06,100 deceiving. I don't know because they were 555 00:31:06,100 --> 00:31:09,000 they were honest on the graph. It was just deceitful chart 556 00:31:09,000 --> 00:31:13,100 making it was chart crimes. It was not not necessarily that 557 00:31:13,100 --> 00:31:17,200 they lied. It was two thousand dollars for 558 00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,600 the pro passing out three. I was off okay. 559 00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,400 Two thousand dollars still I mean two thousand dollars is a 560 00:31:22,400 --> 00:31:26,300 very expensive ticket and you know we didn't have to pay for 561 00:31:26,300 --> 00:31:28,100 that. So I assume that skews our 562 00:31:28,100 --> 00:31:30,500 perspective of it. Yeah. 563 00:31:31,000 --> 00:31:33,800 It just wandering into the convention hall was kind of a 564 00:31:33,808 --> 00:31:37,200 trip especially for us being no coiners and having very little 565 00:31:37,900 --> 00:31:40,300 like, you know, there was a booth for bullish and a booth 566 00:31:40,300 --> 00:31:44,600 for new lending platforms and nft related stuff like stuff. 567 00:31:44,600 --> 00:31:48,300 We just, I mean, I didn't go up to a single booth and ask 568 00:31:48,300 --> 00:31:50,700 questions or do like I don't know if you did but I like that 569 00:31:50,700 --> 00:31:52,000 was not something I didn't. Okay. 570 00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:53,900 Yeah. That was not something I partook 571 00:31:53,900 --> 00:31:56,700 in maybe that would be worth it. If I went back again till I kind 572 00:31:56,700 --> 00:32:00,300 of push and see what what these people are saying about their 573 00:32:00,300 --> 00:32:03,600 stuff. If the CME have named be that 574 00:32:03,600 --> 00:32:05,600 was like, what are the odds? That interesting. 575 00:32:05,900 --> 00:32:07,100 Yeah. But like, what are the odds that 576 00:32:07,100 --> 00:32:09,700 the people working the booth are people who are going to be able 577 00:32:09,700 --> 00:32:12,000 to answer the type of questions we're going to have? 578 00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,300 I mean that might be part of the reason to ask, right? 579 00:32:14,300 --> 00:32:17,800 I don't know. But anyway we didn't do that the 580 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:23,000 second the the day I arrived second day for Bennett third 581 00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:27,700 day, five nation, and third day for the convention, the last day 582 00:32:27,700 --> 00:32:32,300 for the convention. I we the first thing Into was a 583 00:32:33,200 --> 00:32:40,100 thing hosted by Yachts, you and Anand Anand venkatesh God, I'm 584 00:32:40,100 --> 00:32:42,900 gonna fuck this up. I'm so sorry Anon for for 585 00:32:42,900 --> 00:32:47,300 screwing your last name of Vanka tests, Warren think it's Warren 586 00:32:48,500 --> 00:32:55,700 and yet see you is a in nft guy. He founded and is the CEO of an 587 00:32:55,700 --> 00:33:00,300 omocha Brands which is like one of the largest nft related 588 00:33:00,300 --> 00:33:02,900 companies. He's in the cryptocurrency 589 00:33:02,900 --> 00:33:05,000 industry. Most people, I know have not 590 00:33:05,000 --> 00:33:06,300 heard of it. They do. 591 00:33:07,100 --> 00:33:11,000 They were they like they did the sandbox and they were investors 592 00:33:11,000 --> 00:33:14,200 into Central and, and I don't know you name, you name a 593 00:33:14,200 --> 00:33:17,700 cryptocurrency related project. They probably have invested then 594 00:33:17,700 --> 00:33:21,300 and I know about them because they were listed on the 595 00:33:21,300 --> 00:33:26,400 Australian stock exchange and then you got delisted because 596 00:33:26,400 --> 00:33:28,900 they didn't provide their the proper paperwork. 597 00:33:29,700 --> 00:33:34,000 And since then there, Brand has only grown in value and it's 598 00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:36,200 just kind of other otherworldly an unbelievable. 599 00:33:36,200 --> 00:33:38,800 But anyway, we went to this talk with these two guys. 600 00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:43,400 And, you know, I don't mean to be rude and I know this is gonna 601 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,700 sound fucked up, but it was just completely vapid. 602 00:33:46,700 --> 00:33:51,000 It was absolutely just the most vapid discussion I've ever heard 603 00:33:51,000 --> 00:33:55,400 and that was my introduction to consensus was like these two 604 00:33:55,400 --> 00:33:58,500 guys who were supposed to be some of the richest people 605 00:33:58,500 --> 00:34:03,000 involved with n ftes. And They were saying nothing for 606 00:34:03,000 --> 00:34:07,300 a half hour, they said yapping like the the name of the session 607 00:34:07,300 --> 00:34:10,800 was who are you in web three, exploring tokenized identity, 608 00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:14,900 and their thesis initially presented during this and I'm 609 00:34:14,900 --> 00:34:17,300 doing my very best to like steal, man. 610 00:34:17,300 --> 00:34:21,000 What they were trying to say here is that the power of 611 00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,600 tokenize pseudonyms is that, you can wear it like an exosuit and 612 00:34:25,600 --> 00:34:27,600 then later someone else can wear it. 613 00:34:27,699 --> 00:34:31,699 You can sell it and someone else can borrow The Beneficial 614 00:34:31,699 --> 00:34:36,000 aspects of that identity but Anand when he was talking about 615 00:34:36,000 --> 00:34:40,800 it because he used to be to bird or dot eith part him and meta 616 00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,600 kovin with the two who bought people's 69 million dollar nft. 617 00:34:46,500 --> 00:34:50,400 He was talking about how he hasn't like he no longer uses 618 00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:54,100 that to bedoya Identity and it's supposedly for sale, but he 619 00:34:54,100 --> 00:34:56,000 really isn't ready to part with it. 620 00:34:56,100 --> 00:34:59,900 He grew attached to his identity because of course he fucking 621 00:34:59,900 --> 00:35:00,700 did. That's what a night. 622 00:35:00,900 --> 00:35:06,100 Identity is you dumb motherfuckers like the idea of 623 00:35:06,200 --> 00:35:10,900 putting enough of yourself into an identity that people like 624 00:35:10,900 --> 00:35:14,000 connect to and relate to, and then thinking you can just sell 625 00:35:14,000 --> 00:35:17,700 that to another person and that the identity will persist in 626 00:35:17,700 --> 00:35:19,800 the, that will be a good transaction for everyone 627 00:35:19,800 --> 00:35:22,000 involved. Is something I can't wrap my 628 00:35:22,000 --> 00:35:24,300 head around and like, even during the course of it, they 629 00:35:24,300 --> 00:35:26,700 never really strongly supported that. 630 00:35:26,700 --> 00:35:30,200 Yeah, I do want to. Yeah, I like, I might as well 631 00:35:30,200 --> 00:35:32,900 get into The details of this one because then I think we can just 632 00:35:32,900 --> 00:35:35,900 skip the other stupid ones that we that we heard for the most 633 00:35:35,900 --> 00:35:39,400 part I don't think we should talk briefly about the cftc. 634 00:35:39,600 --> 00:35:41,000 No, no. I want to talk about some of the 635 00:35:41,000 --> 00:35:45,400 better ones that I gotcha. But the I don't we don't need to 636 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,600 touch on any other stupid ones because I think that this 637 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:52,900 instant kind of sums up the bad ones in like imperfection and 638 00:35:52,900 --> 00:35:55,900 and some of the stuff I remember hearing and I wrote this down, 639 00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:00,700 they brought up, they brought up Harry Potter as an example of 640 00:36:00,800 --> 00:36:04,300 Like and as an example of a movie, not of a book guys, as an 641 00:36:04,300 --> 00:36:08,200 example of a movie, where no one remembers the person who played 642 00:36:08,200 --> 00:36:09,700 Harry Potter. But they all remember Harry 643 00:36:09,700 --> 00:36:11,900 Potter, buddy. I hate to break it to you. 644 00:36:11,900 --> 00:36:14,100 Everybody remembers who played Harry Potter. 645 00:36:14,100 --> 00:36:18,000 It was Daniel Radcliffe, like he is one of the most famous actors 646 00:36:18,000 --> 00:36:22,100 of Our Generation. Now, you know that like, I, it's 647 00:36:22,100 --> 00:36:25,800 a very, very odd suggestion. But okay, it was also a book 648 00:36:25,900 --> 00:36:28,000 first. So, I don't know, I don't know 649 00:36:28,000 --> 00:36:29,800 what we're talking about here. Like you're talking about the 650 00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,700 separation of Between Harry Potter and Daniel Radcliffe. 651 00:36:32,800 --> 00:36:35,900 Harry Potter was a fictional character invented by JK 652 00:36:35,900 --> 00:36:38,600 Rowling. So I like very odd comparison 653 00:36:38,600 --> 00:36:40,200 there. When the other contenders, the 654 00:36:40,200 --> 00:36:43,100 same thing with Iron Man. Yeah the other comparison by 655 00:36:43,100 --> 00:36:47,200 Anand was with was with Iron Man and Robert Downey jr. 656 00:36:47,300 --> 00:36:49,400 And how oh, Robert Downey. Jr. 657 00:36:49,400 --> 00:36:51,700 Is Iron Man. And he can't separate from his 658 00:36:51,700 --> 00:36:54,900 associate is actually making the opposite point, which was that 659 00:36:54,900 --> 00:36:56,800 Robert Downey jr. Can't separate from the Iron 660 00:36:56,800 --> 00:36:57,900 Man. Identity and Iron Man. 661 00:36:57,900 --> 00:36:59,600 Can't separate from Robert Downey jr. 662 00:36:59,800 --> 00:37:05,100 But then again Uh yeah Iron Man existed like 50 years before. 663 00:37:05,100 --> 00:37:08,100 Robert Downey jr. Played him so very odd. 664 00:37:08,100 --> 00:37:12,100 Again like just really strange suggestions, didn't make any 665 00:37:12,100 --> 00:37:15,800 sense and then they just did more and more of this quoting 666 00:37:15,800 --> 00:37:20,400 Hamlet but one of my favorite out was the wedding rings. 667 00:37:20,600 --> 00:37:25,400 When yeah, yeah, that was good. Said that and FTS or that like 668 00:37:25,400 --> 00:37:28,900 profile pics in some of these tokenized identity markers are 669 00:37:28,900 --> 00:37:32,600 like wedding rings because they Part of your identity, he wasn't 670 00:37:32,600 --> 00:37:36,200 wearing a wedding ring just as an aside and he said that you 671 00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:38,600 wouldn't buy a second-hand wedding ring and you wouldn't 672 00:37:38,600 --> 00:37:41,300 sell your wedding ring. And I just need to say I messed 673 00:37:41,300 --> 00:37:44,400 up because I bought my wife's diamond on consignment and 674 00:37:44,400 --> 00:37:47,500 apparently, according to yatsu, who wasn't wearing a wedding 675 00:37:47,500 --> 00:37:49,500 ring, I'm not allowed to do that. 676 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:50,800 Yeah. Yeah. 677 00:37:50,800 --> 00:37:54,500 It's bad luck according to him or something and and you can't 678 00:37:54,500 --> 00:37:57,700 sell them even though obviously there's a market for wedding 679 00:37:57,700 --> 00:37:59,600 rings. So I like, yeah. 680 00:37:59,700 --> 00:38:02,900 And again, it's not Not a particularly great market, 681 00:38:02,900 --> 00:38:04,300 right? Like often when you can actually 682 00:38:04,300 --> 00:38:07,100 get for a diamond will be far less than what it's Appraiser 683 00:38:07,100 --> 00:38:08,600 for. But that's because it's an 684 00:38:08,600 --> 00:38:11,300 illiquid specialty market like NF tease, you dumb 685 00:38:11,300 --> 00:38:13,000 motherfuckers. Yeah. 686 00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,000 Which they also, that was the only point they kept suggest 687 00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,700 they kept without really giving any reason why they kept 688 00:38:17,700 --> 00:38:21,500 suggesting, that illiquidity was great and that you don't need 689 00:38:21,500 --> 00:38:24,100 liquidity for these markets. I mean, okay, I don't know what 690 00:38:24,100 --> 00:38:27,000 to say about that. And then my favorite quote from 691 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:30,700 that was culture is the biggest TV L of any economy. 692 00:38:32,000 --> 00:38:34,900 Sorry for anyone who's under the total value locked of any 693 00:38:34,900 --> 00:38:38,100 economy. I forgot that what are you? 694 00:38:38,400 --> 00:38:40,400 What the fuck? Are you talking? 695 00:38:40,600 --> 00:38:43,600 Like I just don't even know how to respond to that kind of shit. 696 00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:45,200 So we're just going to move right past it anyway. 697 00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:48,300 Yeah, one of the worst talks I heard for sure and I oh, and I 698 00:38:48,300 --> 00:38:50,600 hope everyone else in the audience at the time, felt the 699 00:38:50,600 --> 00:38:52,700 same way, but I'm not sure. I don't, I don't think they 700 00:38:52,700 --> 00:38:56,600 necessarily did also in betrays. No number hands that went up 701 00:38:56,600 --> 00:39:00,800 when they asked how many of you own multiple profile picture? 702 00:39:00,900 --> 00:39:02,800 Tease. I think that crowd might have 703 00:39:02,800 --> 00:39:05,300 felt differently than we did about some of that gas. 704 00:39:05,400 --> 00:39:06,300 Sure. Sure. 705 00:39:07,500 --> 00:39:10,900 And then in between the other one that we went to, there was a 706 00:39:11,300 --> 00:39:13,400 boat. I'd was it was that the one with 707 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,900 bow, tie out, whatever that was bow-tied Bull. 708 00:39:16,200 --> 00:39:18,400 Somebody said we only saw something along the couple 709 00:39:18,400 --> 00:39:21,100 minutes of that. But yeah, that guy was talking 710 00:39:21,100 --> 00:39:25,100 about building Degen Island and then the moderator talked about 711 00:39:25,200 --> 00:39:28,500 just moving between Canada and the US to avoid taxes. 712 00:39:28,800 --> 00:39:32,500 Totally unhinged weird shit. But let's get to the good one 713 00:39:32,500 --> 00:39:36,400 now, so our buddy, Nick, can we talk about it? 714 00:39:36,700 --> 00:39:39,700 So sorry, so sorry, before you get to the good one, we need to 715 00:39:39,700 --> 00:39:42,000 be a little more specific about this tax scheme. 716 00:39:42,200 --> 00:39:45,500 The moderator for this session at consensus standing up on 717 00:39:45,500 --> 00:39:50,500 stage says, I have this great tax trick, I live on the border 718 00:39:50,800 --> 00:39:54,700 of Canada and the United States and I make sure to spend less 719 00:39:54,700 --> 00:39:59,500 than six months in either country and that way I owe taxes 720 00:39:59,500 --> 00:40:03,300 to no one. And sir, I'm not a lawyer. 721 00:40:03,300 --> 00:40:06,400 I'm certainly not a tax lawyer, but I have to tell you, I think 722 00:40:06,400 --> 00:40:09,600 both the United States and Canada are going to disagree 723 00:40:09,600 --> 00:40:13,300 with you on that. Yeah he owes a lot of taxes. 724 00:40:13,500 --> 00:40:18,200 Here's a lot but whatever man, he'll figure that out and do 725 00:40:18,200 --> 00:40:22,100 time on his own. Let's get to the font the the 726 00:40:22,100 --> 00:40:24,100 more interesting discussions that were had. 727 00:40:24,500 --> 00:40:27,100 So our boy Nick over at coin desk, who we've had on here 728 00:40:27,100 --> 00:40:30,800 before I think we had a moment to talk about jernt like doing 729 00:40:30,900 --> 00:40:34,000 Journalism in cryptocurrency and how you know how difficult it 730 00:40:34,008 --> 00:40:39,300 can be the you know the accusations that can't be just 731 00:40:39,300 --> 00:40:42,000 being a coin desk. Gets you as a journalist I think 732 00:40:42,000 --> 00:40:44,900 we talked about some of that stuff with him but he got to 733 00:40:44,900 --> 00:40:50,100 interview Christy Goldsmith, Romero from the cftc and I wrote 734 00:40:50,100 --> 00:40:52,400 down some quotes. But why don't you go ahead and 735 00:40:52,400 --> 00:40:54,400 get us started? I'm right about a lot of things. 736 00:40:54,400 --> 00:40:57,300 A lot of the time and Christy Romero helped back that up. 737 00:40:57,300 --> 00:41:01,400 Like I suggested earlier last year that At some point 738 00:41:01,400 --> 00:41:04,900 exchanges were basically going to start blocking deposits from 739 00:41:04,900 --> 00:41:07,200 mixers. And one of the first things that 740 00:41:07,200 --> 00:41:11,000 Christie talked about was, how regulated entities need to 741 00:41:11,000 --> 00:41:14,400 distance themselves from mixers then added. 742 00:41:14,400 --> 00:41:17,600 It's a national security risk to not be able to verify like the 743 00:41:17,600 --> 00:41:21,000 identity in the chain through it and that these exchanges. 744 00:41:21,000 --> 00:41:24,500 And these Regulators have a national security interest in 745 00:41:24,500 --> 00:41:27,700 making sure they're distant from these mixers. 746 00:41:28,400 --> 00:41:30,800 And what's Wild is she pushed this? 747 00:41:30,900 --> 00:41:33,600 Through the discussion about defy as well. 748 00:41:33,800 --> 00:41:35,700 So when they started talking about defying, the defy 749 00:41:35,700 --> 00:41:39,900 contracts, like that there was the same recommendation that 750 00:41:39,900 --> 00:41:42,800 these protocols should not be allowing things associated with 751 00:41:42,800 --> 00:41:45,100 mixers. And there was even kind of the 752 00:41:45,100 --> 00:41:49,200 implication that these protocols have a responsibility to know 753 00:41:49,200 --> 00:41:52,900 who is using them. So it seems like at least one 754 00:41:52,900 --> 00:41:57,300 commissioner at the cftc. Things defy should be doing kyc, 755 00:41:57,500 --> 00:42:00,300 she specifically said, because I have some good quotes from her, 756 00:42:00,500 --> 00:42:03,600 she She specifically said that Financial privacy is good, but 757 00:42:03,600 --> 00:42:06,200 it's not the same as anonymity which I thought was like a 758 00:42:06,200 --> 00:42:10,100 really interesting point to make like she makes a good point. 759 00:42:10,200 --> 00:42:13,800 I don't know how you solve for that in the in the dystopian 760 00:42:13,800 --> 00:42:16,100 future that we are quickly quickly approaching, but is a 761 00:42:16,100 --> 00:42:18,600 really interesting. And, and I think true statement 762 00:42:18,600 --> 00:42:23,900 she's right, you know, I'm not sure she is, I think she's nine. 763 00:42:23,900 --> 00:42:27,400 I'm not releasing data anonymizing data is different 764 00:42:27,400 --> 00:42:28,300 than doing it. Okay. 765 00:42:28,300 --> 00:42:30,200 Wise Here, Am L and I think that's right. 766 00:42:30,200 --> 00:42:31,800 That's yet. Tell you the point that she's 767 00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:35,700 trying to make. I don't maybe maybe I'm speaking 768 00:42:35,700 --> 00:42:38,600 too much for her, I don't know but like as I look through her 769 00:42:38,600 --> 00:42:43,200 comments here, you know, like they're not they're just not 770 00:42:43,200 --> 00:42:45,100 that silly like enforcement proof. 771 00:42:45,100 --> 00:42:49,400 So is following all the laws like that is a pretty damn solid 772 00:42:49,400 --> 00:42:52,300 statement of fact, right? Enforcement proof does not mean 773 00:42:52,300 --> 00:42:56,300 like oh we're going to make it so that that SEC and the cftc 774 00:42:56,300 --> 00:42:59,100 you'll never know who did this like what connects Satoshi 775 00:42:59,100 --> 00:43:01,500 Nakamoto like good fun. Fucking luck. 776 00:43:01,500 --> 00:43:04,800 Dude, you're probably not the next Satoshi Nakamoto and like 777 00:43:04,900 --> 00:43:08,500 that, the best advice you could possibly give as a regulator is 778 00:43:08,500 --> 00:43:10,800 to say, like if you don't want us to come down on you, make 779 00:43:10,800 --> 00:43:12,700 sure you dot your I's and cross your t's. 780 00:43:12,700 --> 00:43:14,600 It's reasonable. Almost. 781 00:43:14,600 --> 00:43:17,600 Everything is commodity, it can be a security to a lot of these 782 00:43:17,600 --> 00:43:18,700 things are going to be Securities. 783 00:43:18,700 --> 00:43:21,100 I just, I heard a lot of stuff that was very reasonable and 784 00:43:21,100 --> 00:43:25,300 rational, yeah, so, yes, the the enforcement prove actually was a 785 00:43:25,300 --> 00:43:28,400 specific reference to a specific cftc case. 786 00:43:28,800 --> 00:43:34,700 We've talked about on here be 0 X / Cookie Dough because in some 787 00:43:34,700 --> 00:43:38,200 of their internal Communications when they preparing to hand over 788 00:43:38,500 --> 00:43:42,000 the bzx protocol to what was originally in the bzx Dow later. 789 00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,200 Cookie dough, was that this will make us enforcement proof and 790 00:43:46,200 --> 00:43:49,600 the cftc press release. When this came out was like, 791 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,000 look at this isn't enforcement proof and none of this is, and 792 00:43:54,000 --> 00:43:56,200 in the discussion surrounding who keyed out, there were some 793 00:43:56,200 --> 00:43:59,600 interesting comments made, she talked about how it will come 794 00:43:59,600 --> 00:44:02,100 down to the markers of decentralization. 795 00:44:02,200 --> 00:44:06,500 But then added even if it's like fully decentralized, where 796 00:44:06,500 --> 00:44:10,100 perhaps, the individual members can't be held accountable, the 797 00:44:10,100 --> 00:44:14,400 cftc will still attempt to hold the organization accountable. 798 00:44:14,500 --> 00:44:18,000 So I thought was an interesting comment and then added that 799 00:44:18,000 --> 00:44:21,700 these defy protocols need to register if they're doing 800 00:44:21,700 --> 00:44:24,000 activity that requires registration. 801 00:44:24,500 --> 00:44:27,700 And so like this in combination with the comments around privacy 802 00:44:27,700 --> 00:44:31,400 and anonymity in defy makes me think that her conception Defy 803 00:44:31,400 --> 00:44:35,100 is not really defy, right? Like what the cftc is imagining 804 00:44:35,100 --> 00:44:38,200 here is privacy in the sense of like a bank. 805 00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,900 Offers you Financial privacy, they don't share your 806 00:44:40,900 --> 00:44:44,000 transactions with most people but when the government when I 807 00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,200 transactions, they can effortlessly get them. 808 00:44:46,400 --> 00:44:49,100 So you're not Anonymous, but you're relatively private. 809 00:44:49,100 --> 00:44:51,600 I think that's the standard she was reaching for. 810 00:44:51,900 --> 00:44:54,900 I think that she I maybe am. Yeah again, maybe I'm putting 811 00:44:55,300 --> 00:44:57,400 too much emphasis on what I think she was trying to 812 00:44:57,400 --> 00:45:00,000 emphasize, but I do think she was mostly talking about 813 00:45:00,000 --> 00:45:02,300 centralized. Actors exchanges we're talking 814 00:45:02,300 --> 00:45:05,700 about lenders exchanges, like people spinning up their own 815 00:45:05,700 --> 00:45:09,700 cryptocurrencies and doing icos and you know or Dows doing it 816 00:45:09,700 --> 00:45:11,300 under the umbrella of a corporation. 817 00:45:11,300 --> 00:45:14,600 Like at some point these people have to acknowledge like they 818 00:45:14,600 --> 00:45:18,300 are not sufficiently decentralized at all and then 819 00:45:18,300 --> 00:45:21,300 something is going to happen. Regulators will do something but 820 00:45:21,400 --> 00:45:23,800 they absolutely will. Yeah, we've talked about this a 821 00:45:23,808 --> 00:45:26,900 little bit on here before. Like inner Wookie do episode. 822 00:45:26,900 --> 00:45:30,700 I was referring to before but like these cases have a serious. 823 00:45:30,800 --> 00:45:34,600 He's in for many doubts and especially their governance 824 00:45:34,600 --> 00:45:37,600 token holders because in the case of Uki, do they held it as 825 00:45:37,600 --> 00:45:41,600 an unincorporated association? And each of the governance, 826 00:45:41,700 --> 00:45:45,200 member participants were potentially liable for the 827 00:45:45,200 --> 00:45:48,500 actions of the doubt even if they voted against the law 828 00:45:48,500 --> 00:45:51,300 breaking action, right? That was the like thrust of the 829 00:45:51,300 --> 00:45:54,700 cftc case against cookie dough. And their version of holding the 830 00:45:54,700 --> 00:45:58,300 organization accountable, there was also a class action lawsuit 831 00:45:58,300 --> 00:46:03,300 against cookie dough in. Nia and recently a judge there 832 00:46:03,500 --> 00:46:08,900 held o governance chokin holders potentially liable for the 833 00:46:08,900 --> 00:46:12,900 actions of the organization even if they did not participate in 834 00:46:12,900 --> 00:46:15,700 voting. So if you have the token, even 835 00:46:15,700 --> 00:46:19,100 if you never vote it or even if you vote against law-breaking, 836 00:46:19,200 --> 00:46:23,200 you can still be liable for the law-breaking that occurs. 837 00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:27,500 And so, if those cases end up being seen through to the end, 838 00:46:27,600 --> 00:46:33,000 the implications on like token-based Governance and dowse 839 00:46:33,200 --> 00:46:36,500 is massive. And my impression almost 840 00:46:36,500 --> 00:46:40,700 entirely unappreciated by people who participate in dowser. 841 00:46:40,700 --> 00:46:43,500 Hold governance tokens. That's that's right. 842 00:46:44,200 --> 00:46:48,200 Yeah, the last one I want to personally discuss and you know 843 00:46:48,400 --> 00:46:51,900 feel free to bring one up. After this I went to a talk 844 00:46:51,900 --> 00:46:54,900 called Turf War cftc versus the SEC. 845 00:46:55,600 --> 00:46:57,200 I apologize. I got the name wrong earlier. 846 00:46:57,200 --> 00:46:58,800 It's Dan Burke of, it's not horrible. 847 00:46:58,800 --> 00:47:03,800 It's Dan berkovitz. Who has worked for the cftc and 848 00:47:03,800 --> 00:47:07,600 the SEC. Brian Quinn tense who worked for 849 00:47:07,600 --> 00:47:13,300 the cftc and now is the one of the I don't know general counsel 850 00:47:13,700 --> 00:47:21,900 for a 16 Zedd and then Ryan vondrak, who is a, I don't know 851 00:47:22,000 --> 00:47:25,200 like a Securities related executive. 852 00:47:25,300 --> 00:47:29,300 At Citadel, I went in thinking that it was just going to be a 853 00:47:29,300 --> 00:47:32,000 bunch of people talking about how Regulators have been doing 854 00:47:32,000 --> 00:47:36,100 this entirely wrong but I think I was surprised in a really nice 855 00:47:36,100 --> 00:47:37,300 way. For once. 856 00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:41,600 Brian Quinn tense, did the classic like a 16z bullshit. 857 00:47:42,500 --> 00:47:46,900 He was very much driving the narrative that there's no 858 00:47:46,900 --> 00:47:53,000 Clarity only enforcement and and that this would ultimately hurt. 859 00:47:53,000 --> 00:47:55,700 So many businesses. One of his examples was, if 860 00:47:55,700 --> 00:47:58,300 ethos is security than the Futures contracts trading on the 861 00:47:58,300 --> 00:48:01,000 CME are illegal. The SEC is not for Right. 862 00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:04,000 And what the law is that got Applause. 863 00:48:04,100 --> 00:48:08,200 But then thankfully what I appreciated was that berkovitz 864 00:48:08,200 --> 00:48:12,000 Dan berkovitz said until the SEC says ether is a security. 865 00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:14,300 It's legal for it to be traded on the CME. 866 00:48:14,500 --> 00:48:19,100 And then Ryan, Ryan vondrak came in and said until the SEC 867 00:48:19,100 --> 00:48:21,100 officially weighs in, it's a commodity. 868 00:48:21,300 --> 00:48:25,100 So it was like you have this. You have this guy at a 16z 869 00:48:25,100 --> 00:48:29,400 trying to spin this narrative that like, the SEC isn't doing 870 00:48:29,400 --> 00:48:32,700 their job their Miserably. And then you had both people who 871 00:48:32,700 --> 00:48:37,700 had worked with the SEC worked with the cftc or for this, both 872 00:48:37,700 --> 00:48:42,100 of those government agencies saying, like, dude, that is not 873 00:48:42,100 --> 00:48:43,900 true. Like they're not going to get 874 00:48:43,900 --> 00:48:47,100 hurt if this changes, they're just going to have to change 875 00:48:47,100 --> 00:48:49,100 their product. Like they're going to have to 876 00:48:49,100 --> 00:48:51,900 change things, register things differently and do things 877 00:48:51,900 --> 00:48:53,200 differently. It's not like they're doing 878 00:48:53,200 --> 00:48:56,700 anything illegal right now and I appreciated that. 879 00:48:57,400 --> 00:49:00,000 Dan berkovitz also said the legislative solution won't 880 00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:02,300 solve. Securities laws, the agency's 881 00:49:02,300 --> 00:49:05,400 role has been consistent across administration's, it isn't 882 00:49:05,400 --> 00:49:08,100 partisan, which I thought was interesting, I guess I don't 883 00:49:08,100 --> 00:49:13,200 know you and I think Jay Clayton appeared to not do much the 884 00:49:13,200 --> 00:49:18,200 feeling they say. Listen, listen saying, any part 885 00:49:18,300 --> 00:49:21,700 of the executive branch that is led by someone who is 886 00:49:21,700 --> 00:49:26,500 politically appointed is, nonpartisan is fucking stupid. 887 00:49:26,500 --> 00:49:28,400 Of course, it's fucking partisan. 888 00:49:28,700 --> 00:49:32,000 Of course, it's fucking political Politically appointed 889 00:49:32,000 --> 00:49:35,200 and they depend on their political patrons in order to 890 00:49:35,200 --> 00:49:38,500 maintain their positions. Of course, it's partisan. 891 00:49:38,700 --> 00:49:44,100 I guess part of why he's saying that is because oops is because 892 00:49:44,200 --> 00:49:50,500 if I look at this, he got appointed by Donald Trump do 893 00:49:50,500 --> 00:49:53,800 serve as commissioner of the cftc in 2018. 894 00:49:54,000 --> 00:49:57,500 And then he announced he would serve as general counsel for the 895 00:49:57,500 --> 00:50:02,000 SEC in October. Or of 2021. 896 00:50:02,200 --> 00:50:06,000 So he's working for these two different administration's and 897 00:50:06,000 --> 00:50:08,000 it doesn't seem to him. I am sure. 898 00:50:08,000 --> 00:50:11,000 It doesn't seem to be a partisan issue because clearly he's able 899 00:50:11,000 --> 00:50:13,600 to work for both parties. I mean good for him, I don't 900 00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:15,700 think you're right. That's like generally not the 901 00:50:15,700 --> 00:50:20,400 case but okay and then I think one of the other huge things 902 00:50:20,400 --> 00:50:23,800 that was said during that talk that I think people might want 903 00:50:23,800 --> 00:50:29,400 to give some thought to was that vondrak said, we're going to be 904 00:50:29,400 --> 00:50:31,800 seeing an additional wave of Forcement actions more 905 00:50:31,800 --> 00:50:34,700 meaningful enforcement actions. Legislation isn't close to being 906 00:50:34,700 --> 00:50:37,500 materialized. There isn't a lot of oxygen in 907 00:50:37,500 --> 00:50:39,600 the air to compel a legislative solution. 908 00:50:39,600 --> 00:50:43,300 So now through 2023 will be enforcement actions dictating 909 00:50:43,300 --> 00:50:44,900 The Narrative. I thought that was very 910 00:50:44,900 --> 00:50:48,700 interesting and if he's right bummer, you know, bummer for a 911 00:50:48,700 --> 00:50:52,300 bunch of a bunch of people launching their their 912 00:50:52,300 --> 00:50:55,000 cryptocurrency stuff right now because they might be getting in 913 00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:57,400 trouble. And so yeah that was the last 914 00:50:57,400 --> 00:50:59,000 one I went to. Is there any more that you 915 00:50:59,000 --> 00:51:01,700 wanted to go into know? No, I mean, right after that, 916 00:51:01,700 --> 00:51:03,900 bowtie Bowl. When you were talking about you 917 00:51:03,900 --> 00:51:07,700 and I both thought about sitting through yatsu of an omocha 918 00:51:07,700 --> 00:51:09,600 Brands. Oh, and just for anyone whose 919 00:51:09,600 --> 00:51:12,600 fans at some of my videos on the channel Fred should best 920 00:51:12,600 --> 00:51:17,800 invested in an omocha Brands. That'll be a fun fact, for like 921 00:51:17,900 --> 00:51:20,300 the few temasek started, temasek. 922 00:51:20,300 --> 00:51:21,100 Yes. Be real. 923 00:51:21,100 --> 00:51:25,800 Like, I'm some kind of SEC is the Singapore like one of the 924 00:51:25,800 --> 00:51:27,600 national. I don't know what to call it. 925 00:51:27,600 --> 00:51:32,800 National Venture funds. So Sovereign wealth fund, 926 00:51:32,900 --> 00:51:36,800 Sovereign wealth funds. Fred is a bad investor but like, 927 00:51:36,800 --> 00:51:39,400 maybe an omocha clearly is wooing. 928 00:51:39,400 --> 00:51:40,700 A lot of people, I don't, I don't know. 929 00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,700 Oh, no sure. I'm just chilling. 930 00:51:43,700 --> 00:51:49,900 My videos. The other session that I thought 931 00:51:49,900 --> 00:51:54,300 about going to was where is web three-headed which featured 932 00:51:54,300 --> 00:51:57,500 yatsu again. But I sat there for like two 933 00:51:57,500 --> 00:52:00,600 minutes and he started making almost the exact same point. 934 00:52:00,700 --> 00:52:04,100 Points word for word as he did in the tokenized identity 935 00:52:04,100 --> 00:52:06,600 session. And so then I stood up walked 936 00:52:06,600 --> 00:52:09,800 away and found someone I enjoyed talking to talk to you for the 937 00:52:09,800 --> 00:52:13,500 next 45 minutes because that was far better than sitting in the 938 00:52:13,500 --> 00:52:15,100 session. Yeah. 939 00:52:15,100 --> 00:52:17,300 And around this out, I do want to say that we got to hang out 940 00:52:17,308 --> 00:52:19,400 with some really awesome, wonderful individuals. 941 00:52:19,600 --> 00:52:22,400 We spent time with David Z Morris who moderated a panel. 942 00:52:22,400 --> 00:52:25,300 We were on. That was really wonderful our 943 00:52:25,300 --> 00:52:28,700 co-panelists. It was humans son wasn't yes. 944 00:52:29,200 --> 00:52:32,400 Former employee for Tara We had a blast talking to him and 945 00:52:32,400 --> 00:52:36,300 opening his eyes up to the corrupt, corruption and gross 946 00:52:36,300 --> 00:52:39,600 nature of American politics. He was having his mind melted, 947 00:52:39,600 --> 00:52:42,600 it was great. We got to hang out with Nick, we 948 00:52:42,600 --> 00:52:44,400 got to hang out with Leo, Schwartz from 4chan. 949 00:52:44,400 --> 00:52:47,600 We got to hang out with David Jaffe, Bellamy from The New York 950 00:52:47,600 --> 00:52:52,700 Times got to spend time some time with James safer, over at 951 00:52:53,300 --> 00:52:55,700 Bloomberg blue Brew. We got to hang out with a bunch 952 00:52:55,700 --> 00:52:59,800 of journalists and cool people who we burb from cryptocurrency 953 00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,800 Twitter. We we had, we had a good time. 954 00:53:02,800 --> 00:53:06,900 We got to spend a lot of good nice moments with people. 955 00:53:06,900 --> 00:53:09,300 We liked. So the conference had that going 956 00:53:09,300 --> 00:53:11,300 for it and I liked that about it. 957 00:53:12,300 --> 00:53:15,100 Yeah. The final thing I want to add 958 00:53:15,100 --> 00:53:17,600 were closing in on an hour here. So I want to get this out of the 959 00:53:17,607 --> 00:53:20,600 way quickly. I also attended another separate 960 00:53:20,600 --> 00:53:24,200 conference hosted by offshore alert, which is, if you're 961 00:53:24,200 --> 00:53:26,200 unfamiliar with it, I recommend everybody check it out. 962 00:53:26,200 --> 00:53:30,400 It's a really great service offshore, alert.com will put it 963 00:53:30,400 --> 00:53:32,200 in. Our description of the episode 964 00:53:33,000 --> 00:53:37,200 David March and two runs it. He's an English dude who lives 965 00:53:37,200 --> 00:53:39,200 out in. I don't know if it's the BVI or 966 00:53:39,200 --> 00:53:42,400 we're in the Caribbean, but he basically is constantly 967 00:53:42,400 --> 00:53:47,300 monitoring Caribbean, corporate corporate stuff, legal action, 968 00:53:48,000 --> 00:53:51,200 exit scams, all sorts of stuff, he's keeping a pulse on the 969 00:53:51,200 --> 00:53:53,600 Caribbean because that's where a lot of this corporate 970 00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,100 malfeasance goes on. And he did a conference in Miami 971 00:53:57,100 --> 00:53:59,700 this this year. And I got invited again to speak 972 00:53:59,700 --> 00:54:02,000 which was lovely. I was sitting on a panel with 973 00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:07,000 Dirty Bubble media and been foldy from The Wall Street 974 00:54:07,000 --> 00:54:08,600 Journal from The Wall Street Journal. 975 00:54:09,000 --> 00:54:11,600 And yeah, again, I got to meet some wonderful people and sit 976 00:54:11,600 --> 00:54:14,000 through some crazy. Interesting talks. 977 00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:18,300 One of the ones that I hope I can get a chance to delve into 978 00:54:18,300 --> 00:54:22,500 deeper that I thought was fascinating and if any of it 979 00:54:22,500 --> 00:54:26,800 pans out the way they think it will is going to be a wake-up 980 00:54:26,800 --> 00:54:28,600 call for cryptocurrency enthusiasts. 981 00:54:28,600 --> 00:54:31,400 I'm not sure I buy into it but it Interesting to hear there 982 00:54:31,400 --> 00:54:34,900 were all these asset recovery folks, lawyers Etc. 983 00:54:35,200 --> 00:54:39,400 And I raised my hand and I asked them a question because their 984 00:54:39,400 --> 00:54:44,000 talk was about how about asset recovery and cryptocurrency and 985 00:54:44,400 --> 00:54:47,000 and one of the things they were saying was that it eventually 986 00:54:47,000 --> 00:54:51,100 will be cheaper and more efficient than traditional asset 987 00:54:51,100 --> 00:54:53,300 recovery. And so I kind of wanted to push 988 00:54:53,300 --> 00:54:55,400 back on that. I wasn't sure about it and I 989 00:54:55,400 --> 00:54:57,500 said hat like how can you make that? 990 00:54:57,500 --> 00:55:01,700 How can you make that assumption when When there's so many 991 00:55:01,700 --> 00:55:05,100 examples of asset recovery, taking a long, insane amount of 992 00:55:05,107 --> 00:55:08,400 time and people still not getting their assets back and 993 00:55:08,400 --> 00:55:11,600 oftentimes the assets being like gone forever. 994 00:55:11,600 --> 00:55:15,500 I if we look at Mount Cox like they push back and said, well, 995 00:55:15,600 --> 00:55:18,100 the assets are worth far more than they were at the time of 996 00:55:18,100 --> 00:55:19,800 the loss. And I'm like, okay. 997 00:55:19,800 --> 00:55:22,900 Like that's pure luck. But okay, what about not to 998 00:55:22,900 --> 00:55:26,200 nominated against whatnot? A nominated against actually 999 00:55:26,200 --> 00:55:28,300 Queen the lost. A bunch of their money though, 1000 00:55:28,300 --> 00:55:32,000 right? Exactly, so, There was Mount Cox 1001 00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:36,300 and then I brought up quadriga CX, which I don't know if anyone 1002 00:55:36,400 --> 00:55:40,200 if they've listened to our quadriga episode or if they're 1003 00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:42,900 familiar with quadriga crypto currency exchange based out of 1004 00:55:42,900 --> 00:55:47,100 Canada, the founder died in India under strange mysterious 1005 00:55:47,100 --> 00:55:49,900 circumstances. But outside of that his exchange 1006 00:55:49,900 --> 00:55:53,400 was insolvent before he died. And the reason part of the 1007 00:55:53,400 --> 00:55:56,400 reason it was insolvent was because he had sent 60,000 a 1008 00:55:56,408 --> 00:56:00,200 theory, I believe, it was 60,000 aetherium to the wrong address. 1009 00:56:01,200 --> 00:56:04,100 And yeah, that kind of cost him everything. 1010 00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:08,600 And those those will never be. You can't get those etherium 1011 00:56:08,600 --> 00:56:09,600 back. That's what I was saying. 1012 00:56:09,600 --> 00:56:12,100 I was like, those are theorem are gone forever and and the 1013 00:56:12,100 --> 00:56:15,900 asset recovery lawyers were like, well, that's just not 1014 00:56:15,900 --> 00:56:17,400 true. And I was like, well how do you 1015 00:56:17,408 --> 00:56:19,700 mean that's not true? Like, it's sent to the wrong 1016 00:56:19,700 --> 00:56:21,400 address. How could you possibly get it 1017 00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:22,600 back? How are you going to, you going 1018 00:56:22,600 --> 00:56:24,300 to wake up the address? Or so, like, what are you 1019 00:56:24,300 --> 00:56:26,000 talking about? And they were like, well no, you 1020 00:56:26,000 --> 00:56:30,400 just compel the government to force, the note, operators, to 1021 00:56:30,900 --> 00:56:34,800 To make sure that those assets are essentially sent back to 1022 00:56:34,800 --> 00:56:38,100 where they're supposed to be and hand it out to the people, 1023 00:56:38,100 --> 00:56:41,400 they're supposed to be handed out to, I mean, look if the 1024 00:56:41,400 --> 00:56:45,600 government can compel every node, operator of every 1025 00:56:45,600 --> 00:56:50,700 cryptocurrency to do their will you know, like I'm going to be 1026 00:56:50,700 --> 00:56:52,900 fascinated if that's something that happens. 1027 00:56:53,100 --> 00:56:58,400 It kind of destroys the entire use, case for cryptocurrency. 1028 00:56:58,400 --> 00:57:03,000 So, do you guess, do you? Remember our episodes table 1029 00:57:03,000 --> 00:57:04,600 coins? Wilfork your chain. 1030 00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:08,200 If they went to fork or my article goddamn before King 1031 00:57:08,200 --> 00:57:11,400 stable Queens because like basically what they're proposing 1032 00:57:11,400 --> 00:57:15,600 is effectively a dowel level hard Fork each and every time 1033 00:57:15,600 --> 00:57:17,400 they need to recover these assets, right? 1034 00:57:18,000 --> 00:57:21,500 And my thesis in that episode of, this is back in like the 30s 1035 00:57:21,500 --> 00:57:25,000 or something like that. Was that it's actually easier to 1036 00:57:25,000 --> 00:57:27,800 force a hard for it now because you don't pressure the note 1037 00:57:27,800 --> 00:57:30,200 operators. What you do is you press your 1038 00:57:30,200 --> 00:57:36,400 circle You tell Circle, you need to move to this new version of 1039 00:57:36,400 --> 00:57:38,900 the chain. This is the version of the chain 1040 00:57:38,900 --> 00:57:41,300 that you will recognize. And on this version of the 1041 00:57:41,300 --> 00:57:44,800 chain, we made this change. And then the other note, 1042 00:57:44,800 --> 00:57:48,800 operators need to follow Circle because circle is so important 1043 00:57:48,800 --> 00:57:51,800 to the ecosystem. Built on top of etherium Circle. 1044 00:57:51,800 --> 00:57:54,800 Collateralized Maker. Dow circle is built into so many 1045 00:57:54,800 --> 00:57:59,100 protocols that if that circle is basically the deciding factor in 1046 00:57:59,100 --> 00:58:03,800 a fork and So but I don't think they can compel every note 1047 00:58:03,800 --> 00:58:07,000 operator, but circles are u.s. domiciled company. 1048 00:58:07,200 --> 00:58:09,700 Sure circles, the exception to the rule here. 1049 00:58:09,700 --> 00:58:13,300 And I think what you're suggesting would ultimately we 1050 00:58:13,300 --> 00:58:15,500 would see the same kind of thing that we see with crypto currency 1051 00:58:15,500 --> 00:58:17,900 exchanges when they have to enforce rules finally. 1052 00:58:17,900 --> 00:58:20,000 Right. Which is not that like oh well 1053 00:58:20,000 --> 00:58:23,300 now now all the exchanges are following the rules, awesome. 1054 00:58:23,500 --> 00:58:27,100 No, of course not dude. Everybody please bit Max. 1055 00:58:27,100 --> 00:58:31,400 When bit, Max has to Institute kyc, am everyone flees Bitfenix 1056 00:58:31,600 --> 00:58:35,900 when bitfenix starts instituting KY, caml Finance was so afraid 1057 00:58:35,900 --> 00:58:40,000 to Institute KY C, ml properly that was on these emails. 1058 00:58:40,000 --> 00:58:43,100 They're like we don't want our customers to just leave. 1059 00:58:43,100 --> 00:58:48,900 So I like you can see how this plays out and I think that like 1060 00:58:49,100 --> 00:58:51,300 yeah, you can compel Circle to do it. 1061 00:58:51,400 --> 00:58:53,600 But then you just have tether getting stronger and stronger 1062 00:58:53,600 --> 00:58:56,600 and stronger don't you? And you're going to have some 1063 00:58:56,600 --> 00:58:59,500 other operator that's going to if tether starts to obey the 1064 00:58:59,500 --> 00:59:00,500 rules. Then you're going to have some 1065 00:59:00,700 --> 00:59:03,500 Other stable coin come in that's going to be willing to bend and 1066 00:59:03,500 --> 00:59:04,100 break them. I mean. 1067 00:59:04,100 --> 00:59:07,100 Well, usd's already really I think you are really missing 1068 00:59:07,100 --> 00:59:10,800 that fundamentally what? I think this leads to is the 1069 00:59:10,800 --> 00:59:14,600 conclusion that stable coins. Fundamentally undermine. 1070 00:59:14,700 --> 00:59:18,300 The censorship resistance of any chain there on and since 1071 00:59:18,300 --> 00:59:22,900 censorship resistance is the fundamental value add for 1072 00:59:22,900 --> 00:59:27,000 cryptocurrency, is that if your chain has stable coins on it, it 1073 00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:29,700 is worse than it would be otherwise. 1074 00:59:30,200 --> 00:59:31,800 Yeah, I think Probably an opinion. 1075 00:59:32,100 --> 00:59:35,500 I've felt about cryptocurrency. I do think that stable coins 1076 00:59:35,700 --> 00:59:39,000 from the very beginning have introduced an unnecessary risk 1077 00:59:39,000 --> 00:59:42,200 to the entire cryptocurrency industry and I'm I'm much more 1078 00:59:42,200 --> 00:59:46,300 keen to to see them disappear for the most part. 1079 00:59:46,300 --> 00:59:48,600 I know you're going to have people trying to use them and 1080 00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:49,800 they're going to continue to exist. 1081 00:59:49,800 --> 00:59:53,300 No matter what. But I do think that the industry 1082 00:59:53,300 --> 00:59:55,000 would be better off without them. 1083 00:59:55,700 --> 00:59:57,100 That's fine. That's just my opinion. 1084 00:59:57,100 --> 00:59:59,700 Well, it doesn't really that is matter but that is except for 1085 01:00:00,700 --> 01:00:04,200 That is except forecast, coin cash, if you have a chain out 1086 01:00:04,200 --> 01:00:08,200 there and you want to make your chain better cast coin, cash is 1087 01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:11,300 the way to do it. That's the one fully legit and 1088 01:00:11,300 --> 01:00:13,100 censorship resistance table coin. 1089 01:00:13,300 --> 01:00:15,200 It's an algorithmic stable coin though. 1090 01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:18,100 I mean cast coin cash. Only the only way cast coin 1091 01:00:18,100 --> 01:00:20,600 cache operates is because it's collateralized with Cass coin 1092 01:00:21,000 --> 01:00:28,100 and the Oracle system that we have called Cask or well and 1093 01:00:28,100 --> 01:00:30,500 sometimes sometimes we have to call up, jump to help. 1094 01:00:30,800 --> 01:00:33,800 But they'll always help us out so that they found a big deal. 1095 01:00:33,800 --> 01:00:36,600 I mean help everybody out. So and you know, while we did 1096 01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:40,400 lose one of our major backers who's now under house arrest, 1097 01:00:40,400 --> 01:00:42,600 unfortunately we don't have to get into detail details about 1098 01:00:42,600 --> 01:00:45,800 that cast. Coin is been fine. 1099 01:00:45,900 --> 01:00:49,400 Like we don't even think the price and I do think deal 1100 01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:51,700 liquidity. I think a liquidity is a good 1101 01:00:51,700 --> 01:00:53,500 thing. And that's part of why I cast 1102 01:00:53,500 --> 01:00:56,300 going is done. So, so well, despite the crypto 1103 01:00:56,300 --> 01:01:00,000 winter and ya next year, not only are we going to be at 1104 01:01:00,000 --> 01:01:01,700 consensus? I think I think ask when is 1105 01:01:01,707 --> 01:01:03,700 probably going to end up sponsoring the whole entire 1106 01:01:03,700 --> 01:01:07,500 thing if we can, well, will be one of the will be one of those 1107 01:01:07,500 --> 01:01:09,900 top sponsors. Like Justin said, was this year. 1108 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:13,700 Yeah, I'll be at the sponsor, the sponsor stage the entire 1109 01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:17,100 conference anyway. Hey, I haven't said this in a 1110 01:01:17,107 --> 01:01:22,300 while, you know, fucking like subscribe leave a review because 1111 01:01:22,300 --> 01:01:26,300 without it cast, coin fails and if cast coin fails, the future 1112 01:01:26,300 --> 01:01:28,400 fails, be future proof.